Produced By - Reviewing Reality: Examining Games and Music with a Journalist's Pen | #49: Ramy Abou-Setta

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello, Remy, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.

Starting point is 00:00:22 Thank you for the invite and I look forward to speaking about the world of journalism, music journalism specifically and answer all the questions you have. and yeah, I have a proper discussion about it. Cool. So can you please, Rami, introduce yourself? So my name is Rami Abbaseta. I'm a freelance journalist. I've written for Clash Magazine, Luke Magazine, Y Now, The Dairy Journal, and a few other places across the online publications. I've been writing since I was 14, but I've been writing in music specifically since around 2019. And, yeah, it's been a great.

Starting point is 00:01:00 experience so far, continuing to grow and learn about different aspects of the industry and how it's evolving at the moment, especially with AI and stuff like that. So it's definitely a really interesting industry to be a part of and really experienced from the inside out. Yeah, that sounds exciting because I think I haven't spoken with a journalist yet. So yeah, sounds cool. And can you tell us more about your background, where you come from? What was it like? Yeah, no. I was born in London, so I was born in Chelsea. My parents are both my mum's Algerian and my dad's Egyptian. So I come from two different North African nations. And my life's a bit unorthodox. I grew up in London or in England until I was about seven. I lived in London until I was about two, moved to Brighton when I was two. Then we left Brighton. when I was seven to go to Algeria because my parents were missionaries. So I lived in Algeria until around 2011.

Starting point is 00:02:08 And then after that, we moved to Spain. So I can continue my education, my British education. And then we left Spain in 2016 to move back to the UK. We moved back to Brighton. And now I'm in Londonderry finishing my NCTJ, which is the qualification you need to become an official journalist to work for. We don't really need it to work for the industry. It just helps in terms of you have that piece of paper that's a qualified journalist.

Starting point is 00:02:37 So, yeah. So when did you become interested in journalism or writing or creativity? I'd say around when I was 14 when I was a kid. I used to read a lot, definitely. And at the time, I think something, I think it was Charlie Hebdo. that that whole situation in Paris was happening and I was getting more involved in it I was trying to keep up with it and the news

Starting point is 00:03:02 and trying to understand why it happened and what was going on and I think that that intrigue and that kind of need to know what was happening and also reading everybody else's perspectives on it I was like oh well they're coming at it from a very close-minded perspective

Starting point is 00:03:21 not closed-minded perspective necessarily but a very kind of one-track mind about it they're not understanding the nuances or the context behind it, especially because there was cultural significance as to why what happened, it was a tragedy in general, but the way it was covered was kind of like, it was bound to happen because of what they did

Starting point is 00:03:40 because of the art that was created and stuff like that. So ever since then, and I was 14 at the time, so I didn't really understand everything, but at the same time, I did have a general idea because of my background. And then ever since then, I kind of, yeah, I was really interested in trying to focus on it.

Starting point is 00:03:58 So I started off, and I know it sounds weird because I went from one serious topic to like entertainment, but I started off as video game in video game journalism because that was what I was into at the time. And I was like, okay, well, start my, if I'm going to start writing about something I'm passionate about, let me start writing about this. And yeah, it just kept on growing and growing and growing from there. I did a lot of poetry as well growing up. So that kind of helps with the creative aspects of things and then kind of letting my pen fly a little bit.

Starting point is 00:04:30 So I've always been interested in that sort of thing. But I think the moment I kind of knew, I was like journalism was the thing was, I think roughly around the Charlie Hebdo incident in France. And I understand it's difficult and probably complex topic, but maybe briefly for someone who doesn't know, can you just introduce? What was it? You're taking me back here. I believe there was a press publication in France. Don't quote me on this, but I believe that there was a press publication in France

Starting point is 00:05:07 that drew a quite rude picture of the Prophet Muhammad from the Quran, who's one of the main prophets in Islam. And I believe ISIS backed it, but I'm not sure about the details exactly. I just know that there was a section of extremist Muslims or Islamists that didn't take too kindly to what happened. So they stormed the offices and killed everybody that was,

Starting point is 00:05:37 or the majority of people that were in those offices. So it was a very dark day in terms of Paris, in terms of the press, in terms of just terrorism in general, because this was just off the back of a lot of things that were, happening in Syria and Iraq as well. So there was a lot going on and this kind of sparked a huge issue because it was in Europe in the main city as well. So yeah, it was very much a tragedy especially because it was just freedom of expression.

Starting point is 00:06:11 That was another thing that was wrapped into it was freedom of expression and people are getting killed because they were, yeah, they were expressing themselves in a yes, it might have insulted a few people by the same time that is part of freedom of expression. And unfortunately, you shouldn't either way, even if you're in sodder, I don't think you have the right to kill someone or to terrorize someone because someone wants to express how they feel about a situation, especially if it's set up or in the news. So, yeah. Yeah, thank you.

Starting point is 00:06:46 It was just to provide some context, but don't want to die. more into such unfortunate situation. And you said then you started writing about the games. So did you write just for yourself? Did you start a blog or social media? I started off with a blog back when blog post was a really big thing. It's not as much about word test now. But yeah, at the time I had a blog, I did it for a few weeks, I think.

