Produced By - Senior Technical Animator Mastering His Craft in Games and VFX | ​​#32: Mayj Amilano

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Mayj Amilano is a Technical Director for 3D animation, VFX, and game development with an extensive background in tooling, creature/character rigging and CFX. Mayj also possesses comprehensive experience in feature film, pre-/post-production as well as supervision and management. Tune in to discover more about the world of animation as well as VFX, get inspired by Mayj’s journey that led him from the Philippines to London and much more. Elevate your online presence with the help of Trailblazed, your (and our) favourite digital marketing agency. ⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠ If you enjoy the show, please, consider supporting it on Patreon or by buying a virtual coffee (or chocolate). ⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠  ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/producedby⁠  Boost your creative career by joining our new Skillshare course and feel free to let us know how you liked it. ⁠https://skl.sh/3Rh7ZtY⁠ Don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date, get the latest news and much more. ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠  ⁠⁠    Connect with Mayj: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayjamilano Connect with the host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠    Follow the podcast: Links: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Web: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://produced-by-podcast.com/ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/produced_by_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5LHnM6YCaeVzIr0WatOsw⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠https://lnkd.in/e5Y8Wscx⁠ ⁠⁠  Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/produced-by/id1684669642⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please, leave a review on your podcast app, subscribe and share it with your friends. You can also send us a message and share any feedback, advice and tips for guests. About Produced By: Produced By unveils captivating stories of courageous people who set out to pursue careers in highly competitive fields, despite often challenging circumstances. Enter the spotlight with our guests and get inspired, whether your interests are in the creative industries, personal growth or you simply want to have fun. Listen to individuals who represent a wide range of professional backgrounds, geographic locations and career stages. So come along to follow their adventures and learn from life's experiences as we kick off on this epic journey.  Thanks for listening and see you soon!  Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello, Mesh. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to welcome special guests like you.

So, Mesh, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, so my name is May John Amelano. I have two names, actually, May and John. The reason for that probably is that because I was born in May. And my mom, namely May and John, the second name is John. And people call me Mage for short. So I'm a senior technical animator slash creature. creature technical director

mainly focusing on rigging technical direction for animation as well as pipeline so that's me

I think that was a lot of foreign words for someone who doesn't know anything about this yeah I mean it's just the yeah I can explain

those title. I mean, all of them are just the same. I think for my recent job back before I went into game is creature technical director. It's really, my main job really is

creating rigs for characters and creatures and then as well as simulation, like muscles, stuff like that. So the main focus is rigging for creature and and characters. But there are also creature TDs that do effects for creatures. Also, in games, I'm called a senior technical animator. My main job is also rigging, but then again, it's for games, doing rigging for characters, for games. And then I'm responsible for the games. I'm responsible for the

game system, animation system, setting those up in the engine, as well as setting up the animation pipeline for games. Also, creating tools for the animators. So those are my job in the game industry. Kind of similar, but different in some aspect. Yeah. And can you explain the rigging? because actually in the previous podcast episode, there was a 3D animator. And she was explaining the rigging. So I wonder how do you explain it? Or what is rig?

Yeah, so I'll explain it in a way that is not, in a way that people can understand, like, not technically. So imagine a toy, like a puppet. you know, you have like, you know, pieces of like limbs that you can move. And then you have a puppeteer, right? Controlling those, you know, with the strings, right, attached to it. Like in a pinocchio. Yes, exactly.

So the rig are those strings attached to it. Those are the controls, you know, controlling the puppet. And the rigger is the puppeteer. Or the animator is the puppeteer controlling the, you know, the puppet itself. So the animator is the one controlling it. So rigging is setting up those controls, those skeletons, those, you know, so that certain creature character can move. The animator can move it.

So it's basically that's it. Setting up the, you know, the controls and the joints so that the animator can move it, can transform it in space. So basically that's rigging. And also, how would you describe a pipeline? Well, the pipeline is really, like, if you have, I can compare it to like a pipeline, like tubes. Like if you have a water system where the water flows, you have like tubes where, you know, you can direct the flow of the water, you know, like setting up the tubes. So it's similar to work, like for example, and on my side, it's the game pipeline.

So it's setting up all the structure for the project. So the data flow or, I mean, the hierarchy of, like, for example, the animation, the rigging, the modeling, where should it go? So it's mainly like setting up the, what do you call this, the pipeline, the workflow. So in my end, since I also do pipeline, I set up like the tools and I make sure that everything is streamlined. And all the, all the data or characters or textures or textures or textures or being. sent to the proper, you know, the proper department. So I make sure to, you know, create tools and optimize everything. So the flow is smoother.

