Produced By - From Marcus Aurelius to Memes: Branding Without the Cringe | #113: Keti Zasheva

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Keti Zasheva is a LinkedIn branding strategist, co-founder of We Craft You Grow, and founder of K.D'Studio. She has helped over 100 founders and CEOs grow their visibility on LinkedIn without cold messages, burnout, or cringe tactics. With a background in design and a life shaped between Australia and Macedonia, Keti brings a blend of creativity, clarity, and strategy to every brand she supports.In this episode, she shares how she grew her own profile to over 20,000 followers in less than a year. You will hear what it really takes to run a done-for-you LinkedIn agency, how to stand out without selling out, and a few unexpected stories along the way. From philosophy-fuelled books to Assassin’s Creed and her love of cats, this one is as inspiring as it is refreshingly real.Connect with Keti:https://www.linkedin.com/in/keti-zasheva-179a03290/https://www.wecraftyougrow.com/Timestamps:00:00 – Why authenticity matters on LinkedIn01:02 – Podcast intro and guest welcome01:25 – Keti’s story: Macedonia to Australia02:34 – From gaming and art to design03:20 – Why she left 3D art behind05:00 – Choosing slow living over hustle culture06:06 – Would she move again?07:33 – Freelance design and first LinkedIn posts08:05 – Meeting her co-founder Marina09:20 – How memes changed her growth12:03 – Growing from 100 to 20k+ followers13:24 – Her advice: uniqueness, value, fearlessness16:13 – Why short posts perform better18:13 – Consistency, burnout, and boundaries20:53 – Starting her agency We Craft You Grow22:43 – Plans for growing the agency23:42 – Who they work with and why24:34 – How their agency stands out26:45 – Client challenges and lessons learned29:02 – Why daily posting can backfire33:33 – How to build real LinkedIn engagement35:35 – Her dream clients and ideal projects36:18 – Tools she uses: ChatGPT, Canva, Adobe38:49 – Why she writes books on mindset41:02 – Stoicism, burnout, and personal growth44:15 – Her hobbies: cats, gym, archery, art45:40 – Gaming and creative energy47:29 – Final advice: be real, stay human48:29 – Podcast closing and thank you Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If I could clarify it in two, three words, maybe it would be uniqueness, value, and being fearless, like not having fear. Why? It's because, as I said, even when I first started, I used to have this fear of not speaking as my true self. And I think that's what pushed me back even more. Like, I couldn't gain anything from that. But when I stopped fearing, when I started to really position myself as being this specific and unique person as each of us are. So we all have unique stories. and also not having the future to share them, share successes, share failures, share anything that's making you human and making you you. Because I really don't like when people on LinkedIn just post the same thing, but phrase differently. You know what I mean?

It's like, it's the same message in every post, but different format. And back then, people used to post these long posts. And I mean, no formatting, like chat GPT emojis. I was like, I am not reading this. There is nothing in the world that can make me sit down and read this. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you.

Hello, Katie. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you for having me on here, Tolos. I'm very, very excited to talk to you. So Katie, for those who don't know you, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, so my name is Katie and currently I'm a lot. our co-founder of a social media agency, digital agency. But the most work that we do is on LinkedIn,

where we scale LinkedIn profiles, scale businesses, help teams to grow and be visible on LinkedIn. And can you tell us Mark 80 about your background? Because as people might know or not know, you are a friend of Maria, someone who I spoke with as well. And you are also from the country that I feel like that I haven't met

that many people from there. So I'll be curious to hear more about your experience. What was it like growing up there? And what is it like to live there? Yeah. So my backstory is kind of different because I am of Macedonian nationality. But I was born in Australia, Sydney. I lived there for five years.

I came back to Macedonia and lived here most of my life. And then five years ago, went back to Australia, came back. And now I'm here. So quite a journey. Quite a journey. Actually, I saw it on your website on the website. on the one with such art. So I was curious if it's different Katie

or if it's actually you as a Katie, so I was about to ask. Yeah, that's me. I used to do a lot of art back in the day. Still trying to do it, but that was my main, I guess. I was like, that's what I wanted to do back then. So I had, I really wanted to work in Ubisoft. I'm not sure if you know the...

Like the gaming company. Yeah. I wanted to do like character design, but I was like, I'm not sure if I can be there. so did other works. Oh, I see. Is it because you've been into gaming or you enjoyed like a 3D art? I really liked specifically Assetus Creed, especially the origins one with the Egyptians.

