Realfoodology - 3: How Danika Koopmans Manages Her MS Without Medication

Episode Date: September 23, 2020

Today's episode is such an incredible and inspiring story. I interview my friend Danika Koopmans, MSN-FNP, about her journey with Multiple Sclerosis and how she got off her meds. It’s such a good reminder of how resilient our bodies are and how much diet and lifestyle changes can affect the way our bodies operate.  I also want to take this time to remind you that neither of us are doctors and your experience is individual. We are bio individual with different experiences. This information is not meant to treat anyone and you should always talk to your doctor about anything regarding your own health. If you would like me to answer your question on air, email [e-mail]  Instagram: @health.intentionally https://www.instagram.com/health.intentionally/ Facebook: Health Intentionally https://www.facebook.com/healthintentional/ Website: https://healthintentional.com/ Podcast: Hijack your Health https://www.buzzsprout.com/1201931  Email: [e-mail]

Hi guys, welcome to episode three of the Real Foodology podcast. My name is Courtney Swan. Today's episode is a really incredible, inspiring story. I interviewed my friend Danica about her journey with multiple sclerosis and getting off her meds. And it's just, it was such a good reminder to me of how resilient our bodies are and how much diet and lifestyle changes can really affect the way our bodies operate. It's a really cool story. I'm excited for you guys to hear it. Listening back though, I realized that we never actually talked about what MS is. So for those of you listening who are not sure what it is, it's a disease of the brain and spinal cord. The immune system actually attacks the myelin sheath that covers

nerve fibers and causes communication problems between your brain and the rest of your body. Eventually over time, this disease can cause permanent damage or deterioration of the nerves and it can be a pretty serious diagnosis, but it's not a death sentence. I also want to take this time to remind you that neither of us are doctors and your experience is individual. Like I always like to say, we're all bio individual. And this information is not meant to treat anyone. And you should always talk to your doctor about anything regarding your own health. With that, let's get to the episode. One thing I really want to do on this podcast is to answer all of your questions that you might have. I get so many people on Instagram asking me questions all about nutrition, health, wellness. Sometimes I don't have time to answer all of those. So I wanted to use this platform to start

answering some of those questions for you guys. I'm hoping eventually that I can start having you call in and we can have like a real discussion about it on air. But in the meantime, I'm just going to answer these questions that I get on Instagram. Feel free to message me on my Instagram at real foodology, and I will try to get to all of your questions. You can also email the show at real foodology podcast at gmail.com. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of us are concerned about aging. There is a class of ingredients called senolytics that were discovered less than 10 years ago, and they are being called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime. Now, when I'm talking about aging here, I'm not just talking

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If you want to try any of the products from our place, go to from our place.com and enter my code real foodology checkout to receive 10% off site-wide that's from our place.com code real foodology. Our place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. Today's question comes from Samantha. She slid in my DMS on Instagram and she said, Courtney during quarantine, I have been trying to switch to a healthier diet. I am in thriving, but I'm having a hard time getting my husband and kids to eat healthy as well. I generally cook the meals because my husband can't be trusted. I feel you girl. But anytime I cook them something healthy, I get a lot of angry faces. Do you have any tips or tricks on how I can get them to crave less junk food and make healthier choices?

Okay. I really love this question because I can relate, even though I sit in front of you now eating a lot healthier. When I was younger, I really struggled. I had a sugar addiction and I just didn't make great choices myself because I had a lot of cravings for different things that I didn't want to give up. So I would say my number one trick is start making healthier versions of their favorite kind of food. So let's say that your husband loves pizza, go and get a good clean. Well, actually, okay. So you could either buy like a frozen pizza crust. Um, you could get one at Trader Joe's probably at Walmart target

whole foods. You want to get an organic one that has really clean ingredients. You could get gluten-free if you wanted him to try to get gluten-free, but you could also just get one that's made with organic wheat, really clean whole ingredients. And you only want there to be a couple of ingredients in there, like salt flour, um, as you would typically see in pizza dough. And then I would get an organic marinara sauce. If you're on a budget, you can find these at Trader Joe's whole foods, three 65 brand. I think you can get them for one 99 to 99 and you can get organic clean one that only has, you know, again, like five ingredients and then get organic cheese that way. Then you

can start retraining his palate to expect more cleaner, healthier foods, but he's still getting his favorite stuff like pizza. You can do the same thing with tacos, get siete tortillas. If you can't afford those, get just a generic organic tortilla. Um, that would be my number one tip. Also I can add in from experience one more thing with the kids. So I used to be a nanny and I really struggled getting these kids to eat vegetables. So what I started to do was I would sneak in vegetables in their food that they loved already. So let's just say, for example, you're making pasta.

When you make that pasta sauce, throw in a bunch of different veggies and blend it. So like put like a handful of spinach in there, maybe some broccoli, throw it in the blender and pulverize it. And then they're not even going to know that those veggies are in there when you make the pasta. And those are my tips. If you guys have any other questions, please don't forget to email realfoodologypodcast at gmail.com and I will answer your questions on air.

