Realfoodology - 8: Why We Should Care About Organic Wine with Todd White of Dry Farm Wines

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

Today I chat with Todd White the founder of Dry Farm Wines, the largest importer of organic biodynamic wine.  We talk about natural and organic wine vs conventional wine, why we should care about the difference, glyphosate in wine, hangovers, why there is a lot of sugar in most wines, how to find natural wines and so much more. Before we get into the episode I share some tips for bolstering the immune system as we go into winter!I want us to remember that the healthier we are in our bodies the more efficiently we will be able to defend and fight off anything that comes our way. Show Links: Dry Farm Wines Biggest Little Farm Raisin Wine App To e-mail the show: [e-mail] 

On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. I don't know if you've ever experienced to see people get purple teeth or purple lips from drinking wine. That's usually from a color agent. You won't get that from our wines. Wines don't make your teeth red. Hi guys. Welcome back to the Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host Courtney Swan. And today's subject is all about one of my favorite indulgences, wine. As I started getting more into my health journey and really learning about pesticides and just in general, the importance of what I put in my body,

I started to look at the wines I was drinking. And as I started to kind of learn about the, you know, the farming practices here in the US, and this goes for our food as well as for our wine making. I started to see that there was a lot of similarities between what's going on in our food industry and what's happening with our winemaking here in the U.S. And that was when I came across this company called Dry Farm Wines, and they are the largest importer of organic, biodynamic, natural wines. But I wanted to bring on the founder of this company today to have a discussion about this because I don't think that this topic is being talked about enough. And I think it's incredibly important, especially more than ever right now with this pandemic.

I can only speak to my experience and my friends, but I've found myself drinking a lot more wine than I would like to admit. And I'm finding it increasingly more important as I'm putting more of that wine in my body, that it's cleaner, comes from better, more higher quality practices. So I think this is a really important conversation to be having right now. Imagine having a metabolic coach in your pocket that you could access at any point, any time in the day, whenever you want. That's what Lumen is. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your

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the products from our place, go to fromourplace.com and enter my code realfoodology at checkout to receive 10% off site-wide. That's fromourplace.com, code realfoodology. Our place offers a 100-day trial with free shipping and returns. We dive into natural and organic wine versus conventional wine, why we should care about the difference. Glyphosate in wine. Glyphosate is one of the highest sprayed herbicides on our crops here in this country. And it's being linked to things like cancer. So it's a serious thing.

Hangovers, why there is a lot of sugar in most wines and how to find natural wines and just so much more. Todd, the founder of Dry Farm Wines is so informative. And this episode is just so jam packed with great information, some that I had never even heard. So I really hope that you walk away today with a better understanding of the importance of natural and organic wine and why we should care. And it's more than just an exaggerated SNL skit or something you would see on Portlandia. It's an actually really important topic. And with that, let's get to a fan question. Before I get to the question, I just have a little disclaimer. As always, these answers and this podcast are just for educational and informational purposes only.

I am an integrative nutritionist, but I'm not a doctor. And I don't know you personally. I don't know what's going on in your body. So just know that this information on this podcast is not a sub for individual medical or mental health advice, and it doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship, as always talk to your doctor first. Today's question was emailed to my show email, which is real foodology podcast at gmail.com. So if you guys have any questions, make sure you send them in. Today's question comes from Ari and she says with all the talks of COVID, I know it is super

important to keep your immune system nice and strong with all the different products, vitamins and supplements that are thrown in our faces on social media, TV, and the internet. I get a little overwhelmed. I really just want to have a nice regimen that is not too expensive, not too time consuming, and something that I know will keep my immune system in tip top shape. Can you help? Okay. I love this question because I fully, I hear you. This is a complaint that I hear a lot because it's kind of like, we're getting so much information thrown at us and where do we even start? So there's a couple of things. First of all, above and beyond supplements, I think the most important thing to remember is that we have immune systems for a reason. And our immune system is

there to fight off viruses, bacteria, germs, anything that we come across in our day-to-day lives. And it's really important to remember that our immune systems are just as healthy as our bodies are. So we need to be prioritizing sleep, exercise, getting sunlight every day, because with exposure to sunlight, we are getting vitamin D from the sun and making sure that we prioritize healthy foods because you know, the healthier our diet is, the less inflammation that we will have in our body. All of these factors will help bolster our immune systems and keep them as healthy as possible. And then when we get to supplements, there are a couple supplements that are, you know, scientifically proven to help your immune system. And I, you know, I mean, these are pretty basic supplements and vitamins that

I'm sure all of you listening have heard. Vitamin C, zinc, vitamin D is a little bit more under the radar, but vitamin D also helps a lot with the immune system. Also probiotics, because 70% of our immune system lies in our gut. And part of that whole immune system is our microbiome, which is the combination of our good and bad bacteria that lives in our guts. So probiotics really help to maintain that balance of good and bad bacteria. So those are the supplements that I would say to prioritize. I talk about this a lot on my show, Paragon Vitamins. I love if you can afford them.

I don't want to sound like an ad here, but, uh, I like Paragon vitamins a lot because it's tailored to your individual needs. They tell you exactly what's going on in your body. And then they give you a regimen and they start as low as like $39 a month. And then they go all the way up to, it's like a little bit over a hundred a month. So you kind of can fit it into your lifestyle however you please. If you can't afford that, that's totally fine. I would start at the very basics, getting back to eating real food, eating less processed foods, and that's going to really help your overall health and help keep your immune system in tip top shape. These are all things that will help your immune system. So there are different herbs that really support the immune system. There's echinacea, there is oil of oregano, elderberry syrup is really good. And there's a specific supplement called wellness formula that I really like. And it has all of these different vitamins and herbs that are all scientifically

proven to support the immune system. It has echinacea, it has garlic in there. So this is another important component of it, actually, the garlic, ginger. There are foods that really help with the immune system as well. Of course, your citrus fruits that have vitamin C. Garlic is an antibiotic and antiviral because there's components in garlic that actually fight viruses and fight bacteria. So there's also foods that you can eat. But I think the point that I really, really, really want to hammer in is the difference between something called germ theory and terrain theory. So there's the school of thought that many diseases are caused by infectious agents or germs, right? And this is called the germ theory, where a disease

is caused by microorganisms or, you know, foreign invader coming into the body. And then there is another theory called the terrain theory. And what the terrain theory states is that diseases are actually a result of our internal environment and its ability to maintain homeostasis against outside threats. What does that mean? It means that if we are healthy in our body and we have a healthy immune system that's working effectively and efficiently, we're going to be able to fight off any sort of germ, pathogen, infectious disease, virus that comes our way because that's what our immune system is for. And when we have a healthy immune system that's functioning correctly,

