Produced By - Psychology In Practice: How People Decide Who To Trust | 141: Ciara O'Neil

Starting point is 00:00:00 I hear so many people talk about psychology and neuroscience, and I see it a lot as a buzzword used in content, but no idea actually explains, like, what is the psychology behind this? What is the weird of sense behind this? And I think that frustrated me as someone that comes from a psychology background, because I dig a bit deeper and think, right, right, there is a reason behind why we're writing content in this way. There's a reason why I'm telling you to do X, Y, and Z, not just psychology sets. And so for me, it frustrated me a little bit when I first ended.

Starting point is 00:00:30 of the personal branding space. And I really thought it was a gap I could plug by actually teaching people real sort of techniques to build trust with people. That's the big sort of centrepiece of personal branding and psychology is actually building trust with your audience and actually going through some of the real psychological theories, research that's been done. I don't have to talk about it in like extensive detail, give you all the study insights, but I can give you action takeaways that makes sense from my perspective as someone that understands psychology. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys.

Starting point is 00:01:08 Thank you. Hello, Kira. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. So Kira, for those who do you know you, can you please introduce yourself? Perfect. So I'm Kira, I'm based in the UK and I'm a personal brand and LinkedIn strategist and founder of brandfulness. I've been in industry for around 18 months now and have absolutely

Starting point is 00:01:35 loved working in the personal branding space. I found it so interesting. It's been amazing working with some brilliant sort of founders and clients in the industry. So my work revolves around helping founders, professionals and teams build their reputation and grow their personal brands. And a big part of that happens on LinkedIn. I started posting on LinkedIn myself, quite recently. Well, it's been a year now, but compared to some in the industry, it's quite recent. And I've built a community of around 18,000 people now and have found it to be the perfect platform really to showcase your thought leadership and your expertise. So that's really what my work centres around now is helping sort of founders, professionals and teams show up

Starting point is 00:02:19 on LinkedIn to really sort of grow their own brands and reputations in the industry. And also a big part of that actually happens beyond LinkedIn as well. It's not all of a about posting and sort of growing a following. It's actually about creating an identity that people connect with. So a big part of the work I do is actually helping people craft that identity and show up wherever they show up as a personal brand. That's in networking conversations on discovery calls, in meetings and making sure that personal brand is really consistent, as that's actually how you were a reputation in your field. I'm very happy to hear that, especially with the passion.

Starting point is 00:02:56 And something I would like to know is actually, how did you discover this passion or the focus on personal branding? Because if I'm not mistaken, your background is quite different. So how did you come to discover it? Yeah, so it's been a bit of a journey into personal branding. So I'll give you a little bit of a load of sort of what I've done throughout my career. So I started out wanting to work in the legal field, actually. And that's sort of where my academic background was originally.

Starting point is 00:03:22 and I worked in a really amazing sort of small legal consultancy for a while. Very quickly I realized that maybe I wanted to do something a bit more creative, a bit more hands-on. And I also really fell in love with sort of the business behind the consultancy versus the legal work itself. So I actually went back to university and studied psychology. So I wanted to better understand people the way they behaved. And I thought this would then translate into whatever I wanted to do next. So yeah, I went back and studied psychology.

Starting point is 00:03:52 specialising in motivational behaviour. I did my dissertation around attitudes towards AI technologies and the way people engage with them. And then whilst I was studying, I actually started designing websites, just sort of as a creative outlet, really. And I started working with a lot of founders and creatives, basically. And very quickly found they had no strategy behind their brand or their business in that sense.

Starting point is 00:04:18 And I thought this was a good way to actually use my psychology to help them actually build a sort of a presence and identity for themselves alongside the website. So this not only helped them, but it also helped the success of websites I built. And then that's kind of where it came about, really. I sort of left the website stuff. I still enjoy doing it now and again, but I focus more on the personal brand strategy side of things now. What I find really interesting, or you can say even courageous or bold and ambitious, is that despite studying one field, switching to something completely different,

Starting point is 00:04:51 and, you know, because sometimes people feel like that if you study something, you need to do it. And of course, it's kind of uncomfortable to switch or focus on something different. But as you just said, it's okay to change because you may discover completely new passion, new field and something completely different. Exactly that. Yeah, I gave a talk in a school recently and I talked about that sort of same topic about how I think when we're younger, we often think that we're going to be stuck in that sort of field that we've chosen for ourselves. So for me, I chose law quite early on. And then when you actually get to working in the field, you don't know whether you're going to really like it or not.

