Realfoodology - Iron Metabolism and Its Impact on Health | Morley Robbins

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

EP. 171: On this Morley Robbins joins us again to explore the fascinating world of iron metabolism and its significance for our health. Morley provides an in-depth interpretation of my personal blood test results, highlighting the importance of understanding our individual health markers. We discuss the roles of various proteins in preventing excess iron and the influence of diet, sleep, stress, and glyphosate exposure on our iron levels. We delve into the correlation between copper and COVID symptoms and the importance of maintaining balanced mineral intake. The conversation also covers the role of copper in iron regulation and inflammation prevention. Topics Discussed: 00:00 - Understanding Iron Metabolism and Test Results 12:38 - Iron Metabolism's Impact on Health 22:09 - Iron Metabolism and Copper in COVID 33:50 - Exploring Systemic Benefits and Nutrient Imbalances 47:47 - Reference Ranges and Master Antioxidants 53:53 - Iron and Copper Levels in Body 01:06:25 - New Information on Body Health Check Out Morley Robbins and The Root Cause Protocol: Online Instagram Facebook Youtube FIQ [e-mail] [phone] Roles of Copper in Lipid Metabolism Book Recuperate IQ Cu-RE Your Fatigue Book Links Mentioned: https://www.functionhealth.com/ Rcp123.org The Dr. Tyna Show Sponsored By: PALEOVALLEY for 15% off go to https://paleovalley.com/promos/realfoodology LMNT Get 8 FREE packs with any order at drinkLMNT.com/realfoodology ARMRA Colostrum tryarmra.com/realfoodology enter REALFOODOLOGY to get 15% off your first order Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic seed.com/realfoodology Use code REALFOODOLOGY for 30% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off BiOptimizers BIOptimizers' Black Friday Mega Sale is happening right now and lasting throughout the entire month of November! The biggest discount you can get and amazing gifts with purchase are available only on my page bioptimizers.com/realfoodology with a code REALFOODOLOGY Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram:  @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Produced By: Drake Peterson Edited By: Mike Frey

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. I am absolutely appalled at the disinformation around iron metabolism, because copper is what runs the recycling program. That 2.5 million RBCs taken offline every second, that requires bioavailable copper to complete that cycle. And that apparently is not taught in any doctor school on the planet. Hi friends, welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. Today's guest And that apparently is being stored in the tissues or in the blood. And I got that test done. And then he goes over my results in real time and explains what all of it means. It is so fascinating. We left in the show notes, a link to the test that

I got. If you guys want to get it, I paid for it myself. I can't remember the cost. I think it was around 150 bucks. Don't quote me on that. Something around that, maybe 200. It was definitely not more than 200. So you guys can absolutely go to the website, order the test, and then get your results back. So we go over my results. He talks about what all of it means. And it was absolutely fascinating. I took a course in my graduate program when I was getting my master's in nutrition. And we went over how to read lab results. And that was one of my favorite classes that I took.

It's so fascinating to be able to get a glimpse into what is happening in the body in real time. I say this all the time, blood work is so incredibly imperative to know what is going on. And blood work is the best way that we can figure out what is actually happening in the body. So I highly recommend if you're at all interested in this, getting that. Another test that I mentioned a couple times in the episode that I got is something called Function Health.

I would go to their website, just Google Function Health. It's Mark Hyman's new blood work program where you pay X amount of money per year. I pay for it, by the way. This is not a sponsor. I paid for it with my own money. And you get three blood draws a year. And essentially what it is

is trying to make blood work really accessible and also normalize people getting blood work a couple of times a year because that's really the best way that you can stay on top of your health and see trends and yeah, just really like stay on top of your health. So anyways, I hope you guys love the episode. And we mentioned in the very end of the episode, please DM me and write me any questions that you have after listening to the episode. And then I'm going to bring Morley back on and we're going to answer all your questions. So

thanks so much. As always, if you guys are loving the podcast, please take a moment to rate and review it. It means so much. It really helps the show. And I just appreciate your support so much. Thanks, guys. Is it just me or is colostrum just totally taking the internet by storm? I mean, I'm so happy about it. And it's so interesting how certain things will just become a massive trend. I've been taking colostrum for probably at least 10 years now or so. My mom got me on it. It's an ancient practice used for immune function. It really helps to strengthen and bolster the immune system. And I will say Armra colostrum has really taken the internet by storm. And for good reason, it is a really good high quality colostrum. I get so many DMs from you guys just specifically asking me if I use Armra Colostrum. And yes, I do.

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a super food golden milk, which is going to be really good going into fall. So make sure you guys check it out, use the code real foodology, and you're going to save some money. I'm so excited. I have Morley Robbins back with me today and you guys loved this episode and you had so many questions. So I wanted to bring him back on to answer some of those questions, dive more deeply into iron, because this seems to be something that a lot of people are really confused about. And I also got my test results back. So I did the lab test that Morley and I talked about on the last episode, and he's going to go through it live with us with my results. So we're all going to learn together in this. I'm so excited. Morley, thank you so much for coming back. I'm delighted to be here. I'm just thinking about how much fun it is to go through someone's blood work and how

we can make it a lot of fun, right? Yes, I totally agree. I love it. I actually did a course in college when I was getting my master's in nutrition. We did an entire course just on how to read lab results. And I was so fascinated by it that I'm actually going to do... I have a girlfriend who, if you don't know who she is, I should link you up with her. Her name is Emily Morrow,

