Realfoodology - 77: The Effects of Fear, a Brief Look into the Adrenals with Dr. Tricia Pingel

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

Tricia Pingel, NMD is a naturopathic physician and expert on adrenal fatigue and the physical impact of stress on the body. After struggling with multiple symptoms throughout her life that were routinely dismissed as “normal,” Dr. Pingel discovered naturopathic medicine and was able to eliminate her symptoms by focusing on the root cause of disease and supporting her body with proper diet, supplements, and stress management. In this episode we learn all about the adrenals, what their function is, the effects of fear on our body and health, what stress does to the body, fight or flight and so much more. Check out Dr. Pingel: www.drpingel.com 10% off at www.totalhealthapothecary.com Code: REALFOODOLOGY

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. What can you do to minimize the impact? We all have different genetics. We all have different lifestyles. We all eat differently. We all live in different homes with different jobs. We have to take all that into account and we have to figure out a way to stay healthy

so that we don't fall into, great, now I'm diabetic, what can I do now? Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. Today's episode is really interesting. I have been wanting to record an episode like this for a while. I like to pick certain subjects in health and really dive into what's causing it, what we can do about it, the signs and symptoms and the tests and lab work to ask your doctor for all encompassing. And today we're going deep into adrenal fatigue

and the adrenals. I brought on Dr. Trisha Pingel. She is a naturopathic physician and she's a real expert on adrenal fatigue and just the physical impact of stress on the body. You know, there's no denying that our modern lives are super, super stressful. We have a lot of demands on us. We have the comparison trap of social media and staying up late now because we're addicted to our phones and our sleep is being disrupted. I mean, there is so much going on that can cause outer stress on the body and on our, it really does take a toll on our emotional health. And we really dive deep into this conversation. I really enjoyed it. I found it absolutely fascinating. Dr. Pingel is so knowledgeable in this area. We talk all about

the adrenals, what their function are. So if you're listening and you don't even know what the adrenals are, we definitely address that. We talk about some of the surprising signs that you might have adrenal fatigue, what stress actually does to the body. We talk about fight or flight and how we're living in this state of fight or flight. We also talk about how this is applying to COVID right now and how the last two years have really caused us to go into this fight or flight fear response and what it's actually doing to our decision-making skills. And we also talk about just stressful events in general, how exercise plays a role in stressing on the adrenals and my own personal journey with that as well. I share that and we go into food and lifestyle choices that help to

support the adrenals and what we can do to really turn this around. We also talk about supplementing and what supplementing can do and how it can really help your stress levels and help those adrenals. And towards the end of the episode, she goes into all of the tests and the lab work that she has done on her patients that are struggling. It was really interesting. So you'll probably want to take notes during that time. And hopefully this will be a great resource for you to go to your doctor, ask for them to look for these things. And as we say in this episode, I just want to remind you that it really is a collaborative effort with your doctor. They are the expert on the human body, but you are the expert in your own body. You're the expert in

what it feels like to be living in your body. And it's your job to communicate that to your doctor so that they can then help you effectively with all the tools that they have. So with that, this is a great episode. I hope that you guys enjoy it. As always, if you are loving the podcast, if you could take a second to leave me a five star rating and a review, it would mean so much to me. It really helps the show. It helps get this out to more ears and ultimately hopefully is helping more people with their health. So I really appreciate your support.

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and make sure to use code realfoodology at checkout for an additional 15% off. That's neurohacker, N-E-U-R-O-H-A-C-K-E-R.com slash realfoodology for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks to Neurohacker for sponsoring today's episode. Well, Dr. Pingel, I'm so excited to have you on today. Thank you so much for coming on. Before we kind of dive into, I want to really dive into the adrenals today, but before we do that, can you tell everyone a little bit about your story and how did you get into the naturopathic path? Yeah. You know, I actually started in veterinary medicine. And I think what I loved the most about veterinary medicine was that you really had to be a good

diagnostician because the patient can't tell you anything. And then it's very individualized depending on the breed, you know, what's going on. There's no, it's not a one size approach to everybody. So I had intended on becoming a vet. And right about that time where I was applying to vet school, my dad had a stroke and was in a coma. And I flew up to see him, you know, to say goodbye. They weren't really sure exactly what was going to happen. And at that point, I kind of, it was the first time I had experienced being a patient or the family of a patient and trying to get information from the doctors and educate myself and, you know, ask them if there were things we could do, things that kind of prevented

it. And I really, I mean, in their defense, they're in the hospital, they're busy, but I really wasn't getting a lot of answers. And I didn't feel like there was this communication or this rapport between the doctor and the patient. So I took the blend of the diagnostics and the individualized medicine of veterinary medicine, plus my frustration as just not being able to get the right education to empower people to be well. And that kind of lended itself to naturopathic

medicine, which is how I ended up finding that discipline. And I just made the switch. I went to naturopathic medical school and focused you know, focused a lot on how do we change our health preventatively and proactively to prevent those situations from happening or minimize those situations from happening. And that's kind of where I ended up or how I ended up here. That's so interesting. I love the connection that you made to being a vet and then to naturopathic medicine, where, like you said, it's like we have to learn to kind of tune into the signs and symptoms of the body. And that's what you have to do as a vet. That's so interesting. I've never made that connection before. That's really cool.

Yeah, they really can't tell you anything. You know, you just have to figure out you have to be really good at physical exam, you have to be really good at interpreting labs. And you have to understand how to treat and understand what the body would do if you treat it and then see if they react. So it's kind of like this puzzle. And I feel like often medicine used to kind of be more clear cut, like you have this disease, here's the treatment. And now with environmental factors and stress and lifestyle, and you know, now we're even more complicated and you have to be able to put that puzzle together to find the right therapy for the right person at the right time, which naturopathic medicine is definitely very adept at.

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, because you think about it, we really, we have changed our entire world and our existence as a species in such a small amount of time. Like you were saying, all the exposure to the environmental stuff. And I mean, and then you think about like the mental health of like social media and just like how much everything has changed. Like I, I don't envy doctors in that way because it really is. There's a whole new element of like, wow, like getting to the root cause of what is going on. There are so many different things that could be going on. So many. And you have to look at them all. You just have to, because inevitably the one you don't look at will be the one that did it, you know? So yeah, you really have to be comprehensive

as a doctor to find what's going on and find a way to create an environment where the patient is open and honest and communicative, where there's a relationship there. I think my experience with my dad and even with my mom, she passed of cancer five years ago and going through her whole experience as well as just trying to find a doctor that you can relate to and talk to and be honest with and break down in front of if you need to. And, you know, that relationship, I think we've lost as well. I've always loved that house doctor, you know, the neighborhood doctor that knows the family and knows the dog's names and knows where the kids go to school. That's something that's very close and near to my heart. To be able to really understand someone holistically as a whole being and not just as a diagnosis was really, really important to me.

