Realfoodology - Are Vaccines ‘Safe & Effective’? The Legal Debate | Aaron Siri

Starting point is 00:00:00 On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. Once you see the actual data, once you have it, you realize there's what public health authorities tell you and tell the public. And then there's what the evidence actually shows. And they are quite different. And that's what I wrote in the, that's what I basically wrote the book for it to show people that differential. Hi, friends.

Starting point is 00:00:23 Welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology podcast. On today's episode, I sit down with Aaron Siri, managing partner of, Siri and Glimstad and one of the country's leading voices on civil rights informed consent and vaccine policy. After a decade deposing top vaccinologists and forcing unprecedented transparency from federal agencies, Aaron has uncovered a striking gap between what the public is told about vaccines and what these experts admit under oath. We dive in the evidence he lays out in his new book Vaccines Amen, unpacking why belief often replaces data, how liability shields, shield, shape safety standards and what actually happens inside clinical trials and federal health

Starting point is 00:01:04 agencies. If you want a clear evidence-based look into the world of vaccinology, stripped of dogma and grounded in hard one legal discovery than this episode is for you. I hope that you guys like this episode. The things that Aaron talks about just blew my mind. And if you have seen the documentary that I've been talking about a lot recently, an inconvenient study, he is actually the lawyer that's in that documentary. I highly recommend going to watch it if you have have not seen it yet. And check out his book. It's a great resource. I get so many questions from parents asking me all the time, how do I navigate this? What do I do? He's a great resource. I hope you love the episode. Please take a moment to rate and review it. If you love this

Starting point is 00:01:42 episode, if you want to post it on Instagram and tag me at Real Foodology, it would be awesome. It means so much to me to get the word out. And thank you so much for your support. Enjoy the episode. Thanks, guys. When you're considering gift giving this year, instead of gifting stuff, why don't you give the gift of health? I personally love function health. it's the only health platform that gives me access to data that most people never see and the insights to actually do something about it inside function you can have access to over 160 plus lab tests annually through their platform they test hormones toxins heart health inflammation stress you get a near 360 view of what's happening inside your body and it's all tracked securely over time and if you

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Starting point is 00:03:05 slash real foodology. I started taking something last year that was really helping me out with my workout. So if you guys have been listening for a while, you know that one of the things that I have really been working on is doing more strength training, doing more heavy lifting and resistance training because it's so good for your health. And what I started taking is something called mitopure. And it actually helps me feel stronger in my workouts. I feel like I recover quicker. I don't get as sore. And mitopure is the only urolithin A supplement on the market clinically proven to target the effects of age-related cellular decline. With regular use, you'll see and feel the difference in the form of improved energy levels, better workouts, faster recovery, and more

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Starting point is 00:04:28 So I actually was in, my husband and I flew out to D.C. a couple months ago because we became friends with Senator Ron Johnson because I was on his nutrition roundtable last year with Bobby Kennedy and Callie Means, and I've been very involved in the Maha movement. And they knew that I really cared a lot about vaccines. So Ron Johnson's assistant invited me out to that hearing that you guys had about the COVID vaccines. The most recent one. Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 00:04:50 And you... Like about a month ago. Yes, exactly. And you really stood out to me because I will never forget. Who was that senator? It was Richard Blumenthal. He asked you if you were a doctor and your response was so baller. Hector and I were like, you said you had to rely on the actual science and not just your title, which was so awesome.

Starting point is 00:05:10 Yeah. It was a good moment. That was, I mean, that's what I knew. I was like, oh, this guy is so legit. And since then I've looked into so much of your work and what you've been. been doing. Obviously, you wrote this book, Vaccines, Amen. Thank you so much for writing that. And the work that you've been doing on this issue, I just want to say I'm so grateful because there's so many parents right now that are trying to navigate this and they don't know what to

Starting point is 00:05:32 do. They don't know the truth. They don't know what's actually happening. And that Big Farm has lied to us for so long. So thank you so much for the work that you're doing. And for people that don't know you and have not heard of your book yet, can you tell them a little bit about what you do? Sure. And thank you for helping to spread good information. parents so they can make good decisions. I've been doing vaccine-related work for over a decade. So my firm has over 50 people that just do vaccine-related work. So I think we have the largest vaccine practice in the world that does not represent

Starting point is 00:06:03 pharmaceutical companies. And so, you know, we do every aspect of it. You know, we help people immigrate with, you know, legally without getting vaccines, go to university without vaccines, go to school without vaccines, military, you know, we've got We brought in cases against the military when they were crying the COVID vaccine, preventing over 10,000 members of the Air Force, for example, for being discharged. We got an injunction to stop that. And then we also help people who are injured by vaccine,

Starting point is 00:06:33 but we don't sue pharma companies. We can't for the most part because they have immunity. It's the only product in America, literally the only one that you cannot sue the manufacturer to claim that had you made that product. safer my kid wouldn't have died my kid wouldn't have been seriously injured so what we do but you can bring a claim against the federal government the very same department that claims it's safe the united states department held human services and so we bring those claims it's a limited program with limited compensation and not a fair forum you don't get any discovery yeah but they've paid out over

Starting point is 00:07:13 five billion dollars and we help folks get some compensation for that and then at the heart of the vaccine work we do is our policy practice. And that involves securing people's individual and civil rights. So, you know, if you want to get a vaccine, great. That's freedom. Yeah, you should be able to. This is America. Yeah. You should be free to get a vaccine every day. I support your right to do that. I support your right to wear 16 masks and live in your basement if you want because that's freedom. If you're 18 during COVID with no comorbidities and you want to get a vaccine a live in your basement and wear 70 masks, I'd fight for your right to do that.

Starting point is 00:07:53 And if you're 80 with 10 comorbidities, but you wanted to go to the coffee shop with no mask, no vaccine, and live your life, you should be able to do that because that's what freedom is. And so our policy practice focused around making sure that everybody has a choice to choose to get or not get these products. Obviously, the get is not a problem. The not get can be a problem.

Starting point is 00:08:18 certain circumstances. And so states that don't have an exemption like Mississippi, we brought a lawsuit to restore a religious exemption there to over 400,000 kids now have an exemption where we got an injunction. Wow. Is that statewide or is it just based on the kids that you brought into the statewide? Oh, okay. So we brought a case in federal court. So during COVID, you may recall the U.S. Supreme Court came down with decisions that said, hey, look, if you can keep Walmart or you can let the church stay open. So we said the same thing. We said, hey, if you can let a kid into school

Starting point is 00:08:53 based on a secular reason, a medical exemption, then you can accommodate religious reasons. If there isn't a health imperative to say nobody can come and you can accommodate some for a non-religious reason, then you need to accommodate for a religious reason. And so that prevailed in federal court. We did the similar thing in the biggest university system

Starting point is 00:09:14 in the United States that didn't offer an exemption. which is the University of California system. And that's of over 300,000 students. And they finally, after a number of lawsuits, finally folded and restored a religious exemption for all students. Yes. And so, you know, for the most part in America, you can go to school.

Starting point is 00:09:35 I mean, there's virtually, there are very few universities you can't go to in America that don't have, excuse me, an exemption. So if you want to go to University of America, you can. If you want to go to school, you can. There's four states left, basically, that don't offer an exemption. New York, Cali, Maine, and Connecticut,

Starting point is 00:09:56 and we're working on that. And, you know, so that's the heart of the practice. And it's the heart of the type of work that I do. And when I litigate those cases, as you just brought up with Senator Blumenthal, I don't get to rely on titles. And I go to court and I say, hey, this product doesn't stop transmission.

Starting point is 00:10:21 I have to prove it. I don't just say it. I don't get to say I have an MD, Ph.D., MPH, so. Trust me. Trust me. So because I have to prove it, you know, we have to actually, we need good data. We need good studies. And when we go and have to bring those vaccine injury cases I was telling you about,

Starting point is 00:10:43 we have to prove causation. We have to actually prove, in almost all the cases, the vaccine actually caused the injury. How do you do that? You need good science, you need good data, right, and so forth. You also need to have an understanding of vaccinology and immunology and infectious disease and so forth. And so along the way, we have also had the opportunity, including by representing a group called ICANN, and the Informant Action Network, which funds most of our policy work,

Starting point is 00:11:16 to uncover most of the trial data and other related information about vaccines. And once you see the actual data, once you have it, you realize there's what public health authorities tell you and tell the public, and then there's what the evidence actually shows. And they are quite different. And that's what I wrote in the, that's what I basically wrote the book for to show people that differential.

Starting point is 00:11:46 Yeah. And this is, I mean, as someone who I've known this information for quite a long time, I didn't have the data to back it up. But when I was 11, 10 or 11, my brother was vaccine injured. And my mom said to me on the side that she felt like it happened after my brother's shots. So around that age, I lived with that my whole life going, okay, I just, I knew that like you could have an injury from a pharmaceutical drug. And obviously my mom didn't know. And I will say this and be very clear. My parents have never officially proved it. But they did watch an inconvenient study recently. And my parents called me and they said, we're really rethinking what happened with your brother.

Starting point is 00:12:30 And we think this is exactly what happened because he was completely fine. And then his fever spiked. He ended up in the NICU for three weeks. And mind you, this was like he was born completely healthy, there was no issues, there are two days in, they're about to leave the hospital, he gets shots, or maybe one shot, it's still unclear, my mom doesn't fully remember. And then his fever spiked, ended up in the NICU, he could never walk, he could never talk, he could never hold up his head. He was an infant until he died when he was 11. And my parents watched an inconvenient study and they said, oh my God. And they flew him across the country to every single neurological expert, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:08 every major doctor they could find and nobody ever had full answers for them. My mom just was like intuitively. She said it happened after the shots. And so I, and then, you know, in the 90s, Jenny McCarthy starts talking about all this. And then I internalized, oh, I can't talk about this because then I will be, my career will be destroyed, I'll be a quack, no one's going to believe me, like, you know, because they went so hard after people about that. Now I'm so grateful that we're in this time

Starting point is 00:13:35 where I'm like, oh, finally I can share about all this because I've known about this for so long, and we actually have the science and the data to back it up now. That's what people don't understand. And this is what I love about your book is that you go into all of this, and I want to talk about some of this.

