Proven Podcast - Increase Your Conversion Rates - Andrew Gottlieb

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

In this episode, Charles sits down with Andrew Gottlieb of No Typical Moments, a digital marketing expert who shares his unique "impact with profit" methodology for scaling businesses using Facebook ads and other digital marketing strategies. Andrew reveals the common pitfalls businesses face when attempting to scale their digital marketing efforts, such as relying on outdated tactics, forcing Facebook ads as the first advertising medium, and setting unrealistic expectations. He breaks down the importance of crafting conscious creatives that resonate with your target audience and emphasizes the need for rapid prototyping and testing to identify and address bottlenecks in your marketing funnel. Throughout the episode, Charles and Andrew dive deep into the three-phase process for scaling your business with digital marketing. Andrew stresses the importance of connecting marketing efforts to your P&L statement and ensuring that your campaigns are generating highly qualified leads that convert into paying customers. Gain valuable insights into the essential components of a successful digital marketing campaign, from setting up a clean tracking ecosystem to testing your offer with your existing audience before investing heavily in paid advertising. Andrew shares real-world examples of split tests and case studies, demonstrating the impact of authentic, personalized creatives in driving conversions. Whether you're a seasoned digital marketer or a business owner looking to scale your online presence, this episode is packed with actionable advice and proven strategies for creating marketing campaigns that deliver both impact and profit. Tune in to discover how Andrew's "impact with profit" methodology can help you navigate the ever-changing landscape of digital marketing and achieve sustainable growth for your business. Key Takeaways: Uncover the three critical blunders in digital marketing that can derail your business growth, and learn how to navigate around them Discover a proven, three-step approach to supercharge your business's expansion while making a positive impact Learn the essential strategy you must implement before investing in any marketing campaign to ensure its success Head over to https://provenpodcast.com/  to download your exclusive companion guide, designed to guide you step-by-step in implementing the strategies revealed in this episode. Key Points: 1:10 Impact with Profit Methodology 5:54 Importance of Detailed Reporting 7:29 Finding the Right Advertising Medium 10:14 Importance of Split Testing 12:00 Unrealistic Expectations in Advertising 15:43 Fractional CMO Importance 17:46 Historical Data Analysis 19:29 Running Marketing Campaigns 23:06 Organizing Data 25:01 Importance of Testing 29:28 Product Market Fit Testing 32:10 Understanding Agency's Strengths 37:50 Preparing for Call 41:08 Incorporating Video Marketing

Welcome to the proven podcast, which does not matter what you think, only what you can prove. Our guest today, Andrew, the digital marketing strategist who developed the impact with profit methodology as a proven success scaling requires more than just throwing money at Facebook ads. It demands a conscious strategy, relentless testing, and connecting with every campaign to your bottom line. The show starts now. Today we're going to talk about the idea that there's all these ways to scale with Facebook ads or any of that, but we never talk about being conscious enough about how to create your ads to create your campaigns that are driven on both impact and can create profit.

And is why Andrew is here. So Andrew, walk me through your process. Welcome to the show. Let's get into it. Hey, Charles. Well, what I like to say is our unique way we approach digital marketing is our impact with profit methodology. We came up with this a few years ago because we saw some gaps in how marketing agencies,

you know, marketing departments were approaching digital marketing. And so we like to focus on conscious. creatives. So are you creating, you know, copy and design that really puts the individual in the hero spot versus the company is the hero and the guru. That's one element in making sure all the user experiences very up to speed. I was just auditing a website for my friend's business, one of his competitors. You know, I went on it. It was loading slow. It looked like it was built in 1995. It had about 300 testimonials on it. It had one of those like loud, shouting, you know, buy now style buttons.

And that's a just-in-fly with digital marketing in 2024. And I see so many, you know, copywriters, funnel builders who had funnels that were successful in 2010. And they keep on trying to rinse and repeat that 14 years down the line of that just not how the world works anymore. So that's the creative element of this rapid prototyping. So I hate it when people want to just launch, you know, a few. few creatives, few copy, few targeting, and set it and forget it, like it's a billboard.

The advantage of digital marketing is that you can test so many different elements of your campaign and really figure out the bottleneck of what stopping conversions from happening for your organization. And then lastly, is connecting marketing to a P&L statement. So how does marketing actually help to grow a business? Because any CEO who you talk to is not going to care about your click through rate, your impressions, you know, reach. is actually helping me generate highly qualified leads

and are those leads becoming customers advice. I love that you went in and you talked about the stuff about time. Hey, if it worked 10 years ago, that's adorable. We don't live in that world. We always talk about what have you done today. I also love that you talked about, you know, getting, getting likes, getting followers, and clicks that's adorable. But how does it affect about one?

