Realfoodology - From Hospitalist to Functional MD with Dr. Jess Peatross

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

83: Dr. Jessica Peatross, MD, is a Hospitalist turned Functional MD. Fed up with what she was seeing in hospitals, she decided to go the Functional Medicine route and now treats patients from a root cause lense. We talk about some of the common underlying issues (that people may not be aware of) that she sees in a lot of her patients, her #killbindsweat method of treatment, what prompted her to shift from an allopathic model of medicine into a functional approach and so much more! Check Out Dr. Jess: https://go.drjessmd.com/drainage-pathways https://www.instagram.com/dr.jess.md/ https://drjessmd.com/ Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Further Listening: How to Achieve a Magic Mind with James Beshara Why We Should Care About Inflammation in 2021 with Dr. Tyna

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. your blood pressure is going up. Why is this happening? And if you continue to ask those why questions, you'll, you'll, you'll never miss the answer that you're looking for. You continue to advocate for yourself that way. Hello, welcome back to another episode of the real foodology podcast. If you are new here, my name is Courtney Swan. I am the creator behind Real Foodology, which started out as a simple recipe and food blog back in 2011 when I was getting my master's in human health. And it has since grown into my Instagram page and of course now this podcast. I don't believe in diets. I believe in just getting back to eating real food. I think that is truly the secret and the answer. We need to stop eating out of boxes and we need to start prioritizing eating whole real

foods in their natural state. And of course, there's a lot of other things that we need to address in our modern lifestyles. Toxins that we're exposed to in our food and our drinking water and pollution in the air. Of course, emotional as well, which is actually something that Jess and I get into a little bit today, which I am. I'm so excited about this episode in this conversation. Today's guest is Dr. Jessica Petras. You may know her on Instagram as Dr. Jess MD. She's an MD, also hospitalist turned functional medicine doctor. This is what I love so much about her story is that she has the full perspective and full scope of being a medical doctor. She started out in the allopathic conventional route.

She was working in a hospital and looked around and was like, this is not the way that we help people heal. And so she got out of it and it led her into functional medicine. I also just adore this woman. I've been following her for about two years now. And you can just tell by the way she speaks about these things that her heart is really invested and really in it. She really, really cares. And she just really wants to help people. And it shows. And it's really amazing to watch. We talk about her background and what prompted her to shift from an allopathic model of medicine into a functional approach. We also talk a little bit

about big pharma and the tentacles that it has and everything from medical school's curriculum to hospitals and doctors. We talk about allopathic medicine and the difference between that and functional medicine. We talk about terrain theory. And if you don't know what terrain theory is, you're definitely going to want to know, especially when it comes to these last two years. Uh, we also just talk about what are some common underlying issues that people may not even be aware of that she sees that are pretty common. And especially if people are dealing with symptoms that they really can't get to the bottom of, this is a great starting point. And then of course, we go over her kill bind sweat method. And we talk about drainage pathways, things that you

can do at home to support those drainage pathways and so much more. I really hope you guys enjoy this episode. This is really exciting. Organifi now has kid stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called Easy Greens and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other one is called Protect. It's a delicious wild berry punch like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume

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to strengthen their body's first line of defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic, and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a delicious berry taste, and it's low sugar,

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a functional approach? Well, my background is I was trained in conventional medicine and went to regular medical school, internal medicine residency, worked as a hospitalist for almost seven years before I started to kind of see cracks in the system. And really, for me, I can't really stay quiet when I see that things are wrong. I speak up and try and tell other people and turn the tides a little bit. But I quickly got shut down. I started complaining, you know, about the different Coca-Cola contracts in the hospital, the different foods we were feeding cancer patients.

The, you know, proton pump inhibitors people were on for six years when they weren't supposed to be. And they basically, you know, kind of labeled me a disruptive physician and asked me not to do that anymore, or I couldn't work at the hospital in the hospital system anymore. So that's really what prompted me to jump ship. Um, and then I probably wouldn't have done it had I known how difficult it was going to be. Um, because I went and shadowed a naturopath a couple times a week. I worked at Whitaker Wellness and I was barely making ends meet, but really enjoying what I was doing, enjoying getting to the root cause and digging deeper than I had with patients previously. And it was a slow transition to learn how to be successful, how to really help people while

doing so for me. It wasn't this easy one size fits all. You jump from the conventional medical system and there's this ready-made system for you and holistic world. There's not, there's not one of those things. You have to kind of make your own way, find your own niche, if you will, and really find out what kind of you're interested in, what you love, and what gets to the root cause for your people. And so it was a slow burn for me to figure out where that I belonged in this world or where my voice needed to be heard more. Yeah, that's amazing. What I love so much about your story is that you started in the traditional allopathic world. So you really have the full scope perspective. And I want to commend you for that, for not silencing your voice and for speaking out knowing and seeing what you're seeing and trying to work in that world. Like and it's what I'm really having a hard time grappling with right now is so we know like, for example, like big pharma has its tentacles and almost everything like medical schools, curriculum.