Starting point is 00:07:17 Or no, a few months. It was during Christmas and a few months. and then I started writing for different websites. I started pitching my work because I already had work up there. I started pitching my work and getting volunteer work as well with like these small little fanatic websites. And then I just kind of started working my way out from there. And like the more publication I'd work for, the higher up I'd go.

Starting point is 00:07:40 And it's just how the hierarchy kind of works in terms of that. So yeah, I started off like doing reviews, finding my own news. like I'd go to get my press releases and stuff like that about about new video games that are coming out either by independent publishers or like the bigger news as well. I saw that a lot of people actually engaging with the writing and my numbers were pretty good. So I use that kind of to my advantage to start working for the more established websites and then just working my up that way and doing news, doing video game reviews, interviewing CEO, like some of the CEOs of companies, like publishing companies and video game designing companies and stuff like that. And then, yeah, just worked way out from there. That was around, I'd say 2015, 2016, roughly around then. So, yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:34 Yeah, it sounds exciting. You both worked, you did the job that you enjoyed, which was the writing, and combine it with your passion as a game. As you said, if you interviewed even CEOs, it sounds like a good start. Yeah, no, it was, I didn't, at the time, I didn't realize it. Like, obviously, it was exciting. And I was like, oh, this is so cool. But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, that was a pretty, like, impressive thing to do at my age. And I guess it made me realize I could actually do this as a career.

Starting point is 00:09:08 I could actually pursue this. And I can make writing something more than just a whole. really and it definitely helped me hone my craft because if I looked back at some of the questions I used to ask I'm sorry those were not good questions can you can you share can you share some it was kind of like oh like why did you choose this color rather than this color more rather than why did why did you create this character and this in this certain design or and stuff like that was very simple obviously because I was I was young so it was a bit Yeah, I was just learning how to really the craft of asking questions to get the right answers.

Starting point is 00:09:50 But as time's going on, my questions have got way better. So thank God. Yeah. And did you just continue kind of progressing or did you also decide to study at school at university or some courses? So I did want to study journalism. I wanted to study journalism since I was around, I'd say again, 13, 14. I knew that that was kind of like the career path I wanted to go down. But because of the way my unorthodox life kind of worked,

Starting point is 00:10:25 I needed to come back to England to redo my A-levels. Because when I moved to England, it was at the time when they moved from AS and A-level to just A-level. So they combined the two. I don't know if you're aware of that. So it used to be that year 12 and year 13 were separate years. And they would both have separate kind of, yeah, like your AS level would count towards your UCAS points. And your A level would be like double that or even more or be worth more points than the AS level.

Starting point is 00:11:02 But then they completely scrapped the AS level idea and I had AS levels. So when I moved back to the UK, I actually redo two years. years to go further. So I went to college. It didn't really work out. And then after that, I just kept on trying to figure out a way to get back into that field. So it took a few years by the time. And during that time, I left writing for a little bit.

Starting point is 00:11:28 I was like, you know what? Let me take a break. Let me try and figure my stuff out. And then I came back. So that's when I left video games and then realized, okay, I'm not as passionate. about this anymore. Let me try and find something I am really passionate about now, which at the time, and it kind of still is now as well, was music. And then in 2019, I started writing for Clash Magazine. So it was kind of like, I did some formal education. I also did

Starting point is 00:11:59 not do any formal education. And then it just kind of meshed all together and worked out in the So as you started writing for music, did you basically use your previous skills from writing, just transferred it from different industry to the other one? Yes. Video game writing has its own nuances because you have to understand the game you're playing. You have to understand the mechanics. You have to understand how to review it because when it comes to reviewing games, it's not just the sound or the aesthetic

Starting point is 00:12:34 or whatever it is, it's you have the graphics, you have the gameplay, you have the sound design, you have the how it all meshes together, you have the character, the story, like there's so many different aspects of video games that you have to review and actually look into what makes a good game really.

Starting point is 00:12:51 Whereas with music, it's more about understanding the nuances of sound. It's understanding a bit of music theory as well. You have to understand And also the world the artist is trying to create in terms of if it's, if the albums are in a series and they're like trying to create this massive soundscape world, you have to understand how does this fit into that or is this a standalone album and then stuff of that. So there are nuances when it comes to music that you wouldn't find in video games. And I think music is more in depth when it comes to reviews. And they allow a breadth of kind of expressionism when you're reviewing them.

Starting point is 00:13:31 because you have to be emotive when you're talking about music because it is an emotive thing. It is something that pulls at your heartstrings. It is something that is emotional. Do you know what I mean? It's something that really touches your core. Whereas video games, you could be a bit more technical or like way more technical and not really focus on any of those side of things

Starting point is 00:13:55 or the emotions. So I feel like with the music journalism, it allows, at least with me, it allowed me to kind of tap into more being able to express something, being able to really give like hyperboles and metaphors and stuff like that and really delve into, okay, this sounds like this because of this and this and this and this. So it allows, yeah, I think it's using those skills, but also to a very much a higher degree at a deeper level really.

