Realfoodology - 48: The Diabesity Epidemic & How to Combat it with Jonathan Bailor

Episode Date: July 28, 2021

Jonathan Bailor is the Founder, CEO, and Executive Chef of the Inc 500 fastest growing metabolic healing and Diabesity treatment company SANE Solution. He authored the New York Times best seller The Calorie Myth and The Setpoint Diet, starred in and produced the award-winning movie BETTER, has spoken at Fortune 100 companies and TED conferences for over a decade, and created the best-selling brain, gut, and hormone supplements Vitaae, Viscera-3, Luminae, and Aamia.  Jonathan joins me to talk about Diabesity, what it is, what the solution is and why it’s not a character flaw but a real disease that deserves love and compassion. We also talk about the psychological aspects of diabesity and how to get help  Show Links: https://bettermovie.com/ https://sanesolution.com/ https://jonathanbailor.com/

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If we can just make steps to eat better over time, there will still be people who are overweight. There will still be people who have diabetes. But the diabesity epidemic can be eradicated. Hi, welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. I am your host, Courtney Swan.

I am the creator behind Real Foodology, which is, of course, this podcast. It's also an Instagram, and it started as a food blog. Actually, I started it in my very small apartment when I was living in Austin 10 years ago. I was going back to school for nutrition. I was getting my master's in nutrition nutrition and I needed an outlet to speak about all the things I was learning about in school, hence Real Foodology, which has morphed into so many things I could have never even imagined back then. And I'm actually sitting in Austin recording this right now, which is really cool. It's kind of come back full circle 10 years later.

So I've been giving you guys little updates of what is going on in my life and my whereabouts. I'm on a bit of a, I've been calling it a soul journey this summer, but it's more of just a, um, needing to get out of LA for a second, really just wanted to cancel out and calm all of the noise and really just get back to me and spend a lot of solo time together. A lot of solo time together, meaning a lot of solo time with myself and my cute little dog, Turkey. I've been in Austin for about three weeks now, and my plan was to leave next week to go to Colorado. And I'm actually cutting my trip a little bit short. I'm going to go to Colorado this weekend instead, because I get a chance to see my mom. So I'm going to head to Telluride for a little bit, see my mom.

And I just booked a gorgeous apartment in Boulder for the summer, which I'm very excited about. This was kind of my plan all along. I left room for the possibility of staying in Austin if I really felt called and like I needed to stay here or if I like met a cool guy or something, but, um, which I've actually met a few really amazing guys. But that all being said, I decided that I feel called to go to Colorado now. Who knows? I may come back to Austin. But, you know, to be honest, I'm just not really sure if Austin is my place.

I think it's an amazing city. And I've met really, really cool people here. And I've made some really amazing friends. But, you know, I got to say, I really miss nature. And I know if you're listening and you live in Austin, you're going to argue me on this because I've been hearing this a lot. Well, Austin has the lakes and you know, we have all the trails and stuff. And that is very true. And I've gone on some hikes here, but I just, I'm a very avid hiker. If you follow me on Instagram, you know that hikes are a very integral part of my everyday life. I generally go for an hour hike every single day when I'm in

LA and the hikes in LA and also in Colorado are just not, the Austin hikes are just not comparable to those hikes. And I really miss that the most. I also really can't handle the heat here and the humidity. It's a lot. I lived in Austin, like I said, 10 years ago. So I really have an idea of what my life was like here then. And, you know, there was a reason I left Texas. I just can't with the weather, you guys. But I think it's such an amazing place and I will definitely come back to visit. But I think Colorado is calling me next. And who knows, I may end up back in LA and my intuition is telling me that's probably going to be the case. But I'm also allowing room for whatever comes to me to come. So I'm headed to Boulder. I will be there for the rest of the summer. And then we'll

probably be heading back to LA at the end of the summer. I also have a couple of friends living in Boulder for the summer, which is really exciting. So I think it's going to be a really great time. If you guys want to follow more of my everyday, definitely go to my Instagram. It's at real foodology and you can follow along and see my see my whereabouts and what I'm doing. So today's episode is with Jonathan Baylor. He is the founder, CEO, and executive chef of the Inc. 500 fastest-growing metabolic healing and diabesity treatment company called Sane Solution. And yes, you heard that right, diabesity. This is not a term that he

coined actually, shockingly enough. It might be a new term to your ears, but we talk about this. It's actually a real medical term. He authored the New York Times bestseller, The Calorie Myth and The Setpoint Diet. And he also starred in and produced the award-winning movie, Better, which I highly recommend checking that movie out. We're going to leave it in the show notes. I definitely think that everyone needs to see this film, so share it with your family, your loved ones, your friends. The message that Jonathan has is so needed right now.

I mean, I have to tell you guys, this is one of my favorite episodes that I have recorded yet, just because I think it's so important, this conversation. It's really on the forefront of what we're facing right now in the United States. I mean, obesity is being considered a new pandemic. We now have an estimated one in four people that are either diabetic or pre-diabetic. This is really a problem, especially considering diabetes too is reversible and it's also preventable. A hundred years ago, one in every 4,000 people was diabetic and now it's one in four. That is really scary and shocking. So we go into the details of why that is, why we're facing this pandemic of obesity. We also talk about, we go into great lengths about how this is not a character flaw and there

should not be shame associated around this. And we talk about how we need to be treating obesity like the disease that it is. And we need to treat people that are dealing with it with love and compassion, the same way that we would treat someone that has cancer. He makes a great point in this episode where he says, you know, if someone goes to the doctor and they're diagnosed with cancer, we don't shame them and say, I can't believe that you did this to yourself and, uh, you know, shun them. In fact, we, we say like, you know, this is a problem and we need to get this out of your body. We need to address this immediately. And we address it with love and compassion. And this is the same way that we need to be treating obesity and diabetes. These are not shameful diseases. These are not a moral

issue. They don't say something about the person. It's really an issue. It's a metabolic disorder that's going on in the body and it needs to be addressed. It needs to be addressed immediately. So we have an amazing conversation about that. We talk about what exactly diabetes is, how we got to this point, what is the set point, which you're probably wondering what the heck is the set point. You're just gonna have to listen to hear what that is.