They're in hospitals like across the board. And what I don't understand is why are so many doctors having a hard time understanding this? Like, it's almost like they can't believe that the education that they were getting is not entirely truthful. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I mean, I think that people would have to admit that, you know, most doctors never pay off their school loans. They just, they don't. It's more than a house payment for most people. And so it's, it's really, um, it's really difficult, like a really difficult pill to swallow to admit that possibly you got

half truce with all this money that you paid into your education. Yeah. Well, and it's, I think it's hard for people to understand too, like that allopathic medicine is great for emergency medicine, but it's not great for chronic illness, but it's almost like we need to have this paradigm shift and not everyone has caught up yet because we've been so obsessed with, you know, all of the emerging medicine and everything that we've seen in the last couple hundred years, which is amazing, but it's almost like you can't even have the conversation about things that we're seeing that are wrong without everyone just immediately jumping down your throat, being like, well, we need medicine. And it's, you know, it's modern, it's saved live. And it's like, well,

but how can, why can't we have both conversations at the same time and recognize, yes, if you're in a car accident or you break your leg, like, of course, emergency medicine is lifesaving, but it's not helping those that are dealing with chronic pain and chronic illness. Correct. It's exactly the truth. And I think, you know, people like to define them as apples versus oranges, and they are in some respects, but in other respects, they are very integrative and they can be integrated

if we will let them be integrated. And, and that's where, um, I think I'm hoping that we see that we see that integration in our lifetime. That would be amazing. Yeah, I hope so too. The thing that worries me is that the tentacles are so deep in the curriculum and the hospitals and the doctors and everything that, um, that it's going to engulf us and there we're just going to continue being silenced, but I have hope I'm a very positive person. And I always believe that the truth is going to prevail, but it's tough, especially watching everything go down the last couple of years, you know, it's been really hard to watch. Oh, well it has to get so bad before everyone sees it. Right.

Yeah. Well, I will say this. So obviously, the last two years have been super hard on people. There's no denying that. But I also believe that a lot of people recognize there's been some really amazing silver linings that have been coming out of all of this. And I believe that one of them is that people are really starting to see our health care system unravel. Like, it was already unraveling, but I think people are

finally starting to really wake up to the corruption. What, from your perspective, having come from that world, what have you kind of seen in all of that unraveling? You know, I've seen, I've seen, well, I would have hoped that a lot more of my colleagues would have stood up and said something by now. But they haven't. And I know that behind closed doors, a lot of them do say things to me, even on like Facebook Messenger, for example. They'll say, I am so ashamed of, you know, the system that taught us. I'm so ashamed of medicine right now. Why are they hiding this? You know, they starting to see cracks in the system at this point in time. And they're sort

of where I was before where I didn't know how to leave the hospital system. And I was miserable every single day. And it's not really good for healers to be miserable. It's not really a great place to do the healing. No. Well, if your cup is not full, then you can't fill up other cups, you know, other people's cups. And that's been the problem for a long time, in my opinion. But now the doctors are being a little more forthcoming with their dissatisfaction, I think. And, you know, I'm hoping that they won't keep themselves in perpetual hell too long. I'm hoping that at some point you have to say something, even if your voice trembles in the face of fear. Sometimes you need to say something.

And I know there's a lot of doctors out there, Courtney, there are that are just afraid or they're in debt or they have a family and they don't know how to do this. Yeah. Well, and I get it. You know, I, I speak about this topic a lot on my Instagram and I had someone the other day come, uh, you know, shortly message and she was just like, shame on those doctors. I can't believe that more of them aren't speaking up and this and that. And I said, you know, I have a lot of compassion for them because unfortunately we're at a time right now we're speaking up against this behemoth of a monster, um, could mean your license getting stripped or, you know, you drug through the mud. Like I've, I've watched so many doctors, um, their credentials get stripped from them. And then, you know, there's like hit pieces written

on them in, you know, newspapers and on websites and stuff. So it's, it's a tough time to speak up, which again, is why I'm so grateful I found your account. And I just want to say you're so brave for speaking out about this. And we really need your voice right now. Well, thank you. I mean, yeah, they are getting ready to try and take my license for writing a couple of vaccine exemptions too in California. So that's a, that's a real fear for people. I mean, and I would liken it to people, you know, if you get mad at the doctors, it's kind of like you have to get mad at all those people who are enforcing vaccine passports in the cities they were passed and all those people who continue to help the rate matrix run every single day on a nine to five. So those people are all part of

cogs in the wheel that have to stand up and say something if we don't want to continue down this path. Oh, 100%. I think people forget that there's power in the people. And the second that I've been saying this for so long, the second that all of us as a population and as a society just say, stop, we're done. No more. We're moving on with our lives. People don't realize that if we all just collectively said, nope, we're done. We are moving on and we are living our lives. Leave us alone. We would solve this overnight. Yes, I completely agree with you. That's the honest to God truth. But people, we're not organized and people don't know how to stand up and do it at once and communicate with

other people. We need to organize and we need to all be on the same page. And it's really difficult when the other side is organized and we don't even know there's a battle going on. We shouldn't even be on the battlefield, right? So how do you organize everyone into a cohesive unit that has a similar goal or goals. I don't know yet. And I think part of the problem too, is that a lot of people have been misled to think that we need to be pointing fingers at our neighbors and other people and saying like, oh, they're the problem. This is the problem. And what people don't realize is that if you just took a step back and we stopped bickering amongst ourselves and just had love and compassion for everyone, like we would solve this. But, you know, we've been made to, um, we've been making enemies out of like our friends and family members because they're not choosing to do the same thing that we decided to do. But that's all because we have been programmed to think that way. Correct. Exactly. You're exactly right. Yeah. And so I don't know. I mean, eventually I keep thinking that the hearts of men and women will change. And as longer this goes on,

the more people will get tired of it and really come back to what true happiness and what makes them happy, which hopefully, hopefully is community and, um, you know, helping other people from the bottom of your heart and serving. That's real, real, real, true happiness comes from those places. Yeah. I love that so much. Well, OK, so I figure we would take a little bit of a pivot because I really want to talk about what you really specialize. And I feel like your expertise is really in underlying issues. A lot of like chronic infections and stuff that maybe people aren't really aware of, like microbes, mold, parasites, toxins, stuff like that. I listened to you on a podcast and