Starting point is 00:13:48 So you talk about how vaccines have become a religion. I want to know, first of all, how do we combat that? Is there ever any hope to get past this point of where people just see this, narrow tunnel and they can't see outside of their own biases. Absolutely. I think we're actually are a significant way down that path, genuinely. I would say that, and just so, just so, you know, folks understand what I mean by it's a

Starting point is 00:14:19 religion, just so I'm clear about that. But what I mean is this, in a religion, whatever one practices, often you know you're engaged in a leap of faith. Yeah. It's the point is to answer the unanswerable. Where do we come from? Where to go when we die? Right? You know you're taking a leap of faith.

Starting point is 00:14:40 You can never really prove those things. So it's a religion. It requires faith. It's the whole point. Right? Yeah. Here's the thing about this religion, okay? It's a perverse religion.

Starting point is 00:14:54 Because the folks who run this religion, right, the vaccinologists and some of their peers, I don't think they think that they're in a religion. They repeat claims about vaccines that are completely contrary to the data. They tell you vaccines are the most thoroughly studied products before they're licensed, that their clinical trials are incredibly robust. That's what they tell you. That's what they let the public believe. I'm using one example.

Starting point is 00:15:25 The data is completely contrary. Most vaccines, for example, are licensed based on clinical trials, days or weeks of safety review after injection, no placebo control group, and not enough kids in them. Any one of those three things are not sufficient, trial is not reliable on safety. And so, but here's how, and here's how to really bring it home, when I depose vaccinologists, immunologists, infectious disease doctors, pediatricians, or I deal with other members of medical community, like that doctor who you saw the infectious disease professor

Starting point is 00:16:05 from Stanford at that hearing, right? When you confront these people with the data, with the proof, do they have an intellectual response? Do they go, oh, I should rethink this? No, what do you often get? You get anger. Defensiveness. Defensiveness, dehumanization, pejoratives.

Starting point is 00:16:28 Personal attacks. As you just said, anti-this, you're anti-science, you're whatever it is, some other pejorative. That's what you get. Why? Because if you could support it based on data, based on logic, based on evidence, you draw from your head.

Starting point is 00:16:45 But when you can't, where you're gonna draw from? From their emotions. Because these are beliefs. And that's a proof in it. in it. You might recall at that hearing, you know, every time the Stanford infectious disease professor was confronted with the evidence, he kept, you could see it visibly. He kept getting more and more upset. He didn't, he didn't reach down into his intellect or pull out his phone and research and, or no, he just kept getting more and more upset where by the end, you could see

Starting point is 00:17:18 his, what was his closing statement? His closing statement, well, I, I hope we can all be civil and not send mobs after scientists, which really is what? He's saying, you're violent. Yeah. That's a tactic to dehumanize those you don't agree with. You could go, one way you could go is say, okay, I'm wrong, I'm going to learn from this. The other way is to go, no, you're just bad.

Starting point is 00:17:44 You're stupid. You're evil. You're this or that. And that's, unfortunately. But, you know, so that's why I call it a religion. Now, to answer you a question, so sorry. No, you're good. Your question is...

Starting point is 00:17:57 I do want to point out one more thing because Dell pointed this out in our recent podcast. It's also a religion because at this point, people don't know. They're just, they're believing studies that have faith that they want these vaccines to work. The data doesn't actually show that they are doing what they're supposed to be doing. There's just faith that it's supposed to be doing that. Like, for example, they say, well, we don't have the data to show that it does. does prove autism, but they also don't have the data to prove that it doesn't. So it's based off of faith. It's based off of faith.

Starting point is 00:18:31 Yeah. So in vaccinology, and, you know, I've, my firm, like I said, we have our 50 folks that do vaccine work. We also have more than 50 folks to do other stuff. We do class act. We do, you know, plaintiff's side, data breach cases. We do biometric privacy cases, genetic privacy case. Nobody taxes for that. They're like, oh, protecting genetic privacy? Great. protect people's private data, great. You know, to protect people's facial geometry from, you know, oh, great, good job. Protect people from, you know, doing work on vaccine.

Starting point is 00:19:01 Uh-oh. Like, you know, that's anyway. Yeah. My point is that in no other discipline, and we have to, and, you know, in the work that we've done, we do encounter other scientific disciplines, in no other scientific discipline that I've ever encountered, okay, do they draw the conclusion that X doesn't cause Y when there's no evidence to reach any conclusion?

Starting point is 00:19:30 So let me add me to that, okay? You just said vaccines don't cause autism. They will tell you vaccines do not cause autism. As Delamide told you, we sued, our firm sued on behalf of ICANN, we sued the CDC for all the studies that show that D-TAP injected at two, four, and six months of age does not cause autism. That Hib vaccine injected at two, four, and six months of age as not goes autism. That PCV vaccine injected at two, four, and six months of age as not goes autism. That IPV vaccine injected at two, four, and six months of age as not goes autism.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And that HIPB vaccine injected at birth, one month, and six months to not cause autism. Fifteen injections, all within the first six months of life, you say vaccines don't cause autism. surely you have studies to support that. How do you reach a scientific conclusion, for better or worse? You look at the peer-reviewed literature, peer-view processes, got problems. But that's the way you do it. I didn't come up with that system. They did.

Starting point is 00:20:29 Okay. So give me the studies, please, let's show that. We first requested in something called the Freedom Information Act request. They didn't provide them. And if they didn't provide them, we sued them. And then days before we were supposed to have the initial conference, I got to call call from the Department of Justice, basically, and we're going to give you a list of 20. The CDC is going to give 20 studies.

Starting point is 00:20:50 So I get the list and look at it, and I think that maybe their assumption is I don't read. I don't know. It's been happening a lot. Maybe it's like they thought it was going to be in like some cryptic language that I don't have the cipher for, but they're in English. I read them. So I call, I remember, I call the DOJ attorney, and nice guy. And I said, hey, you got your list.

Starting point is 00:21:16 And here's the thing. 19 of these studies, there were really 16 studies and four reviews, have nothing to do with the vaccines in the first six months of life. And most cases, in autism, would often be diagnosed before one year of age. There's no other vaccines given in the first year of life. Well, there's flu shot. There's, now there's COVID. and they add a rhodovirus given orally. But I'm like, these are the core ones, right?

Starting point is 00:21:44 Yeah. I said, you know, and then finally they start at age one, they give the MMR and the chicken box, okay? I said, 19 of these have nothing to do with any of the vaccines we asked about. Nothing. They're either studies about MMR vaccine or one ingredient called the Marisol

Starting point is 00:22:03 that are not in any of these vaccines anyway. So, and I said the, and the final one, one you gave me, is a review by the Institute of Medicine from 2012. And it did look at the question of whether D-TAP caused autism. Why? Because the CDC and HRSA, that's the agency in our federal government that actually defends those vaccine injury cases.

Starting point is 00:22:27 They paid the Institute of Medicine, which is not part of government, to review what they said were the 158 most commonly claimed. injuries from child of vaccines. And on that list, on that list, according to them, not me, not Dell, according to them, was the claim that D-TAP causes autism. So the Institute of Medicine took all our money, because it's our money, by the way. They just take it, low at them. And they reviewed, they convened a panel of 20-something experts. They reviewed the entire body of scientific literature on whether D-TAP causes autism, and they could only find one study,

Starting point is 00:23:12 study by Geyer and Geyer, that you know what, you know what it found? That there was a link. That there was a correlation between vaccines and autism, between D-TAP vaccine and autism. But the IOM threw it out because it was based on something called theirs data, which I said is unreliable.

Starting point is 00:23:27 That's fine. That's okay. The important point is this. So let's get back to this call with the DOJ attorney. I said, so, the 20th one you sent only references one study and that one study did find an association.

Starting point is 00:23:43 So out of the five vaccines you have produced its grand total of one study and that has to do with those vaccines and that shows there was a connection. So is, are you sure your client wants to sign this? Like, give them every chance.

Starting point is 00:23:59 And, you know, you can go to ICANN's website or you can go to the federal docket and you could see the stipulated order. It's signed by the Department of Justice on behalf of the CDC. I signed it on behalf of I can. It was entered as an order of the federal court as an order of the court.

Starting point is 00:24:15 And there it is. Now, if you want to know whether vaccines cause out, I don't know what else, like, what else do you do, right? Yeah. So to the point that you were making, yes, they will tell you vaccines don't cause autism because they say, well, there's no studies that show it.

Starting point is 00:24:31 There are no studies that show it does cause it. Now, they don't have studies to show it doesn't cause it. They just don't have any studies. So they will say, that it doesn't cause autism. Put aside the fact that they ignore an entire body of literature that supports precisely how vaccines can cause all kinds of neurodevelopmental issues that would include autism, which is just a DSM-5 diagnosis, just a psychiatric diagnosis. So it's not a, you know, it's not a, it's in any event.

Starting point is 00:25:03 It's a symptomatology, let's put that aside. So, so yes, it is very much religion for that reason too. And I'll add one more point to it to really drive it home because I'm sure the A word is making people upset. And anybody who's getting emotional about autism or in its connection of vaccines, you really should read my book. Yeah. I don't know where the camera is, but wherever it is,

Starting point is 00:25:27 you should read the book and I'll tell you why. Because if you're having an emotional reaction to a scientific question, then, you know, it's really important to get to a place where you stop feeling about these products or thinking about them. That's really why I wrote the book.

Starting point is 00:25:45 Of those 158 vaccine injury payers that our federal government, with our tax dollars, pay the Institute of Medicine to review, and they paid them because they wanted the IOM to come, come back and say, vaccines don't cause these things as a shortcut to defending them in the vaccine court, okay?

Starting point is 00:26:07 Instead, the Institute of Medicine, as hard as they tried, for over 130 of them, came back and said, sorry, we can't, just like D-TAP and autism, we can't tell you vaccines don't cause that because you didn't do the science. You didn't do the studies, right? And that includes encephalopathy, which means brain damage, encephalitis. The smelling of the brain, right? Cephylitis is brain swelling. Cephalopathy is brain damaged.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Okay. And so for both, they said, sorry, you didn't do the studies. For about 18 of them, they did find that the vaccine is causal. For five, they said they ruled out that the vaccine as a cause. For the rest, they said, don't know. But nonetheless, to your point, in the most recent CDC ASEP meeting,

Starting point is 00:26:51 ASIP is the CDC's vaccine committee, they were discussing Hep B and the chief medical officer of the CDC's immunization safety office put up a slide on which it says, and I tweeted about this, that the Institute of Medicine in that 2012 report found that the Heppe vaccine is safe. And that is the religion.

