Produced By - Hollywood Calling: The Sci Fi Short Film That Could Change Everything | #57: Chris Browne

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello Chris, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you very much, happy to be here. So Chris, can you please introduce yourself?

Starting point is 00:00:28 Yes, I'm Chris Brown. I am currently the global visual effects supervisor at Sony Pictures Animation, and I'm also an independent filmmaker and a visual effects supervisor. So I always start to discuss a bit of your background. So can you tell us where do you come from and maybe something about your childhood? Sure. I was born in Montreal, Canada, and I grew up predominantly in Ontario, in a small town north of Toronto. And just as I was growing up in this small,

Starting point is 00:01:03 it was a very small, cold, wintery town, and not a lot to do. So I got very interested in filmmaking. And I started playing and experimenting with my parents' old VHS camcorder. And I would start making these movies with friends. And I just really fell in love with the medium and sort of directing and getting them to act. And I also played with animation, stop motion animation, traditional animation. And it just became sort of a passion of mine that grew to where I'm working and what I'm doing today.

Starting point is 00:01:38 So you were interested in film or animation from a young age? Very young. I've probably grade three. I remember at a young age, I was saved up to get my own VHS camera so I can just start using it all the time with friends. So that was sort of like the thing. Where are any influential films that you remember? That's a really good question. Are you talking about way back then when I was young? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:09 Oh, I mean, I remember being really into back to the future, gremlins, like just weird horror kind of creature feature movies, the ones that I was actually allowed to watch. And I was actually, I was really fascinated with Hitchcock as well. I really love the suspense and I really enjoyed that. Yeah. So then once you decided to pursue this kind of career, how did you start? Did you just go to university, study at schools or take some courses?

Starting point is 00:02:43 Well, actually, what happened was I really wanted to pursue this, but, you know, I thought it would be probably make sense to get a, a bachelor of business degree to sort of something to fall back on an alternative path because filmmaking could be so risky. And even the CG animation industry and visual effects was really in its infancy at the time. So I was in business school, but I remember on lunch breaks or in evenings, I was always learning on my own how to do visual effects and CGI. And I would still be filmmaking in my my personal time and I really just wanted to pursue it a hundred percent so actually after that I went to animation school and I applied and um I showed a sort of demo reel of my work and they said because it had it was I had advanced so much on my own that that I only actually

Starting point is 00:03:41 had to go to school for six months to get my degree so I went for yeah it was it was uh it was pretty amazing and and then after that I went to I went to animation school I created a short film when I was there and it started doing well at the film festivals it got into about 18 international film festivals that won some awards so that was kind of the validation I needed to sort of keep going so what kind of animation was it it was it was sort of this supernatural um creature uh animation So it was sort of like an animated thriller, I would say. It's kind of like, if you think Jack the Ripper, except it's got creatures instead of a person who is abducting people. But I mean, it was a very short film, but very moody.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And so it had sort of a very interesting kind of feel to it. And what type of animation? It was CG animation. CG, yeah, yeah. 3D animation. Because I can imagine that back then the software and the technology. tools weren't as advanced? Yes, yeah, it's true.

Starting point is 00:04:51 They were pretty primitive at the time. I was using soft amage. Oh, I don't even know what it is. Well, it changed to XSI and then eventually it was, the company was purchased by Autodesk and now it's just all my eyes. Okay, okay, yeah. And as you mentioned, it was successful. It went to festivals.

Starting point is 00:05:13 So did it help you to kind of step into the industry? I would say so I mean it was a good showcase of what I could do and I think it sort of caught the attention of some certainly the people in the school that I was in like a lot of the professors were interested in what I had done and wanted to share the video amongst the staff and it started gaining some momentum

Starting point is 00:05:38 and through that I sort of got some of my first work in the industry yeah because there is something that a lot of people struggle with or when you are at university it's quite hard to start or how to get into the industry. So can you maybe give some advice when it comes to this? Sure. I mean, it was a different situation when I had graduated. But what I can say is, you know, obviously in school, do the best work that you can focus all of your time and energy on it because that is where you really can push yourself to the max. I remember when I was in school, you know, I was early 20s, so I would hang out with friends and stuff. And then I just started

Starting point is 00:06:28 noticing that the people who were sticking around later and putting in that extra effort, their work just started excelling much faster. So I sort of quit all my sort of personal activities during that schooling time so I can focus 100% and try and get the best work and knowledge possible. So I would say for advice, basically try and excel and get as much feedback as you can from industry professionals on the work that you're doing and actually put the work into implement it. And there are a lot of forums online where you can post your work and get critiques on your work and you'll really start to get a feeling of when your work is actually starting to get at a

Starting point is 00:07:13 very professional level because it'll start getting notice and you'll start getting more compliments than you are getting sort of critiques on it and I think by that point it's ready to start sending it out and applying but then through this process of posting your work you will be gaining a network in the industry and some of those people can help you with your career as well so that would probably be my advice. One of the most frequent pieces of advice I've heard is networking and building connections. So it sounds like you can confirm that. Yeah, I mean, it's a combination of things.

