Produced By - Harnessing Disruptive Influence: Lessons in Speaking and Podcasting | #84: Jeff Abracen

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Jeff Abracen is a seasoned Creative Communication Consultant and podcast host with a deep commitment to turning speakers into confident storytellers. With over 18 years of experience in the agency world, he’s delivered more than 2,000 presentations to some of the world’s biggest brands, driving over $100 million in investments through his engaging, impactful pitches. Now, Jeff’s mission is to help individuals and teams become the best presenters in the room, combining creativity with strategy to leave a lasting impression. In this episode, Jeff brings his expertise as the host of Disruptive Influence, where he connects with bold thinkers disrupting their industries. Tune in to explore the essentials of public speaking mastery, learn how to make pitches that win, and find inspiration in embracing your unique voice to fuel both personal and professional growth. Connect with Jeff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffabracen/ Disruptive Influence podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2303181 Connect with Tommen: LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Podcast: Links: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Support: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Produced (email newsletter): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/ More: Trailblazed (marketing agency): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Epixtory (podcasting agency): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.epixtory.digital/⁠⁠  Produced (LinkedIn newsletter): ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Produced By with Tommen is your weekly dose of inspiration where ambition meets creativity. Join us as we dive into the journeys of content creators, entrepreneurs, and other remarkable individuals who break barriers and redefine success. Each episode shares unique stories, challenges, and triumphs. From heartfelt struggles to incredible successes, these conversations will motivate you to push beyond your limits and chase your own dreams. Whether you're on a creative path or just love great stories, tune in and become part of a community that constantly strives to push the boundaries. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Reality, it's the fear of judgment. It's the fear of failure. It's the fear of that second voice in your head trying to stop you. So your brain's always only looking for safety and threat. You need to put in the right reps to know. You've seen the post. I say the right reps reap rewards. You need to put in the right reps to start feeling comfortable and convincing your brain and body that this is safe. channel the things you know, channel your personality, channel all the things that make you you, and this is the day of you, this is the day of personal branding, channel all the things you know,

focus on the one person, focus on delivering value, focus like we said before, I'm being present and giving someone a present. Stop focusing on, I'm so nervous, what's going to happen. Sometimes it helps people to go down that road

of what's the worst that can happen. Yeah. and they find out it's not so bad. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you.

Hello, Jeff. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thanks, Thomas. It's so fun to finally meet you. We've been DMing for months now, supporting each other's content for months now. So, so happy to see you in person.

I wish I could say, as you said, great to see you in person, but at least virtually. It's not like physically, but maybe one day, although we're both on the different sides of the planet. But yeah, it's great to see you. It's not a very far plane ride from Montreal to the UK and vice versa. So maybe one day we'll make that happen. Yeah, yeah. Live podcasting. Yeah.

And Jeff, for those who don't know, can you please introduce yourself? What can I say? I'm an ex-VP creative director now focused on communication coaching, helping people to communicate with confidence. I'm a pitch consultant. And what I realized even the other day, you know the saying, it's not about what you say. It's about how you say it. I believe it's about what you say and how you say it. So I help people with the what and the how How. Mm-hmm. And you're also a podcaster.

You haven't mentioned it. That's right. I think I take it so for granted. I started podcasting. Basically, a year ago this week is when I got the equipment together, recorded my first trial show, recorded my first real show. I launched in January. It's called disruptive influence.

And the premise is that I talk to brilliant minds who are disrupting and influencing their industry in their way. and the inspiration for the name came from my high school report cards that said disruptive influence in class. So I made good use of a sign that was there for many years now. And like I like to say, I was also an honor roll student. So it's kind of this typical thing that you see where the student gets a little bit either bored or distracted in class. but they're paying attention, but they're doing their homework. Yeah, yeah.

There are probably labels for that. There definitely are. And like I said, on a recent episode, I said, sorry to anyone who I actually disrupted and caused them to get any lower grades, but I brought a lot of entertainment value. So there's that. But I was about to say that I actually like the name, because, you know, it's quite difficult or a big decision to come up with the name,

because obviously that's something that's, you don't know, need to keep forever, but we're important decisions. So I think this disruptive influence on great. And why it made sense for me is that, yes, the word disruptive disruption might be a little bit overused. But when you look at all the industries, when you look at the advertising, when you look at the even AI, when you look at new social media platforms, et cetera, et etc. They come in and disrupt. There's always some angle of disruption of shaking things up. And then it usually influences the future. So you even go back to the early 2006-ish when Apple launched the iPhone and they disrupted everything by saying a phone without a keyboard. What?

So that shook everything up. And then it influenced everything that came after it. So even my theme song or my theme music, it's not a song, there's no lyrics, but even my opening theme music when I was brainstorming with the brilliant artist Stephen Voice, I wanted a little bit of chaos in the beginning. So first it was actually the inspiration was radar. Because people who are going to change the world, they're paying attention. They're scanning for signals. So you hear boop, boop. it's indicative of radar. Then we hone in on the thing we want to disrupt.

