Produced By - From Backpacker to Blockbusters: A VFX Line Producer's Global Journey | #52: Tommy Souza

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello Tommy, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:00:22 Glad to be here. So Tommy, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, my name is Tommy Sousa. I am a line producer or a production manager. That's my current position. I live in Sydney right now, Australia. I'm originally from California. I've been moving around a lot since I was a kid.

Starting point is 00:00:40 I got into the visual effects industry about eight years ago in L.A. Started off working in pre-vis, a company called the Third Floor, and since then, kind of transferred into visual effects and worked at a number of different companies in the last few years, which has been great. I've been able to travel to a lot of different places, work on some really cool projects, meet a lot of really interesting people.

Starting point is 00:01:07 And yeah, it's led me all the way to Australia at the other end of the world. So it's been a culture. It sounds exciting, literally across the whole world. I think I've never spoken with anyone from US or California. So can you tell us more? What was it like growing up in there?

Starting point is 00:01:23 Yeah, California was great. It's actually pretty similar to here, sunny beaches. But, yeah, really laid back vibe. I lived in Northern California for a bit, in Southern California, just kind of all over the state. And it was a really good place to grow up, I think. And then, yeah, I bounced around. I lived in Alaska for a little bit. My parents were from the military, so I bounced around quite a bit.

Starting point is 00:01:48 So it was quite weather different. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I ended up moving to Montreal. kind of in the middle, beginning of my career. So I was used to the snow by then since I lived in Alaska. So it wasn't a big shock. But yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:04 And then I haven't, after I moved out of California and then to Montreal, when I was kind of getting my career going, that was it. I haven't lived in the U.S. since then. So that was about, when was that, 2018, I think, when I left the U.S.? And I don't really have any plans to go back there either. Oh, how come? You enjoy it outside or you don't miss it? I mean, my parents are there and I have a lot of family and friends, but I'm not really itching to go back.

Starting point is 00:02:36 I don't know. Just the US isn't a big draw for me anymore. I think there's so many other cooler places in the world to live. Don't get me wrong, like I love certain parts of America, but there's a lot of parts that I don't like about it either. So it's good. And what is it? What made you to start in the VFX industry or even into art in general? Yeah, I always knew I wanted to work in movies since I was little.

Starting point is 00:03:04 I just loved watching movies. I did theater in high school. I loved writing stuff, directing, you know, plays and things like that. And I think I just liked being a creative person. And then I went to studied film in college. I majored in it. I went to UC Santa Barbara near L.A., really cool school. And then after that, I went to grad school for film directing and producing.

Starting point is 00:03:28 And then I moved to L.A. where I was struggling for a bit. I had like three different jobs. I was working in restaurants. And this is after I had my master's. So I was like, why did I get these degrees if I'm working in restaurants? I was struggling a bit. I worked at this lighting company where you build lights that they put on sets. That was kind of a fun job.

Starting point is 00:03:49 Like you're soldering stuff. you're like putting wires together. It's kind of a fun job, didn't pay anything, really. And then I got an interview with a company called Stargate Studios. And they mostly do television, visual effects for television. And they do shows like Walking Dead, Ray Donovan, you know, just kind of whatever, Orville, a bunch of shows.

Starting point is 00:04:13 So I got, that was kind of my first step into the industry, is they hired me as a coordinator, kind of skipped the runner PA positions. They didn't have PAs, I don't think. I know, actually, they did. They did have PAs. But, yeah, I went straight to VFX cord and worked on a few different projects, Walking Dead, a show called, oh, God, I don't even remember now, pure something.

Starting point is 00:04:39 But just a number of different TV shows. But I always knew I wanted to work in, like, features, you know, big, big movies. Yeah. So I worked there for about. a year and then I got an offer I applied and got an offer at the third floor yeah and that was my first big movie I worked on the Ant Man and the Wasp or Ant Man and the Wasp and the Previs side of things for I worked on that for about a year and a half and that was like in the US or you moved to London by that no that was in the US yeah I was in LA for that based on what you said would you

Starting point is 00:05:16 say that it's challenging to get into the industry in the US? I would say it depends on what you're trying to do because there's so many different kinds of paths you can go. I mean, I was a PA on set in LA a lot. Like I worked on tons of little TV shows and stuff. It was cool because I would be on the sets. I'd go to like Warner Brothers or whatever Universal or CBS and go on all these lots and it was a really cool experience. because I didn't know if I wanted to be on set, you know, if I wanted to be like going to lighting or, you know, whatever camera side of things or just kind of get my foot in the door with that.

Starting point is 00:05:56 And I know it's a really hard, that's even harder, I think, than, you know, getting into maybe like post-production or VFX or, you know, whatever it is that's just, I think, a little more demanding and a little more, you don't know when your next job is because you're not really working for a company. you're basically just freelancing constantly. Like you finish one job and then you have to wait. And it is that, I would say, is more word of mouth, working on sets. It's like you work good, you get people's contacts, then they'll hit you up if they need someone to be another PA or whatever it is on another set.

