Realfoodology - Ketamine Assisted Therapy: The Next Level of Healing with Dr. Mike Dow

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

120: **REALFOODOLOGY PODCAST IS NOW ON YOUTUBE!** On today's episode, we talk all things Ketamine Therapy with Dr. Mike Dow of Field Trip Health.  He is a Psychotherapist and Best Selling Author; his latest book is “The Sugar Brain Fix.” At Field Trip, they offer ketamine assisted psychotherapy to help people work through negative thought patterns, depression, anxiety, coping skills and trauma.   Topics Covered: What is Ketamine Therapy? How long does Ketamine Therapy last? Does Ketamine Therapy replace all other types of therapy? Why Ketamine needs to be taken with the help of licensed professionals  Neuroplasticity Neurotransmitters The ego  Ketamine and the subconscious  Why Ketamine works better than SSRI’s Process of Ketamine Therapy Experiences that people have had with Ketamine Therapy Risks of Ketamine Who should and should not take Ketamine Side effects of Ketamine Therapy CBT Why we need to pay attention to brain inflammation  Seed oils and processed foods Check out Dr. Mike Dow: Online Books Field Trip Health Pre Order His New Book: The Ketamine Breakthrough Sponsored By: BiOptimizers: Magnesium Breakthrough www.magbreakthrough.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 10% off any order Higher Dose higherdose.com use code REALFOODOLOGY FOR 15% OFF SITEWIDE Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Check Out Courtney: **REALFOODOLOGY PODCAST IS NOW ON YOUTUBE!** Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier  AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening: Psychedelic Therapy with Ronan Levy

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. In Jungian therapy, a lot of times you'll bring your dreams to your Jungian therapist for dream analysis. And the Jungian therapist will help you to look at the archetypes and help you to interpret those dreams. But you've got to wait for the dreams to happen and then come into the office. Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy is like, you're going to dream right in front of me. You, Courtney, are in a room with me. We're going to give you a little shot and you're going to dream right in front of me. You, Courtney, are in a room with me. We're going to give you a little shot and you're going to start dreaming. And now we can interpret that dream as soon as you come out of it. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast.

Today's episode is epic. This is something that I personally, in my own life, have been getting very into. I'm very intrigued by the research that's coming out right now about ketamine. And I have been diving into personal ketamine therapy myself. And it has been profound. It really has. It's truly been life changing. And as always, I love to share the modalities that I do in my own life that help me in hopes that they will also help you. I talked to Dr. Mike Dow. He is a field trip health psychotherapist and also New York Times bestselling author. And if you're wondering what the heck is field trips, so field trip offers pedicure and assisted psychotherapy.

And what I love so much about this is they take a holistic approach to healing, tackling not just symptoms, but also the negative thought patterns, lifestyle factors, trauma, coping skills, and chemical systems in the brain, allowing it to be a highly effective treatment where other treatments have failed in the past. We dive into everything that you can expect in a ketamine-assisted therapy session, more specifically what you can expect with field trip, but also just in general, if you are at all interested in ketamine assisted therapy, we dive into the science behind it, why ketamine is getting so much attention right now and how it can be really healing for mental disorders, especially people struggling with depression, anxiety, traumas that they are otherwise not able to face or heal in other therapeutic modalities.

You guys know me. I love practicing root cause treatments. And that's exactly what ketamine is. It really helps you to get to the root cause that's underlying your anxiety, your depression, whatever it is that someone is dealing with. It really helps you to get just to that inner core and root of your symptoms and what really is going on. And I've found in my own life, what's so cool, I've shared this in the episode, so I don't want to go too deep into it. I just want you to listen to the episode, but it allows you to see the things that

are coming up and things that you're dealing with in your life through a lens of love and really takes the emotion out of it and gives you really, really deep clarity that I have not ever been able to achieve outside of doing this ketamine-assisted therapy. It really has been profound for me and my healing journey. If you guys are unaware of my past and what I've been dealing with, I have a couple episodes where I talk about this, the loss of my sister at a very young age. My sister died when I was eight. She was six in a really traumatic accident. And I have spent most of my adult life trying to move through and heal the trauma of that that happened to me as a child. And this is one of the modalities that has really, really, really helped me a lot. It's also just helped me to get out of my own way and see myself in a different light

and really get clarity on things that I have been working on in my own life. Before we get into the episode, I just want to ask a favor of you guys. If you could take a moment to rate and review the podcast, it would help me out so, so much. It really helps the show out and I appreciate your support more than I can even say. So thank you so much. And thank you for listening. I always get asked, how can you support the podcast? Another great way that you can support the podcast is by buying the products and using the codes from the sponsors that I have on the show. I very carefully curate the sponsors for the show. And they're only

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and use code REALFOODOLOGY and you're going to save 15%. Mike, thank you so much for coming on today. I'm so excited to dive into ketamine therapy with you. This is something that I have really been diving into in my own personal life in the last couple months. And I am astounded by all the research coming out right now. Yeah, it's absolutely remarkable. I'm obsessed with it. I've been in mental health for over a decade. I've worked for the Department of Mental Health. I've been in mental health for over a decade.

I've worked for the Department of Mental Health. I've been in private practice and nothing has blown my mind more than the results that I'm getting with my patients with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy at Fieldtrip Health. So I can't wait to talk about it. Wow, that's so cool. How did you get started? How did you discover ketamine and get into this world? So, you know, I'm a New York Times bestselling author. All of my books are about brain health. So the brain fog fix, the sugar brain fix, healing the broken brain, you get the idea, and five others. And of course, you know, in researching my books, I'm always looking for the latest and greatest research. And I just kept reading study after study after study. And I wasn't really a psychonaut.

