Produced By - The Grappler’s Blueprint: Build Strength, Avoid Injuries, and Dominate | #73: Kieren Lefevre

Starting point is 00:00:00 The three pillars of recovery is we've already touched on one, nutrition. The next is training intensity. And the third and most important, which I normally start with, sleep. Sleep is the most important aspect of recovery. Now, in terms of what I recommend, in an ideal world, we're all getting seven to nine hours of sleep opportunity per night. Not to be confused with actual sleep. So sleep opportunity means you're in bed for seven to nine hours.

Starting point is 00:00:26 Because if you're in bed for seven hours, you're probably getting around six hours of sleep because we don't sleep all the way through. So we need to account for that. So seven to nine hours of sleep opportunity per night is ideal. If you're in bed for nine hours, you're probably getting about eight hours of sleep, unless you sleep like a unicorn and you're perfect, which I haven't come across them yet. Next that I mentioned is training intensity. Now, I already alluded to it in the beginning, but when I first started training jiu-jitsu,

Starting point is 00:00:53 I was on the mats like 10 plus times per week doing 10 plus sessions rather. Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you. Hi, Kieran. Thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Tom and thanks for having me. So Kieran, can you please introduce yourself?

Starting point is 00:01:18 Yeah, so my name is Kieran Lefev. I'm a Jiu-Jitsu Purple Belt and I run the Kieran Lefev Jiu-Jitsu YouTube channel a bit of a content creator and most importantly a BJJ strength and conditioning performance coach. And Kieran, where are you based actually? Yeah, so I'm down here in Sydney, Australia, probably tell by the accent. So I guess this is the question that is very unexpected, but can you tell us how did you actually start with Jiu Jitsu? Yeah, so my Jiu Jitsu journey is an interesting one. I wanted to get into Jiu Jitsu in around 2017, I want to say, when I was actually serving in the Australian Navy.

Starting point is 00:02:02 Me and a couple of my colleagues at the time, my friends, we went into a Gracie Baja in Sydney and just did a trial class just to see what it was about. And I loved it so much after that trial class that I did a second trial class. And for whatever reason, I just didn't sign up. I think it was a little bit of posting situation because being in the Navy, you know, I wasn't sure where I was going to end up and we'll still. training so we're being posted all around Australia to complete our training and yeah so for whatever reason didn't didn't join it but it was always in the back of my mind for years after it that i

Starting point is 00:02:37 i still want to pursue jiu jitsu something that i instantly resonated with was hooked to and then it wasn't until fast forward a few years a close friend of mine zach he was listening to the joe rogan podcast and i was telling me hey man you got you got to you got to get into jihitsu listen to joe rogan all this stuff. So we got into that way, you know, me a little bit after him. And he said to me, oh, man, I've booked in a trial at, you know, my local jiu-jitsu club, because we lived a little bit away from each other. And he's like, yeah, I booked in a trial for next week. And I'm like, okay, I've got a one-up him. I booked in a trial for tomorrow. So I did another trial in. Luckily, I lived walking distance to a jihitsu academy. You know, it always run past and, you know,

Starting point is 00:03:22 poke my head in and see what's going on. And after I did that second trial class, years later, I was hooked. And it was like 10 plus times a week. I was there all the time. Just they couldn't get rid of me and best since then. So after I left the Navy, more or less pursued Jiu-Jitsu as a career. And was it more Jiu-Jitsu or a grappling, like a Ghi or no-Gi? So it was Ghi and no-Ghi.

Starting point is 00:03:48 Initially, when I started training Jiu-Jitsu, I had the idea. was my plan, my grand scheme, Tom and it was get my blue belt and then transition into MMA. But I never ended up doing that. I don't know. I just, after training for, you know, a few months, I was like, nah, screw this. Like, Jiu-Jitsu is everything. The Jiu-Sit is the way. I prefer to hear that that you stayed. That you stay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh, you know, I'll just get the basics and start with grappling and then, and then move on to the MMA. But no, I stay true, like pure jiu-jitsu. And do you like in the future to still try or transition to MMA?

Starting point is 00:04:30 Look, I think that learning striking is important. It's on YouTube, actually, my first ever MMA sparring match. You may have seen it, maybe. If you follow Jordan teaches jiu-jitsu. So for those that trade jiu-jitsu, Jordan teaches jiu-jitsu, very popular YouTuber. And yeah, so I went over to Canada to help. produce his jiu-jitsu theory course and in that time we filmed some content and one of them was sparring in m-ma and i'd never even put on m-ma gloves on before and i'm spiring with jordan for the first

Starting point is 00:05:04 time it was it was wild he kicked my ass i'd no idea what i was doing and i was just ducked my hand and swing in and he really looked after me don't worry like he didn't beat me up too badly but the the worst part about it is that video is recycled every time m m m ms mentioned like in his back story. Someone's doing like a piece on him or whatever. And striking comes up. They always use the clip of him smashing me. Like we're going off on a tangent now, but he recently was featured in a self-defense championship series on YouTube. If you haven't seen that, it's fantastic. It's Australian-based, but they get guys from all around the world. And yeah, they mentioned striking in that clip. And then they showed the clip of him, like, punched him in the head. So it's so funny. I make it

Starting point is 00:05:51 cameo in all sorts of stuff. But yeah, that's my only experience with MMA. I can imagine. Not going to lie, I haven't tried MMA yet, but I would end up the same way or maybe even worse than it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And actually, before we dive more into it, for the audience that isn't familiar with a jiu-jitsu or grappling,

Starting point is 00:06:15 can you introduce these two sports and what's the difference between these two? Well, I'd say that in terms of, of Jiu-Jitsu, it's referring to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. So ground-based sport, grappling-based sport that encompasses no-gi and ghee. However, when we're talking about grappling, or at least when I'm referring to grappling, it's more leaning toward the no-gee scene. So we're talking about, you know, no-gee grappling or submission grappling. So it's wrestling, it's catch wrestling. It's a little bit more encompassing. However, you could still consider, you could still refer to judo as a grappling sport as well. So grappling is a more all-encompassing term to define the sport, whereas