So I also do maintenance, troubleshooting, and, you know, building tools to enhance the pipeline. Sounds quite like... Basically, that's how I understand it. Yeah, yeah. And you said you are responsible of it, right? Yes, yes. It sounds like quite a responsibility. Sorry?

I mean, it sounds like quite a lot of responsibility on you. Well, it really depends on, you know, because we have a small team at the moment for the certain project that I am in. So there are times when if the projects, if the project goes bigger and, you know, we tend to like hire more people to assist. Okay. Right now I'm the only one doing this stuff because the project is for now just started.

So eventually probably they'll hire more people to assist. So the responsibility for now is on my shoulders at the moment. Okay. Okay. Before we dive into your career, can you tell us more about your background? Maybe where you come from? How was it growing up? Yeah, I'm originally from the Philippines, so I'm a Filipino.

So I actually started way back, like I think probably 18 years ago. I started in the VFX, 3D animation industry. I actually graduated from Athenaeo the Naga University from an animation course. We call that Bachelor of Science and Digital Illustration and Computer Animation. And sorry, where was it? You said Naga? It's in Athenaio, Athenaio, the Naga in the Philippines. Oh, okay, well.

So it's, yeah. So I started as a, actually, I started as a treaty generally. list. My first job really was I do a lot of stuff. I do modeling. I do animation. I do rigging, so as textures,

everything. I also do compositing, so everything. But then eventually I'm inclined, I'm more inclined to animation. So I focus more on doing 3D animation. And eventually after that, I became a rigor, a

technical animator, because I don't I just love, you know, troubleshooting things. You know, I just love, you know, those challenges. So, and then I've worked in the Philippines for a couple of years, doing local films, local TV commercials, and then after a few years, I worked, I had like some freelance jobs abroad. And eventually I was hired in the U.S.

UK and then eventually it moved here. How was the industry in Philippines? Was it like challenging to find work? Yeah, I mean, in terms of talent,

there are lots of Filipino, you know, artists, talented Filipino artists. But then opportunities in terms of work, in terms of projects, big projects, not really. And I think back then it was like because the CG industry in the Philippines is not, is very young. That's why some of the people are, you know, not yet aware of the proper pipeline, workflow and stuff.

but then comparing to the talents outside the country there are a lot of Filipino artists that are really good but in terms of opportunity that's why some of the Filipinos some of the people there are going outside the country because in terms of project opportunities is not that many in there and I think because I mean salary-wise and stuff like that's not really

that high back then. So mainly that's I think that's one of the reasons why I also opted to go out of the country. So yeah. But pipeline wise just the same.

And is the situation similar now or was it like that back then when you decided to move? Now I think there are more outsource projects coming outside of the country, going to the Philippines, because the Filipinos are being recognized already in terms of their talent.

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds good. And so why did you choose or why did you end up in London? Yeah, I actually started after my VFX stint in the Philippines, I decided to pursue a career in gaming back in the Philippines. So I was involved. I was hired remotely in the Philippines by a gaming company in the UK. And I started working remotely.

That was like three years ago. That was three years ago, four years ago, I think. And eventually they asked me if I wanted to move to the UK to be a permanent employee. and then so I said yes I moved to the to the UK started working for them but before that before moving to the UK I was working for them for like a year already and then after that we decided to like move to the UK and was it and was it something come on to so that they tried to get the employees over or was it you because who are talented and they saw the potential,

so that's why they moved you over? I think it's more of like the potential maybe. Because, I mean, there are lots of people in the UK or in Europe as well that wanted to, you know, to take that certain job. So I think it's because of the potential. Because I think I, before I was offered,

you know, a permanent job there, I was in a probationary, you know, period. And I think after my probation, they decided, okay, this guy is worth, you know, acquiring her moving to the UK. So I think that's it. And after that, yeah. Yeah, sorry. And after that, I, when I moved to the... to the games industry and move to the UK.

I have this, because I have this, you know, I have this, you know, passion of, you know, creating, you know, I really wanted to, you know, be involved in creating big projects and especially films. So that's why I, like, decided, like, you know what? I wanted to, you know, go to the VFX industry again and try my luck in applying in big companies.