Well, and you just named a really important difference between where we are now with allopathic medicine and doctors versus this new wave of naturopathy, integrative functional medicine doctors is that they actually take the time to get to know you. They sit down every single session you have with them is between an hour and an hour and a half, because I've heard so many doctors say this is that if you talk to your patient long enough, they will usually tell you what's wrong. It's so interesting. They won't tell you in the first 15 minutes either. It does. It takes an hour. Yeah. And it's interesting that, yeah, it's like you need that time. And I say this all the time on the podcast. This is not to like vilify the allopathic model. You know, we need it for like acute care, but we've gotten to this place now where doctors don't have,

they have, they don't have longer than like 15 minutes with their patients. So all they hear is like, Oh, you have heartburn and, um, you're having issues with, you know, X, Y, and Z. We're just going to throw pills at the symptoms instead of actually like really sitting down and being like, okay, but what are your stress levels like? What's your social life like? What are you eating? What are you drinking? Where do you live? What kind of environmental exposures are you being exposed to? I completely agree. And you know, if you think about when you have a newborn, if you take a newborn to the doctor, the first thing they ask is, are they eating? What are they eating? Are they going to the bathroom? Are they sleeping? Are they happy? Are they crying? We ask the new, we ask about the newborn, all those really important, vital things. But then when the child grows up, we don't ask those questions anymore.

Why not? You know, they're part of normal function, you know? It's so interesting. Why do you think that that happened? Is it just because we've gotten to a place where we're just, we're, we're, we're treating the symptoms now and we're not trying to get to the root cause? Yeah, I think there's also not a lot of time. I mean, I know that insurance companies do dictate a lot, so it's not always the doctor's fault. Sometimes they literally cannot take that time and they want to do something in the 15 minutes they have. So they focus in on what they can do to try to make a difference. But I think until we start figuring out what questions to ask the doctor, I mean, that's kind of why I went into what I do online and educating people was to help people know what to ask. And so they can go in there and use that 15 minutes the best that they can to get

the answers that they need to empower themselves to be well. We have the power to heal 100%. But if we don't know where to look or we don't know what to ask, of course we can't get there as easily, right? Absolutely. So what are some of those questions that you tell people to ask their doctor? Well, I think it depends on the situation, you know, because every condition is different. So when I'm looking at certain conditions, like you mentioned, reflux or heartburn, you know, you have to figure out why is that happening? That's not a normal thing. You know, we're not supposed to have heartburn. So we can walk in and say, gee, I'm coming burning and heartburn.

And the doctor says, oh, well, here's your acid blocker. Or you could walk in and say, you know, I'm developing heartburn. I have a feeling it's related to my diet. Can I discuss with you my diet and try to see if we can narrow down what might be causing it? Or, you know, learning about H. pylori and saying, could you test me for H. pylori? Or could you do an assessment on my cortisol levels to see if stress is causing my heartburn? You know, teaching people other reasons why something might happen arms them to ask questions for the right test to try to narrow it down. And most of the time the doctors will go

along with it. If a patient is well-educated and comes in there with a very specific question, rather than us focusing on the symptom or the patient focusing on the symptom, we have to focus on the why. I always say, why, why did this happen? If you're not looking at the why you won't fully heal, you'll get symptom resolution, but you won't heal. If you take the acid blocker, you'll get rid of the heartburn, but you'll also totally screw up your digestion. So your nutrient levels will drop, and then those drops in nutrients will cause another problem, right?

So if you're going to be on an acid blocker, if that's the solution, you have to replenish those nutrients in some other way and figure out how to get your body to digest, whether it's a temporary solution or a long-term solution, depending on your situation. Yeah. So interesting. And you know, it goes back to what we were saying. Like if you, if you actually know kind of what to ask your doctor, what to kind of dig into, then you're eventually going to probably give them some answers as to what it is that you're actually dealing with. Yeah. Yeah. It's a relationship. It's a doctor, a patient, it's a relationship. It's not a dictatorship. It's not a, you do this or else it's a, Hey, what's going on? Well, Hey, here's what I'm feeling. Here's what I think it is. Oh, well,

let's take a look. You know, it's collaborative and not how it was intended to be. I think when you had that family doctor that came to your house and had dinner and looked over the family. It was a collaborative understanding and a collaborative effort of health. And I think we're losing a lot of that. And I don't know if we can change that just with the demands that we have. But we can definitely try to make an impact to empower yourself to be well and to learn more about the things you can do at home that don't require a doctor to be well. Well, and it's great that people are having these kinds of conversations because it's giving people the empowerment to go to their doctor and say these things. Because, you know, I, I try to tell people this all the time. I'm like,

if you have a doctor that basically just tells you like, you don't know what you're talking about, or stop Googling things, or they don't support you in that journey of trying to figure it out together. And it's not a collaboration. I'm like, you need a new doctor because you are the expert. They may be the expert on the human body and the expert on anatomy, but you are the expert of yourself. And you're the only one that knows what it's like to live in your body and your experience. And I feel like somewhere along the way, we've lost that kind of relationship with doctors. It's in, in, I'm not saying this to like vilify doctors, but I'm saying that there is kind of this rapport in some situations where the doctor is just like, no, no, no, no, no. Like you don't

need that. Or, um, I can't tell you how many times I have suggested to people like, Oh, if I were you, I would go get a hormone panel done, or I would get a stool test or whatever. You know, if they're telling me symptoms, I'm like, ask your doctor for this. And they'll come back to me and say, Oh, my doctor wouldn't do it. He said, I didn't need it. And I'm like, you need a new doctor then because it should be collaborative. I get that all the time. And I think we have to remember that we're paying our doctors to work for us, right? We've hired them to help us. And I think so often then we forget that, you know, especially if you are using insurance and maybe you're not writing the, paying the bill directly, but you are, you know, so you're,

you're, you're paying them. And I think there's been a couple of times where somebody has come to me and as the physician, they're like, Hey, I'd really like to run this test. And it's one that maybe I'm not as familiar with, or it's one that I'm like, Hmm, I haven't used that. And I'm like, wow, I got to do my research. Like I leave the appointment. I'm like, I got to figure out what this test is so I can order it for them because obviously there must be some value in it. And I think so often when the doctors don't know what the test is, they just say, Oh, you don't need it. And what they really should be doing is saying, well, let me look into it.

I'll get back to you. Let me look into what it's going to cost. Let me look if it's possible. Or maybe there's another way to test those things, you know? So, you know, being a physician is a practice. We learn as we go. You definitely don't learn everything you need in medical school. You learn the basics.

And then your patients teach you. And, you know, especially as everybody is so different, I don't have two heartburn patients that are identical or two thyroid patients that are identical. Everyone's different. So it's a constant learning process. And I value that greatly as a physician. And I think most physicians do. They just sometimes get lost in the current stuff. And, and, and I'm with you. I, I love all physicians. I think we're all out there to do, to do well. And I think we can all improve each other. And I think if we can bring the patients into the office visit armed a little bit more with some education, I think we'll

get there faster. Absolutely. Well, and I think that there needs to be a reminder and an understanding that when it comes to medicine and nutrition and the human body is that the science is always evolving. As we learn new things, we open our minds up to new things that we didn't even know were there or possible, or that this could even be a thing that we were dealing with. And I think sometimes like we get so stuck in this, like, well, the science is settled. Like it said this, I learned this in medical school, but we forget that it's always changing and always evolving. That is part of science.

