Realfoodology - Natural Flavors | Ashley Nickelsen of B.T.R. Nation

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

163: Ever wondered about the term 'natural flavors' on your food labels? We've got Ashley Nickelsen, founder of B.T.R. Nation Bars and Chocolates, joining us to pull back the curtain on this industry mystery. Ashley gives us the real deal about food's natural flavors, telling us why companies opt for them, and if any are truly safe. She even lifts the lid on how the terms 'natural' and 'clean' are used and abused in the food industry. What's more, Ashley has some sweet news for you - an exclusive discount code for her products! Click here to get 20% off B.T.R. Bars with code REALFOODOLOGY Topics Discussed: 0:00:00 - Natural vs Artificial Flavors 0:07:20 - Positive Feedback on Low-Sugar Food Bars 0:16:49 - Fake Flavors' Impact on Palates 0:23:53 - Concerns About Natural Flavors and Labelings) 0:25:55 - Controversy Surrounding Vanilla and Natural Flavors 0:37:53 - Educating and Raising Awareness on Ingredients 0:44:46 - Greenwashing and Misleading Labels Problem 0:50:44 - BTR Products Check Out BTR Click here to get 20% off B.T.R. Bars with code REALFOODOLOGY Sponsored By: Wildway https://wildwayoflife.com Code REALFOODOLOGY will give you 20% off your first order Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic seed.com/realfoodology Use code REALFOODOLOGY for 30% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic LMNT Get 8 FREE packs with any order at drinkLMNT.com/realfoodology ARMRA Colostrum tryarmra.com/realfoodology enter REALFOODOLOGY to get 15% off your first order. Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast... Yes, natural flavors are slightly more natural than artificial, but now there's a lot of research that shows that they're quite similar. But there is nothing about natural flavors that are transparent or anything of nutritional use. It's just to make us want to eat more, right? So that's the point is it's designed specifically from that aspect of how much more addictive can we make it for people to buy more and obviously natural flavors are way cheaper than the real thing. Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host

Courtney Swan. And today's episode is all about natural flavors. I sat down with Ashley Nicholson, who's the founder of BTR Nation Bars and Chocolates. And you guys are going to hear more about them on the episode. Also, if you follow me on Instagram, you probably already are aware of these bars. Hopefully you've tried them. They are one of my favorite food bars on the market. And we go more into detail about why in the episode. But let's get into the meat of the episode. So we talk about what her inspiration was for starting BTR Nation Bars and what natural flavors are. We really go into extensive detail about why companies do this. What does it actually mean when you see natural flavors on the ingredient label? Are there any ones that are actually safe And why most brands actually don't even know

what's in their natural flavor that they're using. We also talk about the terms natural and clean. We talk a little bit about greenwashing and so much more. So I hope you guys really liked this episode. I love talking with Ashley. It was such an informative episode. And oh, before I go, she shared a code that I wanted to share with you, my listeners.

If you guys wanna try the BTR bars, you can go to btrnation.com slash discount slash realfoodology or you can just go to btrnation.com and use the code realfoodology and you're gonna get 20% off plus free shipping for the month of September. So again, that's btrnation.com. And with that, let's get into the episode. Before we get in with Ashley, if you guys would take a moment to rate and review the podcast, it would mean so much to me.

It really doesn't take more than 30 seconds to a minute. And it is so, so helpful to me in this show. Also, if you're loving the show and you want to share it is so, so helpful to me in this show. Also, if you're loving the show and you want to share it on Instagram, if you want to tag me at Real Foodology, it would mean so much to me. And I appreciate the support. Love you guys. I used to really love granola until I started turning around the back of the package and looking at how much sugar was in it and also learning about how oats were affecting my digestive system, my guts. So I was really stoked when I found this brand Wildway. They make grain-free granola and they are committed to

providing wholesome and nourishing food options that empower individuals to lead healthier, more vibrant lives while also respecting the environment. They are certified B Corp. They're 100% for the planet, plastic neutral and carbon neutral. They are also made from 100% real ingredients. There's no added sugars, preservatives, seed oils, or flavor neutral. They are also made from 100% real ingredients. There's no added sugars, preservatives, seed oils, or flavorings. It is just a wholesome blend of nuts, seeds, dried fruit, and spices. It's also soft and chewy snacking granola. So it's great for on the go. You can either like throw it on top of yogurt, you can throw it on top of a smoothie, or you can also just like take a handful of it and just, you know, eat it straight out of the bag if you want. They have really delicious flavors. I was

actually literally just snacking on the banana nut. I have it right in front of me right now. And the ingredients are so simple. It's dates, organic bananas, walnuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, cashews, pecans, coconut oil, cinnamon, sea salt, and vanilla bean. All ingredients that you recognize, it's all real food and their flavors are awesome. They have coconut cashew, they have apple cinnamon, dark cinnamon, sea salt, peach pecan. Can you imagine on like a summer evening or even going into fall doing peach pecan with like a scoop of coconut ice cream? Oh my God. And vanilla bean espresso. So imagine having a bowl of that in the morning alongside your morning coffee. Not only is this a delicious granola, but it's also a company that we can wholeheartedly trust that is actually making food, like real food that's

healthy for us, that nourishes our bodies. You know, I get asked often, how can we as people make an impact on our food industry? And one of the ways that we can do that is by supporting companies and brands that are actually doing right by the people. And this is one of those brands. So if you guys want to check them out, go to wildwayoflife.com and use code realfoodology and you're going to get 20% off. Again, that's wildwayoflife.com, code realfoodology. Do you drink filtered water? Hopefully you do. And hopefully by now you know that tap water is loaded with all sorts of pharmaceutical drugs, pesticides, heavy metals, fluoride, chlorine, et cetera. But what I'm here

