Realfoodology - MAHA Report Reveals Major Changes to Food, Health + Healthcare | White House Special

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

253: In this special episode recorded live from the White House, I sit down with some of the most influential voices shaping the future of health in America to discuss the newly released Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) Report. Guests include Dr. Oz, Kyle Diamantas, Vani Hari, Anthony Geisler, Brigham Buhler, and Max Lugavere. We dive into key topics like food policy, GRAS regulations, Medicaid and SNAP reform, PBMs, Alzheimer’s research, and the push for preventative care, movement, and accountability in federal health initiatives. This is a behind-the-scenes look at how the MAHA coalition is working to make real change—and what it means for your health. Topics Discussed:  What is the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) Report, and how does it aim to transform public health policy? How is the FDA planning to update GRAS regulations and food safety standards under the MAHA initiative? What changes are being proposed for Medicaid, Medicare, and SNAP benefits to support preventative health care? Why are PBMs (pharmacy benefit managers) under scrutiny, and how is the MAHA movement addressing prescription drug pricing? What are the latest findings on Alzheimer’s disease research, and how is fraudulent science being addressed in national policy? Sponsored By: Beekeepers Naturals | Go to beekeepersnaturals.com/REALFOODOLOGY or enter code REALFOODOLOGY to get 20% off your order.  MASA | Go to MASAChips.com/Realfoodology and use code Realfoodology for 25% off your first order. Ollie | Head to MyOllie.com/REALFOODOLOGY, tell them all about your dog, and use code REALFOODOLOGY to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today!  Timestamps:   00:00:00 - Introduction  00:04:01 - Dr. Oz on CMS & Health Policy 00:06:09 - What MAHA Means for Real Food 00:07:28 - SNAP, Medicaid & Prevention 00:09:33 - Food Access & Health Equity 00:12:21 - Medicaid Waste & ACA Reform 00:15:16 - Movement, Sleep & Food w/ Anthony Geisler 00:17:14 - MAHA’s Core 4 Explained 00:18:58 - Building Daily Healthy Habits 00:23:31 - Fitness Access in Schools & Communities 00:26:35 - Avoiding Burnout & Staying Consistent 00:29:33 - Kyle Diamantas on the MAHA Report 00:32:42 - GRAS Status & FDA Priorities 00:36:15 - FDA Reform & Food Regulation 00:39:26 - Red Dye, Food Bans & Ingredient Risks 00:42:14 - Vani Hari on MAHA & Food Advocacy 00:47:54 - Government Response to Health Demands 00:50:52 - MAHA Criticism & What’s Ahead 00:56:06 - Fixing How We Grow & Source Food 00:59:59 - Whole Foods, Prevention & EO Impact 01:01:22 - Alzheimer’s Fraud & Science Gaps 01:05:29 - New Alzheimer’s Therapies & Creatine 01:10:38 - Brigham Buhler on FDA & Reform Efforts 01:12:05 - FDA Accountability & Future Goals 01:14:13 - GRAS Loopholes & Public Safety 01:15:55 - Strengthening Health Safety Nets 01:18:43 - Medical Overuse & Systemic Issues 01:20:30 - What Are PBMs & Why They Matter 01:23:10 - U.S. vs. Global Drug Pricing 01:24:18 - Trump's EO & Cutting Out PBMs 01:26:33 - Insurance Denials & Patient Delays 01:29:10 - Insurance Fixes from the Ground Up 01:32:21 - Progress in Reforming Health Insurance Show Links: Former Pharma Rep Breaks Down How Your Insurance Is Overcharging You + Keeping You Sick | Brigham Buhler Check Out:  Dr. Oz Anthony Geisler, CEO of Sequel Brands Kyle Diamantas Vani Hari Max Lugavere Brigham Buhler Check Out Courtney:  LEAVE US A VOICE MESSAGE Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Produced By: Drake Peterson

Hi friends, welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. Today I'm coming to you live from the White House. Words I never thought I would ever say. This is such an exciting day. I got invited to the White House because they are releasing a Maha report. So some of you may remember that on February 13th, President Trump signed an executive order establishing the Make America Healthy Again commission. And then they put together this whole report.

And at 3pm today, they are announcing the report. And so this morning, I was invited to come to a Maha press room with many of our health administrators and many people that are just involved in the Maha coalition. So I got to sit down for about 15, 20, 25 minutes with some amazing people that are working with the Maha Coalition. I am so excited. I got to sit down with Kyle Diamantis, who is the FDA Deputy Commissioner for Human Foods. I asked him about the Maha report.

I asked him about GROSS, what are the plans for the FDA moving forward, and how the FDA is actually listening to the American people and what we want and how they're really paying attention to Americans' health. I'm so excited about this. I also sat down with Anthony Giesler. He is the brand founder of Sequel. And we talked about how he wants to make America move again. There really hasn't been a lot of conversation

around exercise and movement in the Maha movement. And he is really looking to change that and bringing movement into the Maha movement. So it was a great conversation. Of course, I sat down with my friend, Vani Hari, and we caught up about the Maha movement. So it was a great conversation. Of course, I sat down with my friend Vani Hari, and we caught up about everything Maha. I heard, I wanted to ask her about what she thinks about some of the criticisms that we're getting right now,

and then we just really got to have a moment and talk about the fact that we were sitting in the White House addressing all these issues that we have largely felt have been ignored for the last 10 years. So it's just an incredible moment. I also had my friend Brigham Bueller on. He's a founder of Ways to Well, and you will probably recognize him from the podcast I had him on last year. He is such a great guest. He's honestly like one of my favorite people to talk to. And we talked about PBMs and big insurance and so much more. So you're definitely going to want to stick

around for that. I had Max Lugavere on and we talked about what the science is saying about Alzheimer's and what he is really looking forward to seeing come out of this whole Maha movement, especially when we are looking at Alzheimer's and all the research that's coming out and some fraudulent research that also came out around Alzheimer's.

So we addressed that. And last but not least, I got to sit down with Dr. Oz, which was an amazing moment for me. I grew up watching his show for years and I love, he's been such an advocate for diet and lifestyle changes. And he is such a amazing leader to be head of CMS, which is head of Medicaid and Medicare services. So I got to ask him a lot of questions

about what they plan to do with Medicaid and Medicare moving forward. We talked a little bit about SNAP and it was a great conversation. I'm just so grateful to be here I cannot believe that we are recording this out of the White House truly a pinch me moment and After I finished this recording. I'm actually gonna head over to another part of the White House and Watch Trump as he addresses this whole maja report that's coming out So stay tuned for that. And thank you so much for listening.

I hope that y'all enjoy the episode. If you want to take a moment to rate and review it, as always, it really helps the show. It means so much to me. And I just want to say thank you so much for listening. It really means a lot. Thank you so much for your support. Thanks guys.

I really struggled to find a good, healthy dog food that my dog loved and that would actually eat, but also met my pretty high standards for healthy dog food. And so I and that would actually eat, but also met my pretty high standards for healthy dog food. And so I was super stoked to find Ollie. Ollie delivers fresh clean nutrition made with the highest quality human grade ingredients right here in US kitchens with five delicious recipes like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries. There's something for even the choosiest pup and also for the moms and dads out there that are concerned about ingredients

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Next time we will. I'll bring you next time into my kitchen and we can cook something. Do you cook? I have trouble boiling water, but my wife is a great chef. She has, so I've written a bunch of books called the U-Books. They were all New York Times bestsellers, but my wife who wrote those with me also writes cookbooks. Oh, amazing. So she has more New York Times bestsellers and she taught wife who wrote those with me also writes cookbooks. So she has more New York Times bestsellers

and she taught Daphne, Daphne asked how to cook. And for that reason, I got out of the kitchen because I could not compete. I mean, I don't blame you. That's how my dad feels. My mom is an amazing cook. So he was like, I'm just gonna let you do this because you're way better at than I am.

So it's kind of how we are too, me and my fiance, Hector. Well, okay, so first of all, I just wanna, I want to give you an opportunity to tell my listeners a little bit about the CMS position that you're in and why you wanted to go for that position specifically. So, when you're in medicine, you realize fairly early on that the financial drivers of behavior are critical. So, if you give people more money to figure out

how to keep patients out of the hospital and free of chronic illnesses, they'll start doing that. If you pay them more to do open heart surgery, which is by the way, that was my day job before this all started, then you'll do more open heart surgery. So like most things in life, you want to incentivize the right kinds of behavior. And what the Maha publication book really means is that we can be curious again. Instead of figuring out what all the different interests might be that drive wrong behavior enough, ask the real questions that you're curious about. Be

brave and being courageous about how you interpret the answers and be compassionate as you share them with people, but it is imperative that we're curious. Remember 80% of questions are statements in disguise. So you want to move past that and think you know the answer to really trying to figure out, is it possible that these things aren't what we quite thought they were? What can we do differently about it? Food, in particular, as you bring up is a medicine.

It has a remarkable impact. Most of our parents recognized that when we were growing up, but somehow we forget it. And for children in particular, it's a massive issue because when you see the numbers of obese children, after the age of six, for example, and you realize that a quarter of these kids are becoming pre-diabetic, that's really expensive for us.

Diabetes increases the cost by about 50 percent. And since Medicaid and CHIP, which is the Children's Health Insurance, covers about half of all the kids in the country, my job is to pay for those kids and make sure that they're being given the best care possible because they're vulnerable. But how do you do that when they're not helping or the world around them has made it difficult for them to be healthy? So for that reason, they keep sipping further and further behind.

And as a result, we're spending twice as much as any country in the world for health care. But our results are not better. In fact, they're worse than most countries. And our life expectancy keeps si dipping further and further behind Europe. It's crazy what's happening. And this is why I'm just so grateful that we finally have this Maha initiative, because we're addressing all this and we're really talking about this now. Because with real foodology, I started this almost 20 years ago

because I needed an outlet to share all the things I was learning about about the state of Americans' health and how we were just going worse and worse down the wrong path. And we weren't even talking about the real issues. We weren't talking about chronic disease. We weren't talking about the fact that we're not eating real food. It's in the name of my podcast, Real Foodology. Because I looked around and I said,

we're not eating real food anymore. How can we just get Americans to eat real food again? It should be stunning that the name of your podcast works. I know. It would get self-evident. You know, be name of your podcast works. I know. It would get self-evident. Be a nice person-ology. I mean, that's shocking, really. Real food-ology.

But ultra-processed foods, which the Maha report talks about quite a bit, shouldn't be surprising to people. We don't eat real food anymore. We don't eat food that comes out of the ground looking the way it looks when you eat it, which is what you speak to. And that's not a rocket science shift in understanding. It is unfortunately hard to do in a lot of parts of the country. And so we pay the bill afterwards, which becomes my job. And so it motivates me both as a doctor and as a dad, but also someone's got to pay the bills to

start saying, guys, look up. We've got thousands of different receptors in our eyes to see different hues, but you don't see anything if you guys, look up. You know, we got thousands of different receptors in our eyes to see different hues, but you don't see anything if you're not looking up. Yes. So are there plans to get a more preventative approach with Medicaid and Medicare? Cause that's something I'm really concerned about. Cause you brought that up.

