Realfoodology - All About Men’s Health and Hormones with Candace Burch

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

82: Candace Burch is a Hormone Health Educator with a Masters in Health Education and over 25 years of experience in the field. In 2017, she founded Your Hormone Balance as a one-on-one consulting practice, and is now joined by her two daughters, Ryan and Jess, who have expanded YHB's reach to women around the worldCandace has combined evidence based natural rebalancing strategies with targeted education to help women and men around the world "get back to balance!" Today's episode is all about men’s health and more specifically their hormones! We address signs and symptoms of low testosterone and hormonal imbalance, why healthy levels of testosterone are important for men, what contributes to low T and what you can do to raise T naturally! Show Links: Eugene Shippen http://DrGeo.com Further Listening: Everything You Need To Know About Women's Hormones What Your Doctor Didn't Tell You About the Pill, Cramps & Hormones Check Out Candace: $50 discount REALFOODOLOGY yourhormonebalace.com Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology

On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. When you're testing, when a male is testing, just as important as testing testosterone is estrogen. So a typical test for a male should include testosterone and estrogen levels, even progesterone and the stress hormone and DHEA, of course, because that is the hormone that breaks down to produce testosterone. And then the stress, of course, because that is the hormone that breaks down to produce testosterone.

And then the stress hormones as well. Because one of the biggest problems with men is that estrogen levels can become too high. It may not have to do with the amount of, you know, these so-called deficiency of testosterone may not have to do as much with the amount of testosterone a man is producing, but it may have to do more with the amount of estrogen he is producing. Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Swan, and today's episode is all about men's hormones, more specifically testosterone, but we get into all the hormones. You will

probably recognize today's guest. Candice Birch was on not too long ago to talk all about women's hormones. And I brought her back on today to specifically address men's hormones. She is a hormone health educator with a master's in health education and over 25 years of experience in the field. In 2017, she started Your Hormone Balance as a one-on-one consulting practice and her two daughters, Ryan and Jess, joined her who helped expand Your Hormone Balance's reach to women all around the world. Candice has combined evidence-based natural rebalancing strategies with targeted education to help women and men around the world get back to balance. I also had my podcast producer,

Drake, join us because I wanted to have a male voice in the conversation to ask any questions that I may not think of to address. So you'll hear him pop in with a couple of questions. If you're wondering who the male voice is, that is Drake, my podcast producer. So what do we go over? We talk about everything having to do with males hormones we talk about signs and symptoms that your hormones may be imbalanced why are healthy levels of testosterone important for men signs of low testosterone we talk about foods diets supplements lifestyle that help maintain healthy levels of testosterone and more importantly why we're seeing an epidemic of low testosterone in males. And if you're a woman, I highly recommend sticking around and listening to this whole episode. It is

really fascinating, especially even more so if you have a man in your life. It's just good to know these sort of things and to be aware of what could be affecting men's health. And I do want to take a moment to say this really quickly. I think it's so interesting because we often just think about testosterone as, uh, you know, through the lens of sex and male performance, but testosterone has so many other roles in the body. Um, it can contribute to creativity, intellect, drive assertiveness. It of course, obviously regulates male sex drive, um, and women as well. I think we forget that women also have testosterone. It's just in much lower quantities. And it also helps with sperm production and quality. And then of course, sex performance, but it's interesting to hear about testosterone from

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to dive into the world of men's hormones for anyone that missed our last episode. Well, first of all, go back and listen to it, but also Candice, can you give everyone a little bit of a background on what you do? Well, I'm, I have a master's degree in health education, which I got years ago in the seventies when I had lots of problems with my knees and my, I had swollen knees and all kinds of problems because I was a skier. I was just a, you know, constantly doing athletics and hurting myself.

And so I got really interested in what can I do naturally to alleviate some of my aches and pains? Cause I didn't want to be getting shots of cortisone all the time, which decreased the immune system. I got real involved and I was living in Aspen, Colorado, started a little organization called AHA, Aspen Holistic Health Association, and was just really into health and what can we do to stay healthy? And I ended up getting this master's. And then when I went into menopause, which was about the time my daughters were, my daughter Jess had just gotten her know, hormones affect our moods, our memory, our bodies, our, you know, our mental state. And I just really got to specializing in that by working at, I got to, I, I, I'll make a long story short. I read an important book by Dr.

John R. Lee, which is called What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause. And he was an MD who had a lot of breast cancer in his practice in Mill Valley. He went to England to study with a doctor there who is actually the doctor that defined PMS and put PMS on the medical map. She published the first paper on PMS. She was a woman who'd had migraines all her life, a physician. The first time she was pregnant, realized she hadn't had any migraines. And so she started studying hormone levels and wrote papers on progesterone and estrogen and the balancing powers of natural hormones. So Dr. Lee went to study with her and came back, never had another

case of breast cancer in his practice after he started using natural hormones and lifestyle changes and nutrition. And I called him up and said, I want to learn from you. I want to study with you. And he said, well, I'm retiring, but you know, there's a, there's a very important hormone testing lab in Beaverton, Oregon. I lived in Oregon, called Dr. David Zava. And I ended up being the director of education at ZRT lab for like 12 years. HRT was very harmful to women, causing breast cancers and increased heart risk and, you know, blood stroke, doubling of stroke levels, et cetera. So it was really a heady time when the whole, the approach to healthcare kind of moved into functional medicine, looking for the root cause of things, moved into nutrition, moved into how do we get off all these toxins in our environment.

So that's the world I inhabit. I've learned from the pioneers in the field, from biochemists. I've worked with compounding pharmacists and functional medicine doctors for years. I'm not myself a doctor, but I consider myself an educator passing on what I've learned and what I know. And I think a lot of it is about education. It's becoming aware of your symptoms of imbalance, knowing that there is such a thing as an imbalance and that the awareness is the main important part. And then what do you do about it? So that's my story. I'm still doing it with Your Hormone Balance, our little consulting firm, where we talk to women and men about their

test their hormone levels, talk to them about the results, and then suggest ways forward that are natural and usually very helpful. That's amazing. You know, I think it's funny that there's so much conversation around women's hormones that I think sometimes people forget that hormones also affect men as well, because there's so much more of a conversation around hormones with women, which is why I wanted to do this episode directly on men's hormones to kind of address questions and concerns maybe that men have. So I find this such an interesting topic right now. So I was actually just telling Drake right before we started on this call. I, I have a lot of guy friends that are talking about this right now,

