Realfoodology - Nature Therapy + Culinary Medicine | Dr. John La Puma

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

EP. 170: Ever wondered how simple lifestyle changes can transform your life? Alluring as it sounds, even small tweaks to your diet, spending more time in nature, and learning a few culinary tricks can make a significant impact. We navigate through this thought-provoking conversation with Dr. John La Puma, a leading internist and founder of Chef MD. He enlightens us with his experiences and research on nature therapy and culinary medicine, discussing the effects of nature deficit disorder and seasonal depression disorder and how they can be mitigated. Topics Discussed: 0:00:00 - Nature Therapy and Culinary Medicine 0:05:28 - Animals and Nature's Benefits on Well-Being 0:17:40 - Nature Engagement and Vitamin D Importance 0:28:46 - Snacks, Anxiety, and Culinary Medicine 0:34:13 - Chef MD 0:40:36 - The Importance of Fresh, Flavorful Food 0:53:49 - Cooking Tips and Knife Skills Check Out Dr. John La Puma: Chef MD's Big Book of Culinary Medicine Online Instagram Sad Quiz Nature Deficit Quiz Sponsored By: Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Wildway https://wildwayoflife.com Code REALFOODOLOGY will give you 20% off your first order PALEOVALLEY for 15% off go to Paleovalley.com/Realfoodology BiOptimizers: Magnesium Breakthrough www.magbreakthrough.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 10% off any order. Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Produced by Drake Peterson & Edited By Mike Frey

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. You know, 93% of our time is spent inside, about 86% in buildings and 7% in vehicles. That leaves only, you know, 7% outside. And that in a day is not very much. People think, you know what, to be in nature, I have to go to Yosemite or the Grand Canyon. Nature isn't way out there. It's just what we've been talking about. It's us as animals. Nature is the wind, the breeze in your curtains. It's the dog over there sleeping.

If you have an herb plant, you could just have a little plant on your desk or a mint plant on your windowsill inside for the whole fall and winter. And you have the beginning of continuing your nature engagement by using your senses. Welcome back, friends, to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Swan, and I'm, as always, so excited about today's guest.

I have on Dr. John LaPuma. He's a board-certified, internationally recognized internist. He has been called a secret weapon by the Wall Street Journal and is a regular health, nutrition, and culinary medical contributor in the national media. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Refuel and Chef MD, and he's also the co-author of Real Age Diet, Cooking the Real Age Way. He also co-founded something called Chef MD, a Freddie Award- winning health media brand promoting culinary medicine. And he co-taught the first nutrition and cooking course at a US medical school with Dr. Michael Rosen. Not to mention, he also co-hosted Lifetime TV's

Health Corner for nearly five years. And he also hosts PBS's Chef MD Shorts and PBS specials on diet and fitness. I loved this conversation with him. He speaks on diet, wellness, lifestyles, stress management, healthy aging, nature therapy, and culinary medicine. Something that we talked about a lot was something called nature deficit disorder. We also go into seasonal depression disorder as well at the very end. So make sure you guys stick around for that because fall is here and winter is coming. We talk a lot about nature. He has a lot of amazing resources as far as the science goes for how important it is for us to get in nature and not only get in nature, but he also has some tips for people that are living in

cities. So let's say you're living in Chicago or New York and you don't have access to get in nature and go outdoors every day. He has some really great tips for that. And we also talk a ton about cooking because he started Chef MD and this is one of his passions and expertise. He is melding the science of nutrition and also the culinary experience of cooking into one because he, like myself, believes that food can not only be really healthy and nutritious for you, but also taste freaking delicious. And he's so good at this. He gives so many amazing tips for cooking. We also go over, if you don't feel that confident in the kitchen, tips and tricks that you can start cooking and get over that fear of getting in the kitchen and cooking. This was such an amazing episode.

The hour flew by. I loved chatting with him. I think you guys are going to really love this episode. And as always, if you could take a moment to rate and review the podcast, it means so much to me. I really appreciate your support and love you guys so much. How's your life been lately? It feels like mine is a never ending hustle, constant juggling responsibilities, endless to-do lists. There's a lot on my plate right now. And it seems that it's impossible to live without overwhelmment nowadays. And I'm not even talking about how this stress affects overall wellbeing, sleep, productivity, and the immune system. Stress slowly infiltrates your life, silently robbing you of magnesium, which is a vital mineral that our body depends on. It's a vicious stress magnesium deficiency cycle. Have you heard about it? It's something that many

of us, especially in America, really struggle with. In simple terms, stress strikes, your body loses magnesium, sleep becomes elusive, energy and productivity plummet, and stress levels skyrocket, and then more magnesium escapes your body. So how do you break this cycle? Well, I found a game changer, and it's called Magnesium Breakthrough from Bioptimizers. This magnesium contains all seven forms of magnesium, which might support stress management by promoting muscle relaxation, regulating the nervous system, controlling stress hormones, enhancing brain function, boosting energy, and improving sleep. I personally take it every single night. I take two capsules before bedtime and it really works. Give it a shot, break free from the vicious cycle, and you've got nothing to lose. Bioptimizers is so confident in their products that they offer a

risk-free 365-day money-back guarantee. And if you don't see any results, simply claim a refund, no questions asked. It's a win-win. Seriously, you don't see any results, simply claim a refund. No questions asked. It's a win-win. Seriously, you guys, I've been taking this magnesium for a long time now. I travel with it and I take it nightly and it has really helped me immensely. So make sure you visit magbreakthrough.com slash realfoodology and intercode realfoodology and you're going to get 10% off any order. The magnesium, but also anything else you want from Bioptimizers. And for a limited time only, you're also going to receive some special gifts with purchase. So again, the offer is only available on magbreakthrough.com

slash realfoodology. That's M-A-G breakthrough. So it's B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H.com slash realfoodology. Do not miss an opportunity to improve your wellbeing and your life. I used to really love granola until I started turning around the back of the package and looking at how much sugar was in it and also learning about how oats were affecting my digestive system, my guts. So I was really stoked when I found this brand, Wildway. They make grain-free granola and they are committed to providing wholesome and nourishing food options that empower individuals to lead healthier, more vibrant lives while also respecting the environment. They are certified B Corp. They're 100% for the planet, plastic neutral,

and carbon neutral. They are also made from 100% real ingredients. There's no added sugars, preservatives, seed oils, or flavorings. It is just a wholesome blend of nuts, seeds, dried fruit, and spices. It's also soft and chewy snacking granola. So it's great for on the go. You can either like throw it on top of yogurt, you can throw it on top of a smoothie, or you can also just like take a handful of it and just, you know, eat it straight out of the bag if you want. They have really delicious flavors. I was actually literally just snacking on the banana nut.

