Produced By - #SPECIAL - Jafar, KC, Teddy and Bruna: Team Behind a Short Film Perfidia

Starting point is 00:00:03 In today's special episode I was joined by part of the team behind Perfidia, an ambitious short film that is currently competing in festivals. The crew consists of a British-Kurdish producer Jafar Muhammad, a British Kenyan co-writer and editor Teddy Deguna, Portuguese writer and director Brunapius, and a British producer Casey Hughes. He mostly talked about their experiences making Perfidia a short film about male domestic abuse victims which they made together. The discussion covered everything from its conception, production and future plans to turn it into a television series.

Starting point is 00:00:39 We also got to know the team better as they talked openly about their backgrounds, prior education and career obstacles. For filmmakers, students and anybody working in the creative sectors, this episode is packed with excellent tips. Additionally, they provide some useful resources that might be helpful to many people when they enter this industry. Listen to this episode to learn more about perfidias behind the scenes, find out how to get your short film commission for a TV series and get inspired by the incredible energy on this amazing team. Enjoy. Hello everyone, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. We've got a special episode today with more guests than usual. So can one of you start, please, and introduce yourself? I can start. Hi, my name is Bruna. I'm a Portuguese writer-director

Starting point is 00:01:31 based in London and yeah I usually write and direct films or edit them. Awesome, I'll go next. Hi, I'm Casey. I am a producer, assistant director and occasional team assistant I'm London based also. I am from Great Britain and it's wonderful to be here. Yeah, I'll step up. My name's Sedi, I'm a filmmaker, I write and I occasionally produce alongside KC here. I've been working as a location assisted for the last year now with Coronation Street. I am from the UK. I am based in Manchester at the minute. My aim is I want to keep writing. I want to keep producing. I want to keep making stories alongside my great colleagues here. And thank you for having me.

Starting point is 00:02:14 My player. And Jafar? Hi there. I'm Jafar. I'm a Kurdish producer. I also like Tilly, made films along these amazing people right here. And I was a tram of trainee for Dance of London season two. And can you guys provide a bit of context? How do you know each other or why all of us is here together today? So we all met on a project called Profidia, which started off as a TV series and we did a sort of writer's room with myself, Teddy, and our other writer Liam. We ended up sort of developing this full TV series, but we didn't want the concept to

Starting point is 00:02:57 you know, die there. So we decided to do a short film that was produced by Casey and Jafar. And Profidia, the short film, is currently waiting on some festival results. It was completed early this year. So, yeah, that's kind of the last project we've done together

Starting point is 00:03:17 and we're currently developing more short films and potentially a web series. So it's exciting. Is short films somewhere available online? So currently, perfidia isn't available because a festival, you know, premier regulations and all of that, but hopefully soon. Yeah, fingers crossed that it will be successful. How come you met each other? Was it coincidence or did you know each other before?

Starting point is 00:03:45 When we started the perfidio rioters room, it did start with just me and Liam. You know, we did start talking about it initially as a feature. But then I was just scrolling on Instagram as a. goes and one of the actors in the film by the name of Phoebe, like, I saw that she was in a film called Braids, which was one of Bruno's films. I kind of saw the trailer for it and I thought, wow, this actually looks sick. You know, so the first thing I did was like, I hate up Bruno on Instagram and said like, yeah, we got a thing going on, do you want to be a part of it? And honestly, to my God be surprised, she said yes. And it just started from there and the rest

Starting point is 00:04:17 is history. Yeah, I said yes because I thought the story was an important story to tell with an important theme. And then when we were looking into pitching the show, Jafar and KC sort of came on board and we started looking for places where we could go with the show and with all the materials that we had. Like many people in the industry, we got rejected by everyone. So we just... Not Netflix, though. Not Netflix? Netflix is more of a maybe. There's a question Mark a minute. It wasn't a maybe. It was more like if you partner yourself with an indie company that has more of a track record, then yeah, essentially we would consider it or be green there, I guess. Yeah, we kind of just need a bigger track record for ourselves. And if the short film does well,

Starting point is 00:05:10 it means that we can, you know, use it to bump up the TV show. Yeah, sounds really cool. And would it be like a first project of yours that will be adapted by such a big streaming service or like production company? Or do you have already a history of working for or something big like this? Well, I think it's sort of our first independent project per se. So we've all done short films usually as students before. Profidia as a short film is our first fully independent. We raised the money. We did it all ourselves.

Starting point is 00:05:46 and the TV series, you know, it's not the first writer's room I'm a part of personally, but it would be a big step up in a way of getting a screen credit for all of us, I believe. And do you want to introduce us film a bit if it's not secret? Essentially, Puffidio follows a story of a young musician who gets trapped in an abusive relationship after finding out the circumstances of his girlfriend's pregnancy. We thought it was an important story to tell because at that time you didn't really see stories like that.

