Realfoodology - 30: Reversing Climate Change Instead of Just Stopping It with Ryland Engelhart

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

Todays episode is all about regenerative farming, how it can REVERSE climate change and better our health. I speak with Ryland Engelhart who is the Co-Founder and Executive Director of Kiss the Ground, and is the producer of Kiss The Ground -- the film on Netflix. He has spent the past 15 years as an entrepreneur and love-activist, working in hospitality and building a "triple bottom line" business of organic plant-based restaurants called Cafe Gratitude and Gracias Madre in Southern CA. Show Links: https://kisstheground.com/ 'https://www.instagram.com/p/CFByrtnhL5r/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkhttps://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-03-05/biden-climate-farms-carbon-bank-risks https://www.ewg.org/research/national-pfas-testing/ https://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/blog/perfluorochemicals/what-are-pfas-chemicals-does-the-berkey-remove-pfoa-and-pfos-and-other-faqs https://www.consumerreports.org/bottled-water/whats-really-in-your-bottled-water

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. There's a main billboard, which is, yes, eat more plants. But there's definitely a secondary billboard that if you want to get into the nuts and bolts of farming and agriculture and how to regenerate, we are going to need animals. And those animals are going to be a system where there is life and death, because that's always been the way that animals have interacted on land, is that there's, that's how nature works. It's architecture. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Real Foodology

Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Swan. I'm currently recording this in my apartment in sunny Los Angeles, and I am just thrilled about today's episode. I found a documentary on Netflix a couple months ago called Kiss the Ground, and it made such an impact on me. It was so mind-blowing that I think I probably texted everyone close to me in my life immediately saying that they needed to watch this. So if you're listening right now, you've got to watch this documentary. If you are a living, breathing human that eats on planet Earth, I'm going to say you have to see this. You have to see this documentary. The information that they talk about applies to all of us. And I think the biggest takeaway from

this documentary is that we need to stop focusing just on reducing emissions and climate change. And we need to start focusing on actually reversing the damage that has already been done. And I'm going to, that's all I'm going to say, because I really want you guys to listen to this episode, but we talk about how we can actually reverse all the carbon that we have in our atmosphere and start reversing the impact that we've had on planet earth. And so, you know, no shock, all of this is connected with the health of our soil, the health of our planet and the health of our bodies. It's all connected guys. So really, really excited for you to hear this episode. I interview Ryland Englehart, who is the co-founder and executive director of Kiss the Ground, and he's the producer of Kiss the Ground, documentary on Netflix. You absolutely have to see it. He has spent the last

15 years as an entrepreneur and love activist working in hospitality and building a triple bottom line business of organic plant-based restaurants called Cafe Gratitude and Gracias Madre in Southern California. So if you live in SoCal, I highly recommend checking out those restaurants as well. Did you know that most cookware and appliances are made with forever chemicals? Yes, that means your nonstick pans, your air fryers, your waffle makers, your blender could possibly have PFAS. And yes, even our beloved crockpots and pressure cookers.

I have actually been talking about this for so long. Back in 2006, my mom came to my dorm room and made me get rid of all my nonstick pans because she was concerned about me being exposed to something called Teflon. Teflon is a coating that is used on nonstick pans and a lot of these appliances that I just named. So I've avoided Teflon, nonstick, PFA coated appliances, pots and pans, you name it, for a very long time. And the only option for a very long time was just stainless steel pots and pans. So I was really excited when a company like our

place came out because they started creating really beautiful cookware and appliances that are like pieces of art. Every appliance that I have from our place, I legit want to store it on the counter. And I'm the type of person that does not want anything on my counter because I like it to look really just clean and minimal. But I'm so obsessed with all the ArtPlace products that I have so many of them displayed on my counter because they are legit pieces of art. ArtPlace is a mission-driven and female-founded brand that makes beautiful kitchen products that are healthy and sustainable. All their products are made without PFAS, which are the forever chemicals, and also made without PTFE, which is Teflon. If a company is not outwardly stating that they don't use these chemicals, then if they are using nonstick coating on their appliances, they are absolutely

using forever chemicals. And there's been increasing global scrutiny for their impact on the environment and our health. And recognizing this impact, the EU plans to prohibit PFAS by 2025. Our place has always been PFAS free and they offer durable toxin-free ceramic coatings, ensuring a healthy, safe cooking experience. And let me tell you, you guys, they are changing the game with non-toxic appliances. They have a blender. They have an air fryer. They have a crock pot. Not to mention their amazing always pan.

They have a perfect pot, which is just the perfect size for soups. And they also just came out with a cast iron that I'm loving as well. And I more recently replaced all of the bowls and plates in my kitchen because I really needed an upgrade. My other ones were so old. So I got some from our place and they are so beautiful. The ceramics are beautiful. The colors are amazing. Like I said, everything is like a piece of art. If you want to try any of the products from our place, go to from our place.com and enter my code real foodology, check out to receive 10% off site-wide that's from our place.com code real foodology. Our place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. This is really exciting. Organifi

now has kids stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called Easy Greens, and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other one is called Protect. It's a delicious wild berry punch like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume them safely without any glyphosate in it. So let's break down

each one. The Easy Greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids' growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. It helps to fill in nutritional gaps, aids in growth and development, supports digestive health, has a rich micronutrient profile, and includes digestive enzymes. This would be a great way to sneak in greens for your little one without them actually knowing that it's healthy for them. And the second one, which is the wild berry punch similar to Kool-Aid, is called Protect, and it is to support your child's daily immune health with food-derived nutrients that work to strengthen their body's

first line of defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic, and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste, and it's low sugar, and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants, astragalus, elderberry, and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about

today or any of the Organifi products, go to Organifi.com slash RealFoodology and use code RealFoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash real foodology. Today's question comes from Marina and she wants to know about sparkling in her words, mother effing water learning Topo Chica was bad for you. Broke my heart. I need all the info on which sparkling water or mineral waters are safe, please. And thank you. Now that I've realized how big of an issue this is, I'm going to find someone to bring on the podcast so that we can talk more into depth about this. But I do want to give you guys some background because it's really important to know this. So for those of you that don't know what she's referring to, Consumer Reports last September 2020 came out with a new report all about bottled waters, including 35 non-carbonated and 12 carbonated ones. And they were testing for arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury, plus 30 PFAS chemicals. These chemicals in particular are very concerning because they linger in the environment almost indefinitely. And just to help you understand a little bit what these are,

