Realfoodology - Can We Make Health Bipartisan? | Fixing MAHA, SNAP & Food Policy

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

270: I sat down with Ryland and Mollie Engelhart, farmers, filmmakers and real food advocates. This dynamic brother-sister duo is at the forefront of the regenerative farming movement, which they’ve explored in the critically-acclaimed documentaries “Kiss the Ground” and “Common Ground.” We’re talking about MAHA (and where it can improve), rethinking SNAP to include whole foods, and the dire challenges facing local farms today.  Topics Discussed:  → How can we make health and nutrition a truly bipartisan issue? → What changes does MAHA need to actually support real food reform? → How could reframing SNAP bring more whole foods to families in need? → Are corporations and the government helping or harming our food system? → What can we do to save family farms and strengthen local food economies? Sponsored By: → Timeline | Timeline is offering 10% off your order of Mitopure Go to www.timeline.com/REALFOODOLOGY. → Function Health | Function is a near-360 view to see what’s happening in your body, and my 1000 followers get a $100 credit toward their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com/realfoodology or use code REALFOODOLOGY100 at sign-up to own your health. → Clearstem | Go to www.clearstem.com/realfoodology and use code REALFOODOLOGY at checkout for 15% off your first order.  → BIOptimizers | For 15% off go to www.bioptimizers.com/realfoodology and use promo code REALFOODOLOGY. → Puori | Feel the difference for yourself, go to www.puori.com/REALFOODOLOGY and use the code REALFOODOLOGY at checkout for 20% off. → Everyday Dose | Buy any two Everyday Dose products at a Target store near you, and they’ll pay you back for one! Visit www.everydaydose.com/REALFOODOLOGYBOGO for more details. → Beekeeper’s Naturals | Go to www.beekeepersnaturals.com/REALFOODOLOGY or enter code REALFOODOLOGY to get 20% off your order. Timestamps:  → 00:00:00 - Introduction  → 00:05:26 - Make America Healthy Again    → 00:17:50 - Where MAHA Needs Improvement  → 00:24:36 - Making Health Bipartisan  → 00:38:52 - Reforming SNAP  → 00:53:09 - Saving Family Farms  → 00:57:00 - Creating Community  → 01:00:21 - Soda, SNAP + Corporate Collusion  → 01:04:05 - Farm Supply Struggles → 01:06:24 - Advice for the Secretary of Agriculture Show Links: → Kiss the Ground (Documentary) → Common Ground (Documentary)  Check Out: → Ryland Engelhart  → Mollie Engelhart  → Sovereignty Ranch  Check Out Courtney:  →  LEAVE US A VOICE MESSAGE →  Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! →  @realfoodology →  www.realfoodology.com →  My Immune Supplement by 2x4 →  Air Dr Air Purifier →  AquaTru Water Filter →  EWG Tap Water Database Produced By: Drake Peterson

We're doing a live podcast today. If you don't know who I am, my name is Courtney Swan. I have my Master's of Science in Nutrition and Integrative Health. I started to get really passionate about food and nutrition about 20 years ago. And then I decided to go back to school about 14 years ago. And real foodology is really just, it was born out of a desire to get the truth out. When I was in school, I was learning a lot of things about the food industry that I felt like a lot of people didn't know. and I really felt like I needed to get this information out and sound the alarms because it's quite

literally life-saving. What we're eating is everything. It determines our health in general. So I started Real Foodology just as a food blog. And then when Instagram became really big, I started going to Instagram and I was educating on Instagram. And then I started a podcast in 2020, which I believe is the year that I met both of y'all. It was 2020, I think. She came to volunteer at the farm is how I met her, but she already knew Ryland. Well, I asked her, Ryland and come on the podcast because I saw Kiss the Ground, and I was enthralled with that documentary. Regenerative farming has become one of the most important things to me in my messaging because I believe that, well, not even I believe, it's where our health really truly begins is how our food

is grown. And so when I saw Kiss the Ground, I was like, I have to get Ryland on the podcast. So I had you on the podcast, and you were like, where do you live? And I was like, I'm in L.A. And then he told me to come out and meet Molly. He was like, oh, you've got to go meet my sister, Molly. you need to go out to the farm and then I went out and I volunteered to the farm and then we just became fast friends because we're all very like-minded

and I remember that well Molly said why did you have him on the podcast I'm the more interesting sibling and I was like there she goes again so that's why we brought both of us up here today

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support Maha publicly, which was a little hard just for obvious reasons. And I know that we have our opinions on how Maha is going, and I think there's a lot of really amazing things happening right now, but I want to hear from both of your perspectives what Maha is maybe missing the mark on

and what your solution are and what you think that needs to be done to make America healthy again. I'll go first. So, and just to give some context, kiss the ground, not only was a film, it was a nonprofit.

It was starred in California. I ran it for many years. And then when Bobby Kennedy put out his first campaign video, I've told this story. I was sitting on the toilet late at night.

having a good poop, as Dr. Derek was saying, I was having my third poop of the day, because I'm a healthy guy. And I found myself weeping, tear just weeping down my face because I could tell, you know, what I'm good at is spotting authenticity and spotting heart and something that is true. And I had met Bobby Kennedy personally. Someone had put us together for a dinner party some years before that. So I'd known about him. I had been inspired by his leadership through the pandemic and him writing the real Anthony Fauci and just being a champion for free speech and for the corruption.