Starting point is 00:06:20 I mean, you would see it occasionally as a cursory story on, let's say something like casualty or on coronation Street, for example. But, you know, like no films outside of made-for-TV film in the 90s. That sort of subject approached. And it kind of takes a more personal place in my life because it's actually kind of based on a previous relationship

Starting point is 00:06:38 that I was in. I did what any same filmmaker in that situation would do after going through something like that, I thought, how can I make a film about this? That was like my thought process at that time. But as Bruno mentioned before, it started up as a feature because I kind of just formatted everything on the page

Starting point is 00:06:56 and ended up churning out 150 pages initially. He saw that and was like, nah. Then at that point, Liam came in and we started spitting some ideas back and forth. And then after that, I got in touch with Bruno and then we kind of started to streamline it a little bit. And then after that, Jafar and KC, who I knew from my university days, we both went to the same uni. From that point on, it kind of just sort of went off from there.

Starting point is 00:07:22 And did you all go to Middlesex, or what today did you go to? I went to Met Film School in London. Well, I did my BA in Portugal, where I'm from, and then I did my master's degree at Met Film School. But Jaffari went to Middlesex, right? Yeah, I went to Middlesets with Teddy. I think Casey went, he graduated a year earlier. Two years. Two years, sorry.

Starting point is 00:07:46 I didn't study film. What did you study, Casey? I studied biomedical fans. Interesting. How did you then get into the film? In 2018, I joined a charity for a friend. I did a thing for a friend, and they had a filmmaker course. I did that, and I kind of fell in love and haven't stopped making films since.

Starting point is 00:08:09 Yeah, that makes sense. That sounds good. So enjoy that? Yeah, well, 100% enjoy working for us. It's not lost on me the crazy stuff that Bramikas get to do. Yeah. And when it comes to the short film, can I ask you what was the budget? Or roughly?

Starting point is 00:08:26 10K. Oh, 10K. Okay, yeah. I've always back transparency. No, it's just to get some kind of context because I remember as students and trying to make short films, it gives me like a perspective to imagine how expensive was it? Honestly, like right now, I'm budgeting another short and it's already surpassed that.

Starting point is 00:08:47 At 10K, it's like at 20K right now. Casey, from that point on it, you're only going to be dealing with a big up man. This is something that students quite struggle with. Can you give some advice? How did you manage to raise the money? Did you do crowdfunding or how did you get it? Well, we did crowdfunding.

Starting point is 00:09:04 So we were lucky enough to, through the crowdfunding, finding our exec producer, who also donated quite a bit of it. But I think aside from the crowdfunding, one of the things was we all abdicated our payments in order to pay our crew because we all feel like we were willing to do this film for free for ourselves because it is our film as a team. but we know that it is important to set a standard that crew members and cast members should always get a fair salary, fair payment. So we made an effort to try and pay them. The other thing that we did was we made sure we were really nice to everybody and we got what you would call favors in the industry. And that's sort of how you get there is by making deals with people.

Starting point is 00:09:59 and getting people to come on board with a location or with kit and, you know, finding a way to get something for free or not. Well, it needs to reduce rate, you know? Or at least a reduce rate. So the money was mostly for our crew members and cast. And then everything else that comes with it, we really worked hard to do things by the books, but also try and get those favors in. And can you share a bit about the, let's say, production.

Starting point is 00:10:29 value of the film, such as what is the size of the crew, how many actors, maybe what were the locations. So we had two actors. We only had one location. We had a total crew of like, was it 28 people? Six, I believe, actually. Definitely than like the drivers and post. And how many days was production? The two days shoot, we had an extended post-production period, like, was it two and a half months? around there because we weren't working on post full time we were just doing it on weekend so that post process was very much extended and then if it gets adapted into TV series

Starting point is 00:11:11 so then I were going to expand on this story and basically write it just longer for I don't know eight episodes or how long we had a discussion about this the other day I think initially I wanted to do eight but then I think because we hadn't looked at in a while, you know, we look back, we were talking about it, we were saying, do you know, maybe we should do six instead.

Starting point is 00:11:33 You know, so the aim is still to expand it, long form, expand on the story of the characters. You know, but instead of doing eight episodes, we're going to do six instead. And I initially wanted to do eight by 45. I think we want to do six by 30. Is this decision up to you or if Netflix decides to adapt it? Is it up to Netflix or is it up to you? It's definitely going to be up to whoever can. missions us. But we'll be like, we can do it for this. They'll be like, you're going to do it for this.

Starting point is 00:12:03 I think we sort of just wanted to set also a realistic standard for ourselves. So we know that six is easier to sell than eight. You know, you just get to these conclusions by working in the industry. I worked in development for a while and KC as well. So we kind of just are aware of what the industry is looking for. And the truth is, maybe two years ago when we were working. working on the TV series the first time, we were saying, yeah, let's do eight episodes, let's do this, because that was what the industry was looking for at the moment. But now there are differences. Now second seasons aren't commissioned as frequently.

Starting point is 00:12:42 So doing a mini series is probably the easiest way to get a project made. So it's just a matter of sort of adapting our goals to what industry is asking for. And can you tell us a bit more about the process? Is it like trying to reach out to these companies or streaming services and trying to pitch your idea? Because I can imagine that's kind of a dream of everyone. So how did you go about it? How did that happen? We took a super indie approach.