and she does a course on how to read blood work. And I'm actually going to do this course too, because I find it so fascinating. That's cool. No, I would enjoy meeting her and having a chance to connect with her. That'd be a lot of fun. Yeah. What I can say at the outset is that um there is so much confusion about blood work particularly as it relates to iron i never imagined that there was so much distortion uh in the in the system and that all these declarations of anemia are based on really faulty interpretations of the results. And that'll become more clear as we get into this. But what I want to amplify real quick for the listeners and for you as well,

is there are three containers for iron in the human body. There's a big giant bucket, and that bucket, you know how big a bucket is, and the bucket holds hemoglobin, which is 70% of the iron in the body. Now, if you include myoglobin, which is very similar to it, we're up to 80% of the iron. So basically, those proteins are waders carrying oxygen, and on the way to and the way back, they're carrying CO2. But they're basically waders, and they're dumber than a box of rocks. So a huge portion of iron shows up in hemoglobin, and to the extent that you have access to myoglobin, but 70% of the iron is tied up in that blood protein. Then there's another container. It's a teacup.

You know how different a teacup is than a bucket. So the teacup of iron is called ferritin. And ferritin is this iron storage protein, as you probably know, and that's found inside the tissue. It's not supposed to be in the blood. And it turns out there's actually three different forms of ferritin. There's something called heavy chain. And heavy chain means it's like an ATM machine and it's principally found in heart and kidney tissue. And so what you're doing is you're putting iron in, taking iron out, putting it in, taking it out.

That's what an ATM machine does. It doesn't just dispense, you can actually make deposits too. Then there's something called light chain. Light chain doesn't work the way an ATM does. And it's found in the liver and the spleen principally. And light chain doesn't have copper as part of its function. Heavy chain does. Light chain uses hydrogen peroxide to force the iron into the storage protein. It's not as clean. It's like a square peg in a round hole. Ding, ding, ding.

It's not as efficient. And there's a third chain, excuse me, third form of ferritin that no one's ever heard of, especially your doctor. No offense, they just haven't been trained this way. But there's a third form of ferritin and it's called glycated or glycosylated ferritin. G-ferritin is what it's called. So we have H-ferritin, L-ferritin, and G-ferritin. You've never heard that term, I'm sure. I shouldn't be so presumptuous, but I didn't think you had. And the G-ferritin means that it has been secreted out of tissue, principally the liver and the spleen but it's it's an altered form of light chain ferritin

that has no iron in it and so this this blood test that we're going to be looking at is going to be evaluating your serum ferritin it's acosylated, think of it as a glycated, a sugared form of ferritin, but there's no iron in it. So it's a complete false narrative about what's going on inside your tissue. So we've got the bucket, we've got the teacup, and then we have a thimble. And the thimble, you know how tiny a thimble is? Yeah. I mean, there was a time when a lot of people would know what a thimble is. I'm on the shaky ground here.

How many people really know what a thimble is? You know what? I think I would argue that more people know about it than you'd think simply because of the gay monopoly. Okay, very good. Good comeback, right? Yeah, yeah. What was I thinking? So thimble, real tiny, and that's called serum iron, and it's in one of the first markers

in your blood test. And it's 1% of the blood. So we've got bucket of 80, we've got a teacup of 10, we've got a thimble of one, and then the rest are just proteins that are found throughout the cells and the mitochondria. But those three containers are really important, and they reveal completely different aspects of iron metabolism, and they have been grossly distorted to make the declaration you're anemic and then they like the rejoinder which is and you're copper toxic too right that's that's that's the meme that runs medicine now is you're anemic and you're copper toxic so what we see um right

out of the blocks very top is iron and t TIBC. TIBC stands for total iron binding capacity. And basically what it is, is it's the number of docking stations in the blood for recycling iron. So that every second of every day, our spleen, most people, they've heard of a spleen, but it's on the left side. Liver's on the right side. I actually think the spleen is the brains of the outfit to regulate a liver. It's a very different way of thinking about it. But anyway, you've got the intersection of two major metabolic pathways. You have iron recycling and you've got immune system.

And so every second, there's 250 million red blood cells going through the spleen. 1% need to be taken offline. Every second. Wow. So it's 2.5 million red blood cells. Spleen's got to pull those out,

and it's got to check and make sure that there's no pathogens, encapsulated bacteria, fungus, virus, or parasites, every second. So picture Lucy and Ethel at the chocolate factory. The manager just said, speed it up, boys. And that's your spleen. Stuff's just going by. And that's innate intelligence at work. And when the spleen doesn't have enough energy, it can't think because IQ requires energy.

And what would cause someone's spleen to not have enough energy? Would this be connected to diet, sleep, all that, immune function? Stress, but being exposed to glyphosate, exposed... And what is important to know is that people with celiac disease have a compromised spleen. People with Crohn's, colitis, IBS, compromised spleen. Turns out that there's about 100 different autoimmune conditions. And guess what they all involve? A compromised spleen that has excess iron, has parasites, and there's usually emotional trauma attached.

So this neglected organ becomes front and center for trying to bring the body back into regulation. And this is all new information. I just happened to have a mind bending conversation with Brian Artis. Brian Artis is the chiropractor who's trying to enlighten people about denim. And fascinating guy. And he's really schooling me up about the spleen. Because most doctors, most practitioners don't know anything about it.