Starting point is 00:05:27 And obviously, for me, I enjoyed it whilst I was there, but it's not something I saw myself doing long term. So I think especially whilst you're young, and you can do it at any stage of life as well, but you have to sort of have a confidence to try something different. You don't have to, like, completely change industry, but you can pivot, twist and turn, and that's completely okay. And I think it's got to be comfortable with finding something

Starting point is 00:05:48 that you can do long term, because you're going to be in a, a job for a really long time. You've got to be happy and comfortable with it. You don't want to be stuck somewhere where you don't feel like you can run and thrive yourself. That is true. And I always try to remind myself or keep in mind, if you look, if you think about the future and then look back, you would be regretting or why didn't I try back then? Why even try? Maybe it would work, maybe not. But now I'm regretting that I have not. Exactly. It's one of those things, isn't it? You can, I think, when you're in the moment, you think, what if it doesn't work,

Starting point is 00:06:20 but there's a massive possibility that it really could work as well. And the future you would be so disappointed if you never even gave it a chance to begin with. And I think another great point that you said, if I haven't missed it, is that you worked in that company and then you decided to study again, which I feel like that sometimes people, or there's like this mindset that once you finish your studies, you are kind of over. I'm not going to study again. I've done it. But what was impressive, what you just said, that you work, but you still went back to study, which I think is another great point and something that says a lot about your mindset. Definitely. I think it's, again, that same sort of bracket of not being scared to try something

Starting point is 00:06:59 different. If you don't like the thing that you're doing right now, there are so many other options. For everyone, it's not a possibility to go back to university, but you can do other things yourself to try and gain credibility in a different field. So you can start doing research about it, takes short course, it's reach out to people in that industry. street and ask them for sort of how they got into the field, what they'd recommend doing and if they wanted, if you wanted to pivot, for example. So all of those things are within your control that you can do. You don't always have to go back to university. Obviously, it's great if you can. But there are so many other ways you can pivot into a new industry as well.

Starting point is 00:07:33 Yep, I agree. And as we said, you never know what you might discover later on. Exactly. Also, one thing that stuck in my mind is that you said actually that you did desertation, that was somehow related to AI. Yes. Because I find it very interesting as well. Like, you know, because obviously AI is a big topic. It's constantly evolving.

Starting point is 00:07:53 So is it something that you are interested or because you saw their potential or why actually focus on AI? Yeah, it was an interesting choice. A lot of people sort of chose quite traditional psychology topics to sort of write their thesis on. And I did a research project around it as well. But for me, I was really fascinated about AI technology, how they were coming about. It was a few years ago now, so it's before AI was really super mainstream. So I was

Starting point is 00:08:19 interested in understanding whether there were psychological reasons behind why some people were super sort of passionate about getting to know, like chat GPT, for example, why do some people use the whole time and why are some people really scared and overwhelmed by it? So I looked at different motivational theories. One of them's called self-determination theory, and it looks at sort of three conditions that are sort of required for people to want to be motivated to engage. And one of them was relatedness and about how they almost need to feel like they're part of a community or they connect in some way to other people doing the same thing as them. So that's why for younger people, where there's a lot of discussion and talk about AI, uptake tends to be a lot higher. Whereas for

Starting point is 00:09:02 older generations or people that don't come across it in their day-to-day job as much, it seems a lot more distant and sort of more of a scary topic to talk about. But yeah, it was a super interesting sort of research project, lots of different areas on it. And yeah, lots of interesting findings as well. Yeah. And if you looked at kind of similar dissertation today with how much the AI has evolved, do you think it will be, I know, much more comprehensive, very different or similar, or what do you think? I think it would be, I think the findings would be a lot stronger because I think at the time, not many people had extensively used AI. So we were sort of assessing their motivations to engage in literally things like chat GPT

Starting point is 00:09:45 or the very sort of more like basic mainstream AI platforms. Whereas these days, I think, especially us as creators, we engage with so many different types of AI platforms that maybe the results would be completely different because obviously we're used to completely different technologies that we use back. And it makes one curious, what is it going to look like? I don't know, in a few years or even in a few months with the advancement and the progress. Gosh, I wish I knew. I've known.

Starting point is 00:10:14 I genuinely think that if we as sort of creative business owners, people use AI and day-to-day life, if we use it as a tool rather than replacements of our skills, we can always make positive use of it. And it's not going to take over our lives. It's not going to take over our jobs. It's about learning to sort of adapt and sort of use the technology versus letting it replace us. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And when I was also doing a bit more research about yourself or even when I read your content

Starting point is 00:10:43 and also what you mentioned before, that thanks to your studies or focus on psychology before, and when I was reading more about your profile and what you do, that you apply like a psychology to branding as well. That's actually something that stands out to me because, you know, you can see too that on LinkedIn there are many people who focus on branding, personal branding, but honestly, I haven't really seen that many or maybe not any that focus on psychology. So can you say it's like a competitive edge or something that makes you unique from the others as well? Definitely. I think it is a competitive edge because I hear so many people talk about psychology and neuroscience.