And with that, let's bring on Danica. I'm really stoked about this interview today. The woman that I am bringing on today, I actually met a couple of weeks ago, virtually via zoom. And she is the founder of health intentionally. And she was doing this summit called revitalize your health. And she asked me to come on and she wanted to interview me about real food. And we had an amazing conversation about it. And I was so touched by your story that I felt like I wanted to bring you on. But first of all, before we get into your story, her name is Danica, Danica Koopmans. Thank you so much for being here today. Why don't you give everyone a little bit of background? Hi, thank you for having me. And obviously, I'm super stoked to connect with you

again, because this is fun, and you are awesome on my series. So thank you for having me. I guess, you know, a little bit of my background, I think it's fair to kind of share who is telling you this information and why my story is the way it is. So I am an RN and I just finished my master's of science in nursing to be a family nurse practitioner. So what that really means is I sort of came to my passion in nutrition actually through the Western medicine door. And from Western medicine knowledge to a diagnosis that I'm sure we'll get into, I now see how I can bridge the gap between Western medicine and nutrition. And that's really where my passion was formed. Is that kind of a stare at my background, I guess? Yeah, which I actually, I think that's such an important thing that you

brought up. And yeah, it's really cool. I'm very excited for people to hear your story because oftentimes when people talk about alternative health or the power of real food, there's often a conversation that, well, they don't know the real science or they don't know, um, they don't recognize Western medicine. And the cool thing about integrative health, which is what I love so much is that it's, it's exactly what you're saying. It's the merging of the two holistic alternative health and merging it with Western medicine. Because of course we need Western medicine. Like this is, it's not even a question. We wouldn't be here today without it, but we also can't throw out the holistic side and we can't forget the power of the body and the

power of real food and the role that it plays. So that's why I was so touched by her story. And I was like, I have to bring her on the podcast because I mean, it's just, I think it's so interesting. So why don't we, let's just, let's go, let's get into it. So why don't you want to just start from the beginning? I really would just love to hear your story. Yes. And I think I'll go deep. Like, I think I'll just tell it really how it is. Cause it's been quite a journey for me to the point where I'll be honest if you had asked me to be on this podcast three years ago I probably would have shut down and been like I don't even know who you are like don't say that to me you know like I wouldn't have wanted to talk about it or share my experience but now I think through healing

mentally emotionally physically obviously it's brought me to this place where I do feel our story is such a powerful tool to bring others to a healthy lifestyle. So that's amazing. Sorry. We're dog friendly. I want to actually, I want to say one thing before we dive in. Neither of us are making any sort of claims, of course, always talk to your doctor first. And I just really wanted you to come on here and speak to your experience. But I want to remind everyone that this is just your experience, of course. And talk to your doctor about anything if you have any questions. But also, I would encourage you to talk to a doctor that really does recognize the power of real food, which would be like an integrative or a functional

medicine doctor. But anyways, okay, continue. Thank you. Yes. Love that. That was perfect interlude to my dog. This is really exciting. Organifi now has kid stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called Easy Greens and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other one is called Protect. It's a delicious wild berry punch like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be

able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume them safely without any glyphosate in it. So let's break down each one. The Easy Greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids' growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. It helps to fill in nutritional gaps, aids in growth and development, supports digestive health, has a rich micronutrient profile, and includes digestive enzymes. This would be a great way to sneak in greens for your little one without them actually knowing that it's healthy for them. And the second one, which is the wild berry punch similar to Kool-Aid, is called Protect, and it is to support your child's daily immune

health with food-derived nutrients that work to strengthen their body's first line of defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste and it's low sugar

and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants. Astragalus, elderberry and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you wanna try the products that I talked about today or any of the Organifi products, astragalus, elderberry, and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about today or any of the Organifi products,

go to Organifi.com slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. Imagine having a metabolic coach in your pocket that you could access at any point, any time in the day, whenever you want. That's what Lumen is. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, workout, sleep, and even stress management. I have so many podcast episodes about metabolic flexibility and why it is so incredibly important for your overall health and longevity. And now thanks to Lumen, you can actually see in real time your body's ability to efficiently

switch between using different fuel sources like carbs and fats. There's preferred times to use each and how well you can switch places between burning carbs versus burning fats will tell you a lot about what is going on in your metabolism and where you are in the metabolic flexibility spectrum. All you have to do is breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs, then lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals. So you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. Why is this so important?

Your metabolism is your body's engine. It's how your body turns the food you eat into the fuel that keeps you going because your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does. Optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits, including easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results, better sleep, and more. Now this is a really cool feature too. It can actually track your cycle as well as the onset of menopause and adjust your recommendations to keep your metabolism healthy through hormonal shifts. So if you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me and use real foodology to get $100 off your lumen. That is l-u-m-e-n dot m-e and use real foodology at checkout for $100 off. Thank you so much to lumen for sponsoring this episode. Um, sorry. Um, I agree with that. And I also want to just mention that I am such a firm believer in using both of those tools. And I think we'll get into that in a sec here, but it's right.

You're right in saying, you know, talk to your provider, but also make sure your provider advocates for you and knows that there's really no harm in eating well and exercising and doing these things. And so that might come with being on medications, but I still believe there's such a connection between that. So my, my story was about, I would say about three and a half years ago is when it really, really started. It was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. And at the time of diagnosis, I really, I saw it as a death sentence. Like, if I'm really taking you to my dark side, I was, you know, I would say horrible things to my husband, like, you should divorce me. We had just got married. I said, you know, you shouldn't be with somebody like this. This is going to be a lifetime of doctor's appointments and me being in a wheelchair

and like, this is going to be your life. And I don't think that's what you signed up for. And I wanted to throw away my high heels because I felt like I'm not going to be able to walk in these. Like my mind went to way beyond where I even was when I was diagnosed. But what I realized is I think that might be an extreme, but I think a lot of people who receive a diagnosis of any disease kind of go there mentally. And I see it in my patients. I'll say, oh yeah, you, you know, you have diabetes and blah, blah, blah. And maybe I say it a little bit nicer than that, but it's like everything from them drops. Like it's the earth shattering stuff. stop. And so it took me probably, I would say over a year to really wrap my head around

