Realfoodology - 5: Balanced Eating in a Modern World with Bryna Gavin

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

On this weeks episode of The Realfoodology Podcast, I speak with Bryna Gavin, MS, CNS, about how to find balance while living in a modern world with so much processed food. We talk about disordered eating, misleading labeling, what motivates you in your eating decisions, how to focus on the way food makes you feel, social media in regards to diet culture, Instagram, getting nutritional info from IG and more! Find Bryna Gavin: @thesimpleleaf http://brynagavin.com/ Show Links https://vocal.media/journal/companies-that-control-the-food-industry https://www.growingagreenfamily.com/who-owns-organic-food-in-2018-and-does-it-even-matter/

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. They can happen at the same time, but for some reason, I feel like we kind of get pitted against one another. You're either like very anti-diet culture or you're diet culture, but I think there's somewhere in the middle that would probably be the best place to set up camp. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast.

I'm your host Courtney. I feel like I say this almost every week, but I'm really, really excited about this episode. I speak to a woman who is a CNS. And if you listen to my first episode ever, you know that that is what I'm going for eventually as well. The certified nutrition specialist, she has a master's in integrative human health like me. We actually both went to MUIH and I think we were there at the same time, which was really wild. We were recently connected through a girlfriend of mine because this is a conversation that has been on my mind a lot recently. Did you know that most

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eating the foods that we want to eat, eating those comfort foods, and, but also eating foods that are really nutritious, but not letting it become so extreme that it affects our mental health. So I invited Brina on to have this conversation so that hopefully maybe you could learn from my mistake. Honestly, I went really extreme when I was first learning about all of this. And how can you not when you learn of everything that's going on with our food industry, especially here in the United States, it's more of a problem. But that all being said, I do have a question today that was emailed to me that I'm going to, I'm not going to answer to, I'm not going to go into it too much just because basically this whole episode really addresses the

question, but it was so, it was such perfect timing for this to come in and it was perfect to have on the episode today. So this is a question from Allie and she says, how do you really get it through your client's minds that healthy isn't all or nothing, that there has to be balance and moderation, unless of course there's an allergen or disease. With COVID especially, I see it happening on both extreme sides, overdoing the healthy to be preventative and going completely the opposite way because of stress and new lifestyle. So we address this and it's a very long conversation in the podcast, but it really comes down to finding what works for you and then also allowing yourself to have grace and just being kind to yourself on those days that you, you know, quote unquote mess up.

I like to say that very lightly because I don't, I don't want to go to extremes and saying that there's, you know, good and bad foods. And I really don't like the binary, but unfortunately, because of our, because of the way that our food is now, we, we have to be very careful about what we put in our bodies, but also we need to make sure that we're still going out and enjoying life and having that cookie if you want that cookie. And it really comes down to the day in and the day out. The majority of your choices, if they're healthy and feel your body and provide nutrients, but then you have that cookie or you have that day where you don't really eat that healthy and you eat out with friends or, you know, you have a whole pizza to yourself. As long as those habits aren't happening every single day, it's about finding

that balance and that moderation. And when you have days like that, giving yourself grace and then waking up the next day and saying, okay, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to take better care of myself today. I'm going to make a really big salad with lots of leafy greens and veggies and lots of nutrients and just getting back on track. But again, to not fall into that guilt and shame and beating yourself up over it. Before we get to the episode, I wanted to answer another question that I got in through an email. Don't forget guys that you, if you have a question that you want me to answer on air, please, please email me at realfoodologypodcast at gmail.com. Cause I love to answer these questions on the pod. Today's

question comes from Jessica P in Austin, Texas. She writes, can anyone slap inorganic sticker on a product? Does the FDA have strict guidelines on what organic actually is? So it's actually not the FDA that governs our organic standard. It's actually the USDA. And the USDA has very strict guidelines that you must uphold in order to be called organic. There, for example, is a list of pesticides that can't be used in organic foods. They also can't contain genetically modified foods or GMOs. They have standards for livestock and poultry, for example, what they're fed. They can't be fed GMOs either. There's even

handling standards that handlers have to go by when they're dealing with organic food. In fact, fun fact, I used to work at Whole Foods. This was a long time ago. And we had a very specific set of rules that we had to go by when we were handling organic food. So it's definitely really regulated and falsely representing products that are as certified USDA organic violates the law and federal organic regulations, using fraudulent documents to market label or sell organic or sorry, to sell non-organic agricultural products as organic is punishable by fines of up to like $17,000 for each violation. I just Googled that. So the answer is no. Companies can't just slap the label organic on there. However, I'm sure that it happens. As with everything in life, there are people that try to cheat the system. But standard, for the most part though. I have an entire episode on organic, and we really dive deep into this because the regulating standards for organic is they're a little under heat right now from people who want more transparency in our food.

And there's a lot of companies that are fighting for an even higher transparency than just the USDA organic label. But I'm going to let you go back and listen to the episode so that you can really hear all of that, because it's more than I could get into in a, you know, and just in this little question. So go back and listen to that episode. It was a very, it was the second one that I did with Max Goldberg. And with that, let's get to the episode. So are we recording right now, Andre? Ooh, okay, cool. Well, I loved how we were just kind of having a conversation and I want to start out by saying that, yeah, so this has been kind of something that I've been thinking about a lot recently. And I really wanted to bring you on

because I feel like you find the words for it in ways that I can't even, like, I just can't find the words to explain it. That's kind of you to say. But I think it's so important. It all started, like I said, I've been thinking about this a lot and then was really inspired to do this episode because I had someone reach out to me on Instagram and I'm just going to read her question because this will be kind of like the guiding, this will guide us along on the podcast where I really wanted to start this conversation. So someone reached out and she said, I'm in nutrition school right now and I'm passionate about eating traditional real foods and less processed sugar foods. I was wondering if you'll ever touch on eating disorders. I have a couple of friends who have struggled with eating disorders and are very

anti-diet. It makes the stuff I'm studying and want to share really challenging because I don't want it to be triggering. Trying to find a place for it to all exist at the same time, if that makes sense. I just would be very curious if you would ever approach eating healthy in a way that's not triggering for folks with ED. And oh, and when they might feel like for their mental health, it's best to eat whatever they feel like in the moment. And this is like, this is such a hard conversation to have. First of all, before we address this, I want to introduce you. So please tell everyone your name and kind of your background. Yeah. So hi.