and all of them are getting their testosterone levels checked because, uh, we have an epidemic of low testosterone in males that they're seeing in early as like college age males. And I want to bring this to people's attention and also talk about like some, why don't we, first of all, um, why don't we, I want to address why we think that's happening, but first of all, why is it so important? Uh, why is testosterone and males hormones in general so important for their health? Okay. So first of all, testosterone is not, it's not exclusive to men, men and women share

all the same hormones, but female, the dominant hormone in a female that really drives our, our behaviors and, and, and all the growth of, you know, our female organs, et cetera, is estrogen. While for men it's testosterone. So we share the same hormones. We need them for the same reasons, but women have much smaller amounts, lower amounts of testosterone and DHEA, which is the other androgen that is the actual precursor of testosterone. So androgens are male hormones. Andro is the word in Greek for male. And the androgens are the main drivers of the, you know, the macho in the, in M, the M and the macho in the male species. And, you know, they're, they're key to what we think of as the male, not a stereotype, but what is true about men. They have heavier bones, they have heavier muscles,

they, stamina, endurance, drive, all of those things are supported and maintained by testosterone. Testosterone is the hormone that builds and maintains bone density. So it's an anabolic hormone. It builds and maintains bone density, lean muscle mass, metabolic rate, strength, stamina, endurance, the competitive drive, the sex drive. Testosterone is even related to cognition. So men that are feeling, and women too, that are feeling foggy brained, can't think straight, can't concentrate or process information well or focus, that can be a testosterone deficiency, signs of a testosterone deficiency. So the role of these hormones is really structural.

And it's mental, physical, and emotional, really. But for men, the testosterone is very key. But having said that, all of these hormones interact. Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, DHEA, and the stress hormones, cortisol, all interact. It's a very delicate interplay. They all affect each other. They often use the analogy of the orchestra, or I think of synchronized swimmers. Whatever they do, one affects the other. If one instrument

is playing out of tune, the whole symphony is off, right? So even with men, it's not just about testosterone. It's the main hormone, it's the main driver, but it is reliant and dependent on the levels of other hormones that are involved. So when we test, we want to look at those other hormone levels as well as testosterone. So for someone listening who thinks that they might have low testosterone or just an overall imbalance, like you were talking about, what would they do? What kind of tests would they ask their, their physician for? And then you'll, and then contesting can confirm your symptoms by, you know, measuring your levels. And then we match to have a lowering of bone density. We'll have a loss of lean muscle or a lack of lean muscle. And that's where men start to notice fat. Fat always rushes in to

replace a lack of lean muscle. Men think of libido first, but structure is just as important. Having aches and pains, poor tolerance for exercise, not recovering well after exercise, and getting injured easily. Those sorts of things are going to be all very reflective of a lowering testosterone level. And then also, of course, low libido, erectile dysfunction, and poor cognition, as I mentioned, not being able to focus or concentrate. And even with testosterone and DHEA, they're both sort of associated with a zest for living. Like in, you know, men, when they get into menopause, which is not menopause, andropause, when they get into their forties and what they start to notice is this kind of slow slide. All those things that I mentioned before may be

happening. And then also they don't have the enthusiasm that they used to have or would like to have for the things that they enjoy. They may get really grumpy and crabby. And some of the studies have shown the HIM study, hypogonadism in males, hypogonadism refers to low testosterone, which by the way, they found in over 45% of men over 40, that men who are in that place where their hormones may be becoming imbalanced, either because of age or poor health habits, et cetera, and we'll talk about that, don't often report their symptoms. They just think they're getting old, you know, or that they, and so it's good to hear, as you say, that a lot of the guys you know are wanting to test their levels. And yes, they can be tested.

They can be tested in saliva, which is the camp that I'm in, because saliva tests what we call bioavailable levels that have left the bloodstream and moved into the tissue, into the cells of the body where hormones attach to receptor sites and do their thing. Blood tests are standard, but they don't tell us everything we need to know about an active level, you know, how much is actually active at the cellular level. But there is a blood test that can be done that measures a binding protein that binds up testosterone and makes it unavailable. And that can be done in a blood test and that's important information. So men can test either saliva or what we do at ZRT, we have a test through ZRT that we can either do saliva levels or a blood spot where you prick

your finger, drop blood drops on a card, they dry, and then they are rehydrated and tested in the lab as a, as a blood test. So there are a couple of ways to go about testing levels. Okay. Amazing. Um, I was also, so I feel like, uh, testosterone is so much, there's so much conversation around, uh, sex and sperm. Actually, this is a great point that I wanted to bring up, though. If anyone is having any sort of trouble getting pregnant, you should also have your man test his testosterone because it's also directly contributed to sperm production and quality, right? And even the motility, too, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And I should have mentioned when, when you're testing, when a male is testing, just as important as testing testosterone is estrogen. So a typical

test for a male should include testosterone and estrogen levels, um, even progesterone and the stress hormone and DHEA, of course, because that is the hormone that breaks down to produce testosterone and then the stress hormones as well. Because one of the biggest problems with men is that estrogen levels can become too high. It may not have to do with the amount of, you know, these so-called deficiency of testosterone may not have to do as much with the amount of testosterone a man is producing, but it may have to do more with the amount of estrogen he is producing or the amount, which is a whole conversation. Well, I was just going to say, let's talk about why that's happening right now. So, um, I can contribute a little bit to this

because I know one of the driving forces of that is all of the phytoestrogens in our food. So soy, uh, all the plastic exposure, especially when you heat up plastics, the thing about like heating up, uh, just like a water bottle. If it sits in your car for too long, it's getting heated up by the sun. Um, uh, there's a guy, I, so this guy that I was dating was getting these big plastic tubs delivered to his house, um, and then placing it into a filtered thing. And I was like, you got to get rid of that. Like you were exposing yourself to so much plastic. That's going to cause your estrogen levels to become out of balance. They're so weird just being inundated by it. products, any sort of like fragranced body

washes or deodorants, or even just like actual fragrance the guys are wearing all of that. That's a hugely important. Those are what you're describing as there are phytoestrogens and the plant-based food. Men do not want to eat too much soy or flaxseed because soy is, has as a phytoestrogen, it's a plant-based estrogen that can actually occupy the receptor site for a, for a testosterone, you know, it can, it can block testosterone being taken up by the cells because of this excessive estrogen. And also what I was going to comment on with xenoestrogen, what you're talking about overall, the toxins in the polycarbonate bottles that break down and leach these estrogens into the water. These are xenoestrogens. They're in BPA. They're in the