Starting point is 00:14:28 So, yeah. And is it also focused on specific genre or is it basically maybe what they give you you need to work with it or you can pick like I want to work let's say with this genre and not this one? Yeah. When you're starting off, I well even now to be fair it's whatever you're given. So like at first I was only hip hop and I'd only focus on hip hop. That's because that's what I was listening to at the time and that's what I knew very well. like I grew up listening to Kendrick Lamarj, J. Cole, Drake, Eminem and all those stuff. So I was very much in that world and I very much understood all the nuances and stuff like that. But then as time went on and my features got bigger, it would be like I'd be reviewing an indie album like Inhaler's most recent album or even like Afrobeats and rock or even like Taylor Swift. midnight and stuff like that. So it would get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and the nuances would get larger and larger. So it's kind of like in the world of, I believe at least in the world

Starting point is 00:15:39 of journalism, you're kind of, you have to work with everything and whatever's kind of put in front of you, whatever you find exciting is something that you have, like, you should be writing about. Yeah, I do believe that there should be people dedicated to different genres, especially if they're experts, that's it. And because it will just make more sense. also believe that you should be open-minded and be able to be flexible in that way where if somebody does throw an indie album your way you'd be able to pick up and go I can dig with that, I can listen to this, I can do my research and actually understand what this is about and the nuances with it and review it truthfully and to a true degree rather than

Starting point is 00:16:22 I don't understand this type thing. So do you consider yourself to be the person who would be able to review any type of music? That's a question. To a degree, yes. I mean, any type of, let's say, normal music within boundaries, maybe not something super weird. In terms of modern music, yes. I believe that if you give me an album, I'll be able to review it. Like, for example, the new Green Day album, I'd be able to review that.

Starting point is 00:16:55 It's not necessarily something I've ventured into before. or like done it on a professional level but at the same time I believe if you give me the album I'd be able to review it to a pretty high standard now if you give me a classic album as in classical music that would be a different story I'd be able to

Starting point is 00:17:15 describe it really well and be like this evokes this and moves into this and like the movement and stuff like that but I wouldn't be able to go into like the different instruments and the different like keys they played and the different chords they played and why they played the specific chord and why this about this sort of motion because that is a bit more i believe with that you not necessarily that you'd have to have like a degree in it but you have to have some level of appreciation i love classical music but you have to have like a very very deep understanding and appreciation for that type of music to be able to review at a high standard like one of the art forms i'd love to be able to review is jazz i love jazz like so much by the same time

Starting point is 00:17:59 it's a very difficult music to review and it's a very difficult music to describe because it has a very specific audience who know what they're talking about and who know that you write something that doesn't match up for what they believe in or what they understand this to be true you'll hear it basically so yeah if that makes sense yeah and is there still a specific genre, maybe hip-hop that you prefer or you consider yourself to be the most expert in or after experience, you are kind of good in everything? I'd say hip-hop is still probably the top one for me just because of how much I used to listen to it and I still do listen to it quite a bit. So I'd say hip-hop is still definitely up there. I understand the nuances of it. I even did music product, like I can produce hip-hop beats and stuff like that, and I have a very deep appreciation for rap. So I believe that is still probably my number one genre

Starting point is 00:19:08 that I'm able to write him. But I also do love indie and rock and all those other genres, and I have a deep appreciation for them, but I'd say definitely hip-hop is probably up there as my number one. As you said to you, Do you produce music do you also rap? I used to.

Starting point is 00:19:30 I can admit that in my younger days. I used to for fun. I never really did anything with it. I didn't want to go out there. I knew I didn't want to be an artist or anything like that. I just I did it for fun. It was like a side thing to poetry. Something I did for a while.

Starting point is 00:19:45 Like when I went, because I did, I studied music business. It was one of my projects to create an album. So I created a rap album and then did it. way it's never to touch the light of day but that's a shame I was going to say if you released it it would be fun it would be fun but at the same time there's a lot of things that I think especially as I'm going into the world of journalism I'd rather that didn't come out you know what I mean so yeah and I think maybe there

Starting point is 00:20:21 will be very high expectations because you as someone And I don't think I meet those expectations, so I'd want to be like, I'll leave the rapping to the professionals. And I'll just talk about the type thing. And I wonder when there is a, let's say, big release, big album, you know, plenty of big audience waiting for it. Do you feel like, do you, or are excited to review it so that you are kind of, you've got a privilege to review such a big one or are you more worried and stressed that there will be a lot of eyes looking at you because people have big expectations so how do you feel about it when you're in such a situation that is a very good question um i don't feel i don't think that i've ever

Starting point is 00:21:17 been worried about the eyes on the project i would look at it as there's a lot of expectation for this project. A lot of people waiting to listen to it. There's a lot of expectation. I think the best one I can think of that came out now that I did a review one that was huge at the time was the weekend. After I was, not afterlife, after I was probably his biggest release in the last decade. I was given the album to review, basically.

Starting point is 00:21:49 And I understood its significance and its importance. and I knew that I'd have to write like a really good review, but I don't think I ever felt like, oh, let me change my words because of it would hit a wrong chord with people. And I've always had that in me where I'm like, I'm not changing my words no matter what it could evoke in someone or if somebody doesn't appreciate it. By the same time, I did feel excited and privileged

Starting point is 00:22:21 to be able to review that album, which is something you mentioned. It was a, especially that album because it, again, it changed the trajectory of his music. So it was a really impactful album to his musical career. And I knew it's significant by the same time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:37 I didn't feel necessarily the pressure from having eyes on the article or anything of that sort. So, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question to the rest of your video. Yeah. Yeah. It does. So then when you, do you actually follow the feedback afterwards, whether from, I don't know, the publisher or even the audience?

