Produced By - From a Failed Tech Startup to Viral Content Creation with AI | #63: Charlie Hills

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello Charlie, thank you for Jane Austen today and welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Thomas. I'm looking forward to being here. So Charlie, can you please introduce yourself?

Starting point is 00:00:29 Sure, I'm Charlie Hills. You might have seen me on LinkedIn maybe, but I'm a marketer with a bit of a passion for AI and content creation. Yep, so always like to start with a bit of your background. So can you tell us where do you come from? Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I'm from Rainy UK, Brighton, specifically, the seaside. But now I reside in London. I mean, rainy UK, but Brighton, it's one of the most beautiful or, you know, a beach place.

Starting point is 00:01:01 so it's actually a nice place, isn't it? I mean, I guess you take for granted what you have, but it's the fact it's like a pebbly beach, I just don't like it. Like, if we had sand, it'd be... Oh, yeah, that is true. But still, given it's in the UK, it's great, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I know. Obviously, the UK is the place to be.

Starting point is 00:01:24 Or, I mean, of course, you see it differently since you've been living there than someone who's been there just a few times. Of course. Yes, there's always a different side of the coin, isn't it? So from Brighton, why did you move to London? Was it because of work or career? Yeah, so I've always wanted to move to London just since I was, I think, like 16, 18. I'm kind of, it's the place to be.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Like, the fact that London is the UK, it feels, you know, like this is where everything happens, business. Yeah, absolutely everything. So it was a no brainer for me. I moved to London because I launched a food tech startup. Oh. Yeah, it was quite an experience. So myself and my business partner, we were, we launched the business when we were back

Starting point is 00:02:14 home in Ken and Sussex, just living with parents. And then ultimately, we had to move to London just to like, you know, get new clients on board. It was just for business opportunities. And we moved to London. and we found that it was extremely expensive. Surprise. What a surprise here.

Starting point is 00:02:37 And so the issue was that we had so many overheads with the business and also our personal maintenance costs. And it kind of like we're doing freelancing on the side for a few clients here and there. But it wasn't enough to keep food like food on the plate. So we had to. basically closed down the business, unfortunately. Shortly after moving to London, it was like six months in. So, I mean, that's kind of the long answer of why I moved to London is, because, yeah, more opportunities and it was better for our business.

Starting point is 00:03:12 Yeah. At the time, just for business development. Yeah, completely understand. And what did you actually study? Were you always interested in business marketing? I would say AI, but I guess back then there wasn't as much AI. Well, yeah, I mean, I actually wrote my business marketing. actually wrote my thesis at university on the impact of AI in on customer loyalty in the

Starting point is 00:03:34 retail industry and this was in 2020 so it was pre-chat GPT and all of that AI wave so I was very much attuned and interested in AI way before well not way before a year before all that chat chatt-GBT came out but then at university yes I've always been interested in business specifically marketing I'm quite a creative individual let's say so Within business, you know, I don't like the boring accounting, finance, blah, blah, blah. You know, I'm here for the visuals. And, yeah, like, that's what I studied at university, marketing and management. And, you know, since your church EBT and all of that has come out, you know, I've blended the two.

Starting point is 00:04:18 So you're perfect mix? Yes, no, honestly, I love it. And did you actually study in Brighton or in London? Although I'm not sure there are universities in Brighton. There are, yeah, there's two actually. And I went to the University of Sussex. So, yeah, I'm from Bryson, but I also went to university just down the road. But I didn't live with my parents.

Starting point is 00:04:40 I did have some university experience, let's say. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So how was actually the thesis that you did on the AI in the end? In the end, yeah, I mean, it was good. You know, I got a good mark on it. That's the main thing. But also, yeah, it was really interesting just to like, you know, when I'm doing my literature review, it was very interesting to, you know, find out about AI from the going back to the 1950s when the term was first coined. And like the whole history of AI that was, you know, very interesting to start with.

Starting point is 00:05:13 And then actually conducting the research itself, it was, you know, I believe that the final verdict that, you know, I discovered was that AI had a greater impact on customer loyalty in. low involvement retail environment. So that's like supermarkets, you know, like clothing retailers rather than. Yeah. I'm really test myself here. But it's like ultimately, that's what I found. I found yeah, AI had a greater impact in low, involvement retail retailers. And what is it actually that made you interested in AI that early?

Starting point is 00:05:49 Because for example, I can understand that now it's booming. So everyone kind of wants to stay up the head, you know, with what is going on. But back then, was it maybe interesting, I don't know, robots or artificial intelligence or what was it? God, I'm actually not sure, you know, like I don't know what the calling was. It's just magic, you know. It was something. And also, yeah, this is the reason. It's because, you know, like my whole, not my whole life, the past like five, 10 years, I've been kind of ruin or jealous of the fact, like, people who came maybe five, ten years before me, how they could capitalize on that kind of web 2.0 wave of paid ads and, like, social media

Starting point is 00:06:36 all just coming into existence. And it was very easy for them. And that's how I feel about this new wave of AI. I'm like, hang on a minute. Like, this is very early stages. So, hey, let me jump on that bandwagon and capitalize here. So maybe it's for, I'm not. I'm not. I'm going to be able to, I'm And maybe it's for selfish reason. It just makes some sense to me. You know, like if something's trending, jump on it. No, I would say from my perspective, like what you just mentioned, I feel like that I'm rather in a position what you said

Starting point is 00:07:08 and you are the person who is ahead. Because as you said, that you've been into it before, this boom. It means that, you know, you've got more background, better knowledge, you know much more. Whereas these days, you can see AI everywhere. but it's because it's booming because it's everywhere. It's kind of unavoidable. So I was just about to say that it seems to me like that you've got a wrong perception.

