Proven Podcast - How to Make Customers Instantly Trust You & Your Product - Jeff Byers

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Jeff Byers turned a $1.8 million Department of Defense contract into a sports nutrition brand trusted by every NFL team, nearly every pro and college sports program in the country, and a long list of operators inside the world's most performance-driven environments, all while disrupting a $200 billion supplement industry where the average competitor is winning on hype and losing on quality. Now he is opening up the playbook on exactly how he did it. Charles and Jeff dig into the real mechanics of building a category-leading brand in a category where customers have learned to assume the worst, from the leadership rhythms that keep a fast-moving team aligned, to the three-strikes feedback system that turned company culture into a self-policing engine, to the supply chain standards that have cost Momentous seven figures in lost sales and bought them a reputation no competitor can match. Jeff lays out the three supplements that should anchor any stack, the brand-building flywheel that turned college sports dietitians into long-term distribution, and the specific habits that wreck more entrepreneurs' sleep than anything else. Together, they unpack why the cost of standing for something is far lower than the cost of pretending, why authoritative voices outperform paid social by a wide margin when you are playing a long game, and why the hardest people decisions get easier the moment you stop confusing kindness with avoidance. This is not a sales pitch for supplements. It is a field-tested breakdown of how to build a brand customers cannot afford to doubt. KEY TAKEAWAYS: Why the leader who shows up the same way after a loss as after a win is the only kind of leader anyone follows for long How a three-strikes feedback system strips ambiguity out of people decisions and lets a culture self-police without micromanagement from the top The single supply chain habit that separates a brand customers trust from one they tolerate, and why every batch matters more than every marketing campaign Why protein, creatine, and omega-3s are the only foundational stack that holds up under actual research, and why most everything else on the shelf is condition-specific at best How to take the high road with people you have to let go, and why your reputation in those moments compounds harder than any deal you will ever close KEY POINTS: 03:53 The Pete Carroll lesson on leadership: Jeff describes the trait that separates teams that win championships from teams that fall apart, while Charles ties it to the founders who lose their best people without ever knowing why.  05:40 The ball always gets snapped: Jeff lays out the mental model from the NFL trenches that maps directly onto how startups either move or die, while Charles pushes him on what that looks like the moment a decision starts going sideways. 11:34 Three strikes, no surprises: Jeff walks through the feedback system that forces real conversations instead of vague one-on-ones, while Charles connects it to the moment every founder realizes avoiding the conversation is the more expensive choice. 26:44 The Momentous three: Jeff names the only three supplements that have enough clinical research to justify daily use for almost everyone, while Charles digs into why the rest of the shelf is mostly noise. 35:22 The seven-figure standard: Jeff explains why Momentous walked away from $700,000 in lost sales in a single quarter rather than ship one questionable production run, while Charles unpacks what that level of discipline actually does to a brand long term. 39:25 The flywheel of trust: Jeff breaks down how Huberman, Tim Ferriss, Rich Roll, and eventually Arnold Schwarzenegger ended up behind the brand without a single influencer deal, while Charles challenges him on whether that playbook still works for a founder starting from zero.

Welcome to the proven podcast where we don't care what you think, only what you can prove. On this episode, Jeff Byers, the former NFL lineman, turned CEO of Momentus, who's built a brand trusted by elite military units, pro athletes, and high performers. Inside a $200 billion supplement industry plagued by hype and broken promises, lays out how to lead with relentless consistency, cut through the noise of a messy market, and earn trust where almost no one else has. The show starts now. All right.

Welcome back to the show. Jeff, I'm excited to have you on here, man. Yeah, likewise. So you've done some stuff that most people haven't done before.

You're going after a complete bazillion dollar industry, one that regrettably, I know a lot of it. For the four or five people who don't know of what you've done both professionally in the corporate world, but also in the professional sports world,

can you kind of tell us a little about who you are and what you're going on? Yeah. I'm Jeff. Byers, I'm the CEO and co-founder of a company called Momentus. We're leading nutritional supplement in sports nutrition company. My background is a bit different and unique. I had an incredible opportunity. I played four years in the NFL. I was an offensive lineman journeyman. I say I did a lot of practicing because I did do a lot of practicing, and I was lucky enough to play in a handful of games

and all that. But if you know who I am from my NFL days, you were a pretty big diehard Panthers fan. as a whole. But when I retired, I always knew there's life to have to football, jumped into an early stage biotech that ultimately led me to to momentous as it is today. But my vision and goal was never to be a supplement company CEO. I actually said no for a long time. And the business I started, we didn't transition into a supplement company until 2021. The middle of 2021, when I acquired and merged to business. is together that really thrust us into this sports nutrition's nutritional supplement category. And it's been an incredible journey. But the reason why I didn't want to be in it is kind of why

we're having the talk is like our industry is messy. My industry is messy. There's a lot of BS. People don't know what to believe. It's confusing. There's no oversight on air. And so you can really do whatever you want, say whatever you want. But the industry is over $200 billion. dollars. And the state of society is as sick and as unhappy as it's ever been. Right. And when you think about what is the role of a supplement, right, is to help you be more healthy and be more happy. And that's a lot of things what people are claiming that supplements do. The fact of the matter, supplements are supplemental to everything else you do in your life. And we've got to fix that other stuff too. But there is no way that, right, the health and happiness of society should be declining while my industry, is skyrocketing. So I fundamentally believe there's something broken and that has to do with trust and transparency and efficacy and cutting the noise and the BS out of a really big, big category.

So what you're saying is I can't eat dairy queen nonstop and then just take a supplement to offset it. God, you're ruining it for me, Jeff. Dude, come on. I am ruining it. You're ruining it for me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

So, okay, there's a couple things I wanted to chitchat about this because you've attacked an industry. A lot of people go after industry. where it's not as big and it's not as aggressive as the industry you've gone into it. But again, you're an office of alignment. This is what you do. You have a different exposure to things. One of the things, you know, you played professional sports.

I played semi-professional sports. One of the things we're taught really early on is we get access to resources and tools and just everything across the board, be it people that are, the average public doesn't see. You know, they look at someone like Usain Bolt. They're like, oh, if I get up every day, I'm going to run every day. And it's the same as what he's doing. It is not even remotely close. Can you tell me where the things in business where you've walked into saying,

hey, you know, I've had these elite things in the NFL, these elite training things my entire life. What are some of the elite things that you've done in order to attack this industry? Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of goes back to the leaders that I was around. And one of those coaches was Pete Carroll, who's a legendary coach. And watching how he built and managed culture. And what makes elite and pro sports so special is a lot of that is culture, right? You have huge egos and huge high performers all around, but you get them all pointing in the same direction, rowing in the same direction, really special things happen.

