Realfoodology - Into the Multiverse of Psilocybin with Alli Schaper

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

91: Psilocybin is very near and dear to my heart after it helped me move through the intense grief I was holding onto after the sudden, tragic death of my sister. Consider this your 101 on all things psilocybin and the studies to back it up.  I talk to Alli Schaper, Co-Founder of Super Mush functional mushroom sprays and the creator of the Multiverse. If you are interested in learning more about psilocybin, I highly recommend reading How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. Check Out Alli: Alli's Instagram: @allischaper Allli's Podcast Super Mush Multiverse Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening: EP 43: The Power of Mushrooms EP 31: Psychedelic Therapy

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. So with psilocybin, which is magic mushrooms, what's happening in your brain is your gut is actually converting it to another chemical, a silicin. Your brain is forming new neural pathways that have not been used before. And when implemented and integrated in the right way, you can actually keep those pathways active. and also the multiverse. And I'm going to let her explain everything. She talks all about it in the episode. I do want to say that I am a huge fan of her super mush products. They are functional adaptogenic mushroom sprays. And a lot of my experience with mushrooms in the past, and I'm talking about, well, I guess on all spectrums of mushrooms is they don't really

taste that great. And she has created this spray that tastes really good. They're very lightly sweetened. You know how I feel about sugar and there's not a ton in here. They're just sweetened with monk fruit and a little bit of honey. And they actually taste good. And they're great because you can take them on the go. There's three different ones for energy, anxiety, stress, the chill one. And then the other one is for immunity. Now, what I'm very excited about this conversation is that we dive into the science of psilocybin. If you're living under a rock and you have no idea what psilocybin is, that is the

component that is in what we call magic mushrooms. There's a ton of science coming out right now and how psilocybin is helping people overcome all sorts of different disorders like anxiety, depression, PTSD. People are doing psychotherapy assistance now with therapists. And the science of this is really just beginning and it's starting to explode. It's really cool. If you guys are familiar with the work of Michael Pollan, I highly recommend his book. It's called How to Change Your Mind, and he really dives into a lot of what she and I talk about today. But I really wanted this to be just kind of like a 101 on psilocybin.

It's really important to me personally. I talked a lot about this on a previous episode. If you want to go back and listen to it, it's number 31 and it's called psychedelic therapy. And I talk about my experience that I had with a really big mushroom dosage and the healing that I found around the grief of the tragic death of my sister. And I bring it up a little bit in this episode, but if you want to hear more about it, I would highly recommend going back and referencing episode 31 because I dive more into detail about it in that one. But it really helped me move through a lot of the grief and emotions that I had post the traumatic death of my sister. So this is really near and dear to

my heart. And then more recently, I have been thinking about this and talking about it a lot with friends. And a lot of my friends do this in my social circle, uh, about microdosing psilocybin. I actually just started a protocol literally yesterday. If you are unaware of what microdosing is, we go into that as well into the episode. And I do want to preface this and say, uh, we are not telling you to do these drugs. You should always talk to your doctor. And this is more just informational for people who are curious about psilocybin and all the science that's coming out right now. We dive into also as well, the stigma that's around psilocybin use, you know, magical mushrooms, there's a lot of stigma around it. And we are trying to release that stigma because, um, she and I are both in agreement

of this, that we believe that it's, um, it's just not correct. Like we, we can be using psilocybin in such amazing ways, such therapeutic ways. And it's really been helping a lot of people, especially, uh, when it comes to mental disorders, like I mentioned, and I feel very passionately about this, having, uh having had a, an experience that's really near and dear to my heart. So anyways, I don't want to speak any more on this because I want you guys to hear Allie and everything that she has to say. So I really hope that you guys enjoy the episode. As always, if you were listening and enjoying the podcast, if you could rate and review it, it would mean so much to me. It really helps this podcast. Thank you so

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Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. Before we dive into all of this, I want everyone to have a little bit of a background on you and what you do. So can you kind of talk about what you do? Yeah. So it's a few different things. Everything kind of ties back to mushrooms and mental health. And actually, when people say, what is your company? We describe it as a mental wellness company that happens to make mushroom products. So I'll break it down. There's a few different kinds of parts of, of the business, but the company is called into the multiverse. I'm actually sitting in front of our, of our podcast set right now. We have this mushroom moss wall. Um, that is the backdrop of our podcast set, but

we have first, you know, the, the first thing I guess that we launched was the multiverse, which is our mushroom specific marketplace. So like the easiest way to think about it is a thrive market for mushroom products. We curate and vet the best functional mushroom products, everything from protein powders to supplements, to tinctures, to capsules capsules to gummies and collect them all in one place so that people can shop for the highest quality mushrooms. And that's called the Multiverse. And then we also have our own in-house brand called Super Mush, which is this really funky 60s and 70s inspired brand. We make two things.

Mushroom, functional mushroom supplements right now in the form of mouth sprays, mushroom superfood sprays. We have three, energy, immunity, and chill. And then we also have this full line of mushroom streetwear, which is really fun. And we'll continue to make more products. We have a few more launching in a few months. And then thirdly, we have this kind of education and events arm of the company, which is under our Into the Multiverse brand. So we actually have

three separate Instagram accounts for everything that we're doing. And this is focused on mushroom everything. So functional mushrooms and psilocybin. And so we create content around what's happening in the fungi space we have a podcast called into the multiverse where we bring thought leaders and experts together to talk about you know their experience with mushrooms both functional and psilocybin because they're equally as powerful in different ways and then we also have a dinner series around the future of psychedelic wellness same concept bringing together thought leaders and experts to figure out how to move the space forward with integrity. And the last piece of this is a recent passion of mine and my co-founders in the last really like, you know, six months or so

has been legalization. And I'm really passionate about legalization and really what the future of psilocybin consumer products look like. It is still a schedule one substance, which means it's fully illegal for recreational supplemental use. There are clinical trials going on, which we can dive into all the legalization stuff later, but it's still very much illegal, yet it's helping so many people. And my mental health, hundreds of people around me

has been radically changed by psilocybin, both in macrodoses and in microdoses. And so we have a nonprofit called the Microdosing Collective that we formed in collaboration with other experts in the microdosing space to figure out what is the future of public policy in that way. That's amazing. And I think it's so wild that it's still illegal in most places, because you think about how alcohol is legal and the detrimental effects that alcohol has on our body from a health standpoint. And the fact that that is legal and anyone can just, you know, above 21 can go and just buy alcohol. But psilocybin, a mushroom, is still considered like a narcotic. Do they consider it a narcotic or what is it classified as? Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a schedule one

drug and it's, it's, it's in the same category as heroin and opioids and, um, you know, cannabis is still schedule one, even though it just, it's, you know, I just saw some the other day, it is getting rescheduled, which is really exciting. But, you know, the definition, I might botch the exact definition, but if it's considered a Schedule I drugs, it means it has found to have no therapeutic benefit. But it is, you know, at the same time psilocybin was granted breakthrough therapy designation by the FDA, which is really exciting. So that means that it's able to, you know, be used in these clinical trials, um, at an expedited rate. And, you know, there's, I mean, I wrote down the number of, of trials that are happening right now.