My name is Brina Gavin. I am a board-certified CNS, which I understand you're vaguely familiar with. Yes. We actually went to the same school almost during the same time, which is wild. I know, and we didn't know it same time, which is wild. I know. And we didn't know it until we decided to do this. So we both went through a clinical nutrition integrative health master's program, right? We both have our MS. Yes. And I think this is a really common thing for anybody who studied nutrition. I can only speak from my own experience,

but I believe, you know, anybody I know who goes to nutrition school, you get so excited because you learn about the biochem and how things absorb and assimilate in the body. And you start to, you know, preach about eating real food because nowadays, unfortunately, most of what's in the supermarkets isn't real food. And then you're fighting against being categorized as somebody who's trying to perpetuate diet culture, which is really tricky. Yeah. It's such a hard, it's a very fine line that we balance because I myself, and you just touched on this, but I can dive a little bit into my personal story. I very much swung to one side to a place where I would say is unhealthy. I don't talk about this a

lot on my Instagram because I don't really believe that. I mean, it's part of my story, but it's not. My mission is more focused on how can we find balance in eating real food and just educating on the importance of real food and how it affects our body. But I hit a place where it really affected my social life. It affected my mental health because while I was so focused on everything had to be organic and everything had to be real food. And while my diet was completely on point and I was probably the healthiest in my body physically had ever been, I was probably the most unhealthy in my mind, like mentally, because I found myself avoiding dinners because I didn't know if the food was organic or I would

eat before I went to dinner and just have drinks with people. And while I was eating and I didn't have like an actual like eating disorder per se. I mean, someone probably say that I was, that I had orthorexia. Um, I've never, that's, I've never like labeled myself as that, but yeah, like where do you find that balance of wanting to feed yourself whole real foods, nutritious foods, and not allow it to be to a place where it's extreme and, um, affects our mental health. I think that's a key point that you just said too, is that I was never diagnosed, but I could identify I had some of the behaviors of having a, Ooh, I almost just cursed. Sorry. Oh my God, you can. Okay. Kind of like a fucked up relationship with food, right? Which is why I'm really careful. My producer is like, yeah. Sorry,

I have a sailor's mouth. Love it. Here for it. Yeah. I'm really careful about the words I choose in practice. So my private practice has now kind of naturally, I have a little bit of a specialty in disordered eating. And I also work at an inpatient, um, an IOP, so an intensive outpatient center for individuals with eating disorders. But I typically use the term disordered eating because I think it's more inclusive for the people, you know, it's, it's a bigger umbrella because there are people who have a funky relationship with food, who find that they're triggered, who find that they have specific habits that they're restricting, that they're overeating, maybe even that they're binging and

purging, but they've never seen a doctor and they've never gotten the diagnosis. So I say disordered eating because I think that would include all of us at some point in our lives. I think everyone at some point, if not throughout their lives, has a little bit of disordered eating if you go through, especially when you go through a nutrition program. And I can just completely identify with what you said. I mean, when I started my practice and everybody said, you have to get on Instagram because it's important. And I realized that I was going to be my brand. And that kind of really creeped me out because I didn't want to be the face of health. But I just like, you know, I had my torch and I was like fresh out of school with all this knowledge. And I was the freaking health food vigilante. And I was so

petrified that somebody would catch me out at a bar with my friends having a beer. And I started to get so inside my head about it. And I'd be at a Christmas party eating, you know, the taco bar. And everybody would say, what do you do? And I'd say, oh, I'm a nutritionist, but don't look at what I'm doing right now because I'm enjoying a taco. And it just, I mean, yeah, it just gets inside your head too much. And we don't allow ourselves to be human. It's so messy to be human. And just because you paid money to have a, you know, a formal education so you learn about the body doesn't mean you have to eat, sleep, and breathe that. And it doesn't mean you need to lead by example in every single aspect because that's too much pressure. Way too much pressure. They're putting on ourselves too, which is devastating. And then we're, we're doing what we're leading by example

and showing people how to not be human and not have a dynamic relationship with food and not occasionally comfort eat and you know, all the things that are normal and natural. Man, you just touched on so many important things and I can relate, you know, having this Instagram following, I, I've become a lot more relaxed about it, but I remember I used to get messages all the time from people that would say, do you ever just eat any junk food? And I remember being like, yeah, of course, but, oh yeah, I guess I don't really show that, you know, but it's also because I really, I struggle to balance this line of really trying to feed and nourish my body with foods that I know that are going to,

to really like nourish me and allow me to live the highest quality of life that I want to live and have energy and feel good in my body. But then I also want to live my life and have fun with my friends. And where do you find that balance? You know? And I think, um, and this is again, why I wanted to have you on, because I feel like this is such an important, this is such an important component of all of this. And I wanted to have, I wanted this podcast episode to come out, um, as one of my first episodes, because there was one night, maybe two weeks ago where I could not sleep because all I kept thinking was, oh my God, okay, so I'm releasing all these podcasts about the importance of organic food and grass-fed meat and real food versus processed foods. But the last

thing in the world I want is for people to come from my podcast to then become so obsessive and controlling over their food that then maybe they're healthy in their bodies, but now they're mentally unwell because they're obsessing over every little thing. And so I just want to have this conversation and allow people to hopefully learn from my mistakes and not have to go down that path of that pendulum swinging so far, you know, one direction to To come back in course, correct? Yeah. So how do we do that? Like, how do we find balance in living in our modern world where unfortunately the majority of our food is processed food and it's, it unfortunately is like not really great for us and I wouldn't consider it to be food, but then again, like how do we

find that balance of nourishing and then also like nourishing our soul? Here's what I think is important to your point, or I guess I should say, here's what I really like about what you do. And this is what I try to do in my practice as well with all of my clients. I can't tell you what to do. All I can do is arm you with the education to make your own informed choices. And you are really big on education. And I love that. I went back and scrolled through your Instagram a little bit. But what's important is just that we give people the knowledge to make the choices for themselves. Right. And we unfortunately live in a time where people have a vested interest in the general public not being knowledgeable about their food. Yeah. And I hate to be all like, you know, big agriculture over here. But, I mean, it's true. There are people who make six figures who work in a lab, scientists,