lining of cans, all the stuff you mentioned. They're in the sales receipts, the ink, they're why we want to switch to glass water bottles or BPA-free, why we do not want to microwave our food in plastic or heat it in plastic or store it in plastic. All of these things tend to break down into a type of estrogen, which we call xeno. Xeno is foreign. Everything you described, Courtney, these are foreign estrogens, foreign to the body, unnatural to the body. That's what the word xeno means. So they're unfamiliar, but they're very effective mimickers. They mimic the action of estrogen to the point that they can actually occupy that cell, that cell receptor site. So if we're getting a whole load of fake estrogens that are way more potent than a

naturally occurring estrogen, especially in a man's body, then we've got an excess of estrogen, which is going to increase something called sex hormone binding globulin, which is a protein that binds up available testosterone. So you've got a couple, it's like a vicious circle. You've got estrogen rising, which is automatically, you know, these things are like seesaws. One goes up, the other goes down. They're mutually interdependent. And then you've got this increase in sex hormone binding globulin.

You also have a lot of men that I have talked to seem to have a love of dairy products or drink a lot of milk, especially guys that are very athletic. They seem, or maybe it's a comfort food for them. I don't know. But when you think about it, this is an important thing to point out because milk is, you know, cows are milked constantly. So their estrogen levels remain high all the time. Cow's milk is particularly high in estrogen.

And if you're using a cow's milk that is loaded with a xenoestrogen like RBST to make the cows produce even more milk, then you're getting even more estrogen. And I've tested guys that are, you know, really high in estrogen and really high in sex hormone binding globulin, the SHBG I mentioned, we can test that. And so correlating to that, you're going to see a low testosterone level. So, you know, guys need to lay off too much soy and they need to watch the dairy products, especially those that are, you know, guys need to lay off too much soy and they need to watch the dairy products, especially those that are, you know, that don't say on the label that we are hormone free. You know, those things can be, and then everything you talked about, you know,

all the toxins, because men use fragrances and aftershave lotions and all kinds of stuff. You know, we're slathering all kinds of things on our bodies all the time. And we know with, with cosmetics and the beauty industry, the cosmetic safety act hasn't been updated in 80 years. There's something like 1400 chemicals that are allowed in these products that men and women put all over their bodies that have chemicals in them that are not even allowed in Europe, But in this country, oh, they're fine, you know, just load it up. And half the time, they're not even disclosed. They're not listed in the ingredients. And there's no responsibility on the part of the manufacturer to say, oh, you know, we've got traces of hormones in here,

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slash RealFoodology and use code RealFoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's o r g a n i f i.com slash real food ology. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that that to me is one of the biggest concerns right now, because I don't think people understand the influx of things that they are being exposed to on a daily basis until you really break it down. And then you think about it. And you're like, Oh, wow, all of this stuff is affecting my health in many ways. So outside of what we just talked about, what are some other things that are contributing to this epidemic of low testosterone? I know one of them is a lack of sleep and more stress. Is there anything else that we didn't go over that could be contributing to that? Well, in younger men, I think there are a couple of things. And

then, I mean, there were studies about there's so much estrogen in the water supply, you know, all of these toxins that we talked about. And then also the estrogens that are, you know, the estrogen patches and estrogen pills that are flushed down the toilet that somehow get into the estrogenizing of fish has been documented in scientific journals. And there's an estrogenizing there's so, you know, we are living in a sea of estrogens. And so that is one of the, you know, one of the big reasons. And so it's important to take in the water, sorry, birth control, birth control to birth control pill all of that everything women are you know we're peeing out all of this so it's it is somehow making its way into our tissues and that's i think

one of the reasons that younger men may find that they have symptoms of testosterone deficiency but also of the men that i've spoken to over the years and many of them are the partners of you know they're a boyfriend or a fiance or a husband of a woman who's concerned, you know, we girls make the, we make 80% of the health decisions, right? So we want, a lot of these women have wanted their husbands or significant others to get tested. And often when I talk to younger men, let's say under 40, who are not in andropause, that's a whole nother story. But under 40, there should be healthy levels of these hormones being produced. But outside of the things we've already talked about, stress, as you just touched on, is

major. And stress kind of becomes an overused word. We got stress, everybody's stressed, you know, I'll sleep when I stress kind of becomes an overused word. We got stressed, everybody's stressed, you know, I'll sleep when I die kind of thing. But that's the attitude that a lot of younger men have. It's like, we're going to make our mark now. We're highly competitive. We're in high performing jobs. We're, we're working a lot, even during COVID, you know, people are overcompensating. And there, there is that mentality that says the more work, the better. The more money I can make if I have to work 20 hours a day. And this isn't that uncommon. And I was reading an

article in the New York Times just the other day about this great resignation, all these people quitting their jobs because they've had it with these bosses that expect them to be ready to communicate at three in the morning. Or, you know, these are the kinds of things that interrupt sleep, which is a chronic stressor. And, you know, I'm not talking about, not all stress is bad. There's good stress. There's, you know, there's getting married and having children and raising children and a great job, a job you love. It may be high performing. You may love your career, but it may be stressful. Nevertheless, Christmas, birthdays, being with in-laws, you know, it's all, it's all stuff we have to, we have to deal with on a daily basis, but it's the, all the overwords, overwork, over-exercising, over-commitments, being overbooked, you know, and, and just jacked up and revved up and, and, and depleting adrenal

strength to the point where you can't get out of bed in the morning. The thing is when the adrenals are jacked up and having to perform constantly on a really high demand basis because this guy is working out six days a week, which many people are, high intensity workouts all the time, which have their, they have their benefits, but not six, seven days a week. You know, so all of those extremes of exercise and diet cause, can cause an imbalance of adrenal cortisol. The adrenals are these little, you know, they're like little buffers. What is that word when you stoke a fire? Bellows. They're constantly working. They're sitting on top of the kidneys, working to manage

the stress response, working hard to produce enough fuel for your body from the foods you eat and to meet the stress demand, to regulate the sleep-wake cycle. They have a huge job to perform and they can actually get overloaded, taxed, and start to underperform so that now we've got high wonky levels of cortisol. We've got high levels because we're not, because we're under, the adrenals are under constant demand and those levels may remain high at night, which interrupts sleep, disrupts the sleep wake schedule, which is, you know, another thing the adrenals have to try to regulate. So once the cortisol pattern, which should be highest in the morning, people should wake up in the morning with a high cortisol level and kind of bound out of bed ready for their day.