it doesn't matter what this germ or pathogen that comes our way, we're going to be able to fight it off. In this case, the terrain, meaning your body, and it's all going to be dependent on how healthy your body is, how healthy your immune system is, because ultimately if you don't have a very strong immune system, if you don't have a super healthy body, if you're not in great physical health, then you're not going to be in a position to be able to fight off something as efficiently as someone who has a stronger immune system and who is in better health. I really want to say that this is not a judgment towards anyone listening. I'm not trying to point

any sort of fingers. I am just trying to speak in very general terms of what it means to be truly healthy. Ultimately, I just want us to remember that the healthier we are in our bodies, the more efficiently we will be able to defend and fight off anything that comes our way. So I think it's more important than ever to just be focused on eating real foods, whole real foods in their natural state, less processed foods. And, you know, as an added bonus, let's bring in the vitamin C, the zinc, the vitamin D, and remembering to get exercise and better sleep. I hope this helps. There's one more thing that I want to address because I've been dealing with this a lot lately on my Instagram and I've become a lot more

silent on my Instagram lately with around these conversations because, um, there's a lot of censoring happening right now and my account has been affected by it. It's not being seen as much as it used to. Um, and there has been a lot of talk around just censoring in general. So this is not some sort of secret or conspiracy theory. Companies like Google, Twitter, Facebook talk about all the time how they are putting disclaimers on tweets, on Instagram posts. But my point in all of this is that I think we need to question who's deciding what's true and what's false and what the intent behind it is, like who has money to lose or money to gain from certain information coming out. I am not disagreeing that there is some stuff that

does need to be censored. I think we can all agree that hate speech and inappropriate content should be taken down, but that's not what I'm addressing here. But we're getting to a place now where simple things like talk of the immune system and vitamin C, we are no longer allowed to freely talk about that on Instagram. And I'm seeing it on my account. I'm also seeing it with friends' accounts and other natural, like naturopathic or functional and integrative medical doctors. I'm seeing them get censored about this as well. And what I'm talking about is basic science. I learned this in college. I learned this during my master's program. There are certain things that are founded and grounded in science that we know to be true,

and those aren't going to be changing. So for example, our immune system, that's not a conspiracy theory. We have an immune system to protect us from disease and things like vitamin C and zinc. We know that these nutrients bolster our immune system and support it. And there's a lot of censoring happening around that. And I have some theories, but I don't want to go down any sort of rabbit hole with that. But there's a lot of funding behind big pharma and pharmaceuticals. And when we have a healthier population that doesn't need to rely so much on medication, then there's not as much money to be had. So I just wanted to give you guys a little bit of food for thought and also to let you in on what's going on right now and why I'm not as outspoken as I once was about this

because I'm not scared of the censoring, but it hinders my ability to get this message out when my account is being censored and not shown to as many accounts because then it limits my reach and it limits the amount of people that I can get this information out to. And ultimately that's all I wanna do is to spread this information to help you,

to help your families, because I just want to see us as I want us to be a healthier country. And I want to see people thrive. And, and the only way that we're going to do that is to prioritize our health and get back to what it means to be truly healthy in our bodies. And that's ultimately why I wanted to start this podcast, because I am fully in charge of the information that I am releasing, and there's no censoring happening here. So if you resonate with this message or you know someone that does, I hope that you will share this episode with them. I hope that you'll share this podcast with them.

And just know that I am always striving to bring you the best information to the best of my ability and, you know, best of my knowledge. And I don't have any sort of intention behind it other than I just want to see everyone living healthy and thriving in their lives. So with that being said, let's get in the episode. Well, welcome to the podcast, Todd. I'm really happy that you're here. Well, it's going to be a lot of fun. It's a beautiful California day. Happy to be here and share some of the dirty, dark secrets of the wine business. I'm very excited to hear about this. So why don't you start out by just telling everyone listening who you are and what you do? So yeah, I'm the founder of Dry Farm Wines. I've been a biohacker since way before biohacking was even a thing. And, you know, just really into living a natural life,

just kind of whole and real and just authentic and with intention. And I eat and I drink with intention. And so I became therapeutically ketogenic about six years ago and started experimenting with fasting and a lot of sort of biohacks at the time. And I found that I couldn't drink conventional wines anymore, and I didn't know why. I thought it was just because they're higher in alcohol. And so what surprises people to hear from the wine guy is that alcohol is a very dangerous neurotoxin and ruins millions of lives a year. And so it's something that we should really take seriously when we think about our health or living a life of intention where alcohol is concerned, which is why we only sell and drink lower alcohol wines. And so it just makes a material difference in how you feel. So in my pursuit looking for lower alcohol wines, I've learned from a friend that there were lower alcohol wines available in Europe.

You won't find them in the U.S. And so in my pursuit of looking for lower alcohol wines, I actually stumbled quite accidentally on the natural wine revolution. And so people say, well, what is natural wine? Well, for the reasons I'm going to explain to you, people are confused by this term when they hear natural wine, because their first response generally is, well, aren't all wines natural, right? And for the reasons I'm going to explain to you in just a few brief moments, no, that's not true. Most wines are not natural products. Most wines contain chemicals and additives.

And so they're- Similar to our food industry. Yeah, so what has happened, this is exactly what's happened. So what's happened in the food industry is exactly what happened in the wine industry. And that was around money and greed and corporate consolidation. So right now, the central problem is that the top three wine companies in the world

manufacture over 52% of U.S. wines. And the top 30 companies make over 70% of U.S. wines. So you go in the grocery store and you see shelves and rows and rows of U.S. wines and the top 30 companies make over 70% of U.S. wines. So you go in the grocery store and you see shelves and rows and rows of bottles. Most of those wines are made by just a handful of people. So they don't want you to know that. So they hide behind thousands of brands and labels to confuse you, right? And so the label will have a picture of a chateau or maybe a cute farmhouse, right? Or a tractor. They want you to believe chateau or maybe a cute farmhouse, right? Or a tractor. They want you to believe that you're drinking wine from this farmhouse. When in fact, in most cases, you're drinking wine from massive factories located in the

Central Valley of California. So the reason, you know, the reason for all this is around money and greed. So they're not trying to make wine better or healthier, they're trying to make it faster and cheaper. Yep. Right. So that's the same thing that's happened in the food supply. And so, and so we, you know, when we use the word natural wine, it's confusing to consumers. And it's further complicated a bit by the fact that there's no international certification for natural wine. Now, there is a very clear understanding internationally in the wine community about what a natural wine is. But for consumers, it remains somewhat of a confusing term.