this diagnosis. And I think what made it really difficult was my inability to accept it. And I felt like I was powerless and I felt like, and, and really it's fair because with MS, we don't have a cure and we don't really understand the disease. And it often is a lifetime of doctor's visits. And so I think coming up to a year after diagnosis, I, I started to, I started to really look at how I could almost like take back my power because it felt like I had lost who I was. Like I considered quitting the nurse practitioner program. I told my school, I said, you know, I was diagnosed with MS and like, basically probably not going to be allowed to be a provider. Like that does, those thoughts don't even make sense when you say them out loud,

but they're so real in that moment. And I, I genuinely would think like, well, who would want me as a provider? Like if I have MS and like, what, that doesn't make sense. I mean, if anything, I probably understand the system a bit better because I actually can explain to you what it's like being in an MRI or what it feels like to be on a really harsh medication. But what happened was it was, I remember it was around December and I, you know, I was coming up on a year and I really think a lot of journeys start with that sort of like really dark, really, you know, kind of depressed. And then you sort of ebb and flow. And then you kind of get to this like point at the year where you either keep being depressed

or somehow you are lucky enough to like pull yourself out of it and see maybe there's hope. And I honestly, I don't really know where the like turning point was, but I just, I think it was our friends in Labrador. They are whole food plant based and they sent me this video and I started watching the video. And then my nerdy self was like, well, I don't know the science of nutrition. That's not really reasonable. Right. And I wanted science, like I wanted like hard facts. And so I started to pick away and I started to read about eggs. And then I started to read about dairy. And then I started to read about meat. And then it was like all these little pieces. And as I was learning these pieces, I was also in my first year of the nurse practitioner

program. I was also starting on medications for my MS because it makes sense. I'm, you know, as an RN, even I lean toward Western medicine. So then I was like, okay, what's the best medication for me? I did all the research on all the medications and I started with Copaxone, which was an, is an injectable medication. So every day I would inject myself with this med, which is when I look back, I think like, oh my goodness, like, I can't believe I did that. And even that people do that every day. Like, yeah. And so, and it was this whole process and tell me if I'm rambling, but I do think it's good for people to like hear sort of what this looks like. I'm like I said, I'm so enthralled with it, with your story that I'm just here

listening and I want everyone to hear it. So this is amazing. Okay. Um, so basically like Copaxone is, you know, it's, it's not a baby needle, but it's not huge. Um, and it gets injected into your fatty tissue and it would cause these like welts on my body. Like I, it would become like a firm, almost like underneath the skin, firm piece of almost like a callus under the skin. Right. But it's called a lipoma. So like cause the tissue to kind of, you could even get like necrosis, but I didn't anyways.

So it'd be super, super red and very, very painful and it would burn. And I had this like nighttime routine. I would do it at night and I would ice it. And like, it was such a process. So I did that for just over six months. And I went to my neurologist. I'm like, I can't live like this. This is like, I can't do this. And so, and of course I'm looking at the evidence too. I'm like reading about Capaxon. I'm like, is it really beneficial? I don't know. And then I'm also reading all this nutrition stuff and like how, you know, um, exercising can reduce your stress, but it can also build muscle memory. And so that's really important in people who have MS. So I was like, started this like exercise

routine and like, Oh, mindfulness is really, so I started all this. And then my neurologist was like, okay, well, why don't you try a crevice? Cause it's kind of like the new hot med and, um, it's really, you know, it's been shown to be beneficial for people. And you only have to get, uh, an IV infusion every six months. So I'm thinking like, so, um, I'm genuinely curious because I don't know all the ins and outs of MS so when you're obviously there's no sort of like cure for it um these sort of medications what are they doing are they just meant to kind of like slow down the process or like help you through the pain or kind of what's the yes so most of these, the goal is to reduce the progression of of came through was that, do I want to have the disease potentially progress, um, but live a really awesome life and feel really good? Or do I want to feel really crappy for 10 years. Maybe the disease still progresses or maybe it doesn't,

but I lived 10 years feeling really crappy. Yeah. And like, that's kind of how I weighed the risk when I finally made the decision not to be on medications. And really that was because when I was on a previous, like, so this medication is about a four-hour infusion you sit down you get an IV they give you other medications on top of this medication because your body goes into like you actually need to be mindful if you you're more susceptible to you know viruses and other infections because it's suppressing your immune system. Um, but when I got the infusion, it would be, it was two months for me to recover. So then in four months, it was another to, to get another infusion. I'm like, so I have four months where I feel okay. And this doesn't happen to everybody for me. I just, sometimes I think maybe it happened to me so that I could choose this other way. But things like dizziness, nausea, inability to walk,

because it felt like I was trudging through mud, like, which is also a symptom of MS, funny enough, I felt like, oh, I didn't feel like I had the disease this bad. And now I'm on this medication and now I really have the disease. Yeah. So after, so about a year of being on medications, as well as like learning all of this nutrition information and then bridging it with my, like, it was really funny. At one point I have a couple pictures where I've got all these like nutrition books and then I've got all my like

patho and pharmacology books for my nurse practitioner and I'm like sitting there and I'm I'm bouncing between them and what was really cool is that we had a lot of this information that I would use like because I'm like oh trust the science, because I know how that works. But then I would look at these research books, or these nutrition books, and I'd be like, oh, the research matches up. And so I would feel more confident in what I was doing. And then, so a year goes by, and I decide, and this was like a joint decision between my husband and I, and he's a GP, a general practitioner, a family doc. And we actually decided together, you know, based on how unwell I felt on the medications and what this sort of information we kept coming to was showing us and how I was feeling when I was eating this way and that he was feeling when he was eating this way and we were exercising and