But how many people are doing that? How many people are dragging out of bed in the morning, don't have the energy, don't feel rested? That's a number one symptom of adrenal fatigue. And, you know, a lot of guys are in that place where their adrenals are just taxed, but they keep pushing through. Then this is exacerbated by caffeine and which is like a whip to the adrenals and energy drinks. And, you know, the overtraining that I was discussing and muscle boosting, muscle boosting supplements that can actually be a drain on the adrenals. So there's a lot of things that men do need to be aware of in terms of what's causing these problems. And then there's andropause. And a lot of younger men go into

that midlife dip in hormones, which is to be expected around 45. But a lot of guys are entering that earlier because of this excessive stress level that they're, you know, that they're maintaining that they think they're maintaining, but actually their moods may be suffering. Their libido may be suffering their ability to stay strong and to feel strong and to feel on top of their game mentally and physically may also be suffering. What else is happening in the body with andropause? I've literally never heard of andropause in my entire life. And what I mean, and why isn't that more talked about? You know, this always amazes me when I know well, for first, first of all, there's a lot

more attention paid to women on this front because menopause is, you know, you know, the word menopause and it's, you know, it is a more dramatic decline of hormones as we get into our mid forties. It's inevitable. Our ovaries pack up and we're not making hormones like we used to. And we really feel the effects in a very emotional, dramatic way. In fact, a lot of men think that, you know, menopause is what it's all, they just think, oh, how do we deal with this woman I'm married to, or I'm with, you know, what's her problem? Instead of concentrating on looking at his own problems

in that andropause is not something men are immune to. It is the pause in androgen hormones. And that is to be expected as you get into your mid forties, the testes start to decline in their production of testosterone, just as the ovaries and women start to decline in their production of estrogens. But what's interesting is that in women, estrogen starts to decline along with progesterone, which is even more dramatic for women. But testosterone kind of stays steady. In men, testosterone starts to decline and estrogen starts to stay kind of steady. So even though men had a lower level of estrogen in the beginning and a higher level of testosterone, as they get older, that ratio starts to shift and that's called andropause. And so the changes are related to higher estrogen and lower testosterone. So that

means you said, what else is happening in the body? All the things I talked about that are hallmark symptoms of testosterone deficiency. At the same time, the symptoms of too much estrogen may be that we're gaining weight. The male maybe start to gain weight in his upper arms, in his legs, in his thighs, and in his breast tissue. You know, we've heard the term moobs male when you see when you see a man with you know literally moobs male boobs i know that sounds disrespectful but my god what was i watching the other day some men are, you just look at them and go estrogen dominant. Oh my God. You know, this is any, any kind of, because estrogen is a growth hormone.

So it is going to grow tissue. That's what made women's breasts. And when men have too much estrogen, you'll see that you'll also see, you know, just a weight gain is a problem. And also feeling men feeling more emotional, you know, more maybe tearing up at commercials, just feeling more, maybe a little bit more affectionate, maybe wanting to go shopping with their wife and hold her purse. I don't know, you know, that sort of thing. Men start to get less ambitious and hard edged and the edges start to soften. So that's kind of a good thing. But at the same time, estrogen, because it's a growth hormone, can begin to grow the prostate gland. And that's where you hear about men, especially in their forties and as they get older through andropause, as the estrogen rises and testosterone goes down, if we don't get a handle on that, then the prostate gland can be enlarged. And that's,

a problem with, it can become, there's something called BPH, benign prostate hypertrophy, which isn't as dangerous as actual prostate cancer. But the signs of that are increased urination, decreased flow, having to get up in the night and urinate, that sort of thing, decreased erectile dysfunction, erections that aren't as firm, that kind of thing is what men should be looking for if they're looking for the symptoms of too much estrogen and not enough testosterone. They really go together. They're two sides of the same coin. Yeah. You're talking about having high estrogen. Can you also have low estrogen? Is that something to be concerned about?

Or is that not really an issue? No, that's a good question. You can have, I mean, women, for a lot of women in menopause, the typical problem is, you know, they all think everybody talks about estrogen deficiency. Usually there's more estrogen dominance. And that is the situation with both men and women because of this predominance of estrogenic substances in our environment that Courtney was mentioning, the xenoestrogens. So that's more of a problem actually than low estrogen, but low estrogen is

certainly also very significant and is usually an issue associated with in women. It's to do with, you know, long-term use of birth control, things that have suppressed ovarian production and long-term use of, you know, exposure to these xenoestrogens that have depleted our own estrogen production. So that's what can happen to men as well. If you're getting a load of xenoestrogens in there that are mimicking your own estrogens and actually kind of kicking them out, displacing the natural estrogen with a chemical toxic estrogen, that can on a test result look

like a low estrogen in that male because it's not a real estrogen. And that can affect bone loss just as much as low testosterone. Estrogen is also associated with bone building and also heart health. Both testosterone and estrogen in males is crucial to heart health. In fact, the heart being a muscle has more testosterone receptors in it than any other muscle in the body. So yeah, I mean, lows or highs of any hormones in particular, when you're looking at them together in, in a test result, because you're testing all of them together and you're able to see what is high, what is low, you know, what's the ratio between these things. And that can be really significant in terms of what are the specific symptoms, you know, what's the ratio between these things. And that can be really significant

in terms of what are the specific symptoms that you're, you're experiencing, or what are your health risks at this point in time? And, you know, good, good way to take steps to good way to shed light on what's going on inside, since none of us us really know unless we test and pull back the, you know, the cover and see, uncover these things, see what's happening and what we need to do to turn things around. I mean, in a certain sense, andropause is something that, you know, like I said, over 45% of men in this country are in a state of andropause, which really has to do with these low testosterone, high estrogen levels. And that's to be expected, but still the extent to which these hormones are low or high, the pace at which they are diminishing or rising, all of these

things are important to take into consideration. And all of these things give us options for making adjustments. And there's plenty that can be done, actually. And I think one of the, not to lose the stress, the stress conversation, supporting the adrenals, and is probably a first step for younger men. And for all of us really, because as we get older, the adrenals have to take over all hormone production when the ovaries and the testes kind of start packing their bags and moving on, they don't become exactly defunct, but they're not giving us adequate levels to be on, you know, to be feeling the way we want to