I have it right in front of me right now. And the ingredients are so simple. It's dates, organic bananas, walnuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, cashews, pecans, coconut oil, cinnamon, sea salt, and vanilla bean. All ingredients that you recognize. It's all real food. And their flavors are awesome. They have coconut cashew, they have apple cinnamon, dark cinnamon, sea salt, peach pecan. Can you imagine on like a summer evening or even going into fall doing peach pecan with like a

scoop of coconut ice cream? Oh my God. And vanilla bean espresso. So imagine having a bowl of that in the morning alongside your morning coffee. Not only is this a delicious granola, but it's also a company that we can wholeheartedly trust that is actually making food, like real food that's healthy for us, that nourishes our bodies. I get asked often, how can we as people make an impact on our food industry? And one of the ways that we can do that is by supporting companies and brands that are actually doing right by the people. And this is one of those brands. So if you guys want to check them out, go to wildwayoflife.com and use code realfoodology and you're going to get 20% off. Again, that's wildwayoflife.com,

code realfoodology. First of all, John, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. I actually found you on Instagram a while back. One of my followers, or I prefer to say someone in my community on Instagram, DMed me and they were like, you have to get this guy on your show. He's a regenerative farmer. You also started something called Chef MD, which I'm really excited to talk about. So thank you so much for coming on today. Courtney, I'm a big fan of yours as well. It's so great to meet you, not in person yet, but in electronic life. Let's get to it.

Oh, who's the dog sleeping in the back? Oh, yeah. Oh, I love that you can see him right now. That's my dog, Turkey. Yeah. What breed? He's what we call a Chowini. It's a Chihuahua dachshund.

Wow. So he's my little, we call a Chihuahua. It's a Chihuahua dachshund. Wow. So he's my little, yeah, he's my little buddy. He looks huge compared to most dachshunds. That's so great. I know. I wish, well, it's hard to see him right now, but yeah, he's such a joy in my life. Beautiful dog. Thank you. I appreciate that. Dogs are great and actually part of nature-based medicine because they not only offer unconditional love, which we could all use more of, but also because they connect you to other beings and remind us that we're animals like they are.

Yeah. Oh, the unconditional love part is so important. You know, there's another aspect of that too, and I'm probably going to get pushed back here because whenever I talk about this, people always say, but what about the parasites and whatever? But studies do show that if you live with a dog in your home, you actually have a more robust immune system because you're not only being exposed to all the elements that you're being exposed to, but also having a dog bringing in different stuff, it exposes you to different things and essentially gives your immune system like a workout. That's true in the studies of Amish children, which are actually well-known in the literature, in that Amish kids who are exposed to farm animals

on farms under the age of five are more protected against a number of immune disorders, asthma, eczema, other skin conditions. And it's part of, as you know, the hygiene hypothesis, where we don't have bacteria in our systems that come from nature very much. But when we do, when we're very young, those bacteria can allow us to develop antibodies, which strengthen our immune system and other parts of our immune system strengthen as well. So it's certainly true that being around farm animals for young children can be helpful despite parents worry that something might go wrong. And I wouldn't be surprised to that being having an animal at home improves immunity for

other reasons if not direct biological ones and that would include the sense of companionship the decrease in loneliness the some people actually sleep with their pets which i don't advise because it can interrupt human sleep a lot. And in the medical office, when I see patients, if they're having trouble sleeping, the first question I ask is, who else is in the bed with you? And if there's an animal, then the animal should not sleep in the bed because even though we don't realize it, we are restless at night and the animal as well and can easily interrupt sleep. So I think probably having animals at home is a very good thing for not just immunity, but for our psychological states and well-being.

Yeah. And don't we release oxytocin when we pet them? Is that true? We do in tiny, tiny amounts. It feels good to have a hormonal reason for it, but I don't know if that's the reason that they, for example, make us happy. I think it's a powerful, powerful tool that most people don't use, except now, as you know, therapy dogs and therapy horses are fairly common in alternative settings for people who've had injury. In fact, care farms, which are part of the healthcare system in the Netherlands and in the UK, which are residential farms, which have almost always animals that people who have had mental problems or physical problems like PTSD or stroke and need rehabilitation,

care farms have animals at the center of them so that people learn to care for animals instead of being cared for themselves all the time. So these are actually part of the healthcare system in the Netherlands. There are thousands of care farms. There are only about a dozen or two in the United States because they are struggling for financing and often are nonprofit. But I think they're a vastly underutilized resource and animals and caring for animals, in that case, chickens and sheep and goats and sometimes

dogs and other animals as well, is a central component of the four or five hours a day that people spend caring for others. And that kind of residential treatment, I think, deserves a lot more look in the United States at all levels of economic ability. It doesn't seem like in many ways we, in Europe, they do things so much better, at least from like a medical standpoint than here in the United States. And I will also say too, that there is science that shows that when you are not so focused on yourself all day, that you actually have something else, like a living being to take care of, whether that's a baby or a pet, something outside of yourself to not always be so focused on that it's really good for our stress levels, anxiety, and just overall, it just helps us be a better human because it's not all about us

anymore and it's about other people, other animals in our lives. That's really true. And it's especially true of nature exposure and nature engagement. When we're in nature, we use our parasympathetic nervous system. It's not our sympathetic nervous system or our fight or flight nervous system, which is epinephrine and adrenaline. It's fleeing from a tiger when there isn't a tiger, or even when there isn't a tiger. What if we're in nature and we are fleeing from a tiger, though? That would be a different story, right? Then you definitely need to use your agro-endocrine system and like all the resources you can find including any vehicles but yeah i i do really think that nature allows our attention to be drawn and one of the

