Produced By - The Music Industry Through the Eyes of a Music Producers’ Manager and A&R | #37: Elena Cabal Rodriguez

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Balancing the artistic and the managerial, Elena Cabal Rodríguez thrives as a Junior Manager at Eaves Music Group and the creator of the dynamic social media project "Live vs Live." She brings versatility and dynamism to her role, wielding expertise in artists development, creative strategy and administrative support. Creativity, initiative and determination are her guiding principles, evident in her meticulous organizational skills, unwavering responsibility and calm demeanor, even under pressure. Dive deeper into the music industry's production side through Elena's lens, discover her company's collaborations with renowned artists and let her infectious positivity and ambitious spirit inspire your own dreams. Elevate your online presence with the help of Trailblazed, your (and our) favourite digital marketing agency. ⁠⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠⁠ If you enjoy the show, please, consider supporting it on Patreon or by buying a virtual coffee (or chocolate). ⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/producedby⁠⁠ ⁠ Boost your creative career by joining our new Skillshare course and feel free to let us know how you liked it. ⁠⁠⁠https://skl.sh/3Rh7ZtY⁠⁠⁠ Don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date, get the latest news and much more. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Elena: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-cabal-rodriguez/ https://www.instagram.com/elenacabalrodriguez/ Connect with the host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow the podcast: Links: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ Web: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://produced-by-podcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/produced_by_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5LHnM6YCaeVzIr0WatOsw⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/41BiG5YvGIgITz1N14hF2E ⁠ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/produced-by/id1684669642⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please, leave a review on your podcast app, subscribe and share it with your friends. You can also send us a message and share any feedback, advice and tips for guests. About Produced By: Produced By unveils captivating stories of courageous people who set out to pursue careers in highly competitive fields, despite often challenging circumstances. Enter the spotlight with our guests and get inspired, whether your interests are in the creative industries, personal growth or you simply want to have fun. Listen to individuals who represent a wide range of professional backgrounds, geographic locations and career stages. So come along to follow their adventures and learn from life's experiences as we kick off on this epic journey. Thanks for listening and see you soon! Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Elena, thank you for joining today and welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So fun.

Can you please introduce yourself? Yes, so hi everyone. My name is Elena. I am producers and songwriters, manager in the music industry. And yeah, I'm based in London, but I am from Spain. So that's basically me. It's exciting to welcome someone from music industry, because the past few interviews I did mostly film industry or BFX.

I don't want to say that those are not excited. They are, but it's great to have something a bit different. Of course, yeah. And I'm really happy to be here and share what it is to be in the music industry full time. So can we start with your background? You said you are from Spain. So what was it like growing up there? Yes, of course. I mean, growing up here, I was really lucky and very fortunate to grow up in a really nice neighborhood in Madrid. And then when I finished high school, I moved to the UK to study at Middlesex popular music. my BA in popular music.

And yeah, and then from there, I started getting more and more involved in little things related to the music industry because my degree was purely music. It was just like production, songwriting, performance, everything related to that side of the industry. So, yeah, I started like organizing different events. I started getting involved in like the different things at university put on together and that led me into graduating in 2020, which obviously everyone knows

that it was a really five years to graduate for university. But right after that, I jumped into a music business master's, which got me the job that I am working at right now, two years later, which is basically a role

in a management company of producers in some writers. So that's basically my role. In a nutshell, there's a lot of... So it's not, it's not singing? No, I used to. I used to. I do it now in like the shower and I hope you can bother my neighbors and my... We all know. Yeah, I do it from time to time to, yeah, just for fun. But I don't do it professionally anymore. You know, one of the most frustrating things of working with really talented producers, artists and writers, is that then you get home and you're like, yeah, I am, I am not going to take this serious. Because everybody's so good.

But, yeah, no, I still like to do it sometimes. So when you started studying music, did you already want to work in this site, like management and business side rather than being a singer? No, no, I had no idea. I actually didn't have any idea of what I wanted to do. I came, like, when I was at high school, like, I think six months before we had to choose what we were going to do and which university we were going to go to. I didn't know what I wanted to do because I was studying biology, physics, chemistry and like all of this science. So something completely different. totally different yeah because I enjoyed it I think it was fun it was very hard I didn't like maths