But there's an insane amount of accountability. There's a super short memory overall. And also, like me as a leader, one of the things I learned most from Pete Carroll is like, you, have to show up consistently every single day, right? It doesn't matter what type of leader you are or how you show up, but like, a leader who is unpredictable is the leader who no one follows or it's a, it's a crap show, right? Because if you just won the Super Bowl, you want that person to show up the same and predictable as if you just lost the Super Bowl, right?

And I think those things I've taken from a leadership perspective really at heart and look back of like, what are the things that I saw in locker rooms that work really, really well. But then I guess from like an athlete perspective, what did I, like, I have the saying like, the ball always gets snapped, right? When I was a plan, it doesn't matter. The game never waits for you. The business game never waits for you. The ball always gets snapped. The lack of movement is ultimately what we'll call everybody's failure here. And time is the greatest asset and the biggest enemy that any company has, especially companies that are trying to do it really differently and grow and disrupt,

right? Because time is our friend if we go fast and if we don't go fast. And so the ball always gets snapped. It doesn't wait for you. Time does not wait for anybody. You better be ready to go and you better give your best effort regardless, right? And then, right, you have a very short window to evaluate, make a decision, and the ball gets snapped again.

And so it's like this short memory being really, really resilient because you're always going to get beat. You're always going to have a problem, right? And you've got to learn and move forward. And if you let that problem or that mistake linger, it just drags down more and more mistakes. And ultimately your ass gets benched or like your business stutters out and fails. And so it's like, how do you move fast, right, in those moments?

And then I think the other thing is showing up matters. Right. And like, getting to the gym when you're training matters, right? Putting in the time in the, in the training room matters, right? In the film room matters. It matters. And you can't do that by not showing up. Half the battle, you got to be there. You got to be in person. You got to make the effort to do it. And what I learned is like, once you're there, then you can go optimize. But getting there, a lot of people just don't get there. They aren't willing to do that. Right? And it's like, go see your biggest. partners, whether they're your raw ingredients, your manufacturers, or your marketing partners. Like, showing up matters because that's how you ultimately drive differentiation. So you talked about culture and having everybody kind of row the same way. In sports, it's relatively easy to do that. When you're on the field, it is a clear enemy. We understand what we're doing.

Yeah, there's a little bit of infighting here and there. But in a corporate America, how do you get everybody rowing the same way? Because this is a challenging bargain. Yeah. My co-founder and president of the org, Erica, has really built the process and the operating system within Momentus, right? And why is it so easy to get a team on the scoreboard for everybody is clear? You know what winning and losing is, like on every position, right? Because that's what sports is.

Business, you play over a really, really long period, right? but what guides you in in sport is a, the practice plan, the meeting schedules, right? The game plan, how you call plays, right? All of that matters. And I think a lot of people forget in business, you have to have that core underlying operating system, right? When do you lift weights?

When do you go to film session? What does your practice schedule look like? Right? Like how often do how much do you do X to do Y? And so it's like this operating system that you have to invest time in and resources, just a meeting cadence as well. I would love to take credit for this. That is my co-founder that she has built this internal operating system.

And we've taken from a lot of different people, which you always do. But she's been able to just build our culture around the rhythm of business, right? And sport is the same rhythm. But ultimately, we have a scoreboard and we talk about the scoreboard a lot as a business. And everybody knows that they have. have a number on their head. That's part of what we installed. Like, the numbers are softer for other people, but like, what are, what matters to you the most? What is the most important thing that this individual can do to hit the number that we're trying to target in 12, 24 months? It's hard

because there's some disconnect, but meeting rhythms, right? How often does marketing and ops get together? How often does the leadership team get together? How often do we do off-sides, right? All that rhythm creates that process and creates, right, people getting on the same page. Because the problem with business on like sports, I mean, I think sports have this huge history of like, right, process and systems and like, you know, you practice, you know, you do this. But in business and as you're building business, you forget about some of that. Because early days, Eric and I, we made every decision. We did everything, right? And we were that bottleneck. But the only way you're able to get through, that is by having founders that drive everything.

And then you get to the stage where, oh, shit, we only go as far as our team can go. And that means you have to build system, process, rhythms. And that's how we've really got around. That is like, you build that in place. That gets people on the same page, rowing in the same direction, right? And in sport, it's a little different. But if you take a bigger step back in sport, you have the athletes that are playing on the field, And you have all the coaches, you have all the trainers, you have all the front office.

That's a business, right? Like, that's how a business is. Like, you have your thoroughbreds. We have our thoroughbreds that have a very specific role, right? And then we have our support staff that do very unique things, right? That those thoroughbreds, if we don't have that growth engine, right, with support, that growth engine never works. And so it's, if you think of it just as sports and just as the game, and the players, you fail, right?

You got to think about coaches, GMs, right? Like the community aspect of it, like all of these things, because those athletes can't go out and play if they don't have that support. And that's like business. You have your thoroughbred athletes that go out and play. Then you have the people who cut the grass, right? Make sure we got freaking tough, right?

And those people are just as important. Just as important. You just don't always think about them. So what do you do when you have someone who bucks the system? Because in sports, it's easy. if you get in a situation where you're not extraditing in a way we need you to if you're not, because again, I come from a baseball world,

if you're not pitching and you're not throwing strikes, you're going to get a little bit of grace period, but not much. And then we're just going to rotate somebody else in because there's a million people who want your spot. How do you do that in business as well? And keep the culture alive. That has been the hardest thing

to figure out, right? Because in sports, it's black or white. Right? And and there's always like, the next man up or the next person up mentality. And we had to build that over time. And so I think number one is, right, we've focused and we've, from day one, had a very, very clear set of values.

And these are how we behave and how people operate. Our values are non-negotiable. We hire solely based upon them and we fire based upon them very, very often. And then we have like, gets at wants a capacity to do it. That's like, can you throw a, curveball, can you do this? Like those are the actual technical, and do you want to do it? That's that kind of way.

Core values, non-negotiable. Gets it wants a capacity to do it. It's like, can you do your job? Do you want to do your job? Can you grow into your job? And that's part of can we build that? And so what we do is, right, I talk about the cadence and the rhythm of meetings. Then what you have is, right, touch points with people.

Right? We grade our people on our core values and, right, gets it wants a capacity to do it. Of that role, specific role, four times a year. And if somebody feels off, we have that conversation right away.

We call it a three strikes policy, but it sounds way harsher than it is, Charles. But, like, what it is, like, what we found is when you give feedback in like a one-on-one and all of that, people here, oh, I'm doing a great job and moving these projects, here's all the tactical things.

