Realfoodology - How to Build a Beautiful Jaw - For You and Your Kids | Dr. Hilary Fritsch

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

258: My conversation with Dr. Hilary Fritsch changed the way I think about my oral health. She’s an airway dentist, which means she specializes in the link between breathing and dentistry. She explains that there is a wrong way to breathe, and it can totally ruin your facial structure. Hilary is also a pro at helping babies and small children develop a healthy, beautiful jaw, and is calling out the things that interfere with that. You'll get practical tips to help yourself and your kids build a healthy jawline and get better sleep - it's literally a win-win. Topics Discussed: → Why sleep apnea is a jaw disease → How mouth breathing is ruining your face  → Tips for improving your jawline → How kids can develop healthy jaws    → The benefits of a strong tongue   → The difference between an airway dentist and a traditional dentist Sponsored By: → Pacha | Go to https://station.page/pacha/contest/realfoodology and enter to win the ultimate self-care goody basket, curated especially for Realfoodology listeners!  → MASA Chips | Go to https://MASAChips.com/Realfoodology and use code Realfoodology for 25% off your first order. → CURED Nutrition | Right now, CURED Nutrition is offering my listeners an exclusive 20% off Serenity Gummies with a monthly subscription. Just head to https://www.curednutrition.com/REALFOODOLOGY and use the code REALFOODOLOGY at checkout. → JASPR | Get $400 off with code REALFOODOLOGY and link is https://www.jaspr.co/realfoodology. Timestamps:  → 00:00 - Introduction  → 00:37 - Sleep Apnea → 02:39 - Diagnosing Sleep Apnea in Women  → 04:10 - Palatial Widening    → 06:40 - Breastfeeding + Jaw Development   → 09:45 - Mouth Breathing and Jaw Line  → 13:40 - Breathing Through Your Nose  → 15:39 - Fixing Your Jawline as an Adult   → 17:13 - Vivos Appliance  → 18:31 - Treating TMJ, Clenching and Grinding  → 20:44 - Airway Dentistry: An Emerging Field   → 25:47 - Link Between Jaw and Teeth  → 29:29 - Myofunctional Therapy: Tools + Benefits    → 31:27 - Mouth Tape + Nasal Dilators → 33:53 - Understanding Tongue Tie  → 36:58 - Tools and Tips for Kids’ Jaw Development    → 44:39 - Mouth Breathing + Cavities  → 45:47 - Can Kids Mouth Tape?   → 47:45 - Signs Your Kids Are Mouth Breathing  → 49:28 - When To Start Treatment for Kids  → 52:37 - Starting Your Own Jaw Journey  → 54:05 - Sleep Apnea is a Jaw Disease  → 55:56 - How to Find the Right Dentist  → 57:30 - Where to Find Hilary   Check Out Dr. Hilary Fritsch: → Instagram  → Saddle Peak Dental  Check Out Courtney:  →  LEAVE US A VOICE MESSAGE →  Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! →  @realfoodology →  www.realfoodology.com →  My Immune Supplement by 2x4 →  Air Dr Air Purifier →  AquaTru Water Filter →  EWG Tap Water Database Produced By: Drake Peterson

On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. start to put the pieces together and find help. on the Real Phonology podcast. I'm so happy to be here with you. Thanks for having me. This is so exciting. This is so exciting. I was actually telling you right before we started recording that the timing of this is kind of funny because I've been having a lot of sleep issues the last couple of years and I just recently had a sleep test done and the doctor told me that I was like borderline sleep apnea. He didn't actually diagnose me with it, but he was like, you're on the cusp of it and could probably be having some symptoms because you're so close to having it. So I want to actually dive into that first because I'm sure maybe some of my listeners

are also going, okay, well, I didn't even know that somebody could have sleep apnea that didn't have like a weight issue. Because my thinking was always, oh, you're super, if somebody is carrying a lot of extra weight on them, then of course they would have sleep apnea because they have all this weight on their organs. But I didn't realize that it could also be other things. Yeah, that is one of the things about this that's really tricky is because there's this young fit female profile that we talk a lot about in our dentistry, where you are the type of patient that would totally fall through the cracks.

resistance syndrome, which just means I don't breathe through my nose very well. And because of that I end up mouth breathing at night and then my tongue can fall back in my airway a little bit. And I have all these compensation patterns that I use to prevent that from happening, which causes head and neck tension, because I think I'm doing little tricks in the night to keep my airway open. Then I have been my whole life. But if your tongue falls back in your airway, But really hard to diagnose because women have a lower threshold for arousal so we're not going to totally conk out into an apnea for 10 seconds like a man would. And so we don't get diagnosed with sleep apnea because of that. And then people say, you're fine, you don't have sleep apnea. And in reality you have a problem that needs to be addressed with your jaws, but nobody really notices or helps.

It's so, oh my gosh, this is exactly what's happening to me. And I also want to ask you, so don't let me forget about what you just said about doing the expansion thing. Cause that's definitely going into everything I also want to talk about with the jaw and all that. But what's so interesting is that, so the whole reason I started doing this is two reasons. One, I actually don't know that I've ever known what it's like to wake up feeling fully rested.