And so I got a call that next day after I put up that video of me on the toilet crying, saying a psychic once told me that my life or my job in life is to point. at things and build movements behind those things. And I'm pointing at Bobby Kennedy for president. And I got two calls that next day, one from my current, the CEO of my company and one from a brand partnership that was funding our nonprofit saying, you got to take that down. You can't say that. And so I understood at the time the reason why as a nonprofit you're getting money that's, you know,

not tax, so you have to be politically not supportive. So I understood, I stuffed it, and I, you know, took the video down and I went underground for a year in my support for Bobby Kennedy, which then led to me actually being at a panel in Austin at Aubrey Marcus' place called the American Wellness Summit, where it was a fundraiser for Bobby Kennedy, and we all sat in a sweat lodge. And, you know, in that sweat lodge, I had this whisper on my heart, which was that people who, I succeeded, I've succeeded in my life because I had good champions behind me. I had people who believed in me when I didn't believe in myself. And that there we were in this circle around this guy who was up for a big challenge and stepping into a huge sacrifice and who didn't really need to do what he was doing. And he was choosing to do so. and I just raised my hand and say, I said, I'm going to champion this man's success, and I invited everybody to step into that.

And that following day, I resigned from the nonprofit that I've been running and raising money for, and, you know, I'd been my whole identity. I said, all right, I'm going to step down from the board, and I'm going to resign as an employee, and I'm going to let go of that because I feel like this is actually, in this moment, there's a bigger opportunity for service and transformation than my own. little or, you know, not necessarily that little, but my thing kissed the ground. And so I did that and, you know, there was a whole rocky road about that process of leaving. But I definitely went all in on Maha and got behind Bobby Kennedy, which then was getting behind Donald Trump, which for me

as a lifelong liberal Democrat living in California and been somebody who had run a nonprofit through the years of COVID and diversity, equity, inclusion. And I had been sort of slandered as a straight white man running an organization. And I need to, you know, need to be this whole, and it was just kind of, I had been totally mobbed by that narrative. And, you know, it was just, it was for me, a slow willingness to continue to tell the truth, and the more I was able to tell the truth,

the more free and the more I felt better about my life. And so that's a long context to the question, which was... What are you disappointed in? No, no, I know that. But really, I knew that government is... We can't, we're not going to count on things to change from the government. So, hence, my life has been, how do I be a, be the change and role model and, you know, collaborate with Molly and do this here and be very tactical in the world of regenerative

agriculture and walking the talk and being grateful for the hand that I've been dealt. And if I can influence a larger ripple, then awesome. And again, I had the blessing of knowing Bobby Kennedy for the last seven years and being able to be an advisor and plug the whole regenerative world into his ecosystem and supporting him in that way. But I knew supporting him and getting into politics would be a continuum of disappointments just because politics is going to be a continuum of disappointments. And on some level, it's like forgiveness is like, forgiveness is like, preloading forgiveness, preloading disappointment, and then being grateful for that the cat is already out of the bag. Like, okay, we're going to be disappointed. There's going to be lots of things. Like, it should have gone better, different. But the reality is, there's things that are happening

and conversations that are happening around this country and around the world that already are a chasm of forward momentum for what. the alternative was coming at the governmental level. So that's where I'll stop because I've been taking a lot of the air out of the room. I would say I have less faith in government than my brother. So my expectations were even less. So in many ways, things have exceeded my expectations of things shifting the conversations that are coming out about vaccines and all of that. But the two main things that are disappointments is that I don't. don't see that the Republican Party as a whole understands that Maha is not, like, it's not like all

these yoga moms, crunchy granola, non-vax yoga moms are like diehard Republicans. That coalition has Republicans in power, and it seems that it's kind of being pushed off to the side and not being fully understood in the whole Republican Party would be one thing. And then the other thing is Doge, I think, did a lot of good, but coming in and like ripping out grants, Daxes in the room, lost a bunch of money that was he invested all this money to build this mill to get nutrient dense fresh grain milled to food to kids like win win win win all around and do just like took it away and now he's like wait what do you mean and so i think that there was a lot of good that was in bad bills from the previous people that was very in a line with maha that got pulled and so those

would be my two things i think that we just pulled the rug out of a lot of programs that were maybe helping inside of bigger gross bills that were just earmarked grossness but I think that we should have been more tactile and how we I mean tactical and how we took hold those and then yeah I think that Maha does have to understand I mean the Republican Party has to understand as a whole I don't think that the Maha moms are like full on Republicans yet and so we want to take care of them if we want it to continue this way If you follow me on Instagram, you know how particular I am about skin care. In fact, I've only used the same products for about the last six years on my skin.

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Joel Saladin said, thanks to Heritage Foundation, because he's been mostly disappointed with how the conservatives, have not cared for God's green earth. And so thank you for bringing this conversation to the table here at that place. And then I think the way that that's being reflected in conflict right now is, there's a lot of conservative states that are all about maha getting the sugary snacks and the soda out of the food, you know, the supplemental nutrition programs, which are great. but those same states are totally on board for the pesticide liability shield.

And so, you know, the vaccine issue was the radicalizing and the issue that's brought a lot of cohesion within Maha, MAGA, and everyone's clear about the playbook of what happened with the vaccine liability shield in 1984 or many people are in this movement. And now if we just now input the pesticide liability shield as the example of the crony capitalism that Bobby Kennedy talked about where it's not free market capitalism, it's literally the government making this special arrangement to where big companies who are selling products can't be held accountable for their products, then that's a big, big egg on the face of this moment. So I think that will be a big crumbling, stumbling block if that happens on this administration's watch. And I worry that it will be detrimental to the Maha movement because that to me is a thing that I'm the most concerned about. And the reason I asked you all this question is because I think from all of the Maha supporters, we're hearing a lot of conversations in public about all the wins that we're having.

