Produced By - Warrior's Resilience: Battling PTSD and Inspiring Others | #58: Darren Pallatina

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello Darren, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thomas, thanks for having me, mate.

Starting point is 00:00:24 So, Darren, can you please introduce yourself? Yes, so my name is Darren Palatina. I'm 39 from the UK. currently I've got a three-year-old daughter and currently working as a graphic designer specialising in LinkedIn profile optimization. So yeah, I've got a past history with military, been through the military for 14 years

Starting point is 00:00:47 and then decided to finally take the leap into graphic design in January 2020. That's quite interesting career change. Yeah, well, it's a big jump. I wanted to do graphic design for 15 years. When I was younger, I wanted to do graphic design, but then at the same time, before joining the Army,

Starting point is 00:01:11 I was in a punk band for nine years. In a punk band where I was doing drugs and wanted to get out of that scene. So I ended up joining the Army just to get away. And then obviously the Army then took over my life and it was 15 years down the road before I actually managed to get around and become a graphic designer.

Starting point is 00:01:29 So starting with your background or with your childhood. Can you tell us more about where do you come from? Yeah, so I live just outside of Shrewsbury now in UK. But I was actually born in Shrewbury. So over the years I've done a whole 360 degrees back to where I started. When I was a lot younger, I did live up out in the countryside, up in what we re-referred to as up in the stick. or out in the sticks.

Starting point is 00:02:02 You know, childhood, I always, I raced motorcross for, oh God, how long was that? Seven, eight years. We used to, you know, as kids, we used to build tree houses, go hunting. You know, the normal countryside childhood, really, coming up. My mom and dad were together until I was 11, and then they divorced when I was 11. So then that kind of changed the trajectory of my life. And so we obviously moved out the countryside into a town. that's when I started to get mixed in with the wrong crowd and getting to the drugs and that kind of led on from there really.

Starting point is 00:02:36 And as you mentioned, you were in a punk or rock band. What was your role in the band? I was a bass player. I played bass for. I actually played bass for nine years. The band went, well, about 10 years I played bass for. The band was going for about nine years. We had an 11-track album.

Starting point is 00:02:54 So we recorded an album. We did. Oh, bloody hell. must be four UK tours, three or four UK tours. Oh, really? Yeah, loads of local gigs and everything. So we were doing pretty well, but it was, you know, we were very young at the time. You know, like when the band ended, I was 22 when I joined the army.

Starting point is 00:03:15 So, you know, nine years before that, you know, what would have been 14, 15 years old when I started the band? And back then, did you see it as your career? I enjoyed the band I really enjoyed I loved it but the problem was like I'm very driven and motivated and I kept

Starting point is 00:03:39 trying to drive forward but it's very difficult when you've got other band members if you like who have got similar ideas and not so similar ideas and different priorities so you're kind of trying to move forward

Starting point is 00:03:56 with something that is very difficult to move. You know, so I think if you're going to be in a band, you've got to all be, you all need to be in the same mindset. And at the time, I was, like I said, I used to do a lot of drugs when I was younger. I used to be, you know, ecstasy, speed, cocaine. But my guitarist and my drummer was more cannabis. So they were downers and I was uppers and I was always trying to be the motivated one, you know. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:24 And was it the drugs? Because it's in a, you know, was it specifically in the, your band or is it common in this music industry in general? I think drugs in general are pretty common. But I came from a motocross background. I raced motocross. We did BMX dirt jumping, mountain biking. I was a downhill mountain biker. the people I used to mix with when I was a lot younger.

Starting point is 00:04:59 We were always drinking, always smoking, always doing drugs. You know, the normal, I say normal teenage stuff, but probably not normal for some people. You know, and then we got into like the clubbing scene. You know, I was a little bit older. Got into the clubbing scene and that just pushed it even further into the drugs. And, you know, like, I don't regret it as such, but I would never do it again now.

Starting point is 00:05:21 You know, I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I did drug. for the from the point of view where I know what to look out for now if my daughter was getting in with the wrong crowd or if she was you know obviously not three years old but when she's a bit older I know the the effects of drugs now you know like dilated pupils and stuff like that so you know you can always keep an eye out for that now so now as as you are older and you are parent is there some piece of advice that you would share with

Starting point is 00:05:54 whether younger people or parents, you know, to avoid kids being into drugs? I think as she gets older, obviously I think the best thing to do with kids once they get to like, you know, especially their teenage years, is to get them into, you know, sports, things like martial arts or horse riding or biking or something along those lines to keep them occupied. Because when kids get bored or teenagers get bored, they start to look for some form of entertainment. and unfortunately that can lead down the drug route as well. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:30 So then what was that switch that made you to stop with the band and join the army? So for a couple of years I was trying to get out of the drug scene and I kept trying and trying and every time I tried I get pulled back in and obviously with the band it was like the band was in that scene. So it was very difficult to. I wasn't so much a drug addict. It was just a habit in terms of you know, just being part of that environment.

Starting point is 00:06:58 And then I started to get really bad health issues, like skin problems, and I noticed it was drugs. So basically I have real bad, you know, dermatitis on the hands where your skin breaks and dries out. It's like eczema. And I had really bad eczema of dermatitis on my hands. Sorry, wasn't that because of those drugs? Yeah, well, I didn't know at the time that it was because of,

Starting point is 00:07:23 of the drugs, but I put it down to working in construction because at the time I was also working as a labourer on a construction site. And there was a period over three weeks where I didn't take any drugs for about three weeks. And my hands started clearing up and started recovering. And then one night I went out and I took some exercise, so pills. And the next morning, my hands were back as bad as they were. So that made the connection to, okay, that's, it's the drugs that's causing it. And then at that point, I was like, I've got to get out at this scene. So I was like, I need to, you know, get away from drugs, sort my life out.

Starting point is 00:08:02 And then I moved in, I moved back in with my mum who lived out in the countryside. At that time, then she'd moved back to the countryside. So I moved up there to get away from the drugs. And I said, I'm going in the army. So I just trained for six months, started running, getting fit, training every day, eating healthy, hydrating. And my health got a lot better. my fitness picked up and then, yeah, I signed up to the army. And that was it for 14 years after that in the military.