underestimated things about nature is that it is social, just like you've mentioned, that it is, you run into other people, preferably not tigers, and to other people and other beings in nature. And it does take you out of your head, out of the rumination that is so common for people now who have lists of things to check, have notifications, have alarms of all kinds to go off. And nature isn't like that. It draws your attention. It makes you use your senses instead of your brain to be exact, precise, and meet deadlines. And your senses, which most people have forgotten, I do this at medical meetings all the time, medical conferences where I give talks, most people can't, they kind of go, their senses are one, like see, hear, smell, well, what's the other two? But it's on your face, you know? You can hear, touch, see, smell, taste. And that five-point little ditty on your face reminds you what your senses are and then reminds you how to engage with nature, which is all about senses and feeling

and not about what you have to do tomorrow or what you have to do tonight or what are the deadlines you face so rumination actually has been shown to be reduced in the prefrontal cortex where it lives in the brain with a 90-minute walk in outside of palo alto in a meadow instead of down a street in a meadow by mri scan by a guy named greg bratman who did this study and published it in 2015 is now at the University of Washington in Seattle and he showed that rumination goes down when you're in the meadow versus when you're walking down a very pretty urban street and so there's a neurologic reason for this as well as a social one as well as a nervous system one okay so i'm this is one of the main reasons i was so excited to bring you on because you talk about something called nature deficit disorder and you you just talk a lot about you mentioned this in the

beginning of the episode nature-based medicine you talk a lot about nature and the importance of it and the role that it plays in our lives um I found this to be very pertinent in my life, especially when we were going through really, really in the depths of the pandemic. I obviously could not go to workout classes. I still wanted to move. I wanted to be outside, get vitamin D away from people. I know this can be a little controversial, whatever. I wanted to be outside and be in nature. And I was going for like one to two hour walks every single day. And I noticed that it really helped me with the panic that I was feeling about everything. You know, we didn't know what was going on. The anxiety also had helped me get vitamin D from the sun. I was moving my body. And I also read something about, and this was kind of

what you were saying, but I want to hear you talk about it more in depth, is this thing about your senses and how nature can really have an effect on your brain as far as like, I was told that the sounds that you hear, the things that you see, there's something about it and the effect that it has on your brain. That's right. So you said a lot of really interesting things, Courtney. Vitamin D controls 3% of your genes. It's important to have the right level. Under 20 is deficient. Everybody should get it measured and take a supplement if you don't get enough vitamin D in your food. That's an easy fix. And you can also get 30 minutes of light on your arms and legs twice a week between March and November in most parts of the United States. Without sunscreen. Right. Which converts the inactive form to the active form

in your body so that you make your own. But for most people in the five months that the sun is at too acute an angle to activate that in your skin, you need to have a supplement because it only lasts for about 30 days. Tomorrow, actually, later in October here, I'm giving a talk at Harvard and citing exactly the study that you just mentioned about college students and COVID and their response to being outside and having nature engagement during the pandemic or not. And those students who had nature engagement, who more often visited a park, which is the standard they used, had much less anxiety, much less stress, much less psychological discomfort during the pandemic than those who did not have that nature engagement. You know, 93% of our time is spent inside, about 86% in buildings and 7% in vehicles. That leaves only,

you know, 7% outside. And that in a day is not very much. We spend about 11 hours a day on devices and 82% of us live in cities, which is great, but 97% of the United States is not urban. So there's a lot of land and people think, you know what, to be in nature, I have to go to Yosemite or the Grand Canyon or be in the Pacific Ocean or be out in the Palo Alto Meadows. But you don't. There's a way out of that. And that's because nature isn't way out there.

It's just what we've been talking about. It's us as animals. Nature is the wind, the breeze in your curtains. It's the dog over there sleeping. It's the lettuce in your salad. It's a park down the street. It's if you have an herb plant, you have big plants behind you. So do I.

But you could just have a little plant on your desk or a mint plant on your windowsill inside for the whole fall and winter. And you are, you have the beginning of continuing your nature engagement by using your senses. So each of these things contributes to what is now becoming a big body of knowledge. When I started in this, there were only about 500 peer-reviewed studies. There are now over 3,000 peer-reviewed studies about the relationship between nature and physical health and mental health. And the database is growing really by the day. There is NIH funding for scientific studies of nature and the brain,

especially. There's very good evidence in kids that myopia, which is nearsightedness and is about 50% of this country, about 90% of Asia, is stalled and in some cases actually reversed with free play of two hours a day outside. There's a great study of a nature pill, which is 20 to 30 minutes of an activity of your choice anywhere you like, three times a week outside, reducing your salivary cholesterol, cortisol level rather, the stress hormone that's emitted in your saliva by 20 percent beyond its normal diurnal variation again reducing stress and stress-related medical problems um i could go on about this there's there's a great study that's really started all this which is published in 1984 by a landscape

architect who found that i was doing a study of hospital interiors who found that, who was doing a study of hospital interiors, who found that people who had an operation and had a window view of trees had stayed in the, versus people who had the same operation were staying across the hall and had a view of a brick wall. The ones that had a hospital window view of trees stayed in the hospital a day less, used less pain medicine, less opiate medication. The nurses thought they had a better hospital stay. It actually changed hospital design so that most hospitals now have windows in most rooms. And if you, God forbid, ever need to be in a hospital, you need to ask for a room that has a view of nature because it will change your hospital stay. Wow. That's really fascinating. I think I've actually heard that before. And I'm curious

if there's any effect on the brain if, let's say, God forbid, anyone listening or myself ever ends up in the hospital and we don't have a window or the window doesn't have views of nature outside, would it have a similar effect if you put something on like Nat Geo or put something on your iPad that just showed beautiful landscapes? Would that have a similar effect on the brain? You know, that has actually, it's being tested in a number of places. At Texas A&M has a great research group that is studying exactly this, of putting hospital videos of nature all around hospital waiting rooms and in clinics. There have been studies of posters in doctor's offices of the three most helpful views or most popular views among people who look at nature, which are landscape, running water, and mountains, and assessing anxiety for patient visits. People who are doing an exercise cycle or a treadmill

and have in front of them a nature view, which is really different than competing against other riders or rowers or runners, but just are watching a nature view, or have a window to outside in the exercise suite have similar reductions in blood pressure and pulse and improvements in mood to those who are exercising outside. But one easy thing to do for anyone who is on the fence about it is if you have a choice, exercising outside is medically better for you

than exercising inside. I wrote about this for Medscape and LinkedIn and a bunch of other portals where it's really clear that this is a kind of unknown tool in doctor's toolkits to help people control their blood pressure, pulse, rate and and and heart rhythms more readily than we have this doesn't really i don't know if this has been shown true for for lifting which is you kind of need weights and or at least resistance um and that's often inside but certainly for running and for um cycling and for spinning all that that stuff is easily done with either a view of nature or outside. Well, and you know what's really interesting about actually getting outside versus running inside? So Zach Bush talks about this all the time, and I'm assuming you're aware of his work.