feel, which usually everybody wants to feel still strong and sharp and, you know, on top of their game. And that gets tougher as we get older, if we don't address the hormones. Yeah. Well, and I think it's important to note here too, because we, we often hear this story of, you know, Oh, as you age, it's just inevitable. You're going to have less energy. of, you know, oh, as you age, it's just inevitable. You're going to have less energy. And, you know, we kind of start listing off all these symptoms and just blame it on aging. And what I really like to talk about and shed light on this is that, yes, of course, as you age, things don't work as well. And our body is not functioning at optimal ranges anymore. But I also think that it's important to say that there are a lot of things that people can do

instead of just saying, oh, you know, just chalking it up to age. There's a lot of things that we can do to support our hormones, to support our overall health, and we don't have to just throw in the towel and be like, oh, I'm just old and things aren't functioning anymore. So why don't we, let's talk about some things that people can do, um, you know, diet related supplements, lifestyle, things that they can do to help maintain healthy levels of testosterone or to even boost it if they have kind of low T. Okay. So let's, yeah, there's, there's a lot. Okay. So let's start with the stress, the stress hormones, cortisol to keep, to keep those in balance.

When we're talking about lifestyle issues that I'm not sure I mentioned that when cortisol is high, it decreases testosterone levels. So it's, it's that seesaw effect, a high chronically high cortisol is going to diminish natural production of testosterone. Stress hormones rule. They take over if that's what's happening. If, if stress to, you know, extreme stress becomes a way of life and take center stage in life, then we're not going to be making a lot of testosterone. So that's where, um, that's where adrenal support comes in. And adrenal support is a holistic thing, really. Yes, you can take things that are really important to take, in fact, to support the adrenals, like

B-complex. A B-complex, a full-on B1 through B12 vitamin provides the B vitamins that are so important, actually cofactors in the breakdown of the glucose molecule. What is it? The Krebs cycle that teaches you, you know, these vitamins are cofactors and all these enzymatic interactions in the body. We have to have B vitamins for energy to help to assist the adrenals and the breakdown of food for energy. So a lot of people are deficient in bees because it's, you know, you got to get the bees and nutritional yeast, wheat germ, dark leafy green vegetables. How many people are eating that way? And how many people are not going, going, going all the time to the point where stress is diminishing and depleting those B vitamins like crazy, as does alcohol, lack of sleep. I'm talking about too much alcohol, caffeine, where we're drinking two, three cups of coffee

a day that's really too strong, perhaps. So all the stimulants that I mentioned and ongoing stressors like that, overtraining, which can be five, six days, seven days a week of high intensity training. Mind you, high intensity training is really important for increasing testosterone. And I'll talk about that in a minute. But if it's overdoing it to the point of exhaustion, then it is going to end up depleting adrenal strength as well.

And then, you know, the side effect of, of the, of the low testosterone. So there's this, there's keeping the, supporting the adrenals and keeping, you know, our lifestyle in check. So we go to bed at a decent hour. We're not on our computers and laptops before bed because the blue light is disrupting melatonin production. We know this now, although a lot of people don't know it, but melatonin production is absolutely disrupted by that blue light. So if you're sitting in your bed on your computer or your cell phone right before bed, you're going to be decreasing melatonin. And the two hormones that regulate that the actual sleep-wake cycle are cortisol and melatonin.

So melatonin should be high at night. Cortisol should be low. If we're decreasing melatonin, what gets high? Cortisol. Then we have the knock-on effect of high cortisol is decreasing testosterone at the end of the day. So we got to get the sleep in and that's a whole nother subject. What is keeping us from sleeping? But the blue light computer stuff the sleep in and that's a whole nother subject. What is keeping us from sleeping? But the blue light computer stuff on the TV, that's a major cause right before bed, exercising too much right before bed, eating spicy, sugary, you know, high carbohydrate, simple carbohydrates before bed is not going to be helpful in that realm. So it's sleep. It's our habits. It's our health habits and avoiding all those xenoestrogens that I talked about. And then there's something else

that's really important to understand. A lot of men, as they get older, start to gain weight because metabolism naturally does go down. And yes, as you said, these things, these hormones are inevitably going to decline. Some things are, but the extent to which this is experienced doesn't have to be, you know, so extreme. It doesn't have to be that we're rapidly aging and falling apart and just feeling like we're getting old. And as I said, men are famous for, they're notorious for thinking that, you know, it's just, I'm just getting older and that's, you know, live with it. So, you know, it's just that I'm just getting older and that's,

you know, live with it. So, you know, get used. My husband has said to me, get used to it. It's like, no, I'm not getting used to it. It's not that you're it's not that you don't have a memory. It's that you're not listening. You know, come on, be mine. He's like over here, preoccupied in his little brain. And he's and then it's like he never heard that. No. You know, He's like over here, preoccupied in his little brain. And he's, and then it's like, he never heard that. No, it, you know, it's like gotta be the whole idea of mindfulness, paying attention, not rushing through our food and our, you know, our lives to the extent that we're just in a, in a stress junkie state all the time. But what I wanted to say about overweight, that's another huge thing that's

really important for men to ideally watch their weight. Men are known to have major, there was a big study that talked about decreases in testosterone in men who have the standard American diet, you know, sad. So lots of red meat and too many carbs and too many of the simple variety, the simple carbs that don't have complex grains, et cetera. And, you know, too much alcohol, too much beer, all of the too much stuff, intake of soda and carbs and, and dairy, the dairy products that I was mentioning that all can cause overweight. And what it also does is, again, in fat cells, so the more overweight a male is as he gets older, or even if he's younger, fat cells actually contain an enzyme called aromatase. So the more fat cells you have,

the more aromatase your body makes. The problem with aromatase, especially for men, is that it increases the level of estrogen and in fact, churns out estrogen. So fat cells are major estrogen producers, but what do you think they're using as a precursor to convert into estrogen? Testosterone. Oh. So men need to understand that if they are carrying extra weight, the most important thing to do is to start looking at their habits of eating, inflammation, what's causing insulin resistance, et cetera, because those fat cells are churning out estrogen. So that's another example of where

you might have someone who's 35. He's making a good amount of testosterone. He's working out, building his muscles, doing all that, but he's overeating. He's drinking too much beer, let's say, or, you know, I don't want to sound judgmental here. I actually hate beer, but, you know, whatever it is that, whatever it is that's being overdone, that's causing weight gain, overeating, you know, just constantly eating snacks and, and, and not being mindful of what you're eating, eating too fast or on the go so that you're not actually digesting your food properly, it can lead to overweight and overeating. In fact, we can often be hardwired to crave sugars and carbs just because our cortisol is off. The cortisol,

the adrenals are wanting to fuel your body. And if there's constant demand, there's this, you're kind of hardwired to crave these foods, which leads to overeating, feeling hungry all the time, which just exacerbates this increased fat production in the cells and increased aromatase. So one of the major things that men who are overweight need to do is not only focus on a Mediterranean sort of diet, which again, for the fifth year in a row has been proclaimed the healthiest diet. And we know that it's mostly focused on, you know, veggies and fruits and whole, not as, you know, whole grains and not as much dairy or red meat, but more fish and fatty fish and good fats, of course. But also there's a magic ingredient that men need to know about, which is called zinc.