Starting point is 00:08:28 But I feel like you make it sound kind of that was easy switch, but was it actually easy or how did you find it? I think for me it was relatively easy because I wanted to get away so bad. I think if you've really got to want to change, if you're going to change. Like I was speaking to my therapist, my hypnotherapist for the PTSD. SD thing the other week and we were talking about, you know, like, you can't just offer somebody hypnotherapy if they don't want to change themselves. Like, it doesn't work. I think because I was in the mindset for like two years before making that move, for two years I just wanted to get away

Starting point is 00:09:07 anyway. So it was very easy for me to make that switch. And what about the rest of the band? So shortly after I left, the band fell apart. My guitarist then moved to Germany. I can't remember whereabout and Johnny moved to, but then my drummer joined another band locally to where he lives, you know, so they carried on going there. I don't speak to them anymore. We didn't keep in contact. And like, to be honest, if it's a potential risk of me getting pulled back into that scene, I wouldn't want to go there anyway, so it's easier for me to just avoid it now. And looking back at it, is there something you regret when it comes to band

Starting point is 00:09:50 and, you know, these conditions with the drugs. Not really, no. Like, you know, my health's good now. You know, I'm in good shape. My diet could probably be better. Obviously, we've got a three-year-old daughter, so our sleep could definitely improve as well, but that'll improve over time, you know.

Starting point is 00:10:09 But, no, I don't think I regret anything at all, you know. And with the choice of joining the army, I understand that, you know, it gives you discipline, change of life and everything, but when you're thinking about just changing different job or start in some kind of sport or just a different route? Well, at the time, I was already into mountain biking and a motocross, and even with that, I was still getting pulled into, you know, the band scene was the biggest part of my life at the time. so that was really the thing that kept pulling me back. So if I was at the time, if I was a lot more financially stable,

Starting point is 00:10:52 I would have probably moved to a different town anyway, which would probably have the same impact and resolve the issue. Okay. And then so with the army, can you take us more through the journey? Because as someone who's never been to, you know, through the army, don't really know what is it like. So introduce it to us. something. So the first thing, so when people hear about the military, they always say, I had the same

Starting point is 00:11:20 thing. It was like people saying, oh, they're going to brainwash you and, you know, you're going to lose your head and all this. And they don't brainwash you as such. You get conditioned and trained to deal with certain situations. But I remember, so I've been training for like six months and I joined, initially I joined the infantry, which is just frontline, you know, the guys at the front there. And I joined the Welsh Guards and as soon as I got to North Yorkshire, so Catrick is where they train and I got there off the bus

Starting point is 00:11:53 and literally the second I got off the bus it was just run everywhere. You didn't have time to walk. You had like all these massive bags with you and they were just like run, run, run, run. Jesus, when you just got it like give me a minute, you know, so that was a real big culture shock I think culture shock might be the right word

Starting point is 00:12:14 but it was definitely a shock to the system you know going from running as I want to at the speed I wanted to getting off a bus with bags just sprinting everywhere I went through 13 weeks so it was 20 at the time I think it was 26 weeks of training and week 13 I tore my cartilage in my left knee so I got a knee injury and it was a real bad injury

Starting point is 00:12:37 I couldn't keep running couldn't keep training So I went into what they call holdover, which is where you get into a recovery part of the training unit. And after a couple of weeks in there, I thought, you know what, I want to come back, I want to leave and rejoin as something else where I can get a trade out of it. Because infantry don't typically have a trade unless you're specialising in radio or something like that. But I decided to leave and then rejoin a regiment called the Royal Engineers. So they were combat engineers. And with them, I could join, I'd already got like eight years in construction. So I was doing tiling, flooring, you know, decorating and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:13:18 And there was a trade in the Royal Engineers called a building and structural finisher. So that meant I could go in there doing tile and flooring. And the stuff I was used to doing, but also trained to be a soldier, as well as working with like bridges, explosives, you know, and start to have a bit of fun with it as well. It was hard work. But going through there then, I ended up going through. basic training, which was, I think that was 14 weeks. I went through basic training. And then I gone through phase one training, phase two training, which is my engineers

Starting point is 00:13:51 course, then into phase three, which is my trade training. And then after that, then I went straight to my unit. And within, I think within four months to getting to my unit, I was then deployed to Oman on a construction tour to help build a Where is it? Oman. It's over by Jordan.

Starting point is 00:14:13 Yeah, Oman, yeah. Yeah, it's over by Jordan. I went over there. It was not a war zone or anything like that. It was a construction tour. So we go there, we're building an Air Force base. And then that was seven, I think it was there for seven months. And then...

Starting point is 00:14:30 Was that something that you wanted to do to go to work to a different country or was it they told you and you had to? So you have to do, you have to deploy where they say you're deploying. But I really wanted to start seeing the world. That was my goal with the military is to get away from the drugs, changing my life and start seeing, you know, more places other than just the UK. So as soon as the opportunity came to go to Oman, I was like, yeah, let's, you know, there was no resistance.

Starting point is 00:15:00 I was just like, yeah, I'm ready to go. because at the time I was single, didn't have kids. You know, I just wanted to start seeing a bit more, you know. So, yeah, I was happy to go. And then, like I said, I was there for about seven months. And then when I came back, obviously, we do a lot of training back in UK, Cold War training and all sorts of stuff like that. And then the opportunity came later on in 2000 and, I think it was beginning of 2010.