Starting point is 00:11:22 And I see it a lot as a buzzword used in content, but no idea actually explains like what is the psychology behind this. What is the neuroscience behind this? And I think that frustrated me as someone that comes from a psychology background because I dig a bit deeper and think right, right. There is a reason behind why we're writing content in this way. There's a reason why I'm telling you to do X, Y, and Z, not just psychology sets. So for me, it frustrated me a little bit when I first entered the personal branding space. And I really thought it was a gap I could plug by actually teaching people real sort of techniques to build trust with people. That's the big sort of centrepiece of personal branding and psychology is actually building trust,

Starting point is 00:12:03 with your audience and actually going through some of the real psychological theories, research that's been done. I don't have to talk about it in extensive detail, give you all study insights, but I can give you action takeaways that makes sense from my perspective as someone that understand psychology. That's sort of why I do what I do. And I think it has helped a lot of people because they understand why they're doing things. I think people are more likely to take action and actually stick to advice if they know the reason behind why they're doing it, rather than psychology and neuroscience says you should do this. Yeah, that is true.

Starting point is 00:12:38 And I think there was a good point before that I also often see it, like, you know, that you need to apply psychology. And I feel like maybe sometimes people mean like it's such as when you create a content, it's psychology like, okay, I need to have a hook to hook down. I need to, I don't know, have this structure and these aspects of the post and this. It's like this type of psychology that everyone talks about, but then I understand from your point of view. It's like a different word considering all your experience and background.

Starting point is 00:13:06 Exactly. And all those things are valid, but they're part of a bigger reason and a bigger theory behind it. And it's all right, just giving these broad brush stroke statements, which are saying, like, psychology says this. But why does it say that? What does that mean for you? What does that mean for your audience? How can we use this consistently rather than just sort of psychological do that? And before discussing LinkedIn in more detail, actually, why did you discover, or how do you discover,

Starting point is 00:13:32 or how did you discover the platform? So it was a bit of a sort of stumble upon the platform. I used it a little bit before previously, but literally had like 200 connections and very, very much used it as the job hunting platform that most people do. And then I tried, when I first started in the personal branding space, I sort of started posting for a little bit,

Starting point is 00:13:55 didn't really like it. So I don't think I understood really how to use a platform and sort of how impactful it could be really. So I stuck with Instagram, stuck with sort of my blogs, et cetera. And then I came back to it last year and I was like, you know what? I need to give this a guy. I've seen so many other people doing really well on the platform. And for me, especially because obviously I have a bit more of an academic background,

Starting point is 00:14:17 I like to bring psychology and data and things into the sort of the work I do. Having a platform that I could write content on and reuse words and appealed to me. So I thought I'd give it another go. And second time around, I went from like very few followers to call. a few followers quite quickly because I stayed consistent. And I think I had a very strong brand identity before I started on the platform. I knew what I wanted to be known for. There wasn't too much experimenting in that sense. And I think that helped me the second time around because those things are really clear to start with. Well, I can say that I wish I approached it

Starting point is 00:14:52 in the same way, like knowing what I want, how to approach it, how to do it, without trial and error and all the fails. Exactly. But I think it happens differently from everyone as well, and I think to start with, the first time around, it very much was trial and error. It didn't work. And I sort of, I gave up on it quite quickly. But the second time around, I was like, I knew I had to be a bit more intentional with it. And then that's when I started applying everything I knew, sort of trust building and content

Starting point is 00:15:17 writing and things like that to the platform. And that's when it sort of worked, worked better. It was still trial and error and testing different things, things working, things not working. But just with a little bit more sort of understanding the second time around. But of course people sometimes think that, for example, when I read it on your bio on LinkedIn, that you went, I think, around 12 months from 0 to 18K followers, that people might think, okay, she went, I don't know, quickly because of content or I don't know, but then people don't see, like, as you said, their academic background, the thinking behind it,

Starting point is 00:15:51 even experience from other platforms. So you never really know the whole picture and what is really behind it. and it's not just about the lacquer algorithm like in you. Exactly. There's so many more things that go in behind the scenes. I think that often you see the highlight reel, don't you, on LinkedIn? Like, oh, I've achieved this in this amount of time, and I've made this amount of money in this amount of time.

Starting point is 00:16:13 But actually, there are several other factors that have gone in behind the scenes and never talked about. And I think it often puts people off because they think, well, they've gone from this amount of followers to this amount of followers and X amount of time, I haven't achieved that for myself, I must be doing something wrong. When in reality, they've tested the platform before. They know someone that does really well who helps them write their content. They've got experience in copywriting.