Starting point is 00:06:31 So I would say, I mean, for me, I felt more, there was more stability when I got into visual effects. You're working for a company. You get a contract, you know. You get to go in the, it's just a set schedule. I know a lot of people don't like that. They like to, they don't like them, the Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever it is. I like that, though.

Starting point is 00:06:53 I like having stability. I like having a paycheck that's constantly coming. Yeah, so I did like that. But I would say, it was just, I got lucky with it, really. I kept applying to everything. And I didn't know I wanted to get in the visual effects. the guy hired me for the Stargate place, and then it just kind of snowballed into where I am today.

Starting point is 00:07:15 So I think a lot of people are like, yeah, you've got to know the right people, which is true maybe for some jobs in the industry, for sure. Like if you're working on set, I would say, I think knowing people would help. If you're trying to be like someone that works in lighting or the camera department or something like that, or even like being a director or an editor,

Starting point is 00:07:35 maybe not an editor as much, but like, yeah, Everything on set, I think, is a little more iffy. You know, you don't know when you get the next job. But I think for visual effects, I think, or anything that's in post, there's a little more stability. And you get to work on really cool stuff. Like, everything's already shot, and you just get to work on really awesome projects. So I think that was a big draw to me.

Starting point is 00:07:59 Yeah. And I guess both have its pros and cons. Because I guess, for example, with working on set, you often get a question if you seen any famous actors or directors so actually when you're on set I guess you get the experience in the new case say

Starting point is 00:08:16 oh yeah I did I mean even now people ask me that and I'm like no it's it's been shot already we work on all this I feel the same before yeah I'm like oh yeah I work on Akam first thing people ask for like oh did you meet Jason

Starting point is 00:08:30 Mamoa? I'm like no not that once ago in a different country but yeah when I worked on set in L.A. I did run into famous people, you know, just being in the studio lots, there's like people walking by. I mean, just living in L.A., really, just kind of go to a coffee shop and see somebody. When I was working in restaurants, like I was a cook and people would come, famous people would come through. Really? Can you name some? Yeah, I worked at this restaurant called Jones on Third, which is very popular restaurant in L.A. They serve like all different

Starting point is 00:09:02 kinds of foods. Very stressful. Probably one of the most stressful jobs I've ever. pad. I was like wake up at 3, 4 in the morning, start work at 5, 4 until 2. But yeah, it was right next to some studios, Steve Krell, Jason Bateman, Mini Driver. Big names from the Hollywood. Yeah, yeah. Who else was there? I mean, in my life, I met quite a few. I met Ryan Gosling when I was in France at the Cannes Film Festival.

Starting point is 00:09:33 I was on this show that Terry Cruz was hosting. America's Funniest Video thing. I worked on that as Pia. Just a bunch of different, you know, random. Well, at least you can answer the question if you've seen any famous people. You don't know which one to pick. Yeah. And also, like, it was cool that my first movie, Ant Man, because I was in the pre-vis part of things,

Starting point is 00:09:55 like I was in meetings with just me, my supervisor, and the director. So I was like, oh, this is awesome. It's going to be like this for the whole time. I think it was, I actually prefer pre-vis to me. me it's a little more creative than visual effects. Yeah, because you're working closely with the director and you're getting feedback right away. And because they're not shooting, they're like basing what you're making and then kind of shooting it, you know? So you actually work a lot closer with that on the creative side of things.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Rather than like visual effects, everything's already shot. You're just, I mean, I don't want to like simplify it. I'm not, you don't you just adding all this stuff into it. but I'd say kind of, at least in terms of like storytelling and stuff, kind of there's not as much as that as in pre-vis. So I didn't enjoy working on. I worked on Antman and then I worked on Ms. Marvel. Those are the two previous projects I've worked on.

Starting point is 00:10:49 Yeah, I was about to ask you more about the previous, but before that, I've got one more question, because you mentioned before that you did also a master's. Would you say that it helps you to get into the industry if you've got a degree or it doesn't really matter? honestly I don't know I would say maybe maybe I got the coordinator job because of my degrees like I skipped the PA thing maybe he's the dude that interviewed me was like okay he's you know a serious guy he has like these qualifications so maybe in some ways it can I'd say in the end the stuff that I learned from it didn't really help at all unless you know I mean I remember all that stuff but I didn't become a big famous director or anything. You know, I think, like, the people I met are cool, but I don't really stay in touch

Starting point is 00:11:39 with them. I think it was kind of a waste of money, to be honest. I think it's cool that I can say, yeah, I have my master's. I got it printed out and all that, and it is a cool kind of thing to say. But in the end, I would say, you don't really need it now. Yeah. And I guess maybe good for connections, but I don't know. Yeah, it depends.

Starting point is 00:12:01 you know, like I moved away. All those people are still in California, I think. And honestly, I mean, I'm Facebook friends of them. Some of them don't do film stuff anymore. They moved on. They're doing something else. They got married. You know, people, that was a while ago, so they're doing different things now.