Starting point is 00:15:29 we got the well we got a notification saying that our unit was going to Afghanistan so that was another opportunity to travel you know I'd already been to Jordan, Oman, Cyprus at that point and then they said you know the the unit was going to be deploying as IED search teams so an IED search team was basically bomb disposal effectively so you know the the roadside bombs and all that sort of stuff

Starting point is 00:15:58 an iED the column iED so improvised explosive device and the iED search teams what they would do they would be the guys at the very front um searching for those those bombs in the road and that's what our job consisted of for for seven months in afghan so we would be there to just find the bombs clear the roads clear the compounds and that sort of stuff so that was the the last tour that's where obviously on that that tour that i went on that deployment that was where all the PTSD came from and all the problems that we faced. And if you compare this last tour to Afghanistan to the previous one, was it more dangerous than the previous one because of the nature? Yeah, yeah, it comes to the nature. So when we went to Oman, there was, we didn't take weapons, there's no rifles, we didn't take

Starting point is 00:16:44 anything like that, because there's no, there's no risk of conflict. You know, we were able to get the bus, going to the town, go around the shopping, you know, shopping centers, the supermarkets, go to the barbers, get haircuts. You know, so. The Roman was really safe. So would it be almost, don't want to say, regular life, but closer to the normal life? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, much closer to normality, really.

Starting point is 00:17:09 But Afghan was, yeah, Afghanistan was just a completely different thing altogether. You know, you were there in a country where people wanted you dead. You know, you had casualties, you had jobs that you had to do, you had bombs to deal with. You know, there was a lot that went on in that deployment. Yeah, and just briefly, I also wanted to ask you, because before you join the army, you try to prepare yourself physically. So, thanks to your preparation, did you find it easier afterwards or did you wish that you trained even more? No, I wish I'd train more.

Starting point is 00:17:47 So I trained, I think a lot of people go into the military with the minimum requirement of fitness. so you know that you've got to run a mile and a half in this amount of time. You've got to be able to do, you know, X amount of press ups and sit-ups. And I think so many people, the problem is you train. And I did the same. You train to meet that minimum standard. But when it comes to the job, like Afghanistan, we were carrying, I think, around 70 to 80 kilos on our back. You know, it's a hell of a weight.

Starting point is 00:18:22 And then you might have to walk, you know, two or three months. miles to a job and you've got so crazy weather right yeah 70 degrees heat you know in Celsius you know so it's really hot you've got a long walk and you're carrying your body weight on your back you know so nothing can really prepare you for that I know the military do further training you know like combat fitness tests and you know tactical advance into battle or tabs they call it you know so you do train with weight but yeah the training with the minimum fitness level doesn't wouldn't come close like if you if you're only training for that minimum standard and you suddenly had to go out to afghan you wouldn't you

Starting point is 00:19:04 wouldn't make it you wouldn't survive because you know not saying you'd die but like you wouldn't be able to carry that weight for that amount of time and can you say what is maybe approximate ratio of people who sign up for the army and don't make it I wouldn't know I wouldn't know to be honest it's it's a difficult one because I I know, like, if you were to join, like, the parachute regiment or Marines, there's a much, much higher fail rate. And if you were to join, like, the Navy as a diver, that's another one. I joined the Navy as a diver after the Army.

Starting point is 00:19:40 That was, you know, a very high level of fitness again. But I wouldn't know how, what the ratio is. Like, quite a few people get through. But, like, it's important to note that when you go through, they, they build you up fitness-wise over a, you know, a three-month or six-month period, depending on what you're joining. But, you know, you do see some people that join with minimum fitness,

Starting point is 00:20:08 and then within three or four weeks, they're injured, they're in, you know, rehab, holdover, whatever it be. And, you know, some people just don't get through at all. You know, some people I've come across some people that have been in, you know, recovery for like 12 months or more, you know, trying to recover from, back injury or knee injuries or ankle injuries, whatever it be, you know. So, yeah, I wouldn't know what the ratio is, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:20:31 But it's got quite a high pass rate. And also if you compare yourself to other people who join the army, would you say that you were on a similar level or maybe you were better when it comes to fitness or under? So I was good at running naturally because I'm not, I haven't got any weight on me. Obviously, all the drugs that I took throughout the years that was keeping me. my weight down. I haven't got weight problems anyway, but it kept my weight down, which meant when I got off the drugs and started to recover from that, it was very easy for me to pick running up. And where my mum lived, she lived in the countryside, so it was at the bottom of a really long

Starting point is 00:21:11 hill, and it was about a mile to the top of the hill where there was a junction, like a turning. So my training for running was a mile uphill, a mile back downhill. So I got the hill training in it as well, where a lot of people are running on the flat. so I feel that for those who trained to the minimum standard I was better equipped for strength in running because of that hill that hill that I used to go and train on yeah so good yeah and then so then coming back to your experience in Afghanistan

Starting point is 00:21:43 can you expand on you know what happened there or what give you the experience that you went through yeah so obviously we were there to clear bombs roads. You know, there was quite a few times where there'd be some sort of firefight there. We weren't really there for firefighting. We were there to clear roads. So we had an infantry unit with us to give fire support when we were clearing roads and clearing campaigns. But during our deployment, you know, we had some friends that were injured. A couple of been killed. You know, there was a guy called rifleman James Steele. He was in an infantry

Starting point is 00:22:24 unit. We had to recover his body parts because he stepped on an IED. He died. But we had to go and recover as an IED search team part of our responsibility is to go and recover any parts, body parts, weapons, search equipment, you know, and things like to gather like intelligence as well to find out what kind of ID had been used, you know, the device. And that's what we were there to do. So, you know, we recovered his body parts. And, you know, we had quite a few things like that. Like 2012, we had a mortar, got fired at our base. You know, mortars, they're like kind of like rockets, if you like.

Starting point is 00:23:06 But that came through our tent roof. So where our tent was on base, we went in the tent at the time. We were out. But it landed, it hit our tent. It went straight into our tent. You just blew our tent to pieces, you know. So it's, yeah. you know, quite a few close calls.

Starting point is 00:23:23 You know, if that rocket or that mortar would come in 24 hours earlier, that it would have killed us all because we were all asleep in the tent at the time, you know, because we just got back from R&R. So, you know, they were close. But then the PTSD thing, obviously that builds up over time, all the stuff that goes on. But the main event that took place really for me with the PTSD was we went to do a job. And when you're walking to a job, you're always in single file.

Starting point is 00:23:50 So you don't spread wide, you just go in single track. And I was the last man at the back of the patrol. And where we stopped in a field, I stopped next to this little Afghan house, like a little hut. And a family of three came out with dad and two kids. And it was a boy and a girl, the two kids. And the girl came up to me. And she was trying to ask me for something, but because I didn't understand what she was saying, I just didn't know what she was talking about.