to talk to you about today is if you are filtering your water, you've got to make sure that you're replenishing the electrolytes and the minerals back in your water. One of the ways that I love to do this is with Element. It's spelled L-M-N-T. And by looking at the package, you may initially feel a little bit of a shock with the amount of sodium in there. But if you go back and listen to my episode with Dr. James DeNick, who wrote a book called The Salt Fix, he talks all about how we, for the most part, are actually not getting enough salt. We forget that sodium is an imperative

part of our fluid and electrolyte balance. We actually need sodium. It's imperative to have it in certain levels. And the majority of Americans are getting most of their salt from processed packaged foods and fast foods and from eating out. So if you are not eating out a lot, which hopefully you're not, but that's a discussion for another day, most likely you're probably actually not getting enough salt. So this is one thing that I love about Element is it has a really high sodium level and then it also has potassium and magnesium in there. So this is one thing that I love about Element is it has a really high sodium level, and then it also has potassium and magnesium in there. So it's replenishing your electrolytes. Also, I love the saltiness of it. There's a couple of different flavors that I love the most. The

grapefruit is hands down my favorite. I also really love the raspberry and the watermelon. And if you're concerned about the natural flavors, they also just have a raw unflavored as well that has no flavors in it. It just has the sodium, potassium, and magnesium in there. Element gave me a deal to share with you guys, which I love them so much for this. If you guys go to drinkelement.com slash realfoodology, that's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash realfoodology, you're going to get a free sample pack after you make a purchase. So you get one packet of every flavor so you can try all the different flavors and then see which one you like the best. So again, that is drink element.com slash real foodology element is spelled L M N T. Ashley, how are you doing today? I'm doing so well. I'm so excited after being a loyal listener for a long time now. This is such an honor to be a guest next to Food Babe. I don't know, this is just

such a big moment, so I'm so excited. Oh, that means a lot. Thank you. I'm very, very excited to have you on. I actually remember, I don't remember the timeframe, but I mean, I feel like it was at least a couple of years ago of you DM'd me and you were like, Hey, I created these food bars and you amongst like other people were an inspiration for me to make these bars. And you were like, I'd love to send you them. And I was so excited and I was so flattered. And then you sent them to me and I was like, Oh my God, also, these are amazing. Like, I love your story. I loved the ingredients. They taste really good. And I share this a lot on Instagram, but I don't know if I've ever talked about this on the podcast, but

I'm not really a food bar person. There's only like two or three that I eat and yours being one of them, BTR, because I love the ingredients. It's the perfect match of like really clean ingredients, no natural flavors. They also taste really good. And they actually fill you up because in my experience, a lot of them are loaded with a bunch of garbage. There's so much sugar. And then my biggest beef with food bars is that I'll eat one and then like 20 minutes later, I'm starving and I'm looking for another snack. Yep. And that is exactly what we were going for is something that was low sugar, but without all of the other additives and a transparent food label. And just being honest and building this community around our mission to help fix our broken

food system. And you are an inspiration to me because there's just... I feel like there's so much out there and it can get consumers to feel a bit overwhelmed. But at its core, we're just trying to provide education and truth and transparency where there's just not much currently. So I'm so inspired by you. That means a lot. Thank you. Well, I'm inspired that you made this food company. I mean, I'm so in awe of people that start things from the ground up. And I think it's so cool. You had a vision and you actually executed and did it, which is really cool. And I want the listeners to

hear a little bit about how you started. What was the inspiration behind and what's your story behind BTR? Yeah, so BTR is very personal to me. BTR actually stands for Be Bold, Tenacious, and Resilient. And that's my parents' personal mantra. And I started the company. My why is really what drives me and gets me up in the morning. Both my parents were diagnosed with very rare forms of cancer.

My mom with a leomyosarcoma and my dad with appendiceal cancer. And we were eating absolute junk out of hospital vending machines and hospital cafeterias for nearly four years. And it takes a toll on your body. It's absolutely appalling what they serve in hospitals. And I just made note of all of this at the time. And I have a background in food studies and biochemistry. So I've always loved food and tinkering in the kitchen. And so I took to the kitchen and started to create my own snack bars. And cinnamon cookie dough and dark chocolate brownie actually were made in my kitchen before anything else. And I would bring them to the hospital.

And my parents loved them. My mom passed very quickly. So she really didn't see a lot of behind the scenes and what was going on. But my dad was an entrepreneur at heart and he loved this. He actually incorporated the company and said, I hope you do something with this one day. I think that this is a winner. And I think he would be so ecstatic that we are doing something with it. My mom would probably be like, what are you doing? Why would you start a food company? It is so hard. The industry is rough. It's because you're battling a lot of big problems within the food industry. But at the same time, we're making a difference. And it's when they both passed away, I knew I was going to have to do something with this one day. And I actually worked at a supplement

company for many years and taught myself everything about this industry. And then at the very end of 2020, early 2021, I was like, let's do this. And I took my recipes to a co-man and said, this is exactly what needs to be in them. I am not changing them. I'm not adding natural flavors. I'm not adding all this other junk. I'm not adding sugar alcohols. Let's make it happen.

And I found one that was willing to do that. And it's super hard because all of our bars have different ingredients. It's one command I spoke to. It's like, oh no, we don't do that. We can't be responsible for all of those ingredients because every recipe is so unique. They were like, you can't scale that. There's no way. You just have to make the same bar and then just throw in a different flavor agent. I was like, no, we're trying to do something different in the industry. We're disrupting it. Otherwise we're just like everyone else. So what's the point? So, and they were like, oh no, well we can't work with you. And I found a great partner and here we are.

