Realfoodology - Ask the Dentist with Mark Burhenne DDS

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

95: If you have teeth, this episode is for you! This week I sit down with Mark Burhenne DDS aka Ask The Dentist. We talk all things oral health and why we should care about it. One of my favorite things about podcasting is that I get to learn new things, and this interview opened my eyes to so many things about oral health and the oral microbiome. Not only do we touch on foods that are good and bad for oral health, we also dive deeply into products to use and to stay away from.  If you are a fan of this show, please don't forget to rate, review and share with your friends and family! Check Out Mark: Marks Website Mark's Instagram: @askthedentist Find a Functional Dentist: https://askthedentist.com/directory/ Mark's Book Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening Health Starts In The Mouth

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. Toothpaste is completely a man-made product that is a band-aid to our current situation, and that is to our terrible diet. Hi, you're listening to The Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Swan. I am an integrative nutritionist with my Master's of Science in Nutrition and Integrative Health, and I have been in the health and wellness world for about 15 years now. But it wasn't until about two years ago in 2020, that I really started to understand

the connection of our oral microbiome and our oral health to our overall health. I had never thought about it before, probably like most of you listening that not only do our mouths have a microbiome just similar to our guts and so many different parts of our bodies, but the health of our mouth really can determine a lot for our overall health. I have been so interested in the field of the oral microbiome that I have now had three dentists on the podcast. This is my third one. Today I talked to Mark Berhena. You probably know him if you are on Instagram as ask the dentist. He has an amazing Instagram page. If you haven't checked it out yet, I would highly recommend following him. This is how I originally followed

him. And I was so interested in all the things that he was talking about that I wanted to bring him on and have a conversation for you guys to hear all about oral health and why it's so important and why we should care about it. If you've listened to the other podcasts with the other dentists, I still would highly recommend listening to this one. As with every new guest, he brings such a fresh, different perspective. And I really enjoyed this podcast a lot. I learned a lot, which is one of my favorite things about doing this podcast is that I really, I learn a lot alongside you guys. And I'm, I really enjoy these conversations. So with that, let's just get into the episode before we dive in. If you are enjoying the podcast, I would ask that you please rate and review it. It helps me so much. And I really

appreciate your support. I hope you enjoy today's episode. This is really exciting. Organifi now has kids stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called easy greens, and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other one is called Protect. It's a delicious wild berry punch like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume them safely without any glyphosate in it. So let's break down each one.

The Easy Greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids' growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. It helps to fill in nutritional gaps aids in growth and development supports digestive health has a rich micronutrient profile and includes digestive enzymes this would be a great way to sneak in greens for your little one without them actually knowing that it's healthy for them and the second one which is the wild berry punch similar to kool-aid is called protect and it is to support your child's daily immune health with food-derived nutrients that work to strengthen their body's first line of

defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste and it's low sugar and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants, astragalus, elderberry and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about today

or any of the Organifi products, go to Organifi.com slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. Did you know that most cookware and appliances are made with forever chemicals? Yes, that means your nonstick pans, your air fryers, your waffle makers, your blender could possibly have PFAS, and yes, even our beloved crockpots and pressure cookers. I have actually been talking about this for so long. Back in 2006, my mom came to my dorm room and made me get rid of all my nonstick pans because she was concerned about me being exposed to something called Teflon. Teflon

is a coating that is used on nonstick pans and a lot of these appliances that I just named. So I've avoided Teflon, nonstick, PFA coated appliances, pots and pans, you name it for a very long time. And the only option for a very long time was just stainless steel pots and pans. So I was really excited when a company like our place came out because they started creating really beautiful cookware and appliances that are like pieces of art. Every appliance that I have from our place, I legit want to store it on the counter. And I'm the type of person that does not want anything on my counter because I like it to look really just clean and minimal. But I'm so obsessed with all the our place products that I have so many of them displayed on my counter because they are legit pieces of art. Our place is a mission

driven and female founded brand that makes beautiful kitchen products that are healthy and sustainable. All their products are made without PFAS, which are the forever chemicals, and also made without PTFE, which is Teflon. If a company is not outwardly stating that they don't use these chemicals, then if they are using nonstick coating on their appliances, they are absolutely using forever chemicals. And there's been increasing global scrutiny for their impact on the environment and our health. And recognizing this impact impact the EU plans to prohibit PFAS by 2025. Our place has always been PFAS free and they offer durable toxin-free ceramic coatings ensuring a healthy safe cooking experience and let me tell you you guys they are changing the game with non-toxic appliances. They have a blender,

they have an air fryer, they have a crock pot. Not to mention, they're amazing always pan. They have a perfect pot, which is just the perfect size for soups. And they also just came out with a cast iron that I am loving as well. And I more recently replaced all of the bowls and plates in my kitchen because I really needed an upgrade. My other ones were so old. So I got some from our place and they are so beautiful. The ceramics are beautiful. The colors are amazing. Like I said, everything is

like a piece of art. If you want to try any of the products from our place, go to fromourplace.com and enter my code realfoodology at checkout to receive 10% off site-wide. That's fromourplace.com code realfoodology. Our place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. Let's just dive into this mark. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. How are you doing? I am great. I'm very excited to be here. This is great. We're both in California. We both like food. What more is there to be concerned about? Right? Exactly. Well, I'm really excited to dive into this with you because I think, at least for me, with my journey of getting into health and looking at the body and the effects of the body,

you know, the effects of a diet on our body and just how everything is connected. I only more recently in the last couple of years even became aware that our mouth has a microbiome and that there is that systemic connection to your oral health, to your overall health. Can we kind of dive into that a little bit and talk about why oral health is so important? Definitely. And I'm always so glad that someone's asking the health of the mouth and oral health kind of get tucked, you know, to the, to the side because it's just the mouth. It's just dentistry. It's, it's a cosmetic issue. You know, it's just the mouth. It's just dentistry. It's a cosmetic issue. You know, it's just the look of your smile. And of course, it's way, way more than that. It's oral

health really contributes to overall health, systemic health. And the two are intertwined. And unfortunately, medicine and dentistry are practicing alongside each other, but not really collaborating. So it's important to understand what the oral microbiome is. I usually start off with that because that's kind of the basis for oral health. And then I get into how that kind of relates to systemic involvement. And that is called the oral systemic connection. So yeah, the oral microbiome, it's something pretty new. I mean, of course, the gut microbiome, you know, is the big boy and is very popular now. But that also is rather

recent. I think at the turn of the century, 2004, 2005, then came the oral microbiome. There are other biomes. And, you know, a biome is that, you know, term, the biota. And of course, it's micro because it all has to do with small cells, bacteria, fungi, yeast cells, viruses. These things live in us and on us. There's a skin microbiome. There's the oral microbiome. The oral microbiome, of course, is connected. It's upstream of the gut microbiome. The gut microbiome is the big one. The oral microbiome is second in size. I don't think there's any importance there. And then, of course, the oral microbiome is broken up into lots of little niches, you know, under the tongue, on the tongue, in between the taste buds, you know, behind the second molar, in the pocket, the gum pocket, in the saliva. And the oral microbiome also, in terms of geography, includes the nasal passages, eustachian canals, everything down into the esophagus, so the lower

throat, the middle and upper throat. These are all areas of the oral microbiome. So what is the biome? The way I, big picture, that kind of the meta view of this would be we are super organisms. We are not human. We are part human. And then there's this other part of us that we cannot live without. In fact, they just did some tests. I don't know how they do this and I feel bad saying it, but they removed the gut biome of test mice or rats and they lasted less than a week. And so this foreign DNA, this is not human DNA, is in us and on us and they're not taking a ride. It's not like lichen on a tree. I mean, it's part of us. It makes us survive and withstand the external environment, the epigenetics of poisons from food, bad air, viruses, disease,

COVID, you know, type stuff, breathing it into your nose, through your mouth, ingesting it. So it's a very important part of our overall health. And of course, if it is mistreated, it goes bad. And then you start seeing, you know, gut problems, oral health problems. And that's where really what that's what oral health is, whether it's good or bad. It is the state of the oral microbiome. So this and it's a combination of human proteases and enzymes, for example. You know, there is some digestion that the oral microbiome is when you eat, when the mouth eats and consumes food, it takes in the food, digestion starts in

the mouth. But it's, you know, the oral microbiome, these foreign bugs are doing some of that digestion and they're producing things like nitric oxide. But there's also human DNA that's, you know, human bugs that are helping with digestion and fighting off viruses. But it's really, the point is, is that's a combination of the two. It's that synergy, symbiosis, maybe that's more of a plant term. But it's us getting along with that other organism making us a super organism. I mean super, like healthy, great, better than just the pieces. And I think that's kind of – I just kind of started looking at myself that way about five, six years ago as a super organism. And I think that's just absolutely mind-blowing and what first put the importance of oral health on the map for me is I was following a woman very beginning of 2020 when everything started unraveling.