Starting point is 00:24:17 But she lifted her sleeve up on her arm. And she had a septic infection from the wrist to the shoulder. So it was completely septic all the way down. So she was going to die of infection. And she was probably about four years old. And I radioed ahead because we had a doctor at the front. And that was probably like three or four hundred meters ahead. And I radioed ahead and said, oh, you know, we've got a young girl here.

Starting point is 00:24:41 She needs medical help. And they just said, oh, leave her there. You know, we've got a job to do. Just leave her. So we had a lever there with this infection at four years old. And that was the, for me at the time, that was, that was the trigger for my PTSD because you're there to help. I know you're just leaving that kid to die, you know. So, you know, you'd think with all the other stuff, like people getting blown up and shot and killed.

Starting point is 00:25:04 And you'd think all that would cause a PTSD, but it was just that one, that one situation or that one event, which really sent me off the edge. And that was the day then at that point, that was coming into 2012. And that was the day where I said, I'm leaving. I'm leaving the army because I was done at that point. Well, that because you still had unwind this specific situation or did it compound with other stuff as well? I don't think

Starting point is 00:25:33 the other events compounded as such because every time I used to talk about it, they never bothered me. I could talk about it quite freely. But when it came to that event with that girl, as soon as I'd start talking about that, before I had hypnotherapy, I couldn't talk. about that situation without breaking down. You know, I'd be an absolute mess.

Starting point is 00:25:53 You know, and the problem I had was before I started hypnotherapy, obviously my daughter's three now. And, yeah, got to the point where I'd be playing with my daughter and it would just start coming back, you know, constant reminder every day about what I've gone on in Afghanistan because my daughter was approaching that age, see. So I thought I was okay for quite a few years, you know, for a very long time. I thought I was okay for

Starting point is 00:26:18 I don't know 10, 8 to 10 years I thought I was okay you know and I was managing well and stuff like that and then just one day it all just came back

Starting point is 00:26:27 Mm-hmm And is there some kind of support available in when you are on a mission? Um Not at the time not so much when you were on deployment you had like the Padre who was you know they were part of the

Starting point is 00:26:43 the church The military church if you like you could always go and talk to them if there was issues and if they felt that there was a major threat to anything like suicide or anything like that they would report it you'd probably get sent home from deployment at that point but at the time there wasn't a great deal of support

Starting point is 00:27:02 and even back on base at the time PTSD was still it was recognised but it wasn't very well dealt with you know there were means of support for people with PTSD but it wasn't as good as it is now. And like I went to the doctors talking about, you know, I was struggling and everything that was going on and they said if you go down with PTSD now and you're diagnosed PTSD,

Starting point is 00:27:36 officially diagnosed, you could get medical discharge and at the time I didn't want to leave the military. I sort of like 50-50 or whenever I wanted to leave or not and I wanted it to be on my term so I didn't go down the route with being fully diagnosed with PTSD at the time and that didn't come until later, so. And what about your colleagues at, you know, whether mission or in the army,

Starting point is 00:28:03 is it, how come on is it, you know, to have people in me? So I've got a friend who was on my team Dave, I won't say his last name because I don't want to give his name away, but Dave, he he was always the guy that was mentally robust, he was in good, you know, really strong guy, always

Starting point is 00:28:21 toned, always in the gym and you'd think that nothing could get, you know, if you met him, you'd think that nothing could bother him. And when I started feeling at the time, I didn't know it was PTSD, but when I started feeling like things were coming on and I started to get

Starting point is 00:28:37 short-tempered and quite snappy, I phoned him and I was like, man, I don't feel right, you know, I'm struggling. And he said on the phone, he said, yeah, I am too. And he told me he was struggling. And just hearing that he was struggling made me feel a little bit better because it knew then I wasn't on my own. Like the conversation didn't really go much further than that, but it just gave me a bit of reassurance knowing that, you know,

Starting point is 00:29:02 it wasn't me just being a weak mind. It was, you know, causing problems throughout a couple of other people in my team as well. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 Tips on How to Succeed in Your Creative Career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. And just as a side note, it's something I've been always curious about. what do you do when you're on a mission during the day when you are not out?

Starting point is 00:29:48 What is there that you can do to spend your time? It depends really. So obviously when you complete a job, then what you've got to do then is get all your equipment ready for the next job. Because as soon as a job comes up, you've got to be out, you know, out straight on the ground straight or, you know, within a couple of hours. So we first of all get all our equipment, sort of make sure we've got new batteries in the search equipment, make sure our ammunition. sort of clean rifle. That can take, you know, a good few hours itself. Obviously, making sure you've got things like food rations, water, you know, so you can just pick your kit up and go. Then after that's sorted then, you spend most of your time either working out in the gym,

Starting point is 00:30:27 reading magazines, you know, making games up of some sort, you know, it depends, anything to entertain yourself really. You know, you could take laptops, although they didn't last very long because of like dust and stuff like that. So, you know, you have to make sure you're not carrying around in the dust and stuff like that. But, you know, you still add like internet connection because they'd have like a satellite on your base, on your, on your patrol base. So the door is, well, in most of them, there'd be a satellite there.

Starting point is 00:30:57 So you can get a bit of internet connection as well. You'd have like satellite phones so you can call home. But yeah, most of the time, you kind of just sitting around waiting, just trying to entertain yourself until the next job comes up. Yep. And so then coming back to your experience, did you decide to leave the army after the mission or did it take longer before you made final decision? So obviously that event with that girl, that was my trigger point where I was like I can't carry on like this. And obviously we still had a few months to do on our tour.

Starting point is 00:31:32 You know, I think we still had like two or three months left to do our to complete the tour itself. And then when I got back, that was, I did. didn't realize it affected me so much. That was just like, you know, that was an event that really pissed me off, like really pissed me off big time. And that was the point where I thought, I want to leave because if you, if you're there to help people and you don't help people, then what's the point in being there? But then once I got back from deployment, obviously when you first get back, you're still pumped of adrenaline. So emotions don't really play a part. And PTSD for me didn't play a part or anything like that for about three months after I got home.