Starting point is 00:07:32 I would say that you underestimate yourself. Oh, really? Yeah, I actually do. I feel that. And people always tell me that too. And I'm only slowly realizing. It's like a formal, you know, fear of missing out. That it's everywhere.

Starting point is 00:07:46 But it seems like that you are ahead because you've been into it much earlier. then I'm pretty sure that a lot of people right now. Yeah, no, definitely. And also, like, I was employed for the past, like, year or two. And I wasn't posting to LinkedIn, et cetera, from 2021. I only started posting to LinkedIn this year. And had I started maybe a year or a bit earlier, you know, I would be like, way ahead, man.

Starting point is 00:08:16 Yeah, yeah. So then after your university, is it when you started? started the startup with your partner or what were your steps after the unit? Yeah, so literally like we were writing our thesis and then we were like writing the business plan on the side and yeah, probably for our own detriment for our final marks but it was all good. Yeah, we we had this idea. We saw virtual brands were coming out of like we saw Mr. Beast, big YouTube influencer was doing it. We were seeing many many new entrants into the market and we're like, hey, there's opportunity here within food tech. And both are, well,

Starting point is 00:08:56 my partner's experience is very hospitality. He's got a hospitality background, whereas I'm the marketer here. So like, for lending our two respective expertise, we decided to launch KitchenX, which was our FUtec startup, which we essentially were operating a franchise model whereby we created these virtual brands, which were for delivery only, so you can't actually dine in and eat them. You can only get them on delivery just eat and Uber Eats. And we created these brands. We created all the IP, the packaging, the menus, the ingredients, that SKUs, etc.

Starting point is 00:09:34 And then we licensed these brands to kitchen operators across the UK, hoteliers, takeaway restaurant owners. and all we took was a small commission of their sales. So it was a really smart idea. But then there was many, many lessons learned by entering the market without, you know, viable proof that this is going to be a profitable business. Because we found, as we scaled, we got to like 30-odd partners, which was really impressive. It's like that we got to that size. But ultimately, we were making nothing.

Starting point is 00:10:12 honestly like taking into the business costs and also our maintenance costs it was just it was wasn't worth our time on top of the customer service and because we had partners messaging was like all hours of the day and it was like yeah I can't really nightmare but we called it quit so you know brave and impressive straight after you need to start your own startup no for sure like I'm so glad I did it that way around because you know many people you know with a marketing that you'd get maybe a marketing assistant role, marketing, executive role. But I kind of bypassed those stages of my career. And just so when I went into full-time employment,

Starting point is 00:10:51 I instantly went into a marketing manager position rather than kind of going through that junior. Yeah. And is that something that you've been planning while finishing uni, that you will start up with your partner, that it will be your career? Yeah, and honestly, like, we thought that this was going to make us million this was going to be for the rest of our lives basically.

Starting point is 00:11:13 Okay. Because just wondering that that is something that people, or at least from my university experience, that people don't really have plans or don't know what they are going to do once they finish, you know, because it's usually, once I finish, then I will start thinking about it, start sending applications. So just curious if it was kind of spontaneous or if you've been planning it. Yeah, for sure. So I actually have to get credit to my partner.

Starting point is 00:11:38 He was the one that came up with the idea. And he was thinking about it for a long time before. If it was down to me, I probably would just be like, let me just focus on my studies. And then literally what you just said, do it afterwards. But I think just like testing the waters and just, you know, slowly, slowly each day, just doing like maybe five minutes, 10 minutes on it. Yeah. It's rating.

Starting point is 00:11:58 Like that's essentially what we were doing in the background. Yeah. And what are some lessons that you learned from this startup? experience. Yeah, like I said earlier, make sure you've got a viable market offering for going to market. Do the market research

Starting point is 00:12:20 and yeah, we understand what the processes are going to look like and how much time that's going to take and also when hiring people, make sure because we made a few hires and they actually took more time away from us and they actually

Starting point is 00:12:36 contributed to the business. So those first hires have to be time savers rather than time drainers let's say they have to because you know like in hindsight we should have got some very i mean we don't have the budget but we should got more senior people on board because then they would have just helped us go faster whereas we thought we could get more juniors and it was just no don't do that lesson to learn the hard way yeah definitely so after this experience what were your next because I would maybe expect to try another startup or another venture. So was it like that or did you actually look for a traditional career or what we're about to do?