Starting point is 00:27:14 No. It found that 20 out of 21 conditions, the most common according to CDC and HRSA, weren't studied. That's not a conclusion that's safe. that is an indictment that you haven't done your job and it shows a print are complaining about vaccines causing autism

Starting point is 00:27:33 like apparently or causing some harm but you're not studying it. Something that I love to do every morning especially in the winter months because it really does help to boost the immune system is adding manuka honey to my coffee. It's a great way to get the manuka honey in and the reason why I love manuka honey,

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Starting point is 00:30:16 Beekeepers natural products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Amazon, CVS, and Walgreens. And isn't the Hep B vaccine the one that they only studied the children for, was it five or six days afterwards? And then they said that they found no, no issues with the Hep B. Wasn't that the study or the? So before I answer that, I want to say this. If you asked me to come up with the most ludicrous, craziest thing I could come up with about vaccines, I would never have dreamed about saying what I'm about to tell you.

Starting point is 00:30:53 So I wouldn't believe it personally unless I saw it and litigated it. But what I'm about to tell you is categorically a fact. And you need to go no further than the FDA website to prove it. Okay. And anybody at home watching this, you can go do this. It's not hard. Go to the website. You can go to literally, and I'll even walk through it.

Starting point is 00:31:15 If you go to Google, type in FDA licensed vaccines, okay? Everybody watching at home, you can do this, all right? And you will get the page from the FDA website that has all the licensed vaccines. Go down the list, and you will see four Hep-B vaccines. Four. Two of them are only for adults, so forget those. The two for kids are RecombaVax-HB and Ender-X-B. Okay, that's it.

Starting point is 00:31:38 So RecombaVax-HB, click on it. click package insert, go to section 6.1, okay? And when you go there, you will see, as required by federal regulations, a summary of what was the clinical trial allowed upon to license this product? And what it shows is that this vaccine was licensed to be injected into babies and children based on a clinical trial that monitored safety for five days after injection. Oh, my God. It gets worse.

Starting point is 00:32:08 with 147 kids and there's no control group. So the other B vaccine, EnderXB had four days of safety monitoring after injection, okay? So you're giving this to a baby. You will not know what immunological, neurological, developmental, go down all the different systems. You will not know those issues until the baby's at least a few years old. Yeah. At least. Or at least can, you know, express their issue.

Starting point is 00:32:38 Yeah? Maybe it's part of why they give vaccines to babies so often they can't... This is what I say. I say this all the time. Yeah. I had this debate with actually a vaccinologist not just a few days ago. But so that is, and I will tell you, the first time I saw that, I just could not believe it was true. I just couldn't believe it. It seems so incredible. And when I deposed the world's leading vaccinologist, Dr. Stanley Plotkin, which I discussed in chapter one in my book, I asked them about exactly this trial. And if you watch the video of this deposition, you will see that he, too, opens, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:14 the package interest 6.1. And he, too, you know, was surprised. Now, in the deposition, there was something I didn't know, okay? He seems surprised. And I said, was five days long enough to know whether or not a kid will develop X or Y or Z on, you know, day 60s, I can know. Of course, I mean, it's just logic. Here's the crazy part. After the deposition, I subpoenaed him to produce any documents to show it's longer than this amount of time, because it's ridiculous. Yeah. It seems unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:33:44 Yeah. He moved to quash the subpoena instead of spawning. He never produced anything. We then FOIA, the FDA on behalf of ICANN, for the underlying clinical trial documents. So, well, maybe there's more. And no. Underline clinical trial documents,

Starting point is 00:34:01 the summary basis of approval, the package insert, and the peer-reviewed study on the trial, all say the same thing. It is categorical. I mean, I had to do the whole, we had to do the whole thing to really believe it. Here's the craziest part. You ready for the kicker?

Starting point is 00:34:15 When we got the clinical trial reports, it listed who the principal investigator was for that trial. Guess it was? Dr. Stanley Plotkin. Of course it was. The very same vaccinologist who I was deposing, and when you watch a video, you know, to me, looks surprised.

Starting point is 00:34:36 And what that reflects, too, is that safety is such an afterthought. He himself, even as the principal investigator, apparently did not recall how long safety was monitored in that trial. So, yeah, it's a problem. But I am hopeful about it. I never answered your hopeful question. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so, okay, you feel like it's changing course. I mean, I do.

Starting point is 00:34:58 I shared in the beginning that I was so scared to talk about any of this stuff because I watched what happened to Jenny McCarthy in the public. and I said, okay, I'm just not going to touch this on my Instagram or my podcast. And now I have found that you can have these conversations openly. And yes, I get attacked a lot still, and I'm sure that you do too. But I'm also getting a ton of people that are going, oh, my God, what do I do? You know, I'm a parent. I'm about to have kids. I'm getting texts from friends now that are asking me, which I never,

Starting point is 00:35:25 and people I never thought would have ever been questioning any of this. So it's definitely changing. But what people are still not fully understanding is that, these top vaccinologists do not actually have the data to back up what they're saying. And people just say, oh, that's not true. They have, we have loads, we have mountains of evidence. And you also had, hold on, I need to find his name. Was it Jake Scott, I believe?

Starting point is 00:35:50 That's the Stanford infectious disease doctor at the hearing. Yes. Oh, yes, that's right. He was at the hearing. Okay, so he basically said that he had 600 and, what was it, 50-something studies. 6161, I think he said, or something like that. Yeah, so he had, you know, over 600 studies to prove everything, you know, against everything that you're saying. Can you talk about what happened there?

Starting point is 00:36:12 Sure. So, Dr. Scott, a true believer. Yeah. A true believer. When we were going to have this hearing, well, let me back up, let me back up, because there's a good backstory to it. I think. So there's a CNN article that quotes him. And what the CNN article says, you know, something to the effect of like RFK juniors

Starting point is 00:36:44 claim that vaccines, you know, were never licensed based on placebo control trials is like been debunked, okay? They debunked it. They debunked this claim all the time. They're really just debunking the FDA, by the way, which, but let's put that aside, okay? Chapter 10 of my book lays out every single clinical trial license. Every routine injected child vaccine, all cited to the FDA sources.

Starting point is 00:37:06 Okay. It's easy to figure this out. All that CNN had to do was go to the FDA website. But no, CNN doesn't do that. They don't go to the FDA website and, like, look at the primary sources. I mean, why would you do that? It's so crazy. Why would you do that?

Starting point is 00:37:20 Instead, they go to Dr. Jake Scott. And what does Dr. Jake Scott do? God bless him. Instead of going to the FDA website to, the infectious disease professor from Stanford, he decides to crowdsource, okay? All the placebo-controlled trials in the whole universe, apparently, and he's just collecting them on an Excel spreadsheet. And he's got hundreds of them listed.

Starting point is 00:37:47 And so CNN says, see, debunked. RFK juniors claim that there's never been, you know, that a routine injector to a vaccine that was licensed based on a placebo control trial is just false because Dr. J. Scott says so. When they quote Dr. Scott, here's what he says. And you have to read the article to make sure I think I'm getting this accurate, but I'll rely on the article's exact wording. He says when he heard RFK Jr.'s claim,

Starting point is 00:38:17 he knew it must be false. And so he set out to prove it. Understand? Yeah. That's not how the scientific method works, by the way, in any other discipline other than vaccines. He knew. He just knew.

Starting point is 00:38:35 And so he set out to prove it. Here's the thing. So when he showed up at this, so that's the backstory, okay? So, you know, he's very, he's out there and he's doing this thing. And so when we had this hearing that you just described with Senator Johnson

Starting point is 00:38:47 of hearing about, you know, vaccines and child of vaccines and safety and corruption and so forth, the corruption of science with vaccines, the other side, so to speak, the other party, they invited Dr. Jake Scott. Now, why don't they invite a vaccinologist? Why don't they invite Dr. Stanton, Dr. Paul Offutt, or Dr. Walter Orinstein, or Dr. Peter Hotez,

Starting point is 00:39:13 why don't they invite any of the vaccinologists to defend vaccines? Why didn't they? Because I don't think that, I do not believe that they feel they could defend it. Not in that form. I've offered debate them. I've deposed them.

Starting point is 00:39:29 Now, they're kind of trapped in that form. Yeah. But I've openly offered to give them a even better up. I've told Dr. Offett, I don't know if he's probably the most well-known doctorologist. Yeah. You know, we've had our tussles on Twitter and on, when that didn't work out, he switched to substack.

Starting point is 00:39:50 And then that didn't work out. He just stopped. But I offered, I said, look, let's get together in a forum. You get to, we pick a topic. You pick it. clinical trials, post-licensure safety, autism, you name it. And let's go 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes. I said, my only condition is we have a monitor, a big screen, where we can put up evidence.

Starting point is 00:40:08 That's it. That's all I want. Yeah. I just want to be able to put up evidence. Like, you know, data, documents. He's never taken up the invitation. That's why he's not there. That's why Dr. Jake Scott's there.

Starting point is 00:40:20 Anyway, so they bring in Dr. Jake Scott. Why? Because he's an infectious disease doctor. He's not a vaccinologist. And he just, he's never. really studied this from what I can see. He just believes, you know, he's doing this crowdsourcing. He's never even really looked at the studies from his own admission.