so PFAS stands for a group of over 5,000 toxic fluorinated chemicals that have been used by manufacturing, used in manufacturing by big corporations and by governments for decades. For example, Teflon was using it, DuPont was using it in their non-stick Teflon and 3M was using it in their Scotchgard and firefighting foam. And the reason why these chemicals are so concerning is they escape from their factories and then poison our drinking water. And they don't just disappear. They stick around in our environment and in our bodies when we consume them. This is why they're called forever chemicals. So when this consumer report came out, we realized

that a lot of our bottled drinking water has really high levels of these PFAs. And to give you a little look into some of the health issues that these can pose, suppressed immune system, testicular cancer, liver tumors, thyroid hormone disruption, delayed mammary gland development, decreased vaccine antibody response, increased cholesterol levels, and atopic dermatitis. Now, what's really concerning that Consumer Reports shed light on is that a lot of our favorite bottled waters, including some of our favorite carbonated drinks, have really high levels of PFASs in the water. To give you perspective, Topo Chico is at 9.76 PPT. Now the EWG says there's no safe level of PFASs in your drinking water, but they say that one parts per trillion is the most you

should have. But according to our EPA, they say 70 parts per trillion. That alone is really concerning, especially when you look at the list. So to name off a couple of other ones that they found, it was polar natural seltzer, bubbly blackberry sparkling water, pollen, zesty lime sparkling water, Canada, dry lemon, LaCroix natural and Perrier natural sparkling mineral water. So now that we know all of this, what can you do and what is safe to drink? Now, first and foremost, they say either get a reverse osmosis or an activated carbon filtration system like a Berkey. Actually, this is what I use in my home. I love my Berkey. I've had it for like four years now. And the black Berkey filter cartridges are capable of removing more than 99.9% of PFOs,

PFOAs, and other harmful PFAs. And then if you're looking for sparkling water, you can actually make your own bubble water with a SodaStream and your Berkey water, which is what I do. Now, if you're specifically looking for bottled water, there were a couple that came out on the lower end, and those were San Pellegrino, Spindrift, Raspberry Lime. And then according to Mountain Valley Spring Water, this was not a part of the consumer reports, but according to their website, they have a quality report on their website and it tested for arsenic, PFOA, PFOS, and other PFAS substances, and none were detected in their water. I do love Mountain Valley Spring Water,

and this is one that I buy whenever I can find it when I'm out. But you know, it's better anyways to have your own water at home and use a refillable bottle like a hydro flask or any sort of aluminum steel bottle. And just, it's going to save you a lot of money. If you guys are interested in learning more about this, I put a bunch of links in the show notes, all about the, I put the consumer report in there, also links to the Berkey as well as EWG so that you can read more about your water in your area. You can actually plug in your zip code and see what your water looks like in your area. So yeah, those are the best ones if you're looking to buy, but I think we're all on the same page and wanting to reduce our consumption.

And especially with plastic bottles, I hope no one is really buying those anymore. So I would highly recommend getting a Berkey, filtrating your water at home and just get a reusable bottle and fill up every day. I have a 40 ounce hydro flask and I carry that around with me all day so that I don't have to buy bottles when I'm out. And then I know that I'm getting really clean, filtrated water. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of us are concerned about aging. There is a class of ingredients called senolytics that were discovered less than 10 years ago, and they are being called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime. Now, when I'm talking about aging here, I'm not just talking

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through hormonal shifts. So if you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me and use real foodology to get $100 off your lumen. That is L U M E N dot M E and use real foodology at checkout for a hundred dollars off. Thank you so much to lumen for sponsoring this episode. Well, Rylan, let's just get right into it. Thank you so much for coming on today. You're so welcome. Thanks for the invitation. Glad to, as you said, I love sharing love and information that can hopefully awaken and illuminate others to be inspired and, you know, guide and shift their life in a more healthy and wholesome and yeah, a helpful way. So yes, as they say, it takes a village and it's going to take all of us, you know, to really implement the changes that we need to see.

So I brought you on today because you guys, your film, your documentary really caught my attention. And the biggest takeaway that I got from this film is that we need to stop focusing on reducing emissions and climate change and really start focusing on actually reversing it through something called regenerative farming. I want to go into that. But first and foremost, why don't you tell everyone a little bit about your documentary, Kiss the Ground, and what you do? Right on. Well, I, yeah, kind of my background is in food and hospitality. Part of a family business that opened a restaurant 15 years ago called Cafe Gratitude and then Gracias Madre. And so that has been kind of the background of my professional life has been, yeah, selling

healthy, organic plant-based food and really creating a business environment that's carrying a message of gratitude and love and connection and health and, you know, being the change we wish to see in the world. And so that's kind of my last 15 years. And then that sort of transitioned about eight years ago, where I had an awakening moment in, well, I was in New Zealand at Health and Wellness Conference. And I basically was part of a panel, or not a part of a panel, I was an audience of a panel called Can Human Beings Sustain Themselves on Planet Earth? And basically, five out of the six experts said no, that it's quite

dire that we're heading into the sixth mass extinction. And the last person who spoke was a guy by the name of Graham Sate. And basically, he said, what they're saying is true, but there's a blind spot. And that blind spot is really soil beneath our feet. And that if we could understand the way that photosynthesis works and the way that plants work with actually came into being because photosynthesis was able to pull enough greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere, specifically carbon dioxide, and create an inhabitable, livable planet that we have today. And if we could see our interaction with nature and our interaction with agriculture through this lens of understanding that we could harness nature's technology and power to pull the excess carbon out of the atmosphere and put it into the ground, creating a solution and creating a carbon-rich soil.