We also talk about calories in versus calories out, what people can do in order to reverse diabetes or prevent it altogether. This is such an amazing conversation and I'm so excited for you guys to hear this. So if you love the episode, I would just ask that you please rate and review, please share it with your friends and family. Uh, this is really how we get the word out and how we get this podcast on more ears. So all of your rates and reviews means so much and they really, really help the show. So thank you guys so much for listening. I really hope you enjoy the episode. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of us are concerned about aging.

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Hi, Jonathan. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me, Courtney. Yeah, I'm so, so excited to get into this. I told you this before we started recording, but I heard you recently on a podcast talking about diabesity. And I was just like, oh my God, I had never heard that term before. Ironically, I maybe had used it a year or two ago to describe the concept, but I didn't know that it was actually a concept that people are talking about now. So let's just dive right into it. Can you tell everyone what diabesity is? First and foremost, you highlighted really the key issue here, which is diabesity. Most people think, even medical doctors, think it's a term that I made up. They think

it's a catchy sort of new phrase, but in reality, it's an established medical condition. If you go to PubMed and you search for diabesity, you'll see papers on it. And even more importantly is the fact that it kills more people than any other disease. And people think I literally made the name up. So, I mean, imagine if nobody knew that cancer was a thing. It's almost hard to believe. But we have more people dying of diabetes and we don't even know what that thing is. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, and I was just looking up some stats before we got on this call. And, you know, like 100 years ago, one in every 4000 people was diabetic. And now we're estimating that one in four people are diabetic. And it's almost as if we're, we're ignoring this, or we're not really treating it as if it's like the real issue that it is. You hit the nail on the head. And when someone gets a diabetes diagnosis, and as you mentioned, there has been a 100,000% increase in this disease, it in some ways is treated like getting a cold diagnosis. I mean, it's like, okay, we'll manage this.

We'll put you on medication. You know, it's okay. And we need to dig into this a little bit because on one level, yes, it is okay. Like, you shouldn't be ashamed of this. You're not bad. You're not wrong. So on that yes, it is okay. Like, there's no shame. You shouldn't be ashamed of this. You're not bad. You're not wrong. So on that level, it is okay. But on the level of, like, if you went to the doctor

and the doctor said, you have breast cancer, nobody would be like, well, let's manage this. And it's okay. We would say, we need to fight this. Like, you can beat this. You are worth not having cancer. And we need to aggressively treat this disease. And we need to treat you with the compassion that anyone going through an aggressive treatment of a disease deserves. So, diabesity is as deadly, if not

more deadly than cancer. It is certainly more common, but it is treated as a, you know, manageable lifestyle condition. And I mean, if we have time to even get into the psychological aspects of this disease, I mean, it doesn't just destroy you physically. Potentially even more notorious is the psychological impacts that this disease has on you based on how our society and other individuals treat diabetes individuals. Yeah. I mean, and, and I, I heard you talk about this on the podcast and I was so touched by it. And I think this is such an important part of your message is that, um, what you're trying to convey is that it's not that people are not, not trying hard enough. And this is not some like character flaw,

that this is actually a disease that needs to be treated and taken care of. And we need to treat these people with love and compassion that are dealing with this because it really, it's a disease. There's a, and I know this firsthand because in my previous life, 20 years ago, I was one of these people who just said, look, just eat less

and exercise more. I was, I know what it's like to be in that mind space because I was that person. I was the, I like to call it skinny privileged, right? Like I was, I was too skinny. I couldn't gain weight. I tried to gain weight and I couldn't. So I had this mindset of if people would just eat less and exercise more and, you know, get off their fat asses, we can stop shoving their faces with hamburgers and French fries. You know, we could, we could address this issue. And then I got woke as hell over the past 15 years and found out that, well, one, of course there is always some level of personal responsibility involved in anything. But there are issues like, is there personal responsibility involved in someone who is suffering from an opioid addiction?

Yes. But we don't take that person, ostracize them, tell them they're stupid and ignorant, and that they just need to try harder to not take heroin. Like, that almost sounds absurd. You don't say to a heroin addict, look, idiot, just take less heroin, and you don't ridicule them. You say, first of all, you don't actually have a heroin problem. You have another situation going on that caused you to use heroin to treat it. Or that caused, you know, that so that there's that happening. So even if someone wants to say people just need to eat less, the question then becomes, well, they don't have an overeating problem. Like maybe they were raped as a child and this is how

they're dealing with that, which is very common by the way. So like, oh man, like talk about biting your tongue. But secondarily, there are myriad individuals. I would even say the majority of individuals who, if you were to look at calories, diabetes individuals are actually eating less on average than people who are not diabetes, because they're the people who know the calorie counts of everything. They're the people who are neurotic about it. Whereas the 30% of the population who isn't diabetes, and it's really only 30% of the population at this point who isn't diabetes or prediabetes, they don't, it's not that they're trying harder. It's that they've got some genetic blessings that allow their body to deal differently

with calories. Yeah. So what, I mean, so what causes this diabetes? I know that this is a multifaceted conversation, but I want to get into that so that maybe if someone's listening and they're struggling with this, how do we tackle this? I'm happy that you brought up the term multifaceted because I want to, I do actually want to talk about some real solutions today because sometimes people will say, well, obesity is a multifaceted, it's a multifactorial problem. And then they're just like to say, well, so we can't solve it because, well, we live in an obesogenic culture and well, there's food deserts and they make it sound like this is a completely unsolvable problem. And it is not an unsolvable problem, right? That's one of the things that I

get most excited about is we have a lot of problems that we're dealing with nowadays. And the diabesity epidemic is probably the most solvable of the global issues we're facing nowadays. And the reason for that is, is it doesn't require perfection. So let's take a step back. Let's wind the clock back to the 1960s. Not that long ago, right? We know people are alive today who were alive in the 1960s.