I wasn't really somebody who was a hardcore Burning Man type or anything like that. But I just was blown away by the research. It almost seemed too good to be true. So, of course, I had to go to the training. And my husband, who's an ER doctor, him and I went to the training together. So it's this week-long immersion with 30 other doctors. and you're having this experiential training. And it was just, wow, like jaw dropping to the floor in days one and two, hearing things that just blew my mind, you know, these other doctors having these experiences. There was this physician who said

that she did, she'd been in therapy for her entire life. She was probably in her 40s or 50s to forgive her biological mother for giving her up for adoption and all the trauma that that caused her. And she said, I think in this one session, I got the spiritual aha moment that I needed to actually forgive her and move on. So it's not that it replaced her ongoing therapy,

but it's like that next level of healing that some people really need, even if you're already doing all this existing work, meditation and yoga and tapping and cryotherapy, right? Which are all complimentary practices. But for some people, this is it. And in our research, we're seeing that over 95% of the people who come to us for depression and anxiety are experiencing relief. And we don't see those numbers in mental health, right? We just don't see them. And we're seeing it with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. Wow. And are we seeing long-lasting effects? So when people go through this ketamine therapy, are we seeing it last long-term as far

as depression, anxiety? That's the best question. So around 2000 is when they discovered that, hey, this old anesthetic that's been around for 60 years is a really potent antidepressant. So they started to do studies with a single dose around 2000, but it only lasted like 24 or 48 hours. Then they discovered, hey, if we stack six of those sessions within maybe let's say two to four weeks, say we just sort of have a lot of sessions close together, it's much more robust. So now you're getting this significant reduction in depression and anxiety, but then it's lasting about a month. But then, and this is where it gets really exciting, when you combine the power of this incredible medicine, ketamine,

with psychotherapy, we are finding at Fieldtrip that the results aren't lasting 30 days as they do with just ketamine alone. They're lasting three to four months. So isn't it remarkable that you have this medicine that takes you into this space where you can reprocess trauma. You can have these transcendental experiences. So it gives you this ultimate reframe, right? Like in cognitive behavioral therapy, we can make these mini reframes like, okay, that's an irrational thought. Let's see if we can look at this in a different way. And we're sort of like just trying to adjust you 10%. But when you have this experience that all is one, that we're all connected, that you're a single point of consciousness, that love is the ultimate reality, well, that's not a 5% to 10%

reframe. That's like a 180 for some people, right? So it's like this hard reset, and it does all these other exciting things in the brain, right? It increases neuroplasticity. So it allows you to make new changes and new behaviors in your life that correlate with neural pathways, right? It deactivates the default mode network. So it sort of turns down what we refer to as the ego so you can feel more connected. So if you have a therapist who really knows how to utilize this magic of this medicine, there are so many things that are possible and it really gets people motivated in their lives with these reframes and a reduction in symptoms and more brain cells being created. It's just really, really exciting. Yeah, it's fascinating. I love that you

referred to it as magic. So that's exactly what you were just explaining is the experience that I've had. I've found that what happens on ketamine is you get real clarity around either situations you're dealing with or a traumatic experience in your past without all the emotion attached to it so that you can withdraw from it and just look at it from almost like from an outsider's perspective. And I've found that when I have that outsider's perspective, it gives me this insane sense of clarity. And then that reframe that you're talking about, that, you know, I can tell myself these things all day long. But then there's something about the reframe that happens on Ketamine where it feels like it clicks. And you're like, oh, yes.

Okay, now it makes sense. Yes, that, right? Like a reboot. And, you know, I don't know about you, but there have been several situations in my life where it's like, there is some part of me in the background that's like, OK, I need to let this go. Like, I didn't get this job. My ego is bruised and wounded. And I know I should let it go, but I can't.

Right. Like, I'm just I'm fixated. And in a way, ketamine helps you to zoom out and sort of you lose the subjectivity and you gain some objectivity. And when you sort of zoom out, you're like, oh, why am I making such a big deal out of this? So it allows us, as you just said, to let go of some of the resentments or the limiting beliefs that hold us all back. Yeah, exactly. And that's why I'm so excited about ketamine. And I've also at least found anecdotally in my own life that there is this lasting effect

that's been happening. It's been slowly happening over time, but with that reframe in the beginning, it felt like I was only getting in touch with that reframe when I was in these sessions. But as I've done more, I've started noticing that it's been trickling into my everyday life. And that's where those neural pathways I think are being changed. And do you have any practices that allow you to sort of access that ketamine space or an approximation of it? Like, do you have like a meditation practice or time in nature? And do you find that you can sort of almost shortcut your way to those ketamine spaces again? Oh, you mean like when I'm not doing ketamine? Yeah. Yes. Yes. So that's what

I've started doing. That's why I started implementing is in my morning routine, I do this little meditation. And I try to take myself back to those places that I've been when I've been in ketamine therapy. And as I said, I've slowly been able to implement it more in my everyday life. I have the same personal experience. I am a transcendental meditation practitioner. And before my ketamine experience, it felt hard and I can sort of get there. But after my ketamine therapy of my own, it really allowed me to sort of just drop in and go way deeper. And it's almost like ketamine provided me with the training wheels to sort of be in that oceanic state of consciousness. It's like, oh, I know how to get there now, right? It's sort of

almost teaching the brain how to do that. Yeah. Oh, it's so cool. Well, and that's why I wanted to do this episode with you because I've heard you talk about this on other podcasts and I love how passionate you are and the way you speak about this. And I believe that there's still a really big stigma around ketamine. A lot of people see it as this like street party drug

