Produced By - Healing Through Breath: Transforming Personal Loss into Lifelong Resilience | #75: Harsha Dharmana

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Harsha Dharmana is a breathwork coach and the founder of SFH Breathwork, dedicated to helping high-achieving Harsha Dharmana is a breathwork coach and the founder of SFH Breathwork, dedicated to helping high-achieving professionals manage stress and enhance their performance through powerful scientifically proven breathing techniques. After building a successful business and experiencing personal loss, Harsha discovered the transformative impact of breathwork on his own life. Now, he leverages his expertise as an Oxygen Advantage Advanced Instructor, XPT Performance Breathing coach, Conscious Connected Breathwork practitioner, and soon-to-be Breath Science specialist to help others achieve greater mental clarity, emotional regulation, and overall well-being. His approach combines practical, science-based methods with a deep understanding of personal challenges. Listen to this episode to be inspired by Harsha's transformative journey, learn the importance of breathwork for a happier life, and get practical tips from a professional breath coach. Connect with Harsha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harshadharmana/ https://www.instagram.com/sfh_breathwork/ SBW Breathwork: https://www.sfhbreathwork.com/ Connect with Tommen: LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠  Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠  X: ⁠https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠  Podcast: Links: ⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠  Website: ⁠https://produced-by-podcast.com/⁠  Support: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠  Produced (email newsletter): ⁠⁠https://produced.beehiiv.com/⁠ More: Trailblazed (marketing agency): ⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠  My SkillShare Course: ⁠https://skl.sh/3Rh7ZtY⁠  Produced (LinkedIn newsletter): ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠⁠  Produced By with Tommen is your weekly dose of inspiration where ambition meets creativity. Join us as we dive into the journeys of content creators, entrepreneurs, and other remarkable individuals who break barriers and redefine success. Each episode shares unique stories, challenges, and triumphs. From heartfelt struggles to incredible successes, these conversations will motivate you to push beyond your limits and chase your own dreams. Whether you're on a creative path or just love great stories, tune in and become part of a community that constantly strives to push the boundaries. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're going a bit deeper then in the same way. Looking at your breathing, you find that your breathing is shallow, it's fast, it's maybe through an open mouth. That's a sign of stress. When we're stressed, experience of life is not positive. You might be feeling more fearful, more restrictive, anxious perhaps, hypervigilant. We're not feeling safe. Our experience of life is going to be negative.

In the other hand, our breathing is slower. deep, it's expansive, this soothes our nervous system. And when we're in this state of a balanced nervous system, and there's a sense of safety within our physiology and within our body, when we can start to be creative, we can start to be joyful, we can start to experience life in a very different way. The key thing here is that you can either breathe without thinking about it and that reflects the state of our nervous system, then actually by taking control of the breath, we can manipulate the nervous system. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button.

Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you. Hello, Harsha. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you, Anne. Thanks so much for inviting me on here. I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure.

I remember Harsha, there was a LinkedIn post before and I commented that your story sounds like that could be adapted into script of the first. film. So if we look at it as a film, we need to start with your background. So can you tell us please more about where we come from, about your background, about your childhood and what was it like growing up? Sure one. I was so kind of me to say that. Although again, I'm not sure. It was a, it's probably sure. Yeah, maybe a maybe some kind of Z-grade drama. But it's, it's so good. Thank you for being so kind. Hey, where does this start?

Okay, so I'm originally from the UK to, I guess, immigrant parents. So my mom was in Indian, my father, an ice surgeon. So he moved to the UK years, 40, 50 years ago. I was born there. And I grew up in a beautiful little town in the north of England called Grimsby. So it was a fun place, you know. Why are you laughing? What is, I don't know, I don't know the place.

So the name itself, people just laugh because the first part. Grimm. And it's actually quite a... Grinsby itself was an old fishing town. Since the decline in the fishing industry, there are parts of the town that have become quite run down. And Sasha Baron Cohen made... Oh my God, I remember.

Yes. It's quite funny what I say from there. I always get that look. Okay, okay. And sorry to interrupt, but out of curiosity, why did he make a film about that specific town? I don't know, do you know what? I haven't even seen the film. Yeah, it's just, I don't know,

just he was just trying to make a parody of working class England. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Grimsu was a perfect lens into that side of the UK. Yeah, I think that's it. Then how did you find it? What was it like growing up in a village? Because I grew up in a village as well, so I guess I can relate, but I would be curious to hear what your experience was like.

Yeah, so look, you know, my parents, Doctor, we lived just outside of the main town, so we weren't really in the thick of it, in a nice area. I went to school 40 minutes outside of Grimsby in the countryside. It was cool. It was free. I wasn't necessarily the greatest academic, even though all my family were academics. I had a good time of school.

You know, I loved playing sports, so I was really sociable, other than actually studying. She just didn't interest me. It's, yeah, I had a happy childhood. I had everything that I could have needed. or wanted from my family, which I'm obviously always grateful for. And back then, did you have idea about what you would want to become in the future, such as your profession? So I think the assurance that is no. There was a lot of pressure.