Starting point is 00:40:37 So he just, he believes the slogans, the mantras that have been fed from the vaccinologists. You know, people think of his infectious disease doctors and pediatricians and immunologists and the medical community is being knowledgeable of vaccines, but they don't know. Based on my experience and depositions, they don't know anything of vaccines. I mean, pediatricians, they don't virtually know. I've never met a pediatrician. other than the ones that have crossed over, so to speak, who take issue with the products to some degree,

Starting point is 00:41:04 who know almost anything about it in my depositions of them, nor infects disease, nor immunologists. But they take it from the vaccinologist, but they're the ones who are hiding in the background. Anyway, I was a long way to answer your question. I'm supposed to say. No, oh my God, I love, I love, I love all of this. When we were sitting at that hearing,

Starting point is 00:41:24 he says, he says, something like, and this claim about, you know, the placebo trials is just, you know, debunked. I have 660-something trials. Now, he had put that in his written submission. And so I was like, all right, I better go look at all these trials. So I did. I went through the whole list. And it wasn't that hard to get through it because as I, you know, when explained at the hearing,

Starting point is 00:41:52 I said, well, 500 and something of them have nothing to do. with a routine-injected vaccine in the childhood schedule. None of those were relied upon to license any of those vaccines. So what does a vaccine for an AIDS vaccine in Africa have to do with a happy vaccine given to a baby or nothing? Exactly. It's irrelevant. It's like, well, I relied on that, you know, that trial for that heart medicine to tell you that this other medicine is safe, really?

Starting point is 00:42:25 I don't know how you do that. It's just silly. I don't think he would even argue that if he really is in his right mind. Then the next, after that, you're left with like, I think it was like 100. And like 70 of them had didn't involve healthy children. So again, you were giving like you involved adults and so forth, which you can't ever license a product for kids without kids in the trial because you don't know how it's going to work. And anyways, you could be watching.

Starting point is 00:42:59 But basically, the upshot is not a single one of those was a clinical trial relies upon to license a routine-inject child vaccine, not one. And then the best part was what he said. He goes, I can't believe that you read all of those. I haven't even gone through all of them yet. What? It's because he hasn't spent a decade actually involved in vaccine litigation after being familiar with the body of literature.

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Starting point is 00:48:38 Go to Bioptimizers.com slash Real Foodology and get your mass times today and the limited time free gifts. Oh, so let's talk about the National Childhood Vaccine. injury act of 1986. You've mentioned this briefly, but I'm getting a lot of questions from parents asking, do we ever think that this is going to be overturned? What would happen if vaccine companies were actually being held accountable like any other industry? And do we think that this will ever be overturned? I think it will take something cataclysmic for it to be overturned because you have over 1,000 pharma lobbyists. And do you know the number of vaccine injury lobbyists? A lot of it. I actually don't know if any.

Starting point is 00:49:21 Really? Vaccine injury lobbyists? Oh, sorry, vaccine injury. I'm sorry. I thought you were saying vaccine lobbyists. No. Yeah, no, no, no. No, there's over a thousand pharma pseudo company law. And so your health industry, health care industry and pharma lobbyists, right? I mean, it's outnumbered. And so, you know, they have an outsized influence on the political process, including, you know, with dollars and so forth, beyond just the lobbyists, campaign contributions and so forth. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:50 And so I don't see Congress. Now, there's plenty. There are many, well, many is maybe a little too strong, but there are a number of elected representatives in Congress that have put forth a bill to repeal the immunity under 86 Act. We've worked with the number of them. there's a few you know there's a bill right now that's got a few dozen co-sponsors on it but that's about it they're not getting a lot more than that that bill will never make

Starting point is 00:50:20 it through in my opinion yeah i mean it should um but i don't think so i don't think it'll be repealed um with that said um it is a terrible it's a terrible law um you know the reason that products are safer is because the companies have economic self-interest to make the safer. That is what makes product safer. There's nothing to do with the government. Yeah. Government regulation, government agencies don't make products safer.

Starting point is 00:50:51 Look at countries that have almost no free market economy and incredible amounts of government regulation, like the old USSR. How the products do in there and safety-wise? They're not so safe. Terrible. So government does not make products safe. They like to project that they do.

Starting point is 00:51:08 Do you think cars are safer because of the government? No, that's a joke. No, they're safer because the company exists to make money. Okay, and that doesn't need to be a bad thing. That's what they're there to do. Obviously, you might have a 401K, you might have an invest portfolio. You want the companies you invest in to make money, right? Everybody who's got an investment account, obviously Wall Street does.

Starting point is 00:51:34 You know, the board members do, the officers do, because that's what the comps are tied to. Everybody has their interests aligned in the company making money. Now, normally, on the safety front, they're often aligned. If you put a product out that hurts people, you're going to end up upside down financially, so you don't want to do that. You have a natural, the company has a natural economic self-interest to assure safety. I can't stress enough how critical that is. It's self-regulating. Okay?

Starting point is 00:52:07 Yeah. we only product again i said this earlier i just i'll stress again the only product in america everything in this room you and are sitting in if this microphone catches on fire if this wall has chemical in the sheet rock that causes cancer if this you know not designed to suspend whatever's above our head right now and it comes crashing down on us right you go go through it the plane i flew in on today the car i drove here on the asphalt used i mean literally every single product that you encounter every single day. Think of every single component that makes up your house. Thousands of products go into doing that. Think of every component that makes every consumer

Starting point is 00:52:47 product that you buy. This glass, right? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it looks clear, but, you know, it could have bad stuff on it. I mean, it could. Yeah. The water that's in this glass, okay? The food that we eat, right? You can't remember that. For every one of those, if the manufacturer could have designed it such that it would not have killed or injured the user, then you can hold them accountable. And I'll give you just basic examples. If for one penny, I could have put a stopper on a gas tank. So when a car got into a crash, the gas wouldn't have continued to flow out and exploded.

Starting point is 00:53:28 Although, this is an actual case. Wow. I don't know if it was a penny, and I don't know the exact. I don't really know gas tanks, mechanics that well, but it's something like that, okay? Yeah, we got the gist. It's the gist, okay? You could have averted, you know, the car exploding. And the famous case was actually the, there was cars, a few cars that exploded.

Starting point is 00:53:52 And the company had done a calculation, literally had done a calculation, that it would cost them more to replace that than paying for the deaths, like the dozen or so deaths it would cause every year. And so that's where kind of punitive damages ended up coming into play. Because with punitive damages, you are punishing the company for exactly that kind of conduct to, again, make that economic force work, okay? It holds the company accountable. Which is why with drugs, for example, they don't do those ridiculous trials to do with vaccines. They do multi-year placebo-controlled trials often. Here, not to cherry pick.

Starting point is 00:54:31 and I have this in a chart in my book, but the four most profitable drugs sold by Pfizer, each have multi-year placebo-controlled trials before their license. Why? Because the government required it? No. In my opinion, it's because Pfizer wants to know. Pfizer wanted to know

Starting point is 00:54:55 before they put it on the market. And X amount of people got it, is it going to hurt people? Because if it does, they could end up upside down. And that would get everybody upset. Well, that's the wrong word. They would lose money that would not be good for business. Yep.

Starting point is 00:55:13 Okay? But with vaccines, they have the opposite incentive. It's the only product like that. The more safety they do, the less likely is to be licensed. And once it's licensed, do that to worry about liability? No. And so that liability is terribly corrupt. And it's been with us since 1986.

Starting point is 00:55:33 A child in 1986, when the National Child of Vaccine Indract was passed, following CDC schedule, would have gotten three injections by the first year of life. You know how many of this today? Oh, by three? I don't know. No, no, by one year of age. Now it's 29 injections, including in unirator. By one? By one year of age.

Starting point is 00:55:54 So on including their first birthday, assuming they get all the car vaccines on their first. birthday as well. A child today, including in utero, will get 29 vaccines. I can bore the crap everybody going through them. But it's three to 29. And every one of those products, every one of those products, save one, was licensed by a pharmaceutical company knowing that they were not going to be ever held accountable for the deaths or injuries that occur on the basis they could have made that product safer. And that's why they've been just adding more and more vaccines to the schedule. Because when I was born in 84, my mom said that I, she thinks I maybe got like five shots or something.

Starting point is 00:56:39 She doesn't remember exactly. But now, by the time a child turns 18, I think it's up to 78 shots, doses. I want to be clear, doses of vaccines. Let's look at the business model. Okay. You're ready? Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 00:56:53 I'm going to pretend, I'm going to approach you. You're, you're as a potential investor. I'll say, I got business safe for you. Ready? Okay. We're going to sell this product. We inject it into people. What does it do? Don't worry about it. Well, it's going to hurt people? I would say to you, don't worry about it. The government is going to give us immunity for all the harms we cause. Really? Well, who the heck's going to take it? Don't worry. Government is going to mandate it for school. So you ought to take it. People won't have a choice. Really? But what if they're still upset about it? Don't worry. The government is literally going to spend billions of dollars. promoting this product to the public. And you say, okay, well,

Starting point is 00:57:34 but what do people just refuse to take money out of their pocket and just pay for it? Don't worry. The federal government guarantees payment for any vaccine. In fact, the federal government pays for over half of the shots given in this country to children. Okay? So think about it.

Starting point is 00:57:54 So it's a liability-free product, the guaranteed market, free advertising and guaranteed payment who wouldn't go into this business of course it's an incredible business model and for anybody who's like well but we you know we need to give you know but if they have to be held accountable then they might stop making them really you know there are drugs that are given to only a select few people that cause a lot of harm and they can make money on that but a product they give to millions of kids that you can't make money on the reality is that this. The reason, the way that pharma companies protect themselves as drugs is, one, they make

Starting point is 00:58:32 them as safe as possible, a technologically feasible, and two, they disclose the risks. Yeah. So you can't be sued for what they call design defect claims, and you can't be sued for failure to warrant claims. The primary claims you bring, why can't they just do that for vaccines? Is it because they don't want to make them safer when they, even though they know they can, or is it because they don't want to disclose the real risks? And I would assume they probably don't want to put more money into that because why fix something that's already working? I mean, a boardroom or a CEO that makes decisions on the basis of what's moral and ethical and that was best for the financial bottom line of a company is not lasting very long in their position. Wall Street will have them out.

Starting point is 00:59:14 Their investors will have them out. It's just the way corporate America works. And again, I'm not saying that in a nefarious way. Capitalist system works really well and including assuring safety. when the normal market force operate and our elected representatives don't screw it up. But we have this pharmaceutical drug that is not being held liable.

Starting point is 00:59:34 And it's the only, like you said, it's the only product on the market. It's the only product in the history of this country or the world that is not liable for the damages done if you can prove it. Yeah, well, I mean, obviously we can go to communist countries probably don't have, I mean.