Starting point is 00:13:13 Well, there's many ways where you could go, but usually you would be paired up with a production company. And they have this concept and they will approach other companies because it's very unlikely that they will cold read. someone's script. So what we did is, I mean, Teddy and Jafar, they set up the production company in which, you know, we ended up making the short film under and everything. And that really helped sort of go over a few hurdles. So it really helped get the other company's attention in a way. But we tried it. And the result was obviously not what we expected, or at least, you know, it wasn't, oh my God, they got a series commissioned out of the blue without any credits or anything, but we tried it. We definitely recommend, you know, going for it because I feel like that's

Starting point is 00:14:06 how you learn how to communicate with these companies, but it's very unlikely that a company will read something from an individual rather than a full company. They almost never. It also helped that some of us had contacts within the industry, so we gathered. a lot of emails and we just didn't email the bigger companies we emailed the smaller companies as well and you know we were close with some of them to get in the room to get a conversation but in the end it wasn't in the cards but yeah some of those companies just stop being companies exactly what do you mean by that can you elaborate i'll just say we had a company that was interested in reading the script and speaking to us but in a span of two weeks

Starting point is 00:14:53 they closed doors. So it was a bit of like a letdown for us, but to the industry, that's how it works. And we're basically trying to reach out to as many companies as you can and hoping, or where you're actually selective and picking those that you would want to work with? At first, we can't focus on the big boys, you know, to begin with. Because as we mentioned before, we know, one of the companies we reached out to was Netflix. You know, but then we reach out to loads of other, like,

Starting point is 00:15:21 not only streaming platforms, but also traditional broadcasters as well, I think in that span, we reached out to not only Netflix, but Prime Video, HBO, Channel 4, BBC, all them ones there. We approach all the UK commissioners.

Starting point is 00:15:37 I also do want to add, I think we kind of tried to look at a demographic group and kind of cater it towards set production companies or broadcast places and see which would kind of like permission it. So it became structured after that, I guess. Another thing I should add is that we reached out to this company, but prior, there was a lot of

Starting point is 00:15:59 work done. There was one year plus of work done on the show. So we reached out to them with a full script, and we reached out to them with a full concept or full treatment of what the show was going to be. We would probably have done it differently now, that we have more experience and we've done the short films and we're doing other stuff. but it's good to mention that it wasn't just an email saying, Hi, I have a TV show idea.

Starting point is 00:16:26 Would you like to make it? There were materials attached to it. There was a lot of work done beforehand. Yeah, I can imagine. Is it like presentation, preparing the pitch and everything like that? Or what is it like? I think it all we ended up having, we had like a pitch deck, cavity breakdown, pilot script.

Starting point is 00:16:45 As Brito was saying, like a lot of time and a lot of preparation, you know, went into it. Like we weren't going in, like just cold calling everyone. We went into this with like a full strategy and a full plan of how we were going to do it and what we were going to do, how we were going to present it to them. Yeah, I guess cannot underestimate it, right? They may reject us, but they can't fault the effort. Do you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:17:05 I think we added like a mood, kind of thing with the pitch step to give them like a visual, what we kind of want to make, how it feels. And I guess it's always better try to provide more than not enough and then be regretting that you could have done more. Well, you don't want to provide like an immense text because it's very likely that sex, they're always busy. So for them to take time to sit down and read, something has to appeal to them.

Starting point is 00:17:32 And that is why you try to make your pitch deck as visual as you can so that they open it and it's not just a blank page with text and they can follow the story and feel the story as they go through it. In a way, we knew that we had to be selected. with the materials as well. So we didn't send the full season with our 30-page word doc that we had, obviously. But we try to gather as much information to sell the feel of the show and the vision of the show that we could. Absolutely. And I wonder, as you mentioned before, that you tried to reach out to as many companies as you could. What is the ratio of the companies that actually get back to?

Starting point is 00:18:11 Do they at least say the reason why not, or they don't reply at all? Or what is it like? all the commissioners, I think all of them got back to us, right? I mean, 80% got back to us. Yeah. And a lot of them give feedback, and a lot of them were like, we love the concept. For instance, one commissioner was like, oh, we have something like this a few years back, so it's not really something that we're doing again right now. Once, like, not this thing wasn't for their target audience group, which subsequently I've worked for their pair of company and now know what their target group is.

Starting point is 00:18:44 That's good because I was expecting that you would say that, they don't even get back to you. But it's nice if they at least say the reason why not, or at least let you know that not. We get messages all the time, people look for jobs and stuff like that. And I always give them feedback whenever people send things or ask for things. Feedback is one of the most important things because it takes that pressure off of other people's minds. So if we can get feedback, I love it. And when it comes actually to pitching to the company, who were the,

Starting point is 00:19:17 people that were doing that was it producer with director or kind of core crew or who was there well pitching i think with perfidia did we pitch one time maybe did we get to that stage i'm not sure i think we kind of just got shut down you know in the email but from someone that has done pitching i can say that it would usually be the creators of the show. So in this case, we most likely be Teddy, Liam and I, maybe, or maybe just Teddy. So for me, when I pitched a show, it's because it is my idea and it's my concept. It was always me by myself. But I think we talked about having Teddy do sort of the initial setup as he is the creator. And then maybe Liam and I would step in to offer on the writing on Leon's end and sort of like the visual directing side on my end.