That's the beauty of it. That's what's awesome. And our body evolves and adapts as well. And that's amazing to watch someone go through a transformation like that. And then that changes the treatment. They don't fit into the same box anymore. So yeah, I mean, that's what's so awesome about medicine, right? So it just keeps, just keeps changing. So I really want to dive into the adrenals because

I know that this is something that I think that more and more people are really struggling with adrenal fatigue as we go into, um, or just in our lifestyles in general, you know, like we're all so stressed out and we're taxed and it's really taking a toll on our bodies. So first of all, what are the adrenals for people listening that don't understand what they are and what are their function? Yeah. Our adrenal glands sit on top of our kidneys and they actually do quite a lot. They're very small, but they're very powerful. So one of the first things they do is they basically assess if something is stressful or not. So I always use this example. If you're in the woods and you see a bear, right, your body goes,

that panic that you feel, that fight or flight, that's coming from the adrenal glands. So they make a decision on whether something is excitatory or whether we can just chill out. So that's one function. And we'll talk more about those sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system as well. But the second thing they do is they release something called aldosterone, which manages our sodium and potassium. So they have a lot to do with our electrolyte levels as well. And then lastly, one of their main functions has to do with sex hormones, testosterone, progesterone, and the manufacturing, making, transmissions of all of that.

So often when somebody has adrenal fatigue or their body is under a lot of stress over chronic periods of time, those are the areas where you start to see detriment, anxiety, depression, insomnia, mood changes, hormone swings, you know, changes in electrolytes like swelling, fatigue, dehydration, you know, all these things are coming because the adrenal glands are changing the way our body manages that stress. If they think there's a bear, they're going to treat it as a bear. You know, it's life or death in that moment. And when that becomes chronic, the adrenal glands really become taxed. And that's where we lead to this, I guess, syndrome of adrenal fatigue, meaning that there is a chronic stress response on the body that's

impacting the rest of the body. It's interesting. So what you were just describing, um, for people listening that are, I'm, I'm assuming most people know about this, um, now, but fight or flight. Yeah. And I'm curious to know what your take is on this because it's interesting. Cause you know, back in the day, our ancestors dealt with fight or flight, like you said, when they would literally be, they would come across like a bear, you know, and there was a real risk to their life. But now it almost feels like, and I don't know if there's any way to even compare to our ancestors, but it almost feels like a lot of us are living in this fight or flight place, you know, almost chronically, I can say personally that I was living in fight or flight for the majority of my like teen and young adult years. And it's interesting because we don't actually have these threats anymore. It's not like I am coming across

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It's interesting to compare now. It almost feels like we probably live in more of a fight or flight state now than our ancestors did when they were actually facing like real threats. We do 100%. And that's why I think that adrenal fatigue is actually the underlying cause of many of the conditions that we experience in our society, cardiovascular disease, gut issues, thyroid problems, anxiety. I mean, so if our normal baseline is down here, you know, back in the day when they're waiting for a wild tiger, and we've now adapted, which is what adrenal fatigue

is, adaptation to chronic stress, our adaptation is here. So a lot of the times when you don't think you're under stress, you're still living primarily in a fight or flight. The sympathetic nervous system is what controls that. It says, let's run. Let's get away from the bear. The parasympathetic nervous system is what calms us down, repairs our cells, helps us sleep, boosts our immune system, keeps us young, healthy, active. So if we're spending more time over here, it's having a serious health detriment. And I do think that our society is continually getting worse and worse and worse than that. Social media, you mentioned, fantastic

example. So anytime you're scrolling and you have a reaction, there's your sympathetic nervous system. You know, if you get angry or you feel like you have to get involved or you have to say something about it, or you start, you know, oh my goodness, I can't believe that. That is a sympathetic response. And how quick do we respond to that? Because our baseline is up here. It doesn't take much for us to just whoop, you know? And you have to retrain your body back into parasympathetic state. And last thing on that, I think we're seeing this in younger and younger and younger because the kids are getting on electronics, they're getting on social media younger. So they're actually coming out of the womb with parasympathetic state. And

within a year, they're already raising their baseline and we're seeing more ADHD, we're seeing more anxiety in children, more depression in children, more health conditions in children as well. So we as a society are adapting the next generation to stress. And I think we need to stop it. I think it's up to us to really pay attention to what we're doing and not let it affect us so much so it doesn't affect them. Wow. Okay. Well, I have a lot of other questions and then I want to, towards the end, get into like what we can do to bring ourselves back into the parasympathetic, but you kind of, I feel like you addressed this a little bit, but I want to go a little bit more into detail about this. What are some of the signs that really show that someone is in adrenal fatigue? Like if someone's listening and they're like, oh, am I dealing with this? What are some of the signs and symptoms that they look for?

One of, I think one of the most predominant symptoms that I see is the feeling of overwhelm. You know, like, like if I'm in the kitchen and I'm doing something and my son walks in and says, Hey mom, can I have a sandwich? And I'm like, Oh gosh, you know, I'm not right now. You know, I'm in the middle of something, you know, it's like, I get overwhelmed with something as simple as making a sandwich. It's ridiculous, right? Just say, hey, dude, hang on, right? So I think when these things come at you, these external triggers come at you and you're really fast to react and you feel overwhelmed quickly or it's like, oh, I just can't get everything done today.

Oh, my God, things just come at me. Why can't I get a break? Those types of feelings, I think, are often a sign that adrenal fatigue has been there for a while and maybe you've missed it. But some of the general, gosh, there's so many, Courtney, I'm trying to think. I'm like, okay, definitely changes in sleep, changes in mood. If you're finding yourself anxious, jumpy, depressed, not wanting to do things, when you wake up in the morning, you're really tired. It's hard

to get going. Falling asleep around two or three in the afternoon or wanting to, but being wide awake at two or three in the AM is a big one as well. Just having a switch in circadian rhythm, feeling like you can never get anything done. On the symptomatic side, people get diagnosed with hypothyroidism a ton from adrenal fatigue. There's a huge link between anything endocrine, so anything hormone-related. Blood sugar, thyroid, sex hormones, and adrenal fatigue are like this. They always balance each other out. So changes in menstrual cycles, lowering in libido, hot flashes, low thyroid function, high thyroid function, blood sugar

problems like insulin resistance. I mean, all of these can stem from stress. It's crazy. And when I was writing my book, I was trying to come up with a topic. I knew I wanted to talk about stress and I had this, I was sitting at a local coffee shop. This was many years ago. And I had, all I had was a napkin and a pen. And I drew this diagram. I was like, okay, let's just see what does cortisol do? And I could connect it to every single system in our body directly. And when I saw that, I said, well, there's my book because it is, it's connected to everything. Stress will impact every aspect of your health. If you don't learn how to control it and block it. Oh, you know, and I feel like when you say that you're literally like speaking to me directly,

cause I'm like, I know you're like holding a mirror up to me right now, because like I mentioned earlier, I spent a lot of my younger years in adult life and I still go there sometimes now of living in that kind of fight or flight. Oh, I will say this is something that I really noticed that helped me a lot. And I had not made this connection initially, obviously, or else I would have stopped it sooner. But I had always thought that I needed to do these really intense workouts. Like I needed to do like hit workouts, do, you know, hit the soul cycle bike and go crazy for 45 minutes. And then I realized I was like, I took a step back and I was like, wow, this actually might be contributing to some of my adrenal fatigue. Because what I was