I guess there are listeners out there that come from a similar background, like from Eastern families or Indian families. I think there's just a pressure, right? I think my parents needed to get out of a country that was relatively poor, better life, the standard immigrant story, but Indians want to do it in a very specific way. And it's either medicine, law, or computer science, you know, the very traditional qualifications and careers. Changed a bit now, I'm sure.

But back then it was still very, very defined. And there was a lot of pressure, right? There's a lot of pressure, like literally, there's no question what do you want to do when you grow up from my parents, it's you will be a doctor it's kind of expected yeah totally expected

I mean my grandfather was a surgeon my sister was a doctor my dad all my cousins and uncles there's a huge percentage in medicine right when you have that drilled in at you from an early age you kind of okay cool yeah alright I'll be a doctor

but then when you start to think about what you or try to think for yourself or what you want to do. You realize it's just, it's not you. And then there comes a point where it's hard to have those conversations, right? It was difficult. Pressure was relentless. So I was kind of like, yeah, cool.

All right, I'll be a doctor. And I was like, fuck you. I'm not going to study. And I actually don't want to be a doctor. And I just rebelled, really. Yeah, yeah. There were levels to how rebellious. I was generally pretty good.

Maybe across the line or a couple of occasions. Probably not stories for here. But in general, I was all right. But I just didn't enjoy. It didn't enjoy stuff. So that took me through, you know, through GCSEs and A levels. And even up to the point of A levels, I did biology chemistry of maths. Again, to satisfy it.

Did you enjoy it or not really? No. I really didn't. I just didn't like studying. I really just didn't. And I went to quite an academic, well, a very academic grammar school where it was.

It's one of the best grammar schools in the country. And, you know, everyone else around me was doing pretty well academically. And I just, I don't know what it was. I don't know whether I just, it was just a struggle to focus

or just a lack of, like, what was the end? What was the point? Right? And I think if it was like, well, the point of studying and getting good grades

is to get into, at a university and a course that you want to do, then maybe I'd have been driven to apply myself more. I was kind of like, well, I don't want to go to study medicine. So what's the point of it all? And then I just think that's going through into just a lack of driving in that sense. So I just enjoyed other stuff. I enjoyed socializing.

Party-to-life. Yeah, I was pretty good at making friends. Yeah, you know. I think when you are like, I think when there isn't, it's easy to lean into that side of life, I think, if there is a lack of focus or there is not a clear intention or goal, which I'm not saying every kid, I mean, a lot of kids probably don't either. But I was surrounded by quite academically driven people in the main. Everyone else is kids in the Indian community or my dad's doctor friends wanted to be doctors. or similar. But I was just like, no, it's just, I'm just, no, it's just not really.

What was then their reaction when they saw that you don't really want to pursue this type of career? Yes, look, it was just, we didn't really have a conversation about it until I just didn't get the grades to get me into medical school. I think it came up, I think I did my first year, and it was just clearly obvious that I just wasn't in the grades, right? To get to medical school. you know, it's highly competitive. And I was nowhere near, for being honest. I can imagine it's tough. It takes years and it must be competitive with a lot of people.

He got his straight A's. It just wasn't going to happen. So then it was like, well, what's the next best thing? You know, it wasn't like, okay, maybe we should give him a bit of space to think about what he really was through his life and come up with his own plan. It was like, well, okay, well, if you're not a doctor, you have to be a computer scientist. I ended up doing, yeah, I ended up getting in through clearing. to a computer science degree at the University of Newcastle.

And I ended up doing that for like three months. And I just realized that I had to stop that stopping that course. And basically I just stopped that course three months in. And I was accepted onto a business management degree. So something that was much more broad. It was just like, I want to be at you. uni, I need to get a degree, so I did a business such a project. And did you do that just for the sake of studying, or did you see future in this direction? No, I think this was still very much,

just a sake of studying for sure. Yeah. I think it was just the thing to do is to just go to uni. And I think my parents were, if they had accepted the fact that I wasn't going to be a doctor, I think saying to them, right, well, I'm not going to get a degree. It would have been a shableness. I had to film. So, you know, you know, it was fun. But again, like, I did enough to get through the guy that would just be in the library for the last six weeks of the term, just cramming. I missed most of the other lectures and just cram at the end just to get my exams.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I went to Newcastle University. I don't know if you went to Newcastle. It's a very fun base. Two big universities in the center of town. And I had a great time. It was fine. So, yeah.

I was expecting, based on your business background, that that will be something that you were passionate about? Or what was then the journey that led you, you know, to the business work that you did? It's an interesting way of looking at it. I like the angle because, you know, I wasn't interested in business at university, but I ended up doing quite well in business place

where in my life. Yeah, look, you got to the end of uni, doing odd jobs at university. in a bar, I worked in a clothes shop. But literally as soon as uni finished, and a few of my mates are like, oh, let's stay for the summer, we'll just work and just, you know, we'll enjoy Newcastle in the summer.