Starting point is 00:20:16 So Teddy as the creator, do you feel like there is or there was a lot of pressure on you? I would just say that there is pressure, no. Is it because you are used to it or you enjoy it or? I enjoy being in the room. Like, I enjoy being able to talk to people about the idea. Because I feel like, you know, that the idea we have is solid enough. We have a team that's solid enough to pull it off and to bring it together. So for me, that's never been an issue.

Starting point is 00:20:40 any pressure that comes I'll be pressure I'll be putting on myself you know thinking like I gotta get this right I gotta get this spot on when really at the end of the day I'm just doing the one thing

Starting point is 00:20:50 that I'm good at which is getting up in a room for the people and talking I mean 90% of the talking may end up being waffle but I can talk if the people can see that

Starting point is 00:21:01 the person who's pitching to them is passionate and engaged and knows their story it goes on the long way yeah 100% yeah It was great advice. So talking about advice, can you guys share some advice for students or starting filmmakers? What would you recommend them that is helpful for their careers or during education or even in film industry? That's a tough one actually.

Starting point is 00:21:26 I have a question like this. My environment. Because I never went to film school, the way I learn filmmaking is by doing. And that's what I've just consistently done. I've gone to other people's sets. I've had my own sets. Make things. If you're a director, make things. If you're a writer, write things. That's literally how you're going to learn. There's stuff you'll learn in film school, granted, but literally make things, watch things, read things. That's it. That's all you need. And Casey, do you feel like that you'll be in a better position

Starting point is 00:21:55 if you studied film or you are okay with the way it is and you are in a good position now? So when I go to networking events, I interrogate. My filmmaking colleagues, and one of the things that I've learned over the, the years is there are two major things you learn in from schools, how to tell a story and basically connections. Those two things you get, I should say. And over the years of me working after the group sets, I've started to build connections and learn how to make a thing. Like, I wouldn't be able to say I

Starting point is 00:22:29 could sit here and write a story because I'm not a writer, but I feel like I don't necessarily need to go to film school. What I do need is a bunch of mentors that I've, I had since starting this in this industry, and they've helped me on the skills and craft that I have. If I could add as well, everyone has their own journey. It's something that has been said to me since I started working in the industry, or since I started sort of dreaming of working in the industry when I was a young person. I think it's not a case of, oh, because you went to film school, you have more, or because you didn't go to film school, you are more valid.

Starting point is 00:23:09 There's none of that. Every person has a different journey. It's very difficult to set a pattern. It's not like, you know, you want to be an engineer. You go to university, you get your master's degree, and you do the exam to be on the engineering, whatever it is, and then you become an engineer, and you start working in your field and you go up the ladder.

Starting point is 00:23:31 In our case, it's very much whatever happens, happens and you just have to as case he said keep making and if you want to be a writer you write if you want to be a director you grab your phone and it's not as easy as people make it seem it's not a oh just go and do you know there should be a process before and being created all the time is so difficult so i definitely understand that not everyone can just go and do stuff but if that is your dream then grab your phone grab your friends and you know experiment and go for it. And if I might be a downer, just expect a lot of rejection, expect a lot of heartbreak. It is not easy to be in this industry. We just came from a terrible two-week span of rejections as a team. And it was

Starting point is 00:24:21 very difficult on all of us. But, you know, the way you pick yourself up is you find a new thing to do, whether that is a new script to write, a new project to sink your teeth into, but that's how you overcome it by making more and having more. So, yeah, that's my piece of advice. I think it's a great advice and I was just going to say that I think Casey's a great example that you don't need to study film to become a filmmaker. A great example is a great producer and afar as well. And Teddy is a great writer and producer as well.

Starting point is 00:24:58 also. It's exciting when you find your people. That's another thing. Yes. It's so exciting. Find your people. No one is an ad as well quickly on top of Brunus point as well. It's back yourself. You absolutely got back yourself as well. Just a quick one. If you enjoy our podcast, please give us a review on your favorite podcast app, subscribe or share it with your friends. For more information, visit the show notes. Thank you and back to the show. The piece of advice I would give to anyone who once again in the industry is,

Starting point is 00:25:28 to back yourself, you know, 100% back yourself. I'll give you an example, you know, in the sense that two years ago, I was about to give up on getting into the industry entirely. I've graduated in 2019. There's some odd jobs here and there, and then we're going to COVID, I had a lockdown. I managed to get a gig for like six months for the night towards, you know, continuing for the foreseeable. Then I got cut. You know, they told me they weren't keeping me on. And at that point, I got depressed. I was thinking, you know, what's the point? All that time since I graduated, I've been looking for this next job and to the point where I was going to go become a Deliveroo driver. But then ironically enough, the day before I was due to start, my car broke down.

Starting point is 00:26:07 You know, literally the week I was due to start the job and then at which point a contact reached out to me and said that we've got this thing going on ITV, but you'd have to move to Manchester and I'll be like, yeah, sure, I'll go for it. It's mutual contact of Casey and myself who told me about the job and I was like, you know what, I've got nothing else to lose, I'll go for it. And two interviews later, I ended up being there. You know, and I was going to up and quit, but then I thought, you know what, I'll back myself to go for the job. Same way, I back myself to get this film together, get this incredible team together.