I didn't know it. I didn't know it. I mean, I knew what it was, but I didn't know what it did until recently. And it's an oh my God moment. So what we're seeing here with your blood work is the TIBC, total iron binding capacity. What that really represents is a transport protein, transferrin, which is probably gonna be farther down in your blood work, which we can come back to it.

Transferrin and ceruloplasmin are two of the most important proteins in our body because they're the first line of defense to prevent us from having excess iron. And that is the culprit in all illness. I don't care whether we're talking about autoimmune cancer, metabolic syndrome syndrome you name the condition i know there's copper iron conflict but there's building oxidative stress as a result of that iron dysregulation that's behind every um symbol symptom that's mentioned in the um merck manual so that's the that's an important cornerstone for people to understand is that there is no disease, there's metabolic dysfunction, and it's caused by copper iron

dysregulation. And so your TIPC, 340, divide that by 12 and a half, you get about 27. And that's pretty close to what it should be. Ideal would be 30, and you're at 27. So that's pretty close to what it should be. Ideal would be 30 and you're at 27. So that's actually, that's pretty good. Amazing. Well, and you know what's interesting is that I might've been at 30 before. So if you can, you see on there a previous result and dates.

Oh my God, that's right. 364, I didn't even see that. So 364. It was 384 before that. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's okay. So yeah, I've been getting a ton of blood work, and I guess they tested that previously back in June.

I think it was through, I've been doing Function Health, Mark Hyman's new project. But I think that's where that came from. So it was originally 384, so I was going to ask you, what does that mean that all these numbers went down? It wasn't a ton, but I did notice that the TIBC, the UIBC, the iron and the iron saturation all went down just a touch. Actually, the iron saturation went up.

Went up a little bit, yeah. Keep in mind, I remember years ago reacting to someone's blood work, and I had befriended a world-renowned pathologist. He's at the University of Louisville. And I was barking at him about this. And he said, Morley, he said, do you realize that there's a 20% error rate in blood testing? And I went, no, I didn't know that.

So I was just, I was totally deflated by that comeback. Because we put such, we have an electron microscope over these numbers. I was like, of course these are accurate. No, they're not. They're just, they're close. And so you're absolutely right about your previous result was spot on at about 30 for transferrin, which is exactly where you want it. Your iron is running hot. And ideally, again, assuming that these blood tests were taken on day 15,

I'm pretty sure the second one was. I'm not sure about the first one. But ideally, a woman should be around 100. Guys should be about 120. And so when it's running hot, I, from my read of the research, would suggest that maybe uric acid might be an issue. And we'll see in a minute if that plays out. The thing is, in a woman's body, we have swirling seas. And that's why you have to do it around day 15, because you've got this massive flux of iron and magnesium, especially, that's taking place. Everyone's been trained to focus on estrogen and progesterone, when in fact the real sea change is between iron and magnesium in a woman's body.

So it's just a good thing to know. And who's regulating all that is this guy named Copper. But no one ever talks about that. I have a question about all this too because we talked about this on the last episode. Because I have hemochromatosis, I've been told that my iron levels will always kind of fluctuate a little bit. And I wonder if this plays a role in that. Yes. Okay, so I completely forgot youuate a little bit. And I wonder if this plays a role in that. Yes. Okay. So I completely forgot your hemo.

Yeah. Hemochrome, I guess they call them. And that's just a term of endearment, right? Hemochrome. All right. So, okay. So now we've just changed the battlefield. Interesting.

Okay. And maybe we can explain to people just, you know, like really quickly, just a little like refresh of what that means. Well, what that means is you have a propensity, a tendency to store iron in your tissue. And it's not a death sentence. The fact that you know about it and what you want to be doing is um regular phlebotomies to stay on top of it because yeah and so when you're when you're again go back to the thimble your thimble has 20 too much iron so it's not like it's a lot of iron, right? But what it reveals is that your iron recycling is running hot because it has lots of iron in it. And the important thing is that what hemochromatosis does is it affects a critical iron hormone called hepcidin. And hepcidin, and I'm sure, I'm trying to picture

the average listener right now, they're like half asleep, like, what's he talking about? But hepcidin is a very important hormone that affects the recycling of iron, especially at the back door called ferroportin that's supposed to release iron into the bloodstream. And it looks like your system is releasing lots of iron, which is just the nature of the beast. And so you want to stay on top of that. You want to be very mindful of your regular phlebotomies in addition to your monthly menstrual flow. Okay. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So then when you divide serum iron by TIBC, total iron binding capacity, you get what's called percent saturation. What percent of the docking stations, what percent of those transferrin proteins are tied up with iron? And ideally, you don't want to get above, say, 35%. You're right on the edge, which is fine. I like to see it closer to 20, between 20 and 35%.

The closer it is to 20% saturation, the lower your chance of getting cancer. The closer it is to 60%, the greater your chance of cancer. And so you're creeping around the midpoint. So again, you just want to stay on top of the phlebotomies. So does that mean, okay, so do more phlebotomies essentially to keep that lower? Exactly. And what I would be doing were I you with what I know, I'd be really pounding down the copper and the RCP to make sure that you are regulating the iron with mother nature's natural iron regulator. And that's iron, that's copper, excuse me. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And I'm wondering if there's a copper supplement that you recommend. I think I asked you this last time on the podcast, but I can't remember what, do you have one? I do. I can't remember what it was. Do you have one? I do. I can't remember. Okay. So, you know, I wrote the book in 2020, but didn't use the word COVID. And then when I figured out what COVID stood for, COV, coppers vanished, ID, irons dysregulated, I decided to make a copper supplement in 2021. And it's called Recuperate.