realizing is that it was stressing my body so much that then I was producing all this cortisol and I'm sure a bunch of other hormones that I was releasing, like the endorphins. Someone said to me one time, they're like, we say that, you know, we need endorphins all the time. They're really good and they're really healthy for us. But this will, this stuck with me forever after that. But she was like, I'm not sure if it's super healthy if we are unnaturally manufacturing them every single day by doing these crazy hit workouts. She was like, of course we need endorphins, but it doesn't seem that healthy to me that we're constantly pumping them out in that manner. And whenever, when she said that to me, I immediately, I stopped doing the HIIT workouts. I've stopped doing the soul cycle

and I just started hiking every day. I was doing super low impact walking. And I can't tell you the difference that it made in my anxiety, my fatigue. And I didn't even know that I was completely burned out until I had that comparison of looking back and being like, wow, I was going to these workouts completely depleted. I was so fatigued, but I would just like pump it out. I would force it out anyways, because I'd be like, it's so good for me. And then looking back, I'm like, it was horrible. I was just like pumping out all this extra cortisol and all this stuff that was actually causing my adrenals to be burnt out. Yeah. And I see that all the time. I always see these people are like, okay, I'm going to lose

weight. I'm going to go do the HIIT workouts. I'm going to work out five times a day and I'm going to eat, you know, chicken salad and salmon and broccoli. And they're not giving themselves enough nutrients to sustain that to begin with. And then if you have other stress, yeah, there's no way you can keep up with game over. You know, there's, I talk a lot about external stressors and internal stressors. And so if you have these external stressors like divorce, death, money, you know, social media, when you have those, it causes internal stress on the body and the internal stress then causes external stress. And it causes internal stress on the body and the internal stress then causes external stress and it becomes like this hamster wheel. And those types of workouts,

when you're in that hamster wheel, 100% cause more stress on the body. There is so much research on hiking, walking, yoga, Pilates, and breathing for weight loss, mood energy reversing conditions i mean it is the research is unbelievable walking alone i mean there was a study gosh i wish i could remember the exact details it was something to the effect of if you walk 20 minutes a day you lose just as much weight as if you do HIIT workouts every day. Wow. Because getting outside, one, accesses the parasympathetic nervous system, so it calms the body down and it allows the body to repair. If you're running from a bear, I don't, if you've ever run from a bear, you're exhausted. Like your body's not worrying about repair. It's like, get me away from the bear. But if you get

to walk away from the bear, oh, there he is. Cool. And you walk away, you get the energy, you get the muscle repair, you get the calming aspect where you can digest, absorb your nutrients, repair your cells. And that's what improves our metabolism really is our body resting. So yeah, I'm glad that you noticed that so many people don't. Um, and, uh, I've been doing Pilates and yoga and dance and walking basically for years since I went through adrenal fatigue as well. I'm in the same boat. Yeah. Years and years. And, uh, those have been the most valuable things that I've implemented is getting away from trying to run myself into the ground with exercise, but still doing it, you know, but still doing something. I mean,

it really is interesting. Like I will say those years that I spent doing these crazy workouts. I mean, I remember I would do this, like I downloaded this girl's like a BBG workout or something on Instagram, whatever, like, that's not my point. But I remember like, I dreaded the workouts every day, but I would force myself to do it. And I look back on that now and I'm like, it just makes me sad because I, I was also trying to, um, lose a little bit of weight that I had gained from like college and all this stuff or whatever. And, and it's so funny because now I'm at the place that I wished for years that I could get, because once I started walking, it was like, everything kind of just like fell off and look, this is not about like weight loss or anything like that, but it was more like my body finally was able to just

be like, Oh, like, and like you said, my digestion started working better because when you're in that fight or flight mode, everything else turns off, but your ability to run basically. A hundred percent. Yeah. And you, and you, and it gets in your head and when you keep it in your head, that has an impact on your body. You know, what we put and it gets in your head and when you keep it in your head, that has an impact on your body. You know, what we put out there is what we get. So, you know, I have so many people that go to these workouts and they're like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna lose weight. I'm gonna lose weight. And they don't, they gain weight. And they're like, I don't understand. I'm exercising. I'm like, yeah, but you're stressing about it. Like you,

you can't stress, like go do something you enjoy, be physically active, be mobile and be grateful for your body being able to do it, you know? Um, and, and you'll see more success. So I'm glad you had that experience. That's awesome. Thank you. I mean, me too. It really more than anything else had the biggest impact on my anxiety and stress.

And that's what I needed more than anything else outside of any sort of physical like symptoms or whatever. Though now that I feel like I'm in a place where like, I'm a lot more calm, I'm not living in this state of anxiety and stress. And it doesn't mean I don't ever get there. Actually, when you said being in that state of overwhelm, I was like, wow, that was just my last two weeks. So it was definitely in fight or flight. Me too. Like so overwhelmed. I was like, ah, I can't handle anything. But I'm happy to say that for the most part, that is not my normal or five years ago, you know, would I have stopped myself

in that moment when I snapped at my son for the sandwich? No, I would have flipped out. And now I'm kind of like, Whoa, hold up. You know, like he just wants a sandwich, like take a deep breath. You're obviously in a rear head here. And so recognizing that is really important. Yeah. It's interesting that you bring up that emotional point of that too. Is that what's going on there? Is that more of like, because your body is unbalanced and so maybe your hormones are out of balance or what's kind of happening there with like the mood swings and all that? You know, there's actually quite a different, quite, quite a few different things that can impact that. Number one, uh, when we have a threat, whatever that may be, it promotes fear, okay, in our brain.

So our amygdala says, oh no, threat, that's a problem. And the fear then impacts our prefrontal cortex in the front of our brain and impacts our decision making, okay? So we kind of go into that, oh my gosh, this is what we need to do. And everything else is just almost blocked out. So there's that in the initial moment. Over time, as you're experiencing this more often and you're spending more and more time in that fight or flight, you start to lose a lot of nutrients. You burn up through your B vitamins, for example, B5, B6, B12. B6 is required to make serotonin. You can't do it without it, okay?

So also vitamin C. You fly through vitamin C and other antioxidants. You fly through your minerals when you're under stress. These things all are required for proper neurotransmitter balance, proper hormone balance, proper liver function, proper toxin removal. When you're not getting those nutrients effectively, it causes other problems that then put more internal stress on your body, which then perpetuates more of a reaction in your brain of fear, which then goes to the prefrontal cortex, which that you get my point. So it's like this cycle that just keeps going. And so you really have to get in there and you have to change it up here. You can take all the supplements you want. And granted, you'll make it a certain, you'll make it very far with proper exercise, diet,

supplementation. But the part that I think you have to get a hold on for long-term health is this part, is not letting the fear take over. Because it's very easy. It's the easiest response. Anger and fear are the easiest response to anything. Hands down. Nobody ever has trouble with that. So you said something very interesting that I'm going to apply to what we've been through the last two years and we don't have to go too deep into it, but because people have been living in so much fear and so much fight or flight the

last two years, because all we've been hearing about is deaths and you could go outside and die and there's this mega threat outside. And so people are not thinking clearly when things are not making sense. Like for example, when I went to a restaurant the other day and they made me put on a mask to stand at the host desk. And then I walked literally three feet to sit at my table. And then I could take off my mask. And when no human being is going to say that makes any logical sense, but we are so scared that we're not thinking correctly about what is actually logical and what is actually in front of us.