Starting point is 00:12:18 Yeah, yeah. I would say of all kind of my graduating class, which was pretty small from my master's thing, I'm still, I don't know, I guess the most successful in the industry of all the people, just in that. I'm still working in the industry and on big stuff. Yeah, you know, in a few years, BFX producer or something. Something, yeah, we'll see. I don't know what's going to happen, but yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:46 So coming back to Previs, can you introduce more? What is it that you do in the Previse? And where is it in the pipeline? Yeah, so Previz, I was a visualization coordinator. in the pipeline, it's the very first thing. So basically you get the script. You work closely with the director. You basically see what shots are going to need visual effects.

Starting point is 00:13:12 And some of the shots don't even need visual effects. It's almost like a really cool way to storyboard stuff. So the director and the cinematographer and everybody can like see how the shot's going to be played out, where the camera should move, how it shouldn't, you know, how it's going to move, where to place all the actors. blocking, but then it's also very heavily influenced by what visual effects are going to be needed. It helps the visual effects soups on the client's side, like figure out what kind of, like, for example, what kind of superpowers what they're going to look like, how they're going to interact with stuff. So it's like a way to like brainstorm stuff and also like block things out

Starting point is 00:13:52 and see what needs to be, what shots need to be removed or what needs to be added. And it kind of looks like, you know, like a, like a video game. So it's like really fast turnaround. Um, there's not a lot of departments. It's basically just people that are called shot creators. So they have, uh, there's, there's, there's asset. And then there's also assets. So there's people that are building the assets, the sets and the people and the characters and the props and stuff. And then there's the shot creators, which basically takes all that. And then they just make, they take the camera, they add all the stuff. They even do all the animation and all that. Um, to make a very like, bare bones shot.

Starting point is 00:14:30 And then there's an editor. And then they edit that together. We send it off to the client. And they're like, all right, this is cool. Let's add in this. Let's change this. And then it's a lot of back and forth. And then, yeah, you work closely with the director.

Starting point is 00:14:41 You're getting feedback from the director all the time. Yeah, it would be really cool to actually to work with the actual director. Such a big person. Yeah. Yeah. It is fun. Because, you know, in visual effects, it's mostly you're dealing with the client side. And you have meetings, you're talking to the VFX soup on their side. And then they'll be like, okay, we're going to go.

Starting point is 00:15:00 I'm going to talk to the director and then get back to whatever they say. That's usually how it goes. I mean, sometimes I've been in meetings where the director's there and like, you know, saying stuff, usually on Zoom or something. I mean, ever since COVID or whatever. But there have been some meetings since I've been in visual effects where the director is in the meeting or like, you know, video call. Yeah, but mostly not. Mostly they do their own stuff.

Starting point is 00:15:25 If you're on the client's side, they're doing their meetings. with them instead of the vendors. Yeah. Yeah. Can you say roughly how long before the actual shoot it happens? The previs? Yeah. Or does it happen during the shoot?

Starting point is 00:15:40 It happens sometimes before, but even usually during. And then, no, it happens before. And I would say not that much in advance, sometimes even just like a week or two in advance. So not like months and months in advance. And then while that's happening, we'll get footage back. and we add it's called post-vis. So we'll get the footage and it'll be just a rough thing of us adding the pre-vis into their plates, the footage.

Starting point is 00:16:09 So then you'll see just like the actors and all that against blue screen or whatever and then we'll add the background. We'll add the superpowers. They're not finals. They don't look anything like what you'll see in the screen, but it's just a way to, for the director to see what needs to be changed and all that. And that's happening while they're shooting. we'll just be getting like footage the next day after they did their shoot the day before. I can imagine it must be, as you said, fast turnaround and quite a pressure if shoot is just approaching and you want to get it as soon as possible. Yeah, it is.

Starting point is 00:16:41 But I will say the one good thing about pre-vis, post-fiz is that it's just way more simplified than visual effects. It doesn't have to go through animation, which then us to get kicked back to like, you know, maybe like whatever. I mean, everything has to go through lighting and then comp and then. maybe has to like change the fur and has to go back to it. So you don't need to do any of that stuff. Just go straight to the shot creator person. They picks it up and then yeah, send it off. So it's a lot simpler and that's why it's a lot faster.

Starting point is 00:17:11 Instead, you know, making it look picture perfect for the screen. Was previous something that you wanted to do or did you get in there once you were accepted into the company? I haven't even really knew about it until I got hired it. Yeah. Because all I knew was visual effects. And then, yeah, the third floor hired me. And I was like, they're working on all these cool movies. And that's when I learned what pre-vis was.

Starting point is 00:17:34 And to me, it's like a super vital thing. Because even like the visual effects, we're looking at pre-biz stuff from whatever company, usually the third floor. And we kind of base off, you know, camera moves and all that based off the pre-vis that we get. So it's a really key thing, I think, for the whole process. Just in the pipeline. Yeah. And no, I didn't know what it was. I didn't want.