I don't know if this is the latest up to date, cause there's more that are happening every day, but right now there's 65 clinical trials going on with, with all psychedelics. And that's, you know, I love everything from LSD to psilocybin, but it's everything that they're studying. Yeah, well, and ketamine, I would say there's less trials around because ketamine is legal. You know, there's hundreds of ketamine clinics across the United States. People may be familiar with Fieldtrip or Numinous, companies like that. And more of the clinical trials, there's actually a really great website if people want to look up what clinical trials are underway and for what. It's called Psilocybin

Alpha. But I mean, they're studying everything from PTSD to cluster headaches to social anxiety, ADHD, fibromyalgia, eating disorders, opioid use, alcoholism. So, you know, it's funny you bring up alcoholism and how alcohol is a fully legal drug. A lot of these trials with psilocybin and other psychedelics are focusing on psilocybin-assisted therapy to help people who have alcoholism. Wow. That's really crazy. So you kind of touched on this a little bit, but part of what I want to do with this podcast is to help people understand why we're suddenly seeing this explosion of people talking about mushrooms and excited about them. And then there's also still this misconception happening at the

same time. It's illegal, so it must be a bad substance. And I think there's kind of a lot of confusion that needs to be remedied in all of this. So what exactly, so what are they doing these studies on right now? So like what do mushrooms specifically help with that they're seeing in these studies and that people are really excited about? Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, context setting for people that may be like new to mushrooms overall, obviously, if they're listening to your podcast, they probably are familiar with some functional mushrooms, but you'd actually be surprised how many people still don't fully understand the difference. And even, you know, with our product line that we launched, people will be like, is this, is this psilocybin? You know, what is the difference. And even, you know, with our product line that we launched, people will be like, is this psilocybin? You know, what is the difference between chaga and

psilocybin and reishi and turkey tail? So like, just like a quick breakdown of like the designation, like fungi is, you know, as a kingdom of its own. We actually share, humans share more genetic composition with mushrooms than we do to plants, which is wild. So our DNA is very closely related. And in this kingdom of mushrooms, people are familiar with culinary mushrooms, which you'll find at the grocery store, shiitake, other button mushrooms, things like that. There's functional mushrooms, which are mushrooms that outside of being edible, they have medicinal specific benefits for your body.

And there's like a whole, that's a whole rabbit hole that we can go down as well. And then there's psilocybin mushrooms, which is the psychoactive part of what people most commonly think of as magic mushrooms. And those are what's being, those are what is being studied in all of these clinical trials all throughout, you know, the world now at this point. And the reason, you know, you asked the reason like why we are having this attention on mushrooms, it's actually more of a remembering than it is like this new thing. You know, mushrooms have been used for thousands of years, both functional and psychedelics.

And if you look at the most vital parts of human evolution, there was this period of like, you know, the most vital parts of human development, 20,000 years of evolution, humans were consuming mushrooms, functional mushrooms for sure. And then depending on what theories you subscribe to, there's a lot of talk around this, the stone day theory. Um, but the more you look into the evidence behind it, there is this period of human development where our brains grew an unexplainable amount. And what psilocybin does to your brain, which we can go, go into in a second is, um, it forms new neural pathways in your brain. It creates, um, new, new connectivity. It actually, you know,

enhances your ability to learn. There's all of these beautiful things that psilocybin can do when it is in your brain. And so humans have evolved eating mushrooms. And so what's happening right now in the world is actually more of our Eastern, or sorry, our Western world remembering what's going on in Eastern culture. Like mushrooms, functional mushrooms have been used in Chinese medicine for thousands and thousands of years. Indigenous tribes have used psilocybin mushrooms in ceremonies for thousands and thousands of years, but they feel new. Like a lot of people, I mean, this isn't that common in the circles we reside in, but a lot of people think that psychedelics and mushrooms were like invented in the sixties. You know what I mean? Cause that's,

that's when they were, that's when they had the most attention in America. So anyway, it's more of just like a really actually remembering the root of a lot of these things. Yeah. It's funny you say that too. Cause you know, and a lot of, um, I can speak from my own experience. I was really scared of mushrooms for a long time. Like I didn't take my first dose until I was like 33 or 34. And I didn't even do it on purpose. I was out with friends and someone just goes, open your mouth. And I was like, what did I just eat?

And they were like, oh, I just gave you mushroom chocolate. I was like, oh my God, here I go. And I, cause I just had been so scared. But looking back, I'm so grateful that my friend did that for me because it ended up being one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had. Cause it was such a small dose that I just was happy. I felt so elated and happy and connected with my friends. And that's really what started my whole journey of exploration with mushrooms. And this is also why I feel so passionate about talking about this with people

and trying to normalize and trying to ease people into this because I was one of those people that was so scared of it. You know, I grew up with DARE, the DARE program in school, and they scared the shit out of all of us from doing any sort of drug. And I just, you know, looking back on that now, knowing what I know, I'm like, that was so horrible to do to us because it created such an anxiety-ridden relationship with any sort of drug. And, you know, it's really what kept me from doing mushrooms for so long. So what are they doing exactly to your brain? You brought up this, like, changing the brain pathways and neuroplasticity. What does that mean for people that don't understand?