Starting point is 00:07:51 I mean, it's the networking, but also having the work that you can showcase that you can provide. And also, if you become an expert at what you are doing, you can also offer advice to other people as well. So if you are posting, let's say you're an effects artist who has an incredible water simulation that you posted, people may ask you how you did it, you can provide a tutorial and you become sort of an expert in it. So you have something to offer other people that are networking with as well. Also with the short film, was it all one-man show or did you have a crew? But the short film was entirely done myself. Oh, wow. So it's even more impressive.

Starting point is 00:08:34 Thank you. Are you talking about the short from school or the one that I... The one from school. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was done entirely myself as well. Then all the price went just to you. Yeah, all modeling, animation, compositing. Yeah, I just have a real interest in sort of every stage of these projects, project making.

Starting point is 00:08:59 So I really wanted to get hands in all of it. Yep. And then moving forward from there, did you then step into professional industry or what were the next steps? I did. I started getting, actually it's funny, one of my professors had a project for a gaming company that he had hired me onto. So this is very much a result of the short film that I had produced and gaining some interest. So I started working in games just a little bit. And then I moved into live action VFX, where I was working on some serious work at a small boutique studio. And I eventually started my own company, VFX and animation studio.

Starting point is 00:09:46 Wow, really? It sounds like quite a big step or challenge. So, you know, how did you find it starting your own company? It was an interesting experience. So what happened was there was some freelance opportunities. that came my way and I decided to get an office in a post-production house that does mostly editing. So I sort of occupied some office space there that they had available. And I would do the freelance work and as the work started growing, I would get more and more

Starting point is 00:10:20 so I would need additional support. So I would hire people, usually people that I went to school with and we would do the projects and deliver them. And then, of course, we need bigger space and more computers. We eventually grew to about 40 employees and we had an entire floor in downtown Vancouver that we worked from. We were in business for about nine years. Wow, I wasn't expecting that that sounds like a big and successful business.

Starting point is 00:10:51 Yeah, it did really well. We had a lot of coverage and we had a lot of publicity. We were on the cover on some business magazines. We had a lot of coverage in entertainment magazines as well with the work that we were doing. So it was an amazing experience. A lot of really hard work, but extremely rewarding. So what happened with the company then? Is it still around?

Starting point is 00:11:18 No, not currently. Well, I mean, I guess it still exists as a proprietary ship with myself, but the company doesn't exist. I mean, I sort of left it maybe about. 15 years ago, I would say, maybe a little more. But yeah, I mean, it had a great run, but there was the big financial crash of the early 2000s that it was sort of a hard time for businesses in general, as you can imagine. And especially at the time our company was running, there wasn't any streamers. It was all like straight to broadcast traditional television. So I think

Starting point is 00:12:01 Netflix may have existed only as a DVD company that mailed DVDs to people. But this was a different time. But anyways, it was nine years, so it was a good run, I would say. It was back then when Blockbuster was around, I guess. Exactly. And you also mentioned that you were in Vancouver. So did you move to Vancouver? I heard that it's kind of hub for Phil.

Starting point is 00:12:31 and the effects? So is that why you moved there? What was the reason? You know, actually, when I went to business schools when I moved to Vancouver, so it was just kind of a happy coincidence that it became this big hub for animation and visual effects.

Starting point is 00:12:45 So I really lucked out that the industry that I pursued happened to be very thriving, very much thriving in Vancouver. So it was just sort of coincidence, I guess, to say. And is the situation still, the same there that did traveling if we consider not the impacts of the recent strikes but in general yeah i would definitely say in general it is doing very well i was just up there recently and i visited about four studios and they both were packed with lots of work and lots of artists working there

Starting point is 00:13:23 and it was it was a really great experiences to travel around and see how everyone we're doing So moving from your own company, what were the next steps? After my company, I was offered a really great opportunity to work for Bardell Entertainment to head their CGI production. So I was kind of a head of CG position. And I joined the company when I was about 80 employees. And they had explosive growth at the time. So I joined when they had a company. couple of animated series that they needed someone to help oversee. So based on the success of that,

Starting point is 00:14:04 I was also very much involved with building out their pipeline and doing hands-on look development tests for other projects that were potentially coming in. So after I had completed these tests and landed these projects, it was up to me to help grow the studio and build out the pipeline and the workflows and also make sure we hit the quality of what we were going for. So we grew from 80 to 500 employees to three different locations. So it was it was a big undertaking and I had, I had the opportunity to be promoted to one of the heads of studio. But I always made sure I was very much involved with the artists and the hands-on work that we did.

Starting point is 00:14:50 Yeah, that's impressive. And during these, not only this, but also starting your own company. I know you mentioned before that you actually studied business. So did you find this business education helpful during this? Yeah, I would say definitely. I mean, it's interesting because when I was in business school, I was so passionate about working in film and visual effects and animation. And I did sort of gravitate towards that business side as well.