I think I heard you right. Did you call it self-infections? Stealth. Stealth. I couldn't understand because it was a Zoom, like it like cut out right there. And I was like, wait, what did she call it? Yes. So I want to talk more about this because I feel like a lot of people don't really fully understand the magnitude of these kinds of things happening and really how much they can affect their health. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, first and foremost, people say, well, I tested for X and Y and I tested negative at my doctor's office.

But the problem is that these tests are really inaccurate. A lot of stealth infections are stealth because they don't live in places that they would be easily found, which is our bloodstream. We take our people's blood all the time. It's something we've done for 50, 60 years. They haven't changed much over time. So a lot of these pathogens and microbes aren't really found in the blood. Their antibodies, some of the other things we're testing

indirectly to look for them are not always in the bloodstream. Some of these pathogens, microbes are in places that other toxicities are like the cerebral spinal fluid, the joint fluid, the fascia or connective tissue, the lymphatic system. So these are places that a lot of the microbes hide. And that's because there's a lot of toxins that go through these systems too, even the bile. And so depending on what toxicity you're talking about, you might be talking about a different pathogen. And people don't understand that concept because they have been told that blood work is the end all be all, and there's no inaccuracies in these tests when that's not true. You know, I also heard you talk about, um, I'd never thought about like this before that there are some tests that encourage

you to like go to a sauna or like sweat it out before you get tested to release those microbes from their hiding or parasite or whatever it is. I'd never heard that before, but that makes so much sense. Yeah. It's called provocation and it's really important for some blood tests and then some urine tests too. Because, you know, you got to shake them out from their hiding places if you want the test to be a little more accurate sometimes. Yeah. I mean, that makes perfect sense. I just never thought about that. Well, let's talk a little bit about mold because I feel like, um, this is one of those ones. I kind of feel like mold and lime are similar that they're, they're more like silent, um, killers for lack of a better word that I don't feel like a lot of people really understand the

gravity and the magnitude of how much they can really affect people. I mean, I have a girlfriend that is living in an apartment right now. Actually, she literally just got it tested and it was okay. But almost for a year, I could literally see stuff in the ceiling. And every time I came over, I was like, please test for this. Like you have no idea mold could literally cause like neurological issues. She finally did. And it turned out to be okay, shockingly, even though the ceiling is literally wet. So I don't know how, but anyways, so I feel like people really don't have a concept of how much mold can really affect their health. It's true. They don't because, you know, if you look up, you know, if you were to to google mold a lot of things that would pop up

would just be like oh this is just an allergy or irritant it can't cause or lead to autoimmunity or health problems or mystery conditions and so people it's not on their radar they've just been misinformed and and doctors do you know um and the same thing about parasites you know people really think you have to be out of the country to have a parasite. And then once you cross over into the U.S. border, the parasites know that you're in a first world country and you can when we aren't aware of things they slip by and really can get us. And so, yeah, you're right. They are a little more stealth. They are a little bit harder to diagnose. They are, um, they cause all this variety of mystery symptoms for people. And so it's really hard for a lot of practitioners and the general lay person to put all this together and understand what that means in a big general concept. Yeah. That's why I have such a magnitude of respect for functional and integrative doctors, because I mean, you kind of, you already basically said this, but it's like,

you know, in the traditional allopathic model, there's kind of just like, there's like a path that's already kind of paved for you. But in your world, it's really very much like, it's like playing detective where you're just like, okay, I got this clue. I got, I don't like, maybe this will take me down this path. Like what's over here. And it's very, I have a lot of respect for that. It's, it's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. And plus you have to sort of be your own businessman or businesswoman too, because they don't have a, you know, a ready-made brick and mortar, you know, root cause integrative hospital for us to work at. Unfortunately, wouldn't that be awesome though?

Yeah, seriously. One day I feel I I'm really hopeful that as more people start to wake up to, uh, this need to finding doctors that are more focused on the root cause, that we will have more access to doctors that are thinking that way. Yeah, it's really sad. They're just people who live places where they don't have access to anything like this. So that's one of my goals, hopefully in our lifetime as well, is to make it accessible and affordable for the general person. Yeah. I mean, it should be.