If I sleep like 10 hours, I still will just like not fully feel rested. And then with my fiance, he started saying to me, you're like snoring a lot. And nobody has ever told me that. Like I've had like boyfriends like ex-boyfriends in the past be like, oh yeah, you kind of snored last night a little bit. But he's the first person to tell me, oh no, it's kind of happening consistently. So I had this sleep test done. And there was the apnea thing. And then he also was like, you have a bare, it's so funny because all these are just barely

borderline. He was like, you have a little bit of deviated septum thing going on. He doesn't know that it's enough for me to actually get surgery, maybe we're going to assess it. But yeah, so what were you saying about the, so I guess my question is, so you have it, so what are you doing about it and what would you recommend someone doing that has sleep apnea that can help with all of that? So for adults, I really like to remodel the palette because the roof of the mouth

is the floor of the nose. When you look at a CT scan, that because the roof of the mouth is the floor of the nose. When you look at a CT scan, that little thin piece of bone is also the floor of the nose. And when we widen the palate, we can also widen the nose. And when we widen the palate, also we take a high vaulted palate and kind of flatten it out, and it'll help straighten out a deviated septum. So the deviated septum is often wrinkled because the palate grew vaulted instead of flat

and it kind of takes that bone that was meant to be longer and wrinkles it up and then you'll have maybe one nostril that doesn't work as well because of it. So as we remodel the palate, like immediately you just feel the nose start to open up. do that now? It also creates a giant diastema as the Marpie opens. And Avivos is like way more gentle. Like I've been wearing mine since the summer. I have a little bit of a diastema now, but it's hardly noticeable. And what's a diastema? Like a gap between your two front teeth.

Oh, I would never, I don't even see it. It's super light. So like sometimes I feel like I have a little pepper stuck in there or something. Like it's minimal. But for the first time in my life I can breathe through my nose. So I actually had surgery on my nose 10 years ago and it relapsed. It's minimal. nose surgery, sinus surgeries and stuff that relapse because we have to get to the root cause of like proper tongue posture and lip seal and nasal breathing.

Okay, so let's dive into that. Yeah, because I'm very focused on this right now because I'm getting married in June I've talked a lot about on the podcast I'm hoping to be pregnant by the end of the year and so I want to know going into this when we have kids what we can do in order to help develop their full palette and get them to be nose breathers. So I want to talk about all of this, the mouth taping, all that. So, and then I also want to address too. So like someone like myself, who is already very formed, like, is there things that we can do? So let's talk about first. So you've been quoted saying that 98.5% of kids aren't developing their airways properly. How is that possible?

What's happening with that? This is crazy because I have had my practice open for a year and a half now and I've seen two kids, actually their mom was like a functional nutritionist, who had an adequately developed airway. Two? Only two. That's crazy. Yeah.

Because basically the biggest thing is epigenetic changes since baby formula came out. So like my grandmother and my mom both didn't breastfeed and my teeth were super crooked. When we nurse, we have to like pull our mandible forward to latch. So that helps with the mandibular growth and it's very physical to get the milk out. So it develops the muscles which develops the skeleton. And when you nurse, you have to breathe through your nose. So it's like this perfect plan that the universe or God, whatever you want to call it, is designed to help children's airways and faces develop.

So basically when Baby Formula came out, we saw massive changes start to happen. And now with each generation, it's gotten worse and worse. And now we're like seven's gotten worse and worse. And now we're like seven, eight generations in and we have 98.5% of kids with a malocclusion. Which means every single kid you know gets braces and every single kid you know gets their wisdom teeth out. Because they don't have enough room for their teeth so their teeth are crowded. And they don't have enough room for their wisdom teeth so we pull them out and everybody acts like, oh, that's just normal, all the way out. But so the other big thing was, is our soft diet, which I feel like 400 years ago royal families started getting crowded teeth.

And I think maybe they were eating like puddings and jellies and everything was soft and cooked for them. But that was like where we first started seeing when you look at ancient skulls, teeth that weren't perfectly formed in the face. But now we're at this like, I mean, you know the epicenter of nasty foods that give you no nutrition. They just melt in your mouth. And then get stuck to your teeth. Yeah, food scientists love to create products for babies, I think they're the worst. So when we use our muscles, we develop the skeleton.

So if we're eating soft foods, we get these weak jaws. And so it's really sad because children have, our faces are affected, our aesthetics. Obviously we can't breathe and we can't sleep, but having facial aesthetics changes is, to me, like, really sad. I agree. And this blew my mind. I just started learning about this within the last couple of years, and I remember somebody I follow, it might have been Carnivore Aurelius, it was somebody like that, and he posted, like, side by side, this is what a mouth breather looks like and this is what a nose breather looks like.

And the mouth breather was like, or sorry, yeah, the mouth breather, the jaw was like not fully formed. It was like in a little bit. And it was kind of that classic side profile that let's be real, nobody wants, right? And then the nose breather, it was like fully formed. It was like a, you know, like Hollywood star, like looked like this person went in and got like jaw filler, you know, because it was so perfect. So what's happening there? What is that? Like why is there such a difference

in how our jaws form just by how we're breathing? So the tongue is the architect of the face. And when the tongue is up on the roof of the mouth, it pushes forward and wide to help with jaw development. So we really need the tongue pushing forward to get that beautiful forward growth. So we have a nice jaw line. And when it pushes forward, you also get cheekbones and lip support the tongue pushing forward to get that beautiful forward growth.