Like all I keep thinking about when it comes to, okay, so it's Medicaid. Yeah, so Medicaid is the one where people are on SNAP and then they're buying a lot of ultra-processed foods. Right, so they're slightly different. It's confusing, so. But it's worth taking a second on this. SNAP is the food stamp program.

That's actually administered by a different department. Yes, well I was gonna bring it around. Okay, oh yeah. But I don't think because this is a problem, right? It should be related to us. But you have a very completely different system. In SNAP, there are no restrictions really in the foods that you eat. There's some incentives to buy healthier food. Children's foods in schools also not part of us. So we pay for food in schools because children who

have breakfast do better in school. But we don't see what kinds of foods they have. So as an example, this is again, the Department of Agriculture, for example, says, you know what, fatty milk, whole milk, because it has fat, that might not be healthy, I'll get rid of the fat. Well, kids aren't eating the milk or drinking the milk because without fat, milk doesn't taste good. Skilled milk is not an app, not an app, palatable, enjoyable food. But it's not palatable. Right. It's not palatable at all, but it does the opposite. It washes away anything you might have in your mouth.

So instead, they add chocolate syrup to it. So now you give kids, instead of whole milk, which is wholesome, you give them chocolate skim milk, which has a theoretical benefit on the nutrient level, but it's not really better for them. So these are the kinds of issues we run into. Within CMS, Medicare, Medicaid, you know, Bobby Kennedy is obviously the Secretary of the Health and Human Services,

so we work together a lot. Our whole focus is how to prevent illness, because if we don't, we have to pay for it. So to answer your question succinctly, absolutely we're doing things. But much of it is difficult to prove, because if I tell you to do the right thing in prevention and you do it, I never see you.

So it's like watching or measuring a negative. It's hard to do, but it's still necessary. Yeah. Well, because I was going to make the connection of, there's a lot of pushback right now because there's conversation about reducing the access to things like ultra processed foods and sodas and candy, which I'm all for on Snap. Because what's happening is that people are then getting

ill from the foods that they're eating. And then many times people that are on SNAP are also on the Medicaid. And then we're having to front that. And so how can we look at this from a different lens of how can we just get them access to whole real foods so that then they're not having to then go to the Medicaid with their diabetes that's been driven by the foods that they're paying for with the SNAP. So there are ways for us to do it, but they're still in the experimental stage, but we're putting them hard. I'll give you one concrete example.

There are programs that take older Americans who are poor, therefore they're eligible for Medicaid and Medicare. And instead of putting them in a nursing home, which is very expensive and not offering what's in their best interest because of where they are emotionally, or leaving them at home by themselves where they just can't keep up, you can bring them into these facilities.

They're called PACE centers. And you cook for them. You make them food. Oh, amazing. And they can participate in that. By the way, they also do physical activity. They sing together. There's transportation to get them there. But it's a holistic approach.

Now, there's quite a few of these in some states, but some states don't offer them yet. So what we want to try to do is wake people up to the reality that some of these opportunities only happen if you wrap health care around with the true, more preventive strategies that food and exercise offer. Another good example are these federally qualified health centers. People can go see doctors there, but the reason they work is they have social workers deal with the social issues you have.

They have nutritionists, they have dentists, you have teeth so you can eat your food. Right? So they can bring in and afford to bring in some of these extra elements, but they have to be coordinated. Who's going to be the coach of the program? That's the big question we have to move towards. Right now we pay for care based on the episodic nature of its offering, right?

I do an operation, I charge you, you pay me. Instead of saying, I'm gonna pay the general practitioner, the internist, the doctor should be your coach, extra, if they'll manage all that together. And I do believe AI is gonna help with this. Because the cost of a doctor is about $100 an hour, but the compute cost of AI, the computer cost, is about $100 an hour, but the compute cost of AI, the computer cost, is about $2 an hour.

So you could imagine avatars that are very sophisticated, especially with some of the newer approaches with agentic AI, being able to really guide you through the process. And then they can hand you to the doctor, packaged up a little bit. All the questions have been asked, the answers have been given.

You know more about your condition, that the AI system allowed all that to happen, but they still have to put you in a doctor's arms to hug you to make sure nothing bad happens. And that is the kind of interaction that might be part of the future. Yeah. And hopefully the AI is getting obviously fed the right information around prevention and lifestyle and, you know, healthy diets and all that. So I want to ask you one more question, because I know that you're really passionate about

this, and I am too, and there's been some pushback. And so I want to hear from you, because I want my audience to hear this, about the waste and fraud that's been happening. Because we keep hearing, oh, they're cutting Medicaid and Medicare, which I've been paying attention very closely to all this. I'm a huge fan of Bobby. I've been hearing everything he's been saying. But I want to hear from you too, how you address that.

And what's the truth about that? In every scenario that I've looked at, and I think I've seen most of them, there is an increased expenditure on Medicaid. We're putting more money into Medicaid. There's a plaque on the wall when you walk into our building, Health and Human Services building where Bobby presides, from Hubert Humphrey. It's called the Humphrey Building. And it says, it is the moral obligation of government to take care of people at the dawn

of their life, the kids, those in the twilight of their life, those of these seniors, and those who are living in the shadows. That's our job. Every great society takes care of its most vulnerable, and we're great people, so we're going to do that. So we will spend more on Medicaid and CHIP and these other programs. The question is, are we getting our money's worth? How much more money are we going to spend?

And what are we going to do to make sure it's sustainable so that those populations I just outlined for you are never left behind? Because if we bankrupt the system, we're all in trouble. So let's protect the system, nurture it, love and cherish it, as the president has said, do what Bobby's articulated, which is try to prevent illness, then we'll have plenty money to go around. And I come back to the fundamental comment that I started with. We're spending twice as much as any other country on healthcare.

It's not for lack of money, it's for lack of trying. We've got to do a better job. And I believe that we're not directing the funds in the right places. And also I'm hearing all these stories of, I mean, there's an old woman that was getting like 12,000 checks for dead people and they were being cash. Well, if you want to know about fraud, waste and abuse,

you'll really get me going, but it is massive. I mean, tens of billions of dollars. We have a quarter million people who are put on the Affordable Care Act exchanges, didn't know they were on it. We probably have $10 billion lost because the same person has put on Medicaid and the exchange at the same time. So they have two insurance policies. Why do they have two insurance policies? Because they're not paying for it. So if you're at home and you're listening, you have your own insurance, you're paying for it. You don't buy two. But if you're giving them for free and you don't know that you're being given them,

we end up paying because you don't know. And now those duplicitous individuals, they're stealing from those most vulnerable people that I mentioned to earlier. We're also spending hundreds of millions of dollars on child, on housekeeping expenses, tens of millions on childcare. It's not that they're good or bad. That's not what Medicaid's supposed to do. Medicaid's supposed to make sure you're healthy.

We don't want to be urban development and build housing. We don't want to build roads. These might be valuable assets for the well-being of a country, but we have to stay in our lane. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for everything that you're doing. It's a real pleasure. I'm so grateful to have somebody ahead of this

that is concerned about preventative care, and I've followed your work for so long, and I love everything that you do, and just so grateful to have you. of this that is concerned about preventative care and I followed your work for so long and I love everything that you do and just so grateful to have you. Well, I appreciate your thoughtful questions. God bless you. Thank you so much. You too. Go Maha.

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Thank you for having me. Yeah, we actually were at dinner last night. We were. And then figured out that I was interviewing you today and I was like, oh great, we can talk about what we want to talk about. Exactly. Yeah. So we wanted to talk about. Exactly, it's good, glad to have you. So we wanted to address making America move again.

So we've been talking so much about food in the Maha movement and you went to Cali and you said, you know what, why are we not addressing the exercise and the movement piece about it? So maybe you can tell people a little bit about your background and why you are so invested in the movement side of things. Yeah, I've been in the fitness space for 20 plus years, I've done 15 different brands.

I've delivered tens of millions of workouts for Americans and across all different genres. And when I started watching the Maha movement, I was actually here for the inauguration. And as those things started to progress, we kind of get down to some core basics, which is sleep, a whole food diet, and movement. There's just some real basics in it.

And I started looking at the movement piece, I'm like, who's focused on movement, right? And it just kind of became something that was assumed. Everybody knows how to work out, everybody knows how to move, everybody is gonna do something, but it was something that wasn't addressed. And so, I went to Cali and I said, look, I think this is a piece I'd like to contribute.

Yeah, which I'm so glad that you did bring that up because you're so right. And I was kind of thinking about this because I think that there is, there has been a lot of pushback and conversation about how when MAHA was kind of announced, everybody started saying, oh, well, Michelle Obama tried to do that already. And she was unsuccessful because the Republicans are pushing back. Well, actually, what ended up happening was food industries just took over and then they made it, let's move.

So I wonder if people are a little burned by the let's move movement. Because essentially it was like, let's get everybody to move, but we're just totally not going to address the elephant in the room, which is the ultra processed foods that everybody's eating and all the crap that we're eating every day and that we're just being assaulted with. So I kind of wonder if there was a little bit of like a, okay, we don't want to do like the move portion of it because of that. But, but all things aside, it is a very important part of it.

And in fact, the MoHA report, which we're all here for, is being announced today. And I was so happy to see that it was one of the core four things that they're addressing, which is physical activity. Americans are clearly not getting enough of it. So what are your thoughts about as far as how do we tackle this? Because, you know, we have a wide range of a lot of issues. People are severely obese. Many of them probably can't even go into a gym right now. So what would be maybe first steps

to start addressing that from a root cause? Yeah, I tell everybody the mailbox. Make the choice to go to the mailbox today, go to the second mailbox tomorrow, and work your way around the cul-de-sac. It's just these small pieces. When we left dinner last night, it was, it was raining-ish, right? It was cold-ish.

And I looked and people were grabbing Ubers out of our dinner, right? It was eight minutes to Uber, it was 12 minutes to walk. Right? And it's in the dark, I'm by myself, I don't know where I am, I don't care, right? Took my watch off, I called my wife, I'm like, I'm gonna walk the streets, I'll be home in 12 minutes, right?

You take your watch off, that's smart. Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, I don't know where I am, I got to some place and I looked, I'm like, oh, there's the White House, I'm probably in good company, right? And so, and just walk back to the hotel, but it's making those choices, right?