No one's in here just to create a relationship. We're just going to talk to people and they're going to come to our site. No, that's not the world we live. It's about a bottom line. If you're going to talk about scaling, and they're going to do these things in a very effective way that there's a very specific way. So can you give me an example of the streaming billboards

and funnels that were there, you know, in years ago, good God. That are kind of like the, as soon as you see it, like the top three mistakes, you're like, just don't do this. When it comes to it, these are the three things you see all the time that it'll just save people, just don't do these three things. And then we can get into very specific

when we talk about creative impact and creating profit going through, you know, how do the method of all this? Like, hey, guys, if you never interact with Andrew ever again, do that. So, you know, first of all, one of the three big mistakes that people are just, good God, why are you doing? I'm going to add a few in here. So if I don't get around to three, you know, remind me.

So, and I'll give some recent examples of what I've seen. So one is a, a project of ours where they had a prior advertising consultant on it. And chatting with the CEO, you know, catching up with them, hearing what's going on, and he was super pissed off because he was not getting reporting from this individual. So getting your data, getting your reporting organized is a must in digital marketing. If you think just sending an email to the CEO saying like, your campaign was good or I spent this, you know, this happened. Sure, they know, money's hopefully coming back in, but we're digital marketers and we need providing much more in-depth reporting

to clients or in-house, whatever that dynamic looks like. What tools are you using for that? Would you have ones that you specifically enjoy better than other ones when it comes to doing that reporting so you can give that report properly to it? Like, which ones do you rely on? So we do a lot of Microsoft Excel.

We're a lot of hand-to-hand combat with that. So we have all these custom formulas and everything that we built for years, which is how we populate our data into that. So we not only produce a report for clients, but then we set a weekly breakdown, analyzing everything that we're working on with not only the data,

but then our color commentary, like we're Pat McAfee, breaking down everything that's going on. We also include a loon video explaining that, and we have a weekly call with all of our clients to hash out their campaigns and talk face to face. This is one of the things you and I have in common. The combination of whatever you said

also connected to a loom video. Lunes are so mission critical. You can do it. You can rapid fire them really fast and it gets over there and it saves so much time. Also, I get to cheat a little bit here and take a little bit of a break from the podcast and know that you also have an Excel spreadsheet with your misses because you're expecting the little one very soon. So I'm cheating here and saying mazzletoff. I'm exceptionally happy for you. I'm glad that she's mapped everything out. Sorry, back to the podcast.

Just I thought that was going to be a, uh, everything here. Thank you. I thought that was going to be a sponsorship from her shot. You know, here we go. Not at all. She does it. You know, yeah, we'll be transparent. All right.

So, Excel, Loom, those are the things, getting the thing. So that's one example. What's another thing that mistakes that people aren't doing other than not getting data and not getting specific reports? I would say another big thing is forcing Facebook ads as the first advertising medium. So we've been around since 2012. back then Facebook was cool. You know, people loved Mark Zuckerberg, Rakey as a Wiz kid.

Public perception, as Facebook has changed. Yeah, it's swapped on its head. iOS 14 happened. Russia, Hackin, or whatever was going on with that, Cambridge Analytica, there's just been so much going on with Facebook over the years that it's not the, you know,

just click a button and results happen, which is what it was feeling like for years from, you know, 13 to 20 or whatever that time horizon look like. So we really want to work with a brand and figure out what advertising medium actually makes sense for them. And in some cases, Facebook ads don't make sense. We just started working with a B2B SaaS organization who's doing, who has an AI product. And Facebook ads does not make sense in this scenario to get in front of senior vice presidents, or presidents of organizations, I believe is our avatar. We're going to much different route to get in touch with them between some LinkedIn, LinkedIn outreach initiatives

with email. We're advocating to do a podcast, actually, as well for that organization. We think that's a better way to get in front of presidents of organizations. We're not talking about like your mom and pop for trying to get in front of presidents of like Fortune 500 companies. So we're very much meeting them where they're at and where their avatar is. Let me kind of rapid flyer some industries and you can kind of tell, hey, yes, No, yes, let's see if that kind of fits in. So if you're a, if you're selling some sort of goods online, you're a digital, you're selling some sort of pretty like Amazon fulfillment type of thing, where would you kind of say,

hey, this is where you kind of want to look versus the versus not here. If you're trying to do something like that. Well, I would say in general, Facebook is great in B to C environments. When you're getting into B to B, that's where the question can arise. And I had to give this caveat. So this is a long way for me to answer your question is that I had a friend. who worked at a B2B SaaS company, and they'd split-tested all the platforms at once.

The best results came through Instagram. So at the end of the day, we have to put it out and test and see what happens. And I don't know the specifics of why Instagram was their best advertising medium, but it beat out Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, and YouTube through their split testing. You have a platform that you've seen just universally that has the best. or why or is it just so unique based on the type of industry that you're playing? B2C Facebook for sure.