Starting point is 00:23:02 And if so, how do you deal with it? I try not to focus on it too much because there are sometimes where an album doesn't do well and I don't review it well. Or like I give it like five out of ten. I don't want to see the comments after that unless, yeah, because there are multiple times where I have had. my reviews compared to other people's reviews and it starts to get to your head a little bit and it starts to be like oh did we say the same thing did we not say the same thing and is it wrong to have two like two people have the same opinion and stuff like that and it starts to really get to you and i remember early on in my in my career stuff like that would get to me um

Starting point is 00:23:45 i don't know if you know this guy his name is anthony fantano he's a very like big on youtube he does There's a lot of, he has a show called The Needle Drop where he does a lot of album reviews on hip-hop albums and stuff like that. And he's very famous, but he used to watch him quite a bit. I still do like checking on his stuff. Definitely check him out. He does some pretty good videos. There was a time I reviewed the Denzel Curry album that was coming out. He did a collaboration project, Kenny Beetz.

Starting point is 00:24:12 This was a huge project at the time, and it did really good for Clash as well. But there were a few things that I said that were very, in right. because I do my advice, he did his audio. There are some things I said in writing that mirrored a lot of what he said in his review. And a lot of people started coming at me saying, oh, you just copy this review or you just did this or you just did this. And I was just starting at my career music then. So it was a bit like I started to feel like, oh, did I do that? Subconsciously, did I just write what he was saying?

Starting point is 00:24:47 But in reality, that wasn't the case because I didn't watch. his video until after I wrote my review. So it was a bit, it was a bit of a weird one. Yeah, so it was a quiz because we just both thought the same thing about the, the album, which it was, it was a great album. So, yeah, there are moments like that where you don't want to look at the feedback because of the impact it can have. And I think social media has, has that kind of hold on some people where they're just like, they can say

Starting point is 00:25:20 whatever they want about someone writing a review. They could diss the writer, this, the album, they can do all of that stuff. They don't really realize that their words have impact on the people writing it. Because at the end of the day, the person that's writing it is just writing it as their opinion on what they heard. They're giving their thoughts on what the project is

Starting point is 00:25:41 and how it made, yeah, how it works sonically with the rest of their work, really. So, yeah. but when you do get the feedback, it does help. It is a nice thing to see, especially if somebody says that it's a good read, or they really like reading your writing. And I think it, for me, like, the highest praise I've got,

Starting point is 00:26:05 or like the thing I've held on to the most is when, like, an artist or a publisher comes to you and goes, I appreciated the review because it gives honest feedback, constructive criticism and stuff like that, because that's something I've wanted to do. I don't want to just be like, oh, this is good, this is good, this is good. I'll also tell you what's bad in it and what could be done better in the future and stuff like that

Starting point is 00:26:26 to make sure that the artists understand the criticism from a listener's perspective so that they can have more of a direct kind of understanding with the listenership. So I believe that reviewers have that position in music journalism where you owe it to not only the fan base and the listeners, but also to the artist

Starting point is 00:26:56 to be that medium between the two where you're relaying what's so good about this album by the same time you're also relaying, this didn't work, it's not your best work, and here's where you can do better to make it a better experience for yourself, but also for the listener as well. Yeah, yeah. So I was surprised when you said that even artists reach out

Starting point is 00:27:18 must be great that you know one thing that they even read the review to maybe you know learn from it and improve and even take effort to to text someone who listens to the music and you know puts the work into actually write about artists are great people they generally are of them are really really nice people and i've had the pleasure to work with a lot of lovely artists and they usually are very down to earth, very complimentary, they appreciate the sport, they appreciate, even taking the time to listen to their album, or even review their album, or even interview them

Starting point is 00:27:58 and stuff like that there. I haven't come across a lot of artists that have been kind of like too in their own head type thing. So it has been a pleasure, but you really see the appreciation more obviously from smaller artists. and independent artists because they're doing it off their own back. So they really appreciate any support they get. And especially if you give them a good review with some constructive criticism,

Starting point is 00:28:28 they really do take it on board because they're trying to learn and they're trying to make themselves get to the top of the industry. But, yeah, no, it's been good to have that experience really with the artists. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay

Starting point is 00:29:04 up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. And I was thinking, can you maybe briefly give us a little introduction of the process, how you review the work. I would be curious to hear both game and album. So if you can, can we start maybe with the game and then the album? I'll start with game and that I can tell.

Starting point is 00:29:31 Yeah. With game, basically I'd read up. I do some research as to the developer, the publisher of the game and understand why the game was made, how long it took is it, a sequel to a series, what type of game is it really. I try to understand the genre a little bit as well. So let's say if it's a role-playing game,

Starting point is 00:29:56 understand what type of role-player game, what direction they went in, maybe you'd listen to or like look into some of the early development videos because they usually do a lot of YouTube videos where the developers talk about the game and how they designed it and stuff like that. So I'd look into all of that. And then I'd play it.