And that's an indication of my unending wit. Recuperate. And so you can get that from Formula IQ. And they've got the whole line of supplements you need to do though, RCP. Okay, amazing. And actually, you know what? That was one of the questions that I got. Someone DMed me after they listened to the podcast and they said, could you, let me see, I wrote this down. They asked me, they said, I didn't quite grasp the correlation between copper and COVID symptoms.

And they were like, if you have another opportunity to interview him, could you please delve deeper into the topic? And so I wrote that down because I knew you were coming back on. So maybe we can take a moment to dive into that a little bit. Yeah. If we have time. Yeah. So there's, what happened with COVID is there was something called a cytokine storm, and it was triggered by the spike protein. Now, we're getting in some real sophisticated biochemistry, but the spike protein is very similar to this hormone called hepcidin. And it really messes up iron metabolism. And what the cytokine storm did

was it unleashed a significant amount of ferritin into the bloodstream. And what that represents is a massive flux of inflammation, most likely in the liver, but also in the spleen and maybe even in the kidney. But it was a massive change in the metabolism that resulted in a breakdown in energy production that led to this flooding of ferritin. And inflammation inflammation if we were talking to a biochemist right now we said how do you spell inflammation they would say h202 hydrogen peroxide because that's what inflammation really is it's a bleaching agent believe it or not and so it's it's actually ineffective energy production so when we're making energy in the mitochondria, we're activating oxygen and turning it into two molecules of water, and that's 2H2O.

It's not H2O2. It turns out that the cycle in the mitochondria, it's a two-stroke engine the first stroke turns oxygen into hydrogen peroxide but then there's supposed to be a second stroke to turn it into two molecules of water 2h2o when that doesn't happen because of a lack of bioavailable copper inflammation will rise and create conflict in the body and there'll be energy loss. And that's what the cytokine storm was all about. And so the other part of it is hepcidin expresses at higher levels in a copper deficient body. Now, mind you, I've been studying this for about six or seven years, and I'm just now beginning to feel comfortable talking about it. And I don't say that to be braggadocious. We're talking about really confusing biochemistry and physiology. And so the average person who thinks that iron metabolism is measured in a ruler,

high and low, is going to be really thrown off by what we've just talked about. Because we're talking about very esoteric information that is not easily revealed on the internet. I can tell you that. Well, friends, we are officially in hot chocolate season. I am declaring hot chocolate season and I am so excited because that means that I get to go back to drinking my nightly salty hot chocolate from Element. I personally know that whenever people first see that Element has a chocolate salt, they get icked out by it. Guys, trust me, you do not want to sleep on this. And during the

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And there's two principal forms of anemia. There's IDA, iron deficiency anemia, which is total iron on the planet that has 36% iron. Iron dysregulated anemia, I'll buy that. It is dysfunctional and dysregulated anemia, I'll buy that. It is dysfunctional and dysregulated. But the other form is called CDA, chronic disease anemia, also called chronic inflammation anemia. And it turns out that CDA stands for copper deficiency anemia because copper is what runs the recycling program. That 2.5 million RBCs taken offline every second, that requires bioavailable copper to complete that cycle. And that apparently is not taught in any doctor school on the planet

because it's where the breakdown is, especially in the spleen. That's where the conflict is. And so essentially what we're saying in layman's terms is people are being told that they're anemic, aka they're not getting enough iron. And what you're saying is that people actually do not have enough copper in order to recycle the iron effectively. Okay. Let's spike the football.

We're in the end zone. We can now, we're done. That's it. Yeah. That's the most important thing for people again people are gonna say wait a minute it can't be that simple actually it is yeah it really is and and we got to think about the fact that there is an innate intelligence in our body that's been dealing with these metals for a long time And what's missing in our environment now? The nutrients, especially

magnesium and copper and vitamin A. And what are they really important for? Iron metabolism. I see this a lot when I interview doctors that there is this, you know, the medical system has been, it's kind of this beast, right? Like we established these certain talking points and we've established this as like, for example, with like iron, we're like, this is how it works. This is the end all be all. We can't change this. I see this with cholesterol too. Like I had another doctor on talking about how the way that we measure cholesterol and what we say is high versus like what our body actually needs. And it's so hard to turn the ship around because a lot of these advances that we made in this conventional

allopathic model were huge at the time, right? We were like discovering all this stuff and we're like, oh my God, this is crazy. Like this is how this works. And it takes so long for the mainstream to catch up to when people start challenging that and we start realizing new information. And it's so frustrating because it's so hard. I read once that it takes about, I think it was like 19 years for the research to catch up with what we start teaching in medical schools. 40 years. 40 years?

40 years. Oh my gosh. Because we're so like steadfast in our beliefs. Right. So I've got a book titled The Role of Copper in Lipid Metabolism. I could run, go get it, but I don't want to take the time.