Starting point is 00:32:12 And then once I got home and the, you know, the dust started to settle. That's why I started to realize that I was struggling, you know, with, I was getting angry. I was very easily triggered. Like, loud noises wouldn't scare me, but they'd stress me out really bad. You know, if I was in a constant loud noise, I'd get really, really anxious. And at that point then, I was like, I need to, I need to leave the military because I can't cope, can't cope being in. and then when I did leave I started to work back in construction for a little while

Starting point is 00:32:44 and then because I was struggling with the PTSD then I was really struggling to be out of the military so I just wanted to go back in I was like I just need to go back in because I can't cope outside so I couldn't cope in and I couldn't cope out

Starting point is 00:32:58 and I thought going back in would help so at the time of going back in bear in mind I'd left the army I was married in the army as well and my ex-wife was injured in an IED blast her vehicle got hit by an IED and broke her back and when I was considering going back in because I was already, I think I was like 28,

Starting point is 00:33:24 28 years old, 28, 29 I was like, I don't want to go back in the army because I don't want to go back through you know wearing green kit out in the field carrying a lot of weight and stuff like that. I thought all I want to do is just have the structure of the military, but still have a bit of an easier life in a way, and the army is quite full on.

Starting point is 00:33:45 So I ended up joining the Navy. So I trained for, well, for 12 months. I trained, like, really trained hard. I was doing, you know, half marathons, triathlons. I was doing like 13 fitness sessions a week. I was really going hard. And it was to join. Compared to what I was doing.

Starting point is 00:34:04 Compared to the previous, compared to previous training, different. It was much, much hard. Because I knew, so the job I was trying to go for then at that point was what they call a mine clearance diver. So they're a diver that goes into the sea and they're there to clear like sea mines and stuff like that. And they do bomb disposal. And that was something that really interested me because we worked with the divers in Afghan as well because they're bomb disposal. And I knew that it was going to be hard to get in there because it's, you know, it was a very, very high level of fitness again.

Starting point is 00:34:36 So what I did then is I trained for 12 months. And then eventually I overtrained, really, because when it got to my selection, I was, you know, one of the ones at the front of the selection, I got onto course. And within six weeks of being on my diver's course, I started to have sinus problems with the water pressure. So that caused sinus injury.

Starting point is 00:34:58 And then that meant I couldn't dive anymore. So then what ended up doing in the Navy then is what they call a re-branch. So I retrained to do something else. And that was in the aviation. So I later started training to become an aircraft handler. So they work with the aircraft, you know, the marshals that guide the aircraft refueling, stuff like that. And I did that for like six years, five or six years. But the, remember I was saying, like, you know, constant noise used to get me really stressed.

Starting point is 00:35:25 And because we were working with helicopters, I was stressed all the time. I was really, really stressed, like constantly just on the edge. because of the noise. And yeah, at some point later on down the road, then my granddad died because I was on two weeks leave. And my granddad died at home and I tried to save him from a heart attack and he didn't make it. So that kind of pushed me even further than into depression, anxiety. The PTSD was really starting to kick off again. And then five weeks after that, my other granddad died.

Starting point is 00:36:00 So that just sent me in a complete spiral and that's when I really just lost it completely. I wasn't eating right. I wasn't doing any fitness. I wasn't sleeping. I was a mess at work. And that went on for quite some time. And that's where the anxiety started kicking in. I thought I was having heart problems because I used to have real bad chest pain. You know, my left arm were going now. I just couldn't breathe. I couldn't move. And I thought it was my heart. And then I went through for a period for, I think it was about six months of, you know, ECGs on my heart, like scans. cameras down my throat, x-rays, you know, all sorts of testing to see what was going on. And they couldn't find anything wrong.

Starting point is 00:36:41 They said I was absolutely fine. I was like, I'm not fine. There's something wrong. And one day, I couldn't breathe and I went into the doctor. I said, like, I need to see someone. And they said, we'll see the doctor now. And he said, I'll just take your t-shirt, lift your t-shirt up so I can listen to your heart again. I just broke down in tears.

Starting point is 00:37:03 I was crying. And he said, you're not ill. You're just struggling with anxiety. And that's the first time I understood anxiety properly. And it put me on, what's it called? Antidepressants. I went on antidepressants for, I think it was about eight or nine months. And they didn't do anything.

Starting point is 00:37:23 It's all like pills. Yeah, pills, yeah, yeah. It's a medication. And that just made me feel worse. You know, it gave me stomach issues. and I wasn't getting any better for nine months and I was just like one day I just woke up in bed and I was just like I'm done feeling like this

Starting point is 00:37:40 like I can't carry on like it so that's why I started looking into like meditation getting off the you know the medication itself the you know the antidepressants I pulled myself off them I said they're making me feel worse I started doing self-help books reading meditation and that helped quite a lot

Starting point is 00:38:00 you know did help a lot but it didn't fix the problem. There's some specific book that you remember that helped you? So I never liked reading. I hated reading. And I was just, I've just got to start reading books to try and get my mind, distract my mind.

Starting point is 00:38:19 And the first book I picked up was Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And it's a hell of a book. Like that book is, I think it's about 350 pages with very small font. And it was, it's a beast of a book and it took me about six months to finish it because I was only reading like 10 pages a day or trying to get into reading because it took me about six months to finish it but I was like I've got to finish it because what I didn't want to do then is start forming a habit of not finishing things you know so I started to make sure I finished that book before I went on to the next one and started meditation I used to listen to a lot of like zen music on on YouTube and once I started to understand how that helped, the first thing I wanted to attack really was the anxiety.

Starting point is 00:39:08 And I went online and I was looking for natural anxiety remedies. And there's a company, I think they're UK based. I don't think you get them anywhere else. But there's a company called CARMS, K-A-L-M-S, K-A-L-M-S, and they had a gelatin capsule and it had lavender oil. You know, lavender, the plant? And it had lavender oil in there. and they said it was really good for anxiety.