but the rest I loved and yeah but I didn't really want it I didn't want to do it as a career like for sure like I was like yeah no this is not for me but I didn't know what I wanted to do so when my when my like my my the opportunity of coming to London came into place I was like oh maybe this is my sign to do something more creative. And I started looking into different universities. And my plan B as a creative career was fine arts and design, because I really love to do that. And I had music a bit on the back, as in like, no, it doesn't give you a job. Music cannot give you a job. So I'm not going to do that. And it was my parents who told me, why do you say that if you really want to study it because like inside of me I've really wanted to do music um but I was really

like denial like no this is not going to give you a job yeah and it was my parents that wants to encourage me to go for it and choose a degree that had something related to music but because I didn't know if I wanted to do business or if I wanted to do music or what I wanted to do within the music industry, I chose a degree that was very, like, really varied, like, really diverse. So that's why I ended up at Middlesex because they offered me a very wide range of modules that I could choose from. So, yeah. Yeah. That sounds great that your parents were supportive because I feel like it usually is that parents want their kids to study these traditional industries that give you security.

of a job so it was good your career could have been completely different no definitely and to be fair nowadays nothing really gives you a job uh no industry really secures you a job there is nothing i mean unless you are in like in artificial intelligence but uh not even doing that so um yeah so they were just like you know if you just try it and If you don't like it, it's only going to be three years of your life, which is nothing when you're like 18 years old. Now I think about it, and back then was a world, you know, like, what do you mean? Three years?

I'm going to be a functional adult by the time I finish that. And it's not true. You're definitely a functional adult. So, yeah, yeah, I'm really glad and thankful that my parents are really supportive on this. And what was the reason for choosing London? because I would imagine that there might be opportunities in Madrid as well or even Spain in general. Yeah, I mean, the problem is that right now, yes, there is way more opportunities in Madrid to study contemporary music, like a bit more popular music of nowadays a music industry and things like that.

But when I graduated high school, the only two options that you had were either going and study jazz as a musician, or going and study classical music, or study to be a teacher, basically, in, like, high school and primary schools. Like, there was no really an option, like, to study something else. And I knew for sure I didn't want to be a musician, like a professional musician,

and I knew for sure that I didn't want to be a teacher because I'm really bad. But, yeah, I'm like, I was like, and then when this opportunity came up, I thought it was a really good opportunity to go to London because that's kind of like music capital in the world, basically. So yeah. Yeah. And how did you feel like very excited or were you scared to move to such a big city in different country?

Oh, I was so excited to get the hell out. I was like, I've always been really, really brave and like doing like things out of, like, like the box and out of my comfort zone and going to London, I was like, because I come from a town is true that there are loads of opportunities here, but not as many as a city that London can offer you. I was so excited. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going. The first year was amazing and the second year that's getting harder, but it's okay.

I was going to say if it met your expectations or how did you find I think so. I think London at first really like it was really like it was way bigger than I thought it would be. And it was a bit like I struggled a bit especially on the second and third years to find my place. Because he's a very lonely city, especially for people who don't necessarily who were not born and raised there. it's a city of like coming and going basically everyone never no one really stays forever there so so it was like it was especially with the pandemic and everything it was a matter of like seeing how you're staying and people you hadn't known for a long time are leaving and others are coming and then going but at first yes I think I think it's a it's a very nice city if you if you're ready for it basically it's a very demanding city, but yeah.

And can you tell us a bit more about the course you studied? Because as you said, it was like a broader. So what kind of subjects did you study, for example? So, I think it was a really broad

like a degree. I could, I think in my first year, very general. So we had a bit of an introduction to the music industry, which, funny enough I didn't know it existed before I joined the course. I only discovered it distance while I came to London. Surprise. And I completely fell in love with it. Yeah, no, so, so, so shocking to be there. And then, yeah, I had a bit of like performance on writing,

production. And then I focused more on the technical side of things. So I think in second and third year, you had to choose, like, which path you wanted to follow, a bit more artistic or a bit more technical. And I decided to go through the technical one, which is spending hours and hours and hours in the studio and just recording, engineering and producing music. So that's what I did for a long time, which was super useful for me to be able to work with professional producers

and some artists after that. So yeah. And did you know that you wanted to go or focus on this site already when you entered the course, or did you kind of discover it along? I completely let myself flow

I think no I didn't even know that it was a thing until I got off for a job when I was doing my master's I was studying at University of Westminster in my master's in music business and my module lead

tutor yeah my tutor came to me one day in one of our tutorials that we had. And she said, there's this company very small that are looking for an assistant. It's a full-time job, but it's very basic. Like, you're going to be carrying coffees and stuff. I don't know if it's something that you would be interested in. And I was like, that's how you're meant to start in the music industry, like in any kind of creative industries.