Yeah. and he talks about how we always we want to try to expose our microbiome to as many different other microbiomes of nature outside as possible because the more we expose our bodies to different places in nature or just outside of the environment in general, it's kind of similar to what I was saying earlier about the pet situation where

the more we expose our microbiome to other microbiomes like for example, if you were to go out on a hike or go to the beach and you expose yourself to that, it has a significant effect on our microbiome and our overall immunity. That's right. I mean, I have a lot to say about that too. I think Zach Bush is right about a bunch of stuff. I think he's right about glyphosate and the four billion pounds a year that we put on crops. I think he's right that most of our food so dramatically that it affects our own microbiota, which include not just the gut, which is, as you know, about two kilograms, which is about the

same size as the brain. And of course, the gut microbiome and the brain have many of the same functions. In fact, there are more neurons in the gut than there are in the brain. There's 95% of the serotonin that we make is made in the gut. The gut is 150 times more genes than we do because of all those bacteria and fungi and viruses in archaea, which make up the microbiome in the GI tract. Having biodiversity in a garden gives you biodiversity in the soil, although feeding the soil is the best way to create biodiversity and health in plants that you grow. So I think that where we're going with this is to have more and more regenerative agriculture. And that's now a theme that's being picked up by, and has been picked up by some very big players in agriculture who are not the moms and pops of organics and real organic, but major players who understand that it will help

not just be better for the soil, because all farmers, no matter whether you're a conventional or organic or anything in between, care deeply about the soil. They care deeply about plants. They care deeply about animals. No one wants to harm anything because we realize that that's our livelihood. But there are ways of making it even better than we found it. And that's what regenerative aims to do.

So that's going to be more and more. We're going to hear more about that in the next three to five years. And I think it's going to have a similar force to the certified organic label. We'll see. Snacks. Let's talk about snacks. Everyone loves snacks. And I feel like it's hard to find a good snack that actually fills you up and that you really crave and like to eat. I am obsessed with the grass-fed beef sticks from Paleo Valley. If you guys follow me on Instagram, you probably saw recently that I went, I literally went to this show downtown and my girlfriends were making fun of me because when

I met up with them, I literally had a Paleo Valley beef stick sticking out of my pocket. My friend goes, are you packing meat in there? I was. I always have a Paleo Valley stick with me either in my purse or I always shove a bunch of them in my car and just leave them in there for emergencies, for snack emergencies. I'm always bringing them places on hikes, you name it. I always have them on me because they're such a great snack. It's a great source of protein. They taste really good. They come from 100% grass-fed beef and they're really high quality. It's only organic spices in there. You're not going to find any

other fillers. And you know what I love so much? Their beef comes from 100% grass-fed cows raised entirely on natural grass pastures by family farmers right here in the US. And they also are committed to supporting regenerative farms, which is really important. If you guys are not into beef, if beef is not really your thing, they also have pasture raised turkey sticks, and they also have pasture raised pork sticks. So they have a variety of different flavors and all different kinds of meats to serve your meat desires. And if you guys go to paleovalley.com slash real foodology, you're going to save 20%. Make sure you go to paleovalley.com slash real foodology. You're going to save some money. Also check out everything else they have on that website. They

have superfood bars. They have organic super greens. They also have bone broth protein. They have grass fed whey protein. They have essential electrolytes. They also have bone broth protein. They have grass fed whey protein. They have essential electrolytes. They also have a super food golden milk, which is going to be really good going into fall. So make sure you guys check it out, use the code realfoodology, and you're going to save some money. Do you struggle with anxiety like I do? I have been pretty open about my journey and my struggles with anxiety throughout the years. And therapy is one of the things that has really helped me out a lot. EMDR therapy specifically has helped me

through a lot of my traumas that I went through. But another thing that has really helped me throughout the years with my anxiety journey, if you will, is CBD. I really like Cured Nutrition's CBD. I love that you can go to their website and you can actually see their third-party testing that they do from their lab. So you can actually go to the website, see how much CBD is in all of

their products, and they update it all the time. You can hear more about this in depth in my episode that I had with the founder of Cured Nutrition. And my favorite ones, I would say, I really like the CBN Night C caps. And then I also like the Zen CBD caps as well. They also have a calm oil, which is really great and a topical. So if you're dealing with any sort of injuries or maybe muscle soreness, they have a topical that you can put on. They also came out more recently with some Serenity gummies, which is like low THC relaxation gummies, which are really great. And if you follow me on Instagram, you know that my dog Turkey loves their CBD dog treats. He like freaks out every single time I open the pantry, he follows me in, he immediately goes

for the bag and he starts begging for them. And they're great. They're really high quality ingredients, all organic, have really high quality CBD. My boyfriend just got a golden retriever puppy more recently, and we have been giving the dog treats to both of our dogs when we go for road trips, and it's been really helpful. And the dogs love them. They taste really great. So if you want to try any of the products that I talked about today or anything on the Cured Nutrition website, make sure that you go to curednutrition.com slash realfoodology. That's C-U-R-E-D nutrition.com slash realfoodology. And you can also use code realfoodology and it's going to save you 20%. I have actually had a bunch of people on my podcast talking about regenerative

farming. Gabe Brown, the farmer who's been really, yeah, he's amazing. He's been speaking out a ton about regenerative farming. I've had the founders of Kiss the Ground on and yeah, it's something I'm really passionate about. And it's another thing that I really loved about you and your passion, because this is, you know, in alignment with what you're doing right now too. And, you know, while we're talking about like farming and I guess like that kind of makes me think about cooking. So you started something called ChefMD, which I'll let you explain. But from what I understand, you were part of creating the program that teaches medical doctors how to cook, right? Well, I helped, yes. It's amazing. So Michael Roizen and I taught the first culinary medicine class in the country in 2003 at the State University of New York in Syracuse, upstate. And now, happily, 70% of medical schools are teaching culinary medicine.