Starting point is 00:07:00 Brazilian jiu-jitsu is specifically talking about Brazilian jiu-jitsu. So freestyle wrestling would be considered grappling or submission wrestling would be considered grappling. But yeah, and jiu-jitsu is considered grappling. That's in my vernacular anyway, how I sort of phrase it. Yeah. And, we discussed these two sports at MMA but have you got any experience with any other martial arts? No, no. So, Jiu-Jitsu was my first martial art and

Starting point is 00:07:28 I mean, I've done a little bit of wrestling like wrestling classes and, you know, I've been shown a couple things by a judoka here and there, but it's all under the lens and through the looking glass, if you will, of Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah. So then throughout your Jiu-Jitsu career,

Starting point is 00:07:44 when did you actually decide or what was the moment, when you decided that it's not a hobby anymore, but it's like your career. Man, it was pretty early on. I would say once I got my Blue Belt, a typical fashion, you know, it's a meme. When the most people quit. Yeah, well, it's so funny. It's like either you quit at Blue Belt or you start a company around Jiu-Jitsu.

Starting point is 00:08:06 You know what I mean? I've seen so many blue belts. And this is not a rip of like you're in this boat, but I've seen so many blue belts start like a a Jiu-Jitsu apparel company. As soon as they get their blue belt, they partner up with a frame in the gym and they, you know, one's the designer, one's the marketer or whatever. I've seen it. Literally, I've seen it like four or five times in different gyms all around the world. Like just from like people I know, it's, you know, all the power to them. Like, I'm not disparaging anyone starting a business. It's just funny.

Starting point is 00:08:32 Yeah, to answer your question directly, probably around like that blue belt level. So pretty early on, man, I was like, I was obsessed. Like, you know, you talk about getting, at least in the jihitsu world, people talk about getting the bug or getting bitten by the jiu jihitsu bug. Basically, it's very common that when someone starts Jiu-Jitsu, they just get super obsessed and that's all they do. But, I mean, I got bitten really badly, I suppose you could say. And it just never went away. And yeah, I just pivoted. Yeah, it's great to hear and hope it will stay the enthusiasm.

Starting point is 00:09:04 And actually, I haven't asked you, have you got preference, Jiu-Jitsu or Nogi? Nogi, yeah, Nogi, definitely. Why is that? well i throughout like the the whole time i've been training i've gone back and forward between like oh you know the ghi uh jih jitsu and no ghi and you know but at the moment i think that the future or not even the future the now the present is the the nogi wave no gee i think is there's more i wouldn't say it's more technical i just prefer the techniques in no gey for example uh all the guard players out there would, you know, probably agree with this, that guard in ghee versus no

Starting point is 00:09:45 ghee is completely different. And that is because of leg locks. Yes, there are leg locks in ghee, but because you can't knee reap in ghee, it just changes everything. And I, you know, I'm not a leg locker per se, but I'm a big fan of leg locking. I also say that stand-up is completely different. It's literally more judoka style or, you know, more or less, like, Judoka style versus a wrestling style. So the stances are different. The techniques are obviously different, not having the gear grips. So I much prefer wrestling over judo.

Starting point is 00:10:21 And yeah, I just don't. I'm more athletic. And, you know, that's part of my branding. That's part of like what I teach people is how to become more explosive, more powerful, more athletic. And you can really express those physical attributes to a much greater degree and to have more devastating effect on the mats. in no gey because it's less friction it's easier to to be more explosive and more or less people

Starting point is 00:10:48 that aren't as physical as you can't slow you down with your with their gear grips so yeah yeah yeah great points and i agree with you and i would say that no gee i find it maybe more exciting to watch because with all those leg locks and leg attacks yeah i just find it impressive how how fast it is how they roll and everything. I'm always like, oh my God, this is so scary. For example, recently, I'm sure that you watched when there was CGI and ADCC at the same time. Of course. It was just, you know, like a holiday for us. Yeah, it was wild.

Starting point is 00:11:24 I had like, at one point I had four screens. I had like two monitors, all the split screens going and watching this one on mute, watching that one. And yeah. Yeah. And how did you actually see CJA? Because by Craig Jones, who is originally from Australia as well. And Levi is from Australia as well. So how did you see it?

Starting point is 00:11:44 I loved C.J.I. I thought it was absolutely fantastic. The standout performance for me for the entire CJI was definitely Levi Jones-Liery. I'm biased as hell. I'm Australian. I met Levi. I've rolled with Levi. I interviewed Levi.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. I know Levi. Not like super well, but I would say that I know him and I consider him a friend. So I'm biased. but I think that Levi definitely won, in my opinion, the finals and beat Ritolo, but that's a debate for another day.

Starting point is 00:12:20 But I thought it was fantastic from the over 80 kilo division to the under 80 kilo, the marketing push behind it, the spectacle, I loved the pit. And this is maybe over the heads of people that haven't seen CJ, I don't know what we're talking about, but the combat karate style pit that they use or the alley as they were. referred to it was absolutely fantastic. We saw some interesting jiu-jitsu from it, absolute wild scrap between Tackett and Ritolo. That was, we'll go down in history, is the greatest grappling match of all time. And yeah, so absolutely blown away by CGI. Don't give you wrong. There was some awesome performances in ADCC as well, because, you know,

Starting point is 00:12:57 we're always going to be comparing and contrasting. But I don't see it as a this, all that. I see it as, you know, CJI and ADCC. But if I had to say, you know, which event performed the best, by far CJI Blue ADCC out of the water I have to agree and I think Craig Jones is marketing genius With everything he's done before All the post podcast appearances

Starting point is 00:13:19 His social media presence He's just master And I would recommend it Actually anyone who is not interested In Jiuji's or doesn't do that Still try to watch it because Just very engaging and great watch Oh yeah

Starting point is 00:13:33 Yeah Then I'd be curious Then throughout your Jujis or Nogi career, what are any challenges or injuries or obstacle that you faced? And if so, how did you get through? Yeah, so I have had a few injuries. I've come off pretty light in comparison. For someone that has trained as much as I have and for as long, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:55 you would expect something, but I have been lucky, no surgeries, knock on wood. But I have had a partial LCL. Yeah, yeah. I have had a partial LCL tear last year, which, was not great. That was when I was living in Sweden. And it was completely my own fault, just a freak, you know, not even my own fault. Just a freak accident.