And she started posting these studies of the connection to a worse outcome of COVID to having disease in the mouth. And then it just started, you know, it was like pulling a string. It just unraveled for me where I was like, wait a second. I had never thought about having disease in your mouth could have such a detrimental effect on your overall health. And you mentioned something earlier that I think is so interesting that I had never thought about that I want to point out to our listeners is that we have two separate insurances. So our healthcare does not even recognize that the mouth, it's like we put it in a different box and we don't even recognize like, wait a second, but the mouth, it's like we put it in a different box and we don't even recognize

like, wait a second, but the mouth is a very integral part of our health because I kind of think that to a certain extent, people are like, yeah, you know, I should go get my teeth cleaned and whatever. But we don't really think past that. We don't think like, oh, you know, I probably should get my mouth checked out because this could actually lead to heart disease down the line or could really have an effect on my health. That's a great illustration of the problem. I mean, we treat even on a financial basis and a reimbursement basis, third party basis, it's in a completely different category. The insurance companies have different departments. There's dental insurance and then there's medical insurance. And that's nuts. But doctors practice in a vacuum and dentists do too.

So, I mean, maybe that was the egg and the chicken came later where the third party said, well, OK, they're both doing their own thing. It's really sad. And really what it's led to is a lot of health issues and a lot of increased cost in our Western, well, in the U.S. healthcare system. There are plenty of studies out there that, at least 15, 20 years old, that show that if health, oral health is addressed in a more global perspective, and I can give you specifics if you want, but these are big studies, 150,000 participants. Actually, one of the big insurance companies, Aetna, funded it and used their participants in their insurance plan.

So these were really well-insured, healthy people. that when you address health care, oral health, that the cost of overall systemic care or the need for that care goes down by, depends on the study, 24 to 26 percent. And if you do the math, and I had to do the math, and I hope my numbers are correct, but I based it on what the Medicare costs are in this country. Last year, I think I calculated this, that came out to be that 24% in savings. That was a $7 billion savings. So what are we doing? I mean, the insurance companies, I'm not sure it's their fault. By the way, the insurance product for dentistry is more profitable per user. I mean, not in overall dollars, but because you can really, it's not really insurance. They cap it at $1,500, $2,000. So the actuaries, this is a perfect product that the actuaries

love because they can quantify it and predict what the utilization will be because they've capped it, right? And so then they come up with the monthly payment. Usually a corporation pays that for the employee, and it's an ideal product. It's not so with medical, even though they've put caps now on medical. But years ago, there was no cap if you got into a car accident. And that's where it gets difficult. And that's where the profit is variable. So I don't see it going away soon, unfortunately, because it is a very profitable product, very predictable for these third parties. But it's a great point you bring up. That's a great way to show or illustrate the problem is that these are same body, all interconnected, mouth to body, vice versa.

They're not separate systems, but how we treat it, the people who treat it, their training, the curriculums for it, and the third-party payment system, all separate, very little crosstalk between the two. Yeah, it's just unfortunate because there's a missed opportunity there to really help people better their health. But I feel the same way about our healthcare system. It's the same way. Eventually at some point, we're going to have to overhaul our healthcare system and start truly from the medical healthcare perspective, recognizing the body as, you know, symbiotic, as everything works together, because we still, we see this in healthcare too, where, you know, we have all these different doctors for all these different things. And while I do think that's important, we also need to be teaching doctors in medical school, the importance of the connection

of everything, because you can't, if you're having an issue with your thyroid, you can't just have someone just looking at the thyroid. It's like, okay, well, how are your adrenals? And how is your hypothalamus? Because it all works together. Right, exactly. And on top of that, start looking for and addressing and dealing with treating the root cause. In other words, going upstream. And dentists are guilty of not doing that. So are physicians. But that's where, you know, functional health care, functional dentistry, functional podiatry, functional medicine, that hopefully is one of the solutions to this problem. Yes. And I'm glad that you brought that up because you have

a resource on your website, right? Where people can find functional dentists. Yes. We have a directory. My daughter and I, who are, we're both the co-founders of our website and our Instagram presence and all our social media, we created this problem by teaching people to look and understand and address the root causes of their oral disease, how sometimes it is the root cause for a systemic disease. I mean, there are many different connections, but then they kept saying, well, I can't find a dentist that is describing the way you, and I can't, I try and have the same conversation with him or her. And so we had to provide a solution. So it's been a few years now. It was actually

right as COVID hit that we came up with this list and reached out. And we don't have a certification program yet, but it's been working out really well. I get all these wonderful emails just thanking us for, you know, A, teaching and then providing the solution. It's not perfect yet. We only have about 200 providers worldwide, but it's growing and it's going to help dentistry as a profession. So it's good. It's good for everyone involved. Yeah, it's amazing.

So outside of wanting a dentist that looks at the root cause, what would be other reasons why someone would want to find a functional doctor? Like, for example, maybe we can go into fluoride and also all the ingredients that are in like fillings and stuff that dentists are using that people may not be aware of that they are being exposed to in normal, regular dentistry. Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do, because all of us are concerned about aging. There is a class of ingredients called senolytics that were discovered less than 10 years ago, and they are being called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime. Now, when I'm talking about aging here, I'm not just talking about on a superficial level, wrinkles and saggy skin. I'm talking about

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patient can download, a physician can download, a dentist can download, upload, sorry, download is right, yeah. And then... It's kind of interchangeable. Exactly, right. And then they can print the letter out and then the dentist can fill it out. That way the physician knows, you know, how is the patient's oral disease contributing to overall inflammation, vice versa. So collaboration, I mean, functional dentists are great at collaborating because they are looking for the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is that oral systemic connection. For example, if you have gum disease, that affects your blood sugar levels. It can lead to early Alzheimer's.

I mean, these are big connections. I'm not talking about a little infection here or a cold or most chronic systemic infections. At least seven out of 10 of the big chronic diseases in our nation have some oral complication. are causative. In other words, Alzheimer's and heart disease can be caused by a dysbiosis or a kind of a situation of chaos in the mouth where the oral microbiome is not functioning well. Some of the bugs are out of control and growing too quickly. And so, yeah, so a functional dentist looks for this systemic approach. They address the oral microbiome. They're up to speed on the oral microbiome. This is not taught in the dental curriculum, even to this day. It's touched on, but it's really not focused on. The curriculum is full. I mean, dental schools want their clinicians to come out as safe clinicians and to be able to do the work, and I get that.

Functional dentists also look for the least toxic materials to put in the mouth. They also look for the root cause of oral disease. And so what you mentioned is if you're practicing with a functional approach, a lot of the things you learned in school, you're going to try and undo. For example, you're not going to put, when I came out of dental school, I literally just, and I had a kid in the chair, I almost broke down. I said, I just cannot put a metal filling into this kid's mouth because I knew back then that this was an issue. I already had metal fillings in my mouth. A lot of those kids were my daughters. I had three daughters. Thank God they didn't have to have any fillings, but I prevented them from ingesting fluoride. The minute Catherine, co-founder of ATD, I mentioned her earlier, the oldest, the minute she was, well, actually a few weeks before she was born, I went out and

bought an industrial grade distiller because at that time that was the best way to remove fluoride. I didn't want my kids to be raised on fluoride, ingesting fluoride, even fluoride in the mouth, absorbing it through the oral mucosa. And back then I didn't have the data. It was really a lesser of two evils argument. But now I'm so thankful, so are they, that we didn't allow them to ingest fluoride because now we have plenty of studies that over 80 80, actually over 70 studies, that pretty much all agree with each other. And they're not all from the U.S. And some of them are funded by the government, the U.S. government. Some are funded by universities. Some are private from all over the world, Mexico, Canada, Asia. And all these studies pretty much agree that ingestion of

fluoride is not a good idea because it lowers your IQ six to nine points. So in hindsight, thank God, you know, I mean, and mercury fillings, mercury is a neurotoxin. Even plastic fillings have issues. There's BPA to be worried about. There are some, there is one filling out of Germany filling material that I'd like. It's called Adnera Fusion. We talk about it on our website. Again, that could change, but really only one filling that we can use that I know of. I mean, that's really sad. So why would you want to seek out a functional dentist? Because a conventional dentist, even though they may make a beautiful crown and provide clinically safe and gorgeous dental work, they're not thinking about that

because they're really not thinking beyond the clinical work, they're not thinking about that because they're really not thinking beyond the clinical work that they're doing. So that functional approach is important. Same thing for medicine in general. Before being put on statins or going down the road of having to take metformin or insulin for diabetes, we do now know, and we've got protocols in place in some hospital organizations where you can reverse diabetes through diet alone. I mean, why not try that first? So that is the functional approach. And it's beautiful. It's really very elegant. Would you say from a functional medicine approach that they also address diet to a certain extent? Because this is something I want to go into.