That's really amazing. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I was actually going to be my next question. So living in LA, I feel very fortunate that I'm in a community of people here that are, there's a lot of founders'm in a community of people here that are, there's a lot of founders here. A lot of people started their own businesses. A lot of people are in like the food and beverage company or in the food and beverage space. And I have a newfound respect for people doing it the right way like you, because I don't think the general public understands uphill battle of truly creating a real food product. And I, and this is not to give

these other companies that are doing it in a bad way. So like just to take them off the hook, but it is so hard to make really good, clean, healthy food right now, because we have made it so difficult because there's, like you mentioned, it's really hard to find manufacturers. It's really hard to find people that will actually source the ingredients. It's really expensive. So can you talk a little bit about that struggle? Because I really want people to understand. Oh my goodness.

It is increasingly harder, I feel, all the time. Because it also has a lot to, like food has to do with taste, right? It has, food taste is king. So everything we do has to be accessible to the American taste buds, but the American taste buds have been hijacked over the years. And I don't use that phrasing lightly. It's just, it's so challenging to be on the shelf and looking around and picking up a product. I mean, even crackers have natural butter flavor in them. And I'm like, what is going on? It's so challenging to find actual real food because the consumer taste buds, they just don't get it. So when we're launching a product, we don't use any natural flavors.

So we have to do a lot of education that our strawberry shortcake bar is not going to taste like strawberry flavoring. It's going to taste like strawberries, which don't have a strong scent, right? Like if you buy a carton of strawberries at the farmer's market, yes, you're going to bite in. It's going to be super juicy and delicious, but it's not going to have that immediate response of that very high sweetness level. It doesn't have a smell. So you're not going to open up a carton of strawberries and all of a sudden this overwhelming strawberry flavor is going to hit your nostrils. It's really hard to do. Sourcing obviously is extensive. We can't create a new bar every single month. We get that request all the time where,

oh, just do these limited edition drops. We can drop probably one to three SKUs a year because it takes us eight to 12 months to source, to get all of the certifications, to get all the certificate of analysis, like everything, all the ingredients are third-party tested. The final goods are third-party tested. It's a process. So, and it's not cheap either.

So it's expensive and trying to figure out how to do all of that as a new and emerging brand. And we're not venture-backed. We did raise a seed round. So we have some angels that are just so excited to be on our cap table and be a part of this journey. And I'm so grateful for them. But we will go out and raise venture capital because we need capital to be able to make this happen. So there's a couple of barriers there is that the time, the money, and actually doing this education around taste.

So we see our customers that... 99% of our customers are like, I have been waiting for a product like this to exist because I try and make something like this in my kitchen, but I can't do it all the time. And this is why BTR exists and we run through them in our family. But then we'll see 1% of people that are like, this is not sweet enough for me. This doesn't taste like... We've gotten two pieces of feedback on strawberry shortcake so far out of the tens of thousands of bars or hundreds of thousands of bars at this point that we've shipped. But this doesn't taste like strawberry shortcake. I need it to be sweeter. And why doesn't this taste like... I have a strawberry lemonade drink and

why doesn't it have that strawberry flavor profile? I'm like, you're not going to get that here. So you, we can't make a birthday cake bar. We can't make, we tried to make a salted caramel bar with like lacuma and I'm going to do a whole Instagram reel about this, but we tried so hard, but it doesn't taste like your typical strawberry, your typical salted caramel. So we ended up squashing it because we figured it was good, but it wasn't, it didn't taste like caramel. So how do you, how do you do that? So a lot of it requires telling the story, you know, sharing about where we're coming from. It's not that I don't, you know, I eat products that have natural flavors. We have no choice, right? Like it just exists. But I try not to feed my daughter products with natural flavors if I can

help it. And you know, if it happens, it happens., it happens. This is not a perfect world. And that's why I love you so much. And I think the last episode was with Dr. Lucas. And this is not... It's not perfect. We don't want anyone to think that this is on the consumer either. I think for me, we'll sometimes get on TikTok, people being like, Oh, no, we should eat whatever we want. But it's up to the brands and up to the food system to be able to put stuff out there in the market that people know what they're eating. So they don't have to worry about turning over the label and be like, oh, should I get this? Like, is this ingredient good? Why is this questionable? Like that shouldn't even be a thing. So it's up to the brands to do better. And that's what we're trying to do. Yeah, that's so cool. When you're really setting the precedence for hopefully more brands to come, you know,

come down and because they'll, because people will see that you're doing it and they will be inspired to know that they can also do it too. But I mean, you brought up such a great point about the fact that our palettes are literally being hijacked right now. And you know, those people that you were saying that wrote those comments about the strawberry shortcake bar, they probably have no idea that they're just, their palates have been so changed because these companies are adding in these flavor profiles that don't exist in nature. That's what's so crazy about it. I mean, I think hopefully the majority of people listening to

this podcast, I know everyone is very informed listening to this podcast. So people probably know this already, but you know, companies hire flavor scientists and their entire role is to create these fake flavors. And they also create them in mind with wanting to make them more addictive so that people eat them more. Right. And the problem with our, our palates being hijacked like this is that we are getting further and further away from knowing what real food actually tastes like. And, you know, I was really shocked. I actually posted about this on my Instagram last weekend. My boyfriend and I were really lucky

to get to go to Telluride Film Festival. And one of the movies that we saw, they were just handing out free candy and like popcorn to everyone. And they were handing out Reese's Pieces. My boyfriend grabbed a box and I was like, oh my God, these were my favorite candy growing up. Yes.

Same. I wasn't a peanut butter cup lover. That's the truffle cups. We had to do better. But Reese's Pieces are so good. They're so, what is it about them? Not anymore. Or at least for me, because I don't eat any of that stuff anymore. And I can't even tell you, I could not even tell you last time

I had Reese's pieces probably 20 years ago. And I was really intrigued and I was like, oh, let me, let me try a couple. And I had a couple, I almost spit them out. Like I'm, I'm not even being dramatic or like overhyping this, they literally tasted so disgusting to me because they don't taste like real peanut butter to me because I don't eat that fake stuff anymore. Yeah, it's crazy. Your palate changes the more that you, I don't want to say train it.