Starting point is 00:26:37 If there's any piece of advice that I would offer is that back yourself 100%. So you could have ended up in a completely different career? Yeah. I also nearly quit and went back to Portugal because I was working for free a lot. And these companies were basically exploiting me. There's been two moments where I nearly quit the industry, and that was the first one, and then the second one was because I absolutely hated the job I was doing and people I was working with. And in both circumstances, it was sort of like, I'm going to quit everything, and then something just magical happens. And it happens because of all the work you've been putting and doing before that moment happens.

Starting point is 00:27:23 So I would say that that's where the success comes in is when you can say, oh, I was at my lowest, but because of all the hard work I put into it, something happened and I was able to return to it. And I think we all have kind of a similar story in that sense. And to me, it's been a few moments like that. And what about you, Jafar? Well, I mean, everyone said, well, I was kind of going to say,

Starting point is 00:27:49 but I do want to have one more. I think if it's not been said already, but kind of like find your own people and make sure that they nurture you and you nurture them because in this industry is just a relationship it's like you become friends with a d that ad will kind of remember you you know said things might happen said things might not happen it's that kind of building that relationship building that network i also want to add that mental health is the biggest bin that you should prioritize if you're not feeling 100% you should speak about it speak about it to your

Starting point is 00:28:23 friends, speak about it to, I think they have mental health advisors and shoots now, when whilst they can. Well-being, sorry, well-being people. You know, when you start out, everyone has that same feeling. It's that I'm not good enough. I'm not supposed to be here. Why am I here? Oh crap, what am I doing? And you'll have that throughout. Yeah, I mean, the Canza London, I felt like that for hell the whole duration of it. Being told to minimal tasks and working at a amount of hours and you kind of have that mindset what am I doing there? Like is this

Starting point is 00:28:57 really the right industry for me kind of thing? Am I supposed to be doing this job? Is this going to be me for like 10 years now? No, it won't. It's okay to have those kind of feelings as long as you acknowledge it and you kind of work past it. Yeah. Can you guys share also advice

Starting point is 00:29:13 how do find work after you finish studying? Because I think that is something that is very difficult and probably quite hard once it happens to actually face such situation. So how did you start looking for work after finished your studies? So I think I was speaking to Casey about this for like a couple of years. Then he introduced me to a company called Film London. And if you don't know film London, they're a charity. They kind of help people. I don't know a charity. I think they're a charity, Casey. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:29:45 I'm not sure. Nonetheless, they help people kind of get employed. The Equal Assets Network is what you're talking about. Yeah, equal access network, sorry. My bad. Yeah, and I guess keep in contact with your friends, most importantly, because some people will, if you're good friends with them, they will pull you up. That's the main thing. And, you know, search for up.

Starting point is 00:30:05 I did a lot of cold emails to so many companies. I think I did it with Dan to London, Pulse Films, and I ended up doing, like, a meeting, and they've been trading. It sounds like a great experience on the TV series. I end off, yeah. You get a credit, you can say that, or it's not true? It's not credited on the TV site, like when you watch the series, it's not credited. But I am credited on TV, I guess.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Well, it's very difficult to get a TV credit nowadays because of streaming. They don't show credits. Oh, yeah, it's true. I would say, like, for me, as a writer-director, if that's what, you know, you're looking for to do in your future, just know that you can't do it straight off the bad, off of school or after high school, like it's very difficult to go straight into doing writing or directing because it is the top position. So I did go through another route in the industry. I did start with development because, you know, I'm very passionate about screenwriting and that was

Starting point is 00:31:09 something I could explore within the industry. However, the development world is extremely toxic and, you know, a lot of the times they ask you to work for free. which is something that I don't agree with and I don't agree with work experience. But that is how I started and that is something that they don't speak about when you go to film school of that path of things. But if you do want to be a producer, for example, development is a great place to start. You just have to make sure that you stand your ground and you don't let people walk over you, even if scripts or whatever. Then after when I left development, I started working as an editor because I enjoy editing and it comes easy for me.

Starting point is 00:31:53 So it's not necessarily what I want to be doing, but currently I do work in social media editing. I work at Warner Brothers and it's a way to be in the industry and it gives me time to in my free time work with these guys on our projects and develop my writing director career. And if there's one thing I learned is there is a way for you to have a full-time job while also working on your personal projects, sometimes it can be very, very, very difficult if you have to pay rent and all of these things.

Starting point is 00:32:25 But I will say like because I kept pushing outside of my full-time job and I kept working towards my goals of writing and directing, that's where I'm the happiest and that's how I've achieved some of the things I've achieved is because even though I'm working full-time, I'm still working part-time on everything else. Yeah, I think it's a great example. that it's still doable, that people cannot use excuses that they don't have enough time. We can see that it is possible. Some people won't.