You and I had a conversation before we actually recorded, and I found it so interesting that we actually, if you eat really well, you don't actually have to brush. It's what you told me, because our ancestors never used toothbrushes and toothpaste. Can you dive into a little bit about the effect that the food in our diet that we're eating has on our teeth and why now we have to brush because of all these foods that we're eating? Well, first of all, our ancestors never had a toothbrush available to them and toothpaste. I mean, they had chewing sticks, anything that provided a lot of salivation. And I know a lot of people are like, oh boy, here we go again. We're talking about our ancestors. And I think a lot of us are very uncomfortable about that because we are not

our ancestors we don't live in their kind of environment and I get that but I always look at it as a kind of a basis for where should I be what should I be eating what should I be doing how should I be sleeping you know being out being out in sunlight, working out, being active. I mean, these are all things that our ancestors did and it really worked well for them. And we have the data in oral health and as in regards to our ancestors, we have some great data because calculus, you know, the plaque and the tartar that builds up on our teeth and then dries and you come across a skeleton or a skull, a cranium with an intact jawbone with teeth on it, we can pick up that. We can pick out all the DNA. We can find out what

they were eating based on what's in that tartar. I mean, there's so much we can tell about our ancestors. So I just want to throw that in as a disclaimer. I also want to say that I'm not advocating to not brush your teeth. I just thought this was so fascinating. While I'm saying this more for the listeners, I'm like, brush your teeth, please. That's not what we're saying. Just to let you all know, I brush my teeth twice a day. I floss once a day, sometimes twice a day. But there are times when I know I can get away with not doing that. For example, this morning, I'm here in Napa and locally, they make these nitrate-free meat sticks with organs in them and everything. And they're line dried. And there's a specific window where you want to eat them. And they're delicious.

So I chewed on two of those sticks, had a iced, freshly brewed, and then iced a green tea that was fermented. I mean, you really don't need to brush after that. That's a meal where the bacteria, that oral microbiome, will not get upset by. It will not, for example, there's a bug that we know causes decay. There's also a bug that we know causes gum disease. It's more complicated than that, but the strep mutan bug is a big player. And we all have these pathogenic, potentially pathogenic disease-producing bugs in our mouth. We have the bug that creates ulcers, the E. pylori bug in our mouth. We have yeast cells. We have all the players in our mouth. That is a normal oral microbiome, same as the gut microbiome.

But it's when the strep mutan bug becomes dominant that things go awry. And that's when the acid levels drop in the mouth. That's when the teeth start demineralizing, i.e. forming holes in them, cavities. And well, how does that happen? Well, if I had Captain Crunch this morning or Cheerios even, a lot of people think Cheerios is a healthy cereal. These are highly processed, broken down, bleached, enriched. Enriched means everything's taken out, including the good stuff, right? And sometimes they try and put it back in. That's a complete failure. But those, so it's whether the food is fermentable, easily fermentable by these bacteria, refined, high in sugars. These are the foods that create an oral microbiome dysbiosis. In other words, i.e., the strep mutan bugs becomes dominant and it becomes a bully in the mouth and it wreaks havoc.

And the other aspects of the oral microbiome that try and keep everything under control. There are cells, I just read this this morning, there are cells, the theory is that there are cells in the oral mucosa that keep, what is the bug? Oh, the Fusobacteria, which is a pretty pathogenic bug in the mouth. It keeps them under control. But if you start feeding bad foods,

certain bugs become big players, and that's when everything goes wrong. That's when you get gum disease. So diet is very important, and we talked about this. I think diet is number one. Dry mouth is up there as well. And then number three, so one and two would be dry mouth and diet. But dentists typically are, you know, not brainwashing you, hopefully not

brainwashing you, but they are blasting this message, what I call the holy trinity of dentistry. It's see us twice a year, floss and brush. That doesn't address the root cause of all the problems, and that is diet, dry mouth. The third thing on the list is definitely brushing and flossing, and we call that biofilm management. You know, if you are living in our current world, then it's hard to eat like our ancestors. And so that's why I still recommend that you brush and floss. The question is, how do you brush? How do you floss? And what do you brush with? But so, yeah, it's definitely not recommending not to do that. But we need to know, understand the perspective of why we're doing that. It's really a band-aid approach to addressing one of the root causes of oral disease, and that is diet.

Yeah. Well, I was shocked to find out, I believe it was from you and your amazing account on Instagram, that one of the worst offenders is goldfish. Yes. I like to pick on goldfish. Yes. And it makes so much sense when you logically think about it, because think about it, it's the, you know, becomes this sticky, like thing that gets stuck in your teeth. Right. Very finely ground up. It's already finely processed and then you moisten it and then the acid levels drop. And again, it's not just goldfish, but I pick on goldfish because a lot of parents think that's a healthy snack for their kids. And I can't tell you when I was in the city seeing my grandchildren, our little one, Jack is not even a year old and he's sitting in a stroller. And so we were there with our daughter and son-in-law strolling through the city. And then

a lot of other strollers come and you can see the goldfish on the tray that's built in to the stroller. And they're just constantly snacking. So it's not only how much you eat and what you eat, but it's the frequency of what you eat as well in the mouth. Because if you're constantly snacking on goldfish, then the acid levels are always low. The body's trying to fix that. So if you're going to eat goldfish, or let's say you're an adult and you're at a Christmas party or something, holiday party, and you're just going to have that one treat, get it down the hatch quickly, rinse with some water,

minimize that acid attack instead of snacking all night long on all these goodies. Because a lot of my patients were programmers and engineers in the Silicon Valley and they literally were sipping Coke all day long in their cubicles. And it's that frequency that prevents the oral microbiome,

again, it always goes back to the oral microbiome, again, it always goes back to the oral microbiome, from doing its thing. And its thing would be preventing that equilibrium of the teeth demineralizing and remineralizing. The teeth are dynamic, just like bones. And if the pH drops below three, actually it's four and a half, but commonly with really refined foods or acidic drinks, it's down in the 2.8 to 3.2 acidic region of the pH scale. And if it's there for a few minutes, fine. You can, saliva will neutralize that, bring it back up to its normal pH of 6.8 to 7.2 in the mouth.

You can swish with water. I wouldn't recommend brushing right after there's a lot of acid in your mouth because you're literally lifting off that enamel that's been leached off the tooth surface. Most people know that now. And so you have to rinse with water. So it's that frequency is and duration of eating is a big deal. And we tend to snack. We're snackers. And our ancestors, they had one meal a day and then they had to get busy. They were, you know, nomadic. They had a long trip. And if they did, they were, I mean, look at the Mongols. They were such a successful warrior tribe because they were tenderizing their goat meat under their saddle. And most of their opponents were eating rice and they were carb burners. So they could fight all day long.

They were fat adapted. I mean, that's not us. That's not us. I mean, so unless you're an elite athlete and your trainer has hired a good nutritionist and you know, it does exist, but only in extreme circumstances, the equation's flip flopped where most of us back then were thin, lean, muscular. We weren't even working out and we didn't have to brush and floss. Yeah. It's so interesting. Well, and I would add on too, if you're at that party and you have that snack, like the

crackers that get stuck in your teeth, maybe afterwards eat some carrots because carrots are good for your teeth, right? Totally. Fibrous, good prebiotic, literally scraping your teeth a little bit. It also, all that fiber neutralizes pH. There's a lot of water in carrots. That's when you juice a carrot. That's why it turns into a juice.