Starting point is 00:14:17 No, it wasn't even a submission. I was in guard and I was going for what's called the Choi Bar. So it's a specific entry where you're framing away your opponent's head with your shin and your leg kind of circles around their shoulder and attacks and belly down arm bar. And as I went to rotate like a windscreen wiper, egg, beta rotation of my leg. It just popped and the partial tear was there, which just happened. I still do Choi bars. It's one of my favorite entries, but it hasn't disparaged me and I still do it on the same leg that I popped. So, you know, it is what it is. I did the, I went to, you know, the surgeons, got the MRIs and did my own, did my own rehab. And yeah, it was a few weeks or

Starting point is 00:15:00 like six to eight weeks, I think, off the mat. Fortunately, not something too serious. No, not too serious. I mean, I've rolled ankles. I've. I've rolled ankles. I've sprained my ankles, you know, I've had issues with like fingers and, you know, um, shoulders and just nickels here in elbows, not tapping early as a white belt. Yeah, so I've had those sort of niggles that, which, you know, happens. But I think the LCL was the biggest one. And what about some, you know, sometimes you feel like more motivated, sometimes you're less motivated.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Did you feel this? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like motivation comes and goes. There was a period of time where I was, luckily, I was sponsored by my gym, my coach who I also do a podcast or did a podcast with Adam Charles. He sponsored me, you know, and we had an agreement that I would have to attend a minimum of six classes per week. And in return, I get, you know, the free membership, competition, support, all that sort of stuff, and I represent the gym. So the reason I bring this up is luckily,

Starting point is 00:15:59 regardless of motivation, I had a obligation to show up because it was an agreement that I made. And that was my end of the fulfilling the agreement we had. So regardless of whether I felt like training or not, I had to hit those six sessions. Obviously, I don't have those. Well, not obviously, but I don't have that anymore. It's harder now to ensure that I get my minimum or my personal minimum standard of training in because there's no one there, you know, over my head. There's no one there checking me.

Starting point is 00:16:28 So, yeah, motivation comes and goes for sure, for sure. But regardless, I think that if you take, if you take, you're really into jiu-jitsu and you take a week or even a two-week period off and you don't start getting that like oh i want to get back on the mats then you know we're just in a different boat so after two weeks i'm like okay i'm like really want to go train so yeah that's never a problem i agree because i just had a as we are recording now i had a week break and it was very helpful like to recover the body maybe to get motivated again and once i'm back i feel really excited so it's great sure and you said a number of sessions per week so what is your number of number of sessions per week now

Starting point is 00:17:09 or yeah so my my personal minimum standard is three per week to normally i prefer to be operating four to six to these days when i first started jiu jitsu i was like 12 10 12 a week plus but that's not sustainable yeah it's so many so many it's uh it's not sustainable it's not sustainable particularly if you are interested in reducing your risk of injury and lifting weights, which you should be if you're training jiu-sitsu. So it's really not sustainable to be getting in your dedicated strength and conditioning work to improve your longevity on the mats and reduce your risk of injury on the mats and still perform on the mat.

Starting point is 00:17:50 So it's kind of like you can't have your cake and eat at two in that sense. But, you know, this problem is not many people have this specific problem. So for me, at the moment, minimum three jiu-jitsu per week, optimally, or maximum, we could say, six. And then for strength and conditioning, I'm lifting a minimum of two times per week, but most weeks, it's three. So minimum is two, but I hit three.

Starting point is 00:18:12 So it's three and three or three and six. Yep. And in a gym, are you as a student or are you also a coach in a gym? I'm doing both. If you asked me this question about two months ago, I was pretty much exclusively coaching. So I was teaching, I think three plus or four. four or five even classes per week at one point in i was doing a bunch of private lessons on top of

Starting point is 00:18:37 that so yeah both at the moment is that is that something you enjoy coaching or is it because you have to no no definitely enjoy coaching yeah i really enjoyed coaching so from like a a pure teaching and education or or coaching perspective i have a lot of experience being a personal trainer is a coach but also when I was in the Navy for the final two years of my time in the Navy, I was an instructor. And during that period, I was a navigating officer. And my role was to teach the junior officers coming up. And I taught them how to drive ships and navigate a ship essentially. Oh, that sounds impressive.

Starting point is 00:19:20 It's probably cool that it sounds cool than it is. No, it actually is pretty fucking cool, to be honest. Um, anyway, so yeah, I would teach them, you know, navigation principles, pilotage, like, uh, tight navigating in and out of harbors and that sort of thing in, in the Navy. So through my years of experience in a teaching role in a young junior offices, I went through, uh, instructors courses and, you know, did a whole bunch of stuff and a lot of hands-on experience in high pressure situations. So in comparison, teaching jiu-jitsu on the mats to, uh, did a whole bunch of stuff and a lot of hands-on experience in high-pressure situations. So in comparison, teaching Jiu-Jitsu on the mats to a bunch of people that are super keen,

Starting point is 00:19:57 motivated to be there and pretty much frothing on the experience of training Jiu-Jitsu, it's very natural, I'd say, for me, luckily. But I find it really impressive and admirable when there is a coach that explains stuff well and it's engaging because, of course, tried multiple different coaches and everyone is different. And also, Although I'm not a coach, I don't have experience, but I was trying to teach someone, you know, for example, someone less experienced. That's when you appreciate when there is someone who knows how to explain it,

Starting point is 00:20:31 because it may sound easy because I know the technique, I know how to explain it. But when it comes actually to the explanation, it's not that easy as it seems. So it's very admirable when there is someone who knows how to do that and in an engaging and I would say helpful way. So well done. I would say.