Everything else is so specific to that organization and what they've going on. And also, when you think about another platform, there's other things to think about. For instance, keyword volume. Is there even a keyword volume level and are people actively searching for that? So if you have a coaching product, for instance, that might not be something something, someone is seeking out via a Google AdWords campaign versus we work with this Italian retreat center. And the keyword volume for like fancy yoga retreat Europe is out of control. So Google does great with them.

And that was actually where we started our campaigns. So it is phenomenally different, but you have to test it. And what tools and what are the methodologies that, again, these are people wanting to scale their businesses. They want to get to them excellent. These aren't people just starting. the people who listen to this are scaling. What are some of the tools or some of the ways that you have proven that you can test? And I will go back to one more example that don't do.

But I want to make sure we don't lose this. If you're testing, what are some of the tools that you're like, this works really well, this doesn't work really well? We've had really good experience with this versus that when it comes to testing your products. In terms of software that you could use to run this, split tests. That would be a better question for some of our advertisers. of the specific software that we're using, let me bring it back to more of variations of creatives.

That would be great. So we'll deploy, depending on the ad spend budget, which is going to influence how many creatives you'll deploy. So let's say it's a first month of split testing. You're doing three to five thousand per month. We would probably recommend a combination of eight variations of copy and then eight variations of design,

motion animated gifts video for that campaign. When you have a much higher ad spend budget, that's when you need to really, you know, increase the number of craters that you're going to be split testing and deploy. By default, you want to start with at least a different variance of that ad copy. In that 3 to 5K per month ad spend budget, that's what a lot of our campaigns look like.

Love it. All right, so we've got two mistakes. Let's get back to the third mistake. What is the third mistake that you can, buying that people run into just all the time. Unrealistic expectations. We, I was not on this call, but I got a debrief earlier this afternoon of someone on their team. We have brought down their webinar CPL from 15 to 250 this in Q1.

He thinks a webinar CPL and a Facebook advertising campaign should be below a dollar. Well, that's what we said as well. He spoke very enthusiastically about how that's realistic. And I don't know if he worked for Tony Robbins and that what Tony Robbins pulls off, but completely unrealistic expectation of what's possible in each type. And I'll break this down more for Facebook. Depending on the type of lead generation campaign you're running, the CPL is going to vary.

So if you're doing a quiz campaign, under a dollar is probably possible. With that, you're going to get a high volume, but people do quizzes all the time, and they just take it and leave. A webinar campaign is a much higher call to action for an individual. And it's a much bigger commitment to, you know, put on your calendar, show up for 45 minutes, which is why you're going to have a higher CPL. So we're thinking $5 to $7 for a webinar CPL is pretty solid in 2024. or solid, under a dollar is completely ridiculous. Never going to happen. And I love what people are like, well, Tony Robbins.

I'm like, are you going to Robbins? I'm like, are you going to Robert? And also, I think it's really important where people are watching that. When we're going to do the CPLs, again, this doesn't matter. It's about impact of profit to your bottom one. That's all it matters. Look at your P&Ls, your profit or loss statements. How is this extra?

Are you generating income for this? And I think that goes into where, you know, we've got the mistakes, but your focus isn't on, hey, am I getting, am I lowering? at this the lowest cost or am I getting the best exposure? You're one of the things I love about you is like, am I increasing my bottom law? Caring or how are we helping you earn more money so you can scale your business? So now that we know the three things that are just, don't do that, which the last one's, I'm shocking.

There's no business I've ever worked in that they have unreal expectations. That's shocking. Now that to do that, if they want to scale and they want to, you know, obviously help out their bottom line, what are some of the things? your process that you go through that you found that works just religiously? The impact with profit methodology or just in general, let me, I'm going to address that, but also talk through what our three phases of running a campaign looks like, which ties into the impact with profit methodology.

So we made a huge shift in our business model in 2021. So 2021 was when iOS 14 happened. when King Kong and Godzilla, Facebook, and Apple started fighting of each other. And we were just the faith, did you like that metaphor? Yeah, yeah, I've heard that. Or, but now it's going to stick. I'm stuck with that now forever. Thank you.

It's another one thing. We were just the Facebook advertising team before iOS 14. So, IS14 was happening, and we thought we might be out of business in six months. There was about a six-month window of a warning. So we decided to ship the business model to one, hire a team of fractional chief marketing officers to start our client projects and then build up our back-end services so we can support clients in a bigger variety of ways within digital marketing. So the phase one with us is consulting with a fractional chief marketing officer.

