Produced By - Shaping Stories, Building Brands: The Power of Creative Video with a Producer | #81: John Mouratis

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

John Mouratis is an entrepreneur, videographer, and founder of Storyflow, a video production agency that prides itself on bridging the gap between creativity and practicality. With a unique approach to video content, John helps brands and agencies find what truly works, rather than just what looks good. His process is centered on thinking big, building lean teams of senior creative talent, and maintaining clear communication. Having worked with top brands like Google, Nike, Vogue, and Ralph Lauren, as well as agencies like Flight Story, TBWA, and McCann, John has established himself as a leading voice in the video production industry. In this episode, John shares his journey from Greece to London to pursue his passion for video making. He offers a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to run a successful production company, along with practical tips on using social media to stand out, grow a following, and attract clients. Listen in to get inspired by John’s story and discover how you can elevate your own content game. Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmouratis/ https://www.instagram.com/johnmouratis/?hl=en Story Flow: storyflowe.com Connect with Tommen: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/  X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky  Podcast: Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by  Support: https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast  Produced (email newsletter): ⁠https://produced.beehiiv.com/ More: Trailblazed (marketing agency): https://trailblazed.digital/  EpiXtory (podcasting agency): https://www.epixtory.digital/   Produced (LinkedIn newsletter): ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠  Produced By with Tommen is your weekly dose of inspiration where ambition meets creativity. Join us as we dive into the journeys of content creators, entrepreneurs, and other remarkable individuals who break barriers and redefine success. Each episode shares unique stories, challenges, and triumphs. From heartfelt struggles to incredible successes, these conversations will motivate you to push beyond your limits and chase your own dreams. Whether you're on a creative path or just love great stories, tune in and become part of a community that constantly strives to push the boundaries. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Apple and Nike, obviously, are two brands out there that everyone would like to work with, mostly because their creative is very huge. I have worked with Nike already in my past, and it was a great experience. But it really depends on the creative. Like, if the creative idea is ambitious, it has a meaning, it has a message, then I don't care what brand name sits behind it. What I really care about is what people sit behind it. Like, I have certain people in the industry who I would love to work with.

I don't know them. I haven't met them. Okay. I haven't met them. But because of the way they present themselves online, similar to what I told you that clients might find on me and they decide to work with Storyflow, because of the opinion they express online

and the position they attempt to take in the industry as an individual, I admire them and I'm like, I would love to work with you. So I think another tip that I was given recently when at the beginning I was chasing big brands all the time. And recently I was told like, John, whatever you're doing in life, The only thing you need to do, find the right people. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button.

Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you. Hello, John. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, mate. It's very, very, very, very exciting to be here. So, John, to start with, for those who don't know you, can you please introduce yourself? Yes, so hello everyone.

My name is John Moratis. I am originally from Greece, where I grew up for the first 23 years of my life before I moved to London. And now for the past four years, I am in London. I work in London in commercial video production. I run a video team as well. And we solely create videos for brands around the world. I have never been to Greece, but of course it's on my list. I would love to visit one day.

So can you tell us more about what does it like growing up in? in the Greece and about your first 23 years there? Yes, so growing up in Greece is amazing. The sun, the food, the kind people, the slow life, the amount of playtime you have, the safety you would feel back then. It was awesome, like I still remember being 11, 12 years old and I would come back home like during summer, obviously, like midnight without anyone. my parents would never say anything, not because they're like, oh, our kid is wild, because there is no reason to worry about something happening to you.

And at the same time, that was until 18, it was great. It was not very diverse opposed to London. It used to be a non-diverse at all country. So the only people you get to me throughout your childhood is other Greek people, which is great, but also non-great at the same time. And what else? And then the part after adulthood, the early 20s, can feel a bit weird at times. Usually those are the years that in Greece are being advertised as your best years of your life,

the student years or the uni years where you have to go out, experience life, party, do all of those things. Which at the end of the day, it results to having a very slow start of your adult life in terms of your career. So I think. I really enjoyed that, but I got sick of it at some point, and that's why I decided to move to a very busy career-driven city as London. And it may be a question that many people ask you, but do you come from Athens or different places in Greece? I'm not from Athens. I'm from a city called Thessaloniki, which is the second biggest city after Athens. It's in the north. Oh, okay. For any UK people, the easy way to describe it. If Athens is London, Thessaloniki is like Manch,

Manchester, basically. Is there a competition between... Of course there is. Of course there is. Mostly because of football. But yes, there is a lot of competition. And before when you talked about what was it like before in the Greece, it sounded like that it changed? Or was it just my impression or is it different now?

I think as we feel throughout at least all the Westworld, our generation changing things much more rapidly than the previous generation, as, you know, our parents did from their grandparents, etc. Like, I think because of technological advancements, like as they're in social media nowadays, things cuts up very quickly, which it means like people get exposed to different cultures and everything. Even if you don't have someone living next door to you, because of social media, because of the interaction, because of the reference and the inspirations and the role models, you get inspired

by other cultures either way. So that instills some openness to the good. culture in general, which otherwise, they're very lovely people. They're very good host in terms of having people coming for tourists. But in terms of people living with them, like it's a very religious country as well, so it can get a bit tricky at times. But I think our generation is much more open. So that invites a lot of people from Caesia, the other countries of Europe, to live in Greece.

So right now, situation is much more diverse than it used to be, obviously. And also I feel like the part that you emphasized was the safety. Has it changed this data? It's not as safe as before. I'm not sure, to be honest with you, if it's not as safe as before. At least I felt safe. Obviously, I'm sure that people living in different parts of the country or within different family environments,

they might felt less safe than I did. But one thing I can say for sure, the reason I noticed that so strongly is because I moved to London, which is not the safest place in the world. Like if I would have my kids here, I would not act the same way. So I think the difference between the two places kind of made me realize how was the environment back there. So since you now focus on video production and content creation, what is it that you actually studied? Very good question.