You know, fiber or no fiber, depending on how you juice it. But those kind of water-containing, you know, celery is another example. Very aqueous, high water content. Apples, even apples. I mean, yes, they have a little sugar in them. But those, it's, juicing is not a great idea. Again, that's a processed food in terms of oral health. But yeah, goldfish, definitely like to pick on them. I haven't heard from the company yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. I do get

flack from other big manufacturers. But we've got the data. It's easy to prove. Well, and it's also what you were saying, it sounds like another argument for, I practice intermittent fasting. And so it's a great, not only is it good to give your digestion a break, it sounds like it's a good idea to give your teeth a break as well, which I had never thought about. Totally. And intermittent fasting does. So anything that you see in the functional healthcare realm and medicine like intermittent fasting, it usually has an argument to do the same

or a reason why you would want to do the same because the oral health and the physiology of the mouth is connected to the body. It's the same system. So intermittent fasting is wonderful. I mean, and I used to be a snacker. I thought, oh, just having little meals throughout the day was a good idea. But that's not good for the teeth.

And again, our ancestors had one, maybe at best two meals, or they would just kind of pick when they could, when they had time to eat. Usually it was in the evening around the fire. I mean, it was dark and they had time. They couldn't move. They couldn't do anything else. They got in close because they were afraid of predators and other tribes, whatever.

And that was their main meal. And that was the only time they could cook. They didn't have microwaves. So intermittent fasting is great. Again, that deals with that frequency and duration component of upsetting that equilibrium of the body trying to remineralize the teeth. And again, remember, if you go to bed at 9.30, 10 o'clock at night and wake up at 6 in

the morning, that is intermittent fasting. Your body is digesting. When melatonin levels rise, as it gets dark, you're getting sleepy. You should give in. You should go to sleep. By the way, when melatonin levels are high, your insulin levels are impacted. In other words, if you're snacking and eating while melatonin is on board, let's say after dark, an hour before bed, a lot of people think, oh, that upsets your sleep. It does, but not for the reasons you think.

It's not because you have a full stomach. It's because you've upset your whole insulin glucose regulation system. And you're not going to be able to go into deep sleep, your body wants to fast, intermittent fasting happens. I mean, you could eat three meals a day, as long as you ate early, if you have your dinner digested by six, and you're eating breakfast at eight or nine, that's a huge fast. That's when the liver shuts down when you're in deep sleep that first big like around maybe midnight it depends when you go to bed but that first big zone of deep sleep

that's when the liver shuts down it doesn't have to detoxify anything in the body because nothing's coming in there are no foods you're asleep you're in bed your breathing rate is down your basal rates down that's when the liver can turn on itself and fix itself, detoxify itself. Well, and I listened a couple years ago, I listened to a brain doctor speak about this. And he said, another reason why it's so important is if you are digesting food while you're sleeping, your body is using all of its resources, all the neurotransmitters, everything on digesting. And what we should be allowing to happen is instead of it all being focused on that, all of your resources should be focused on your brain. Totally.

Because that's how they're, you know, it's logging those memories from the day and cleaning out old cells and, you know, the autophagy. Like it allows for all of that to happen while you're sleeping and resting. But if you're digesting, then everything is being, you know, all the resources are being taken for that. The brain has its own lymphatic system. It's called the glymphatic system. Again, we've known about this maybe for four or five years. And it's brilliant. I mean, that's why I think we all instinctually thought rest, I mean, sleeping meant repair and rest. But I don't think we really knew to what extent and you know, the liver turning on itself, the brain shutting down, what you mentioned about, you know, first you go into deep sleep, which nips and it takes away memories that it thinks are irrelevant to our existence.

And then REM comes along and consolidates those memories and gives them context. So, and that's why the staging of sleep is so important. So when you wake up and you were chased by a, like a mountain lion a few weeks before, you know what to do next time. You have a plan in place. That's what the brain's doing. Yes, it's detoxifying itself.

It's clearing out all the garbage. And, you know, the brain has a very high metabolic rate. It requires a lot of energy. Where there's energy, there's garbage, the byproducts of metabolism. And it has to clean itself. And that's why they've actually deprived people of sleep for as long as they possibly can. And you die within, I think it's four or five, six, seven days.

I mean, you can go longer without water and food. I mean, that's how important sleep is. So sleep is underappreciated in our society. Yeah, it really is. Speaking of sleep, why do people tape their mouths? You've mentioned this a couple times, and you said that dry mouth is the second most important thing we should be paying attention to. Why is that? Let's just look at it from the aspect of a practicing dentist and oral care. So as you just mentioned, if you fall asleep, and remember, you know, this is that period of time

where the body shuts down, that includes the saliva glands, you don't salivate as much when you sleep, your mouth falls open, you're not eating, so there's no water intake, fluid intake, and the mouth dries out within minutes. And that means that the pH will drop because the pH is pretty much determined by the presence of this neutral fluid, which is saliva. And when that happens, then if there are areas that are trying to demineralize, again, start a cavity, then that will continue while you're sleeping at night. It also changes the makeup of your oral microbiome. And it can create that chaos that I referred to earlier where certain bugs will become dominant because they can. It's like, okay, the door has been left open, literally. We can do our thing. It's kind of like Monsters, Inc. When the little girl falls asleep, it's a whole different world out there.

The monsters come out. Exactly. But, you know, there are good monsters, as we know from that great Pixar film. And then there are bad monsters. And by taping your mouth shut, well, first, we have to understand that not everyone can sleep with their mouth open. In fact, during the day, their mouth is open because they can't breathe through their nose. And that is part of the dental realm of understanding and treatment. It's called facial development, but let's not go there yet. But if you sleep with your mouth open, that's a problem. If you cannot breathe through your nose during the day, your appetite for carbs will go up because your CO2, O2, oxygen, carbon dioxide balance in your bloodstream has

changed. You're running around during the day in more of a sympathetic tone. You're more nervous. You're more likely to have anxiety and your risk-taking behavior is affected. And you're going to reach out for these instant bundles of energy like goldfish or some healthy bar even. Right. Yeah. There's the goldfish comment again. And anyway, so it's important. The reason, and I mentioned this in my book on sleep, but now it's, this was seven years ago, but now it's really mouth breathing or better yet, nose breathing has really finally gotten its moment. And I attribute that to James Nestor, who wrote the book Breath. Again, it took a medical journalist to put this on the map. And there are a lot of examples of that.

My favorite example is the Big Fat Surprise by, I forget her first name, Teicholz. She's a journalist. And it really shows how we went down the wrong road and how the food industry misled us and said meat was bad for us and protein that carbs are okay. And then of course, they upped the sugar level over the years. And so, again, classic example, same thing. We aren't good breathers. I mean, we're not breathing properly. And the difference between breathing through your nose and mouth is huge in terms of what it means for you personality-wise, what kind of job you have, inner relationships with other people, and, of course, systemic issues. And that's the great thing about seeing a dentist. We can deal with that right away. We can recognize that very early on, even from a conversational distance, a dentist can tell if you're a nose breather or a mouth

breather. And then again, I used mouth taping early on as a diagnostic. I would ask, especially men, I would say, do you breathe through your mouth at night or is your mouth open at night? And they would always find out what the right answer was and then say, oh, yeah, I'm fine. I can breathe through my nose. Well, I would just give them some tape, explain to them how to tape their mouth shut and ask them the next morning to text me and say, was the tape still on or did it come off? Were you looking for it? Did it disappear or did it affect your sleep? And that was a great differential diagnostic and told me what the real issue was, even though they weren't willing to really, either they didn't know or they didn't want

to have that issue. Interesting. So, uh, I'm curious just from talking to me, can you tell if I'm a nose breather or a mouth breather? And then also before I forget this, I want to, um, tell the listeners this. So I just learned this recently. So correct me on the timing because I don't remember the exact timing, but I read somewhere that if you want to test out, if you are able to, um, tape your mouth, do it during the day while you're obviously awake. And if you can breathe normally for, I believe it was five minutes without panicking and going into like a state of panic,

then you're good to do it. Yeah, that's great advice. There are a lot of people that fall in between the cracks. Remember that your breathing rate slows down as you go to sleep. There are a lot of people that can't tape during the day, but they can tape successfully at night because their basal metabolic rate has dropped, their breathing rate drops. People that meditate can take charge of that. But if you have an obstruction in the nose, and that could be due to facial development, that would be a narrow face, that would be a retronathic facial shape, grinding, clenching, narrow arch,

high vaulted arch tongue tie, didn't breastfeed as a kid. These are all thumb sucking, pacifiers. These are all things that affect the shape of the face. I always try and keep it very simple, and that is there are three boxes that develop up until about age eight. About 70%, 80% of that development is complete. There's the mouth box. That's the space of the mouth.