Starting point is 00:20:50 Thanks. And what's your preparation when it comes to the coaching? Do you do, let's say, a lot of research or do you know all the technique in your head already? Yeah, that's a great question. So there is a lot of different philosophies around coaching. I was very lucky, or I am very lucky, I should say that my coach, Adam Childs, is a black belt under Fabio Gugel, who you don't know Fabio's lineage. He is a very reputable black belt coach and the head of Alliance.

Starting point is 00:21:22 So the two largest teams or jiu-jitsu organizations in the world are Gracie Baja and Alliance, both out of Brazil. And yeah, so Adam's lineage comes directly from Fabio, the first Australian black belt from Fabio. So, you know, not that I'm a traditionalist and I think lineage doesn't really matter, to be honest, but it's still, what I'm trying to paint the picture is his level of coaching is incredibly high. So I learned directly from him. I was also fortunate enough to, you know, be taken under his wing, so to speak. I have literally hundreds and hundreds of hours podcasting with him on jiu-jitsu topics. So learning from discussing topics with him and his coaching philosophy, that has helped a lot.

Starting point is 00:22:05 On top of that, I've also done a instructor's course taught by Adam specifically for jiu-sruction. So all of like my background experiences has helped significantly. In terms of preparation directly, I think for me, I do it a little bit differently from Adam. I've learned a lot from him, but I don't emulate him directly in terms of Adam's style of coaching and his philosophy is he will have a broad sense of what has been covered when and he will teach different techniques from different areas. For example, one class you may be doing a half guard pass. the next class, we may do some stand-up, like a takedown, or we may do guard retention tactics, or we may do, I don't know, a submission from back control. So it's changing things up because that's how he likes to operate because it keeps things fresh.

Starting point is 00:22:57 But he knows as a general sense that he's covered all the key areas across all the three main classes, being the morning, the lunch, and the evening classes. However, my approach is a little bit different. I prefer to stay within a topic. I'm not saying that I like to do the same thing over and over again, but I'll pick a topic for a series of weeks or days or whatever the schedule is. For example, I may choose half guard specifically. And I say, okay, so we're going to start with halfguard basics,

Starting point is 00:23:28 then we're going to build upon it. We're going to look at different options, different sweeping options, submission options, etc. I'll wrestle up whatever, whatever from, and it branches out as like a network from halfguard. That way, whenever you're coming into the, If you come to my classes consistently, you'll build a repertoire from halfguard. Or if you just drop in for one, you're at least going to learn something.

Starting point is 00:23:48 You're not going to be completely lost. So that's how I like to do it. Another thing that I really like to do, and I did this fairly recently, but, yeah, I thought was very effective. And that is after a major competition, we're just talking about CJA, for example. After a major competition, perhaps a good example is ADCC trials, 2024, the second Oceanana trials, specifically Oceania, watched all of it from start to finish. And during that, when I was watching, I was watching with intention of looking at trends.

Starting point is 00:24:19 So specifically, I was looking at what was effective, what was working really well. But most importantly, I was looking at where people were getting stuck or where people, what I deemed to be the common areas of fault among the best competitors. And these guys, you know, would smash me. I'm not bagging on anyone. I'm simply, you know, making notice of trends. And then would research the counter to what people were getting stuck with or what the common themes were and then teach that to my students.

Starting point is 00:24:52 That way we can learn from the very, very best guys and try to level up jiu-jitsu across the board. Because that's what these competitions are meant to do. The best guys are meant to elevate the sport. But the onus is still on the coaches at the ground level, it in the trenches to ensure that knowledge is passed on. So a very practical example of this is Levi-Jones-Lerie had a absolute tear of a run through 24 Oceania ADCC trials and his body triangle was incredibly effective. A fault of his, you know, is it a fault of his competitors or is Levi just really good?

Starting point is 00:25:32 But either way, people were getting stuck in body triangles, right? So I went away and researched the best body triangle escapes. I implemented them in sparring and then I taught body triangle escapes for about a week, all the different variations. And that was incredibly effective. Yeah, I love the approach.

Starting point is 00:25:52 It sounds amazing because our coach, he does something similar that sometimes he teaches us something and he says that it's something that is trendy now, that it's popular, that it's what people use. And I really like this approach because nothing against traditionally jujitsu, but I like this,

Starting point is 00:26:09 because then, for example, when you go to the competition, you are not surprised, or maybe you are actually the one who can surprise other people. So I think that's something maybe that should be adopted more, or just my opinion. Yeah, I agree. And you mentioned competitions before when talking about those promotions and sponsorship. So what is your experience with competitions? Are you active competitor, or did you compete before?

Starting point is 00:26:35 At White and Blue Belt, I competed quite a lot, I think. I mean, off the top of my head, I don't know how many competitions, but it would be close to about 20. So not as many as some, but like, I was just about to say it's quite a lot. Yeah, I mean, it's over a little bit of time, but I was competing. There was a period that I was very active. I was competing every, not every weekend, but like at least once a month. And again, that was part of my sponsor agreement with my gym is competing. I had to compete, right? But that was really good. And yeah, I learned a lot. from competing.

Starting point is 00:27:09 Absolutely. I definitely recommend. I get this again from my coach. And when I am in the position to be, you know, awarding belts, I think that having at least one competition per belt is the minimum, in my opinion. Yeah. And I think that is something, or at least from my experience, something I would say challenging or something that everyone faces is the stress before the competition.

Starting point is 00:27:34 Yes. I assume that you experienced it as well, at least in the beginning. So how did you face it or how did you manage to overcome it? To be honest, Tom and I haven't overcome it yet. I still get incredibly nervous before competing. I did get to the stage where it was the edge was taken off a little bit, but I would still get nervous. Now, this is only for the first match. After the first match, the nerves go away.