So there's some energy. There's some explosiveness to it. And then it calms down. So that is what I think I'm trying to get out of the people I talk to. I'm trying to talk to people who have shaken things up, who have caused a bit of a stir that has influenced things going forward. Yeah. I love that you've got it.

thought through and all behind it, so I will need to have a listen again and see what you said in. It sounds great. And as we are talking about it, obviously, this is probably the question that many people ask you, but I would regret not to ask you. But why did you actually decide to make a podcast or what was like the moment when you decided I'm going for it? So the fact that we are a half an hour after our start time is an indication because we were chatting off record a half an hour. So number one, I love talking to people. And I think we could

chat even longer. I think so too. I think we could probably go all day. So I've honed in on my ability to build rapport very quickly. I've always had that skill and I've always always had massive curiosity. And I've always been inspired that people who have done stuff in the world, they have come up with an idea, they've pursued a passion, they have put or they've found the discipline to put things in action to accomplish and create something. I've always been really inspired by that. At the agency I was at for over eight years as VP creative director, we got to the point where we started saying, let's let's market ourselves a little bit more. Let's start kind of educating our team, educating the market about it.

us. So I came up with this idea. We had this Monday morning all staff now virtual meeting. The, the agency became virtual as of 2020. We held on to the office for a few years, et cetera, et cetera. We would have, this meeting used to be in person. So we would have this Monday morning meeting. And I said, wouldn't it be cool if I did a live Q&A with some of our clients or some big marketing types in the world? And I started off. really high with Sir Martin Sorrell, who is one of the most legendary, controversial and legendary ad people, ad leaders, ad industry leaders in the entire world. And how that came to be, I was watching a virtual conference and he was a speaker or he was getting interviewed. And at the end,

he dropped his email and he said, I'd love to know if anyone's listening. So email me. Here's my email, let me know you were listening. So I email him. I say, I think the subject line was something like someone was listening. And I said, hey, you know, I mentioned the interview. I mentioned the conference. I mentioned the email. I said, would you like to come to talk to our agency? And he's legendary for very short replies. He said, love to. So, you know, we worked it out. I got, I got put in touch with this is a system, we made that happen. But the point being, that's, that's the how. But the why was to bring conversation,

enlightenment, learning, some energy to the week, to the month, to the year at our agency. Repurpose that content a little bit. But also connect with some of our clients. So we had some of our CMO clients come in and talk. And the cool part was I would gather, other questions from the team. I would organize them and cue them to ask their questions live as well. So it was it was something that I enjoyed doing. I saw that the conversations were

flowing. I saw that I had the ability to string things together to be an MC, to be an interview, to be a little bit of a DJ because I got to remix questions. I got to see if if something was already addressed. But I had a similar question. lined up. I got to remove that and I got to ad lib or adapt along the way. So that's how it started. And then

How was the feedback of your company and of your colleagues? It was great. It must have been great refreshment. Yeah, it was great. Everyone really liked the chance to either contribute a question, to be able to talk to someone

that they might not have had a chance to talk to and get question answered, like get a burning question answered, which could benefit the relationship. It could benefit the team. It could benefit everyone who was participating. And it also made our clients or industry figures who came in feel seen as well. So that was the start of it. And then we said, or I was asked, said, Jeff, you got to turn this into a podcast. And I said, really? So took, took the steps, ended up leaving the agency, but taking that. concept with me. And I said, you know what? That would be a good idea. And here we are. So I've

already explained what the premise is, what the why is. It's definitely sits in the marketing and business, maybe a little bit of advertising domain. And again, I'm really inspired by people again who are disrupting and influencing their industry in their way. So then did you listen to Podcasts before, Jeff? So I love that question. I've been hoping people ask me that. I was not a big podcast listener, probably a bigger audio book listener. And it's funny because I would tell myself, well, if people ask me that, what should I say?

Should I go list out some podcasts? And I said, no, authenticity rules, realness rules. And I do listen to some episodes here and there at random. Mostly the ones I listen to are to prepare for a guest. So I will find the podcast that they guested on. I will listen to that conversation. But I'm actually not a massive podcast consumer. And I'm okay with that.

So just the message is if you want to start a podcast, if you want to do something that other people are doing or there's a big industry around, you don't have to be the biggest consumer. If you're passionate about it, If you are gifted with the skill to do whatever it is you're doing, if you have professional interest in it, you can learn. And sometimes the danger of over-listening is you might model yourself too much after what you're listening to or what you're influenced by. And then it

becomes the same thing. Now, is mine so different? Maybe, maybe not. I have my teaser at the opening. I have a little bit of music. I have a little opener. We have the episode and I ask you to like and subscribe. So the format isn't too out there, but people will either come for me because they like the way I ask questions, but more for the guests. You know, I want to be the forgettable one in the episode. It's all about the guest. So people will come for the guest and the angle of the questioning or the angle of the information. And again, I'm usually. looking for the disruptive and influential thing they've done. Yeah.

I like what you just mentioned, because from my own experience, when I was starting the podcast, I felt like that maybe I was overthinking a bit, because I'm probably the opposite of you. I've been listening to podcasts quite a lot, and I still do, maybe way too much. But when I was trying to come up with my podcast, I was like, how am I going to start? Is there going to be at? How am I going to end the episode? And because I listened too many podcasts, I didn't know which one to follow, which one to pick, where to get inspired. So actually, if I was maybe in your scenario, it would be much easier and I wasn't overthinking.

So I think the message that you shared is something that I would recommend people as well. Don't overthink it. You don't need to follow any formula or recipe or this person or that person who can make it unique to yourself. And just start and you can always adjust along the way. And that's the key. Right. Most people are podcasting. Aside from if there's a business purpose, most people are podcasting because of a personal brand. So make it personal to you. You should be your number one fan and number one listener. That's the first thing. People I've interviewed, myself included, there's a selfish component to it. I want that information for myself. I want to talk to those people. And it is amazing what happens when you put. a microphone on your desk and you send someone a DM or an email and ask them to come have a recorded conversation. And sometimes it's people who charge 1,500, 15,000 U.S. for one hour of their time.