Starting point is 00:15:20 So I was able to use both of those sets of skills. And it even plays out into the work that I'm doing today as well. There's always sort of a certain level of business when you're, you reach a certain level where you're overseeing so much of these productions that go on. But it sounded like you reached kind of top when you were in that company. So you didn't stay there. Was it because you wanted to be more creative or what then? Well, actually, I mean, I was able to continue to be a very creative,

Starting point is 00:15:54 creatively involved head of CG because I've been so passionate about all aspects of the production that I really actually had positioned myself to be on the floor with the artists and to work with them and critique their work in addition to building out the pipelines and meeting with clients and that sort of thing. What happened was so I'd been there for about seven years and one of the clients that we were working with was Dreamworks and they had flown out to meet with me and we had discussed an opportunity where they needed someone like myself to work directly at their studio headquarters in Los Angeles. So this was an opportunity I really considered and I thought it was a good step. So I decided to move down to LA. So that's what brought me down here. And I started

Starting point is 00:16:44 working with them directly on their productions. It sounds like work for one of the literary dream studios. As I said, spoke with some guests before, although they often mention Pixar, I think that the dream works is a pretty much similar level and also such amazing studio. So what does it like working there? Oh, it was really fun. I mean, the talent of the people working there are just exceptional. So you just sort of feed off this energy and this knowledge when you're there. And I felt like what I had to contribute was very much appreciated as well. I did a lot of presentations on cinematography to the staff. And they really tried to incorporate what I was bringing to the table to many of their productions.

Starting point is 00:17:33 And I had a lot of meetings with the creative executives as well, where we would go over ideas and with the executive producers. And then I really have a hand in implementing that on a shot-by-shot level and work with outsource studios as well. So it was just an incredible experience. I really love. Are there any projects that you can mention that you worked on? I worked on a handful, actually. They had, when I started, we worked on the Fast and Furious animated series, which was super fun. And then after that, I had been promoted to a position where I can help oversee a handful of the shows that were in production as well.

Starting point is 00:18:17 So there was a Jurassic Park series. and I made a whole bunch of other ones, some that haven't even been released yet. Oh, yeah. And then after DreamWorks, you moved to another company? Yeah, so after DreamWorks, I was at DreamWorks for five years,

Starting point is 00:18:35 and then I moved to where I'm currently at now, which is Sony Pictures Animation, where I'm the Global BFX. And I'm curious, after Global VFX, is there, what's higher position? after this one, if there is one? Well, there definitely is. I mean, there's VPs, there's executive directors.

Starting point is 00:18:57 It goes all the way up, executives. And so, but I think in my current position, what I really like is I still get to be very much involved with the artists and what they're doing and also the workflows on how we create the work that we do. Can you try to introduce your day-to-day? What does it look like? I understand it will differ. but to give us an idea?

Starting point is 00:19:23 Well, I mean, some days I'll be in a screening room where we get to pull up the artist's work, sort of a sweatbox situation where you critique the work on the big screen and talk about either things that we're going for, ways to improve it or just approve it if it's looking great, which it often does. And so that would be one part of my day. Another part would probably be meeting with the pipeline supervisor on. different tools and workflows that we need to implement for the staff. Other parts of my day would involve meeting with the outsource studios that we're working with,

Starting point is 00:20:04 either critiquing the work that they're doing or helping creatively launch the next batch of shots or assets that they're going to start working on as well. And then I often meet with our internal core team of CG artists to go over their work and also launch them on creative tasks, I guess. Yeah. So is this kind of a role that when you were younger, as we discussed before, that you were dreaming or thinking about? Yeah, I mean, I was definitely fascinated with animation and visual effects. and being involved with it is definitely a big part of what I was dreaming about. I mean, at the time, it was more practical effects or pyrotechnics, but it has certainly evolved to this.

Starting point is 00:20:53 So I would say it's very much aligned with the things that I really wanted to do as a kid, for sure, 100%. And with all your experience and such a, I'm sure, rich portfolio of projects, are you still challenged at work? Oh, yeah, every day. The thing is not only does the technology keep improving, but also the quality of work from other studios, from independent artists. So we always want to be on the cutting edge of what we're doing and always try and sort of push the quality. And by quality, it is either the cinematography or the build of the CG models or the surfacing or anything to approach.

Starting point is 00:21:41 storytelling in a kind of unique and very effective way. I can also imagine that person like you on such a high position must deal with a lot of pressure. So can you tell us how do you deal with that or you know just how do you approach the pressure? Yeah, I mean I would say often I would I mean if it's a massive task I would I would say break it down into just bite-sized bits and break it down to what you can achieve in a day or the next day and have goals of, I mean, usually things are planned out very effectively on a schedule and you just make sure you hit those steps along the way. You know, it's good to keep the big picture in mind, but it's also important to hit the small steps as you go along.

Starting point is 00:22:35 Ultimately, that leads to the final goal. So as long as you're making that progress and you're staying on task, usually the pressure isn't as bad. Yeah. And before we move on to your personal project, is there or are there any projects that you enjoyed working on or for some reason are worth mentioning and you can tell us more about? There was a feature film I worked on at Bardell that it was a great production. Selma Hayek was a producer on it and it starred Liam Neeson. And it was this incredibly artistic and very interesting animated feature that was an independent film.