Let's unbuckle that for a moment, what natural wine is. Yes, please. Natural wine represents less than one-tenth of one percent of all wines produced in the world. And to give you an example, South Africa is a very large wine, the eighth largest wine producing country in the world. But there are only four natural wine growers in all of South Africa. And so this, this is this revolution of natural wine, which is the way all wines were made 100 years ago, right? But things have changed, and primarily around this acceleration of opportunity. So, and like what we do in America,

we scale everything, right? And so it just got bigger and a bigger problem. So these, a natural wine is always grown organically or biodynamically, and biodynamic farming is a prescriptive advanced form of organic farming. So it's always organic or biodynamic. Natural wines are always fermented with wild indigenous native yeast. Well, what does that big mouthful mean? Well, a wild indigenous yeast is found in the skin of every wine berry in the world at the time of harvest. So on every wine berry, there is, at the time of harvest after the summer every wine berry, there is, at the time of harvest, after the summer, there's a white film. It looks kind of like a wax, a waxy film on the outside of the grape. That's actually yeast, and that yeast is collected through the air over the season, right? And at

harvest, the grape berry is covered with yeast so when you ferment a natural wine you it's what's what it's what's called a spontaneous fermentation because the yeast and the sugar are already there which is how you make wine so when when the yeast comes in contact with the sugar that's in the grape juice the yeast eats the, and that's the yeast's food form until the yeast eats all the available sugar or the yeast is otherwise killed. Commercial wines are not fermented with this wild native yeast. They're fermented with modified lab-grown yeast, and the reason for this is quite simple.

You can't make wine in very large volumes with the wild native yeast. It's too fragile. It's too temperamental. It's too difficult to work with. So you can only make wine in smaller quantities with it. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of us are concerned about aging. There is a class of ingredients called senolytics that were discovered less than 10 years ago, and they are being called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime. Now, when I'm talking about aging here, I'm not just talking about on a superficial level, wrinkles and saggy skin. I'm talking about energy, joint pain, your ability to show up for your life, cognitive

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punch like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume them safely without any glyphosate in it. So let's break down each one. The Easy Greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids' growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. It helps to fill in nutritional gaps, aids in growth and development,

supports digestive health, has a rich micronutrient profile, and includes digestive enzymes. This would be a great way to sneak in greens for your little one without them actually knowing that it's healthy for them. And the second one, which is the wild berry punch similar to Kool-Aid is called Protect and it is to support your child's daily immune health with food derived nutrients that work to strengthen their body's first line of defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health.

It's organic and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste and it's low sugar and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants, astragalus, elderberry and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about today or any of the Organifi products, go to Organifi.com slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It slash RealFoodology and use code RealFoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash RealFoodology. The other problem with it is it requires a lot of coddling, right? It's just a very fragile yeast.

These modified lab cultured yeast are very strong. They're very easy to work with. You can make wine in infinite volumes with them, right? And there's two other factors about them. They will withstand a higher alcohol environment than a wild native yeast will withstand. And you can also buy them in flavors. So as an example, if you want, you know, a crappy industrial farm grape in Central California to taste like it's from Italy, they have a yeast for that. Right. And so. Wow. That's really shocking to hear.

Yeah, we don't know what that means to our health. I'm just describing to you, natural wines are always fermented with wild native yeast. And third, they're additive free. And here's the most shocking thing to people about what's happening in commercial wine, again, around making wine cheaper and faster. FDA, your friends of the government, have approved 76 additives for the use in winemaking. Some of them are natural, but a number of them are quite toxic, right? And so further from your friends in government, you don't know about these additives, and the reason you don't know what's in your wine is because they've spent millions of dollars and lobby money fighting efforts to put contents labeling on wine bottles and also have successfully fought efforts to put any nutritional information on the wine. So if you're interested about your sugar intake, as an example, you don't know how much sugar is in a bottle of wine when you pick it up because there's no guide to it. Nor do you know the ingredients.

If it contains dimethyldicarbonate or ammonia phosphate or copper sulfate, these are some of the additives that commonly go into wines, right? If you look up dimethyldicarbonate on Wikipedia, you look under where it says hazard, it says colon toxic, right? Yep. And so that's what's wrong with, that's the difference between a natural wine and what's going on in commercial wine. The problem is, own sugar is an example. Now, while there's no certification for natural wines in the world, dry farm wines, my company does have the certification, right? And so we certify that every wine is organically or biodynamically farmed.

We certify that the wine is lower in alcohol. We don't sell anything over 12.5%. Commonly, commercial wines are 14.5%, 15%, 15.5%, 16%. Yeah. Right? And so another collusion between the government and the wine industry the alcohol stated on a wine bottle i say stated because what's put on the wine bottle by law is not required to be accurate most people are not even looking at alcohol amount

no it's by law not required to be accurate and so wow and so you don't even know how much alcohol why is that yeah why would they do that i'll tell you why in the beginning there was a logical reason for that so most of the alcohol laws in this country were the federal laws were written post-prohibition in the 1940s all right yeah nowated laws. That's a pattern we're seeing here. Right. Yeah. So these laws are so outdated. Here's why alcohol amounts didn't have to be accurate in the beginning. Because in 1940, lab testing for alcohol varied from lab to lab, right? And so the wine industry got a variant, so of a percentage and a half. If it says 14% on the label, legally it can be as high as 15 and a half percent and still be legal.

So in 1940s, testing for alcohol could vary from lab to lab. That's not true today. Today, you get an exact reading from every lab, right? Because the technology is just far superior. But the industry doesn't want this leeway changed because it gives them the opportunity to sell higher alcohol wines at a lower stated amount. Two reasons for that. It used to be that federal tax was based

on the amount of alcohol that was in it. That's since been revised. But the other thing is that the wine industry likes alcohol. And I'll tell you why. It's addictive. And it's what I call a domino drug. So the more you drink, the more likely you are to drink more, right? And so that's just how alcohol works. So it sells more wine to sell a higher alcohol product. Also, Americans like it. And the reason being is that the typical American palate has been deadened and killed or what we call mummified, right, with processed foods and high intakes of sugar, right? So people don't taste what you and

I taste, right? The typical American palate is quite desensitized. So this higher alcohol adds boldness and density to wine, right? And so, and many people, in fairness, not me, probably not you, are drinking to check out, right? I'm drinking wines to tap in to a higher creative expression, more euphoria to, I'm not trying to check out. I'm actually trying to tap into a spirit. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel the same way. And into a community spirit of drinking wine and sharing natural wines with, with my friends and family. And I genuinely love the taste of it too.