So, yeah. did and thankfully I was hired at D-Neg Was that your first VFX company after you moved over? Yes, it is. Actually was hired

I was actually applying for you know, a frame store I remember I was applying at Frame Store D-NG and Scanline VFX and I think both of

no not ILM I think two companies sent me a job offer I think and I I think I decided to go with DENeg. Oh, what was the reason? Yeah I don't know I mean I

think it's just that you know I've been applying at DNG for so long even when I was still in the Philippines I mean I can't get through and I was back then I remember there was supplying at D-Neg and I was like submitting CDs because we don't have like online back

that online application you know online reels before so the requirement was you know you know compile I mean send your CV and send your reel in a CD like if you know what a CD over the post yeah by a post oh wow yeah I was like I was a the Philippines and I was like, you know, doing, creating my reel and, you know, creating my CV and then, you know, sending it via post. And like after like two weeks or three weeks, I received this email. I think that, you know, thanks for your effort, but we're not, we're not hiring you at this moment or, you know, we're going to another candidate.

And then after that, I'll try again. I think that's the reason why I... Yeah, and how did the gaming company feel like the one that brought you over? Was it okay that then you left them for another company? I mean, I think I indicated in my resignation that I wanted to, you know, move to, I'm I mean, it's my personal preference back then. I was like aiming for, you know, for a challenge, you know. Yeah, yeah.

And so I think it's fine for them, I hope. No, yeah, it makes sense. And also I wonder, because I've never been so far or to Philippines, can you compare what is it like living in Philippines to London? What is it like? Firstly, the weather is nice. It's always warm. It's always warm in the Philippines, you know.

I mean, it's a tropical country. So you have lots of good food, you know, beach. And then, you know, you don't have to like wear layers of clothing. And then, you know, you don't have to like wear layers of clothing. People are nice, you know. Those are the things that I missed in the Philippines. But, I mean, the UK is good as well. I mean, it's just that I'm used to like the Philippine, a tropical weather.

And I, you know, I like weather's like that. And both are nice. Come back once in a while? I'm planning to. probably next year I don't know yeah it must be very long

but I'm planning to go back yeah it's like a I think a 14 hours trip by plane yeah so it's really

a long trip yeah but it's worth it yeah I heard that the cuisine is nice as well from someone yeah

yeah yeah so can you tell us maybe more details about, you know, what was it like? Let's start with gaming. Maybe what is it like your day-to-day activities to give us an idea? Yeah, so basically, so I start my day with, you know, meetings.

You know, just to like Just to like update People, my colleagues, my leads, everyone about what I've worked For the past days And what I'll be working on in the coming days And not I'll be working on Today And then the goal

And then that's it And then after that I also I usually start my day with like checking emails and checking tasks, if I have pending tasks, you know, catching up with managers and leads and my colleagues as well. And then after that, since we are working on, I'm actually working remotely, so I need to sync up with all the files. I try to, you know, sync with all the files that I need to, like, have for that day. And then start working. So basically, I am responsible for, you know, optimizing some rigs, creating rigs for characters. And then tooling, which I do at the moment most of the time,

because I do tools for the animators. like if they need something for the rig or if they need something to enhance their animation, I develop tools for them. And then after that, more meetings. If I have meetings for the day, and then basically that's it. I mean, that's how my day goes.

Yeah, so can you expand? How do you develop tools? Is it in, I don't know, coding or how do you do that? Coding. It is coding. So I'm currently, I'm doing tools in the Maya environment. So I'm developing like tools for the animation pipeline. Like say for example, they have animation that they need to like save and export so that it can be used in the engine that we're

using, I try to like develop, optimize or automate the manual process of exporting, you know, the characters, the rigs, and the animation. So that the end product, I mean, the end, um, you know, the end product should be, uh, a game ready, um, character or rig that is usable for in the engine by engineers. So it's basically like I bridge the gap between the art and the engineers doing their thing in the engine. So the animators do their animation, do their stuff, do the art thing. And then I optimize it, get those stuff, those data, those characters, and animation. and then I export it and give it to the engineers.

And I make sure that the bridge is smoothly without any, you know, without any, what they call this, issues or hindrances in there. Yeah, yeah. And just to get the idea. I'm half art and half, I'm half art and half technical. What side do ingens more? I also do some animation at some point. What side do you enjoy more?

What do I enjoy more? I actually enjoy both. I don't know, but I mean, I love doing animation as well, because I know how to animate as well. I know how to model, you know, characters and stuff. I also love troubleshooting things, you know. So it's half, really. I mean, I love both. So you are the perfect person for such a position.