But it cost me $200 to buy it. And it's about this thick. The first chapter, the very first chapter, documents how copper deficiency causes an elevation in cholesterol in the blood. Wow. And we're talking about world-renowned scientists. And the person who started that movement, his name is Leslie Clavey. We probably

talked about him in our first conversation. 1973, he did an experiment and proved that copper deficiency caused cholesterol, hypercholesterolemia. That's the technical term. He later referred to it is lipid intoxication. And 30 labs, 30 labs around the world have replicated his findings. That's the truth. But the narrative is you need a statin to solve your cholesterol problem. No, you don't. You just need more bioavailable copper.

Yeah, well, and too, and this doctor that I had on was talking about how the, so when you go to your doctor and your doctor's like, you know, they're, they're referencing a range, right. And to, in order to diagnose if you have high cholesterol and he found that the pharmaceutical companies are the ones that are determining these numbers because they want to be able to get more people on statins. It's not necessarily about a healthy range for the average person. It's more about what they can sell to get more people on statins. Because we forget cholesterol is so vilified, we need it for our brains. You know, in a healthy range, we need it.

Our cell membranes don't work without it. Our brain doesn't work without it. Our hormones don't work without it. No, it's just... It's crazy. We've been bam work without it. Our hormones don't work without it. No, it's just... It's crazy. We've been bamboozled. We really have. All right. So continuing with the lie is now we've got vitamin A and vitamin D. And everyone knows they need more vitamin D, right? Nobody knows what vitamin A is. They don't

know what animal-based retinol is. And technically, there's a ratio between vitamin A and D, and there should be technically three times as much vitamin A as there is vitamin D. Ooh, so I need to get mine up. Or no. Yeah, you do. Okay. Your vitamin A is uber low. Your vitamin D is ridiculously high.

It's three times higher than it should be. There's no benefit above 21. Oh, really? For vitamin D? There's no benefit above 21? Okay. That's the range developed by Michael Hollick at Boston University. And he's not the be-all and end-all.

There are other practitioners. I happen to worship at, I mean, I'm from Baltimore, nickname's Baltimorely, worship at the altar of Hopkins. And Muhammad Amer at Hopkins did a major study in 2013 and studied all-cause mortality versus vitamin D level. There was no clinical benefit to having vitamin D above 21.

Absolutely no benefit. And what people don't realize is that the vitamin D, vitamin D blocks vitamin A, and vitamin A is essential to make copper bi available. That's the catch. My only question about the vitamin D is, what about all the research that has been coming out? I would say it's been coming out the last, what, like seven

or eight years for a lot of different things like helping people with cancer and helping with their immune systems. There were some studies coming out about COVID having higher levels of vitamin D meant that the survivability rate went up. Right. Well, I think there's a difference between vitality and survival. And so a lot of the research that's been done on vitamin D is based on correlation, not causation. And when you really get into the weeds of it, there's a big difference between storage D, which is what's being measured here, and active D, which regulates the immune system, but it's a triad. You got to have active D, you got to have a driver, it's called VDR,

vitamin D receptor, and you need a navigator called RXR. And the navigator is a byproduct of vitamin A metabolism. And if you're sucking down a lot of vitamin D, you're blocking vitamin A uptake. What we recommend in the protocol is to take cod liver oil, which has A and D in the right proportions that mother nature wants, which is 10 times more A than D. And when you're focusing just on vitamin D, you're going to invert that, which is what you've done. And I see this all the time when people, their A and D is inverted and it will cause second and third order implications in your metabolism. And vitamin A retinol, the most pure and bioavailable form, I believe, exists in organ meats, correct? Organ meats are very high, liver especially.

Yeah. And then cod liver oil would probably be a very close second. So then we come down to your uric acid. It's a very enviable 3.8. So my theory about that, I didn't recall the hemochromatosis. So my theory about uric acid driving the higher doesn't apply. Interesting. Okay.

So if someone didn't have hemochromatosis, what would the uric acid, how would that affect their iron? Well, there are several studies done out of China in the last five to seven years. And what they found is that elevated uric acid disrupts the recycling system. And it causes elevations of hemoglobin and serum iron and percent saturation. So again, it's correlation. I'm not sure that they know the actual causal relationship, but you want to keep your uric acid where it is. That's a really rock solid. And what I should also point out to the folks is everyone fixates on the reference ranges, please throw those out. Don't even pay attention to those. What we look for in the RCP is between four and five. And that's a really, your 3.8 is a very strong indication. If it was 2.8, then I'd be worried that maybe you weren't excreting enough.

Low uric acid is connected to neurodegeneration. And if we had a two-hour block, I could explain what that's all about. But the important thing is you're where you need to be for the uric acid. I have been a longtime supporter and lover of Organifi, and I'm so excited to announce that they are rolling out a special product line just for kids. They're committed to delivering the same level of quality nutrition and a yummy experience even picky kiddos will love. To kick off this line, they're going to be launching a Kids Greens called Easy Greens, as well as an immunity product called protect the kids greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that

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I learned in school that we do not want to go by that reference range because the reference range is becoming broader and broader based on our society who's very sick. We have a population of about 12% metabolically healthy right now. So when you take a reference range, it's essentially an average of the overall population. And when you have a really sick overall population, you don't want to go for the average because that means that you're part of that, you know, the, what is that? So like the nine or the, sorry, the 88% that's metabolically unhealthy. Exactly. Yep. Okay.

So let's say like, where would someone find a healthier reference range for all of you? I mean, that's kind of a broad asking statement for everything, but... There are a lot of functional doctors that have recommended markers, recommended levels. We have them within the root cause protocol. The RCPCs, the consultants all use the targets that we've... You know, over the years, you begin to amass quite a collection. And so I don't really believe so much in ranges as I do a number. You know, here's an example. Body temperature could be anywhere from 92 to 108.