Oh, you know, to get better at X. Like, it's just like, okay, I get better at X, right? What we found is when you say, we are having a conversation of what we need you to do better right now, that is hard. And people choose one of two ways. They choose to lean in or they self, they vote themselves off the island, right? Both things are the right outcome, right?

And it's like, you rarely ever get to two or three strikes because, like, either that person's like, oh, I'm heard and they're like, I'm in or they're like, I'm out, right? And that's what we want and that's what we need, right? And so it's kind of creating that culture, but the team knows performance matters. And the best thing that we've created, I think, over the last year, year and a half,

is it's self-policing now, right? Whereas like, right? We have people on a team are like, oh, they're too slow, right? And it's like, let me see if we can get them. Like, people are taking other people, their peers into, like, bring them along because they know,

that we have to go, we, we demand, right, to go fast and we demand 100% responsibility. It's like, we need people to show up and do their jobs. And so we do, culturally, we've established, this is how we hire, this is how we fire, this is how people move in and out. There is no ambiguity, right? So people know, hey, I got my, I have a strike conversation. I get better to change my shit, right? And rather than, oh, I just had a one-on-one and I got a minus.

on this thing and it's like, okay, whatever, I'll get it figured out. But like, I got seven other pluses or, like, because that's how, like, we hear humans, we hear the good. And then we sometimes forget the bad. Also as a leader and a manager, if you're not forced to have the hard conversation, it's like, strike, like we require, like, three examples or the things that we can do better. Anyways, I think it's the systems and processes. And again, like my co-founder has just crushed these things.

Yeah, I think you hit there, you know, as a manager, that's your job. Your job's to have the hard conversations. You're not there to be cute and fun and hold people's hands. You're there to find the competitive advantages in the market, competitive advantages in your workforce as well and say, listen, this is what's going on. We're not going to have a BS conversation about it. Let's get to it. You know, we can be friends another time, but at the end of the day, I'm your boss and we need to get some. And I think having that intensity matters.

Now, that culture is not for everyone. We run into situations in orgs where one of the first things that I do when I'm broad then I tell HR, I'm like, you're fired. I will wipe the entire HR immediately. I'm like, you're going to hate me. You're just going to get in my way. I'm like, just for the next six months, you're fired. Go on vacation.

Go do something else because I'm raining fire. But you also have found a way in your industry, which is so saturated with BS and fillers, literally that you found a way to have a competitive advantage there as well. And it's a story that when we had our, you know, we do our intro calls when we connect, you told me this story. And I was like, dude, send me supplements. send me stuff now because you did something that most people haven't done. And I want to steal your thunder from me on that one.

But can you walk me through that story? Yeah, I think at the end of the day, our industry has been perceived and is operated as very commoditized, right? You just go and say, I want vitamin D or I want creatinia. You just get generic BS. That's not how food works. That's not how any of the rest of when we think of health, wellness, optimization, nutrition, that is like, you're just not going to buy generic BS, right, on there.

And what has happened over the last 40 years of this industry is it just like, it's just been this race to the bottom, right? And what does that mean is like very few companies understand their sourcing and their supply chain. They don't know where things come from. They're literally just going to a manufacturer and saying, I want protein. And they're like, here's your done protein, you know, versus like, what dairy, what region is this coming from? how are the cows treated, right? Where, what's their average age?

Production, all of these things that matter so much. When you think about the output, quality and transparency, it all starts with the raw ingredient. And if all you do is focus on the putting multiple raw ingredients together to make a final product and you aren't focusing on what are the quality of those raws going in, then you have an inferior product. And for us, it's our, we call it the momentous standard. It's kind of, it's three pillars. And it starts with the science-backed, curated portfolio, right? Which is like science-backed, right? We have our elite advisory board, help us craft and all that.

And we have the right products in there. Then it's all about sourcing, right? It's like, where are we sourcing from? When does it matter? Does it matter what type of vitamin D we get? Yes or no. Can we get the highest quality? Does that have an impact or not, right?

Sometimes it matters. And other times it doesn't. And sometimes it matters a lot. And so for us, where we focused on sourcing is going to put eyes on facilities of our major products, going to understand what is the purities, what is the process, right? Are they using a water wash or an acid wash? Because ultimately, that has to do with impurities on it. That has to do with cost and ultimately the end quality. And we believe our category is not something you do for a day or four or 20.

It's something that you do for a lifetime. And if you're going to invest in your health and wellness and you're putting an inferior, lesser quality product in your body over years, decades, that has implications, right? That's why people eat organic versus not. That's why people eat grass fed, natural beef versus not. They're making conscious decisions. And we believe if you're making a conscious decision and you're investing in your health and wellness, you probably care about those things.

And so for me, like getting on an airplane, like in two days from today, day and a half now, I fly to Ireland to go to our main dairy. There's two dairies in the world that manufacture our specification of weight protein. And then I go to Norway to visit our Omega-3 distillery that makes our incredibly highly potent omega-3 that we are really, really proud of. But like those things are really uncommon in our category. maybe somebody in the ops team goes for me as the CEO right like that's my business yeah right those are my biggest partners I have these massive marketing partners too that are massive to us and I go see them too but understanding how things are made and being able to look in your eyes and say I know where my creatine comes from I know where my protein comes from I know where my omegas come from right

I know where these things come from is important to me but also if It allows us to uphold our momentous standard in a way that doesn't. So when we say, hey, we have the highest quality protein that we can find for our business. It's true. I believe that because I've went everywhere. Yeah, I think you said it, you know, in the earlier call, you said you flew out and you met with the distributor and the supplier. And I'm like, cool, what else have you seen? What else have you seen this to?

What did they say? And they were like, no one's ever, no one's ever come and seen us before. No one flew out to that part of the world and did that, which I was like, okay, now this is a different conversation because people want to know, right? Again, this is a $2 billion industry at the bare minimum. It's taken off. 200 billion, sorry, $200 billion industry. People are like, well, how do you penetrate a market like that? Do you have the fancy, you know, model doing this?

Or do you show up and have an Instagram thing? Like, no, this is my USP. I'm going to sit there and tell you this is exactly where my stuff comes from. Not out of theory. I have stood and touched the machine. And I think that's something that most people don't understand when they're trying to get success and they're trying to have proven growth. They're not going to have that USP. Well, I think the challenge, especially in my category, is it's really easy to build a business fast.

Right. And our thought process is if we want, we have an internal saying, we say we want to be the anti-supplement supplement supplement company. Right. We want to challenge an industry to do better. And we talk about 15, 20, 30 years. The only way you do that is by building a foundation on quality and transparency and sourcing, right? We could, like, we don't work on TikTok. Why?