It's making those choices of the stairs versus the elevator or the escalator or whatever it might be. And then people progress. And I think it is just like the conversation around food, right, is a huge conversation, right? There's always education and execution. And you guys are doing a great job on the education piece around food, right, is a huge conversation, right? There's always education and execution. And you guys are doing a great job on the education,

piece of it, right? And then people have to then execute at home. The government has to execute, right? Food suppliers have to execute, right? There's all that piece, but I feel like they all tie together. And so if we can begin to educate through legislation, advocacy of people understanding how to move,

when to move, right? And then they can go to the execution part, because we just assume that as humans, people understand that piece and actually really don't. Yeah. Let's go a little bit more into detail about the mailbox thing, because I actually, this is the first time I had ever heard this last night, was at dinner, actually with our friend Sage.

It's so funny, because you mentioned to that me later when we were talking, and I just thought it was so funny, because she had said this to me like 20 minutes prior to that, and I had never heard of it. I heard a replay of a podcast that I just did with Gary last week, and we were doing the whole mailbox thing too. Amazing. So it was pretty funny, it came up there too.

So let's explain that for people. Yeah, so for me, it actually started with my mom. So I moved my mom and dad down the street, right? And so now, unfortunately for them, I have to pass their house every day, in and out, right? And so now they've got a gatekeeper, literally, right? And so now, unfortunately for them, I have to pass their house every day, in and out, right? And so now they've got a gatekeeper, literally, right? So I told my mom, like, I want you off the couch and I want you to go to the mailbox, that's Monday.

Tuesday is your neighbor's mailbox, Wednesday is there, and they're in a cul-de-sac. And I'm like, there's eight houses, right? And by day eight, you're back at your own house, right? Let's start with that. And when I take her on vacation with me, we always go to walking cities, right? So you're walking Europe, you're walking, your own house. Right, let's start with that. And when I take her on vacation with me, we always go to walking cities, right? So you're walking Europe, you're walking,

we're just in Sydney, Australia, so you're walking Australia, right? These real walkable cities, a lot like DC is, right? And so it's about, don't take the car, right? And let's just go walk. And it's insane, by the end of a week, she can walk so much more, so less winded, eats better, right?

And then sleeps better, ultimately. So I'm a big proponent of, yes, you can start with nutrition, right? Yes, you can start with sleep. I'm a big proponent of starting with movement, right? Move more, eat better, and then you'll sleep better, and the three kind of work together. Yeah. Well, and you'll start feeling better. When you have that trifecta, you start feeling better, and then you, in my and the three kind of work together. Yeah, well and you'll start feeling better. When you have that trifecta, you start feeling better

and then you, in my opinion, a healthy addiction, you become addicted to feeling that healthy. Correct. So then when I'm on vacation, I hear so many people that are just like, oh, I just let myself go on vacation. I can't do that anymore. I don't like to because I don't feel good. I don't want to just go eat like shit, not get any exercise.

I mean, I was just on my bachelorette trip this last weekend and every single morning we got up and out of the house and we walked to the smoothie place. It was like eight minutes. It wasn't even that far, but it was like eight minutes there, eight minutes back and then I would make an effort to even walk around like the neighborhood.

I was literally walking around because I stayed there two days afterwards and I was walking to do my errands just around the neighborhood because I think walking is so underrated. Yeah, I mean, I think sprinting is underrated. And so I got up this morning, slammed my salt water, and went and started sprinting the streets.

And people looked at me like, is someone chasing him? Yeah, no, because I'm in the middle of the street. I'm like, nobody's chasing, I'm chasing me. But people don't do that. You look at the statistics, you start looking around a room, people past 30 years old, and they're like, when was the last time you sprint? And you always get the same answers. Oh, I jogged the other day, or past 30 years old, they're like, when's the last time you sprint? Right? And you always get the same answers, right? Well, oh, I jogged

the other day or around, I'm like, no, sprint, like someone's chasing you. And you mean it, right? And go do that 10 times, see if you can get to 10. You know, and so that's what I do in the mornings. Well, I was going to say, so this shocked me years ago, I saw a photo side by side of long distance runner and a sprinter. And I think everybody listening should go Google this and see because it was profound to me actually. The long distance runner didn't have as much muscle and the sprinters were really defined, super muscular. And there's, can you explain the science behind

why that happened? Yeah, so it was short bursts, right? If you're running, right, you need fuel. All this is just logic, right? It's all really kind of common sense when you get down to it. Good food is just putting, you know, bad food in your gas tank, right? You're not gonna go put sand in your gas tank

and expect your Ferrari to perform like a Ferrari. It's not gonna make it out of the parking lot, right? And so all these things have to work together, but when you look at long distance running, the body needs fuel. Well, it's going to burn muscle to get fuel, right? And if you're not replenishing that in short bursts, you're actually using your muscles, right, to react,

run in short bursts and recover, run in short bursts and recover, as opposed to this long-distance sort of fuel burn. It's the difference between going from point A to B very quickly, right, let's say in a Ferrari, or taking your U-Haul on a six-hour journey, right? You know, something totally different, right? And so for me, I want my be, I want my life to perform and be like that Ferrari and not, you know,

not moving a U-Haul for that long period of time. Yeah, and I imagine with sprinting, you're using up your, you're burning off sugars and your glycogen stores, right? Absolutely, yeah. And I mean, it's just, there's so many great benefits. And if you think about the flexibility you have, the movement that you have when you're sprinting,

it's not like you're taking short little baby steps, right? And you're really trying to get trucking. You're really trying to get moving. You're using every part of you, right, to do that. And so I started with a guy named Damon Sewell like seven years ago, and that's what he'd have me do. He was like, we're gonna lift shit your pants heavy and you're gonna win spring.

That's it. I'm like, this sounds pretty basic. And he's like, this sounds pretty basic. And he's like, it is. And watch the results, right? And so it's just getting back to basics. Yes. So speaking of getting back to basics, what do you hope that we can address in the next

four years? Like, do you have any sort of plan that we can roll out to help Americans? How can we also help underserved communities? Because I feel like a lot of those communities are the ones that don't have access to the gyms and are not getting as much education around all this. Like how, what's the greater plan for Americans? It's not getting that advocacy and legislation in the schools, right?

And then getting people that access, you know? Me and about, there's only about five or six of us that really control fitness in the United States, and we're all friends. I love that. One of the, I would say one of the only benefits, but one of the benefits of COVID, right? Yeah. And for the fitness industry, because as insane as it is

to say today, like we were literally operating an illegal business. Oh, because they were closing all the gyms. Gyms were illegal in the United States. That was so stupid, but alcohol and like gas stations with cigarettes were allowed. I sued the governor of Arizona in court and I said, I want to see the science, right?

I was the only guy that did it in the fitness industry, right? And then I said, I spent a million dollars suing to get that advocacy happening, right? And so if you think about an illegal business, we literally sent an email out at Pure Bar, right? It was a business I owned and operated at the time. We sent an illegal email out in the middle of the night for a 5 a.m. bar class.

We pulled up and there were two cops in front of the store and they're like, nope, you're not gonna do it. So it was literally illegal. But during that time, what did us great was the five or six people that really controlled fitness, we all got into Zoom a couple of days a week, right? And we got together and we figured out like, how are we gonna kind of control this industry and advocate for this

industry and that for this industry? And that's what, you know, we're all doing today. Yeah. And so is there a plan to like get exercise more back into schools? Because I've also been hearing too that they've been getting rid of PE in a lot of schools. They're getting rid of it. And you'll hear today most likely in a report and some of the data where prisoners actually get more outside physical activity than our school kids do.

That's insane. And so you'll probably hear that from Callie and see the report, but it's completely nuts. And so it starts there, right? Absolutely. And then, you know, and then like you said, you've got people that may not have access, right? And so from a technology perspective,

how do we get them access? How do we get them that education? Self-execution is tough, but you have, you know, great brands like a Planet Fitness, how do we get them access? How do we get them that education? Self-execution is tough, but you have great brands like a Planet Fitness, for instance, that's in those markets, right? And Chris Rondow, who built that business, a good friend of mine, and Chris was like, I'm competing with the couch, right?

As we tell investors all the time, he's like, I'm not competing with another gym, I'm competing with a couch. I'm trying to, it's not about the $10. Trying to get them off the couch. Yeah, it's not about the $10, everybody's got $10, right? So I'm not there, I'm just trying to get the person off the couch. Yeah, it's not about $10. Everybody's got $10, right? So I'm not there. I'm just trying to get the person off the couch

and into the gym. And so he was a big advocate for that. And so, you know, people like Chris are willing to help. You know, Dave Long from Orange Theory, you know, a lot of these people, Baram, who owns Lifetime, guys, all five or six of us really want to get to America to move again. Yeah. And we have the resources. We have the accessibility. We have the location. Guys, all five or six of us really want to get to America to move again, right?

And we have the resources, we have the accessibility, we have the location, so. I think a lot of this is an education piece as well. Absolutely. We need to get the education out to people. And I think too, and I used to be this way, I think that there's this misunderstanding that if you're gonna go work out,

you have to go so hard in the gym that you're sweating and like you're just like dead by the end of it. And I tell my audience all the time because I went through a phase where I really burnt myself out. I mean I had hormonal imbalances as a result of it. I was puffy because I was so high cortisol because I was over exercising. And I had a moment of reckoning with myself where I was like I've had it. I'm just going to say I'm just going to walk every day. I walked every day for two years the The way that it transformed my body.

It truly changed the way that I look at exercise. And I remind people now, find things that you truly love to do and that you find joy in. If you love to walk, walk. If you love to walk the beach. When I lived in California, I would walk the beach every day.

It was the best exercise. It lifted my butt. Like it was- You got to sprint the sand to the beach. Perfect. That's where you got to go. Yes. If you love to rollerblade, go rollerblade.

If you love to play tennis, just get some sort of movement in that gets your body moving. And the things that you love to do are gonna be the things you're gonna be consistent with. And it's about being consistent. And that's why I've had 15 different brands, right? So if somebody wants to do,

they wanna be at Rumble Boxing, or they wanna be at UFC Gym, or any of those kind of things. Or they wanna do yoga, which is on the other side of punching somebody in the face, right? You know, you want to sit there and relax, right? Even, you know, my brand iFlex

and I own an operated stretch lab and, you know, where people just go and get flexibility. Sometimes at 80 years old, that is their movement. That is the workout, because they're not going to complete a one hour cycling class, right? And so it really is kind of meeting the customer where they are, right? And just kind of meeting the customer where they are. And just

kind of to your point, not this over burn, like anything in life, too much work, too much this, too much that. So keeping everything in balance. And that's why I always go back to the mailbox, because it's like, let's just start with basics. Let's see if you get there. Can you do 25 pushups? Can you do 25 sit-ups? This is basic, like, rocky stuff. I was just with them yesterday. It was awesome. I ran the stairs two weeks ago. And I was with Sly yesterday on Tulsa King's set in Atlanta.

It was awesome. And he is an amazing guy. But just those sheer basics of can you do those, and if you can't, then work your way to doing those, and then work past that. Yes, exactly. Oh, I love this so much. Well, is there anything else that you feel like

the listeners need to hear before we go? No, I mean, I think it's just those basics, right? It's just making those little adjustments every day to start moving again, and less Ubers, and more walking the city streets. Yes, the key, what you said about walking home last night, so we tried to do that too, but I was in really high heels and it just was not feasible.