Starting point is 00:59:51 Well, that's true, I guess. But I guess we're talking about America. In the United States, and in most of the developed countries, it's a similar system with vaccines. Yeah. So it's not unique to the U.S. This is, they've exported this everywhere. I'm just shocked that more people, that to me alone, when I finally learned about that, was really eye-opening for me. And I'm shocked that more people don't, that that doesn't get them in initially, where you just say they're the only product in our country that's not held liable if you're injured.

Starting point is 01:00:20 Well, I think the next step people go to is they say, okay, fine. there's this exception. I think that somebody really, you know who I think gets it, people who are, you know, who deal with big corporations and, you know, let's say, you know, lawyers

Starting point is 01:00:35 who really represent them or finance, like they, you know, because they see how they really operate. But I think the next question, the typical person has as well, but maybe despite that, you know, our government did do all the safety studies.

Starting point is 01:00:52 You were, you know, really, studied in good clinical trial before they were licensed, and then after licensure, they're carefully monitored for safety, right? Because people are told that. The federal government tells them that, for a health department, told them that, and state health departments tell them that. And for a lot of people, it causes cognitive dissonance, right? Wait a second. I have been told these are safe and effective over and over and over again. Like, there's only two words you hear, save and effective, it's like a mantra. It's like a mantra. It's like a spell at this point. It's like a

Starting point is 01:01:23 spell at this point. It's a spell. And you're like, what do you mean? They're the most thoroughly safety tested products that exist because they're given to babies. That's what they tell us, right? And so what it can cause is cognitive dissonance in the sense of if they come to the conclusion that, in fact, those assertions cannot be relied upon. And I can't even rely on the claim that vaccines don't cause autism. Forget whether it does. Put that aside. but that the claim that it doesn't, that's not a scientific claim, okay? Then what else can't I trust? And we go through life as human beings.

Starting point is 01:02:01 We have to rely on what I call cultural cognition. We have to rely upon some, you know, what we come across, the information we learn to some degree, or how do we make it, we can't question everything. I don't go in and question how my car works at every instance. I don't question, you know, I mean, you could go crazy, right? We have to trust that things have been put in a place to protect us to a certain degree. I'll use judges as a good example, okay? And this segues into your hopefulness, my hopefulness.

Starting point is 01:02:36 Eight years ago, when I was eight, nine years ago, when I was bringing a typical vaccine policy case to protect rights, I would say the standard that I had for any attorney in my firm that brought me that case is I would say, look, if you want to bring a vaccine policy case, It better be one where when the judge looks at me, he goes or she goes, I hate you. I hate your client. I hate everything about this case, but I don't really have a choice but the rule for you. That was the standard. Why?

Starting point is 01:03:06 Not because judges are bad. Really, nothing to do with that. They're busy. They're often in thousands of cases. They have incredible dockets. I mean, honestly, I don't know how most judges get through them. truly my hack goes off to most judges out there forget politics just the workload's incredible yeah and so they have to rely on cultural cognition to get through that to some degree

Starting point is 01:03:31 and again it's no knock on it it's not a knock on them that's just you know there's no way to do it it is yeah just what it is like they have to rely on the fact that like you know you know you need water to survive okay just a basic fact you need water to survive you will not survive without H2O in your body to some form, okay? And the idea that vaccine is safe and effective literally carried the same weight. It was just a fact, not to be questioned, we don't look under the hood.

Starting point is 01:03:59 And it was very tough for me to get judges to go under the hood at eight, nine years ago, where today the cultural cognition has changed not every part of the country, but a lot. And when I make an argument in a case, well, this vaccine doesn't stop transmission, I find that there are, you know, let's call it half the judges in this country, right? I don't know what the number is.

Starting point is 01:04:21 But they'll say, they'll look at that argument. They'll look at the data. They'll consider it a litigated issue that can be litigated, basically. Okay. And so it's the same thing because, you know, with people in general and so forth. So, yeah, that's... Well, the beauty of all of this is that you actually have the data and the facts to back up what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:04:44 And what we've been trying to get across this whole episode is that the vaccinologists, the doctors, whoever is saying, you know, safe and effective, they don't actually have the data to back up what they're saying. Well, it's, you know, unfortunately, it's the opposite. When they say some of the statements, the reality is often the opposite of what they're saying. But, you know, I mean, I'd have to read my whole book here.

Starting point is 01:05:09 Yeah, well, exactly. I want people to read the book. But I want to know, so I put on my Instagram a text box, and I had a ton of parents write me and say, okay, but what do we do if we live in a state where there are mandates? So, for example, parents living in California, they're aware of the risks. They don't want to put their kid through that. What are their options? Are there any options?

Starting point is 01:05:28 Well, it's difficult in California for school. Yeah. The good news, before we get to the bad news, is that for almost, for most states in the country, 40, basically six states, it's 45 and a half, I'd say. West Virginia is in flux, but pretty much it's getting there. You can send your kid to school, and you can have an exemption. And, you know, they're either philosophical, they're religious. And religious means something broader than Sunday.

Starting point is 01:05:58 It means your convictions, you're personally held, you know, deeply held religious convictions. It can be a religion of one. Okay. Now, there are four states where you can't send your school, without a non-medical exemption. Those are New York, Cali, Maine, and Connecticut. Now, even in those states, you can go to university with an exemption.

Starting point is 01:06:17 Okay, so you can see, even in New York, Cali, right? So we're really, we're really cabined to school in those states. For K through 12 is where it's tough. K through 12, where it's really tough. Now, if you are in, you know, and it really is state dependent, you know, like in Maine, my understanding is that some of the private institutions you cancel, go to school.

Starting point is 01:06:41 And really, you know, in Connecticut, you just go over the border. But no, not anybody in Connecticut, but it's not that big. And then New York, New York can be tougher. But now, for example, in New York, one example, a medical exemption is decided by the head of the school, not by a health authority, by the head of the school.

Starting point is 01:07:03 So if you're in a private school and the head of the school, you know, reviews your medical exemption and says, oh, I find this acceptable, then you can go to school in New York. As an example, there are other things, but it is tough. In Cali, medical exemptions are reviewed by the Department of Health, by, I mean, true vaccine zealots. I mean, these folks are, you know, there are, and doctors are scared out of their minds to write medical medical. Well, and I was going to say, and doctors are losing their licenses if they write too many of these exemptions. They don't write them in Cali anymore. So in California,

Starting point is 01:07:37 it's really tough. Now, they have these, and I should say that, you know, ICAN is supporting our firm to fight, to restore those exemptions, and we are, we're working on it. Just the wheels of, quote, unquote, justice turned slow. It's probably still a few years out, but we're working on it. We're actively working on it right now in the court system. And, but if you've got a child in California and there's a reason you don't want to vaccinate, then you can, hold you. homeschool and there are homeschooling co-ops where you essentially it's the school yeah but it only teaches your kid up to 49% of the instruction okay so they go to school for two and a half and a bit less of days of the week or sometimes it's three to four days

Starting point is 01:08:26 but what they do is they have non they'll have like art class music class and those classes that don't count towards the curriculum so your kid or they sometimes some of them break it up So your kids in school, literally five days a week, but it's not school. It's an enrichment program. Okay. So they go to an enrichment program. They're there for many hours every day. And they come home and they have, but they have to do at home at least 51% of the math, English, and course studies.

Starting point is 01:08:54 And sometimes like a hybrid of like homeschool slash. Yeah. You know, I have a lot of friends. I haven't talked about this for, but I have a lot of friends that do pods now. They call them little school pods. And what they'll do is they'll just hire a teacher. The parents will hire a teacher and they'll get a group of parents

Starting point is 01:09:10 that want to just have their kids be taught by that teacher. And that's the only way I know out of it. But I think it's a great option if you want to do that. So I want to know what you tell people when they say vaccines are safe and effective. What's your answer to that? Well, I'd say, well, I mean, I'd say, look, if vaccines are so safe,

Starting point is 01:09:33 and effect, then why do they need immunity? Why? Really? That's it. If they're so safe, why do they need it? And let me ask you this. Why, after the Heppe vaccine has been in the market for 40 years? 40 years.

Starting point is 01:09:53 Why do they still need it? You want to tell me 40 years later, you don't know it's safe enough to lift the immunity? Maybe you need it at the beginning because you didn't know. Now you're still on it. And then if that's if I had like 20, 30 seconds. And then if I had a little more, or if I just send them to resources. They can go to ICANN's website, ICandecide.org. And there's a one pager they could read.

Starting point is 01:10:16 There's a 10-pager. There's a longer version. There's my book. There's all those resources. There's, you know, but I mean, you know, but if you don't, if you want something short, just go to Ican decide.org and you go to the, and get informed and start with the one pager. That's easy.

Starting point is 01:10:35 That's a great way to direct people to that, too. I know you wrote about this in the book. Did vaccines save lives when they were introduced? So let's talk about measles, for example. So most vaccines, even the ones required for school, they don't prevent transmission. So they're really just personal protection, okay? I know that sounds shocking to many folks, but you can argue with the FDA and CDC about that, okay? But a measles vaccine, however, can prevent transmission.

Starting point is 01:11:07 So the measles vaccine is an attenuated vaccine. So it's actually live measles viruses in the vial. There's a bunch of other stuff in there, like billions of pieces, literally in every single injection of DNA from the cultured cell I'm in abort a fetus in every single injection. Because they have to grow viruses on a cellular medium. Viruses grow in cells. So in, you know, for like, for one of the components of the MMR vaccine, that includes the measles vaccine, they grow it on the cultured cell line of an abortive fetus. Now, let's put that aside. It replicates after its injection, not as, and it gives you a form of immunity that can prevent transmission.

Starting point is 01:11:51 Now, with that said, since it can prevent transmission, obviously it can prevent you from getting clinical measles, right? the disease, forget the infection, it also prevent you getting the infection and the disease, and hence it could save lives for measles. Absolutely. Because if you're not getting infected with measles, you wouldn't have disease. And in the United States right now,

Starting point is 01:12:15 measles virus is not what they would tell, endemic, meaning it's not circulating freely. Yeah. And that's probably the vaccine that did that. Now, those who believe in vaccines, that's what they want to stop the discussion. They're like that. Okay, good, stop.