specifically to make a formulation that's addictive for fast food. I mean, and they work really hard to keep a – I want to be delicate about the way that I say. But our labeling is misleading. Our access to food is egregious for people of lower socioeconomic status. And there are just so many things working against us in today's society with regards to knowing what's in our food and knowing what's good for our bodies. And also the nutrition science is always changing. I mean, you know, this in the fifties, we thought butter was bad and margarine

was everything. And we told people not to eat eggs. And now we flip that on its head and we know that, you know, certain plant-based fats can be really wonderful for us and cardioprotective. And we know that eggs actually are really good, healthy food if you eat the right quality. Yeah. So how do we trust the information we're given when 20, 50, 40 years later, it turns around on its head? Yeah, absolutely. And you brought up such a good point. I don't know if you were done and what you wanted to say, but girl, I'm like a train off the tracks. Go on. I will just keep talking forever. Well, you brought up a really good point. Cause this was

something that I wanted to talk about because there, because nutrition and everything that we learn about the body and food is ever evolving because, you know, science is always changing and we're constantly learning new things about the body and et cetera. How do we know and trust what is good and healthy? And I kind of, I know how I address this and navigate this. My whole philosophy is look, if it was once alive or it comes from the ground, generally speaking, it's probably pretty good for you. And the closer to nature, the better, the less additives, whether that be hormones, antibiotics, or like preservatives and stuff like that. And that's how I really navigate it.

But I also wanted to hear your thoughts on that. I try to just go with really easy rules. Like when I'm telling my clients, when we're working on basic food education, when they're in their first steps of recovery, or even if it's not someone coming from a disordered eating background, half of the foods in your shopping cart should not have labels on them. Not have labels meaning that's going to be fresh fruit, fresh produce, whole foods that grew from the ground with all their edible parts.

Because a lot of the education we do is, you know, if you have questions, I give text support between sessions. And I tell everyone, if you're shopping and you have a question about whether or not something's going to be good for you or an ingredient, screenshot it. Shoot me a text and I can get back to you, like, in real time. But the best advice you can give is something without a label is going to be the best thing. And it sounds so elementary, but we are so in the habit of grabbing convenience food. You know, that's that hyper processed, hyper palatable, anything that says low sugar, low fat, anything with a health claim on it like that, be wary of. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of

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way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste and it's low sugar and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants, astragalus, elderberry, and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about today or any of the Organifi products, go to Organifi.com slash Real Foodology and use code Real Foodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. You know, you just rolled your eyes and I love it.

Yes, because I couldn't agree more. I recently, oh my God, this makes me so mad. I got something sent to me recently and I don't want to call them out or name any names, but on the front it was, they had adaptogens. They were boasting about, it was low sugar and it was organic and all this stuff. I turn it around. This thing had polysorbate 80 and it also had, oh my God, I'm blanking on what it was called. It's like a de-icer. Oh, propylene glycol. Oh, fantastic. And this is what they use to de-ice planes. That's like the antifreeze, yeah.

Yes. I mean, oh my God, I almost threw that thing across the kitchen. I was so mad because the labels on the front can be so misleading and it's why you always need to read your ingredient lists. And that's what's really jacked up about it. That's where I get like my most infuriated is you're, I mean, just willfully taking advantage of people who are just trying their best. I have so many people that come through my doors and they say, well, I drink, you know, the, the light cranberry juice, or I have, you know, the fat free yogurt, and then you flip it around and it's got 38 grams of sugar. And Splenda. Yeah. People are well-meaning just trying to do their best

and the companies who make the food willfully mislead people and it's just shitty. So I try to just say, go back to basics and also just, I mean, you have to be delicate, but normalize comfort eating too is completely okay. Just within reason. Yeah. And why don't, let's talk about that. Because I personally in my own life find, again, as I keep saying that I'm teetering this line of balance with that, where for the most part, if I find myself wanting some sort of comfort food, I don't deny myself of that. Like, let's say that, I mean, perfect example. I wanted pizza the other night with friends and we made sure that we ordered from what I know to be like a

healthier pizza place. I got gluten-free dough because personally I have to eat gluten-free. So when I do want these comfort foods, either I buy organic stuff at the market and I make it at home from scratch, or I'll order from places that I know to be healthier. However, that all being said, I also find myself in situations where other friends of mine don't care as much as I do. And, you know, or there's a situation where I get invited somewhere and they've already invited, or they've already ordered the food and whatever. And back in the day that would have sent me spiraling and I either would have just not eaten and I would have eaten when I got home or I would have like, you know, had a bite or had a slice and then just felt so guilty and shameful about it the rest of the night. And it's again,

why I wanted to have this episode so that hopefully people could learn from my mistakes, because it's also not healthy to live in that place of guilt and shame and beating yourself self up over it. So yeah, I just wanted to have a conversation about like finding that balance in eating those comfort foods. But also if you eat something that's quote unquote bad, like allow yourself that, enjoy it and then move on with your day. A hundred percent. I think a really important point that I want to stress here that I found kind of is the most important starter for having this conversation with anyone is that it is so, so individualistic. You have to meet someone where they're at. So for example, for you, going to a party and being able to know beforehand what they're ordering and

make your special request might be your ideal balance, making sure that you're taking care of yourself. In the ED community, you know, when I started working with individuals with eating disorders, I had to throw everything I knew about nutrition out the window, literally out the freaking window, because I would see someone who, you know, was in three weeks of recovery for anorexia and all they would eat that day was one slice of New York cheesecake. And that was it. And that would be a freaking win for us. I mean, that's amazing. If that's all you got in your body, I'm okay with it. That's amazing. Let's build on it. Let's go from there. So it was really challenging for me to kind of just have to take everything I know and throw it out the window and just meet that

person where they're at. If that's all they could do that day, amazing. So it's just, it really depends on the individual, where they are, and so many other factors, not just like genetically and biologically, but also culturally, economically. Where are they from? What's their relationship to food? What's their, you know, is food seen as a celebration? What was their upbringing like around food? Was there a lot of stress and tension around the dinner table as a kid? All of these things influence our relationship with food. But I think everyone kind of has their experiences. And I have two where, like you said, the pendulum swings back and forth. I'll go into a phase where I'm feeling really hypervigilant because I really want to prioritize my physical health. And then I'll too, where like you said, the pendulum swings back and forth. I'll go into a phase where I'm feeling really hypervigilant because I really want to prioritize my physical health. And then