And there's just such pleasure for them to come sit down and have a conversation because there is a, I would say, a lifetime value to that, right? One conversation, listen to 100 times, a thousand times, there's an exponential value that happens, happens with that conversation. It's not fleeting. It's not ephemeral. It's, it's there for life. Assuming you're paying your podcast, your podcast propagator, propagator fees. So yeah, definitely keep it personalized. I'm getting a little bit influenced now by some upcoming guests who are real podcast pros, big audiences, making money, etc. I was looking at their formats and they, I cut in one quote at the beginning.

One one cool teaser quote that will pull you into the episode. They'll cut four or five. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang in a row. And it could be from the different formats. I need to compare audio and video. People treat a lot differently. But what I also liked is after the little intro, which this person happens having an ad or they'll appeal for the like the subscribe up front there'll be a quick ad up front bang it goes right into the middle

of conversation right after that so all of my episodes say hey how you doing tell me about yourself these sorts of things there's always a little bit of an intro i'm very tempted going forward to just cut right into the conversation after after a little preamble because people don't have time the guest is introduced in the show notes anyway the guest is introduced in my lincoln post, you want to learn about the person or the basics, just read the show notes or Google them. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see how that goes.

I'm very tempted again to save people a little bit of time and jump into the goodies right away. Yeah. But I think you rest a great point. But at the same time, I feel like that you never know if people actually read the notes, because sometimes they just put it on, don't have time. maybe they don't even know that it's in show notes. And at the same time, as you said, sometimes you are excited kind of to rush to main idea of the podcast or the main expertise or something.

But for example, if I'm someone who's never seen you, doesn't know anything about you. I'm also curious to know about your background. So this is also something that I've been thinking about how to structure my episode if I should ask you this or that or jump straight into it. Sometimes it can be handled in the question. And all I'm trying to say is if you're looking to shake things up, maybe it doesn't have to be. Hey, Thomas, how are you doing? Nice to see you again.

Tell us about who you are. It might just be like, Thomas, you're an expert podcaster. How do you do it? Like the littlest sentence, you're an author, you're a keynote speaker. You do you do X, Y, Z. You're changing the game in this. How did you do that? Like, boom, the credibility is right there.

Yeah, but I think in the end, it's probably something that. that makes your podcast just unique because some people ask it, some people don't ask it. So if someone prefers this way, they may listen to you. If they don't prefer it, they may listen to someone else. That's it. And the thing is, you have to ask yourself, like, is there a formula that you want to follow? So there's a certain expectation set for your brand and your way? Or do you leave room for experimentation and evolution?

I think you should leave room for experimentation. and evolution. I even listen now to just my intro track and outro track of a voice track of me saying, hey, welcome to disruptive influence. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's go.

I recorded that in one take and shipped it off. Now I'm already like, okay, maybe I could sound a little bit different, say it a little bit different, but now it's the signature. So the bottom line, get started, experiment along the way,

be your number one fan and make, make it true to you. you make it true to you make it interesting do what your taste and sensibilities say you can take some influence from around the world some people i know look at their stats with intent so one person i know his podcasts are no longer than 22 minutes or 25 minutes something like that because the stats showed him there was major drop off around the 20 minute point when his podcasts were longer yeah now you can't necessarily make that assumption for all podcasts because maybe the conversation in his flow was just dropping there.

Maybe the energy was lower. So it's a case by case thing. But that sort of data spread out over enough podcasts and enough samples or enough examples might start telling you a story. I like the 45 minute to one hour part. I just think it feels right to. to squeeze in enough information that leaves people, that leaves people wanting more,

but lets people learn a lot. And there's an opportunity to build a relationship. And I'll tell you, I have to usually cut it. Like, I see there's five minutes left. I usually have to cut it. I want to go another hour, half hour for the most part. I agree and I'm glad to hear it.

I'm glad to speak with someone who experienced that as well. Because I feel the same. I think that 45 minutes to one hour is like a golden ratio. I know there are some, as we, for example, discussed before Joe Rogan, some podcasts that take literally hours or even shorter. So in the end, it's literally up to you. I'll just cut in on that one. People think attention span is dead. However, three-hour movies still come out.

Three-hour podcasts still come out. So the bottom line is if you are interesting to the people who are interested, they're going to stick around. That's really the bottom line. If you deliver something that's worth sticking around for, people are going to stick around and you do not have to please everyone. And for one hour, two hour plus podcast, when I listen to them, I listen to them in sections. That's okay too. and pro tip, I think I never listen at 1X. It's always at least 1.25 or something like that,

depending on the speed and cadence of the speaker and the topic, it's usually 1.2, 1.25 depending on the player. Save me a little bit of time. Yeah. And as we just discussed it, there is actually this podcast that came to my mind. It's called Acquired. I cannot now remember the names of two hosts. It's a podcast where they basically discuss the successful companies.

And that podcast sometimes the episodes are literary in span of hours, maybe like even four hours or longer. But it's like one of the most or like a very successful one. So I think it kind of proves the point about the attention span. If it's interesting, it can take literary hours and it's still going to be successful. And that comes with knowing your niche, knowing what your audience might want. I don't even perfectly know what my audience wants. Again, I told you, I'm doing it for me first.