We could actually take a problem of too much carbon in the atmosphere and make it a solution of carbon-rich soils. And I just, it was the most compelling, inspiring possibility that I'd ever come across. Like, as you said, up until that moment, kind of the best North Star was like, sustainability, let's do less harm. And I just never really saw how that was actually going to get us out of the trap that we were in. It was just like, all right, we're heading off of a cliff with all of our, you know, destruction that we're doing to our natural environments. And how do we regenerate? How do we turn the ship around? And until I had really understood soil biology and the way that the carbon cycle works and the way that the water cycle works, which was illuminated in this moment in Australia, I mean, in New Zealand, it just really rattled my cage and changed my life to be about. I've never heard of a more compelling, hopeful idea. And so in turn,

that, you know, had me come back to LA and started literally gathering people in my living room on a weekly basis to see how we could get this message of regeneration out to the world. And the kind of miracle was that I moved into a small little bungalow house in Venice, and some environmental filmmakers were moving out. And I asked them, do you guys know about soil? Soil is the most exciting thing that we can actually reverse climate change if we rebuild our soil and through our agricultural system, we can do this. And they were like, yeah, not really interested. And they ended up calling me back in six months and saying, someone else approached us about this whole soil story idea.

And we know that you're starting a nonprofit called Kiss the Ground. And we'd like to partner with you and make a film and call it Kiss the Ground. And so that was seven years in the making. is a love story between humanity and Mother Earth, where human beings reawakened and remembered that we actually can work with nature and that we can actually heal in concert with nature in the way that we farm and the way that we produce food. know, the kind of big aha is that we can do it in a way where, you know, droughts and floods and fires and, um, tornadoes and hurricanes and, uh, all these things. And part of that is that we have too much, um, greenhouse gases in the upper atmosphere, um, creating this blanket and this heating effect. And so we all know that

we need to cut emissions and we do need to cut emissions, you know, drastically, and we need to move to alternative and renewable energies. But the kind of blind spot is we already have too much up there. So what is the answer to getting that? And really the answer that I see and, you know, that I can see when I look around the world and all the things that are being proposed, using agriculture and forestry sectors and grazing of animals and grasslands are the biggest opportunity and for the most economically viable solution to reverse and balance climate change. And so Kiss the Ground is a nonprofit that is dedicated to education advocacy for regenerative agriculture. And we work kind of in, you know, the awareness

and, you know, transforming lifestyle behavior and, you know, consumer behavior, agricultural practice on farms, and also looking at transforming policy that helps this transformation happen quicker because the architecture of our government is supporting it to happen versus fighting it to happen. Oh man, I actually, we're going to get into that because I have a couple of questions. And there was actually an article that came out this morning in LA Times that a friend sent me that I want to talk about. But let's back up a little bit before we get into the policy side of it. This to me, until I really understood this, like once I finally started to understand

the health of the soil is when I really started to understand the importance of this. I want our listeners listening right now to understand why healthy soil is so important because we forget that there's an entire ecosystem. There's a microbiome in our soil. And there was something that you guys talked about in the film that I thought was so, I mean, it was like mind blowing to me that in one handful of soil, there are more organisms that are living than there are humans that have lived on the planet. That is mind blowing. That's right. It's actually in one, it's one, in one tablespoon of healthy soil, there's more organisms than there are human beings living on the planet. Yeah. There's, you know, it's, it's yeah. It's also said in the film that, you know, we know more about the stars above than, you know, the soil beneath our feet.

Which is crazy. There is a whole universe. Yeah, sorry, because this is what feeds us and literally gives us life. And, you know, I think about how I was conditioned growing up to think like bugs and soil is ew, it's gross and it's dirty. So when I started to learn about this whole ecosystem and the soil and the role that it plays in growing our food and the health of our own bodies and our microbiome, I was honestly upset more than anything because we're taught to think that it's like gross and dirty and we want to avoid it. But this is the foundation of life. It really is the through line of our biological health. It's the basis of our biological health comes from soil into the

creation of food into our biological health. And yeah, so it is such, and as we become, you know, more awake to the importance of our, as you said, our gut microbiome, you know, a lot of that biological diversity is coming and is being impregnated and being repopulated through the foods that we're eating and through the soils that those foods are coming from. Well, and so let's talk about that in the lens of regenerative farming, because so plants obviously use sunlight for energy. They pull carbon out of the atmosphere, I believe, and then turn it into carbon fuel. And then that's what gives nutrients to the plants and to the soil.

That's right. You know, I think that's correct. I think one of the ways that people can kind of have an aha moment about it is that most people know that trees and plants are made out of carbon, like the structure of a tree or a plant is made from carbon. And that carbon is actually not coming from the soil. It's actually coming from thin air. So trees and plants are literally built from carbon from thin air. But what most people don't understand is that when the sunlight gives that plant energy, they have little mouths on the bottom of the leaves of the grasses

called stomatas, and they're sipping carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. And they're turning that carbon, they're combining it with water, carbon and hydrogen, carbohydrates. So they make carbohydrates out of that carbon out of the atmosphere. They build their bodies from those carbohydrates. And then they send, you know, 30 to 70% of those carbohydrates into their roots, and they feed microorganisms. And in exchange for those microorganisms getting that sugar, those microorganisms digest and give minerals to the plants so that those plants can actually totally uptake and digest and assimilate those minerals that are actually, you know, in the soil that without that biology would be geology and totally locked up and unable to be able to be accessible from

that, from that plant. Wow. So it really is this beautiful symbiotic relationship, exactly the same that if we didn't have a gut microbiome, our mouth and our teeth could masticate food. But the ability for our body to actually assimilate that nutrition without the biology in our gut wouldn't actually be able to happen. So it's the same exact with the biology in the soils. And if we think about most of our soils are being sprayed with pesticides, herbicides, fungicides that are killing these, you know, these pests, bugs. But for every, you know, one thing that they're killing, that they're intending, they're killing, you know, 25 or 100 things that are beneficial. And so you're ultimately just putting chronic stress on these soil ecosystems and they start to degrade and die. And that's what we articulate in the film is that we're in a major desertification of our planet through our poor agricultural practices that are leading

to, I think it's the size of England every year becomes, goes from used agricultural land to completely desertification. So I think in one third of all of our land has been desertified globally over the last, you know, 70 years. And so, you know, we're, we're, you know, what we did to the U S and the dust bowl. Um, and you know, the, these mass areas, like if you think about, and this is not new, this is, this has happened since almost the beginning of time in many civilizations. So like the fertile Crescent, um, was, you know, the, in the middle East, and that was fertile. It wasn't just called the Fertile Crescent. It was a fertile piece of land. You know, the Sahara Desert was the breadbasket of