Yeah, exactly. Like, that's how you're going to get your food on the door. And I saw the roster of the producers they were working with. And I was like, this is it. This is my golden opportunity, even if I have to bring coffees for a while, like, what do you mean? So, yeah, I accepted the role, but I didn't know that producers and the producers have had managers at all, basically. I thought that was an artist. It sounds similar to film industry, where you also, let's say, need to start on the bottom, making coffees and then hope to climb your way up. So I didn't know. Yes.

It is exactly the same. It is exactly same. And to be fair, I'm really thankful that I started in a very small company. It's only, I still work there, but it's only four of us, like two managers and head of ANR. And well, now I'm an ANR, but, and like junior manager. But back in the day, was like just as an assistant. And, and yeah, it was like, it was a very, very tiny company, which gave me a lot.

of opportunities to be directly in touch with the higher-ups in the company and the producers themselves and the songwriters themselves. But yeah, it was a very, very basic admin role in the beginning. And also to get an idea of the course, what were, for example, course projects? Like, what did you do if you remember in the first year at the end of the year, in the second, or even what was the final project in the third year? I remember my last year, the project that I did in my last year of uni, we had to record. This was an interesting one because I don't know if it happened to you.

When did you graduate in? 2021. I graduated when the COVID happened. You're a pandemic. You're a pandemic graduate like I am. No? It's true that it was a very challenging. It was a very challenging year.

So for all the technical projects, they started being something and then they turned into something else because we didn't have the whole equipment to record it. So my last year's recording project was, I think, like 30 minutes of music, you're like 45 minutes of music, something like that. And it needed to be mixed in, like, 5.1, which is basically the sound system of the cinema for those, you know, but obviously... I had no idea what you are talking about.

Yeah, basically, 5.5.5 is a system. Like, instead of a stereo, which is just two speakers, 5.1 is like five different speakers. Oh, okay. But, yeah, basically, I didn't even have two speakers at all. So when the pandemic March 2020, I still hadn't submitted my project because it was due in May or something like that.

So I had literally finished all the recording in time before the pandemic. Like all the recordings that I needed to do in the studio, I did it like the Sunday or like the Saturday before they locked us up. So I had all the things, but I needed to mix them. So at the end, they changed it. And I mixed them in stereo, like normal.

like headphones kind of thing. But it was very, it was very challenging, but I loved it. I learned so much from that project. And especially, I'm a very social person. So I really enjoy spending time with people. And if that includes a studio, I'm like, I'm in. So I recorded all the people and I was kind of like the producer in the studio. And just being there, spending hours with the musicians, that was like my favorite part, I think.

Yeah. And how was the project in the end? Did you manage well despite these conditions? Yeah, yeah. I think I did pretty well. I passed like good grades. And yeah, now I look back and I think it was a very good opportunity for me to get like hands on the producer's world and to develop a fifth sense for certain elements in a mixed production. that now I can take and I can when our producers send us demos and they ask for feedback, I can give them a bit more of a technical feedback, basically, because I know what I'm listening to. Yeah. And I'm curious. This question comes from someone who doesn't know anything about music production. But can you say more about actually the process? Is it like you come to the studio and there's like, I don't know, screens, but. and you are pressing and something happens?

Or is it your laptop? What is it like? It depends on your role inside of the room. But yes, so basically, I'm just going to explain more or less what a normal date session is. But basically from like the beginning of the process is when the manager meets an artist manager, label or a publisher and they flag with us an artist that they would like our producer to work with. So, I don't know, like, for example, let's put an example. Very big, but like, let me see, Duelipe is writing her next album and she wants to

like collaborate with one of our producers. Then the relationship like between management is like built or label, whatever. and then we set up a date in the calendar and then the artist goes to the producer's studio and once they get there they just start writing and it can be there's three different types of writing sessions in which the first one the first type is when the artist is in the room and they can be with a producer they can be with other writers

They could be with no writers, just one producer, several producers, or like maybe a topliner. The difference between some writer and top liners, some liner, they usually focus on the melody and the lyrics. And the song writers are a bit of like everything and they write the courts as well and stuff. But yeah, there's a lot of combinations. The second type is when there's no artist in the room, but we know who we are writing for. So previous to the session, we have received a brief, which basically tells like outlines a project, like an artist or whatever, and then what they're looking for, sound-wise, sonic-wise. So maybe they give you a reference of like, I need a song that sounds like this song by Ariana Grande mixed with Jack Harlow and mixed with like whatever other song. and then you go take a like you give that to the producers and the songwriters and they get together and write it specifically for that brief.