In the 1960s, soda existed. In the 1960s, ice cream existed. Apple pie, a great Americana existed, right? People ate bread and pasta and sweets in the 60s. So this idea that, you know, this is an unsolvable problem because it requires a complete overhaul of everything. False. There are certain incredibly problematic foods and there are certain incredibly problematic lifestyle behaviors. And there are incredibly problematic frequencies of those behaviors. So this is not an unsolvable problem that requires a perfect adherence to the keto diet or a perfect adherence to any diet. It is a solvable problem where if we make small improvements consistently over time to simply

eat better, I mean, take away, think, I mean, the average, if you just think about how, how far off from a life-sustaining way of eating the vast majority of Americans are, the fact that we're not just all dead is actually kind of shocking. Because, for example, if your day starts with toaster pastries or Pop-Tarts, or it's essentially starting your day with cake. Like, it's just starting your day with cake. And then lunch is cake. And then dinner your day with cake. Like, it's just starting your day with cake. And then lunch is cake. And then dinner is cake with soda.

I mean, that's toxic. And that's what didn't happen in the 50s. Yes, there was pizza. Yes, there was ice cream. But they were eaten on occasion. If we can just make steps to eat better over time, there will still be people who are overweight. There will still be people who have diabetes, but the diabesity epidemic can be eradicated. Yeah. I mean, you made some really good points there. I mean, we, we just don't eat the same

way that our grandparents did, you know? And also I think another, I bring this point up a lot. I think we're also being overexposed to food. I mean, if you think about when our grandparents were younger or probably throughout most of their life, you know, when you'd go to the gas station, it would just be gas and maybe like a Coca-Cola machine or something, you know? And now you go to Home Depot and it's like, I feel like I'm just like annihilated by this whole row of candy as I'm checking out. And it's just, um, yeah, we're, we're being constantly inundated with food everywhere we go, which I think is a huge problem too. I agree. It's, it's definitely a huge problem. And I think that by focusing on the quality of what we're eating, you can defend yourself against that. For example, it's much easier to not be pulled into the trap of the Home Depot candy checkout if you are full and satisfied. This is really exciting. Organifi now has kid stuff. They just released two kid

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offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. Right. So we live in a culture where we have two competing things happening. One, especially if you're a woman, if you're not hungry, you're programmed to think there's something wrong with you. Right. On some level. It's heartbreaking. It's misogynistic as hell. But women in our culture, and I'm speaking as a father of two daughters, so this is very close to my heart. Unless, like, women are taught to be quiet and small. So eating is incompatible with that,

which is shocking. So then this sort of constant siren song of snacks and candies and sweets is even louder. Plus, we have the whole thing where if you tell yourself, don't eat sugar, all your brain's going to do is sugar, sugar, sugar. It's going to look for sugar everywhere. So if we can instead, there's a paradox here because on one hand, we have an overabundance of food. On the other hand, the most effective treatment that I have personally seen for diabesity is to eat more but smarter because if you can fool yourself, pun intended, into overcoming diabetes, it becomes so much easier. But if you're constantly hungry and you're constantly deprived, the culture we live in will absolutely sabotage your efforts. Yeah, that's a really great point, actually, because I will say, as I improved my

diet over the years, I'm not even in the least bit tempted by any of that stuff. So I think it's a really great point. If you're actually in a state where your body is nourished, you're not going to look for those quick, cheap calories, you know, because you're just not going to need them. And can I give you an analogy that may sound like it's off the reservation, but I think it fits. So it sounds like you in many, I don't know your history, but it, what you just described to me, it sounds like a very healthy relationship with food. You you're, you're satisfied. You have a solid, satisfying relationship with food. So let's look at that word relationship, right? We also live in a culture where sex is everywhere, all over the place, right? Someone who is in a completely satisfied romantic relationship will find it much easier to not have anything happen with regards to the sex that surrounds

us everywhere than someone who is not. So this is why, you know, I get all these questions about fasting and keto and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm saying, look, none of that matters until we address your fundamental relationship with food. And actually below that is your fundamental relationship with yourself and with your body. None of this stuff matters until we get to that root issue. And that's what we cover in the movie Better, which is a lot of people think this is a nutrition issue. And you mentioned you have a master's degree in nutrition. And I studied nutrition extensively myself. people see a cognitive behavioral therapist or a psychiatrist or a psychologist before they see a nutritionist. Because unless you have that, unless you overcome the trauma or the shame that is at the heart of your broken relationship with food, all the nutrition information in the world isn't

going to help you. That is such a great point. Cause I will say when I don't have clients right now, but when I had clients, I felt the same way. I felt like I was acting more as a therapist than anything else for people. And I didn't feel qualified to talk about that. You know, I was like, Hey, you know, I can refer you out to therapists and you can address this because that really is an important component of it. Because until you can get to a place where you're in a healthy relationship with food, any nutrition advice that someone gives you is not going to be sufficient enough. You need to actually get to the root cause. And for anyone listening, there is no shame in that. We've all been through hardships in our life and we all deal with things in different ways. And it's just a

matter of taking care of yourself. And I say this all the time, that the way you eat and the way you feed your body is the most loving act of self-care you can possibly do for yourself. It's an incredibly intimate action. It's so important. I mean, when you think sometimes people say, what do you mean it's an intimate action? Well, take yourself out of the equation for a second. If you have children or nieces or nephews or if you're a teacher, just any relationship with small people, right? You are choosing what this tiny helpless human puts inside themselves. So like, think about it that way. You are putting things inside your body.