the Roman Empire. But again, poor management of agriculture and, you know, led to fertile land turning into deserts. And, you know, that is where we're at, at a global scale today. And we have an opportunity to, through, you know, ancient wisdom of understanding our interconnection with nature, as well as with holistic thinking and, you know, modern technology and science, we actually can really, there is a hopeful story of how we can actually regenerate our agricultural lands, our grasslands, and that we can bring life back to this precious planet so that life can be thriving seven generations forward. So once that desertification starts happening, is regenerative farming able to reverse that, the desertification? Or are we just now trying to keep it from

continuing further? Yeah. So that brings me to the distinction of sustainability versus regeneration. So sustainability and the definition of sustainability, you're able to sustain without fully destroy something, use without fully destroying. But the reality is we've destroyed so much of our living ecosystems that sustainability is just not the sufficient North Star or the sufficient guidance, you know, directive for what we need. And the beautiful thing is that nature's inherent design is regenerative. Nature, the way nature works is regeneration. I mean, we've just been working against, that's right. Someone said recently that our bodies are self-healing, self-correcting, and self-healing, self-correcting, and self-adjusting. And so is, you know, are the,

the, the natural ecosystems. Yeah. They are, that is what they're designed to do. Um, but how can we support that process versus, um, getting in the way of that process or evading that process? And, you know, one of the, one of the ways that we, you know, since the beginning of agriculture in most cultures, tilling or plowing has been, you know, one of the essential things, breaking of natural and biodynamic and organic or regenerative agriculture was a guy by the name of Wendell Berry. And he said, he said, the plow will kill more men than the sword. And what he meant by that is that when we till up the soil continuously, it begins to erode. And if we destroy our soils, there is no civilization. There is no, and I think there's been 25 or 26 different civilizations that have grown as they grew, they destroyed their soils and with an inability to sustain life and it ultimately

destroyed that civilization. Well, yeah. I mean, without healthy soil, you have no soil to plant in. So then you can't feed yourselves. That's right. So this is part of the conversation I wanted to have with you is how, so, you know, we keep talking about this desertification and the damaging of the soil. What are we doing that's killing the soil? You know, the pesticides, synthetic pesticides, glyphosate. I want to have a conversation about that. You said something interesting earlier where you said these pesticides are killing the healthy ecosystem and the microbiome of the soil. It's also doing that to our bodies as well. That's right. So just like the health of soil has a

direct tie to the health of the food and the health of our body. There's also would be a direct tie if we're spraying glyphosate on wheat and oats before we make Cheerios. And we actually are doing that right before we're harvesting. It's actually, at one time, it was just being used as a herbicide that was killing weeds, but now they're actually using glyphosate as a way to spray onto grain crops to dry them out, to kill them before they harvest so that they dry out really quickly. And so it's actually the last chemical that is touching many of our cereal grain crops before it gets turned into our food. And so, you know, there's, yeah,

there's, you know, a lot of evidence and showing that Cheerios, you know, have a high amount of glyphosate. Yeah, high amount of glyphosate. Yeah. High, high amount of glyphosate. That's right. Yeah. There was a, there was a round of tests that were done a couple of years ago. They were testing really popular food items for their levels of glyphosate and Cheerios was one of the highest one that they found. And it made me so sick because I thought of all of the mothers that are feeding their children Cheerios. And now we know, according to the World Health Organization, that glyphosate, it causes cancer. They said probably causes cancer, but I think at this point, we pretty

much know the data is there. You know, it's an interesting story. I don't know if you've followed Zach Bush, but he speaks a lot about glyphosate and how glyphosate got into our food system as a safely regulated substance that would be used in our food system. And kind of the sort of short-sighted, uninvestigated justification was that what it does is it shuts down the Shigame pathway, um, in plants. Um, and because human beings don't have that Shigame pathway in, in, as a human being, but a lot of the microbiology in our system that we depend on have the Shigame, Shigame pathway. So it not only does it shut down, um, the ability for, uh, plants to uptake nutrients into their food. It also shuts down, you know, the biology, the microbiome that's in our gut that we depend on. So again, there's that

direct connection of, you know, healthy soil, healthy agriculture leads to a healthy body. And, you know, right now our conventional systems using glyphosate are leading to, you know, just unbelievable, you know, health crises. Well, and it's interesting because, you know, we're seeing this connection now with our soils having less and our crops are having less and less nutrients, vitamins and minerals as a result of this as well. There was another thing that I just wanted to briefly touch on because I thought this was so powerful in your documentary. How we got pesticides here in the U.S. I mean, it's almost sickening. I don't even want to like say it out loud, but the German scientist Haber, that he created these pesticides basically as like chemical warfare. And then the U.S. come or I'm sorry, and he used them as poisons and gas chambers during the Holocaust. And then when the war ended, these U.S. chemical companies rebranded them and brought them to the U.S. as

chemicals used for pesticides now for American farmers. I don't know if a lot of people know that. And I think people need to hear that. Yeah, it's really insane. It really is insane. Yeah, that we used chemical warfare in the World War and, you know, with with yeah, within Nazi Germany. And and yeah, those chemicals got rebranded and brought back to, you, you know, fighting the, the, the bugs on the farm. And ultimately, you know, that has led to a food system that is, you know, leaving us really sick. And so, uh, I don't like to, you know, go into that so much. I, I more prefer to stay in like, Hey, there's, uh, there is another way forward, that regeneration is possible.

And, you know, again, it kind of speaks to that Buckminster Fuller quote, which is like, let's not try to fight or contest the current system. Let's reinvent one that makes the old one obsolete. And, you know, that's kind of the idea, the dream, the vision behind regeneration and making regenerative agriculture, you know, this new possibility that the world is like, this is what we want, is one of my dreams and objectives and missions of Kiss the Ground. I love that so much. Well, for everyone listening, because we haven't fully described this yet, what exactly is regenerative agriculture? Yeah, so regenerative agriculture is an agriculture

where the farming system, the interaction of farming, has a regenerative effect in that the soils are getting healthier year after year. There's more biodiversity within those soils, in that the soils are getting healthier year after year. There's more biodiversity within those soils, below ground and above ground. It's comprised of basically five main principles. So cover cropping and crop diversification. So basically, instead of every year when you grow a cash crop, you then, after that cash crop is done,

you oftentimes will till the ground and you will leave it bare till the next cash crop. But ultimately, soil is a living organism that needs to be fed. Just like all things that are living, they need to eat. And what do they eat? They eat carbon sugar. From what? From plants.