Because we won't say crazy things because that is not our brand DNA and our brand ethos. And most businesses in our category are like TikTok's the holy grail unlock. And it's like, okay, great. That is not how you build a brand that is still leading in 20 years. And so the hardest thing that we do is that I think we do as a business is when we are making big decisions, what does this do for our business in 20 years? Is this help us or hurt us, help us or hurt us, right? And it's like product portfolio, product category, sourcing, all of those things. Because ultimately, maybe it's a wash and then you don't make, that it doesn't matter to that decision.

And then you make a decision based on economics or marketing or growth. But ultimately when you make big decisions, you need to look forward on what it is. And that long-term thinking is sometimes at odds with short-term profitability. 100%. And that is hard. And most people in our industry aren't always looking. It's like some of the CEOs in our space, it's like it's their seventh supplement company. They just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, because it's an easy place to make money.

like air quote right like it's so big and there's you can build the business that's seven people that can do 50 million dollars in our category but that brand is not here in 10 15 years as leading like that's the difference I believe what I want to build because I want to create change what we talked about early on is like the industry is massive and it's doing a huge disservice I want to help change that trajectory I want to be a positive part of the health and wellness and optimist of society. I just don't want to be a blip on the on the radar. So how do you deal with the contradicting science, right? So there's a lot of people out there. It's like, oh, you need to be purely plant-based or you need this supplement or need that supplement. And you're making

these universal claims to different body types, different blood work, different environments. How do you handle that onslaught? I think that's why we don't work on places like TikTok or, right, like traditional meta-influencers, right? Because we won't say those things. And ultimately, we're all more alike than we are not as humans. But at the end of the day, we all have different goals, different challenges, and therefore, what we need to supplement and how we do that matters, right? Some people are like, oh, I'm carnivore and it crushes for me.

Great. You found something that works. Oh, I'm a vegan. Great. don't really care, right? What I care is that you have found things that are sustainable over long periods of time that drive optimal health. And the research is always, right, going to ebb and flow on there, right? Guess what? We know protein is important, right? Creatine has almost been irrefutable based upon the amount of research out there. Omega-3 fatty acids, right? Same. And it's like,

focus on the foundational things. And that's like for us, like, we don't have a, you know, these crazy products that are out there that very few people have ever heard of or that are fixing it are proprietary blends because that shit doesn't matter right those are that's that can be noise unless you get blood work or you're trying to fix a specific problem within your your end of one human and so like plant based all of this and people have strong opinions and for me i'm stoked opinions is what people matters in the world and like but you got to realize that every i i'm different than you. Like, I played, I play, I play, I was an offensive line and played in the NFL. You might have a messed up shoulder. I got messed up back, hips, foot, right? All these things.

Like, we have different things that we do. Therefore, we approach the gym differently. We approach the things, like, why would we say, oh, once, anyways, I, that's part of the challenges. The noise is so loud. So how do, this is really important. How do you cut through that noise, right? Because we do have different things. You, you spent your professional career in car accidents, and over and over and over and then willingly getting back in to do it. You know, I've got a torn laborer in my left arm, so it changes how I work out and how I train. I didn't get into, you know, car accidents to seven times a day during practice. Even when we come to business, you know, we approach things differently.

I come from a tech background. I come from a systems and service provider background. So I can scale those in my sleep. That's easy for me. This is a product background. This is a different conversation. How do you approach these differently and penetrate through? Yeah.

Yeah. I think if we, we haven't done it great all the time, right? And we continue to get better. And I think, you know, like people used to ask me like, oh, what should I take? And I just told them what I took. And I realized, oh, that's really wrong. That's not going to work. Right.

And so what we did was we started asking the smartest people, the pro sports dietitians, the exercise physiologists, the researchers, hey, what are the core foundational items that matter? Right. when we think about things that you can supplement. And that's, we built what we called Momentus 3. Protein, creatine, and omega's, right? It's like, that is a foundation that you can build on. And if you do those things over long periods of time, they have immense amounts of clinical

data and research. Then everything else is condition specific, right? And, hey, you can get protein from a lot of different sources. Awesome. Right. Creatine a little bit harder, but, like, creatine is relatively inexpensive for the highest quality stuff out there, right? And, like, it's really hard to get from your diet. And then omagas is the same way. But, like, invest in what matters and when you can add. And so for us,

like, we have a plant protein, we have a weight protein. We have unflavored. We have flavor. So, like, how do we meet consumers where they're at? Right. Creatine, we have different form factors, right? Omega's, we have a vegan omega and we have a fish omega. And it's like, how do we meet the consumer where they're at? If we say these matter the most, hit that. consumer, right? Say, let's build around so that we can solve 90% of that. And then build the biggest buckets around them, the biggest conditions. It's like, Charles, you have an issue with sleep? Cool. Right. Have you tried these behavior things, et cetera? Boom. And so, but what we try to do is like, we don't try to go out there and be like, uh, sleep. Everybody needs to take sleep because it does X,

where and Z. It's like, I don't take sleep. Why? I sleep great. Right. I don't know why. I just do. I always have. Right. It's one of my games. gifts on there. Other people sleep like crap, right? And that's just the nature of the game. Yeah. And right, we give and take. And so it's like, how do you break it down simplicity, right?

And what we try to do from a marketing perspective is talk about the foundation, right? And then we try to bring in behaviors, product guides, right, and create that education around why and how. And then leverage our partners. because I think the biggest thing for us is people are going to take what they think they want to take, not just when we say it. And so we want to be known as the high trust brand and low trust category. We have standards that are uncompromisable, right? And we're going to certify what is in the product is actually in the product.

Every single time, because that's what we do. And so if you need vitamin D, Momentus is clearly the answer. If you need, right, if you need a sleep product, let's go to Momentum. first. And that's our goal. And what we want our partners and our like large ecosystem of people to say momentous is the standard. Right. So and you're going through this as a business owner and as you're creating this because a lot of people are trying to bring product to market. Right. They're like, okay, we've got we've got an acquisition, but fulfillment on this is a challenge because, you know, we've got a very intense political environment right now. That's about as about as intense as I'll talk

about that. But we've got an intense political environment. We've got immense amount of things going on with tariffs. We've got countries that don't like interacting with us the way they used to. How do you go through? Because again, acquisition is acquisition. And again, and I'm skipping ahead and I'll get the audience caught up on this. When you're playing collegiate sports, when you're playing semi-professional sports, you're not eating the same food as everyone else. You need to understand. That's really important. You're not taking the sudden supplements. You're not sleeping on the same beds. You're not using the same blue light glasses. You're not doing any of that.