I'll go, you know, through phases where I have a really busy week and if takeout's all I can do, that's all I can do. But the important part is being gentle with yourself and just being able to make sure that you can enjoy it because there's nothing worse than eating and not enjoying it and then punishing yourself for it afterwards. So be educated. You know, make informed decisions about what you put in your body. And a lot of what we do, you know, with the clients in recovery is focus on body-informed food decisions. So not only how's this going to taste, but how's this going to make you feel?

Being familiar. Getting used to how you feel in your body and going, okay, well, let's think about this. and let's shoot forward to two hours. How's this going to make you feel? You're going to have more energy. You're going to have to take a nap. What is this going to be like in your body? And kind of working on that relationship. Cause a lot of times when we're hyper-focused on what we eat, in a way we kind of tune out what our body actually wants. Cause we're just kind of little robotic health machines. There's a sweet spot in there. It's just it's very delicate. Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad that you touched on that because I was actually making some connections in my own experience as you were talking about that. And that is part of what really helped me

on my journey to find that balance, because you need to find what motivates you to want to stay healthy or what motivates you in your eating decisions. Because I, you know, when I was in college and I had gained like 20 pounds from drinking a lot of beer and eating more Taco Bell than I would like to admit. Yes, there was a time that I ate Taco Bell. not really, not, not anymore. Um, but you know, I, I wasn't at the time making the connection of how I was feeling in my body. It wasn't until I changed my eating habits. And then now, I mean, I can tell you almost instantly after I eat something, if I'm like, Ooh, that didn't settle well with me, or there are a lot of foods that I've noticed that I didn't, I wasn't consciously avoiding them, but I was avoiding them because I, I look back now

and I'm like, Oh, actually I haven't really been wanting that food lately. Cause it just didn't make me feel good, you know, or it made me lose energy. Or I, like you said, I wanted to take a nap afterwards. And it's all about learning. I found for me personally is doing a little bit of digging, doing the research into what foods are healthiest for, for humans in general, and then applying that to myself. And then it's almost like a little bit of a science experiment on yourself, you know, like start taking notes, like write down, you know, I ate this earlier and it didn't make me feel that great. And then you can start making those connections in yourself and really help navigate your own eating patterns. Because at the end of the day, you're the only person that's going to be able to figure that out for yourself.

That is the, one of the foundational principles of intuitive eating, which is a philosophy that I really, really love. Um, if you've ever heard of it, but it's give yourself unconditional permission to eat. You have to start there. Yes. And then it's all information. Like, and this is something I really press in my practice too. You're never going to fail. Nothing you ever do is wrong. It's all information because even if you, you know, have something that makes you feel really crummy and you're regretful about it, well then mental note, next time we're not going to go down that path. Like it's everything you do. It's all a process and it's very individualistic. We say this all the time, but like, I hate the word expert,

but I could say I'm the expert on nutrition. You're the only expert on you. You live in your body 24 hours a day. No one else can say how something is going to make you feel what your motivators are, how you're feeling in your body, what your energy levels are. Like it's got to be up to you. And it doesn't matter who or what expert is telling you that X, Y, and Z is the healthiest for you. If it doesn't feel good in your body, then it's not good for you personally. That's a really important thing to remember. Which is why diets get so tricky. Everyone's like, you know, try keto, try low carb, try vegan. But the way that our bodies respond to things are so different. Nothing should ever, in my opinion, nothing you should ever pursue when it comes to what you put

in your body should be cookie cutter. Get rid of the black and white, throw it all out, get rid of the labels. Like it's easy to just keep it simple and just know what you like and what you don't and what serves you and what doesn't. Cause we get really wrapped up in those labels too. And that can get dangerous. Yeah. So speaking of labels, how would someone, let's say someone that is either recovering for, from ED or just trying to avoid going down that path, how would we help someone navigate the fine line of, I don't like to say that there are quote unquote good and bad foods, but when we're talking from a nutrition standpoint, when we're saying, you know, real food versus processed foods, how would you help someone that came to you looking for, for help in

that, in trying to navigate eating what's good for them, but also not allowing it to become an eating disorder? Yeah. Um, okay. So if you're in eating disorder recovery, the first thing I'm going to say is seek professional help. It's never something you should try to navigate alone because it's convoluted and complex. And for many, it can be dangerous to just go from what you see on the internet. So I would say absolutely seek out professional support with regards to nutrition and also therapy is such an important component. I mean, for everyone, I think therapy should be free and everyone on earth should be in therapy, but definitely if you're experiencing, you know,

a challenging relationship with food or your body or your self-image or self-acceptance, absolutely I would recommend both of those things. Now here's where it gets tricky with like social media specifically. And I know we talked about this a little bit in the beginning, but it's like it almost feels like there's only two camps. You are either, you know, trying to give out good information about the body or diet culture-y, the whole fitspo thing, and only thin fit people are the only people that deserve to live. And then you have on the opposite side, the anti-diet culture, which can, which I think has a really amazing place. But then some people in that camp can get really extreme too. Like I had said, there's, there's a woman who I really love and admire. And she posted something a few weeks back saying processed food isn't bad. Quinoa is processed food. And I was like, but that's misleading. You know, when we say processed food, we mean stuff that's been

ripped apart and add chemicals added and been hyper-processed and, and chemically designed to be addictive. Or it makes me so mad. Those people who try to justify pesticides and other clearly toxic chemicals in our foods by just saying all food is made up of chemicals, all living matter, including people, animals, plants. There's clearly a difference between the chemical makeup of a strawberry or an actual toxic chemical like a pesticide that we spray on our food. It's very misleading. Yeah. So I was like, technically, I like what you're doing. You know know we're trying to break the mold and get people out of their restrictive eating patterns but also you're kind of too far on the

other end and that's misleading too but I think we have to get to a point where we normalize some sort of sweet spot like I picture a Venn diagram there's something in the middle where you can give real information about the body and also say diet culture is crap and you could throw it out the window. You're allowed to be the only one with agency over your body. You're allowed to stop following accounts that make you feel crummy, that force you to compare your body against other people's. You're allowed to normalize natural bodies and also want to take care of the one you have. Absolutely. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. They can happen at the same time. But for some reason,