The mineral zinc is actually an aromatase inhibitor. So it's important for that knowledge to sink to sink in that if you're dealing with moobs or overweight or overeating problems or cravings one of the important things for men to do as they become more mindful of the diet they need to eat is to increase their their um, their zinc, their amount of zinc. So taking zinc supplements is recommended for men who have a low S high estrogen and low testosterone. It is usually recommended in like 30 to 50 milligrams a day. Um, over supplementing with zinc is not a good idea. Getting zinc in the foods you eat is a very good idea. So that's things like pumpkin seeds and cashews, oysters. So if you were going to

have a romantic night and you wanted to think about, let's get some zinc going and try to decrease that, you know, increase the stop that that conversion of my testosterone into estrogen, which men need to know men. One man said to me, does that mean I'm turning into a woman? Well, you know, to an extreme, but you know, have a little have have a plate of oysters, any kind of mollusks, like mussels and clams. And what are the things that are strong in zinc? Lamb, lean red meats, always grass fed, please. Yeah, the oysters, as you mentioned, eggs, pumpkin seed, cashews, chickpeas, those sorts of things. Have a bit of that at dinner, a little pomegranate juice or pomegranate seeds are, are shown to have some effect on testosterone levels, a beneficial effect.

Chocolate has a lot of zinc in it. So you could have a nice romantic, um, dinner, maybe Valentine's day of, of oysters, pomegranates, and chocolate. That sounds good. Yeah. And I actually, I will say, um, you've mentioned red meat a couple of times. And from what I've read, uh, like the, there's a lot of research surrounding that eating red meat is actually really good and testosterone boosting, especially if you eat the organ meats, but it needs to be organic grass fed meat in order for it to be healthy. Because a lot of the studies there's, there's a misconception that red meat is terrible for us. But all the studies that were done on red meat weren't they were not taking into factoring the lifestyle choices of the people that they

were studying, plus they were using factory farm meat. So it was, you know, hormones, antibiotics, everything else that was in that meat that was contributing to the unhealthiness of their subjects. Thank you for making a fine point on that because I didn't mean to sabotage red meat because red lean meat that is hormone free, look for the label that says these animals were raised without hormones and the label shouldn't say no added hormones. That's not good enough. It has to say raised without, but you're absolutely right. Red lean meats, grass fed, always lamb, et cetera. If you can eat a lamb, um, is, can be, can be very helpful. I was going to pivot a little bit, but I was just going to say, I read something recently that made me laugh. Well, I I've been

seeing, I've seen Dave Asprey talk about this a long time, but I didn't realize there was a connection to testosterone until recently. But a lot of men are talking about sending their balls now. As I said, really? I couldn't go without mentioning this because there's this one account that I follow where he literally talks about it once a week. And in the beginning of me following him, I just, I couldn't help but laughing every time I help but laugh every time I saw one of these posts, but he's been talking about it so much that, um, it's kind of stuck with me. And I wanted to ask your opinion on that. Apparently it's, um, really good for sperm production as well. Well, I hope, I don't know if you're, if he's posting photos, I'm not sure. I don't think that would be laughable, but no, I get it. I mean, it's interesting vitamin D vitamin D deficiency we know is rampant in this country.

Um, especially in climates where, you know, you have winter and the higher altitude climates. D deficiency is actually, there's an interesting study of the Framingham heart study that's been going since 1948, where they found that a deficiency of D is linked to a threefold increase in abdominal fat. And so abdominal obesity or central obesity, which is what a lot of men, they get that gut also. And that is a very dangerous kind of fat. It's a visceral fat that is deep in there, can surround vital organs and is just horribly inflammatory and it's deadly hazardous fat. So that alone right there is going to be decreasing testosterone levels. And D in general has been shown in studies

to, to, or, or I guess what they've looked at is D deficiency in men is linked with lower testosterone levels and healthy testosterone is linked with healthy vitamin D levels. And of course, the whole idea of light, getting light sunlight, which your friend is talking about is the best way to get vitamin D because it's really vitamin D isn't a vitamin. It's a hormone that is made by the action of sunlight upon the skin. So sunlight upon the testes, what, why not, you know, help if it's, what did you say the results are? I mean, he says it helps with sperm production, sperm quality, vitamin D, obviously, because if you, if you really think about it, those parts of our body are not exposed to the sun at all. That's true. That's important to, you know, it's a really

important point. And I think, and then not only that, just getting out in the sun, having true sunlight is, is a way to raise melatonin levels. And that's back to that other conversation about, especially in the morning, getting out in the morning light. I don't know what time he's sunning his nether regions, but you know, maybe in the morning would be the best time because then he could be killing two birds with one with one stone exactly two stones or two towns killing several birds with the two stones this is starting i don't know the free the free the testes movement like the free the nipple movement yeah save the test the testes. But no, but I think that that makes

perfect sense. I mean, that's, I mean, I thought I did, you know, all jokes aside, I did find it really interesting. Actually, it was pretty fascinating. And like I said before, you know, Dave Asprey, he's really into biohacking and he talks about it a lot. He's super into it. And so I just wanted to know what you thought about it. I don't know his, some of the things I wanted to mention, I've been talking about some of the things I'm talking about are in a great book called the testosterone syndrome by Eugene Shippen, which is kind of the Bible on this is one of the first books that was written to address male andropause and testosterone levels. Dr. Gio Espinoza, drgio.com is brilliant. He's actually, I have his, he is a naturopathic

functional medicine doctor, recognizes an authority in urology and men's health. So he's a really important guy for men that are concerned about their prostate or have any of those issues of urinary frequency and urgency. He's another great source for raising testosterone levels. And he talks about ginger, you know, besides zinc, zinc is just really important for men to be aware of. He talks about ginger actually as a supplement can be used to increase testosterone levels in men. DIM is something I should mention. DIM is an extract. It stands for dindolelmethane.