That is an incredibly intimate action. So don't let Ronald McDonald or General Foods determine what goes inside you. You determine. You determine that. So I want to deviate a little bit because I'm very curious. I want my audience to hear about this. So I had never heard of this concept before. Apparently it was a theory and now it's more than just a theory. But what is the set point? The set point is a concept. It's not like there's not a set point in your body,

but it's a concept that describes a much more complicated set of systems in your body, which maintain homeostasis. So if you remember high school biology class, you probably heard the term homeostasis, and that means that all living organisms work automatically to maintain balance. I mean, not to get too esoteric, but there's a reason that life exists here on planet Earth and not on the sun. It's a kajillion degrees on the sun and life can't exist at a kajillion degrees. And that's why we're very fortunate that on this planet, it really doesn't get above 140 and it doesn't get below, you know, whatever negative, whatever, because

life can only exist in a range. So that doesn't just exist on a macro scale. It exists on a micro scale, even down to each of your cells. Like each of your cells has to maintain certain balance within the cellular composition or life can't exist. So the basis of all biological function is the organism automatically maintains balance, else it dies. So if you look at human beings, for example, you step into a hot room, what does your body do to homeostatically maintain body temperature? You sweat. Right? What happens if you drink more water? You automatically go to the bathroom more. You don't have to think about it. You can certainly temporarily hold your breath, but your body will win eventually because it homeostatically regulates respiration.

Your body homeostatically regulates any and all essential bodily functions, functions that are required for life. So all the set point theory, and the reason it's not a theory anymore is saying is that, well, if we all agree that your body homeostatically regulates life-sustaining functions, take like blood pressure, blood sugar, well, energy balance is a life-sustaining function. If you eat too little, you die. If you eat too much, you die. So why wouldn't the body homeostatically regulate calories in and calories out? Is that an exception to every other system in the body? And so all the set point is saying is that your body has a series of set points for all life-sustaining functions.

And in fact, we're now seeing even happiness has a set point, right? People, there's been studies done where people become paralyzed and after a period of time, they essentially resume their, their previous happiness or they win the lottery and time passes and they regress back down to their happiness. So the idea is that your body homeostatically works to keep you within a set range and you cannot overpower that range you can change that range and that's a very very important distinction because once you embrace that your body isn't a passive vessel where if you just eat 500 fewer calories for seven days you'll lose a pound but that your body has an opinion, then it fundamentally changes your approach to potentially everything,

but definitely eating because you understand that just eating less doesn't necessarily cause a calorie deficit. It just causes your body to slow down. And then you say, ah, crap, there has to be a different approach. Yeah. So, I mean, and this would explain why, you know, there's some people that can, let's say, eat like 3000 calories and they burn it off and they don't, you know, gain a pound. And then, I mean, I personally know some people that struggle and they just eat 800 calories a day and they can't lose anything to save their life. And so is that really what's happening? Is this kind of the core of what's happening in individuals that have diabetes? In individuals that have diabetes,

the way we describe it is they have an elevated set point, both an elevated, or they have a dysregulated set point. And in diabetes, you've got a dysregulated blood sugar set point, right? That's, so let's think about this, right? Like this is all on some level, I'm getting excited about this because this, it's really important that folks understand that this isn't a theory and I'm going to try to explain it in a way that makes it obvious that it's not a theory. So for example, we do know that blood sugar is homeostatically regulated. You don't, you shouldn't have to think about your blood sugar levels. The only time you have to think about your blood sugar

levels is if your body's ability to balance them automatically breaks. And when that happens, you have a disease. It's called diabetes. And what happens when you get that diagnosis? Well, then you manually need to take over that which should be automatic. You have to measure your blood sugar. You have to inject yourself with insulin. You are taking over that which your body used to do automatically because the system broke. Okay. The same thing applies for energy balance. So you can, in, in case of the disease obesity, your body weight set point has become dysregulated. And now you could try to manually intervene and track calories in, calories out. Unfortunately, that's actually impossible.

And if we have time, we could talk about that. But in both cases, you have your blood sugar set point has become dysregulated. Your body weight set point has become dysregulated, your body weight set point has become dysregulated. If both of those happen simultaneously, which is very common, you have diabesity. And the good news is not the good news, but there is a consistent underlying cause for both and that's inflammation in your brain, imbalances in your hormones, and dysbiosis in your gut. And if we can address those brain, gut and hormonal issues, we can fix the symptoms. We can remedy the set points and we can reverse diabetes. So that was going to be my next question is how we, yeah, I mean, how do we reverse it?