Starting point is 00:16:39 Like all of these things add up behind the scenes that she made their success so much easier. So you should never be disheartened by what you see other people do because there's often other things behind the scene. And it's like you never see the whole picture and keep in mind that people usually share you know, like the successes and wins and don't really talk about all the failures or what hasn't worked out behind the scenes. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:17:03 And I think it's getting a little bit better on LinkedIn, I think these days compared to what it was before because I think people are being a little bit more transparent and being a little bit more vulnerable. But I don't see it across the board and I think it's often hard when that's all you see. All you see is the highlight reel

Starting point is 00:17:19 on the wins and all the sort of polished things. It's really hard when you're stuck getting started when you don't see those things for yourself. On, yes, points, yes, points to compare. And then from your journey, Kiara, when you showed up on LinkedIn and when you grew what we discussed now, I'm sure audience would love to hear if you've got any advice or ideas, how to grow, how to build your brand.

Starting point is 00:17:41 I don't want to say go viral, but, you know, how to just grow consistently, whether it's following clients or even your personal brand. So yeah, I think there's a lot of things that go into it. And I think the first thing to get super clear on is that what are your goal, for the platform. So do you actually want to grow your account or do you want to get clients or do you want to get on podcasts, for example, like this? Like what is your goal to the platform? I'd say to start with no matter whether you're a business owner or whether you're someone in a 95-5 job, getting visibility on your brand is important. So I'd probably go through like a little bit of a growth stage.

Starting point is 00:18:16 Start with try and create content and it gets eyes on your brand and who you are and what you do. and then from there you can then start building in that authority content, which is what I talk about the most and what I really specialize in, is actually helping people build a real authority rather than just creating sort of relatable, shareable content that anyone else can do. Because that content's great, like I said, for visibility and getting eyes on your brand to start with. But when you're actually wanting to get a job or get seen by a recruiter or get a dream client land in your inbox, you're actually going to have to be showcasing your expertise.

Starting point is 00:18:49 we're going to have to be building trust. We're going to have to be sort of making real connections with people. And those are all the things that are sort of come in a little bit later on, but are super important. That's a great point because, again, you may see someone that does one thing, I don't know, posts with this consistency or this type of content, but again, you don't know what is their goal, and maybe your goal is completely different,

Starting point is 00:19:12 so it doesn't really make sense you to copy them if you are like in a different places. Exactly. You have no idea what someone else's goal are and a lot of people in different niches in different industries have naturally very different goals for their brands. And I think it's super important to get crystal clear on what you want to do and what you want your personal brand to help you achieve. Because I think when you go into it with, I'm just going to grow my brand and see what happens. That's where you fall into very quickly, like chasing the engagement and chasing the impressions and things like that, which is obviously,

Starting point is 00:19:42 you need to have that some degree, but you can't be doing that forever. Otherwise, you'll never, you're never going to achieve anything from your personal brand. Exactly. And I think it's also important to say that it's also sustainable to keep purchasing the latest trends and trying to go via all the time or something. Exactly. It's all about, I think, showing up on socials and especially platforms like LinkedIn are really important, especially if you're a business owner or if you're wanting to become sort of an industry

Starting point is 00:20:11 leader. But you can't spend all your life on a platform. It's not sustainable. You have a job. You have a business. you have other things to be doing and you're like if we're spending all day on. Chances are and what all the change is have to be behind the scenes. So what we're really trying to do is help you show up in the best way possible for as little time as possible. So when you're on the

Starting point is 00:20:30 platform, you need to be intentional. You need to make sure that each piece of content is doing what you wanted to do. You need to make sure that your interactions and conversations, they can be organic, but they need to be sort of achieving something at the same time. And I think that's often the trap a lot of people fall into is they just show up with. out a goal and then they end up doing everything and it takes over their life. And maybe in the worst case it leads to burnout so it's not really worth it. Exactly. And it happens way too often. Like it's happened to me before, especially in times where I've sort of not had a clear direction or a clear goal. And it puts off then sort of being

Starting point is 00:21:07 consistent, which is one of the most important parts of building trust with your audience. If you're posting, I don't know, for two, three weeks and then you jump off a platform for a month then you come back again for a couple of weeks, that consistency or lack of consistency isn't getting you anywhere. Yeah, exactly. Quick pause. This might save you a mild identity crisis. If you're building anything online,

Starting point is 00:21:31 podcast, content, personal brand, I will get a solo video on my YouTube breaking down what 150 episodes taught me, mostly the hard way. It's not about buying a better mind. It's not about gaming the algorithm. It's about structure, stay in power, and why most creators quit right before it starts working. It's on the same channel.

Starting point is 00:21:55 Go have a watch after this. And then, Kira, what is it, as we discuss this, what is it that helps you to stay consistent? Because, of course, it's not easy to show up regularly because sometimes you feel like it, sometimes not. So what is like your reason or your why or what helps you to keep showing up? So for me, it's helping other people sort of find a life and career that they're really passionate about. I know the power of having a personal brand and the power it has and actually being able to help you maneuver and change career paths. So for me, it's really helping people, whether they're in a business or whether they're in a career, actually find something they're super passionate about and using their personal brand as that sort of vessel to get them there. I like it.