As many creative people, I'm not coming from a creative background. Creative was the getaway to exit a path that I entered, but I'd really want to be, generally want to be part of. Basically, I did my master's at computer engineering. That's... Oh, so completely different. It's because I was a good student at least,

and that's what my father did, that's what my brother did. So when I had to make a decision of what I'm going to do for my studies in uni, I had no idea. The only thing I was thinking of is like party time. So I underdage a solution and then after three, four years I decided it's not for me. So I decided to find something creative to play with and make my mind forget of me not passing any exams. So I decided to start creating vlogs for YouTube. That was around the period that Casey Nystad was becoming very famous with his daily vlogging.

Are those vlogs still online? on YouTube? Very well hidden, man. Very well hidden. That's a shame. If my clients search for my name or anybody's our clients on Google, that's not the kind of work I want to come up. Was it like vlogs about daily lives? Yeah, it was like daily vlogs. It wasn't like anything super exciting. It was more about just playing with friends, having some memories. Now actually watching back at them is super lovely. I regret I didn't do more because it's just, you know, things I would never remember, I don't have great memory, things I would never remember is stored there for life.

And I went to Chris like two months ago and I was watching with friends, some of those videos. It was so good. But anyway, like it allowed me to start playing with the camera and realize my love for that. But because the industry in Greece is not very well developed, I decide to move to London to pursue that as a career. But as you said, that industry isn't well developed. I believe there is this director, I will probably mispronounce his name, Jorgos Lantimus. That's true.

And he's a really big name, so I would assume that he might be inspiration. Yes, I mean, an example doesn't come to my mind right now, but, you know, you can think of athletes in the same way. like a country might have the best athlete in the world in one sport. That doesn't mean that the whole country is good at this sport. I mean, obviously people act as role models and that helps the whole industry develop. But the thing with Greece is like the industry is very small, the internal industry. It's more like a business mindset. At the end of the day, Yeros Lanthimos is a film director.

And I'm primarily focused on the commercial world. And if brands, businesses, don't decide that it's a good investment to invest in video, then there is no money even if you have very talented people, which I believe Chris has very talented people in that spectrum. So the few jobs that exist, unfortunately, in Greece there is a lot of nepotism. So unless you have a very good connection or unless you are a relative of someone who is already in the industry, it's very, very difficult to get a foot in.

Some people have managed to do it in an amazing way. But I think if they would put the same effort in an environment that helps them evolve instead of fights against them all the time, I think they would do even bigger things. Yeah, I'm afraid that the industry like a film industry in general is very competitive. And unless you have connections or relatives, as you mentioned, it's quite tough to get it. Yeah, absolutely. What was then the reason to pick London in London specifically? So, very good question. ahead. First of all, London is the biggest industry within the commercial video production world within Europe.

I wasn't planning to live Europe because I've never lived away from home. I want to live somewhere close to home, etc. Second, I love the UK. I wasn't very good at speaking English, but apart from Greek, English was the only language ahead. And obviously, if you want, if you got many countries speak English throughout Europe and, in the world, obviously. But speaking the local language is always a big benefit, because otherwise you have to go through that process as well. And learning languages is not my forte, I would have to say. And obviously, it was the fact that I have visited London before.

I knew the city. I loved the city. Many friends of mine studied London or some small cities around. They then think, as at the same time, it happened that my brother would move here. So it was a good opportunity for me. to move abroad without having no one there to support me. Only because when I moved to London or when I would move wherever I would move, I didn't have a job secured.

It was just a leap of faith to go and find better luck in some other place. Yeah. So what did you feel like when you moved here? Because obviously it was very excited in your face of the life. But at the same time, I assume that must have been stressful or what was it like? it was very stressful I moved here August 2020 so I moved between lockdowns

so the first August 2020 to March 21 that's about 7, 8 months I believe I didn't have any job so I was going through my savings which Oh it's a perfect time Yeah but at the same time I have to mention

like it wasn't this season I was like Okay that's the perfect time It's more about from January 21 for whoever, no, Brexit started to be in, like, to exist and be in operation. So it would mean that after. Yeah, for. Yeah, it would mean I would need a visa. For people outside of UK, we know how painful is. So it means I would need a visa.

So I had to move before January 21. That's why I made a decision. But yeah, it was, it was okay. It was what it was. Right now, I don't regret it in any way. At the time. It was a bit painful, but that's fine. It's part of the process, I believe.

So what else your plan once you get in? Because I assume that you wanted to pursue your passion, such as content creation or video production, but it's not that easy if you move to the new city to find the work in the industry. Yes, you're correct. In no way I want to sound like I had my city together. I didn't.

I had no plan. Like, I always describe to people, like, I don't want to describe myself as someone who fought really hard at the start of his early 20s, etc. Like, I had a lovely family who support me and I was very privileged, so I spent some time, like, experience in life. So it's not that I had a lot of experience with going through jobs and finding jobs and stuff like that. It was my first time here. What I realized, though, it was like, how can I offer value to people? So I start by taking some photos for behind the scenes and more stuff like this because it's always like the easiest way to get in in the industry, at least the way I knew it back then and based on the skills that I had. So yes, I was just going on sets for no money, making nothing, just taking some behind the scenes pictures, sending those to people later, thanking them for having me.