or something that you give to patients in the ER. Like there's not really, there's starting to be a lot of conversation. I feel like especially in LA, but like, for example, my friends in Texas are like, I'm sorry, what? You're doing ketamine? Like, should we be worried about you? The K-hole or isn't that a horse tranquilizer? Those are the two most common myths. Well, it can be used. It can be abused, right? So you don't want to be taking ketamine recreationally personally. The idea of being, I don't know, in a dance club and then losing the ability to know where you are and how your body feels and

you're leaving your body in a public place, that to me sounds frightening. So if you've ever had that experience in the 90s or maybe even last year of doing ketamine recreationally, it's a very, very different experience. Like any medicine, right? Like alcohol, like exercise. Exercise is generally a good thing, but people who exercise for six hours a day, that is no longer doing their body good. That's actually harming their body, right? Especially when it's part of an eating disorder or body dysmorphia. And by the same token, we have now discovered the dose and the frequency that makes your brain better. So yes, if you do ketamine recreationally every weekend, like somebody who is eating Domino's

pizza for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, that's really not good for your body or exercising for eight hours a day. But in the doses and the frequency that we give it, it actually makes your brain better. It's making more BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor. It's helping your brain to make new brain cells. It encourages neuroplasticity, new connections, which can enhance creativity and a new way of looking at things. It increases by targeting glutamate, which is the most abundant excitatory, meaning turning on neurotransmitter. It sort of has this trickle-down effect for all these other feel-good neurotransmitters like serotonin, GABA, and dopamine. Levels of all three of those rise after ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. So it's the, oh, I see. So when we use this in the right way, it can actually not be a party drug.

It can make the brain better. And yes, it is used in veterinary medicine, but by the way, so are so many drugs. So this idea that like, oh, well, that's a horse tranquilizer. Well, sure, it can tranquilize an animal, a dog, a horse, a human being who comes into the ER who either, you know, in the ER, oftentimes it's either a child who needs a painful procedure done immediately, or some ER doctors are using it to sedate a patient who is, you know, coming in on, you know, in mania caused by, you know, stimulants or something like that. You can use it to sort of quickly put somebody out. We're not using in that dose, so we're not using it to put you out. But yes, a lot of medications are used in both animals and humans, but it was designed

for use in humans. Yeah. And that's a really important distinction for people to hear and to make. I've talked about this before. It's so funny when people make that argument. Well, this is a veterinarian drug. I'm like, well, most drugs are used for both pets and humans. So that's not really a valid argument. I'm curious to know, so you talked about this a little bit, but what exactly is happening in the brain and the neural pathways and neuroplasticity and how is this helping us from a mental health standpoint? Yeah. So there's something called the default mode network. So when you think about the word default, that's exactly what it is. It's what your brain defaults to when

you're not doing anything. So when you and I are having this conversation or I'm doing an Excel spreadsheet, it's very task orientedoriented. And the sort of connection of the brain regions that are talking to each other, it looks one way. And then when it's at rest, it sort of looks the other way. Now, that's interesting because the default mode network is very overactive in people who ruminate, in people who are very lonely. And it's sort of like this me, me, me network. It's always like thinking about myself. It's a very selfish sort of network, right? Because that's how human beings experience life in the world.

But what happens is we can get so locked into this ego in the way that I work, what I would call the parts of the ego, right? Like the inner critic that's always like talking smack to myself about myself and telling me things that are just holding me back. And sometimes before ketamine-assisted therapy, people misidentify that part of the ego as themselves. And they don't realize that that's just like one little voice. So when you sort of

zoom out and you deactivate that default mode network where most of the parts of the ego are, so there's sort of this, so we're talking about the brain, but also the mind. So neurologically from a brain physical POV, we're deactivating the default mode network, which allows us to have these very expansive connected experiences. Ketamine is also a mild and pathogen, meaning it helps you to open your heart and put down defenses. It's also, I found, a really

potent activator of the subconscious. So if you have something that is deep in your subconscious that you don't want to look at, it's like your ego can do all of these tricks. You can rationalize it. You can deny it. You can repress it. You can project it onto other people. But there's probably some deep part of you that knows exactly what your issue is. So one of the techniques that I will often use with people is when they're sort of in that crossover state, when, you know, sometimes I'll give them a low dose to start and then a higher dose 15 minutes later. Sometimes in that low dose state, I'll do a visualization and I'll say, and there is this part of you that has always been there that knows what is in your best and highest

good or your best interests. And now you're coming face to face with it. And it's going to tell you what is at the root of your current problems. And now listen very carefully. And with ketamine on board, it's like all your defenses are down. All of those issues from the subconscious start to bubble up very similar to clinical hypnosis or these other non-ordinary states of consciousness. And you can sort of acknowledge it and look at it, not from this defended way where the ego is trying to sort of manage it or self-medicate it or not look at it or deny it. You're like, oh, right, this is coming from this or this is coming from that.

And then in a really kind and compassionate way, you can say, okay, now what do I want to do about that? Do I need to reprocess something that happened to me like a trauma? Do I need to change my daily behavior? Do I need to change the way that I talk to myself? So when you look at the way that it can really change everything, especially for people who've got a really nasty inner critic or who don't have self-confidence or who had a traumatic event and that traumatic event really affected so many things in their lives. It's just remarkable. Yeah, it is remarkable. and when you think about the changing those neural pathways when you're able to go into that subconscious and rewire those things that you're telling yourself um then hopefully the

hope over time is that then it becomes part of your conscious mind as well which is something that i was saying earlier that has really been helpful for me i'm one of those people that you mentioned that's like the the ruminate me me me, me, like not in like a narcissist way, but just in like a, oh my God, what did I do wrong? Or like, how did I do this wrong? And actually like the last couple of years and more recently since I've been getting into like psilocybin and ketamine, I've noticed that that has been rewiring for me. And what's so cool is there's that empathetic heart opening aspect of it that you mentioned that I love this so much. Every single person that has a ketamine experience or psilocybin experience always comes out with a similar message, which is we're all connected and

we're all love and we just want to be loved and we want to love. And it sounds so simple, but when you experience that in that kind of like conscious spiritual level, it feels, I mean, it feels overwhelming in the best way possible. And you come out of it just feeling so much love for everyone and you just wanna be loved, which sounds so like cheesy, but I think this is how we heal people.