And then there's like the third type which is there's just no brief or no artist and they just get together and they write something. And then it's our role, the managers or the publishers to get the song and just think about an artist that could like the song and that could feed their project and just send it to the team. So those are kind of like the three types. And then once they're in the room, they basically just start writing. They divide the roles. They basically beforehand, before the session, we know who is going to be producing. We know who is going to be writing and who's going to be top lining. Sometimes the lines are very thin.

So they end up all getting rights, like publishing rights, for example, a producer can get publishing rights, which are there. some writing rights basically, some whiter rights. And yeah, or they don't need to if they don't put any input in the song writing-wise. But it's very rare that they don't get anything. But anyways, I'm getting around the question. But anyways, so yes, once the song is Freddie, it gets back to us. And then we decide what to do. If it has an artist already, we just wait for the feedback.

the label or the artist manager or whoever is we're in touch with, see if they want to release it or if they're not interested or if they're just going to keep it for a bit and think about it. And then if it didn't have an artist, then that's where we just go and try and pitch it somewhere to whoever with this. But yeah. That was a lot of information. It's a lot of information. It's a lot of chronologically, but it's a bit of No, it's just because I have pretty much zero knowledge of this process and this area. So I find it interesting, but just trying to make sense of it. It's very interesting, I think, to see it from the outside when you don't have any idea of what's going on.

And you have no idea how many times my grandmother has asked me, but what do you do? And I don't know what to tell her. I agree. And you mentioned a few times writing. So is it only writing of the music or the melody, or does it include lyrics as well, or it depends? Everything. Yes, exactly.

A music as it sounds, like a song as it sounds, the writing of it is usually the chords, the melodies, and the lyrics. And then the producer comes in and adds all the yellow. that put those three together. So, yeah. And does that also happen that artist comes with lyrics already written and just to work on the music? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. That's happened a lot of times.

That has to be obviously told before a session, like, hey, we have this idea. We would love one of your producers to give it a go on the production side because we think that there's style of producing really could suit this type of song that we have already written. So then they are bringing as a producer, like just merely producer. And then sometimes they just have ideas and they just bring them to the session and they finish them up basically. But yeah, it can happen. And also something I'm curious about, is then a producer quite a creative person?

Because, for example, if I compare it to film industry, their producer is more like, you you know, business side or administrative, doing paperwork and stuff like this. So is it in music industry different that he's actually creative? So the producer is like super creative. It's a very creative role. And I think that's how the manager, this figure, like the person of the manager of producers came in. Because this way, they can focus merely on creating. I think

Yeah, I think I think the role of the producer in the music industry is really, really creative and what we do as managers make their lives easier, basically. We are the ones making the connections. We are the ones pitching the songs that don't have an artist. We are the ones like just doing everything

but the music. And then obviously gives them feedback, but that's like, that's just after it happens. But yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. I was a surprise. that it differs from the film industry so much so it's cool and yeah that's true and coming back to your education then since the COVID happened and probably disrupted your plans what what we're about to do i know you said you went to study a master's so was it yes a result of it or did you plan it even before

so no i didn't want to study a master's because my plan was to dive in directly in the live music industry. I wanted to do, before the pandemic, I did a lot of stage management and production management and events management. And that's something that I really liked. So when the pandemic hit, I had to rethink everything. And because there was no festivals happening, no music, like no, no live music, no tours, no nothing. So I had to really find an alternative to basically kill time because I had to, I had to really, you know, I couldn't stop. I had to continue learning.

And yeah, and then when the pandemic in March, I spent the first lockdown in London. And I was really bored. And I started like just doing live streaming on Instagram in my Instagram account, just talking to my apartment. Just how they were doing and how they were coping with the pandemic

and how their mental health was. And that kind of like scaled up to like the rest of the music industry. so I started bringing in guests for like about a year. Like from like really, really big people, like tour managers and production managers and things like that to just runners. And we would just talk about what it was to be full time working in the music industry. And that kind of like gave me a broad perspective of what was going on behind the scenes and other areas as well of the music industry. and it led me basically to go study a master's of music business management at a university of Westminster, which I did online because there was obviously nothing happening.