Starting point is 00:13:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, as I mentioned earlier, I was freelancing on the side whilst running the business. It was okay. It wasn't really giving, it wasn't providing the revenue that I needed to live in London. London. It's, yeah, as I mentioned, it's so expensive. So we're kind of forced to close down the business. It felt like the right time. It'd been two years of running it and we hadn't really broken to a level of revenue or scalability that we wanted. So close it down and we had to find alternative work, which was, you know, like I didn't really have a choice and that was okay. I would have loved to start a new business, but, you know, like, it's not just like to have to.

Starting point is 00:14:06 Yeah, of course. Like, what would it have been? You know, like, exactly. So I found work. And it's funny because I then got a job for a group of restaurants here in London. And I got a job. And then they needed someone else. So I also got my business partner hired as well.

Starting point is 00:14:25 So we were working for this company for virtually a year. Together post us closing down the business. So it was quite a unique situation, the fact that, you know, we co-founded this business together and we went into full-time employment together. And that was a B2C role. So I'd move from B2B and then into B2C within restaurant marketing, which was quite an experience. Honestly, I don't like B2C.

Starting point is 00:14:52 I'm a B2B guy throwing through now. I can say that. But it was a good experience for me to see B2C in its fullest and be like, I don't want to do that. It's good to find out, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You have to do everything once so then you don't know, so then you know what you don't want like. But I mean, it was great. Honestly, I think that's partly helping with the social media marketing, just like doing all those Instagram rails. And it was actually just me and my business partner who were the marketing team there.

Starting point is 00:15:24 So it was very much a startup mentality still, even when we're employed. Yeah. And I guess a good situation when you knew each other, how you two guys, work and then working together again so you already have a relationship so I just it helped yeah it helps and also you know when you've got when you're no longer your own bosses anymore then it can also you know not help yeah so working there was it something that you didn't enjoy so you wanted to try something else or why did you you know live from there then yeah it just wasn't really a fit to be honest, I think the expectations around, like the boss essentially thought that we could double

Starting point is 00:16:09 company revenue in the, given the economic circumstances we're going through with the, especially hospitality, you know, like the wages are increasing, ingredient costs of going up, you know, it just wasn't a, it was a nonsensical business target. So, you know, this guy thought they was going to bring us on board and we're going to double the company revenue. It was like, come on, let's be, let's set smart goals here. And, you know, we definitely contributed revenue growth, but it wasn't the two, it wasn't the doubling like it was expected. So I think, you know, it just, it kind of ended a bit sourly. But it was okay.

Starting point is 00:16:46 It was that, you know, I then moved on to my current role, which I'm back in B2B and I'm much happier than I was there. Yeah. And looking back, do you think that it was actually nonsense, his goal to double it? Or was it because maybe you could do something differently or do more work? Yeah, I mean, I think obviously, like, you know, when you hire two young founders and bring them into your business, you think they're going to be like rocket fuel to like. Full of energy, need to squeeze them out properly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:17:23 It was, it was nuts. Like, I even remember being told that we can manage our own hours, how we like, which was, you know, great. It's like, wow, we've just come from a self-employed background. So that's perfect for me. But then, you know, you risk also the expectation to work longer than your hours. You know, like it was just like red flags. It looks too good to be true. Yes, it was very much so. Agreed. So after that, was it something that based on this experience, you wanted to work for yourself again? or why did you decide for your current journey after that experience? Sure.

Starting point is 00:18:05 So, yeah, I wanted to get back into B2B, so I decided to get back on the job market, and I found my current role at Vamese, which is a travel app, and we provide software to travel companies. Oh, wow. That's the job you do now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is the current role I'm in. It's a SaaS company, which is great, and B2B.

Starting point is 00:18:28 you know, those were two big ticks for me. And I've been doing that since August of last year, so coming up to a year now. Can you share how did you find the job? LinkedIn, of course. I mean, it makes sense, yeah. So when you found it on LinkedIn, did you already have a LinkedIn present there,

Starting point is 00:18:47 or did you, you know, just go there as one of the ways, basically how to look for the job, or, you know, why LinkedIn? So, yeah, I found, the previous job I was talking about through Indeed. And after that, I was like, I'm never going back to Indeed. That is just not the job platform for me, to be honest. I'm not a big fan of it, too. No, yeah, I mean, I think it's great if you're maybe looking for part-time work,

Starting point is 00:19:15 but if you really want, like, professional work, then don't bother. Yeah, and just as a side note, I feel like when you look at Indeed, it, nothing against indeed, but just maybe my opinion. But it feels like the profile doesn't really tell you much about the company. Whereas if you see it on LinkedIn, you can literally, you know, click, click it and check the company in there, which gives you a better idea or better impression of the company. What is it like? Maybe it was just my impression, but that's what I felt like.