So we have a nice jawline. And when it pushes forward you also get cheekbones and lip support and that duck face that everyone makes for selfies. That's like a fake of forward growth, where you get that nice line from the cheekbones forward and no nasolabial fold. That's just what our faces are meant to grow like. So Weston Price studied all of these basically third world cultures to figure out why our supermodel is coming from these foreign countries. And he found that eating organ meats and breastfeeding and having like real food helps develop the face and the jaws and the airway. So we've gotten really far away from that, unfortunately,

and that's why every kid needs intervention. I'm so excited to officially announce a giveaway that I'm doing with Pacha Soap Company. If you love clean, feel-good products that turn your bathroom into a spa, you're going to want in on this. One lucky Real Foodology listener is going to win a full self-care bundle from Pacha, including their plant milk bar soap pack.

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and how they're matching that exactly because what is really trendy right now and how they're matching that exactly because what is really trendy right now? Everybody's getting lip filler, everybody's getting jaw filler to like bring out their jaws and I can't help but to think that that is a symptom of our horrible diets and the fact that we have not been paying attention to this and we don't know why so many people are not having that anymore and everybody wants it and it's probably because we're not eating super healthy anymore.

That's totally why. It's funny because when I go on Instagram, my algorithm thinks that I want plastic surgery or something, and it's all like filler and like, I don't know what, like everything's filler, like these crazy things that they can do to help the nose. Because the other thing that happens is you'll get like a bent nose when you don't get enough forward growth because the nose kind of like bends down to meet the lack of mid-face development. Yeah.

So people doing all kinds of filler to fix all of these things and I'm just like, my God, this is all like if you had, well, if you saw an ear, we didn't as when you were like three, but if we had changed your diet and got you breastfeeding, if it's possible, There's so... Like, people think like, oh, I just have bad genetics, like I got my dad's ugly face or something. That's not the problem. The problem is totally what we're eating and... And the way we're breathing. And the way we're breathing.

Especially, specifically, let's be clear, while we're sleeping at night, right? Is that really what makes a difference? Well, ideally, you have your tongue on the roof of your mouth all the time, unless you're talking or eating. We should be breathing through our nose all day. So I tell patients that, like, if you're not breathing through your nose for,

let's say, eight hours a night, that's a third of your life, it's like a pond that doesn't have good water flowing through it. It'll become stagnant and drippy and congested and gross, and you won't be able to breathe through it. So really important to breathe through it all the time. And when you're not breathing through it, then your tongue can't be on the roof of your mouth and it can't do its orthodontic job.

That's so fascinating. So let's say, I mean, let's use me as an example. I would love to have a better formed jaw and just have everything have moved out a little bit. Is it too late for me or there's things that I can do? It's definitely not too late. I think you have a beautiful moved out a little bit. and still get some nice expansion. so you'll have teeth from corner to corner. If you think of your mouth as the garage for your tongue,

if it's not big enough because it's kind of narrow, which is almost everyone, then your tongue's going to hang out the back of the garage and close off the air down into your lungs. So it's like a progressive disease. It would be brilliant for you to do a little expansion and some malfunctional therapy. You could use that straw I brought you, get your tongue nice and strong. Oh yeah, I want to talk about that. that you put at the roof of your mouth? is a key that you can turn to widen, and then a second key that pushes the pre-maxilla forward.

So it basically, like, we think what it does is stimulate some cells to lay down more bone. Wow, that's so fascinating. And I'm assuming I'd probably have to go see a specialist, right, to help me like turn the key and all that? Yeah, there are very few of us that know how to use that device properly. Really? Yeah, so sometimes it gets a bad rap because sometimes people that don't know how to use that device properly.

Sometimes it gets a bad rap because sometimes people that don't know how to use it don't get good results. I have a friend that I'm staying with here in Denver. I started him on it a week ago and he won't take it out. He was talking in a lisp the whole time we were there, I was like, you are so cute. they have a camera that are trapped back also are trying to compensate for their airways And that just creates all kinds of tension. And then those same patients that are trapped back also are trying to compensate for their airways so they carry a lot of tension in their jaws.

So as soon as we expand and we make room for the mandible to go to its happy place, TMJ. It's like this, like a holy grail in dentistry, like how to figure out how to help someone with TMJ issues. And then you put them in a vivo supply and start expansion and they're like, oh, it's better. Like almost always, it's crazy. I mean, I'm about to get out of this podcast and. I feel like if they're clenching and grinding, first of all, I've gotten to a point now where if somebody's clenching and grinding, I'm like, I'm sending you home with a sleep study.

Yeah. Whereas I used to be like, $800 night guard and then... That's what they did with me. They're slowly dying in their sleep. It's wrong. We need to change that. We need to be sleep testing people if they're clenching and grinding. 100%.

I honestly was shocked that somebody just now recommended I get a sleep study done this year. Because I have been complaining about tension in my jaw, clenching my teeth. Every time I go to the dentist, they're like, oh my God, you're clenching so much. I've had to get on a melt. Like nobody has ever said to me, we want to test your sleep until this year. Which is crazy. Well, I'm glad that somebody, was it a dentist that recommended that? No, it was my functional doctor.