I don't know, probably And just to get an idea, can you say roughly How long it takes to develop some tools? I understand it depends how complex it is But would it be hours, days? Average is like for a simple tool I can actually do it in Probably half a day or probably

like if it's like a tool that you know creates a camera rig or I mean not the camera rig probably like a tool that renames things batch rename things probably just half a day maybe a couple of hours maybe but if it's like a tool that like do like batch export animations batch export rigs batch export rigs it'll probably take me like a week or probably more than that it depends on whether what functionalities

are supposed to be in that certain tool like if the animators or the people that will use it needs a specific feature in the tool it probably will take more time but average

like simple tools can be done as quick as possible. And when you develop some... It also depends in what... Depends in what, you know, I mean, language you're using. So I'm using Python at the moment.

And it really depends on how you use it. If you are like used to using it, familiar with it, like, even using it. It's much more easier to like, develop tools quicker. So can you choose what? Like for now.

Language you choose or does it depend on the company or? It depends. It depends because like I can do tools in my and in Maya I can actually use smell if I want to. But it's it's much more efficient to use Python for me in the my environment. I can actually also use the Maya API, which is a different story. And if I wanted to develop tools in the engine as well, I can use C++. And I don't know how to use it extensively. I know the basic C++, but not really that.

I'm not really a programmer. So, yeah, it depends on what you're using, really. And it depends on the scope of what you will be developing. Yeah. And once you develop some kind of tool, is that being used only on a project or is it going to be used like, let's say, in a future on other projects? When I develop tools, I tend to like see, I tend to like create that. In general, to be used not only for a specific project, but for a specific project, but for, for the whole company. The mindset is that you develop a tool

that will be used not only for a certain project, but it will be used across all projects. And that's probably, that's the reason why some of the tools that I developed takes a lot of time to be created or to be developed because my mindset is this is not only going to be used in this certain project. It will be used across, you know, all projects, or it will be used by the company itself in general. And I wonder if, like, does every person who works with rigging or, I don't know, animation or even creature department, do all of them need to know coding?

or? Not really. Not really. No. Because to me, coding sounds very scary. Like something hard. So you've got to admire you. The first time, I actually was not really, I don't know how to code really.

I'm an animator. I started as an animator. And the reason why I learned coding is that I hate doing things manually. I want to like, you know, I want to automate things. You know, like when I'm doing rigging back then, setting up the joints, you know, renaming the joints, creating the I case and stuff like that. And skinning, although skinning is not, you know, you can't actually automate it. That's why I was, you know, inclined to learn, you know, coding.

so I started learning coding because of that and eventually I loved it I was gonna ask you find it if it was challenging in the beginning or easy you enjoyed it I mean I enjoy you know having challenges

I love like challenges because I think those challenges are the fuel for me. It drives me to work, you know, to do stuff. Without those challenges, I don't think I, you know, I'll continue to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if there's this thing about me that when I, there's no challenge in anything or not even work, I tend to get bored.

you know so it i mean it's there's supposed to be a challenge always for me so that i that's the fuel for me that that that drives me yeah i i think that it's the right mindset i agree and that's how you grow how you learn and they get better right yeah yeah yeah so so i tend to like grab i'm sorry yeah you can continue yeah so i yeah so i yeah so i yeah i yeah i yeah i yeah i yeah i yeah I try to like, even if, you know, from time to time, I like to, like, read books and learn more, you know. I always take the time to, like, if I have free time, like, for an hour maybe, I try to, like, watch tutorials or learn other stuff, you know. Are we still talking about, like, getting better at VFX and this stuff or even? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter

called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. So what can you give us example? What was maybe the challenging, let's say, tool or Rake or something challenging asset or whatever that you, that, you know, was hard for it? Probably learning a new, a new software maybe. and you know it's like

you know because I started learning Houdini back when I was still in the VFX industry also Unreal I've used Unreal before but

you know the new version and you know it's been like how many years six years maybe you started using Unreal and it's so different back then compared to this what it is right now Oh, okay. So it's really, you know, it's, it's really, for me, it's a struggle to, like, you know, learn new software.

You know, like, like Houdini as well. It's, it's a different thing. It's, there are terms in Houdini that is, like, different in Maya. So you have to, like, really need to read, you know, test it out, you know, watch a lot. lot of, you know, tutorials and, you know, do some, do some testing and stuff like that. It's really hard, you know, and also learning a new, like, a new programming language. Yeah. I... It's hard.