Starting point is 00:19:49 I 100% agree, yeah, of course, you actually have a company profile that you can see on LinkedIn, as well as a company. website is like double social proof there yeah definitely so um yeah that after that experience i decided to look for work on linkedin instead and yeah like you're saying i i found it way better for it and yeah i didn't really have a presence on lincoln at that time um i just was a regular lurker like the majority of people did you see it only as kind of online CV yeah sort of i mean i did a post or two here, like, you know, like, I did a post around a half marathon I ran or a new job I got. Also, the one about me quitting my previous job. So, like, I'd done a few posts, but it was negligible.

Starting point is 00:20:39 So what was the point when you kind of decided or find out that LinkedIn, that there is a potential that you're going to focus on this platform? Yeah, good question. I mean, I'm not sure when I realized it exactly. but when I got when I started working at my new role you know we're B2B so you know I'm way more active on LinkedIn than I was for the previous role because that was B2C so I was more on Instagram and TikTok and then I went back to B2B I was back on LinkedIn I was like oh hang on a minute there's a lot of people talking about AI on here interesting and so that was like in the

Starting point is 00:21:20 back of my mind kind of getting the cogs wearing or turning let's say and And it was interesting because obviously I was seeing so many AI tools on LinkedIn, which I was super interested by because I do have an interest in AI. And I was bringing them to my manager. I was like, hey, look at this new AI tool. And by the end of it, I think she just lost interest in the amount I was sharing. Because she's got her day job to focus on. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:52 Can't have the brain space to think about this AI tool. tool and that. So the fact I was kind of overwhelming her with AI tools, I then had the idea to start my own newsletter on LinkedIn. Yeah. Actually on LinkedIn itself, rather than on beehive or subset. Yeah. Yeah. And it started out of pure passion back in October of last year. So it was a few months after starting my new job. And it was just, yeah, it was called Martec Weekly. and it was just a roundup of all the latest marketing news that had come out that week. And it was just, yeah, purely passion project. I'd get like one, two likes on my early posts.

Starting point is 00:22:36 Yeah. And just I'm curious briefly with your current job. Is it also taking care of the social media and the marketing in general? Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, I do look after marketing. It's more email marketing and social media, yeah. So focused on LinkedIn as a key platform. But it's interesting because we were leveraging LinkedIn on our company page very early on in my time.

Starting point is 00:23:05 And then we've slowly but surely also moved to the social selling creator approach as of this year. So yeah, yeah. I mean, I do do something else. Oh, yeah, I do quite a lot of graphic design as well. Okay. And you said it's some travel app. Yeah, for B2B. So we provide the tech to tour operators, travel agents, globally, so we're not B2C.

Starting point is 00:23:29 Okay, yeah. I was just curious. Sounds cool. And coming back to your newsletter, weren't you thinking, actually, about running a newsletter on one of the platforms, such as you said, Beehive, ConvertKit or something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I guess it was just a lower barrier to entry with LinkedIn. I actually don't know why I started on LinkedIn. I guess because obviously you have traffic

Starting point is 00:23:54 who are like your network who are going to see your newsletter versus if you start in covert kit or five or something then you've got to work really hard to get that traffic to subscribe. If you want to boost your online presents check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed.

Starting point is 00:24:13 You can also in a skill share course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. And you said before that you were getting just a few likes.

Starting point is 00:24:36 So what's the situation like now? There is several hundreds. Oh yeah, hundreds. Yeah, easy. Oh, wow. Sorry. Yeah. So can you introduce a newsletter a bit more?

Starting point is 00:24:48 Like when you send it, you said it's about the kind of roundup of AI, but maybe the process is how you write it. Yeah, sure. So it's actually around your marketing and AI. That's why I started off as marketing technology on a weekly basis. And essentially what it is. So, I mean, it started off as just a general kind of, I'm not even sure. It just didn't have a format. It was just me dumping all the latest stories on there to get like one.

Starting point is 00:25:18 one who likes as expected. But, you know, I kept going. I kept persevering. I kept, because it was purely our passion. I wasn't thinking about the business opportunities or the potential personal brand growth that might be associated with it later down the line. But, yeah, it was just purely passionate.

Starting point is 00:25:39 Week in, week out, I got better. You know, my covers improved. The structure got better. And now I'm at a point when I've got, even very early on. I've got a very clear structure. It's got a title, the URL, the publisher, an overview, very succinct overview, like one, two sentences. Three key points, just very, you know, that's it.

Starting point is 00:26:02 Three in three key points in a sentence or two, and then a marketers POV, which is kind of the USP of my newsletter versus the sea of other newsletters out there, is that it offers a unique marketer's perspective on their latest AI development. And what's the length? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not too long to honest. It's usually like it always says on LinkedIn around five minute read now. So, and I probably cover around like five, ten stories weekly maximum. Yes. So that's something I've always wondered about, but there are lots of news.

Starting point is 00:26:40 How do you pick what's worth sharing? Is it what's the most interesting to you? or do you feel like the audience would enjoy the most? Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, I mean, that, the fact you mentioned that is, it's just come to mind that part of the reason why I started the newsletter as well is because there's so much marketing AI news to stay on top of. It was purely as well so that I could stay on top of it.