Okay, I was going to say. Very few dentists know about airway. We were taught nothing about airway, tongues, toxins, nutrition in dental school. Like, nothing, not a word was uttered. And so it's very bizarre. People think I'm like a quack. I mean, welcome to the club. Everyone thought I was quack forever, so it's fine. I know. I'm like a quack. I mean, welcome to the club, everyone thought I was quack forever, so it's fine.

I know, I'm sort of over it, I'm like, this is just what we have to do in order to take better care of people. Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing, is like, you're not a quack, you're just early to this. I mean, I hope in the next 20 years or so we're going to really start recognizing this as being a huge issue. I know at least a lot, the conversations are starting to be had slowly in my friend group, which I think is a good sign, because everybody's starting to have kids, everybody's worried about the formation of the jaw, they're worried about if their kid is mouth breathing. It's starting to become a conversation.

So you're just early. Yeah, I agree. I think this is an emerging field and eventually people will start to catch on. And that's like my big goal is to just awaken the mothers because I think that's where this change is going to come from. Like as moms are like, I need to help this kid. I feel in my heart that something's wrong. teeth and then they start to put the pieces together and find help. And as they demand more of that kind of care for their kids, the dentistry will start to catch on and medicine will start to catch on. And we can hopefully really change what we're doing wrong because we're doing a lot wrong right now.

Yeah, it seems like it in all areas, right? It's so interesting. I feel like we're kind of in this, not even kind of, I feel like we in this like awakening time right now and so much about what we have done in the past as humans and as a society, I feel like is slowly being uncovered and we're realizing like, oh, we actually had this wrong. I'm seeing it in the food, I'm seeing it with the dentistry, we're seeing it in the medical system. We're kind of in this wild place right now where we're realizing that we've been doing

a lot of things wrong and it's harming us and we need to like steer the course in a different direction. Yeah, I think we need to be willing to admit that we were doing it wrong. Like I shouldn't have been making night guards and not sleep testing people. I shouldn't have been doing IPR when we did Invisalign where it's like you thin the teeth and then kind of pull them back to fit in. That was making your mouth smaller. There's a lot of stuff that we do wrong all day, every day. And we have to be willing to admit it so that we can start to move forward and do better. After a really long, busy day, all I want to do is just relax, chill on the couch, and hang out with Hector. That's where Cure Nutrition comes in.

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It's that good. Again, go to Jasper, that's J-A-S-P-R.co slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology to save $400 today. It's so interesting that we're talking about all this jaw stuff because when I was little, I had an, I think it was an overbite and they had me in this contraption where it was a retainer on top retainer in the bottom and they had these metal pieces that would lock into each other and it would pull my bottom teeth forward. And no wonder I have so many breathing problems now because the real issue was not actually being addressed.

Yeah, but at least they pulled you forward and didn't retract. Because sometimes what they would do is pull teeth and then pull the maxilla back to like meet the bottom arch. And that is a disaster. And maybe they did. I was so young. I don't know which direction they were pulling it. But I think I remember they were pulling it forward. I think. I feel like with your jawline, they must have pulled you forward. I think so. I hope so young, I don't know which direction they were pulling it, but I think I remember they were pulling it forward, I think. I feel like with your jawline they must have pulled you forward.

I think so. I hope so, yeah. But like there's two pieces we need to pull forward and we need to go wider. Yes. So some people I see have really beautiful forward growth, but they're narrow. And so their tongue is still pushing back into their airway. And then you get those little like bumps on the side of your teeth, like not bumps, but like I get it sometimes and I've noticed if I'm really like anxious and I think it's because when I'm grinding, my teeth is, my teeth are kind of like biting the side of my tongue a little bit

and that makes me think that my whole, yeah, what do you call that, is like too thin. Yeah, it's called a scalloped tongue when you have indentations from your teeth on your tongue and it's just a sign that your tongue is fighting for more room. Wow. So, you have to make more room and like get the tongue happy in there. So it's not, that's a big red flag that is going to be in your airway. Wow. And isn't there a thing too that sometimes they say, and maybe this is what's happening with TMJ too,

but if your teeth are not in the way that like you were meant to be, that they're constantly fighting to get back there. And so maybe that you're like grinding or you're clenching. Yeah, I see that a lot where like the way that your teeth fit together and the way that your jaws seated properly are two different things. And the jaw will kind of like fight to get that spot. So a lot of times in men, I feel like they just grind the tooth out of the way. And women can do that spot. get it to a happy place. But airway dentists are basically docs

that have decided to go full on airway all the time. We are hard to find, I don't think there's one in every state, even. People travel from all over to come see me. So go see her. and kind of leading the charge. Like I said, you have to have experience with that Vivo Suppliance, for example. If you're going to be doing clear aligners, you have to know that you can actually expand to this sizes how much room do we want behind the soft palate,

if you don't find the right doctor, you're not going to get results, and then it'll seem like you were on the wrong path when really you just didn't get all the way there. Yeah, interesting. Okay, and then, so there's the Axios thing that helps too, and then the straw. So you mentioned the straw, you brought me this little gift, thank you so much, it's very sweet. So what is that? Let's tell my audience a little bit about that.