And then throughout that built some connections, that once the industry opened up, they helped me to get some more jobs in. And by the way, when I say opened up, I mean, when the restrictions from the lockdown were lifted and things started rolling again. Yeah, yeah. And we are still talking about that you had no education when it comes to videography, photography. No, I was self-thought. YouTube videos basically. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I find impressive because you can spend a lot of money on education,

but in the end, as we said, if you don't have any connections, you still need to start on the bottom. So I think this is a great example that if you want, if you are hard working, and if you go for it, you can achieve it. Absolutely. And whoever wants to put their career first, because university can be a great experience, from my years of experience in UK as well, as soon as you turn 18, go and find good people to work under and learn. You will learn so much faster.

Like, obviously, for me, unfortunately, the education increase is free. It's part of the tax you pay. So the whole idea of paying like 20, 30 grand for a university degree was beyond me, no matter how student loans work. So I would never do that either way. But at the end of the day, if you want to be a year, to learn, the best way to learn is working under the right people. And when I say the right people, it's not only referred to their skill set. It refers to them being nice people to work

under. You don't want someone who will work you to death, basically. And can you share maybe some tips or advice how to find these type of gigs, you know, such as help with behind the scenes or in the background? Because to start somewhere, but still probably hard to find or where to look or whom to speak to? Have you got any advice? Yes. It depends obviously where you're based. But the easiest way I will say so is that the video production industry is mostly operating through Instagram. That's the main platform that everyone is on. If you want to message people, message them there. If you want to get in touch with people, get in touch there. There are a few accounts among Instagram and Facebook groups,

because Facebook groups used to be throughout the 2010s, how everything would operate. There are fewer accounts who their only job is reposting other people's posts when they're looking for work. So, for example, I'm a producer myself. I need, let's say, a cameraman tomorrow. Sorry, cameraman is a, yeah, cameraman or cameraman, however we want to describe it. I want a camera operator. DOP. Yes, DOP is a different role.

But let's say, okay, cool, it's easier. Let's say, I need a DOP to come tomorrow. to my set, I post it online on my story, I tag to three of those accounts, and basically, they repost it on their following, and their following is like 50, 60, 70, whoever follows them, basically, whoever is looking for work, and then people go through those stories and they get in touch with people and they let them know. A few of those platforms that you can find, at least on Instagram, their names, if people want to write them down, they're called Assisting Work, that's one of them.

The second one is called Kid Circus, that's as one word, but it's easier to pronounce us too. And the third one is called UK Filmwork for people who are based in the UK. Those are the three main accounts that are operating on Instagram. And then you have Facebook groups who are operating under different names, depending on your role. You can search based on it. And then you have one main platform that's called Nova, N-O-V-A, which is like the main global platform where different production companies are being connected with crew and freelance crew in order to open positions and allow people to come to their sites and work with them basically.

Yeah, that is so smart and sounds easy as well. It is easy. Like, to be honest with you, the way I got into the industry, it was because I realized that nobody will hire me based on my CV because my CV was empty. So the only reason people will hire me, which comes back to how you can provide value to people, is because they have a last minute request they need, like last minute help, they need an extra pair of hunts or something,

and they are stressing. So what you do is you help them by alleviating the stress. So that's why, for example, I would go to the stories, but I would wake up as early as possible. Like, I'm not an early riser, but let's say I would wake up at 6 o'clock, which means that if someone pause and these things get reposted half six in the morning,

it means that and they need someone to be there at 8 o'clock, whoever wakes up there are only a few people who will be waking up at that time so it doesn't matter it doesn't matter your CV doesn't matter anything would be like John just yeah come down we need someone

because they don't have time to go through your CV and find the best fit and etc basically so how you can provide value to people is the best way to get in an industry and it reminds me that I think a few days ago I actually saw on your Instagram in stories that you were looking for someone.

So when there is a scenario like this, can you say, for example, how many people, you know, are interested in doing the gig? I understand the difference based on conditions and time. It usually depends. To be honest with you, the first thing it depends on is obviously your profile. Like I have been in industry quite a while for now. I have been very active at it. So people know that will get in touch with me because they know that if I post a story, it's a solid work.

I mean, sometimes people post stories and they ask, but as employers, they are not very, they don't have a very good reputation, so people don't want to reply. But I would say, and the second thing depends on, it depends on how the industry is. So for example, the story you saw, it got about 100 replies. And now we are, yes, and we are talking within. It takes time to go through.

We are talking within seven to eight hours. The reason, though, is because the industry, our industry at the moment is a bit slow, like many people are looking for work. So many people are very active online. Our industry goes through faces in general. It depends like usually now because of technological things like AI because of budgets and recession.

Marketing always gets a hit first before anyone else. So we are going through a weird face at the moment and many, many people are looking for work primarily because as soon as we got out of COVID, the first two years out of COVID, It was so busy that so many people got in the industry as well. And now the demand and supply doesn't really count out. So it's a bit of a weird phase at the moment. And I honestly wasn't expecting so many replies. So it can be also advised for the other side.

So when you've got so many replies, how do you then pick the right one? Because it's so many that it must be overwhelming. Yes, that's true. The way I pick the right one, first of all, is reputation, unfortunately, unfortunately. Like the projects we work on, we have very high expectations from the people we bring on board. So basically, I will go to the profile and if they have worked with people I know and trust, because our industry, at least in London and global in general, it's not that big. Like, people feel it is big, but at the end of the day, if you work a few years, you pretty much know,

most people, at least across your medium. Like, for example, like the commercial world has different people than the narrative world, like features, than the reality world, like TV, than the music promo world. Obviously, these worlds have different circles.

But yes, if they have worked with people I like and with people I trust, that means, you know, the friend of my friend is also a friend. So that's one way. And the second way is how they reply to my message. if it's like, hello, John, I would be interested, and that's it. Unless I know their name, unless they are an already made person, I know the name, it wouldn't be, it would be a straight no.