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visual cortex. So that's, what's creating all these distorted visuals. If you've ever, um, experienced those and your brain is also, um, lowering the activity in your default mode network. So that's why when people experience this ego dissolution or, or ego death, that's, that's what's happening. So you're actually able to, um, have a different perspective on things because you're, it's, it's kind of like the brief removal from the matrix. There's a bunch of different ways to describe it. And, um, you know, you experience the common things are exactly what you just described feelings feeling of oneness with people around you feeling of connectivity there's there's so many takeaways that people have but on like a more scientific and logistical level your brain is is is forming new neural pathways

that have not been used before and when implemented and integrated in the right way, you can actually keep those pathways active. That's so cool. I heard him once describe this on a podcast. It was like imagine your brain is kind of like a snowy hill and you go down this same path. You ride like a sled down. And every time you're sledding down, your sled goes down this same path that's already been created, this groove that's there. And then imagine, you know, psilocybin comes in, it's like a new fresh powder, a new snow. And then you go down this hill again with the sled, and you're just creating these whole new pathways down in the snow that you had never even known

were there and were possible, but you needed that snowfall to come in and create those new pathways. Yeah, no, it's, it's amazing. And, you know, when you look at people that have, you know, been alive for 60 years, your habit loops are so ingrained. I mean, even, even us, our habit loops are very ingrained. Like we're very, um, we're creatures of habit. We're just walking habits. And so the ability to put your brain in a slightly neuroplastic state and increase open-mindedness to new things, it's remarkable. And I think something important that I'm really passionate about, and part of the reason why we formed this nonprofit that I was mentioning, the Microdosing Collective, is psilocybin is proving to be beneficial for both clinical, which is, you know, anxiety, depression, all of those disorders that I, that I listed out that all these clinical trials are underway

studying and also non-clinical outcomes, which has enhanced creativity, connection, flow, athletic performance, like more of these like softer things that you can't really, um, they're not as easy to study. Right? And that's not the focus area of a lot of these clinical trials, which is interesting because that's what, you know, you see all the public policy right now is being formed around these macro doses, these heroic doses, which is, you know, three to five, you know, sometimes higher grams of of psilocybin at these guided facilitated service centers. But then, you know, sometimes higher grams of psilocybin at these guided facilitated service centers.

But then, you know, what we're describing is microdosing, which is a sub perceptual amount of psilocybin and taking it not necessarily for a clinical outcome like anxiety, depression, but more of this human optimization side of things. And so what I'm really passionate about is speaking about both because it's equally as powerful. And I think that it's unfortunate that there's not a lot of conversations

around microdosing and not as many studies around microdosing. Like there aren't, you know? So a lot of this, a lot of why it's spread so rapidly is it's anecdotal, and it's word of mouth. And I'm excited to see, as the space continues to develop, and more people are coming out of the psychedelic closet, so to speak, and sharing their story and

their and their use of these substances, how it will then inform, you know, studies and policy. So you kind of touched on this, and I want to dive a little bit more into it for again, I'm trying to think of if people are really new to this space. Because I know in LA and my social circles, everyone I know has either done microdose or is microdosing right now or is thinking about it. But for someone that's really new to this, what is kind of like a microdosing protocol and why would someone be drawn to even doing that? And can you work while you're doing it? What are some of the things that people need to know about microdosing versus macrodosing? Yeah. So, I mean, there's, there's a few different things. So, you know, we, we, we kind of defined it

microdosing is a sub perceptual amount of, of psilocybin or, or another psychedelic for that matter. People don't just microdose psilocybin mushrooms. They also microdose, you know, LSD, and there's this, you can microdose anything. It's just, it's a, it's a smaller dose of what would be considered a macrodose. And the protocol that is most commonly followed when you can read about this on the internet, there's a few great companies. I love third wave. And Paul from, from third wave, Paul Austin is also a board member and partner on this, on the microdosing collective. Yeah. So that's a great resource for people to check out third wave. Um, there's also really great information on

double blind, which is a psychedelic magazine and they do incredible work. And so they have a lot of, um, details on programs you can follow with, with microdosing, how to do it safely, how to make sure that you're dosing it correctly. And the typical protocol is several times a week. There's debate amongst which one is the best. My opinion is it doesn't matter too, too much, but several times a week, two days on, one day off or every other day. And the most important thing I think to note is you're not supposed to feel it. And a lot of times when people are taking microdosing products, there's, you know, obviously black market underground brands that are shipping all across the country.

And some brands are even on Shopify. It's crazy what's happening in this space right now. Yeah, that's wild. And just make sure you're getting it from a really, you know, trusted source and keep in mind that it's still a schedule and substance and it's fully really, you know, trusted source and keep in mind that it's still a schedule and substance and it's fully illegal, you know? And so there's this kind of balance where everyone thinks it's in a gray area. And I think it's important to come out and like, and, and talk about it. Um, but I'm, I'm really passionate about finding a way to get it legalized so that people

can have safe and vetted access to these things through trusted source and not through a guy who knows a guy on Signal because that's where most of the mushrooms are coming from right now. So I would say those two resources, though, in summary, kind of a long-winded answer, double-blind and third wave, incredible. And that's a really good place to start. Start with research. Start with learning about what it does to your brain to figure out if it's right for you. That's that applies to all psychedelics. Cool. And what, so this is kind of a double question, who would mushrooms be best for? And is there anyone that really shouldn't take mushrooms? Like, is there someone that just should avoid them? Yeah. So, I mean, functional mushrooms, I think are great for anyone. And,

and one of the things I also wanted to note is if, you know, in a lot of these microdosing stacks, you'll often find, you know, psilocybin combined with lion's mane and cordyceps and other functional mushrooms. And a lot of people, when they like feel this, you know, boost of energy or this jolt or like this aliveness in your brain, you're oftentimes feeling the lion's mane. And so I do, you know, I do want to emphasize, I know most of our conversation is, is, is centered around psilocybin, but these are from the same kingdom and functional mushrooms are equally as powerful and can heal your body and your brain, um, in, in such profound ways. And then, you know, when used in combination, it's a whole other level, but, um, that's just something important to note. And so if you want,

if you want like a microdosing starter kit, I would say start taking, start taking lion's mane, you know, which increases neuroactivity in your brain. It creates, it lights your brain up. You'll feel it. You will feel this increased sense of focus. And it's, it's remarkable what they've, what they've shown with functional washrooms, even though there's still so many more studies that need to happen with them. And then as far as who they would not be for, it's like this careful dance because, you know, the clinical trials right now are focused on people with mental disorders or mental health issues. But if you don't have enough of, you know, enough stability in your psyche to have it shaken up with psilocybin, because that's what it does, you know, enough stability in your psyche to have it shaken up with psilocybin, because that's what it does. You know, you go and people report feeling like they're losing