Starting point is 00:39:32 So I thought, I'll try some of them. And, you know, I wasn't going to overdose because it's natural, natural oils, you know. So I ordered some of them. I doubled dose. So I took twice as many as you meant to as a recommended dose. But then within six hours, I was like so calm, so relaxed. And I was just, I felt amazing. I was like, right, okay.

Starting point is 00:39:52 So the next thing I knew then, if I can get the anxiety under control, that would cause the chest pain to go away. And it did. And what I started doing then, I was like, right, the next thing I need to do now is get back in the gym. And I'd put on a bit of weight and I was out of shape. So I started to, I understood like habit forming and, you know, micro habits and stuff like that. And I was like, right, okay. So I didn't have any confidence going to the gym because I put so much weight on and I was so out shape.

Starting point is 00:40:21 And I knew that if I tried to go to the gym when it was busy, I wouldn't last very long because, you know, lack of confidence. So what I did then was I knew, like the gym at my unit, on my base, the gym was open 24 hours a day. You had a little key fob that you tap on the door and let you in. And I knew at 4 a.m. in the morning, the gym would be empty. So that would be my time to get there and start getting back into shape when nobody was watching. So what I did for a while was I would wake up at 4 in the morning, 4 a.m. And I would do that for a little while. I can't remember how long I did it before.

Starting point is 00:40:56 It was like 3 or 4 weeks. but I would get into the habit of just waking up at 4 o'clock in the morning. I'd sit in my room at 4 a.m. Just to get that habit and get consistent to waking up at 4. Then the next period after that, I would wake up at 4 a.m. And I was going to sit outside the gym, not in the gym, just outside the gym on my phone. And I just sit there for like 10, 15 minutes just to get that habit. And once I was consistent of that, I would then go in the gym and just sit on my phone for 10.50.

Starting point is 00:41:23 I mean, I'm building little habits at a time. And eventually I got to the point where, okay, I'm at the gym at 4 o'clock in the morning, nobody's there, I'm going to get on the cross trainer. You know, the cross trainer is because there's no impact. And I thought, I'm not going to push it, just get into the habit of doing something. I'd do like 10, 15 minutes on the cross trainer. And this whole period then took about, I think it was about 12 months, this journey of trying to build these habits.

Starting point is 00:41:49 It was a long time, but I was getting consistent, and that was the important part. And it wasn't very long after, once I got. in the gym and started doing some form of exercise. It didn't take very long to get back up to my level of fitness where I was at. I lost the weight. I got back up into good shape. I was meditating, reading books.

Starting point is 00:42:08 I really sort of myself out. Then it didn't get rid of the PTSD in the back range and I still had the triggers. But I was definitely getting on a recovery at that point. Yeah, I think what you said is great recipe, how to start with some habits. Because it's like what Jim's clear talks. about in atomic habits to start small rather than go fully in the beginning over, overdo it and then get discouraged. So it sounds like a good advice for someone.

Starting point is 00:42:40 Yeah, well, I think if I had gone day one and go right, four o'clock in the morning and I'm going to go in the gym, if I had gone and then tried to do 20 minutes on the treadmill or weight, so I would have hurt myself, damaged, mentally just, I'm not doing it again. Then your confidence is gone again and you're back at square one. So like anybody that's struggling, I always say, you know, get just start tiny, tiny habits. You know, if you've never ran before, get used to walking to the shop instead of taking the car. Once you do that, start, you've done that for two months.

Starting point is 00:43:11 Try to jog a little bit and walk and jog and walk and jog. And eventually you'll be able to jog to the supermarket, you know, and what you're doing and you're carrying your shopping back rather than putting it in the car. So you're doing a little bit of weight training at the same time without realizing. And over time you start to get from being somebody who doesn't run to be able to do a mile, two miles before you're doing 5K, 10K, you know, at that point. But it's all tiny little habits all the time. Yeah, and it might feel quite overwhelming if you think about it in the beginning, like a two big step. But if you start small, it's much easier to begin and start a new habit.

Starting point is 00:43:48 So then how did you, did you start treating PTSD somehow? after that. So no. So the funny thing is I put off, I heard about therapy. I knew meditation was keeping me to some sort of level, you know, level head, although I still had the triggers. I put off any kind of therapy for 12 years. I just didn't do it because I thought it's not going to help how speaking to somebody, you know, men don't talk. This is why I do my YouTube channel now, you know, about the PTSD. Because men don't talk. And I just, I was like, you know, what's the point going to see a therapist, they're not going to help. And it wasn't for like 12 years. And at the time of starting recovery on hypnotherapy, my daughter was a three year old. You know, so I've got,

Starting point is 00:44:38 on LinkedIn, I've got like set at the time, I got 17,000 followers. So I got quite a big follow. And I'm quite active on LinkedIn. My business is built on LinkedIn. But the, you know, I had gone for 11 and a half years being fine and then, or, you know, relatively fine. And then suddenly all that PTSD, like I said, the PTSD started coming back. And I didn't know why for like five months. I was a mess. Suddenly out in nowhere after 12 years, I was just an absolute wreck. And I couldn't figure it out.

Starting point is 00:45:11 So, you know, I'd be avoiding time being in the house. I'd go out for walks. I wouldn't be doing any work. I'd just, I'd be out of the house, just get out of the house. and, you know, get away. And, yeah, one day I was just playing with my daughter. And I was like, Jesus Christ, you're like the same age as that girl that we left in Afghan. And I realized then that she was my trigger now for the PTSD, you know, so that was the point then where I went in mind for five months.

Starting point is 00:45:40 Before that point of realization, for five months, I was starting to struggle. I came out on LinkedIn. I put a video out and I was like, like, like, you lot ain't going to expect this video this is what's happening i'm really struggling um you know i just came out on linkedin i was i had to say something because i knew that my connections knew something was wrong and uh yeah i came out on lincoln i said you know i was i was really going through a hard time and out of nowhere i had um i had nine other men in my connections reach out and say oh i don't know how you you came out publicly and

Starting point is 00:46:14 spoke about that because they're struggling as well but they can't talk about it don't know who to talk to. And I was like, man, this is a big problem. You know, many, many times, I didn't realize how big a problem it was, PTSD for men. And at the same time as those getting in contact, there's other guys. I had three therapists reach out and offering me help for free.