Actually, before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit more about, you mentioned there's also something going on in the brain. And I, I heard you talk about this recently, the hypothalamus and more specifically that what's happening is there's inflammation in the brain and then it's sabotaging our efforts to maintain a healthy, yeah, or maintain a healthy body weight. Can we talk about that a little bit more? The way your body weight set point becomes elevated is that one or more of the following three things happen. Usually more than one of them is happening. One is your brain becomes inflamed. And when your brain becomes inflamed, there are areas becomes inflamed there are areas of your brain like your ventromedial and lateral hypothalamus

that are designed to monitor calories in and calories out and to understand the level of fat that you have stored on your body and they do that by interacting with hormones and your gut something called the vagus nerve there's hormones like the hormone leptin which your brain is getting signals and then might upregulate your metabolism or downregulate your metabolism or compel you to move more to maintain energy balance. But when the brain becomes inflamed, it is essentially unable to hear those messages or it is unable to respond correctly. It's a

little bit, you know, like duct tape has been put over its mouth. So there are cases, I will give you a specific scientific example where when the hormone leptin was discovered, scientists thought they may have discovered the cure for obesity. And I use the term cure intentionally here because they said, holy moly, leptin is released in the body in direct proportion to the amount of fat tissue. So if we could just give sort of, if we could inject leptin into obese patients, we could trick the body into automatically burning fat because the brain would think you have way more fat than you actually do, and it would automatically spike your metabolism

to try to bring your body fat levels down. But what they found is that when they administered leptin to obese patients, it actually did nothing. And then they dug in deeper, and it wasn't because these patients suffered from a shortage of the hormone leptin. It was that the leptin receptors in their brain couldn't hear the leptin. So that's a concrete example of the receptors in your brain that are supposed to hear signals from your body fat tissue saying, upregulate my metabolism. I have enough stored energy. Just don't hear that message. So your brain says, well, yep, stay hungry. And that is really important to understand. So like, just like lots of science, anecdote, pause. Imagine

you have an individual who has a hundred pounds of surplus fat on their body. So an objectively dangerous level of fat on their body. Let's say a pound of fat has 3,500 calories in it. This individual has 350,000 pre-digested pre like they have 350,000 calories of pre-digested food in their body. Think about that for a second. And their brain says, you're hungry. How does, how does someone who is literally drowning in pre-digested food ever feel hungry? I mean that you just nailed it on the head because there's something going on the brain that's not getting that message to them. And for people listening that don't know what leptin is, it's a hormone that suppresses the appetite and burns fat. So obviously if they're not getting that message in the brain, then they're not going to be able to signal those

hormones to burn that excess fat. And it's crazy because just to go down the leptin rabbit hole for a second, what they actually found in these same studies was that they would find that certain obese patients had 25 times the amount of leptin circulating in their bloodstream as non-obese individuals. So their body is like, please, I am secreting as much leptin as I possibly can. But their brain is just like, I don't know what you're talking about. All this inflammation is blocking me. So it couldn't really do anything. Wow. I mean, that's wild. And if that's not proof that this is not a character flaw, This is not, you're not doing enough. I don't know what is, this is literally biologically what's happening in the body. And we need to provide people support

on how they get over this. Like, how do we bring down that inflammation and how do we get them back on the right track so that then they can lose that excess body weight and redeem their health back. And we, when we shed light on things like this neurological inflammation, right? It does it even like, you don't have to have a PhD in nutrition to say, well, so, so does do, does eating calories cause neurological inflammation? Well, no eating. You have to eat calories or you die. So the act of eating, like eating calories is not bad. So this idea of reduce the number of calories you're eating is also not necessarily good. What is causing the inflammation? And if the inflammation has nothing to do with the quantity of calories you're consuming, I mean, we start to say things like, well, so is diet Coke?

I mean, it has zero calories in it. But what if it causes neurological inflammation? And then we get into like even deeper stuff, which is like, let's say you do eat something which is objectively not good for you, like a donut. Could the shame you feel or the self-flagellation you perform from eating that donut actually cause more neurological inflammation than the donut itself? So could shame and self-hatred actually be more fattening than eating the foods which precipitate those emotions? I believe in some cases it can, yeah. Especially if you're constantly pushing out those, you know,

I don't know what you call it, but whatever whatever's released from the shame and all of that. I mean, it definitely plays a role. A hundred percent. And that fundamentally changes the way we approach and treat this medical condition. ago, there was a series of ads that were released around overweight, which were literally like, we just need to shame overweight people harder. If we could just shame them harder, things would get better. And that's how, if you, if you sit down and you talk, it's, I love Brene Brown and I love what she says about, it's hard to hate up close. And if you talk to someone who struggles with their weight, I mean, hand to God, it is, I mean, it is, I mean, it is like crazy what they go through.

It is every day. Forget about what they say to themselves, which is heartbreaking, but just, you know, going to the grocery store and having people take things out of your cart. You don't need this. Like, are you kidding me? And just, oh, like people throw it, getting, trying to go out for a walk and say, I don't go out for walks anymore because the last couple of times I went out for a walk, people like threw garbage out of their car at me. Because if, if society makes me feel bad enough, then I'll get my act together. Right. False. You know, and this is, this message is so important. And I feel like this is how we're going to get out of this issue because we're, we're at this very, very fragile moment in time dealing with obesity.