That's not the right word. There's the more that you eat real food. And I actually, I was doing a taste test when we first launched our truffle cups, a Reese's cup, and I haven't eaten a Reese's in, I mean, six, seven years. And I could not believe that it doesn't, there's no chocolate taste whatsoever. So you get no chocolate, you get like this fake peanut flavoring taste. And like, it's, it doesn't have like the crack that you should have when you bite into a nice piece, like that snap that you get when you bite into a beautiful piece of chocolate. It's like melty and mushy. And people ask us like, oh, well,

are you going to make something that's going to melt more like on your fingertips? I'm like, no, that's not how real chocolate is. Like that's not real cacao. Obviously, cacao melts, but like that like mushy mess of like peanut butter chocolate, it's just, it's the industry, the food system is broken. And that's, I mean, that's how we talk to everyone that we know is it's broken, but it's not the consumer's fault. So we never want to feel like we're putting it, like the burden on the consumer. It's like the brands need to do better. The industry needs to do better as a whole. And let's move towards this entire philosophy of real food. And then consumers can feel

like they're trusting brands again feel like they're trusting brands again, like they're trusting what they're putting in their body. That's the place I hope we get to. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, because our food system is so broken, we need to be more educated, you know? And I mean, it really comes down to that. And you're totally right. I completely agree with you. This is an industry and also our government issue too. You know, look, I am the last person in the world to want government overreach. That's not what I'm saying, but we do need someone to step in and be like, guys, this is like literally killing us. You know, like we need to have some sort of regulation around what is allowed on the shelves because

we're eating ourselves to death, you know, for lack of a better word. And it sounds so extreme, but it's true. And you're right. This is not on the population. However, however, it is on us to educate ourselves and know how to make the better decisions and do the best we can. Again, it's not about perfection. It's about educating ourselves.

And it's also not about shaming ourselves for our past decisions either. It's like, okay, we didn't know, but now we know. So now we're going to do better. And we're going to pick the brands and the companies that are actually creating healthy foods for us because these flavors. Okay. So I really want to go into natural flavors because this is kind of one of your biggest things, obviously, this is what we've been talking about is that you decided to not use natural flavors. And there's a lot of misconceptions around what natural flavors actually are. And part of the problem is what we were just talking about is that we don't actually know what the real taste

of foods are anymore because everything is being hijacked with these really intense flavors that don't exist in nature. So what is natural flavor and why is it not necessarily so quote unquote natural as it sounds? So I've done so much research over the years and have spoken to flavor houses. And it's just really scary to me because it's not transparent. And there are just some food manufacturers who don't know they'll use natural flavors in their products and they can't share what's actually in the natural flavor. And to me, that's a no-no. So I've got a lot of food sensitivities. Thinking back to my parents and their battles, I wanted them to just know what is in the food that we're eating. So if you contact a company and they're like, sure, let me give you what's in the organic

natural flavor. It's usually, especially the organic natural flavors in the market, are usually a little bit better. But the reality is that a natural flavor, and I have to put them in air quotes here, is anything that's derived in nature. So it can be spices, it can be bark, it can be anything from animal to plants. That's the base of the natural flavor. So okay, so we're starting there and that's how the government defines it. And okay, so that's the base of the natural flavor. So, okay. So we're starting there and that's how the government defines it. And okay. So that's a good thing. However, then there's 52 up to, I mean, I've heard hundreds. I don't know. There's a lot, the jury is out. So there's not true understanding of how much is actually added in there, but there's definitely preservatives and solvents and other chemicals that are added to the natural flavor to make it a flavor. So there's a lot of manipulation that goes on in the lab that yes, natural flavors are

slightly more natural than artificial, but now there's a lot of research that shows that they're quite similar in theory. It's just except the artificial flavor is something that's man-made to replicate something that is natural. It's very, it's, it's so confusing and there really is not a need for it and a place for it because not, I know food does not have to, every single thing does not have to serve nutritional value, but there is nothing about natural flavors that are transparent or anything of nutritional use. It's just to make us want to eat more, right? So that's the point is it's designed specifically from that aspect of how much more food,

how much more addictive can we make it for people to buy more. And obviously natural flavors are way cheaper than the real thing. So natural strawberry flavor is gonna be so much cheaper than using freeze-dried strawberries. And we have to use a lot of freeze-dried strawberries to get that same strawberry essence

that you would get by just using a little bit of the natural flavor. So it's much cheaper for food companies to use those natural flavors, but no one really knows what's in them. So I remember talking to a colleague about this and they're like 10, 20 people in the country really know what's in some of these natural flavors.

Because if they're not organic, they don't even need to be disclosed. And that's the thing that really gets me going. Because if it was that, it's just the skeptic in me. If it was that good for us and a good alternative, why can't we just put it on the nutrition fact label of what's actually there? It's just this catch hole and a loophole that food companies can use to make their products cheaper, to make the shelf life last longer as well. Like real food should be going bad. So like our bar is having much shorter shelf life than the bars that are on shelf. Most

bars have, you know, two, sometimes three years. And it's like, how is that a thing? So it's used for those purposes to be addictive for the aspect of being cheap and then to have the shelf life to be longer. I love that you just brought up that point. I tell people this all the time. I'm like, you want your food to go bad. You want it to be real. You want it to go bad because if it can sit in your pantry for five years, that's disgusting. You don't want that in your body. It's crazy. Yeah. This umbrella, the fact that there's just this, it's like an umbrella term for all these different chemicals, additives, whatever, is what's really concerning. There was one, when I learned about this, the food babe actually