There's the airway box, and then there's the nose box. And if the mouth box doesn't reach its full width, then those other two boxes never grow to their full potential in terms of space. So then you become a very poor breather. Either you can't breathe through your nose, your airway will collapse, especially as you get older, and then you start suffering from sleep apnea. And so it's so important that you really see an orthodontist by age one or two, or hopefully you're seeing a dentist that can see developmental issues and treat it. Because if the face is developed, mostly developed by age six or seven, why are we treating all of our patients or having our kids go to the orthodontist when this facial development is complete, where we could have prevented it from being an issue. And of course,

if the face doesn't develop to its full width, that the arch form isn't, the jaw bones are too small, we still get the same number of teeth coming in. But then of course, as they come in, there's not enough room and we're faced with aggressively moving the teeth around or taking teeth out. That's the problem with wisdom moving the teeth around or taking teeth out. That's the problem with wisdom teeth. Those are the last teeth to come in. There's no room for them because our jaws are too small. They haven't grown to their full potential. And again, if you go back to the ancestors and you look at their skulls, incredibly wide, rounded, horseshoe-shaped arches, vaulted arches. They're not V-shaped're they're arched nicely uh no crowding it looks like they've had orthodontics but they haven't i mean and and so if that one box doesn't develop

correctly the other two boxes are impacted and we become again back to that other pixar film uh it's called wally remember wally we're all living off planet and we're floating around in those little levitation chairs because we can't walk, we're overweight. Drinking big gulps. Exactly. And I would argue that we all had very small airways in that scenario. And because we toss and turn all night, we can't breathe. And so mouth taping for me was revelatory. It was a great way to get to the root cause of what was causing sleep issues, but also gum disease that was untreatable, not untreatable, but couldn't be arrested and also decay, rampant decay.

Even though the patient was brushing and flossing and eating relatively well, they kept getting cavities. Well, you're upsetting that equilibrium between demineralization and remineralization for up to eight or nine hours, however long you sleep. That's not a good thing. And a lot of people that have dry mouth syndrome or can't close their mouth at night and can't breathe through their nose, they're thirsty at night. I have that in my form, my check-in form. Do you have a glass of water by your bed?

And a lot of patients check that off. Of course I do. Absolutely. What are you drinking in the middle of the night for? You should be in REM or delta wave sleep. And then when you wake up in the morning, first thing you should do is drink a glass of water because you have fasted. Yeah, that's a great point. Well, mouth taping has been put on my radar a lot within the last year or so because a lot of those biohacker people that I follow do it.

Yep. And I have been wanting to try it, but I've been a little bit nervous to start it. Well, and, you know, it's funny because I have Google trackers or bots looking for certain items, and one is mouth taping. And unfortunately, it always comes in, you know, around nine o'clock, eight o'clock at night. And the mouth taping bits that Google collects from me are always some kidnapping scene or, you know, something terrible with duct tape. And then but lately there have been a lot of physicians that have been pushing back on mouth taping. And they call they reach they criticize the tick tockers that are talking about mouth taping and they call, they, they reach, they criticize the TikTokers that are talking about mouth taping. And, and that's the resistance I got a long time ago. I literally had

to find and train an ENT locally to think like I was thinking. And that if we couldn't, you know, the patient didn't pass the mouth taping test, then well, the ENT would get a referral for the lack of the ability to be able to breathe through their nose and maybe even a sleep study. So mouth taping is very simple. I have some here. You just have to use the right tape. I prefer 3M Next Care. I'm not affiliated with them in any way. It's kind of a gooey, pliable tape. Of course, I have facial hair. You just put it on there horizontally. It's not a perfect seal. It's just a reminder. And the minute you need air, guess what? Your body is good at breathing, even if you're in deep sleep. Again, if this was like

a six-month-old, I would say no taping, although we have special tape for the young ones. It's more of a girdle with an opening in the middle. But at a certain age, that drive to breathe is so strong that the minute you open your mouth, let's say your nose, you can't breathe your nose, or it gets blocked, or let's say you vomit. That's what a lot of these physicians are talking about. rigorous, you know, involuntary kind of primal response to getting something out of your gut. And it happens quickly. And the tape is not even the issue. By the time the occurrence occurs, I won't be descriptive, the tape is not even on there. The mouth is wide open. I mean, and I always tell patients that are nervous, and by the way, the ones that are nervous and say,

oh, I can't tape, they know subconsciously that that'll never work because they know, and those are the patients that are dental phobes, that don't like the dentist, because I'm working in their main airway. I mean, if the nose is online, then I can work in the other, you know, area where air comes in. But if you can't breathe through your nose, patients don't like to be laid back. This is why waterboarding works so well. You're blocking the nose. You're pouring water into the nose and breathing becomes very difficult. And it's a panic moment. Think of that on a daily basis. And what does that do to you? It raises your sympathetic tone. It makes you a very nervous person, edgy, tired, exhausted. Your adrenal glands are always being taxed or

overtaxed. So if you can't pass that test of mouth taping, and again, it's perfectly safe, just don't use duct tape. You can vertically it's a reminder it that's all it is it's not a perfect seal if you if you were just to open your lips a little bit the seal breaks it's a reminder and if it's on in the morning you're fine if it's on in the morning and you tossed and turned a lot and your sleep was affected then you're kind of in between you're not getting enough air through your nose if it's not if you can't find it and you're digging for it in the sheets every morning, then yeah, I mean, you cannot breathe through your nose and that should be

addressed right away. Your blood pressure is affected. Your overall health is affected over the long term. You could have sleep apnea. So mouth taping is wonderful. It's a great thing that people, I don't like to use the word hack, biohack, because that kind of makes it seem like it's a little risky or faddish, but it's a great thing to do that you can do at home. It's a great tool. It's a great test. And we're all about testing at home and being up on our own health and wearables. It's better than having a wearable or a health tracker. It's cheap. You buy it, you use it for a few nights. And then there are people like me and many thousands of

other people I know that tape every night. I mean, I can breathe through my nose, but for some reason, when I'm on my back, the mouth falls open. There's lots of explanations for that, but why not tape? I have an aura ring. I measure my respiratory rate at night. It goes down. My heart rate goes down. My deep sleep is better. So it's important to be able to breathe through your nose. However way you want to do it, breathe through your nose, even during the day, if possible. I mean, that's what I've been doing ever since we talked about this. I've had my mouth closed. I've been consciously breathing through my nose. Good. It's a great reminder. So hopefully everyone listening is also doing that. So you have mentioned remineralizing the teeth several times. And I want to know, so I recently was talking

about Boca toothpaste, which is a hydroxyapatite toothpaste on my Instagram. And I'd mentioned that it's great because it remineralizes the teeth. It's a great alternative to fluoride. But I got a question from someone which made me realize that a lot of people may not understand what that means. So can we talk about why we should care about remineralizing the teeth? Remineralization. That's a tough one, yeah. Yeah. I'm like, wow, that was a hard one for me to say. And then can we talk about hydroxyapatite and why you like that as a fluoride alternative? Absolutely.

So the reason we need to talk about remineralization, demineralization, it's an equilibrium. It's a dynamic kind of equation that is constantly going on in our mouth. If you're living, it's going on. It's kind of like your bones. They're losing calcium and they're gaining calcium. It's the same thing with teeth, a little different process, but that's why it's important because it's going on so often, we need to know, we need to make sure that it's going well because if you're on one side of the equilibrium, let's say the demineralization, most people understand where that would go,

your teeth are going to disappear. They're going to dissolve. They're going to decay out of your mouth and you'll lose, you'll have incredible dental bills and you'll be in to see the dentist often. And there are plenty of studies that show that patients with fewer teeth and are normal allotment of teeth suffer from poor digestion, shorter lives. It's important to have that dentition. So it's important to understand what makes the equilibrium work for us. And of course, we want to be on the remineralization side of that equilibrium. So we talked about diet, dry mouth, but let's talk about how that remineralization process works. Well, there, again, it's the oral microbiome. Again, these 700 species of different bugs in our mouth that are all working

well together. And that equilibrium is kept in check. Again, it's pH based, but the actual players are in your biofilm. So that biofilm that you're scraping madly with your toothbrush to remove and to get that clean, slippery feeling, and maybe you're using oral products that will dissolve that or emulsifiers, surfactants that will thin it out. I mean, that biofilm is there for a reason.