We did that because I love advertisers. They're our core competency of our business model. they're also not the right person to think holistically about an entire business. They're also usually not the right person to feel the wrath of a CEO who's pissed that you miss your financial numbers. So we want that fractural CMO. Oh, go ahead. No, this is why when people come in all the time and they're with what my CFO is telling this or my bookkeeper is telling me this. I'm like, your bookkeeper doesn't make decisions about where we're going with.

the company. It just tells me what's going on, but do not let him do that. It's kind of like letting your gardener decide what you're going to eat. It's not that it's not a good gardener. It's a phenomenal gardener. Love what he does. My landscape looks amazing. I appreciate you for taking care of everything, but you're not going to decide what goes into my body. And then vice versa. I'm not the guy who makes my meals decide on my lawn. Go look. So it's no offense. And this is important. I know because you gave a little bit of favor, I love marketers. Yes. it's important when you're scaling or hiring or doing anything to stay in your lane. You've got a lane, know your lane, stay in your lane, double down on your strength,

outsource your weaknesses. It's just a huge thing. Get ego out of the way. I think it's the biggest problem I run into whenever I'm scaling people's companies when I'm brought in. It's the owner. They think this is my baby or I know everything. That's everything I'm like, you don't. You do my favorite example, this is Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs says, as long as I'm alive, we're never going to do an iPad meeting. We're never selling them. They're never going to take off. He released the iPad Mini, and now they saw like crazy, and people were dying. So, sorry, even Steve Jobs. Anyway, just wanted an input on that one because people don't get it. He's not picking on marketers. Just stay in your lane.

Higher people are designed to do this, X, don't expect them to do all. And a lot of times business owners or marketing departments don't understand their data. So it's impossible to scale when you don't understand your numbers. So the fractional CMO in phase one is thinking holistically about really the entire business model and what role marketing has. So doing historical data gathering analysis, understanding the funnel, the Facebook ad campaigns, the messaging, the branding, the avatar, all those things that financial forecasts and go-to-market plans. And then we come up with a new go-to-market plan for an organization. So within that, we have, you know, the P&L statement, that's part of that. The split testing recommendations are part of that.

And then the creatives as well. And phase two for us is overhauling creatives. This is super important in a post iOS 14 world. Before iOS 14, a lot of advertising success was based upon your targeting and just pixeling and, you know, following people around the internet until infinity. That's no longer an option because of iOS 14 and people opting out. So creatives are super important. And we don't want to pass that.

It's like, have you, what's his Peter Thiel? We don't want to have the Peter Thiel approach to branding. I don't know if you've ever heard that inside joke. It's probably not appropriate for this. But he doesn't know, we'll probably get out with that. We'll do it after recording. We'll do it in the break. We'll leave four Peter alone.

So we want to make sure you're having all the right creatives deployed not only in your advertising campaign, the copy, the design, the video, but making sure you're back in, sales funnel is actually going to nurture those leads up to the point of sale. And whether that's, you know, a B2C business, that's a completely, you know, virtual checkout process via right, PayPal, whatever, or if they're actually being handed off to a sales route and making sure that's a smooth process. And then for us, phase three is when we actually start running our marketing campaigns.

And whether that's, you know, advertising on Facebook, you know, YouTube, Google, wherever that is, There are instances with B2B organizations what we do LinkedIn outreach or email outreach campaigns and then from there, yeah, we're aligned in goals for running the marketing campaigns and, you know, let's run our split testing and start scaling. I like that we've, because you have all these books

and I was just going through it, I was boxing up with things and I had all the books that I got from Russell Bronson years and years ago about how big, there are all these funnels books. They're like, oh, they're so adorable. It was kind of like looking at a yearbook that I had when I was in high school. And I was like,

Paul, okay, that doesn't work anymore. Things are changing so radically and so impressive. I remember I was sitting down as an event and I was getting an argument with somebody. No, the iOS, the iOS dominates the market. That is most iOS, you know, there's more iOS phones than there are Android phones. And I was like,

you want to double trick your data. Because things was changed. We have this ballroom where just things aren't the way they used to be. So I love that you've taken this approach of going, hey, there was this way, and then King Kong Godzilla showed up, and these radically changed. All right, so we understand what mistakes people are doing. We understand that things are started to change, and there's a specific three-phrase process, and I love that your process doesn't start with, all right, that's just one of those Facebook ads and spray and clay,

and hope that the pixel only just pot people and become stalkers, which I know this is a surprise that doesn't work anymore. So if you guys are trying to do that and you're trying to scale, stop. So let's talk about what does create a profit. And let's talk about what does affect you. So walk me through that and say, okay, if people are sitting here right now going, all right, I get it. Andrew knows what he's talking about. I get that I made some of these mistakes, which hopefully you do not make the third

one. That's embarrassing. But hopefully you're in a situation. We're like, okay, what do I need to do? What are things that I can do right now that I can be able pull over, take notes, and say, okay, these are things that I need to do right now that I can do before I move to the next step, be it, you know, a problem. start stalking you and bothering you and your team.