Starting point is 00:30:13 jump in, play it. I'd focus, I tried not to have any distractions and really, really like, focus on the game itself. So I'd have my headphones and wherever it is and listen to all the sounds, see how the menu works, see how all the game works. I try and complete the game as quickly as possible. I play as in depth as possible by the same time. If you're working to a deadline, you do need to finish the game at a certain point. So I try to finish the game And yeah

Starting point is 00:30:45 I'd be taking notes When I see stuff that Like perk my ears or putting my eyes or whatever it is Like let's say there's a lot of character Development I'd write about that There's like certain game playing mechanics that I'd really well done I'd write about that But I'd also do the same

Starting point is 00:31:01 If I found negatives where I'm like okay This game mechanic doesn't work This game mechanic doesn't work It stops the flow of the game And then after that, after that process done, I'd start kind of sectioning it out and writing it in a way

Starting point is 00:31:15 that's like, okay, here's the introduction, here's what's good, here's what's bad, and I'd break the good into like four different parts where I'd break into the main categories like story, gameplay, that sort of thing, and then same with the negatives, and then I'd come up with a conclusion that mixes the two together and says what I'd gently

Starting point is 00:31:35 thought about the game and if it was a good game or if it's worth you buying and if it's worth you playing and supporting this publisher or if it's not type thing. So that would be the game side of it. I haven't done that in years though. Music.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Sorry, can you say just roughly how long maybe it takes? Like how long you research, how long you play and from the beginning to the end? I'd say at least three, four hours

Starting point is 00:32:02 and then with the game obviously depends on how long the game is because some games are 16 hours, some games are 30 hours, some games are 60 hours, so it really depends on the game itself. And then the writing, I'd say an hour to two hours maximum. I was honestly expecting much more. That sounds like a great joke. As times going on with my writing, I can, I'm able to write quicker than I used to. I think that's something that if you ask a lot journalists when they started they'll take them like two hours to write 500 words whereas now it

Starting point is 00:32:39 would take us less than an hour to do that it'll take us half an hour to five minutes because we're just so used to writing it's just it becomes yeah like second nature really so long how long in advance do you actually receive the game before the official release oh you generally for like at least two weeks two three weeks in advance but again it depends on the publisher themselves usually some publishers don't give you that much time but if the game is a long one they give you inadequate time to actually play the game

Starting point is 00:33:10 understand the game and get through it really but there's small like indie game maybe a week in advance a week and a half in advance and does that happen that this was back in like 20 14 15 so I think it could have changed since then and does that happen that

Starting point is 00:33:30 maybe the review is negative or not as positive as they hoped. So is it possible that they know it or they see it in advance and then, you know, it doesn't get released. It doesn't break that. You put it at least from where I work to know some publications do this, but with my writing, I don't send it to the people beforehand. Like when it comes out, it comes out. Like you're not seeing it. they have an influence on what they once said.

Starting point is 00:34:01 They could be like, well, I didn't like this, so can you cut this out? Or I didn't like this, so can you cut this out? And then it wouldn't be a true representation of what I was trying to say. And it would be more like a PR movement rather than a review. Because if it was up to the publisher, I'd write an amazing review. I feel like this was the best game I've ever played X, Y, Z. So if you send it to them beforehand, the only time I'd send it to them beforehand is if I divulged information that they don't want me to divulge,

Starting point is 00:34:34 and I'd be like, look, I've said this paragraph, if you want me to take it out or take it out, but it depends on, again, the publisher. So, yeah. And does that also happen that if the review is, you know, a bit negative? They don't want you to review any other games in the future. Some publishers will be like that. Yeah, some game developers and publishers will be like that. but the majority of the time they want writers to be honest.

Starting point is 00:35:00 So I think they would appreciate the honesty because then it's like you're being up front with them and you're not letting your relationship be hindered by saying something negative. Because if that starts to happen, then publishers won't be sending games to anyone. Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of publishers, even the big publishers get negative reviews all the time. But they still send their games out because they know, that these people are trusted. The people that are trusted by the gamers.

Starting point is 00:35:34 They're like, again, kind of like what I said before, where the music journalist is kind of like the medium between the two. The game review is also the medium between the two because he's the mouthpiece between the game and the world. So it's kind of in that same breadth. And I believe a lot of developers are signed see it that way that even if they do get negative press or negative reviews, they're still getting their game talked about. They're still getting some sort of feedback, in-depth feedback from

Starting point is 00:36:07 these people. So the majority of the time, they wouldn't stop. But I know that's something, like, I've heard experiences where that has been the case where they have stopped and cut their relationships with people because they didn't give them a good review, but that's just bad business practice in general. And I guess it's also not sure if that's how it works in journalism, but the word spreads among the journalists. So maybe if something like that happened, you know, if it happened to you, it's likely that other journalists would know and then maybe the publisher would have the best name. You'd send warning signs. You'd be like, look, this happened when I wrote a bad review.

Starting point is 00:36:53 be careful, like, this is that type of and usually either the journalists would be like, okay, cool, I'll keep this in mind, or they'll be like, well, I wouldn't take up a review if it's going to be that bad. If they could actually treat other journalists like that, why would I put myself in a position to do the same, if that makes sense? Yeah. Yep, that sounds interesting. Is there anything else to add to games?