Like, because I try on my stories to be specific, so I might say that I'm looking for a DOP that has drink experience, is available on the 1st of November, the suit is in London, the pay is that much. I might not say numbers, but there are certain specific way we describe operates in our industry. Now, if someone get in touch and they send me over a few examples have done that's around drinks, they say I'm available on the 30th, they say I'm London based, et cetera, et cetera. It means that they have read and they have replied and I can

keep the conversation with them without asking questions that they should reply to me from the first message, if that makes sense. So they give me a good example that they're going to be an easy person to work with because they are proactive. Yeah, I think it's, you said it perfectly. I remember when I used to go to university, probably the biggest takeaway or advice that our professor used to say was that reputation is everything. You said that in the beginning, so I can completely agree. You know, it takes long time to build it, to develop it, and it can be broken or destroyed just in a second. So I can only agree with what you said.

Absolutely. And then to come back to. start of your career when you move to London. Did you have like a role in mind that you wanted to achieve? Because for example, as you started doing behind the scenes, did you know that you want to be you know, DOP or producer or something else? That's the first time someone asked that question actually. It is great to answer because I have a great, for me, yeah, great story to tell a lot. I always want to be a director. I thought, I thought like the amount of creative expression I was just getting through my early 20s and it was feeling like a getaway from whatever I was doing in

uni because I was such a good student. I always had that validation that I was doing well in life. Then I went to uni in a very high expectation, high demand like place in any way where I was with other very smart young adults. And I realized... Is it like a small fish in a big pond? Exactly. I realized that I realized that I am very... that smart, I belong here, but in order to be on the first second place you were before, now you need to work. Before would be just, you know, the mind and the understanding and a bit of work here and there, but now you need to work. And obviously, people were much more passionate

than me on the subject and so they worked. And they had the mentality as well. Back then, I didn't have the mindset. So the creativity made me validate the fact that I was good at something, my early 20s and something else and I was feeling good. So from that part I was like okay cool that's what I want to do in my life and director sounds great. The reason I thought about director is obviously because directors get also the most fame online. They get the most validation. They get the most credit. Plus in Greece because the industry doesn't have that many clear roles. Many people are doing many different things because of the scale of the productions. A director is a very well-known role where, for example, you might not have like a DOP and the first assistant, the second assistant camera.

And, you know, you might not have all these things. So when I moved here, I was like, okay, cool, I want to be a director. And that's what I want to do. Then I went on set. I saw a director. I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. They have the nice status, et cetera. And then my first proper job was a feature film I was part of for Netflix.

And that's when I saw big scale production. It was a very entry-level role. It wasn't anything crazy. But I was part of it. And can you name? What was the production? So it's for a film called Choose or Die. It's a very low-rated film.

It was on Netflix actually for... It was like, I think it was rate first for a couple of weeks or so. It's with Asa Butterfield for everyone who knows. So basically, yes, when I went there, I realized that my power... hides in rationality, logistics, empathy, being good with people coming from a computer engineering background. I used to understand much more Excel sheets, numbers, organization than creative people do. So I was like, oh, okay, cool.

That's great. And then I saw what a producer does. And I was like, okay, cool. So they deal with the organization, they deal with the planning. they also deal with the creative but they work more as an advisor on it it's not their responsibility and I was like that's great

because I've seen directors where it's because creative is their responsibility and then they have a vision for what they want to create and then the client pushes them towards another side and then they don't want what they they don't create what they want they start feeling a resentment towards their arts because at the end of day

they're first a professional and second an artist so for me the producer was like okay cool I would never have to to bear that that feeling like I can advise on the creative but because it's not my responsibility it's fine just make the budget work make people feel good and make yeah like make good stuff yeah that's interesting to hear because I actually studied film at university and I remember in the first year the professor asked us what role we would want to to do or focus on in the last thing.

And as you said, the majority of people want it to be directors. Because of course, directors are the biggest fame when you see the movie. They are like number one behind the film. And throughout the years, you kind of discover that it's not that easy. I'm not saying that it's not a

fulfilling or exciting job, but people discovered other roles. And in the end, there are just a few directors and there's obviously a lot of pressure and all the points you mentioned. So I can totally relate to absolutely I've never met one person who went to film school and they didn't say exactly the same story you said to me the first day and I always say like at the end of the day unfortunately

you the way I describe is like you you pick you pick like a small stone in London and under it you will find the director like there are so many of them like honestly there are how many yeah just a side note I googled I had a quick look at the TV series that Asa Butterfield is in. I think it's sex education. Yes, that's correct. Yeah, so it's a big one. It was very popular.

He's a very well-known actor from a child. He has participated. I don't remember actually the name of the films. Unfortunately or fortunately, for my good, I'm not great with films, to be honest with you. And as I said before, my memory is terrible, so I don't hold names. But he used to be a young actor on one of Scorchez's films. and that's where he blew up from. I think it's Hugo, isn't it?

With Sosha Baran Cohen, isn't it? Hugo, yes, that's correct. That's correct, yes. Yeah, that's good. So how was actually the experience on the first big feature? It must have been great, one. Well, it was COVID. So it wasn't super great.

People were wearing masks, keeping two meter distances, and sanitizer hands every five minutes. So I would not say it was the best. At the same time, it was the best. It was the first time people came after a lockdown together to do a film and do what they love. So even with the restrictions, they were so happy to be back in action and work and do what the craft and be active. So, yeah, for me it was great. I learned so much, honestly.