And I'm one of those people. I'm very excited. I've been waiting for 20 years just for anyone in our government to just acknowledge what we're going through right now. I mean, we've just been ignored, completely ignored until this administration. So for that alone is already a win to me, but I also don't, I think that the people that are hating on this movement just think that we're just going along with everything

and we're happy with everything that's going on. And so I wanted to bring more into the conversation about the things that we also want to change and so that we all can come together and be louder against all the things that we really believe need to be changed. Like, for example, the glyphosate liability or the pesticide liability shield. And the EPA is rolling back other pesticides that we've been made illegal for a long time, and now they're, like, bringing them back.

So, yeah, I don't think that's what anybody thought when they were rallying for Maha. I'm very upset about that, too, especially because Lee Zeldin in the beginning was saying that he's very concerned about Phaas and that he wanted to address them. And now we're reading that they're rolling back regulations on PFAs. I don't understand what's going on with that. And we may never find out. But yeah. Yeah.

And then I think to be fair, I mean, for me, I can just speak, you know, I was the guy who was going to put that up on the wall. So clearly I was all in on the Kool-Aid on Bobby Kennedy. I'm for it. He's just one guy in a big matrix swamp. And so the idea that we can expect agriculture. to be reformed, which is not even something he's overseeing and management on, you know, is over, you know, we have too many expectations. And of course, I want that. That's my area of interest. That's what I've been championed to be changed. But we also, you know, that's, and, you know,

again, I was in D.C. and I was at a soil health roundtable with Bobby Kennedy and, and Secretary Rollins. and it was, you know, some industry people and then a few regenerative farmers and, and Bobby says, as he said, a bunch of times, Brooke Rollins is the best secretary of Vag this country has ever had. And I literally called him that night and said, are you kissing her ass by saying that?

Or are you, like, to tell me, like, really, I'm so, like, what's going on? And he said, no, she actually is curious. And, you know, what he explained to me is similar to the vaccine issue, most people for a long time have thought the absolute bedrock of health for this country and around the world, for public health. We need that vaccine schedule. And that's an impermeable surface of, you know, narrative. And that's every most smart people. And so where she stands is most of the information and most of the smart.

people who are talking to her and vying for her attention and putting money and influence, they believe in the Green Revolution and the Industrial Agricultural Complex as, you know, the superlative truth, that there isn't another option. And, you know, I like to say, you know, Will Harris, Gabe Brown, Alan Williams, you know, these other champion regenerative practitioners, you know, in the scheme of things, they're a thimble compared to the ocean that is this narrative and this strength of what is, you know, the way to feed the world. But, but again, on the other side of it, she was sent Bob Quinn's book. She read the whole thing, texted him out of the blue, invited him to the White House as

Brooke Rollins, had a long, a long two-hour conversation with him, and was very curious, interested, and passionate. So, again, am I a buoyant optimist? absolutely. But what I can do is I can continue to say, how do we put these layups of, you know, appetizers, entrees of regenerative opportunities to have her believe and become a believer in this idea. And, you know, I'm thrilled to know that, you know, A.J. Richards got to go meet with Brooke and have a couple hour meeting and brought a bunch of other ranchers from the West to talk about what were some solutions that they saw and what was what was needed. And it sounded Like, he went skeptical and he left going, I think she maybe is the best sedentary, you know,

not that, you know, so again, she's open. She's open. Yeah, which is, we can't say that for all the ones before her. So something that I'm really struggling with. So, and I know y'all are both in the same camp as me, we all met when we were living in L.A. I was very far left liberal, voted liberal my whole life up until this last 11th. election and what I've been trying to get this message out to so many people because I'm trying to figure out how we can bridge the ground between Americans because I have my message has been

exactly the same for 20 years I created this whole brand around real food real foodology and I came up with that 14 years ago when I was super far left voting as a liberal and have always said you know we need to get back to eating real food my message is still exactly the same today. And how can we help everyone understand that we are all Americans, and it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on, you're still being poisoned by your food system, and how can we all come together and realize that we have a common enemy in the corporations that are poisoning us? It's not our fellow Americans. It's not about being left or being right. And I jumped on this maha bandwagon because of everything that Bobby Kennedy stands for.

I've been following him in his work for 10 years. I know about him with his back of litigating against Monsanto, like I'm very passionate about glyphosate and all the chemical inputs that were spraying. And I was, I knew that I was going to get hit with pushback just because of obvious reasons with what Maha has, with Maha aligning themselves with Trump. But what I've really been having a hard time getting out is how can we, how can we all come together? How can we help our fellow Americans really understand that this is about so much bigger than this stupid infighting. I don't know.

I write about it a lot because I think it's the most important conversation that we're should be having right now. My mom's twin sister worked at a natural food co-op when I was a tiny baby. I've been in the real food space my entire life. And it has largely been dominated by the left. And now it seems like with Maha emerging, the left is screaming like, no, no, no, it's totalitarianism to take red dye 40 out of the cereal. Like,

what? We have an opportunity to be a coalition and a soft landing for farmers to make the transition and we literally have the power to do that because arguably the left has been passionate about healthy food for a long time. And now the right is passionate

about healthy food, but it seems like the left is all the sudden being like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Trump said we should eat healthy. I'm going to go eat McChicken nuggets or whatever. Or I'm going to take Tylenol while I'm pregnant. I'm going to take Tylenol while I'm pregnant.

It's crazy. So I just keep reminding us that if you're getting information, whether it be from your news, from your Instagram feed, from your whatever, and it's trying to divide us, then be critical thinking what you're seeing because we all are being poisoned. There is no, it doesn't care if you're black, if you're white, if you're trans, if you're gay, if you're old or if you're young, we are all being poisoned. And I don't know. It's the most thing I talk about nonstop is how do we remind us that we are all reflections

of God, we are all here, and there's no, like, they don't, there's no discrimination. We're all being poisoned the same. And I think that the underlying problem is that the green movement, environmentalism, made us have a mind virus that thinks we don't belong. We're a plague, a scourge, a problem on the planet. And underneath it all, it's like, well, it's okay if we get poisoned and our children can't have children because we're the problem. And that is what I think is the underlying messaging in the last 20 years of the environmental movement underneath. Nobody said it out loud.