I think I did it for two weeks, and I was just like, like, now, I'm like, if I'm not a beauty, it's just not, I'm not going to work in a clothes shop, I'm not going to work in a bar. I do want something, I want something more. I literally got home on a Friday, I think, and then I was like, right, I want to go to London

I want to go to London I want to get a proper job so I'd be speaking to a few ex-peers I think it was an older guy who I played football with and he was in London so I messaging on a chat and he was like look I'm in recruitment

working for a recruitment company in London told me a bit about job told me about commission and uncacked essential for earnings and I was just like it sounds pretty cool I just researched seven or eight different companies within a specific field. And on the Monday, I just called them all and just said, look, I'll just finish university.

I'm interested in recruitment. Out of the sixth that I called, three call me for interviews the next day. Nice, yeah. So I literally, my sister was living in London, studying medicine. So I was like, sis, I'm coming to sleep on your floor. Intimates tomorrow. Dad, drive me to the station. and I literally chose on the train, went down to London.

I did interviews all that week. At the end of the weekend, I joined London. I was starting. So that started my career in recruitment. So I was basically recruiting technologists into the finance world. I don't know. I just really, really, at that time, that environment just suited me so well. And the job suited me well.

I found a drive that I never thought I had before. I was a young guy. I wanted to make money for sure. I wanted to, more than anything, I think I wanted to prove my family wrong because ultimately it's painted me out as to be a complete failure because I didn't do this and I didn't get great grades or whatever. So I think that was always, that was always there, you know, pushing me and driving me. But then, look, I'm generally good at talking to people. You know, networking is all about being able to communicate and move relationships and I found that I was quite naturally good at that.

So that helped me do quite well in that job at an early age. And do you remember back then when you made this decision, did they accept it, like that you chose different type of career? No, they didn't. No, I don't want to dig that out too much, right? They just don't know. They didn't know what they had no idea what I was doing. But the first company I worked for had offices in Mayfair. So I literally worked just off the corner of Bruton.

Street. Yeah, like fancy area. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I was getting paid peanuts at the time. But look, I was working in his offices. And I think maybe they were like, okay, maybe this is, this is, maybe somewhere, you know, some kind of relatively a career for him to start. So I went down and I did it.

Long story short, I was in London for three years. I moved to a couple of companies in that time. But ended up being a pretty good rookie. You know, I did pretty well in my first few years. and then ended up having an opportunity to go to Hong Kong. It's weird how this happened. I had a really, really good mate, who was my best friend at university, and he moved out to Hong Kong to be a broker.

And he just called me randomly out of the blue and just said, look, harsh. And in Hong Kong, it's amazing, find a way to come. So that planted the seed. And then there was just a lot going on in Asia at the time in the industry that I was recruiting in banking, finance. this f-finance industry. I spoke into my firm and said,

look, you know, I want to go to Hong Kong, blah, blah, blah. And six months later, I ended up there. And sorry, didn't you even see any challenges or obstacles because it's so far away, different culture? No, I think, yeah. It was just no.

It was like, this sounds cool. Oh, I go. Yeah. There was no, I didn't question it. I didn't really have to think twice about it. I was just like, I want to go, let's make it happen. I think this probably sheds the lens into them my slightly impulsive nature at the time,

but I didn't have anything to lose. I did well, I bought a flight in London, just rent that out. No ties, no girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just get out there and make it happen. So, yeah, I worked for the same firm that I worked for in London for a couple of years or about 18 months.

And basically I ended up becoming really good friends. with two other guys in Hong Kong that come out to do the same thing from London my competing firm. We ended up best mates. They became an opportunity to join them in starting a business together. And sorry, before

moving on, what was it like your experience when you moved over? Because obviously it was a different place, culture, people. So did it meet your expectations or were a surprise or what was it like? Immediately. It was like London. It was like London,

like on steroids. It was just amazing. Oh, really? So vibrant. Everything is condensed. So you can literally, you can go to the gym in three minutes. You could be at a restaurant in the next two minutes.

You can be in a bar in the next two. Everything is so close together. And just a community of people, everyone is out there for a reason. Everyone had the exact same mentality. You didn't need to meet 10 people to find one or two people that you connect with. everyone you speak to you connected with straight away. And so the culture and the environment was just amazing.

It was like, honestly, I had the best time there. Oh, I was glad to hear that. Yeah, it was fun. It was really, really fun. People that wanted to just do things and enjoy life and also do well at work. So it's good. And although you live in a different place now, but would you be able to compare what was it like before

and what was it like now in Hong Kong? although I don't want to discuss any political situations I think it's changed a little right as in through the lens of being an expert there right so I think it's very different

for people for Hong Kong for locals I think I have friends most friends that are still living the expert life in Hong Kong and it's you know it still has its vibrancy all the things have changed a little bit but then politically obviously there's been a much bigger shift and I

I think if you are one of who's from Hong Kong, I think maybe life is much more different. So that's all I'm saying. I still love to go back to a super, super cool place, perfect, weird and crazy mix of Western and Eastern life. And it just all comes together in a chaotic, very fun way. So, yeah, Hong Kong will always have a place in my heart, for sure. Yeah, so exciting.