Because in one way, it feels as though we can't have the conversation at all. Because there's so much shame around it. There's this huge movement around the body positivity movement, which I think is amazing. I say this all the time. I really, truly believe that people should love their bodies wherever they are along their journey. But what I always say is that on top of that, we need to make sure that we're having the conversation

of loving your body along that journey while also encouraging healthier habits and getting more information, like what you're talking about right now on this podcast and how can we support them on this journey of figuring out their health so that they can lose weight in a healthy way. And it's so hard to have this conversation right now because people are so heated. They're so fed up from, you know, the ads and the diet culture. And I get it. I cannot even imagine how I would feel if I was overweight and

just being, you know, flooded by that every day. But how do we, how do we get to this point where we provide people support, um, while also not shaming them and giving them compassion? It is one of the most difficult, let's say lines to tow I have ever towed in my career. And the, the, the closest I've come and I'm definitely open to feedback is you, if, and this hits, it's close to home because of some family members experiences. If you, if you go to the doctor and you get a cancer diagnosis, right? There is no question that having cancer in your body is not, will, will not further your ability to live your optimal life. And I, I would argue that the most loving, the, the, the greatest way you could demonstrate a deep love for yourself is to say, I love myself so much that I am going to do everything that I can

and I'm going to enroll everyone I can in eradicating this disease from my body. It's really important to understand that obesity and diabetes are diseases. Now, obesity is not being a size 10. It's also, I mean, it has nothing to do with, we're talking obesity. We are talking having levels of excess adipose tissue on your body, which objectively compromise your experience of life. Objectively. Love yourself so much that you treat that disease. And effective treatment of that disease does not mean that you will have six pack abs or be a size four once that disease is eradicated. It just means you will have eradicated a disease that is objectively compromising your quality of life

because you love yourself so much that you know you deserve the highest quality of life possible. Wow. I mean, that's the most amazing answer I've ever heard to that. So seriously, I mean, that's an incredible message. It's true. You know, because I mean, like I said earlier, nourishing your body and taking care of your health, I believe is the most loving thing that you can possibly do for yourself. And you deserve it.

You know, you deserve to have that. Wow. So I asked this earlier, but we didn't get to it specifically. So diabetes too, I mean, I talk about this all the time, is reversible. What are the steps now that we know all of this is happening? What are the steps that we need to do in order to reverse it? Let's say someone's listening that needs help. We can definitely get more, I don't want to say helpful because what I'm going to say is not necessarily, but so what I'm going to say is actually the most helpful, but people do not perceive it as helpful. So if you have chronically, my father and sister are addictions counselors. All addictions have the same root and some addictions are just more acceptable in our

culture. For example, workaholism is an acceptable or in some cases praised addiction in our culture. Being addicted to exercise. There are people who are 100% addicted to exercise. And just really quick, let me define addiction. The best way I've ever heard defined was from my father. And he said that addiction is when, and I don't think he came up with this definition, but he's the one who told

me. So there is, I do something to feel better. And then there is, I must do something to avoid feeling like crap. So if you drink coffee because it just makes you feel like better, cool. You like coffee. You have a coffee habit. You have a coffee preference. If you have to drink coffee or you feel like crap, like you have to take in caffeine to just get to normal, then you have an addiction because your body cannot be at normal without the substance or the thing in question. So you're addicted to it. So that's like, if you exercise because it makes you feel good and your mind is clear, that's one thing. But if it's Christmas day and you're like, I cannot, I cannot enjoy myself unless I go for a two hour jog,

you are addicted to the dopamine that you're getting after that jog. So my point with all of this is that so we have opioid addiction. We have workaholism. Addiction levels and numbing levels are spiking in our culture. And they all have the same underlying cause. And that cause isn't a lack of nutrition information. And the cause isn't you don't go to Orange Theory. And the cause isn't that you don't go to orange theory. And the cause isn't that you haven't tried the keto diet. It's what is the underlying either trauma or relationship or

current emotional issue in your life that you are numbing with these behaviors. Because I promise you, if your spouse is beating you, we can talk about the benefits of blueberries and whether or not lectins are good or bad for you. It doesn't matter. And those are still important things and they're great. But because I like analogies, imagine you walked outside of your house and you looked over to your next door neighbor and they were in their driveway and their car was on fire, not little fire, like blazing on fire. And then you saw your neighbor look at their car, walk in their house, get like a window washer and start washing bird poop off of their windshield. And you said, you know, neighbor, your car's on fire. And they were like, hold on,

there's bird poop on the windshield. Like, why am I saying this? So is it good to not have bird poop on your car windshield? Yeah, 100%. It is definitely better to have a clean windshield. But your car's on fire. So is it good to eat blueberries? Yes. Like, is nutrition information good? My whole life revolves around it. But if your car's on fire, it doesn't matter.

Like, put the car out first. Address the childhood trauma first, instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours a year on gym memberships and diet programs, like take one 10th of that and, and, and treat and, and get some psychological help. See a social worker, right? Like there's a stigma. There's no stigma around eating more healthfully. There's no stigma around exercising. There sure is a stigma around getting psychological help.

Yeah. And that's step one. That is. I mean, yeah. Wow, that's interesting. Because, you know, I don't have to dive too much into this, but you're just making me realize a correlation that I'm not sure I've ever made. Uh, I, I go to therapy every week and I've really been addressing a lot of stuff that I've talked about on this podcast before. Um, things that I had happened to me as a kid and over the last few years,

my relationship to food has completely changed and I never even made that correlation until right now. That's really cool. And it's incredibly, like I just recently reached out and I mean, it's my insurance makes it almost impossible to actually get, like, it's not, it's very, this is not an easy thing. So if you wanna like talk about like the root cause of this whole thing,

it's that the true treatment for this, like you want to talk about food deserts? No, no, no. There is a psychological help desert. Truly. I mean, there, think about it. Like think about the, the, if you went to a group of friends and you like, you know, I'm making, I'm meditating more or I'm going to church or I'm exercising. But if you say like, I'm going to a psychiatrist or I'm going to a psychologist or I'm seeing a social worker, I sort of like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Everyone's like, are you okay? It's like, yeah, actually I'm doing really well because I'm addressing things that I need to address. Exactly. Or you know what? I'm not okay.