But I think that's what they've taught us. I think they talk about children having anxiety about the environment. We've taught people that we don't belong here. And so I don't know the answer exactly, but I think we need to remind people every opportunity we have the mic that we belong here. We're the keystone species

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is the defender of the beehive. It's a powerful combination of of plant and tree resin and enzymes made by bees. So it's super high in antioxidants like polyphenols and flavonoids, which help fight free radicals and oxidative stress. Studies have found it to have antibacterial properties, anti-inflammatory effects in addition to its ability to fight germs through its antimicrobial and antifungal properties. So I bring the propolis spray with me and this nasal spray every time I travel. I do the propolis spray in the back of my throat and then the nasal spray I used to rinse out my nose. If you remember, I had Dr. Peter McCullough on my podcast a couple months ago, and he was telling me about studies that showed that if you can rinse out

your nose every single day, you can really lower your chances of getting any sort of virus because a virus will linger in your nose for a couple days before it actually starts to go down to your respiratory system. So if you can clean it out with something like the Beekeepers Natural's nasal spray, you can keep a sickness from actually starting to form. And the reason why I love beekeepers naturals is their commitment is to bring you the most potent bee products. No other propolis comes close to this level of identification, consistency, and standardization of bioactives. I know the founder personally, and I know how committed she is to bringing clean, effective

products to market. And I am truly an awe of all the work that she's done with beekeeper naturals. I am obsessed with their products. And today, beekeepers naturals is offering you an exclusive offer. So go to beekeepers naturals.com slash real foodology or intercode Real Foodology to get 20% off your order. That's B-E-E-K-E-P-E-R-S-Natrals.com slash Real Foodology or enter code Real Foodology. You can also find their products at Target, Whole Foods, Amazon, CVS, and Walgreens. What I was going to say is this is one of the

things that I love so much about regenerative farming is that it reminds you that everything was built in this perfect design to all work together in this beautiful ecosystem. We're the stewards of the land, but the animals work so beautifully, and there's this whole ecosystem that nature design or God designed perfectly, and when we work with nature, we get all of these beautiful benefits out of it, like healthy food

and gorgeous, luscious land, and the animals are actually being taken care of and can live out beautiful lives on pastures. Yeah, I'll say it like this. I produced a film called Common Ground, and

our soil the land that we stand on, the land that we eat serves everyone. It doesn't serve the left or the right. And healing our soil, healing our food is something that is an unmess-wittable, universal thing that people can get behind. And so I think, yeah, we continue to, share, declare, be examples of this solution and that this healing is a healing for all of us and for the benefit of all of us. And that it is part of, you know, and again, we hear lots of

people say this, but we all, we mostly agree on 80% of everything. So, and I think, the challenges in the realm of communications and marketing and social media, the conflict is always the thing that is the thing that sells or goes viral and spreads. And so the challenge is even people who are wanting to be positive messengers can get lured into making the divisive or the make-wrong communication because it oftentimes becomes the thing that amplifies the message. And so it's like, I'm going to be a good person when I get famous. I'm just going to do lots of lousy things to get famous.

And then I'm going to be a good person once I get to having a platform. So I think we get to just continue to message messages of love and unity. and togetherness and not get tempted by the opportunity to be divisive, to be othering, even when it does feel like a spiritual battle. It does. I think all of us, everyone listening, we need to all be better about having more open lines of communication with people, especially people that may not totally disagree with us,

and approach the conversations with love instead of, you know, I mean, I do this too, somewhere where we get really defensive or, you know, want to attack. And what I have found is when I lead with love and I go into these conversations with more curiosity and asking questions and trying to understand where they're coming from, we can usually find common ground. And that's what we need to all be doing more of, I think, because we've all been siloed so much into our, you know, social media and not, we're not connecting and talking anymore about these things. Molly, I want to ask you a question. You and I were talking about this yesterday and I was really intrigued to hear because I feel like you have

some really good solutions to this. One of the things that Maha is working on right now that is a little bit controversial and I'm very for is reforming the SNAP program because what's happening right now is they're allowing, I think it's 10% of the income for SNAP is going directly to soda companies like Coca-Cola and Pepsi. And we have an obesity and diabetes crisis in this country. A lot of it is in lower income families that are on welfare and SNAP. And so I'm very much in support of putting more money towards real food and the SNAP program. And you were telling me some solutions that you had around what your thoughts around that. Yeah. So I wrote a plan for the staff. Basically what I think is that if we made there be a base number of ingredients that anything

could have that you could buy on SNAP. So let's say it's eight to 10 ingredients, five ingredients. I don't want to go like five, but that's really aggressive. But then all the companies would reformulate their bread, their food, their everything, and take out a lot of the ingredients because they would be able not be able to get that revenue. It's a huge amount of revenue. But then also what happened is in these places that we consider to be food deserts, they would bring in more whole foods because you couldn't buy a Twinkies, you couldn't buy the chips, you couldn't buy the this, because it needed to have less ingredients. And people say, well, you shouldn't be controlling what people eat and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not wanting to control what anybody's eating. It's a

grant. If I want to get a hoop house grant from the NRCS, I have to follow certain things. And then for me to get that hoop house, there has to be a hoop house at the end. Snap is a nutrition grant from the government, printed money that our children's children are still going to be paying the interest on. And so the outcome should be nutrition. And so what I think is it really needs to go down to very few ingredients in processed foods, and then double payout. So if you just get eggs, milk, meat, and vegetables, whole grains in their whole form, you get like one and a half times or two times for that. And at the farmer's market, you get double. And there's already 15 states doing double at the farmer's market. So you can go with your SNAP credit card.