Starting point is 01:12:31 Let's go. No more. End of story. End of story. Obviously, if you care about public health in general, you want to look at the full picture, right? You don't just stop there. And you have to then say, okay, well, what are the benefits and what are the downsides of doing that, right? So let's talk about the benefits.

Starting point is 01:12:53 And since you brought up deaths, let's talk about mortality. I'll stick with just deaths. So, you know, most folks think that millions of people in America died from measles before this vaccine. I mean, that's like half a million people die in a year of COVID. Oh, man, there must have been more of that than measles, right? Okay. Well, here's the reality.

Starting point is 01:13:12 Here are the facts. And this is CDC's own data, is what it is. Chapter 7. Between 1900 and 1963, when the first measles vaccine was introduced, the death rate for measles in America declined by over 98%. over 98%, okay? Now, you could say it was a clean water, better sanitation,

Starting point is 01:13:35 could attribute it to a lot of things. And probably, by the way, you could attribute it to a lot of things that public health authorities did do. They could take credit for it on that score, but instead they always give that credit to one thing, the measles vaccine. The measles vaccine.

Starting point is 01:13:50 But I know for sure there's one thing that did not cause that decline. The measles vaccine, because it didn't exist. How could he do it? Well, if you're a believer, you know, you got faith. Maybe this is why it's a religion. You could believe it.

Starting point is 01:14:05 I still hear it all the time. Okay. Anyway, so that gets us to the late 50s, early 60s. How many people were dying at that point for measles? Around 400 a year. Every death's a tragedy, but that's nowhere near what they lead you to think. That amount, and remember, this is at a time where every American got measles. It was end up.

Starting point is 01:14:24 The Brady Bunch, the Brady Bunch show. Where they were laughing about it. Yeah. And I know everyone, like, says, oh, that's just a TV show, but that shows you where society was at that time and how they thought of the measles. Oh, don't worry. In 30 years from now, you remember chicken pox.

Starting point is 01:14:38 Oh, yeah. We had chicken pox parties when I was a kid. I did, too. Yeah. And I assure you, in 30 years from now, the way people think of measles today, they will think of chicken pox. Wow.

Starting point is 01:14:47 Mark my words. And they're working on that, too. Go look at some of the literature about chicken pox. You'd think it was like the bubonic plague. Okay. With that said, that amounts to one in 450,000 Americans dying a year from measles. Okay, that's quite different than what they lead you to believe, that everyone's dying. All right.

Starting point is 01:15:07 So we have a declining mortality. As the U.S. population was exploding from 1900 to the 1960s exploding, you had mortality declining. So most likely even as population increased in the U.S. after that, you probably had a continuation of that a decline. It probably would have kept going. In fact, when you look at other countries that introduced the measles vaccine a little later, it continued to decline. Like in England, they introduced it in 1968. Now, it's only five years later, but their mortality had declined by over 99%.

Starting point is 01:15:37 Oh, wow. So they were, so what would have continued to happen probably, most likely, was that measles would have continued to decline, I think, in the same way many other pathogens, their pathogenicity over time for one reason or another, or the population's susceptibility, one of the two, right, continue to go in the direction of reduced mortality. And when you look at like scarlet fever and so many other pathogens,

Starting point is 01:16:05 they tried to create a vaccine. They failed. There's no vaccine, and those things are, you don't even hear about them today. Yeah, that's a great point. But had they developed the vaccine, let me tell you something. You'd be hearing about scarlet fever and how everybody's going to die if you don't get your scarlet fever vaccine,

Starting point is 01:16:21 and it's going to come roaring back. But by introducing the vaccine, they broke that natural ecology. So let's just assume that measles vaccine saved 400 lives a year. Even though that would ignore the trend in what was occurring in terms of mortality of that pathogen.

Starting point is 01:16:42 Okay? But we'll do a little believing, 400 a year, okay? Studies that have looked at populations that have had measles versus those that haven't have found, those that have had measles have far less deaths from cardiovascular disease and cancers. 800,000 Americans die year from heart disease. 800,000, a 22-year prospective study in Japan

Starting point is 01:17:12 that tracked 100,000 Japanese found that after 20 years, there was a 20% decline in mortality from hearty vascular disease amongst those that had measles and mumps. Wow. Think about that. If that is true, and that is a prospective study, that is, of a large population in 20 years, it wasn't retro, it was involved in the Japanese government. Like, this was a serious study and looked at lots of other things, too.

Starting point is 01:17:37 Then 20% would mean 160,000 deaths. Obviously, even if it was 1%, and I will do it by life years, right? Because a child dying versus an adult or different life years, you're still upside down from a public health perspective. Those who have had measles have a statistically significant reduction in Hodgkins and non-Hodgans lymphoma. That kills 20,000 people a year in America, many of them children. Wow.

Starting point is 01:18:05 66% increase rate if you haven't had measles for Hodgkins lymphoma and non-Hodgans lymphoma and non-Hodgans was an increase of about 166%. Those are massive increases. They were statistically in the study, and there were small retrospective studies. But they were from major institutions. And the thing about all those cancer studies, and they're all in PubMed. You can read them.

Starting point is 01:18:25 They're just studies. Don't get mad at me. Trusts to science. They're pretty consistent. They show this consistency that these fervile child infections, when you've had them, you have far less rates of these cancers, half the rate of ovarian cancer

Starting point is 01:18:42 amongst those that have had measles versus those who haven't. Wow. And so, and there's a lot of, there's explanations that make sense as to why that is. The important point is this. It could be that measles, unlike many pathogens that go away over time, never left humanity for a reason.

Starting point is 01:19:02 It might be because it conferred a survival advantage. I'm not saying that for sure. I'm just saying that's what the data appears to reflect. So yeah, you want to look at the whole picture, you know, not just that one narrow slice. This reminds me, and correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe you don't know this, but I think that there was another, there were studies that they found that if children got chicken pox when they were kids, not the vaccines, but if they actually went through

Starting point is 01:19:30 chicken pox, that they had a lesser chance of developing cancer later on in life. I believe it was chicken pox. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. It's chicken pox. It's measles, mumps, rebella, and chicken pox. Okay.

Starting point is 01:19:40 So it's all under that same thing. Right. All of these furbrow childhood infections, like the ones, yes, they are. are. And they've explicitly found that the kids that get vaccinated don't have that same effect because they needed to have the natural immunity from what I understand, from what I read. Well, the studies that I have seen just compare those who've had chicken pox or those who haven't. Now, those who haven't, because shipping pox is endemic, were likely vaccinated. That's crazy. Right? Meaning they're unlikely to have not gotten chicken. I mean,

Starting point is 01:20:13 is so you know that's that is likely the case which you described okay it's likely the case in many of these studies that blew my mind that because especially when you look at rates of cancer exploding right now and everything else that we're dealing with chronic disease everything I just feel like if we let nature do its thing in some of these instances but oh my god I'm such a bad person for saying that and letting it move through the population we might be having better outcomes for overall the health of the public when it comes to cancer. I would say that these other issues. We at least need to be able to have that discussion from a scientific and intellectual

Starting point is 01:20:52 level. And to be able to study it. Without people getting hyperbolic. Yes. That's what's important because just putting out the data we just described will make some people very upset. Yeah. But it's just what the studies reflect.

Starting point is 01:21:06 And if there's a series of studies that show there's a wrong, I'd love to see them too. And I, you know, then so in any event. Well, to end this on a positive note, because I always like to try to give people some hope, we've talked about how we feel like this is changing. You've talked about you're working on the mandates right now that are, you know, in California, New York, and in the heart of states. Is there anything else that you can share with people that you guys are actively working on that you feel like may change the scope of all of this in the next five or ten years?

Starting point is 01:21:34 Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would say this. You know, when we started doing this, there were not many groups. I can, you know, is right at the edge in terms of supporting vaccine policy-related work and putting information out there through the high wire and so forth. But, and that information, you know, a lot of it, which I've written about and it's on the ICAN site, was cabined, right? It was censored, you couldn't get it out there, whereas now it's permeating, and you're seeing

Starting point is 01:22:12 more and more doctors, medical professionals, folks in government, elective representatives. They are beginning to become exposed to this information, and that is completely changing the landscape. I mean, already, I'll use my own personal experience again. I gave you the experience to the judges. Yeah. I would say eight, nine years ago, I don't know. elected representative that was really interested in, you know, running a bill on this issue

Starting point is 01:22:41 that supported individual rights and liberties or any other thing like that. We work regularly now with members of Congress and state elected representatives. I mean, we've represented 17 members of Congress in challenging mass maintenance on planes. We work with members of Congress all the time. There's about 400 state elected and related representatives that assigned something called the Medical Liberty Pledge. And if you go to ICAN legislate.org, which, you know, is different than I can just because that's a 5123, AC4.

Starting point is 01:23:11 So the legislate has something called the medical liberty pledge and politicians around the country have signed this, pledging to never mandate any medical product. Do you want to get them, get them? No government ever courts you to do it. So, I mean, that's a milestone change.

Starting point is 01:23:27 And it's just growing. I think that people are waking up. I don't think it'll take 10 to 15 years. I think it'll take a lot less. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. I think so. We're having this podcast right now, right?

Starting point is 01:23:38 That's true. And, you know, I will say I've been doing this podcast for five years, and I've only been, I really started to talk about vaccines in the last, I would say maybe a year and a half. Because, like I told you, I was scared to talk about it because I was like, they're going to drag me in the mud. My career is going to be over. I mean, people still question where I got my degree and my master's and all of that.

Starting point is 01:24:01 And it's fine. because I know that I'm right. And I don't mean that in a cocky way. I just mean that in a way of I said this before we were recording. We are early to the information that not everybody has been privy to yet. That's it. And I'll tell you the thing that I think is really going to strike home when people really finally realize it.

Starting point is 01:24:18 When you look at the chronic disease epidemic that is engulfing our children today, we have gone from under 10% of kids, according to studies in the early 80s having a chronic health issue to today over 40, some studies over 50%, and often multiple chronic health issues. And what are those? What are those other issues? They're almost all a form of immune system dysregulation.