Yeah, but it's impressive that, you know, you're not like how I don't need to learn it anymore, but you still have mindset of a learner and, you know, exciting to learn new things. So as you mentioned Zbrush and No no sorry Houdini and Maya What are some other software that is being used

either in games or VFX So we have Unreal We also have like 3D software similar to Maya Like Blender Is it a free one? Yeah it's as an open

for our software. But then if you look at Blender right now, it's, you know, it's mind-blowing. I mean, it's almost, you know, you know, Maya's here and Blender is almost like going up. Yeah. In terms of, you know, dynamic simulation, rigging and stuff like that, they're, you know, up-to-date and much more efficient, I think.

looking at the demos they've been, you know, showing. Also wanted to learn Blender. So, yeah. And does industry use Blender as well, or is it just like people want to learn? No, really. I think Blender is, I think right now it's being used in the industry, but Maya is still the standard. As far as I know, in terms of 3D animation,

gaming, modeling, and stuff like that. And the standard for gaming, I think, in terms of engine, is Unreal and Unity at the moment. Yeah, yeah. And the one did you. Other software as well did. I was just going to say the one you are using, if it's in the gaming, Unreal.

In gaming, I'm using Unreal at the moment, learning Unreal at the moment. So, yeah. I've learned a lot lately. And what Houdini? What's Houdini being used for? Houdini is for a simulation, CFX. If you have like clothes, hair, explosion and stuff like that.

Odin is being used, yeah, mainly. But Houdini also is a rigging system, as far as I know. you can actually do modeling in Adini as well, as far as I know. But the main strength of Adini is for CFX. Yeah. I think, Matthew moved your microphone slightly. Yeah. Is it better now?

Yes. Perfect. So, as you worked in both VFX and games, can you give us some differences between, you know, what is it like to work in these two industries? I think the pipeline is quite similar. I mean, the workflow is quite similar. The main difference for me is that in VFX, you have random. I mean, you get to like render light stuff and then render it. You need to wait for the render to finish, right? But in gaming, you have the engine for that. So minus the rendering in Maya.

So I think that's the main difference. So how does it work in games? You don't render? You can see it like immediately or how does it work? you don't really render in games. The engine handles it. So if you have like a character, an animation, you import it at the engine and it like code,

the basic structure of the system and how, you know, if you feel like have three movements, like you have run, you have idle, you have like walk, jump, you piece it all together. in the engine and you have a character that is moving and you have that it can be used in the game already in terms of compared to compared to the VFX in the VFX industry you need to like after you you created the animation the model stuff like that you need to render it and composite it right so that's that's the main difference and it sometimes takes a few hours, right? Your animation, it depends if it's an animation or a simulation or what have you. Because if it's a simulation, like muscle, maybe, muscle simulation.

It's a long way. Yeah, I can imagine. And you need to, like, render lots of layers for it, right? So it's not enough that you, like, output an animation that is moving, a character that's moving with texture and stuff, you need to like render layers of, you know, stuff for the compositor to like inject all of those layers in one output. Yeah. So what are some assets or shots or can you give us some specific about what you worked on?

Maybe what's like on your portfolio so that you can share it publicly? What have I been in the VFX industry? You can't be able to say both. Well, in the gaming, I haven't caught anything yet. That is worth showing, I think, for now. And I'm not allowed to share it. I think for the VFX, the recent project that I've been involved in, was the movie

The Flash. I think it's okay to share that because it's already, you know, it's already out, I think. So I was, I did some muscle simulation for Barry, the main character

for that movie. So it's like I'm doing the rigs. I mean, I've done some rigs for the character but the main thing that I've been doing in the flash was setting up the muscle system,

the muscle, you know, for the character. And as well as, the last part that I did for that movie was doing shot sculpt. A lot of shot sculpt to correct some, you know, poses in some scenes. So, yeah. So is that, I was going to ask you, what is shot sculpting?

So is it like correcting? Well, shots, yeah, it's basically just correcting some, like if you have like a finished, you know, not really finished, but like a shot that has an animation in it. And the framing is already good and, you know, it's already timed. But then there are, you know, like some penetration stuff happening that they're being, you know, that is seen in that certain angle. or shot, you need to correct that. And you need to shot sculpt that

before rendering it out. So it's just basically sculpting, like, tweaking the vertices of like the 3D model. And then, you know, correcting it to avoid

those issues, to get rid of the issues. Yeah, yeah. And what's the difference between the spence of time you spent working on a project when it comes to VFX and games? Is there, for example?