we decided like, let's try no meds. It's not, it's not really showing a lot of benefit for me right now. So I went off medications, which is like going against the grain of what's ingrained in me, what's ingrained in my husband. It was like, it kind of felt like I was doing something bad. Like I was, you know, and at this point I didn't have a community. Like I genuinely thought I was the only person in the world who knew this information, which is like hilarious. But if it's not in your inner circle, how would you know? Yeah. I mean, this is a perfect example of why the internet is so amazing because I'm assuming, I don't know your full story, but that you probably found a community of people that

were doing the same thing. And then you can relate with them. You guys can share your stories, which is just incredible. I think what I actually was, I started to share online and then people started to come to me and we created a group, um, uh, like a support group, and we would meet. And that also built my confidence because 50% of the women in the group also weren't on medications. And so I was like, okay, so it's not wrong. And the beautiful thing is that I will say like, what's been really great for me is I've got a neurologist who is willing to continue to provide me the Western medicine side of things, which I would consider being like MRIs and still seeing the specialist yearly and, you know, keeping me aware if new medications come to, but she's also not pushing that on me. Like I get to

guide my care and say, Hey, you know, I'm feeling really great. Really don't need an MRI every year. If I feel more symptoms or if I feel, you know, if I continue to have more relapses, then okay, I want to come see you and let's revisit. It's always a fluid thing. You can try just the nutrition side, or you can try just the medications, or you can do both, or you can do either one and then continue to reassess. See, and I think this is such an important component of it. What you talked about, you touched on with your doctor. I try to convey this message as much as I can online, because I just think that this is so important. It is so important to remember that

it's a relationship with your doctor. You are the expert of your own body. And of course your doctor is the expert of the human body and of anatomy and of medication, and they can guide you the best that they can, but it really is a relationship and they, they need to be willing to listen to you just as much as you're, you need to be willing to listen to them because at the end of the day, no one else is going to be the expert of your body. Like you are, you're the only one that lives in it. You're the only one that can say like, Hey, these are my symptoms. This is how this is making me feel. And if you are listening

right now and you have a doctor that will not listen to you at all, then you need to find a new doctor, find one that will listen to you. And of course, like you want them to guide you. They are the expert. Um, you need to, you know, take their, their medic, their medical advice, but also again, like I said, you need to remember that, um, you play a role in it too. And I think that's so amazing that you have a doctor that listens to you and works is willing to work with you. Yes. And I, that is exactly what I say to my patients. I'm like such a firm believer that we can live a very abundant, vibrant, energized, like beautiful life with having disease. And I think that if you're willing to, you know, advocate for yourself and, you know, I don't mind if my patients want to

do research and come to me and say like, Hey, what do you think about this? I encourage that, but I also know, you know, how to sift through that. So that's, what's great is like, okay, I've spent the last 10 years learning how to take what Google said and turn it into facts. And so, yes, please share with me what Google said. And I'm going to tell you, Hey, yeah, that makes sense. Or actually, maybe don't do that. Or what sometimes I often find myself saying is, like, I'll go through like a risk sort of. Okay, is this going to harm you or someone in your family? If not, no. Okay, maybe try it.

Is it really going to harm you to have some apple cider vinegar every morning if you feel like that's going to cure you of whatever? Try it. No evidence for it, but try it. Is it really going to harm you to have some apple cider vinegar every morning if you feel like that's going to cure you of whatever? Try it. No evidence for it, but try it. Not going to harm you, right? And so it is important and you might be surprised what your provider says. And there needs to be that safety net, I think. Yeah. I couldn't agree more, honestly. Yeah. That's so, wow. I just, I think your story is so incredible. I'm so intrigued. So can we go into what is your kind of like day-to-day look like? And I'm assuming that maybe it's progressed since you first started, but well, I guess this is kind of a multi many questions, but I'm curious kind of like what, what you were doing when you started, if that's changed at all, if you're doing something different now, maybe just kind of the progression of, of, um, your journey off medication.

So let's see when I, and this is why I think I really believe that like, it's a, it's a lifetime journey of health because when I was diagnosed with MS, so I had my first symptom when I was 23, which was my, my, um, I had vertigo and then I've like, you know, lost feeling my arm and I've just, I've had optic neuritis. Thankfully that basically my eyesight is almost a hundred percent improved in my one eye, but like there were very distinct things that have happened. And in those times, for example, I was working in a merge in a very, very busy emerge, which was, um, I don't need to describe the details, but it's just like, it was just a very, I hate to say almost toxic, but it was just so overwhelming. Everyone was stressed.

It was just a very stressful environment. So 12 hours a day there wasn't sleeping properly because my goodness, how do you sleep before a night shift when you know that's coming at you or, or a day shift. So I'd like show up to work. I'm like, I've only slept two hours. Oh my goodness. Here, give me this, you know, trauma patient. Um, not that it was like that every shift but I would just I had a lot of anxiety and stress around that so work not awesome yeah then um we had I was getting married so like huge life change even though you're obviously excited and it's amazing, but stress. And then, um, I was, I was probably overworking like six out of the seven days a week, 12 hour shifts is probably

not ideal for the average human. Um, but I had moved to a new place. It was like a new job. And so all of these things lead to poor food choices. You're not exercising because how do you have the energy and the mindset to even, you know? Or the time, really. Or the time, yeah. You're in survival mode at that point. For sure. So not exercising.