Starting point is 00:27:06 Yeah, kind of for CCU. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly, I have to be on top of the latest news. Otherwise, the newsletter doesn't get published. And so a lot of it comes from LinkedIn, to be honest. I'm just on LinkedIn every day, every hour, always scrolling. And I just see what's happening with the latest, whether it's, you know, chat, GPD or Google or, you know, more niche players out there, smaller players.

Starting point is 00:27:34 But then obviously there is a bit of Google searching. Maybe I've only got three articles to cover for a week. Then I'm going to have to do some additional source finding using the light of complexity or just regular old Google. Yeah. What are some curators or even newsletters that you subscribe to or that you follow for, you know, inside from whether it comes to the world of AI or world of marketing? Yeah, yeah, good question.

Starting point is 00:28:03 So AI Tool Report is a good one. TLDR, morning brew. I'd say Mindstream 2. I will need to do research after this. I don't know of what I would have. Well, I mean, that's how I kind of started with these newsletters. Like, that's a very good point as well, is that I'm subscribed to them all and I'd just be at work or just, you know, receiving them. I'm like, oh, like, that's a good one to include in my newsletter.

Starting point is 00:28:33 So, like, not. Let's get inspired. Yes, inspiration. And are there any specific creators or people from the scene? Oh, God. All right. Well, I mean, I could be here all day. But I definitely say Audrey Chaya, she was one of the very early creators who inspired me,

Starting point is 00:28:51 as well as the likes of Luke Matthews, a bigger creator. And there's so many. Like I could go all day, but Andrew Bollis, my friend, Noam and Ruben Hasid as well, like those guys too. Yeah, I imagine it would be a long list. Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly, I can name Anna York, Annie York. That is one that I must mention. she, AI, SEO, queen, the one to follow for sure. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:18 And this was about the newsletter, but when it comes to your own content strategy, you as a creator on LinkedIn, can you tell us more about, you know, about your post, your strategy and basically how you run your own personal profile? Yeah, good question. And this is exactly what I do, you know, AI powered content strategy. So how I've run my profile has been a big, iteration you know when I started back in October I was like a regular person using LinkedIn I wasn't this like creator who's with the who's following well yeah I mean

Starting point is 00:29:56 I'm only at 12k for now but let's see what next year holds yeah so I started of using the regular LinkedIn scheduling solution you know I was posting to LinkedIn maybe like once maybe twice a week from October to January very regularly I was just resharing like AI news about like Hickle or runway being like, oh, this looks cool. And yeah, I was getting zero traction. Nothing at all really. And then over the Christmas period, whilst everyone was, you know, singing Merry Christmas. Over anything.

Starting point is 00:30:32 Yeah. I mean, I was doing that too. But I mean, also whilst doing that, I was like, I remember well, like on Christmas Day, I was there, you know, strategising, planning my LinkedIn for. the new year. And that was a key turning point for me is that Christmas period I took a week or so to think about like my profile banner. Think about my headline. Think about content

Starting point is 00:30:53 strategy that I was posting. And it was actually like a thought out strategy. I defined my content matrix, you know, my posting schedule, all of that. Whereas before it was just just no thought into it. It was just random and sporadic.

Starting point is 00:31:11 So that was the big turning point. For me, I started using a content schedule on Notion. So I'd save all my, not save the actual post, but just have a placeholder. So I know what I'm posting on what day. Yeah. So because with the native LinkedIn scheduling solution, it's so bad. You don't know, like you don't really have an overview of the calendar.

Starting point is 00:31:34 I don't feel like it either much. And it's like if you schedule something, you cannot edit it unless, unless it's posted already. it doesn't make sense yeah exactly i hate it um and yeah because like if you want to re-upload the document it's such a headache so i then moved over to notion and authored up and that was my like scheduling solution if authored up i'd um well i mean i wouldn't recommend them anymore but i used to highly recommend them because you can just save the drafts yeah and then you can edit them quite easily so i found that really helped me with my linkedin scheduling process

Starting point is 00:32:12 Also, a key thing for me, which I realized over the Christmas period, was engaging with others, was something that I was missing from October to Christmas, basically. I was just posting and running. And the key difference for me, for me was when I started to, because I started speaking with people from all over the world on LinkedIn, over the Christmas period. It was like, how do you do it? Like, what am I missing here? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:37 And they were like, oh, you need to engage with people. like you need to have more storytelling in your about section so like yeah i i simply just asked and people told me and showed me the way which was like yeah that's me before um yeah the exponential growth and it sounds like a perfect famine since you had this kind of change her update during christmas then you started big in the new year so it's you know entering the storm strunk into the new year yeah yeah exactly that like it was not my mission. I was like, I'm going to post LinkedIn. And I remember my targets was so, like I smashed my targets. I remember I set for Q1, which was another thing which I didn't have

Starting point is 00:33:22 previously. I didn't set myself on targets or goals. So what was I striving for? And I remember I said, I think I started, I had like 2,000 followers. So I had a good base to start with. And I said myself I'm going to hit 3,000 followers by the end of Q1. And I think I smashed it by like 1,000, 2,000 followers on like 4K, 5K by the end of Q1. Yeah, nice. And actually how frequently do you post per week? It was like three times a week back then. And just slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, crept up, crept up.