These teeth are inanimate objects in the body. And when there's an inanimate object in the body, there's usually a biofilm on it. That biofilm is a living layer of bugs. And those bugs are pulling the building blocks of remineralization, which would be calcium, but it's also boron, phosphorus, and other minerals that we get from our diet. And that, let's pick on hydroxyapatite. Let's use that. That's the main building block. That is the mineral, the building block, the largest particle and makeup of teeth, hydroxyapatite. So it's biomimetic. So if you're using a toothpaste

with what's already in your tooth, it's not fluoride. Fluoride is not naturally found in teeth. It's not a nutrient, an essential nutrient. Then it gets dissolved in saliva and the bugs in the biofilm grab from that as a reservoir and pull it across that biofilm layer and provide it up against that surface that has to be remineralized. So if you're using the wrong toothpaste, that's definitely going to affect your oral microbiome and make it so that the bugs in the biofilm aren't doing their job. You may not have enough of that building block that's necessary to rebuild the tooth. The dry mouth, of course,

would slow that whole process down because you're demineralizing quicker than you can remineralize. And then, of course, diet. So hydroxyapatite is wonderful because we've been talking about fluoride. We've been using it. It's in our water. After it was put in our water, the toothpaste company said, ooh, everyone knows that fluoride is good for you. Back then it was. Without any study, it's all correlation. Let's add it to our toothpaste. But of course, they couldn't add it at the same strength that everyone was ingesting it at. So they just added a little bit less and then they marketed it as being an anti-cavity formula. And that is so far from the truth. The good news is that hydroxyapatite, which is biomimetic, it's a natural source. It dissolves in the saliva

and is in solution. And it's always there to be brought in by these bacteria that are helping protect your teeth. That's what the biofilm does. That you can swallow hydroxyapatite. It's already in the tooth. It's a like biomimetic material. It's wonderful. And I think the moment that I realized that we really need to start talking about this product. Again, it's been in use in Japan for like 30 or 40 years. The soluble form of it was discovered by NASA. They were looking into bone density and zero gravity and all that. And the Japanese market has had it and they've used it. It's safe.

The Europeans use it. It's just coming available in the US now. It should have been here a long time ago. But again, the US is the big fluoridation center of the world. There are more people drinking fluoridated water than the rest of the world combined. And it's all here in the US. So, but the moment for me was when I realized

that not only if toothpaste is being swallowed by a child, that's bad. When you go to the dentist and get that fluoride varnish, that's being swallowed by the child. By the way, that's quite a bit stronger than what's in the water, than what's in your toothpaste. And then why not use something that works as well as fluoride topically? That's what

we're talking about now. Getting it into the saliva, then providing building blocks for that remineralization equation to be working well. Why not use hydroxyapatite? Because it actually works better in some cases. It rebuilds the tooth smoother, shinier. It may actually whiten your teeth and it can be swallowed indefinitely. It's calcium. It's like taking a calcium supplement. The other thing that really scared me, and this is rather recent, is that the oral mucosa, this is the lining of your cheek cells and the floor of your mouth. That's one cell fit, just like the gut. It's not like the skin, but we all know that if you use the wrong sunblock with the wrong chemicals, that those chemicals were found

in your bloodstream within 20, 30 minutes. Well, it's the same and even more readily possible that all that fluoride gets absorbed through the oral mucosa. So any kid that's using fluoridated toothpaste, and then of course all the other chemicals, the pesticides, the soaps, the emulsifiers, the surfactants, all of that, all that is being absorbed and going into the bloodstream of your child. And guess what? Once fluoride, for example, is in the bloodstream, it gets into the brain. And then of course, we have all those studies that, that, you know. Because it crosses the blood-brain barrier, right? Exactly. Yeah. And the blood-brain barrier, for people that don't understand,

that's literally our body's way of protecting us from these harmful chemicals. But once it gets across that blood-brain barrier, you don't have that protection anymore. Exactly, right. And that's what's so concerning about fluoride. And this is also really important, another reason why we should be filtering our water. I talk about this a lot on the podcast. It is so important because you want to be filtering out not only the fluoride, but the

chlorine and the pesticides and the pharmaceuticals and all that. But then because we are so concerned about the minerals, like we were just saying, because minerals are very important to our health and for our teeth and everything, you want to be adding those minerals back in your water afterwards. Absolutely true. Yes. Very good point. And I mean, again, back to when Catherine was born 34 years ago, a few weeks before she was born, we bought that distiller. And then of course, we added the minerals back, trace elements, you know, I mean, boron, phosphorus, all these things that are important, of course, for the teeth, but also for the rest of the body. So, and of course,

you can get minerals through food. Everyone that says, oh, distilled water is bad for you because you've taken out all the minerals. Minerals don't just come from water. They come from your food as well. Unfortunately, yes, there's another argument that our food supply is very mineral deficient because of our soil and our farming practices and all that. And that is true. But, but, uh, yeah, I think distilled water is the way to go.

If you have a reverse osmosis device, that works pretty well, although it wastes a lot of water. There are countertop filters. We just switched our recommendation on countertop filters. For $30, $40, you can get a good unit. It's on our website. That filters out fluoride. And not all of them do.

There's only two that I know know of and we've only recommended the one because the other one actually they were finding microplastics in the filtered water so can you name that one yeah sure i can it's uh what was it a zero water and again i'm not this is this is independent uh information that i'm getting from an independent yeah organization that tests all this and the new one again it's either on our website now or will be soon. It's called Clearly Filtered. And they're both about the same size. Those little jugs, like the Brita jug, the Clearly Filtered one is rectangular, which I think is a better design when you put it into the refrigerator. It's square. It's rectangular instead of round. That's wasted space. It pours better. Filters are a little pricey, but, you know, the initial investment is $40.

I mean, and then you get, I think it's 200 or 300 gallons of really well-filtered water. So there should be no financial barrier there, hopefully. Because, you know, the big units, like the distiller that I bought from Canada, that was $2,000, and it needed monthly maintenance, which I did. And if you have hard water, you're cleaning out the steam chamber and reverse osmosis, of course, as you know, wastes a lot of water. There's a lot of wastewater. And of course, if you're trying to save water, like we are in California these days, or should be, that's a problem. But the countertop solution, it's there. You can, and again, I recommend that if you, before you get pregnant, make sure you're not ingesting fluoride because you never know when you're going to be pregnant. And then when you're pregnant,

of course, do not drink fluoridated water. It passes the placental barrier and then the blood brain barrier of your fetus. And then of course,, when your child's an infant, if you're mixing up formula. Unfortunately, formula has a lot of fluoride in it already. I think there's a German formula that is a lot of months. It's called Hall. Exactly. Or Hall-E Organic. It's H-O-L-L-E.

Right. So, I mean, again, advice I would give is to stay away from fluoride. Ingestion of fluoride for as long as you possibly can. And you'll have done your child a great, great service. Yeah, it's really important. So now that we know that, what are your favorite toothpastes? And then also favorite mouthwashes, or do you not recommend people use mouthwash? So I'm not a fan of mouthwash, even if it's got essential oils in it and it's very homeopathic or natural or whatever label

you want to use. I've actually had a lot of influencers call me. One was in New York. He burned himself using a very natural mouthwash and it was high in cinnamon essential oil and it literally burned him. He couldn't, I mean, his business is getting on Instagram every day. He couldn't do it for two weeks because of a natural mouthwash. Actually, I take that back. It was a toothpaste, but it can also be found in mouthwash. But let's say saltwater, which is pretty benign. And saltwater is a great way to go. I tell, if you have tonsil stones or if you have a sore throat, gargle vigorously with salt water. Use a super saturated solution of salt water. If you have canker sores, it just speeds up healing.

It's very friendly to the oral microbiome and the oral mucosa. Do not use hydrogen peroxide. That kills a lot of bacteria in the mouth. Very strong bactericidal and can cause a dysbiosis. A lot of dentists recommend hydrogen peroxide, unfortunately. There are a lot of mouthwashes out there that have pesticides and soaps and detergents and other chemicals in there. And bait coloring. Priclosan, even microbeads, which is now outlawed in California. But we were literally finding microbeads.