Well, I think, yeah, well, I think it's much more in terms of work, I feel like it's more intricate, maybe. I mean, in terms of details, you need to be more

detailed when you're working in the VFX. like film because you want to avoid spotting things because it will be shown in a big screen, right? You know, and once you spot things like penetration, you know, and that makes the film or that certain shot unrealistic, that's a failure. So you need to be more like, you need to like put all your heads together and, you know, preview that certain. shot every time and spot, you know, things that, you know, oh, there's some penetration there. There's like some issues going on in the hair and whatever. Compared to Kim's, you know, as long as you have, you know, have the character moving when you press

like forward, you press hit and it punches and, you know, you feel, you feel that it's, you you're controlling the character. It doesn't really matter. But games now are also much more detailed in terms of how it looks. But I've seen a lot of games where you play some character and you see some things going through his chest or his head or whatever. So as long as, I think for me, as long as the game is, you know, you can control it, functional and you have the gameplay

ironed out everything will be okay, everything will be fine but in films no if it's not, you know, if you're aiming for a realistic film and you're putting a digital double in there and it looks like it's not, it's unrealistic

it's a failure. I was going to say, you know, that the audience and the critics will notice everything so if there is something wrong, you will You will hear it for the rest of... Yeah, yeah. For the rest, as long as the movie is out there, you'll hear it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are some films with... Your favorite films with VFX that you enjoyed? The Matrix. The latest one. I mean, not the latest one. I mean, the latest one is okay as well. You know, when I saw the first Matrix, I was really, you know, blown away.

I mean, not only with the VFX, but storyline itself. You know? When it came out? 1999, I think. I don't know. I forgot. I think 1999. I mean, I even named my son after Neo.

Really? Really? Is your son? My, my, yeah. Really? My son is named. Neo. Oh wow.

That's cool. I didn't know. Yeah, yeah. My first born son is named Neo. Also, I have a dog back in the Philippines, and we named it Marfus. Oh, that's cool. Is your second child also called? No, no.

My second child is named Ken. Oh, from Barbie. My... I think it's supposed to be Kenji. Kenji? I think... Kenji, I think, is... I think the meaning of...

I don't know. I'm not sure if it's correct. The meaning of Kenji's secondborn or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So his name is Ken. But the new sounds great. I don't think... Yeah. And also, I don't...

I don't think my wife... No, I was just going to say... I don't think my wife will allow me to name another character from the Matrix. I was just going to say that I don't know anyone called Neo. So if there is one called Neo, everyone will remember and it will be very... Remember the name that people remember. Yeah, so it's cool. And because I asked that I think when I saw Matrix, it was a few years after it came out.

So I can imagine if you watched it like... I don't know, 99 or 2000 shortly after it came out, it must have been mind-blowing with the effects and everything. Yeah, yeah. It's really cool. I mean, like, like, I love the scene

there where, you know, Neo-Dutch the bullet. Yeah. That was the first in VFX back then. You know, no one, no one they're the first to do that. Like that effect where, you know, slow-mo and the camera is like,

you know, like with plenty of cameras around him. Yes, yes, yes. I've seen the behind, I mean, the behind this, you know, behind the scenes of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, it's really amazing, you know, and the fight scenes as well. I agree. And what about some more recent films?

Is there something? Well, um, what films did I watch recently? apart from the Flash. The Flash is great as well. I mean, I think... How did you... Sorry, how did you like... How did you like the work you did in the film?

It was like, oh yeah, this is my work. Well done. Yeah, I was... I mean, it's very exciting to like to see my work in the big screen, you know? And like seeing my name. Yeah. You're like, I saw your name as well. but it

mine my name yeah I think your name is there I think in flash

is it no no because the fun fact I worked on it but it was such a short time and I was still learning

so I wasn't expecting that so I might check as well I think your name is there your name is there I've seen it oh my gosh if it's

yeah that will be yeah I've seen your name oh I will have to check Because I have a copy. I've watched it in the cinema. I also watch it at home. And I've waited for the credits.

And I think I'm like 90% sure I've seen your name. Okay. I will have a look. And if that's correct, that will be awesome because I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So the Flash.

Yeah. What else? What movie? because I'm not really going out to watch a lot of movies nowadays I tend to stay at home and take care of the kids and when it comes to games is there maybe favorite game or the game that you like for what it looks like yeah

one of my the games that I'm playing right now is Red Dead Redemption 2 I haven't really finished it Also, I like sports games. I tend to collect NBA

2K games back then. I have like NBA 2K 15, 16, 17, 18, 18, 19. I only stopped you know, playing the game like two years ago. Oh, why NBA? I don't know. I just

I love basketball. Do you also play? outside of I played back when I Yes before when I still

have my eyes you know without the eyeglasses but when I started using you know when my when my eyes started you know

getting this you know issues I'm actually far sighted and I have astigmatism so that's the moment

when I you know stop playing basketball because I can see the If the ball is far away on the other side of the court, I can't see it. I can see the people are blurry. It's difficult to play like that, you know.