Starting point is 01:24:41 Not obesity, and not some of the issues that resolve from obesity. But when you look at a lot of the other issues, like asthma, right? Exma, psoriasis. ADHD. People don't think about that, but it is a form of immune system dysregulation

Starting point is 01:24:58 according to a whole line of studies. Nobody thinks about it that way, right? If you go down the list, they're almost all related to some form of immune system dysregulation. What is causing the immune system of our children to go haywire and mask? Could it be? We've gone from three to 29 injections of products that they tell you are powerful pharmaceutical products intended to modify your immunity from your toe to your ear systemically.

Starting point is 01:25:26 And when you really understand how vaccines work, when you really understand how aluminum adjuvants in vaccines work, I mean, it's, I think you will quickly understand, people will wake up and realize vaccines are not the only environmental ill insult that can cause dysregulation and cause harm. For sure not. Yeah. Or unvaccinated kids that can have health issues because you can have. You know, any exposure that is harmful can cause harm, okay? Just talk like a lawyer for a second, okay? But, you know, and it can be exposure to chemical products, forever chemicals, PFS.

Starting point is 01:26:16 I mean, we do some of these cases at my firm. Oh, you do? I might have you back on. It could be, you know, you name it. I mean, fluoride is a no neurotoxin. And obviously what we have in our food, critically important, as well as what we've done to our food, important. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:34 But for the subset of, for the issues that are related to immune system dysregulation, the studies that compare kids with zero vaccines with one or more are pretty consistent, basically are consistent, essentially. And they show the kids who are vaccinated have multiple times the rate. of these chronic health issues. I didn't see obesity. Again, that's such an issue, but virtually almost most of the other chronic health issues

Starting point is 01:27:04 multiple times the rate. And I think as those studies continue to be done, because you can't stop it. And they get out there, that's gonna be like a damn breaking. They can only, they're trying desperately to hold that back. I mean, desperately.

Starting point is 01:27:20 It would be so easy for these vaccinologists and all those who support vaccination, to quote unquote shut up the anti-vaxxers. Just do that study and put it out there. I have no doubt they've tried. And the reason I have no doubt they've tried is that the Institute of Medicine in 2013, after being commissioned by our federal health authorities,

Starting point is 01:27:41 to review the safety of the whole schedule, said, hey, you never done a proper study comparing Novak, exposed and unexposed. That's the way you do science. Unexposed, exposed. How am I going to tell you it's really safe? and they said, but you can do it. It's something called the vaccine safety data link. So the CDC then commissioned a few hundred thousand dollars

Starting point is 01:28:00 to just get a white paper written by a bunch of pharma insiders, included, how to do that study. That was published in 2015. We're 10 years later, you think they haven't done it or you think they haven't published it? I think they've done it, and I think they just can't make it. They can't make it, they can't get the result that they want.

Starting point is 01:28:22 Yeah. That's what I think. I can't prove that, by the way. Of course not. I'm just saying, speculating, you know, because all those other studies I mentioned, they were all privately funded. They're not done by, you know, major institutions that have a vested interest that could be harmed. But again, to your point, if they had the data to shut up the anti-vaxxers,

Starting point is 01:28:41 they would be. We know that they would be if they had the data to do that. And can we just let common sense in the room for a second here? Okay. If we're shooting up babies that are under one years old with pharmaceutical drugs that they themselves boast that are having an effect on the immune system, why are we not allowed to say, huh, what are 29 of those doing to our immune systems? And then we're looking around and going, okay, all these kids are dealing with chronic ear infections. Okay, they're all

Starting point is 01:29:10 getting eczema. They're all getting autoimmune disorders and it's all going up. Gee, I wonder what we're doing with their immune systems. Repeat after me. Safe and effective. And repeat after CNN, hundreds of studies debunking and repeat after, you know, go, that's, but it's, but the problem is, is that they've lost control of it because, um, social media now and, and this, these kind of podcasts or people are getting their information. And they can't control that. And, you know, they can't censor this book. They can't take down I can't's website. They just can't stop that from coming out and people are, make up their own mind. At the end of the day, I don't, I don't, you know, don't, I hope the goal of this, my goal is not to make anybody say vaccines are good or vaccines

Starting point is 01:29:59 bad or I'm anti-vaccine or I'm pro-vaccine. I just want people to start looking at them as products. Yeah. They're just products. I'm not anti or pro this microphone. And I don't think it's good or bad. It just is what it is. And, you know, but I'll tell you what, I bet before you bought this thing, you probably researched which is the best microphone to use for this podcast. I'm guessing, yeah, all right, potentially.

Starting point is 01:30:24 And before people go buy a car for their kid, they go, I want, maybe I should look at the crash test

Starting point is 01:30:29 rating because I want the safest car. It doesn't mean you go to do a deep dive and I'll understand the exact

Starting point is 01:30:33 mechanics, but you engage it in that way. And the same way, people should approach vaccines that way. It doesn't mean they have to

Starting point is 01:30:41 become an expert in it, but they got to stop believing in them and start thinking about them. And I think in

Starting point is 01:30:47 many ways, the experience during COVID did that to people across this country. They started thinking again. They're like, wait, how does this work exactly? I mean, the, you know, because the regulations were so ridiculous, you know,

Starting point is 01:31:01 it did the job in many ways of waking people up. That's true. I think we had a great awakening about vaccines during COVID because of that. I have one last question for you. Sure. And it's, you mentioned PFAS. So actually, right before you got here, I did a solo episode about what's happening currently right now with the EPA.

Starting point is 01:31:20 Because a lot of people are really upset about this. Do you know anything about what's happening right now regarding PF, sorry, PFASs? So this is something I'm incredibly concerned about. And the EPA, I guess in 2024, they wrote some regulations around our drinking water. And they specifically wrote regulations around six different forms of them. The most harming ones are the PFOAs, I believe, in the, what's the other one? I have it written down somewhere. Anyways, now everyone's super mad.

Starting point is 01:31:50 because apparently the Trump administration, the EPA, is rolling back regulations on the drinking water. Do you know anything about that? Not enough that I'd want to talk about it. I'd want to talk about it. I mean, because, you know, I'm familiar, I am familiar with it, but I really do focus my effort on the items that the government takes away your rights over.

Starting point is 01:32:12 Yeah. I mean, PFS are bad. Oh, they're really bad. They're really bad. Horrifying. Yes. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, We're at the beginning of it, really, because the cumulative toxicity will, you know,

Starting point is 01:32:25 and the bad results will happen over time. And so we really do need to get that in check right away. But nobody's making you take a PFS. Nobody's saying you can't go to school if you don't inject PFS into your body. Nobody is saying you can't sue PFAS manufacturers, they are, right? And the government is not, you know, marketing for them. and the government's not conflicted in the same way. You can probably impact the EPA to do the right thing to some degree on this.

Starting point is 01:32:58 That's not to say, I'm not trying to minimize the issue of PFAS. But I mean, but I'm just saying it's the focus that we have is on the, it's when you really don't have a choice. Because I think eventually the market will correct on PFAS. I think it will. I don't think it'll be the EPA that saves us. Yeah. I don't think that. Do you think it's going to be market?

Starting point is 01:33:18 I do. I think there are a lot of multi-district litigations that involve PFS that are seeking to hold various forever chemical components accountable for the harms. They're complicated. Those kind of cases are complicated. Yeah. But eventually they'll come to, the more complicated, the longer they take, you know, a big MDL like that, that's complex to take 10 years. but eventually comes through. And the way that these markets often work is,

Starting point is 01:33:51 and I'm not going to say this specifically about any PFS manufacturer just in general, right? And, you know, like company puts out a drug or a product and so forth. And they identify a national. It's already in the market. It's already there. Sometimes what companies will do

Starting point is 01:34:06 is they will start taking money and putting it into a kitty on the side because they know it's coming to a head, but they ride it out until it comes to that. forced. I mean, look at GLP-1s right now. Oh, yeah. GLP ones. Look at all the lawsuits are being filed. Look at the issues. I mean, you know, those cases started being accumulated at plaintiff's firms around the country a while ago. Before, there was even probably much public chatter about it amongst the plaintiff's firms, they knew this was coming. And the company knew it was coming.

Starting point is 01:34:41 And over time, it's going to, you know, and eventually they'll be a decision in those cases, and there'll be a big giant settlement, and probably I'm guessing, I mean, I'm guessing that's what will happen. There will be potentially a giant settlement that will pay out for those injuries, but the companies will have made 20 times that amount along the way. And in the meantime, they'll ride that out because the ship's already sailed. And as long as they're math pencils out, it's a business decision at that point. Obviously, there's a lot of folks you're injured it along the way. But when that settlement happens, what will happen? You will read about it in the paper. And then all of a sudden, this reality shift will happen, but that reality

Starting point is 01:35:26 shift will never happen with vaccines in that way because of the immunity. Because they can't be held liable. Not in the same way. Wow. Right. Think about that. When you read about a car having an issue, the tires blowing up, it's usually because of a class action lawsuit. You don't, you won't see that with vaccine makers, virtually anything. The only really really really exception is fraud, but that is really tough to get the evidence you need to plead it and to survive a motion to dismiss. Because you have to, oh my gosh, I'm about to bore your audience. You have to plead it with particularity under the federal rules civil procedure, which means I can't just like, allege it. I have to actually have specific factual allegations to support

Starting point is 01:36:06 a claim of fraud to survive motion to dismiss. And that's really hard to have. You can't just make that up. You got to have it. So it's really hard, you know. It's in. It's insane. the company, how do you get it? But the beef that I have with those types of situations is then the pharmaceutical companies, they just pay out a sum. They have made billions sometimes. They just pay out a little sum. They get a little slap on the wrist.

Starting point is 01:36:29 And then they go about their day and they create new products and they never get taken down. They don't, but it's not always that way, right? Not all of them. Sometimes the judgments are massive. Sometimes the amount that payout is big. Not always. You're right. Often, but from the company's perspective, they don't know at the –

Starting point is 01:36:50 They don't know how bad it's going to be. Right? And they have to think about it like this from a Wall Street perspective. They have to disclose on their 10Ks and on their quarterly reports, so their annual reports, excuse me, and their quarterly reports. They have to disclose ongoing litigation and give an assessment. So if you're in Wall Street, you're like, oh, my God, they're being – they got this huge, massive, da-da-da-da-da for this drug and this, you know, that can hurt valuation, right? And so they don't want those cases pending of that. And they also truly don't know.