I have a, in my office, I have a big macro camera with macro flashes. And I was able to get these pictures. We were cleaning teeth. My hygienist would be, they would find them and they would say, Dr. Bahena, come over here, bring your camera. And these are little plastic beads that were in toothpaste. They don't get digested. They get caught underneath the gum. It can cause a foreign body reaction. And then they were finding them inside the gills of fish that were caught in the market. And this is, again, it's not a microplastic, but it's a small piece of plastic. It was outlawed in California.

I don't think it's outlawed anywhere else, but toothpaste manufacturers were adding it to their toothpaste to give it a little zip or pizzazz or something. I mean, these toothpaste manufacturers are out of control. They are harming the oral microbiome by this concept, which is not based on science. It came from the old snake oil salesmen that had the eucalyptus oils back in the 20s and 30s. And it was all about disinfecting the mouth, taking down the bacteria. You know, that bad breath smell or that bad taste, that's an infection.

No, that's a dysbiosis. And by doing that, you're making the dysbiosis worse. We actually have studies from 15, 20 years ago that indicate that a alcohol-based mouthwash can actually increase your blood pressure. How does that work? Well, it's killing the bacteria on the back of the tongue, for example,

in your oral microbiome that produce nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is needed to lower your blood pressure and provide a softer tone to your blood vessels. It's also antiviral and it really came to light during COVID. So they're providing products that are actually causing disease. So my favorite products are products that are oral microbiome friendly, and there are very few. The toothpaste that I've been recommending, and that a lot of influencers, oral healthcare influencers have also been recommending, are it's Boca and Ricewell. And again, they're not perfect toothpaste. They still have emulsifiers, even though it's not SLS, sodium lauryl sulfate, but it is a derivative of coconut-based surfactant. But they have hydroxyapatite,

and they have the right amount of hydroxyapatite. And that really, if you can get rid of fluoride and use a product that has hydroxyapatite in it, that is the way to go right now. And so we've been recommending that. Mouthwash is a waste of time. It doesn't do anything. Oil pulling does, but that's because you're swishing or you have in your mouth a natural surfactant. That's how olive oil or coconut oil works. It thins a lipid layer, which is what biofilm is, cells. It dissolves fats, but slowly and safely. And again, the only reason these toothpaste manufacturers add those chemicals is not, they have no claims that it improves your oral health. It's there to make big batches of their products so that their profit is higher. If you make it in small batches to make sure it mixes properly and you don't have the SLS or the

surfactants, the emulsifiers, you're going to get a very uneven product. And we're all very picky about our toothpaste. If it's too runny or there's a big bubble or it comes out watery at first, that's not a good thing. So it's very hard to make. Toothpaste is completely a man-made product that is a band-aid to our current situation. And that is to our terrible diet. And so, so there are a few I recommend. I would like to see better toothpaste and, and I am happy to report that something is coming. And as soon as I am aware of it, I will let you know. A lot of people have been asking us, I mean, hundreds of thousands of people have told me, put me on the list when something better comes out. And recently, something is coming and I'll let you know.

So, and if it's safe for your children, of course the adults can use it, but really we need a toothpaste that is oral microbiome friendly and won't harm children and help them get fewer cavities. That's what we need. So it's the opposite of where, and again, dentistry has been promoting it. I mean, we're just as guilty. I don't want to just single out big corporations. I think it was either, it was a chicken or egg thing. It's like, okay, dentists were trying to disinfect the mouth. Well, then the industry came in and said, okay, we'll help you do that. And then we're okay with that, but we should have provided, we need to be more evidence-based and we have the evidence. We've had it for at least 20, 25 years. It's slowly changing. And unfortunately,

it's coming from the, well, not unfortunately, but fortunately now we've got boutique brands that are providing good alternatives. But we need to take one more step more and I'll let you know when that happens. Yeah, please do. Cause I also want to tell my listeners. So we'll definitely talk about that on the podcast. You mentioned something in a conversation that we had before, and I'm so curious to know, because you didn't actually tell me what happens, what happens when you wash your hands with Crest or Colgate? Oh, you didn't try it? No. Well, so I don't, I don't even have that in my house. That means you have to go out and buy that stuff, man. I know. And I was like, yeah, I was like, I don't want to, I will tell you, I just get a kick out of this. It came up in our conversation and I don't, it's a YouTube video I did a long time ago. It's on our YouTube

channel, Ask the Dentist. And, uh, it just occurred to me one day, cause I was, I mean, I, I took a lot of food science in college before I did my pre-dent and,, you know, I know how things are made and I know about emulsifiers and the process of saponification and I know how it affects the cell membrane and all of that. And I just kind of put it all together. I said, okay, if this is in toothpaste, then a great test would be to wash my hands with Crest or Colgate. Those are the two I used. It was just their standard formulas. It was at my other house. I went in there, my daughter was filming me and I didn't know what the outcome would be, but I kind of had an idea that because these are drying agents and surfactants, that it would take off the natural oil that we have on our skin. I had no

idea it was going to be as bad as it was. My hands felt chapped, like for a good 50, maybe 120 minutes, they felt really strange. And I kept rubbing my hands like, you know, I had rinsed them. You know, toothpaste should be very soluble, by the way, it should be 100% instant, instantaneously soluble, it should dissolve, especially if there's a material in there that you want to be absorbed by the teeth, like hydroxyapatite. And it was just such a weird feeling. And then finally my hands returned to normal, but I would encourage people to take the toothpaste that they're using, let this kind of be a test, wash their hands with it. Again, the epidermis is much thicker than the oral mucosa. So what happens to your hand is very much so, even more so, happening

in your mouth on the oral mucosa. And again, this is a very thin, one cell thick membrane that's very permeable. A lot of things are passing into it, into the bloodstream. And if you upset that, you're going to get a lot. This is why people that use these products with SLS in it and other surfactants, they get a lot of canker sores. And recently in dentistry, last 10, 15 years, people have been, dentists now know if they see a patient with canker sores, ulcerations in the mouth, even a little chemisoritis right here, cracking of the lips, or a little dryness right here on the nasolabial line here, that's from the drooling toothpaste there in the corner as you're brushing, that's drying out your skin.

And the skin is tougher and more resilient than the oral mucosa. We're just used to the effects. I mean, I always love seeing a child trying a conventional toothpaste for the first time. And it's the same reaction every time. It's like, oh my God, what is that stuff? It burns. It's hot. It's spicy. It's like, oh my God, what is that stuff? It burns. It's hot. It's spicy.

It's terrible. And then the aftertaste and toothpaste should be soluble. It should be pleasant. And it should be gone in a matter of minutes or seconds. But unfortunately, that's what we're used to. And in fact, most of us are looking for that burn or that explosion, that nuking of the oral microbiome. It's nuts.

It's interesting that you say that because it's been a long time since I've experienced that, but I know that feeling that you're talking about now because I've been using natural toothpaste, thankfully, for a long time. But every once in a while, if I'm staying at a friend's house or on a trip or whatever, and I forgot my toothpaste and I use someone else's, I know that burning feeling you're talking about now, but I never really had thought about it. Ooh. Yeah, I know. It's amazing what we've become accustomed to. And it's also amazing what we see as being fact and for so long. And again, dentistry is evidence-based. A lot of us are looking that way. Certainly functional dentistry is, but the curriculum is very set in its way in many ways.

And it's based on discoveries and curricula and academia from the 20s and 30s. And in fact, when you're in dental school, you are taught to worship this one or two or three dentists that discovered this technique. But has it been revisited since? You know, that's the question. It's a great point.

Before we go, there was one more thing that I wanted to address. So I feel like it's important to point this out just because right now there's such a push for people to go vegetarian and plant-based. And I want to give a caveat. I always like to remind my listeners that I'm not here to judge or shame you. If you are eating a plant-based diet for religious reasons or moral reasons, I fully respect that. My only purpose to bring this up is if people are trying to do a plant-based diet because they've heard in mainstream know, in mainstream media that it's healthier for them. And that's the only reason I would ask people to second guess that only because there's a lot of different things that I've been talking about in different podcasts. But anyways, you said something on this subject that I found really interesting,

that you often see people who are vegetarian have swollen gums. Why is that? Yeah, that's a great question. And I don't want to get involved with the religiosity of, you know, vegetarianism and being a carnivore and all that. And I have three daughters. One daughter is a vegetarian and, you know, she does take krill oil and other things. And, but yes, so, I mean, we... Also, we don't have to go into it if you don't want to. No, no, no, no. I'm happy to.