Starting point is 00:28:03 I don't know about your experience, but in my experience, after I have my first match of the day, more or less, I'm no longer nervous, although it's nowhere near the same magnitude. Maybe like in before the finals, I might get a little bit, you know, a little bit of butterflies and whatever, but I'm focused on the job. And you get to the point where you just don't care anymore. Like, there was one competition where I signed up for all four divisions. So, Gie and no Gie, I wait and absolute. But everything in the same day. Yeah, yeah, in the same day. Yeah. Unfortunately, I missed the first one. So I missed my ghee weight.

Starting point is 00:28:38 It was my poor planning plus expected traffic jam due to an accident. I was like 20 minutes later, I missed it. So I lost my first match by a walkover. But the next three divisions, I was really successful that day and I won all three. But it equated in something like, yeah. But the point is, it equated in something like 10 matches in that day. So after the first one, the other nine, I was no longer nervous. I didn't care.

Starting point is 00:29:05 Like it didn't matter. particularly the last one, like the last few, I just wanted to go home. I was tired. I didn't give a shit. So I think the moral of the story there is if you remove yourself from the outcome and you focus on your input, you just say, hey, I can't control the result of this match. I can only control my effort or what I'm doing in the match. That's all. That's all.

Starting point is 00:29:27 The variable I can control. So what's out of my control, just, you know, don't worry about it. It's so easy to say, very hard to do. I still haven't mastered the art of not being nervous before my first match of the day, though. No, I think it's a great advice. And what maybe helped me was to think that other competitors are going through the same, or it's likely that most of them are going through the same. Of course, if there's someone who's been competing all the time, it's probably different.

Starting point is 00:29:55 But it's just a natural thing. Are you looking to elevate your online presents? Check out Trailblazed, our digital marketing agency. Whether it's standing out on social media, crafting a stunning new website or developing impact visuals, Trailblazed has got your back. Visit Trailbased.digital and reach your online potentials a day. When it comes before the competition, do you have any specific habits or like routines before the competitions as a preparation?

Starting point is 00:30:26 So I try not to change any of my routine. I keep things consistent if I'm following a specific diet or nutrition plan or what have you. I try and keep it all consistent throughout the days leading up to the competition and especially the day off. I don't change my routine in terms of introducing anything new. I don't supplement with like pre-workout or anything like that. If I take creatine, I'm taking the same time.

Starting point is 00:30:48 So I keep things as consistent. Because your body is, you know, we just touched on it, you're under so much stress already, mental stress and mental load. You don't want to be adding anything in new. Now, in terms of preparation in, you know, fight camp, if I dare use that term, borrowing from MMA, preparation for a competition, that's different. Like, yes, we will be introducing different things like different cardio tactics, lifting weights, training with intention and that sort of thing.

Starting point is 00:31:17 But in terms of like the days leading up to the comp, the only thing I do is structure my comp day in my best performing day on the mats. And this is the advice I give to people. If, for example, on day is your best training day in Jiu-Jitsu, say you have a break Saturday Sunday and your first day of the week that you train is Monday, and that's your best training day, then structure the comp so that it lands on a Monday, meaning that the two days before you take off. However, like in the case of my coach, his best training day when he trains five days a week is Tuesday. So he will train the day before the comp because his peak day, he just knows over years of experience,

Starting point is 00:31:55 is the Tuesday. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't train the day before. I think it's mad, but it works really well for him. So that's the advice I would give in terms of like practical structuring your comp to make it your best training day of the week. That is smart. I haven't thought of it before. When it comes to after a competition out of curiosity, have you got any, let's say, specific habit such as cheat meal or something, how you reward yourself?

Starting point is 00:32:22 Yeah, man, we'll go hard. Depends if I win or not. Oh, kidding. Yeah, so after like it, yeah, man, it just varies. Sometimes like I come home and I have to cook dinner. Other times, you know, I come home or get pizza or whatever. It just really varies. I mean, I've competed a few times.

Starting point is 00:32:39 But yeah, nothing super specific. I think what's really important for me post-comp is to make sure that I show up on Monday to training, regardless of, you know, how I'm feeling, whether I'm broken or, you know, so long as there's no injuries, it's really important for me to show up to training on Monday as a reset, regardless, win, lose or what have you. Back to the routine. then to transition to your business. I would be curious, as you said, you started after you got a blue belt. So what were like the first steps of starting a business?

Starting point is 00:33:11 Yeah, that's a huge question. So I've run businesses before. Current business is BJJ Strong Online, which is basically training programs for jiu-jitsu in a nutshell for performance injury reduction. Those are the main focuses. But it's not my first business. I've been an online personal trainer for a while since I think 2015, really coming up on 10 years.

Starting point is 00:33:37 So my first business was a different business and specifically I'd work with, you know, weight loss clients and bodybuilding. This was all while still in the Navy. Then I ran a videography. I started a videography company. So this is ties into the content. Why I'm so into content is, yeah. YouTube makes complete sense to me. Yes, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:33:58 Yes. So I was a professional videographer and I started that with my friend Zach, who I mentioned, the guy that got me listening to Joe Rogan. And yeah, so we started a company called Groundline Productions. It's still running to this day. It's now Zach's company. I left the company about a year ago to pursue BGJ Strong Online full time. And then I started BGJ Strong Online at around that Blue Belt level. So I started doing one-on-one coaching with people. I then did a joint call. course called the BJJ Performance and Longevity course with Jordan Pressinger from Jordan Teachers Jiu-Jitsu. So I co-produced some courses with him. And then that evolved over time into what it is today being BJ Strongenline in its current format. So to start a business, though, to answer your question, yeah, it really depends on what business you're starting. I've had

Starting point is 00:34:51 some experience with a few different business structures and partnerships, sole trading, company structure now and other you know partnerships multiple partnerships rather it really depends on my business sorry go yeah i meant initially the bj strong online because i didn't know there was such a background behind it but it makes a complete sense to me it was like a evolution yeah yeah so i didn't go like i didn't get my blue belt and then just start you know coaching people personal training i i was a personal trainer for many years um i had many many years of coaching experience um i started to do you Jitsu. And I didn't do the typical white belt thing and start, you know, pivot to coaching

Starting point is 00:35:32 jiu-jitsu people straight away, you know, at least waited to a blue belt. However, I did get a lot of pushback from people, which is very interesting. And, you know, it is interesting that people would say, I would get messages in my DMs. I don't, I don't get these anymore now that, you know, I've progressed beyond. And like, now I'm like, there's enough separation between me and white belts. But I used to get messages in my DMs, like, oh, I really like your content. I sent it to my friend. and he told me not to listen to you because you're a bluebell. And these people are telling me not to put me down, but these people are telling me like it put them down.