I'm a big fan of ancient Egypt. So, yeah, that kind of hooked me on. And we learned how to draw online and digitally. And yeah. And why didn't you pursue that type of career, like to become 3D artist? I'm not really sure. I think it's because I thought it was harder and I thought that I wouldn't fit in just because I was doing graphic design, but this is like very specific and I checked like the applications that they were showing and where there was possibility for me to work. So there was an option of Sydney, I think. And another one was in Bulgaria. So I just kind of had to be like, okay, if I were to move there, like if I'm in Sydney, of course, I'm going to work there, but there was no chance back then because I was studying already. So. So I was like maybe right now where I'm here, the closest place is Bulgaria. So I might give it a try someday, but for now, I think I'm good with the agency to be honest.

And if you don't mind it, Sharon, what is actually the reason why you left and moved to Australia or to Macedonia between these two countries? Well, practically, I went to study there because my brother was there and he was living there for 12 years, basically on his own. And so my family was like, why don't you go and see where you came from? So I was like, okay, no problem. I'll go and study. So yeah, I did leadership management, business management, did a little bit of graphic design, had some internships in other agencies for media. But I just decided that, you know, I've always felt the call to live in Europe.

And that's something that's always been in my heart. It's been very close to me. So I decided to come back here in Macedonia because I was like, This is my place. And I really enjoy the slow life. Like, I like bigger cities, but not to live in them forever. So until I make up my mind, I think I'm really doing great here in a smaller town. Yeah, I can, I feel like I can relate since I live in London, but I come from a small place as well.

And it's like a completely different life that it's more rushed faster here. Whereas when you go home, it's more chilled and completely different type of life. Yeah, I definitely, like, I worked a lot of different jobs in Australia. So really, really wide variety. And I just remember going to, I used to have two jobs at one time. And I was traveling back and forth, like, for one hour with the train. And I was like, is this life? Basically, it made me think, you know, I really wanted to be in one place, work from in one place,

and just not bother or worry about when I was going to come home, what I had to do. I just wanted it to be simple. And for some people, like, that kind of life is exciting. But for me, I really prefer slow living. And right now, have you got like any plans to, in the future, move to a different place? Or are planning to stay where you are or you don't know? I'm not sure I know. I just know that I don't think there's a lot of places that I would like to live.

There's one, maybe Ireland or Scotland, but really not sure about that one, because I practically will have to start my life from zero there. that's the tricky part. Meanwhile here I have family, I have relatives, friends that I've already made. So like that whole process of start again. Starting again is really

not hard for me, but very challenging, I guess more mentally than physically. And sorry if I miss that, but why Scotland? I've always liked it. I've always liked it. I don't know.

I feel like actually the Macedonian culture is very similar to like Scotland and Ireland, I believe. And I've always read stories about like their mythology and history and everything and that kind of pulled me in. Yeah, I mean, why not? I've been only to a few cities in Scotland, but it was beautiful, so I'm not surprised.

Yeah, did you like them? Yeah, I've been to Edinburgh and Glasgow and I think that Edinburgh is just beautiful. I would highly recommend it anyone to just visit the city and the sides and I think the whole atmosphere. It was very nice. Well, I'll have to go. You're getting me some inspiration now. Yeah, go for it. So then after your studies, when you studied graphic design, will that something that you actually plans to pursue in your career? That's actually what I started with first on LinkedIn. So I had graphic design and I wanted to

go into basically packaging design and everything or like branding. But I realized that graphic design is really interesting and it's very creative, but definitely there's a lot of pressure on you to complete certain projects and deadlines. And it's more like you do it one time and then that's it. And although I like it, I think it's because I want something that's more sustainable in those terms. So I was working freelance graphic design and I wasn't in a specific company or anything like that. And yeah, I started on LinkedIn with that, didn't manage to get a couple of gigs, honestly. And then once I realized that I've learned how LinkedIn works, I was like, okay, maybe this is the path I should take. And at that time, as you know, Marina, I actually, we were high school

friends, but we didn't talk then. We just knew each other. And so I decided to hit her up. I was like, hey, I want to, you know, share a coffee with you one day. So we meet up. She talks to me. She's all about LinkedIn. I'm like, okay. And I, the idea slowly starts to grow in my head. And I, I was like still not entertaining it like for six months I used to do like website design I don't know books I write I wrote books for some reason but I was like okay you know let's let's see where this goes and with marina it started to go really well so I'm really thankful for her for introducing me to this and yeah now we're here and I always ask people like was the reason behind starting LinkedIn So was it for you to look for work when it comes to design?

Was that the reason why you basically started? I just, it was one of the, I have to be honest, the first time I tried LinkedIn, I hated it so much. I wanted to delete my profile. I really did. Why was that? I just thought it was so, like, what's the word that I used? It's so cliched. Boring, yeah.