Starting point is 00:22:41 And I think good question is something that many people struggle with, is when you are starting out, how to find your first clients or any advice, how to do it, because obviously there is a competition, it's hard, especially if you don't have a portfolio or any referral. So what would you advise? Exactly. Yeah, I think your point about the portfolio actually is a very good one, because even if you haven't had clients before, you can still create that portfolio for yourself. So you can do lot of projects. you can sort of make up situations yourself. Sometimes you could put like a prompt into chat GPT for example and say like pretend you're a client in this industry who needs X, Y and Z and then go through the motions yourself of working with that client and then build that into a portfolio.

Starting point is 00:23:26 They don't always have to be sort of real results to start with. They can be sort of just showing your process in the way you're working and that speaks to a lot of people. I think second to that is actually just getting out there and making connections. You don't know. know where, sort of where those things are going to leave. Like there's some conversations I've had with people a couple of years ago. And then they reach out sort of like nine months later being like, I loved what you said back then. Like I'm really interested in what you do now, like how we work together. So I think don't underestimate the power of actually just having conversations with people. You can be transparent and open. Be like, I'm just starting out,

Starting point is 00:24:01 sort of talk about what you do, what makes you different. Learn to articulate those things well. And you never know where they, they will sort of leave in the long term. So that, that's, That's what I'd say my main advice would be is, yeah, making relationships with people. Yeah. It was a great point when you said that someone reached out a bit later because sometimes it might feel like that you are posting, but no one maybe is really following or paying attention. But you never know if there is someone who's been following you for a long time in the background and they are maybe just waiting for a perfect moment or when they need you.

Starting point is 00:24:34 And then as you said, maybe after a few months, they may just land in your inbox that is just a perfect Simon. Exactly. And I think people often think personal branding, especially when they see sort of like influencers and people going viral, that personal branding is going to be an overnight thing in like 99 times. It's a long term growth sort of strategy. And you can't be thinking that you're going to be getting instant leads into your business, instant job offers as soon as you start posting. Like it's a long game. And that's one of the reasons why, like I always talk about having like a good, content plan, like having actual strategy because over time, you're going to be pushing people sort of further towards wanting to work with you or reach out with you. And that's really

Starting point is 00:25:18 important to remember because, yeah, it doesn't happen overnight and you need to be sort of putting in those foundations over time actually sort of lead people in the right direction. Yep, I agree. And, Kira, when we look at especially your work, like, who are actually the people that you work with? I remember it's founders, but is there like any focus or any niche? No real niche. I know a lot of people say it's super important to have a niche and I think I have, I've niched down a lot since I first sort of started. But yeah, I've worked with a range of different industries from sort of marketing to accounting to engineering. I like getting to know an industry and I find something really sort of rewarding about sort of stepping into someone's shoes, getting to

Starting point is 00:26:02 know the world they work in. And I just like learning about new industries and actually sort of helping them communicate something that seems very natural for them to talk about, but it's a lot harder for their audience to understand. They're like getting into the nitty-gritty of that and actually sort of, yeah, helping them speak about what they do eloquently and in a way it resonates. Actually, like what you said, that is true that people often say, it's one of those, come on buzzwords or topic, you have to niche down. But as you said, I actually relate to it that when it's something that this may be new, that you don't have to niche on something, but it's like a new area or a new, I don't know, focus or industry.

Starting point is 00:26:40 It's actually, I think, what makes it exciting. It's something new to explore and at the same time a bit challenging for you. Exactly. It tests your skills and it tests your processes. And I think it really sort of hones your skills because it's all right saying I can help clients for an Instagram girl on LinkedIn, for example, but you've only ever tried it with marketing clients. So you know it works for a marketing founder,

Starting point is 00:27:01 but do you know that same concept applies to other industries as well? And I think having that data really reinforces whether your methods work or whether they don't work. And it's not that, but it is fun and it is interesting getting to know other people in different industries. And it opens your mind and helps you understand how different things work. Exactly. And I think sometimes what is actually maybe more important, or at least for me, is who's actually the person? Because if it's someone who's nice to work with, I don't mind what's the industry. because it just makes it enjoyable, kind of better relationship

Starting point is 00:27:36 rather than it's someone who you really hate to work with but it's from your favorite industry or something like that. Exactly, definitely. And I think we have to be happy with who we're working with. We perform our best, don't we? As content creators and writers and copywriters and strategists when we're sort of really in love with the work that we're doing. So if the thing for you is finding the right person,

Starting point is 00:27:57 then I think it doesn't matter necessarily what industry they're in. if you can get good sort of ideas from them, there's someone that communicates well. It doesn't matter for industry they're in. You can apply the same method to something different. So yeah, I don't think you should ever limit yourself by a niche. It's good sometimes in marketing obviously to have that focus. So when you're sort of solving that one problem for one person, it makes your marketing more focus,