Starting point is 00:17:56 I had no idea until I started working there. And then I was like, oh, this is awesome. And honestly, like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll go back to pre-vis one day. So after working in there, what, you know, what did you do afterwards? Or how did you get where we are now? After that, I got an offer to move to Montreal with MPC to work on X-Men Dark Phoenix. As a visual effects coordinator on, I was specifically, I was DMP, so environments,

Starting point is 00:18:25 and that's what that was it just that I was on it was DMP for like a few months working on X-Men sorry again can you do a little introduction to DMP yeah so it's like digital map painting which is what it stands for which is like it's just a it's a department that is it updates like all the stuff that you see in environments so it could be buildings it could be mountains it could be sky it could be roads and that includes I mean it could be like rocks and water anything that's part of the environment. So a lot of it is removing blue screen and adding in, you know, cool stuff in the background.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And so it's DMP, but it's also environments. Environments will do more of the CG stuff. DMP is more like painting, you know. We'll be painting over roads and making stuff like bigger or sky or whatever. So it's kind of a mix of departments, DMP and environments. And yeah, that's what I worked on. on experts. Where is it in the pipeline?

Starting point is 00:19:28 It's towards the beginning because people can, you can kind of work in tandem at the same time as like, say, animation is working their thing. So it's kind of towards the beginning and kind of throughout, it's kind of its own department, but I mean, a lot of stuff depends on it. It's kind of in the, I would say, a little bit after layout and then animation starts and then after that happens, then people can start working on environments throughout the whole pipeline, basically like it's never like lighting and animation i mean animation isn't waiting for for environments you know they're doing their own thing yeah yeah sorry i interrupted before uh you were saying that

Starting point is 00:20:07 you were working on x-men dark phoenix right yeah yeah so i worked on that for about a year at mpc um after that i worked on uh this movie called noelle which was this christmas movie with the pitch perfect girl i'm not the gno i probably don't know the film uh god i forgot No, well, it wasn't great. It went to like to Netflix, and it was like a cute family Christmas movie. But that's when MPC decided to, instead of having just coordinators for each department, kind of break it up and do it by, what did we do it about? I think I got two or three departments at that point.

Starting point is 00:20:40 I was doing artifacts and animation or something like that. And I worked on that for about a year. Was it a lot of work for you to handle if you're overlooking different departments? No, I think it was important, especially like in terms of, of my career growth to know how other departments work instead of sticking with one. I think they did that on purpose so that, you know, people can like figure out how the pipeline works, you know, how things are fed into the next department. So, no, I think it was a good thing. And then I don't know what they're doing now that I think they reintegrated how they do their

Starting point is 00:21:18 production stuff, but I'm not sure. There was too many super happy people at MPC. I think a lot of people left when I was there. Okay. So I guess you left as well afterwards. Yeah, I got, actually they transferred me over to Mr. X. Mr. X, I was there for like six months and they mostly do television stuff, some movies, but. Sorry, Mr. X. Is it, is it like specific project or a studio or? No, it's another studio that's also owned by Technicolor. So it's like MPC under the

Starting point is 00:21:53 Technicolor company. There's MPC Mr. X and there's like another one too but it's like under the same

Starting point is 00:21:59 umbrella thing. So that's why they could just transfer me over. It's still Technicolor that owns it. It was still

Starting point is 00:22:06 in Montreal? Yeah, that was still in Montreal. Yeah. Yeah. So I worked there for a little bit

Starting point is 00:22:13 and then COVID happened. Oh, yes. And then they were letting people go. They had to or whatever. So I was one of the

Starting point is 00:22:20 one of the people. They like let go of all their coordinators. there's no work. Everything was on pause. I mean, we all remember COVID. And luckily, right, when that happened, like a week later,

Starting point is 00:22:30 I got an offer from Scanline. So I worked at Scanline. I worked on the Suicide Squad, the James Gunn movie, for about a year. And I was a comp coordinator. I was comp and animation, I believe, mostly comp. Yeah, and I worked on that for about a year.

Starting point is 00:22:51 and that was the first kind of, you know, everyone's experimenting with, can we work from home? How is it, you know, so that was kind of the first, first movie that I worked on working from home fully. And it went well. But that was kind of an interesting transition, you know, from being in the office all the time to work at home fully. And now everyone's used to it and we can do it.

Starting point is 00:23:15 Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you had already great overview of different departments. Yeah, I think it was important. And I don't know if I've requested some of them, but I just gave it to me. And it was, yeah, I mean, I've done like in a D-Neg on Aquaman. That's when I was a line producer, but I was more in charge of the front end of things. So it would be like layout and animation and rigging.

Starting point is 00:23:44 And I didn't do assets, but I think you did assets, didn't you? I did built, yeah. Yeah, okay. I was a scan line. Yeah, I did comp there. I was there for about a year. And then I got an offer from Framstore to become a line producer. So I was like, all right, well, I'm going to do that for sure.