It's like, it's the first time I saw a big set. It's the first time I saw clear roles. It's the first time I saw big production. I learned how things should be done properly when you have money. which unfortunately again is not always the case and I just had the opportunity to learn from great people I was I was very lucky in all honest I was very lucky to learn from great people early on are you looking to elevate your online presents check out trailblazed our digital marketing agency whether it's standing out on

social media crafting a stunning new website or developing impact for visuals trailblaist has got your back visit trailbased dot digital and reach your online potentials a day And as you mentioned in the beginning, you actually have the company called Storyflow. So can you tell us how did you get to it to set up your own company? Yes, obviously. So two years in, I went, I did three projects in narrative. I did this Netflix film.

I did a documentary with HBO for Richard Branson about his life. And then I did a TV series. with James Gordon called Mommels under Amazon Prime. Those were the three projects I did. The Mammals project, because it was a TV series, it was the longest project I did, which again, for some other films might not be that long, but it was like five months long.

It was long hours every day. It was six days work week. It was during the summer. The summer was horrible in terms of like how the summer was the decay. War. Yeah, it's like rainial. they were filming in fields like, I'm coming from Greece.

My summer is getting on the bike and enjoying, you know, being in the sea all day and having cocktails. That was where my summer was. It sounds very privileged. I know, sorry to everybody who is coming from northern countries,

but that was the perspective I had. So, to be honest with you, I loved so much, but it was tough. And I was like, well, do I want to do that for the rest of my life? And just, you know, growth through the ladder because the film structure is the most corporate structure in the industry in order to get a high role you have to wait a few years because there are many old people in

the industry so you know there is always I think of oh it took me five 10 years back in the days to get that promotion why should it take him on even though even if you are um even if you are suitable for it so that's when my supervisor my manager back then he was like Like, John, take a break. You did a long, you have done like nine, ten months of very long suits. Take a break and go to the commercial world, explore that. It's much shorter projects, it's good money, and see, you know, come back when you feel like it. And that's why I did.

I turned to the commercial world and to the fashion world. I did quite a lot of fashion as well. That's what I did for the next until now, basically. And I loved it. I loved it. It wasn't only the short form, it wasn't only the money. It was the fact that I was like, there is some opportunity here to tell stories about brands. And the distribution, the fact that I was like, we can create a TV commercial.

And that TV commercial will be seen by so many people. And it's much trickier in one minute to tell a story that will touch someone. Because at the end of the day, like, sorry to say it like that, but there is a lot of crap out there when it comes to commercials. like, you know, at least with films because it's either someone's life project or there is a lot of money behind it. There is usually more sophistication and more thoughtfulness on how they are going to plan things. It doesn't mean it always comes out good, but at least people think about it. In the brand world, because of how fast people want to act, sometimes there is not much thought going into it. And nowadays, volume is so important that people just want to get out content and content and more content and feed.

your audience with more stuff, BVs will on top of their mind without actually thinking why you are on top of the mind, what are you on top of their mind of? So that opportunity draw me in very much. It seems very attractive to me. It still is nowadays. And I think in a very selfish way

and that's how I start. It's not anymore, but in a very selfish way, I want to run my own company. I want to be my own boss. Unfortunately, social media got into me, entrepreneurship got into me. I was like, oh, you know, similar with the director.

I will be that cool kid again who does the wrong thing. Yeah, that's why I start the company. It's a dumb decision to start the company for that reason. But that's why I did it. Fortunately, two years later, I found my path.

I had conversations. I had hard times. And now I have found the purpose of why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I can, you know, I can sleep in peace at night of why I'm putting so much effort into it and not just, you know,

to look myself in the mirror, it'd be like, oh, you are good. So you're great. People love you. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that and it was a great piece of advice because people may, of course, it's a privilege to work on big productions, then see your name in the credits. But if that's, if that's something that's you don't really enjoy and you don't see yourself

doing for the rest of your life, why not explore something else? And as you said, you found something meaningful? No, absolutely. What works better for you? And like to be honest with you, one thing I always say to people, I'm not a creative person. I try that to say to people. And because friends of mine, they would be like, oh, John will help us. He works in the creative world.

He's a creative. I'm like, no, I work in the creative world. I love creative people. I love working with creative people. I'm not a creative person myself. And another thing I always mention in terms of like my value to the projects we do in the creative way is a friend of mine. his name is Jake, he told me very well, John, you are not a writer,

you are an editor. And what he means by that is if you give me a blank canvas, I cannot come up with anything. I have no idea how to start something. Like, I cannot create something from scratch. But if you give me, let's say, a first draft of a video,

I can tell you exactly what the notes should be in order to edit it for the second draft and have something that would be phenomenal. Yeah, yeah. You said it well, actually, at first I thought that you are a creative person as well when I came across your profile on LinkedIn. So I'm not surprised that that's what people thought. But at least now they see what is the reality. And then can you try to introduce what do you do? Of course, your day-to-day job probably differs. But to get an idea, what is it? Like your task, your daily activities and what's behind the scenes? Yes, of course. So under Storyflow, my role obviously within the video production industry would be a producer. I will touch about the data of that.

Within Storyflow, I also act as a client director, account management. Like I also manage our clients because of we are a small team. But basically when a brief comes in, usually we work with agencies, advertising agencies, branding agencies, marketing agencies. They send us a brief of one for their clients. And they're like, John, we have this video brief. We want to create this video project. We have, let's say, three companies that we want to pitch for it. And in that process, basically, what we do is for myself, I bid for it,

which means, like, I create together a budget, and I bid for the job based on the brief to understand if it's feasible, sometimes a budget. You know, you might have a job that says 100, 200, 300, 300, K as a budget, and people will be like, that's amazing. And then you sit down to be like, to see how you will produce what you'll, produce and you see that costs 400 to do it. So you're like, well, if I do that job, I will spend four months of my life and I will lose a hundred grand.