Starting point is 00:28:19 but you don't have to limit the actual work that you do to that particular niche at all. I completely agree. When it comes, Kira, to people that you work with, what are some common challenges or mistakes that you see across the people that you are helping? So I think one of the most common ones I see sits around like consistency and then consistent in terms of cadence or how often they're posting. And then secondly, consistency of message. So often there's just a lot of posting with very little structure behind it, no set topics,

Starting point is 00:28:55 no set pillars. And that then makes it really hard to build authority because you're not. not known for anything in particular. You're talking about talking on different things. And then you go offline for two weeks as well, which doesn't help the situation. And you're not known for anything yourself. So that's probably one of the most common things I see. And that often comes down to a lack of time, which is completely understandable because as a business owner, as someone that has a minor five, you don't have all day to be spending on LinkedIn. You don't have hours to be creating content. So for me, what I like to do is help people sort of create strong pillars,

Starting point is 00:29:29 strong topics, strong subtopics, and then help them repurpose those into loads of different content types they can then use across the board. And that massively helps that because time I think is often the biggest problem I hear. But when we dig deeper, it's actually because there's no clear system behind content creation, which then translates as lack of time. So yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I see is just lack of consistency across the board. That's a great point to what you said. For example, repurposing that I can see it like with the podcast, that it gives you so much of content.

Starting point is 00:30:02 So it doesn't need to be with the podcast, but even something else, if you know how, if you are smart about it, you don't have to spend so much time on it. And I agree and understand that for people, it might be hard to, like,

Starting point is 00:30:15 let others delegate or help them. But in the end, it just saves you so much time, pain and headache, and you get advice from someone who's, social experience or in the end. That would just recommend it. Yeah, definitely. It's one of those things I think it's good that you can do it for yourself and I think I always like to put people in the position that they can do it for themselves long term but writing content is hard and you have to get

Starting point is 00:30:39 into the practice of doing it yourself and it takes a long time to find something that you're comfortable with. So if in the short term it means delegating gets some getting someone to support you, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think I'm such a sort of strong believer that personal branding should always come from the person behind the brand. So there should always be very strong influence from that person, rather than completely handing over the reins to a ghostwriter, and never communicates with you and just does what they think is right. But I think short-term delegation and helping you stay consistent

Starting point is 00:31:08 is completely valid to sort of outsource and get someone to support you. Yes, I agree. And Kira, looking at actually your brand or what you offer, like on brandfulness, I really like the title, brandfulness. Is it something that you came up with or was the story behind it? I think it sounds really cool. Yeah, there's a little bit of a story behind it. So when I first started out, I was sort of very, again, from coming from a psychology background, I did a lot of research on burnout and hustle culture and all this sort of thing. And I was really passionate about sort of being intentional with your

Starting point is 00:31:42 time and being intentional with the way that you work to avoid those things. So brandfulness is a combination of what's the brand and then mindfulness, like intentional slowing down and sort of being really sort of thoughtful about your action. So it's a combination of those two together. And obviously when I first started, I never, I never thought I was going to sort of start a business out of it. But it's stuck and it stayed. And I'm quite happy with sort of the name because it does reflect the way that I work sort of that very intentional, very strategic, making your time worth it versus sort of doing loads of things for the sake of it. No, it's why it's stuck in my mind. And I think it's unique, it sounds cool.

Starting point is 00:32:21 And at the same time, you can see that's related to brand and probably something related to being mindful. So to me, it sounds unique and smart. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad you like it. And another one is the authority collective. So can you say more about it as well and introduce it? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:38 So this is a bit of a new concept. But for me, obviously, I serve two very different audiences. So I serve sort of my more like corporate teams, working with sort of founders, executives and then their teams to grow personal brands. And obviously I then work a lot with individuals as well. So the authority collective and the idea here is basically to be serving my individuals. So my solopreneurs, my entrepreneurs, my nine to fivers who need help growing their own personal brands. And it's going to be like basically a bank of resources, digital products, things they can DIY and do themselves. Because you don't always want to be reaching out to a

Starting point is 00:33:15 strategist when you're just getting started yourself. So it's basically helping sort of of people on their own, grow their personal brand, have all the tools that I can give them to succeed, they can then go forward themselves to basically, yeah, grow their brand on LinkedIn or in their jobs or sort of for their business. So it's like a community, right? Yes. Eventually it'll be a community to start off with it. It's just going to be sort of this hub resources, digital products, things like that. And then eventually, hopefully we'll turn it into a community space. But yeah, it's very early stages right now. I'm sort of testing the waters a little bit with it and sort of experimenting and building it out from there.