And that's okay. And neither are you. But at least I'm doing something about it. Yeah. Yeah. I love this so much. I mean, this has been part of my passion and my mission the last couple of years is just trying to normalize taking care of our mental health and doing whatever we need to do that, you know, whether that be go to therapy, get on meds, if that's what you want to do. Like,

I really think this is a very important part of the conversation because so many people have shame around it and there should be no shame around it. And I want to be very clear that it could be, I sometimes over-index on the psychological side of it because it's so under-indexed on. I do really want to stress that this is a virtuous cycle. So if you are eating non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, whole food fats, and low fructose fruits in that order, which is what we talk about in the film, it will, in and of itself itself help with the psychological. Like if you are on sugar highs all the time, it will have a negative impact on your psychological state. And so it's not either get psychological help or do nutrition or do exercise or sleep properly,

or it is important to make steps to better in each of those areas. And the reason I just highlight the psychological thing is most of us are at, frankly, if we had to give ourselves a grade, an F. Meaning just we've done nothing. And it's not our fault. We live in a culture that says, I mean, you need to learn to read. You need to learn to write. You need to be literate, but emotional literacy, let's just keep everyone illiterate. And you know what, maybe if we just, because it's okay to keep me illiterate because then they'll just buy stuff and they'll just keep buying stuff to fill that

void. And it's actually like, I don't want to get into the whole thing, but there is a reason that people don't want you to address your psychological issues. And it's because then they can just sell you more shit because then they'll say, well, you know, now you'll feel better if you can just buy more, be more and do more, then you'll feel better. And that's, of course, a lie. And anyway, but it's profitable. It's a profitable lie. It's a great point. And it's also in conjunction with what I say all the time

is that there is not a lot of money in super healthy people. There's a lot of money in keeping you just barely sick enough, you know, that you're addicted to the processed foods, you're on maybe a couple medications that could otherwise be completely regulated with diet and exercise. So there's huge components of that happening. And unfortunately, in this country, we have to work very hard to be healthy mentally and physically. I think there was a study done once where they, if, if, if just in the United States alone, females for like a week didn't purchase cosmetics or, you know, the myriad other things that society says that they have to have to be an acceptable woman, our economy would crash. Like it's literally the cornerstone of our economy is people not

believing they are enough as they are the way they wake up in the morning. Yeah. I mean, it's depressing. That's why we have to talk about this and fight back, you know, and give people real ways to do that. Also, another really important facet of this, there is a direct connection with our gut and our mental health because of the vagus nerve that goes directly from the gut to the brain. And we know this now to be true. I mean, we refer to the gut as the second brain. And so oftentimes, I mean, it's being looked at more, but it's been so overlooked when we talk about mental health. And like you were saying earlier, you know, the crashes and the mood swings and all that. I mean, there's a direct role in the foods

that we're consuming and our brain and our health. It's exactly right. And you can see it sometimes most conspicuously in children. And there have been studies done where they will take problematic children and replace their crap sugar diet with a non-crap sugar diet. And all of a sudden, these must-be-on-medication delinquent children don't act that way anymore. And who would have thought, you know, if you give a group of adults a bunch of cocaine and they act out, you would say, well, they're all on cocaine. But when you give a five-year-old... So when you... When my wife was pregnant, she had to get a glucose tolerance test. A glucose tolerance test is you essentially drink a solution that has glucose or sugar in it. And the doctor makes you sit in the office because drinking that much sugar could potentially cause a medical condition. I asked the doctor how much sugar is contained in that drink. And I was interested to find out that it is less than most Americans

consume at every single meal. So really think about that. I mean, we've got as a new father of three-year-old, one-year-old thinking more and more about kids. I just like the amount of children, like we sort of like, Oh, why are there so many hyperactive kids? And why are there so many kids on medication? Well, when kids are taking in a toxic level of stimulants and sugar is a stimulant every single day, they don't have a behavior problem. They have a stimulant problem. And then we, other bodies are going haywire. And then we treat that by prescribing them with more stimulants. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, it's very upsetting, uh, which is why we need to address the sugar. I mean, yeah, the, I would say the number one thing for anyone listening that's struggling with, you know, obesity, diabetes, anything, cut the sugar. I mean,

it's literally a drug. It's, it's going to be hard to do, but you have to. And there's a, I agree 100%. And there is a, there's a two pronged, I mean, there's a multi-pronged approach, but I like to talk about just two prongs of the whole sugar thing, because there's one like eliminating sugar. And that can be very, very challenging. There is a often not discussed secondary thing you can do, which is eating more vegetables, which is also self-evident and everyone agrees on, but nobody does, but it does two things. One is the less sugar you eat, the less sugar it takes to give you the same sensation, right? Just like alcohol, the less alcohol you drink, the easier it is to get a buzz. Just, you know, same thing with caffeine, blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah. But in some ways, bitter is the antidote to sweet. And we, as a culture, have lost the appreciation for the flavor of bitter. And it's a valid flavor, right? Any sort of person who likes wine or beer or any kind of alcohol can tell you about the good things about bitter. If you can train yourself to like vegetables, which you can, because a human being can condition to like any food if they eat it enough, by resensitizing your palate to bitter, you will also become more sensitive to the taste of sweet and you will not have to eat so much sugar to get the same quote unquote high or effect. So instead of potentially just cold turkey trying to stop sugar, if you could work to eat less sugar while simultaneously eating more vegetables, you will get results faster and easier. Interesting. I actually haven't really

heard that yet, which I think is a really great tip. I will also say, I mean, I was absolutely a sugar addict. There was not a day, I couldn't go a day without some sort of a bag of candy, which is horrifying to me now to think about. But what really helped me get over my sugar addiction was consuming more healthy fats. Because what I found too, is that when you, when you eat really good, healthy fats, you hit a level of satiety, which means that you're going to stay fuller for longer and you feel satisfied. And oftentimes what's happening when we have these sugar cravings outside of the addiction itself is that when we get to these places of really low blood sugar, our body is just looking for really quick