So it's, you know, the numbers can sound amazing at times, but people really don't understand often how much production costs because in people's minds it can be like, oh, it's a camera person with a camera comes in, five people to help, say it up, that's it, you know, finished. So I budget for the project and then I sit down with a director and then with a director based on the theme of the brief, we will choose the right creative director to be responsible for it and we'll create together what is called a treatment or a pitch, depend on the stage, which means like we'll decide on a creative idea and of how we execute it based on the brief and why they should work with us.

And then based on that we'll present on the client, we'll pitch for it, we'll compete for it. If we win, basically after that, we bring the project to life, which means that we start hiring the crew, we start hiring the right people, we start prepping, like finding all the props, finding all the costumes, finding, booking all the suppliers we need to book from camera, lighting gear, locations, all of that stuff. And then we deal with the suit in itself, which is another beast of its own if you want to talk about it. And then after the suit, we deal with the whole post-production, which is like ensuring that we meet all the timelines, Because we work on larger scale project, there is very strict schedules we need to follow because of the deadlines. So just to make sure that our clients are going to feedback on time, we are going to amend our feedback. We always have legal process to go through as well because it might be through bigger branch or it might be going through TV.

So in broadcast in general, so we have to go through legal processes that they take a long time. So it's mostly like a beast of managing the numbers and the schedule and the logistics and the people's mood. Because sometimes a project starts and it will last three months and it ends up lasting six months. And people keep people like your director, your team, the client as well, the agency as well, people get tired because it should be done by now. And then by the time you should be done, you might not even have done the suit yet. So you always have to be responsible about how you manage your team and lifting up their spirits, keeping everyone doing the best work they can do. Yeah.

And then my question was, what would be like the length of the project? But you mentioned that you work on larger productions and it can be, for example, three months. So is it usually like a scale of months? Usually I would say the average project, we usually say it's eight weeks. We are working in large productions. We are not working the largest productions. And we are being brought at a later stage. Like, obviously, the agency with the client, they might go through a six-month process,

but they bring us in on the last two months when it comes to production. So it's usually eight weeks. But yes, we had projects that they last five, six, sometimes even more months. It can be very, like, whatever. Yes, exactly. Awesome. What's the part of your work or this whole process that you enjoy the most? Clear answer.

People, I don't know what is the part of the process. I don't like tasks in general, but people, like working with people, finding the right people, like allowing people to do their work for anyone who might follow already or might follow after this podcast, my post on LinkedIn. I'm very big on creating the nice environment for other creatives to thank you. thrive and do their work. And also, very important, get paid properly. That's the one in the early. People don't talk about, financials. Like, creatives need to master their financials and get paid what they worth. But yes, like seeing people I know that they are very capable of

doing great work. And in the past, they have struggled in their freelance life or full-time life because people didn't give them the right opportunities. See them thrive because we create this environment where they can do that. And obviously that's a contribution of everyone, not only ourselves, our agency, our clients, the other people who work with my team. There is nothing more fulfilling. Like, I can go and work hours and hours and hours of tasks that I wouldn't otherwise want to do only by seeing that kind of result within the team.

Yeah. And I can also imagine that it must be quite stressful. So is it stressful for you? And if so, how do you deal with this? all the stress. That's something I'm trying to get better at. It is stressful because I make it for myself stressful. At the end of the day, Tom's like, I think it's not, I'm not the first person.

I've heard that from other people, but we create videos. We don't save lives in any way. Like, our work is fun first, important second in terms of the larger scale and the larger theme of the world. Like, you know, it might be, we might have like a deadline or something like that on Friday day and people will stress and I'll be like, don't worry, leave it for Monday, like go enjoy your weekend or, you know, don't sit in the office or from your home however someone is working 8, 9 o'clock. Unless that's how you operate, unless you are productive then and you don't work in the morning.

I mean, obviously because everyone has their own workflow. But, you know, don't stay at your laptop for 12, 14 hours in order to master something and send to the client just for them to not be, you know, to be happy. I prefer to be like, take the hit. It's my responsibility. I will say to the client, sorry, we missed a deadline. And we take that hit, and based on that, we learn to adjust our timeline next time. And we play the long-term game.

And I think apologizing in our industry, you know, we all make mistakes. It's fine. As long as our partners see that we are sincere, we care about them in the best way possible, they will stay with us for the long term. But, you know, just chasing mistake after mistake, I try to fix it on the spot by damaging your own mental health. and your own longevity, it's never a good thing. I have many friends who are like 30 mid-30s and they quit the industry because it destroyed

them. Like they push themselves too hard and obviously you cannot sustain that for a long period of time. Yeah. Don't take you that seriously and focus on mental health as well. Don't underestimate it. Absolutely. Especially if it's a very competitive industry but still you need to stay alive and stay sane. And as people can see, for example, from the website of Storyflow, you worked with some big brands, with some big clients.