So I did it online study from my house in Spain and then got the job and came back to London in 2021. So was it a result of those interviews you did that? Maybe they advised you that it will be beneficial for the industry. or why did you actually decide for it? The master's? Mm-hmm. Oh, actually, it was my parents again. So they were the ones that told me, you know what?

I think maybe you could like just kill time by studying a master's. And because everything is online, you can do it from home and you can just continue your academic career. and just by the time that this finishes and the music industry opens up again, then you will have a master's. And I was like, actually, that's not a bad idea. So that's why I did it. Oh, it makes sense. It's actually pretty much, I share the story because also when the COVID happened,

I did master's as well because the film industry was shot. And I thought, okay, once it reopens, I will come back. It makes sense, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Masters was The Masters was again Music in general Or did you focus now

Since you had a better idea of what you want to do Yes, I did focus a bit more In music business management So they taught us like loads of different fields So I studied from my copyright to A&R To artist development To live production of concerts and tours and festivals and things like that.

Sustainability as well. It was a very, very full-on, complete overview of the music industry. So I've really liked it because I got to learn so much that I could have gone anyway. And then I ended up going somewhere that I didn't even know where it existed. So it's cool, I guess. So is that something that you would record? comment to someone who would want to pursue a car in similar industry? Yeah, no, definitely.

I think, to be fair, it depends on, like, obviously, which area. Good thing about Masters is that, especially the one that I did, is that it was very well connected and they brought in loads of, like, really good guests. And you had the chance of being, like, learning from people who are, like, doing, like, their, like leaving the music industry every day so you get to hear their stories and their most updated version of what is going on in the music industry.

So yeah, yeah. It's a very good opportunity. I really enjoyed it. That sounds good, yeah. And what was the final project here in Masters? My final project was, it was a written one. And I did one, it was fun because it was a written essay and I chose because it was fun writing essay. I mean, to be fair, I'm a bit nerdy, so I enjoy research and writing and reading and stuff.

People would not say the same, but I enjoy it. Basically, I did it on live streaming versus live music. So the difference being, like, how was impacting at emerging levels of artists doing live gigs rather than like live streaming in order to build a fan base from the beginning. So, yeah, I would have to read, like, I'll see if I can find it again. It should be somewhere. But I want to read it again. Take sure this sounds interesting. Would it be like, for example, with...

Spotify and streaming platforms like this? No, more like live streaming of concerts. Oh, okay, okay, yeah, like, how the live stream of concerts would affect how it would help build a fan base to emerging level artists rather than going and like having actual going to gigs and stuff. But yeah. If you want to boost your online presents,

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So my next steps were like I literally started working as soon as I finished my dissertation in August 2021. I started in September 2021 to work at this management company. And yeah, from there I basically started as I told you before, I started as an assistant. Just like doing very admin basic things like scheduling sessions and invoicing. and doing, yeah, doing just like the most admin-based thing ever. And then I started getting a bit more involved in the creative side of things. So helping out setting up sessions, discovering new artists, building relationships within the music industry to hear what was going on,

like the latest that's going on. And little by little, like my managers, they were really nice and they started giving me more creative control over, who we were doing sessions with and who we were putting forward to our producers to work with. And yeah, and pitching songs as well. I started doing a lot in the last few months. I started doing a lot with the K-pop market,

which is huge now. And building relationships within the Latin American and Spanish music industries, which is amazing. It's very, very fun and it's a lot of work, but it's really cool. Yeah, that's how it basically developed. Are you focusing on Latin America and Spanish market because of your background, or is that coincidence? I think it makes it easier that I am like Spanish because obviously I understand their way of working and I understand their language and I like the music that they make. It makes it easier.

But also because I'm really passionate about building a bridge between the English, music industry, English or English-speaking industry, and the Latin American one, because there are so many opportunities right now over there for producers to build really, really good careers and a lot, like a very good reputation. So, yeah, my passion lies within building that bridge between the UK and the Spanish-speaking market. Yeah. And you may have mentioned that, but how did you actually find the job, the first job?

Because usually it's quite difficult to find the first one after you graduate. It's really difficult. I found it through my tutor at Masters. So we were just having a tutorial on my CV and stuff like that. And she was helping me put it together. And then she told me, you know what? I've heard that these guys are looking for an assistant. Maybe it would be something that you want to do just to get your foot on the door.