Starting point is 00:32:55 And I honestly, I've been through a phase in my life where I was doing full-time and freelance work. It was very, very hard to go back and focus on projects like perfidia. My mental health was not in a good place during that time because I wasn't doing anything that I loved. But I need to do it because monetarily, you know, I needed the money. So I will say like there are circumstances where actually you just can't do it. And that's totally understandable. For me, what I did is I left that situation and I made sure that I was going to do what I love to do.

Starting point is 00:33:31 Okay. So my advice for the non-righted directors out there, there is a skill shortage in this industry in the UK. So there are definitely jobs out there, training roles or to do sound, location, AD, production accountants, production managers. The jobs are out there. There are a few places to find them. Jafar earlier mentioned TIG Access Network. Obviously, screens for his website, even though that I find that quite lacking.

Starting point is 00:33:59 There are a few WhatsApp groups out there. There are a few Facebook groups out there for jobs. I wish I could list them off the top of my head, but I can't. Someone put together a complete list of all the different groups and services and mentorships programs and diary services. It's somewhere out there. I'll try and buy the link and hopefully you'll end up in the links of the podcast. Another advice is mind mentors and if you're just coming out of school, I mean, go make something. The summer between you leaving and the new school yourself, where are the kit? Go shoot some things. Just to say that I've got some more experience

Starting point is 00:34:39 It's making things. I want to add one more. I think there are a few more agencies out there. Creative Sparkworks, that's one of them. That's one of the agencies I was with. I learned so much from them, mentorship schemes. Media trust. Yeah, media trust as well.

Starting point is 00:34:55 And, like, I think we've created Sparkworks. They take you to Sony's headquarters, London, and you can kind of, like, meet the team, meet development, so much stuff. But, like, most important thing as well, up still. always up still. I know people say, oh, it doesn't matter, this, this and that.

Starting point is 00:35:12 Do you know how many forces I do each year? I do a couple VFX forces each year, and I don't really want to go into VFX as such, but it's an important skill to have. You never know when you might need it. You never know what might happen. You might change industries. You might change a different pathway.

Starting point is 00:35:28 And definitely helps you to stand out. Yeah. Absolutely. And can you say, are there like specific maybe website or place where you do those courses? Screamer skills had one recently with Pearson College and Pearson College being one of the leading V-FET colleges, I guess, I'll say. They had an amazing one which was to do with Unreal Engine 5, learning the mechanics behind it, learning how to do stuff.

Starting point is 00:35:53 There's so many other colleges out there. I think university online, online university, I think they have short courses that you can do, you know, you can search up local colleges, local universities. they all do short courses. It doesn't have to be necessarily you take out a degree, you pile up that loan. You can kind of throw in there for like a couple of days or however long courses. I did my one during the peak of COVID,

Starting point is 00:36:18 I think four or five days. I had COVID at the time as well while I was studying. So it was a bit of a great use of time that you don't have any excuses that industry shut down and there was a COVID. I was supposed to be working during back. There were so many jobs we missed out on during COVID pandemic. It's crazy.

Starting point is 00:36:35 Some of the biggest things that came out. By Richie. For a zombie. Another one is Mama Youth. That's a free one, I believe. Don't tell anybody I said this, but I think they're the best place to go because you get an entire year in industry off your training. Six to eight weeks training.

Starting point is 00:36:54 Why didn't I know about this when I graduated? In terms of film schools, I think there is a lack of understanding that it's not just about set jobs. and I think that's what film schools focus the most of. One thing that I would also add is, if you want to be a screenwriter specifically, write scripts, try some competitions and some festivals. There are some free ones out there,

Starting point is 00:37:17 and there are mentorships out there for you, which could lead you to great things. To mix both work and training, ITV has like an apprenticeship scheme that's come out, ITV. Academy? I know that Waterbrows, and I think Sky, Sky also have like a traineeship thing like there's shadowing programs for like directors

Starting point is 00:37:39 cinematographers and I know one of us got some sort of writing program I don't remember what it is but like all the big broadcasters have to have some sort of training thing for like new entrance so it will be very goodfetched because everybody's going to go up very often but those things are there if you if you aren't aware there is a lot out there I would personally say there's still not enough that's still not even to mention the Facebook groups on there as well you've got the runners Facebook groups. I saw a location's Facebook group as well. I think going back to what I think it was Casey, I think you mentioned it earlier. Like there, you know, there's more than one way in. It's just a matter of finding the door that allows you to get in there. So, Teddy, do want to

Starting point is 00:38:17 elaborate on yours because we spoke about each and mistube? Yeah. As I mentioned before, like, there was a point I was thinking of leaving the industry entirely before. I found the current job that I met now, which is fun enough working in locations for Coronation Street. And it's, Essentially, that job has been a blessing. And I think I mentioned at the start of the podcast as well, that I want to get into more the rhyme producing space and what this new job has allowed me to do is sort of see both sides of it. You know, sort of giving me sort of like a bird's eye view of it all.