And this is why like I talk about this part of what we went through with COVID that is so important is like we need to stop with the fear. We need to calm with the fear. We need to calm down that fear. And I find it so empowering to know that there are a lot of things that we can do for our health that will protect us, our immune system and all this stuff. And that has helped me really not live in the fear for the last two years of what we've been dealing with. Yeah. And you're in California. So I think you're still kind of in so much restriction. I'm in Arizona. So we've been pretty much open for a year and a half and we're all here. Like we're, we're standing and we're living our lives. But I do think that fear component, I agree with you

on the restaurant. I've never understood that. Um, it doesn't make any sense. Um, but yeah, but there was some studies and these were done earlier in the pandemic that actually showed that you were more likely to die of COVID if you had elevated cortisol levels. Um, and we know that because when you're under stress, you have higher levels of inflammation. What's one of the precursors to death, high levels of inflammation. You have higher blood pressure. What are some of the pre, you pressure. You have more heart disease, diabetes, 100% a lifestyle and stress-mediated condition on the type 2 side. I mean, obviously, there's autoimmune conditions as well. But all these things that put you at high risk,

and I was going to say outside of age, but age too, because the longer you age, your cells don't repair quite as well. So you have lower antioxidant levels, lower B vitamin levels, lower vitamin C levels, the older you get unless you're replenishing them. So when we look at all those risk factors, they're all modifiable. And so we can reduce risk. There's also a lot of treatments out there, a lot, that are working really well for that virus. So in that respect, we do need to get out of the fear because if you take one person who's fearful and one person who's not, and they both get COVID, the one with fear has a higher risk profile than the one who doesn't. So at some point, we have to come out of that fear and trust that we're taking care of our body, trust that

we're responsible for our own health and what we do with our own health and, and, and move forward, um, rather than continuing to divide on who wants what side and who thinks this or that doesn't make any sense to me. Oh my God. And it, you know, and it just drives me crazy because when I hear you talk about this, the impact that the stress and the fear has on our bodies, and then you think about the way that we have approached this the last two years with the news and how it's just all been headlines of fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. Think about how different our response as a society would have been if day one, Fauci or whoever it was, any of our public leaders just came out and said, Hey, this is really serious. We should do X, Y,

and Z, but you need to make sure that you take vitamin C, get outside and get sunlight, move your body exercise, you know, reduce your stress, get sleep, eat healthy, reduce the sugar, because these are things that are going to give you more of a fighting chance. It doesn't mean that it's a guarantee, but that's life. There's not guarantees in life, but think about how different the response would have been. Because I know for me, like that was the first thing I started doing when this virus first came out is I started researching. And the more that I found out, the more that I dug into this and really understood that like a lot of it is contingent on like comorbidities and the health of my own body. And so I really like leaned into all of these things that I knew.

I went into my toolbox as a nutritionist and was like, okay, I know if I do X, Y, and Z that I'm going to have a healthier body. And imagine how empowered and less fearful we would have all been and how healthier we would have been in the last two years. There was a study there. Well, there's been multiple now, but really early, there was a study that came out that showed if you have proper vitamin D levels, you reduce your risk of hospitalization by over 80%. That's crazy. 80% like that's something that should be in the news. That's an vitamin D is cheap. It's easy to

test. You just ask your doctor. It's one of the questions to ask your doctor, what are my vitamin D levels? And find out what they are, because if it even has a chance to reduce that risk, is there any harm? There's no harm. There's also a lot of studies on vitamin C and zinc. Here in Arizona, they started using zinc in the hospitals right away, which I did appreciate. Other states, you can't get zinc if you try. If you ask a doctor, they're like, no. So, I mean, when we look at those things, I go, well, what's the harm? Let's say you take zinc. What do we... It's only going to do better for your body. Yeah. And the first job of a doctor is first do no harm. We're doing harm by not educating. And who knows, like you said, life happens. I lost two wonderful people

to stroke and cancer, two of the top killers. And then my grandparents to Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease. I've lost family members to suicide, all of the, and I've lost family members to pneumonia. I lost one to COVID. I've lost ones to other types of pneumonia, you know, and I look at those top killers in our country. And you do take a risk every time you walk out of your house, every time you get in a car, every time you make a choice, you make a choice, right? We can't control it. And I think going back to that first thing and how do people let go, I think when you're in a fight or flight, you have this idea that you have control,

that you're going to be able to fix it, or you're going to be able to do this, or you're going to be able to prevent this or that. We don't have any control. All we can do is be in the moment, make a decision in that moment, accept it, be grateful for it, and move on to the next moment. That's all we can do. But I think paying attention to those other things really would help a lot of people come out of fear and being a physician who has treated these patients. I haven't had, um, luckily haven't lost any, you know, and, and I'm thankful for that. Um, but I think, you know, they were very proactive with their health. So yeah, that fear based mentality needs to go. I'm with you. Yeah. Out the door. Out the door. Well, it's not serving us. And like, you know, like we were saying, it's turning off our ability to make rational, just logical

decisions. And then on top of that, like you just said, it's putting our health at risk. Like there's so much going on there. Okay. So let's kind of go back to the adrenals and what are ways that people can support the adrenals, um, like foods that support the adrenals. And then let's also talk about like lifestyle factors and things that people can do. Yeah. You know, on diet, really my main thing is it needs to be nutritionally dense. Now, for me, that means a lot of plants. Now, a lot of people misinterpret that, that you have to go vegan to get over adrenal fatigue. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that a lot of people, like I said earlier, will have salmon and broccoli

or salmon and asparagus. And that's the extent of their vegetables, right? And they're not getting all those minerals and healthy fats and stuff from other types of foods. So for me, I really lean towards a very nutrient-dense diet that has all those minerals you're losing, that has the vitamin C you're losing, the B vitamins, and making sure that you're having a wide variety of foods as well. You're not eating the exact same thing every single day.

So that's very important. There's also a lot of replenishment you could do supplement-wise with that as well. I'll use an example. Like if you have your water, your water cup, and it's only this full, right? And let's say you only have this much vitamin C. Well, you can't fix that with diet. Sometimes you have to add extra vitamin C until it gets full. And then once it's full, diet takes a little bit more of a role in maintenance, right? So when you've really been in a lot of stress, sometimes you do have to replenish those nutrients to get

you back up to get your cup full so that you can maintain it with some of the lifestyle measures such as diet, exercise, mind-body. So I often have to use methylated B vitamins, which are primarily B5, B6, B12, methylated folate. The methylated part is really important. I also use vitamin C, other antioxidants like quercetin, alpha lipoic acid, NAC, often magnesium, probably one of the number one deficiencies I see. I don't know about you. Definitely see magnesium deficiency.

And a lot of that has to do with a lot of over supplementing of calcium, as well as not having the proper amount of vitamin D, as well as just depletion from stress. And when you're running from a bear, you're going to have to use a lot of magnesium. Your muscles are going to get sore. There's a lot of demand there. Those are the main ones. I also use a lot of herbal therapies too that calm the body, amino acids that are amazing. And I do have articles on my website

on these because they're a mouthful uh phosphatidylserine oh yeah i'll take that one yeah which helps you because it helps with brain function oh 100 because you and you know what that's a great point a lot of people say well i'm so stressed out i can't think i have brain fog i need more stimulants no you need less stimulants. You need to calm the body down because when you're running from a bear, you're not going to remember what the flowers you ran by. You're not going to remember what path you took. You're not going to remember if there was a lake there or which direction you ran, right? It's not until you calm down that you're like, oh, that's where I'm at, right? So you use amino acids such as phosphatidylserine and L-theanine

to calm that down so that you can focus in on your surroundings. Combine that with things like ashwagandha, which I love, shishandra berry, which I love, bacopa. And then you can also use things like rhodiola, ginseng as well in different blends just to kind of give the body, I call it more of like a cushion to stress. Like, Hey, when it comes at me, I'm just going to kind of help you manage it. Um, that on top of trying to get yourself out of that fear loop, uh, really can be very successful.