You go to the farmer's market. You swipe your card, and you get $100 on. off your card and they give you $200 of market cash, which is like monopoly money. And then the farmers bring that in and they cash it out for cash at the end of the market from the market for, you know, whoever's taking care of that at the market. So I like that. I don't like government subsidies as a whole, but we have to understand that SNAP is the largest subsidy in the farm bill. And so if we're going to have that exist, then we should find ways that that money finds its way back to farmers because it's in the farm bill. It should not just support the deficiency of calories in low-income areas, but it should also support the success of farmers in all

areas. And so that would be my design. And then that would also take small towns like this is a food desert where we live here, or if you're in the inner cities, all those small stores would bring in more single ingredient things because then they would get the customers buying it. But if a customer can't buy the junk, they wouldn't have the junk on themselves or not as much. And so that would be my solution. It's controversial because you're saying you're controlling people. You're not. I can't buy a horse with NRCS's money for a greenhouse because greenhouse is the outcome

that NRCS wants. I can't buy a cow with it. I can't buy anything else. So I think if the outcome is nutrition, then the guardrails for the grant should include only foods that cause nutrition. Well, and let's not forget nobody's saying that they can't buy junk food. We're just saying if you want to buy it, buy it with your own money.

If you're getting money from the government, like you said, it's literally in the name, nutrition, nutritional supplemental program. So why are we not feeding them nutritious foods? The whole point was to get them healthier. And that was where the whole program started with the farm bill was that some huge percent of our country

was post-World War II was unfit for battle unfit for being a soldier because there was famine and there wasn't enough nutrition and that's where that supplemental nutrition came from and again we did a good job at providing a lot of calories but now those calories have led to us being fat-saken nearly dead but now it's almost it's more in the other direction now we have just as many or more people that are not fit to go into the military not that someone I'm encouraging people to go to the military but I'm just saying because of obesity, diabetes, and chronic diseases in our young people. So we've swung from famine to obesity, and so we need to swing back in the middle.

I think that, of course, we need there to be a net, and we live in this country. There can be a net, but it can't be a Twinkies and Cookies and Soda Net. It has to be a net that actually is causing the outcome that the grant is designed to do, and I think it also should tie back into farmers because it's part of the Farm Bill. And it seems like that's a viable option because there is a whole, there's a thrust, the next sort of big Maha announcement, I understand, is going to be a redefinition of what is the food pyramid, what is the dietary recommendations, and it seems like that would make sense if there's dietary recommendations for nutrition and health, then what the government

people's taxes is paying to supplement nutrition. would only be supplementing nutrition that actually is something that's going to deliver nutrition outcomes of health. Well, exactly, because right now the way that the nutrition guidelines work is they were majority written by big food, by food industry. And so they were serving the purpose of selling more ultra-processed food. So when we redefine what the dietary guidelines look like and what it actually looks like to eat a healthy diet, that's all going to change.

And then also, too, I was going to point out that, you know, a lot of what is supplementing snap right now are big food. corporations that lobby to get their ability for people to buy their foods on SNAP. And so if we could flip that, we could also help another thing that I wanted to ask both of you all about is what's happening right now with the loss of all these family farms across the country. And what a great way that we could also solve that solution by putting money back into the farmer's hands that are actually growing our food.

Yeah, I've been quoting 140,000 farms in the last 10 years. and Merrill West, is that her name? What's the Farm Freedom Alliance lady? She corrected me at the Heritage Foundation Roundtable. She's like, I just want to correct Mrs. Englehart that it's 170,000 farms in eight years. And then she qualified that by saying it's one in 15 farms is lost in the last eight years, which is a full-on agrarian collapse that's happening. And so if we want small, medium-sized farms, family farms to exist, something has to shift.

I'm not saying like the government has to shift it. I'm saying we have to shift it. But like you're saying, this can be a support for this. And I know it can work because I have a family friend that I own a part of their land. And they are doing $12,000 a week to low-income people. They have to have nine different vegetables. and they're doing hundreds of boxes, but it's like free for them to, not free,

but they're free to choose what the vegetables and fruit are. And it totally changed the game for them. And they were going to lose their land because the loan is in my name and it's a five-year arm and the arm is coming up in April. But because of this program, they were able to save up $650,000, and they're going to be able to put that down.

And even with their lower income that they have coming in, that will be able to get a loan for that. And so they're not going to lose their farm. And so these programs can help if deployed in such a way that actually support farmers. But during COVID, there was a lot of these programs deployed and big warehouses that are just like a consolidator were getting these big grants to do all these food boxes for people. And then small farms were not getting them at all. And so, and I just want to say one more thing about Snap, I went through two and a half. years to go through the process in California to be able to take food stamps in my farm store

for my CSA boxes. And while everybody screamed about food deserts and all the stuff and mothers with no cars, I'm delivering certified regenerative organic food to every neighborhood of Los Angeles. I have vans. I have refrigerator vans. When I finally got approved, after so much headache, the first week we go to launch it, I say, okay, well, how do they pay with their card on the website? Oh, no, they have to come to the farm. what do you mean they have to come to the farm that the food the person in the food desert that you're concerned that they don't have any access to food

needs to drive 55 minutes outside of Los Angeles to pick up their food and they were like yeah they have to come to the store and they gave me some kind of credit card processing machine from the 100 years ago and was like that's what you get and I was like I don't understand you can buy

jack in the box with your snap online How come, and they said you have to have a volume, for them to have it be worth that you have to have a volume of more than $5 million a year. So they won't even let, even if you go through all the hoops, two and a half years to be able to take, to get access to that and give those families access to nutrition food, they have to come to you. The system is just like not designed to support the farmers or to support health. Is that a California thing or is that a federal thing? I have no idea. I've never, I didn't come to Texas and try to take SNAP for sure.