It is. And especially for people who don't have that kind of experience. So I'm a very spiritual person. My husband is probably more rational, which is probably why I went to psychology school and he went to medical school. But, you know, what's really fascinating is in our ketamine training when, you know, because the ketamine training is experiential, you've got to take the medicine. He had his very first spiritual experience. So it's one thing to read a book, right?

It's one thing to, you know, even maybe in a religious tradition, it's like, well, what do you believe? Well, this because your ancestors said so, right? Which is fine. And if you have that religious belief, that's fine. But wouldn't it also be nice to have an experience where you feel it? And I'm a feeler. When you sort of analyze the verbs that I use, especially in session, it's like, I sense, it feels, Courtney, like I can feel your love and I see and experience you as this warm, radiant being. And that's absolutely true. And if you're that kind

of person, this medicine is wonderful for you. And if you're not, it can help you to have that experience where it's like, oh, that's what all those woo-woo people were talking about. I mean, it's so true. Because I used to feel that way when I would hear people say the things that just came out of my mouth. I hate to admit this, but I would kind of like, you know, roll my eyes a little bit and be like, yeah, yeah, it sounds a little too like woo woo for me. But now that I've experienced it, and I've had this really intense spiritual experience with it. Yeah, it's like you can't even describe it to people until they experience it for themselves. And I want everyone to experience it because it is so life-changing. It is.

Yeah. You know, I think it could help most people. So at Fieldtrip, you know, we, yes, have to have a diagnosis, but unlike the FDA-approved form of ketamine, which, by the way, is a very, very weak form of ketamine at a very, very low dose, and you have to be on another prescription antidepressant.

You have to go take it every single week indefinitely in a doctor's office. You can't take it home and you don't get the psychedelic experience. On the other hand, ours is really leading into all of those spiritual transcendent experiences. And you don't have to have a treatment resistant. Well, at Fieldtrip, we treat a lot of people who have treatment resistant depression. So they've tried and failed other treatments, but you don't have to. So we have a lot of people who choose to stay on their prescription antidepressants. We have a lot of people that this is so much more effective than prescription antidepressants without the side effects of weight gain, sexual side effects,

and that emotional blunting that a lot of people on SSRIs experience. So a lot of times they can actually get off their SSRIs if they want to. But unlike other psychedelics, the nice thing is that ketamine is very compatible with most treatments. So classical psychedelics, sometimes you've got to be careful because it's working at the serotonin receptor. So if you're on an SSRI, sometimes that can be dangerous to mix. But because ketamine is in this very strange class, it's not a classical psychedelic. It does some things that are similar to psilocybin, right? So both medicines deactivate the default mode network, both enhance new connections in the brain. But because ketamine is working on glutamate, you can still stay on a lot of those very popular

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properties that are super supportive for our health and they just flood your body and flood your cells with nutrients. My favorite thing about Organifi, and I know I talk about this all the time and I just, you know, consistency is the key to success here. And I just feel like I need to constantly talk about this because it is so important. Organifi products are glyphosate residue free, which means that you will not find glyphosate in any of their products. Glyphosate is a herbicide that is sprayed on non-organic food, but it's showing up in organic food now and it is linked to cancer. So we do not want it in our body. Also, all the Organifi products are USDA organic. And if you

use code realfoodology, you're going to save 20% off. So make sure that you go to organifi.com slash realfoodology. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. I hope you guys love it. So for people that are listening that are very new to this, that have never tried this, have no idea what a ketamine treatment looks like, how do you administer it? And what is the journey and the therapy and everything that you guys do look like? Yeah. So we now have two models. So we now have an at-home model and we have our in-clinic model. So obviously, as the name implies, the in-clinic model is going to be you're coming to the clinic,

you're getting a lot of support. So first, we're going to do a very quick online medical assessment. We're going to make sure that there are no contraindications. So we want to make sure people don't have uncontrolled blood pressure, mania, schizophrenia. We don't want to use ketamine in those situations and not pregnant or nursing. So there are a few contraindications, but not many. Once you're sort of cleared for treatment, then you'd be assigned a therapist. And so you and I would meet for a therapy session before that's called the preparation session. It's really preparing you and setting your intention and starting to talk about your goals. And one of the things that I do in my preparation sessions is I introduce this concept of the ego versus the self with a capital S. So already I'm introducing this lingo, this framework that really helps people to understand

what is happening, right? So when the parts of your ego go offline, what's left? What's left is the self. And if you know that that's actually a useful part that you can work with, it really helps people when they actually have the medicine session. So the day of your first medicine session, you're going to come to one of our clinics. We're across the US, Canada, Europe. You're going to be there for about two hours in a treatment room with me. You're going to get a quick little painless injection. So unlike IV ketamine clinics, which are way more popular, there are way more of those than ketamine assisted psychotherapy clinics like Fieldtrip. You're going to have somebody with you the whole

time and you don't have to have a needle in your arm the whole time because the IV clinics, they're just giving you like a little bit of, they're giving you a drip. So it's like the ketamine state, it's sort of flat, right? It's sort of like through 45 minutes or so, they're just sort of delivering a little bit of medicine at a time. The nice thing about the way we do it with an intramuscular injection is you're getting all the medicine up front, which means that instead of like this,