their minds. Like that is kind of the point for short periods of time. But that feeling of being out of control is not for everyone. And it's a beautiful experience. And I think that's why it's really important that it's combined with therapy. And so I would say it's kind of an ask your doctor situation and make sure that if you do decide to go and, you know, experience, you know, psilocybin assisted therapy, whether it's in the country in a clinical trial or out of the country at a retreat that just make sure, you know, you know, you build a relationship first. I have a friend that's a ketamine assisted therapist, and she just really emphasizes, you know, the trust that's built with a therapist beforehand, before going into one of these experiences and how that's vital, um, to, to the experience because they're experiential substances. Like when you go and take a, a macrodose of psilocybin, this mystical experience that you have is have is the profound

nature of the substance. It's not just, yes, it's increasing all this activity in your brain, but it's what you experience under the substance that creates this remarkable change. And the last thing to note on this long-winded answer is that the integration is key. You hear people talk about this all the time. But, you know, without integrating it properly, you just had an amazing experience. And that's a lot of times what people experience with recreational use where, like, you know, they party with them, but there's no integration of that. So how does someone integrate it afterwards? which is why, you know, I'm obviously very passionate about consumer products and what that's going to look like in the future. But integration, there's a million different things that you can do. I think having a group of people to support you through the integration process is

really important because oftentimes you'll see someone go and, you know, go into a psychedelic, you know, therapy experience or a ceremony and then come back and have all these crazy profound realizations and then try to integrate it into the 3d with someone who has not just had that experience. You know, they're just like, let's go to lunch at air one. And they're, they're just not on the same frequency. So it's really important to, to have people that, um, can support you through that process that have been, that have been a part of it. You know, journaling, meditation, really making sure that you're coming back to your experience and revisiting it.

There's a million different ways that you can do it. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, and, you know, kind of to your point, what you were saying about if people are not ready to kind of face some stuff, maybe this mushrooms aren't ready or for them yet. And I can kind of speak to this experience in myself. And I feel like in a way the mushrooms kind of find you like you're, I feel like usually you, you end up in these experiences with mushrooms when you are finally ready to face those. And I'm speaking from my own personal experience. I've talked about this a couple of times on the podcast. I lost my little sister to a really

tragic accident when I was eight. And I was able to move through the grief of all of that with a really macro dose of mushrooms. But the wildest thing was that I did not plan any of this out. I feel like a lot of times people intentionally go to an ayahuasca retreat or you do this, like, you know, therapy, therapy assisted psilocybin trip. And I just had this one night where all this stuff had been coming up for me over the last couple of months before leading up to that. And I had this one night where I was just like, I don't even know what it was. I was just like, I'm going for it and I'm going to do a bunch of mushrooms. And that night, I ended up releasing all of this grief that I've been holding on for like 25 years that I didn't even know was

there. And it was just like, it was almost as if like, I was Yeah, it was like the mushrooms kind of led me into this. And I didn't even know that it was there. And the beautiful thing about that with the mushrooms, in my experience was that there was all this stuff that I was really scared to face that I wasn't ready to face that they helped me get through that and face it in a way that felt safe. And like, I could actually like really face it head on. And I just think it's so cool that how this whole thing, I don't know, just kind of how it all unfolded in that way. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I, I think that one of the that one of the most profound things that psilocybin specifically can do is help with grief and loss. And you see this exactly what you're describing, these amazing results that they're having with, with clinical trials with patients that are,

you know, um, that have terminal cancer end of life care. Like there was this, this, this study that I was just reading, um, in the Washington post and they haven't officially published the results, but the preliminary findings were that out of these 30 participants, um, for end of life care, 80% had their depression scores lower by 50%. And, and, oh, sorry, it was, let's see, I wrote down the stat, 80% had their depression scores dropped by at least 50%. And then half no longer had clinical depression after a single dose of psilocybin. And you're seeing this a lot with like end of life and helping people transition, helping people mourn the mourn, um, deaths that they've experienced or just traumas that they've experienced. And it's, it's profound. And you, and after you go through it, you're, you're a believer because you feel different. You feel different. I'm sure you feel like a

different person after going through this experience. And, um, as far as being you know called to it mushrooms are magical and I think that if you look at you know what's going on underneath the earth there's I like to think a lot about like what's happening you know underground as above so below and vice versa but there's mycelium which is the underground root structure of mushrooms that covers every inch of of the planet. So everywhere you walk, we're stepping on, you know, on average, like 300 miles of mycelial biomass underneath our feet. And it connects all living things on earth. And so when you see mushrooms popping up out of a grassy field, which, you know, mushroom is the fruiting body. So the fruiting body, which you,

which most people think of as a mushroom is the actual mushroom, but that underneath is, is the mycelium. It it's, it's just the tip of the iceberg. And so there's all these beautiful messages that you can learn from mushrooms and how they operate underground. And I think a lot of the, you know, this is like my, you know, my spiritual assessment of, of mushrooms, but I think a lot of the realizations that people have when they trip is just feeling more connected to other humans, like mushrooms are to mycelium. And, um, there's just a lot of really beautiful parallels there. Sorry, my dog is growling. Um, hey, stop. Sorry. And that um hey stop sorry and that totally we'll just cut all this out that completely like hey um yeah no i mean that's what's so beautiful about mushrooms and you know what i've noticed

too which has been really cool in my experience of doing them is that every time i eat mushrooms even if i'm just like you know out partying with friends and social get these little downloads. And sometimes they're really small little blip things that just kind of like, I don't even know how to explain it other than I literally describe it as a download where it's just all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, yeah, this is just something I accept. And it's part of me now. And I'd never realized it before. Like, I will never forget there was one. Prior to having this experience, I realized that I was looking outside of myself for answers and validation and love and all of this stuff. And I had this moment one time where I was just like, you have everything you need that

you're looking for in you. And that sounds so simple. It sounds so cheesy, but there was something about the way that it connected with me when I was on those mushrooms that it was like, all of a sudden it was just like, yes, like this makes so much sense to me. This is a part of me now. And now I have this wisdom that I can take on, um, with me through life. And that was, it was such a simple thing and it completely changed my life. Yeah. There's, there's a quote around cliche becomes wisdom through experience. And so that's why, you know, when you have experiences with Soul Simon or other psychedelics, yeah, it imprints you.