Starting point is 00:33:58 So what is it like now? Oh, yeah, it's every day. Then can you tell a bit more about the process how actually you create? content because of course it's not that easy to create quality content that you can share so frequently yeah yeah for sure I mean so I think I have a bit of an advantage with the fact that I know Adobe and I learned that on my placement year at university I was a marketing and design assistant for a whole year just on Adobe Photoshop illustrator in design just you know designing designing so when Canva became popular

Starting point is 00:34:35 and a thing. I was like, this is, this is so easy. What the hell? You know, that has definitely helped me when it comes to concentration because all I use is Canber. I don't really bother with Adobe anymore. Oh, I was actually about to ask you about Canber. I was expecting that you would be Adobe person hating Canva, but so I'm surprised at you know, like this year. No, I mean, I'm all for making, yeah, our workflows in life easier. So, I don't know why people, apart from maybe their advanced features, like, if you're really technical, then I'm because I'm just making like nice cheat sheets and carousels. That's it. I'm not doing like any advanced stuff really.

Starting point is 00:35:18 And that's half the battle is the graphic design, I think. Like if you have that in your toolkit, then you'll fly easily. Obviously then, you know, I've been leveraging Chad GBT from the start and going back to the newsletter maybe. like I had a custom GPD for my weekly newsletter on LinkedIn, which I was using every week. Once I got past that, kind of the manual process of writing it and I had a clear structure. I was like, hey, let me build a custom GPT. They've just come out. It probably makes sense that I used them.

Starting point is 00:35:49 And that was fine. Like it worked for a few weeks. But then GPT's degrade over time. And I didn't update it. And by the end of it, it became more hassle for me to use it. then like to write the newsletter. Yes. It was like, it was taking me more time to write with the GPT than not.

Starting point is 00:36:08 So I was like, hang on a minute. There's a problem. I need to, I need to solve this. And what happened was that I then developed, more complexity also became more relevant and prominent in, in the industry. I was like, hey, this looks like a pretty cool bit of kit to write newsletters with potentially.

Starting point is 00:36:26 So I took all my learnings from the previous editions of my newsletter and all the instructions are put into the custom GBT and develop this megapromps, which is just put into perplexity, and it writes the entire newsletter for me, very fast, and honestly it saved 80% of my writing time. So would you recommend, I tried perplexity a bit,

Starting point is 00:36:50 but I still use chat GPT, but would you then recommend maybe trying perplexity in case it may be better than chat GPT? Oh, yeah. Oh, God, yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, I think there's, I mean, it's obviously there's unique benefits to both. But, I mean, I find myself using perplexity more and more. I think, yeah, because you can also generate images with Dali playground and stable diffusion in perplexity too.

Starting point is 00:37:17 So most people think it's just limited to being like an AI search engine, but you can generate images. Yeah, you can do so much. And the copy is actually, um, one is going to be factually the most accurate because it's, it's an AI search engine. Yeah. It actually, versus like chatybt searching through Bing search, which I just don't trust. Bing's fine, but it's, yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:40 And what about trying Gemini or Klot or some other things? Yeah, I've been a big fan of Gemini since it came out, a really big fan, but in the past few weeks, I've fallen out with it, and I actually cancelled my Gemini subscription a day or two ago. and I'm back on GPT 4-0, surprisingly. Because it is really good, but I find Gemini is better at writing human-sounding copy. It's just got a certain workiness to it, which chat-GPT can't match.

Starting point is 00:38:12 It always says, like, fascinating, let's delve into this. Those disgusting chat-GPT words that I dislike so much, whereas Gemini is good for that. It's good to hear. It makes me also kind of everything. think how I use it and explore other tools. And speaking of tools, are there some other, you know,

Starting point is 00:38:34 tools or software or something that helps you to make your life easier and basically be more productive? Yeah, definitely. So Veeds, a big one for me of late. It's really great for editing videos fast. There's tons of other tools out there like the script or in video

Starting point is 00:38:51 that you use. But I prefer VIDS. I mean, Is it the VIT's iol? Isn't it? Yeah, VD.I.O. It's all capitalized the letters. And it's got some great AI features that cleans the audio.

Starting point is 00:39:06 It removes ums and ours. And I find that I literally just record a video. It'll take like five minutes, ten minutes to record the video. Put it into Veed and then it will cut it all for me. It might not be perfect. But then I can just go over it and just like fine tune it. And it'll probably only take like 20 minutes, 30 minutes to make a video now. Yep.

Starting point is 00:39:25 And any other tools? Yeah, there are more. Are there some secret ones that you don't want to reveal? The secret ones. So I've got Gemini, then I've got complexity. Those are the ones that I'm using day in, day out. But, sorry, one other tool that's just come to mind is SuperGrow, which I've been using a lot recently.