So what are the things they can do now? I'll just shout out a few. So one of them is making sure you have your tracking ecosystem set up correctly. We had a previous client last year who had, where they, they were in like WordPress and then they were in ClickFunnels. They were in Go High Level. I think they had two, I think they might have had five different CRM tracking ecosystem. It was a complete nightmare. So it was actually impossible for us to run any advertising

campaign until they cleaned that up. So when you were doing that and they switched over, what are the things that you took them to? We were like, all right, how are we cleaning this up? What is the process that you do to help them clean that out? Do you have any recommendations of things that they could do? This was too much for us. So we said, you need to pick her this out of yourself. No, see, and I load that. You're just people understand. Like, oh, well, he's going to give me this advice. Sometimes the best advice you could do is outsource that. I'm the king of outsource everything because I don't need a full-time CFO. I don't need a full-time CFO.

I don't need a full-time CMO. There are times where I just need a fractural horse. You come in, fix this, get out of the way. It's just these per diem type of work. You know, we used to do this all the time when I worked at hospice. You don't always need a full-time nurse. Sometimes you just then that they're per die and you as need them. So it just, it is what it is.

Now, going back to the fact that you're about to out a little one, you do need a full-time nanny, a part-time nanny, a nighted nanny. a nighttime manny, a bird, so you need everything. I'm just saying, so you got to make a bunch more money.

You have a staff of at least 70 to 80,000 people helping you out at all time. Good far. All right. So, back to these next thing. All right,

so you're organizing data. So getting the tracking ecosystem all figured out, that's a super important thing. Let me even backtrack a little bit. And if this is not answering your question, let me know, is we think about offer testing in three phases.

You know, I've been very much describing a company who's ready to scale. There are some instances of a client who has a completely new product to market. They might be bootstrap. It's, you know, just reinvesting profits back in. Maybe they got some angel money. Maybe it's just, you know, quick loan. So we recommend one testing your offer with your email list. If people who know, like, and trust you from your existing audience and social aren't going to buy from you,

Facebook ads is not the right thing. and you probably don't have a product market fit. So let's make sure that's aligned. Second tier is let's make sure, you know, this is converting via affiliates. This is going to give us another vote of confidence that you have product market fit. And then the third tier is really what I've been emphasizing today,

which is more of the, you know, scale mode for an organization. So we really want to make sure that there's product market fit. And you can bypass one and two if you have the capital and just go straight to ads and figure out you have product market fit. But for a lot of companies, it's going to save them a lot of headache and, you know, pissed off conversations with the marketing team if they don't actually have a product market fit and they don't have anything differentiated. Yeah, don't be that guy that thought it would be a thousand.

I don't recommend in any shape or form, for me personally, in my experience, even if it's a short window, you're going to want to test it. You want to test it with people already KLT. You're going to want to sit there and just interact with them and see what their reactions are. You know, when we started out and we were doing the scale lab and we were creating the lab reports, we tried this very detailed just books, just had walls of information. And we found out that the information was phenomenal, but we overwhelmed the audience. It was just too many things based on our design.

Now, if we had gone to market and pushed this all out and gone nuts, we would have gotten even, we wouldn't have known why it wouldn't have known why it wasn't a convert. But because we gave it to an environment of people who actually we enjoyed talking to it, I exposed it to my master line, they're like, oh, love the data. It's too much. You fried my brain. I was like, okay, what do we do? Then I expend it out to four or five more pages.

Don't try and jam everything. And we're like, oh, but I wouldn't have gotten that feedback from a Facebook guy. I wouldn't have gotten that. I wouldn't just, it doesn't work. And I said, well, I don't have a product market. I'm just, I'm so well. So I think it's really important to go out and reach beyond your friends and family because they're all I to you.

No, it's a surprise. But go out and reach out to, hey, this is what I have. This is what's going on. Is it converting? It's just going to generate an income straight for me. And I think those steps. When you're doing this, and you're doing this testing.

And this is just me kind of finding out. Do you have copies or ads or things that are like, hey, we tried this. It didn't work or examples that I might be able to squeeze out of you down the road. We can put them into the lap report. The second. I'm sure they're at a Google folder somewhere that I don't know how to operate. So they're in our back end system somewhere. Awesome.

I'm going to, I'll reach out your team and we'll get exact examples of like before and after and we'll try and do it into the report to help people out. Okay. You know what's the same thing? I'll give one example of, yes, some split test of ours that we were wrong about. So we have some clients who can film very high quality produced video. And we told them let's split test and just take an iPhone and record something. There are instances where the iPhone selfie video actually does better than the highly produced video as it feels more authentic and you're talking to a friend.