That straw is kind of like a multifunctional therapy device. It's like a trainer tool to help strengthen your tongue. What do you think about that? So even if I do all this work to make your mouth big and beautiful and wide, and get you lots of tongue space, if your tongue isn't strong enough to stay up in your palate, then it can still fall back in the airway. Like I've seen people with giant airways that have severe sleep apnea because their tongue posture is poor. And whatever we do orthodontically will relapse if your tongue isn't strong. Interesting. So myofunctional therapy is the gold standard, which is rewiring the brain to keep the tongue on the roof of the mouth and getting the tongue and the lips nice and strong to actually have that good posture.

But that straw is like a good hack for, because myofunctional therapy is like a year of work. It's totally worth it. I think everybody that does orthodontics should do it, otherwise they're going to do the Invisalign three times when they're older. Which you hear all your friends are like, I'm doing Invisalign again, and it's because their tongue posture wasn't there. Wait, that's me. I had braces as a kid and then I had to go back and get Invisalign again, and then now I'm feeling like, I just feel like I'm constantly chasing my teeth that are moving. I try to wear my retainer almost every night and I wear a mouth guard,

but yeah, it's like my teeth just don't want to stay. Yeah, that's why. If we had really good tongue posture, the tongue and the lips play this little game where they hold the teeth in the right spot. Wow. So we're missing the boat that we're, we can do expansion and line up the teeth with braces, but if we don't do multifunctional therapy and they're still mouth breathing,

everything's going to fall apart. Yeah. So what is the solution to that? Is that just everything we've been talking about is like, move my palate out, nose breathing is another one. So I've started mouth taping every night, which actually it is wild how much of a difference that's helped me, how much of a difference it's made. So that is like a workaround from having good tongue posture because it forces you to keep your lips closed, how much of a difference it's made. So that is like a workaround from having good tongue posture because it forces you to keep your lips closed.

And then your tongue can stay up in the roof of your mouth and out of your airway so you're breathing through your nose all night and that tube stays nice and open. So some people that can't mouth tape, it's not safe. If you're overweight, then actually the weight can prevent you from taking nice deep breaths. So I don't like to recommend it to everyone, but I feel like it's a really good tool to find out, can you breathe through your nose all night or do you need to rip the tape off in the middle of the night? And if you can, then we change our treatment plan a little bit. Yeah. Well, I was going to say what's interesting is I told you this before we were recording that I've had some nights, I've woken up actually this morning, I woke up with it fully on my mouth,

but I've woken up mornings where like I had it wrapped around my fingers one time, which is so weird. I was like, how did that even happen? And then I've had other times where I vaguely remember just going, like ripping it off and throwing it. Yeah. And yeah. So that tells me that you should do Vivos.

Because you'll get like, that'll change for you. Okay. Well, you know what else helped? I did a, I've been doing these nasal strips. Poor Hector. I mean, I'm basically going to bed now with like, like I've like face tape on to like keep the boat or the, so I don't have to do the Botox and like help with the wrinkles.

And then now I have a nose strip and now I'm taping my mouth. And I basically just go to bed every night and be like, Oh is happening? I can totally relate. I'm the same. I'm like, sorry. Next thing you know, we're going to have that silk bed hair mask on and like look really like an old lady. But just insanity. The nasal dilators are awesome. So if you pull your cheeks away from your nose like that, and you can breathe better, that's a sign that you can benefit from a nasal dilators are awesome. And it's kind of like not a cure, it's sort of like a hack, but I've seen people's sleep studies go from mild sleep apnea to nothing

once we just get their nose open and tape their mouth. So let's talk about, because I'm sure there's a lot of mamas listening right now, or moms-to-be, and I'm also hoping to do that as well. How can we prevent this and how can we help our kiddos have well-formed jaws from the get-go? So one of the big things to think about when you're thinking about getting pregnant is folic acid versus folate supplementation. We have this theory that folic acid, because it's synthetic, and we take folate to close the midline, but folic acid because it's synthetic.

over-close due to folic acid, which is a theory that's out and kind of well received right now, then you can get a tight fascia under the tongue and it's called a tongue tie. And then the tongue can't do its job because it can't get up on the roof of the mouth. So tongue ties create a lot of trouble nursing and then with facial and jaw development. So important to note, folic acid is in a ton of processed foods. I'm starting to think folic acid is kind of a poison to us. I think so too. They're finding that it's like in the brain. And they're spraying it on grains.

It's basically in every processed food. It's our ultra processed food. It's a synthetic form of folate that we're adding to the food supply because they were concerned about like a lack of folate for the birth deficiencies and all that. But birth defects. I think it's causing a lot of problems. And then looking at the tongue when the baby's born is really important. This can be really hard because there's so few people.

I feel like it's a lost art understanding tongue ties. important. This can be really hard because there's so few people. I feel like it's a lost art, understanding tongue ties. A lot of hospitals won't even allow you to utter the word tongue tie. It's so weird. I know, I don't understand that. I I'm like, they totally have a tongue tie. No wonder you're having trouble nursing. And so sad, because it's so hard when you first become a mom to learn how to breastfeed and deal with all of that.

And then baby can't drink milk and you're worried about their safety and them thriving. And then, so, back in the day, midwives used to keep one fingernail long so they could just cut it right at birth. But that is like completely lost art. That's kind of cool. That's cool. Yeah.

It's crazy that they could get through that with a nail too. I know. I'm like, that must have been a tight nail. But I'm glad I don't have to do those. That would be really hard for me to just grab a baby. But I mean, so after they get that released, then the exercise of nursing helps to stretch and they heal nicely.