Everything is very much through a filter and using the best and the best stuff. So a lot of your brand and a lot of it is use in environments where performance matters. Because everyone looks at college football and like, oh, that's fine. It's just a game. No, it's a huge industry that makes an immense amount of money. And they're very much putting things in in a specific way. So for everybody listening at home, yes, we're all cheating. We're all using supplements.

We're using, I remember when I, you know, I played college ball. all of a sudden they looked at my cleats like you're not wearing that anymore. I'm like, why? Well, we molded your foot and this works better for your foot and this metal works better on the cleats. I was like, you're talking about the metal on the damn cleats? What are you talking about? So there is a competitive advantage that most people don't have and Momentus has penetrated into that market. Now we're running into an environment of bringing them more to the public versus to that environment.

How do you handle fulfillment? How do you make the relationships with vendors? How do you find the manufacturers where, yeah, maybe they go. out and they do nice things to you because you were there on a Tuesday. But as soon as you leave, Wednesday, they're going to put chalk and, you know, piss in there. How do you deal with fulfillment and all of that? Yeah. I mean, I think it's all around like this last core pillar of the standard is trust but verify. Everything that we do, right, every finished product off the line in a jar like this, we test it. Right? It is test every batch every single time.

right because it's one thing for a wrong to go see a wrong gradient supplier and they say oh this is how clean it is this how good it is look at our great test results and everybody will show you great test results in fact of the matter is what comes out another end often is very very different and changes batch to batch

and so like for us it's like you have wrong ingredients that come in then they hit a then they get shipped sometimes across the world they're across the country and then they hit a man a command right that blends and packages lots of things happened in that warehouse, right?

Lots of things happen on that blender. Lots of things go through those pipes. And then you have your container that you put it in. Lots of things happen in that manufacturing process too. And then you have your finished goods. And you're like, well, there's a lot of steps. And so what we find in those step processes is cross-contamination. If machines aren't clean correctly,

if it's stored next to something that it shouldn't be stored next to. Or if it's shipped in a container, right? All those things matter to us. And that's why you always trust but verify at the end. Right. It's like, hey, we believe we found the best manufacturing partners and the best sourcing, put the money with the mouth. And if it doesn't test a spec, we reject.

Right. So how do you do, in your industry, when you're doing that and they're sending garbage, and it happens to be a vendor that you've worked with for a long time, and you have a great relationship with them, but they're screwing the pooch. They're cutting corners. They're doing that. How do you address that? How do you, what is the step by step in that?

Do you just bring a hammer or what do you? do. They know we have zero tolerance. Okay. Right. And they, they, they, they, it's the same part of your culture with the three strikes. It's that same thing. It's like, listen, we're not here to be your friend. Yeah, but like, I like, lots of our, my employees are our friends. But they know when it's a, when it's time to perform, it's time to perform. And if you don't perform, that's a different, that's a different conversation than a friend conversation, right? We go hang out, have dinner, go work out, do all that.

You have to show up and perform for us. And so everybody across the supply sheet, like, put in perspective, like, in the last month, we've rejected three full containers of a raw ingredient. Just sent it back because it didn't meet our spec. Right. And that's like, and guess what? Our supplier was like, yep, okay, they're just going to sell to somebody else at the day.

Or, I mean, but it doesn't meet our standards. And they know that if we've told. them, these are our standards contractually. If it doesn't pass these tests, we do not accept this production run. But like from a business perspective, our multivitamin is one of the most comprehensive multis on the market. We, we were out of stock for three and a half months almost of it because we failed three production runs in a row. Oh, wow. On it, right? Our command doesn't pay us for our lost sales on there. Right, like the people putting together the blend, right?

We eat the lost sales. And it was about $700,000 in Q1, right? And that's, but that's, that's our standards. And we're okay with that. Hey, we could have, we could have said, yeah, it's okay, right? Like, it was one ingredient that was a tiny ingredient that didn't meet our spec. And it just is what it is. And we had to go find a new raw ingredient supplier, like for one of like 70 different ingredients in that product.

And that's just our, that's who we are. And our co-man understands it. They are like, yep, yep, this is momentous. They have other businesses don't, hey, I'm sure we pay for it. I mean, I know we pay for it in our costs. But for me, yeah. So you've got this standard both internally and externally with your suppliers and the people that are working with you on a day-to-day basis.

How do you apply that level standard to growth then? Because if you have this, this bar that everyone, must meet and you're trying to connect with people and you're not advertising the way that normal people do in the rest of the world, which is just regrettably your industry is, and I said this with as nice as way possible. I've been around this industry for 34 years, 33 years, you know, because my dad would senior vice president of Badly's Thetal Fitness, who was senior vice president of GNC and I knew the trash that was going in there. I mean, we would sit there and like, don't eat that. He's like, don't, like, I'd go to, I'd go visit him in at one of the stores. I'm like, I'm going to

grab one of these bars. He's like, don't eat that. They're like, absolutely. You go, don't put that in your mouth. So we knew back to them, and it's only gotten better. How do you market? How do you penetrate into a market and what your branding cycle looked like? Yeah, I think because our roots, I mean, we didn't really talk about the roots of the business, but the underlying business, right, we started with a $1.8 million contract with the Department of Defense and combined that with venture capital funds. And that was in 2018. And we were in the consumer biotech space.

And we ultimately didn't get into the, into, right, the supplement space until 2021. And our roots are very, very different, right, as a whole. And so, right, we come from this background of clinical research of working with the best. And we were in pro and college sports in that time and, like, this really unique space. And when we went into supplements and all of that, it was like, that, like, that is our roots. We are born. We, like, people like, oh,

you're a D to C native business. I'm like, I'm a pro and college sports U.S. military native business. Like we were wholesaling to those. Those were our customers. We built a little small D to C business on the back end. And then in 2022, we blew up in Ecom land. And that was because what we did was we continued to serve the best people in the world and do it right over and over and over again. And so then when we got into this huge tam that is sports nutrition supplements and the momentous brand was born and pro in college sports. It was really natural for us to start partnering with these big voices in health and wellness that are PhDs. And they're like, oh, my friends at so-and-so trust you, I trust you.