It lasts. I'm such a huge believer. And it's because of seeing crazy changes in my own life, my family's life. And, you know, once you, if you are, you know, kind of more skeptical about the space as people should be, people should be skeptical about new information like this, because it's being introduced to a lot of people for the first time, and they've had to rewrite all these old programs. I grew up with the DARE program too. It's a completely different, it's a completely different education. And, you know, there's no real judgment around that because that's just how, you know, society, you know, evolved, but there's all this information out there, you know, through things like podcasts, through social

media, like that is one of the beauties of social media that we're able to have access to this information and access to the learnings and wisdom of indigenous tribes that have been using these ceremonies for thousands of years. And like, you know, we're having all these aha wake up moments and, you know, all, you know, if you, if you go and look at, you know, the lineages and the, and the, and the tribes that have been using these in ceremonial settings routinely throughout their entire lives, it's just a part of their livelihood. And so they're kind of like, yeah, yeah. You guys kind of are starting to get it now. Um, and I'm just grateful that we have access to this information and that there's things like this that are happening. It's, it's such an exciting time in the space, but there's in,

in 2018, it was, it was still this new taboo thing and it still has stereotypes, psychedelics overall. But now there's over 50 publicly traded companies in North America that are focused on psychedelics. There's hundreds of clinical trials underway studying all of these different disorders. And there's all of this progress and legalization all throughout the country decriminalizing on a local level psilocybin you know oregon voted to legalize psilocybin through measure 109 which is really exciting and that's still you know just to clarify for people that are listening that that does not mean that all psychedelics and psilocybin are going to be legal and that you can go in and all of a sudden the chocolate mushrooms that you're that you're eating on the weekends are going to be legal that's that's go in and all of a sudden the chocolate mushrooms that you're, that you're eating on the, on the weekends are going to be legal. That's, that's, that's not

the case, but macrodosis at service centers, that's what's happening in Oregon. And they're putting the policy in place right now to figure out what that exactly will look like, but it will enable anyone who is a citizen of Oregon right now to start to go in and experience psilocybin assisted therapy, which is amazing. What would someone do if they had a bad reaction? And I'm putting this in quotes because I've heard that a bad reaction is usually just you facing things that you don't want to face in your subconscious. Yeah, I mean, there sessions with psilocybin or another psychedelic and, you know, have what would be deemed like, you know, a bad trip or uncomfortable feelings that come up. And part of that, like, is the process for sure. And, you know, a lot of what psychedelics do for people is help them

go into their trauma, process it, um, figure out where in the body that it lives. I actually just recorded a great podcast with Mary, with Dr. Mary Pardee, who is, I don't know if you've had her on, if you should, if you had her on, you should have her on the podcast, but she's brilliant. And she's looking at a lot of trauma, um, indications and with, with psychedelics and really, really fascinating stuff there about like, what is actually happening in the body when you experience trauma. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is, you know, in part, you're going into the trauma, there is going to be uncomfortable things that come up when you're facing, um, negative emotions from your past that you've never looked at before. But also

there is, you know, risks of people having a bad trip. And I think that there's so much excitement around psychedelics. I'm obviously so excited about them right now. But a lot of what I ask people when they come on our podcast that are experts in this space are what are the downsides that people aren't talking about? Because, you know, there is no magic pill, as we know, in our Western world, like we've been trying to find the magic pill forever. It doesn't exist in psychedelics. It still doesn't exist. It's such a beautiful, incredible tool to help people with whatever they're facing. But there is the possibility for a bad experience. And if you're not supported in the right way,

then that can have some really negative effects. That's why it's called psychedelic assisted therapy. That's why that is what is being studied. It's used in combination with therapy. I'm supportive of all different types of usage, but I, especially if you are someone who is looking for, you know, looking to one of these tools for a clinical indication, anxiety, depression, absolutely do it with, with someone that can support you through that experience so that if you do have a bad trip, you can integrate it well. And it may end up being a great experience, but just make sure you're supported. Yeah. That's a really great point. I also thought about while you were speaking about this, that what I've noticed in my own

experience is the times that I have found, um, I I've always been able to catch it and I've never gone into like a fully really bad experience, but I've kind of been able to catch the beginning phases of feeling like I'm about to go into a bad trip. And for me, what helps is just making sure that I'm surrounded by people that I feel safe with. It's really about the environment for me. Like I remember there was one time that I was at a party and I looked around all of a sudden, I didn't know anyone there. And I was like, oh, I feel like myself spiraling out. And then I just immediately went and found people that I knew felt really safe for me. And then it completely changed my entire mindset around it. And then

I had a great night. Yeah. Set and setting is, is crucial. Yeah. I also just, you know, set and setting is crucial in life. I think, you know, I've been at other psychedelics tend to enhance that. Um, then you, you know, you're super energetically sensitive and I actually think, you know, if you're experiencing those types of feelings, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's just an, it's enhancement. It's an enhancement for sure. And yeah, that's why they say set and setting

is absolutely crucial. Make sure you're with people you trust in an environment that you feel safe in. And that's crucial to the experience. And, you know, just on, you know, this is just an interesting point, you know, 70% of the thoughts that you have are dictated by your environment. And that is true when you're on, when your brain is altered with, with a hallucinogenic, um, or not. So it's why it's important to surround yourself with, you know, healthy, positive things and people just in general. And that's especially true when you're in an altered state. Yeah, for sure. So how did you get into all of this? Are you okay with sharing maybe a profound experience you had with mushrooms? Kind of, yeah. How did you get into all this and your experiences?

Yeah. So I actually, I got, I found functional mushrooms first and those were introduced to me through companies like Four Sigmatic, who's amazing. We have them on the multiverse as well. And I started experimenting with functional mushrooms. I had a wellness company before this, and I started using them every day, you know, five or six years ago. And they totally changed my gut, my health. I've had, you know, a lot of our, and this is maybe a similar story for you, but a lot of my, the greatest things that I've been led to in my life have come from ailments or, you know, or problems that I've had.