Starting point is 00:24:03 So I left Scanline, became a line producer. This is still in Montreal. And yeah, my first line producer movie was Moonfall, which is, it was okay. Yeah, it's on Netflix, isn't it? Yeah, it's on Netflix now. Roland Emmerich directed it, you know, end of the world. world thing that he likes to do. And there's alien stuff in it.

Starting point is 00:24:23 But yeah, it was cool to work on that as my first movie, as a line producer. More responsibility, you know, like now I'm in charge of kind of, you know, talking to the coordinators every day, making sure that, you know, they're doing, managing their tasks. I'm updating like milestones and kind of looking at the overall schedule now, talking closely with a production manager. Yeah, so it was a bit of a change, but I liked it. I think I was ready for it. And I've been a line producer now for three years, three and a half years.

Starting point is 00:24:58 Yeah. And sorry, I'm curious, because you still stayed in Montreal. Is Montreal like a kind of Canadian hub of VFX studios? So it's like London. Yeah, yeah, it is. I'd say Montreal, the most, I would say, just on North America, and, you know, in Canada, I would say Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver are the big VFX hubs of the West. So, yeah, like more than in the U.S., more than L.A., Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver, yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:32 Is that because of the, I don't know, talent or things to government? Yeah, government tax? I'm not really sure. Where they are. Like, people think on like L.A. or New York. or something, but no. It's Canada. Yeah, Montreal has,

Starting point is 00:25:53 I think they might have ILM too, but they have most of the major VFX companies there. And I would say Vancouver does too. Vancouver has like ILM, MC, Framstore, like everything. I was going to say as well that you had opportunity to try such a big students, like kind of the biggest ones

Starting point is 00:26:12 or the most famous ones. Yeah, I've worked at, a lot of the big ones. Yeah. And then D-Neg, right? So I got an offer in London for D-Neg and then flew to London and worked on Aquaman 2

Starting point is 00:26:26 for about a year and a half. And then after that, worked on a couple other projects with D-Negg until, yeah, until the strikes happened. And then they started downsizing. And then because my contract ended, they weren't going to renew it.

Starting point is 00:26:45 So I was kind of at a lot. I didn't know what to do at that point. I was like, I don't know if I'm going to have to go back to the States or whatever. But then I had applied to Australia, ILM, and Sydney months ago before that. But didn't hear back from them because the strikes had just happened. So there was no work. So I had my interviews with them like a week before all the strikes happened. So then I was, okay, well, they're just trying to get back to me.

Starting point is 00:27:14 But then, yeah, like a week. after D-NED, you know, I said goodbye to D-Neg, I heard from them and luckily they were like, yeah, we have an offer for you. Like, do you want to come out to Sydney? So I was like, yeah, please. Another exciting opportunity. Yes, very. So I was like, oh my God, I always wanted to live in Australia too, just, and to me like,

Starting point is 00:27:35 yeah, literally like Canada, London, like, let's go. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trade Blank. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 Tips on how to succeed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. Sorry, I jumped a bit before, but I was going to ask you when you progressed into working as LP, was that something that you wanted or did it happen naturally? thanks to your progression. It's definitely something I wanted.

Starting point is 00:28:20 I think it was the next big step for me in terms of progressing in my career. I think I had originally, I think I might have applied for the production manager position, and then my interview was for that. But then they were like, well, you haven't, you know, we have another role that's above a coordinator, but below a production manager,

Starting point is 00:28:39 and it's a line producer position, and we want to offer that to you. And I said, that's perfect. Because I mean, honestly, at that point, I wasn't ready to manage the whole schedule just coming from coordinator to PM, you know? Yeah. And Fram Store. What I was thinking as well, it sounds quite a big step.

Starting point is 00:28:55 Yeah, weirdly at Fram Store, there was no PM position. So when I worked at Moonfall, it was like me, I had another LP. We basically broke it up by sequences. So like I did half and then she did half. And then the producer was, yeah, it was kind of our main. She was like the PM slash producer. But weirdly at Framster, there is. know, I don't, maybe it's changed now, but there wasn't no PM. It was just line producers and

Starting point is 00:29:21 producers. So in a way, we were like semi-production managers at the same time, but yeah, I don't know if that's changed. That's why when I moved, when I went to DENeg, I kind of like that, I had more time to like learn how to become a production manager. And I'm sure that'll be my next, whenever that's going to happen next year or two, who knows. But at least I'll have that time to like be a be a lime producer and kind of know how to do that for a few years now yeah and i can imagine that it's much more helpful or beneficial thanks to your experience of working across various departments as coordinator that that you know what the people under you those coordinators that you are working with what are their task well they are you know basically that

Starting point is 00:30:07 you understand them definitely it's i think it's a very key thing to know what you know the people that you're guiding, because it's also, you're like mentoring too, but you're also trying to work on a cool movie, and it's good to know what they have to do day to day, you know, and that is one thing. I don't really deal with the artists too much anymore. That is something I do miss a little bit, but it is good to know, like, at least talking to the courts, you know, how they're, yeah, handling their day-to-day responsibilities, checking in, making their tasks, filling in, you know, durations and all that for how long these tasks are going to be. And it's a lot of back and forth. But it's a good thing. You know, it's important for them also and to see how they are progressing in their

Starting point is 00:30:51 careers too. Yeah. So the offer from Dinek was that the reason for you to move to London? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had the offer. I mean, I always wanted to live in London. That was like a dream, you know, mostly because I just wanted to travel around Europe. But also there's another another good opportunity for just advancing in my career. It was the same position. I was a line producer. But yeah, I think I was just ready to move on. And I know D-Neg is, you know, great company.