I'm doing it for my sensibilities, my interests, but I'm trying to extract information that's current and relevant and helpful to people. I'm trying to find guests that people really want to listen to. And I'm always trying to ask something that no one else has asked them before. I agree. And I like it. And I think that's what's the most important for you to enjoy it, because obviously, if you don't enjoy it, people are probably not going to enjoy it either. If you're going to be host who is not interested, you know, probably all the time.

The vibe won't be there. Yeah, the vibe won't be there unless you like it. Yeah, primarily. You have to have fun. That's really the bottom line. Have fun with it. I'm trying to laugh as much as possible on the podcast while being intentional, while being intuitive while being articulate and while paying a lot of attention and trying to weave the conversation together and really listening again with intent. Yeah. It reminds me of a post I read recently on LinkedIn. Someone was asking, or maybe I posted something and they replied.

I was saying that I'm trying to improve my interviewing skills because I think it's really important when someone knows how to listen, you know, active listening because sometimes people listen, but do they actually pay the attention? So I think it's one of the most important skills out there. So it's funny. I'll compare it to presentation skills, which I teach a lot of people about presentation skills. And I say there's no presentation, the word. You can't say presentation without present. And that goes twofold for me. You have to be present. You have to be there. You have to be taking in the vibes or the questions or the information your audience is giving you. And it's a present to the audience.

You are giving them a gift of your time, energy, intention, knowledge, vibe, etc. So I always look at it in those two ways. Make sure it's a gift. It's a presence to your audience. Make sure you're present. Yeah, I like it tonight. And I think it's especially relevant when we do the episode. online because obviously it's more challenging than if you are in a person because you think I think so because I think I'm not going to lie I haven't done episodes in person yet but I think if it's in person it's kind of easier to stay present because you just have to it's you and the guest just a few meters away whereas now there may be like some distractions I don't know whether it's from the laptop or outside or

or I don't know anything. But that's my opinion. What do you think? Are you looking to elevate your online presents? Check out Trailblaest, our digital marketing agency. Whether it's standing out on social media, crafting a stunning new website or developing impact visuals, Trailblazed has got your back.

Visit Trailblaest.digital and reach your online potentials a day. I do. So it's funny you say that. As you said that, your resolution started going down on the screen. So I lost eye contact and detail. Now it's coming back a little bit because the software we're recording in. Sometimes, right, it's always giving us a lower res preview, but sometimes it lags a little bit.

So that's already a blocker. Absolutely agree. There's an attraction of notifications, tabs, text messages that can definitely thwart the conversation. And you're also forced to stay in this position. I have to face you. I'm trying to keep like, I'm noticing that my eye glances off. And I think, oh, that's going to look a little strange and look like I'm distracted. So that's a great point you mentioned about there being less distractions available.

And this is definitely a little unnatural, right? Like I just said, we're sitting here. Our lights are set up. I'm looking at you on the screen, but I'm tempted to look at the camera, right? So I actually try to take the browser, shrink it up, like pull it up, shrink it so you're within range of the camera. Because if I'm looking at the camera, I can't see you. You're not going to believe me, but I do literally the same. There you go.

There you go. So that's a way that I wouldn't say fake eye contact to get as close as possible as we can. I'm looking at you in the eye. No, I'm not directly in the camera, but I'm in the vicinity of. So great point. I don't even know how I would do in an in-person one. I mean, I have a lot of experience with in-person presentations and interviews and discussions,

these kind of things. But I would be very curious on my first one to see what happens with the body language of me or the guest. Is there going to be mirroring happening? Is there going to be a position shifting? Sometimes you see those podcasts where like they're looking at each other at like a 180 degree angle, which is crazy unnatural.

It looks like, you know, in sitcoms when people are in a room, but they got to be, they have to face the camera. And they're like, hey, hey, mom, how are you doing? So it's a little bit like that. And then you have the ones that are clearly across the table, which I think is probably my preference. You have probably three cameras, probably have the main and then one on each guest with the beautiful lights and the dark rooms and the soft lighting and the warm or the cool. So yeah, I'd be curious to do it in person one. I agree. And it's funny because like some podcasts came to my mind when you've got like, for example,

five guests and they are sitting next to each other and imagine if one on one end is speaking with the other one on the other end. And it's just weird. It's really strange. Yeah. But I would be curious to try in the future as well. So have you actually got plans to do any podcast in person in the future? Not right now. I actually coach some people on show.

showing up on podcast. I help coach people to prepare for onstage interviews, these types of things. So these are why I'm mentioning preparing people for the fact that it still can be awkward in person. There was someone I was working with a couple weeks ago where they were going to be on stage. And just like the sitcom, they were talking to each other at again, about 180 degrees, but they had to keep themselves open to the audience. So it's going to be unnatural. It's not going to be the same as kind of putting your elbows down and having that coffee. It can be certain setups are like that.

I personally have no plans to, but there is a really beautiful studio not far from home. I'm inspired by people who can either do their own podcast episode just talking, just kind of a thought sharing episode. Have you ever seen people do that or seen episodes or listen to episodes where it's just the host? I'm thinking. I did. Yeah. I listen to a lot of episodes or podcasts even in my native language.

And if it's about the topic that I enjoy that I'm interested in, it's usually maybe not just host saying like how was my day yesterday, but about the specific topic and something that I'm generally interested in. And yeah, I know those episodes. And if it's just something that I'm curious about and interesting, I think that works. So that's one thing I'm pretty impressed by is when people can do their own episode. I got a little off topic there. Where I was going with that is when you see shorts, when you see some teasers, when you see just a really good podcast scene of someone saying something of significance, importance, of interest, as a podcast host, I don't, I purposely don't get to do that often.