So how did you get to work with such a big names? First of all, thank you. I appreciate that. You can even name some because, like, we trade the biggest brands. I remember, for example, Nike. We have worked. We early on worked with Rebook. We have worked with TikTok Europe for a bit.

like we've worked with timeout before we've worked with mini cooper before but the way we got the opportunity to work with such great brands I think it was mostly being active online like through my LinkedIn helps our business quite a lot because at the end of the day I'm vocal about I tried to have an opinion I try to have a perspective I try to not be I try to not please everyone and I think you know at the end of the day our industry, creating industry is extremely talented. There are so many talented people in terms of the actual work to do the work that what matters a lot to the client to us to everyone who works with other people and collaborate is finding nice people to work with, finding people you like to spend

time with and work with them. Because as we said before, something can be a long project, can be stressful. Find people who, the way I describe, you have a Zoom call with someone. when you press that join the Zoom meeting or whatever platform you use, how do you feel? If you feel dreadful, if you're like, I hate to join this call and you're like, that's not the person who wants to work. Again. Oh my God. Obviously, you might have that even when you work with lovely people if you had the long day

or anything. But on a standard day, if when I work with the right people, I want to join that call because I know I will laugh. I know, you know, I will have an open conversation. I know we will solve problems and will make progress. So, yes, I think like being vocal online and having an opinion on certain things, obviously made some people to not be the biggest fans of mine, but it made some other people to relate, resonate, and just reach out and be like,

you know, we might be able to work together. So I think that's what helped. Yeah, I like it. And it was a great example because I can see myself in it as well. It's like, you know, you've got a call to join and you're like, oh, my God, I don't want to join or again. Of course, everyone sometimes feels like that. But when there is a one that you are excited to join, it makes it difference. Yeah, absolutely.

Have you then got a brand or anyone that you dream to work with or you would like to work with? Very interesting question. I'm not sure, to be honest, if you like, I, you know, it's like Apple and Nike, obviously, are two brands. there that everyone would like to work with mostly because their creative is very huge. I have worked with Nike already in my past, not with Storyflow. I worked as a freelancer and it was a great experience. But it really depends on the creative. Like if the creative idea is ambitious, it has a meaning, it has a message, then I don't

care what brand name sits behind it. What I really care about is what people should behind it. Like, I have certain people in the industry who I would love to work with. I don't know them. I haven't met them. Okay. I haven't met them. But because of the way they present themselves online, similar to what I told you

that clients might find on me and they decide to work with Storyflow, because of the opinion they express online and the position they try to, they attempt to take in the industry as an individual, I admire them. And I'm like, I would love to work with you. So I think another tip that was given recently. Recently, when at the beginning I was chasing big brands all the time. And recently, I was told like, John, whatever you're doing life, the only thing you need to do, find the right people. Don't care about the right companies.

Don't care about the right job title. Don't care about the right. I don't want to say salary because, again, that sounds very privileged, but don't care about like small things that people care around. Care about working with or for or whatever you want to use. with the right people all the time. So that's what matters to me the most. Yeah. And I think good takeaway for other people in their care of as well.

You mentioned it before and it would be shame not to discuss it at least a bit. Your presence on LinkedIn. Something I'm always curious about is how did you actually discover LinkedIn? Or maybe a better question. When did you discover it's potentially? It's more than just online CV. Yes. when I start my company, I was looking for ways I didn't have any money aside.

I didn't have any savings to put on it. I mean, in fact, over the long term, I end up putting all my savings in it. But at the time when I started, they didn't have any savings. So what I decided to do with it, I was like, where can I find an edge? Where can I find? I knew I wanted from the beginning because that's where my experience comes from. and that's where my aspirations come from. I didn't want us to create very small, low-budget videos,

and then over the years, you undercharge, you keep the client happy, or the client hires you back, or you wish that one day some other bigger client will see that work and they will hire you and you will get paid properly. And then very, very, very slowly, through pain mainly, you get to grow as a company and you get to become this thing where they actually do something with large budgets. I was like, I want to be known from the beginning,

a company that does, like, is responsible for certain ambitious projects in terms of scale. So, by the same time, your competition for something like that is other big companies that have, like, many resources for marketing, they have whole teams. So how can you find them as an individual? So I was looking for that edge. At the time, LinkedIn was not as famous as it is today. And when I said the time, I mean two years ago, like the platform has changed dramatically. over the last two years in terms of the perspective that outsiders have for it.

So, as I said before, if you want to find jobs for the creative world, go to Instagram, and that's true today, and that's where most people are, because Instagram is a very visual platform and people love, love posting their work there. The one bad thing with creative, advertisers, marketers, whatever, they care more about other colleagues of theirs, like, you know, if you are a creative, you care more about another creative saying a good work about your work because you value the opinion and the skills that they have so you feel good validation than hearing your client saying you have a good work but the thing is like your client pays you so for me was like okay cool let me go to lincoln

where not many creatives exist and when i say exist i mean being active creators because many people are very snobby about LinkedIn they don't like it they're like oh that's a very corporate platform we're not active yeah so let me go there where there is not going to be months of competition. The competition that exists on LinkedIn, it was similar to what I mentioned before. It was smaller companies who realized what I realized as well, that clients are on LinkedIn, but they didn't have that bigger production experience. So their position, their information, their knowledge comes from a very different place than mine comes from. And I think, like, it's the most consistent thing I have done. I don't know how impactful it is for me to say

something that everyone says online, that consistency matters. But for the last like two years, five days a week, I won't say every week, but most weeks, I'm there, I post online, I comment, I care, I try to provide value, I try to not post garbage. Eventually sometimes I might have done so, but even that helped me to curate my content. And yeah, like it works. Like if you asked me, it feels like a long time ago when I started, but in the grant scheme, two years, it's not that much.

Yeah. I was about to ask you for some piece of advice, but I think you just said that because it's the truth, you've got some great following, more than 20K followers, which is impressive number, some, you know, good engagement.

So I was about to ask you for advice, but is there maybe something else that you would point out? Yes, it depends on what you are on LinkedIn force. I know some people obviously are there just to collect numbers, but for me, I'm not that proud of the 20K followers.

I'm more proud of who are, what people exist within that 20K group. And there are some great influential, very knowledgeable people around the creative industry. And I think that's something that I wasn't very considerate of at the beginning. At the beginning, I was like, let's see numbers growing. Let's see numbers, secreting. Where are people from? From the other side of the world?