Starting point is 00:31:21 They work on really cool movies. And it was in London, so I couldn't say no to that. And I was there for two years and really took advantage of not only just like working at D-N-EG, but I mean, living in Europe was, you know, really cool. Yeah, I'm curious if you, as someone who's got experience from different places, especially such big cities across continents can you do a little comparison of different cultures or how did you find it where you moved to different places what was it like yeah well Montreal I think is very laid back I wouldn't say like as laid back as like California maybe but I'm almost like it's smaller it's a smaller city we have really really crazy winters and all that but I don't know I would say that everyone's really cool. It's, you know, it's French and English. I think primarily a lot of people speak French there, but you can get by knowing English. You don't have to know French. And I never felt

Starting point is 00:32:23 like weird not being able to speak French. Everyone, for the most part, spoke English. I mean, some people don't even speak French there, too. So it was just a lot of different, it was very diverse, a lot of different cultures there. London, same thing. London's a lot busier. Obviously, it's a huge city, one of the biggest, you know, and more expensive for sure. But I think if you, like, you know, find a good place and, you know, don't spend too much, you can have a really great time there. I had a really good time. And I, all my spending was mostly just going on, like, city breaks, weekend trips to different countries. And I never thought people were like, you know, some people are, oh, well, London people can be standoffish or whatever. Like, you know, I didn't really get that.

Starting point is 00:33:08 or even when I went to like, I don't know, Paris or something. But maybe I'm just oblivious to people that are rude or whatever like that. But I had a really good time there. I would say, I don't know how long I'm going to be in Australia. If not forever, then maybe I'd move back to London or, I don't know, Vancouver. It's kind of just, I'll go with the flow, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And you never know what happens next.

Starting point is 00:33:34 The one was expecting COVID, was expecting strikes. Yeah, I know it's been back and back, like just a lot of stuff being hurled at us. But yeah, I mean, eventually once I settle down, have a family, I'd like some stability, probably where I'm staying. I wouldn't like to be bouncing around, dragging my family with me the whole time. But for now. Yeah, where are some maybe culture shocks that surprised you and you would like to mention?

Starting point is 00:34:05 Maybe when you move to different city and you didn't expect. Well, from Montreal, definitely the language. That was a different thing, just the French. I mean, I felt like I was living in Europe. And the letter. But culturally, I don't know. I mean, I guess it just depends on here hanging out with that. Because where I lived, I met a lot of European people.

Starting point is 00:34:25 I lived with like, it was like three floors of, you know, different students or young workers or whatever. And they'd be from, you know, Italy or Spain or wherever. So it was just a mix of different people. And then the locals in Montreal, too, were really friendly. I mean, Canada is known for being very friendly. Haven't you even tried to learn French? I did. Yeah, yeah. My girlfriend is from Montreal.

Starting point is 00:34:52 And she is her first language is French. So, yeah, I have tried to learn. I'm still learning. It's a tough language to learn. But surely I'll get it. At least you can practice. there's no excuses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can practice.

Starting point is 00:35:11 I'll keep practicing. I got to get my Duo logo back. And then, yeah, London, culture shock. I mean, not really. I don't know. I think I've just traveled so much. I'm just, I just acclimate really easily to different places. I mean, even here now, their accent is a little bit similar to the British accent,

Starting point is 00:35:29 but a little bit different. But, yeah, I think here, people are a little more go to bed early, wake up early, do really active stuff rather than London is like go to a pub, stay out late you know, yeah, it's very much pop culture here. Stuff here closes early

Starting point is 00:35:49 for a lot of places. I think here it's more you know, very active lifestyle. People like to go to the beach. They like to surf. They like to, yeah, stay healthy. And I'm not saying London's like that. Not like that. But I think it's just because of the weather and the opportunities to like outdoors.

Starting point is 00:36:07 stuff. So that's a bit different here. Is Sydney also kind of a hub for VFX that there are plenty of students? I wouldn't say it's as huge as London or Montreal. I think there's a handful. Like the ILM studio here just opened in 2019 so it's fairly new. And I know there's like animal logic here, maybe like two or three more but there's definitely not as much as London. I don't think like Fram Stores out here or D-Neg. No, no, D-Neg is out here actually.

Starting point is 00:36:41 I remember they were opening, but I don't know if it changed because of the strikes. Yeah, no, D-N-EG is out here. I had an interview with them too. But then the strikes happened and I even reached out and they were like, yeah, because I know I had a really great interview. So now once you moved in, I do you feel like you settled completely? I'm pretty settled.