And it sucks because, you know, I think a lot of the hoops that you guys have to go through as well is that insurance doesn't recognize preventative care. And so a lot of people can't even get this kind of care under their insurance. Not at all. can't even get this kind of care under their insurance, which is insane to me because it would save insurance companies so much money if people were getting healthier on the, you know, beginning end instead of like trying to clean up the mess after. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense at all. I don't understand their model of business. I know it's so, I mean, I feel like this could be an entire podcast about allopathic medicine and all of the issues that we have. Yes. And they also don't believe in mold or a lot, you know, chronic Lyme parasites, which is a big yellow flag to me because as I continued on my journey from conventional to root cause

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take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me and use real foodology to get $100 off your lumen. That is L-U-M-E-N dot M-E and use real foodology at checkout for $100 off. Thank you so much to lumen for sponsoring this episode. You know, that's so sad. Lime is such a tricky one too. I remember, I'll never forget this when I was younger. Um, one of my mom's best friends had lime and she struggled with it for, I think literally like 20 years, which is heartbreaking to me. And also insane when you think about it, cause they knew that she had it, but 20 years ago, I feel like we really didn't – we don't even know that much about it now. And then you think about 20 years ago, it's even tougher.

And she was just on a course of antibiotics for 20 years, and she's finally now gotten to a place where she's better. But it's sad that allopathic medicine doesn't even really acknowledge that it's like an actual issue. It's true. I feel like these people have, you know, they're already dealing with a level of a component of some, sometimes some mental health issues with Lyme disease. And then on top of it, they have people that don't believe them. A lot of times we tell them that things aren't possible. So it's really this very like physical, mental, you know, spiritual struggle for a lot of people in every way. Um, yeah, just even get people to

listen to them. So for, for people listening and maybe they're struggling, you know, maybe they're in that position where they're struggling with maybe unexplained symptoms and stuff going on where, you know, they're, they're allopathic doctors like, Hey, everything looks good. Your blood work looks normal. What would you suggest that they, how, where could they start to start getting kind of answers? Well, you know, first and foremost, know that if you're going to branch out into the root cause medicine world, you're going to hear and see things you've probably never heard or seen before, which is a great thing. And you're going to get a perspective that people haven't probably told you before, which is going to be pretty cool. And it's going to make a lot of sense to you.

The bad news is that a lot of this stuff, like we mentioned, isn't covered with insurance. So it depends on how deep you want to go. You know, we just talked about one of those tests that you can use to provocate things. One of them is DNA Connections, but it's $650 or so for this test. But it's a urine test. You can get a drop kit, drop shipped to your house, not drop kicked, drop shipped to your house. And they ask you to do a lymph massage or, you know, an inference on a session before you go and take the urine test to make it more accurate.

So these are ways you can kind of take the cure health in your own hands, but they're more expensive. That's the downside to things. You know, if you don't feel comfortable with that, even looking for a functional medicine doctor on the Institute of Functional Medicine's website, looking for a registered naturopathic doctor in your area, or even someone who, you know, is acupuncture, traditional Chinese medicine, any of those people might have answers, or at least keep asking why, rather than just give you a pill for the rest of your life, or a bandaid that helps take the pain away, but doesn't really answer the question of why your body is reacting that way. Yeah, that's a great point. I think we have been trained now to just look and ask for a quick fix. You know, like we just go to the doctor, oh, I have this pain here. Oh, let me just give you

this pill instead of us asking and the doctor being like, well, what's the what's going on with the pain here? Yeah, totally. I mean, wouldn't that be nice if, you know, if you came with pain or like you said, or high blood pressure and they, you know, why do you have it? Why though? You know, if that injury was a long time ago, why is it still continuing? Or why is your body responding with constricting blood vessels and things are going, your blood pressure is going up. Why is this happening? And if you continue to ask those why questions, you'll, you'll, you'll never miss the answer that you're looking for. You continue to advocate for yourself that way. This is such a great point. And I'm so glad that

you brought this up because I have really, um, I, I, I try to talk about this as much as possible because I want to empower my listeners to become educated and invested in their own health. Because while we while I think it's human nature to hope and believe that someone else is coming to our rescue, that someone else is going to, you know, care as much as we do about our health. It's just not the reality of life, you know, and it doesn't mean that your doctor doesn't care. But your doctor also has sometimes hundreds of other patients on their plate. They're overwhelmed. They don't have the time to invest and no one is ever going to care about your health as much as you personally do. And so you have to remember that it needs to be more of this, um, symbiotic relationship where you, you have to be your own advocate and you have to ask certain questions

and maybe push a little bit harder than you feel comfortable with, but that's how you get to the bottom of things. Exactly. And you know, it's, it never, if you've never done that before, it doesn't feel comfortable. It feels like you're being bossy or mean, but it's not, it's just something you've never done before. That's different and new. And there's nothing wrong with asking questions. Even if you see your doctor in an authority position, you're paying them. They are really a service that you're paying for. So they don't get to tell you exactly what gets to happen with your body. You really should be able to advocate for yourself and get the labs

you need. They shouldn't tie your hands on the labs, especially if you're willing to pay for them. If insurance doesn't cover, cover them. And if, if doctors don't listen to you or they make you feel bad about yourself, you leave the office crying, you really need to look for another doctor. That's not okay. Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell you just how many messages I've gotten from people over the years that have told me, oh, I asked for X, Y, and Z and they wouldn't do it. Cause I've had people it's, it's so infuriating to me. Cause you know, I'll have people periodically write me and say, Hey, um, you know, I'm dealing with X, Y, and Z.

And I always kind of give them a similar, uh, response back where I'm like, Hey, you know, I'm not a doctor, Y, and Z, and I always kind of give them a similar response back where I'm like, hey, you know, I'm not a doctor. I can't give medical advice. But also, why don't you check X, Y, and Z? Why don't you ask your doctor for a hormone panel? Or, you know, I kind of try to like lead them in a certain direction that will help them. And then they'll come back to me and say, oh, my doctor refused the hormone panel. He said I didn't need it.