My gratitude journal, like, I've got nothing to be grateful for. Like that's where my mindset was. Right. And so basically that's where I was at. And then I was diagnosed, which made it even darker. And then of course it's kind of like the law of attraction, right? Like get diagnosed with that. And then, Oh, my mom gets in a car accident. My grandma dies, a pediatric trauma comes in, they died. Like all of these things in a really, really compressed time happened. And so it was like, either you decide to make a choice to be healthier and, you know, live a purposeful life and make changes, or you basically stay this way and you get really unwell. Yeah. So I think when, when I look back,

I'm like, okay, I started there. Now I see the importance of really it's an hour a day. So you asked me kind of what my day looks like when I'm, and I, I like to preface this because I'm not perfect. Like I don't do this every day. I'm not always on my game, but I always come back to it. And there's always a why, and I don't stray far. Like, yes. And I'm so glad that you touched on that because this is such an important thing for everyone to remember. Um, no one is ever going to be perfect in their diet, lifestyle, whatever it is. But like you said, it's all about the consistency. You know, if you stray a little bit, that's fine. Everyone does, you know, neither you or I are sitting here saying that we eat a

perfect diet and that we exercise perfectly every day. It's just that for the most part, it sounds like you're this way too, that I'm, we're consistent, you know, you come back to it. Yeah. Always come back to it. Yeah. And I think for me, my most recent change, um, because I w I was in my final practicum, you know, it's really busy. You're five days a week, you're full on in the clinic, but plus you're writing a thesis and plus you're, you know, I'm running health intentionally. And so I really had to, I was waking up with dread and that feeling of, I'm not sure I can like get through everything in a day. And I think what changed for me was I started to own my morning. And so every morning I gave myself that hour to make sure that I ate

a really good breakfast, like oats and berries and like seeds. And, you know, I made a smoothie on top of that. And so it was like to, just to ensure that I had every, I'd set myself up for success and I would do my exercise. I only did 20 minutes. I didn't, it's not like I was like hit in a gym for two hours, like literally just 20 minutes. I'd lift some weights. I'd maybe have a little sweat and that's it. You don't need to do something dramatic, but I would notice if I didn't do it. And I would do my, I would do about 10 minutes of 10, 15 minutes of meditation, usually a guided meditation. And then I would do 20 minutes of something I enjoy, eat a good breakfast. And I was fine. And it just required me getting up earlier, but I made it through, you know, a really tough year. And

you realize that if you could just put that one hour ahead of everything that you do, you're setting yourself up for success. You're reducing stress. You are, you know, you're helping your body's metabolism and you're, you're waking up actually excited. Like I would get up at six and I'd be like, okay, like yay, the day as opposed to that dread. Right. Yeah. There's nothing that I don't think there's a better feeling in the world waking up excited

in the morning. Yes. Yes. Such a good feeling. Yeah. And you notice it when you're not. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it sets the tone for the whole day kind of, you know, totally. And the, the, I found like my mind, this is just an

addition, but like, I just found like I was clearer and I was more on it and like things just like naturally click better when I'm getting up and having a good routine. So what is your approach now as far as since you're not on meds? I believe, I think it's like a real food approach, right? Or I'll just let you point it. So what is kind of your approach now? So I am super focused on the food aspect of things, but in health intentionally, I am a believer in what I call my three pillars to health. And that's really the exercise components where your mindset is at and how you're being mindful and how you're working through your stories that you tell yourself and how you're overcoming barriers and obstacles. Because what I've learned is that your health journey

isn't just let's eat healthy. Like so much comes up, as you probably know, when you go to make these changes. And so for me, it's about getting your head in the game. And I'm such a like a mantra. And then and having other people connect with their why. So I share a lot about like my why, but I also ask people even in, even in the clinic, I'll be like, so what's your why?

Like, why do you want to change? And I'm always like, it's not superficial. It's not to look skinny in a bikini. It's something deeper than that. And so I think that's probably it every day coming back to the why. And every day I really focus on, I'm a whole food plant-based approach person. And I'm not against like, you know, how other people understand food at all. I'm really open to it.

I just, that's what's worked for me. And I find that it's, um, it's, it's where I connect the most with the evidence. I connect the most to that and to that community. And so I always give my clients, like some of my clients, they still eat meat and I'm like, okay, so let's incorporate this into your diet, but let's like reduce the amount. Cause we certainly don't need the amount that we do eat. Absolutely. Yes. I couldn't do more. Yes. Dr. Mark Hyman says, he says, treat it, treat meat as a condiment. Oh, it shouldn't be the main star of the show. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I call it medicinal meat. I sold that from Dr. Clapper. Love it. Like have your medicinal meat once or twice a week, but, um, so that's really what I

follow now is this, you know, and I, I'm also like, I'm not a personal trainer. So in my program, I like, this is also something you're going to love. Like I, my dream now that I'm done, my nurse practitioner is that I have my clinic that has a personal trainer and an RMT and like an actual facility that people can go to because muscle and joint stuff, everybody's had something like that. And we sort of just brush it off like, okay, but you know, it's a part of health. And if you can't exercise because your shoulders all kinked up here, then you need to see an RMT. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so, and I also think like use people's skills to their full capacity.

Like my skill is teaching about the knowledge of nutrition and Western medicine and how that all can look in your life and how we can help you to heal diseases through that. Or at least, you know, reduce some of your symptoms, improve your life. But a personal trainer's job, like that of your symptoms, improve your life, but a personal trainer's job, like, that's why I have a personal trainer. Right. And, and like, if you want, if you're, you know, if you're not really into the meditation thing, spend the $6 and get the calm app or go to yoga or, you know what I mean?