Starting point is 00:46:36 One was hypnotherapy, one was EMDR, and one was psychedelic trials. So I was like, right, well, obviously, like Dan Martin was my therapist, and he was the first one to reach out. He's a hypnototherapist. I thought, well, I'll take him up on his offer. I'll go through hypnotherapy first and see if it works. And what I did with the other two offers,

Starting point is 00:46:55 I passed them forward to people who need the help. So I just put a post that said, if you need EMDR, you want to try psychedelics, reach out to these guys. So I passed that forward. And yeah, I went through hypnotherapy. And the first session we had together was just a conversation because they want to try and pinpoint where the trauma took place. So it's not really a therapy session.

Starting point is 00:47:18 so she's more just having a chat. I knew what the problem was anyway, because I knew the trigger, but they have to go back to your childhood and, you know, talk through the whole end-to-end process or end-to-end journey. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:47:31 it was very clear that that girl was the trigger for PGSD. So when we did the second session, that was proper hypnotherapy. So we went into hypnotherapy. And literally, like, that one session solved everything. Like, it removed the whole, The whole problem were gone.

Starting point is 00:47:48 Like I came out of that session completely different. Like we've just completely fixed the problem that I had. Obviously, I can still think about it. You know, it's not like it's a forgotten memory, but it's no longer a trigger, and I can talk about it, and I don't get choked up, and I don't, you know, don't get emotional, even thinking about it, I don't get bothered by it anymore.

Starting point is 00:48:12 And I can't believe after 12 years of suffering that you could just turn it around in one session, just one hour like that, and it was just amazing, really, really amazing. Like, I know hypnotherapy doesn't work for everybody. I know not everybody, you know, for people who it does work for,

Starting point is 00:48:29 it might be five sessions, it might be ten sessions. But for me, it just undone it, like just instantly, you know, within the hour. Absolutely, like, mind-blowing. So is that something you would recommend people to try if they are struggling with similar issues? Yeah, I would definitely look at hypnotherapy because it's a weird process, but for people who don't know or understand the energy, like our bodies are energy.

Starting point is 00:49:01 I know to some people this sounds all like hippie, tree hugging type thing. But when we talk about energy in the body, obviously we've got atoms, energy, vibration, everything's in our body. when we have a negative impact, that negative impact gets stored in the body as negative energy and your body holds onto it. And for me, that was guilt. And that guilt was from leaving that girl behind. So that guilt then turned into anger.

Starting point is 00:49:27 And that's why I was triggered so easy. But when we went, that guilt was in my chest and my stomach all the time. It was really in my chest a lot. And when we were going through hypnotherapy, I could feel that pressure. go from my chest to my stomach and throughout the session it went into my legs eventually moved into my legs so we were moving the energy around the body and um when i came out of that session my legs for two weeks my legs were numb like it was a weird feeling like i was just constantly spaced out

Starting point is 00:49:59 i felt really good but i was just like i didn't feel like me anymore you know i felt good and um when i got on the the next call because i calls her every two weeks i got on the next call with my therapist, Dan. And I was like, man, like, the world is different. Like, I feel at ease. I'm not angry at home. Me and my daughter are playing.

Starting point is 00:50:24 You know, the relationship's getting better. You know, even at a two point, two week mark, when I got back on that, that third call with him, I said my legs are still numb. You know, my legs just felt like, I can't even explain the feeling. It was weird. But, you know, like, I still get,

Starting point is 00:50:42 don't get me right. Don't, don't, oh, I'm not always happy. I still get pissed off sometimes, you know, if my daughter won't do it, she told, but that's like the normal every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you bloody told, you know, you're three years old, we've got to get out of the house,

Starting point is 00:50:55 eat your dinner, you know, the normal stuff that piss his parents off. I still get that up, which is just normal. But I'm not like, you know, six months ago, 12 months ago, if that happened, man, I'd smash the kitchen up. I'd destroyed, you know,

Starting point is 00:51:11 all the food cooking. I just take my anger out on stuff. I don't do that anymore. You know, so it's definitely done to show. Can you see a bit more? Can you see a bit more about the process of hypnotherapy? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:24 So the way Dan does it, so I think there's different techniques. And the technique Dan uses. So you obviously close your eyes, relax breathing, which sounds like you're going into meditation. And then you start to imagine, if I remember correctly,

Starting point is 00:51:40 you imagine a timeline. so you imagine your timeline, then you imagine you're floating above the timeline, and then you've got to go back in time to where that event took place. And then what you do then, you replay it in your mind. So you play the event in real time, and I think it was in colour, colour or black and white. I can't remember, but basically you either play it in colour forward in real time,

Starting point is 00:52:07 then you rewind to the beginning as fast as you can in black and white, or it might be play it in real-time black and white and reversing color. I can't remember which way around it was. But then you play it over and over and over. But with PTSD, like during that period, I could smell the dust that was in the desert. I could taste it. I could feel like I was reliving it.

Starting point is 00:52:28 And when you start to play it in real time, as if it was taking place initially, it was like a 10-minute replay. But as we were replaying it, I could replay it faster each time, as if it was getting easier to get through it. And then eventually, yeah, you just start to come out of it. Like it just gets moved in your mind and you see it from a different angle. And even like the perspective of, you know, because I blame myself for leaving that girl behind for so long, thinking it was my fault. I should have done more.

Starting point is 00:53:06 It was my decision. Changing the perspective of it wasn't me. It was the doctor's decision who was an officer. So they outranked me anyway, you know, the way above my rank. They made a decision to leave her there. So it wasn't even my decision. So it's not like I had any power to make that decision. But I could blame that doctor.

Starting point is 00:53:24 But I've also got to remember that she was three or four hundred meters in front. Probably didn't even understand the situation, how bad the situation was without infection. You know, maybe I could have said, no, like she's really in trouble. We're not going until we've got medical attention. Maybe I could have done a bit more, but ultimately it was my decision. But then at the same time, I don't know if another patrol could have come through a week later and gave her the medication she needed. I don't know. You know, so there's so many, you know, ifs, what ifs, you know, potentials that could have happened.