I'm usually reacting. Yes, I might interject a little bit of experience, but it's all about the guest. So I'm even thinking for the fun of it to go rent one of those studios, have someone maybe ask me some questions so I can share some content around my points of view on things. It would be a little bit of a different look. And the reason I say I'm so impressed with people who can do their own episode, I don't know that I would sit here with the same energy looking into this and saying,

Hey everyone. So here's what I'm thinking. And like, you know, I'm carrying on the conversation. I love when they're looking a little bit off camera. There's someone you don't even know who asked them questions. If it's a prompter, if it's a robot, it doesn't matter. But the interviewer in some cases, shouldn't matter. I'm just saying it could be fun to go get some personal branding content done in a little bit of a different environment. And for once being the person, just sharing thoughts. insights like we're doing here today. So thanks for the opportunity. I think it will be actually great idea to do like a Q&A. You know, ask people in advance. You then respond to the questions. And I think especially with your experience of someone, you know, with such presentation skills and coaching and this and that, I'm pretty sure that you've got very engaging, you know, speaking and everything. So I think you're just underestimated. I like that Q&A, uh, Q&A suggestion. I've seen it. It reminds me that that could be a really good way of short form content. And I don't know if it's an underestimation, but again, I love the two-wayedness of a conversation.

I love the energy of another person there. So it's a little bit more about that than me sitting here sharing thoughts, if that makes sense. In any case, I will make sure to prepare some spicy questions so that when the opportunity account. There will be some interesting discussions. I love that term spicy by the way. It's amazing.

And as you discussed your experience when it comes to presenting and coaching people, I think like, or I'm sure that speaking publicly is something that a lot of people are afraid of and it's a big challenge, you're not going to lie. So have you always been the person

who is comfortable with this or what's your background with this? I have been. So, yeah. I mean, it doesn't mean I'm perfect at it to this day. It doesn't mean I don't get nervous. It doesn't mean I won't say, um, a few extra times. I've just always enjoyed attention, the stage.

I've always been a showman. So some people are just like that. Where I'm, see, I just said, where I'm going with that is you don't have to be perfect. You have to be yourself. that's number one. So like I teach a P3 philosophy. That's about personality, preparation, and practice. But we start with personality. Let's uncover your presentation personality, your style. It's okay to amplify yourself a bit on a stage, on an interview, on a podcast, these kind of things. Like when we get off this, I'm probably not going to go upstairs and talk to my wife. The same way I'm talking now with you. this type of energy and focus and that sort of thing. But this is still me. It's just dialed up a little bit.

I don't want to call it a performance. I have called it a performance in the past, but I realize we're not performing. We're being our personality or our personal selves, our personal brand, just a little bit dialed up for the occasion. So I've always had facility with it. I've always had a natural flair with it.

If you ask anyone I've ever worked with, they said, you're the storyteller. You're the one who can build, rapport really quickly. You're the one who understands us. You're the one who comes up with ideas, a mile a minute, and can actually make us feel safe and secure in the solution or the creative output or the articulation or the simplifying the complex, etc, et cetera, et cetera, solving our problem. You're the one who makes us feel secure that we can do that. So I've always been proud of that. Now I'm trying to teach other people that.

And people say, oh, charisma and confidence and this and that. When it comes down to it, yes, they say public speaking is the number one fear in the world. That's probably just from the sheer numbers of people they asked, right? Now, I don't like people, people say something like they would rather be at their own funeral than to a talk or something like that. I don't know. I think if a venomous snake was in front of you, let's say, let's say it's not a mortal,

mortal venom. Let's say it's going to wound you. You go wrestle that snake or get up on stage. Yeah. It's like, come on. Come on. Yeah, we're all. We, exactly.

So, so take that with a grain of salt. I think it's just the most common fear. I don't think it's the number one fear. And the reason, being is you can ask anyone because we all communicate. So communication is so key. The reality, it's the fear of judgment. It's the fear of failure. It's the fear of that second voice in your head trying to stop you. So your brain's always only looking for safety and threat. You need to put in

the right reps to know, I like to say, and you've seen the post, I say the right reps reap rewards. You need to put in the right reps to start feeling comfortable and convincing your brain and body that this is safe. Channel the things you know. Channel your personality. You can talk about preparation and more practice another time. But channel all the things that make you, you, and this is the day of you. This is the day of personal branding. Channel all the things you know.

Focus on the one person. focus on delivering value. Focus, like we said before, I'm being present and giving someone a present. Stop focusing on, I'm so nervous, what's going to happen. Sometimes it helps people to go down that road of what's the worst that can happen. They find out it's not so bad. Then they ask themselves, what's the best that can happen? That's a really good place to be.

That's a good question. It's a good question because we're always, again, between safety and threat. And we are negativity or we're biased to negativity because the brain is there to keep you alive and survive. And it's always looking for threats. In this day and age, we don't have the same threats. So now the audience becomes the lion and tiger. Now the fear of failure embarrassment. And now again, now we have social media.