Like do, do those things. So my health intentionally has a personal trainer. If you wish, I reach out to her and she sort of, we work together collaboratively. And then some people want to bring in the mindfulness aspect. So I have a yoga instructor as well. And between the three of us, it's a holistic program. But also people can obviously just work with me or just work with the personal trainer, but I'm very much about having them all incorporated into your life. The, I mean, this is so incredible. You touched on so many important things too. I want, I want

to say your patients are so lucky to have you because everyone working in the Western model is, is doing what you're doing and recognizing the power of lifestyle changes and diet changes and how they can, I mean, they can make all the difference in the world. And like we keep saying throughout this whole podcast is that, um, there is no vilifying of Western medicine. Of course we need it, but it really, it comes back to the importance of a holistic approach and integrative approach where we bring all of these facets together and it brings in. And I love that you brought up the, the meditations and your journaling with gratitude and all that, because it really, I think oftentimes in health, that aspect really gets overlooked. I mean, even myself, I overlooked it for a very long time. I

was so focused on food and what was going on my body and moving and exercising that I really didn't pay much attention to, you know, meditating and connecting with myself again and diving into my gratitude and relieving my stress because it's all connected. Yes. 100%. Mind-body connection. And that's why, oh, go ahead. No, you go. Which I think is so, this is so mind-boggling and cool to me because I'm, I'm very, I want to see the science. I want to see the hard facts, which is funny because I also follow my intuition a lot, but at the end of the day, I want the science to kind of back up what I intuitively know to be true. And we have studies that show that, um, the way that we think our thoughts can literally change ourselves and our

body. There's scientific studies, there's brain scans, there's all the science to back it up. And then of course we see it anecdotally as well. I mean, in your life, I've seen it in my life. It's really, um, it's powerful. It's very powerful. And they do say that about meditation. Like it's not the length of time, but the consistency that you do it at. And it actually has been shown to reduce stress. And that's why like I say to people, even if you can do five minutes, like literally just sitting there, even if you're repeating your mantra for five minutes, like that's better than nothing at all. And I think like, I don't know if you've heard of Gabor Mate, but he wrote a book

called When the Body Says No. And it's about stress and the process of disease and like how much that causes diseases to form just because you're stressed and cellular changes. And I'm like, that makes so much sense. Like, this is why it's, you know, it's not just about the medications. And I think like, for me, I really, I really want people to know that medications are a tool. And there's other things that we can do that don't cause you side effects that some of these medications cause. There's diseases that can be healed or reversed because of changing your life, because the diseases are only there because of the way you're living. Exactly. And I don't want to put people on medications that are going to make them feel awful when I know if they just ate a bit better and it can be really small changes or went for a 30 minute walk or even a 15 minute walk. Their mind would clear, their blood pressure would go down. Like all of these things are so much more powerful. And there's even like, even in my pharmacology book, like my Bible of medications,

there is a comparative chart with lifestyle changes to blood pressure measurements. And there's no medication out there that can reduce them the same way that these lifestyle changes can. Wow. And that's super powerful. Really, really. And people need to know that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes. What you just said is so powerful and I'm just, I'm so happy that I asked you to come on this podcast because this is what I consider to be truly life-saving information that people need to hear. Yes. out. And there are so many other things at play here. And just, you have to, you kind of just have to go on your own journey and figure out what works best for you, which actually brings me to my next question. So if someone is listening to this and let's say that they're suffering from MS

or another disease that they're kind of looking for answers and where to start, where would you direct them to start into looking into this? Like how can they get more information on figuring out how to make these changes? Like what did you do? That is a good question. Probably don't do what I did. Looking back, I'm like, oh my goodness, did I ever sleep? Like what was I doing? I was just really passionate and wanted to learn it. So I was reading everything, but I would say, um, you know, for someone with, uh, MS specifically, there's a lot of great, um, people out there. Obviously you can reach out to me too. I've got Instagram and all of that, but there's a lot of the show notes to your Instagram and everything. Okay. Awesome. Um, but there's, um, the OMS program, I mean, Dr. Terry walls, and these are people like the OMS

program follows more of like a fish plant-based Dr. Terry walls follows more of a, um, meat plant-based approach. That's kind of the best way to explain it. And then my like mentors are, I say meat plant-based, but it sounds contradicting, but like mostly plants and then having a little bit of meat. Is that what you mean? Yeah. What I mean is eat real food and have some meat. That's what she says. She reminds me of Michael Pollan. He's so amazing. But he says, eat real food, mostly plants. Yes. Love that. And then there's, of course, like my kind of mentors are Dr. Clapper, um, Dr. Michael Greger, um, Dr. Furman. Those are the people that I really read all their stuff and got, like, I was watching all their Ted talks and all of that. And so,

um, those people, or I would say, um, how not to diet isn't, is a really good book. Cause it's very, if you're super sciencey, it's really, really good. I love to see different, um, articles that they've done in studies. So yes. Um, and then I would, you know, there's also a community online and oh my goodness, I think I'm forgetting the name, Eat to Live Daily. And it's a community of like a hundred thousand people. I just learned about it, but they're a really good group of people to reach out to too. And- Is that from Dr. Fuhrman? Because I believe, isn't he the one that wrote Eat to Live? Okay. I love him. He's amazing. It's actually Alicia Lee. She started the community, but it's based off of his information. Cool. Yeah. I mean, there's so many, like if you really want to know,