Starting point is 00:23:19 So it was very art-based. But it was so unique as a project to work on because it was so unlike any other production I'd been a part of before. Just because of the storytelling and everything. And it was directed by Roger Allers, who directed the original Lion King. So it was incredible to work with him and just to absorb his sort of artistic eye for what he was going for and how everything sort of fit into the story and the emotion and the characters and everything like that. So it was a really incredible learning experience. Did you enjoy the final result? I did, yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:00 Yeah, we had a couple of big screenings for the staff at a theater and it was a big event and it was just incredible to see you. I will need to check it out. I think I haven't seen that. So moving on, we can discuss your personal project. So, Chris, can you tell us why did you actually start with that? Well, I mean, since I was a kid, I was always interested in filmmaking and film directing. So that just feels like it's part of my blood. I feel like I have these projects that I get really excited about that I dream up.

Starting point is 00:24:34 And I just have this urge to go out and create them. And I've done a handful of short films now. And this latest one was one that I just really threw my passion and my energy into. And it was just such a, I felt it was a very compelling idea and story that I wanted to tell. It really surprises me that you have enough time for that. Well, I mean, like I said, it's all about breaking down what has to be accomplished on a day-by-day basis. So if you put in however much time you can devote to it, whether it's a. couple hours in the evening or you get up early and put another hour in the morning.

Starting point is 00:25:11 That's kind of how it's done. I also have a laptop that I take with me. So if I'm out with friends or whomever and I can put in a little bit of time and a cafe, I'll certainly do that as well. I think that's the mindset that more people should adopt because we often have excuses that there is no time. But as you said, I think it's a perfect example, even if you do a little bit each day and then it adds up over time?

Starting point is 00:25:37 Absolutely. Yeah. So is that something that you've been doing throughout your career, like working on side projects, or have you started recently? It's pretty much been ongoing throughout my career, pretty much, except I guess when I had my own company, I was, I mean, just an example of a great thing about running your own company.

Starting point is 00:26:00 Sometimes you can decide your level of involvement on the projects that you do. So when I had my own studio, I was able to write and direct some television commercials that we worked on because we had established such a great relationship with the companies that we had worked with. They sort of gave us that trust. So I was fulfilling that need when I had my own studio. But looking back, every company that I've worked for, I've been working on my own independent projects at the same time as well. So that's something that's just been ongoing that I just seem to keep doing. In fact, the day I finished this current project that I'm on, I started working on the next one. I certainly have that one on the works at the moment.

Starting point is 00:26:48 And is it, again, one-minute shows or are you working with someone? Well, so I will see how this new one goes, but up until now, it's been pretty much myself, like this last production I had, about 200 visual effects. shots. It was a live action film, but very VFX driven, lots of CG robots and CGI, like VFX explosions and that kind of thing, virtual sets. And aside from the actors and like the music and sound design, I pretty much did everything myself. So I did all the camera work. I did all of the editing, all of the, every aspect of the VFX, including the CGI, build, surfacing, rigging, everything, compositing, and all of like the Houdini pyrotechnic VFX as well.

Starting point is 00:27:40 So can you maybe share a little introduction or description of the project, such as what type, the length, the name, and just to get an idea? Sure. The film, it's a sci-fi thriller called Pluroma. That's P-L-E-R-O-M-A. and it is 10 minutes long. As mentioned, it has a lot of CGI. It has a lot of VFX in it, a lot of robots.

Starting point is 00:28:09 And it's a, like I mentioned, a sci-fi thriller about a company that is very much reliant on their automated machines to run things. And eventually the machines turn on the human workers. and it's an amateurs that got scrapped that sort of comes back and helps save the day. Spoiler. Spoiler.

Starting point is 00:28:32 It may or may not. We'll see. Spoiler alert. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 Tips on How to Success

Starting point is 00:28:50 in Your Creative Career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. So has the short film actually been released or have you released the trailer only? I've released the trailer online but the film itself has been in about 13 international film festivals currently. So I can't release the film online until it's film online.

Starting point is 00:29:23 finish its film festival run, a lot of film festivals want sort of a premiere status or a non, sort of like theatrical only status for them to qualify into the film festival. So I'm sort of waiting for it to finish its film festival stint before I put it on mine for everyone's. Do you know when roughly it is going to be? I would say probably early fall, I would say. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:53 And did you hear from any festivals back? Did it meet any success? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it's been accepted in 13. So it's screened in 13 film festivals so far. And there's an NFL I'm waiting to hear back on. But it's also won some awards as well. I'm not sure if you're familiar, but it won the Leo Award for Best Visual Effects.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So that's one of the top film and television awards ceremonies in Canada. So that was an awesome one. Oh, yeah. But it's also, yeah, it's doing the rounds currently. I think it's going to be in Montreal in a couple of months. So I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did it go to international one or only North America or US and Canada? It's been throughout North America and Europe. So it's been in some European film festivals.

Starting point is 00:30:50 Do you have even higher ambitions, such as to make it into the feature, if it was successful? I mean, yes, and thank you for asking. That is a big goal. I mean, this film and the previous film, I made another sci-fi thriller about alien abductions. So both of these films, I have actually written a feature film script for. So the intent is to make a feature film from these shorts. so like a feature adaptation, I would say. So the shorts is not only a standalone film production,

Starting point is 00:31:27 but also something I can take as a promotional piece of sort of look development for the feature films that I want to make. Yeah, I mean, I cannot imagine the scale of such a project and everything behind it. Because, of course, I watched the trailer. It looks impressive and considering it's done by one person, person, very well done. Can you say, Chris, what's the budget of such a short film?