So that's one really important thing to look at. And then I always like to encourage moms to close the baby's lips. So I hear they do this in France. I don't know if that's true, but just close their lips and encourage them to breathe through their nose. And you can kind of check, is the tongue, is it suctioned to the roof of the mouth? If it is, then you've created a nice seal and they're going to stay closed.

So it should be at the top. It should be like suction to the palate. And if it is, then it's going to help them grow nicely. And then airway dentists like to recommend breastfeeding three and a half years, which is a really long time. And if once you start to introduce food, you have to be careful because then they become more at risk for cavities. But that's a big deal, nursing and then chewing hard foods, really important because we've gotten to this point where we think everything has to be pureed for babies. And that's not the way ancient humans fed their babies. Well, back then they didn't have blenders.

They didn't really have any way to puree them. Yeah, they can gnaw on a piece of steak. They won't get a bite too big because they don't have enough teeth. And so letting them really chew on something is important for jaw development. And then I like a Western-priced diet like organ meats and raw milk important for jaw development. And then I like a Western Price diet, like organ meats and raw milk and real foods to help, because we know that you're going to grow more symmetrical,

more beautiful face, which means you have a beautiful airway, which means you're going to breathe better, you're going to live longer if you eat real foods. Yeah, I saw that. and forgotten. It's like we turned into this industrial kind of system where we do braces, we pull wisdom teeth, we do fillings and we forgot all of that knowledge. Yeah. Is there a world in which if you're really good about your kid's diet and you're aware of, if they're mouth breathing versus nose breathing, that you could completely avoid getting braces

or any sort of intervention for them? Yeah. Like those two girls, they won't need braces. That is so cool. Yeah, and a lot of the kids, if we intervene early, like my toothpill kids, at age three, we don't need to do braces, we make enough room, we get the teeth nice and lined up, the toothpill helps correct any bite issues. What's a toothpill?

Toothpill is a little mouth guard that's a habit training device for nasal breathing, but it also gets the tongue on the roof of the mouth where it can do its job as the architect of the face, and it helps with gentle expansion. So if we use it on an older kid, it's more of a habit trainer. On a littler kid, we can actually develop the jaws with it. And how early can you start that? Age three. Wow.

So if you do a tooth pillow and a malfunctional therapy, there's a very good chance you won that? Age three. Wow. So if you do tooth pillow and a malfunctional therapy, there's a very good chance you won't need your wisdom teeth out and you won't need to do orthodontics. This is so cool. Yeah. I wish my parents knew this. I know, me too.

Would have saved me so many years of painful braces. Oh, I had braces for three years and it was awful. Every time they'd go in and like tighten the bands. Oh, God. braces for three years and it was awful. It's too small of a mouth, which is really common. Well, it's because our parents' generation didn't know what we're talking about in this whole episode. They didn't know. They did their best. Okay, this is so fascinating. I'm trying to think, oh, you brought me another little, is that the tooth pillow that you brought me? No, I brought you a Maya Chew.

So that is like a chew toy for babies. I would say that's for under three. It has little bristles on it so it helps clean their teeth. You had some time, but I figured there's going to be a baby someday that needs that jaw development. Well, and now, like, for Hector, there's so many things that I just feel like I'm going to be like, okay, we have to worry about their jaw formation and they're getting their healthy foods. And like, there's just so many things, but like, not in a bad way. There's just a lot that we have to like pay attention to, to like... You have to walk this line.

So I have three kids and I can kind of obsess over things. And one of my kids kind of likes to, like, he's a little OCD and he's like, but that has food to hide. So you have to like, you know, try and walk this balance line of being like, I'm going to teach you everything. And it's really fun actually because now they know everything. Like my daughter could be an airway dentist, I swear. She's like, Mom, look at that, like that,

but she notices all the details. That's cool. But you have to also give them room to live in this toxic world and not be afraid of everything. Exactly, for sure. I mean, that's how I live my life. I think my audience, well, if they listen to my podcast, they know that I'm super balanced.

I think if people just find me on Instagram, they think I'm a psycho and I live in a bubble. Yeah, you don't come off like a psycho to me at all. Okay, good, thank you. But I have, I've had some people be like, wow, you seem really fun. And I'm like, you know nothing about my life. I actually have a very, very balanced approach to everything.

I just like, you know, it's like when you know better, you do better and you try your best. And then obviously like, we're not going to be able to control everything. We can't live in a bubble. I know, I think people just get triggered because maybe they feel shame or they don't know where to start or I don't know. Which is so sad to me.

I wish like there's such a beauty in just having a curious open mind and being like, oh wow, this is so cool. I didn't know this. I'd love to learn more instead of, yeah, I think what's happening is I think a lot of people feel guilt and then instead of just allowing themselves to feel that guilt and like give them compassion and kindness that they didn't know better at the time, then they lash out at the messenger and say that that person's a bad person for pointing it out. Yeah, that mom guilt can be really painful.

I've had a mom come in and she's like, my daughter had to drop out of school. She can't, she has to take a nap every afternoon and she can't do her sports anymore and her energy is really low and her sleep is bad and we sleep tested her and I'm like, yeah, she's got apnea and they had just finished orthodontics and I was like, well, we have to redo it and she was like, you just want my money and she got all mad. I was like, I don't know what to tell you.