carbohydrates, like really quick sugar, you know, energy, glucose, in order to hit, to get that energy back. And if you consume more healthy fats, you're going to mitigate that whole process. Absolutely. Turning your, giving, restoring your metabolism's ability to use fat for fuel rather than just sugar for fuel is, is the ultimate key to, to all of this. And I do want to give one quick disclaimer because I think your, your, your, your listeners already know this, but in case someone new comes to listen, when we say eat more healthy fat, we don't mean take your existing diet that has a bunch of sugar in it and just add butter to your coffee. That's not what we're saying. But unfortunately, a lot of people from personal

experience are just like, well, you know, I'm great. I'm just going to eat more fat in addition to my, and it's, it's a conscious and deliberate substitution of healthy whole food based fats in place of processed starches and sugars. Yeah. That's a really great point. Yeah. So what, um, I guess, I mean, I feel like we kind of covered most of this, but I really, I just want, I want people to leave this episode kind of having a really good idea of what they can start doing. Another thing that I think is really important to point out is that just in general, higher quality food is going to give you better results. And that means foods in their whole real state, not processed. I don't know if you have more to add to that.

Oh, I mean, that's, that's the whole, so the movie better. I mean, that's the whole, in many ways, the point of the movie is to define what high quality foods are. Because if you ask 10 people, if a banana is healthy, you're, you know, one person will be like, well, it's vegan. So it's healthy. The other person will be like, well, it's not keto, so it's not healthy. The other person will be like, well, did you buy it at Whole Foods? Because that's the definition of healthy. So what does that even actually mean? And that's what we cover in the film, which is we can objectively define whether or not a food is going to help you or harm you. You know, is it satisfying? Does it fill you up and keep you full for a long time? What's its hormonal impact? What's its nutritional density and how likely is your body

to store it as fat? We like to break foods down into four categories, non-starchy vegetables, nutrient dense protein, whole food fats, and low fructose fruits. And basically if you can eat food in that order, like a volume, it's impossible to become diabetes. Your body cannot, the diabesity is incompatible with eating those foods. And it's also important to understand that going back to the burning car analogy, the pursuit of perfection is toxic. So if canned green beans is all that fits in your budget, canned green beans, all good. Like, great. Eat those canned green beans. Is it organic, farm-raised?

It's wonderful. But just getting the core, non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, whole food fats, and low fructose foods first is extremely, extremely important. Yeah. Yeah. I love that because we want to make this as accessible as possible for everyone. And that's how you do it. So many people that I have talked with essentially feel that, you know, nothing I ever do is good enough. So why even try? And what I want to say is the opposite of that. Anything that you do is good enough. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, and I mean, anything that people can start doing to help whatever situation they're in, you know, I think is, I mean, you know, we're just trying our best. I try to remind people all the time. I'm like, we're all just

trying our best and we're not going to be perfect at it. But I do believe that since there's so much confusion around this topic, that it's just important that we make it super clear for people and try to provide resources that can help them so that we can make this a little bit easier. Cause like I said earlier, it's just so, we make it so difficult in this country to eat healthy and actually be healthy. And here's the shameless plug. So everyone was, what's the catch? Here's the shameless plug. So that is exactly why we created the movie better. Uh, so there, if you go to better movie.com, like if, if you were to say to me what you kind of did, you know, what's the one thing that someone can do today to better their life,

no pun intended. I mean, please, we filmed this movie with four of the top doctors in the world at Harvard Medical School, on location at Harvard Medical School. We follow over 20 people's real life journeys. And, you know, we can't cover all of this in the show. And there's incredible nutritional and emotional components that we weave together in this film. And it is going to give you the concrete actions you need. And it's, you know, a couple bucks to rent on iTunes or Google. So it's not going to break the bank. So if I may ask folks to visit bettermovie.com, I'd certainly appreciate that. Yeah, it's a great film.

Everyone listening, I highly recommend go watch it. Watch it certainly appreciate that. Yeah, it's a great film. Everyone listening, I highly recommend go watch it. Watch it with your family. Send it to friends that you think need to hear it because it's a really important message. So I want to ask you one more question that I ask everyone before we go. What are your personal health non-negotiables? No matter how busy you are that day, what are the things that you make sure that you get in, in order to better your health and take care of yourself? First thing that comes to mind is sleep. I cannot, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, we had major medical problems and my family didn't sleep for 26 straight hours. But aside from that, getting seven hours of sleep per night just

has to happen or I can't function. And then also for me, it's going to sound pretty simple, but eating like I, I, I have to eat and I have to eat consistently. So I don't care, you know, if it's, if it's bringing in a natural protein bar or a bag of almonds, I have to make time to eat. And the other thing that's most as, as non-negotiable as those things is I do need time with my family. So my daughter and my wife, my daughters and my wife are as essential to nourish my soul as food is to nourish my body. And there's building evidence to show that those meaningful social and emotional connections in our life could be the greatest determinant of our health. So that's a non-negotiable for me as well. I love that so much. Well, for everyone listening,

where can they find you? You talked about Better Movie. Is there anything else that you want to, what you want to plug? Yeah, bettermovie.com definitely would be the number one hope for folks to share, just bettermovie.com. And then if you want to learn more about me as an individual, you can just go to jonathanbaylor, B-A-I-L-O-R.com. Awesome. Thank you so much. This was such a great episode. Thanks for listening to today's episode

of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week.