I would love to visit one day as well, but not yet. So then I assume that you were about to set up a company with your mates from Hong Kong. So can you please continue with that? Yeah, look, again, I think I always wanted more. I realized that being an employee, there was limits to that. And especially in that industry where really, if you look good, people just dealt with you because of you are not really the company that you were for. So I think once I had that confidence to be like,

well, I don't really need what they're provided that is too much in terms of what I. I'm taking from the revenue that I'm generating. My two business partners felt the same. A few things happened. I probably don't need to get into it right now, but a few things happened. I had an opportunity to go join their ship, basically, early on. And I jumped at the opportunity.

And over an 11, 12-year period, we did really, really well. With a combination, we all had complementary with different skills. We were all very driven in different ways, and we built a fantastic company. and yeah it was you know from a

you know from a financial perspective you know I did much better than anyone I think I knew would have been

expected of me and even that I really expected myself yeah but it it sounds like you made it

sound easy but I assume that it it wasn't as easy or you know there are always challenges when starting

and running your own business so was it actually easy for you or was it challenging or what? Because as you said the environment sounds like with people, you know,

were motivated, hard working and everything. So what does it like to run in a business in Hong Kong? Good question. It wasn't easy, right? Nothing is easy. And I should get extremely extremely lucky. I think in the early days it was fun. I had a different perspective

on life then. I didn't necessarily think too deeply. And I was just in it. You know, and we were working super hard, making money and enjoying what everything that Hong Kong had to offer at the weekends and holidays. So restaurants, night lives, cool party scene, playing for good football teams, going off on cool little adventures around Asia, you know, from Hong Kong, you can go anywhere. So it was, you know, it was a fun time. You know, things changed, I think. As I was maturing as a person.

The business continued to mature. We grew the team. We were making more and more running. Because of something that happened at the same time that I started the business, which, funnily enough, ended up with me leaving my career in the business and the same light as well. So should we talk about that? Is this a good time to kind of pivot in that direction?

Yeah. If you're comfortable sharing that, I feel free to do so. Literally, I think a year in to start in the business or even leaving less, maybe six months in. Mom's health, there was something weird going on with my mom's health. So this would probably be 12, 13 years ago now.

She was literally like effervescent, super young. I'd be with her in the street shopping. And if I said, hey, mom, what about this? Someone would be like, what, mom? We thought she was either your sister or your girlfriend. She can't be your mom. She looks at her own. She can know bad habits.

He looks after herself. Very vibrant lady. Strong personality. As soon as I got to Hong Kong, she was having a few. She's like, she felt weird. She said, I feel weird. I feel like losing my balance. And we were just like, yeah, whatever?

There was nothing wrong. She started having more and more falls. And it's just progressed. We did some tests. And tragically, devastatingly, she got diagnosed with a very rare neurological disease called MSA. So it's multiple system atrophy. It's, I guess,

similar to Parkinson's, but maybe you could 10x it. It's the progression, the symptoms, I would say more aggressive is from what I saw with my mom. It was obviously a huge blow, but, you know, I questioned what I was doing in Hong Kong,

should I go back? But my parents were like, look, I can't change this. And you being back isn't going to change it either. And actually, my mum was like, what's giving me, like, the small pleasures in my life now, I see you guys do well. And she basically, like, if you finally found something you get at and you're doing well, don't go mess it all up just for me, come back and see me as much as you can, you live your life because I'm going to see a lot of, I'm going to get a lot of pleasure with that. So pretty amazing for her to do that. I continued, I continued my career in Hong Kong,

my life in Hong Kong. I met my wife Jane, had two kids. All throughout this time, I was travelling back three, two, three times a year as much as I could. But when she eventually passed away from the illness, which was degenerative and declining illness, that's when things really started to shift in my mindset. This would have been now, she had a disease about 10 years, so this would have been three and a half years ago. As soon as she passed away, this is a huge amount of reflection. I was just like, look, what am I doing right now? Where I am doing very well financially,

but that's probably the only real positive in this particular career right now, I felt, because I was super stressed. Again, none of this is easy. And I think the more senior I got, it felt like the stakes were getting higher and higher. and that created a lot of pressure so I was super stressed

I was really in that expert lifestyle of work hard play hard at the weekends that was taking its toll I had two little kids who I barely saw never saw them in the mornings I see there maybe 10 minutes at night

if I managed to get back from bedtime weekends I was either hungover or still stressing about work so never really present and I was just like look it's really not worth it you know I've got to a point where I was okay financially

I've never been one to have like crazy expectations on stuff like houses, cars, watches, you know, like, yeah, there's like a, I appreciate things, but I kind of felt that I didn't, like the cost of continuing wasn't worth. Yeah. So I made a decision to leave the business. I gave the boys, my business partners a year's notice, but I was like, look, I'm going to make some. plans to transition out, I need to do something different after what's happened. That was a starting process of a big change in my life and my career. Were your partner's understanding of this decision? Yeah, they were, they were, they were.

I think, you know, we'd been through quite a lot together. We were super close, like best men at each of his wedding, emcees at each other's weddings, you know, we're extremely driven and professional at work. was why we ended up doing so well together. They were understanding, even if it came as a bit of a shock maybe, but we had a huge wrong way to prepare and plan for my departure. In the end, everything was fine. The business at that point wasn't about the person,

and they're extremely, extremely talented at what they do, and they went off to achieve even greater things since my departure, which, you know, I'm always happy for them for that. So, look, that started, you know, my transition out. The same time as my mom was passing, then I had, like, another aspect of my life that I needed to manage, and that was the grieving process. She passed away. I came back to Hong Kong.