And I was like, yes, 100%, I'll do it. So I did a couple of things, which were very informal because it was a very small company. So you didn't have to go through all of this very boring and probably unnecessary processes of having seven interviews before you get the job. Because at the end of the day, this is a very face-to-face industry. It's a very personal relationship. industry. So, especially at the merging, like, at very, very ground levels in the music industry, you don't really need to demonstrate a high knowledge of, like, the area that you're getting into. You just need to have a few social skills and be a hard worker and demonstrated, basically.

Oh, bless you. Yeah. A couple of, like, interviews with them. I saw them, I think two or three times, two on and then one's in person. Sorry. I'm one in person. But that was basically it, yeah. And then I got the job because I love them.

I love the guys. I love the producers they work with. And that's how it started. And again, trying to compare it to film industry, how much is music industry about connections and the network?

If, for example, someone from outside who doesn't know anyone, is it challenging to get in? It is more challenging to get in. Like, it is not impossible, but obviously loads of the roles that are happening or like most of the roles that are opening in the music industry. There are either roles that are not advertised or roles that are already given. They're still advertised, but they're already given to someone else that had the connections and they know each other. It's an industry of like who you know and what do they think about you. It's a very like reputation based industry. It doesn't mean that you need to know, obviously you need to know the right people, but you also need to be, like you also need to have really good, like reputation.

People need to think very good about you. And to be fair, like one of the things, I don't know if it happens in the film industry, I guess it happens. But because we work for people with people, it's not a robots industry, it's not a technical industry, it's all about people.

You have to be kind and you have to be nice and you have to always, like, you have to be as helpful as you can and a very, very hard worker. So then people, that's what people have think about you. And when something comes up or when a role that they think you would be good for, that will put you forward. But it's not impossible to get through the door, especially at a ground level,

because you need a few social skills and to demonstrate that you want to do the work, that you're passionate and that you really want that and demonstrate it. And then once you're in, it's just a matter of like hanging out with people, going out alone. and then making those quality relationships and just remember that it's all about what people think about you basically. Yeah. I was about to ask you what piece of advice would you give, but it sounds like you shared some good advice.

But is there something you want to add? Whether it's a career or university related? I think in this industry, it's not as academic as it could be for other industries. I think it's a matter of just like be kind. I think one of the best pieces of advice that I ever received was, which was through those series of Instagram lives that I did. It's from someone that said like it's nice to be nice and it's true.

It's just nice to be nice because there's so many like big heads. There are so many, like, really bad people in the industry, loads of egos. So if you just show a bit of humanity and, like, you're just, you're just humble and you're just willing to learn and you're willing to recognize when you've done a mistake and apologize for it and just treat people with kindness. Like, I think, I think that's going to take you way long, like way further in time than any degree or any master's or anything you do, academic wise, basically. And are those recordings still available somewhere? Yeah, I think they're still on Instagram. I think they live around like Instagram. Someone wants to go back to them.

Why don't you or why didn't you continue because of time? That's a good question. But yes, mainly because of time because when the pandemic closed, sorry, when the pandemic kind of like finished, the whole music industry opens up again. And I started building connections. Instead of more digital, I started building them more physical. Going to loads of events, going to a lot of gigs, going to a lot of networking things, going to a lot of meetings.

So I kind of left it there. I think I should like do it again. Everyone asks me. I think I should do it again. I start posting again. Now with the TikTok thing, it's like, oh, I am so lazy. I have to do TikTok, but yes, probably it will have to. Yeah, I mean, it could bring quite a few views on TikTok.

That is true. Yeah. And are there any big names that you worked with and you can share? Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, in the roster that we work with, our guys have worked with really big names. They have been the ones developing the sound. of Bastille, Bracken Bowman,

Duelipa, Luis Capaldi. Who else? Well, a lot of different people. James Arthur. They've worked with James Bay at some time. Well, Georges Smith, Mahalia, Stormsy,

Sugar Babes, very big people. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes I don't talk about who we work with because I don't directly work with them. I work with the producers. But when I

When I mentioned the names, they're like, everyone is like, what do you mean? That's crazy. But I know, I don't know. And how does that happen? How do they choose to work with you? Or, you know, how does it start? It depends, yeah. It depends if they, if it's a long-term relationship, it's because with that artist is that now is big, is because they started from the beginning.