I feel like we kind of get pitted against one another. You're either like very anti-diet culture or you're diet culture. But I think there's somewhere in the middle that was probably the best place to set up camp. Oh my God. I could not agree more. We just need to find that sweet spot of, like you said, where we're anti-diet and we're not pushing these extremes in our diets, but also where we can, um, celebrate taking care of your health. Because ultimately at the end of the day, we all want to be on this planet for as long as we can, or I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of us, you know, we want to be healthy and we want our families to be healthy. And, uh, we need to find that sweet spot of where we're mentally healthy, but also taking care of our nutrition and taking care of

the body because it's, we only have one. And, and I think that what you touched on is really important because yes, healthy, um, doesn't look like one size, but it does. There's a lot of markers and lab work and stuff like that, that we need to look at. And a lot of that is determined by the food that you eat. And that's really, I like that you said healthy doesn't come in one size. Because again, it comes back to the individual. I think all we can do is do the best you can with what you have with where you're at. And I cannot stress this enough that your body that you're in right now, my body that I'm in right now, is not going to be the same as my body six months from now,

five years from now if I'm lucky enough to have it, 20 years from now if I'm lucky enough to have it, you know. Absolutely. Your body right now is ever-changing. And all you can do is respect it, hopefully. It would be, I hope I'm not so bold to say I love it. Everyone deserves to love the body they're in. And, you know, take care of it as best you can. But we can't be motivated to make behavior change and lifestyle change and diet change if we don't first respect the body we're in. And that's why I

think, you know, there's a big movement right now going around on social media that, that everyone has mixed opinions on. But at the end of the day, I think it's important to say you have to respect the body you're in, uh, in order to want to take care of it. Absolutely. And I always say this, that choosing foods that have your health in mind is one of the biggest acts of self-care that you can do. Because we do know that there is a connection between the foods that we put in our body and modern day diseases that we're seeing. And something as simple as your energy day in and day out, little things like that, and choosing healthier foods that are going to nourish your body and allow it to work at its optimal levels is one of the biggest acts of self-care that you can do. That's one of my biggest motivators for specifically when I have

gals come in my practice, if they're, you know, nearing middle age-ish, one of the biggest motivators isn't image at all. You know, It's, I say, how's your libido? How's your sex drive? Nine out of ten times the women who come to see me who are tired and stressed out and exhausted, their sex drives, I mean, it's plummeted. And I'm like, let's talk about what we can do with stress management, with changing some of the food you take in, with changing lifestyle a little bit. The motivator doesn't have to be, you know, your optics. It doesn't have to be the look of your body. It's how you feel. It's getting a little bit of sex drive back. It's being able to manage your stress levels, being able to sleep and have like good sleep hygiene. I mean, clearer skin and balanced hormones, that's all a perk. But

a lot of the times people just want to feel better. Cognitive function is another big one. Getting rid of brain fog, being able to focus, having memory consolidation, retention. These things that we don't think about, but when you start changing your life, you're like, dang, I feel so much better. Right? Yeah. And there are oftentimes things that we don't even realize are going on until we start changing our diets and we see the difference between how we felt and now how we feel better.

And you look back and you're like, wow, I feel so much better. And I have my sex drive back. I mean, talk about self-care, having a sex drive, like, you know, like that's a huge component of it. And many times people don't even make the connection between what they're putting in their body and their libido. Yeah, absolutely. Don't get me started on sex drive. I'll go forever. No, but also I think that's something I hear about supplements a lot too. If I recommend supplements and they'll say, well, I don't know if I feel a difference. I'm like, I get that. Sometimes it's a slow burn. And a lot of times if I do a micronutrient evaluation, so I do a blood draw to see the intracellular status of everyone's micronutrients, your vitamins, your minerals.

It's like vitamins and minerals together. Vitamina, vitamin. And then, you know, you have a subclinical deficiency in one, two, three things. So we recommend some supplements to course correct that. You might not feel a difference, but every single time I get an email that says, hey, I ran out of the things that you scripted six weeks ago and I'm feeling crummy again. Can you send me a new prescription? It's always so interesting to me that when we start it, we don't really notice. It's when we stop and we start feeling like we did previously. I just think that's so fascinating. It's a pattern I've seen time and time again, even with myself, honestly. Yeah, I have too. And that is so interesting.

Like we said, you sometimes need something to compare to in order to really see the difference. Yeah. What was your baseline? If it's your status quo and you've been living this way for a few years, your baseline might feel normal. And then when you start having, say, a little more energy or a little more libido, it's not until you look back that you go, what was I doing before? Exactly. And I think you touched on such an important aspect of all of this is that it shouldn't be a focus on our bodies. It should be a focus on how we feel in them. It's everything. And it's really, for me personally, that's where I have found the motivation and the drive to eat healthier. And as I've gone along this journey too, I've feel, or I've noticed that the healthier I eat,

my palate changes. I'm not eating all those processed foods that are designed to be addictive, addictive, which is also something else I want to touch on. Um, but it, you notice, and it can be a small, it can be very small changes until one day you look back and all of a sudden you're like, oh, wow. I mean, I mentioned earlier, I used to eat Taco Bell and I was drinking beer all the time and I wasn't feeling great. And at the time I didn't know that I wasn't feeling great, but then once I started to change my diet and then I looked back on it, I was like, Oh wow, I really was not feeling good at all. But I didn't know at the time that I was feeling so crappy. Sure. That's your normal at the time. That was my baseline. That's why in, I mean, assessments are so important, but in practice, I always, my initial intake paperwork has like three assessments on it. And depending on the