talked about this like 10 years ago or something. I believe it's a vanilla flavoring that comes from beaver anus. It's shocking because it's true. So apparently beaver anal glands have like a vanilla scent to them. And it's usually labeled as a vanillin in products. And I have to say it's has been removed from a lot of products, but it's still there 100%, especially in chocolate, like that cheap chocolate you're going to find in drugstores. It is there. And I cannot believe that. It's kind of like high fructose corn syrup to me. Why are we still using high fructose corn syrup and things? I feel like we've progressed to not... Everyone knows it's an additive that's not necessary when there are forms of sugar, of coconut sugar, of dates, of even cane sugar that's better than high fructose corn syrup. So why are we still using it? Vanillin, at least I feel like it's

out of a lot of better for you products, but it's still there on the market and it is beaver anal glands. So I don't know the exact process of how it gets there. I don't even think I want to know. I know, right? It's just so interesting what is allowed to be in our food system these days. Yeah, it's really shocking. And the fact that companies are not required to be more, like they're not required to disclose what is in these natural flavors is really concerning. I actually, I posted on my Instagram this weekend. And so if you guys wanna, you can either watch the video on my Instagram

or you can go directly to Dram, Dram's Instagram. So Dram is one of my favorite sparkling waters. They have no natural flavors. And I was on their page and the founder actually sent an organic flavoring that's normally used for sparkling water. And this is organic natural flavor, by the way. She sent this off to a lab and just had it tested because she was saying that the whole reason, very similar to you, that she started her company is that one, she could not

find any sparkling waters that didn't have natural flavors. And two, she couldn't get anyone to tell her what was in the natural flavors. So she went and did the lab work herself. She sent off a sample. So smart. Love that. I wish before I recorded this that I had written down all the ingredients, but it's probably better for you guys just go to watch the video anyways. But she posted the results in a video in her reels and showed all the different ingredients that were showing up. And again, this is organic natural flavor. This is not even regular natural flavor. And there was a couple of them that she pointed out specifically. One of them has very concerning links to popcorn lung, which is terrifying.

And this is in something that's being marketed as organic and healthy for you, sparkling water. Wow. And it's, I think the thing that gets me the most is, well, you know, it's less than 2% on the nutrition facts panel and not all products either. It's less than 2%. But most products, they'll try to keep it because it's such a concentrated flavor that you don't even need to use that much. But over time, it's just the American consumer. We consume a lot of goods. So if we're having one bar or even especially drinks, because we're drinking multiple times a day on multiple occasions. So if we're having eight drinks and they have natural flavors and we're doing that 365 days for 10 years, I mean, it adds up. It really adds up. I'm always seeking ways to improve my fitness,

boost my metabolism and get that perfect glowing skin. I mean, aren't we all right? Well, I've stumbled upon something truly amazing. It's called Armra colostrum. Colostrum has been long regarded as a superfood that my mom actually got me on years ago because it's really good for the immune system. But then I found Armra colostrum and I am obsessed. It's not just a supplement. It's actually a whole food superfood. It's a proprietary concentrate of bovine colostrum. And if you're wondering what colostrum is, it's the first nutrition that we receive in life packed with over 200 essential nutrients. Since I started using it, my skin feels so vibrant and fresh. It's like I reactivated my hair growth and reduced the puffiness on my face. And I haven't gotten sick once since I started taking it. There are peer

reviewed studies that show that colostrum is more effective than the flu shot. Wild, right? Now here's the magic. Armoring colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, empowers fitness performance and recovery. It also helps with hair growth. I've shared this a bunch on my Instagram. I went in to see my hairdresser recently and he was pointing out all of the new hair growth that he was seeing. I definitely think it's from the colostrum because it's the only thing that I've changed. And it's sustainably sourced from grass-fed cows, which we love. I usually mix it with cold liquids. And my favorite thing right now is to mix the watermelon flavor with matcha. And then I add a little lemon electrolytes in there. It tastes like a watermelon lemonade. It's so refreshing and it's sugar-free. It's so good, especially in these hot summery days,

but make sure you do not mix it with anything hot or sugary because that can affect those bioactive compounds. All right. So here's the great news for all you listeners out there. We've scored a special deal for you. Get 15% off your first order of Armra. Just go to tryarmra.com slash realfoodology and use the code realfoodology to get this offer. Again, that's tryarmra, T-R-Y-A-R-M-R-A.com slash realfoodology to get on this offer. I hope you guys love it. Did you guys know that in your mouth alone, there's more bacteria than there is the entire human population? How wild is that? And I know it sounds kind of gross, but it's really important to know that these 38 trillion microbes living in, on, and around you are actually super critical to your health. This is what we call your microbiome. And this non-human half of you helps you with daily functions like digestion, support your gut

brain access, and they can even help affect your complexion. If you're struggling with skin issues, maybe digestion issues, mood disorders, all of these can be connected directly to your microbiome and the balance of good and bad bacteria in your gut. Now we have both, we have good and bad bacteria, but we always want a good, healthy balance of good bacteria. And that's where taking a good pro and prebiotic comes into play. And while we talk a lot and hear a lot about drinking kombucha, eating yogurt, eating kimchi, kefir, et cetera, These do contain probiotics, but unfortunately the majority of those probiotics never make it through our stomach acid because they get burned off. So I really like Seeds Daily Synbiotic. If you struggle from any sort of skin issue, maybe like

psoriasis or eczema, or maybe chronic yeast infections, a daily probiotic like Seed will really help you. And the reason why I'm super into seed specifically, it's a broad spectrum two-in-one plant-based prebiotic and also 24-strain probiotic. It's a proprietary formulation of 24 distinct probiotic strains in scientifically studied dosages. I actually had the founder on my podcast, if you guys want to go back and listen to that episode, it was absolutely fascinating and all about what really makes seed stand out from the rest. You can hear all about the systemic benefits. One of them specifically is their proprietary engineered two-in-one capsule that protects the probiotics through the whole digestion process to ensure that these probiotics actually get to your gut and help populate your gut.