Starting point is 01:37:21 I mean, look, if you have a very aggressive plaintiff's firm on the other side who are leading the charge, who are just not going to settle for anything. But, you know, that's a very different outcome. We bring class actions all the time, okay? Defense firms all the time come in and want to just, you know, bribe you out to settle for the one individual plaintiff. that happens across the class actions landscape and i and you know a lot of firms they take that or the client i should say take that takes that you know and often the clients and the attorneys the

Starting point is 01:37:56 you know the attorneys can impact the clients um but uh um so it also depends on the aggressiveness of the lawyers there's a lot of factors that go into whether or not they'll be true accountability the point is they don't know what they're going to get and so i do think that the the specter the potential is there. And so they, you know, they are more careful at safety beforehand. And even afterwards, they tried to live in it or they're like already planning for the next product and they're going to roll this one out. They do do recalls. You see drugs come off the market. That is true. But you know what I was just thinking about is Pfizer, for example, that, you know, rolled out the COVID vaccine. They rushed it through the EUA, the emergency use authorization.

Starting point is 01:38:40 And then meanwhile, Pfizer, I believe it was Pfizer, paid out the most amount ever in history for a pharmaceutical company because I don't remember what they got in trouble for. But they got in trouble for something catastrophic and paid out the most sum of money than any other pharmaceutical company. And then they were just, quote unquote, saving our lives during COVID and just rolled out this vaccine and then made billions on that one. And then they're off making more drugs. And that's where I find it's not fair. No. It's not fair. And it's bad enough that they're big, massive, powerful actors. It is the height of absurdity and immorality that when it comes to drugs and especially vaccines, not only do these parents who've got a vaccine injured child need to fight against industry, which they can't, because they're shielded.

Starting point is 01:39:37 so they're punching a wall. That's what they're doing. They've got to fight against the federal government. Think about that. Nobody, nobody is there. If you're injured by vaccine, as I said earlier, who do you see? You see the secretary of HHS, right? So when we bring those cases, and like I said,

Starting point is 01:39:53 you have your hands hide behind your back as the lawyer, because in a normal case, how do I prove this drug cause an injury? Often I proved it by getting the internal documents of the company and deposing the company representatives and their scientists. Can't do that. in vaccine court. But I still have to prove causation.

Starting point is 01:40:10 There is no other product where the government represents the interests of industry and fights against the injured consumer that I'm aware of. Think about that. That's what happens with vaccines. And by the way, when you sue the Department of Health and Human Services, they use a little law firm.

Starting point is 01:40:29 You might have heard of them. They're called the Department of Justice. Okay? Happen to have all our money. And that's who we fight against. literally the DOJ. Think about that. Who's the DOJ to protect?

Starting point is 01:40:40 You? An injured family? No. They're there to crush that injured family. And they do. That is the way they approach these cases, in my opinion. You don't go into VICP program to the vaccine, and there's this, okay, let's try to help this family out.

Starting point is 01:41:01 No, the DOJ fights you, tooth and nail. you, the citizen, the injured family in a system that's, you know, that's a whole not the show. Let's leave it along. Yeah. Oh, God. I could talk to you for hours. Thank you so much for this. Is there anything else before we go that you feel like we didn't cover that the audience really needs to hear?

Starting point is 01:41:22 Well, look, I'll just say this, that, you know, whether you love vaccines or you hate vaccines, whether you love masks, you hate them, whatever, I really would like people to truly appreciate how important the right to inform consent is. It's so critically important, okay? Because, and I view it akin to on par with the right to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, and I'll tell you why. Let's say you love every vaccine. Great. You love every mask mandate? Great. You love any other their mandated medical product. But what happens when the day comes for anybody out there watching

Starting point is 01:42:09 this? Where the government says, you know what? I am going to require now X. And if you don't get that medical product, you don't get that medical procedure, you can't go to school, you can't get a job, you can't go on public transport, you basically

Starting point is 01:42:25 get to be by yourself in your house. So what good are your rights? What are good are all those rights if you're basically a prisoner in your own home? And that's why the right to inform consent is so critical. Hate vaccines, love vaccines, whatever. Ideally, you just think about vaccines, okay? They're just products. But, you know, be careful because the right you see to the government today

Starting point is 01:42:48 is often not a right you get back later. And so, you know, this right, you know, is so critically important. And my hope is that everybody begins to appreciate that right. However their position is on the science, the data, on the products. because your body, your body, my body are kids' bodies, future kids' bodies, you know, everybody out there, your bodies, they're the commodity on which pharma makes its profits. Yep. Okay?

Starting point is 01:43:19 The more they can control that commodity, meaning the more they can control what gets injected, ingested, and put on that commodity, the more of money they can make. And so they have a pecuniary interest to affect legislation, which they do, and judicial decisions to control it. They don't spend money on ads to promote their vaccines like car companies do. They use their money really wisely. They're smart. They use it to affect legislation, judicial outcomes, go down the list, trusted intermediaries, doctor conferences, medical journals, medical schools. to continue to perpetuate the belief that everyone must partake.

Starting point is 01:44:07 And if you don't, you must be excluded from society. They create this idea. They perpetuate it. That's the marketing. Not the reality. That's the marketing. But people believe it. And it's, you know, and so people like run into, you know, with that belief, they're like,

Starting point is 01:44:24 yes, take away my rights and my kids' rights. Hey, listen, you want vaccines? Go get them. But stand for the position of nobody should be compelled to get them, ever, under coercion. Otherwise, it's destructive to inform consent. Persuade people on the merits. And if you can't, that should be the end of the discussion. And if you look around the world, Denmark's meeting, Norway, most province in Canada, Australia,

Starting point is 01:44:46 they don't have mandates for school for vaccines. Oh, they don't? No. And most states in America, like the 45 states we talked about, basically have checked the box exemptions. So most parents still choose to get vaccines, even though they could just check the box. Right? Giving people rights does not mean that everybody's going to stop vaccinating. This is also the myth they create. It's a myth. Okay? They just want to make more money. Exactly. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:13 So who do the mandates hurt? They hurt those who need to not get this product. Those in California who want to get this product, they don't need a mandate. Those who've got an injured kid, a kid that died, a kid had a serious injury or some other complication. they can't get a medical exemption, okay? Because that's not the way medical exemptions work. They're not about medicine. They're a policy thing. That's who it hurts.

Starting point is 01:45:39 And these same families are the ones who desperately need to be able to opt out of these products more than anybody, and they can't. So it hurts of those who've already been injured, oftentimes, or who have some other belief that just prevents them from getting it. They don't want to engage in this one because of its relation to abortive field tissue.

Starting point is 01:45:58 you know, because they believe abortions immorally. You may not think that, that's fine, but they do. So that's what our country's founded of freedom, one of the basic freedoms. Exactly. So, I mean, that's what I would leave with is, is, you know, I spent a lot of, I spend a lot of ink trying to impress the importance of this. You know, that's really the end thrusts I'm trying to get to. Because at the end of the day, so, I mean, vaccines cause injury.

Starting point is 01:46:25 Of course they do. Why else would they be a licensed medical product? Exactly. Why else would you license them? Of course they do. Then they would be over the counter. They'd just be like food. That's why they're licensed. They hurt people sometimes. Big deal it hurts people. That's why it's a licensed product. Of course it's going to hurt some people. The problem is that this belief system has caused taking away the rights of those who need their rights the most. And it is one of the gravest injustices. that we have committed in our society. Again, see families. The problem is if we don't reverse course, it's only going to expand because the number of products

Starting point is 01:47:06 are going to continue mandating is only increasing. That business model we talked about, the injuries are going to increase and the need to more and more crushed rights is going to increase because that's what governments do when they can't persuade you in the merits. A little coercion, more coercion, can't go to school, censor you.

Starting point is 01:47:23 And we saw it during COVID, and we're going to end up going on that path if we continue down this on this road without respecting informed consent as a true fundamental right in this country. Which is so concerning, and I want to just point this out. So Del and I were talking about this,

Starting point is 01:47:39 and he brought up this great analogy and he said, if I filled a stadium full of people, I could not find a single piece of food that somebody in that room wouldn't have a reaction to. And so you think about this, you take it a step further and say, okay, we're just going to mandate peanut butter for everybody. People are going to die.

Starting point is 01:47:54 There are people that go into anaphylactic chalk from peanut butter. And there's not a single food or injection or product or thing that you put on your body lotion or whatever that one person is not going to have a reaction to. And so to act like we can just mandate this and say, oh, they're safe and effective. No one's ever going to have an issue with it. You are forgetting the bioindividuality in people and that people have different genetic makeup and they have different reactions to different things. And you can't just mandate something like this because then people that will actually be harmed by this stuff lose their rights. Yeah, but I don't need a stadium analogy.

Starting point is 01:48:28 I've got to tens of thousands of people that contact our law firm. Wow. Boom. Mike drop. We can end it on that. Okay. Please let everybody know where they can find you. And then obviously, please, everybody go find his book, Vaccines, Amen. It was an amazing resource.

Starting point is 01:48:41 Sure. Well, the book's available on Amazon. As I noted, if those want to support our vaccine policy, the vaccine policy where our firm does, that would be I can't decide.org. That's the nonprofit that supports most of it. My law firm's website is Syria, lLP.com. And I mentioned earlier, you know, we help folks with all kinds of related issues. And I'm on Twitter, Aaron SiriSG, and I have a website Aaron Siri official.com that my folks

Starting point is 01:49:07 just created because they're like, you need something with everything. So apparently that's that. So I think that's probably plenty. And I'm on substack too. Awesome. Okay. Everybody go check out all those links and we will add them to the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on.

Starting point is 01:49:22 Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Real Food. Podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Frye. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider, patient. relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. If you struggle with bloating gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about digest this. It's the podcast hosted by me, Bethany Cameron, also known as Little Sipper on Instagram. I dive into gut health, nutrition, the food industry, and drawing from my own experience. I break down what's good, what's bad,

Starting point is 01:50:24 and what's the best for your gut, your skin, and so much more. I even offer gut-friendly recipes. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday, produced by Wellness Loud.

Realfoodology - Are Vaccines ‘Safe & Effective’? The Legal Debate | Aaron Siri

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