So if you have half your year where you have no living plants in the soil, that means the soil biology is not eating for a half a year, which is not a healthy situation. So you're keeping the plant or the ground covered with a cover crop during your off season. And instead of just having one cover crop, you're putting a diversity of crops so that you're getting a diversity of inputs and feeding a diversity of biology under the soil. So crop diversity, keeping the cover or the soil covered, doing low to no tillage. So mostly we think of like tilling is important for farming, you know, plowing up the ground, plowing up the ground. But there's actually something called a no-till drill, which allows us to plant into the soil without disrupting that whole system. Because the soil is literally like a living internet. There's a web of biology and fungi, and there's this

living web underneath the ground. And when you take a plow or, you know, um, a disking that ground, you know, you're, you're destroying that. So there's obviously some situations where you do need to do that, but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's the principles of regenerative agriculture is doing the least amount of mechanical disturbance. Um, number four is, um, number four is animal integration. Um, at one, we described this in the film, we separated animal livestock producers and annual because the animals are the ones that actually are pooping and their dung and urine are actually essential nutrients to cycle nutrients on a piece of ground. So making sure that we have animals on a farm that can help cycle and bring nutrients back into the system. And then I said diversification, but also focusing on more perennials. So perennial crops are crops that grow year after year versus annual crops. You have to plant, you have to fertilize, you have to till, you have to plant, you have

to fertilize, you have to till, you have to plant, you have to fertilize, you have to till. So it's every year versus a tree crop or a bush crop, you know, or you're basically planting once and then year after year, you're able to receive food and nutrients from those plants, but you're needing to, there's much less inputs and disturbance of that soil. So, you know, those are the five basic principles. But there's, you know, in different contexts, there's many different methodologies that are incorporated in regenerative agriculture. But for the most part, it's, again, crop diversification,

keeping the soil covered, animal integration, low to no tilling of the soil, and integration of biodiversity was really cool in the documentary, you guys had this incredible rancher that told his story where the first couple years he was doing heavy tilling, he was using a ton of synthetic pesticides. And the first, I think it was three years, he lost 100% of it or something. And it wasn't until he started practicing regenerative farming that he was able to create crops and a whole ecosystem that was resilient because he was for once working with nature instead of against it with tilling and all the synthetic pesticides. Yeah, that was Gabe Brown, who's a rancher out of North Dakota, which actually he just, just last Thursday, he actually spoke before the House Agricultural Committee of the new administration. Their first committee meeting was focused on how agriculture and climate change are connected. And he was the voice of the farmer for that meeting. And it was a remarkable, remarkable success and momentum. But yes, Gabe Brown is, you know, he's a remarkable example of somebody growing a diverse cropping system on 5,000 acres.

And he's profiting where the average American farm is profiting somewhere between $3 and $5 an acre per year. He's profiting over $100 per acre per year. And he's built his soil organic matter from, I think, 1% to 2% to somewhere between 7% plus soil organic matter, which for every percent of soil organic matter per acre, I believe it's almost 10 to 20 thousand tons of atmospheric CO2 has been sequestered for every one percent. And for every one percent of soil organic matter that's been built into that soil, you can hold 20 plus thousand more gallons of water per acre in that land. And why that's so significant is that we have rain that falls. And the problem is the rain doesn't necessarily fall. It's the fact that it actually

mostly doesn't infiltrate and actually get into the soil where it's needed and get back into our aquifers and draining through the system. It just runs off into our rivers and into our oceans, which create dead zones and erosion. But if water is falling on land that's healthy and can infiltrate, it can create effective and efficiency and success for farmers, but it also can actually rehydrate our aquifers that are beneath our farmland, which if you think about this whole country of this as a big tilled piece of farmland, and there's almost an impenetrability of water being able to infiltrate back into our land. So it's just running off and not actually hydrating this, you know, this big piece of agricultural land.

And so the opportunities and the, yeah, the possibilities are just so, so exciting for the adoption of regenerative agriculture at a large scale. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible that we can use these plants and diversify the microbiome of the soil to then, it's called sequest or what is it? Biosequestration, I believe, where you pull the carbon out of the atmosphere and bring it

back into the plants, correct? That's right. Yeah. Biosequestration or carbon sequestration. And see, I see this as a win-win. It's a total win-win. There was a book that was edited- On all fronts. On all fronts. It really is, you know, we've said before that soils are common ground. It really is something that both sides of the fence can agree upon. Everybody wants healthy food, healthy water, healthy, you know, air, clean air. And, you know, the ability to grow healthy food and build healthy soil is in the benefit of all.

And, you know, obviously, you know, the kind of barriers are you have big behemoth business interests called chemical seed companies, chemical fertilizer companies that, you know, want our dependency on those chemicals, those chemicals and those seeds and those genetically modified seeds. And so, you know, obviously there's a huge vested interest in keeping that system dependent on those big businesses. Um, and so there obviously is a huge barrier for getting large scale adoption because the farming system, the infrastructure, the commodity crops, the crop insurance situation is all, you know, hedge towards keeping people in this, um this system, which keeps this big business continue to be thriving. But there, there, there is a growing awareness of the public that really says, we want something different from our food system. And as we all know, even though it's, you know, somewhat, you know, we've heard

it before, like the power is in the people's hands. It really is true. You know, when we are demanding that this shall be, it shall be. And so, you know, again, I'm grateful for you and all your, you know, advocating and spreading the good word and the good voice of people who are, you know, understanding the importance of good food and, you know, are working their little angle and their little, you know, region of how we can transform this, you know, behemoth, this, you know, this, you know, titanic of a ship towards a new system. But I do think that we are at a moment when, you know, the new administration, we're at a moment where there is a higher listening and a regard for, you know, the

urgency of climate change for that we need to create more equity in our food system, we need more equality when it comes to land access and who has access to healthy food. And, you know, we're also dealing with, you know, huge expense of health care and people starting to understand that healthy food equals healthy people and less strain on our health care system. So, you know, I do think we are in a good moment and I am optimistic, even though I know that, you know, we're, we, we, we are just a drop in the bucket of impact. But I do feel, I still feel hopeful and optimistic that we can make a change. I think you're bigger than just a drop in the bucket. But I want to go back a little bit, because I think this is another important component of all this is the policies that keep all of these farmers stuck in place, the subsidies that we pay them, and just the way that our agriculture

is set up right now. This is shocking. So corn, soy, and hay are 70% of the U.S. cropland of the United States of what we grow. And 99% of that goes to animals. So the animals, the livestock that live in feedlots. And I think this is a really important component for people to understand because as we start learning about this, we need to start changing our, the way that our, that we subsidize our tax dollars and how we pay these farmers and what we pay them to grow. I love you brought up that rancher, Gabe Brown. He talked a lot about this. He said that he doesn't want to be on welfare anymore. And when I heard him say that, I was like, oh my God.