So you brought up a really great point that sometimes when one thing is deficient, because we forget that everything works in sync together with the body is that if one thing is deficient, because we forget that everything works in sync together with the body is that if one thing is deficient, oftentimes other things are going to be deficient. Similarly, like if your adrenals are not working as adequately as they should be, then your thyroid might not be working as well. And I think it's really important for people to hear that and to remember that because if you have one deficiency, oftentimes there's going to be other things going on that are connected with that as well. And that might be the missing puzzle piece. I will say what really helped me a lot. Um, and someone can also just do this with

someone like you, a practitioner, but I take these vitamins called honed vitamins. They used to be called Paragon. And I send in like, you send in like a little clip of your hair and they do an analysis on it. And then they come back and they're like, oh, you are really low in this vitamin and you have a little bit of metal toxicity or whatever it is. And then they send you like all these vitamins. I sound like an ad right now, but I really do love it. And they basically like make up this plan for you. And I will say that like, I didn't notice it at first, but looking back on it now, I'm like, wow, all those deficiencies that they found were also contributing to my chronic stress. And because I was low in this, then it was also low in that. And then as we got these numbers up, then the other numbers

came up and it really, um, it is, it has to be this multifaceted approach. And then you will start to really see the difference as you start to like implement all that. And then I think a really good point you made too, is bringing down that fear. So how do we in a world, in this world that we live in where we are constantly being inundated with this fear and the headlines and the click bait and the social media and all that stuff, like, do you have any tips for people on how to kind of mitigate that? Uh, first of all, get, get rid of the phone. Don't keep it in your pocket. Don't keep it in your hand. Don't sit and scroll on it. Just don't do it. I always say when you come home from work or whether you're coming from your living room or an actual office, when you come home from work and you sit down, hang your phone up. Don't buy into it. It takes a real discipline.

And if you're someone that has a hard time with that, you need to do it more than anyone else. If I say, put the phone in a drawer and don't look at it for four hours, and that gives you anxiety, that means you're already in it. So, you know, a lot of people really give me a hard time about that. Don't sleep with it next to your head either in your room. There's no need for a phone in your room. You can buy a $12 alarm clock at Walgreens. There's no need because the first thing you're going to do is pick it up. So that alone, I will say, when I can get people to do that, that reduces that fight or flight. I don't have like a direct study, but I would guess, just guessing, but easily by 20%. Easily.

Because when you don't have that instinct to, oh, what's going on? Oh, oh, what? I need to check this. I need to check this. That calms down a lot. I do that on the weekends. I try to take phone hiatuses where I just don't look at it. And the first day is always a little bit like, maybe I'm missing something. And by the second day, I forget I have it, you know? Um, and, and that's, and that's something that's a really good way to go about it. Uh, secondly, recognizing that we are where we are in this moment, because we're supposed to be here at this moment experiencing what we're experiencing.

A lot of the times we look behind us and we say, well, I could have done that. I should have done that. I, you know, I didn't do my workout. So therefore I didn't do this or, you know, let it go. It's not it's not worth it. We are where we are for a reason. And there's something laid out in front of you for you to accomplish. And so you can give in to what everyone else wants.

And you can listen to their fear. And you can buy into their story and their narrative and whatnot. Or you can say, all right, this is how I'm going to choose to live my life today, right now in this moment. And it sounds like that should be simple. It's not simple. It's hard. It's hard. It is. It's really hard because we do get caught up. I mean, I'm a mom. I run businesses. I see patients. I'm a wife. Like I have so many hats I wear that I get caught up in everybody else's stuff before I go, hey, what does Tricia need today? Did I do anything for me? So a lot of, you know, there's

lots of different ways you can go about that. You know, gratitude every day, just having gratitude and acknowledging the good things in your day, turning those negative things that you read or the negative things that someone said into something positive can really be a practice that takes five minutes. Breathing. I don't know if you know that. I'm sure you know this, but maybe other people don't know. When you breathe, it stimulates the vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve is what accesses our parasympathetic nervous system and calms us down. So when we're in a rush, we don't breathe. When we're stressed out, we don't breathe. We breathe up here. So deep breaths,

even literally like every hour, taking two minutes, wherever you are to breathe, just breathe, can totally lower your stress response. So walking, another great one. Just get out and walk and breathe. Do not talk on your phone while you're out walking. Don't bring your phone. You don't need your phone. I mean, if you're listening to music, I get it. If you can turn all the notifications off and you're just listening to some cool music, but there is a lot of value in listening to nature, hearing the birds, hearing other people walking, hearing your feet in the, on the ground, those types of things have a very calming aspect about them as well. So those would kind of be some quick to the point tips. But yeah, it's really just recognizing it and acknowledging it and being grateful for where we are.

We can worry about what's going to happen tomorrow, but we really don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. And we have no control over it. Yep. That's the thing. It is what it is. We can worry about it, but worrying about it is not going to change the outcome, you know? Yep.

So we have to, there is an element of just having to make peace with that, you know, and just knowing that that is just what it is. And I will add to that, this is something that I have really struggled with, and I will say I still struggle with this sometimes when I'm working so hard on this right now, is I will try to put my phone on do not disturb by like, you know, 7, 8 p.m., whatever it is, just literally plug it in in the other room and not touch it until I go to bed, you know?

And then I wake up in the morning, I can check everything. There's not anything pressing unless if you're literally like a doctor on call and someone's gonna have to call you for surgery, there is no need for you to be tied to your phone like that. And I will say it has really helped my stress levels, my ability to go to sleep easier. And then another thing too, is unfollow accounts that give you anxiety and fear porn. Don't check those, you know, the news sites, don't turn on the news. There are other ways to

get your news in a way that's not just like, ah, death and fear and all this stuff that's being thrown at you, you know? And I think that's a really important thing in a reminder. I mean, it drives me nuts. Every time I go home, my dad, just every single night, 6 PM, he has to have the news on. And then all I hear the whole thing is I think my dad's so desensitized to it now, but all I hear the entire news segment is death, fear, death. You know, this person died, this happened, you know, this horrible thing happened. And I'm just like, oh my God, how do you listen to this? Imagine if they reported like every death of cardiovascular

disease, every death of the flu, every death of diabetes, every death of suicide, every, I mean, we'd be, I mean, oh my gosh, I hear you. And you know what, on your morning routine, I even say, when you get up before you check your phone, take a minimum of 15 minutes, if not an hour, have your coffee, have your tea, chat with your spouse, go for a walk, sit outside, then check your phone. And I am a doctor who's on call. And my patients even know that. Like if they text me at 6 a.m., they know I'm probably not going to look at it till 8 a.m., but I'll get back to them right away as soon as I allot that time. Right. But yeah, the morning too, because we go to sleep without that stimulation, wake up to something that connects you with your environment and nature. And if you want to see what your friend is up to,

pick up the phone, call them. You don't have to look at Facebook or Instagram to find out what they're doing or what they did this weekend. Call them. You know, we've lost that ability to call each other, which is kind of a shame. My kids have no idea how to call people. I'm like, can you call, you know, call so-and-so. And they're like, what? They're like, why wouldn't we text them? I'm like, do you want to invite a friend over? They're like, Oh, I'll meet them online. I'm like, no, no, you'll invite them. Oh God. I hate, I'm so worried about this next generation. I'm like, are they all just going to be sitting at home in the metaverse, like meeting online? And I'm like, oh, no, this is...