But we try to walk almost every night, especially if we're like close to, because we travel a lot and if we're close to the hotel, we'll just walk home from dinner. It's one of our favorite things to do. It's great for your blood sugar. Yeah, it's amazing. It's absolutely perfect.

So let's just, let's make America move again. Absolutely. Yes, thank you so much, Anthony. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you so much, Anthony. This is awesome. Thank you. Did you know chips used to be cooked and beef tallow?

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Of course. Great to see you. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. It's been a while. Yeah, it's great. Welcome to DC. Thank you so much. We met last fall at the DC inauguration actually.

We did. And we talked about I needed to get you on the podcast. So this has been a long time coming. It has been. This is great. And this is a super exciting day. So Trump signed an executive order on February 13th, establishing the Make America Healthy Again commission.

And you guys are releasing a report today. So can you tell us a little bit about what that report is? Yeah, that's right. So with Bobby Kennedy coming on board, right, the Maha movement has been stronger than ever, really a grassroots effort led by a lot of people like yourself, instrumental in that. And with that came the executive order that directed us to create a Maha report within 100 days. So today is the 100 day mark,

and we have a great report coming out later this afternoon, I think at three o'clock. And it's really focused on, you know, where we have failed as a society and taking care of our children. We have this tremendous chronic disease problem that plagues our children. Our children are spending too much time

in front of the screen, They're eating the wrong foods. They're being subject to chemicals in our food supply. And it's really a problem that's persisted for a long time. And finally, we're in a position where we're going to take steps to fix that. I mean, this is incredible. I feel like a little kid. I just keep telling you how excited I am because I'm going to get emotional about it because I've been in this world for almost 20 years and I feel like I've been trying to sound the alarm for so long and largely our government has really ignored this, especially from our very agencies like the FDA. Like I am blown away.

I'm literally pinching myself that I'm sitting here with someone from the FDA right now and you're talking about diet and environmental chemical exposures and the over-medicalization of our country. I mean this is monumental. This is crazy. It is. Yeah, it's really exciting. It's a huge effort in sort of understanding what are the problems in society, right? So this report really goes through, here's sort of the lay of the land, here's our problems,

here's sort of issues that's been identified, and then we're gonna follow that up in another 80 days with another report that's got more recommendations and sort of next steps. So this is sort of part one in been identified. And then we're gonna follow that up in another 80 days with another report that's got more recommendations and sort of next steps. So this is sort of part one in a two-part process. And yeah, it's been incredible to see the collaboration across government. So everybody from the White House, FDA, HHS, EPA, USDA,

commerce, education, really a huge cross-government effort, really tremendous. It's so cool to see, because that's another thing too, is I always felt like our agencies were like not really working together. They were all kind of like in their own little corners, kind of just all ignoring these issues. So it's so cool to see this report. So this report is basically outlining the four major factors that are contributing to the rise in childhood chronic disease. This is just for the listeners. This is my first time seeing this.

So I'm like reading this in real time right now. And then essentially you guys go over all of the stats and everything. And then from there, so in the next, you said 30 days or 100 days? 80 days. Okay, so then in 80 days, we're going to get another report that's essentially like, okay, so now we know the issues, how are we going to move forward? That's right. Okay, so what are some of the, how are we going to move forward? That's right.

Okay. So what are some of the first things that you guys want to address? I know Gras has been on the table. Yep. Yeah. So look at FDA in the foods area, a lot of stuff we've been doing and focused on, you know, we have the huge announcement on the synthetic dyes, right? So the petroleum based dyes, huge announcement, making a lot of great progress with that.

We're going to have some big announcements coming in the next few weeks on that, so stay tuned. That's gonna be, we're really excited about what's coming very soon on the dyes. Grass is a huge one. So for those that don't know, FDA, you know, we don't have a robust process to review the ingredients that are going into our food products. So

go back to the 1950s and what's called the food additive amendments were first passed to the sort of seminal law of the federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act. And that law essentially said if you want to add a food additive to a food, you have to go through an FDA, essentially an approval process. But that law also said, if you're generally recognized to safe, you don't have to go through FDA approval. You can essentially put the product on the market. And so... Wasn't it originally designed for like salt, like things that were just very basic, right? It was designed for things that have been in our food supplies for generations, for millennia,

salt, baking soda, you soda, things that have historically, wheat, things that have always been used. Unfortunately, with advances in technology and our food supply and the drive post-war and into the 60s and 70s and 80s to make foods more shelf stable, it was all based on idealistic reasons. We wanted to extend shelf life,

we wanted to increase our food supply, make it more robust. So we started adding these preservatives, emulsifiers, binders, fillers, all these things to our food supply. And companies said, you know, we have this grass process that we can really get to the market a lot quicker doing that. So we're not going to go through the food additive process. And the grass process, which again was sort of designed for idealistic purposes, sort of swallowed the rule such that grass became the normal. And nobody was really using the

food additive process that really should have been used for these ingredients. And so, and not only did that grass process swallow the rule, the grass process also sort of has two pathways. One of those is a voluntary process where companies can notify FDA and sort of get a tacit approval. But the other process, which you've probably heard the term self grass, is essentially where companies can retain a panel of experts, ask that panel to make a binding, and companies can go to market based on that binding by the scientific panel without ever submitting any data to FDA or without ever publicizing that data, letting consumers see it. And so there's been a proliferation of companies

that do this self-grossing. And the standards are essentially the same as the food additive standards from a safety perspective, but there's no review by the government or no opportunity for consumers to really review that data. So it's created a little bit of a black hole where because they can do that, FDA has no knowledge of these ingredients that have been self-grast. So there's a big gap in our knowledge. So there's potentially thousands of ingredients out there that have been self-grast that we at FDA don't know are on the market. And so Secretary Kennedy has directed us to close that loophole. And it's something we're working really hard on. We're actively addressing that at FDA.

And we anticipate to have something later this year that will address that. Amazing. I know all my listeners are thinking this right now. So I just want to ask you and I want to be very clear, I know that you inherited a problem, this is not something that you made happen. How did we ever let that happen in the FDA? How was that a thing? Like, how was the FDA, because, you know, for so long, I mean, my friend Bonnie Hari says this all the time, she's like, the FDA was asleep at the wheel for the last, you know, 50 years or however long.

Unfortunately, this happened over a period of decades, where we saw this framework created that allow these ingredients on. FDA tried to make changes and essentially said, like, we don't have the resources or the time to review all of these, so we're sort of gonna create this voluntary pathway instead of requiring companies to submit this

and then FDA review it. So this sort of voluntary pathway was created, it persisted, there were efforts to look at ways to refine it. It's never been done but now we're taking steps to change that because we've gotten to the point where our food supply is potentially problematic with the number of ingredients in it. You know, we're launching in addition to grass reform, which is on the front side, the pre-market side, we're also launching a post-market framework

where we're gonna review these chemicals in the food supply, these ingredients systematically. So historically, FDA has never really had a standalone framework for reviewing ingredients already on the market. It was sort of a framework where once you're in, you're in. Yeah.

And we would only really review ingredients when there was a citizens petition or there was an issue, you know, deaths or something that sort of raised tension of the media or Congress and we responded proactively. And we're going to end that. Yeah. And well, this is so tough because a lot of these additives in our food supply, it's a slow burn, right? It's like over time it's causing issues. It's not like somebody's immediately going to the hospital or dying. It's gradually over time. So that's also why it's been a lot harder to catch these things. It is. That's right. I mean, there's a number, you know, there's several examples where a product enters the market.

It's tested maybe on a small group, it goes through a small expert panel, and then when it hits sort of widespread use, we learn that there's problems that weren't identified. And so our goal is to stand up this framework in the post-market context so that we can look at a number of different reasons to evaluate it, whether it's data from another country, whether it's things consumers are flagging, is it a state that's flagging it and looking at passing legislation, are we seeing trends, you know, doing event horizon scanning. So we're going to look at all these different data points, all these different things, we're going to identify which

chemicals we should prioritize, and we're going to review those to see if they still belong in the food supply. Should we change tolerance levels? Should we set tolerance levels? Should we revise different things with them? So we're really excited about this, but it's a proactive process. We're not going to be reactive anymore. It's a proactive process, but we're going to start taking a look at these chemicals before they reach the point where they start causing significant harm.

This is so amazing. I mean, this is what so many other countries do. It's a cautionary approach instead of the gross approach, which we have right now. So in the essence of time, because I know you don't have a lot of time, I want to ask you one more question. So there was some criticism, which I was shocked by. So after the announcement about the food dyes, I was getting a ton of criticism from registered dietitians and people that are just kind of against Maha in general, and they were saying that this wasn't actually a ban from the FDA, that it was just a, they were asking the food companies nicely for the food dyes.

Can you explain that a little bit and give more context to what is happening? Yeah. So, we have a number of tools in our toolbox, right? So, we have a number of regulatory tools that we've had. So, red dye number three, for example, was banned in January of this year under the Delaney Clause, which is based on a scientific standard. We've got two food dyes of the synthetic petroleum-based dyes, as we're calling them, that have already been abandoned by industry. We're taking action

soon to remove those. There are six others that are sort of in widespread use. Our first step is asking industry to voluntarily stop using these. And that's based on a number of factors. You see a number of states that have already passed legislation banning these first in schools and then statewide. So California was the first state to lead with this. West Virginia more recently has passed legislation. We've been meeting weekly, daily with a number of food companies. We're very close to having some big announcements come up on this. We are working hand in hand with them as a first step. We have other regulatory tools in our toolbox that we are actively

working on. We've announced a partnership with NIH to further study a number of things in the nutrition space, including ultra processed foods and dyes. So we have science, we're developing further science, we have other regulatory tools. Our first step, we're going to use honey and not vinegar, we're going to work with industry. We're very close to having some big announcements in the next couple of weeks. And we're really excited about where it's progressing. So essentially, the food company is already complying.

And if they don't, you guys have other ways and means to make them comply essentially. Yeah, that's right. Okay, cool. That's right, yeah, we're sort of taking a path of what I call least resistance. Industry's already moving this way, consumer demand has driven it,

the state laws have driven it. And so industry knows that, they've asked us to put together a national framework and to do this in unison to sort of prevent competitive advantages that companies might get by doing it at different time frames. So we're really trying to work at a national scale to drive commitment on a large scale to do that. This is so amazing, and I'm sure my audience is just, like,

cheering listening to this right now, because largely the FDA was kind of our enemy in this fight for the last 20 years. So thank you so much for coming on board and actually fighting for the American people and doing what the American people want. Of course. Thank you so much.