But at that time, I would. I was thinking like, okay, LinkedIn is supposed to be professional. So there's people with suits here. I hate to make an impression. The first month, I was, like, writing these posts that were so funny. It was like, I don't even know how I wrote, to be honest. It was just so professional and boring and this jargon. And then I thought, that's not me.

So, like, after a month, I was like, I'm going to post my first meme. And so I started posting memes. And one of the first one actually, well, not the first one, maybe the third one. was a meme of King Baldwin the 4th. I'm not sure if you know that. It's like with his hand when he stops. And Luke Matthews, he's a really big creator on LinkedIn. He commented on that.

And he was like, wow, I like this kind of post. I was like, you know what? Maybe this is working. So I slowly started to put my persona into my posts. And I didn't care about, oh, does this make me sound like this? Or will I lose somebody who's thinking more professional? because in general, I think what people relate to the most on LinkedIn, because it's already professional enough, it's just being real.

And real, not in terms of, oh, I'm going to share everything about my life, but I'm going to share this which has value in my life that can be useful for you. So I find that's the main blueprint for LinkedIn. I really like it. I always say that there should be more people posting about memes because, yeah, of course, It doesn't need to be every day, but it's something that stands out that it's just funny. And me personally, stops me scoring and I like to see something that makes me laugh. So I think it was a perfect example.

Yeah, it definitely gives you just a space to read instead of, I mean, realistically, when we scroll, are we going to read all of the posts on LinkedIn? No, we're going to read the ones that grab the attention. So, of course, if it's a meme, it's easier to digest and just entertaining and relatable. and that's what hits the most. And I think it's also good at it stands out because if you see like a motivational content, branding related,

some, I don't know, career updates, and then there is a meme, it just makes you stop and something slightly different. So that's also a good way how to stand out. And what actually like a time are we talking about? How long ago was it? Why I first started posting? Let me see

Actually Was just roughly like a few months or years I think 23 I'm not sure I will say the beginning of 2024 That's when it started Because by I remember in January That's when things started to pick up last year

Yeah and I mean How many have got more than 20K followers So you've grown quite a good presence, right? Yeah, I went from having really low followers, to be honest. It was maybe 1K at the first month. And then it slowly started to grow. And in September, that happens basically, yeah, last September. That's when I started to get a large amount of followers.

And then it slowly started to grow and grow. But that's by the time I realized how the formatting and what I need to post specifically on LinkedIn. So it really came to one point where I had to be like, okay I know what I'm doing and I'm posting about it. And like one of the questions that I just have to ask and maybe it might be a bit annoying to you because I'm sure that you received this question a lot but when someone asks you hey Katie what's the secret sauce or your piece of advice what is it that you usually tell people?

The secret sauce. The secret sauce is you have to see now that's mind me smile because I'm eating of food now and I'm quite hungry. But, but, you know, I'm sure that you get a lot of DMs and it's like, Katie, how to grow, you know, how to get followers. Because I get these messages as well and I'm always curious to hear like from different people what they would answer to this question. So I'd be curious to hear what would you answer.

Well, of course. If I could clarify it in two, three words, maybe it would be uniqueness. value you and being fearless, like not having fear. Why? It's because, as I said, even when I first started, I used to have this fear of not speaking as my true self. And I think that's what pushed me back even more. Like I couldn't gain anything from that. But when I stopped fearing, when I started to really position myself as being this specific and unique person as each of us are. So we all have unique stories and also not having the fear to share them, share successes, share failures, share anything that's making you human and making you, because I really don't like when people

on LinkedIn just post the same thing, but praise differently. You know what I mean? It's like, it's the same message in every post, but different format. And that's not intriguing for anyone, when I believe. And I used, back then, people used to post these long posts. And I mean, no formatting, like chat GPT emojis. I was like, I am not reading this. There is nothing in the world that can make me sit down and read this. Yeah.