you're never really leaving. You're sort of in this mid zone. It sort of blasts you off into that psychedelic space. Or the other thing that we do that's different, we don't base your dose on your weight. We really talk to you, like, how are you feeling? So if you, somebody like you said, I've had great experiences with psilocybin and ketamine, we could probably blast you off if you want to. If you're somebody who's really nervous, what we're going to do, we're not going to blast

you off. We can actually divide the dose. So instead of giving you one big dose, we can give you two smaller doses. And in that smaller dose, it also provides the opportunity for trauma reprocessing. So when I have somebody who says, you know, I have this really significant physical or sexual abuse history from childhood, I don't want to give that person a huge dose. And I've had a lot of anecdotal case reports of people who are in that boat and they go to an IV ketamine clinic and they're just terrified and there's no therapist with them. And you sort of lose that opportunity to reprocess. So whether you're doing a low dose and we're talking the whole time, you have a higher dose and you're just listening to this music in a zero gravity chair with a gravity blanket on you

and the eye shades, then when you sort of come out of that experience, you're going to be processing that with your therapist. You're going to do another standalone online session the next day, what we call our integration sessions. And you're going to repeat that. So you're probably going to do four or six ketamine medicine sessions within about a month. And then we move you to maintenance dosing. So to keep up the results, on average, you're just going to need one ketamine assisted therapy session every, let's say every quarter, every three or four months to retain the benefits. So it's time consuming and a little bit expensive to start, but to maintain it, it's not that time consuming or expensive. Then of course, our at-home model has therapy built in with oral ketamine that can be shipped to your home, which is great

for people who don't live in LA or New York or Chicago or Miami. If you're living in a smaller community or two hours outside of LA, then we can figure out a way to sort of mail you that ketamine and use some online therapy to really support you through that journey as well. That's so cool. So that's how I've done it is I've been given lozenges through a compounding pharmacy and been led through some like meditations and stuff. And I'm very interested in doing the field trip model though because I like the integrating with the therapy as well

because as someone who I've been in therapy, talk therapy for years, I would love to integrate the two and try that because I've only really done just the meditation with myself and then come out and had a conversation with someone that was leading the meditation, but not really like the extent of what you just described, which is very cool. It's incredible. And if you can actually set up some of this framework, you know, all of our therapists have different trainings. They're the best in the business. So, you know, I use a lot of Jungian psychology. I use a lot of internal family systems. So we're using a lot of parts work. So then if you can actually see your inner critic with a low dose of ketamine, and then you and I can actually talk about your inner critic afterwards and name her and see where she lives in the body and see what she's telling you and then actually talk to her and do all these things that after you have this

this dissociative experience that ketamine provides it's it kind of feels more real right because all of a sudden it's like oh these voices in my head i can see them so it kind of makes more sense or it can help you to do it maybe in a deeper way to actually process and talk about the different parts of you. And really allowing that self with a capital S, the part of you that stays online with ketamine work. It's like, how do you have some piece of the self always sort of in the background and having a little bit more awareness that the self is always there, even when the parts of the ego are chattering and comparing and taking you down and judging you. It's like, okay, that's just like this little part of me.

I can put her over there. And this other part of me, the self, this part of me that is connected, that is very abundant, that wants the best for all people, not just for myself, that can be kind to other peoples and also kinder to myself. Wow. And that part of you can stay online. It really makes a big difference for people. Yeah, it really does. And I've found for me personally, it's really helped me to get to know myself on a deeper level, which is something that prior to trying ketamine was what I was really trying to do,

but I could not figure out how to access those parts of myself. And once the defenses were laid down, I laid down my defenses and I was actually able to just look at things from more objective lens, then I was able to go, oh, okay, there she is, you know, and have less emotion attached to it.

And two, you're filled with so much self-love that you can only look at yourself from a lens, through a lens of love, which I found that's like so beautiful. Yeah, beautiful, life-changing, affirming. And then if one of the archetypes pops up or if you experience that party that loves yourself as like a goddess or a magician,

I can't tell you some of the things that patients tell me, right? In terms of what they experience on their journeys. And if you experience the goddess who's always been the source of love and care in your life, and if you can actually see her in a ketamine journey, then I would usually ask that patient, like, what is she telling you? Why did you see her? Because you know, that's that archetype that you saw, it's probably part of you, not something that you're viewing, right? And then the answers

that I get to your point, it's like that self-love can be so potent and so real and not a concept, but something that almost feels concrete that you've actually seen. Like, what if you could actually see, there used to be this television show, Herman's Head, like, I don't know, like in the 90s or something where like the voices in his head were played by different characters. And what if you could actually see those characters? Because a lot of times ketamine actually can help you to conceptualize or visualize and see. And you have these, quote, hallucinations. You can actually see things,

but I don't think they're just hallucinations. In my training, in my view, they are really useful parts of you that are showing up for a reason. It's so powerful. So what are some of the common experiences that people explain coming out of their sessions? Yeah. I think one of the most common things that I see on their face is awe and wonder. So it's that just sort of jaw dropping like, oh, I have a couple patients who always say, oh my gosh, this is so beautiful. And they don't remember exclaiming those things. So there's a lot of awe and wonder. Sometimes when you're crossing the bridge, there can be a little bit of confusion for