What the profession they do? Nothing related to what I'm talking about. Why do they engage? Just because they want me to engage back. And I was like, it doesn't matter. It's okay. Follow a number the other day. Nowadays, I block many people.

I stop interacting with many people. And I'm like consciously trying to only attract people who exist within my industry. So if I would have an advice, I would like do that from the very beginning. Don't care that much about the following number. Care about the right people following you. Care about speaking to the right people. Care about interacting with the right people. At the end of the day, if you are on LinkedIn, you should be there.

for business or you should be there for like when I say for business you might not have your company you might be full-time employee you should be there for connections if that's a better way to put so speak with the people you want to speak with and not just everyone yeah that was great I wasn't expecting something like that but I liked it's something that will be takeaway from for me as well and as we will be soon approaching the end what are your plans for the future whether it's related to your company, to yourself, to your LinkedIn journey or even something else. Yes. So one thing I want to invest a lot on more effort. I've started the last four months and I've done such a start-stop thing. Like whatever I said about consistent before, I'm not consistent

at all with it. It's my newsletter. I want to talk to people more about video, more in-depth, give more examples like stuff that I don't have the opportunity to do as much. on LinkedIn because, because like best performing content is content that is more like short and straight and less like very long. And I think that's where I want to invest more time of mine for the next year. But I have to stick on it because I say the same thing for the last four months. And the other thing I would say which is for the longer term future, which I wasn't very vocal about until recently, but I was like, you know, better speak about your plans.

at some point in my life I want to be part of a brand I want to start to start a brand with other people I would love to put my knowledge within a smaller team that starts something ambitious and they have a product to offer to the world

I love the agency side I love the production company side and it fulfills me so much for now but I think I will reach a point in my life where I'll be like I want to start a company where we serve customers and we don't serve other companies so that makes sense like

you know we are more yeah we're more close to it yeah so then you want to promote your company your profile where people can find you if you don't mind i will ask you the same question back if that's okay well what is your own plan of you for the future for me is it related to something specific or no no no just tell me i mean obviously i have i've spoken the most on these episodes i think i would love And people would love to hear from you as well. What would be the plan for the future? I definitely hope and plan to continue with the podcast because that's the great way how I can speak with people that I would never speak with. For example, with you, I would probably, I don't think there would be a chance or maybe some random chance how we would speak.

So this is a great way how to speak with people from all kinds of industries, areas, you know, levels of expertise. So I hope to continue. Then career-wise, I've got also my company, which is a digital marketing agency. It's just a little company, so I hope to grow that. And besides this, when it comes to any personal life or hobbies, I'm a big fan of sports. So I hope to continue with the sports that I do. I hope to travel more and enjoy life. I know it sounds cliche, but I have to be a good.

time. That's why it should be about. I started going to the gym for months ago for the first time in my life. I always neglect. I always mock it up. I thought it wasn't for me. And it has changed my whole life. Not only in terms of health, in terms of energy.

Like I feel so good for myself that I have one thing blocked in my calendar that I just go there. I do it. And the day can go terrible. But even when it goes terrible, I can fall back to that one thing. I'll be like, you know what? I did my session today. At least that.

Like I did my session. Yeah. I completely agree. It's like a little achievement that teaches you many more things, you know, such as discipline, improves your, you know, health. You might meet some people. It gives you some other goals in life. So I can only recommend it as well.

Absolutely. So I'm glad that you found it and I hope you will continue. And it's great. I have to say you're doing such a great job with the podcast. First of all, like you're a great listener. Thank you so much for today. It's nice to hear, thank you. I have seen some of the past episodes, and I'm guessing like the listeners have also listened to some of them.

And you have brought some people that I have never found another podcast that would bring this kind of people. And they had great depth in stuff they talk about, either around the film industry or around video production or around the creative world. Like, you know, it's not the most trendy topics, but they are so helpful and so knowledgeable to do. talk and learn from. So I truly appreciate you for giving a platform to people that otherwise they might not find it because not everyone is after them to talk on the podcast. I think it's really nice to hear and mean something. So I really appreciate it.

Of course. And you spoke about it, but I think you haven't said it. Where can people follow you or any services? Of course, it's your company and LinkedIn, but maybe something else as well. I think that to be honest with you, the best way for. people to follow me and if you want to follow more about my content and learn like of the opinions and perspectives I carry, my LinkedIn profile would be the best. Obviously, I can give you 10 different links we have across online or within my company and myself. But if the links are not very active,

they are not very helpful. At the end of the day, the companies we work with and our clients are coming from referrals and very selective. Like, as I said, apart from my marketing, we're not, apart from my LinkedIn profile, we're not very big on marketing. So please go go follow me on my LinkedIn profile. Comment, engage, challenge, the biggest thing. If you hear something or you read something, you're like, John, I disagree. Come on it with an argument and I'm more than happy to discuss and I'm more than happy for you to change my perspective.

I think that's all about anything that has to do with con creation is about sharing, is about interacting, is about evolving, it's about progressing. and yes, I love nothing more than people challenge me and changing my perspective on stuff. So please come there and maybe you learn something. Yeah, I will make sure to add any links to the show notes. And I think then we can finish John. I want to say a huge thank you.

I really appreciate your time and thank you so much for the kind words that you said. It was nice to chat and I will be happy to catch up anytime in the future again. So thank you and good luck. Thanks so much, Thomas. I really appreciate you. And thanks so much everyone for listening to this.

Thanks for listening to Produce by With Tomlin. Check out show notes for all the links. And don't forget to like, subscribe and leave your feedback. Speak soon.