And they know, as you know, man, it's hard to put my name behind something here. My brand is my name. And if I'm reppping a BS brand, that's high risk. And so we became this high trust brand in a low trust category. like challenge your mindset as you can see but like really focus on the best and we still most like we still sell to every NFL team every one of them is their customer we sell nearly every other professional and college sports team in this country we have some really unique things with the department defense we've won nine contracts with them to date right like those are our roots those are the people that give us this really deep keel right like that keep us centered and grounded and make us do it better than it's ever been done before and so that flywheel has spun off, right, not low, low funnel, lower funnel marketing. It's spun off big top of funnel, middle funnel marketing. So we have big voices that are saying, momentous is the best. And, right, whether that was Dr. Huberman or Tim Ferriss or a Rich Roll or a Dr. Stacey Sims, these people who are

helping set the culture. And now we have a guy named Arnold Schwarzenegger. But those things took three plus years, a lot of those relationships of showing them that we are different, showing them that we will make hard decisions to cut products, change products that are better for consumers for them. And so it's like this flywheel of what I say, keeping, like being at the forefront of high performance, spun off all these big name people. And now all these influential people, like, we want momentous. How do we work with momentous? And rather than saying like, oh, we're going to go after, you know, the transactional TikTok or meta or whatever, we're going after people who are authoritative, right, that have transcended those types of things or who are key opinion

leaders, right? Ultimately, that drive that. And what that has allowed us to do is now work into these other spaces. They're like, well, the people I trust, trust Momentous. So that's why I rep momentous. Yeah, very early on when the podcast took off, there was a specific brand. I'm not going to mentioned the brand that wanted me to sell their stuff. It's a, I'll say it's a green brand. It's always go with that. It's got green covers.

And I immediately rejected it, even though it was a huge deal. Because the product that's inside of there was absolute trash. Because I asked them, I said, show me the science. They're like, what? I'm like, show me the science. Show me someone that you've worked with where you saw their blood work before and we saw the blood work after.

Show me walls of studies with that. They're like, well, we can't, but we'll pay lots of money. No, that's not proven to me. That's a different conversation. So when you're going in that, I'm curious when you're working with contracts like the DoD, when you're working with contracts of professional sports, what are the things that they're litmus tests that they're asking you? Because there are other business owners that we work with that are going to ask like, hey, I want to penetrate a market like that. I want to fill the top of my funnel with that. What are the things that you've done in order to do that?

It's a purely relationship base or is it just because, you know, you're a good guy or how do you do that? it, it, uh, I think it starts with doing the right thing over and over again. Like for, for me, like, I had a really clear litmus test of like, it has to be like, the people who nobody knows that are the leaders had to be able to be behind it. And so it's like doing that right thing, right? And being very core. Like, there was a lot of people that were like, oh, you should like, you should source your weight protein different. It's way cheaper, way more accessible. And it's like, nope. I've just fundamentally, like it was a no, right? And it's like, oh, you should do this or you should go here. And it's like, no, no, no. Why?

Because like, I always had that long term picture of like, we're trying to do it different, not like everybody else. And so when you really want to be a challenger, the second you start accepting what everybody else is doing, right? And you're just, you're just on your way to that. And that's not, if you want to be a challenger brand and you want to do it better than it's ever been done before, you got to make those decisions. And then it's, then it, then it has to do with like,

showing up continuously the same way, right? And for me, the investment in the relationship is an investment is saying, this is what we do differently. And yes, if you ask for X, I'm going to do X, right? Or I'm going to say, hey, X doesn't make sense. What about why? And there have been countless steps along the process where somebody's like, you won't do that. You won't get that certification. I was like, why not? Right. And he's like, oh, it costs too much money. It's like, boom, got it. Right. Oh, you won't do that clinical research. You won't show up to this thing. I was like, yeah, we will. Like, why wouldn't we?

But the problem is most people don't think about those things. They're like, how do I get a deal done? How do I get a deal done? How do I get a deal done? Right. Arnold's a great example. Like, it took almost three full years to get a deal done with Arnold Schwarzenegger. And it was just this constant showing them we're doing it better and different. It wasn't a day one, let's do a deal.

It was like, oh, man, it'd be cool to partner together. And what you learn while you get to know those people is what matters to them. And when you build these big, rich, deep partnerships, right, it is not just a transaction. It's about how do you build something that's meaningful to them, right? And meaningful to you. And so it's like, but that takes time and effort to do that. But again, it takes doing it over and over and over and over again. And it was, there were years that were real hard and momentous.

Like we pull the product off the market in 2023. that just single-handed late, and that was it, what year are we in, 24, 25? In 2024, that made us unprofitable the whole year. We pulled one product in Q2, and it took all of the EBIT out of our business. That was a, and we knew that when we did that, it was going to do that.

But it did not in our portfolio. It was duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, goose, right? And it was like, get the goose out, right? We got the goose out and ultimately, right, maybe we'd be way more profitable than we are today. But in that short term, it was really hard. I have investors. I have a board. Right.

And we had to say, hey, we're going to lose $4 million in profit by one product that we're choosing to not do anymore. And here's why? Because it doesn't fit our brand creation and it's a goose in a portfolio of ducks. And we believe that long term it will set us up better. doing those things, partners are like, ooh, that's interesting. They're not just money first. Ooh, that's interesting. They actually care about their standards.

Ooh, that's interesting. And whatever those standards are, whatever your vision is for that business, when you start making decisions away from that as a founder as a CEO, then this does not become authentic. This becomes transactional. And transactional relationships, they work, but they don't work long term. And they always, I've found that the transactional relationships always end the worst. Right.

I think you're talking about this. as a relationship. Yeah, sure you've got Arnold, but I guarantee you that in three months, if you don't keep that standard that he agreed to or solved for the last three years, he's gone, absolutely disappear. So when you're a disruptor in the forest, when you're, you're being signal versus noise, when you are that lighthouse amongst the fog, you're going to get people who get pissed off at you. There's just no way around them. You're going to get people to get grumpy and they're going to hunt you. And regrettably, if, for those of you who are listening who haven't broken certain figures yet,

just understand when you do when you bring certain fingers they're going to come at you it is what it is and it's expected it just it is what it is it's to put it in a sports thing a sports analogy you're fine until you catch the ball the minute you catch the ball everybody wants to kill you so you've caught in a lot of industries you've caught in that ball you you are the tallest blade of grass and it's got to try and get cut can you can you can you share some of the examples of that and the ways that you've survived that hit. Yeah, I think number one is always hitting it head on, right? Like there, uh, there was a consumer reports report that came out. And it was like, like a complete hit piece on a lot of, on a lot of people. It was like, here's a reality. Yes. Right. We've always, like, you can see these test results on our,

on our website. Right. It was about plant protein and like, spoiler alert, plant proteins have a little more heavy metals than weight protein. Why? Because it comes from the ground and that's what happens. But it was like, you will die if you eat plant protein. I was like, this is fair. Like this is just noise, noise, noise. It's like, here's our perspective. Like, here's what we believe. We've always shared these results with you, never tried to hide them. And this is the actual reality of what we're talking about. And just always being genuine and not being like, they're idiots. They don't know what they're talking about. It's like, hey, context is key and everything. And when you take things out of, out of context, it hurts.