And I was like, the shorter. So that's the blueprint at first when you're starting because there's different levels, right? So when you first start posting, for example, if you're really trying to stand out, make sure you're appealing to broader audiences and also hitting, their pain points. So it's not just, I know a lot of people struggle with, I need to get my, like, ICP here to read this and respond to this and get leads. And that's great, but it's not, it's not profitable in the way that you think you can immediately target these people and then get people. You need to throw a bigger net and then make sure that you have followers,

you build trust and authority. And that's when you can start creating variety in your content, meaning if you want to speak about results, let's say, I don't know, you may this client reach a specific number. Let's be realistic. If you were to share that with 50 followers, maybe you'll get five likes. So meaning that's not going to work for you in the beginning, but it can after you start to grow your base. Yeah. I completely agree with the points that you shared. Like, firstly, when someone posts about the same thing regularly, I understand and agree that it's important to repeat the message.

because you know you've got new people coming to your profile you want to reinforce the message but if you keep following someone I'm not going to lie I find it really boring if you see the same stuff day after day and the second point when you mentioned with the formatting I'm never reading like a long paragraph or text especially if you consider how much content there is it's uh I would say it's like I don't know what was it like back then but now I think you just have to format it. Just make it easier to skill, to understand, and make it also visually appealing,

because that's also what catches people attention. Yeah, that's true. The reason why I hesitate mostly, not saying I haven't done it before, but longer posts, to me, they're a little bit like ego-driven. Why do I think that way? It's because you're expecting somebody

to spend five minutes of their time reading your entire post. and maybe they gain something, maybe they don't. So for me, it's like, how can I let my viewer understand this specific lesson that I'm teaching quick, fast, and to get their value in and out? Because, yeah, this long reading, yeah, that's not working. But sometimes I think when someone, of course, outside of formatting, if they are really good with storytelling, and I start reading and I'm really hooked and I'm like, I want to see how it goes and how it, ends in the end, then sometimes it works, but then it comes to skill of storytelling, of course.

I think this also works for much bigger creators. So people that already have trusted them will definitely read through that post. But if someone who's just starting, there's, I think, maybe 1% chance that someone will read that post. And during your basically time sharing up on LinkedIn, did you have like any breaks or have you been consistent throughout the whole time? because one of the big things obviously is consistency in to keep showing up, but it's not always easy. Like, for example, when it comes to burnout or when it doesn't yield any results, so what is your experience like?

Yeah. Posting on LinkedIn is definitely tiring, especially if you need to think about what posts you're going to meet. So I know people that sit down and write their posts for one month ahead. I really, you know, I respect that. But for me personally, that's not. always a plan because sometimes I go from emotions. So something that's happened this week, I would write it that week and that specific day. I got angry at something.

I'm writing about it. And have I been consistent? Yes and no. For example, last year when I first started to grow on LinkedIn, I remember because I had this client who I had to work for seven days a week. And that was really draining me a lot, not just physically. mentally, but also creatively. And I would post maybe once a week back then.

I really tried my best. But from the months of, I think it was May until the 1st of September, I was really slacking. And then I started to go, you know, like, okay, let's make sure I'm being serious about this. So yes, consistency does work. But I also believe it's okay to take a break. It's okay to relax. It's okay to just rewind and see, you know, where you need to rest. because if you're continually just posting without feeling anything,

I think that's more harmful than if you were to just post when you felt like it. But healthy balance. I think so. I agree as well because I think it's also easy to compare yourself to others. If you see, for example, someone posting daily or regular, even like top-notch quality content, it's easy to compare yourself that you want to be like that as well. But then you don't know what is really the background. if the person has a team, if they're working with someone else.

So I would just say, find what works for you. Exactly. Because some people creators do have teams. You know, there's somebody writing these posts for them for hours. And all they have to do is just be there or even not be there. I was going to say that. Yeah. Not everyone is online for themselves.

And that's the reality. Not saying that that's bad. But yeah, it's just unrealistic to think somebody can post two times a day. and they're mentally follows. Yeah, yeah. And then coming back to where you met with Marina and together decided to start, we craft you grow. What was like, or why did you actually decide to join forces

and start the agency together or whose idea was it? It was both of our idea. It was both of our idea. And it was at a time where we kind of needed each other's help. So we had clients together before, but we didn't have an agency. So we just thought, let's make sure we create a website. Let's find, like, found this agency because it was about time.

And I think that was really helpful for both of us because we each specifically, like, we fill in the gaps of where one is lacking. So we make sure that we're a healthy balance of just the right amount of work and passion and creativity. and that's kind of why we decided. It was just because it was easier for us to both work together rather than alone. I completely understand. And I think it's also easier or better to have someone for support, to bounce ideas off and just help each other. Yeah, definitely.

Are you struggling to stay consistent on LinkedIn? Fan post helps you create high quality posts in minutes so you can write faster, show up more, and stress way less. Built by creators for creators is the easiest way to grow your presents without burning out. Try it free at fanpost.com. And I'm not sure, but what is it like your vision for the future? Are you planning to grow the agency, like to get other employees, or do you plan to keep it only you two, or what are your plans?