Starting point is 00:32:02 Oh, yeah, I mean, honestly, it wasn't a lot. I mean, I would say the budget would be, it's hard to quantify because if I bought a computer, is that, I mean, I use it every day. So is that for the film or is that not? So I would probably say, you know, I purchased some film equipment again. this is I repurposed film equipment from my previous film now I bought some that I'll probably use in the next one so I mean it was probably what I probably spent including a computer would probably be between $5,000 to $10,000 but again it's it's equipment that I'm just going to keep

Starting point is 00:32:41 using and repurposing it's a little bit hard to quantify but I mean I have a drone that I use for the film as well so it all just kind of plays into the mix. I mean, I guess my time, but it's not like I was paying myself, so it was just sort of a passion project, I guess. And considering that you've been doing that along your regular job and life, how long did it take? This previous sci-fi flick I made during the pandemic,

Starting point is 00:33:15 so probably about two years. And again, that's just working even. evenings and weekends and, you know, anytime I can fit in around my day-to-day job. And is it from pre-production to finished project? I would say so, yeah. Oh, that sounds awesome, yeah. The idea about the story, is it something that you had in the mind, let's say, for longer? Or do you sit down and start writing?

Starting point is 00:33:43 Or what's the process like? I for this this one particularly came to me sort of organically I guess you could say I was playing with ideas about machines and how they relate to humans and automation and being reliant on on these things so much that you sort of lose your sort of power a little bit so you now you have to you're so dependent and I was kind of playing with that idea as I was developing some robots like some uh, uh, some CGI creations and stuff like that. And then it just sort of organically came to me as I was kind of working on the CGI, I would say. Are there or were there any inspirations such as well-known films or directors, artists?

Starting point is 00:34:33 I would definitely say a big inspiration would be Neil Blomkamp with District 9. Oh yeah, it's a South American director and film, right? South African, sorry. South African, yeah. You're right. Yeah, no, he, I really like his film aesthetic because like my film, it has this sort of very gritty sort of realism to it. It almost feels documentary style. And I really wanted to go with that because for me, it's really important is to convey this realism.

Starting point is 00:35:06 You sort of lose the feeling that you're sitting and watching a movie that was perfectly put together, whereas if it was, feels sort of rough and dirty and organic. I really wanted to go for that realism. So even with my alien production that I did before this one, I had sort of a similar aesthetic to it. So I found the work that he's done very inspiring. So is sci-fi your favorite genre then? Yeah, and I would even sub-categorize that,

Starting point is 00:35:37 that at least for my own filmmaking, I would say it's a gritty, real sci-fi is, my favorite. Like I like working with a current day feeling but with one sci-fi element added to it as opposed to out in space or on spaceships and that kind of thing. I tried to make it feel like everything is sort of very present day except the robots are these new sort of sci-fi addition to the world that we live in. So to me it feels a lot more relatable that way. Yeah. And how did you handle the actual production. I can imagine that

Starting point is 00:36:17 it might be super challenging being on set, filming, you know, the whole day of filming and to you as the person responsible for everything. So how was it? It was good. I mean, it was, at one part,

Starting point is 00:36:33 I mean, it's kind of stressful because I only have myself to rely on. So if there's any kind of trouble with the equipment, I had to figure it out right there. on set. So I was pretty much a production person of one as well as sound and all of that. So I felt like I had to become an expert in each little aspect of in order to pull it off. But in the same sense, because it was such a small, like just a crew of me, if I can get the actors together, I can

Starting point is 00:37:05 literally just throw a shoot together at any given moment if we needed to go go out and capture something that I wanted to add. So keeping it lean also freed me up a little bit as well. So I could experiment a little more and find some interesting locations without having to worry about a huge crew or anything like that. So it really helped with the whole run-and-gun sort of renegade filmmaker type thing. Can you say how many days of production was it then? That is a really good question.

Starting point is 00:37:37 I would probably say maybe around two weeks. Were there any particular challenges that you had to face? I'm sure that there were many, but something that stood out. Sure. In terms of the production or the VFX? You can say both. Okay. So one particular challenge was we shot in a very interesting location.

Starting point is 00:38:03 It was in Canada's particle nuclear physics. laboratory. So this is an incredible nuclear physics lab where they have a they have this unbelievable equipment. Just being there, you feel like you're in a sci-fi movie. Like you don't even need to set dress. It's just these unbelievable massive machines and you have scientists with lab coats and clipboards taking details down information and just wires. and tubes and like fog just pouring out everywhere. Like you really feel like you're in a sci-fi set. Like a perfect location.

Starting point is 00:38:48 It is a perfect location. I mean, honestly, you can point your camera anywhere, and it was just amazing. The challenge was they only let us, so they almost never let anyone do any kind of filmmaking there, ever. And the reason is because, as you can imagine, the sensitive nature of the equipment. It's also dangerous, and it's very disruptive for the scientists working there.