Right. I love wine. I don't love alcohol, but I happen to love wine. And so, which is the reason we're so committed to selling a lower alcohol product. We have wines that go down as low as 7%. Oh, wow. What is a typical bottle of wine, would you say, the percentage of alcohol, just to give people perspective for that? It's nearing 15%. Wow. Okay. It's just shy of 15%.

Do you guys have bottles that are that high percentage of alcohol? We don't. We don't sell anything over 12.5. Okay. It's just shy of 15%. Do you guys have bottles that are that high? We don't. We don't sell anything over 12.5. Okay. And if you go in the grocery store, you'd be very challenged to find a single bottle at 12.5. So I want to ask you then coming from that perspective, from someone listening that's thinking, okay, well then what's the point of drinking that wine if I want, you know, like I drink wine to get drunk or I want to have that kind of euphoric feeling. You just have to drink more of it. There you go. Right. I mean, you can still get drunk, I assure you. You just have to drink more of it. Yeah. And so, but, you know, I don't drink, if I want to lower the inherent amount of alcohol that I'm consuming, which I think is a healthy,

I think it's healthy for my brain. Yes. I think it's healthy for my body. I think it's healthy for my liver. So I'm a huge advocate of drinking less alcohol. I am too. I just wanted to pose that question because I'm trying to think of it. So I mean, if your goal is to drink higher alcohol products, we're not for you. If your goal is to drink more wine with less alcohol, then that is for you. Because see, most people don't have a glass of wine. They have several. And I drink a bottle a night, sometimes more.

And most of the wines I'm drinking are between 9.5% and 11.5% alcohol. So usually around 10% or 10.5%. And for me, that's a good amount that allows me to drink a bottle of wine, not be drunk. I'll be high, but not drunk. And it allows me to enjoy the wine over a several hour period, right, without getting intoxicated. And so that, you know, for me, that is just healthier. And so if you believe as, you know, people, when I first started this and I was the first person to, and remain virtually the only person to talk about drinking lower alcohol wines and the importance of moderating your alcohol intake, I'm still virtually the only person talking about it, certainly in the wine industry. In fact, we have lookalike competitors

who regularly on social media will post full alcohol. It's like, look, great. You're not speaking to my customer. I mean, my customer wants a lower alcohol experience right they don't want more they want less they want to be able to enjoy wine and enjoy it in a multi-class experience and have a great communal time filled with love and euphoria but they don't want to get drunk and so that's my customer you know you know and you know what's really interesting you keep talking about

this sense of like euphoria from drinking the wine and i have to tell you one of the first times that i ever drank um you guys sent me a bottle of your red wine and i i experienced that this kind of like euphoria that you're talking about when i had the wine and i i only had i think a glass or two of it and i didn't feel drunk but i felt this sense of like um yeah euphoria happiness is that a product of the way that you guys cultivate well i think i think it comes from several things we don't really know yeah um because there's no research that's been financed on the differences between commercial and natural wines here's what we know for sure drinking less alcohol feels better right And so you just

don't get banged on the head with it, right? And so it's a more gentle rise. And then if you want to rise as far, you just keep drinking it, you'll get there, right? But it's a more gentle rise. And then also, we don't know what impact the additives have. We don't know what the impact of winemaking styles that are very popular in the U.S., which are very weighty, heavy extracted wines that spend a lot more time on skin. They're picked at higher sugar levels in the beginning. This is all a winemaking style, and so, and it's a style that's been popularized because Americans like big, bold, rich things, right? But when you eat lean- And we're also addicted to sugar. Right. They're also addicted to sugar. So, you know, when you combine sugar and alcohol, you get,

seem to get sort of a instantaneous response that's not positive and it leads to higher negative impacts. I give you an example, anecdotal evidence, because you've probably experienced this. If you were to drink, if you were to take a shot of tequila, that's a very different experience on your mind and body than drinking a margarita, right? Yeah. And so a vastly different experience. And so you've probably had that experience. I've certainly done many shots of tequila and I've had many margaritas in my day, but I don't drink either anymore, right? But because I live on nearly sugar-free lifestyle. And so anyway, but having done that before, there's just a very big difference.

And I give you, let's talk about organic for a moment. I would love to talk about this. I wanted to ask you something really quickly before we move on from this. Is there any governing body that is regulating natural wines? I know there's organic, but. There's not. There's no certification. Now, that being said, France just announced about a month ago, they would be the first country to certify natural wines. Wow. And this is a great move. This is a terrific leap forward. Nobody wants to be having this conversation in the wine business. Nobody in the United States in the wine business wants to be having a conversation about what natural wine means, because then we have to talk about what unnatural wine means. Exactly.

And they're concerned about their bottom line, the money. Right. So it's like nobody wants to be having a conversation about what natural wine means or certifying it in the United States. There's no powers that be when I have that conversation. The moment we start talking about what a natural wine is, we have to talk about what an unnatural wine is and expose all of their, and expose the things that we're talking about. Yeah. Right. And there's no, and there's no appetite, even in the mainstream wine press, wine critics, Psalms, nobody wants to talk about this, right? Because these are all the wines that they write And there's no appetite even in the mainstream wine press, wine critics, psalms. Nobody wants to talk about this, right?

Because these are all the wines that they write about and get advertising dollars from. And they have a lot of money to lose from all of this. So let's talk about organic. Yeah, so I want to talk about organic because this is a really important, very important point. So this is going to be a bit confusing, but just listen closely. My listeners are smart. They'll get it. Nice. See, all natural wines are organic, but not all organic wines are natural.

Okay. In fact, it's, in fact, most organic wines are not natural. They're just organic. Now, let me tell you why that's important. If it's natural wine, it's additive free, right? And it's fermented with wild native yeast. If it's an organic wine, it just means that the fruit was grown organically. Now, is that a step forward? Yes. But it doesn't mean the wine comes without additives or without the use of these lab culture yeast. So, you know, if you go, now, the reason that's important, and the reason that it's important to drink natural wines, remember they're both organic, except natural wines are additive, and natural wines are also fermented with wild native yeast. But they're also made with a lot more love and

care at small family farms. And why is that important? Well, I like to use this example. When you go to the farmer's market, and you see amazing and incredible vegetables that are, you just want to take photographs of them. They're so beautiful and they're so lush. And so they're just so vibrant, right? And you go into a supermarket like Whole Foods where they're also organic plants there, but they don't look anything like the ones at the farmer's market.