people who don't know what the psychedelic space feels like. So sometimes there's like a little, it's not fear. It's usually like an apprehension. And then usually like two minutes in, they're like, oh, I got this, right? It's just like a different way of being where like logic goes out the window. It's like you start to think in very circular patterns where it's not linear, where you're not trying to like figure something out. The job is to just relax and be in that moment and experience and meld with your experience so that you can be part of that oceanic consciousness, which is very different than the way we think. A lot of people have that very dissociative, floaty feeling, that dreamlike quality where

it's like they can no longer feel their hands. Or sometimes I'll have people touch their nose or touch their other hand. It's like, oh, okay, I'm still here, right? It's like they just really wanted to like, oh, it feels like my hands are gone because you're sort of floating out of your body. And then just a lot of stuff coming up. And I'm always amazed by how, and this is why I just believe that ketamine facilitates what you already know to be true, how whatever comes up for that person with a little bit of interpretation and a little bit of processing, it's the, oh, I get it. I know what that was

about, right? So it's like, oh, so I was on this journey and on this journey, there was this mountain and on this mountain, there are these beautiful pink clouds. And then there was this gate and I had to get through the gate. And'm like and then I would say something like you know after you come out of that state like what felt like the gate what is the gate in your life oh I know what that gate is right so then there's sometimes a lot of you can sort of connect the dots like oh okay so that feeling or that feeling tone for some what's not consistent even at similar doses some people have very uh sort of distinct imagery where it's like okay and then aphrodite was there and aphrodite was my inner goddess and then this wizard came and he gave me three balls of light and i realized that the balls

of light were love and wisdom and kindness and i had to uh eat the balls to get through the next gate and some people have these incredible, very visual experiences. Other people have like, it's a little bit more abstract. It's a little bit more like, well, I just had like these dark purples and blues and I felt like all is one. And that was really wonderful. And I had this feeling or a sense of being connected and love. And then sometimes I'll help them extract like, well, what is that love going to do for you in your life? It's like, oh, I think I needed that because I need to forgive my mother and we're estranged or whatever that is. So for some people, it's very concrete and visual. For others, it's abstract. I have a couple people who don't remember much at all. But there's this one patient I have, he can never remember anything, but he always says, I don't remember anything at all., ketamine is sort of like in Jungian therapy, a lot of times you'll bring your dreams to your

Jungian therapist for dream analysis. And the Jungian therapist will help you to look at the archetypes and help you to interpret those dreams. But you've got to like wait for the dreams to happen and then come into the office. Ketamine assisted psychotherapy is like, you're going to dream right in front of me. Like you, Courtney, are in a room with me. We're going to give you a little shot and you're going to start dreaming. And now we can interpret that dream as soon as you sort of come out of it slowly, right?

So it's sort of very similar to dreaming that way. And like dreams, a lot of the material that is unprocessed or that some part of your nose needs to come up will come up. Yeah, that's so cool. It's probably not a great treatment for people, narcissists or people who just like don't want to work on themselves. I find that those people, while it can be helpful, a lot of stuff comes up for them, right? And sometimes they have challenging journeys because they're so not used to considering other people and things like that. So I find that to be really interesting too. Wow, that's fascinating. And I was literally just going to ask you, who are the best people

for this treatment and who are maybe people that shouldn't be doing this? And is there any risk? Like, should people be concerned about overdose or anything like that? Ketamine is so safe and we are also using a very, very low dose compared to what you'd have for general anesthesia. So it's a fraction of what anesthesiologists and ER doctors are using every single day and every single shift. You know, my husband uses it every shift at the ER. It's like, it's so safe. You can give it to kids. It was nicknamed the buddy drug. You know, the interesting thing about ketamine, most anesthetics depress your breathing. So it's, they're sort of unsafe. They sort of suspend you in between being alive and being dead.

Ketamine is so interesting because it doesn't really affect the body much at all. Right. So it doesn't, your breathing doesn't slow. It's not dangerous, which is why it was called the buddy drug. So in the war, in the Vietnam War, if your buddy was injured on the battlefield, they were trained to give your buddy ketamine and then get him back to base. And that was the anesthetic that helped him if his leg got cut off, right? It's like, so it's that safe, like a soldier could give it to another soldier. We're using it in very low doses.

Really the only, so it does spike your blood pressure as much as exercise does. So if you can tolerate exercise, great. But if you have uncontrolled hypertension that's not medicated, you probably can't do ketamine. But if you're on a blood pressure medication that brings your blood pressure down into the healthy range, you can do ketamine. Really the only, a lot of the quote side effects like dissociative states, hallucinations, we actually like those side effects because that's part of the psychedelic experience. In terms of like traditional negative side effects, I would say that a lot of people, this is not me because actually ketamine has been shown to relieve headaches.

Sometimes people will feel a little bit dizzy, have a little bit of a headache. Nausea is probably one of the most common things. We give Zofran, which is a really benign anti-nausea medication in the clinic. When people, if they want it, you can either take it before or after the ketamine or both. In recreational users, and again, we don't see this in the literature, ketamine's been used by doctors now for, you know, 60 years. So if you have ketamine at the doses and intervals that we are giving it, we don't see this side effect, but it can cause damage to the bladder lining. So that's really only been reported in recreational users. So it is one reason not to abuse ketamine. So if you do ketamine recreationally

every weekend, eventually your bladder will start to have some problems like sort of these IC type symptoms where you've got a lot of inflammation and pain. Another reason not to use it recreationally, but again, if you're using it, if let's say you do four to six sessions to start, and then you're taking one dose every three months, so then you get on a schedule where you're taking one dose every three months, so four small doses a year, that we don't see any problems with that. Okay, awesome. Because I'm sure a lot of people have questions about that. So we haven't talked too much about this, but what is the science, what is the research saying about the effects of ketamine on our mental health?