Starting point is 00:33:51 I was going to ask you if you know when you're going to launch it or just in the future at some point. So the aim for the digital products is in early March, maybe late February, depending on the timeline. So very soon, it's all in progress. And the community hopefully sort of end of this year will be in place. It's very much, I don't want to put too much pressure on it for myself. I like to sort of make sure things are how I want them to be before, before they go live. Yeah, of course. And it's obviously hard to juggle everything and manage to do it all. Exactly. There's so much to do as well. And I think a lot of what goes into building a community and goes into sort of building digital products is actually testing and iterating and making sure they're serving a purpose. Because obviously with a service, I can, I'm there to talk with a person and we can iterate and change the go. But when you're sort of giving a product for someone to use, you want to make sure it's sort of working for loads of different niches, industries, different types of people. So yeah, it's a lot of testing. going on behind the scenes. Yeah. And Kira, something that is really cool is that we both have

Starting point is 00:34:55 green color in our branding. And because you are focused on psychology or you've got this background, there are some reasoning or thinking behind color of your brand. Yes, definitely. I think green is always associated with sort of health and calm. That's sort of where the mindful bit comes in. But it's also associated with sort of trust, which is really what my brand is all about, like that trust field side of things. So yeah, green seemed like a perfect bit. And so it's my favorite color, so it does. I like it. I know that I might be biased, but that's a good choice. Yeah, no, it is. And it stands out as well. I think a lot of branding you see on LinkedIn, especially, is similar colors. And I think green actually often stands out because it's not a color that a lot of people

Starting point is 00:35:42 go with. So it just starts up. Let's hope that after this, there will not be many more emerges. So, Kira, we discussed LinkedIn, but what about the other platforms? I know you mentioned before Instagram. I saw that you are on substack, maybe not that active yet, but what are your plans or where are you present? So Instagram I am on, but have taken a little bit of a breakover there for a while, mainly because I'm having some new branding done and I really wanted it home down sort of what I was doing with the platform.

Starting point is 00:36:15 I think LinkedIn has become my safe place. I enjoy creating content there I find creating content for LinkedIn a lot easier. I do enjoy creating content of Instagram, but for me it takes a lot longer and it takes a lot more sort of capacity. So I think for me, I wanted to be really intentional on one platform consistently before I started jumping back over into Instagram. So yeah, Instagram, hopefully some point in the next month or so will be back on that properly. And then substack is a new one for me. So here I want to sort of center my brand around sort of the corporate team and sort of founder branding that I do and really dig a lot deeper into that because it's

Starting point is 00:36:53 something that I don't hear talked about much and it's a great place of long form content which again can be translated across LinkedIn. Yeah, sounds great. And on LinkedIn you are hitting beautiful milestone. Who knows when we release this? Maybe you hit it already. But of course, we don't want to really focus on numbers, but still, it's a beautiful milestone. So I don't know Have you got any kind of celebration or plans when you did it? Not really, actually. When I did my 10K, I didn't, it sort of happened without we really, really knowing. And then I said, I'll celebrate next time.

Starting point is 00:37:28 So no, I haven't. But I think it is a good, it's always a good signal to know that your content's resonating and that you're sort of like building community and actually building those trust with people. But for me, more recently, I sort of changed my content style to really sort of be pushing on the authority content, speaking to my sort of ideal client a lot more than I was before. So growth has slowed a little bit, but that's all been intentional because the shift of my content has changed, really. So yeah, still looking forward to it when it comes, though.

Starting point is 00:37:57 I know that you don't want to chase the numbers, but at the same time, it's kind of a nice reward for showing up and for all the work and to see that it resonates with people and you've got like your community who follow you. It's a proof point, isn't it, at the end of the day. It shouldn't be our only proof point, but it is going to be a single. of your credibility, that that people enjoy what you write about, your content is well written, etc. So, yeah, it's always a good one to look at. Exactly. And we discussed already what you're working on, what you're going to work on,

Starting point is 00:38:27 but are there any additional plans or goals that you've got either for this year or even more long term? And you haven't mentioned yet? I'm not really, I guess. The focus for me really is this year, digital products to get those back out into the world again. I started off quite heavily in the digital. product world and when I started because that's what my previous business was in but pulled away from it to focus more on sort of building my brand up but definitely I want to move back into that space maybe even have some sort of physical products as well so like an actual planner and guide for people to sort of physically hold it and work through I know I work a lot better on an actual notebook and an

Starting point is 00:39:06 actual bit of paper so I think I want to produce that helps people that are like me that need something physical to work on. So yeah, that's definitely a goal for this year, but a longer-term goal. And other than that, it's just continuing to grow in the same way. I completely understand because already got planned so cannot overstretch too much until it becomes overwhelming. Exactly. You have to tick one thing off, don't you, before you focus on the next one. I agree. And, yeah, before we finish, I like to ask kind of lighter questions. So what is it that you like to do in your free time? Or what? What are some of your hobbies?