Starting point is 00:39:14 But I had a relationship with this laboratory from way back when I had my own company. They're actually a client, and we did some CGI particle simulations for them that allowed them to sort of demonstrate visually the work that they were doing. So because of this relationship, they allowed me to go film there. The only catch was I was only allowed to film there one day. So there was a humongous amount of pressure to try and capture everything possible in that one day. So that was a particular challenge. They also scanned you for radiation when you come in and leave as well.

Starting point is 00:39:53 So you can't even be in there for that long. But thankfully, I was able to shoot as much as I possibly could. and then everything beyond that I actually had to rebuild and see some of those environments and shoot those virtually so that that as well was quite a challenge you answered my question

Starting point is 00:40:14 I was about to ask how did you get there how did you get the permission oh yeah yeah no it was a lot of a lot of begging and pleading and they agreed so did you actually use any green screen in the end

Starting point is 00:40:31 No, I didn't use green screen. I was able, I just feel, and here's an advantage of being the VFX soup and the film maker, like the film director is you can shoot things in a way that can accomplish what you need. And you can do it very economically and you can know where to put the most amount of work and sort of capture exactly what you need. So I was able to capture in a way that I didn't have to do much green screen. screen or rotoing. But I did have entirely virtual environments and sometimes virtual digital doubles in it as well, which was very complicated. But once all of that was built, I was literally

Starting point is 00:41:14 able to go into this CGI environment and shoot new sequences and put new shots together that helped sort of add what I wasn't able to shoot on location. So it actually turned into a huge advantage. Once everything was built, of course, the work had to go into building. it but once it was there was very freeing to add additional sequences yeah and if i remember correctly you said that you were filming in canada but you work in l.a so did you go there just to film or what were the circumstances yeah i went there to film just the the sequences with the particle physics lab and a couple of locations around there but i would say the the exterior shots were predominantly done in LA

Starting point is 00:42:05 and the interior was a lot were done in Vancouver. Yeah. So then moving to post-production to end VFX. As you as a professional in VFX, can you tell us more about the process? Sure. I mean, on set, I captured what a VFX supervisor would typically do. I captured the HDI images.

Starting point is 00:42:31 I captured a Da Vinci color chart, gray ball, mirror ball. Did all the measurements possible to be able to integrate the CGI with the live action. So I had everything very well organized that way. I did, I edited, like, there were humongous sequences of just robots in it over the background. So you don't see any actors. So I had to do sort of a rough edit of what clips I thought would work best. and then do sort of a, I guess what they call it, not a pre-vis, but a post-vis. So I would put the CG characters in there and just try and line them up and see if it's all working as a storytelling sequence.

Starting point is 00:43:14 So I did a lot of that. I built a lot of tools to help me work. So one of my experiences working in productions with a huge amount of artists, like in the realm of 500 artists, I was very much aware, involved with pipeline building tools that can automate processes that the artists don't have to do so they can focus on the creative and not the repetitive tasks. So I took that approach to myself. It was kind of like the opposite. Now that I'm only one person, I needed to write tools that don't tie me up doing a lot of things because I'm only one person. So I would spend the time building pipeline tools.

Starting point is 00:43:56 So I built my own Olympic Cash pipeline. Right now, I've rebuilt it to be a USB pipeline. So that works with my production, so I can work very efficiently that way. I built the effects tools that allowed me to take a landscape and implement explosions that blew pieces apart based on this Houdini digital asset. And also the ground terrain that I worked in was very difficult for. from a VFX standpoint, because it was like lots of sand and dirt. So every time a character would interact with the environment,

Starting point is 00:44:34 you'd have to see some sort of tracks left in the dirt or dirt being kicked up. So I created a production tool that allowed to take the velocity of whatever was rolling through the ground or stepping into the ground to take that and add realistic sort of dirt interaction that matched the environment. Those are a few challenges that I had. to overcome. I cannot imagine. And when building all these tools, is that something that you built and you have future projects in mind, such as you build it and you can reuse it later on? Or is it just built for this Petswick project and it's done? No, I could absolutely use it for future projects.

Starting point is 00:45:16 In fact, I've done demonstrations with some of the tools that I've built and I've had other productions like request it for their studio. So I've actually, I've provided some of these tools for other people's productions to work with. So it's been pretty effective just as pipeline tools in general. So I'll often post breakdown videos on how I accomplish certain things. And if people are interested, I'm happy to help out. Yeah. So then I'm actually curious, Since this is all the project done by you only, why is it that you don't reach out to someone for help? Is it, you know, because of budget or because you want to do it by yourself? Or what's the reason?

Starting point is 00:45:59 That's a really good question. I mean, I would say a big part of it is as a, as I've been a CG supervisor, I've been ahead of production and now a Global VFX supervisor. I personally feel like it's really important to have hands-on experience with each level of a project so that I feel like I understand the challenges that are involved and the technological solutions that can help with those challenges. So I use it as partly as an exercise to really familiarize myself with pretty much all stages of production. I really like to just be involved. Very rarely on a project, can you have your hands touch each and every aspect of it?