And I was like, but did you say that you want it anyways and that you you're paying for it? And you want answers? Yeah, it makes no sense. Right? I just, yeah, it's, it's really frustrating. And then also, like, you know, we have to remember, too, that while the doctor is the expert of the human body, you're the only expert of your own body. Yeah. And you need to remember that you come to the table with valuable information that will help him also get better answers for you. Yes, exactly. And there's, and that's, that's a okay, like you should be expected to do that and advocate for yourself. And you'll feel a lot better when you, when you learn how to do that and you'll be able to weed out physicians or practitioners who don't align with you and what you're looking to do that and you'll be able to weed out physicians or practitioners who don't

align with you and what you're looking to do with your health and your body. And you'll find people and attract people to you that make you, make you feel better and reassure you and educate you about your body if that's what you want. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so true. So what are maybe some other common underlying issues that you see with people that are maybe not, um, that people aren't really aware of? Um, besides like mold parasites and, uh, and, uh, Lyme disease and co-infections, a lot of it is emotional trauma and just continued stress or being stuck in fight or flight. And people, this happens so slowly and insidiously, mostly over our 20s and 30s, or really go, go, go trying to build our careers that you don't even realize your baseline has

been changed and that you're imbalanced in that stressed or fight or fight state. And sometimes people have been that way their whole life. If they sustain considerable childhood trauma or anything like that, sometimes you get that, you're stuck in that on position, that fight or fight on position for your entire life. And it's really hard for people to heal in a state of flight or fight or limbic system disarray. So oftentimes people don't understand how important that is. And that is one piece of the puzzle I address with everyone because it's, it's really hard to see yourself in that fashion. Um, right. Yes. Sorry if I interrupted you. I don't know. Okay. Please continue. Well, I literally felt like

you were just speaking to me personally because that is that's exactly what happened with me um I had a very traumatic event happen my little sister was killed when I was eight and right at that peak like they say like seven to like nine is really when your brain is developing and so I was right in that sweet spot and then I couldn't figure out why I couldn't figure out my health. Cause I was, you know, eating all the right things. I was studying nutrition. I was, um, prioritizing my health, prioritizing my exercise, but there was this missing piece that I could not figure out. And it was, um, yeah, I mean, my, my whole nervous system was an overdrive. I was living in fight or flight literally for like 20, Oh my God. Yeah. Like 25

years or something until I really got to the bottom of it. And you know, it helped me a lot. I don't know how you feel about this, but, uh, well, one was therapy. Um, and then on top of also like prioritizing my health, I was working with a functional medicine doctor, checking my hormones and all this stuff. And then I had a really amazing time with mushrooms that completely let me like I like released, you know, 25 years of grief that I had been physically holding on my chest. And it I mean, it completely changed my life. general and DMT and ayahuasca and all those plant medicines can really be helpful, especially around episodes that are traumatic or there's some sustained PTSD, which I even think people have around their health and medicine in general too. Like we've all got something, you know, there's some sort of baggage or trauma that we've all sustained.

It's really hard to get out of here without being scarred up a little bit. So, you know, right. And, and I really think that plant medicine is, is a great way to change neuronal connections and, and really change your mind. I mean, Michael Pollan wrote a book about it. He's so great. I love him so much. Also just love it. Can we just talk about how the direction that he went? Like I discovered him when he was writing about food and he was really part of that, the beginning stages for me that got me really excited into food. And I was, you know, very invested in that. And then he just took this turn with drugs and I was like, Oh, this is also

amazing. Like how, you know what I mean? He's really, he's really cool. I love him. Yeah. Very open minded person for sure. Which is I think really important. It is really important. It is. So yeah, I love that you did that, that you used kind of an alternative way and gave it a shot because you probably didn't want to be on medicine your whole life, right? No. You know, and I never was, I don't know where this really even comes from. It's always been an innate thing for me. And I just want to say to everyone, I'm just speaking to my own personal experience, but despite all of the anxiety that I suffered through, I mean, I still have anxiety, but it is not at the levels that it used to be. Um, I just never wanted to be on medication. I

had one doctor when I was like 14 that put me on Zoloft. And I remember just never wanted to be on medication. I had one doctor when I was like 14 that put me on Zoloft. And I remember, I mean, I was 14. I barely even like knew what was going on. And I remember like day three, looking at my mom and being like, I feel weird. I don't like this. And she was like, throw it in the trash. And then I just never, um, I just decided to go about it different ways and, you know, no shame on anyone that goes on a different route, but I was very, um, adamant on doing this without medication a different route, but I was very adamant on doing this without medication. I wanted to, I just really believe in, in every area of my life, really getting to the root cause, right? Like had I just put myself on medication, I would not

have been facing the real issue is that I went through a super traumatic thing and I needed to face it head on and like, let it go through me, you know? Yeah, absolutely. That's part of what I think the plant medicine and a lot of people and the body tries to teach us is that you feel the emotion. You need to let yourself feel it. A lot of us will do anything to, we'll do any sort of avoidance to avoid feeling awful, nasty, negative thoughts, right? Or pain. And so it's really important to let yourself feel that pain, feel that negative emotion, but don't dwell there or stay there or get stuck there. Let it move through you. I like how you said that. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it took me a long time to figure that out. So, but you know, we got there eventually.