And so we were there right at the beginning. And I wrote a book called Chef MD's Big Book of Culinary Medicine, which is the standard in the field, and did a TV show for a lifetime for five years, co-hosting Health Corner and creating the ChefMD brand with partners who are terrific marketing people. And the idea of ChefMD is that you can blend the art of cooking with the science of medicine to create restaurant-quality meals to help prevent and treat disease, and you can do it deliciously without a lot of fancy ingredients, unless you like them, and make it fun. And I think the easy fun of that and the simpleness of it, the simplicity of it, appeals to people. If you add avocado to a spinach salad, you absorb seven times the lutein, which is the eye-protecting antioxidant that's in spinach especially, than you did if you had a low-fat dressing or a no-fat dressing.

And avocado and full-fat dressings are going to taste better than low-fat or no-fat dressings. So that's an appeal. If you leave a watermelon on a kitchen counter, the color starts to go away, turns sort of orangey-pink. I mixed that up. I'm sorry. If you leave a watermelon in the refrigerator, the color starts to go away. It turns sort of orangey-pink. but if you leave it on the kitchen counter, it actually builds color and continues to metabolize. And that's accumulation of more lycopene and more beta carotene, whereas refrigerating it makes the lycopene and beta carotene go away. So just by how you store food changes its nutritional quality. If you chop garlic and you leave it for 10 minutes before

you add it to a dish, you increase its detoxification ability, which is not activated until the garlic itself is broken and needs 10 minutes for the glucosinolates to develop. If you add raw broccoli or raw any cruciferous vegetable, arugula, watercress, daikon, to a cooked cruciferous vegetable like the ones I just named, you activate the enzymes that were deactivated with cooking so that they can help your liver detoxify and so on. There's another fascinating fact that I want to throw in here that I learned in school. When you cook vegetables, like for example, really starchy vegetables, like for example, potatoes, when you heat them up and then you put them in the refrigerator, they build up more

resistant starch. Yes, they do. Right? And then you can continue to build up the resistant starch. So this is one of my favorite hacks is, let's say you make a big batch of potatoes for the week or you make a big batch of, let's say pasta does the same thing. You keep reheating and putting it back in the fridge every night as you make it. So heat up the whole thing, put it back in the fridge, like eat what you're going to eat and then put back the leftovers and continue to do that. And as the week goes on, the resistant starch is going to build up. That's such a cool thing. Yeah, it is really great. And resistant starch is metabolized not at four calories per gram like other starch, but at about 2.3. So its caloric intake for you is less as well. And that's the starch just going, the molecules just going like that so that it's easier,

a little more difficult to digest and goes through more easily. Cool. I love that. I love all those food facts that you dropped. If you have any more, I'm sure everyone listening is like, wow, this is cool. Yeah. We put about 100 of them in the Chef MD's Big Book of Culinary Medicine. They're in the margin. And let's see, if you bake a whole wheat crust pizza at 550 instead of at 400, you increase the anti-inflammatories that the whole wheat gives. So you have to heat it so higher temperature is better. It also happens to be better for flavor and texture. And texture is usually the missing ingredient in making a dish taste good.

I was lucky to train as a chef and teach cooking and work as one. And almost always when a dish needed something, it's one of three things that fixes it. One is adding something that crunches, anything that just modifies the texture a little bit. And things that are the same color often taste good together, which is why almost any herb in a salad will work, because they're all green. So you can put dill, and you can put chives and you can marjoram oregano rosemary maybe not all of them together but a few and they all work so things of the same color tastes good together we're coming into fall here so butternut squash with oranges and habanero chilies, all orange, all taste great together. The second thing is that a second easy

fix is acid. So anything, if it's slightly bland, needs a little bit of lemon or a little bit of lime or a little bit of vinegar or any other kind of vinegar you can think of, sherry vinegar, wine vinegar, red wine vinegar, it punches flavor a little bit. You have to be gentle, but it does help. And then the third thing, of course, is salt. The salt is controversial. Not everybody loves salt for its health reasons. I think a little bit of salt elevates flavor. If you're not using salt for whatever reason, then you increase green and dried herbs and acids to heighten flavor because that third component will be missing. And I would also, I'll keep this really short, but I would also challenge anyone listening that is trying to avoid salt. I did a podcast episode

with, I don't know if you know who Dr. James DeNick is. He goes by James DeNick. And I did a whole podcast episode with him because he wrote a book called The Salt Fix. And he's a doctor and he actually dove into the science of how we got this wrong. And that most people are actually not getting enough salt. Unless of course, if you're eating like fast food

or really hyper processed foods, if you're cooking the majority of your meals at home, most people are actually not getting enough salt. You just need a good, high-quality sea salt. I love Redmond real salt. I mean, I think it's very hard to argue with the flavor of salt. I think people do still debate whether it's really good for you. And I know some patients, for example, because that's my frame of reference with heart failure, for example, or kidney failure, that the sodium needs to be limited or else they're going to get messed up. is remarkably high in sodium, then you can appreciate small amounts of drizzled salt on the top of dishes added at the very end. Because what happens then, and I like to use kosher salt because the crystals are so big,

and what happens then is that you taste the salt on top of the dish and you get the big bang of it and you kind of need less. Yeah, that's very true. Just as prudence, just having enough of the right things and not overwhelming it so that the whole experience is heightened. I love so much what you're doing from an MD standpoint. And then like you said, you also trained as a chef and you're teaching people that not only can food taste really delicious, but it can also be really good for you. And hopefully, you know, keep us from developing all these horrible chronic diseases that we're dealing with in this country right now. And your work is so needed because I think that there's a, there's a massive misconception that's hopefully slowly starting to go away.