All these farmers essentially that are growing corn, soy, wheat, they're essentially living on welfare from the government because we're paying them to grow those crops. And we now know that they don't really impact our health well. Like we don't we need to start getting away from that. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I'm not. My co-founder, Finian Makepeace, runs the policy division of Kiss the Ground.

And there is some very exciting things that are kind of coming on the policy front for Kiss the Ground and for the regenerative movement. Awesome. mostly the large scale commodity crop farmers that are producing food that is not feeding people. It's feeding animals in, as you said, in the CAFO's concentrated animal feedlot operations, which is an environmental and ethical, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare in every sense of the word yeah um and so that's what your tax dollars are paying for is the subsidizing of those three crops that go to a nightmare of a feedlot operation and you know that is the current reality that we're faced with and then you know the other aspect of it is that crop insurance is also, if you're doing, basically, if you're using the standard issue seed, if you're using the standard issue, um, chemicals, um, then, and, and the standard issue,

um, sort of methodologies, you can get crop insurance. Basically you're, you're be insured, which again, farming is very, you know, you're at the mercy of nature. You're at the mercy of the elements. And so it's scary for farmers to go and do anything different. And again, you know, you know, I just, I want to emphasize that, you know, I'm, I live on, I live in California. I don't have a, you know, I live on a small organic farm, but in relationship to, you know, the big farming systems of this country, you know, I don't, I don't know the complexity of it. I don't know. I don't, you know, I don't want to pretend that I have a deep knowledge. But what I do know is that, you system and the current protocols are, one, destroying

our soil. They're producing food that, again, farmers are well-intended. They're doing the best they can. They're feeding their families. But they're ultimately in a trap called, these are the tools that they've been given. These are the tools that they have some history and knowledge of. And yet things they need to get more land to be able to able to sustain. You know, there's a statement in farming in America, which is like, go get big or get out.

And that's kind of what has happened. And so, you know, we've lost so many small family farmers in America. And essentially, the system is failing. It's eroding. And we need, and that's what's exciting. What's exciting is there's an undeniable sort of failure in the current system that has to be investigated, that has to be, you know, it's kind of like, you know, the failure within, you know, the whole movement around social justice and social unrest and, you know, systemic racism. It's like, all right, this is an undeniable problem that needs to get addressed. And that is what I think we're facing. And that's

what's being discovered within our food system right now. And the good news is, is there's, you know, models and examples of regenerative agriculture that are showing there can be a way to pivot away from this destructive system. And, you know, that's, that's, that's the story that we're excited to broadcast and tell and, you know, shout from the rooftops. Yes. And I love that so much. Also, the irony of the feedlots is that we are paying, you know, we're essentially feeding these animals and they're the ones that are producing the most greenhouse gases. So, and the problem isn't even the animal, it's the actual containment that we put them in and our tax dollars are paying for that, which is so ironic. But I brought this up earlier. There was an article that came out this morning in the LA Times and the USDA is talking

about creating carbon banks for farmers. Have you heard about this? Where basically the program would include paying farmers to use strategies that will hopefully help reduce emissions. And hopefully the conversation is also about regenerative farming included in that. Yeah. So there's definitely a big debate about this in the movement. There's definitely, you know, on one side, it's like, how are we going to motivate farmers to go in this direction of more healthy soil-based agricultural practices, less chemicals, less tillage? And, you know, one way to do that is create a secondary a, a total sort of, um, system that is just, it's almost like it's another, uh, monoculture thinking. Like we're only thinking about carbon, um, versus biodiversity, which is so key, you know, um, and having, because a biodiverse system is

a resilient system and a healthy system. So the idea that we're just going to focus on carbon and, you know, a couple of challenges with this is it could allow big industry to just continue to do what they're doing and say, oh, we're paying farmers to take care of our carbon for us. So, you know, that's... While they continue to pollute. That's right. And then it also allows for big companies to make a lot of money off of carbon credits

and that the money actually doesn't trickle down and become relevant and accessible to farmers. And so, you know, there's definitely, there's good possibility in, can we pay farmers to do healthy soil practices that do sequester carbon, that do create more biodiversity, that do create more resilience, that do create more resilience, that do create more water impermeability. But the challenge is, you know, it's yet to be seen how it actually gets our, it's kind of the devils in the details. Like it's a big concept that could be amazing. And if we paid farmers, you know, overnight, everybody would start cover cropping. But the, also the, the, the challenges is we need that, that application

along with contextual education. And so that's, you know, one of the things that Kiss the Ground has been, you know, wanting to create is creating more virtual learning. We have a course on our website that was produced by Gabe Brown and Ray Archuleta, who are in the films called Soil Health 101. And it's an amazing course for farmers, ranchers, and anybody working in the agricultural space that wants to really understand the deep knowledge and education of regenerative agriculture and how it's applicable and applicable and useful on a farm. Because just giving someone an incentive to do something, if they don't have the proper contextual education, it's not going to result in the full benefit.

So the opportunity is huge with carbon credits for farmers, but the money does need to get to farmers and there needs to be accompanied technical knowledge and education that goes along with it so that they actually understand what they're doing versus just doing sort of a mechanical action of, all right, we're just going to try to catch carbon in the most effective way. And ultimately, it doesn't result into a net gain of long-term stored carbon in our deep soils. Absolutely. Well, these farmers need to be educated on the importance of healthy soil, like we've been talking about in this whole episode. Honestly, all the farmers just need to see your documentary and then we can go from there.