Yeah, absolutely. I get it. Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad that you, that you, that you talked about that, brought it up and also that you address that in all of your patients. Cause I think, um, I think we're getting there that people are starting to recognize the importance of it, but I think it's been ignored for a long time. Oh yeah. And suppressed and really people just gaslit for looking at alternative ways to heal. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, okay. So I know your thing is, um, something that you call kill bind sweat, like the kill bind sweat method. Can you talk a little bit about that and what it is? Yes. So this actually caught on accidentally online. I just sort of hashtagged something and then everyone else loved it and hashtagged it.

It sounds really curious and sexy and all that stuff. So, you know, Kill Vine Sweat, I don't recommend this for anyone who has never done a detox before or is a newbie or you don't know if your drainage pathways are open. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, we can discuss that in a minute, but that probably means you shouldn't be doing Kill, Bind, Sweat right off the bat. So what it is, is Kill is taking an herbal antimicrobial, you know, something like oil of oregano, most people have heard of, waiting a little bit till, so you don't bind up the killer and taking something called a toxin binder which is most people have heard of things like diatomaceous earth or charcoal or pentanilic clay bioactive carbons all these fulvic and humic acid all these

are great binders and then getting in a sauna after that. And that helps to kill off any microbes or pathogens that are in excess there, bind up any toxins or those dying pathogens, and then you're sort of sweating out what you just mopped up. So it's a really helpful way for people suffering with a variety of conditions to help their body rid themselves of the problem. So when, when someone does this, is this something that you do at one time and then you're free of it? Or is it kind of like a detox plan where you're doing it maybe for like two weeks where you're taking pills or whatever it is, like kind of, how does it look? Or is it different per like, depending on what you're different for most people, you know, you, some people get in the sauna and they feel so much

worse and they're wiped out, which means you kind of need to back up and probably work on opening your drainage pathways before that. But if people are ready, their body's prepped and primed, they're going to the bathroom well, they're sleeping well, their bile and liver movement is pretty good, their lip movement's pretty good, they can sweat okay, then they're probably ready for Kilb can sweat. Okay. Then they're probably ready for kill bind sweat. And that's usually done, you know, three to four times per week for a few months for most people, depending on what you're dealing with. Interesting. Okay. So I just had two questions come up and I'm going to ask you both of them. And then if you get confused, I'll remind you. Okay. One, I want to talk about

the drainage pathways a little bit, cause I haven't even fully heard that. So what does that mean exactly that they're not open and how does someone know? And like, how can they, um, open them? And then I also want to ask you, so I know someone that, um, self-proclaims that they don't really sweat. They're like, I can't sweat. My mom was the same way. I'm just not really a big sweater. And I kind of want to know what your take is on that because one, it concerns me because I'm like, is there something else going on that we could help like open that up? Or is that like a genetic thing? That's just like, it is what it is. I mean, she can have a genetic predisposition. It's mitochondria dysfunctional. She can't sweat. Um, and that's a drainage pathway in itself. And you get your

mitochondria from your maternal side. So you can look at your mom and usually see what you got. It's not good if you can't sweat. That's how you release toxins. That's how you cool off. It's not good at all. It means that you have dysfunctional mitochondria that make ATP, which equal energy, which translate to heat. So she's having some problems with her energy makers, which are in every single cell. And that is a drainage pathway. Like I just mentioned, I have a whole hour long course on drainage pathways on Wellness Plus. It's like an hour long intake form. So we can't go into the detailed version of it.

But the short version is it's making sure that you can sweat, you can poop, your bile is working. You can process caffeine, alcohol, fast. Okay, your liver is in good working shape at that point. Um, you know, that you sleep, you feel restored in the morning. You have pretty good energy. You don't have a bunch of cellulite, your lymph moves. Okay. Um, and obviously I mentioned sweating. So all of these things need to be working before we jump right into a detox because people need to be able to release what you're killing off. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that makes perfect sense. And I'm, I'm curious now I want to dive in a little bit more.

I mean, when, when I, in this combo, not with you, I mean, but with my friend that has this issue, cause I'm like, maybe we can get to the bottom of this. Cause when she said that, it made me really nervous. So I was like, you need to sweat. That's like your body's way of getting rid of all of your toxins. Exactly. Yeah. You can definitely release certain heavy metals easier and sweat than you can in like feces or urine. So it's really, it's helpful to be able to release some of the things you breathe in, some of your things, some of the things your skin absorbs in some of the things you put in your body every day. It's really important to have all those among trees open and working properly. Yeah. Okay. Well, so, um, I'd love to have all those among trees open and working properly.