Starting point is 00:37:18 Otherwise, you can tell us about the process behind music? Nothing else that I can think about games. And do you still follow the games or you are out of it completely? I still follow a little bit. Like, I still, like, I have my YouTubers that I watch, like the Black Hokage, Black Panther, like a few gamers, like the Rad brand and stuff like that. They still follow to, like, just keep up with the gaming world and stuff like,

Starting point is 00:37:51 because there are loads of new games that are coming out that are pretty good. So I like to keep up with that. But, yeah, I haven't really gotten into that world recently. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah, for those music. But, yeah, in terms of music, I'd say, to begin with, I do a lot of research on the artist. Like, I try and listen to their whole discography

Starting point is 00:38:21 if I can to actually understand their music and really understand album one to the latest album. So I'd say at least like six to eight hours of research beforehand, like just to really understand their music to a really deep level. So that's what I'd do to begin with. I'd also like try and look at their fan base, try and see what their should. expecting like going on Reddit, Twitter, that sort of thing, and really looking into what the fan base is expecting, what they're like. To see who you're going to upset. Yeah, yeah, exactly as well. If I am going to upset, how am I going to upset? I'd also look into kind of some of their collaboration as well with other people, how that worked out.

Starting point is 00:39:17 I'd also see some of the older reviews like of their old albums what people had said if there was if there was a trend there to be careful or to be mindful of that trend when I'm going into the new album and see if that trend is still there or if it's something that's moved on. So yeah I'd say

Starting point is 00:39:32 yeah seven seven to yeah go six to ten hours at least of research beforehand to really understand the album or the artist sorry and then when it comes to the album view itself or listening to the album. I do one full listen. No notes. No nothing. Just pure

Starting point is 00:39:55 listening, no distractions. One listen, four all the way through no skipping, no nothing. I'd obviously in my head be noting like, okay, this part's good, this part's good, this part's good, this part's good. I listen the second time, this time I'd make notes. Again, full listen, make notes. I'd do it a third time and this time I'd skip the ones I'd skip the ones I'm like, no, like, this is not good. Or like, this shouldn't be the album. It's a filler song. And then kind of do it from there.

Starting point is 00:40:25 And then I think that in itself would take four, five hours as well. And then have my notes, have everything else from beforehand. And then it will take, I think, depending on how long of the feature is, the maximum I'd spend writing an album review would be an hour. So, yeah. Because I'd already know how I'll structure it from. from everything else I've done. So it wouldn't take me that long to put it into words type things.

Starting point is 00:40:51 So yeah. I was trying to imagine the whole process in my head because I feel like it's hard sometimes to appreciate the music, as you said, because you usually put on headphones and do something and listen in the background. But as you said, with 100% attention to it, it must be pure enjoyment and you notice things that normally you wouldn't notice. Yeah, it can. It depends on the album because if you're listening to something you don't like

Starting point is 00:41:22 and you're having to listen to it and actually like really focus on it, it can become like a bit like torture a little bit. So it just depends on the album. Yeah, I agree. It's like if you're giving it your full attention, you do pick up on things that other people wouldn't pick up on. And because I've been listening to music for so long, your ear starts to pick up on things really quickly.

Starting point is 00:41:47 especially like I and if you're also like because I've got the the production side of it and I understand a little bit of music production and I also understand a bit of music theory I can like know when the ebb and flow is going to be when it's going to go high and what what I'm expecting when I'm listening to a song I'm like okay well this is this type of song I'm expecting this to happen and if it beats my expectation or even like completely blows my expectation out of the water I'm like this is really good because I'm expecting something and you're giving me something completely left field of this. So, yeah, you develop a knack or like an ear for different things

Starting point is 00:42:29 where even like this sometimes a lot of musicians have this. A lot of people, I think a lot of people that work in music have this where your ear can focus on one instrument. So if you're listening to a track, you can hear all of it together, but you can actually train your ear to just focus on the drums or just focus on the piano or just focus on the synth. So you are able to do that. Yeah, but that's because I also like,

Starting point is 00:42:59 I grew up playing drums. So I grew up having to know to focus on just one instrument in a track. So, yeah, you kind of grab that as you practice further and as you go into the world of journalism further, or not in the world of journalism, but just music journalism in general, just listening to music, you can train your ears to do that. It's a remarkable thing, but yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:27 And would you also get it a few weeks in advance before 30s? Yeah. So with music you get an album, again, depends on the publisher, either a month or a few weeks in advance. you wouldn't get it like two months of advance you'd get it like at least four weeks two to I'd say two to four weeks that's usually how long you'd get it for sometimes if it's last minute you'd get a week before or even a few days before so like yeah it really depends on the publicist themselves but you usually get a bit of time

Starting point is 00:44:06 beforehand to to really listen to the album you get sent like a private link type thing to to listen to the album. And based on how long you said, how long it takes you, it sounds to me like, do you even feel pressure to finish it before the deadline? Because it sounds you, it's pretty jump for it.

Starting point is 00:44:26 Yeah, because sometimes you do because you actually have to sit down and give it the time. And if you're, let's say music journalism isn't your full-time job, then you need to make the time to do it. And sometimes you don't have the time. So you do feel pressure to be like, okay, I have to sit down and get this done. But at the same time, usually as a media journalist, that's not the only thing you have to work on.