So one of our roles as managers is to find talent that's going to prove this really good, but they're just missing the music, find them from the beginning and collaborate with them. And then if they start working with a really big artist after they become big, it's because we have been a really good salesman. They're managers and we build a relationship with the management or with the label. or with a publisher and they flagged that they're working on the next project in the sound that our producers could do really well. So that's what we basically approached them. And then we set up the session and then it's a matter of hoping that they write a very good thing and it comes out. Yeah.

And does that happen that then other producers or artists approach you, based on success of the work of the previous artist you worked with? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it happens a lot that we receive requests from managers or labels or publishers to have sessions with our clients. Sometimes at this level, it reaches a level that you are more excited when something comes to you. because you're like, oh, the work that I've put like has

kind of like rooted into a tree and now people are approaching us instead of us approaching people. But I think it's a thing of both ways. It just depends. Yeah. And as you said, trying to find talent. How do you actually do that?

Is it just you listen into music and sounds good so we might approach him or how does this work? Yeah, there's a few different ways. So sometimes by having meetings with people like scouts or people like work at labels or people that work at publishers or other managers and other management companies, they flag with us. There's these new artists that I think you should listen to or we are looking into signing this new project. What do you think about it? And then the other way is there are two other ways. One of them is more traditional. The other one is, a bit more modern. The more traditional one is going to gigs. So I go to a lot of concerts, a lot of showcases, a lot of gigs around London of like emerging talent, see if I can find someone that's like worth a session with our clients. And then the other more modern way is TikTok. So I spend a lot of time on TikTok.

looking for new artists or people that I think could be good to have a session with. I prefer the more traditional way of going to concerts. Yeah, I was going to say it may be a bit dangerous on TikTok. If you keep scrolling and then, you know, algorithm starts showing you, I don't know, get videos or whatever and you spend hours. Yeah, yeah. I actually have a couple of accounts, different accounts on TikTok. one for like puppies and the other one for work. And if you find someone that will be worth getting in touch with,

are actually you the person who speaks with them or tries to pitch the services to work together? Yeah, it depends. I usually pass it first through my managers. So I say, hey, I found this. What do you think about it? If they like it, then they're like, yeah, yeah, you can approach. That sounds good.

find out who the manager is if they have one, find out who they are signed with if there's a label involved. And if no, just DM them. Like, send them an email, send them a message, like, whatever. It's needed. But yeah, yeah. And have you got a dream artist that you would want to work with or your company to work with?

Oh, yeah, 100%. Rosalia. Sorry, who is it? Rosalia. 100% I'm sorry I don't know I don't know her

I don't know Oh you know Oh you know It's fine Rosalia You know her for sure 100% She's a Spanish

She's a Spanish artist She's now really big She's collaborated with Bud Bunny And like with J-Bobbing and like really really big people But yeah I think

One of my team sessions would be To put one of my clients with like to write with Rosalia. Is it because she's your favorite artist or why is that? I think it's because I really admire her work and I admire the project and her team. I think yeah, I think she's become what she is right now, which she is massive at an international level for who she is and her work ethic

and the work ethic of her team. I think it's the most inspiring projects I've ever seen in the last few years. So, yeah. Okay. I will have a look afterwards. Maybe I will be ashamed that I said that I didn't know. Oh, yeah. Don't worry.

I will send her to you. No, don't worry. Don't worry. You're probably like, I mean, there's so many artists out there that are so massive and I probably don't know about. Yeah. So, and what will be your dream role? Or what is the, would you want to be producer or what role would you want to do in the future?

I would love to become a producer and manager and have my own company. That's kind of like my goal for the next five years or less than that. To be, to have my own company and have my own clients, my own roster. And that's my, that's my dream. And I'm not sure if that's going to be. be correct, but I thought when I looked at your profile on LinkedIn, don't you have a company or something like that? Or am I wrong? It's a project. I think it's a project that I

build during the pandemic that I put it in LinkedIn. I think as one like entry of like work that I've done in the last few years. I don't have any, my own company yet. I have the logo and I have the name, but I haven't set it up yet. it's for the future but it's all about manifesting yeah yeah well fingers crossed and so I guess

you still need to kind of climb the ladder to get the experience and then to start it or yeah yeah exactly

that's the idea get the contact get the connections and and meet as many people as I can and build a really really nice roster and then once it's ready then just continue doing my own thing so yeah yeah i have to ask you mentioned a roster a few times i don't know what it is yeah the roster is basically a catalog so it's like it's like your clients your producers yours right it's like when when a manager has like

different artists that work with like he works with that's kind of like the same thing roster is like catalog of your client. Yeah. And does your company focus on specific genre or it's broad or how does it work with this? It depends on, you're usually focused on a genre because it's the music that you're usually passionate about. So the company I'm working with is two different managers with two different. they don't work in two different genres.