Oh, no, I didn't. She passed away. I was away from Jade and the kids, my wife and kids, for about three weeks, doing funerals and spending a great time with family, got back to Hong Kong. just was just like right straight back into work i didn't really give myself any tire still in that mindset of like yeah just you know just life goes on and i have to just i have to just be strong and and carry on but after a few months i was i randomly just stumbled into a documentary on

rimhoff like that infamous documentary now on vice maker magazine if you haven't seen it it's a really good one um an insight into his into his life and i was like this guy i mean he's so charismatic automatic right. I was immediately hooked on him as a person and his journey. I started practicing the breath work. I was like, it's pretty cool. My mood has just changed immediately, but I had like a big shift in my energy when I did it. I was still super competitive, so I was like, wow, you can hold your breath for like three, four minutes, not really understanding like what was actually really going on, which we really get to later. I just got, that was just I started breathwork was Wim Hof.

And so as I was doing this 12-month transition out with the biz, I started practicing just recreation, just practicing a bit of breathwork, Wim Hof's technique. And then when I finally left Hong Kong, we moved to Spain to be closer to England, but not quite England. We weren't ready for that. So we did a two and a half year stint in Spain

where I just took a complete step back from work. I was a full-time dad, spent a lot of time with the kids. and practicing more or more breathwork, learning more and more about it. And it got to a point where I wasn't just knowledge to live up with half, but other modalities of breathwork like the oxygen advantage and some performance reading stuff. And I decided to get certified and teach it. So that was kind of like the start of my breathwork journey.

It's kind of those three things. It's like breathwork, my mom passing, realizing I was burnt out and needed a shift from my career. all kind of came to head at a similarish time and out of that came harshly the breathfoot coach Are you looking to elevate your online presence? Check out Trailblazed, our digital marketing agency. Whether it's standing out on social media,

crafting a stunning new website or developing impact visuals, Trailblazed has got your back. Visit Trailblaest.digital and reach your online potentials a day. And so when you spot Wimhoff the documentary for the first time? Was it literally just a coincidence?

Yeah, I think just, you know, I was just feeling totally shit. It was really low. And I think I was just scrolling on YouTube and I just found the documentary. That was it. Yeah. Well, that's interesting.

I don't remember when I came across Wimhoff for the first time but sometimes you see some opinions that he's, maybe some kind of charlatan or frauds or I don't know. So can you say what's your opinion on this, maybe to people who have this opinion to prove them otherwise? I don't know if I can prove them otherwise, right? Because there is a lot of what he says that just isn't true, unfortunately. And I love Wimhoff.

He's done, right, he's a legend. He's done so much for the world. world. He's made such a big impact. His footprint's huge, right? And some crazy records as well. Amazing. And he's done everything. He's just an incredible human being. Just in terms of like his, his mentality and the stuff that he's just achieved, he's done. It's just incredible. But I'm not against his method either. There are very, there were great benefits to his method. But most people are unaware of what's actually happening in their physiology, in their bodies when they're doing it. And they're not

applying it in the correct way. It can make people, it can actually do more harm with good. I kind of talk about this a lot. Like, I don't like to just, like, I'm not going to sit here and discredit him off. And he's, I said, I love him as a human being

and as a person. But yeah, there's just some of the things that he says about both ice and cold exposure and his breathing technique that are just not true. Do you think he says that, I don't know, that he doesn't realize or on purpose as advertisement? No, I don't. I don't. I don't. I think it's just what he believes and he's just got such huge self-belief through the things he's achieved.

I just think he just thinks that's right. But there's now just so much more research into breathwork and cold exposure. So maybe it's just information that wasn't there at the time to help form his beliefs around what he's teaching. He just hasn't looked at it into maybe that. level of depth. And out of curiosity, did you have a chance to maybe meet with him? No, do you know what? His certification was the one that I wanted to do the first. They stopped the intake. It was when it was to start the craze. Everyone wanted to be a Wimhoff instructor. So I wasn't able to do his certification. Oh, okay. Yeah.

The oxygen advantage. And then it was this certification that I actually learned about what was really happening with, you know, with breathing and their physiology behind it. Yeah, but I would love to meet the guy, of course. Yeah, me too. I heard some people who climbed mountains in just underwear and experience. Exactly. I mean, yeah, yeah, there's so many stories of that. He's helped people achieve some amazing things.

So did you then see this as your new career trajectory, that you want to become a breath coach? Yeah, yeah. And do you know what? because like it had such an impact on me right i i you know it was in that process where um i'd i'd i was experiencing big change you know i'd left everything behind my business the paychecks stopped coming in and friendship groups you know we built like a family in hong over 12 years of the friendships we got to spain where we knew no one i was still grieving

a change to become a full-time dad um you know there's beautiful parts to that, but there's also just a non-glamorous stuff to that as well, you know, running a household. So I was experiencing a lot, and the one thing that got me through that was practicing breathwork in developing practice. So I was just like, shit, this is a thing, like, you know, more people need to know about this. For sure, that's what started it.