Yeah. Okay. Well, so, um, I'd love to have a link to put the show notes later that we can send people to that course. Cause it sounds like if people listening or having issues with that, maybe they can take that course and get to the bottom of, you know, whatever is happening there. Yeah. Um, I, yeah, absolutely. People need to understand that information. I mean, I've heard so many people like you tell me that by like, listen, they don't sweat and they think it's a good thing. And so it's not even we need to just educate people on the very basics, but it's not even It's not like we're like, yeah, I can't wait, you know, to be all sweaty and gross on like a hike. But you know, I'm always, this might sound weird, but I'm like grateful when I find myself sweating on a hike or, you know, I love going to sauna and stuff. Cause it, yeah, it's really good for you. It's so healthy to be sweating. You want to be sweating. Yes. Maybe not on a date, but right now. Yeah. They're time and a place. Right. But I, I totally feel so much better, like rejuvenated after a good sauna session or a good workout. You know, really, I do. I understand how it's,

you know, definitely turns on the immune system. It definitely helps, turns on heat shock proteins that help us, you know, heal and helps even in some studies, neurologic conditions. So, you know, getting in a sauna is really healing everyone. Yeah. Well, actually, and this is a great segue because I was going to say, what are some detox practices that you promote for patients? And then let's also talk about ones that are accessible for everyone. So let's say someone doesn't have access to a sauna.

Yeah, I mean, as long as you can move your body, I tell everyone it's a privilege to move your body. So you should be doing so. So you can just work out in a sauna or excuse me, work out and sweat that way. Or you can get in a bathtub and take an Epsom salt bath and sweat that way. Definitely. People can also do castor oil packs on their right upper quadrant of their abdomen for their liver. And that helps move the bile and increases natural killer cells which help fight viruses and cancer and then yeah and then coffee enemas i usually don't start

people with coffee i usually start them with distilled water um if they're anxious they can even do chamomile tea enemas just organic loose leaf chamomile tea. And that helps bind to GABA receptors, which help calm down anxiety. And then coffee is like the last step they graduate to. And that's more of a liver cleanse than anything else. So I have people lie on their right side and try and hold the coffee for 12 to 15 minutes. So it's a few circulations through the hepato circulatory system. And then really that helps bulk up the bile production. It helps stimulate and secrete bile and really get the bowel moving as well. So I always tell people stagnation breeds disease. So you really want all your fluids in your body free flowing so that your white blood cells, your cells are able to troll and see if there's any problems. Yeah, that's great advice. The coffee enema one is

an interesting one to me because I've always been so scared to do it. And everyone I know that is, you know, a health expert, yourself included, is like, you got to do this. It's so good for you. What is kind of the like, well, one, does it get you jacked up if you do coffee enema? It doesn't me. No, actually, it triggers your vagus nerve and calms a lot of people down. But you know, there is a little bit of coffee absorbed through the rectal vein. So you have to be, you know, careful that people don't react, you know, so, so, so jittery or, you know, really aggressively to coffee because that little bit absorbed, it can be enough for some people to react. But in general, most people, it calms them down, attacks the vagus nerve, which is under

control of the rest and digest system. It really does help to stimulate bile, which is also a rest and digest process through the parasympathetic system. So it doesn't really jack people up. And it is, you know, there can be some mishaps, like if the coffee's too hot or it's too cold, there's silly things like that. But I if the coffee's too hot or it's too cold, there's silly things like that. But I've never had anyone have a negative or bad reaction from it. That's amazing. I think it's probably about time I start doing them. I mean, all my friends do at this point. I'm just like, I don't know why I just,

it's always kind of like freaked me out. But I do know it's really good for you. What are some like diet and lifestyle practices that you tell your patients to do? Like what do you kind of acknowledge is like really helpful that you see really help your patients? So just some daily habits that help them. Is that what you're asking mostly? Yeah, just like, yeah, in general, kind of like what have you really seen improvement in your patients? And maybe even something that surprised you that a patient started doing this and you just like, yeah, in general, kind of like, what have you really seen improvement in your patients? And maybe even something that surprised you that a patient started doing this and you're like, oh, wow, this actually really helped them a lot.

You know, really for neurologic things and specifically MS is B venom therapy. So I've seen a lot of improvement in people who use B venom therapy. It really helps to stimulate and cause a little chaos in the immune system and helps the immune system settle in a more proper fashion or gives it a second chance to settle in a balanced way, if you will. And so the body works like that a lot, actually. And so I've seen huge results with people with pain, with neurologic weakness, imbalance in their immune system really do well with B venom therapy. And so that surprised me because I've never been trained in that. I'd never had any experience in that. And now it's something that I will often recommend to people who I think would get good benefit from it, which is a lot of people. Some other things, really just a lot of things to help the nervous system and the limbic system and the vagus nerve. I really like referring out to upper

cervical chiropractors who can make a big difference by manipulating and massaging the neck, the cranial sacral system to really help reset the vagus nerve that way too. That's what I wanted to ask you about was the vagus nerve. So can we explain to people what the, what it does, what the importance of it as of it is and why, uh, yeah, why you're honing in on it so much? Like what is, yeah. Why should we care about the vagus nerve? So the vagus nerve starts at the back of the brain and it runs all the way down to pretty much your inner organs, all the way down your bladder. And on the way down, it innervates or sends little nerve branches down to certain organs and glands. And so it really does that in all the chewing and swallowing muscles of the face.

It helps control the eyes, some of the pain and facial expressions. It innervates the thyroid, the thymus, parts of the heart, the digestive tract, the liver, the gallbladder, especially the gallbladder and the bile release. It helps with insulin release and goes all the way down to the bladder. And so really, if this nerve is not balanced or has a lot of toxins, microbes that are infesting it, it will really start to act a little haywire. People can feel unsafe, like they don't belong in the world. If it's pretty triggered, they can have easy syncope, you're passing out, they can have heart palpitations or, you know, lowering blood pressure and feel like they're going to pass out due to that.