I'm not saying that's, you know, all cases, but we had one who her best ads for the longest time were just her under a tree as it was kind of like a hippie-ish product, just like I vote a selfie video and it felt like a friend was introducing you to the brand and it felt more personal versus the highly produced, you know, video and video team and hair and makeup. People in our belief just didn't feel connected to the CEO in their vision. So that's a test that didn't work.

for us. Yeah, I love that because it's those little idiosyncrasies that matter. For example, we were doing, I was working with a client and we were trying to, you know, get better interaction and get better impressions, get people, you know, spend more time. And we changed the titles. We had you, how you can earn more money or how you, we added you, the power of you. We then took that and be so, okay, but we're going to personalize this in a white paper. We're going to sit there and say, hey, this is what you need to do, because at the time, I was doing tech, we're like, you know, this is how you need you do install. Maybe you have not done this or you haven't done this. And it just, we got, we got,

or feedback. They hated that. So we feel like you're attacking us because you don't think we know that I don't install a printer paper. And we're like, wait, what? So what works over here in the social media world of having how you can make money or having a very personalized that gets a message to you just like your client did with a cell phone. It felt like you're talking to a friend. That doesn't always work in other environment. So this is why it's so important.

You know, you talk about having about eight tests. It's so important a test and understanding that what might have worked six months ago doesn't work anymore. You know, a great example of that is COVID. COVID change the bargain. It just, it is what it is. It does, things do not operate in the same world because the environment has changed. So it just isn't. You have to constantly be testing. You constantly talking to someone like it, Andrew. That's going to help you through that and say, hey, I live and breathe this stuff.

This is my world. I love marketing. Bless you guys and scaling it and what you guys do. God bless you guys. It's kind of like when I talk to my account and new tax laws comes out. He gets excited about it and he tells me about it. I try my best not to fall asleep in the middle of lunch, but it happens. I are so inspired than you get out of your way, understand what worked this month isn't going to work next month

or a little bit more. So when we've got that, we're doing these different tests, we're making it personalized but trying these different things. You're testing on their own before you spend all the money on Facebook and we're going to show some examples

of what works and doesn't work. Where do we go from there? What is our next step if we're sitting at home and they want to try something? What is the next thing they can do? I would say, And I'll bring it back to someone who might be more in the do I have a product market fit? And then I'll get into, you know, you're ready to scale.

So do you have product market fit? I'm going to bring it back again to test your offer via your existing social media, you know, fans and community, your email database, find some friends who can do some affiliate mailing. One of our clients, he had awesome success with his docu series going around to some people in his very specific niche on after-elect communication and trying to get them to host screenings of his film and a donation-based model.

So he did that, you know, rinse and repeat however many times it was and build up and up data that we were able to go to an organization with a 600,000 person email database with his exact avatar of a person and say,

hey, this is what we've done in all these tests. If you mail for us, you know, with two or three emails, this is a revenue we think could come back to your business with, you know, copy and paste us, it out and you could just be making money like that.

I'm oversimplifying this by that. That's what they built up. And then went to, you know, the mega affiliate partner who then did the mailing for them. And I love that it was a stepped approach. They'd just go to the mega affiliate partner and said spray and frame. They were like, okay, I know exactly my audiences. I know exactly how they respond. I know exactly what words I need to use.

I have my offer flushed out. I know my offer works, which is a huge problem that some people have. you'll drive the people to the site, to the funnel, to whatever it is, or to the person on the phone, and it just won't convert as you haven't perfected that process. You know, overnight success takes over and years. So it just, it takes time to do it and you think it's so important. It's going to save you time and it's going to save you money when you're scaling this to have this data that has been analyzed with a fine-tute comb so you know what works.

You know, I know it sounds crazy, but when you send messages out matters. Not only the text, not only the content, not only the copy, but when, When it's actually been set up, morning, it's at noon, Saturday, Tuesday. All of these things matter when you're scaling. And each one of those, as we talked about before, it's different. It's different based on your niche. It differ based on your product and market, if it just makes sense. It's just, it's, there's so many different little things.

And since you've done that for so long, are there certain tests that you're like, you know what? These type of tests or these type of things, we know when in doubt, if the person knows is going to get one type of swing at this and they can only do one or very small swings do these type of tests first versus these other type of tests so that we do create that impact and we do create that profit lines with. Let me bring it back to kind of the phasin report is we really want to understand what is the bottleneck to scale. And this can be a lot of different situations and I'll give you some use cases.