So I think, honestly, I would like to grow the agency a little bit more and focus on that, but I definitely see myself growing our team together because I only just need to basically train everybody to just do the things that I have learned. And from then on, I can focus on other things because I do have other projects in mind. I've liked the work and I'm still liking it, but it is overwhelming sometimes because you need to be there 24-7. And especially like lately, like the past few weeks I've been so burnt out it's insane but I'm still trying my best doing my best working but sometimes you do need to grow and scale in order to feel just better and more secure yeah it's especially appreciated that you've found time for the podcast a very busy schedule so

thank you always I I would love to just yeah be on here yeah and when it comes to the clients have you got specific niche that you target or who are the people that you work with? Yeah. So most of them are founders, business owners and company teams. So those are the people we're trying to target. And yeah, it's been going well with them with a lot of them. We've had clients from all over the world, to be honest. We've had from Germany, from the US, UK, Lithuania, Dubai, just a lot of places. So I'm really happy that I get to work with people from all over the world and yeah. And obviously there are many agencies out there and people who do this type of work. But would you be able to say what makes you or your agency stand out or what makes you

different or better than the others? That's tricky. But I should say because of the people behind it. People behind it. Yeah. I honestly think the one thing that makes us stand out is our ability, so both me and Marina, we have this capability to understand each industry and what each client wants. So I'm not saying that other agencies don't do that. I'm just saying that we've really mastered the process of understanding these clients' target group and people in ICP. And really,

wondering what are their main point points? How can we create this content that's not going to appear salesy? So that's one thing I'm always against is in the Marine-A-Boeh. We hate being salesy. We hate being pushy. So it's really tricky to make sure that whatever you're talking

about to get attention on LinkedIn and get leads is how do I phrase this without seeing pushy by being helpful and just by being considered inhuman? So putting that into posts, it's not easy, but it's so much better than if you were to just, okay, this post is going to be

about three lessons about something in the business. But is that actually helpful? It's not just about writing. It's about when the client reads this post, like their prospects, will they get value from this? Will they be able to trust us? So that's the main core of what we're trying to do. I like it. And I'm a big fan also of when someone is not Celsius or too pushy. like when something lands into your DMs, it often makes me wonder, oh my God, what is this? And as I can see on your profile that you worked with more than 100 satisfied clients, but behind these satisfied clients, I'm sure that there are like some, I don't want to say, unsatisfied, but, you know, there are always challenges or something that hasn't worked out.

So can you think of like any examples where maybe you struggled, it did a workout or, you know, any challenges that you would be willing to share? Yeah, of course. Only thing. So working with people is always tricky, no matter what industry you're in. So as I said, I've worked in different industries. People are very interesting to deal with. There are some cases where there's issues or problems or misunderstandings that's always

going to happen. I'm not going to be fake on here and say, everything is perfect. No, there's ups and downs. So, yeah, as I said, working with clients is sometimes tricky. really it really means that you have to understand what they want, but also it's very tricky to get clients to understand what is working on LinkedIn and what's not. So that means if they want to post a specific content, and I can clearly see that it's not going to work on LinkedIn, and it's telling them, look, what you're writing, this is, the hook is not there. The formatting

is all over the place. You're sending me professional photos with your entire team for months now. I can't help you, you know? So I always struggle with that. I really do because us, you know, you really need to get the client to understand that what you're doing is working and them to agree. Because otherwise, it's really, really hard. And as I even said in the beginning, when I used to work for this one specific client for seven days a week, that's when I started to understand that it's not about frequency, it's about quality of the content. So I was showing up every day Every day I'll stop for seven months

And I was like This is okay but I'm getting burnt out And worse than that is you're exhausting your content So you're showing up every day You're talking about similar topics It's really hard to make sure that works Because for me I personally really I guess value posting

Like shorter content three times maybe a week And that's it rather than seven days. So that specific client really wanted every day, thought that that was going to work. We told them every time, it's not working. Let's change. No, no, no. Okay. And then we have to cut the collaboration because I couldn't keep going and our team couldn't keep going if they didn't understand what was working.

Yeah, it's a good point because it reminds me, for example, I can often see some profiles of like higher ranked people, for example, founders or some entrepreneurship. And when you look at their posts, you can see that they post every day or even with higher frequency. And now I don't want to offend or disrespect anyone. But those posts are like extremely low quality with very low engagement as well. Because not going to lie, I wouldn't engage with such content. But it often makes me wonder, why don't you post, as you said, for example, three times per week, something of higher quality? because I think it doesn't even help with the first impression when you see someone with such a content on their profile.