Starting point is 00:36:04 They felt bad that they showed their friend. I'm like, what? Don't even worry about that. But yeah, there's a big difference between, you know, what my Jiu-Jitsu level was and what my coaching level was. But I do think it's important to have experience in Jiu-Jitsu before you start coaching for Jiu-Jitsu, even though they're different. Yeah, that's a bit of a tangent.

Starting point is 00:36:26 Yeah, I was about to say because on your website there are some quite impressive numbers. So give people some perspective and like a credit behind it. I would say there are more than 1,500 grapplers, more than 17,500 programs delivered. And lastly, more than 2.6 million grapers educated. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:52 So, I mean, it goes back to the courses that I did with Jordan. that's what in, I think the course released in 2022 or 2021, somewhere around there. So, you know, I've been in the jiu-jitsu-specific space now for many years and it does add up pretty quick. So, yeah. And maybe to help to promote the course a bit, you offer various different training programs, but how does it work when someone chooses a program? Is it online or some teaching from you? Yeah, really good question.

Starting point is 00:37:25 I mean, it's evolved so much over the years, Tom. And like, like I said, when I first started, it was only one-on-one staff was doing very personalized coaching. But I built out a library of what you would consider instructionals, right? So like BGG fanatics. Exactly. So what, and this is going to make sense once I circle around. Now, the work that I did with Jordan, Jordan teaches Jiu-Jitsu, we did a joint course in the

Starting point is 00:37:53 beginning and then I helped him with his jiu-jitsu theory course. The reason I'm bringing those up is we looked at the current model that was out there in the jiu-jitsu landscape of instructionals, like BGJ Fanatic style instructionals. And what we notice is they're very long-winded, they're very boring and the quality sucks. So we focus in on those three elements. We made them succinct. They're not like short. They're just, they're not eight hours long, repeating the same thing over and over again. They're very high-quality editing, high-quality production, and obviously have high quality information. So we took those elements and we produced what I consider one of the best

Starting point is 00:38:30 instructionals out there. I use the same sort of theory and what we developed and what I learned with Jordan to produce courses on BJ Strong Online. So that's on top of the training programs. So the courses are things like nutrition courses, performance accelerated courses, like teaching my philosophy about competing, structuring your, training for a competition, all these other variables on top of the main product, which is training programs.

Starting point is 00:39:00 So they're all delivered on three different formats. So this is not an infomercial, but it's sounding like it. Like you can get it on PDF. You can follow on the website itself on the platform, the BeJic Strong Online platform, you with your login. And probably the best tool is a fitness app called Train Heroic. So depending on which one you like, Some people like to print them out.

Starting point is 00:39:24 Some people like to have it on their phone with a PDF. And other people prefer the fitness app. Everything's got, you know, videos and stuff. So, yeah, that's how you follow the training programs. There's a shit lot of training programs. Is there a specific audience that you are targeting or it can be literally anyone? No, so specifically grapplers. So you're going to get the most benefit from if you're doing grappling specifically or combat sport.

Starting point is 00:39:51 I do have people that don't do something. grappling specifically, they train MMA, but it's still very applicable. So grapplers 100%. Now, I have different programs through different needs. So if you're focused on mobility and your movement efficiency, then we have a mobility focus, mobility and strength program. However, if you want to get jacked and you want to build muscle, then you do the BGJJ jacked program. So yeah, we have different programs for different requirements. And since you worked with so many clients, with so many people. Are there any Tumon recurring mistakes or teams that you see across these people?

Starting point is 00:40:30 Yes. Yeah. So the biggest mistake that I see grapplers in general make is particularly when you first start training jiu-jitsu or start grappling, you will, if you're the type of person that recognizes the significance of strength and performance on the mats, then you will think, okay, I want to get strong. What do you do? You go online, you type in how to get strong for Jiu-Jitsu, or you go up, like, type in a powerlifting program, right?

Starting point is 00:40:57 And then you download a powerlifting program. The problem with following a powerlifting specific program is it's not fit for purpose. Powerlifting programs will get you strong for powerlifting. They will not get you strong for grappling. It's a very common mistake that grapplers make is training like a strength athlete, a strength sport athlete. Strength sports are different sports. It's kind of like wanting to get good at Jiu-Jitsu so you go play soccer. It doesn't really make sense.

Starting point is 00:41:31 That's a bit of hyperbole. It's not quite like that. But you get my point. So that's the first mistake. The second mistake, and it's connected with the first, is people neglect the four, well, some of the four most neglected areas for grapplers is core, grip, carry, rotation. Those four elements are very, very neglected in powerlifting and in bodybuilding programs because it doesn't really fit with the powerlifting model as such and it doesn't really fit

Starting point is 00:42:04 with bodybuilding because it's not bodybuilding is an aesthetic pursuit, a muscle building aesthetic pursuit. It's not a performance pursuit. So powerlifting bodybuilding programs and neglecting core grip carry and rotation are the most common mistakes to grapples make across the board. And there are some specific exercises that you would recommend to focus on? For core grip carrying rotation, yes, there is. If we just focus on the grip and carry for a second, there's two main ways that I recommend people implement grip strength training into their programming.