And guess what? People are going to knock us. They always will. And you also just have to have a thick skin sometimes. And it's like, hey, you know, be unkillable here. And being unkillable is sometimes taking the higher road. Sometimes knowing not what to engage. Sometimes just being genuine, being like, hey, we effed up.

And like, it is what it is. And sometimes, you know, being really, really, really transparent. And like, here's why we made a decision. Here's what, why it matters. as a whole. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But what we care about is building the brand that consumers resonate with over long periods of time. Right. And there's always going to be attackers that that will be to the end of time. And it's an honor to be attacked to be quite. Yeah, it really is. And I also think understanding that not every customer is your customer, not every person is your person. I think it's a really important thing because, you know, When this comes out or when my book came out, when all these other stuff came out, I'm going to get attacked. Like, oh, you're not my people. And that's okay.

I was on stage this weekend with a group of people. And some of them, we did a seven figure and they loved it. We did seven figures right from the, they loved it. It was this thing. Awesome. And there's other people in the group that are like, oh, these guys are sobs, that da, which we guarantee. We're like, here, here's your money back. How am I said?

We don't care. Not everybody you want to work with is going to do it. Just like not every supplement that you're going to take. needs to be at this level. There are some supplements out there that if it's for you, you could take a different path. But when you hold that standard,

it seems like one of the reasons you guys are so successful and are doing this is if you've held a standard not only for your products and your supplements, but also for your people. And you're going to get resistance in there as well. So what happens when you have an employee and how do you deal with an employee

that bucks that system where you've trusted and then that trust is violated just like a vendor's trust is violated, just like a vendor's trust is violated. How do you dealt with those? People are, as you know, Charles, people are the hardest. Yeah. Right?

Because at the end of the day, they are humans. And there's more than just a job typically as at play. And we had a mentor, I don't know how long, like two or three years ago. And he was like, you just got to do it out of love. Right? And remember that they are human. and sometimes you don't say everything you want to say. And as the founder or leader,

you sometimes just to get to eat it. And, you know, like we moved on from somebody and I just got to shut up and just take it, right? Because we're already moving on. It doesn't do me any good, right? And on there, and it was really hard to just like, bite my tongue, get lashed for all the things that I did wrong. Right.

And some of them have truths to them, but some of them are missing context. And you walk away from that and it's like always take the high road when you're getting, when you're moving away from people. Always. Because the, right, one of the greatest things we've had is we've had two people that we, that left this business that ultimately have come back to this business. They've taken like two and a half, two years off. and right i one of them i i would have sworn to god they would have never come by a friend right friend

and the family like got close with my wife right all these things and it was like oh i we we napalm the shit out of that one um and i handled it terrible and right some water went on the bridge some more water right and we just and and what it turned out is we both needed to grow and now she's like our chief parking officer and she's a baller right and And, but it was one of those things when, you know, when we were looking for a new leader in marketing. I called her. And I was like, hey, do you have anybody in your network? And she's like, what about me?

I was like, you want to come back? Right. You know, it was like, but that's, try to take the high road, right? And it's hard. But you have to have those conversations. And what I've always, the regret that I always have is when you know, you know, and make that decision then. I always am like, damn, I wish I would have done this three weeks early. you, right? I wish it would like, right? Because

you just don't, that doesn't change. Once you've made the decision, it's done. And there's no better time because then it's all, like, they, then you, then people start looking like, oh man, three weeks ago, it's kind of awkward. Was, did they know? And they not tell me. Um, and so it's hard. It's hard. And in a young growing business, everybody matters. But guess what? You figure it out, right? If that means I got to work a little harder the next three, months before we back to fill great but also what that means maybe you prioritize your shit a little better um anyway i i just people are really hard and like approach every hard people conversation out of love remember right they are the ones that are suffering like as much like the decision has been made

have it just be done and and like you're also going to just very few uh some people are very gracious a lot of people, right, in the heat of battle, say a lot of bad things and mean things. And they might try to come after you and you just always take the high road, always take the high road, try to take the high road, like, do right. Because at the end of the day, the world's fucking small. And it's the idea that the longer you take to make a decision, the more it's going to cost you. It's just that simple. It's like being on a train heading in the wrong direction.

Get off as soon as you can because it's less way to head the other way back. And then we talk about, you know, getting mentors and getting in that situation. One of my mentors taught me, you know, because I was having a moment, one of the first people I ever had out of fire. I was like, you know, this person's got a family. The person's got kids. How am I going to do this? And he sat down and he goes, look at this. You've got this one person.

And yes, it's going to be devastating to their family. But you have 40 other families that you need to protect. So you have to make that decision. And they're never easy and it's never fun. But again, being that outlier and keeping that level of that standard has been really challenging. What is one thing in your industry that the other supplements do? And I'm not naming other companies, but you're like, this one supplement, for the love of God,

if you never buy it from anyone else, please don't buy this trash. This is the one you can't mess around with. Don't put blah, blah, blah in your system unless you know where it comes from because it's just we've seen the research because you're, you're the tip of the spirit when it comes to this. What is one that you're like, good God, don't put that in your system? Oh, God.

This is a dangerous question. I'll go, I'll kind of go of two different directions here. I'll give you two different answers. Like, I think the peptide world is really dangerous right now. Right? It's everything is research grade, which means there is nothing about it. And we don't know. We really, really don't know.

And, like, I, I, I, I would say we are, we are years, if not more, away from understanding the true implications of what some of these research peptides can or cannot do or have problems. Also, yeah, the long-term effects of them as well, because I just don't think injecting wind decks into your butthole is probably a good idea. You might want to have some other step on that. So, so I'll say, like, I'm just like a complete, people ask me all the time, like, oh, peptides? I'm like, why? No. Like, there are so many other things right now that can solve it, right?