Yeah, I'm going to be a major hater on this, and I'm going to be honest, I hate that kind of content. And specifically, I remember once there was this one, I'm not going to out them, I'm not going to flame everyone, this one person actually, but they had a huge amount of following. And I was like, okay, let me follow them, let me connect with them. And then I started to notice that,

because one of my clients wanted to do engagement quads at that time, I don't do them anymore. I'm very happy about that. And they were on there. And I was like, so basically their content is, the entire thing is an engagement pot. Their entire post is an engagement pot. And the following was insane. I was like, okay, like right now I have what, 21K, I believe.

They had like a lot, like 136. And they got the same amount of likes and comments as I do now. And I was like, what's going on? There should be more. And this one time, I was on my LinkedIn doing them work. I get this message from them. And I see this message. And it was the worst message I have ever read in my life.

Maybe you want to shut down the laptop. But it was like, hey, so I'm having this masterclass, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So are you not interested in growing on LinkedIn? You're really trying to manipulate me here, aren't you? It's not going to work. And they're off free. they're offering these master classes and I'm like, look,

maybe they can work for people with bigger creators but you're offering these master classes to people who have 4K, it's not the same. And speaking of one issue that I also encountered with one specific client is they want to have a master class and they took this program from someone else.

And I looked at it and I was like, look, you're teaching something for 15 minutes and then you're selling for 35. I was there in the master class. I was online. Do you know what happened? Disaster. It was disastrous.

It was like the first 15 minutes while she was talking everything was great. When she started selling, everybody left. And she was there for 35 minutes or something selling. I was like, make it stop. Please make it stop because, yeah,

I broke down. And I told that client afterwards, like, let us change it. And then we did change it. And I saw an incredible change where I was like, let's just talk about something valuable. Let's make sure we have questions every now and then. Let's make sure we're talking with the audience and not just talking to them, but talking with. And there was

some interest, but of course, there was the selling again and just things weren't in the right way. But that program that that client used, we didn't approve it and it actually ended up damaging the brand more than it helped it. Yeah, it was both funny and sad to listen to. I was about to add that when you mentioned that the person has or had way more followers than you, but the engagement, whether it comes to likes or comments, was same or similar. I think what's also a good thing to point out is then when you look at the comments, you can see the difference of those profiles with higher following,

that those comments are literally like, you know, so less artificial. Always. So boring. But then if you've got like a creator who's got, lower following, but similar comments or something like that. You can see that's actually the real people and they are having the conversation. So there is some truth to saying or when people post about that engagement matters, that that's how you build a relationship, how you get to know others.

So that was just a great point. And this is like one of the things that you just can see in the comments when you come to comment on someone else's post. It's so clear. It's so clear. It's funny to me because when I see comments like, This is incredibly valuable. Thank you for this.

It was so great. I really, I really liked the rally. I think people will save this. Okay, save it. That's incredible perspective. Incredible perspective. Really great work.

I'm like, can you not talk about something else? So that's one thing I'm going to add really quickly is the engagement in common strategy. When people comment, just the most boring stuff, I'm not blaming everyone. Even I can be boring with comments sometimes. But if you're just saying,

oh, this is really great, Katie, thank you. What can I answer to that? Honestly, when I comment, I go, like, I'm crazy. Okay, when I comment, I don't even think about the post sometimes.

I think, I look at a picture. I see a dog. I'm like, puppy. Do you read the puppy? Like, it's just, whatever comes to my mind, I do that. And I get actually great,

like, back and forth with that specific creator because it doesn't always have to be about the content. It can be about the community and the people and just being here and just being friends. It's simple. I agree. And I think people should try to put themselves into the shoes of the other person. Because for example, when I reply to my comments, and as you said, great post, insightful perspective. And then there is one comment that, for example, mentions, I don't know, one line, even if it's like grammatically, incorrect, but I can see that it's authentic.

It makes me laugh or something. It just makes me remember. It's one comment out of 10 and it stands out. And you just don't have to overthink. You just write what's on your mind, be authentic and have so fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's much easier that way. Just be like, okay, this is what you wrote genuinely.

So I'm going to respond genuinely instead of very insightful. What can I ask you to that? Thanks. And that's it. I move on. Oh, it's funny. And as we've been talking about the clients, have you got like a dream client, maybe a company or a person or someone that you would for some reason want to work with? I'm not sure. I would just like to work with good clients with people that have really passion for what they're doing, what they're building, somebody who's passionate.