Starting point is 00:42:40 The first is through modifications. So adding things like towel grips to your pull-ups or towel grips to your pull-ups or towel grips to your bent over rows or dumbbell rows, things of that nature. The importance here is that grip shouldn't be your primary limiting factor in the exercise that you're modifying. So for example, you would never add, in my opinion, you'd never add towel grips or fat grip attachments, those large rubber attachments you can add to barbells to increase the grip diameter.

Starting point is 00:43:11 You would never do that on a deadlift because grip is a limiting factor in many people's deadlift so much so that lifting straps are very popular for deadlift for that reason. But you would add it to something like a bent over row or a dumbbell row, as I mentioned, because grip is generally speaking not a limiting factor. So you can still work your lap muscles and your biceps in the row, but you're also modifying it to challenge your grip strength further. The second method of grip strength training is by adding dedicated grip strength exercises. many, many exercises that work well for grapplers.

Starting point is 00:43:50 Just to give you some, you can do a plate pinch hold or a dumbbell hold. And two of my favorites is the dumbbell wrist extension and wrist curl. So those two are fantastic that you can add as well. And there's various other grip strength specific exercises, different holds. For carry, we're talking about carrying capacity. So the farmer's carry is the king here. you can do various different modifications of farmers carry. And yeah, so that's for grip and carry.

Starting point is 00:44:25 For core and rotation, core strength is so important, particularly for playing guard. But when someone first starts training jiu-jitsu, one of the biggest complaints with guard is, oh my God, my abs, they're just killing me. Because you're in a half-crunch. You're trying to maintain your knees to your chest. your core is going to be on fire. So working that isometric core strength is really important. There's various different symmetric holds you can do for core.

Starting point is 00:44:56 Basic example is a hollow body hold. If you don't know what that is, just Google it or look it up. I'm pretty sure I have it on my YouTube. That's a fantastic example of core strength isometric. Now, here's the kickup. Rotation out of all four is probably the most neglected. A lot of grapplers realize that grip strength is important, so they add grip shank.

Starting point is 00:45:17 A lot of grapplers feel the burn of their abs in holding, maintaining their guard, feel that core is important. But not many recognize the importance of rotation until they tear

Starting point is 00:45:29 some rib cartilage or get some rib injuries because they're explosively trying to rotate and bridge out of site control bottom or something along those lines. So rotation is very,

Starting point is 00:45:40 very important to train and it's very neglected in power lifting and body build. Now, what exercises can you do? Many. But to give you some, to give you some very basic examples

Starting point is 00:45:54 that people would probably recognize, something like a Russian twist where you're holding, you don't even need to be holding weight, just twisting from side to side in a crunch is a great one. A version of an explosive rotational exercise is using medicine ball. So something like a kneeling,

Starting point is 00:46:12 overhead rotational med ball slam, that's a mouthful. you're basically taking a medicine ball from in a kneeling position, taking a medicine ball from your left hip over your head, slamming it down to your right and then taking it back the other side. Or you can do something like a single arm rotational cable row. You anchor a cable machine to the bottom, take it with a handle grip,

Starting point is 00:46:33 and you do a big rotation through your core. You can do this fairly explosively as well and incorporate the row there. So there's many different examples. hard to convey over a podcast format. Yeah. You get the idea. No, it's a lot of valuable content. I will need to do my homework as well and update my workout because I think I've been neglecting it a bit and I think I should also update it.

Starting point is 00:47:01 But another important part of this is obviously nutrition. So again, can you name some recurring mistakes or just something that your clients fall short when it comes to nutrition? Yeah, so it's really fascinating. People fall usually into one of two camps, and I'll go over probably the most common off the bat. And that is, ironically, a lot of grapplers are under-eating. They're not eating enough, specifically they're under-eating carbohydrates. Because jiu-jitsu is such a physically demanding sport, it burns a lot of calories. It takes up a lot of your glycogen stores.

Starting point is 00:47:44 So you need to replenish your glycogen by eating more carbohydrate. A lot of the time, when people start training jiu-jitsu, maybe they've been training for a couple months, they're ramping up in preparation for a competition. All of a sudden, you'll start to feel really fatigued all the time. You'll be tired, particularly after lunch. You'll have that mid-afternoon crash. Your workouts are getting more sluggish. Your performance on the mats, particularly if you do evening classes by the time you get there,

Starting point is 00:48:11 they're sluggish, your sleeping is deteriorating. It's not because you're necessarily, you're overtraining. It's because you're not fueling your body, the right nutrients, specifically carbohydrate, to repair your muscle, restore your glycogen, and recover from your training. So that puts you into a state of non-functioning overreaching for your training, not because of your training stimulus as such,

Starting point is 00:48:36 but because of your shit nutrition. So that is one of the most common. Now, to talk to the other most common mistake, and this is less common than the first in my experience, is a very specific individual. Someone who has started training jiu-jitsu as a means of weight loss or fitness. And say they start training jiu-jitsu at white belt, whatever, they train for a few years, they got up to purple, they got up to brown belt. And they use jiu-jitsu as fitness. but when they get older and when they achieve brown belt, they're starting to put on weight again.

Starting point is 00:49:14 And they're slowly putting on weight, putting on weight. They're like, I don't get it. I train jiu-jitsu three times a week. I'm, you know, bust in my ass, blah, blah, blah, training all the time. And yet I'm still gaining weight. I've gotten fat slowly over the time. And that's because as a brown belt,

Starting point is 00:49:26 your movement efficiency compared to when you're a white belt is so greater that you're not burning as many calories. You're not working as hard. You think you are, but you're not. So your nutrition, in this case, you're overeating. So you need to modify your nutrition and reduce your calories. I recommend keeping your protein intake high and reducing carbs and fats in this case. But this individual is much less common. Yeah. And then the last one, also another important aspect, would be recovery.