Like, if you have a crazy cancer and there's a peptide that can help, potentially help, you don't, like, yes. But if you're trying to optimize and live healthier and longer, like, no research, nothing. And then I would say on the supplement side, the one that I, the one that I think has the, like, it's like as deep as the Grand Canyon as wide as the Grand Canyon from a, from like a quality efficacy perspective, is an Omega 3. right and when you think about that is like the efficacious dose of omega-3 fatty acids is about 1.5 grams or more per day and that and that's DHA and EPA right combined we do a one-to-one ratio which we believe is the best ratio because it's the lowest taxing on your body and has the best benefits but overall most omega-3s or most fish oils are just fish oil right and not heavy in the omega-3s and fish also have a lot of heavy metals in them, right? And the processing, the temperatures, how it's

stored, the capsules, and all that really, really matters, right, in there. And so you truly get what you pay for in an omega-3 supplement, A, from a dosage perspective, but B, from a quality, heavy metals, toxins perspective as well. And, you know, like, my dad was like, is my greatest example of this. And he's like, oh, I've been buying this, I've been buying 180 servings from the big box store, you know, for the last 20 years. And it's awesome. And I was like, pull it out, take a picture of it, and let's compare labels. And he was like, well, it has the same amount of fish oil in it, but it has one-tenth of the amount of omega-3s. And I was like, so you have to take 10 of the surface to match one of ours. And I was like, what fish is it coming from? Where is the

For sure. What is it? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, you want small fish, right? Sardines, anchovies, macros, because they're small in the food chain.

They have less mercury, less heavy metals. Right? Right. Like, you don't want it to go bigger up. And, like, some fish oil you can buy off the shelf. You have no idea what fish they come from or how they're distilled. Or they cold process. Oh, anyways.

So fish oil is the one that I think is the gap is wide. And there's some great companies out there. We are really proud of our, our Omega-3, like, really, really proud. And we have like the most potent vegan omega three on the market too. But like that is one that I find is just like as deep and as wide as the Grand Canyon in terms of differences. And there are some people on one side and there's a lot of people on another. And the bottom is ripe with craziness. Gross.

All right. So I'm going to selfishly ask for sleep because all my listeners are entrepreneurs. We're all founders. We're all small business owners. We run an environment where we just don't sleep. well. It is probably the biggest thing that we run into in our this specific niche. When we go in, when I talk to angel investors, we go to talk to BCs, when we all get around? Like, hey, when was the last time you slept? You're like, what sleep? I don't, I don't speak Sanskrit. I don't know what that word is.

What are you talking about? Is there a magic thing? Is there something? Because Mr. I sleep really well over there, you bastard. For the rest of us who don't sleep well, what are the things that you would look at for sleep? I thought, well, I think I sleep really well because I burn really, really, really hot. Right. And like I just like go, go, go. And like, I just shut down. Like I can't like I literally, I literally can't. And that's part of like my training routine. Like I'm a really high energy person overall. And like I also have really good. Um, hygiene when it comes to right, when I train, when I work out, how I do those things that, right, what you find is the hygiene throughout the day actually really matters. Um, as a whole. And. And, right for me how do I protect my time and my day and all of that like my sleep hygiene is is good but like I would say my my circadian rhythm is what's good um across that and like how do you optimize that it's like when you eat how you eat caffeine all of those things and it just like I've naturally done that but honestly like Charles like back when I play in the NFL before sleep was a fucking

thing I was like tracking sleep right I'm like did I sleep good did I not sleep because it's so like I just realized it was so correlated to everything as a whole. So when I think about sleep, I think the number one thing is sleep hygiene before bed, right? And I know like the nights that I don't sleep well, it's because I'm staring at my computer till 11 or 12 o'clock at night. Like I'm up, ripping and my brain's going, right? It's really, really hard. When you're going, you're going, right? And for me, it's like, how do I create habits?

that change that is super important. And a lot of times that's not realistic. I choose to work early. Like I always rather wake up and work than stay up, right? Like, I try to go to bed. And if I need to wake up at four to get stuff done, I wake up at four, right? That's just my M.O. I would rather not.

So I keep my bedtime consistent. There are things that help you downregulate, right, as a whole. Like Apogenin, L-theonine can really help you down. regulate at night, right? That I think is really important to some people who burn really hot or have a hard time doing that as a whole. So that down regulation is super important as a whole. Anyways, I think that's that's quickly important.

So when we're going through and people want to track this down because obviously you come into this industry with a very different perspective, not only is professional sports, but also your previous, you know, clients are DOD. They are professional sports. There are people who it matters. Because, you know, you go to a big box store. They don't really care if you're performing on that high level. When you're talking about the clients that you've grown with,

if they don't perform well, some of them don't come home. So performance matters in that environment. If someone's tracking it down, they're like, man, Jeff, I want to know more. I want to get access to. How do people track you down? What's your personal home number? What's your personal? I'm kidding.

You know, what do we do? How do we connect? How do people find you? What's the best way to go forward? Yeah. For me, I'm like pretty often. of social media as just an FYI, just something I've chosen not to do with my life.

But I'm on LinkedIn. It's kind of a dumpster fire for me as a whole, just to be completely transparent. But I'd also say, like, a lot of me comes out in our brand, right? And our team does a wonderful job of really breaking things down.

Like, find me on LinkedIn. I'm, you know, like, it's easy to find me on LinkedIn on there. And that would be the best way. to do that. But also like, customer service gets a lot of questions that directed towards me

that I actually answer on there. Like, hey, you know, I, you know, saw Jeff in the airport or I met Jeff here or I listened to the podcast here. Like, can you ask him this? And it's like, yeah, why not? Like, easy as a whole. So I would say that's super important as ways.

Like, just navigate through it. Like, I've tried to not be on social media because I find that when I am on social media, I go down black holes. Yes. Yes. I have found that as well. And I work very hard on getting off social media. I'm the opposite that you are. When people reach out directly to me, you're going to run into a bunch of gatekeepers that I put there on purpose. People are like, oh, you know, I didn't know I was on LinkedIn for over a decade until I, you know, like, hey, you know, you've been on LinkedIn for a decade. I haven't logged in since, you know, it's been a while. So working on that. But and if someone want access to your brand or, you know, where do they go? What's the best website to take a look at it? Yeah, livemometus.com is the brand. We're on Amazon. We're sold in vitamin shop now as well,

which has been a big coup for us because we've become like this high quality brand in there and done really well. But yeah, livemometest.com is the best place to find us. Amazon's super easy. Our whole product portfolio is there. You can get it most places by this afternoon. Perfect.

I appreciate you coming on, Jeff, and sharing some of the wisdom on how you, you know, kind of disrupt a $200 billion industry. Awesome. Thanks, Charles. Jeff plays the long game. He treats time like an opponent, engineers operating systems where most people slap on marketing and refuses to let his label cash checks his ingredients can't honor. A four-year NFL lineman who never planned on running a supplement company.

Now ships to the military and stocks vitamin shop shelves. And the takeaway is this one. The ball always gets snapped whether you're ready or not. leaders who waver lose the locker room, and a real brand gets made in person at the factory with the partner in the room. We'll catch you on the next episode.