It's great to be here. I really appreciate it. And I'd love to come back and do it again. I would love that. Thank you so much. Good seeing you. Yeah, you too. So I am currently in the White House right now with the Trump era megastar, according

to New York Times, Bonnie Hari. How did that feel when you saw that article? First, I wanted to puke. Yeah, I really did. Like it just, I don't think anyone really loves reading about themselves, but I'm just so grateful. You know, it moved from being nauseous and having a lot of anxiety, to having that kind of spotlight, to being grateful for this movement

and how it's growing and how now we have the highest levels of leadership, the President of the United States, talking about the issues that I have been fighting for for over a decade. And you too, Courtney, and it is such a defining moment on getting the truth out to the American people, you know, pulling back the curtain about why we are so sick, the toxic soup we are all being exposed to, how we're being poisoned by our food chemicals, our environmental chemicals, the microplastics and the phthalates and all of the different things that we have been sounding the alarm for so that we

can live our truest, healthiest lives where as of right now because of the special interests and conflicts of interest in our government and how they've controlled the media. We have not gotten the truth about this from our government. And now today is going to be a pivotal moment that will impact generations to come. My children's children's children. And I am, I'm kind of in awe of this moment that's happening here today. And I hope you recognize how special it is that we're all here together. You know, where we started.

You know, I think of that Drake song all the time, like, start from the bottom, now we're here. Right. Like, it's it's it's wow. Right. I personally feel so vindicated that the chemicals that I have been sounding the alarm on are included in this report that they are in there and the harms of these chemicals are discussed and why we need to avoid them, right?

And I think getting the truth out to the American people is the first step in causing meaningful change because they can start making decisions today. They don't have to wait for regulatory measures or policy changes. They can use this information today. They can start to make better choices at the grocery store. They can start to make better choices for their lives

and lifestyle changes that could impact their lives right now. And truly, just that information alone is going to have an incredible impact on human health in this country. Well, and also, this is what Americans want. This is what Americans voted for. This is what Americans want. So for the companies that are paying attention and starting to realize that, exactly, start doing this now, because otherwise you're going to lose business and Exactly, start doing this now, because otherwise you're gonna lose business and you're gonna be forgotten, because Americans don't want this crap anymore. And I just wanna take a moment to,

I cannot believe it, Vani, you and I, I'm gonna get emotional about this, you and I are sitting in the White House right now. And I wrote you 10 years ago, a message saying, I'm so passionate about this. What do I do? I wanna be involved in this. Like, how do we change this?

You started this, Vani. You started this whole movement. So many people like myself. You got all of us, you literally got this army behind you. So don't ever forget that. We're all here because of you. And there's been amazing leaders in this world that have, Mark Hyman has written so many books about it, but you're the one that rallied the people.

And you got us all here. And it's incredible. And I can't believe that we're in the White House right now. Oh my gosh, you're going to make me tear up. This is insane, Vani. You're going to make me tear up so bad right now, right in the middle of this podcast. It's okay. I've cried on the podcast before.

Other you said. You know, when I was going through this journey, when I was trying to heal my health, when I was searching for answers to my health problems, I felt so alone. And I am so grateful for the entire Food Bay Barmy because finding that community, it made me feel supported. And it was the citizens that not only care about their own health, but they were willing to join in the fight, they were willing to hold these companies accountable and call them and show up at the headquarters

of these companies with me and fight and demand truth and demand that these American companies stop poisoning us with ingredients they don't use in other countries. And it was people like you, Courtney, that Secretary Kennedy took our voices, right? Took our unheard voices to the campaign trail and elevated them all the way up to President Trump. And was able to take our issues

and make it the forefront of this maha movement. And now we have a report coming out that is literally all of the issues that we've been screaming off the rooftops for so many years. I know. And it's coming from the President of the United States. And this is a moment that I never thought I'd see in my generation. Same. I thought we were just going to be screaming

into the ethers for, till we died. It's like we were always going to be mad at the FDA. We're always going to be screaming for more. No one was ever going to hear us. And then now we have this report, which is the whole reason that we're here today. And I think by the time people are listening to this, they're going to be, they're already going to have seen

the report and know about it. But how cool that we finally have a government that's outlining all the issues that we have been trying to get people to pay attention to and listen to us for so long, and now it's coming from the top down. It's incredible! SONIA DARAGOS-MORANZO-FONTANA It's absolutely incredible.

I mean, things that are really fundamental to human health are in this report. I mean, the fact that 87 percent of children's urine has glyphosate in it, that Americans are exposed 500 percent more than our European counterparts to glyphosate. The fact that we are being exposed to these chemicals at a higher rate than every other developing nation, these chemicals have been weaponized against us.

It's affecting our country. And President Trump sees this. And I think what's going to be so foundational from this report, it's going to spark innovation and it's going to spark common sense regulatory changes. When I think about how the pre-harvest desiccant use of glyphosate, how they spray the crops, like wheat and oats and beans,

that are, you know, conventional crops here in the United States. They spray them right before harvest to dry out the crops with glyphosate. How that only accounts for, they say, estimated around 3% of the amount of glyphosate that's sprayed in this country, but it creates 90% of the amount of glyphosate that's sprayed in this country, but it creates 90% of the toxic exposure

that humans are exposed to. And- Because it's all going on our supermarket shelves. Exactly. And so like, is it, you know, what is the policy recommendation as a result of this information? And it needs to start there with the common sense,

like can we show farmers a different mechanism, a different way to do this, to help them, and provide subsidies and other things that we can support the American farmer, right, where they don't suffer, because they've been relied upon all these chemicals for so many years. But also, how can we reduce the toxic load

of these chemicals for human beings at the same time? And so I think this is what you'll see out of this administration. You'll see Secretary Reuters for so many years, but also how can we reduce the toxic load of these chemicals for human beings at the same time? And so I think this is what you'll see out of this administration. You'll see Secretary Rollins and Secretary Zeldin talk about supporting the American farmer, but you'll also see the truth about these chemicals at the same time. And so there's going to have to be some amazing collaboration between agencies to address these issues.

And this is what's so beautiful about the Maha commission that was created as an executive order by President Trump because it spans several different agencies because it affects human health from different aspects of the government and people have different roles and responsibilities and they all have to work together to make this happen. But the key defining step was to get the truth

out, because the truth has been censored, it's been banned, it's been deplatformed, and now the truth is getting out. Finally, we're not being gaslit by our agencies anymore. So what are you... Okay, so we just tackled the food dyes. Actually, I want to ask you this. So I'm seeing a lot of criticisms from one side saying, okay, oh, great, you know, you got the food dyes out, but it's still ultra processed foods. What do you say to the critics when they're saying that, that we're not addressing like the root of it? I mean, my thing is, I just think, just wait, just give us time. Yeah, I mean, you know, gosh, this administration's only been at work for 100 days.

Exactly. And so I think there's there's so many different things that are gonna happen as a result of this truth getting out. I mean, just thinking about the dietary guidelines that have been largely influenced, 90% of the funding are the people who have, put the recommendations together,

had some kind of food industry tie, just eliminating that conflict of interest and getting people the truth about what they should be eating will have an amazing impact without even changing the food as it is, just if we can get the truth out of what's really gonna be truly healthy to the American people. I mean, as simple as if the report just said,

I mean, if the new dietary guidelines just said, eat real food, it would have a bigger impact on American health than anything that's ever been done, right? And so there are things that are happening from a comprehensive standpoint that are just beyond food dyes. Like food dyes was, I would say, low-hanging fruit in terms of Europe's already banned them. We know they cause these health issues. The food companies know already how to make their products without it, which is what we've shown through our campaigns.

And so now it's taking it the next step of, like, how do we really truly clean up Americans' diets? We have to give them the truth about these chemicals, how these chemicals have been invented to improve the bottom line of the food industry, have not been there to improve their health, that they're very problematic, that there's certain chemicals that increase their exposure

to risk cancer and autoimmune disorders and other things. And a lot of those chemicals are listed in the report. And I'm thinking about like titanium dioxide that's banned in Europe, but is used here in the United States, is banned in Europe because it causes DNA damage. They just found that it's linked to diabetes now and reducing metabolic health in America, as a new study came out. And this is something that like every child in America is eating all the time, which is skittles,

you know, and titanium dioxide can be in like frosted products and ice cream. And tampons too. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So there's so many different things that Americans are going to be able to do from day one, just knowing this information that's coming out of their government and allowing the press, the free press, to write about these issues without being concerned about, you know, getting, you know...

Being censored. Being censored, right. Yeah, or like being called quacks. Exactly. Because now finally, the science that we've been trying to get people to pay attention to for so long is now coming out of the White House. How many times we've been called a pseudoscientist? Right, I mean everything under the sun and what are we trying to do? We're trying to get the American citizens to eat more real food. Exactly, what's getting

quacked about that? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's's absolutely so simple. And but again, I feel so vindicated with this report coming out. And it is it is a defining moment. And in really changing the trajectory of product disease in this country, I think we're going to see innovation, we're going to see more companies trying to give us real food, which is so exciting. It's the reason why I started Trevani, right? Was I was sick of all the additives in food and I wanted to see ingredients used in our own kitchen to make foods, right? To make fast, convenient foods.

And I think we're gonna see that. And we live in a world right now where everything's working against us. The food's at the airport, the food's while we travel, the food's at the restaurant. Every time it's almost like we're constantly being a little poisoned everywhere. It's a huge assault, right?

On our health. We need to create a new world, a new world where Courtney and Bonnie can travel the country and come to the White House and go to the White House cafeteria and eat real food, right? We can't do that today. Oh no, I have to Instacart everything to my hotel room and then I bring it in a big bag.

I just brought a huge bag of snacks from the White House, because it's... Yeah, and as someone with children and how difficult it is to feed children real food on the road, like where I'm in my hotel room in my little hotel sink with my little cutting board and knife and trying to cut them fresh fruits and vegetables and, like, make them a pea beaner and jelly sandwich

with, like, good bread made, you know, ordered from Instacart. And I'm annoyed that I'm doing it on the small counter and I'm putting it all together. And I just think to myself for a minute to get out of that annoyance of like, this is a revolutionary act that I'm doing for my children to make sure their bodies get the nutrition they need. And so I get out of that space of like,

this is a pain in the butt to, I'm doing this for their health. And this is, I'm fighting against the system saying, you know what, I'm not gonna just succumb to what's available at the airport. I'm gonna do something about it. And thank God you have the resources and the education and the wherewithal to do it.

And this is what we're trying to get to all Americans. We want them to all have the access to this. This is why the criticism is so insane to me. We just want to have access for real, we want all Americans to have access to healthy, real foods. We just want to see Americans healthy again. So my last question, so what I'm really hoping to see moving forward next is really addressing

the way that we are growing our food. And that's largely the chemical pesticides that we're using, also the tilling, just the way that we are growing in general, which to me is really the root cause of this. What are you really hoping to see us address next? And do you think we're going to address those? I know you and I have talked a lot about glyphosate. And I'm hoping that we're going to address that. You know, atrazine is banned in 60 other countries.