It doesn't, I mean, dream clients, of course, I don't know, bigger companies perhaps, but it doesn't mean that just. because they're a bigger company that it's going to make it better for me. I just basically value what each client wants to achieve and if I can help them to achieve it, I'm happy. Yeah, that makes sense. And when it comes to tools that you use, obviously, AI is a big topic. What role does AI play in your workflow or what tools you use or have you got any recommendations?

Yeah, so I specifically, for example, when it comes to writing the post or something like that, I do get a little bit of help from Chad GPT to understand the specifics of that industry because I'm not, you know, I'm not all knowing. I do not know what every industry is. So I definitely learn and research a lot from Chad GPT. But yeah, I specifically, I tend to not use it as much because I really believe in that when I write downpost, like the post I wrote today, for example, I wrote it without anything. I just sat down. But I got AI in my mind. That's why I call it.

It's like you understand the formatting. You understand what the hook's going to be. You got illistical arrows, numbers, whatever it is, and a strong call to action. So to me, AI can enhance. But if you're expecting to write everything for you, I really find it hard to do that because it still sounds like AI. But definitely a big help. Without AI, I mean, it's going to be really hard. And do you like any other?

maybe more focused tools when it comes to designing or any type of content outside. Have you got any preferences? Or for graphics, maybe for infographics, I always go towards Canva. I really like it. It's very easy to work on. I used to use Adobe before, but right now it's just Canva for me. Yeah, I've got some editing tools for videos like Capcut. It's very simple, of course. But other than that, we don't necessarily use anything more.

I would consider it, to be honest, but yeah, I just need to see how it works and everything like that. Yeah. And especially with your design background, I was curious to hear what you're going to say, like if you're team Canva or team Adobe or maybe even something different. Mix. I also sometimes very rarely, but I use sketchbook pro. I know it's funny, but I like it. I'm not going to lie. I never use it. I might need to have a look. Yeah, it's really simple. It's like for drawing because I used to draw before. So I was like, I find it easier to sometimes edit something on there. But Canva canva all the way.

Yeah, I'm the same team. And you mentioned it, Katie, in the beginning. And I was actually about to ask you as well that you published books, which when I found out, I found it quite impressive. So can you tell us more about it? Like, what are the books? Why did you actually publish? if people can buy it and trade it. Oh, wow.

I haven't talked about the books in a long while. Daniel Lee caught on guard. Well, yeah, so, yeah, no, I'm all for it. I'm all for it, honestly. The reason, well, the books are basically, the first one was a philosophy. So back in the day, I think three, four years ago, I used to really be into stoicism

and Chinese philosophy, Taoism. and I used to practice it every day and just really live that lifestyle. But every once in a while, I would be like maybe this isn't working or something's off. So the main core of the book, the first one that I wrote is called Seisto philosophy. And I wrote it because it was going to be more practical about how to live your life, but specifically with lessons I've learned from my life and how you can find philosophy in your everyday surroundings. So I don't believe that philosophy is something you have to read. You can literally look at a river and get a message from that if you know how to tune your mind to it.

So that was the first one. I've got a lot of books in the works. I finished one by having published it. This is a really interesting one. It's a fantasy book, but it's about finding temples and Antarctica. Oh, wow. Yeah. So have you got like even plans to continue publishing later?

on and be more like of a writer? Yeah, I would love to. I was, so the philosophy one I'm actually going to publish in Macedonian this year.

I just have to get that sorted. It is published online in English. You can't write if you want. I'm not sure where the link was if I find it. I'll send it to you. But yeah, for in the future,

I would like to think that I can and will write even more. But that's definitely really time consuming for me and it's really just I'm already working as it is now so I'm just trying to balance everything so I'll see about that we just discuss the age of burnout and how busy you are and writing books on top of it I cannot imagine yeah it's a lot but I always think that if you have an idea it's better to not wait and to just do it or start doing it because if you wait for the perfect time there's never going to be perfect time

yeah it's why it's true and speaking of stoicism have you right or Are you fan of Marcus or others or Ryan Holiday? That's my boy. That's my boy. I love Marcus. I love him. Oh my God. Yeah, I actually used to remember like passages from that book, from meditations.

And I still reread it every once in a while. I really believe that stoicism, you have to learn it. Like, you have to really think how Marcus thought. Because if you don't, you're going to basically feel nothing. Because it's not about you losing feelings or not feeling. I'm pretty sure you've seen those TikToks and edits of like stoic quotes and people trying to explain philosophy. And that's okay. But what I actually realized with stoicism specifically, it's that you have to be fearless.