Don't need to remember that. But what it is actually is an extract of cruciferous vegetables. I know you know this, Courtney. We're talking about broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts. What else? You know, what's the other one? You named all the ones I remember. Oh yeah. Yeah. Those are the, those are the main ones. And, and eating more of those foods produces this enzyme, this, this active enzyme in those, in those vegetables that actually helps to clear the system of excess estrogens. So men who have too much estrogen and they're feeling, you know, even if they hadn't tested and they're just feeling the symptoms that we've talked about here,

or they have any of these visible signs of too much estrogen should start having, you know, I always say test first before you do, you know, before you start taking a bunch of things, but DIM can be very effective. It's been shown to help to metabolize hormones properly. There are three pathways for hormone metabolism in the body, and they're very crucial, which pathway these hormones metabolize down because some of them it's, it's, they're called detoxification pathways. So everything that we take in has to be metabolized, detoxified by the liver and excreted by the body. So these pathways are important and using something like DIM can promote proper estrogen metabolism down the right pathways. It can even get rid of

accumulated estrogens from accumulations of, you know, the toxins and the xenos that we were talking about. So I think that's a good one for men to know about. It's hard to kind of eat two pounds of vegetables with, you know, broccoli with every meal. So taking a DIM tablet can be one way to go about it. I have also seen a lot of discussion about boron and arginine, you know, boron being an essential mineral actually has, has been in some studies shown to increase testosterone and arginine also an amino acid, which is a precursor or it breaks down to nitric oxide. And nitric oxide pathways are what the Viagra people are pushing that, you know, they're pushing that down those pathways because it's all about enlarging the blood vessels, creating flow, blood flow and expansion, and that can help with erection problems, et cetera. So

there are lots of things. Also, I didn't mention DHEA as an actual topical cream or hormone. When you test, if those levels are low, then that's going to be a direct hit on your testosterone. If DHEA is low, we're not getting the action of that DHEA precursor, you know, producing, breaking down to testosterone. So it's possible to start supplementing with DHEA in men that can be 25 to 50 milligrams a day as a starting point to try to raise the testosterone levels naturally, you know, to raise naturally occurring levels by waking up the receptor sites and saying, hey, here's the precursor, let's, you know, let's

increase. So there are lots of supplements that I think, you know, it's important to do the research, to look at Dr. Gio Espinoza, read Dr. Axe online. If Dave Asprey is a good source, you know, start to study and read and see the difference between these things. Cause you can't just start taking a million things. And then that gets into testosterone supplementation also, which is another subject. So there were, there are two other things that I'm aware of that I just wanted to note that I've read have really helped men with their testosterone levels. One is doing cold plunges and also lifting heavy. So lifting like heavy weights apparently really helps support testosterone levels, both in men and women, if women are experiencing like too low testosterone.

But you mentioned something that I wanted to ask you before we wrapped up. How, what do you think about from a health perspective about men, um, supplementing with actual testosterone, like taking it as a, uh, hormone replacement replacement? Um, okay. I'm going to address that in a minute. I just wanted to tag onto what you said about exercise, really important what you said, because it's the heavy lifting. It's the using the larger muscles. So, you know, using actually, according to Dr. Espinoza, it's a waste of time to be putting too much emphasis on triceps and biceps. Much more important to be working the leg muscles, the hamstrings, the thighs, that sort of thing. And he talks about also not overdoing it. He mentioned some of the actual movements to make. He says squats, deadlifts, bench press, chin-ups, and pull-ups are the best exercises for men. And that all of

these things should be done in six sets, six reps with two minutes of rest in between. And the point he's making is that a lot of guys over exercise. And again, that gets into depleting, you know, increasing stress hormones. So all that vicious cycle, as far as supplementing with testosterone, I guess my point really here in mentioning all the importance of these other hormones is that it's not just about testosterone. So if you test and you find out that, you know, a male who's having some of these symptoms and thinking, oh, you know, my my sex drive is down. I got to go get some testosterone or I can't lift the weights I used to lift. I got to go get some testosterone. First thing to do is test, see what your levels are. You know, got to know how the adrenals are responding. That could be the reason that you don't have the strength. Got to know if there's too much estrogen going. And there may be steps

that one can take to lower the estrogen, increase adrenal support before we ever need to go to the testosterone. That's kind of a big gun. And one of the problems of testosterone supplementation can be that, you know, testosterone converts into estrogen. Not as I was saying, not only in fat cells, but that's the normal cascade. The way it works is DHEA goes to testosterone and then to estrogen in the body. So we, you know, if, if a man is supplemented with a ton of testosterone, which a lot of guys are doing and no, you know, no advice about how to keep the estrogen at bay, then he may be, he may be that bolus of testosterone that goes in as an injection or a pellet or a topical cream may well actually end up increasing estrogen levels because that conversion can

happen in the fat cells because that man is deficient in zinc because he's, he's, you know, he's counteracting everything he's trying to do by eating foods that are high in, in hormones or, you know, drinking too much alcohol or all of the things that we've talked about. So I think it has its place in, in the milieu and in, in an integrated way so that what we're really trying to do is mimic natural physiology. You know, to do one thing to the exclusion of others, you know, to try to supplement with all of this, just to jack yourself up to a level is going to result in a depletion and an imbalance of other hormones that will provide you with other symptoms you have to deal with and actually long-term not benefit you much at all. So I'm not saying

testosterone supplementation is a bad thing. I'm just saying it has to be done in concert with all these other considerations and never without testing. I think a lot of these clinics that are out there that prescribe for men are not testing men and they're not monitoring their levels with supplementation. And that's also crucial. If there's supplementation with the hormone, whether it's synthetic, which I would discourage or bioidentical, which is hormones made to mimic body's own hormone structure and function, these are still very potent substances and they need to be monitored with use. You know, not to mention a lot of men that are on testosterone supplements are,

you test their, you know, when I test couples, so often the woman of the pair has really high testosterone levels too. Because especially men that use topicals, they can, this can be transferred so easily on the bed sheets. If you don't use separate towels, it can be on the doorknobs, on the water taps. We've even seen children with high testosterone levels because they're sharing the bathroom, toweling and et cetera. So it's really important for men when they do supplement, especially with the topical to wash their hands carefully before they interact with other people.