It's linked to infertility. And when you look at the infertility stats in this report, it's very alarming what's happening to the men in their sperm count, what's happening to little children when it comes to puberty ages. We know what it does to frogs too. It literally changes the sex of frogs. Yeah, Alex was right.

Yeah, it's true. It's turning the frogs day. Yes, yes, no, it's true. He was right though. Yeah, he was absolutely right. And so, we are at kind of the forefront of, if we can get this truth out,

Americans can start to demand better and start to demand that the people in charge in Washington, the people, the legislators, the people making these rules, will start to fight for the American person instead of the chemical lobby. And for so long, the chemical lobby has been so sophisticated and so organized against us, we have to dismantle that.

And I think the maha movement can dismantle that, because now we are all together, and we are in this coalition, against us. We have to dismantle that. And I think the Maha movement can dismantle that because now we are all together and we are in this coalition and it's growing every single day. And it's going to be a critical piece of the next election. And I think we're gonna start to see some Democrats come on board, which they have been so far,

which is so annoying and so crazy to think about because it doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican. Poison is not partisan. You know, when we're sick, we're all sick, right? And I think we're going to start to see people try to out-Maha each other. I mean, that's the vision that I'm, you know, meditating on. Like, let's see who can out-Maha each other, right? And I mean, they're going to realize that the Maha base is a big voting base, right?

And if they don't have the Maha platform and they're running on it, they're not going to be popular. I think about actually the AG in Texas, Ken Paxton, and how he's taking on the food industry and investigating Kellogg's and now investigating General Mills. And I think he's going to start investigating more things that we're really excited about, too, coming up.

And he's running for senator. He's running on the right platform. Yeah, he is. You know, on human health. This is what Americans want. And this is what Americans want. We're tired of being sick. We're tired of going to the doctor's offices.

We're tired of chronic disease. We're tired of being on a yo-yo train of dieting when the food is engineered to make us eat more than we should. We're tired of paying more for food that doesn't poison us. Yes. It's maddening. Yes, when our European counterparts get better, safer foods. Yes.

And they don't even have to try as hard as we do. It's so maddening. I go to Europe and I can basically have a free-for-all. And then in America, it's like I'm having an Instacart and like making my own little meals in the hotel rooms. And I just am so happy that we're addressing all this. And thank you so much for the role that you're playing in this, Vani. Truly you have emboldened an army of people to fight this.

And it's so incredible. So just know that you're not alone in this and you have so many people behind you. And I know you know this, but just, I was reminded because I literally got a message from somebody this morning that just said, just remember that you have this whole army of people behind you that are cheering you on

and we're so excited and thank you for being the voice for the American people and it brought me to tears. So I wanted to- We're the Goonies. We're the Goonies. We're the Goonies. Oh gosh. Love it so much.

I love you. Thank you so much. I love you. Thanks Bonnie. Max, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. It's an honor. Yeah, we've been we've we've needed to do this for so long. And how cool that we're sitting here at the White House right now.

It's insane. You've got to think that at some point you did something right to end it up here, right? It's just incredible. Yeah, such an honor. Well, and how cool that all of these issues that we've largely been talking about for so long have been ignored by our government agencies for so long. And now we literally have the president writing an executive order and then outlining all of the things that I just thought I was going to be yelling out forever in the ethers and

never get addressed. Yeah, no, it's an idea whose time has come that we need to address these big public health issues, but with a mandate that gets sort of like it's a return to what we all kind of know deep in our at our cores to be true that whole foods are the way that a diet that's comprised 60% of ultra processed foods that's not right. And addressing prevention, you know, these kinds of chronic conditions that are now stressing Medicaid

and the healthcare system, all due to their... with preventable, you know, aspects to them that we just have swept under the rug. I think it's crucially important that we're addressing these issues at this scale, think it's crucially important that we're addressing these issues at this scale, and it's just amazing. I mean, it's so cool.

And we're naming the corporate capture, which I think is a huge part of all of this. And I know you have talked about this largely, and I'm so excited to talk to you about this, because you're kind of my go-to for this type of information. And I haven't talked about it on the podcast yet. So I actually just saw last week that Bobby said

in one of the hearings that Alzheimer's, there's like an Alzheimer's fraud that he's talking about, or essentially that what he claimed is that we have not found the cure for Alzheimer's yet, because essentially they've been blocking it because there's just been this one way of thinking, right? Is that my understanding? There's just been this one way of thinking in science. And the study was disproven,

and then they blocked any other room for thought around it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said, yeah. So basically what has happened is that the prevailing hypothesis as to what causes Alzheimer's disease has been dubbed the amyloid hypothesis. And it charts back to, I don't know, 1906 when Alzheimer's disease was first named by the physician Eloise Alzheimer. I mean, that's how far back this... No, I didn't know, 1906 when Alzheimer's disease was first named by the physician Eloise Alzheimer. I mean, that's how far back this hypothesis goes,

because back in the day, with our rudimentary tools of medicine, to really fully diagnose Alzheimer's disease, it could only be done on autopsy, where you'd open up the brain and you'd see these plaques, sort of like the plaque on your teeth but surrounding neurons in the brain, along with widespread neuronal deaths or shrinkage. And this idea that the plaques cause Alzheimer's disease, along with these tangles, tau tangles and the like,

has been the prevailing hypothesis as to what has guided pharmaceutical inquiry into a potential cure for the condition. And we've actually succeeded, and when I say we, I mean medicine. I'm not a medical doctor. But has succeeded in terms of being able to reduce the plaque burden in the brain of patients

with Alzheimer's disease. But what hasn't worked is it hasn't correlated with an improvement in the clinical features that we want to improve for the patient with Alzheimer's disease. We don't care about the plaques. If we're moving them, isn't going to actually improve cognitive function, isn't going to actually bring their memories back, right? And so the fervor around this hypothesis was starting to wane

about 20 years ago, at which point a paper was published in Nature by a researcher by the name of Sylvain Lesney, which really stood as this sort of renewing of this hypothesis, because what they claimed in this paper to have found was a subtype of amyloid that, when injected into a mouse, gave a profound cognitive dysfunction. And that basically renewed faith in this hypothesis

that has subsequently been cited thousands of times, hundreds of times, I think about 1,200 times in the medical literature, billions of dollars going into this amyloid hypothesis research funding pipeline. And what was revealed over the past couple of years, four years, was that that paper was completely fraudulent. And so a fraudulent paper basically continued to prop up this funding pipeline,

this, you know, the hope that all of the patients, all the families who've been touched by dementia and Alzheimer's disease have put into, you know, the research apparatus. It directed all the pharmaceuticals too, right? Yeah, exactly. So all the treatments. So then people were gettings, too, right? Yeah, exactly. So all the treatments.

So then people were getting put on these treatments that were never going to help them anyways, because it was based off quality science. And not only did they not help, I mean, there was some evidence that maybe there was a modest improvement, you know, a statistically significant improvement, but that wasn't necessarily clinically significant,

which is an important distinction to make. But they were not a free ride, so they led to side effects in a significant proportion of patients that took these drugs, like brain swelling, brain bleeds, and even death. So far from a cure, and ultimately, I think, harmful, and all based on this fraudulent paper, which is what RFK Jr., Junior Secretary Kennedy addressed in that statement.

So that must have been so validating for you to see that, to have the head of the HHS say that and validate that, because now it means that it's probably going to redirect the science. So what are we seeing? Are we now seeing other science emerge now that that came out that that was fraudulent? Are we seeing other scientific papers come out saying, you know, that there's other ways to address it? Have we seen anything that's exciting in that realm? CAO I think that I'm not as optimistic that we will actually find a cure, unfortunately.

And I say this as somebody who had a loved one with dementia, my mom, who is my why. This is a condition that begins decades prior to the onset of symptoms. So we really need to start talking about this condition and others in the context of prevention. But when it comes to viable therapies, there is a lot of hope, and there was one study that literally just came out this week

looking for the first time ever at creatine in patients with Alzheimer's disease. Now, again, it's not a cure. The trial was very small. It involved 20 patients. There was no placebo group. But we'll take what we can get at this point, right? And creatine's very safe. It's got a decade-long safety record.

It's an incredible, naturally-sourced compound. And what they found in this small trial needs to be replicated with a large population with a placebo group. But what they found was that for the 20 patients be replicated with a larger population with a placebo group, but what they found was that for the 20 patients that took it, over eight weeks, 20 grams of creatine a day, led to statistically significant improvement across all cognitive scores. And again, it's a safe compound.

And yeah, that gives me tremendous hope. The questions that arise are, okay, can we maybe use a lower dose? We have yet to unfurl those answers, but as a pilot trial, I mean, incredibly optimistic. And it's also cheap. There aren't no side effects. I mean, I take creatine every day.

Yeah, there you go. I feel like there's this whole movement of people now on creatine, which is awesome. And it's cool to hear that there's amazing cognitive benefits as well. But creatine can't be patented, so where's the money going to come from, right? Like, that's the big question. There's tons of money in pharmaceutical inquiry, right?

But that's why it gives me so much optimism that we actually now have a trial like this to reference. Yeah. And we need a lot more research, of course. But yeah, incredibly optimistic. What are your thoughts about, because I've been hearing a lot that they're calling Alzheimer's diabetes three, essentially, that it's like diabetes of the brain. What are your thoughts about, because I've been hearing a lot that they're calling Alzheimer's Diabetes III, essentially, that it's like diabetes of the brain.

What are your thoughts about that? And is that pretty sound? Yeah, so I created the first ever documentary looking at Alzheimer's disease through the lens of prevention, and it's the first ever documentary to really explore Type 3 diabetes. And in fact... It's amazing, by the way, just so my listeners know, you need to go watch this. Sorry, continue.

Yeah, it's called Little Empty Boxes, and it's on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, YouTube. And the researcher, the Brown University neuropathologist who coined type 3 diabetes, is in my documentary, which is just a dream. Oh, I didn't realize that that was... Yeah, she coined that term, which is now gaining traction, because we're starting to see that there are features in the brain

that are evident long before the cognitive symptoms, long before the accumulation of pathologic levels of amyloid plaque, like insulin resistance. And it's just incredible, because the connotation there is that there might be a diet and lifestyle factor that falls within our control when it comes to how our brains are functioning The connotation there is that there might be a diet and lifestyle factor that falls within our control

when it comes to how our brains are functioning and ultimately the fate of our brains. So it's super incredible stuff. But it's also eye-opening, because today, 90 percent of American adults have some component of metabolic impairment. Right? Like, at least one component of metabolic syndrome. And so the onus is on us,

this is going to be a ground-up movement. I think that, like, make America healthy again, I mean, yeah, it's amazing that we're talking about this here in the White House, right? It's incredible. But this also has to be a ground-up, bottom-up movement. And I think the onus is on each of us to do what we can to, I mean, not just to support ourselves individually and our loved ones,

but also to make this an equitable goal for the rest of the population, you know, like to make it so that more people can have access to whole, healthy, minimally processed foods, animal-sourced foods, you know, properly raised red whole, healthy, minimally processed foods, animal-sourced foods, you know, properly raised red meat, eggs, things like that. I mean, egg prices are now coming down, which is great, but they were very expensive for a long time.