Starting point is 00:39:42 So I love running. It's one of my sort of favorite things to do outside of work, hopefully doing a half marathon at the end of the year. So going to have to solve a bit more of an intensive training plan. But right now I'm just going to carry on enjoying the runs as it is. And now you said that publicly, so we will have experience. I know. Yeah, at least it holds me accountable.

Starting point is 00:40:08 some of them want to go back out. And then on top of that, I actually quite like doing Macrame. I don't know if you've heard of it before. It's sort of a... Sorry, what is it? It's called Macrame. I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:40:20 What is it? It's sort of like a... It's basically like knots, but you... I don't know how to explain it well, but it's sort of like not tying, but to create like bags and sort of like place mats or wall hangings

Starting point is 00:40:31 and things like that. And I started this quite recently and it seems quite an abstract thing to start, but in the evenings, is I really struggled to shut down after work and actually having something to do and take my mind off and focus on like a little project. Actually really helps me sort of wind down and stop thinking about my day-to-day work. So, yeah, that's sort of something I've enjoyed doing.

Starting point is 00:40:53 I probably butcher the definition of McCrame for anyone listening. It's really good at it and do it as well. I'm trying to think, is it like something like knitting if that's the work? Yeah, so it's almost like, have you heard of crocheting? which uses. I don't think so. I'm not going to tell. But yeah, it's basically sort of like a sort of a knotting and weaving sort of art. You can create like wall hangings and bags and things like that. You don't have to create anything exciting. It's just more of like the process of sort of having a process to go through. No, it's understood. I will make sure to research after. Moneyjo actually

Starting point is 00:41:32 discovered or came across this. I was actually at a craft fair and I was just looking at around the different stalls and I came across a lady there like a local business and she had like the most beautiful wall hangings she had different bags and like placements and things and I was thinking that was really interesting and she also had some like DIY starter kits so I bought one and I tried it and I really enjoyed it so I sort of carried on doing that I mean that sounds cool yeah more than kira do you read the books and if so have you got any recommendations yes so I love reading I try to balance like fiction and nonfiction, but my main sort of recommendations really are start with why by Simon Sinek. It's one of my favourite books and again it sort of links a lot with what I do.

Starting point is 00:42:19 It's really sort of focused on that like having a strong why and purpose behind what you do things and that's how some of the biggest brands in the world have become the biggest brands and have succeeded because they have this really strong why the people connect with. And so I'd say that's my biggest recommendation. Another one is surrounded by idiots which is great at understanding how other people work and I love atomic habits as well which is all about habit building and systems etc which I bring a lot into my work as well yes those are some amazing tips you know just about to add that for people who maybe don't want to read the whole book or though I recommend it too there's also amazing

Starting point is 00:42:54 TED talk the Simon Sienek did about the why I think I actually saw it before the book and I thought oh wow what is this some kind of video and then I said I was like wow it's actually big and very important Yeah, no, definitely. There's so many other ways that you can sort of gather this information. There are sort of like TED Talks out there and loads of different ways that you can sort of access the same information. I also like listening to audiobooks as well. Sometimes whilst you should digest the information whilst you're doing something else versus sitting down and reading. And you also mentioned fiction, if I'm not mistaken, although I do not really read fiction,

Starting point is 00:43:30 but for people who do any recommendations as well? I haven't got any specific recommendations. I'm really bad at remembering fiction book names, but I'm definitely sort of a crime thriller sort of genre person. There's anything in that category I love, but I haven't got any specific names that I can give to you. Yeah, no, no, no, no. And then we discuss it,

Starting point is 00:43:53 but can you curious summarize where people can find you, follow you and promote any of your services? Yeah, so the best place to find me is obviously on LinkedIn. It's where I spend most of my time. So it's just, obviously, LinkedIn normal URL with Kira O'Neill. And then I have my Instagram, which is underscore brandfulness, where I post a little bit more sort of like the behind the scenes and sort of the me behind the business, really. And then you've got my website, which is obviously, brandfulness.com.

Starting point is 00:44:21 Yes. And as always, I will add any links to the show notes. And then very last question, Kira, is there anything I should have asked you at it not or anything to live the audience with? No, I don't think so. I think that's like the thing. Then I want to say a big thank you. I really enjoyed it. Although it took us a little while to schedule it.

Starting point is 00:44:44 I'm really glad we did it. Yes, thank you. Been following, I enjoy content not only because of the green branding, but I think you do really great work. And I like your ambitions, some great plans. So we'll be following and supporting. And once again, thank you for a time. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so lovely to chat with you.

Starting point is 00:45:04 Thanks for listening to Produce by with Tomen. Check the show notes for all the links. And don't forget to subscribe, like and share your feedback. Speak soon.

Produced By - Psychology In Practice: How People Decide Who To Trust | 141: Ciara O'Neil

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