Well, I guess we have control over what we, how we raise them, right? So I guess maybe there's still some hope. Absolutely. I agree. And especially if we are aware of this and we are able to help our children implement these things, then we will help them in the future of society. I hope so. So are there any other things that we haven't listed that help people to bring them back into the parasympathetic system? I've been kind of playing with some, suggesting to patients some cold therapy, which is kind of cool, because that also stimulates vagus nerve. I mean, it's all

about stimulating the vagus nerve. So when I say you don't want to be stimulated, you do want to stimulate the vagus nerve because the vagus nerve will calm you down. So things like yoga, Pilates, cold therapy, even just putting a cold rag on your neck. Like you're overwhelmed, the kid comes in and wants a sandwich, put a cold rag on your neck, you know, so that it knocks you out of it. That can help a lot. And also leaving whatever environment you're in when you feel overwhelmed, that's your, that's your cue. As soon as you find yourself snapping, leave wherever you are, walk out the front door. That's my favorite thing to do. Do some breath. I just leave. My husband's like, she's out. I'm like, I'm out. Okay. He's like, she'll be back in like 20 minutes. She's going

for a walk. I'm like, yeah, I'm out of here. Like I can't, I'm overwhelmed. I'm recognizing that I'm like, I'm out. Okay. He's like, she'll be back in like 20 minutes. She's going for a walk. I'm like, yeah, I'm out of here. Like I can't, I'm overwhelmed. I'm recognizing that I'm not, that I'm making stupid choices and I'm snapping at people. I don't need to snap at. So I'm out of here, you know? Um, yeah. That's smart. I mean, that's like pausing and taking a minute when you say cold therapy really fast before you keep going for people listening. Do you mean like cold showers, cold plunges, things like that? All of the above. I mean, there's all these, I don't, yeah, I don't know how it is where you are. I'm sure it's great in California as well, but here in Arizona, we have cryotherapy clinics. I mean, you go and you douse yourself in ice water. Um, I'm not a fan of cold. That's why I live in Arizona. Um, so my cold has to be a lot smaller than that. Like for me, if I can put cold mittens or like

something cold on my neck, I'm good. But a lot of people, uh, really love cold therapy. And I've had a lot of my adrenal fatigue clients play with it a little bit and they're really like, they feel much better afterwards. So I think there's a lot of value there too. Yeah, I agree. And you can feel the effects of it after when you do it, it really does feel good. Yeah. So to sort of start trying to wrap this up, what are, if people suspect or they know after hearing this that they are dealing with some sort of adrenal fatigue, what are some things that they can ask their doctor to either like test for? What are some deficiencies to look at? Maybe there's even like foods that they could eat that could help replenish some of those nutrients that are lost during all that stress.

Yeah. I do think always pay attention to B vitamins, vitamin C and minerals and probiotics, because you're going to impact your gut flora. You're going to impact your mineral balance. You're going to impact your vitamin C and your vitamin B. And that's because the adrenal glands need those in order to do what they're doing. So those are the first ones that they should talk to their doctor about for sure. I think if they're willing to do nutrient testing, I think it's fantastic. I think the specialty tests are better at that than say LabCorp or Quest in the serum. I think you're better doing urinary tests that look at breakdown of nutrients or like you mentioned hair type things. I also always run, this is going to be kind of a comprehensive list. Bear with me.

I always run, you know, blood counts, metabolics, cholesterol, vitamin D, B12, folate, inflammatory markers, like high sensitivity, CRP, sedimentation rate. I always run DHEA, which is basically the precursor in the adrenal glands to decide, am I going to make cortisol or am I going to make hormones? So it's kind of like that decision factor. And if something's happening down here, by the way, let's say that you're deficient in testosterone or you have a lot of cortisol and your DHEA isn't taken into account, that's where people go wrong. Maybe their DHEA is low and that's why their testosterone is low.

So instead, people give a bunch of testosterone and then they have all this spill over to estrogen. They have all these other symptoms when the problem is actually further up. So with adrenal fatigue, you always want to look at DHEA and then whatever falls below it, and then whatever that then triggers, like thyroid, TSH, free T3, free T4. Reverse T3 is a big one. A lot of doctors have given me pushback on reverse T3. I encourage anyone who's never heard of it, look it up. It's not a complicated test. No. Totally straightforward, available at all the labs, typically covered by insurance, not some crazy test that I'm asking for, but reverse T3. And then thyroid antibodies,

check for Hashimoto's before hypothyroidism. Check for those antibodies. What else do I have? Hormones. And if you're looking at hormones, looking at in women, well, and men, estradiol and estrone. Estrone can cause a lot of problems. Estrone is the storage of estrogen. And when we're under stress, we store. Because if you're running from a bear, you're not going to think about stopping having

sex or reproducing, or you're going to be like, all right, I got to put this aside. So we store a lot of hormones. So looking at the storage form of hormones that will also have an impact on the liver, the way that you, and whenever your liver's bogged down, it'll have an impact on toxins coming in, other stress coming in. So looking at the storage of hormones, estradiol, estrone, total and free testosterone, progesterone are also really important. And the last point on that, I look at them all at once. I don't look at one here, one here, one here, one here, because I'm looking for a holistic view on what's doing what. When DHEA is low, what is it doing to testosterone? What is it doing to estrogen? What is it doing to

cortisol, right? Is it feeding back on the thyroid? If you take it in pieces, it's really hard to put together because hormones move. So if you draw your hormones on day 19 of your cycle and you try to compare it to day six of your of the cycle. Um, in men, not as, um, obviously there's no cycle to track, but I do try to keep it, um, kind of the same time of the month. If I'm going to try to compare apples to apples, cause they do go up and down. Right. Yeah. It was a long list. Did you get it all? Oh my God. I was just like nerding out while you were saying all that. I was like, yes, yes. You reminded me of like why I want to be a practitioner and why I don't, I haven't taken clients in years, but the lab work is my favorite thing ever. It's so fascinating and it's such an easy way to really understand what is going on in the body. And it's, it is, it's kind of this, like, to me, I see it as this like challenging, like puzzle that you kind of have to put everything

together. And it's, you just, you brought up such a great point. Once again, I said this earlier, but I think people really need to download this and understand is that if you're having one symptom, it could be that there's all these other things happening in the thyroid, the liver, whatever it is. And it's why it's so important. We need to take this scaled out view and try to put together everything that's going on. And I'm just so grateful for doctors like you that are able to zoom out and put all these pieces together. Yeah. And you know, the ranges, you know, I, I'm never a fan of, Hey, your labs are fine. Click. Wait a minute. You know, so sometimes people say, Oh, they say my thyroid's fine. I'm like, well, what did they run? And, and is it