Some of the side effects that you might see when you start taking a good probiotic like seed include gastrointestinal or GI function, skin health, so improvement in your skin, whether you're dealing with acne or maybe psoriasis or eczema. It also helps with heart health, gut immune function, gut barrier integrity, and micronutrient synthesis of vitamins B9 and B12. So you may even see an improvement in energy as well. It's also known to really help with improving digestion as well. So that could look like better, healthier poops too. And who doesn't want that, right?

Finally, last but not least, their compostable packaging is one of my favorite things about this product. So when you first get your first seed package, it comes with a glass jar. It's a really beautiful green glass jar that looks beautiful on your counter, which is also something that I just, it's a little added bonus. And it also comes with a little travel case. So you hold onto that jar

and every month you get a biocompostable bag that holds your new monthly supplements in there. And then you just dump the supplements in the jar. So it's also environmental friendly and we're not putting more plastic than landfills, which is also a huge, huge issue right now. So if you guys wanna start and try Seed today, go to seed.com slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology to redeem 30% off your first month of Seed's DS01 daily symbiotic.

Again, that is seed, S-E-E-D.com slash realfoodology and use code realfoodology. So I'm curious because in my own experience, I have found that there are some natural flavors that are okay if the company is transparent about it. What is your thoughts about this? Like, is there ever a safer natural flavors? Like if someone requests a COA from a brand or a brand's like really transparent about what's in it. I love that because I think. Is that a possibility? Yeah. My, my biggest pet peeve is the lack of transparency. So I, I think that food science and having a background in biochemistry, right? Like food science is getting more advanced, but I don't think that we should be relying on lab made products for the

bulk of our diet, right? I think that if this is a snack, I get a little frustrated specifically like with condiments and sauces and bread and things that like, there's no need to have natural butter flavor or natural cheese flavor. Like I just don't understand like eat cheese. It's to me that it's in nature already. So, but I understand obviously in the snack space with evolving flavor profiles, if they're being transparent, if the COA is clean, I'm going to put clean in air quotes as well too, because that's kind of a catch- air quotes as well too, because that's

kind of a catch-all phrase as well too. What does that mean really? So I think though, if the company is being transparent and they are confident enough in what they're putting in, I think that's already a testament to the fact that they're doing their research, they're sourcing those flavors correctly. And we are making strides in that area. But I think that, you know, I don't love that. Oh, I think this is what I was talking about before. I don't love the like everything in

moderation concept because of course, right? Like that's just, that's just, you know, the default, right? Is, you know, we can't be strict with everything that we're doing in our lives because that's just going to cause more stress. And for someone, I have generalized anxiety disorder. I have OCD. There's lots of things. However, if we stress on everything, that also brings on inflammation in the body. So it's important to just obviously let some things go. But once again, when it comes to the brand, that's where if the brand is going that extra mile to get the COA, to share that, to be transparent, to me, that's a marker of a really, really solid good brand that cares about what they're doing and making an impact in the food system. It's brands that hide things that really frustrate me the most or that try to deceive

customers. That also really, really frustrates me when people refer to things as natural on the front of the pack and the first ingredient when you flip it over is some type of sugar alcohol or not even real almonds. It's crazy to me when I see, especially protein bars, they're just the absolute worst, which is so funny because they're supposed to be nutrition bars and supposed to have some concept of nutrition in them. And almonds are like the last ingredient in every single thing. You need a biochemistry textbook to open up to read the ingredient list. That to me is just so

sad at the sake of making a low sugar or a low fat product. And we are a low sugar brand, right? But we're naturally sweetening with nuts and spices and dates. And we use a touch of pure monk fruit that has no sugar alcohols in sight. Like our monk fruit, that's another thing is we do a lot of education around this. Our pure monk fruit is $500 a kilo. Sugar alcohols are $8 a kilo. Cane sugar is a dollar and change. So it shows you the quality of the ingredients that you're sourcing. But we have to do education around that, especially if people get monk fruit confused with sugar alcohols. It's a fruit. It is literally a fruit. It looks like a melon. How can we educate and raise awareness about what these ingredients

actually are and be transparent about it? Yeah. And that's really what's most important. And that's why I stress this all the time on the podcast and on my Instagram, we need to be putting our money towards companies that are actually doing right by the public. You know, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but it's so frustrating that we have so many companies that are making their, their products are more about the profit and not about the health of the people. This is food. I mean, when you really get back to the very, very basics, food is what we need to survive. Why have we made it to be where food all of a sudden needs to be fast, cheap, and easy? We're not concerned at all about like, I'm speaking in generalities, but I mean, as a society, it's like, how did we get to this place where something that we need that's absolutely vital to living, we have made just this like

cheap commodity now. And this is on this brands and it's also on our government that's not regulating these ingredients. And it's so incredibly frustrating because I remember, I mentioned this earlier with the food babe. I was on the natural flavors like 10 years ago, only because I'd been following her because she was really on it early on saying avoid natural flavors. I remember back then I was like, oh, this is so easy. I can go to Whole Foods and there's not a natural flavor in sight, or I can go to Sprouts or I can go to Natural Grocer or whatever. They're everywhere now. They're everywhere in the organic natural brands. I picked up this, I'm not going to put them on blast,

but there's this company that I really like and they have a couple of products that I've loved for a really long time. And those products, thankfully, are still clean. But I was like, oh, they came out with a food bar. I'm gonna read the ingredients. Natural freaking flavors. And I was like, why are we putting this in all of our,