Well, those bookends will kill you. So 98.6 is what we strive for. There are markers where you can be very precise about the value for each individual blood marker. And I think the body is always looking for a sweet spot. It's not looking for a range that you could drive a Mack truck through sideways. So what about this? Oh, I don't even know how to say this. Ceruloplasm. There you go. Okay. So that word appears a thousand times in this book. And try saying it a thousand times. By the end of the book, I was like, the tongue was all worn out. But ceruloplasmin is the copper protein that is the master antioxidant in our body. So we have a master antioxidant in the body called ceruloplasmin, master antioxidant in the cell called glutathione, master antioxidant in the

mitochondria called melatonin. Well, all three of those require copper to make them work. Oh, wait, melatonin is a master antioxidant of what? The mitochondria. You can't make melatonin without serotonin. You can't make serotonin without copper and you can't flip serotonin into melatonin without copper again. So I always heard that glutathione was the master antioxidant, but I didn't know that there were different silos for this. So glutathione is a master antioxidant for what? Mitochondria.

No, melatonin for mitochondria, correct? Oh, sorry. Yeah, melatonin is mitochondria. Glutathione is cell. And copper is? Ceruloplasmin is the body. Okay, so sorry. Continue. I just had never heard that. That's fascinating the body. Okay, so sorry, continue.

I just had never heard that. That's fascinating. God, I learned so much from you. I love this. Yeah, I'm glad. So then we come to, so we have this master antioxidant protein that expresses different antioxidant enzyme functions.

It's a very important concept that's not taught in any doctor school. So what I look for is the ratio of copper to ceruloplasmin. The ideal for copper is 100. The ideal for ceruloplasmin is 30. These numbers were developed by a famous team of biologists who did their work in a Bell Laboratory, AT&T Bell Labs in upstate New York in the 1960s. Why were they studying human metal nutrition in an AT&T lab? I've always wondered that. But the point is- I was wondering the same thing. Yeah. So 106 divided by 24, let's back up. 100 divided by 30 is 3.33. That's the sweet spot.

That's ideal copper to ceruloplasmin. Yours is 106 divided by 24, and the number is 4.42, 442. Now you got to think logarithmically on this one, Courtney. So it's not an ordinal, oh yeah, 4.42 is pretty close to 3.33. If we were going logarithmic, if we were talking about earthquakes, your copper to ceruloplasmin is 10 times higher than it should be. What that tells us is you have some level of inflammation in your body. And again, it makes sense to me given how much iron is in your blood. Iron is not your friend. Iron needs to be very carefully regulated. And so your percent saturation was just slightly higher than I like to see it. I'd really like to see it closer to 20 to 25.

You're at 35. Your iron was a little higher than ideal. Again, it's just what we're looking for here is just subtle indications of imbalance, subtle indications of metabolic stress. That's what we're really looking for in this process. So then everyone fixates on the zinc copper ratio, which is irrelevant. And that's the work of a famous psychiatrist named Carl Pfeiffer. He was a PhD before he became an MD. And he was a principal in the MKUltra program in the CIA. That should make people a little nervous right now.

And so he's the guy who started talking about zinc-copper ratios in the 1960s. Prior to that, all of the great scientists were talking about copper iron ratios they weren't worrying about zinc zinc wasn't even on the radar so all this preoccupation with zinc is a modern phenomenon designed to distract us and it's working wonders because everyone's worried about their zinc levels and your zinc is on the low side right and the reason why it's on the low side is that there's probably a good chance that you've had a low copper diet during your life and that there's been a buildup of iron in your liver especially with a condition called hemochromatosis.

The curious Georgian you should go to a ferro scan center and get a liver scan and find out how much iron you have and how much fat deposits you have in your liver. You have a noteworthy genetic mutation that disrupts iron metabolism and fat metabolism. And it would just be good for you to know that and to be monitoring that. Again, it's like you've got a thorn in your heel and you want to be mindful of it and try to get that thorn out. What's important to know is that as iron builds in the liver, it's going to cause magnesium loss in the liver. And the mistake that functional doctors make all the time is when they see a low ferritin, assuming you see a low zinc, they'll recommend zinc supplementation,

not giving a thought to the fact that zinc supplements are going to block copper uptake. They won't even think about that. And what happens when people start doing the RCPC or the root cause protocol, when they start doing that, they start to regulate the copper iron and their zinc levels rise without taking supplements. So the body will correct itself. It doesn't always need a supplement to do it. What's happening is the liver is taking zinc when in fact it would prefer magnesium, but they're the same valence. And so it's grabbing the zinc, making it look low in the blood,

and that's affecting that panel, that part of the panel. Interesting. Even if I'm, because I'm taking a magnesium supplement right now, I take Bioptimizers, the magnesium breakthrough that has all seven forms of magnesium. That's great. But your magnesium at the bottom of the page is 5.4 and the range is up to seven. I would like to see people at a 6.5. Given your condition, 5.4 is actually pretty good. And I bet half my clients that I've worked with would give their left arm to have a number that high because most of them are in the fours. Wow. Well, maybe get them on magnesium breakthrough because it seems to be working. Shout out to Bioptimizers that's great so then we come to ferritin and we're back to the teacup right but the teacup is only inside the cell it's not in the blood but the good news is your