individual and what they're coming in for, but I always have them answer, is this true? Often, sometimes, mostly never. And it sounds so silly, but at the three month mark or at the six months mark, we'll always go back and reassess because it's so important for you to see those tangible markers. Because day by day, you might notice a difference or you might not notice a difference. But when you come back and compare your answers to what they were three months ago, after you've been putting in the work and working really hard to change your relationship with food and your body, to just see the evidence right in front of you of a positive change. I mean, that in and of itself sometimes is a really good motivator. So for everyone at home, self-assess,

write down how you're feeling before you make big changes and embark on, you know, changing your lifestyle or diet, and then go back and read it and compare and see, you know, how you're doing day to day. Cause it, it does make a big difference. Yeah. Oh, that's so important. One of my girlfriends actually was the one that got me onto that. She, she keeps notes in her phone. She'll take notes every time she's not feeling that great or when she's noticing that she's feeling really well, she'll put little notes in her phone and then periodically she goes back and she reads everything and really it, it motivated me to start doing that. And I didn't realize until I started doing that, that yeah, I was able to start making those connections, right? Whereas before I wasn't really noticing the big changes that I was feeling, whether it

was, I was feeling better or worse. And then that's when you can start connecting it to your food or supplements that you're taking. Anytime you take a new supplement, add in one at a time and take notes as you're doing it so that you can notice whether or not there's a good impact or a bad impact. And then you can stop taking that supplement if it doesn't feel good. Always add them one at a time or else you're never going to know what's working. Exactly. And then just to your point on, you know,

taking notes, I think for many people that could also just be a good exercise. I mean, don't get crazy with it. I don't want to tell everyone to like get hypervigilant about taking notes for everything. But it's also just a good practice to get in tune with your body. Absolutely. Because so many people, I mean, we live in a world where everything is just external. We're on our phones and we're at work and we're engaging in relationships. But for the average person who eats the standard American diet, I think there was research that came in last year from Harvard Medical School and they were saying an average of like three minutes a day

that the average American reflects on anything having to do with their body. I've seen people come into my practice with gout so bad that they couldn't walk. And I'm just mystified because I think, how are you in pain every single day? And they're like, well, I just got to get on with my life. And I'm floored thinking, my goodness, this person is suffering. And they just think, oh, it's just what happens with your body when you age. Oh, God. And that part of the, we could say the standard medical care system is so infuriating because we just, as we start to get older, we just start to say, oh, well, that's just a product of you aging or, oh yeah, this just happens over time.

And the majority of the time, that's just simply not true. Of course, as we get older, we age and certain things stop functioning as well as they once did. But also something as simple as taking some blood and the lab work to see like, Oh, actually your vitamin D is so low right now. Or, you know, your vitamin B12 is so low. Of course you're fatigued right now, or maybe you have some sort of autoimmune thing going on and we can address that with food and supplements. And there's always, this is why I'm such a proponent for lab work and looking at the labs because that really tells you what's going on. And then we can address it from there. There's no shooting in the dark when it comes to labs, which just makes it easy. And I,

for most of my new clients, I encourage at least a micronutrient eval simply for the fact that, hi helicopter, simply for the fact that, you know, we can, we can make our best educated guess, but they talk it, they call it the practice of medicine. And I always say with nutrition, it's, it's very similar. I mean, we have to do a fair amount of guesswork to figure out what's going on for underlining conditions with kind of vague symptoms. And sometimes it might take two, three tries for us to figure out what's going on with the lab work. You're not shooting in the dark, which means I get answers faster and you start to feel better faster. So it's just worth it. Oh, yeah.

Anyone listening, if you're able to do this, go get your yearly lab. I get my blood drawn every six months just to kind of see where everything is. Now, have you retested since you've taken it the first time? Actually, so I'm doing that this week. They just sent me one and I'm going to do a retest to see where everything is. Oh, I'd be really curious to see. Yeah. But I love it because everything, and this is part of also my problem with the conventional

medical system is that we just apply one size fits all, one pill fits all. And we're so all bio-individualized that we need it to be specific to what's going on in your body, specific what's going on in my body, because my needs are going to be different than yours. It also just sounds overwhelming. Like that's overwhelm, expecting somebody to keep up with all the information. I mean, you know, you and I both went to school for two, three years to learn about this, to expect the average person who doesn't work in this field to understand what the body requires and how you burn it at different rates is just too much. Absolutely.

We need an easier way to keep people informed about their bodies. We really do. And, you know, we touched on this a little bit earlier, but I want to kind of circle back because I think this is such an important part of this whole conversation is just how misleading and it is in with the food industry and with our standard medical care, the labels and all the dis, you know, misinformation. I mean, someone can Google are eggs healthy for you and they're going to get like 15 different answers. Like, yeah, it's good, but, or no, they're bad for you. And, you know, and so how I just want to have a conversation about how we can navigate that and make it a little bit easier for people and just talk about how.

So I get so many people that come at me on Instagram when I have these kinds of conversations, you know, and they're mad at me when I talk about organic food or I talk about certain things being healthy for you than others. And I want to redirect that anger to honestly, to our governing bodies, because we don't have a government that's really protecting us from these kinds of foods and the antibiotics and the hormones and the pesticides and everything that are getting into our food system, because ultimately that's what it comes down to. And it's why it's not affordable for everyone as well. That's a huge part of this conversation. And I'm very well aware of it. I know, um, I'm privileged that I can afford organic food and not everyone can, but that shouldn't be a privilege. That should be a basic right for everyone. And this is something that, Oh God, I don't even know how to change it, but I'm just trying to have conversations about it because that's where the change starts.

Yeah. I was going to bring this up, and then you just beautifully segued right into it. So let's not be disillusioned to think that it's not being in a position of privilege to be able to talk about things like pesticides. Absolutely. decides because the fact of the matter is that if you grew up in a family, you know, stats show that if you grew up in a family that was low income in an inner city, then you're statistically likely to have, you know, six more conditions than the average person or something to that extent, something really terrifying. And, you know, you're likely going to have health complications and obesity just because of the conditions in which you grew up, which is so unfair. But I think this is where an important conversation about fault and responsibility comes in.