Starting point is 00:44:52 So you'd have to review that, but also you'd have to review something else and you'd have to do it. And you'd have to do it. So it does become a bit chaotic. The schedule does become a bit chaotic. But like you're saying, there wouldn't be that necessarily that pressure of, oh, this needs to be done now. it'd be more like okay I could take my time with this I can enjoy this

Starting point is 00:45:14 and then really understand it and then sometimes let's say you don't have a connection with the PR that's doing that album but your publication

Starting point is 00:45:25 wants an album review you're going to have to listen to that album the night it comes out and have a review ready for the morning or for the next day that one's where

Starting point is 00:45:35 the pressure really is because you're like I have to get this done now like you have to listen to it make up your mind and like review it to the less of capabilities but in that case you'd at least the research side of it would be done earlier because you'd already know you're doing the review so you'd be like okay well I can listen to the artist so when it comes to actually reviewing the album it's just about listening to that one album and getting it out there type of thing so yeah yeah and can you share some maybe highlights or some

Starting point is 00:46:09 you know, big, exciting or interesting projects that you were working on or reviewing? Oh, yeah. One of the best ones I think I've worked on was what I got to interview Ren for short. Not this Christmas, but the Christmas past. She's a Canadian kind of alternative indie artist. she's really like making headways and she's even signed to release music now again this year I think she's ramping up for something um so I got to interview her with Luke magazine and it was for a digital cover feature um and she had just done her proper like European tour and it was like sold

Starting point is 00:46:56 out everywhere and stuff like that and it was just a really great conversation she's a person that's worked with um Travis Barker she's worked with Jake Bug and like a lot of the big industry names so It was really good to just sit down and have a conversation with her. Really down to earth. Really, really, really lovely woman. And her music speaks for itself. It is great. Yeah, just great.

Starting point is 00:47:22 Music in general and just great interview. Also got to sit down with A Lingo as well. That was really cool. That was, again, with Loop Magazine this time last year, actually. And that was for the cover feature for the print magazine. So he was really, it was cool. He was releasing an album and it was really nice to speak to him and about he ended up working with Queen.

Starting point is 00:47:47 The Archive Green. So that was a really cool thing to talk about and actually be, yeah, be able to be involved in really and then get that cross and do a feature on. In terms of more recent stuff, there are a few things in the works at the moment. I can't really go into complete details. But there are like, there's a lot of exciting projects coming out for this year from some big artists.

Starting point is 00:48:17 So definitely be keeping a lookout for stuff like that. We'll be following social media and see what is coming. Yeah, no, definitely. We see it on social media. And yeah, there are definitely a lot of things that are coming out in the next few months. especially that I think a lot of people like, especially if they like indie rock and pop and also hip-hop. There's a lot of features coming out.

Starting point is 00:48:44 There's a lot of projects coming out. So definitely to keep a light on there. But obviously, as you said, I can't really get into the details about that stuff. Yeah, yeah. And what about some dream projects, dream albums, or artist you would want to work with? I'd say one of the big ones would be Post Malone. I'd love to be able to work with Post Malone at one point or even interview him at some point.

Starting point is 00:49:13 That'd be one of my main interviews I'd like to do. I think it'd be an incredible discussion. Is it because of his music or because of personality or him as general? I'd really like his music by the same time. He does seem like a genuinely down-to-earth guy. So it'd be good to speak to him about his music. really go into detail and depth about his creative process and just yeah they're like his musical ambitions and stuff like that um i definitely think also um i'd like to talk to either

Starting point is 00:49:51 j cole or um j id as well they're two of my favorite rappers so they'd be a pretty cool um interview or even project to work on with them too and inhaler as well and hale are a really good band from from ireland so that they'd be a there'd be a cool interview as well so yeah those are like the yeah sounds sounds cool fingers crossed we'll see in the future yeah we'll see you never know and i'm also curious how does it work with you looking for work looking for jobs uh what publishers to work with, where to do interviews, and basically how do you find work? So in terms of that, it's all about research, really. You have to research the publications you want to write for.

Starting point is 00:50:44 You have to research what they're writing about, who they're writing about, what's the trend in their published work. So let's say a publication just as hip-hop features, they probably have a lot of writers doing that. So you have to come at it from a different angle because they'll be like, well, if you give me this idea, I already have a bunch of people that can do it. So I'm not going to commission this. But if you come here from different angles or you try and, let's say try and mix two worlds together,

Starting point is 00:51:14 let's say like Indian hip-hop where they're not doing stuff like that. You can be like, well, this artist is working with this artist and it's a big collaboration type thing. Then it will make sense for them to commission it because they're like, okay, well, they didn't think of that. it's also really really important to keep a good network and good connections with PRs and publicists because they're the ones that will keep you up to date with new music especially from new artists they'll send it to your press releases and stuff like that so definitely network that is a very big thing definitely network it's really important in the world of journalism to network I think in any industry but especially

Starting point is 00:51:55 in journalism to network and know your connections. And also, I guess, just don't be, that one of the main things I'd say is don't be afraid to just pitch, like, just send, you never know what could happen. You never know if an editor could pick it up or not. Just don't be afraid to pitch out there. Also, don't be afraid to be rejected. The amount of emails, the amount of pitches I got rejected is like any journalist will tell you.