So who's your favorite player or team? Oh, my ultimate favorite player in basketball is Michael Jordan, of course, and Bulls. The Bulls' Michael Jordan era. Yeah. I guess you must have enjoyed last day. than the documentary on Netflix. I did. Yeah. I watched that on Netflix. Yeah. I agree. I really liked it, too.

That's cool. I did know that you were into basketball. Yeah. I mean, Filipinos are more into, like, they love one, they love boxing. Number two, they love basketball. Number three, they love... karaoke's. I didn't expect that one. So do you also like boxing? No, not really. I mean, I've watched a couple of, you know, Manipakiao, you know, shows, but not really into boxing.

I'm not going to lie, I don't know, probably any boxer from there. From the Philippines? Yeah, I know. I don't want to say it if it's wrong, but it's, it's, it's, it's. maybe a different country, so I apologize if I'm wrong. But yeah, I read it was a while ago, there was

a former successful boxer who was running for a president. I don't know if it was Philippines or maybe some other. It was money, Paquiao, yeah, it was money Paquiao. Was it in Philippines? He was, yes, he was actually, he was actually

when he started boxing and he got famous in boxing and then eventually he ran for as a congressman and he won and then eventually he ran for as a senator

and he won again and then the past elections he ran for president but he didn't win oh wow but it's still impressive after such a career in sport was he

was he yeah I don't know in the eyes of the people popular because his history in sports or was he actually a good politician or what he is he is very popular he I mean not only in boxing but mainly in boxing because he he got famous in boxing but after his stint I mean after boxing he he went into like he became like a superstar in the Philippines he was you know he was even singing you know, he has an album.

Oh, wow. I'm not kidding, yeah. Yeah. Like, what do you call it? He was singing. Renaissance man? Someone who's like proficient in many different things. Yeah, I think so.

I mean, he sings, he acts, you know, he has this, he plays basketball as well. I think he found that they created this league, basketball league. basketball league in the Philippines it's like a similar to the NBA oh wow I will I will need to have a look at him I didn't know

that's cool yeah yeah yeah I mean he he is a like a jack of all trades man he sings he acts and he is a politician do you want to share your opinion if you see him also positively as a politician

I'm not sure I mean I I think he's good in boxing. Other than that, I'm not really sure. I'm not really a fan of what he's doing other than boxing. But he's a good guy. Sounds cool. Mesh, important question.

From your experience, can you share some advice from your career or tips or something you'll tell to younger Mave to focus? on? Yeah. Yeah. So I think my advice is never be afraid

to fail. You know? Because if you're you know, you're afraid to fail, you'll never succeed. I mean,

that's, I mean, in my life, that's my, I think, what you call it, a motto or my mindset.

Because I never stop, you know, learning. I never stopped trying. Even if I failed. I've told you earlier that I've been applying at Teneck for several years,

you know? I really wanted to make films and be part of it big, you know. And on those failures before was like was a fuel. It drove me

to pursue it more. So really my advice is never stop trying and never be afraid to fail because those failures and those challenges are the fuel for you to be successful in life, not only in work, but in life. Yeah, yeah. It's always nice to hear something like this because, you know, when you apply for a position, most of us end up in such situations. So it's good to hear.

that it doesn't happen only to you, but it's something that most other people need to go through. I mean, it's scary, you know. I mean, for me, coming from a different country, coming from Asia, coming from the Philippines, and then, you know, pursuing something, you know, globally, you know, and then talking to, you know, I called them my idols before in the VFX, you know.

Because I've been, you know, watching films and it was like, when will be the time that I'll be included in this, you know. This is my dream. I really wanted to be part of them. And then that's really scary, you know. During my time being interviewed in my first job in the UK in the games industry, it was really scary because they were asking about my experiences and stuff. But you just need to be, you know, confident. and believe in yourself that you can do it. And don't be afraid to fail.

Because there are people that, you know, once they fail, they stop. It's not a good habit. If you fail, that means you need to, you know, grow more. There's still, you know, space, a slot there for you to, like, develop yourself. So that the next time you apply, the next time you take the challenge, you already are prepared. And you have that, you know, arsenal. You have that, you learn from your past mistakes. And you never know if you fail and someone who gives up.