Like one of them works in the pop world, like anything pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, anything pop. And then the other one, it works more in R&B, hip hop, soul, indie, like this kind of a world. So it's usually genre focus because that's where your contacts are. For example, I would never be able to have a producer. Well, I would be able to, but I would have to start from scratch.

to have a client that produces rock, because I've never worked in the rock industry. I don't know how it works. I don't know any people there. So it would be a very challenging client. But yeah, yeah. And is it also focused on a specific language, like English and Spanish? It depends. It depends, because nowadays, like, it's so easy to just collaborate with everyone knows English so even if they're writing in Spanish obviously they would have to be a song white or a topliner that knows the Spanish in the

room but the producer can be like just English speaker and and work with different so it's it's it's all about the music I guess it's all about how good they are yeah and also when we spoke before about when you discover a new talent and you try to pitch to them to work together. Are you like in a position that you need to make a great pitch so that they choose you over others or are in a position of you kind of giving them hope for the future that will help them to go higher if you know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's all about how convincing you are and how much you believe in the client

that you have. especially if they're in a developing stage. If it's a producer that hasn't had many songs out with other artists, they haven't worked with really big names, then obviously it's a lot of work of trust and belief in the music that they make and help them climb the ladder little by little. If it's a more developed producer, then obviously the credits that they have speak by themselves.

So it's easier to approach a bigger artist if the producer has already had many, many big cuts. But yeah. Yeah. And actually, do you have a favorite producer or someone who's your inspiration or kind of role model? To be fair, there's a few that I really like. I really like the work of this, the producer of Rosalia, of this girl. in the second album and her second album

he's called El Ginchot. He's incredible. He's really talented. There's other, like, well, there's like legends like Max Martin or Ryan Tether and they're like the biggest,

biggest producers in pop. Like Max Martin has produced from like Blinding Lights of the weekend to Britney Spears. So it's, they're really, really big. They're massive. It would be a dream to work

with some of them. But there are so many at emerging levels as well that I'm really, that I really, they really inspire me. Some of the producers that we work with at the roster that I'm working with right now, they are incredible. And yeah, I think it's, yeah, I think there's so many of them that they're not given the credit that they deserve. Yeah, I will also Google them afterwards because I don't know their names. Yes, I also know. As we will be approaching the end, are there some questions that I didn't ask or something that you would like to share? No, it was very fun.

Yeah. But a few final questions. Where can people follow you or get in touch with you? Yeah, LinkedIn or Instagram. To be fair, sometimes it's even easier Instagram. In the music industry, we use it a lot. We use it even more than LinkedIn. It's just literally my name.

To text to the artists on Instagram. Yeah. To follow them and we just DM them. Obviously, if it's a really big artist, then no, because they are not going to reach you. They have so many requests. If it's a manager, if it's a publisher, if it's a label person, A&R, like just DM them because we are all there like in Instagram we'll leave in Instagram sometimes on take folk but most but I wasn't going to say that I would be afraid that

it gets lost among I don't know hundreds of other messages that they must receive but I guess you cannot text it depends on how many such as big stars yeah it depends on who you are messaging if it's an emerging artist in a very low level then obviously they're going to read it. And if not, if it's a, usually if it's a ministry person, either LinkedIn or Instagram. Yeah.

And then a final question, a bit deeper one, which is that if you had attention of the whole world, of all the people, and you could share some important message or some kind of wisdom, what would you tell them? I think I go back to the same piece of advice that they gave me for the music industry.

I think the world could use a bit more kindness and a bit less egos. I think you just have to, no matter what you have done, no matter what you have achieved, you have to keep humble and you have to keep being kind to others, especially if they're starting in their careers because everyone has been there. and you never know who that person is going to be in a few years so you better treat them right because they might become your boss

at some point or someone you need something for so yes yeah that's all great I agree cool I think we can then finish it for today and thank you amazing thank you so much it was a pleasure

and great to find out more about music industry. As it was visible, I didn't know much, and I learned quite a lot. No, well, that's good. Cool. Thank you, Elena. And wish you good luck in your career. Thank you.

Thank you. Likewise. Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback, or share any ideas. for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.