That's because the ones at the farmer's market have been cultured and grown with love by a family, right? And that's the same thing with natural wine, because you can't make wines in very large quantities and have that same spirit and quality. Same thing for the vegetable, you can grow it organically, but once you reach a threshold of size and you start scaling it, it can't, it doesn't look like it was grown with love. It doesn't have that same look because you can't scale that. Yeah. And that's the same thing for natural wine. So, you know, these smaller quantities, small family farms that are cultivating these, these amazing vines and then fermenting you know in small

quantities using native yeast it's the same kind of comparison right like so i mean going to the farmer's market is just that's a blackbird you've heard it i'm outside and um and so you know it um it's just looking at the when you know, it's so thrilling. I haven't been to a farmer's market this summer, but they're still open here. And, but, you know, going to the farmer's market and just seeing those vegetables and just like how much life is, I mean, you know where life comes, that life comes from living soils. So just the tender and the care of a living soil is extraordinary. Now, here's another thing about dry farm wines, and our name, dry farm, means that we don't allow irrigation. And so this is another extraordinary, which is why we don't sell domestic wine. Generally speaking, more than 99% of U.S. vineyards are irrigated, right? And so, and why do

you irrigate? Well, you know, why do you irrigate? Well, it's about money. It's about greed. So here's the thing. Unirrigated, the soil management and the vineyard management for a dry farm vineyard is much more difficult and more expensive. It's cheaper and easier to irrigate, right? Because you don't have to manage the cover of the soil. So when you don't use irrigation, you have to plant cover crops in the winter, which fall down. You have to create a mulch that locks in moisture into the earth. It's just a lot more difficult, and it costs more. The other thing is that irrigation produces a higher yield. That means that there are more clusters on the vine. Now, it also produces a fruit that weighs more. It might not surprise you that when you fill a grape berry with water, it weighs more. You also have higher yields because

most irrigated vineyards are also being fed liquid nitrogen through the same tube, so they're getting fertilizer. This produces a higher yield. Well grapefruit, wine grapes, are sold by the ton. So the more it weighs, the higher your yield, the more valuable the crop is. But you're also, it saves a tremendous amount of water not irrigating, right? California's been in a drought for years, right? And it would be amazing if we were saving that water. And so it's published that it saves about 16,000 gallons an acre, right, of water. Wow. that it saves about 16,000 gallons an acre of water. So anyway, so the other thing is that, look, irrigation is bad for the planet.

It's bad for the grapevine. And it produces a fruit that actually has less polyphenols in it. Polyphenols are the healthy compounds. There's about 800 of them, flavonoids and anti-flavonoids, that are in it. Polyphenols are the healthy compounds. There's about 800 of them, flavonoids and anti-flavonoids that are in wines. Now they're much higher in red wines. Red wines have over 800 polyphenols and white wines have just over 200. And the extra polyphenols in red wine come from the contact with the skin and the seeds. And they fight free radicals, which is part of the many things that we can list as a health benefit to drinking wine. Right. So, which is

the reason generally speaking you hear that red wines from a health point of view are recommended over white wines. And that's because the increase in the polyphenols. And the most famous one is quite well known is called resveratrol. Which resveratrol has been shown in organisms worms and yeast to extend lifespan and has also been shown in mice to extend lifespan there's no no there's no human proof that it extends lifespan and the dose levels and the mice that they gave were quite high so we don't know that it actually does anything uh for sure in humans but uh i'm trying to get as much resveratrol as i can it's not like you're doing plenty of red wine um yeah so fun

times this is so interesting so i i went to a wine shop one time when i was in paris this was a couple years ago and i wish i could remember the name of the wine shop because the guy, the owner was just incredible. The second my friend and I walked in, I mean, he had us on like a 20 minute conversation about similar things that you are talking about right now, which is really what initially led me to finding you and sparking my interest in all of this. And he, so he showed us the roots between, it was like the difference between his whole thing, his entire shop was he was explaining to us why he only uses natural wines, organic, biodynamic. And he showed us the difference between roots that were coming from grapes that were farmed conventionally versus being farmed organically and biodynamically

and the difference in them. Right. So it's the same. It's shocking. Yeah, it's huge. So irrigation does the same thing. So an irrigated grapevine has a root structure of about three feet wide and about three or four feet deep because it gets all of its water and nutrient from a little tube just above the, so it's a very, it's a very diminutive root structure. A mature unirrigated grapevine can have a root structure that can span 30 or 40 feet

deep. And so, and that is, it struggles for, is it struggles for its search for nutrient and tiny particles of moisture, right? It's like capillary little hair-like roots that are crushing mineral and rock and stone and also soil in search for, you know, moisture and nutrient. And so, which is why natural wines and unirrigated wines, you have a lot more minerality in them, right? And so, which is why natural wines and unirrigated wines, you have a lot more minerality in them. Right. And so, but yeah, but also, you know, also not only irrigation, but also the use of chemicals in farming are unhealthy for the plant. And so, you know, the plant wants to grow quite naturally. The plant doesn't, you know, really care about wine. What the plant cares about is producing the most superior fruit, hoping that the bird will choose their fruit to propagate their mission of reproducing. What we know for sure across plant life of all types of plant life, is that when a plant struggles, right, it creates a better fruit.

There's no dispute anywhere in the wine world, which is why vines are planted close together, which is why you'll see, you know, on prestigious bottles, they'll say, oh, it's hillside select because vines that grow on a hill are more stressed than those that grow on flat land. And so there's no dispute from any wine farmer that any grower that stress creates a higher quality of fruit. But the problem is using pesticides and using herbicides like Roundup, glyphosate, or the use of irrigation actually removes stress from the plant. Right. Which is why in most of Europe, it's actually against the law to irrigate a grapevine. Oh, okay. Oh, I thought you were saying about glyphosate.

Well, much of Europe is also banning glyphosate as well, but not in the EU yet, but many countries individually. But in the United States, glyphosate is the number one applied herbicide to U.S. vineyards. And I can tell you, I can drive by a vineyard and tell you if it's been treated with Roundup from its appearance, because there's nothing living. Well, there's nothing living beneath the vine. The vines, of course, are quite leafy, but there's nothing. The soil is almost black. It's dead. It's just dead. It's just been killed. And so living soils, we're about to announce our new dry farm foundation that is going to be, that its purpose is regenerative soil and living soil education and methods and bringing people together to promote the regeneration of soil and to promote living soil farming, you know, which is just a lot more

difficult and more expensive to farm a living soil. I'm so glad that you guys are doing that. I think this is a conversation that doesn't get talked about enough. The use of pesticides and herbicides like glyphosate, it may seem like in theory, like, oh good, we're getting rid of all the bugs and pests and everything. But I think we forget that that soil lives in an ecosystem and all of those pests and everything living in that soil is there for reason. It's what feeds the plants, it's nutrients. And when we're killing off all of that, like you said, we're growing in dead soil, then of course we're not going to have. We're also killing it off from plowing. So most natural wine farmers do not turn over the soil,

right? So when you go into a natural wine vineyard, the cover crop growing beneath you can, and many times they'd be waist high. It's like they almost compete with the vines. It looks like a forest. It's not tended. It's not plowed. The surface is not turned over. Here's what happens when we turn over the surface of the soil. It exposes all the organisms and the life beneath the soil to the sun, and it dies, right?