And just to circle back to ED, this is something we do a lot. It is not your fault ever that you were brought up in a specific environment or that your relationship to food was formed from childhood the way that it was. But it is your responsibility to correct that now if it's something that matters to you and if it's affecting your quality of life. And it's important for us to empower people to seek out education, but the right education. And I've, you know, I've written a blog about this and mentioned it on my website, and I know I'm wary about disparaging anyone specifically, but just do not get your nutrition information from social media. Or if you do, please, please, please look into that individual's credentials with regards to do they have a formal education?

Not saying that you can't be self-taught. I know some amazingly brilliant people who are self-taught, but they're very rare, very, very, very rare. And then there are awesome organizations like PubMed that have literal journals, medical journals, that are peer-reviewed and well-cited for you to read information on your own. Now, I know it can get a little mucky and you might not want to always read studies, but there are aggregates like Healthline, for example, that take a bunch of studies and put them all

together and then kind of boil it down into like one easy to digest, pun intended, kind of little summary of are eggs good for you, for example. But make sure that you're just, you're looking into the research. And also a really important aspect of that is who's writing it, where are you getting the information from? Because every single time I see a darn commercial about, oh, this popsicle has high fructose corn syrup. Well, you know, that's not bad for you. Paid by corn farmers of the USA or something like that. Oh yeah, it literally says it at the end of those ads. Yeah. So just be aware of who's giving you the information and if they have a vested interest in, you know, making up your mind one way or the other, because unfortunately we just,

as consumers, we have to think critically all the time. We need our critical thinking caps on who's selling me this, what is their benefit when they're selling it to me? And then what do I think about this? And do I think it would be right for me? I mean, it's all up to us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you touched on so many different, different things. Yes.

I love it. Sorry, I'm all over the place. No, no, no, no, no. I love it so much. You're right. We really have to be diligent. Unfortunately, it's just the reality of today's world. We have to be really diligent.

We have to do the digging on our own. And like you said, really find out where that information is coming from, because unfortunately at the end of the day, guys, food is a business. We have to remember that now food is a business. Yes, we need it to survive, but it's also the majority of our food, at least the, all the processed food. Well, actually probably even like our produce is owned by, I don't know the exact number, so I don't want to say, but you know, like five to seven companies own everything. And so you really have to make sure that, that you just, yeah, that you know, who's paying for this, who has a vested interest in this certain information coming

out. And I love that you touched on to making sure that you know where you're getting your information from is really, really important. I mean, I, I have obviously a following on, on Instagram and I share a lot of the things that I learned and I'm by no means claiming to be an expert. I'm saying even question what I say, because sometimes I've gotten things wrong before, you know? Um, but I did go to school and I studied this. I've studied this for the last 10 years of my life. So make sure that the information that you're getting are from people that you know, have really studied this and know what they're talking about and really have your, your best interests in mind. I mean, that's kind of hard to tell like from social media, but perfect example.

Oh, okay. So we, my producer just looked it up. So it's, oh, so our entire, basically our entire food supply is owned by 10 different companies. Nestle, Coca-Cola, I won't name all of them, but Uniliver or however you say that Uniliver. I don't even know how to say that. Kellogg's, Quaker. I think General Mills is a big one too. PepsiCo. Oh, it's really crazy. You guys should Google this. It's, it's actually insane. Really disheartening when you look at it, like we're looking at a little visual map right now and it's kind of heartbreaking. It's really, yeah, it is heartbreaking because you know, at the end of the day, they care. The majority, I don't want to put a blanket statement over this

because this is a really extreme statement, but the majority of these companies are more concerned about their bottom dollar. They're not concerned about your individual health. They're not concerned about how this food is going to provide nutritious nutrients for your body. Courtney, I will make a blanket statement. None of those companies are interested in our well-being or health. They are concerned about their bottom line. You're right. You're right. I just didn't want to make a blanket statement because I do know that there are companies out there that are really, really fighting hard for it right now, you know, and they're fighting for organic labeling and transparency in our food. So I want to make sure that those companies also

get recognized for the hard work that they're doing. But again, like I want to remind everyone listening that the anger should be directed towards our governing bodies and the policies in place that are not protecting us from allowing these kind of things in our food. You know, the processed foods and allowing us to completely degrade food of all of its nutrients, strip it of everything, then chemically deodorize it and add in, you know, all the preservatives. It's so sexy when you say it like that. Thank you. Chemically deodorize it and add in, you know, all the preservatives. It's so sexy when you say it like that. Thank you. Chemically deodorize. It's so bad. That's what they do with canola oil.

You know that canola oil in the factories smells so bad because it's so, I don't want to say the word toxic. It's so, I can't think of the word, but essentially it smells so bad that they have to chemically deodorize it before they bottle it. That's horrid. It's disgusting. This is where it gets tricky for me because I want to have a conversation with you about nutrition and what's right for our bodies.

But then when we talk about eating disorders and disordered eating, it's like you have to almost put all this on its head. So for the first three years of my practice, one of the first things I set out the gate, a good quality olive oil, a good quality avocado oil. Toss your veggie oils out. They're hydrogenated. They're chemically created. Your body doesn't know how to identify them. It's a Franken food. It was created in a lab. Get rid of it. And now that I work, you know, in the ED realm, if someone has canola oil on their dressing, I'm like, that's good. It's fine.