So I had severe gut problems since before I can remember. So, you know, probably that came from since I was born or maybe something that happened to me in childhood, but gut problems and functional mushrooms made a huge impact on, you know, they're, they're obviously loaded with a ton of fiber. There's so many incredible health benefits of functional mushrooms, which we could record a whole other podcast on. And, um, I started experiencing that. I started feeling different. I started feeling my energy levels different. I stopped drinking caffeine. I was using cordyceps and chaga. And I just felt amazing. I felt superhuman. And I was like, wow, these are really powerful. And then in parallel, I was paying attention to it. I've always been kind of a self-improvement nerd. And I love people like Tim Ferriss. I've been looking at Michael Pollan's work for years and years. And when they started coming out and talking about psychedelics, and I started looking at profound people that I really respected in the space, actually going so far to fund psychedelic research, I was like, there's something really interesting here. And so I just became a student of it. I started reading everything that I could, listening to everything that I could podcast have been a huge, huge game changer in my life

overall. And I just started to become obsessed. And I was like, I want to do something in the mushroom space that was always in my journals. I just, you know, I w I want to start something in the mushroom space. I'd never knew what it would evolve into. And, um, I think that what I found the most interesting is that these functional mushrooms that had changed my life so radically and the you know the psilocybin psychedelic mushrooms that people were talking about were from the same kingdom and there wasn't really that correlation and so why you know i continue to kind of like harp on functional mushrooms and psilocybin is there's so much to be learned from the fungi kingdom overall and I think you know

there is not one that is more profound than the other they're all really unique in their own ways and part of what we wanted to create with the multiverse was an ecosystem to educate on all all mushrooms you know functional mushrooms psilocybin and and bring together all the things that I care about I love love hosting. I love hosting parties. And so a lot of that community element is a huge part of the brand as well. Yeah. I want to come to one of those dinners. That sounds so fun. For sure. So have you had a really profound mushroom experience? And it could, well, you talked

about your functional one, but do you have one with magic mushrooms that you feel safe sharing or is that not something? Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I actually, I think maybe what comes with most present for me is actually just a recent experience that I have and, or I had an, and a learning that I had for mix. I've had so many, I mean, I've had endless takeaways from mushrooms. They've been the huge, they've been my biggest teachers in my life. And I've had a takeaways from mushrooms. They've been the huge, they've been my biggest teachers in my life. And I've had a lot of really incredible human teachers, but mushrooms have for sure been my, my biggest teachers. And actually I have an article that I wrote and maybe we can link it. I won't, I won't go through all the details, but, but I wrote an article about seven reasons why

humans should behave like mushrooms. And so a lot of my, my takeaways when I, when I, you know, when I take mushrooms are like, how, how can we be more like them? There's so much wisdom and how they operate and how they, you know, function and symbiosis with other species. There's so much, you know, wisdom and collaboration. I, so there's so much there, um, just in general. So maybe we can link to that article. But my most recent experience that's coming up for me is I was with some friends and I was looking, I was in Costa Rica and I was looking on the beach and all of a sudden I realized there's like all of these insane geometric patterns all around me. And I was like, what is this coming from? Like, is this some sort of like a truck that had rolled over the sand and created this pattern? But it

just, it looked super odd and I couldn't understand, I couldn't really understand it. And so I got down close to the sand and I was looking and I realized that there's all these tiny holes in the ground and thousands of these tiny crabs were coming out of the sand and, and then they were coming out of these holes, rolling these little balls of sand and then placing them in all of these like geometric patterns. And they were just thousands of them doing this. And I was just fascinated by this, was watching them and looking at them. And, you know, it's like the most, this is like the most mushroom story ever. Like someone staring into the ground, just obsessed with what they're saying on this, you know, you would never see, you would never notice if you

were, um, if this, if this, if you were not in an altered state. And I just remember thinking like, oh my God, they're just working so hard. I just want, you know, I just want to tell them like, go relax, get a beer with your friend. Like, you know, just, just like take a breather. They just like, feel like they were just, just like, it felt like Tasmanian devil, just like watching them, you know, from this like larger, I was just like, I have such perspective. And I just wanted to share with these crabs how hard they were working. And one of my friends looks at me and goes, that's what the aliens are saying about us. And I was like, Whoa. And I was like, that's so true. You know, it's, and, and, you know, just to picture it, just that perspective lift of like, you know, what, if there was someone that was our size compared to what we are to a

crab, um, what would they say about what we're doing with our lives? And it's those kinds of like funny perspectives I've had thousands of, I feel like on, um, you know, with the aid of, of psychedelics and those kinds of perspective shifts get you out of your brain and get you out of this over introspection that, you know, is the root cause of a lot of depression and anxiety. And it just, it just brings me back to humor. And I, yeah, so that, that was one, that was one of my recent experiences. I love that so much. It's also just such a great reminder that perspective, um, can really help you get out

of yourself and out of, out of your own way, I guess. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're able to zoom out and look at the big picture and realize like, oh, life, like we all take life too seriously. And I mean, there's so many different, you know, like routes that we could go down, but having that kind of perspective really helps you, um, to enjoy your life more, I guess, you know? Yeah. They've, they've, they've been profound for me. And I think that you can get those kinds of insights through a million different ways, you know, meditation, nutrition, movement, community. I think it's just another tool in the conversation of wellness. And so part of

what I think is super important as this space progresses is just to start including it, you know, psychedelics and mushrooms, both functional and psilocybin and into the wellness conversation and how can they play a role in your life and be one of the tools that can help you live your most optimal life. Oh, I love that so much. And I love that you brought up these functional adaptogenic mushrooms a lot. What I love so much about these mushrooms, and I like you, this is where I first got introduced into mushrooms was through like Four Sigmatic. And, you know, my whole thing is I really struggled with anxiety my whole life.

And when I started taking things like reishi to calm down my nervous system, what I thought was so cool about these mushrooms is their adaptogenic ability to, um, when you take them, they literally adapt to what your body needs. And when I figured that out, I was like, mushrooms are so cool. They have this infinite wisdom to know exactly what your body needs and And when I figured that out, I was like, mushrooms are so cool. They have this infinite wisdom to know exactly what your body needs and provide it to help assist you in whatever it is that you need assistance in. Yeah, no, they're so why that is, is because they're immune modulators. So you know, they have they've compounds in them that help to modulate our immune system to help it, you know, keep it functioning optimally.