Starting point is 00:37:02 Luckily, I found a place pretty fast to live. That is one thing about moving to a new place, especially like in London and Sydney. It's very pricey. You're competing with a lot of people that are trying to find apartments, so it can be. But I got lucky. The first place I went to worked out really good. I live in a cool neighborhood next to trains so I can go to work. I go to work two days a week to the office and then three days at home, so it's hybrid.

Starting point is 00:37:28 But yeah, it's been nice so far. I'm settling in. It's only been a few weeks. but it feels like home now. Yeah, sounds like beautiful and amazing place and just a new, exciting opportunity. Yeah, I don't know how I'll be here.

Starting point is 00:37:43 I have a year contract and then we'll see what happens if they'll extend it or not. Yeah. And with rich portfolio of the projects you worked on, can you expand on some projects that maybe you enjoyed working on

Starting point is 00:37:58 or for some reason is just worth talking about? Yeah. Let me think. Well, I really did like Ant Man, like I said, because that was the pre-vis set of things. In terms of like visual effects, movies that I really enjoyed, I don't know. I would say, well, X-Men was a big one for me because it was my first one. It was my first time. Dark Phoenix, yeah. It wasn't like a super great movie, but I think it was just the fact that it was my first big movie and I was working in visual effects. I was learning the pipeline. It was a big learning process for me. You know, and it was also the first time that I lived in a different country, and I was like, just the whole, the whole thing was, um, was fun and exciting and a little scary. But, you know, in the end, I think that's, that was a, that was a special movie just in terms of, it was a big step, you know, going into visual effects. after that, yeah, I don't know. They've all kind of meshed together. I'd say, I mean, I really liked Suicide Squad just because I thought it was a funny movie. Some of the shots were really cool to work on in terms of, like, creativity.

Starting point is 00:39:06 I think that was maybe one of my favorite movies that I've worked on. I feel like it must be cool just to work on a movie of James Gunn. Yeah, yeah, I know. It was funny, but I was going to work on Superman. Yeah, yeah. And that got changed. I was like, all right, well, I guess I already did a James Gunn movie, so that's okay. But it was going to be cool because it's like the first, you know, DC part of that.

Starting point is 00:39:28 Because they're like discontinuing the other one, the whole franchise and they're rebooting it. So I thought that would have been cool to be on. But the one I'm, yeah, the movie I'm currently on, I think will be cool too. And that'll come out later this year. Yeah, we're excited to find out what it is in a few months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll find out. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Honestly, I really like working on Aquaman. That was my first London movie and I had a really good team of people I mean, you were on it. It was just brief, but I was over-excited when I joined. Yeah, it was also an interesting movie. It was fun. There were some funny things, some cool scenes in it.

Starting point is 00:40:05 And I was on that for a long time, like a year and a half or something like that. But that was fun too. And yeah, there's a couple others, but I don't know if I should mention it because they're not released yet. So what about some dream projects? Are you fan of maybe some saga or specific director or someone?

Starting point is 00:40:23 I can work on like June 3 or something. Oh, yeah. You know. And something that's like super epic Academy Award nominated type of movie. I've worked on so many superhero things. Are you fan of superheroes? Yeah, I'm a fan of like whatever. I like, I'll watch all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:40:41 Yeah, I'm a fan. I wouldn't say I'm like a major, major fan. But I mean, I read comics and graphic novels and things. and I like working on the movies, but I'm not like super into Aquaman or something like that. But I like working on them. I would say I'm a fan, but I'm not like an ultra fan, you know? Yeah, I'd rather work on like Dune, you know,

Starting point is 00:41:00 or like, I don't know, some other like sci-fi cool, like alien or something like that. Yeah. As someone who's got such experience in VFX, is there some kind of asset or specific scene or shot or a film that, you remember for it's beautiful or great VFX? I mean, honestly, I just saw June 2 not long ago, and that like blew me away. I was like, this movie, I don't know, it made me feel like a kid again. Even just the first like shots, you know, like I don't know if you've seen it.

Starting point is 00:41:31 No, I'm ashamed to say this, but I should see it in upcoming days. I still haven't seen it. Okay, we'll go see it. And I don't know if you've seen the first one, but it's better than the first one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the first one was awesome. I think, no, I didn't go to IMAX, but it was amazing. I was blue-ploid.

Starting point is 00:41:49 Yeah, I don't know. Just off the top of my head most recently, I would say that. Like, go see that. And that was like what it reminds me to, like, be excited to go to the movie theaters again. Yeah, yeah. More than more than more than that. Perfect example. Yeah, that was, I'd say, like, Dune 2 was sick.

Starting point is 00:42:08 Yeah. And something we already discussed before about your future aspirations. But coming back to it, is like your next go-to become PM? I think so. That's the, I think the, what's going to happen if I want to keep doing this. And I think I will. It's definitely a more stressful job because you're hooking over everything. But, and then it just gets even more stressful after that than you're a producer.