Yeah. I mean, that was that was the point was how do we get a piece of media content that could be largely accessible? And, you know, so that's why we were beyond grateful that we were able to get the film on Netflix. And it's around the world and in 40 different countries, 25 different languages. And, you know, there's an estimation of about 5 million views of the film. So, yeah, our hope is over the next, you know, two to three years, that number can significantly grow. And that regenerative agriculture really becomes this kind of new normal that we're aspiring to go in this direction with our food system. Yeah, absolutely. We need to get that documentary in the hands of Biden and Vilsack. Well, no, we actually got the film. Vilsack has seen the film and actually wrote us a quote

and actually says that he sees regenerative agriculture as the future of our agricultural system. He gave us a quote. So there's, yeah, there is a huge opportunity to, yeah, work with the current leadership to really drive this home. So it's, it is a very exciting moment. That's incredible. I do have to ask you though, because you know, Vilsack is known for being in bed with Monsanto. So what role do you think that this is going to play with big agriculture and chemical fertilizers? Because obviously are the way that we are farming right now relies heavily on those synthetic fertilizers? Yeah. So, yeah, there's not an easy, quick answer for that. But, you know, I think the way that things, there is going to need to be huge amounts

of infrastructure, you know, cover cropping seed, no-till drills, biologicals, biologicals meaning farming inputs that are coming from biological sources, whether it's kelp or fish emulsion or, you know, biologically rich sort of microbiome compost teas, if you will, that can be applied to soils. So there will be a lot of, you know, in the transition of depending on the cropping system, there will be a need for biological inputs that the big ag, you know, companies that are producing these synthetics, um, could move into, um, this biologicals input space and cover crop seed and, um, you know, seeds that are not genetically modified and not, you know, um, collaborating with glyphosate, you know, roundup ready seed. Um, so, you know, again, it, again, it is a difficult thing because their business model is

solely developed on these tools that want to keep farmers entrenched and dependent on those seeds, on those chemicals. And, you know, the question is, will they see the writing on the wall and pivot and shift? Um, or are they going to, you know, hang on for dear life and continue to say that this is the future of food production? Um, we, we don't know. Um, but yes, it's true that Vilsack in the past was, um, very, um, helpful and passed a lot of legislation that supported, you know, genetically modified foods coming into our systems. Yeah, I mean, he has a he has a in a lot of ways a pretty intense track record. But, you know, the the reality is, is there's lots of politicians who their past track record was things that were like. Doesn't define them.

Yeah, well, it doesn't define them and people change. And, you know, as the public, you know, I think, you know, one prime example of this is like Barack Obama wasn't in support of gay marriage until it became a publicly very acceptable thing. And then he was totally in support of gay marriage. So, you know, the entrenchment of orthodoxy and views, as the public becomes aware, awakened, and demanding and putting pressure that this is what we want, that does change the political will and the political view of politicians. So, you know, that's what, you know, we're, we're in the early stages of brewing up a campaign called Regenerate America, which is all about putting awareness um, awareness and, um, signatures behind

reforming the 2023 farm bill. Uh, it's almost $500 billion of money going towards our agricultural and our nutrition, uh, of this country. And the opportunity that lies before us and, you know, at 2023 is how that farm bill will be rewritten and where allocation of funds are going to go. And, you know, can we drive a huge public support for that transformation or that reformation? And, you know, that would be, you know, maybe the biggest victory that Kiss the Ground could rally and get behind, you know, that would be, you know, maybe the biggest victory that Kiss the Ground could rally and get behind, you know, over these next few years. And that's what we're in development on. That's so incredible. And I just have to say, I'm very hopeful that as more people hear these kind of conversations, which is why I wanted to have you on, the more people that wake

up to this and hear these kind of conversations happen, the more change that we're going to start to see, you know, because like you said, it's becoming more and more of a demand from people. It's, you know, it's becoming a grassroots kind of thing that's only becoming bigger and bigger as people are really waking up to the way that our food is produced, how it's affecting our health, how it's affecting our healthcare system, the burden that it's putting on our healthcare system. So yeah, I'm really hopeful that it's moving in a good direction and that we're going to get there. And, you know, we just have to see what happens and we have to keep putting pressure on our politicians and only get

louder that this is what we want and demand better of our food system. That's right. And it's, you know, it's the substance of life. It's the thing that, it's the basis for health, for family, for civilization. It is in the realm of essential things. It's essential that we have healthy food for a healthy society. And I just think that we do as we need to get louder and clearer about that message. And we need to be able to, you know, direct those solutions and towards those policies to shift that, you know, huge architecture and infrastructure of the farm bill and of the entrenchment of our current system. But I do think that it can change. And it's what I've given my life to supporting.

I love that so much. Okay, I have two more questions for you before we go. So when we hear, so scientists are talking about this a lot recently. They're saying that cutting meat is the single best environmental action that a person can take. But after learning more about regenerative farming, the role that livestock plays in grazing, I think there's no denying the fact that every human on this planet would do better by cutting back on their meat consumption. I think no one will argue with you on that from an environmental and a health perspective. However, does that mean, do you think that people need to go vegan? Or I'm just, I'm curious to hear what your

perspective is on that. No, I think that, I think the, there is a mainstream narrative, which is like veganism is, and that's being driven by, you know, a huge, huge PR budget of the Impossible Burgers. Big tech. And big tech, big pharma, big food, big ag. And, you know, the idea that, you know, we're going to save the world by monoculture, soy, wheat, you know, spraying glyphosate. The idea of veganism and the philosophy as urban dwellers who live in cities who are wanting to participate in this good food revolution, yes, to eat a more plant-based diet

is definitely a healthy choice. But again, it's not just veganism is not the answer. It's really about where our food's being grown and how it's being grown. It's not, it's what, it's not, it's like before. It's not the cow, it's the how. It's not the vegan. It's how those vegan ingredients being grown. If they're being grown in a monoculture with pesticides, insecticides, you know, fungicides, then, you know, we're ultimately

still just killing life on the farm, killing life, um, in nature versus, um, you know, buying food from a diversified cropping system that's caring for soil, um, and caring for biodiversity. Uh, and that, you know, those kinds of foods are going to be helpful and regenerative. So I would say that there is a, there's a, there's a main billboard, which is yes, eat, eat more plants. But there's definitely a secondary billboard that if you want to get into the nuts and bolts of farming and agriculture and how to regenerate, we are going to need animals. And those animals are going to be a system where there is life and death, because that's always been the way that animals have interacted on land is that there's...