And out of curiosity back then in Hong Kong, were there any similar techniques or ways how to cope with stress in business world or people didn't really pay attention to this. I just don't think so. So I think things are changing, right? I think in the last few years, things have changed. And I think we're getting much more open and skillful about talking about these types of issues. We say health issues or mental health issues or whatever. It wasn't.

No, there wasn't. we just go out you just you just work harder and you just go out of the weekends and just get smashed and feel pretty good about it all and that was stress management or you go to a gym every day and do a crossfit workout thinking that that's de-stressing you know but that was the way I was dealing with that

I was like okay I'm fine I did a workout at lunch today I got a few endorphins I feel better for a few minutes it's just masking what was really going on I think a lot of people did that I still think even though we talk about mental health more, I still think it's on a surface level. And the people that really need it the most, I think they still neglect it.

The Western cultures of achievement and success, you know, those lifestyle-led ways of life, I think. I still think taking a step back, you're looking after yourself, if that's at the expense of, of competition and things like that, I think people still are reluctant. I see that. So even though people talk about it more, it's still not really being implemented.

Yeah, I guess that's a good point, yeah. Can we then discuss a breathwork in more detail? Can you, let's say, give us a little introduction, maybe for people who don't know anything about it? Yeah, such a approach. Like a little course. So we have what's called a nervous system. The nervous system is like kind of like,

your computers like background operating system, it controls everything that's happening inside of your body that you don't think about. So it's everything that's outside of your conscious level of the world. So things like your heartbeat, your breathing rate, your digestion, your unity. It's all controlled by this nervous system. And so you can say then that we experience our life through the window of this nervous system. Then our breath is a direct reflection. the state of our nervous system. And if we link those together, then you can say that the breath is a direct reflection

your experience of life itself. The breath's a pretty big thing. If you look at it like that. Yeah, it's a smart way, how to think about it. Going a bit deeper then, in the same way, if we're looking at your breathing, and you find that your breathing is shallow, it's fast,

it's maybe through an over mouth, well, that's a sign of stress. And when we're stressed, our experience of life is not positive. We might be feeling more fearful, more restrictive, anxious perhaps, hypervigilant. We're not feeling safe. So our experience of life is going to be negative. On the other hand, if our breathing is slower, deep, it's expansive, well, this soothes our nervous system. And when we're in this state of a balanced nervous system and there's a sense of safety within our physiology and within our body,

then we can start to be creative, we can start to be joyful. We can start to experience life in a very different way. The key thing here is that we can either breathe without thinking about it and that reflects the state of our nervous system. But then actually by taking control of the breath, we can manipulate. the nervous system. So this is where the breath is super, super powerful because it's not a one-way relationship between the nervous system and the breath. It's a bi-directional relationship. So we can choose a desired state and move into it by taking control of the breath and breathing in a specific way. So if we don't want to move from being stressed and anxious into calm and relax,

we can breathe in a certain way. Or if we're feeling low, fatigued, we've got a low mood. We don't have energy, we can breed in a certain way, it's going to elevate us. Yeah. So, yeah, I hope that was a useful discussion. I think that's something that definitely would be helpful for a lot of people, because obviously everyone gets stressed once in a while, and I assume that it will take longer to expand on this. But can you summarize maybe how to get from that negative experience to the positive one,

thanks to Britain? Sure. There are a few ways that we can do this with the breath. But if we keep things super simple, slowing the breath down and making your exhales longer than your inhales. Let's say for an example, I'll put this into context. Like our general breathing way, some will breathe maybe 14 to 18 times every minute.

And in a stress state, that might increase even more. Okay, that might be from 18 to 22, 24 times. So we can dramatically slow down the breathing to manage that experience of stress. So let's say we breathe in for four seconds and out for six seconds. That will bring our breathing rate down to six breaths per minute. Yeah, exhale longer than the inhale, helps us transition into that calm and relaxed state, what we call the parasimplatic state of nervous system. It's super simple, just breathing in for four,

reading out for six. Yeah, I was just trying to do that. Yeah, and if you were to do that for as little as two minutes, you would see... Did you come down? Yeah. It was definitely great advice, and it's something I'll focus on as well,

because I've known, for example, I tried exercises before as well, but I don't know why I never really paid enough attention to it. So I think this may be good catalyst for me actually to focus on it more as well. So there's kind of like two things. It's like day-to-day breathing. So this is what I would call this,

or we call this functional breathing. So how are you breathing right now? How am I breathing right now? How do you breathe when you're asleep? How do you breathe when you're walking to the gym? How do you breathe at your desk while you're working? All of this has a huge impact on your nervous system. We've just talked about that nervous system health being so important

to our experience of life is self-eye. But before you do any specific tool, like a box breathing or like a cadence breathing that we just did together. You might feel good in that moment and for a few moments after. But then if you go back to breathing poorly, which many, many people do, the stats range, right, anything from 40 to some people say 90% that people just don't read properly, right? That's going to have a huge impact on the nervous system. So a large part of the work that I do with people is fixing,

that functional breathing is getting people breathing optimally and well through the large majority of the day. So that's like foundation. And once they're breathing well, then we can have tools to then regulate the nervous system in a very specific way. So it's like functional breathing

and then nervous system regulation. So there's quite, you know, it's not necessarily as simple as like, you know, a few exercises to either up, regulate or downregulate. There's like, there's like layers and there's layers to it, let's say. And for you then working with clients, is there a set span of time

for how long you work with the client? Yeah, it takes time, right? It takes time, again, in the age of social media and everyone wanting a quick fix, you know, you can't go to one breathwork session and be healed or have your breathing issues fixed or whatever.