And, you know, they, they really work in our body to help make us more resilient to stressors. And, you know, the easiest way to think about that is homeostasis. Yeah. And they're low, I mean, they're, they're loaded with there's, this is, you know, a whole other conversation, but polyphenols, polysaccharides, beta glucans, um, that really help your body to support your immune system, to manage stress. And then, you know, each of the individual functional mushrooms, chaga, turkey tail, reishi, there's like 13 main ones that people talk about, all have a more specific function in and of themselves. But together, you know, it's like this overall boost of antioxidant and immune system function. Yeah. I love that so much. So how, how do you think mushrooms are going to help with our world and our society and like everything that we're dealing with right now? I feel like, um, there's, there's a need for like more consciousness in our society. What do mushrooms

kind of do for that? And how do you think they're going to help us shift society? And that can be functional magic. All of them. Yeah. It's my, it's my favorite thing to talk about. You know, so if you, depending on what studies you look at, one eighth of the global population is suffering from some sort of a mental health disorder. And those are just indications that are, that are known. And that feels really real to me, like that statistic feels very accurate. Some of the highest performing people that I know, that people would never guess are suffering from some sort of anxiety, depression, it's a we live in a very interesting world right now, or that that makes a lot of sense why people are experiencing that. We have so much stimuli and there's so much going on. And I think that psilocybin, I had a friend that described it this way

and they have incredible work. Azria and B. Becker just released a book on becoming. So this is their words, not mine, but they described what's the state of our planet, like a burning forest right now. And psychedelics are the shortcut in a lot of ways for people. They are described as, you know, years of therapy. People come out of these experiences and say, wow, it would have taken me 10 years of talk therapy to get there. And so because of the state of the planet, it feels like it necessitates

a quicker response, which psychedelics can help get us there quicker. So that's on the psychedelic front, but on just like a general overall mushroom level, like it is fascinating what's happening in the world with fungi. And, you know, we, we, we touched on functional mushrooms. You see them popping up in, in every supplement and, and, you know, consumer package, good category that you can imagine drinks, beverages. I have it right here. We make functional mushrooms, superfood sprays. And it's amazing. So there's all these products that are helping people incorporate mushrooms back into their diet because humans stopped eating them in the West. And on the other side of things, something we

didn't discuss yet is mycelium, which is this underground root structure of mushrooms is being used for packaging alternatives. It's being used for reversal of environmental damage. There's some mushrooms that can that are happening with fungi. Like the list truly is endless. People are using mycelium for leathers and these massive companies, Stella McCartney, NASA, you know, Adidas are all getting into mycelium alternatives to packaging into leathers and to plastics. It's really, really wild. So the use case is endless. And a lot of, you know, what I like to

say is, which is a bit, it's a big statement, but if you look at all the problems the world is facing, there does seem to be an avenue for mushrooms to help. And that's, that's really exciting. You know, that's everything from mental health to fashion. Yeah. That's so cool. I haven't heard that yet about, um, like, uh, leather alternatives. That's really from mental health to fashion. Yeah, that's so cool. I haven't heard that yet about like leather alternatives. That's really cool. And the packaging too. I mean, we need to get rid of our plastic. So that's really exciting.

I also see it too as kind of like, since it's helping people become more connected with themselves and healing their trauma, it's allowing people to show up better in the world, having, you know, being healed. It's kind of like the, that concept of you put on your air mask or your, you know, your mask first on the airplane before you can help others. It's kind of like helping you become more connected to yourself and healing your traumas. Then you can show up in the world and then, you know, be an example for other people and things like that, you know, trickle out into society. And so I think that's really cool. And also

having this kind of profound connection with nature. I mean, people talk about this all the time and I've experienced this as well as when you're on mushrooms, you just want to be outside in nature, you know, and you see the trees breathe and you feel this sense of connection with our world that you don't normally feel on a day-to-day basis. And it's such a nice reminder that, you know, we came from the earth, we're all connected. And I think that too kind of helps us get out of this kind of individualism that we're experiencing right now where everyone's, you know, we're not living in tribes anymore. We're all living holed up in our apartments, especially the last two years, you know, we've been so disconnected.

And what a beautiful thing that this is kind of hopefully bringing more connection back to We're all living holed up in our apartments, especially the last two years. You know, we've been so disconnected. And what a beautiful thing that this is kind of hopefully bringing more connection back to society. Yeah, that's beautiful. I actually, Christian, Dr. G, I was just sharing this on his podcast. So apologies if it's repetitive. But, you know, one of the takeaways that a lot of people have with mushrooms or other psychedelics is that they want to be outside in nature with other people. And what our modern world is conditioning us to go towards is to be in these massive houses alone, which is, you know, it just it feels very ironic when you look at it that way, but yeah, they, they are, they are incredible. And I I'm excited for what's happening in this space right now,

because I think that the more education, the more things like this that are going on, the more conversations around them, it's going to invite people to look inwards. It's definitely invited me to look inwards. And I think it all does start with, start with the human. And a lot of why I'm excited about the microdosing collective and specifically microdosing psilocybin in addition to, you know, the macro dosing that all these clinical trials that are going on is amazing as well. But, um, the slight neuroplasticity that microdosing has enabled me to have while I'm in my life. And the live pattern interruption that enables me to have is, is really, really powerful for me. Yeah, that's so cool. So for people listening, I know you're really passionate about this, especially with the legislation and all that.

How can people get involved? Like, how can they, you know, put their money to help a cause or, I don't know, talk to their local senators. Like what are different things that people can do if they're really passionate about this? Like you are. Yeah. I love that question. Um, the reason why we created this, um, this, we have a 501c3, it's called the microdosing collective. And the reason why we created it is to build a community that are passionate about microdosing. And there's a few different ways right now. We're in the process of building a library of resources and putting together all of our advisory board and our next steps. But there's some really exciting momentum that's happening. So if people want to,

number one, just stay up to date with what we're doing, go sign up for our mailing list. It's microdosingcollective.org, which we can link in the show notes. And there's an option to donate. Please sign our manifesto. We have a manifesto that we've written about our perspective on the space, what our intention is with the organization and what our plans are. And then if anyone is looking to be more actively involved, the more hands on deck, the better. So you can know, you can reach out to me personally, uh, or just send a message through, through microdosing collective, and we will, we'll get back to you. Awesome. And tell everyone a little bit about super mush. You mentioned it a little bit, but I want you to really talk about these. Um, I first discovered super mush well through