That's how nature works. That's how nature works. It's architecture. And so, yeah, it's eating less meat. And when you eat meat, it's eating meat from systems that are, you know, pasture raised and grass fed, grass finished. And I know that, you know, there's an element of that's like, you know, very kind of elitist and like very expensive. And it is more expensive at this time. And, you know, basically the way our food is so cheap is because it's being subsidized.

We have subsidized crap food, which then, you know, we have crap health and then we have, you know, a lot of, you know, healthcare. And so, you know, we, as my step-mom said, you pay for it now or you pay for it later, that, you know, our health is our wealth. And if we're investing in, you know, healthy food, that is going to be an investment in the longevity and the wealth and health of our life. And so, you know, we're obviously recommending people to, you know, go to your farmer's market, meet your farmer, understand how they're treating their soil, how they're building their soil,

find out what farmers are doing regenerative or soil enhancing practices and, you know, support those farmers, talk about those farmers, share about those farmers on social media, make those farmers famous, make those farmers important because they are. They're stewarding the planet and they're feeding healthy communities. And that is, there's nothing more essential than that. So, you know, that is something to make a priority and to get right in our, in our, you know, everything that we're committed to, that would be something that is important to get committed to. And, you know, another thing that we're recommending is everyone to become a soil advocate, kiss the ground, you know, follow kiss the ground

on social. We, we have tons of amazing content that we put out about the regenerative movement. We also built a course called the SAT, the soil advocacy training, which I would love you to take that Courtney. It'll just give you that much more ability to communicate and articulate powerful, poised way around this topic. And because you're already such a evangelist for good food, that'll just give you that much more sharpness in this area. So I highly recommend that. And, you know, we, I think we've had about, you know,

over 3000 people in 25 countries all around the world participate that have actually, I just heard this this morning that a farmer in Canada who had been farming and kind of advocating, they went through the, they went through the soil advocacy training course, they did their first TED talk, and now they've been pioneering a piece of policy that's bringing in $300 million into Canada that is being directed towards the implementation of regenerative agricultural policy. So, you know, you never know when someone gets woke and committed to something, how powerful they can become. And so, you know, I just highly recommend everybody to take that course, soil advocacy training. And also, you know, we're a nonprofit.

So, you know, we fund farmers to be able to make this transition. We fund their education and soil testing and mentorship so that they can make this transition successfully. So support our farmland program, participate in one of our courses, become a member. As little as $5 a month, you can support Kiss the Ground. As a nonprofit, we depend on generous folks such as yourselves who see the value of our advocacy work and want to keep it going. So yeah, thank you for this opportunity to share and this podcast, and I really appreciate it. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was going to ask you as my last question, what can people do on a personal, individual level to help with this movement?

But you pretty much answered that already, so I don't know if you have anything else you want to add to that. Yeah, I would say my two other things is compost. Compost, it's one of the ways that we can participate in regeneration is not letting our food waste become waste and actually turn it back into fertility, giving back to Mother Earth. It's this idea of how do we have a reciprocity relationship with Mother Earth. We take so much, we're consumers as quote unquote, and how do we give back to Mother Earth? And composting is one of the ways that we can do that. We can turn our food scraps, our waste, and turn that back into what we call black gold, which is, you know, compost and reintegrate that back into our soil systems. Um, and we can do that at a small scale or a larger scale, depending on, you know, where we live and, um, what our situation

is. Um, but figure out how you can compost. Um, and there's some guidance for that on the Kiss the Ground website. Uh, there's even a site called makesoil.com where you can, um, find someone who's making soil or making compost in your neighborhood and you can drop off to them. So check that out. And then just, you know, the last thing is, you know, when we start to connect with nature more and we start to participate in growing life. So planting a little garden, whether it's on your windowsill or in your backyard, have the experience of caring for and stewarding life. It's really the most magical and fulfilling thing. There's a beautiful quote that says, if you want to have fun for a couple hours, drink whiskey. If you want to have fun for a couple years, find a girlfriend and get married. If you want to have fun for a couple years, find a girlfriend and get

married. If you want to have fun for a lifetime, start gardening. And, you know, it really is true. There's nothing more fulfilling than tending to life, tending to the soil, tending to Mother Earth and growing something and then being able to be nourished from that thing that you grew. So that's my last thing. And then also host screenings of Kiss the Ground. Kiss the Ground is really the film that can awaken people to this message in a very powerful way. So we've, I think, screened maybe over 300 screenings of the film thus far, and there's like

a thousand more requests. But literally you can do it on your own. We also have an educational cut that's free to farmers and to teachers. So we'll be launching that in April, but there's literally an educational cut that's been combined with a teacher's curriculum from the National Science Teachers Association that'll be available on their site, which is available to over 100,000 schools. So if you're a teacher and you want to teach about regeneration in your classroom, we have a curriculum and a 45-minute cut of the film that's ready and freely available to be shared in classrooms. That's amazing. Wow, so powerful. Yeah, we have a ton more resources at

kisstheground.com. We've made 60 short films that are all tools for communicating and messaging this idea that can be shared on social media. So yeah, let's just make regenerative agriculture the new normal. It's the idea whose time has come. And everyone who eats can participate. And everyone who is a storyteller and a messenger and has something to say can be an advocate and evangelist for this message. That's who we are. We were nobody special. We just wanted to share this idea and got passionate about it and have done it for the last seven years. And this is what it's turned into. Well, I just want to commend you for what you guys are doing. It's really important and really

powerful. And thank you for being a very impactful voice in this realm. That's really needed right now. Yeah, it's really cool. My pleasure. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share. And thanks for calling me to, to, um, yeah, your podcast. And I look forward to staying in touch and have a really great day. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the real foodology podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. People, they make me down, down But I try So what if he doesn't like me? At least I know I am for him My time won't be wasted anymore

You are standing twice above me I'm all you're feeling I want to be the one who's gonna, gonna, gonna be great I want to be the one who's gonna, gonna, gonna be great I want to be the one who's gonna, gonna, gonna be great I know that smile is funny Cause I always see him, see him Checking me out All he thinks about is to kiss him And make me dance, dance

Like I'm his guy So if he doesn't like me At least I know I got my hand All he's got is a kiss anymore He won't see the question from me But all he's feeling Thank you. I'll see you next time.