was over it. Yeah. Yeah, the thing I'm thinking about is there is, because the Republicans are all about the, in the farm bill, 80% of the farm bill goes to SNAP, 20% goes to farm subsidies. And it's always this barter between the Democrats and the Republicans. We'll, you know, we'll let you hold your SNAP dollars and you let us hold our subsidies. And that's why, that's what I've heard, that's why it kind of always goes through. But, and, you know, there's obviously, from the conservative Republican side,

they're always, you know, wanting to scale down the, you know, SNAP dollars. But, you know, this idea that Molly brings up of, I think there's 44 million people who are consuming food, getting calories, nutrients from the SNAP program, I mean, if that was, that went down to a five ingredient minimum of, or, you know, 10 ingredient, that would drive a huge, huge demand for a different supply chain, a different food system. And that would obviously drive farmers. And, you know, it would, I mean, again, it's hard to predict how ripples affect. Obviously, really great ideas, oftentimes have a complete shit show of experience.

in the ripple effect, but from, you know, what I'm seeing in this moment, I mean, that could be a very, very powerful framework for how SNAP dollars could drive a different purchase and a different supply chain if there was these sort of small, more, less processed food, you know, in that purchasing power. Yeah. But it wouldn't just drive health in people that are on SNAP because it's going to change how food companies are going to formulate in foods because they want to be having access to that money. So it's going to formulate everything differently. So it creates health across everybody. But I just want to say just from what's happening in Texas with the no soda, no sugar candy thing, I have a girlfriend that's a buyer for HEB. She says they're already rearranging the stores even though it hasn't come yet. putting soda deeper into the aisles. They're doing no end caps of soda. They're only putting stuff that is able to be bought with the snap on the N cap. So no candy, no cookies, and no soda end caps. So even they are like, oh, well, we don't want to put that on an N cap if 20% of our

customers can't buy it. And so that being said, I think it would shift everything. The cascade effect of that would be health in many different areas. Yeah. Well, and this is a great example. So I kind of live in the middle of, you know, I spent the last 20 years building real foodology, really trying to build a movement with the people. Because the way that I saw it, because, you know, when I started Real Foodology, I was watching, I remember voting for Obama thinking that he was going to do something about GMOs. And we had to fight tooth and nail just to get the smallest little label on there. And so I started seeing, okay, so we're not going to really change anything in the government.

So we, the people, need to start demanding better of our food system. And Will Harris was talking about this yesterday. actually that it really does have to come from the ground up. And I kind of live in the middle now because after I've seen what is possible when we get somebody like Bobby in there, now granted, we'll talk to me in four years and let's see what actually really happened. But I think this is a great example of how if we can get the right people in there that are writing the right policies that are actually protecting our farms and helping us with bettering our health, I think it's really cool. But my question, when it comes to what's happening right now, we're hearing all these

horrible stats about these family farms. I am incredibly concerned about this. What can everyone in this room and everyone listening do as an individual to help turn this around? You have to buy from family farms. Everybody, I've heard people say it to AJ. I've heard people say it to me a hundred times. Like, besides buying from farmers, what can we do to support? Like, literally just buy from farmers like go to from the farm go to white oak pastures go to sovereignty ranch go to oatman's flats buy from the farmers that are doing the practices that you believe in how much of your money can you be getting from the small farm diet the medium size farm diet the regenerative farm diet like forget about like what brian was uh was saying forget about keto and vegan and this and

that like if we can go with the highest quality food from the closest location or the highest quality production, like, that's what you want to go with. And so I don't care about if anybody's, like, keto or whatever your diet is, get whole foods from places that you trust. But that involves giving up a little bit of your convenience. And we're so addicted to our comfort. Like, we're just so into it. And so, you know how many people said this weekend to me?

Like, this is so much work. Why would you do it? most things that are worth doing are a lot of work yeah and so saving our small farms saving rural America I mean look at will as an example look at him changing the way he did his practices look at what's happened now he's bought a bunch of the houses and other people have bought houses the houses are getting fixed up fixed up the whole neighborhood the whole place is getting fixed up because not just regenerating the soil, but regenerating the community.

And so we have to support, if we want cool stuff to exist where we live, we have to support it. And it has a ripple effect when true, true capitalism is like nature. If something is good for the community and it gets supported, it grows up. And if it's bad for the community, the community doesn't support it and it collapses. But we don't have true capitalism. We have Amazon Prime with free shipping and everybody just, goes with free shipping because it's free shipping. And everybody hates Amazon, but they love

free shipping more than they hate Amazon. And so we have to be our word. Like, be who you say that you are. I told Dusty, I think she's already gone. She's not in here. But I said, like, thank you for putting your money where your mouth is. She invested a little bit of money in this ranch. She orders every Tuesday. She's dedicated and she posts on Instagram about it. And then she comes and she tells other people about it, like, that's just one thing. But if everybody does that, everybody supports each individual farmer where they are, that is all that we can do. Like, sure, call your senator, call your whatever when some, the pesticide liability show do that.

But the everyday action is small farm diet, medium farm diet, regenerative farm diet. That's what you want to be spending your money on. What percentage of my food can I get from somebody that I know? And don't discount the importance of talking to everyone you know about this, you know, if your kids are in school, talk to all the parents at the school, have friends over and cook them an amazing meal and talk about the farm that you got it from. Like it all, we all play a role in this and we can make a difference in our own little communities and it may not feel like much, but, you know, if you can get five friends together that

are all ordering from Molly's farm, it will make a huge difference, you know? And so I just want to encourage people to not forget to also, you can have a ripple effect in your community. Before, I mean, I have a ton more questions. I'm going to have to bring you guys back on. But does anyone have any questions that you'd want Molly or Rylan to answer? You too have done such a good job of making yourself known and people love to support who they know.