Starting point is 00:49:58 Can you name maybe some important aspects to focus on or again something that people shouldn't underestimate when it comes to recovery? Absolutely. recovery is one of my favorite topics because i think it's it's less sexy it's overlooked often you know people don't tend to seek out recovery information until you know they're hurting which is fine until it's too late yes more or less yes so the way i like to look at recovery for grappling or combat sport in general i look at recovery in three pillars the three pillars of recovery is we've already touched on one nutrition the next is training intensity and the third and most

Starting point is 00:50:37 important, which I normally start with, sleep. Sleep is the most important aspect of recovery. Now, in terms of what I recommend, in an ideal world, we're all getting seven to nine hours of sleep opportunity per night, not to be confused with actual sleep. So sleep opportunity means you're in bed for seven to nine hours. Because if you're in bed for seven hours, you're probably getting around six hours of sleep because we don't sleep all the way through. So we need to account for that.

Starting point is 00:51:08 So seven to nine hours of sleep opportunity per night is ideal. If you're in bed for nine hours, you're probably getting about eight hours of sleep, unless you sleep like a unicorn and you're perfect, which I haven't come across them yet. The next that I mentioned is training intensity. Now, I already alluded to it in the beginning, but when I first started training jiu-jitsu, I was on the mats like 10 plus times per week doing 10-plus sessions rather. and I was still trying to maintain my weightlifting and my body was falling apart because my training intensity was far too high, especially when I tried to follow a powerlifting program to get strong for jiu-jitsu.

Starting point is 00:51:49 I made the mistake that I see many, many others making. So this is coming from firsthand experience. Training intensity is reducing your training load, but also adapting your training load with tools like auto-regulation. like RPE and reps in reserve if you prefer, but basically modifying your training to account for your grappling. And that's where reducing your weightlifting, two to three targeted sessions per week will take you a long way.

Starting point is 00:52:20 And we already touched on nutrition. So prioritizing high quality sources of protein, carbohydrates and fats, but having around about 50% of your total calories coming from carbohydrates. hydrates is what I recommend, particularly if your training load is high. Yeah, that sounds great. And just to be aware of time, what are your goals or aspirations or plans when it comes to either Jiu-Jitsu, your business or even something else?

Starting point is 00:52:51 Yeah, so goals with Jiu-Jitsu is longevity. It's changed a lot. Like when I was first started training Jiu-Jitsu, it was like, oh, I want to be a world champion, I want to do this and that. my competition aspirations have very much evaporated. I want to be, I'm now in it, or my mindset rather, has shifted for longevity. I want to stay as active in the sport as possible, be as dangerous on the mats as possible. And for the longest time, particularly as I get older, still be able to hang with the young

Starting point is 00:53:24 up-and-coming guys that are coming through. So those are my goals now. Not that old, but yeah. Just looking forward to the first. feature, right? So that's the goals with my personal Jiu-Jitsu. Now, goals with BJ Strong Online is make the product as good as possible. Just keep releasing new products, keep updating, keep serving my current client base to bring the absolute best product, quality service as possible and let more people know about it. That's the mission. And unfortunately, we didn't have time to

Starting point is 00:53:59 discuss it much about the plans with your YouTube channel to keep growing? Yeah, yeah, 100%. I've been a lot more consistent lately, particularly when I moved back from Sweden. We didn't talk about it, but I lived in Sweden for 12 months. Yeah, ever since I moved back, it's, you know, all systems go much, you know, now that I'm back in my studio, better quality content, and more consistent, have access to an amazing gym. I have to give a shout out to Warrior performance in Sydney. I train there for weights. It's, as it says, sounds amazing worry performance check it out if you're in south city but yeah yeah so the youtube channel we have some bigger videos that i i do have on the horizon uh probably coming next year some

Starting point is 00:54:42 bigger collabs and maybe going to canada to visit someone probably guess who so it's exciting yeah yeah a few things on the i'm curious why did you actually move to sweden yeah my wife is Swedish. So we went, we went to visit her family for 12 months. So she wanted to spend a little bit of time at home. She's been in Australia for nearly 10 years, but I wanted to spend some time in Sweden with her family and I was happy to go. So we went. I still trained jiu-jitsu when I was there. It was an awesome Jiu-Jitsu Academy. Not too far from in New Orleans. No, we lived there about two hours north of Stockholm, so in a rural part of Sweden. Like in, if you look at a map of Sweden, it's pretty much in the middle in darling up in the county and then just to finish it up now feel free to promote your services

Starting point is 00:55:33 or where people can follow you where people can find you Tom and you've been a line of up for me to knock down I think I've promoted my services plenty but I will say like if you if you haven't heard me before and you're listening to this and you're like okay yep I like with these guys to say obviously you can check out my social media channels which I'm sure you're going to link to or go to BJJ strongline.com. But what I do recommend if you just want to get your hands on a program to improve your strength, improve your mobility, your performance on the matts, and most importantly, reduce your risk of injury.

Starting point is 00:56:08 Then I have a free program available two day per week, 12 week program, completely freely available. And you can find that link in my link tree, my buyer. So go to BJStrongenline.com forward slash links. It will come up. Or you could just find my social zone and click the link. I can see you directly to put into the description. And as always, I will add any links to the show note.

Starting point is 00:56:30 I notice you also have a newsletter. So for any people that are interested in learning about Jiu-Jitsu and Strength and Conditioning, subscribe to the newsletter. And Kieran want to say a big thank you. As someone who's been following you and watching on YouTube, it was a pleasure to speak with you. I think we'll need to do part two at some point in the future because when it comes to speaking about jiu-jitsu,

Starting point is 00:56:54 it's always a long conversation, but we're exciting. Yeah, for sure. And I wish you all the best, stay healthy, good progress on a match, and thank you very much for joining me. Likewise, thanks so much, Tomlin, for having me.

Starting point is 00:57:08 It was a good conversation. Appreciate your time. Thanks for listening to Produce Bye with Tomer. Check out show notes for all the links, and don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave your feedback. Speak soon.

Produced By - The Grappler’s Blueprint: Build Strength, Avoid Injuries, and Dominate | #73: Kieren Lefevre

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