So everyone has a news reporting media device in their pocket. That's aside from the point. but we are over analyzing what's a threat these days. So that's number one. The way you get the charisma, the way you get the confidence is to know your stuff, is to talk about stuff that you actually like, that's in your domain that you have experience with,

is to give yourself the grace that you might not know everything. Give yourself the grace that things might not come out, the way they come out, but people will sense your genuine interest to again be present and to give them a present really helps the reps build confidence knowing what you're talking about builds confidence practicing with someone getting coached etc builds the confidence and you see even the number one stars in the world the number one performers still get nervous but they reframe that nervous into excitement and your body doesn't know the difference so you could say

I'm so nervous. What if? Or you could say, I'm so excited. And here's what will be. And even if you say, what if, that's fine. What if I crush this? There's going to be people lined up to talk to me. I'll probably build my personal brand even more. Probably get more business. So look on the bright side. If it helps you, look on the dark side and know, and you'll see you're probably going to survive it anyway. It's really rarely life or death situation. But again, presence and confidence comes from repetition and convincing yourself that you're safe. You're safe. You're going to be good. And I'll just wrap up on that. There's a lot of times you're going to get in your own head. It'll be an out-of-body experience, the interview, the presentation, you'll come down to earth after.

you might think you flopped here. You might think you thought too long about getting something out. We think a lot faster than when we speak. The audience had no clue what your inner dialogue was, what your heart rate was. Yes, sometimes it gets into your voice. Yes, you're not breathing well enough, that kind of thing. Okay. But they'll still forgive you.

And I put up a post a little while ago that said, you're forgettable and that's a good thing. and the whole point there was to take the pressure off because Thomas, Thomas, how many actual talks or specific people do you remember having been on stage at any conference you've ever been at? I would have to think for a while, but since I would have to think, probably not that many. There you go. So the few that stand out, people might remember. If you're middle of the road or less, all good. You'll get better. No one's going to remember any way. What I try to do is help people be a little bit more memorable, help them break patterns. And again, we'll come full circle here.

I try to help people be disruptive and influential, break patterns and influence the audience. Yeah. The point that I was about to mention was spotlight effect. And I think we think that everyone is looking at us, listening every word, checking every gesture you do on a stage, but the reality, people don't remember as much and don't really care as much as you think. So just don't over-analyze it. That's something that helps me just to keep in mind. And has it worked for you? Yeah, it does, because I'm also one of those people who over-analysis and it's like, what do they think of me and this and that? And then I'm like,

in reality, they don't care as much. So don't be like that. That's it. No one cares. Most people will not want to trade places with you. So that's another way to feel confident. That person in the audience does not want to be up there. They want you to do well. They want to learn from you. Go with that.

I think you'll be okay if you come in with that kind of perspective. And Jeff, from your experience, from speaking and everything, Is there like any, let's say, for a pa or something that didn't go as planned and it's maybe funny when you look at it back and you would be willing to share with us? So there was actually two questions in there. There's the phopas, which will get there,

the things you shouldn't do and then like mishaps. Conference I spoke at, unfortunately didn't have budget for an AV person. So I love having preview slides. Everything was mixed up. I was back there. I got introduced and I was back behind the curtain plugging in wires. I was using keynote plugging in wires to make sure one went to the preview screen, one went to the main screen because in keynote you can split those up.

And literally they were waiting from the introduction to the. So I could have gone out there probably without my slides, but the slides were very interesting. So a lot of times I tell people, you are the star of the show. Your slides are just support. But when it's an audiovisual experience, you want your slides.

You want your slides there. So that was probably the funniest and most recent example. I was crouched over under a bar in the dark, using my iPhone flashlight to find which dongle would go where. And I still needed help. I called someone from the audience who I'd met the day before. I knew they were an AV specialist. I said, can you come help us? And they filled in the gap, right? Like, I think I peaked out from the curtain a couple times. I said, hey, everyone, be right there.

You know, like something like that. Just wait five more minutes. Yeah. So I rolled with it. You know, did I sweat a bit? Sure. Did I get a bit frustrated? Sure. But the show goes on. The faux pas, very simply, don't be boring. Don't stand behind the podium. Work the stage. Come in with open arms. Don't be afraid to pause. If you get nervous, tell everyone, goes,

just say, I'm nervous. Everyone, can we take a breath? Even, like, guide the audience in that way. Again, it all depends on the room and there's certain audiences that might not want to participate in the same way. I'm just saying, have fun with it.

Be yourself. Give yourself grace. things happen. And the number one thing I would say is take away as much text as you can from every single slide from your whole presentation. Your whole presentation should have the most minimal amount of written information as possible. You are the provider of the information. Your presentation is just support to you. Yeah. Case by. case dependent, but if you have too much on a slide, people are not listening to anymore.

They're skipping ahead. So really be aware how much you put up there, how much it's necessary. A few bullet points are okay, but also trigger them to come up as you say the point. Because if you have your three bullet points up there and you're making three points, people are skipping ahead. They know it. So there's also an element of reveal. There's an element of showmanship to when you have an order of slides or information on

them. And I sometimes, of course, it's again, probably case by case, but I feel like when there is a lot of text, sometimes to me it feels like the depression didn't really put much effort into it. It was just a copy and paste the whole paragraph. And I'm like, oh, it's not much of effort. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it's that. So there's, there's that saying. It was some, something along the lines of, if I had had time, I would have written a shorter letter. Yeah, I know it. Right. So it's a good point. So you do make a good point of maybe they didn't put an effort, maybe they ran out of time. It takes a lot of time and thought to get down to simplicity. What is probably the thing that happened is a lot of people are not natural storytellers.