You never know if just the second one, maybe the one that gets you in or the one would be successful. Yeah. Always take the risk. Life is short. You know, make the most out of it. So also what will be your dream project? If you can either say specific one or maybe in VFX would it be for some favorite director or type of film or anything. Yeah, well, my dream brought back when I was still in, you know, starting in the 3D animation and VFX.

my dream really was to create a full length 3D animation movie or to be part of a of a big film the movie that inspired me to to have that dream is

you know fighting Nemo oh yeah of course I loved it when I was a kid Yeah Or still Because Also my dream before was to be You know

To be You know To be hired at Pixar That was my ultimate dream before And I started You know Learning animation And

It was too actually Being at Pixar And being an animator at Pixar And doing a film A 3D animation film or being at D-Neg and doing big VFX movies and stuff like that. So now you tick the one, you can go for the second one. The ticked up one and then I don't know.

There's still time, I think. So I don't know. I mean, I can still pursue it if I want. I agree. I loved Nemo when I was young and I still think it's amazing film after so many years. I actually cried when I was still little watching that movie. Yeah, I'm not surprised. It was really nice.

And I've got one, I call it a deeper question, which is if you had, it only maybe similar to the previous one, but if you had attention of all the people in the world and you could share one important message or some kind of idea, what would you tell them? Well, it's a hard question, but probably I will, if all the people have my attention and they will give me like a chance to speak, I would probably say, take time to, you know, go back and say, thank you, or probably I love you to your parents. or your family because I think I haven't

got the luxury to do that and it's I mean I don't regret it but I got so busy with all the stuff and all the things that I forgot to I have a family you know I have

I need to like connect because when everything fails, when everything, you know, crumbles down and you don't have your career, you don't have your wealth, fortune, it's always your family, your parents that will, you know, go back and take care of you and will help you. So, you know, always go back and say thank you. Yeah. So I'll probably tell the people to always remember that. Not only your family, not your parents, but, you know, the people that help you grow and help you to get where you are right now. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, I cannot agree. It's a great message. So lastly, Mesh, where can people follow you? Or do you want to do you want people to follow you or to see your work? People can follow me on LinkedIn. Maybe. I don't have any other account. I have a Facebook account, but I don't use it for work.

They can follow me on LinkedIn. I don't post much, but they can always, people can always message me and ask questions. Have you got your... I forgot. Yeah, I was going to say that. I forgot to tell you that before I... became a professional, you know, VFX in artists and technical animator. I was teaching, you know, kids.

I was, I was a teacher. I was teaching 3D animation. Yeah. At school. So, yeah. And what was the question again? I forgot. No, it was just where they can follow.

I was just going to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um. I will show you. share the account? Yeah, I mean, if people want to reach out. You can follow me in LinkedIn. So even after my my my my teaching stint, even when I'm not teaching anymore, some some of my students are still, you know, messaging me asking questions. And I encourage that. Because also, when you ask questions, you get to grow and you get to learn a lot. Yeah. And and that's one,

I think that's one tip for me. Never. be afraid to ask questions. If you wanted to learn, if you wanted to if you wanted to grow, always ask questions. I agree. And how old were your students, just to get an idea? Some of my students are already working

abroad. I think one of my students is working as a I'm proud of him. I'm working as a lead technical animator at Sony. Oh, wow.

It's awesome. Great. He's been making films before, even before me. Yeah. So he's, yeah, it's one of my students. And is that something? And some of my students are working also on other, you know, industry. Yeah.

And is that something you were passionate about and that's why we did it or like you had to and you had experience or you went for it? Teaching, you say? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I, even today, I wanted to, like, share my skills always. I mean, I developed, like, on my personal time, I developed tools for rigging, for animation, and I'm planning to, like, share it, you know, share it for free. so so i think it's also one of my passion to like teach or share knowledge um so yeah so probably that's why i i you know i i was involved in you know i became a teacher before

yeah it can be always plan b once you get tired of working in bfx or well to tell you frankly, if ever I'm, you know, tired already or I wanted to like retire already, I wanted to, like, just go back. Probably if I have money, I'll buy a resort somewhere in the Philippines, probably. Just stay there with their family or stay there with my wife. Yeah. Or my kids are abroad or whatever. I don't plan to work after I retire, I think. Yeah, yeah.

Or probably just teach. teach yeah share knowledge it sounds like you would be a nice teacher I can imagine that students would enjoy you know

studying maybe yeah you can ask my students if they like me for honest feedback cool mage I think we can finish it for today then yeah

thank you so much thank you so much as well it was a pleasure to catch up It was a pleasure for me to be part of your podcast. Thank you. Really an honor. You shared some great wisdom. It was also nice to get to know you more because I didn't know these things before.

So it was great to chat more. Cool. So thank you, Meish. Thank you. Thank you for listening. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a 5-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.