And so as farmers and filmmakers, you've done an amazing job of creating community that allow people to even know who you are. And then AJ's business, I was like, oh, for the farmers, who don't have the time to go out and make the reels and become more known, that's, that's a solution. So I'm curious if there are any other ways that you have learned just in the way that you've lived your life to allow yourself to be more seen and more known in otherwise jobs that could have you be here all the time and not be as known and, I guess, cross-pollinate

across other kinds of, uh, we're a good groups of people. We're a good combination. I don't like going out. I don't really like being social. So he goes out into the world and pollinates the conversations and I stay here and hold it down. And so we have, we're blessed that we both have different skill sets and different personalities. And he loves connecting. Like, I'm not super great at like connecting when I first meet people. Sometimes I carry him across as cold. He calls it cold fish face. He's like, I'm bringing this person. They're important. don't give them cold fish face so that I'm not as people don't always connect with me or connect with my heart as easily as they do with Rylan and so we're lucky that he can go out in the world

and be the social butterfly and connect people and that is his skill set and it's extraordinary and he you know look at the people that were in the room this weekend you know everything from people that have access to billions of dollar hedge funds to like someone with a 1.3 acre homestead to the, you know, different farmers and different, all different sizes and then podcasters and then policymakers, you know, that's, he's the one who has all these different strings that he can connect. And so I'm grateful that that's his skill set. And my skill set is building things in real life, like not real life in that way, like brick and mortar, pulling something out of my mind and idea and pulling it out into existence.

instance, even if I have to use like duct tape and dental floss to make it happen, I will push it to the end. And so that's my skill set. And so the combination of us is actually necessary. And we both bring something that's totally unique to the table. And that's the blessing of the partnership that we have. Yeah, I agree. And just, yeah, I would say that I had a mantra, my answer is yes, and my message is love. And just, Being really, everywhere I go, I try to make a difference, contribute, leave a positive ripple effect, which then allows me, welcomes me back any time I want to go back where I've been. But it also allows me to ask for favors and support when I need it.

Because, you know, when I'm present, I'm somewhere, I'm always trying to make it better than I found it. so that I can then, you know, in the future at some point, ask for support knowing that I will need it at some point. We know that we probably don't trust the government to fix everything, right, which is why it kind of starts with us. So you alluded to the SNAP program kind of being a big motivator for some of those large companies to change our practices. Is that a large enough motivator to get, you know, your multi-billion dollar corporations on board, or are there other things? It's a huge motivator. So, Callie Meems has talked about this a lot,

but the soda companies actually paid the NWACP to say that taking soda out of SNAP was racist. And they got NWACP to lobby for soda in SNAP as racial equity, which is crazy. So the level of lobbying that's going to keep people's products in the program is huge. So if they got cut out of the program, immediately they would be formulating stuff that could go in those supply change and continue to grab that money. It's a huge amount of money. 80% of the farm bill goes to that.

So you would think 80% of the farm bill would go to farmers and 20% to food stamps. It's the other way around. And so it's a massive amount of money, and the food companies would have to shift. And then they would shift all their cereal or the majority of their cereal to have these ones that would be compliant. And so for me, I hate regulations, but in this case, it's not a regulation. It's a grant from the government. So therefore, the outcome of the grant should match what the grant is saying it's doing, just like we as farmers have to, we're going to do a riparian zone, we can't buy calves.

If we're going to, you know, there's, there is grants and we should have the outcome match that. Yeah, I was just looking up because I have some stats from a post that I did a while back. And soda is the number one commodity purchase with food stamps. More money is spent on soda, candy, snacks, ice cream, and desserts than on fruits, vegetables, eggs, beans, and rice combined. So it's a massive market for big food companies. and, like she was saying, they lobby in order to have that food share. Well, that's encouraging.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, we're working on it. Yeah, and this may sound ironic and maybe foolish, but McDonald's, I said this earlier, McDonald's just put a fund of $200 million towards regenerative ranching. And there's lots of reasons. reasons why they could do that, lots of greenwashing, but as far as a cultural arc of where the system, we know that the system, the Titanic takes a lot to move, that is encouraging, that just that

aspirational direction of what is considered the crummiest version of food in America is aiming towards this higher ideal of food production. And obviously there's a lot to work out such that that's legitimate and impactful. But again, in the realm of a life of trying to take little steps, that to me shows that a thousand little chips have led to a directional shift that is it is moving the moving the masses I just want to say like when you're out there and you're talking to people I don't think that people

understand like in the general public that we have the the cow stocking rate in the United States is as low as it was in 41 right now so we have the lowest amount of cows that we've had in a very very long time the screw worm is just minutes away down the road basically and we are

a full net import of food. We are in, we don't grow enough food for ourselves. And we are in a very, very precarious position. And you guys may go to the grocery store and feel very safe. But I'm going to let you know that right now there is millions of farms freaking out because not one single order of soybeans has been put in from China, not one order from, and they buy 60% of all the soybeans in the world. So even if we get all of the rest of the market and we're not because the other Bricks nations are also not buying from us, where are we going to sell all these soybeans? We've already put it in every single product that we can put it into and where. And then what happens to these