And eggs are a cognitive multivitamin. So I think, yeah, we've got to kind of, like, reconcile all of these different features, but again, incredibly auspicious time. The fact that we're here now talking about this is just a dream. I mean this is so exciting and I'm so grateful to be working alongside you I mean we see each other all the time at all these maha events and it's so cool and I'm so grateful for your voice and and everything that you're doing and would love to have you come on to do a

full podcast at some point when we're not at the White House. Yeah let's do it. So I'll reach out when I'm coming to LA and we can record a longer episode. Ready to rock whenever you are, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is great. Thank you. Brigham, welcome back to the Real Foodology podcast.

I know. How much has life changed for both of us? Oh my God. Since we met last. It's crazy. Since we met last, you've literally been in meetings with the FDA. I have. And that's what I want to talk to you about.

So what are you talking to them about? What are you trying to push through right now? And what has their response been? What's amazing is, you know, everyone says it is the truth. People voted for change. They voted for reform. People who backed Secretary Kennedy and wanted him in this position wanted us to go fight the establishment and fight for the American people. I can say candidly, 100%, like in this limited first 100 days, like the amount of momentum

between the food dyes, the PBMs, the movement at the FDA, the overhauling and the cleaning up of the broken institution has been mind bogglingling. And like one real-world example would be having reached out to Stephanie and Secretary Kennedy and asking if there was a way to meet with the FDA within hours. They were emailing the FDA, setting up meetings to allow me to come in and sit down and try and tackle the things that we've been preaching for over five, six years about stem cells, peptides, the GLP-1s, the weight loss medication, which is also a peptide, and Big Pharma's monopoly on those compounds.

And so thank God for those opportunities. Now, that's the good news. The bad news is, you know, in those meetings, the FDA did a lot of talking, a lot of note-taking, and a lot of questions. So where we go from there, I don't know. It's so early, but it's a different world

when they're willing to have a discussion. Oh, I mean, it's night and day. I was just interviewing Kyle, who's the Deputy Commissioner of the FDA now. And I mean, I said to his face, I never thought I would have an opportunity to say this. I said, I'm so sorry, you've been the enemy for the last 20 years on my podcast,

but I know it was some mess that he inherited. He was not a part of that. But I was, I told him, I'm so grateful to finally have an FDA that's no longer asleep at the wheel and it's actually listening to the American people. And then not only are they listening, I mean, this report just came out today, outlining all the issues that we have been trying to address for the last 20 years and now they're starting to, um, they're releasing a path forward and how do we address all this stuff?

So it's so freaking cool. And when I saw you recently at the food die announcement, you were telling me that you had had meetings with the FDA and I just was so ecstatic to hear that you're getting to them and they're listening to you. I actually had a meeting with Kyle this morning. Oh, that's funny. I'm glad you're connected. The big challenge becomes I think data in data out, right? The same thing we talk about with AI and large language models, or anything in life. If you have bad inputs, bad information, you're going to make bad choices because your intel is bad. And so the intel is crucial. And historically,

you say asleep at the wheel, and I know Vani says that the FDA has been asleep. I feel like the FDA has not even been at the wheel. They've been letting industry drive the vehicle and we're nothing but passengers. And I really, really truly hope and believe that that's going to change. Because even my meeting with the FDA, their questions were, I asked them, how did you decide this GLP-1 backlog was over?

And their answer was, well, we met with industry and they said they can meet the demand. And my rebuttal is we called 30,000 pharmacies a month for 12 months and less than 6% of prescriptions were available. So data in, data out, right? We go back to if they're only getting half the story or half the narrative, how can they act in accordance with what's best for the American people? And industry is all about industry, right?

We know that the hard way. We've learned from big tobacco to big food to big pharma to big insurance. They're all there to drive profits, not people and lives and health span. So... Well, because people are just another number on a spreadsheet, and that's just the unfortunate reality of business. They're not looking at, you know, you, me, our families, they're not looking at us as humans,

they're looking at us as numbers on a spreadsheet. And so we need to get back to the place where we are actually concerned about the health of American people. And we also need to recognize too, that there are bad actors, there's bad players, and we've largely allowed them to be in charge for a long time.

And I think now Americans are finally waking up to that and now they're demanding better and different because I think for so long we have thought, oh, well the FDA is, you know, they have our best interests at heart. They're worried about, you know, food, drugs, and they're concerned about the foods that are on our shelves but everybody's learning now, like, oh no,

they were actually not taking care of this at all. In fact, there was loopholes, like the gross thing that Kyle and I talked about where they were just letting industry drive all of this and say like, oh, we want to put these additives in here. And so it's totally fine. Yeah, they're generally regarded as safe loophole. Yes. It's crazy. And that same loophole applies in medicine. Like a lot of people don't realize the FDA has our, the version of grass or gross, however you say it, for medicine, is the 510K approval process.

And I think I talked about this on the podcast. Literally 90% of the stuff in the operating room came through without ever having a human safety study. That is insane. It came through the funnel of the FDA through generally regarded as safe. It's called 510K. They use a daisy chain. If you can show anything in the marketplace that is comparable. But then you can continue anything in the marketplace that is comparable, but

then you can continue to add to that. So like you got to think of like the eye a rotary phone will have evolved into an iPhone over 30 years. Yeah, but we've never done the safety study on the iPhone because we based the patents and the exemptions off the rotary phone. You want to know something so insane after you came on my podcast and you talked about that I was blown away. I never heard anything heard anything like that.

My dad had to have a knee surgery. He had a knee replacement, I don't know how long ago it was, maybe it was like five years ago. The equipment that they used for the knee, the replacement was recalled. And he actually had to go back in and get surgery and have that removed and then replace the new one because they recalled the equipment that was in there and it was bothering him. And it reminded me of what you told me where essentially like they're not vetting

for any of this stuff. They're just putting it in and then later they're like, oh, oops. There was a recall on a prominent orthopedic company that was selling hips. And I swear this is a true story. Men started hearing their hips squeak during intercourse. And so like,

Well, is that the bad one? It was like a lawsuit of men's shoeing because when they would have intercourse. And so like, like a lawsuit of men shoo in because when they would have intercourse in the hip, it's these guys had to get the hip replaced because the squeaky noise or guys who couldn't handle it. And like, that was this whole debacle. And that was probably a decade ago, but more dangerous, less humorous, like, there were literally metal on metal hips and those metal on metal joints began to degrade

and the metal would sparse off and get into the blood and cause metal toxicity. And this is like the cascade of what happens if we don't truly dig in. But looking at this report, what's wild, and I said this earlier to Paul, like it mirrors everything that you've been saying, everything that your platform's been saying,

everything that Bonnie's been saying about everything that your platform's been saying, everything that Bonnie's been saying about it all comes down to food. And our food system and our diet and our lifestyle and our nutrition and our caloric intake and that is driving and perpetuating the chronic disease. And then we're let down by our systems that are safety nets. We're let down by our primary carers

because they're captured by the insurance companies. And then we're let down by the prescription options because that's captured by the big pharmaceutical companies. And then nobody along the way is even asking you about your diet at all. They're just throwing pills at you. It's insane. I was just talking to one of the FDA staffers and I was saying, look, I have the most to gain from GLP-1s. We compound GLP-1s. And I tell people, this is not a frontline defense. Like, diet, lifestyle, nutrition,

like, focus on basic blocking and tackling. This is like the safety parachute. This is the ejection seat. Like, when you need something and you're at a crisis level, that's when you reach for a prescription drug. Not as your frontline defense for diet, lifestyle and behavior. Change your diet, lifestyle and behavior. Taking a GLP-1 without changing diet, lifestyle and behavior is like brushing your teeth while

eating Oreos. Like, it's a diminishing return. It's not going to work the way you hope. Yeah. Well, and the second you go off the drugs, you're just going to gain all the weight back because you haven't learned all of the, you know, what you need to actually do. You haven't gotten to the root cause of it. Oh, my God. Well, one of the things on that report is the over medicalization,

which I know you're really you're very on all of this, which I'm super excited. And I feel like you're probably the reason that this is part of the report, which is really cool. I love that because it is what I think you and I talked about this before, too. The third leading cause of death in, which is really cool. I love that because it is what's I think you and I talked about this before too. The third leading cause of death in this country is medical mispractice or misuse or misdiagnosis. Like the third leading cause of death is us getting it wrong or medications not doing what they're supposed to do. I definitely think we're over medicated. You see with the GLP-1s, you see it with antidepressants, you see it in every aspect.

And with antidepressants, that's another example. The first thing a primary care will do in this country because they're so beat down and captured by the system and just can't get to everything and they're drowning, is they wanna fix you, they do wanna help. So you come in, you're depressed or have anxiety, they're probably gonna write you a depression or anxiety med.

Because that's the tool belt. Yes, and this type of reform, this type of focus, like when it gets future forward on the last page of the report, I don't know if you read that. I haven't read the whole thing yet. It's literally everything that I've been begging for. I'm so pumped. It's talking about empowering Americans to like eat healthier, make smarter choices through data and analytics and knowledge using large language models, artificial intelligence,

getting proactive and predictive, like Alan, all the things that I've been like banging the drum for for years. And then it's funny because the food is all the things you and Bonnie and all of these folks have been like screaming from a mountaintop. I mean, I can't, I'm so excited. I haven't been able to sleep recently,

because I've been every day, I'm so excited to like see what's happening next. I'm like, oh see what's happening next. I'm like, oh my God, there's so many amazing announcements. You've got to look at this and go, holy shit, I had a huge impact on what's happened here. Between you and Bonnie, so much of this is stuff that you've all been preaching. Well, okay, so another thing that I feel like you've had a huge impact on,

so there was a, I want you to tell my listeners about this, because you explained this so well, and I still don't fully understand this, but Trump just made what he claimed to be a historic announcement where he's going after the PBMs. Can you explain what that means? Yeah, so a lot of people call the PBMs the middlemen, and Trump even refers to them as the really, really rich middlemen. They're making a lot of money.

And they were historically middlemen, but what they've become is another profit center for the big insurance companies. So without condoluting it too much, PBMs were established to drive down the cost of prescription care and make our medications affordable. So Meemaw and Pupawk can afford their meds, right? And like, what they did instead is at some point in the late 80s, early 90s, they got acquired by the big five insurance companies. And so what a lot of people don't realize is 90% of the prescription drugs, early 90s, they got acquired by the big five insurance companies.

And so what a lot of people don't realize is 90 percent of the prescription drug care, 87 percent's the exact number, 87 percent of the prescription drug care in America funnels through a pharmacy benefit manager. They decide what medicine you get, what reimbursement you get, what your copay, your deductible is, how many medicines you can be on.