And so if the soil is turned, it's turned every other year, right? And so some farmers believe in turning the soil to bring oxygen into it, but they do it every other year. So in that case, in a natural vineyard, you'll see one row that has been turned and one row that's natural, one that's been turned and one row that's natural. And then the following year, they do just the opposite. But for my favorite natural wine farms they never plow right and when you walk in there I can show you pictures of it you know where where the the wildflowers and herbs and grasses and you know are waist high and you're just kind of walking through it as you're getting going through the rows of vineyard and you know at the end of the summer those will get those grasses will be cut down and they'll be left to lay and then they'll plant their winter cover crop, which is typically legumes, which then are very high levels of

nitrogen when they get cut in the spring, and then they're left to lay, and that's natural fertilizer for the vineyard. And then it regrows, and then the summer cover crop regrows again, right? And so it never gets plowed because, you know, I mean, we interviewed this Italian farmer who never plows, and his English is very, very, he speaks very little English, but he would refer to the insects under the grasses as the little animals, right? That was the way he was talking about it the as the little animals right that was that was his that was the way he was talking about as the little animals and he was talking about the insects and so and if you and when you go out into the see when you go to a natural when you go to a natural vineyard like i live in napa valley which is a wonderful place to live but but napa valley is like super famous for tasting rooms and

you know and you know big architecture and like the the designer tasting room and so when you go to but the majority of those wines are crap well i don't know about that i have to live here i don't know about that but but but but here's the thing it's just that then tasting room becomes entertainment. When you go to a natural wine farm, first of all, the productions are small. There's no tasting room. There's never a tasting room. And you don't taste wine when you get there. The very first thing the farmer wants to do is go to the vineyard with you and talk about soil and what made me think about this is this italian farmer who i was just referring to

describing the the little animals is um you know he takes like a a hand a hand small hand hoe and he wants to like pull up a piece of the earth and show you what's beneath he wants to talk about the soil he wants to show you the insects that are living in the soil, you know, both at the surface level and below. I mean, it's just teeming with insects. Natural farmers want insects, you see, because farming practices changed in the 1920s. And really from 1920 to 1940, you know, we went from what used to be, you know be a very, very robust, biodiverse polyagriculture to monoagriculture and then consequently the use of chemicals, which emerged, chemical farming emerged, but also we changed from a polyagriculture of biodiversity to a monoagriculture of single-focused farming. Crops, yeah. And so when you go to a natural wine farm, you're going to find livestock.

You're going to find orchards, very commonly olives. You're going to find fruit orchards. You're going to find fruit orchards. You're going to find bees. You're going to find that they're planting crops specifically flowering herbs and wildflowers to attract insects into the vineyard, right? And so they're not trying to kill them. They're trying to attract them. And why is that? Can you explain what that is? Well, because the ecosystem depends on each part of nature. It is all in nature is connected, just like everything in the world is connected. But in nature, the farmer knows.

They're very spiritual, too. I mean, the farmer knows that everything is connected. In biodynamic farming, you have harvest by lunar. You make farming decisions based on moon cycles. Farmers know that everything in nature is connected. I mean, there's a tremendous movie that came out last year, a documentary called The Biggest Little Farm, that covers the regeneration. Have you seen the movie? No, but I've seen the previews for it, and it's on my list. Well, you should see the movie. It's extraordinary. I've seen it like 10 times.

So what they do is they regenerate a California farm that had been killed and had been monocultural into a biodiverse polyagricultural. And this is over a period of like, you know, seven to 10 years, they regenerate this farm and they document the whole thing and so it's amazing to see how each part of the of the farm interlinks with protecting the rest of it how the livestock how the ducks eat the snails right yeah so they they had a snail infestation that were killing their vegetables and so they brought ducks onto the farm and then the ducks eat the snails and so on and so forth. The chickens eat the insects and so on and so forth. Chickens would eat the maggots. And, you know, so all of this biodiversity is connected.

And the bees are pollinating things and so on and so forth. And so it's an awesome documentary that really shows you how nature takes care of itself. Nature is a brutal place. I mean, dog eat dog, right? So, I mean, it's survival of the fittest, but it all fits together. It's all, we've spent a couple of billion years, right? Having this all work itself out. And so.

And it provides us with what we need i mean you talked about this earlier when you're using these specific farming practices like biodynamic it's going to produce a healthier better tasting grape and therefore better tasting wine yeah and people ask me all the time they're like well just biodynamic farming is it really matter? And I was like, you know, and people have done tastings on biodynamic versus organic. But, you know, here's the way I sort of think about biodynamic farming, because there's not empirical proof that all of this kind of craziness that they do actually works. But here's what we do know. And it was created in 1925 by Rudolf Steiner. But here's the way I kind of think about biodynamic farming, which is really quite radical and has some pretty crazy notions.

But here's what I think about it, is that anyone who would follow these kind of strict practices and protocols that come along with biodynamic farming that's far more advanced and prescriptive than just organic, anybody who's that fanatical, and I know these farmers, right, they're just fanatics, right? I mean, they just care deeply about the earth. They care about their families. They care about working around the chemical. Anybody who's this fanatical to sort of pursue the practices

that are biodynamic farming are just going to be fanatical about everything that they do about producing the wine, right? I mean, they're going to be fanatically committed to their cellar practices. They're going to be fanatically committed to their farming practices. They're going to be fanatically committed to their farming practices. They're going to be, you know, they're just going to be fanatics. And so somehow it seems to me that the wine just

tastes better. And I don't know if that's from biodynamic practices or if it's just from their fanaticism. Well, and I find comfort when it comes to something that I'm consuming to know that someone is that fanatical because I know that I'm going to get a really good high quality product. And that's what I'm very concerned about as well, because especially, you know, I'm during this pandemic, I've found myself drinking more wine than ever and more concerned about what kind of wine I'm putting in my body. All of this talk about wine reminds me of my time touring and well, you know, hangovers. If you listen to my first episode ever, I told the story of my past and what I was doing before real foodology or, you know, in conjunction with it, I used to tour manage bands. And most