fine? Like, is the T4 balancing to the T3 or is the T4 totally fine? And the T3 is low and the reverse T3 is high. You know, like you have to kind of look at it. These ranges are arbitrary. They basically take a hundred people and they chop off the top two and they chop off the bottom two. And they say, on average, your range should be this. That doesn't mean that it's optimal. That doesn't mean that it isn't being impacted. When stress starts to impact the thyroid, for example, it doesn't make you hypothyroid right away. It builds up reverse T3, often causing antibodies that then feed back on the thyroid that change the way that the thyroid is utilized in the body. So if you're just looking for one number or to be in a range, you're kind of

selling yourself short because if it used to be, if your TSH used to be at one and now it's at three and it's still in range, why are we ignoring that? Why is it at three? Why did it change? So looking at trends is really, really, really important. And those are some of those questions that I try to arm people with to say, go to your doctor and say, how come my blood sugar was at 88 and then it was at 90 and then it was 95 and then it was 98 and now it's at 101 and you're telling me I'm pre-diabetic. What's happening? What's going on? Why didn't you tell me this last year when it was at 98? Well, it was in range. Well, okay. But, but people forget. And I think a lot of people don't know this is when we look at average ranges,

the majority of our population is sick and unhealthy. I'm sorry. There's only about 12% of people that are considered metabolically healthy. So the average that we are pulling from is from kind of unhealthy people. And this is not a dig, but it's something that we need to recognize and remember that if your doctor is like, oh, you're fine. You're within these like average ranges. It's like, well, am I in these average ranges of a bunch of people that are unhealthy and they are well on their way to hypothyroidism or whatever it is. And you brought up a great point. We need to start asking our doctors more questions like, okay, every time I come in, I see these numbers going up. And

even though I'm quote unquote, still in the average range, what does that mean that these numbers are moving? And am I starting to move towards some sort of disease that I want to get a handle on before it goes full blown there? Yeah, it's a lot harder to treat. Well, it's harder to treat lifestyle wise when it's already hit disease. It's easy with medication, right? You say, Oh, well, you're pre-diabetic now. Here's your metformin. Take care. See you next year. You know, or it's like, that's a harder time to have the diet conversation because it's been years and years of building up. And now it's not just diet. Now it's diet and inflammatory markers and stress and other combat and weight gain and all this type of thing. So now you have more to deal with. So yeah, I'm with you. I think every lab review every year should be compared to the

year before. I think it should be a good hour with your physician. If you get one that's on point, maybe 45 minutes, but like get in there and just compare it and really look at what can you do to minimize the impact. We all have different genetics. We all have different lifestyles. We all eat differently. We all live in different homes with different jobs. We have to take all that into account and we have to figure out a way to stay healthy so that we don't fall into, great, now I'm diabetic. What can I do now? You know? Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you know, we look at like the top killers, um, in the U S are all diet and lifestyle related. It's all chronic diseases. Now we're just managing chronic

diseases now. Yeah. And the medications, the top medications used, that was another thing. When I wrote my book, I wrote down all the top prescriptions at that time. And it was, you know, antacids, thyroid medication, anxiety medication, sleep medication, blood pressure medication, cholesterol medication, and diabetes medication. These are all things that are functional. We made them happen. And yet we're just treating them with medication. And I'm not knocking it. Sometimes you have to use medication. And I prescribe medication when I need to. But for me, it's not a fix. It's a bandaid so that we can fix the underlying issue to be able to remove it or to reduce it or use very minimal amounts of it. I mean, sometimes you do need to use thyroid medication, but I want to use as little as

possible and replenish anything that it's depleting. Like metformin, which is the number one prescribed drug, I think, right now for diabetes, depletes B12 like crazy. Well, B12 deficiency causes neuropathy. So does diabetes. Oh, my God. So it's like, well, you're going to get neuropathy from diabetes. You're going to get neuropathy from the B12. All you have to do is supplement it. Like, it's not rocket science.

Just pay attention. You know, diabetes impacts potassium levels. If potassium levels are impacted, so are sodium levels. So are magnesium levels. So look at those and look at it holistically. I think there's a huge opening in our world for integrative medicine. Huge. Yeah.

Thankfully, people are starting to wake up to that because we are realizing that we're sick of just having doctors spend, you know, 10 minutes with us and just throwing medication at the symptoms instead of being like, okay, but why, why are your magnesium levels low? Or why is this low in, or even doing those tests to say like, you are low here and this is going to affect X, Y, and Z. So let's start supplementing those things. And you know, in some of it too, it takes a recognition that unfortunately our food is not what it once was. Our food doesn't have the same minimal mineral profiles that it used to have. We are spraying the living hell out of all of our crops. Now it's killing the soil and the soil is what feeds our plants that gives it the nutrients that our body needs. And unfortunately, we are not

getting that from our food anymore. And this is also why I believe that supplementation is so important because we need to fill in those gaps. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's sad. The farming really is impacting particularly selenium. I mean, why do we have so many thyroid issues? I mean, selenium is huge in that, right? And we used to get our selenium from plants. Not so much. Not so much. Yeah. You can do it from Brazil nuts, but yeah. And I love Brazil nuts. Oh, I love them. Um, yeah, that's the number one food source of selenium. I think that's the one that has the most per bite or whatever. Right. Um, yeah, but you know what, I guess that's one of the things we can be grateful for with the last two years of everything that's happened is that it is opening up people's eyes

to the value of lifestyle and how important it is to stay healthy. So we can spend a lot of time going, oh, wow, this is awful. What a horrible situation. Or we could say, hey, you know what? This opened our eyes to something that maybe we weren't on top of before that maybe we need to pay a little bit more attention to. And I encourage people to look at it that way and say, we can learn from this experience from the last two years. We can learn a lot. Yeah, that's a great point. I love that. Well, before we go, I like to ask everyone this question for you personally, what are your health non-negotiables? These are things that no matter what, no matter how crazy your day is, you make sure that you make time to do these things for your health. Yeah, that's a great question. I love that question. I wake up every morning and I

don't look at my phone. I have a cup of coffee. I chat with my family. And that's a very important moment in my day. If for some reason I don't get it, which is very rare, let's say I have an interview or something where I have to get up early, my day goes downhill. I really need that moment to just connect with my people, with my family. And I also never really falter on my diet. That is one thing that I, for so many years, would eat stuff and feel so horrible that now I really, it's non-negotiable for me. You know, people say, oh, the holidays are coming. I'll eat a little dairy. Yeah, no, I won't., nope. I'm putting good food in so that I can have a good day. So those are the two things that I'm always very consistent with and exercise is up there, but there are some days where I miss it, you know, life happens. Um, you know, but, uh,

yeah, that was it. Well, for everyone listening, where can they find you? They can find me at drpingel.com. That's D-R-P-I-N-G-E-L.com. And all of my social handles are on there. I have a blog. I post tons of articles on a lot of what we've talked about with a lot of the research. So you can arm yourself with questions. And then follow me on Instagram, Facebook. I do a ton of videos and such.

So I look forward to seeing everyone there. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. I loved it. It do a ton of videos and such. So I look forward to seeing everyone there. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. I loved it. It was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called heaven by the amazing singer, Georgie spelled with a J love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is

for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. you