Starting point is 00:42:36 We'll see. I don't know. I might branch off and do like, I don't know, maybe work on a different side of the VFX company or I don't know, I'm pretty open to whatever they, whatever comes my way. Yeah. So, yeah, the natural progression of things would become a production manager, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So if we step out of BFX, you, do you want to tell us about your hobbies or what you do?

Starting point is 00:43:01 As I'm not mistaken, you take pictures, right? Yeah, I do portrait photography. That's a big hobby. I started in Montreal. And then, yeah, I got a big follow. I got like 16,000 on on Instagram and it's it's um I mostly do I'm I got really into Photoshop um so uh if you look my stuff up it's uh Tommy A Sousa so it's my name with A because it's my middle name so Tommy A Sousa is my handle on Instagram and it's uh yeah I will look it to the show

Starting point is 00:43:35 yeah it's uh it's mostly portrait photography it's all portrait photography um and then just like really heavy editing in terms of like sometimes I'll add it looks like visual effects or something it's all Photoshop but yeah just like could be a creature superpowers or just really like heavy like I'm really into colors and really vibrant moody type vibes but I've been doing that for yeah since I don't know since Montreal so it's been a few years now that's one of my big hobbies in terms of other stuff just as a hobby or do is it like also like a freelancing yeah I've done more serious. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:13 I've gotten paid for it for either the model would pay me, or I've also gotten gigs where I'm like helping people edit. I'll do like FaceTime's or, you know, Zoom calls and teaching them how to use Photoshop. Or I'll get pictures sent to me where I'll edit the pictures and send it back and then get paid that way. Or it'll just be like, you know, trade time for photos. So it'll just be like a collaborative type thing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:39 So that's one of my bigger hobbies. for sure. Yeah, where are you going to mention some other big hobby? Because I don't know. I run a lot. I've got back into scuba diving recently. I mean, just living in Sydney now, it's like such an active place. I'm also just becoming more active since I've been here.

Starting point is 00:44:59 It isn't kind of Sydney perfect place for scuba diving? If I'm not mistaken, there is the reef from kind of Nemo. I've died with the Great Bear Reef last weekend, actually. Oh, that sounds interesting. Yeah, up in canes it's called and fly there. But yeah, it was really beautiful. And in Sydney too, lots of snorkeling, surfing, scuba diving. Yeah, just all around, like lots of stuff.

Starting point is 00:45:25 Not a lot of wind, so you can't really do any wind sports, but a lot of water stuff. But I bet it's a beautiful change from London. The weather. For sure, if you're inactive. And then, yeah, lots of stuff. Yeah. So with your rich career and experience, can you share some advice from your career? Maybe for someone who wanted to get into industry or something that you would do differently if you are starting again? Sure. My advice should be stick to it. I know it can be discouraging and you could be told no a lot.

Starting point is 00:46:03 But I think if you're passionate about it, then keep trying. Because no matter what, like you'll get something eventually. Like I didn't know it was going to become getting a visual effects and it ended up working out really well for me. Like changed my life by working at this little company in L.A., working on little TV shows. And I'm, you know, all the way in Sydney working on really big movies. And I think try and figure out what you're most interested in because the industry has so many different departments and different ways that you can get into it. And I think like finding out what you're passionate about will really help kind of narrow down what you should be focusing on, who you should be like. like interviewing with and applying for it.

Starting point is 00:46:42 I think that really helps. I mean, even now, especially with all the technology that's out there, there's so many new jobs opening up. I mean, it sounds scary because I know there's jobs that are also closing because of technology, but also it's opening up a lot of new things, too. So I think that's, I think it's an exciting time to get into, especially if you're getting into visual effects or post stuff. There's so much new, like even AI, there's a lot of stuff that's evolving and opening

Starting point is 00:47:06 new things. Yeah, yeah. Cool. So you mentioned that people can check out your Instagram, which I will link to, but are there other channels where we are active or where people can follow you? No, just Instagram mostly. I don't really use TikTok. I mean, I just use it to watch stuff. But now I'm mostly just Instagram. You know, I got Facebook and stuff. But just in terms of social media that I like show my stuff, it's just Instagram. Yeah, perfect. So as we will be finishing, if you want to, I don't know, promote yourself or if there is something I forgot to ask you or you want to share something, now it's your time. No, I think that's all good. Yeah, I mean, yeah, check out my Instagram.

Starting point is 00:47:51 You know, if you want to follow me, that's fine. Yeah, it's just. If you want to edit pictures, some of the firsts? Yeah, if anyone wants to send me pics or, you know, to edit, I'd be happy to do that. but yeah yeah that's it yeah great so thank you to me i appreciate it that you know you joined me on the podcast it was great to catch up because i remember that we worked together on a few projects and you know sounds amazing you're that you are working in sydney and on such a project so i wish you good luck and thank you amazing thanks so much thank you for listening if we enjoy the show

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Produced By - From Backpacker to Blockbusters: A VFX Line Producer's Global Journey | #52: Tommy Souza

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