just message me on Instagram and I'll give you a list of a bunch of really good books and stuff. Cause I think there's ways to make it much more simpler than what I did at the very beginning. Because you can get really overwhelmed. Like, have you ever gone to a nutrition section in like chapters or like Indigo bookstore? It is so overwhelming. My heart just sinks for anybody who's looking for nutrition information. I'm like, don't go there. It's like, eat meat, don't eat meat, eat processed food, don't eat processed food. It's like every

kind of diet possible. And it's so overwhelming. So you need to narrow it down. And I think like, yes, the evidence is really good for, like you said, mostly plants when we're talking about chronic and autoimmune diseases, because those are very inflammatory reducing as well as they've actually shown to reduce your cholesterol levels and your insulin resistance. So look for things that say like, you know, plant-based or I don't know, what, what do you usually tell people? Mostly plants. Yeah, exactly. Actually, I, I direct a lot of people to Dr. Mark Hyman. He has a diet that the name is not my favorite, but he calls it the pegan diet. And essentially it's, but he still eats a little bit of meat.

I forgot what it stands for. It's like a paleo vegan diet, I believe. And it is, it's pretty much what you were saying where it's mostly plants. It's very, very plant heavy. And then you have a little bit of meat, but he's also very, he's a huge proponent for organic grass fed meats, which I would say is really important, especially if you are listening and you're looking to manage a disease because of the way that we factory farm animals in this country with the antibiotics and the growth hormones, those are all incredibly inflammatory and you really want to focus on bringing inflammation down. And so the last thing you want to do is add on to that. So if you are going to eat meat, I personally have no problem with it. As long as what we said earlier as well, less meat, you don't need as much as, as we normally eat in this country,

Canada as well. It's the same. Yeah. We just eat way too much meat and a lot of it is factory farmed. And so we're really getting back to eating more plants, real food, less food in boxes if possible. And when you're going to eat meat, grass fed, pasture raised, organic, and then wild caught fish. It's really the best way to reduce the inflammation. Keep it simple. Yes.

That's what I say to people. It's not complicated. If it starts to get complicated. Yes. That's what I say to people. It's not complicated. If it starts to get complicated, it's not right. Yes. I love that. Yes, exactly. You should be able to eat almost as much as you want. Yep. Because if you're eating nutritionally dense food, your body's going to tell you to stop at some point and you're not having empty calories. So there's nothing for your body to store it as fat. Exactly. Well, and because I've found who has ever binged on like a salad, you know, like where you're like, okay, I'm full and I don't

want anymore. And that's your body literally telling you I've gotten the nutrients I need. I feel full. I feel satiated. Whereas, I mean, how many times have all of us listening probably binged an entire bag of chips or an entire bag of cookies or whatever it is. And you literally feel like you can't stop because there are certain, I mean, we have food scientists that put just the perfect amount of ratio of salt versus fat versus sugar to cause that, like, I mean, it's an addiction really to cause that like flavor explosion that makes you feel like you can't stop eating it. Yes. And that's a beautiful point. And I know we're not

going to get too into it, but like, I think we need to give ourselves some grace to know that like a lot of these foods we are eating, it is the same. And I say this because I think it's just the easiest way to describe it for people. But if you have a addiction to a drug, like let's just go extreme here and say heroin, it's the same mental process as being addicted to these foods. And so when you're saying, oh, it's really hard for me because I'm craving X, Y, Z, or, you know, you actually start to change your diet and you start to have like withdrawal symptoms. That's because it's a chemical in your brain. Yes. It's the equivalent of being addicted to a heroin, right?

Yes. So sugar in particular is really the worst out of all of them. I mean, it's more addictive than cocaine. They did a study with rats. This is so crazy. Might've been mice, but you know, whatever. So they had a thing of cocaine water and a thing of sugar water in their cage. Every single one of them kept going back to the sugar. They didn't even care about the cocaine at all. They just wanted the sugar and we have brain scans to show it. Your brain on sugar. I sound like a dare dad right now. Like this is your brain on drugs. Do they still have dareARE? I think that might be our generation. I know. I thought I was like, people listening to this may not even know what

DARE is. I would assume they still have it, but I'm not sure. Um, but yeah, I mean, we literally have brain scans of this is your brain on sugar and this is your brain on drugs and they look very similar. Wow. That does not surprise me. I know. I know. It's just crazy. And I mean, I've been there when I was in college, I was so addicted to sugar. I could not go a day without having a vitamin water, which, um, if you don't know this, a vitamin water has the same amount of sugar as a Coke, a can of Coke, Coca-Cola. And I would have a vitamin water every day. And I had to have some sort of candy, whether it was like sour gummies or Reese's or whatever it was. And at the time I didn't even realize, cause I was just so in this addiction that was just like, it's like, Oh, I'm craving

it. And I crave it every day. But I look back on it now I was addicted, addicted. And if there was a day that I didn't have it, I would literally have a crash. I would have like withdrawal symptoms. And it wasn't until I started making these little changes and look, it's not going to happen overnight. You know, I had to start making these tiny little changes. It was like, you know, first to stop drinking the vitamin waters. And then I slowly stopped weaning myself off the candy. And it's, you're going to like fall off the wagon.