recently I toured with Tove Lo as her nutritionist and her personal assistant. And I haven't talked about this much, but I used to travel with a carry on suitcase that was full of just supplements and snacks. It was like my little nutritionist carry on, if you will. And one of the things I would do is help with the next morning for her and the band. And I would bring like green juices, smoothies, and I had this whole slew of supplements to help combat the effects and help with the body's detoxification pathways. I mean, let's be real. I was helping people with their hangovers. Um, we had this running joke where we would always say detox to retox. Don't take that too seriously. It was of course, of course a joke and I'm not

condoning any unhealthy lifestyle choices. We're just humans living our lives, and sometimes we drink a little or a lot too much. But the point in all of this is that there are specific nutrients that help the detoxification pathways in the liver. They help flush out unneeded and unwanted substances from the body. For people that are listening that don't know what biodynamic practices are for wine, can you explain that? Primarily two things. It's this lunar planting and also these preparations that they either feed the plant or spray on it. In the quartz mixture, they spray it on. But these preparations are made with all organic earth materials. Yeah, which comes out of the earth.

I'm not an expert in it. I just know a little bit about it because I work with a lot of farmers who produce biodynamic wines. But, yeah, so the problem is if a wine says it's organic, again, it may not be natural. And in fact, the largest biodynamic producer in the United States is not natural. Right. They're quite I mean, they run huge advertising campaigns in there and they're quite vocal about being biodynamic. And it's true they are biodynamic, but it's not natural wine. And so let's talk about finding natural wines. Yes. Right. So, yeah, if, we're the largest buyer and reseller and importer of natural wines in the world.

So if you don't get the wines from us and getting wines from us, we would go back to the certification process for a moment. I don't care whether you get wines from us or not. You should be drinking natural wines if you care about what you put in your body. Absolutely. And if you want to avoid glyphosate in your wine, which is a huge thing I think we should touch on. Right. So here's the thing. Our wines, our certification process, again, goes far and beyond just natural. So natural wine does not require irrigation free. We do. So not all natural wines are dry farmed. Not all natural wines are sugar free. So of course we do independent lab

testing for sugar and independent lab testing for mold, independent lab testing for alcohol. So not all natural wines are low in alcohol. So when you're buying a dry farm wines product, you know it's certified to be sugar-free, organic or biodynamically farmed, irrigation-free, additive-free, and lower alcohol. And so if you just go buy natural wines, you don't know if all of those things, you know by the alcohol you look on the bottle what's stated may generally be accurate but just because natural winemakers are just kind of grown with honesty yeah so similarly to the food industry again it's not regulated as well yeah yeah so if you again if you're buying something in the farmer's market first of all you can look at it you know it's better right yeah but you're buying from a family uh so but if you live in a large market like new york or san francisco chicago um los angeles miami um you you can find natural wines um you can find natural wine retailers and there are two ways to do that um you can um

download an app on your smartphone called um called um sorry there was a bee that was just finding its way over here and i'll say whoa i couldn't tell if i couldn't really tell if it was a honeybee or i couldn't tell what it was. I just knew it was a bee. Perfect for our conversation. I think it was a honeybee, which is the reason that it's gone. It just found that I was not very much interested. It looked like a honeybee. I just couldn't get my eyes on it very well. But anyway, so there's a smartphone app called Raisin, just like the dried grape, that is the smartphone app for locating natural wine restaurants, natural wine retailers, and natural wine bars. And it's quite accurate and has robust content in New York, in Paris, in London, particularly internationally. So, I mean, Paris is the most famous natural wine city in the world. So, you'll find all across Europe where Raisin is based, it's quite active in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco.

So, it works in big markets, but in big markets, you can also do a Google search for natural wine retail, and you'll find that they're natural wine retailers. Now, here's the thing. If it's a natural wine retailer, they don't sell conventional wines. Like, it's all, like, they're fanatics as well, just like we are. Like, we don't sell anything that's not natural. Like, I don't drink anything that's not natural. Like, you know, we're just fanatics about it. And so you'd find the same thing at any natural wine retailer. Occasionally, you might

find a farm to table restaurant, you know, that will have some natural wines on their list. But most of those restaurants also feature conventional wines. However, there are restaurants like in New York or Los Angeles or San Francisco that will sell nothing but natural wines on their list, right? They're just as fanatical about sourcing their food as they are about sourcing their wine, and they don't really care whether they're pedigreed brands that people know or they don't, they're, you know, they're just so fanatical that all they sell are natural wines on their restaurant list but those are typically only found in you know kind of large markets yeah so if you live in a smaller market or a more remote remote market like in the midwest or you know if you live in smaller markets you're just not going to be able

to buy natural wines at retail. You have to go online. You're going to have to go online. Yeah. And if you're going to buy wine online, you may as well buy it from us. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this is one thing that I love so much about your wine. I'm going a little bit off topic, but I just,

you've mentioned it kind of in passing a few times, but I think this is so important to really hone in on this, is that your wines are low sugar, and we already get so much sugar in our diet as is. And I've read that there are a ton of wine companies that are not only using the grapes that are higher in sugar, but then they're physically adding sugar at the end. It's not that, well, I want to correct that. Is that not true? That's not true.

Okay. So wine is, let's talk about how wine is sugar-free or not sugar-free yes right thank you yeah because some conventional wines can be sugar-free the problem is we just don't know we just don't know okay wine's not so sugar is not added to wine here's how sugar gets in wine in the fermentation process remember we talked earlier so when you make wine how wine gets made is that the juice is pressed from the from the from the fruit and the juice goes into a tank now if it's red wine you add the skins in the tank with it that's how it gets its color red wine gets its color from contact with the skins and it gets its tannin structure from

the seeds and some stems right but that's red wine white wine is just free run juice it never gets skin contact you just press the juice from the from the grape it goes into a tank and then if it's a natural wine it will spontaneously begin to ferment because the yeast is already there. Now let's talk about natural wines for a second. So if it's a natural wine, it starts fermenting spontaneously because the yeast is already there. And if the wine is allowed to fully ferment, which means that the yeast are allowed to eat all the available sugar, then the yeast will die a natural death and that becomes what are known as lees, they're dead yeast laying in the bottom of the tank. And so at that point the wine will be sugar-free because it's

fully fermented. Fully fermented wines are always sugar-free because the yeast ate all the available sugar. Here's what's happening in commercial wines. First of all, as you know, we've already talked about, they don't use the wild native yeast. So the first thing they do is they press the juice into a tank and then they pour sulfur dioxide in it to kill the native yeast because they can't have the native yeast competing with the lab-grown yeast. So they use this chemical to kill the native yeast, and then they inoculate it with the lab-grown yeast, and then it ferments. Now, both fermenting processes are the same. There's a little device that goes in the tank.