Now, they might be okay to be on stage, but they're not natural storytellers. So they also get into a spot it might be the good use or not of the term the curse of knowledge. So they know so much that they feel like they have to teach so much or they know so much or want to show they know so much that they have problems editing out what is just not necessary. And my point of view on it is especially with the advent of AI, the advent of instant searchability, and instantly finding all the information you can ever ask for in the world,

you need to put your spin, your perspective, your personality, your point of view on things, and come at it with that lens. Otherwise, send the document. Send the search query. So just to recap that, I wouldn't assume they didn't put in a lot of work. I would just say they didn't know where to stop. They didn't know either their topic enough or they knew their topic too well. There's the spectrum on that.

But they just didn't know where to stop and really, really wanted to inform their audience and thought everything was relevant. A good trick for that is write it, write out your thing, copy and paste. Do what you need to do to prepare your slides. But pull out the main line, one line, two lines. very again, try to be as concise as possible. Pull out that line or two, enlarge the image, put that as one line on top of it, and speak to that. If someone needs more information, save your longer deck as a handout and say, hey, I'd love to

email you my deck that has a lot more information for you to read on your own time. This is a performance. Again, in the sense that there's a limited time, there's a limited time, there's a limited amount of information people can take in. And like you were saying before, they can't take it all in anyway. They're probably distracted, not fully paying attention. I think people can only take in about 25% of what you say. And then there's the whole thing about recall, like 50% same day, 25 the next, 10, 10 or 5% within a week.

So again, make it simple. A lot of people talk even about fifth grader level. Make it very simple. make it ingestible and digestible. And ideally, I would say, engaging as well. Oh, 100%. I think you explained it really well. I take it back.

But the point that stayed with me is when these days, like with the rise of AI, I feel like that, for example, as we know, we are present on LinkedIn. You read loads of polls every day. And I think if there is someone who can write in their own language, put their spin of their own personality, it really helps to stand out because with AI, I'm not saying everything is the same, but often, you know, you read it, after some time, you recognize that it's AI, maybe just not even edit it. So I think that these days it may be kind of competitive advantage or something that helps

with the branding. It is. Your humanity is going to be your competitive advantage, your ability to adapt, your experience. No one can take your experience away from you. No one can take your true knowledge away from you. Anyone can memorize. But if you actually come in with your point of view, with your energy, with your vibe, that's going to be a differentiating factor for sure, especially now when you could say,

everyone in the audience can get this information right now. And they can get supplied to them in any voice, any public figure's voice, right? You could say, tell me about this the way Steve Jobs would. But the point is, you're not Steve's job. You're not Steve Job. You, unless you rehearse, and again, personality, unless you rehearse and the right way, infuse your personality into your presentation. And again, we're not always talking about just a stage.

There are presentations you make to clients. There are presentations you make internally. Sometimes they're in person. Sometimes they are virtual. If you don't show that you know your topic, if you don't show that you have perspective on it, again, they could just go search for it themselves and they can have it delivered in any voice they need.

Your differentiating factor is your voice and your way of talking and your way of showing it and your way of showing that you're excited about it. That's a big thing too. Your excitement should match your energy and your words as well. Yeah. And it definitely makes it more. engaging to watch, which again comes back to what we discussed, that one of the most important aspects of recording the podcast is for us to enjoy it.

Exactly. If we are just boring, like, hey, what did you have for breakfast? No one would really like to watch it. I mean, you could tell a really good story about breakfast, right? So again, it's, and the coolest thing about humans and the fact that 80 plus percent of communication is nonverbal. You, so I release my podcast mostly in audio now. You can hear if someone's smiling.

That is one of the coolest things about human senses and human sensibilities and experience. You can actually hear when someone's smiling. So that is a very, that's another tip. Smile on stage. Smile in an interview. It's going to go a long way and it's going to change your mood. and people will feel that. I agree.

It reminds me of this book. I think it was How to Win Friends and Influence People. One of the big takeaways was simply to smile because it positively affects people. And if you smile, what's the word, contagious? That it makes me want to smile as well. It is. And it tricks your brain. And there's even a trick, I don't know if it was from that book, that if you're feeling down,

frustrated this, that literally put a pen or pen. pencil in your mouth, bite down on it to force the smile. But even forcing yourself to smile tricks your brain because it goes, hey, what am I supposed to be happy about? And that's another trick is the attitude of gratitude, gratefulness mindset. If you look for something to be grateful about in that moment, it is like scientifically and physiologically impossible to feel down. there's just something about gratitude that changes absolutely everything and the other thing

I remember from that book Thomas is that I know which one there you go people's names to them is the sweetest sound in any language so I'm always very one of the biggest takeaways for me from that book I remember since the biggest one but I'm not great at that like I'm not I can forget names pretty easily and that sort of thing. I'm not great, Thomas, at interjecting people's names in the conversation, but people absolutely love it. So that's something I can even work on. Real season sales professionals, you'll notice a lot. Notice when you're in a conversation with a real sales professional, how many times, Thomas, they use your name. I will try to check it next time, Jeff. I'm not sure I know.

And just a little point, I would say, try to pronounce their names correctly. Because so many times, I mean, I see it as a joke, as a fun, but people call me Thomas with age. And I've never ever written anywhere, Thomas with age. And people still write it. I'm like, it's not a big deal, but if you see it 1,000 times. So that's actually, actually, so first. of all, how do you like or how should we pronounce your name? It's when it's written.