you, but then also I literally went to air one and they were spraying it in, um, their lattes. So I've been putting your, the cinnamon – I forgot which one that's called. The cinnamon spray like in my coffee. Yes. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean Super Mush is what I spend most of my time on and it's been such a fun project to watch come to life. So we, you know, if people want to check it out at supermush.com,

we have launched our first product a little, a little over five, I guess it's five months now. And, um, they're functional superfood mouth sprays. And the reason why we created this is mushrooms don't typically taste good. People, you know, as we're discussing this conversation, a lot of people have an aversion to mushroom. They don't like the taste and they're kind of grossed out by mushrooms. So we wanted to, to create something that was highly effective that got mushrooms into your system, your daily dose as quick as possible, but also tasted amazing and had this crave ability and to also create a brand that helped to shift the culture around mushrooms. So we have them. I know some people would just be listening, so they can't see the ones that I'm holding up, but, um, this is our

energy spray and it's made with cordyceps, lion's mane, green tea extract, orange peel, a bunch of other superfoods and adaptogens. So it's not just mushrooms in a bottle. Um, sweetened with a little bit of honey and monk fruit, but you know, essentially nothing in the whole bottle. No, you know, negligible caffeine, a little bit from the green tea extract. But people are using the energy spray to get off coffee. They're using it to party at night when they don't want to stay up all night with caffeine or other things. And what you do is you shake, you spray four times on your tongue. The reason why we launched sprays is because it's actually the most effective way

to get supplements into your system. You're probably familiar with sublingual delivery and why tinctures are so effective, but sprays actually take that one step further through this process called buccal absorption. So when you spray something, it goes directly into your cheek mucosal layer in your lungs. So you feel it almost immediately. So there's like, you know, on one hand, you will feel the effects of, of these mouth sprays within, within minutes. And the more you take them over time, you boost your immune system and they help you become more resilient against, against disease and, um, endless list of benefits. So we have an energy mouth spray. We have an immunity one, which is the one you're talking about. It tastes like cinnamon toast. It's delicious. It's made with, with reishi and

turkey tail, cinnamon ginger. It's like, it's like kind of a pumpkin spice latte, cinnamon toast, crunch vibes. It's really good. And then we have this daily chill one, which is made with reishi, ashwagandha. And this, this is my favorite. I take this throughout the day. Um, you know, before important meetings, I have a lot of energy, so it helps kind of bring me down and every night before I go to bed and it's been a game changer and I can just take them in my pocket without having to mix, you know, a drink, a powder. Um, you just literally spray it on your tongue. You're done. Yeah. It's so nice. I know I throw them in my bag and bring them with me. Like I love the chill one too. Cause like I mentioned earlier, I deal with a

lot of stress and anxiety and I've been using that spray a lot. It's really cool. Yeah. I love it. Um, before we end everything, is there anything that you feel is really important that we didn't get over or that we didn't go over that you think people should know about? We covered a lot. I think we touched on, you know, most, most things I would just say, um, you know, for, for, for anyone that's interested in, in mushrooms and looking to, you know, to incorporate them more into their life, definitely check out super mush. We created it for people that, um, may be a little bit skeptical, people that are mushroom curious, um, but looking to incorporate the benefits into their world. And, um, I would

just say for people that are looking into the psilocybin space, those resources I mentioned, third wave, double blind, um, do your research and the more you learn, um, I guarantee you will be fascinated. Please reach out if you have any other questions. And yeah, I'm just really excited to see how this space evolves. And I really appreciate the conversation and you doing what you're doing on your podcast and just the vulnerability around all that. I think it's so important. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

I was just going to say, I love that you're doing this. It's definitely needed right now. And I love your voice in this community. And it's really cool what you're doing, especially going after the legislation and trying to create a safer place for people to experiment with these psychedelics. It's really cool. So before we go, I want to ask you what I ask everyone, which is what are your health non-negotiables?

So these are things that no matter how busy and crazy your day is, uh, that you do to prioritize your health, it can be, you know, meditating, exercising, whatever it is. These are things that you have to do on a daily basis for your health. Hmm. You know, I, I, yeah, this is not, this is not a plug, but mushrooms. I take mushrooms every day. Um, those are my, if I can't take any other supplement, I take some sort of a functional mushroom product every single day. And movement is crucial for me. I think, you know, it doesn't happen every single day because of where my life is at right now, but the days that I have the best days are the days where I'm moving in and working out. That is such a game changer for my energy levels, my mood, everything.

And gratitude is really huge for me. I have this app that I'm using on my phone right now, where it reminds me to send like a love note, a gratitude note to someone in my life that I love every single day. And I do that every single day. I do have a pretty elaborate morning routine and practice that I get to most mornings where, you know, I have my whole little altar set up. I have my red light, I have my journal. Um, and I have an entire gratitude practice that I go through. Um, with that, I actually have these like tiny cute little, um, like crystal mushrooms that I use, uh, with that, I actually have these like tiny, cute little, um, like crystal mushrooms that I use, uh, that are, that are part of my routine.

Everything's, everything's very on brand over here, but, um, you know, gratitude is huge for me and they, and they, that shows up in a bunch of different ways. Um, the last thing I think I'll say is community. My closest people are so important to me. And I think there's not a, there's not many things in life that the right conversation with the right person cannot solve. And so, um, connection with all the amazing humans in my life is, is, is vital for my happiness. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. It is really important. All right. So where can people find you and where can they

find super mush and the multiverse, all of it, plug all your stuff so people can find you. Yes. So you can find me at Instagram on Allie Shaper and it's A-L-L-I-S-C-H-A-P-E-R. And then super mush is at super mush on Instagram. Also also supermush.com. Multiverse, our marketplace is yourmultiverse.com. It's also on Instagram at multiverse. And then our podcast, Into the Multiverse, you can find everywhere podcasts are streamed, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, yada, yada. You can also find us on Instagram at Into the Multiverse. And that Instagram account is if you want to keep up to date with the latest psychedelic

legalization news, our podcast, events, everything in that world. And yeah, those are the main platforms. And then also we mentioned Microdosing Collective, but MicrodosingCollective.org is our nonprofit. And you can find it online also at Instagram at microdosing collective. Amazing. And we will add all these to the show notes too, so that people can find all the links really easily. So, well, thank you so much, Allie. This was such an amazing conversation. I loved it. Thank you for having me on. I loved it too. And I can't wait to see you again soon. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know.

This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist.

As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. you