It's mind-boggling, right? So I have a new book coming out in April. I co-wrote it with the founder of Fieldtrip. It's called The Ketamine Breakthrough. And we chose that title because a lot of these bigwigs at these major research institutions have been talking about this as a breakthrough therapy. So it is so remarkably effective. SSRIs, they do help some people, but they also don't help a lot of people. And one of the remarkable things I don't think we've talked about yet is, you know, in these animal models, if you look and you can actually see the damage to the neurons. So in the study, they really exposed these animals to stress and neglect. And you can kind of see in their neurons before and after that stress damaged the neurons. It damaged the dendrites. And it's almost like the dendrites

that used to be really beautiful that stuck up after the stress, they kind of, they sort of died and kind of got flat. After one ketamine dose, they scan the brains again and the dendrites came back to life. So in many ways, it's not just doing, a lot of treatments are like symptom management, right? So like SSRIs and cognitive behavioral therapy, it's like, okay, let's try to get a reduction in symptoms. Let's try to say like, can we reduce your feelings of hopelessness from, you know, nine out of 10 to three out of 10 by changing the way you think or by adding a medication. They're sort of what I conceptualize as very surface level treatments, right? They're very rational. I like to change things at the root. So in many ways, ketamine is a very functional

approach. And I sort of, you know, I'm also trained as a functional nutritionist and, you know, in functional medicine, we're always looking for, you know, how do we not just medicate the symptoms? How do you go to the root cause? And I bring up that study with the animals because I think the root of a lot of mental illness, when we're talking about these adverse childhood experiences and trauma that people in America are finally aware of, like, right.. Like it's sort of interesting because back in the 50s and 60s, a lot of therapy was very psychodynamic and psychoanalytic. And you were sort of talking about your childhood. And then there was this shift and then it became all about CBT and all about like top level symptoms, which I use both. So I'm not, I'm not knocking CBT, but what I think

that CBT does not have that ketamine helps people access is like what is the root like why like so it's about your childhood experience and it also correlates with damage to your neurons that ketamine can fix right so now it's actually fixing what causes the damage in the first place another root cause oriented way that ketamine helps, a lot of people, they know the diagnoses, right? So the DSM-5 and the ICD-10, what mental health clinicians and doctors use to give you like a numerical code to your illness, it's really good at quantifying and pinpointing what you have, but it doesn't really tell people why you have it, right? Well, sure, you have an OCD diagnosis. Sure, you have a major depressive disorder

diagnosis, but why do you have that? And this old theory that came about in the 50s just said, well, all mental illness is the result of low levels of neurotransmitters. So neurotransmitters are a dial. And if you have low serotonin, you're going to have anxiety. If you have low dopamine, you're going to have depression or ADHD. And if you just turn up the dials, then bam, you fixed it. You cured it, right? And yes, neurotransmitter levels do have a part in this. And ketamine does indeed boost levels of neurotransmitters, which is one of the reasons why it works. But it's also going to the root cause. So a lot of labs that you're going to see like your HSCRP, your high sensitivity C-reactive protein, if that level is above 1.0, that tells us that you've got a lot of inflammation

in your body and also your brain. So I look at those labs because I work not only as a psychotherapist, but also as a functional nutritionist. And I worked with a woman recently and her HSCRP was really, really high. And we had to really target the inflammation and ketamine in and of itself reduces inflammation in the brain. We know that inflammation in the brain leads to the expression. It can turn on genes that sort of lead to the diagnosis in the first place, right? And actually, so Courtney, I have some bad news for you. Your brain is shrinking and guess what? So is mine. If you're listening to this podcast and you're an adult, guess what? It's still yours, right? So

we know that as we age, our brains do shrink a little bit. And we know that people who have a lot of atrophy and people who have a lot of stress or follow this. So a lot of the things that you talk about, this standard American diet, and you're having a lot of industrial oils like canola or peanut oil or these processed oils. Soybean. Soybean that have very high levels of omega-6s and low levels of omega-3s that causes inflammation. That's a piece of it. And if you have that high level of inflammation,

and if you're spiking your blood sugar with processed foods and sugar and flour, then it leads to a more rapid atrophy of parts of the brain that are involved and implicated in not just dementia, but also depression and anxiety and other mental illnesses. So another root cause way that ketamine is fixing the brain is by helping your brain to make new brain cells and replace the loss. So whether you've had a childhood abuse history if you've eaten a standard american diet if you've had a frozen pizza in the past week it's like all the ways we're shrinking our brains that you're not sleeping well ketamine can actually by promoting bdnf which is miracle grow for the brain help the brain to make new brain cells and then i often tell my patients

ketamine lights the fire it's sort of like that o Olympic torch. But now it's up to you to be that torch runner and keep it going. So then we're talking about, like, okay, now that you feel better, what are you going to do? What fills your life with purpose? How are you going to take this neuroplasticity? And in animal studies, it's like this enriched environment, right? You don't want to rot in a cage by himself with no wheel and no nesting material that actually really depresses and prevents the brain from growing. So we want rats to be in cages with lots of food and other people, other animals and lots of nesting material and then get on the wheel and their brains get better. And the human equivalent to that is instead of just being in this rut, like now that you feel better, like do something

new every day instead of sort of constricting when you feel like you've had a bad day and like come home and just like Netflix and chill by yourself with red wine, like reach out to somebody, like say like, hey, do you want to go to that new place, that new vegan place on La Brea and let's go check that out, right? You're giving your brain the tools to make new connections, to have these interpersonal connections that we know can also deactivate the default mode network because people who are lonely have a very overactive DMN. So it's just, it's so multifaceted, right? It's like hitting almost every root cause of mental illness, which is why I'm just absolutely obsessed.