Starting point is 00:39:48 It's basically an all-in-one LinkedIn growth tool, which you can do scheduling, engagements. and also you can create carousels and write copy in there too. So it literally does everything in one. And so I mentioned Notion and author earlier. I used to use those as kind of two separate tools for one, having an overview of the schedule and then saving drafts. But now I just use SuperGrow for absolutely everything.

Starting point is 00:40:11 It's been a game change to me. That sounds great. I will later check it out. And speaking of social media, are you present on other channels than Just LinkedIn? Just LinkedIn for now. I honestly, like on top of my full-time job, but I don't even have the time to really manage LinkedIn. So the other ones are coming very soon. I mean, I say very soon, probably not until like next year.

Starting point is 00:40:34 But yeah. And what are then the channel that you plan to use? Yeah, so it's definitely going to be. Twitter agents, right? Yeah, X does come to mind. But then I'm also thinking YouTube and TikTok, obviously video being a growing force. Yeah, that was actually my next question, how you manage to take care of everything. It sounds like you've got a lot on your plate, but still productive, still doing well.

Starting point is 00:41:03 How do you do that? Thank you. Honestly, it's lack of sleep and just your determination, I think. Because yeah, I wake up at like 5, 6 a.m., I'll then, you know, schedule my post. I might like work on some content in the morning and then I do some like, a lot of engagement work on the platform in my feed and then you know i'm straight to work and then you know like at lunch i'm doing some more work and it's it's honestly like i'm i'm getting increasingly stretched um as i grow but i actually don't know how i'm managing luckily um my partner's

Starting point is 00:41:42 talks to me they're quite helpful with um you know cooking cleaning things like that so then i don't have to worry as as much about it so that also helps having a supported that. And it sounds you still enjoy it, right? Which is definitely something that helps. Yeah, of course. Like, it's, this is all our passion. Honestly, I just love creating content and the fact that I can blend it with AI to make

Starting point is 00:42:06 content, well, first content about AI and also use AI to help me make my content faster. It's just like, until it stops becoming a passion for me, then I'll stop. Like, you won't see me post anymore. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, uh, what are actually? your plans for the future. Of course, planning to grow and probably learning and improving, but have you got any specific goals? Good question. I mean, I've always wanted to run my own

Starting point is 00:42:34 marketing agency. That is kind of the goal and to be a digital nomad. So I'm trying to merge the two there. Hopefully, you know, in a few years time, I'll be running my own marketing agency in Bali on a sun lounger, just soaking on sun. I was about to ask you, where would you as a digital nomad where would you like to be and in Indonesia came to my mind so is it actually the one i mean bard is the textbook answer um if i actually think about it then i'm not sure i mean there's tons of emerging um asian economies which really appeal to me but also you know the likes of france also too um so um so it's definitely appealing i mean europe isn't off the card so also South America like I hear so much about those those countries there they sound like a vibe so

Starting point is 00:43:27 who knows to be honest Thomas I actually don't know yeah so what do you do actually in your free time what help I mean if you have free time is there you have hobbies outside of this that help you kind of I don't know balance your life or stay safe good question so I mean I used to run and gym way more. You mentioned health marathon before, right? Yes, and I was actually signed up to the Brighton marathon this year about my my knees weren't playing so nice. So yeah, I do like to run and go to the gym.

Starting point is 00:44:02 But since in the past few months, I've just stopped, which is probably the dark side of LinkedIn growth. It's like, hey, people, make sure to prioritize your health too. Because that's something I'm not doing. And I think I feel like it's kind of like a short-term sacrifice for a long time gain because, you know, you know, the day that I go 100% freelance and into LinkedIn, then I know that I can prioritise my health again. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:28 But for now, it's like on top of the full-time job and the LinkedIn growth, there's not enough hours in a day. Yeah, of course. Besides that, you know, I'm always on duolingo too, like when I'm not working. Oh, nice. I don't know. I'm just learning French from there. So I'm also trying to see a bit of London.

Starting point is 00:44:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I pay so much to be. Hey, you may as well try and maximize the sites. And out of curiosity, why are you learning French? So my partner, he's French. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:44:58 Okay. That's cool. Well, I mean, like, first generation British, but then we're French heritage. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we just want to move to France. One day, I think. Okay.

Starting point is 00:45:09 Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, so French was the only GCCC. I failed. Funny enough. Oh, failed. I got, yeah, I felt it. Like, I got a big old D in there.

Starting point is 00:45:21 And so it's funny, because I remember how much of a headache French was for me in, at school. I detested the language. And then it's funny, I think to me with my partner, I've, like, started learning it, and I've been learning for like five years. And I still can't really speak it, so. No, you said some great phrases before. It's something that, you know, professional. And I think it's a good.

Starting point is 00:45:45 perfect timing because now there is going to be Olympics. So maybe it's like a motivation to learn it or it actually gives you some, okay, this is the reason why I learned it. Now I will understand maybe better or something. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it would be nice just to like, I mean, and I do find it helpful,

Starting point is 00:46:03 even when I connect with creators on LinkedIn, who are like, maybe French or they're like, bonjour, like in the DM. And I just, it's just a useful, like, icebreaker as well. to have. But the issue being French people just love to, one, they're very good at speaking English and two, they think that we don't really speak a language very well. So whenever I try to speak French, they'll just be like, no, no, it's fine, let's speak English.