I was like, the organic natural food brands were safe. And now those aren't even safe. This is so incredibly frustrating. You get squeezed as a brand, you get squeezed from all angles because you need to make things cheaper because you need to be able to reach the masses, right? And I get it because our whole premise at BTR is also to make things accessible, right? We're thinking about re-imagining the modern vending machine. There's not going to be a bar for $4.99 in the vending machine, right? You have to make things accessible to the masses. And that is like right now, our chocolate is slightly higher priced. We know we need to bring that down. And when we can achieve economies of scale,

we can bring that down, not by sacrificing ingredients, just by making larger, running larger production runs. And that's the whole goal. I think the industry as a whole, you know, food has kind of become like tech, right? Where it's like, okay, you get capital, you need to have a 10x exit or 20x. I mean, in spirit, sometimes the multiples are like 18 to 26x. It's crazy. And it's really breeding this society of, okay, well, the more... This company exited at $500 million and $5 billion when we're making products that people are consuming and putting in their bodies. Food, supplements, wellness, beauty. We should really be focused on making... Maybe we have to right? Because a business has to pay their employees, right?

Treat their employees correctly, build this culture. But I mean, how much profit are we, are we looking for? Right? I think that's the thing. I talk to my husband about this all the time and that's, we live in a capitalistic society, right? So obviously people are looking for as much profit as humanly possible, but it does come at the sake, like, can you, Can you make a product that's cleaner? Once again,

in air quotes, can you make a product that you care... Your customer can trust more for 3 or 4 cents more and you take a 0.5% less margin? That's my question. And it's a resounding yes, coming from the other side and the brand side. You can take a 1% margin hit, still be profitable, still pay your employees, still have an amazing group of talents and pay fair wages and all the things, and also be putting out products that consumers can trust. And I just wish more companies aspired to that. But it's hard. It's definitely hard because you're getting squeezed from all sides because grocery stores want you to be cheaper, so you can be more accessible. And then you are also raising capital, right? You need to make sure that your margins are in a good place. So I feel... I really feel it

for all the brands out there. It is really, really difficult. And the only thing... There's no answer. But for me, I just have to stay true to our values. Whenever I'm sourcing ingredients, if it's a no, it's a no. We just don't bring that product to market then. Because I can't get the ingredients at a cost point where it makes sense for the consumer to even purchase. We don't bring that product to market. But then at the same... On the flip side, I'm like, oh, but there's a white space there and the consumer needs that product. How can we do it? So that's why we're 80% D2C. We're doing some really exciting nationwide launches in the next couple months. So stay tuned. But it's being D2C, we can at least educate the customer and have an opportunity to talk one-on-one to them to explain

why we're doing this and what we're doing and that we're always trying to lower prices, but here's where we're at right now. I feel like it just all comes down to transparency. Yeah, absolutely. You have sort of talked about this, but I think this is important for people to really understand. Why are we putting natural, clean, all of these in air quotes? Yeah. And we even, I mean, we refer to ourselves when I have to think about it and when I have to talk about it to a buyer, we do say clean ingredients because that's a claim that resonates with them. I put it in air quotes because it's just not, it's not regulated. Anyone can say it, anyone can call it. And, it's not regulated anyone can say it anyone can call it

and you know we have to call bs on it when it doesn't make sense to us and I think that's so challenging is that there's just not one definition for what that looks like I mean I was talking to a friend the other day and I was like oh we don't use natural flavors and she's like why not natural is good so it's and that's the. There's just this misperception because natural used to mean good, but now everyone is putting it everywhere and it just has, it's lost. It's, it's essentially lost its meaning. So for us, we actually on our new packaging, it's on the strawberry shortcake bar now that we're transitioning all of our other packaging where it says real ingredients on the front. Cause I personally like real better I mean I guess the alternate is fake ingredients like people are like what does that

really mean but real at least means it's coming from the earth that's what I hope people get that that meaning and then we actually have an arrow to the back that says flip us over and see so people can see like we're not hiding what's on the back like we're not hiding what's in our product like actually flip over the product take a look and see see what you think and see if it works for you. And that's the whole point is it comes back to transparency and being clear with your messaging. But yeah, natural and real, natural and clean are being used way too much. But it is what it is. It's just a way to kind of box in a concept for a consumer to understand in like three seconds that they have on the shelf space. That's so cool. I love so much that you guys do that because, you know, the front of the packaging

for most brands, it's just a billboard. It's just an advertisement for their company. So many brands do this, something called greenwashing, where they essentially depict a natural scene, you know, maybe it's hens roaming green pastures or whatever it is, you know, maybe it's hens roaming past green pastures or whatever it is, you know, and they'll write natural or clean or whatever. And like you said, none of those terms are actually regulated. So any company can do that. Someone can be making a fake meat brand and write natural and clean on the front and then you read the back and it's highly like hyper-processed. So that's what's really cool. Yeah. I mean, we actually, I mean, every company should do this is really use

like a regulatory like label claims attorney to actually review everything because I feel like a lot of people take risks on the products that they put out there. So that's something that's really critical for us. And technically, people shouldn't be putting the word natural on their product. It's not going to stop people. But it's definitely something that is greenwashed, but also really shouldn't be on the front of pack. And hopefully, we start to see these things over time, the more educated that consumers

get and the more that consumers push back against brands, I feel like that's going to, that's only going to help us as a whole industry. There's nothing more comforting than a warming cup of hot chocolate before bed. I know coming from me, that may sound a little counterintuitive because you're probably thinking, how is hot chocolate healthy for you? But I've got a little hack for you and it's called Organifi's Gold Chocolate. First and foremost, the most important thing here, it has one gram of total sugar in it. So you get the satisfaction of having a comforting, cozy little sweet treat after dinner without all the loaded sugar. And it's like with this one, you get a twofer, a two for one,