Because I know it is a touchy subject. It's important. But to answer your question, which is a great question, there are hormonal effects. A lot of, for example, I mean, I'll just cut to the chase. A lot of women that are vegetarians have suffered from PCOS. I mean, it does not having an animal diet and a saturated fat diet does lead to hormonal issues. And, and I remember our conversation now, and it started, so a dentist can tell whether a woman's having her period, the, you know, a week before typically, because there is an increase in inflammation in the gums. And

the reason for that is there are hormonal changes that occur when, sorry, there are changes to the vasculature in the gums. And the gums are a very fragile blood supply. The only other fragile, thin, small diameter tubing, very vascular, dense tissue that I can think of would be in the kidney, in the glomerulus, in the Bowman's capsule. And again, that's for surface area infiltration. But those two areas, the gums and the kidney, that part of the kidney, get blown out the minute there's an elevation in blood pressure because it's a very fragile blood supply. And those blood vessels have to burst for there to be bleeding. And that is hormonal. So the connection is that diet can have an effect on your hormones as does your period or pregnancy, for that example. We have a term in dentistry called pregnancy gingivitis. And it's something that we get concerned about

because if you do have that or exhibit that, then there's a high likelihood or a predilection to low birth weight and early term birth. So it's important that your dentist recognizes all of this. And that's why prenatal advice is so important when it comes to oral health. A lot of women that go in that are pregnant and already have gum disease have a lot, have more complications. Um, it's important. So, but yeah, it's, it's, it's an important conversation to have, you know, and I think, um, sometimes people skirt around some of these conversations cause they don't want to hurt people's feelings. And of course, I don't want to hurt people's feelings, but I also think it's really important to deliver people

the truth. I mean, I, I feel so strongly about this conversation now because I was vegetarian for five years and no one ever told me that there was a possibility that I could have crazy hormonal imbalances. And that's exactly what happened. I think had I continued down that path, I would have ended up with PCOS because my hormones were so out of whack. And I see this a lot. Of course, it doesn't happen to everyone. It doesn't mean that it won't happen eventually. And again, I just, I mean, it's personal choice,

but I'm here as an educator. That's what the verb to doctor in Latin, the root of the verb to doctor means. It's not to heal, it's to educate. And it's not my place to tell anyone what to do, but it is my role to educate and let you know, here are the consequences of your behavior, your lifestyle, seeing the wrong provider, you know, this and that. It's just, you know, as long as you know what you're doing. And again, my middle daughter has a great answer for that. And her business, her online business is cruelty-based and she's doing very

well at it and she's committed and her excuse is it's worth it. It is worth it not to eat. So I get both sides of the equation. I was a vegetarian as well and it didn't work well for me. But again, it's a choice, just like smoking or abusing your body in other ways is a choice. And in America, that's a very sensitive topic and subject. But it's just good to talk about the data, the evidence. Where's that? And then after that, and maybe there's a solution there. Again, these impossible meats.

Oh, my God. Huge industry, lots of profit, and they're selling to the public an inflammatory food. Yeah, it's garbage. With industrial seed oils. Yeah. I mean, it's just, where does this end? It's corporate greed that misinforms us, and it's up to us to let everyone know that impossible meat, I mean, if you want to be a vegetarian, stop eating impossible meats.

It makes things worse. Well, it's not only inflammatory and just garbage for our bodies, but what people don't understand is these plant-based meats are coming from the same industrial complex that are causing the issues that we're seeing right now. Right. Environmental issues, ethical treatment of animals and our health as well. Because people don't realize that these monocrops that they're sourcing these ingredients from are killing all of the, you know, animals that live on the land.

They're killing all the insects. And so the birds don't have food anymore. Killing the soil. Killing the soil. So then it's affecting our health. And I mean, across the board, they're just, it's catastrophic what's happening right now. And then, you know, but we're seeing, because there's such a huge monetary push behind it right now, we're seeing a mainstream media like, oh, this is so good for the environment and it's good for your health. And I'm like, no. I know. I know. It's crazy. It's very human. We always, our solutions rarely fix the problem, but we get very excited because of some new data or a new product. And then we go down that path for a while and then we realize the errors of our ways and then we start over. And, hopefully it won't end up where that movie WALL-E, where we're in space floating around on a big cruise ship in our flotation devices. And, you know, that scares me.

Me too. A lot of people laugh when I say that, but we're not too far away from that. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, we're ruining our environment, you know, the planet, and we'll probably have to leave eventually. And our bodies will not be in good shape. Trust me. We will be compromised. And technology will probably save us, but what will the cost be?

Well, before we go, I want to ask you what I ask all my guests. Uh-oh. You're in the hot seat. What are your health non-negotiables? So these are things that you prioritize in your day, no matter how busy your day is. It can be lifestyle stuff. It can be diet that you prioritize, whatever it is that you do in order to stay healthy. Yeah, that's a good question. I've actually been asked a lot of things.

I don't think I've ever been asked that. Sleep is the first thing that popped into my mind. My non-negotiable is going to bed by 9.30, 10, or when my body wants to go to sleep. I don't, I used to push past that first impulse to sleep. And then my second wind was incredible back when I was younger. And that was a mistake. That's definitely a non-negotiable.

My other non-negotiable is industrial seed oils and a good diet. And, you know, I'm with family. And, for example, my birthday cake this few weeks ago was a French kind of torte with ham and cheese in it and mushrooms and a lot of butter. No Crisco or it was just pure butter. And the one bad thing in it was the flour. It was a French kind of breakfast tort. And it was just mostly protein. And it was funny because I was building it up to my four-year-old granddaughter. This is an Opa birthday cake.

And she was like, oh, wow, what is that? We put candles in and, and she went for it. She trusted me and we cut her a big slice and she downed that thing. And I had warned her, it's not going to be sweet. It's better than sweet. And, and so, I mean, that's kind of, I'm a purist. Exercise is another non-negotiable, at least walking. We walk after dinner every single night, you know, just to lower that glucose hit or the, you know, the regulation, blood glucose regulation. I would say sleep and diet are the non-negotiables. And I'm at a restaurant. I'm one of those difficult customers. I'll tell them how to cook the fish. You know, it better not be canola oil. And by the way, check your olive oil because it's probably mixed with a little bit of canola oil. And sometimes I'll go into the back of the kitchen and I'm here in Napa Valley and they're great. You know, they,

they really are there. They're great with customers and they let me go in the back and, you know, so it's, it's, I mean, to me, even one bad meal, which is not true, but it's a setback. And I've had so many bad meals as a younger man that I'm going to, by golly, I'm going to make up for it, even if it kills me. Right. So anyway, those are, the hope is that it doesn't. So those are probably my, and the other one would be downtime, you know, downtime and, and talking with people and relationships. But to me, downtime is so important. And my downtime is putting on a record and sitting down and reading or just listening in a dark room. And, and so, so those, those are pretty much it. Just, uh, it's all health based. I mean, why not? Right.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's where it starts. Yeah. And I love that. Mine are very similar to yours, so I can appreciate it. Well, for everyone listening, where can they find you and where can they find your functional medicine directory or the functional dentistry? So pretty much everything is you can find on our website, askthedentist.com. There's a directory there. There's an affiliate page. There's a list of products that I like. There's 10 years of information, that functional approach to oral healthcare, how it involves and integrates into systemic care. We've got our CRP letter there, the inflammatory kind of rating that your dentist and physician should both be sharing between them. I've got a podcast

that again is Ask the Dentist, our Instagram account and TikTok, which we've recently joined. Amazing how popular oral health is on TikTok. It's amazing, which is great. I'm really always surprised by how interested people are in oral health. And remember, only 50%, actually, it's probably, it's 55% of Americans see a dentist on a regular basis. So maybe that's the reason, I don't know. But the people out there are really into oral health. Physicians are, it's the little black box, let the dentist deal with it. But overall, the population here in this country, actually worldwide, they're really into oral health and they are really eager and hungry for this knowledge. So I'm always very pleased. But yeah, Ask the Dentist on IG, TikTok, podcast, and our book, if you're

interested in learning more about whether you may have sleep apnea and how it relates to, you know, why is the dentist writing about sleep apnea, for example, that's the first chapter. That would be just type in my last name, Burhena, or Ask the Dentist into Amazon and it'll come up. So yeah, those are the, and other podcasts like yours, which are fun to do. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been such a insightful conversation. I really enjoyed it. It was fun. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called heaven by the amazing singer Georgie

spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.