Starting point is 00:53:57 She might be okay. And I don't even know, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. I was curious to know more about the process. And do you still attend the sessions? Yeah, so we're doing, I think we're doing about another three or four follow-up sessions just to make sure everything's okay.

Starting point is 00:54:17 If there's anything that's triggering me at any point, then we'll probably go back into hypnotherapy for a session. But, you know, I've got my hypnotherapist, I've got him on WhatsApp. So I can always talk to him on WhatsApp. You know, we're quite close now in terms of contacts. and I'm going to keep in contact with him anyway. And if I come across from my channel with the PTSD conversations, if I find anyone who's really struggling,

Starting point is 00:54:44 I'll put them in contact with Dan as well to see if he can help them. But he normally deals with, what's it called, addiction clients, you know, so people who've got like addiction, alcohol addiction, stuff like that. But, you know, he understands that it's all to do with trauma. So obviously the add come from somewhere. You don't just accidentally fall into there. Something that's triggered it. So hypnotherapy is always insane going back to that event.

Starting point is 00:55:14 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just to be aware of time, I know we haven't spoken about your LinkedIn career. But with this experience, are you trying to, you know, help others or spread the word about it? Because I know you run your own podcast

Starting point is 00:55:34 or discuss this stuff. So do you want to tell us more about this? Yeah, yeah. So when I realized it was such a big problem, during the period of just before I started, hypnotherapy, I used to watch a lot of YouTube, you know, these guys that go around helping people with money, pay their rent, get them off the streets,

Starting point is 00:55:52 take them out from me, or get, you know, people who are doing good deeds. And I was like, man, I'd love to, you know, build a YouTube channel that helps men who you were struggling with trauma. So I started that up. And I had a friend, Benton, and he went through a lot. 20 years of PTSD.

Starting point is 00:56:10 He tried to commit suicide with a shotgun. I said to him, would you be interested in an interview? And he said, yeah, yeah, let's do it. So he was my first interview to start the channel off. And then after that, then I posted that. Another guy came forward and another one.

Starting point is 00:56:25 And now I've got my, I think I've got my fourth interview on there. I've got another one next week, one the week after. So it's starting to get momentum now. but the idea is at the moment just at the minute is to get stories collected to understand how big a situation is

Starting point is 00:56:42 what kind of events take place for men to face trauma so I'm just getting stories at the moment and trying to connect the people to therapists and then over time then it might develop into like a charity I don't know where we'll go with it yet but I mean it's still very small just trying to build it off

Starting point is 00:57:01 you know what it's like when you get started it's very very small and slow to start. So that's where I'm at with the YouTube stuff at the minute. So what's the channel called? A decision of power. Yeah, I will link to it in the showroom.

Starting point is 00:57:18 Do you want to promote your services on LinkedIn as well? Free marketing. Yeah. People can follow you and get in touch and find out more. Yeah, so what I do now is, obviously, I went into graphic design in January 2020 on LinkedIn. I started doing banners, like profile banners. Then we moved into full profiles for business owners.

Starting point is 00:57:49 So what we do, we fully optimise profiles, keywords, search engine optimization, all the design, all the copy. In order to increase their conversion rate for clients, for their clients, so when they get traffic to their profile, in a profile, it's a much better tool for inspiring or influencing a decision for clients to buy from them or to hire them. But recently we've started to focus more on working with coaches. So we build profiles for coaches now. So it doesn't matter what discipline. You know, wherever you're a fitness coach or personal development coach or business or finance. It don't matter. We just work with coaches now rather than business owners. But yeah, so what we're doing now with that is we're building profiles fully optimized, fully geared for conversion in order to help them

Starting point is 00:58:37 increase their client base. That's what we do. So is it something you enjoy being creative? Yeah, I do. Yeah, it's a good outlet as well because it keeps your mind occupied. At the time, I was still struggling with the PTSD and depression. So it was a really good outlet to sort of cope with that. But now I'm through that. It's just about building the business, you know, getting the best service we can for our clients, making sure we do the best job we can. You know, it's not about the money. It's just about, I like the challenge of results.

Starting point is 00:59:12 So if we can get our client's results, I love it. I just get such a buzz off seeing clients do well because of what we've done. You know, so yeah, I do really enjoy it now. Yeah. So before we finish, is there something that you would like to share

Starting point is 00:59:30 or something that I should have asked you and did not? Not necessarily, but like, there's a question. I always ask my interviewees at the end of an interview. And that's, you know, knowing what you know now, what would you tell your younger self who's going through the trauma? And it's always the same. You know, you'd go back and say it's going to be okay. You know, you're where you're meant to be.

Starting point is 00:59:55 You know, just keep going. It'll get better. You know, and I think that's what a lot of people need to understand. understand who are going through some kind of trauma, whether it's a relationship breakup, they might have lost family in an accident or veterans or first response or anything like that is especially men, because we don't talk,

Starting point is 01:00:15 I think it's important for everybody to reach out and at least try therapy, you know, because I think people would be very surprised about how it works. Obviously, it will never remove what, happened but it definitely fixes the problem in terms of how you think and feel about it you know so yeah i would always tell people um you know get that get help you know reach out speak to somebody because people will will listen yeah i agree and it was a great example when you mentioned that you post it on LinkedIn and so many people reach out to you that they go through that stuff as

Starting point is 01:00:57 well but haven't spoken to anyone with that it yeah yeah it does work you know you've always got somebody in your network who knows somebody else yeah and especially you know for example LinkedIn works that it can connect you with people you would never expect to speak with yeah yeah yeah it's great great there and I think I think then we can finish it for today. It was great to meet you. Thank you for opening. I'm sure that it probably wasn't easy for you to be vulnerable with us and share your story. I hope it will help others. I will link to all the resources that we discuss. And yeah, it was great to meet you and I wish you good luck with what you're working on. Thank you very much, Thomas. Thanks for having me.

Starting point is 01:01:45 Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - Warrior's Resilience: Battling PTSD and Inspiring Others | #58: Darren Pallatina

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