Get it in your body and we'll work on the details later. So it's kind of, I feel like I'm at odds with myself having this conversation because I just want to say there's going to be caveats for everything. Yes. And in nutrition there are. I mean, every single time I make a post on Instagram, I say, you guys should try this unless you have diabetes and it's not, then it's not, then it's not indicated for you. Or this might be wonderful. You know, raw diets can be, or trying to consume more raw foods can be really wonderful. Well, unless you have any of the umbrella IBD or IBS conditions, because then it can be really damaging. So there's caveats for everything. And again, it goes down to the individual, but that's what it all comes back to

education, I guess. That's going to be our through line today. That is our through line. All you can do is educate yourself to know what's best for you. Exactly. And be gentle and just work with what you have with where you're at. Yes. Yes. Be kind to yourself and don't beat yourself up. I mean, I'm so glad that you touched on that as well, because look, I'm sitting here saying that I don't buy canola oil. I don't think that it's super good for our bodies, but does that mean that I literally never eat it? No, I picked up something in my fridge the other day that had it and I didn't throw it away. I finished it. Oh, because you're human and you want to live your life. Oh my goodness. And that's why I really wanted to bring you on today to have this conversation

because it's not black and white. And it really is tricky when we are dealing with things like eating disorders. And again, like you said, it just comes back to education and remembering that we are all so individualized and that you are ultimately the only person that's going to be able to figure out what's best for your body. You can work with an expert and I really encourage you to do that. But at the end of the day, you have to figure out what works best for you. We are so individual. And that's, I mean, that's it. Done. Slate it. We're done. Put it to press. Yes. That's it. That's the message. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I covered everything I wanted to talk about. I am so glad that you came on today. I don't know if there's anything

else that you wanted to touch on. I think, what was the original question that she had asked? How do we keep? I'm just going to read the majority of it. I have a couple of friends who have struggled with eating disorders and are very anti-diet. It makes the stuff I'm studying and want to share really challenging because I don't want to be triggering. I'm trying to find a place for it all to exist at the same time. Yes. Okay.

And I would be curious if you would ever approach eating healthy in a way that's not triggering for folks with ED where they feel, where they might feel like their mental health, it's best to eat or for their mental health. It's best to eat whatever they feel like in the moment. Okay. So what I would say to you, friend is from two nutritionists to a future nutritionist. Um, I think she said specifically, I'm trying to find a place where these can exist at the same time where actual education about what's good for the body and being flexible and gentle and being able to exist in the world we live in and not become a creepy food robot. Yes.

And we've all acknowledged that that place doesn't really exist right now, unfortunately. So I think it's our duty to make it. Yeah. You know, I think it's going to be hard work. Listen to me, I'm so self-righteous. What a trailblazer we are.

No, but I think it's going to be work. You are though. But we have to dorighteous. What a trailblazer we are. No, but I think, I think it's going to be work, but we have to do that. And I think it's something you're doing with your Instagram presence. And it's something that I try to champion, you know, on my one-on-one with clients is you're doing it every day in your practice. Just here's the information. This is to the best of my knowledge. I've worked hard to gain all this knowledge. Here's the info. And be gentle with yourself. Yeah. And I think that's, I mean, really all we can do. And for the people who, you know, have comments to you, like you had mentioned on social media, people who get upset, everyone's narrative is true. Everyone's experience is true to them. Let's be delicate

with hearing people out. Let's also be nicer on social media, guys, because there is no need for all the vitriol and all the coming at yous and all the kind of gotcha comments that I've been seeing lately, which is why I'm just wary to go on social media anyway. I think it can be a great place for community, but it can also be really, really, really damaging because the anonymity and people just feel, I don't know, people feel very entitled to making opinions about things that perhaps maybe would just be best if you just focus on taking care of yourself. But if you see someone, so for example, if you talk to a nutritionist or you follow an

account and they are giving you information that's seemingly conflicting, like they say, apples are very good for you. You shouldn't eat too much pizza. And then the next day they're eating pizza. You don't have to go, wait, I thought you said apples were only good for you. You could just let them be a person. Just let them live. And you know, everybody can be entitled to make their own opinions about their body. But to circle back to her question, yeah, I mean, if there isn't a space right now where everything can exist, where you can be, you know, a messy person and someone who wants to do right by their body, then maybe it's our job to start championing for that in between a little more. Yeah, we need to get back to that sweet spot, like you said.

And one more thing that you were talking about, the social media thing, is remember, too, a lot of these comments that I'm seeing where people are attacking everyone else is everyone's making it about themselves. And we need to remember that it's not all about like, just because this is someone's story doesn't take away from your own story. And we really need to remember that because when I'm saying, for example, that, you know, real food is really good for you and let's try to eat less processed foods. But if you're coming from a place of, well, I have this, that, and this and that or whatever, it's like, okay, well, that's your own personal story and journey. And I'm by no means discounting your own journey.

Or for example, we were talking about the affordability earlier. Of course, that is a huge problem that we need to address in this country. And we're not going to fix it overnight. And just because I'm saying this one thing doesn't mean that I'm completely discounting everything else. And that's what we need to remember when it comes to social media. Yeah. It's multifaceted. It always is. Somebody's, I think I said this to you on the phone and now I can't remember what it was, but it's Eliza Schlesinger always says it. And I love it. It's something like somebody touting their life choices doesn't invalidate your own. Like we can all do

our own things. And this is also our responsibility as educators as well. Again, I keep saying it, but meet someone where they're at. Always have to meet someone where they're at. I have clients from Beverly Hills who, you know, have every resource at their disposal. So I'm going to work within those confines because this person might need convenience and that convenience might be ordering a takeout salad or having a private chef. And I also have people on Medicare that I work with whose financial resources are extremely limited. So we work within the confines of that. I mean, so important. You have to do what's best for the individual where they're at with what they have to work with. And that's, you know, our responsibility as nutritionists to take that on and help guide them. And that's where

it's really fun because you get to be creative and flexible. I'm busy on your Instagram before you've posted about organic foods you can get at Walmart. I mean, all we're going to do is try to help everyone on every end of the spectrum do the best with where they're at. Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, before we sign off, tell everyone where they can find you. My website is just my name, brinagavin.com, B-R-Y-N-A-G-A-V-I-N. And my company is called The Simple Leaf. And I kind of created it with really similar to what we're talking about. Just taking all the really confusing information about nutrition and what needs to go in our bodies and just making it simple. So it's just The Simple Leaf. I love that so much. We'll also add it in the show notes. So if anyone wants to go click on a link, there it is. Well, that's it for today. Thank you so much for coming on.

My pleasure. Thanks again for listening to this week's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. The show is produced and mixed by Drake Peterson and Christopher McCone of Peterson McCone Productions. Hit them up if you guys have any podcast needs. They are amazing. My theme music is by the singer Georgie. Please subscribe, rate, and comment on either Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any major podcast platform. If you want to find me on IG, my handle is RealFoodology.

See you guys next week. I know that's my own.