But I remember, especially in like the nineties and like the early two thousands, it was thought that if you were eating healthy, that you were eating like boiled chicken, crackers that taste like cardboard, low fat, everything. And that could not be further from the truth. And I tell people this all the time that I have two rules about my food. One, I want it to be nutritious. I want it to be healthy. I want it to be life-giving, but it also has to taste good. Like I'm not one of those people

that's gonna choke back some smoothie that tastes like absolute garbage just because it's good for me, because I've found that you can meet in the middle. You can make things that taste absolutely insanely delicious and they can be so good for you. I think that's absolutely correct. And I have had that experience many times with my patients and with viewers and readers. And I think that

one of the reasons that people are surprised that food that is good for you can taste great is that they often have not had truly fresh food when when people are pick something from a garden or buy it from a farmer who's picked it that morning it's radically different than buying something that's frozen in a bag in a supermarket even if it's like English peas, which are actually pretty good frozen, but even better when they're fresh. So I think freshness in food does make a lot of difference in flavor. And then using little culinary tricks like the ones that I've described can make food pop. And the studies that have been done, I gave talk to that uh a4m that aging folks in um experts in florida this year and i showed a slide that was done by the food marketing institute of why people buy food

and first is taste second is convenience third is cost. Fourth is health. And this is all comers, of course. And if you're trying to lower your cholesterol with what you eat, which is fairly easy to do, then health moves way up that line. Or if you're fighting an anti-inflammatory condition, you want to take a natural approach, then berries and more go way up that line. But as a whole, so we've got to appeal to people on taste. There's just no choice. Anybody who's interested in health has to be interested in taste and convenience. And we can do it because it's being done every day. When I started in this years ago, you're right. The food was, I like to think of it as sincere, but not truly flavorful often.

And now it really is. So we're lucky. We are. We're very lucky. And it's interesting because, you know, Gabe Brown actually talked about this too on the episode we did about regenerative farming. And that was the exact same point that he made. He said, I think a lot of people are not truly, they don't know what fresh food really tastes like. And, you know, I have to say that I was one of those people.

So I feel very fortunate and lucky that I live in Los Angeles. And there's a farmer's market like every day of the week here. And I know that's not possible for a lot of people, but as a result, I started going to the farmer's market and buying all my produce there. And I was blown away. I could not believe, I can hardly buy anything from the grocery store anymore because the vegetables just don't taste the same. They don't taste as flavorful. They don't taste as fresh. And we know this from a business standpoint as far as the traveling that a lot of these fruits and vegetables

have to go through in order to get to the grocery store. I mean, I've seen at Whole Foods, I've seen apples from New Zealand, tomatoes from Mexico. And you think about how long it takes for them to travel the vegetables all the way up here. And there's a system now where they pick them not as ripe, so then they ripen on the travel.

So we're both lucky because we both live in California. And I live on an organic farm, which I'm proud to steward. But what if you don't, you know? Yeah, I was going to ask you that. And what if you don't have farmer's markets year-long? I to ask you that. And what if you don't have farmers markets year long? I used to live in Chicago, which I'm going to visit shortly. And farmers markets roll up their doors. Oh, good.

In like late, middle October or early October. And they don't have farmers markets again until March. And so what to do, or the whole Northeast. So here's some ideas. One is that you could grow a little of your own because all it takes is a little bit of your own growing things to put you back in touch with nature, to give you better flavor

and to connect you with the idea that spring is coming. And we need that idea, that kind of anticipation of a renewal. And that can be a hydroponic garden. That can be, even though I believe the soil is the best thing for us and healthy soil, healthy people, if you're in winter and you're in Chicago and you want fresh chives or basil or thyme, I think you should get a hydroponic garden inside or seedlings from Trader Joe's or from wherever else and have them under a grow light, which is a lot of work, but it's deliberate and it provides you spices and herbs are the highest concentration of antioxidant and anti-inflammatory chemicals

gram for gram of any food that I know because it has to concentrate all of its goodness in really small leaves. And those leaves have to fight off predators. And when they do fight off predators and they'll have predators inside as well, little flies probably. Those leaves build up protective chemicals, which you get when you eat those leaves. So growing chives is easy. Growing basil is not much harder. Growing mint is very easy. Growing rosemary is possible. I've often given rosemary away. In fact, I have seed coasters that I give at lectures I give that have chives and sage and basil in them so that people can have plant them and have a pot inside four times when they can't reach a farmer's market not the same as buying picking a yellow bell pepper from your garden but something that

connects you with nature that gives you good, that tells you that your meals can be flavorful and helps you look forward to spring. Did you know that there are like 85 million gardeners in this country? Oh, really? That's a lot of people who think that they're gardeners. A lot. That's the most popular hobby by far. Wow, that's cool. I wish I had a garden.

Yeah, that's really cool. But this is a gateway drug. This is a gateway pot of gardening. All you got to do is have a self-watering planter if you want. Herbs are pretty hard to kill with overwatering. The plant behind you or the plant behind me, relatively easy to kill with overwatering. Those plants need about six ice cubes a week or at most, maybe six ice cubes every two weeks, depending on their size. But herbs can take a little more water and people really like to water their gardens inside because it gives them something to do. I think what we should do is cycle through our senses, is touch the leaf and smell it. If you just touch a leaf and smell it if you just touch a leaf and

smell it you're halfway there because you got tactile and you got fragrance and fragrance improves the neuronal capacity in your brain it uh some fragrance relaxes you that lavender stuff really does work um it's very important to be connected. So my suggestion for those people who can't access the farmers market or aren't growing their own is that you get a small inside garden, whether it's a windowsill herb planter or a pot or a hydroponic one that's small, because it can be life-changing. I've been consuming collagen for about six years now. I like to put it in my morning drink, whether that's coffee or matcha. I usually prefer coffee, but lately I've actually been doing coffee and then having a matcha a little bit later. I love to mix the collagen in with my nut milk that