farmers that have leveraged whatever, they pay their mortgage once a year when they get their soybean crop and we don't have a market for it. Like we're in a very precarious position. We don't have enough cows. We're importing everything. We're exporting corn and soy all around the world we're going to be in a situation where we're just eating corn and soy that we can't sell anywhere else and if some like and i'm not trying to be like fearful like there's a legitimate agrarian collapse happening and it seems to me that the average person seems not concerned out about our cattle stocking rates about farms ability to profit any of it it seems like herb is like i mean people have even posted like what are you so worried about everything you need is at the

grocery store wow and so we are very very disconnected as a culture and we're in a very precarious position right now and farmers are very many farmers are on the edge of losing their farms and ranches and i just think that we need we're not in a fear way fear is not going to help us but in a i am responsible i am a cell in the body of the hole and how can i support that hole if you have if you could speak directly to Secretary Rollins, what are like just a few general guidelines that you would ask or you would recommend to how we get to a more sustainable place with our food supply? I don't really believe on putting more big subsidy boxes on top of more big subsidy boxes,

on top of more big subsidy boxes. But if I was to move around subsidies that were already there, I think we need to let people that are transitioning and doing other things still have crop insurance. I think the crop insurance whole thing probably needs to be redone. It has people stuck. I'll give you an example. I have a farmer next door to me in California. I didn't see her harvest avocados for the last, I don't know how many years.

And there's a certain amount of years she can claim insurance and not. And she only claims harvest avocados the year that she has to before she can't claim insurance again. So literally, it's a scam, like she's buying this insurance. AJ was telling me about another thing where you buy like drought insurance. You have one cow with a brand. And then there's all these ways that this drought, that this insurance is being used. So I think there is money that could be moved around. But one of the main things I would say is that we need more grazing ground.

We need more young people to have access to places to graze cows. So one of my, we definitely shouldn't take away BLM land. But in states like Texas where there is no. BLM land. I think opening up rich people's land, giving them a subsidy that's greater than just a wildlife exemption. So it's valuable enough for them to let someone graze their land. There's tons of private land that we could be grazing cows on in the state of Texas that's all under wildlife exemption. And to get a wildlife exemption, you just need to put GMO corn in a corn feeder and put water out. And now you're exempt. And you get the same exact tax benefits. And you get the same

exact tax benefit as if you're grazing cow. The tax benefit that I get for moving my cows every single day and whatever, whata, whata, is exactly the same as the person putting GMO corn from the gas station in a spinner thing and throwing it out every once a day and filling a trough for the deer. Same, same. And so I think that there should be a greater benefit to having edible cows or other bovine that are edible on your land would be one thing that I think. that she should look at and there's so much in the system that's broken that I I'm not smart enough to do her job. The truth is like I'm not smart enough to do her job and I don't think that I should. But I do think a financial product similar to what we do for veterans like where

it's like zero down or a low percent down and one, two percent interest, low interest. If we had a getting into land program, a financial product, similar to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and first-time buyers, we do it for military, we do it for first-time buyers. But when you want to buy land, you need to put 30 percent down. So people can't get onto land. Farmers are aging out. And so how, and then the kids that don't want to farm, the land is expensive, they're selling it. So how do we get people to get on to land? We can't get people to come up with a million dollars, $2 million dollars to put $3,000.

30% down. And so we need a lower interest rate. Like if you're doing this going to stock more cattle, you're going to feed your community, blah, blah, blah, have a special financial program that would be like a similar to Frannie Mae or Freddie Mac or what we do for military. Those would be my two things that and keep making sure that the BLM land, we can bring up the stocking rates if we're doing regenerative practices. Right now, the stocking rates are based on old kind of style of grazing. but if you're moving your cattle every day or moving your cattle very regularly, you should be able to bring up a higher stock density

so that you can have a better herd impact and we can bring up our overall cattle numbers. That would be what I would start with. Yeah. The two things that come up in addition to what she just shared, I'm always asking advisors of mine, you know, what are the levers of change and Gabe Brown's sort of modified,

His version of regenerative transition through the regenerated certification program, not necessarily that certification, but the framework of transition of, there's conservation dollars for farmers to implement soil health practices, but it's just paying farmers to potentially do no-till or putting cover crops, but there's no outcomes. So there's a lot of people that do something, they apply, they get some money, and they don't necessarily have the educational context, and they maybe put a little bit of cover crop on the field, they don't, they put the rest in their pocket, and then there's not the ecological benefit, they don't actually see the benefit, and in turn, it's wasted money inside of, whereas, you know, his estimation is that 15% of growers who are going to conservation programs, many of them, fall out of those programs because they're not seeing the benefits, whereas farmers who are utilizing his services, you know, 85, 90 percent who come into their program are succeeding in the implementation. So improving the technical training at the NRCS. Right now, the technical training at the NRCS has been influenced by the, you know, chemical agriculture apparatus. So their influence, their education, their conviction, their support for growers seems to not necessarily have people succeeding and continuing to get better. So improving that technical

training and then the stimulation and the funding for conservation programs or regenerative agricultural programs, having there be an attachment to you get more money if you're showing that there's an outcome that is being delivered on for, you know, for the, for the, for those dollars that have been given to apply those practices. I think we're out of time anyway, so we'll have to wrap up here. But thank you guys both so much. And I just both want to say to both of you, thank you so much for all the work that you're doing.

Thank you for bringing this community of people together. Thank you for being loud. Thank you for telling the truth, both of you. It's more needed than ever. And when you get up here and you tell the truth, you also give everybody else permission to do the same. And it has a ripple effect on our society. And I just want to say that you're doing amazing work and you're inspiring so many people. Thank you. Thank you all for coming.

Thank you so much for listening to The Real Foodology podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. The theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more, Shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual, medical, and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. If you struggle with bloating gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about Digest This. It's the podcast hosted by me, Bethany Cameron, also known as Little Sipper

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