And I hope this answers your question in a roundabout way. So we just had a recent client who came on board and as we were analyzing, you know, why can't they scale? They had a live launch in the fall. They really think they could double it. You know, what's the reason? And a big part of that was simply because they had the wrong person in the right seat or is that, yeah, wrong person in the wrong seat. This person was not right in any scenario. He was a very junior marketer trying to scale a campaign. So it was really at that situation, you just, made a bad hire. And if you want to scale, you need to bring in

these and marketers to take this to the next level. We had a different use case with a client where they just simply weren't willing to test enough creatives. You know, the campaign had plateaued out, which happens when you're scaling in Facebook world and it can be a lot of different situations. You know, their target audience, you know, was hit up way too many times with the same creatives.

They need to do a lot more testing. and, you know, stop outsourcing to, you know, Asia for $10 an hour because we know it's cheap, but it's equally as crappy. So. Or which is sometimes. Yes, exactly. We had another use case of a client from a few years ago where they had an in-house marketer who was the right person in the wrong seat, different scenarios at first one.

So he was great at copy, email marketing, just overall marketing strategy. and he picked up doing Facebook ads for them just, you know, because he was a marketer. So he got it to 3K a month in Aspen and could never break through to the next level. So he delegated out to us, you know, seasoned marketers and marketing agency. And we've spent anywhere from 10 to 60-ish per month, depending on, you know, offers and all those things. So they really just needed to get this guy into his own genius. And yeah, he built the campaign to 3K, but he wasn't the right person to go from 3 to 50K per month in ad spec.

You always use the example, the analogy of Tarzan. When you're swinging through the vines, you're holding out of the one vine and then you grab another one. Sometimes you've got to let go of the one that's really safe and security. You've got to let it go in order to keep that moment. And in this case, with this marketer, you know, a marketer's not a scaler. Sorry, any marketers out there. You're going to try and kill me for that.

you're not scalers. And your scalers aren't systems guys. Sorry. And it's just important to get out of the way and fix these things and to understand that what person who got you here isn't going to get you there. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with this person. Just as you said, let them sit in their zone of genius.

And they do these type of things. So this is what it is. One of the things that when you talk about your genius, what are the things that you're like, wow, this is what my agency does better than anybody else. This is our, this is our model. This is what really, really, you know, we know the mistakes. We know the things that people are making mistakes for.

When you sit there and say, hey, when we show up, we talk, okay, Andrew, holy crap, this is what they do better than anyone else. And this is the stuff that's, you know, you're getting consistent results with. What are the things that you have found that you're like, you know, this is why we do what we do. This is this stuff that I do. These are some of the things that, without giving away the special sauce, but the stuff that I didn't know what? This is it. We found out that when we put flamingos on babies and make them run around in circles,

it would work, whatever that, whatever that narrative is. I would say for us, what we're most well known for is media buying for online education organizations. So it's an organization coming to us who wants to grow and scale their, you know, Facebook, Google, YouTube. We don't really like LinkedIn and TikTok, never had great success, but we know how to operate of those platforms. And their product, Zach,

tends to be books to courses, to events, certification training programs. What am I missing? Maybe there's one more, but that whole product stack, you know, we'll take on clients

who won't be in that vertical from time to time. That's really a game time call with us. We worked with a pro soccer team a few years ago as a lifelong soccer player. You know, I wasn't going to pass that opportunity. I've mentioned some B2B SaaS organizations

we've worked with. that's very because I have a few individuals on my team who have a B2B SaaS background and I know they could come and deliver in that situation. So really the clients come to us because they have that scaling problem with our media buying campaigns. And they don't know why they can't go from 3 to 50K per month or whatever that looks like in that situation. Or they're at a big launch and they need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. And they're like, how the heck do we do this? and, yeah, stop outsourcing to Asia for $10 an hour. Sometimes a, you know, a premium.

There are some people in Asia that are phenomenal, but like my vignayes and the Philippines, and that's kind of that Asian environment, she's phenomenal. I love Christine, or like I possibly tell you, but Christine will tell you, I'm not a Facebook market. Isn't that what I hear? Now what I do. So find the person, not saying that there's not people who can,

but find the person to get, and be willing to pay for it because from what I found is, Whenever I tried to go cheap, whatever I, especially was marketing, it always bites into me. So what are some things that if you've got someone, they're like, all right, you know what, I get it. I know I'm going to drop a couple bucks to get this done. What are some of the things that I can do now to prepare myself before I get on the call, before I drop X, Y, Z dollars that I can get my ducks in a row that someone can do before they go, right, here, what's going on?

You know, we already talked about, you know, doing some of this testing in your own network with people already that KLTU. We already talked about doing that, but when we're talking about writing copy or talking about doing creatives, are there certain places that are like, you know what?