Starting point is 00:38:50 Not only sort of the writing side of it, because as part of the occasions, we got to read the scripts as well. And as well as seeing the more technical side of filmmaking. Like, you know, that's being in this job, It's enabled me to learn so much more, you know, build up my network, you know, as well it goes back to the importance of networking and getting to know people as well. Just being in that role has enabled me to learn so much more than while I was still looking. And to add one more from Muslims out there, there is pillars, ones that's there for, I believe, writing and directing. They have a massive committee based in the US, based on the UK.

Starting point is 00:39:30 I think with you, day is Riz Ahmed, I think with US, Maharsha Ali? Yeah. You know, we're kind of like slowly creeping up where Muslims and Asians are kind of being included in this conversation. And not as like random terrorist number four. Yeah. You know, I'm kind of getting sick of it where, oh, look, my people were terrorists. Well, okay. It's kind of like it needs to change.

Starting point is 00:39:55 Negative generalizations. I'm just going to add, if you are currently, in film school. Keep making stuff on your weekends. That's a very privileged place to be, to just be studying what you love. So on weekends with your friends, you have a full class. Just go out with them and make stuff and go on websites like Film Freeway, find free film festivals to enter and get your stuff out there and get yourself a name. And also get yourself involved in as many projects as you can. If there's a specific area of the industry that you like to work on, then tell all your director friends, hey, I,

Starting point is 00:40:30 want a script supervise your film and they will be very very thankful that you're offering to do something that maybe not everyone wants to do so just go out and put yourself out there which is something i wish i had done i wish i had done more while it was a film school so i have to say that i feel the same and i think what you said is great advice because you can take advantage of the equipment that you've got software people and the passion to make films so we should definitely do that and And I should have done that more as well. So good advice. And if you ever have an opportunity that comes up to make something, take it, take it with both

Starting point is 00:41:08 hands. Because normally it's like you're adding more experience. You're also proving to yourself that you can do it, that you are capable as well. So if you ever have an opportunity to make something, like take it, grab it and put it out there. Try to as many people as you can as well. I made a short called Interior Madness. Well, it stylizes I-N-T madness.

Starting point is 00:41:29 the title of itself is kind of a double entendre. This was during COVID and I was just sat on my house bored one day, saw my camera and I was like, you know, I could do something with this. One shot turned to another shot and then it kind of just turned into something else. And in doing that, I proved to myself that I could do it. Not only that I'm not capable of doing it, but also it's showing everyone else that I'm capable of making something like that. I mean, it was on a 1300D, but it's still something. thing. And I was curious, I wanted to ask before, why is the short film called, what it is called?

Starting point is 00:42:07 Were you madness or perfidia? Both. I was about to ask about profedia, but interior madness. The tire of itself is a double entendre. Because in screenwriting, you know, you have the scene heading at the top, which starts with INC or EXT, interior exterior. So interior, yeah, and then madness. So like, it's the interior of madness inside your head of writing. you know, as well as the interior of madness of being stuck in a room. You know, bearing in mind, I made that during COVID. So it's kind of like a double meaning behind it. And not only that, it was also a film sort of about writers' block. It's like from Christopher Nolan.

Starting point is 00:42:43 And what about the other one? Yeah, but Phiddy, on the other hand, it wasn't my idea. Funnily enough, it was actually Liam, who came up with that title. It's from the Spanish word of Fidi, which in itself means treachery or betrayal. or something along those lines. Well, the Spanish word is perfidia, and the English translation is perfidy. Both mean the trail,

Starting point is 00:43:06 which is kind of what the film's about. There's some sense of betrayal. There's a sense of betrayal involved in there as well, and it's also the name of a song from the 70s, which sort of ended up being sort of like the theme song of it. Like, I know at that and look me, he said, you know, I heard that song the other day, and he was saying that, you know,

Starting point is 00:43:24 it kind of reminded me of one of the characters a little bit, and it kind of just ran with it ultimately. And I will say on the topic of just go and make stuff like what Teddy just did with Interior Madness, Casey and I and my DOP, we did a short film for the platform TikTok and it's currently at over one million views and it was literally a two-hour shoot with our friends and a camera.

Starting point is 00:43:50 So you just never know what could come out of just a spontaneous thing that you do with your friends on an afternoon How long was it the one on TikTok? Around three minutes. It ended up being shortlisted for the TikTok short film competition. We didn't win, but that's all right. All of the comments are incredible. And it was great to have a sort of audience reaction like that to something that we've done.

Starting point is 00:44:15 And yeah, like I said, it was two, three hour shoot maybe. Because I don't use TikTok so I don't even know that competitions like this. But I can imagine it can really help because of TikTok's. algorithm that you may get a lot of views? It's a great platform for artists, I think, because it's a lot easier to get yourself out there than in other social media platforms. And it's a great thing. TikTok does do initiatives like that.

Starting point is 00:44:42 But also, there are many filmmakers on TikTok making films. And I was making films beforehand. And then I did this one, which ultimately blew up and went viral. So, yeah, you just never know. Yeah. Are you actually still polishing the film, maybe editing or something? Or is it completely done and it's just going to festilles? Perfidia.

Starting point is 00:45:03 Yes. Yes. Perfidia is wrapped, completely wrapped. We finished it. We are just sort of now getting ready. Some final things, like an online screener for our backers from our crowd funder, for example. Just like those final things that we now can take our time to do. But in terms of post-production and everything else, it's all done.