But like we said earlier, it's all about the consistency and it's all about giving yourself grace to, you know, and recognizing that it, it is really hard. It's hard to break yourself, um, from these processed foods, from the sugar. But when you get on the other side, the reward is so worth it. And I believe, I mean, you're, you're living proof of it. I can't imagine going back. And even now, like, I know that my relapses, I think, I think you actually had asked me this in, when I was interviewing you, but, um, I think it was, I think the question was, you know, how often am I having a relapse? And I probably have about

one a year now in the last three, two, three years, which is amazing. I mean, people sometimes don't come out of a relapse for even three months, um, or they have multiple a month. Um, but the point is, is that I'll continue that. And then I have a question. Sorry. Continue. Okay. The point is that now I, I can almost know when a relapse is coming. And usually it's because I haven't been managing my stress, which usually means I haven't been exercising or I haven't been doing my morning routine, meditating, or it's that I have, yeah, I'll stay whole food plant based, but maybe I'm not eating enough because I'm being too busy and I'm not taking time to make proper meals and meal prep, or I'm not getting enough greens and berries because I'm just grabbing the quickest

thing that maybe I froze in the fridge. Um, so for me now it's even funny. Even my hubby's like, okay, we got to get you the medicinal like cocktail. And we'll be like, um, what he'll do is we'll make, um, like a really good, um good beet juice, ginger, lime, mint, like juice. And I'll like make sure I have those a couple of times in the next few days. And then I'm like, we'll like go crazy on our food. Like all of a sudden I'm eating like these massive amounts of greens and massive amounts of berries.

And then we start getting like, we'll both be like, okay, we're exercising today. Like maybe it just looks like paddle boarding. Cause maybe I don't have the energy to do something more full on, but we'll just make sure we get outside and we do something. So it becomes, instead of me being like first thought, get on a steroid because I'm having a relapse. It's get back onto track with my holistic life because the steroid is probably going to make me feel more crappy. Yes, steroids can be very helpful in relapses and they can reduce the amount of damage that can happen. But also you can do that through getting back to your routine that worked for you in the beginning. So, yeah. That's so cool. Also your husband sounds amazing. Yeah. And so, and I want to say to you for people listening at the end of the day,

this really always comes back to you and what you're feeling in your own body. Because if I've learned anything on this health journey, I can take all the advice from all the experts in the world and try to apply it to my body. But ultimately at the end of the day, it's all about what works best for you. So if you're listening to this today and you're doing everything that you can in your power, and you're still having these relapses all the time, and you feel like you're following everything that you can in your power, and you're still having these relapses all the time, and you feel like you're following this like 100%, and it's just not working for you, that's okay too. You need to know when to recognize what's working for you and what's not, and when to take steps in other directions. And I'm sitting here saying that I really believe in

the power of food and lifestyle changes. And I think that your story is so incredible because you are living proof of the power of food and the power of these lifestyle changes and the impact that they can have on your body and your life. But also, I think it is really important to remember at the end of the day, you still need to listen to yourself and you need to really take note of what's working for you and only you, not just because it's working for someone else.

And that is so well said. It's so well said. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, I love what you're doing. It's super, super powerful. This is awesome. Thank you. That's so kind of you to say, well, I feel like, I mean, we covered everything that I wanted to talk about, but is there anything else that you wanted to cover that we didn't? Um, I guess I just want people to know, just if I can go back to one thing that I said earlier is that a diagnosis or, you know, disease itself, it's just in our world. It's a part of our world. And chances are someone that you know, or if not yourself, is going to get a diagnosis of some sort in their lifetime. And it could be anything. It could be depression. It could be anxiety. It could be high blood pressure, or it could be multiple sclerosis. And I just want you to know that when you hear a diagnosis,

take it for what it is and use it as a tool to either kickstart your health journey or to reassess where you want to be or what you want to do and what you can do, you personally can do to live a better life with that disease. Because often, yes, we can reverse some diseases, but not everything. And so if, you know, if we can just use it as like a fire under our butt instead of a death sentence, we'll all be better off. because I really feel when we're living our healthiest, we are able to serve and support others and ultimately like do our greater good for the world. And if we feel like crap every day, we're not going to be able to do that. And we can do that with having disease. We can still be vibrant with having disease. Wow. That was amazing.

I'm just so inspired by you and your story. Thank you so much for coming on and telling that. Cause I'm, I'm very, very excited for people to hear this story. I just think it's so, it's so important and your insight and, um, just the way your approach in that you really took what you said to be like, you consider it to be a death sentence and you completely changed your life. And I just think that is, um, it's really inspiring. It's really incredible. Yeah. Thank you for allowing me to share. Yeah. And I love how you said, just use it to, you know, it was like a fire under your butt. I mean, it's so true. We really only have two choices in this life, either to become victims of what life throws at us or to, like you said, use it as a fire under your butt and,

and start making life changes. We can all make changes. I can't, I'm sitting here right now being like, I can list off all the things that I could change and I'm working on it. You know, it's a work in progress. No one always is. Yeah. But, um, you got to start somewhere, you know? Absolutely. Oh, well tell everyone where they can find you. Okay. You can find me at healthintentional.com or my Instagram at health. intentionally. Or you can honestly just personally email me. I can give you my email, which is on my Instagram, too. So and trying to think. I mean, I guess you can find me on Facebook, too. Cool. Oh, thank you so much for coming on. This was so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, that's it for today. Thanks so much for coming on. This was so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, that's it for today. Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of the real foodology

podcast. The show is produced and mixed by Drake Peterson and Christopher McCone of Peterson McCone productions. The theme music is by the singer Georgie. Please do not forget to subscribe, rate and comment on either Apple podcast, Spotify, or any major podcast platform. It really helps me to continue on with this show. And if you want to find me on my IG, my handle is RealFoodology. Thanks guys. See you next week. Thank you.