I love it. And I love how much your passion shines through. And also, this is where you and I very much align. And why I started Real Foodology, I'm an integratively trained nutritionist, which is very similar to functional. And my whole prerogative is to get to the root cause of things. I don't want to just throw a, you know, I don't want to throw a bandaid or mask symptoms or just throw a pill on top of something. And that's not to invalidate pills and say that we don't need them in certain scenarios and situations. But I really, my prerogative is to help people get to the root cause so that they no longer have to suffer. We can eradicate it. Yeah. Oh, we are so like-minded. So if you're

doing that with food, that's what we're doing at Field Trip with Ketamine. Oh, it's so cool. That's why I really got into Ketamine because yeah, I see this as a way to tackle mental illness from a root cause perspective. And like you said, it's multifaceted. We also need to be focusing on our diet, on our sleep, on our exercise, you know, all these modalities that really make a difference as well. And this is what I talk about all the time on the podcast. And now we're just adding in ketamine. Yeah, and another way you and I are similar

is I have a lot of people where we eat, we binge, you know, binge eating disorder is a much more common diagnosis than anorexia or bulimia. But for a lot of people in this country, why are they binge eating? So they listen to your podcast or they work with you and they're like, okay, I need to do this. But guess what? When you're really depressed or if there's body dysmorphia, if there's an eating disorder, you know, so ketamine has been shown to be effective in addictive behaviors. So whether it's unhealthy foods or cigarettes or smoking, ketamine has been shown to be helpful in that and OCD. So people who are those over exercisers or, you know,

who have those compulsions and rituals or for people with eating disorders or unhealthy eating habits. If you've worked with somebody like a Courtney or listen to this podcast and it's like, okay, I know what I need to do, but I've tried and I've tried and I've tried and it always fail. Then sometimes the root cause is the depression itself or the mental illness itself. So sometimes after effective ketamine assisted psychotherapy, then you can take the, what I need to do. And it feels doable, right? I've worked with so many people. It's like, they're like health junkies, but they can never stay on track. It's like, oh, I read this book last week and I did intermittent fasting for two days

and then I fell off and then I did keto and then I did this and then I did that and nothing lasts for like longer than a week. It's like, okay, well, what's actually going on here? What's happening? Yeah. And it's probably, okay, well, what's actually going on here? What's happening? Yeah. And it's probably the root cause. And once you fix that root and you feel better and you're not so depressed and you feel hope again, then if they work with you, they can actually take your advice and apply it.

Yeah. Wow. That's really impactful. So before we go, is there anything else that we haven't talked about ketamine or your books or anything like that that you just want people to know? I want people to know that this is something that I think whether you're a Venice Burning Man open-minded person or like a librarian from the Midwest who has never tried a drug in his or her life. I think this medicine has huge benefit if you're somebody suffering. You know, I think there are too many people suffering and lonely in this country. And, you know, especially post COVID, we see, you know, this mental health wave.

I just, I think the takeaway that I always want to leave people is mental illness is treatable. What you can name, you can tame. If you actually speak up and say like, hey, I'm struggling, you don't have to do this alone. And as they say in recovery, you're as sick as your secrets. So just by telling a professional and maybe starting your journey at the field trip website to see if we're in your area, that sometimes is the very best thing you

can do. And maybe it's working with somebody like you, but if you just free yourself from the burden of that secret and say, Hey, I'm struggling that in and of itself can set you free. Wow. I just got chills from that. That was really powerful. It was so true. And yeah. And I hope that people listening are, you know, that are suffering will seek out that treatment, whether it's ketamine or something else. But I can speak very highly to ketamine and you can too. It's what we did this whole episode. So if you guys are at all intrigued, I would highly recommend looking into it, look into field trips, see if you can do the clinic or the at-home treatments that you guys have. It's, I just love so much what you guys are doing. It's really changing a lot of people's lives.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Courtney. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. So I have one more question for you that I ask all my guests, and this is a personal question. What are your health non-negotiables? So no matter how crazy busy your day is, no matter how many patients you have, what are things that you do to prioritize for your own health? Oh my goodness. I'm a sleep junkie. So I live with my husband who's an ER doctor. He works all night. And I work mostly during the day. We're both very, very, very, very busy.

But for me, the only way that we can both have these crazy lives and really be present and be sort of in this state of self is sleep. So for us, we wear our aura rings every night for sleep. We track our sleep. Yep. Like-minded. I know that if I eat before bed, my HRV goes really way down. Also, PS, if you do ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, you're going to notice that your HRV will improve dramatically, which is really fun for people to see. I've noticed that. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah. And so getting that great sleep, you know, we know that people who don't sleep eight hours, you know, their brains shrink more quickly. So, you know, ketamine can actually fix some of that damage, but in the long term,

you want to do that. And for me, I am really, really cranky with less than eight hours, but I'm really, I think I'm a really happy person as long as I get my eight. Yeah, that's important. Sleep is very important. I've been really prioritizing my sleep more than ever before, and I'm seeing massive improvements, which is really awesome. I mean, it's like, who wouldn't want to focus on that one element of health where you literally just have to like do nothing. It's so great, right? You just have to go in your fluffy cloud bed and just rest. It's the best. Well, Mike, please tell everyone where they can find you and find your books.

Yeah. So my newest book, The Ketamine Breakthrough is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold. My website is just Dr. Mike Dow. You can find me at Dr. Mike Dow, just D-R-M-I-K-E-D-O-W across all social media. And you can go to fieldtriphealth.com if you're interested in starting your ketamine assisted psychotherapy journey with us. Awesome. I hope some people listening are going to check that out. And I'm very excited for you if you are. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited

by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist.

As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.