Starting point is 00:46:48 So this is just a great opportunity to be able to take the time to be able to learn those skills. And you'll never develop them to a degree until you have to rely 100% on yourself. So I just feel like it's really incredible sort of growth experience as an artist and as a supervisor. you have to go through that. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Starting point is 00:47:11 What's then the part that you enjoyed the most? Is that actually VFX or something different? That's a good question. I would say probably, I would probably say on set. I really enjoy working with actors and staging my shots. But, I mean, to be honest, when you're there, you keep fantasizing of how great it's going to cut together. And then when you're cutting it together, you start thinking of how great it's going to look once the VFX are in there.

Starting point is 00:47:42 So you're always kind of thinking about the next step. And I really love all aspects of it. So, you know, it's it all depends on what I'm working on that day, I would say. But it certainly is fun being out there and being on set and staging your shots and seeing it play out is such an awesome experience. And don't you then have temptation to move from VFX career to working on set? Well, I've worked on set as a VFX soup. So yeah, I definitely see the appeal to that. And certainly as a director as well.

Starting point is 00:48:24 I mean, that's a big goal is to create one of these short films as a feature that I can be directing on set. So very much. But, yeah, I was. wondering if, you know, hopefully you were making the feature film in the end, what will be your role? If you were director or if you would try to micromanage more steps, because it will be obviously hard since it's kind of your child? I would probably say, I mean, on a production, that would be a full feature. Obviously, I would be working with a team of artists, the effects artists onset, cinema, DP, cinematographer, all of that sort of thing. So I would of course be working with a bigger team.

Starting point is 00:49:12 I would very much, I mean, my number one goal would be to be the film director on the production and then probably VFX supervisor. And I really appreciate what the director of Godzilla minus one was able to accomplish because he was also the, he was the director and VFX supervisor. and I think that was just such an incredible feat that I would love to take on as well for myself. I haven't seen the film yet, but from what I read, the budget was really low, if you consider quality, right? Absolutely. I think I heard the budget was around 15 to 20 million, but don't quote me on that.

Starting point is 00:49:55 But for what they were able to put into the production was incredible. I mean, it looked like a few hundred million. And it was, and not only that, the storytelling was so fantastic, the characters, the directing. It was such a, it was such a full filmmaking, moviegoing experience to see that film. So I'd highly recommend it. But it also, what I feel opens the door to other VFX supervisor slash directors to be considered because when you're directing and with a firm understanding of VFX, there is so much you can bring to the table that you can make a production of a smaller budget seem much larger.

Starting point is 00:50:42 I mean, I'll give you an example. For my short film, it's only 10 minutes long. And I had a screening at Sony with one of the head of visual effects for the live-action, live-action side of Sony Pictures Entertainment. And the feedback I got was that the budget for the V-Effects of the 10 minutes looked like it could have been around $2 to $4 million. And I did all of it myself. So I feel like in the right hands, a film director can bring a lot of value to the project

Starting point is 00:51:12 from the VFX and monetary standpoint. I was also surprised when I asked you about the budget, it was so low. I wasn't expecting it. Yeah, I mean, for a personal project, it felt like a good chunk of money. But yeah, no, it's, again, just because it all came down, of just me so you know i kind of just did everything myself to be honest but kept it in that range and as you worked on it just by yourself don't you kind of suffer from perfectionism because i can imagine that you try to make it better and better and never finish uh so do you suffer from this

Starting point is 00:51:54 or did you say you finished and it was done i i feel like there are times when when it's like that there I would say the thing you have to worry about more is just accepting it when it can be better because you've worked so long on it. So it's a delicate balance. And that's often when I get other people in the industry who I know to sort of give their critique on it. So I had someone that I know who was worked in visual effects at MPC. And I would send him shots periodically that he would critique or say, you know, sometimes I would say, okay, I got all this dirt and damage on the robot. And I did five different versions of it.

Starting point is 00:52:37 And I could not decide which one I liked best. So I would send it to him. And he would say what he thought. And I got a lot of really great feedback that way. So I think sort of getting some fresh eyes on it really helps. And yeah. Yeah. So that's pretty much perfectionism, sure, at some point you just want to move on from a shot.

Starting point is 00:53:00 So there's that. Yeah. And when it comes to festivals and send in your films for festivals, what is it actually like? Because I can imagine there must be huge competition. So how easy or how hard is it to get your film there and to get its screened in front of the eyes of those people? I would say it's quite difficult, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:53:25 Like you said, there is a ton of competition. and a film about a sci-fi film about robots isn't usually, I would say, film festival bait. They usually have much more sort of more dramatic art house-type films that they usually tend to screen, and they sort of consider big action, robot thrillers, kind of more like you can go see that in Hollywood. So it can be a challenge. So you've got to find the right film festival. well that's interested in screening that type of work, even though I feel like my film has a lot of character depth to it and the emotion.