I don't mind if it's Tom or Thomas or Tomen, which is the nickname I used. Yeah, I've seen that, but pronounced, is it Thomas or is it Thomas? I don't, I don't mind either. Okay. But there's probably a right way. My point is that's a good way to try to remember someone's name. If you say spell that for me. So if you're a visual person, it actually really helps.

if you say, oh, can you spell that for me? That'll give you an impression in your mind, gives you time to practice. Or, you know, you say, hey, I'm Thomas, I'm Thomas. Oh, where's that name from? Like if it's an interesting name or they have an interesting accent, oh, where's that, where's that name from or where are you from? And can you repeat that for me and repeat it back to them? So there's ways to make people feel seen and at the same time, get it right?

Yeah, yeah. And another token, help yourself to remember it. it was more for example on LinkedIn when someone texts you and they see the name on top and literally under they say different things I'm like you get it literally on top it's not a difficulty so that that sometimes you can forgive the mistake sometimes you can forgive the autocomplete that happens other times the devil's in the details and that is the one or two words or three words however many words that people will probably see the most in their own lives. So you're going to spot that misspelling and you're going to lose respect very quickly that they didn't take the moment to spell your name correctly. So that's about being prepared. That's about knowing your audience. That's about respecting your audience. That's about making them feel seen. And like we just talked about, again, people's name to them is the sweetest sound in any language. Get it right. Please.

But I didn't want to sound like someone who too focused on this. I try to see it as a joke or as a fun, but sometimes it's just like, come on, it's not a big thing. But anyway, Jeff, something that we discussed when we started is that us as podcasters, we tend to look at time before we are about to finish. And we're in the same spot, actually.

So I have to ask you a few questions that I kind of ask everyone. which is Jeff where people can follow you, where people can find you, and feel free to promote anything. Oh, well, thanks for that opportunity, actually. Again, this is my first podcast appearance. So again, thanks for having me. Thanks for asking me. That's super cool.

You can find me on LinkedIn slash Jeff Abracin. So J-E-F-F-A-B-R-A-C-E-N. Get it right, people. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes. And just search disruptive. influence and you'll find it you'll find my face there you'll find disruptive influence with jeff abrason on apple podcast on spotify really anywhere you get your podcast um those are really primarily the two places to find me i still need to update my behance with current titles a bit more

portfolio work just from my my creative direction days my twitter's hang hanging in there i haven't posted in years but it's still there so there's a few things out there that I need to update. But those are the primary two places. And I'm actually hoping to post some podcast clips to YouTube shorts soon to start getting that out in that way. Sounds like a great idea. And I would tell people to, as a podcaster as well, support Jeff. Feel free to share his episodes, comment, because that's what we appreciate as podcasters.

And engagement, it helps us to spread. the word. So please show some support. I think he deserves it. Thank you. Thank you. And before we finish, Jeff, is there any final message or something that you would like to share? I don't know whether it's something important or something I should have asked you until you. I love that question. I ask it sometimes too. My gut answer is probably again that communication is everything. So if you're struggling in any way with communication, confidence, articulation, what your story is, how to tell your story, get some help, get some practice, go watch some really good talks, go watch some podcasts around it, et cetera, et cetera. Because communication

and personality and perspective and these types of human characteristics are going to be really important going forward. That comment might date itself already because even with the advent of AI that you can recreate your digital avatar, you can train it in your own voice, literal voice, your own way of talking. If we're living in this digital world, like you don't even know that this is me or, you know, right? Like it could, there's a possibility that this could not be me because of how advanced we are.

the ability again to add personality, the ability, again, to be able to improvise and add context and add insight to any situation is going to be very valuable going forward. And the other thing would be, if anyone's listening to this, thinking about podcasting, thinking about doing something, stop thinking, just do it. Podcasting to Google searches, one Google search, one perplexity search, one chat, GBT search is going to show you the steps you need to take. Don't overthink it. Grab your phone.

Grab your phone. Lowest, lowest res. Get on a Zoom. Get on a Gmail call. Pop in your headphones or not. And just press record. That's just number one. Ask someone to have a conversation.

Do not worry about things like title cover art, show notes. Where am I going to post? How am I going to just start? having conversations. Don't do it like I did it. See if you like it. Well, how did you do it? What's your story?

No, I was just because before when I said that I was over analyzing as well about how to do intro, how to do outro, what's going to be the structure? Should I follow this person or that person? So don't be like that. Follow what Jeff said. That's the way. It's just get started, people. Just get started.

And the other aspect I was just touching on is get started to see if you even like it. Don't start investing in all the equipment to capture the best quality. Have a few conversations. See if you like it. See if you're good at it. Get feedback. And see if it's something you actually think you can sustain. And I think the moral of this episode and the moral of the stories, have fun with it and have fun with whatever you're doing. People can tell. I think that's a perfect message to end with Jeff. Thank you so much. I think that we will need to do part two at some point in the future because I really enjoyed it.

And I feel like there is so much stuff that we could continue discussing. I would love that. And again, thanks for giving me the opportunity for the first one. And it's been such a blast again, chatting with you, supporting each other on LinkedIn and getting to know you finally today. It's really nice to have talked to you. So thanks. Keep it up. And you, by the way, are crushing it.

I can't believe the numbers of your podcast. I can't believe how consistent and how sustained you've continued to be with your podcast. So congrats on that. After we press stop, maybe you can give me some tips on getting it onto YouTube and designing the thumbnail and doing all the right things there. So again, thanks, thanks, Thomas. Jeff, you are too kind for me. It was my pleasure. We'll stay in touch.

I will keep supporting and YouTube. Keep up the great work. so thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Produce by With Tomer. Check out show notes for all the links and don't forget to like, subscribe and leave your feedback. Speak soon.