I really like these are people who are doing creative reading. I don't recommend. Take a look at that. Other than just your competition, yeah, these are some of the places that have some really great resources that we can kind of give people

who are listening to the podcast, like, okay, I get it. I got to get my ducks on the road to save time before I do so I want to. Yeah. Let me clarify. I have nothing against talent from Asia. that was not a hate code

that was going on. I know what I was also trying to say don't just take the cheaper route because it's cheap. Just making that disclaimer, you know, nothing against Facebook advertisers, nothing against anyone. We're going to divide your home address

and your own phone over and we're going to send it to all of Asia and they're going to come find you. We're going to give them the gate code to that they can get in and you get to talk to the direct. So I would say, you know, if you're in the, you know, coaching oriented space with those product mark,

product stack that I mentioned, I always say check out what Tony Robbins is doing. I think his team is top of the line and just everything that they do, not only from the virtual conferences they put on, their creatives. I think they're very top notch. What you can also do is go to a website called Facebook Ads Library, which allows you to see all ads run by,

any Facebook page. So if there are people in your vertical that you want to do some competitor analysis on, go to Facebook ads library and they'll be able to show you, you know, everything that they're doing. Exactly what they're doing. And then those are the ones you create those kind of eight tests from. You know, you got to test. Okay, well, this is what, you know, Susan's my competition. You know, I really think that she's doing great.

You can actually put that up and start working with your team. And then, again, when you go and you do find someone who clearly is not from Asia at this point, I'm so sending them your address. You can give and say, these are the people that are in my niche. These are the people that are in my vertical. This is what they're doing. Here, let's talk about.

This is what I've got. And that'll help out. This is what we try to create. And before you start getting into the environment, because again, this is, you know, seriously, when you get to this point and you're paying the five, six figures at ad spending, you're doing these campaigns that are at that level.

You want to make sure you're as effective as possible. And that doesn't, for me, happen at the five to six figure level one. That happens when you're lower. they're doing these baby tests and you're doing it with people you already know, just like the example I gave. I gave it earlier. So I know you've got to wrap it up and we got to get going here.

If there's one thing that you could tell someone, please don't do this and one thing you could tell, please do do do this. They're going to be used to that very soon. You got a little one coming so get used to that. One of the two things, and those two divides. And again, mausel tough on having a little. So thank you. Don't do this.

Absolutely do this. One of those two things. Um, do this incorporate video into your marketing, whether that's in your advertising campaigns, um, and your Laney page or email sequences, just more video the better. Uh, the example I gave earlier of the split test between the selfie video and the highly produced video and just know, like, you can get by with a lot just on your cell phone. Uh, um, so don't do. Um, I'm going to go back I was going to go back to the whole unrealistic expectations. The way we break goals with clients is we reverse engineer back.

Instead of just, you know, pulling something out of thin air of like $1 CPL on a webinar funnel, that makes no sense. That's ever going to happen. Or clients who want to have, I was just chatting with someone last week who wanted 40 booked sales meetings per week to go from zero to 40. And so I was like, yeah, I was like, okay, that's, that's a lot great. Yeah. It's really good to what things.

It doesn't mean it's going to happen. All right. Last question, because I didn't get to wrap it up here. Is there one book? It doesn't even have to be related to what you're doing. One book, you're like, this book absolutely changed my life. I highly recommend it. Is there one book you're out?

Charles's book, which I don't know the name of, but I've never read. I'm just kidding. Thank you. I don't look away for free. That doesn't care. I was going to go look over here real quick because I have a really good book I want to bring on camera. Go for it. By the way, as you guys can tell, completely out of prepared for this.

I like doing this. I like dropping random questions for those you guys who follow. Sorry. Andrew was not prepared. So what do you got? I'm only half the way through with this. Whoa. you hear a little audio issues there.

So I'm only half the way through with this. It's called Fanatical Prospecting. Because I had such a huge influx of sales meetings I started to book, I put a pause on it. I was like, I've done so much already. I can see, I'm not even halfway through. I'm like an eighth of the way through this book. This is fantastic.

It was recommended to me by a friend who's a fractional VP of sales. and a little fire under my butt of, you know, it was one of those like, oh, I'm a POS. I'm not doing nearly enough of what I need to do. So that was a great book that I'm in the middle of reading. And so what was the name of the book again? It is fanatical prospecting by Jeb. I was going to say blunt, but blount.

But close enough. All right. Perfect. Thank you so much, Andrew, for jumping on the podcast. We'll get all those resources. I will have my team reach out and reach out and get some of those trades for you. So any last things you want to wrap up before we go away? I just want to say goodbye to that, people.

I'll just say goodbye and adios. Shabashalom. That's it for today's episode. Here's the truth. What work yesterday won't work for tomorrow. And we'll work for someone else might not work for you. Test everything, measure everything, never stop adapting, and only implement what's proven.