I know you just spent all this money. I know it's really painful. I know that this kid is suffering, but we have to start with just acknowledging that you did your best and you went to who you thought was the best orthodontist in town. It's not your fault. Or the cavities thing, because mouth breathers get a lot of cavities typically, and these moms are like, I have fed them a perfect diet. This kid has never had sugar. All they've ever had is breast milk and food, and they're full of cavities. And I'm like, yeah, but they're mouth breathing at night, so their mouths drying out and the bacteria are going to town. And so that creates a lot of shame and guilt. And I just think we all have to let it go.

My kids get cavities. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, yeah, you can't do everything perfect, right? And kiddos are going to get cavities no matter how perfect you are, I feel like sometimes, because that's just how life works. Yeah. But let's talk about that, actually. That was something I was going to ask you. So if you're breathing through your nose properly,

then the chances of you getting cavities, obviously you're brushing your teeth too and like not eating things like goldfish all the time and letting it like stick in your teeth. There's a lower, that one always blows people's minds. They're like, wait, goldfish? Yeah, they're so nasty. You can feel it gets stuck in there. Yes.

Right, and it's just carbs, like simple carbs. Exactly, it turns into sugar and then it just sits on your teeth. It's super hard to get out of your teeth. Of course it's going to cause cavities. It becomes an acid in your mouth. Exactly. It turns into sugar and then it just sits on your teeth. It's super hard to get out of your teeth. Of course, it's going to cause cavities. It becomes an acid in your mouth. Yeah. So what is the... So if a kiddo is breathing through their nose properly, then the chances of them getting cavities is going to go lower too, right? Yeah, because then they have saliva neutralizing their mouth all day.

So when we mouth breathe, our mouths dry out a lot. So that's the other reason why brushing before bed is like the most important time to brush, all day. than we are at a much higher risk for decay. Wow. I've never heard that about the saliva. That's really interesting. So let's say that a parent is doing everything they can. They're feeding them really well. They're checking in on their tongue and their teeth development, everything, and they're still feeling like the kiddo is like maybe mouth breathing some.

Can you face or can you mouth tape kids at night? Yeah, you can. or can you mouth tape kids at night? Yeah, you can. There have been some adults that died from mouth taping that there was a lawsuit from, and I think you can't buy mouth tape on Amazon anymore because of it. So all of us have sort of tried to dialold puts mouth tape on over his tooth pillow just to help him keep his lips closed. So it's just a personal choice, I would say.

If you have an otherwise healthy kid that's not overweight, they can breathe through their nose. If they're struggling to breathe the nose. We got to do palatal expanders or tooth pillow or something to help open the nose. Wow, that's so interesting. Because I kind of have this fear. I've read online, oh, we'll just encourage your kid to mouth tape when they're younger. And I have this fear about that. Because for me, I'm like, OK, I'm an adult.

I know if I'm not exactly. And I know if I'm not breathing correctly through my nose. I got really sick a couple of months ago and had all this sinus stuff for like a month and I was not doing it then, because I could barely breathe. Yeah, you can't. Yeah.

So it's like with a kid, you know, like you don't want to force those things if they can't effectively communicate to you. Yeah, and they'd wake up and pull it off too, most likely, but you know, I would say a tooth pillow is safer. They're going to spit that out. Tooth pillow forces them to breathe through their nose. They're going to spit that out.

Tooth pillow forces them to breathe through their nose. They can kind of cheat around it if they open their mouth enough. But it's a way safer way to ensure they're getting a nasal breathing habit. And it also is pushing the tongue up. It's kind of like three for one. It's better than mouth tape, in my opinion. What are some of the signs and symptoms that your kids airway pathways are not forming correctly? So dark circles under the eyes is a big one. When we mouth breathe, we get this vasodilation.

If you look at their profile and their maxillin, their mandible aren't out in front of their forehead, then they don't have enough forward growth typically. So if their chin is short, you know, the jawline. If they are wetting the bed late, if they're grinding their teeth, if their baby teeth are touching at all, we need two to three millimeters of spacing in between all baby teeth to have enough room, and almost no kid has that. Like I spent a couple hours on the internet the other day looking for a photo of a kid with teeth that had it, and I couldn't even find that. And a lot of baby teeth are touching, they look perfect,

but that means there's no room in the permanent teeth, they're going to be really crowded. So that's a big one. If their palate is vaulted and high instead of flat and wide, which is almost every kid you see, if they're mouth breathing at all, if you can hear them breathing in their sleep, if they're not silently breathing through their nose at night, then you have a problem. Okay. What else? There's like a hyperactivity type behavior.

That's why Adderall works, because these kids are like overtired. You give them a stimulant, they're going to get through their day. So if you're seeing ADHD type symptoms, definitely get them sleep tested before you start medications. If they have trouble, like if they're picky eaters, type symptoms, definitely getting them sleep tested Interesting. and I'm one of their docs. But there's different brands of those guides that you can use. You don't have to use that brand.

We can get a kid in a toothpick at age three, and then at age four, if their sleep is really affected, I can put fixed expanders in. So I have this cute little four-year-old who sucked her thumb, her teeth were like, you know, grown around her thumb. She was like super tucked in and narrow from it. Her sleep was terrible. And we put a fixed expander in and it started to widen her, and her nasal breathing was like instantly better, her sleep starting any better.