ferritin is spot on it's right where i like to see. The difficulty we have is that when it gets above 150 for a woman or 300 for a man, we know we have raging levels of inflammation in the liver. And the easiest way to rectify that is do a phlebotomy and get on the root cause protocol. When it gets below 20, we'll start to come off the track. And doctors are trained to say say you need more iron. When in fact, I think what it's really revealing, I think what ferritin is telling us is, is the spleen running low to overheated? That's really what I think it's telling us. It's an inflammatory marker. It's not an iron marker. And that's a very critical thing to say. But too many mistakes are being made around low ferritin, people who have

normal hemoglobin, normal serum iron, and they're being told that their iron stores are low and you need more iron. And that is not true at all all and in fact your hemoglobin is 13.8 which is exactly where it should be it's ideally a woman should be between 12.5 and 13.5 you're just you know a couple hairs above and it's interesting your your hemoglobin was higher than that you were in the male range 14.5 to 15..5, and now it's down into the midpoint. It's within the range of the woman's range. I wonder why that was up. What would that mean that I was up with hemoglobin previously?

Again, we don't know what your uric acid was before. We know what it is now. It could have been elevated. And when was that prior study done, the previous blood test? June 7th. So you know what that was? That was the function health test that I did. Yeah. Okay. Where they did an extensive blood work, but it looks like it's strange that they didn't do uric acid. But anyways. And so then the one we haven't talked about, we alluded to it before. I predicted your transferrin would be around 27. It's actually almost, it comes out as a three-digit number, 287. I moved the decimal point over so I can compare it to ceruloplasmin. The good news is that you're close. Those numbers are both supposed to be 30. And so your ceruloplasma is 24. Mm-hmm. 24. Okay. And so you're saying for the transferrin, you move it over once,

it'd be 28.7 to compare it to ceruloplasma. Right. And so what, again, not knowing all the details of your supplement routine, not knowing all the other factors. Your transferrin is actually pretty good, given what's going on. It's very close to 30. And your ceruloplasmin is less than that. And as fate would have it, this is a very wicked development, but in a low copper diet,

someone eating a low copper diet, which most of us were raised on in this country, pretty much around the world now, but a low copper diet will generate a high iron liver. Again, especially someone with hemochromatosis and guess where the iron accumulates in the lobe of the liver where ceruloplasmin is made that's a wicked wicked place for it and so all the more reason to do a scan to find out where your iron is. And you'd be a great candidate for castor oil packs over your liver area. Alternate liver and spleen side to side. And I would definitely be on the protocol. I would definitely be taking copper supplements.

And you just want to know that your body will respond to stimulus because it will. Are we going to change your hemochromatosis gene? I don't know that we will. What we can do is regulate the byproduct of that dysfunction on a regular basis. So you were saying that my copper is 10 times higher than it should be, basically indicating that I probably have too much iron in the blood, correct? Well, what I was saying is the ratio of copper to ceruloplasma was 4.42. Ideal is 3.33. And I'm encouraging people not to look at it at an ordinal mathematical level, look at it on a logarithmic level. And so 4.42 is 10 times higher. And when I see that, typically what that means is the body is dealing with

inflammation. There's always some level of inflammation in our body, some level of inefficiency, but especially in a body that has hemoconitosis, there's a greater likelihood that that's taking place. And what I referenced was your serum iron was 20% higher than ideal. That could be just enough to stimulate that inflammatory process. So essentially the solution for all of this would be to start supplementing with copper, correct? Well, the foundation would be the protocol overall.

The goal is there's a whole series of stops, whole series of starts, but the whole focus is to make more bioavailable copper, which requires retinol, right? Vitamin A, retinol, got to have whole food vitamin C, got to have good source of B vitamins, got to have a good source of copper, which is what recuperates about magnesium. And there's about a dozen different nutrients that we look at. And it's a great leveler to bring the body back into balance. Your blood test reveals you're not broken, but you are out of balance. And the whole goal here is to gently bring the body back into balance as best you can, given that you have this genetic issue as part of your dynamic. Amazing. So one way to bring up my vitamin A retinol would be eat organ meats, do cod liver

oil. So I'm about to be traveling in Europe for three weeks and there's no way I'm going to be able to bring cod liver oil with me on that. Is there a supplement that you would suggest just while I'm traveling until I get back? Well, again, the folks at Formula Q have a cod liver supplement. Oh, they have a supplement. Great. Yeah, yeah. And what you're going to find in Europe is an understanding of the rcp intuitively the the mediterranean diet

is basically the rcp the nutrient focus of the mediterranean diet places where you'll be hanging out will have nutrient-dense food and that's what you want to do would be eating locally eating seasonally, eating nutrient dense foods, eating organ meats where you can. They know what butter is. They know what bone marrow is. They know what cod liver is and they won't be at all surprised by you asking for that. Okay. And then you mentioned protocol overall. Where do I find that? Just on your website? It's on the website, rcp123.org. It's in the book, The Curious Fatigue. You can go to that website, rcp123. And when you donate your email, which we will respect and protect, we will send you a 50-page document with the protocol.