And so really making sure people feel safe, secure, that that nerve is being able to, you know, fire when it's supposed to, and not in a haywire fashion can make a big difference to people perceiving that they feel safe to heal, which is important. Wow. I've never heard that before. That's fascinating. The only context I've ever heard the vagus nerve is, I do know it's the reason why we call the gut the second brain because the vagus nerve goes directly from the gut to the brain. So there's that connection, but I've never heard this component of it, which is really interesting. So are there, um, are there times maybe where you see that people's healing is being blocked because there there's something maybe being blocked in the vagus nerve or it needs to be stimulated or I don't even really know how to word that. Um, yeah, that's a good

question for sure. You know, um, people don't really understand about this nerve and they don't understand how to really balance it. And so there's a lot of information out there and there's a lot of people and practitioners who specialize in this, but if you're going to really get to the vagus nerve and you're going to really fix it, you have to address people's belief systems, their thoughts, their trauma, their perceived trauma, and their childhood trauma. And that's really what makes a big difference in resetting this nerve for them, really. I think I've gone through all the questions that I have, but I wanted to ask you if there's anything else that we haven't gone over that you

think is really important for people to hear? Just that I really want people to understand that if you're someone that has a recurrent microbial infestation or pathogenic invasion, that no matter what you do, it seems like you keep kill, kill, killing, and they keep coming back. Look to the terrain of your body. What toxin is there? What trauma is there? What local environmental exposure might be there that's keeping that pathogen there, because my perspective has changed a lot on pathogens. You know, for example, bacteria, the great decomposers and mold eats bacteria, so it's all a big ecosystem. So usually pathogens are invited there because it's hospitable. And so you have to ask yourself, why are they there? What are they there digesting to help me? And how can I better my terrain and fix my body so it's

not hospitable to pathogens anymore? I'm so glad you brought that up because I was actually a question that I did forget to bring up and ask you because I was going to ask you what you thought about terrain theory, which for people listening that don't know what that is, it basically means that it's, you know, the normal thinking is that it's called germ theory, where basically we're, we get attacked by a virus or bacteria or whatever, and that ends up being what is harmful to us. But the terrain theory is more that it's, it's more about your terrain, your specific health. And if you're not in good health, then you, yeah, your body is more hospitable to a pathogen or whatever. And it's not going to be able to fight off this disease,

infection, whatever it is. And I wanted to know what your thought was on that. So, Oh yeah, absolutely. Totally agree with everything you just said. Yep. Yeah. You know, I will say though, I find myself a little bit, I, yeah, absolutely. Totally agree with everything you just said. Yep. Yeah. You know, I will say, though, I find myself a little bit I definitely am very, very far terrain theory leaning, but I almost find myself in a little bit in the middle because I do feel like aren't there instances where like there really is like a virus that's like, you know, no matter how healthy you are, it to a certain extent will take over your body regardless. We think so. You know, we, we don't even know if viruses are real because we can only get them and corrupt cell culture. We can't get them in it from the sick

person's fluids. So when they get them, when we lower the cell's metabolism, we give it antibiotics, antifungals. Um, we put proteases, the breakdown proteins in there. And what pops out is called a virus. We've never gotten a virus from a sick person's fluids only. So what are we really seeing that we're calling viruses? Could it just be cell debris? Could it just be exosomes? We don't really know what is causing infectivity and when we're around other people.

And the reason I say that, I mean, we could be right. It could be a virus. It could be something like a, you know, invisible microscopic, you know, infective particle, or it could be, you know, something we don't know about yet because we haven't really proven viruses yet. It could be, you know, you think about trees that warn each other of a beetle attack miles away. Think about women sinking up in their cycles when they're around each other. So we don't really know exactly. It's still up for debate in my opinion. Wow. That's so interesting. Well, I think that the lesson to be learned and especially in the last two years more than ever is that your health is the most important and that's going to be your greatest defense against anything that

your body comes under attack against. Totally, totally. It's the best way you are the one person who cares about your body, yourself and your health more than anyone else. Yes. Okay. So before we go, I want to ask you the question that I ask everyone, what are your personal health non-negotiables? These are like, no matter what, no matter how busy your day is, these are things that you prioritize to make sure that your health is in order. For sure. So definitely working out. I always, you know, five to six days a week, I move my body and work out probably 30 minutes to an hour a day. And I always really try to do something with my lymph too. That's really important to me because that is my sluggish drainage pathway.

And then it's really, it's really important for me to also find peace and quiet and to kind of envision the person that I'm always trying to become and work my way slowly up to becoming that person. So keep things into a bigger picture, a bigger vision. I love that so much. Well, for everyone listening, where can they find you? Yes. So there's, I always say there's hierarchies and levels to how you guys can interact with me. So I have just online and social media. I'm pretty active on Instagram, Dr. Jess.MD. And on Facebook as well. They're trying to get me to start a TikTok.

I'll let you guys know. I don't want to. And then there's my website, DrJessMD.com, which is a lot of free blogs and FAQs that are really helpful. And then finally, there's my website app, which is app.DrJessMD.com. And that's where you can interact with me on webinars, on professional courses. We have a community forum where I talk to you personally and root cause quickies. So it's a lot of fun over there. I love it. Well, thank you so much for this conversation. It was such a joy to have you on.

Absolutely, Courtney. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week.

The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. you