Starting point is 00:46:31 And with your interest in AI, I would be curious, are there any maybe your favorite films or TV series or books? Good question. Whether something that you enjoy or something that may be influenced you? Actually, I'm not really a film guide. Like, I go a guy, yeah, I don't watch many films, to be honest. And what about books? Not even reading. Yeah, I do read, but they're more like self-help books.

Starting point is 00:47:07 Like, at the minute, yeah, it's actually all self-help. I don't really read about it. Oh, okay, okay. Then. I'm always on like continuous improvement. Then share some favorite Some of our books Okay

Starting point is 00:47:19 I like the lean startup Which I read during the time When I was launching my business Also like I've forgotten the name of it My memory is so bad It was something about Negotiations

Starting point is 00:47:32 That is just not very helpful Is it From Chris Chris was I guess Split the difference Yes I've read my mind Nice

Starting point is 00:47:41 It's quite well-known book Yeah, I love that book. That was probably one of my favorite books in, in recent years. And I've also been reading a lot more about like organizational behavior. Recently, because my boss, she's great with book recommendations. So we've seen read one called it Culture Code and Essentialism, Radical Canada. I'm reading at the minute. Like, these are kind of what I'm focusing on at the moment. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:08 But no, like no AI films or books, sadly. I was expecting maybe something like, I don't know, I am a robot or... Well, yeah, obviously that film was cool. Yeah, I mean, Iron Legend stands up to me. Yeah, yeah. Although it's really legendary. It's not with robots, is it? It's with zombies.

Starting point is 00:48:31 But still a good one, yeah. And then to kind of slowly wrap it up, can you share some final tips and tricks on how? to start and stand out on LinkedIn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, God. So prepare yourself. It's not easy. Don't think that just posting is going to make you grow fast on LinkedIn.

Starting point is 00:48:57 There's a whole ballgame to it. Like there's the engagements, like I mentioned, like if you're posting and not engaging with other people, then your posts will not get the attention they deserve. To yours, you have to be, you know, like, I could talk about the content creation, side of things, but you also need to rethink about like your niche and exactly what you're addressing because I'm marketing and AI, but yeah, I see people go like even then I feel too

Starting point is 00:49:23 broad in marketing. I've since niched it down to content marketing. But even then, like I still feel broad. Like within content marketing, there's SEO, there's graphic design. Like there's so much more that I could niche down further. Yeah. See like Anna York who's AI SEO. Like the more, like, the more niche that you can go with it, the better the outcome would be. And I think that's a rule for life and business generally. It's maybe the question, if you were starting again, is there something that you would do differently than before? God, I've honestly thought about starting again. I was like, I wouldn't go through it all again, like, just thinking about everything I've just don't do it, guys. What would I do different? Honestly, I have no, I have no regrets whatsoever.

Starting point is 00:50:09 I've no, like, nothing I changed. Like, I just love the place I'm in and where I'm heading. And I can't, yeah, honestly. I mean, engage earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that's the only thing I'll say, it's just engaged with others earlier,

Starting point is 00:50:22 which I was missing on from October to January. Like, had I been showing the community more love, then I think that I found more traction sooner. So then to finish it up, is there something that I haven't asked you and maybe you would like to share or some kind of question that, you know, or message that you want to put out there? Yeah, follow Charlie Hills on LinkedIn, first of all.

Starting point is 00:50:50 Sorry, I mean, I said it joking, but I mean, it's... No, of course, you can promote yourself. Where can people follow you? Where can, where they can find you? Yeah, for sure. I mean, at the minute, I'm just on LinkedIn, as we mentioned, but also check out my newsletter on sub-sac. There's a link on my profile.

Starting point is 00:51:11 That's where I share all the juicy megapromps and behind the scenes there that you won't see on my LinkedIn feed. But yeah, besides that, I don't really have any promotionals at the minute. That's it for sure. But at least we don't get overwhelmed where to go. We know specifically where to go and we'll find you there. That's it.

Starting point is 00:51:34 LinkedIn, like that's where I'm living at the minute. That's my second home. Yeah, cool. I think then we can slowly finish it up, Charlie. Thank you so much for joining. It was pleasure to meet you. I feel like I know you already, although only from LinkedIn, so it was a pleasure to finally meet, not life in person, but at least virtually. Thank you, Thomas. Honestly, it's been a pleasure being here, and thank you for the authentic, like, the authentic chat,

Starting point is 00:52:00 because it's not saying you always see from So I really love the angle and what you're doing here on the podcast. So thank you again. Thank you. I appreciate it and we'll keep following you. And wish you good luck, of course. Thanks, man. You too.

Starting point is 00:52:17 Thank you for listening. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - From a Failed Tech Startup to Viral Content Creation with AI | #63: Charlie Hills

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