because you also have the added bonus of things like turmeric, lemon balm, turkey tail. There's also magnesium and there's reishi in there. So whenever I drink this at night before bed, it gets me really sleepy and ready to wind down and it really improved my sleep. There's also a blend in there that helps with digestion. There's acacia, cinnamon, ginger, black pepper, and turmeric. So if you have this after dinner, it's also going to help with your digestion and it's going to get you ready for bed. My favorite thing about Organifi products, outside of them being all organic, they're also glyphosate residue free. If you have listened to this podcast long enough or paid attention to my Instagram, you know that glyphosate is a huge, huge concern for all of us in this country. Glyphosate is a known carcinogen that is being

sprayed. It's an herbicide that's being sprayed on all of our crops that are not organic. And it's also being leaked into organic products as well, organic foods. So this glyphosate residue free stamp is so incredibly important. And it's one of my favorite things about Organifi outside of their actual products, which I love. If you want to try this hot cocoa from Organifi or any of their other products that I mentioned today, make sure that you go to Organifi.com slash realfoodology and you are going to save 20% on your order. Again, that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. We can demand better from these companies, you know, and the first way that we do that is we

put our money into the brands and companies that are doing right by us, like BTR, for example, which is stay tuned to the end guys, because we do have a code to share with you if you do want to try her amazing BTR bars. But before we go, is there anything else that you want the listener to know that we didn't go over? Oh, that's a good question. I could probably talk for hours about the industry. And I think that it's, I would encourage the listener to get to know the brands that they buy from. And this is, you know, I think back to my days, you know, I'm a nineties baby, born in 88. So I'm dating myself there. I think back to when I was 10 and 11 years old. And I mean, we never... I mean, I guess we looked at ingredients, but we went with what the household name was. And now, thanks to social media, thanks to people like you sharing about what's really

in our products, things have changed. But I do encourage people to really get to know the founders of these companies. Founders want to get to know their customers. And I do encourage people to really get to know the founders of these companies. Founders want to get to know their customers. And I'm the one on Instagram still. So many people are like, you have to give up social media because at one point, you're not going to be able to manage it. And I'm like, well, that is not going to happen for a while because at the absolute most fundamental level, I want to get to know the customer and what the customer wants. And not even a customer, like our community. So I encourage and recommend you to message these brands because hopefully, fingers crossed, it's a founder or founding member of the team

that's monitoring social media and can answer your questions. Because that's the way that we're going to be able to get truth out of brands, as well as be able to connect and get to know the core mission and why the product exists, as opposed to what's on the shelf and that you can able to get to get truth out of brands as well as be able to connect and get to know the core mission and why the product exists as opposed to what's on the shelf and that you can only digest in a couple of seconds. So that's what I'd like to leave the listeners with is, you know, come and talk to me on Instagram. Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. And it's so cool how transparent you are. And it's so important. It is so needed right now. And you're really paving away in the industry right now, which is really, really cool. So all of your hard work,

all of your hard work is definitely paying off. And I'm so excited for you. Also, we didn't, you mentioned your chocolates a little bit, but also try the chocolates guys. They are so freaking good. Thank you. They are a labor of love. Oh my God, that product line, it is so hard to make. We sustainably and ethically source our cacao from regenerative farms. It's a beast of a product, but we're doing it. And I'm hoping that we're helping change this low sugar chocolate space because the low sugar chocolate space desperately needs some help. Usually the first ingredient is malitol because that's usually the sugar alcohol that brands flock to. And we can do so much better. And I think... I personally love dates, but dates can have a polarizing taste and texture for people.

But we have this process where we're able to get the dates ground into this beautiful date sugar and melding it with the chocolate. Oh my goodness. It's so good. And you wouldn't even know it's from dates. So thank you for shouting out the chocolate. It's, um, labor love that product. Well, and you wouldn't even know that it was low sugar either, at least for me, like I've, I'm used to eating like lower sugar stuff, but I don't really like the stevia or the monk fruit sweetened chocolate. Cause it doesn't melt in your mouth. It's just this weird kind of like texture. And so I have yet to really find like a sugar-free chocolate that I like. And yours, I love it. It's not loaded with sugar,

but it has just the right amount where it like melts in your mouth. The taste is really good, like well done. Really good. Thank you. Thank you. It's that subtle sweetness that we're going for. So yeah, love that so much. So I want to ask you a personal question that I ask all my guests. So what are your personal health non-negotiables? These are things that you do daily in order to prioritize your own health. I wish I was better at this and I was preparing for this question, but the two things that are non-negotiables that at least I do every day is walk, movement. I've always, always lived in a city. So I really do get a lot of movement.

My husband and I, we have never had a car in... Actually, ever. I'm trying to think. I had a car maybe like 15 years ago. But we don't drive. So we walk everywhere. And I go for at least an hour walk, an hour walk a day and then sunlight in the morning.

So that is the first thing I do besides get my daughter up and get her ready and excited for the day. But sunlight and walk every day. And I try to stay hydrated, but it usually fails me. So those are the non-negotiables that I go for. Those are good ones. I also do that too. Those are also part of my list.

It's so hard. We can't be perfect, but we try, right? So we're trying to at least do the best we can. So. Yeah. Well, thank you again so much for coming on. I want you to share with everyone where to find your bars, what the code and everything is and where to find you if you want to be found online. Yes, absolutely. So the code is realfoodology and it's for 20% off on our website. So we're at btrnation.com. We sell on Amazon. Our bars are in 200 plus retailers. So we're in all the air one markets. We're actually on end cap this month. So that's exciting. Mothers, Bristol Farms. And then our chocolates are newer. So we are going into retail. So sneak peek, stay tuned.

We've got a lot of big, exciting launches coming up, but for now, the best place at least where you can get a discount is our website. And where can they find you guys online too? Your Instagram? Oh, at btr.nation. Please come talk to me. Thank you so much. This was an awesome episode. Thank you for having me, Courtney. Oh my goodness. This was so much fun. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry.

The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.

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