Starting point is 00:52:25 amount of pictures you get rejected is ridiculous. So don't be afraid to be rejected. It's part of it. It's part of a learning course. And it will teach you how to pitch better. It'll teach you how to what works, what doesn't. Why certain things don't get picked up. But sometimes there is no reason. Sometimes just get lost in emails, really,

Starting point is 00:52:45 because editors get thousands of emails a day. Like yours is obviously going to get lost, can get lost in that sea. so don't be too disheartened and keep going at it really so yeah yeah and uh can you maybe share also some advice for people who want to uh start as a journalist maybe where to start what to focus on or something that you would maybe do differently on your own journey i'd say find what you're passionate about and read read pieces on what you're passionate about read writers are already doing what you're doing or what you want to get into or what you're passionate about, see how that world really works and understand the language,

Starting point is 00:53:29 understand that world that you're going to get into or understand, it will help you also understand the writer you want to become. I'm not necessarily saying read to copy. I'm saying read to appreciate and understand and be like, okay, well, this is how this is used and this is how this language is used. And don't focus on one writer, focus on a breadth. the writer so you've got a variety and you're not just nitpicking like they say that you event if you start imitating or at least from why i understand like if you start imitating what you want

Starting point is 00:54:03 to become you eventually become that which you imitate um so like let's say i want to be right like i don't know uh which i think charles dickens i'd read a lot of charles dickens i'd understand how he works i'd understand his literature and i understand his nuances doesn't anything I write is not going to be Charles Dickens but I'm going to have that set standard of expectation in my head to write that way so I'll write my own version of how I want to write like him if that makes sense yeah so if you're trying to get into that world

Starting point is 00:54:38 it's important to understand how these people write how they talk about the things that they're passionate about or how they talk about this one subject that you want to get into and just yeah focus on that I don't Also, not just focus on that, but I just read in general. Reading is important, I think, and reading a variety of things. So you can understand how different languages use in different ways. Also, I'd keep up with the things you're passionate about.

Starting point is 00:55:10 Keep up with the news. Keep up with stuff like that. And I'd also start to make connections or like just reach out to people, connect to people. And, yeah, start to really network a little bit, especially if you're trying to get into that world, like I started off that way, I'd just send the emails to people and I started building a network and yeah, it led to where I am now. So. Yeah. And as you mentioned before, some exciting projects I had, what are your plans maybe in a few years?

Starting point is 00:55:42 You know, have you got specific position in mind or something you would want to be? Well, I would like to, yeah, I think in the next few years I'd like to be working for a major publication. Not necessarily a music magazine or anything like that, but more like a newspaper. I'd like to work for a newspaper. I'd like to be a main writer in the newspaper. Hopefully not just covering music, but covering literature, maybe politics and a bunch of other general news. And it's partly why I'm doing the NCTJ as well. So that's kind of like my career trajectory, my head is that, is going down that road.

Starting point is 00:56:24 So, yeah, that's what I have in mind really. And it would be really nice to work for one of the major news outlets in the UK or even abroad. It doesn't really make a difference, I think. But yeah, that's where I want to go, really. I do like the freelancing world. And it is great. And I probably still will continue to do freelancing, even if I'm in that, in that realm.

Starting point is 00:56:48 But I would like to, yeah, be established in a news office and stuff like that. So that sounds long time gone. Sounds great, yeah, and fingers crossed. And we will be finishing. You tell people where they can follow you or you can promote your work and yourself. Yeah, sure. I appreciate it. Well, everything I have is my name.

Starting point is 00:57:15 So it's just Rami Obiseta, which is R-A-M-Y-A-B-O-U-S-E-W-T-A. And that's on everything. So on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and even my website is the same. It's just my name.com. So, yeah, I usually keep all of those things updated all the time. So where I'm mostly kind of active is probably Instagram, because it's the easiest platform to kind of work with. But yeah, that's why you can find my work really. And other than that, just the different publications that I come across, like,

Starting point is 00:57:50 whine out, clash and stuff like that. So, yeah, just keep an eye on that sort of stuff. But thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. So I really do appreciate you on your platform. It was my pleasure as well. I was going to say that then when we read reviews of some music albums, now I'll be checking the name under the review.

Starting point is 00:58:12 I see your name. If you can come across any, let me know. Yeah. This podcast you have here is great and it's a great platform for people to kind of talk about their careers

Starting point is 00:58:24 and talk about things they're passionate about, really. So it's really good that you've built this and you're continuing to go with it. And I really hope it goes far and it becomes the success you want it to.

Starting point is 00:58:37 Thank you. I appreciate your kind of words. And it was great to have someone on who's from World of Journalism. I think I haven't spoken with anyone before. I hope my questions weren't too basic, but I didn't know anything.

Starting point is 00:58:51 And it was interesting. You got a lot to speak about a lot, so that says a lot. So, yeah, no, it's a good question. Definitely, you could be a journalist yourself. Cool. Thank you, Dan, Remi. I will stay in touch, and I wish you

Starting point is 00:59:09 good luck in our career. Thank you so much, so much. Thank you. Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - Reviewing Reality: Examining Games and Music with a Journalist's Pen | #49: Ramy Abou-Setta

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