It's a very pretty rudimentary device that's hanging in the tank that tells you exactly how much sugar is left in the wine. Right? So as it ferments, the sugar level goes down and down and down. Here's what's happening with commercial wines for a whole bunch of reasons. Once the sugar gets pretty low or lower, then they introduce sulfur dioxide again to the wine to kill the lab-grown yeast before it completes the fermentation, leaving what's known as RS in the industry, residual sugar behind in the wine. So that's how it gets sugar in it, is by stopping the fermentation process prior to it completing and the yeast eating all the available sugar. So it leaves this residual sugar behind in the wine.

That's done for a bunch of reasons. Well, Americans love sugar. But also, in addition to that, sugar gives wine mouthfeel. Sugar gives wine a long finish. Like, so, and so that's, you know, people talk, oh, that's got such a long finish. I mean, that's glycerol and sugar, right? You don't have that with dry, you don't have that with our you don't have that with our wines they don't have these they kind of just like break off they kind of drop because they don't have they don't have any sugar in them right so um

but they're also a part of that is that they taste lighter and fresher right because they don't have that kind of they don't have that afterness which which I don't want, right? They're also friendlier with food. Our wines are much friendlier with food. Just even lowering the alcohol down makes wines more food friendly. I mean, you don't have vodka with a salad, right? I mean, it's like, yeah, I mean, it's like alcohol and food are not paired well together. What pairs well is a lower alcohol wine, you know, and a wine that's fresher and lighter pairs better with food. Like even our red wines, we have many red wines that we call fish reds. I mean, they're so light and fresh that you could easily drink them and eat, eat it like a white flaky fish. And that

would be a great compliment to one another because the wine's just not that heavy, overburdened boldness and bigness and thickness and juiciness that you have with most conventional wines, right? And so that's how wine gets sugar-free or not sugar-free. It's the most common question we get. How are your wines sugar-free? Isn't there sugar in grape juice? There is, but that's the yeast job is to eat the sugar. And if it's allowed to fully ferment,

then you'll end up with a sugar-free wine. And again, some commercial wines are also sugar-free if they've been allowed to fully ferment. But the problem is you don't know which ones are and are not. And I can tell you this, we just recently tested the top 20 selling wines in the United states and only two of them met our criteria for sugar-free right so uh and some were lower in sugar but i just don't want to drink any sugar right same i'm in the same boat it's what initially drew me to dry farm wines because i was

looking for a no sugar wine and i didn't want all the additives and I wanted it to be organic without the pesticides and everything else in there so then okay maybe I was getting it confused is it true that conventional wines like some of them in order to get a specific they have for lack of a better word like a recipe so is that additives or something that they add in in order to kind of keep that flavor profile going? Well, you've got all kinds of additives that create texture and body or color. You know, in red wines, Americans believe that the darker red wine it is, the better, the higher the quality is. Well, I'd say there's no truth to that. In fact, just the opposite is probably more likely true. But Americans like a dark, thick wine. And so they're, you know, the number one selling additive to make wine darker is called mega purple. Right? that wines are left super long on the skin that we believe creates an inferior product,

but it is darker. So the wine's darker, but they make me feel bad, right? And so these heavy extracted wines that have been left on to macerate for super long periods of time, and the primary reason for that is to get more tannin and more body and more structure and darker color to the wine, right? Because the longer it stays on the skin, the darker it's going to be, right? And then you can use color agents that you've ever, I don't know if you've ever experienced to see people get purple teeth

or purple lips from drinking wine. That's usually from a color agent. You won't get that from our wines. Wines don't make your teeth red. Wow. Right. And so, or purple. They don't really turn red.

They turn purple. Right? And that generally is from a color agent. Right? That's been added to the wine. Wow. And so, this is, you know, the problem is there's just no transparency. Yes.

You know, what we'd love to see is contents labeling and nutritional information on a wine bottle right i would love that we publish yeah we publish our lab tests for every wine we publish them to the public right so yeah yeah i mean and that's really um ultimately what it comes down to is the transparency and we're we're now messing with nature and getting a inferior product when we could just be cultivating it you know with the farming practices and everything and getting a better product I mean I can tell you that the wines that I've gotten from dry farm wines are some of the best wines I've ever drank just taste wise I don't have a hangover the next day you can you literally can just taste the cleanness of it

comparably to other wines. I don't feel like I have this kind of like film in my mouth afterwards. Right. I mean, it's occasionally, not often, but I occasionally do. It's super nice that you have a lot of experience with our wines because i occasionally not often but occasionally i get interviewed on a podcast from um someone who's never drank our wines oh wow yeah it doesn't happen often but a couple two or three times a year which is a little bit weird because you know they don't really understand they don't understand it you know, they don't really understand. They don't understand it. You know, but, but, but if it's, but if you've had that experience, then, then you understand. But anyway, I know we're coming up on time. Yeah. Any, any final question? No, I mean, we really, wow, you covered everything that I

wanted to cover. That was so informative. And I'm just so grateful that you were able to come on, come on today and just speak about all this. I think it's so important that people hear this and, um, I hope it will, I hope someday we can change the way that we, that we label wines. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Um, I do have a special offer for your guests today. Oh, thank you. Uh, yeah. So we can, we give them a penny bottle of wine. We can't give alcohol away for free, but for one penny, we give them a penny bottle of wine. We can't give alcohol away for free, but for one penny, they can get an extra bottle of wine with their order. And all they have to do is go to the following link, which will be where that offer is found. And so it's dryfarmwines.com forward slash realfoodology.

So easy to find. But anyway, thanks for having me on the show today. It was a great time and, and we could talk a lot longer about this stuff, but, but I know we're coming up and I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me today. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. This was great. Thanks again for listening to this week's episode of the real food ology podcast. The show is produced and mixed by Drake Peterson and Christopher McCone of Peterson McCone

Productions. Hit them up if you guys have any podcast needs. They are amazing. My theme music is by the singer Georgie. Please subscribe, rate, and comment on either Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any major podcast platform. If you want to find me on IG, my handle is RealFoodology. See you guys next week. You won't think twice about me, or even I like to be happy, happy, happy every day I like to be happy, happy, happy every day I like to be happy, happy, happy every day I like to be happy, happy, happy every day I know that is funny