Starting point is 00:54:05 So, yeah, I would say the process of applying is actually incredibly easy because you use a website called Film Freeway, where you upload your film, your trailer, and a synopsis, and it's very easy to, they list pretty much almost all of the film festivals out there, which are hundreds. and you just you can just click submit on them and you pay a small fee

Starting point is 00:54:29 which adds up if you apply to a lot of film festivals. So I would just, my advice would be to just be very selective of the festivals that seem interested in the content that you've made and are also festivals that are worthy. Like there's a lot of ones that are online festivals or small ones that no one's ever heard of.

Starting point is 00:54:47 So I probably pay less attention to those ones and focus on some of the bigger ones. Yeah. And if we consider and hope for the best scenario that it would be successful to get featured, what happens then? Is it then up to you to reach out to studios or do they reach out to you or what is it like? Oh, to make it as a feature? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, basically it is, I'm fortunate to be working at Sony, so I'm able to reach out to some people through my contacts. also the feature film script I co-wrote with a former executive producer at DreamWorks. His name is Tim Hedrick.

Starting point is 00:55:32 And he has some contacts as well as myself that I've made throughout the industry that I've been reaching out to. I mean, that's a difficult process, especially now. There's not a lot of productions being made. So it's just about, like you said before, it's about networking and trying to sort of approach the right people and see what their interest level is. And do you do some kind of promotion with this short film? Because I saw on LinkedIn that you probably screen it somewhere or showed it somewhere?

Starting point is 00:56:06 Yeah, I mean, in addition to the film festivals, I've talked on different industry panels. So I'll be on a panel with other filmmakers where we'll talk about our filmmaking process. I've gone to different companies where I've presented the film and I've done a talk and the employees are very interested in hearing about my process, either how it was made or how to get it out there or how to just come up with your own production. So there's that. I've also done some publicity as well. I've been in some industry-related magazines and articles. So that helped get some exposure as well, definitely. And when you were writing a script or even for this short film, did you have specific actors in mind that would play the roles in the feature?

Starting point is 00:56:59 There are a few, I would say. And they're usually not the A-list actors, but more the character-driven actors that I would love to work with, just because it is sort of a very gritty, quirky kind of film. So, yeah, definitely. And same question, but with people behind the camera, such as any well-known cinematographers or editors or some people like that? Yeah, I haven't put a ton of thought into that, but honestly, I would probably just go to the movies that I either found the most inspirational or most similar to what I'm going for,

Starting point is 00:57:40 and I would probably seek them out that way. And then you said that you, after finishing this one, that you started working on the next one, is that correct? Yes, yeah, I've already started. So can you tease, what is it, or it's still in the work, so you don't want to talk about it? It's still in the works. It's going to take place in prehistoric times. So it's sort of a complete contrast to sort of the sci-fi vibe. and I really want to make it sort of like the movie The Revenant with Leonardo DiCaprio,

Starting point is 00:58:18 but more taking place in the Stone Age. It sounds like you are picking more and more challenging projects. I like it. And what's the stage of the film now? For this new one? I basically built one of the environments in CG. and I'm very close to finishing the sculpt on the first main character of it. So this one's going to be entirely in siege.

Starting point is 00:58:50 Well, there might be some live action components to it. Have you got a deadline or release date in month? For the new one, that I am not sure yet. I mean, I would love to have it finished within maybe one to two years like the previous one. so that's kind of what I'm thinking right now but we'll see hopefully I'll be in production on a feature for my role lot

Starting point is 00:59:17 I was going to say that you may not finish that at all yeah well there's definitely some there's the larger scale probably 10 minute version of the film I'd like to make and then there's some sort of shorter snippets so we'll see how much I can fill out in that time. sounds exciting yeah so just to be aware of time as we will be running over one hour

Starting point is 00:59:42 is there something that you want to say about the film and I didn't ask you or even to promote the film oh I would say just for those who are interested my website is Chris Brown with an E at the N digital.com so C-H-R-I-S-B-R-O-W-N-E digital.com So check that out. But also, please connect with me on LinkedIn. I love sharing my process and the stuff I'm working on. And also provide updates on any screenings or what's happening with this project or other projects that I'm doing. So I would say definitely connect with me on LinkedIn and we can build our network together.

Starting point is 01:00:27 Yeah, I will make sure to share it and add it to the show notes. But also, Chris, because you have such a rich and successful career, Can you share some final piece of advice to the listeners? I would say just keep hungry with your personal work. Just keep at it. Keep learning. I mean, sometimes with this technology, it could be very frustrating, just trying to wrap your head around certain things,

Starting point is 01:00:52 especially if you have very ambitious goals. So it just takes time to get there. So just embrace the time it takes. Always keep working at it. And just know that if you're not achieving, exactly what you're wanting at that time, just the sheer fact that you're working on it, you're making progress. And just reach out.

Starting point is 01:01:13 You know, it's very easy to reach out to people online to get it out there. So just build your network that way and opportunities will come to you. Yeah. I think that's a perfect message to finish with. So thank you very much, Chris. It was inspiring to listen to you. Of course, we wish you good luck with your project. We will be following you.

Starting point is 01:01:33 And it sounds really amazing. fingers crossed and thank you. It was nice to meet you. And thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Likewise. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - Hollywood Calling: The Sci Fi Short Film That Could Change Everything | #57: Chris Browne

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.