Starting point is 00:45:25 So we're just waiting. We're sitting. Well, we're not sitting. We're doing other projects, but we're waiting on, well, Profidio will do next. So with film being finished now, what are some things that you wish you could have done differently or maybe better if there are such things? Well, for me as a director, as the director of the film, I'm really proud of what we done for one reason, which is we didn't have any money and we barely had any resources. So what we've done I'm really proud of. I do wish, I mean, we try to be very inclusive with our crew and cast. I wish we could have pushed a bit more if it wasn't for a time and money to sort of get more people involved from different backgrounds, especially disabled people or people from lower income backgrounds, for example.

Starting point is 00:46:15 Would you like to give from the data? The data. We did manage to have a 60% female crew across all production, and we had 40% non-white filmmakers working on it. We always strive to improve this, essentially. And we want to make more and we want to bring more people. In terms of the film itself, you know, given the money and resources, I'm really proud of it. There's not anything, maybe specific things that, you know, would spoil it and I would have to go into detail.

Starting point is 00:46:47 And nobody else notices but me. I'm the only person who will notice minor flaw. Man, literally on the right, wasn't really. Right. Exactly. Stuff like that. But other than that... Perfectionist.

Starting point is 00:46:58 I'm really proud of it and I'm really happy with everything. I think for me, it's just literally like there were two things that we fixed in post. The well-known phrase will fix in it post has said that so many times. Sometimes it is what it is. You know what I mean? Here's the truth. 98% of what we shove for portfolio, we fact and planned for. And it was exactly as we wanted it to be.

Starting point is 00:47:25 I guess it was great pre-production and great planning. Oh, yeah. Not only that, we just had an amazing director, Bruno, for instance. We had an amazing TOP. We had an amazing T. Honestly, we would have been able to do what we did without that team, about that kind of finance. You know, it was a short shoot, I think two days, three days, max.

Starting point is 00:47:49 And, you know, with that amount of fruit, It would have happened. Yeah, it sounds that you planned it really well, so. I will say, like, what Jafar said, when your crew becomes your family, then you know that it's going to turn out well. And I think we had such a lovely environment on set. It wasn't, like, stressful. No one was pulling hairs. Oh, my God, we have to go.

Starting point is 00:48:10 But at the end of the two-day shoot, we were all sad about leaving. And that's when you know you're going to have a great film because everyone's so invested in it as much as we were as the main team. but I guess you will work together or something again I mean she'll probably work on the TV series again so before we finish do you guys want to promote yourself where people can follow you or your work if you want to follow me I'm at Filmbruna on Instagram and TikTok and yeah I'll post some fun stuff here and there

Starting point is 00:48:41 yeah if you guys want to follow me I'm I'm T3D R Jaguna that's NJUGUNA on Instagram I do post on my must stuff on there and I do post the occasional rant about football, about movies every now and there as well. So if that is something that'll entertain you, then drop me a follow and, you know, come say hi. Or follow, you know, 3-2 official on this square. Follow the official 3-2 productions, Insta as well. That's at 3-2 official. I will make sure to edit to show notes.

Starting point is 00:49:11 And Casey and Jeff are, what about you? Do you want people to follow as well? I'm a producer so I lurk in the shadows. Maybe someone wants to become a producer, so never know. message of three to Instagram or Twitter and I will take that cheap. I really mess around on social media as much. But I guess if people do want to do in contact with me, I'm on Instagram neutral for life.

Starting point is 00:49:34 That is my handle address. Or you could email us. That would also be better, to be fair. InfoWet 3-2 productions. Yeah, I would guys get in touch, get the links and edit everything to show notes so that people can follow it. And once the film is out, once it's available.

Starting point is 00:49:52 Please share it with me. I will also try to promote it if I can, like on website or something and show notes as well. Thank you so much, guys, for being here. And it was a pleasure to talk to all. Thank you for having us. Nice for having. I wanted to add one more thing. I do want to say, don't be afraid to make mistakes.

Starting point is 00:50:11 That's the most important rule. Because if you don't make mistakes, you'll never learn. You'll never grind. They'll never, you know, fill that accomplishment, I guess. And if someone disrespects you in this industry, it is not your fault. It is theirs. If you make a mistake, it is human and there's no excuse for you to be yelled at or treat it less than. So just know that it is not your fault.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Next time I'll tell you when a Gaffer, start yelling at me for a thing. And also, follow Bruno. She's amazing. I second that point. Follow Bruno. She's great. Guys, I really thank you. I enjoyed it. It was a pleasure to meet you all. And fingers crossed with your short film.

Starting point is 00:50:49 Thank you. Thank you very much. So I think we can finish it for today. And thank you and we'll speak to you soon. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to Produce By. Subscribe to our podcast and your favorite podcast that leave a review or send us your feedback. For more information about the host, links from the episode and ways to connect with us, visit the show notes.

Starting point is 00:51:15 If you know someone who would be an ideal guest for our podcast, please get in touch. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - #SPECIAL - Jafar, KC, Teddy and Bruna: Team Behind a Short Film Perfidia

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