It just doesn't work like that. So the reason why I work in the way I work is I want to leave impactful change and improvements to people's lives. And to do that, we need to work together for a certain amount of time. So eight weeks is the minimum. I normally work with people for eight to ten weeks, and we build and improve aspects of breathing and other aspects of life and healthy lifestyle habits

through that eight to ten week period where we can really build in these habits. Yeah, it's like an eight to ten week period that I work. And is there a specific target audience that you work with or it can be pretty much anyone? Yeah. Or it's just modern life is gearing us up to just being chronically stressed. It's just set up for that. Which is, you know, it is really unfortunate.

But, you know, we spend so much time just on that wheel. And then when we're off the wheel, then, and I think this is the key. It's like I'm not, I'm not saying, go out and be good in your career. career, succeed, achieve. That's all great, right? I think for some people, it's just in their blood. But it's like, are you doing that 100%, which most people do? Because even when they're not at work, then they're achieving something else.

CrossFit, Combs, Ironmans, triathlons, whatever, right? Or they get going out of the weekends and they're probably over-indulging at the weekends. So it's like, if you're running on 100%, you're just not, no one is built. to do that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that will have a negative impact, ultimately on a health, physical health or mental health. That will happen at some point.

So it's like, well, how can you do what you really want to do and achieve everything and live that kind of life? But can you do it in a way that's healthy and sustainable where you're not sacrificing your health, you're not sacrificing your relationships with people that are closest to you? And inevitably that happens, you know? And so that's the key. It's not like, don't do that, but I'm like, look, 85-15. And then it's that 15% of rest, can you get true rest?

Resting isn't sitting on your sofa, scrolling on social media for two hours, right? So it's true rest. And I think that's my machine. It's helping people firstly become aware of the need for true rest, but at least some true rest and then teaching them how to do it. They can continue doing what they really want to do, not making the sacrifices that most people do. And are there any recurring features that you can see across your clients,

such as maybe that they are CEOs or business founders or big athletes. I mean, I worked in that industry of banking and high-frequency trading companies. All of these guys and women are in similar environments and similar roles. So you could be anyone that's in a job that's largely office-based, that's high pressure, it's competitive, driven by the need to perform. all of that will create stress the stress in itself isn't an issue

but we need to build resilience to it tolerance to it and we need to know how to manage it effectively and that's where I think I'd like to come in and help people

so yeah anyone in those types of industries and then wider than that I think we're all facing you know some level stress and anxiety these days yeah of course do you know or

can you say For example, these big companies or corporations, do they offer some kind of courses, how to deal with this for their employees? Yes, I think they do. I think wellness departments are getting more funding year by year. In short, I think corporations are mindful of this. These are issues now. They can't be ignored now. But I still think the adoption of these habits and practices into.

office life or work life, I still think there's such a long way to go. So I think we're at stage now. It's like, hey, let's get a breathwork person into do a workshop or let's get, you know, another wellness expert to do a workshop. I kind of think it stops from there. Not like, well,

you know, how can we help people? Like, why isn't there like a full-time people you know, working on wellness for their staff, like day to day and managing things? I think that's the next level. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. And I would, because we discussed Wim Hof, I would be curious to know from you, what do you think about ice baths?

If you practice that as well and what's your opinion? Yeah, I do, I do. So again, what we need to remember about the ice bath is another stressor. It's an acute stressor. So getting into the ice, we'll stress the body, will activate the nervous system, the stress response, synthetic nervous system. So it's like what's the intention? Why do you want to get it? Right?

That's the key thing. Because again, it's popular because people just like doing stuff that makes them feel good, right? Or gives them a buzz. And you get, you know, you get a flood of endorphins from sitting in the ice, right? And then there's the achievement aspect and there's the egoic aspect of, I sat on the ice for one minute, two minute, three minutes, four minutes, whatever it is, right? I think intention, intention is everything. So if you're someone who's super, super anxious and stressed,

then getting into an ice bath might not be the right thing for you to do. And what's then the reason for you for doing that? So I use it in two ways. So sometimes if I've been training hard, I do a lot of sport, train a lot, and I feel like I need some perceived recovery. Then I'll jump in the ice bath, because it makes me feel good. Now, whether that's actual recovery or not, like a physiologic. level is sort of debatable in the literature and research. There's a specific protocol that you