I put in my coffee. It's usually almond milk or coconut milk. And I'm so excited to announce that Organifi has their own collagen now. As with all Organifi products, it's glyphosate residue free, really high quality. It has hydrolyzed bovine hide collagen peptides that are derived from pasture raised cows. It also has eggshell membrane collagen. It's taken from the thin layer between the egg and the shell. And this is collagen rich, and it may be beneficial for strong joint health. It also has hydrolyzed fish collagen peptides derived from wild caught fish. Because this collagen source is of a small particle size, it makes it easier to digest and more absorbable. And then there's also chicken bone broth protein concentrate in there. This collagen type is

actually found in your gut joints and cartilage and it helps support greater health both inside and out. Collagen is really good for lubricating the joints. It's also great for healing and sealing the gut. Often now because of our diets, people are dealing with leaky gut syndrome and collagen actually goes in there and helps to seal the gut. So if you're having any sort of leaky gut syndrome symptoms, collagen may be your best bet. It's also great for just replenishing collagen stores that diminish as we age and may help with wrinkles and keeping supple skin because collagen also is what keeps our skin elastic. So this is why I consume collagen. I love Organifi. I love all of their products. If you guys want to try any of the Organifi products for 20% off, you can use code

realfoodology or go to organifi.com slash realfoodology. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. That's really great advice. I actually had one of those in my old apartment in LA, an AeroGarden. And I think those are great. And I would say, I think for what you get, they're a decent price. I think I found one for like $150 online. So that's another great option too for people in places that can't access farmers markets. Yeah, and you can find them used at Craigslist or on eBay. Yes, yeah, That's a great

point. Facebook marketplace. Yeah. So, you know, you're obviously very clearly passionate about cooking and you have all these amazing tips for people. I find that cooking is one of those things that people are a lot or a lot of people are very nervous about it. Nervous to get started. They feel like they're going to mess up. What would be some of your tips about if someone's wanting to get started? Because we know more than ever with, we can't really control the ingredients when we eat out and the cooking oils and a lot of the stuff is not organic. So it's more important than ever to eat at home, but so many people are nervous to even, they don't even know where to start. So what would be some of your tips for getting started with cooking? I would say that my first tip is to remember that perfect is the enemy of good

and to not beat yourself up if you're not perfect because it's very difficult to live perfectly and it's actually not that much fun. Yes, I agree. So don't be too hard on yourself. The second is to try to do one thing at a time. So if what you're trying to do is learn to cook chicken, then make it easy on yourself. Don't start with chicken breasts, which are the hardest part of the chicken to cook because it's the leanest and the easiest to dry out and burn. Start with a whole chicken because A, you'll have it for the week. B, you can make all kinds of dishes with it. And C, really all you have to do is put it in the oven after you dry it and stuff it with anything. Oranges I like because I happen to have a lot of them. Rub it with a little olive oil and salt.

And if you want something more specific, there are great YouTube videos of great chefs making roast chicken. I think I even made one on my Chef MD Lifetime show that's on YouTube as well. So start with something that's simple that can give you a lot of meals. And don't be afraid that you're going to screw it up and then waste all that money that you just spend on a whole chicken. Because if you start simple, you've already cut out that likelihood. The third tip I would offer is the way I got started cooking is that I took a knife class

and I went to a cooking school in Chicago and at night for four nights and learned to use a knife, a chef's knife. Now that's kind of, it can be thought of as old school, where we buy everything already chopped up. Why do you need that? But if you're really interested in cooking, then being able to use a knife is just like being able to use a keyboard if you like to write. You can dictate everything, but you actually have more control if you choose your words carefully. So, and can edit. So I think having a knife is the simplest part. Knowing how to use a knife makes cooking simpler. Just holding it correctly, just not being afraid of the blade

and having the right size for your hand. All of those things really matter if you're doing something that can be uncomfortable for you. When I've taught cooking classes, I go around to everybody and hold their hand, literally, and watch them hold the knife and teach them that it's just rocking. Whether it's like dance or sex or whatever it is that's rhythmic for them. It's just rocking. And then everybody giggles a little bit, but it makes it easier.

And, you know, it's supposed to be fun. It's not supposed to be stressful and difficult. So those are quick tips. And you can learn so much from YouTube, but on the other hand, there's no real substitute for somebody holding your hand. Yeah, those are great tips. I would also add on to this and say, remember that movie, Julie and Julia, where the woman went through and she decided that every night she was going to cook through a different Julia Child recipe. I would say if someone has the time, why don't you do a little challenge for

yourself? Pick a cookbook that you really like, maybe one that's really health forward, but also good, healthy, delicious recipes and try to do one every day. Or if that's not possible with your job, maybe try to do one every weekend or something like that. And involve your kids. If you have kids, involve your partner. If you have a partner, a significant other, involve people in your household because it will get people excited about the food as well and will probably help hold you accountable too. And it sounds fun. Like you said, it doesn't have to be perfect. I've found too, the more I cook, obviously it's like a muscle that you have to strengthen. And it starts to become a little bit more intuitive because we're meant to cook, you know? And so you have it in you. It's just getting over that fear

and just starting to just do it. I think having, especially if you have a child, it's a powerful tool to model for a kid. Even if the kid is pushing a button on the microwave and or choosing the bell pepper at the store or from the pantry or the cut up vegetables that you already got from the salad bar all that's legitimate and fun and anything that a child can do kids can have knives not big ones but um knives and plastic knives or even um knives that they're not going to hurt themselves with to cut things up because they too want the feeling of being tactile. And the kids are often way more in touch with their senses than adults are. And if you remember the little sense exercise that I taught a moment earlier, they have all of that right at their fingertips. And they get the sensuality of cooking, the importance of play in cooking. And if you can try to see it through their eyes in

that way, it may make it easier for you. Anything you do to model is great. And it will set them up for healthy eating for life and they will not be scared to be in the kitchen. Because my mom did this with me when I was little. She very much involved me in cooking when I was little. And as a result, as an adult, I never had that fear. Like I was always just like cooking from a young age. And so my mom modeled that for me.

And it's a great way to model that for your children. And also Kelly Levesque, she's known as Be Well by Kelly on Instagram. She has three children and she talks about this all the time. She said her kids are way more likely to eat the food put on their plates if they were involved in the cooking, because they're very excited if they're involved. They want to taste the creations that they helped make. I'm glad that's Kelly's experience. That's also the research that shows that kids, yes, because it's been studied for many years that this type of modeling allows kids psychological buy-in so that they're more interested in their own work. If you're struggling to get your kids excited about

healthy foods, involve them in the cooking process and then they might change their minds. And kids have a natural ability and interest in playing outside. The study I mentioned about kids almost reversing their myopia in Asia and where in Singapore there are public health posters about kids and to their parents to have them go outside and play for two hours a day to avoid myopia. That's their public health effort. And as you know, Dan Buettner has determined that Singapore is now the sixth blue zone. That kind of kid involvement in nature is just second nature to them. And, but for us as adults, we tend to stay inside and, and cooking inside is great,

but engaging nature, even in fall and winter months is a smart thing to do. If you're not sure, we created NatureDeficitQuiz.com, which tells you if you have a nature deficit and then also gives you suggestions about what to do about it. And one thing that also comes here in fall for many people is seasonal affective disorder. That's affected so many people, it can make them feel so sad. So we created a quiz called sadquiz.com that tells you whether you have seasonal affective disorder or not, and gives you suggestions about how to preempt it, which are not necessarily pharmaceutical, but can be lifestyle oriented. They're both free. They're both easy and short

and fun to do because I think people learn more and have a better time when it's fun. So we'll definitely link those because I'm sure that people are going to be really interested in those tests. I was actually going to ask you, I get a ton of DMs about this because, and I don't know how to answer it because I live in California. We don't really have a lack of sunlight here, but a lot of people do in various places around the country when winter hits. And I get asked all the time, what do I think about these light boxes? And I want to know what you think about it, the research behind it. Do they actually work? They do. That's been FDA approved as light box treatments for well over a decade. But there is a trick to them.