Then if you go to Formula IQ, they also have a version of it. It's a very impressive, glitzy, lots of color outline of the protocol as well, the stops and the starts. Okay. This is amazing. This was so helpful. I learned so much. Is there anything else that you want to add or anything maybe that I didn't ask that is important for people to know before we go? I think what's important for people to know is that this is a very different paradigm of healing based on energy and we ignore enemies. We don't worry about the pathogens we don't worry about the toxins we don't worry about detox because when the body has energy the body knows exactly what to do the body has a blueprint but the blueprint requires energy and what we're what the sole focus of the protocol is is to generate using right nutrients, allow the body to generate energy to run that blueprint.

I think what might be an interesting focus going forward, to the extent that we can have another conversation, would be to answer the questions that I'm sure many of your listeners had when they heard this information. Because this is a very disruptive outline of new information that people have never heard before. And it's not Morley's opinion. It's a compendium of research that has driven my understanding of what's really going on inside the body. And it's helping a lot of people around the planet. So that's really what's driving me. And I happen to befriend a film producer who, unbeknownst to me, has struggled with both depression and type 2 diabetes for much of his adult life. And long story short, got invited into a film that he was doing, heard me speak. He said, would this protocol help me? I said, well, there's only one

way to find out. And he's like Spider-Man now. He said, I've got so much energy. He said, the fog has lifted. He said, I feel like I have control over my blood sugars for the first time in my life. And now he wants to do a full-length documentary on bioavailable copper to help spread the word. So this is, you know, it's music to my ears, but I think it's important for people to realize that there is a wisdom in our body. It responds to energy and knows what to do. And we've been trained by the system to think we're broken and we're not. We're just, you know, we're underfunded with the right nutrients. Oh, that's so amazing. That's such a great thing to end on. I was on a trip this last weekend and one of the women on the trip, we ended up sitting next to each other at breakfast and she goes,

Courtney, that episode with Morley Robbins completely changed my life. She was like, I was dealing with so much fatigue, so much brain fog. I could barely function. And she was like, I could not figure out what was going on. I was eating so healthy. I'm on my diet. I'm on my supplements and all this stuff. And she said that she immediately bought your book when she listened to the podcast. She said that she got it on audio too. And she just like devoured it in like a week and said that it changed her life. She was like, I feel so much better. I'm on all the supplements. I'm doing the protocol that he suggested. And so I just wanted to share that. Out of 100 people, what typically will happen is two or three will have that kind of experience. It'll click.

They'll act on it. It'll change their life. And the other 97 people, it's too simple. It doesn't jive with what I know. And so it's a constant process to try to reach more of the twosies, threesies, and hope that the other 97 will wake up because the body is amazing. And we've been led down a very primrose path of disinformation to believe that it's broken. And it's not. And it really does respond to stimulus, but it's got to be the right stimulus. And people don't realize that the internet's telling you to go left when in fact you should go right. And that's where the conflict is.

People don't realize that the recommendations are flawed. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, a lot of this challenges people's core beliefs and it really requires an open mind and an understanding that maybe we've got some of this wrong and that's okay. And also just to, right. And then also just to know too, that our bodies want to be healthy. And I think it's so important that you bring that up, that we're taught, we're conditioned like, oh, you know, things just break, you age and we're just kind of broken. And like, that's it. You're just giving me a medication for life. And we could not, that could not be further from the truth. Our bodies want to be healthy and they can function correctly when given the right tools and, you know, the right protocols and certain health modalities.

We're here, our body is here to make energy. It's why it exists. And we're here our body is here to make energy it's why it exists and we're supposed to use that energy to get our work done to solve the puzzles of our life whatever is your the puzzles for you are different than the puzzles for me but we're here to solve those puzzles and it takes energy and and discernment and intellect and reflection. And you got to have energy to do all that. So true. Well, I think it's a great way to end on the podcast. Please let people know where they can find you, where they can find your book, and just any sort of links you want to drop. And then just know, everyone, we're going to put those in the show notes as well. Yeah. Again, whoever's selling books, Amazon, Abe, Barnes, whoever, get it online.

You can get a physical, e-book, and audio. I really recommend people get the physical and the audio. There's a certain chemistry that comes with that. The website, rcp123.org. Social media, we're on Instagram, Facebook, it's either magnesium advocacy group or the RCP page. Or MailIQ, again, I would encourage people to pursue that. I think it's a wonderful site that has the goodies

and has the recuperate that I think people really desperately need. And then for people who want to reach out, I'm always happy to share my email address, morleyrobbins at gmail.com. And my phone number, which always freaks out the podcasters, is 847-922-8061. People are very respectful about that. And I always enjoy the calls that come my way. And invariably, they are just, they're life-changing for both of us. So I appreciate people using their judgment to make those calls. Oh, Morley, you're so amazing. I really appreciate it because, you know, you can tell you really care and that you really want to help people. You know, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. This is my life's work. And I, real quick, the reason why I'm here is to help people overcome their physical ailments so they can get on with their life's work.

Yeah, that's amazing. Also, I do want to note, so you mentioned that you'd be down to come back. So anyone listening, if you have specific questions based off of what we talked about today, if you're okay with this, Morley. Oh, absolutely.

I do it all the time. I love it. Great. If you guys want to DM me those questions, I'll collect them and then I'll get with Morley about doing another episode where we answer all those questions. So'll collect them and then I'll get with Morley about doing another episode where we answer all those questions.

So ask away. Cool. Thanks. Thanks so much for coming on. This was such a great episode. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode

of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resonant media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry.

The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist.

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