need to do, which is 10 to 15 degrees for 10 to 15 minutes to start on actual recovery. But sometimes just the act of getting in the ice off for a couple of minutes or four or five minutes just makes you feel good, makes you feel better recovered. And that's just as good in a lot of ways. Yeah, so I think that's just a large part of it. And also for building some resilience, right? So, you know, it is difficult to get in the ice at the start. Using my breath, using it as a tool to manage how I respond to stress in a stressful moment is useful for me. You know, it's helping me be resilient. So I think that's another good way or a great way to look at iceboxes is a resilience aspect. It's different. That doesn't mean sitting in the ice back

and shivering and just looking at the clock and just being like, oh, I just need to get to two, three minute, which is how many of people do? It's like, can you go inside? Can you focus on your breath? Can you stay in control of your breath and manage that stress response? Then your eyes are closed. You're at this internal. Then it doesn't matter what the clock is saying. And the minute that you feel that you can't stay in control of your breathing, which then means that your stress response kicking in, then just get out and have a look and be like, okay, cool, I've got that time. But naturally then, your length of time in an ice bath will increase because you'll be. You're, you'll be like, your resilience degrees.

It's a different way around of looking at it. And I just think that just you might build some willpower by staring at the clock and shivering and getting through it. But is that really what you want to do? Yeah. It's important for people to think about. I think it's well summarized because sometimes when I did it, I felt like, for example, those were too longest minutes in my life. Because when you're in an ice bath and it's super cold, it just takes ages. but you pointed that out really well.

It's nothing to focus on when trying that again. Yeah. And then, then Hersha, what are our plans for the future, whether it's with your coaching, with your life? Ah,

what question to, yeah, as we come to the end of our chat. May, we're settled in Bali, so yeah, after the two and a half years, since Spain,

we moved to Bali in December, and really enjoying life here. You know, it's not perfect. No, it is, but it was, It was working really well for us. The kids are really good school,

doing a slightly different type of education in the green school. Do you want them to become a doctorist? You know, I've gone completely the other way, right? No, I'm just joking. Focused and passionate. That's all that matters, right? But no, we're certainly into life here. And I've got, like, you know, I'm in the early stages,

I think of my mission. I really want to, you know, I really want to spread this knowledge that I've learned. I'm getting some really good results. The way I teach my breathwork is practical, it's evidence-based, we measure stuff, and we're getting some really good results, and that's just driving me to help more. Because I'm so confident in what I'm teaching. I really like the content that you share, for example, whether it's LinkedIn or Instagram, that it's really helpful short and videos.

Maybe for people who want to start or want to find out more, I'm highly encouraged to follow. Because I love the consistency, the quality, the value that you provide. So well done and keep doing that. Oh, man, thank you. It's so hard, honestly. It's hard, right? I think, actually, the coaching stuff I find in some ways a lot easier.

You know, it's when you're out on social media, There's no like half out, you're either in or you're out. And I've chosen, decided that I need to do marketing for my coaching business, which means being involved in LinkedIn and Instagram, and that's consistency and doing things that I've never done before and getting over yourself and a whole load of stuff. It's been a huge learning curve and continues to be. But little signs of, a little, hearing little bits of encouragement from you. Yeah.

Yeah, keep me going. So I appreciate the kind of. ways then thank you. No, notice. And besides these two platforms, are there any other that you are present on or also feel free to promote your course? Yeah, I'm saying no, because two's enough. But do you know what? I think I am thinking about more long-form content. I think everyone's dopamine drains are getting totally exhausted attention spans. I mean, we could talk for another hour on this as well. Are you going to start YouTube channel?

I don't know on YouTube channel because again it's a lot, it's a lot, right? But just maybe some longer form audio content, but for really working on specific problems at each time, so giving people real practical information that they can

implement. We need to go sometimes a bit deeper than platform Instagram content for that, which is great for raising awareness, but maybe doesn't solve problems in a way that it could do. So yeah, this space basically. And the course, where people can find it and if you want to slightly promote it? Yeah, of course.

Yeah, if you're someone who's suffering with stress, anxiety, poor sleep, stress-related health issues, you just want to improve your performance, either at work or in sports, then I think my program is a great program that gets really, really good results, helps you build some really solid lifestyle habits. that you can take on for the rest of your life. You can find or access me on LinkedIn or Instagram or my website, which is www.shbathrow.com.

So yeah, anyone's key to have a show. I will link it to the show notes. And then before we finish, is there something that you would like to share, some final message or something I should have asked you and did not? No, it's been, I can't believe the time's gone so quick. It's been a super cool conversation, man. I mean, there's so many things we could have got into.

It feels so short, but I really enjoyed speaking with it. Yeah, in terms of a message, you say to people, don't be afraid to slow down. You can still live fast, but just live fast a little slower, because your future stuff will thank you for that, I'm sure. So, yeah, that would be a little bit of advice. Yeah, I think greatly summarized. I want to say big thank you. I hope that we delivered what I said before that it's like a script for the film.

We will see one day. I see you. I'll be right. Yeah, I generally hope that people will follow you because your content is really valuable. I love the consistency, so please continue. Thank you so much. I will stay in touch and we'll be happy to catch up in the future again. So thank you, Harsha.

Absolutely. Thank you, so. Thanks for listening to Produce by with Tomer. Check out show notes for all the links. And don't forget to like, subscribe and leave your feedback. Speak soon.