Actually, my six-year-old, I did that. And because he's like the one patient that I sleep with all the time, so I get to see him intimately how this changes, he went from like wetting the bed late, he'd kick us all night, and I just thought like, oh, kids are restless sleepers. He stopped kicking us. He stopped making any noise. Like, his breathing got silent.

And he wasn't really a bad sleeper. Like, I thought he was pretty good. He had spacing in between his baby teeth, his breathing got silent. that we just had to get his nose working. Wow. Is there, you had said something earlier about the deviated septum also is a symptom of not everything growing in place. So do you think that we'll also see deviated septums going down too as we address all this other stuff? Yeah, for sure.

Wow, this is so fascinating. Yeah, it's so interesting to see how all these little things are playing out. There was a study in Brazil that looked at tongue ties, and they found that at age 70, people with a severe tongue tie had severe health issues. People with a moderate tongue tie had moderate health proper jaw development and ear redevelopment. So I think someday we're going to realize that mouth breathing is the first sign of heart attacks, heart disease, strokes, Parkinson's, dementia.

All of that, if you're not getting good sleep, then you're going to see all these downstream health effects. Yeah, absolutely. Wow, this is so fascinating. This is one of those episodes where I'm just thinking, I hope this reaches so many people because this is so important and it's something that people are really not talking about. Like we are a little bit, and it's interesting how it's coming into the conversation with, you know, everybody's mouth taping now,

but nobody knows really what's happening downstream. Yeah, the conversation has started, which I love, and I'm so glad that you had me on so that we can spread the word. is really what's happening downstream. Yeah, the conversation has started, which I love. And I'm so glad that you had me on so that we can spread the word. But people are not connecting the dots fully yet. Yeah, so hopefully this a lot of the content. I just want to encourage people, it's never too late. I mean, I helped 70-year-olds rebuild their airways.

You don't have to be stuck on a CPAP, go get sleep tested. We need to be doing better for people so that their faces develop beautifully like they were meant to, and that they can sleep and breathe better at night. You cannot have good health if we don't address this. Find a good ear read dentist, get a sleep study done, and make sure you're getting to the root cause of potential issues that might be affecting your health overall. And don't underestimate how much of a difference this can actually make in your life. I mean, just me doing the mouth taping and the opening of my nasal passageway, my sleep scores have been going through the roof with my aura ring. And I have to be honest, when I first started learning about this stuff,

I was thinking, okay, I don't know if that's going to help me that much. And I'm someone who, like, I actually struggle a lot with sleep. And I am blown away by how much of a difference it's made for me. Yeah, it's a game changer. I've seen patients go from grumpy, miserable, or depressed and anxious, they can't even barely hold a conversation to completely different human once we get them sleeping. Wow.

Yeah, Riley and I are always like, oh my God, we're doing it. You can see major transformations in weeks. That is so cool. I have one more question for you, because you brought up the sleep apnea, and I was curious about this. If somebody is dealing with pretty severe sleep apnea, if they started dressing this stuff with their jaw,

do you think it will help lessen the sleep apnea? Yeah, I've seen people who have an AHAI, which means they stop breathing for 10 seconds or more, of like 120, 120 times an hour they stop breathing. And get them down to like 20 with vivos. Or I've seen somebody with 90 get them down to zero. We just have to like, sleep apnea is fundamentally a jaw disease.

Like if the jaws are well positioned and wide enough in the face and the tongue is nice and strong, you will not have apnea. Unless it's like a central, very rare neurological where they don't try to breathe for some reason in their sleep. But I mean, like 99.99% of sleep apnea is a jaw development issue. And so we can change that. And people are getting cured all the time. They just have to be willing to basically find the right doctor and start down the path.

A lot of people don't want to know that they have sleep apnea because they're afraid they're going to be on a CPAP. Which I get. I mean, to be honest, that was my fear too. And my doctor wanted me to test for that. I was like, wait, what do you mean? There's no way. No. I don't have sleep apnea, what do you mean? I don't want to get on a machine.

And then people like you or people like my Ironman athletes, they're like, that's not, I couldn't have it. It's not a fat old man's disease. It could be even more of an elite athlete clarity on what can people search for specifically. They should be having sleep tests in their office. with the doctors around them in case they need some to refer to an ENT or something. And they should have a lot of experience because, like I said, this is a new emerging field that we weren't taught anything about in dentistry. So just be careful, because I've seen people Zoom with me all the time and they're doing Airway

You just have to be careful and do your homework and kind of trust your gut. You can usually tell when you go visit someone. If they're taking a CT scan and they're looking at the airway and they know what numbers to look for, then that's a really good time. Okay, good. Okay, amazing. ealpeakedental.com. app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio and if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to WellnessLoud.com. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to

your doctor or your health team first. If you struggle with bloating, gas, constipation, digestive issues, yeast overgrowth, well, you may already know about Digest This. It's the podcast hosted by me, Bethany Cameron, also known as LittleSipper on Instagram. I dive into gut health, nutrition, the food industry, and drawing from my own experience. I break down what's good, what's bad, and what's the best for your gut, your skin, and so much more. I even offer gut-friendly recipes. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday produced by Wellness Loud.