You can't have fear because even fearing failure makes you basically fearful. And that's what Marcus is against. So you had this one specific scene where he was talking about this very rich man boarding this boat. And he had all his belongings with it. And then the book crashes. He loses everything. And he's basically starting from zero again. So he's really about don't fear what you've lost.

Think about what you can gain. And don't have fear. I really struggled with seeing on TikTok like the stoic ones where it's just about the gym, going to the gym. If you don't go, you're weak. And it's like, so you basically fear being weak. That's weakness in itself. So you have to be.

really attune to that specific message, to not fear whatever it happens, even if you're at a disadvantage, you have your own brain, your own thoughts. That's the only thing you can command, everything else you can build on it. I always like and try to remind myself what Ryan Huyde says a lot, which is amorphati to love the fate, basically anything that life chose at you, be great of for that and you know just see it as opportunity to improve and keep going with that even if

it's something bad or something unfortunate to try to see something positive in it and one of my questions that I always like to ask people are book recommendations so what will be your recommendation whether it will be meditations or even something outside

I haven't read in a long while so really not sure about that one but definitely meditation That's one that you can always go back to and it applies to literally everything in your life. It's very useful. So I think I will recommend meditations because nothing else is coming to mind. Or maybe your own book. Perhaps I mean if you're willing.

Yeah, I'll send a link. I'll send a link. Yeah. And before we finish, I always also like to ask some lighter questions. And so Katie, what is it that you enjoy doing in your free time or what are your hobbies. That's really funny because I just got the worst images in my brains like what are you doing every time just chill. No I what do I like? I have cats I take care of my cats. I play with my cats. I play hide and seek with them. Don't know if that counts as a hobby. No it does. I'm a big

fan of cats. I wish I had seen as well I do. You've got cats? You don't get cats? No I mean we have kids with my parents but not where I live. But I like them. I think they are super funny and super cute as well. We usually get a cat. Cats with a cat's with a crazy love cats. If I could own even bigger cats like I'm talking about, I don't know, tigers or something, I would do it. But it's not legal. Other than that, gym, of course, I love going to gym. But that's a love and hate relationship. Sometimes I hate it. I used to like doing archery a lot. But I don't do it now because I don't have the equipment. Other than that, reading, I like doing creative things. So sometimes art, drawing, things like that. Definitely like traveling, but not so much now.

I'm very homebound. So other than that, I can't think of anything. And as we discussed in the beginning, do you play games? Because when he spoke about Assassin, is it something that you still play or not anymore? I don't have my PS anymore. It broke down, so I need to buy the other one. I think I overheated it, okay, because I was playing so much. I remember Assasters Creed Origins, my favorite one.

At the beginning, I used to be at home for days. I would not get out. I would be like, yes, I am Bayakov Siwa. I am doing missions. And that really, that was great. I love that. It was an amazing experience, but honestly, I couldn't sit for days on end because I had work. So actually, one of the funny things that I realized about me is that it gives me

passion and energy for the day ahead. So I used to play it at 6 a.m. It's a 7 a.m. or just like 30 minutes. So it gives me a boost of energy. Because I was like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. So I love that game. But I also love Minecrafts. I know.

Oh, okay, okay. I've never been much into it, but I know lately there's been a lot of hype because of the movie. Hi. Yeah, I haven't seen the movie. No, I just like building stuff. I like building stuff. And also, I don't know if you've heard of age of mythology, really like that one.

I remember age of empires. So I think it's something similar. Similar. It's similar. Yeah. Age of mythology is similar. And then Stronghold Crusader. That's pretty old one.

Yeah. Because I used to have PS2 when I was younger. And it's been such a long time, but I think I remember some of those gates. I wasn't expecting such a sense of nostalgia. So Katie. Can you please summarize where people can find you, follow you, and promote any of your services? Well, so you can find me on LinkedIn as Ketisashel. Otherwise, you can find it on our website, which is www.w.w.crafcggrow.com.

And that's probably the easiest. And then the final question, or is there anything that I should have asked you and did not, or any final piece of message or advice you would like to share before we finish? I believe we've covered a lot of topics to be honest so a lot of messages there I hope a lot of value and yeah just if I had one message it's be as unique as you can on LinkedIn or wherever you can as your personal brand and you'll be fine, you'll be good and you'll grow.

I like it. I can only agree. I want to say a big thank you Katie. It was great to meet you outside of LinkedIn. I really like the way you show up your content so keep doing the great work. Of course thank you very much for joining me and I will keep following and support them. So thank you. Thank you, Thomas as well and likewise everything you said right back at you. Thanks for listening to Produce By with Tomey. Check the show notes for all the links and don't forget to subscribe, like and share your feedback. Speak soon.