The pharmacy and your doctor have to fight with these middlemen to negotiate for you to be able to get your meds covered by insurance. And what they've done is use that as a tool to drive profits. So rather than negotiating down the rebates with big pharmaceutical companies, which is what they were supposed to do, negotiate down the rates, make it more affordable, as soon as the insurance companies acquired the middlemen, they negotiated up the rates.

And by negotiating up bigger dollars, like one example I can give you is the GLP-1, since we're talking about GLP-1s. The average wholesale price in America for a GLP-1 is $1,250. It's sold in India, the exact same medication, from the exact same company. sold in India for $150. That's insane, Britta. Why would we be paying 10X what we're selling these meds?

So Trump, in any governmental contract, the only reason I know this is from meeting with the DOD and the VA. I'm working with the DOD and the VA to try and bring stem cells to our special forces and our special operators. And one of the things in government contracts is you are not allowed to sell the product or treatment cheaper to the private industry than you do the government. So why would that not apply to pharmaceutical drugs?

Why can a pharmaceutical company price gouge the American government and the American people, but then turn around and sell it for pennies on the dollar in other nations, when we're the ones that fit the bill for most of the innovation and evolution of that compound? SB So that's what I've been hearing, is that essentially we've been fronting the bill for all these other countries, we've been fueling the innovation side of all of it.

But why are not other countries required to also pay for that? Because if we all came together and pooled together... And if we set an average wholesale price that's fair for the world, it would be more approachable, more affordable, and it would help Americans be able to get their much-needed prescriptions. Because it will take a decade to... Like, I believe in everything here, but it's going to take time to move the Titanic, right?

We have to overhaul our food systems. Things are moving fast in the first 100 days, like you and I at the food diet, meeting like mega announcement after mega announcement, but it's still going to take time. And in the meantime, patients are going to need accessibility to care that's affordable. And it's just not.

It's not affordable for the average American right now. The insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies are profiteering at all time record highs while American chronic disease is also at all time highs. I know. It's insane. It's all skyrocketing at the same time and people can't afford groceries. They also can't afford the prescriptions. We're in a really wild time.

So the executive order that Trump signed, essentially, what is he doing? Is he going after the PBMs? So in that executive order, Trump is essentially saying, if you sell a medication outside the United States cheaper, you have to match that price here. So it's kind of like what he's doing here. It's eliminating the middlemen on governmental payer programs. So like Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, it's a big move in the right direction and it is the best of intentions.

The only caveat I would give, because I'm transparent, is it unfortunately will not impact private payers and people who work for an employer, which is most Americans. It's going to benefit instantly anyone who is using a governmental payer program. But for somebody like me or you who may have Blue Cross or United, unless we cut the head off of the snake in a more direct way, I don't know. But this is a good first step.

It does lay the groundwork and pave the road to truly drive PBM reform. And if we can show that it works on governmental pay, the hope is that that cascades into the private pay sector and allows all of us to have accessibility to cost effective medicines, not just governmental payer programs. Yeah. I mean, in a perfect world, like how in your mind can we address this beast of the insurance companies? Do you see a solution or?

I think one of the solutions is you have to dissolve the PBMs. Yeah. Okay. So it's the first step. There are solutions that have worked at the state level. The state of Ohio cut out the pharmacy benefit managers and said, we're not doing this. They did their own analytics and they found that the PBMs price gouged them for $230 million in one year alone, and marking up and gap pricing on prescription drugs. And they said, you know what? We'll bring it all in-house at the state level. We'll negotiate pricing with the big pharmaceutical companies

off the average wholesale price, and they're saving 230 million. That's one state, and it's not even a big state. Multiply that times all 50 states. Now, multiply that times all of our governmental payer programs. Like what Elon was doing with Doge and exploring that. Holy shit. Like if we dug into what's happening in healthcare,

it would blow people's minds how much we're overpaying for everything that is involved in our healthcare ecosystem today. Well, and we talked about that a little bit on my podcast. So everybody listening, make sure you go back and listen to that. I mean, that was such an amazing episode and it blew everyone's minds. My audience was writing me for weeks after about that because everybody was like, what? Also, thank you that someone's talking about this

because everybody feels so screwed by their insurance companies. And then the doctors are screwed. Like I'm hearing all across the board, everyone is mad at insurance companies. And for good reason, the doctors feel like chained because they can't do much because they have to code everything with their insurance.

And then they're fighting to get payments. And so I'm hearing from a lot of doctors that they don't want to take insurance anymore because they're having to fight with the insurance companies. When we started Ways to Well years ago, people were like, what? You're going to do a cash pay and not? This was very out there.

I mean, it's eight years ago, I think, roughly, when we started this. People are like, nobody's going to pay cash for... And my thing was, guys, what you don't understand is in the insurance model, oftentimes you're paying more. Yes. You're not really getting the coverage they're portraying to you. Yes. You're being bamboozled. Even with blood work, they take tactics where they intimidate and

bully your primary care into not pulling the blood work. And then if your primary care does pull the blood work, a lot of times they'll leave you high and dry and the insurance company will say, we don't think there's medical necessity. The blood panel was $2,000. You owe us 30%. And they bill you the 600 bucks. This just happened to me. I literally just had to pay $1,300 for lab work.

I was so mad. Yeah. It happens all the time. All the time. And you,300 for lab work. I was so mad. Yeah. It happens all the time. All the time. And you've paid for that care. I know. That's the problem. Like, you have paid for that care, and this is a method. And I broke this down on, I think on Tucker Carlson,

where I explained, now it's the offense. When Luigi said delay, deny, depose, and he said that on these bullets, and what happened was terrible and tragic. But what he was trying to articulate, and what is the truth, is these insurance companies have learned to work the system. And that system of delaying, denying, and preventing care

allows them to profit billions. And it's all about quarterly earnings and hitting that number. And so it is, I think, less than 10% of people fight denied claims. So if they know 90% of the time, they're going to get away with not having to cover your treatment because you're not going to fight it. Their first step now becomes deny and force you to go through the rigmarole of fighting them, sending letters, calling them, taking time out of your busy day to argue over a bill.

And then they put you on hold and they delay you and keep you hung up. So you just finally give up and they grind you out. And that's terrible. But that's what the system's doing. And that's how it's built. Do you know about these crowdsourcing insurance companies that are starting to happen? No, I think you brought this up last time, though. I still need to research it.

Okay. I love the idea from what you were telling me. Yeah, because I wanted to know your... I'll send you the podcast because there's so much more that I would need to outline with you that we have time for in the episode right now. But essentially, I think Hector and I are going to join this actually, where it's like a pooling. I mean, there's 10,000 people in this crowdsourcing.

And when, let's say like, God forbid, one of us has to go to the hospital, we just tell the hospital we don't have insurance. And so then they way cut the bill down, because what people don't understand is that the hospital, the second they see your insurance, they're like, oh, they mark all the prices up. But if you tell them you don't have insurance, they're like, oh, we're gonna give you a massive discount.

And then our crowdsource share just pays that bill that would be way cheaper. And then oftentimes they work with the hospital to bring it down even further. And so they're essentially just paying for all your stuff. Yeah, it's brilliant. And you're spot on, like, the reason the hospital does that is they get paid a percentage of billed charges.

And then on average, it takes 90 days to get paid from the insurer, okay? And so it is, I say, it's all a lie agreed upon, right? They leave the patient with a big out-of-pocket co-payer deductible by design, the insurance company does. And the reason being, like, let's say you're a 25 year old kid, most 25 year old kids say, I'm healthy. I don't need the Cadillac insurance plan. I'll take the cheapest plan. That was me. Yeah.

Okay. But the problem with the cheapest plan is now you have an emergency and you tear your ACL. Your out of pocket expense, maybe $10,000. That's another way to keep you from going into that surgery. But here's the dirty secret. What could I have done the ACL for if you came in and said you were gonna pay cash? It's been a decade, so I'm not saying this is still the case,

but almost eight years ago, I was working on a plan just like what you're talking about. This was one of my ideas, working with the hospital systems. I could have got an ACL done for $18,000 cash. $18,000 cash, you're paying a $10,000 deductible. They're going to bill your insurance probably $75 to $100 something thousand dollars because they're only going to get paid a third of billed charges and it's going to take 90 days to get the money and they're going to have to fight with the insurance company the whole

way across. And then what happens is people go, well, wait a second, if there's a contract, how could the insurance company not just pay what's on the contract? Because, this is where I go back to it's a lie agreed upon, most of the time the hospitals are unable to collect 100 percent of the co-payer deductible from patients because patients don't have the $10,000. And so if the insurance companies and the hospitals

block heads and sue each other, the insurance company is able to go, you didn't honor the contract, you did not collect Courtney's copay. We think you lied to us. Oh, and you did it on 3,000 patients times a million dollars, whatever the number, right? And you're done as a hospital system.

So they do this delicate dance where they're both agreeing to the lie The the hospital knows it's gonna get paid less So it over bills in an attempt to get paid some of the money the insurance company knows that if they look under the hood, they're gonna find leaky oil and It's all this captured corrupt flawed system and who's really paying the bill is me and you. Exactly. Okay. So who is in charge of all of this and who can you go to? Cause you're getting meetings with the FDA.

Do we need to get you with in with like the NIH? Like, how do we address this? Like, how do we cut off the head of the snake? I think it's a huge initiative. And I think that, uh, you know, secretary Kennedy is aware of it and push him forward on it, which is very exciting. And I know his staff is passionate. Uh, I actually met with Senator Tuberville yesterday and Senator Tuberville, he was a

college football legend coach, but now he's senator I think for Alabama, I don't want to butcher it, but amazing guy, super passionate about the PBMs, he's been digging into his own state and he's like we need to submit a bill to Congress and we need to really push this. And so there are tons of allies, advocates, and people here at the Hill that are passionate about this topic and that are aware of the issue. And I do think with a secretary like Bobbi over HHS, it's going to be cool to see what we can get done.

I'm very optimistic. I don't want to be overly optimistic because we're still dealing with Washington, but I do think there's a pathway. But I think we have more of an opportunity and a chance than we ever have. 100%. So we got to- It's like what you're saying,

but we're talking. And look at this, look at the report. And our government's actually acknowledging it. Yes. They've never acknowledged this before. They've just been like, la la la la. No, we don't have an obesity epidemic. What are you talking about?

Like they're just, they've been gaslighting us forever. So now they're at least acknowledging it. So I'm super hopeful. I know you're super hopeful. I'll need to have you come back on and give us an update and maybe in the next five or six months so you can come in and be like okay this is what's happening to the FDA. This is what you know we're starting to talk about doing and maybe you guys at that point will have started doing some stuff too. Hopefully. Yeah. Hey thank you for having me on again. Thank you so much.

I mean this is incredible. We're at the White House right now. This is amazing. It's awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie.

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