Yeah. Well, that was a great point that you made about, um, not just immediately going after supplementing testosterone, but to test first to really see what's going on in your body, because you could be just putting a bandaid over what, you know, and ignoring an actual issue that's happening in the body that you could address in other ways. Well, you may have enough testosterone and that's not really the issue. Yeah. It may be that your testosterone is fine, but your estrogen is too high or your zinc's too low or your cortisol is too high. You know, why wouldn't you want to rule those things out first? Exactly. Well, before we go, is there anything else that we haven't covered?

Or Drake, do you have any other questions that we haven't gone over? Is there anything kind of that we need to address? I have one question. I'm curious, can you be born with low or high hormones? And is that something that's like passed on from the mother, or is it like a genetic thing or is that not been studied very much? You know, I think definitely it can be, I think if a, you know, when a woman is pregnant in,

in utero, all these hormones are really in high amounts, especially progesterone, which is also, I should have mentioned progesterone. That's the hormone that balances estrogen. And sometimes it can be used to keep testosterone from breaking down into a more toxic or potent form of testosterone that actually causes male baldness and enlargement of the prostate. So progesterone is really high in utero. And it's possible in women that are pregnant that are getting all these xenoestrogens into their system through not heating, all this that we've been talking about can produce a baby that is high in these levels. But that's a great question. And I bet there is more research out there than I can refer to right now. But definitely, that's something that I think men can be, you know, when we talked about the estrogenizing

of male hormones, that's certainly a big discussion around the plethora of estrogens, not only in the mother's body, but in the environment. So I think in both ways, yes, that could happen. I don't know about high testosterone, men being born with a higher testosterone level, but I do know that some men have naturally high testosterone levels and maybe there's something in utero that goes on there. I'll have to look into that further because that's a really good question, Drake. All right. And then I have one more. I just actually had my hormones tested and I see that there's testosterone and then also free testosterone. What is the free testosterone? So free testosterone is what you're measuring when a hormone is at the cellular level. I was talking about that in saliva testing.

We measure what we call bioavailable or free testosterone. So that means that the hormone has become unbound or free of its cell because hormones are bound to a red blood cell by a binding protein. And it's only when the body, you know, the pituitary is sending messages, hey, he's working out, he needs more testosterone on board to lift these weights. Let's send, let's release some testosterone from the bloodstream into the tissues. So when you measure testosterone as a total level, you're looking at the level of testosterone in the bloodstream, but you're not looking at the free active level. Free is actually equates to active, more active, more indicative of,'s happening, what's at work in the body,

and is going to match more closely with your symptoms. So most tests should be looking at the free level. We use ZRT testing, and in the ZRT test, if you do saliva, you're measuring that free level because you're measuring, we're capturing it in saliva. It's already left the bloodstream. If you do a dried blood spot, what we measure is the way we measure the free level is by measuring the sex hormone binding globulin, that SHBG I mentioned that binds up active testosterone. So in that sense, you're looking at, is my SHBG level high? Then your testosterone level, your free testosterone is going to be low because it's being bound up by your SHBG. Does that make sense?

So you can look at it both ways. You can look at free that's in a saliva test, or you can look at it as the binding protein. Are we all bound up with that binding protein and there's not enough available? And there's also urine testing too that looks at metabolites of hormones and can give you some clues about how much total versus free testosterone you have. But it's really important to measure the free levels. That's going to tell you a whole lot more. Great. Thank you. Yeah. And I should mention, Courtney, we always like to provide your listeners with the discount. We can provide a $50 discount on any of the tests that we do.

And what did we use before the code? If you use a code, Courtney? Yeah. I think we used code real foodology last time. So if we can do that again. Yeah, we can use that again for that $50 discount on testing. And I really hope you have some men that are really perking up their ears and realizing this is such an important thing to get a handle on. And, you know, we are all the ages we're ever going to be when you're 25, 30, and you feel you're on top of the world and words like andropause just don't

resonate and have any interest for you. But I, you know, I've learned as I've gotten older, that it's so important to think of yourself as all the ages you're going to be, who will I be when I'm 40, when I'm 50? How do I want to feel? How strong and what do I want my life to be like? And how do I envision myself? And that means starting now. It doesn't mean running yourself down and running on empty when you're young, because you somehow have the stamina to do that, but it's going to pay off in long-term consequences. So now is the time to start thinking about these things. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that. And it's also just about quality of life, right? I mean, no one wants to go through life feeling drained of energy and sick all the time with brain fog, et cetera. And so, um, that's,

that's what I always like to remind people is do you want to go through life feeling really good,, do you want to go through life feeling really good? Or do you want to go through life feeling like crap all the time? It's really up to you. And you know, I think a lot of people have forgotten how good they used to feel. Yeah. A lot of people become their symptoms. They start to just go with it, you know, coexist with their symptoms. This is the way I am.

I'm always tired, crabby, flabby, sweaty, itchy, you know, whatever it is. And, and just kind of think this is the normal way of things. And it absolutely does not have to be that way at all. We can feel, and, and, you know, people do feel better when they make these improvements, they feel a lot better. And they're quite amazed sometimes that they could, could even feel better and didn't even realize how much better they could be feeling. So that's kind of a hopeful note to end this conversation on. And I do hope men are listening because they're not always, you know, as I said, I've done so many lectures where women come and their husband's sitting next to them or their significant other as though he came to try to figure them out. And I have, I have slides for them to consider and then they'll, they'll somehow be gobsmacked

at, Oh, what are we talking about me now? Yes. You're not immune to these hormonal changes guys. Yep. That's true. Well, like I said, in the very beginning of the episode, we talked so much about women's hormones that I feel like this conversation is not being had enough that guys don't even understand that they're also being affected just in different ways. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for everyone listening. Where can they find you? What's the website they can go to use the code to get the testing, et cetera?

Yourhormonebalance.com is the website. And all of our kits are up there. And, um, then we have a great Instagram, which I think is more female based, but there's a lot of important information there that can apply to men as well in terms of dietary. Well, Jesse doesn't like me. My daughter, Jess doesn't like me to use the word diet, which can apply to nutritional nurturing and strengthening. So that's at your hormone balance dot com. But the test kits are up on the main website and can be ordered through the website and

the code can be applied there. Real food ology. So we'll, you know, we'll look forward to, um, seeing who comes through. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was so informative. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the real foodology podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called heaven by the amazing singer Georgie spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for

educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.