It's not just put on the light like it's an overhead light. They have to be a certain number of lumens, which I think is 10,000. They have to be within 18 inches of your face for 20 minutes in the morning to reset your melatonin production and to allow your brain to wake up as if it were, in fact, dawn. And what most people don't understand about seasonal affective disorder is that it's actually a form of depression. It really is a depression. And the alternative treatment is antidepressants.

So you need not just lightbox exposure, but actually any outside exposure is probably better than the lightbox exposure itself because the multi-spectrums that you get when you're outside is more than you get with a lamp. But the lamp is much easier for most people. I recommend them. I've written prescriptions for them. They're now over-the-counter, and many of them are portable, and so you can take them wherever you need to take them. I highly recommend them, but follow the instructions because they can be super hot and we don't want anybody getting burned.

Okay. Yeah, that's fascinating. I've been wanting to ask someone about this because I didn't know how to advise people. So where can people find them? What's like a good brand that you recommend that you think really works? I actually go to the New York Times Wirecutter to see what they've evaluated. I think they do a very good job, and so does Consumer Reports.

I think they do a very good job as well in evaluating pros and cons. And so I'd recommend those two sources because this changes rapidly. And as people have learned about their effectiveness. Okay, that's great. I'm so glad that you brought that up. Before we go, is there anything that we haven't gone over that you think is really important for people to know? Just anything that we talked about today or something that didn't come up? I think the idea that nature is closer than you think is a radical one, but one that people ought to think about because it makes life more accessible. I think the idea of perfect being the enemy of good and not beating yourself up if you make a

mistake is also really important. I think the idea that we have more control than we think, that 80% of heart disease and 70% of cancer and about 70% of GI disease is all preventable or in some cases reversible with how you eat and how you live, including your nature engagement and connection, not just sleep and fitness and diet and stress management. These things, I think, form the core of the next step, which is better, not just longevity, but quality of life and enhanced well-being so that we can be more of who we really are. I love that. I think that's a great note to end on. Before we go, I want to ask you a personal question,

which is one that I just ask all my guests at the end. And I'm very curious to know what yours are. What are your health non-negotiables? So these are things that you do daily, weekly, in order to keep yourself healthy. I eat something from my garden pretty much every day. But as we've discussed, I'm lucky. I live on an organic farm that's certified and I grow things. And we can grow things year-round here, so I eat something

from my garden every day. I also try to plant something once a week, irrespective of what it is, because I think biodiversity is super important and also because I like having my hands in the soil. It teaches me about what the soil is doing and then how well the plant's going to do. And I thirdly think of wine like Robert Mondavi did as a beverage to be enjoyed with meals. I love that. I like to drink Dry Farms wine when I drink it. Have you heard of them? I have not.

I know what Dry Farming is though. You should check them out. Actually, they import all their wines from overseas. I think they're a lot from like Spain, France, Italy. They're keto, biodynamic, and organic. So they're really low sugar and they're dry farmed. They're lower in alcohol. So there's no like added stuff. And I sound like an ad. I just love them. That's great. The BATF allows over 70 additives of wine in the United States.

And I've made wine at home for decades and have a little vineyard. And I think the process of winemaking is creative and artistry as well as chemistry. And dry farming does tend to concentrate flavors and reduce production. There's some controversy about whether you really need small yields in order to get great flavor. But I'm glad that they're promoting the idea because especially in a hotter world, we're going to have less water in grape growing regions like Southern California, for example, and for that matter, Northern California. And the varieties that people are planting are increasingly drought tolerant. We're looking for grapes that will flourish at higher temperatures and need less water.

And that's a function of rootstock as well as farming techniques. That's fascinating. And that's a great point, too. Well, John, thank you so much for coming on. Please let people know where they can find your book, maybe any of the episodes that you film. Just really anything that you want to plug. Just let them know where they can find your book, maybe any of the episodes that you filmed, just really anything that you want to plug, just let them know where they can find you. My website is drjohnlopuma.com. I have an Instagram, there's a link that's magic.ly backslash drjohn and that has lots of connections and you can find everything from my website as well.

Amazing. Thank you so much. This was a really great episode. Super informative. Thanks so much, Courtney. Thank you for having me. So nice to be with you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much.

See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. There's nothing more comforting than a warming cup of hot chocolate before bed. I know coming from me, that may sound a little counterintuitive because you're probably thinking, how is hot chocolate healthy for you? But I've got a little hack for you and it's called Organifi's Gold Chocolate. First and foremost, the most important thing here, it has one gram of total sugar in it. So you get the satisfaction of having a comforting,

cozy little sweet treat after dinner without all the loaded sugar. And it's like with this one, you get a twofer, a two for one, because you also have the added bonus of things like turmeric, lemon balm, turkey tail. There's also magnesium and there's reishi in there. So whenever I drink this at night before bed, it gets me really sleepy and ready to wind down. And it really improved my sleep. There's also a blend in there that helps with digestion. There's acacia, cinnamon, ginger, black pepper, and turmeric. So if you have this after dinner, it's also gonna help with your digestion and it's gonna get you ready for bed.

My favorite thing about Organifi products outside of them being all organic, they're also glyphosate residue free. If you have listened to this podcast long enough or paid attention to my Instagram, you know that glyphosate is a huge, huge concern for all of us in this country. Glyphosate is a known carcinogen that is being sprayed. It's an herbicide. It's being sprayed on all of our crops that are not organic. And it's also being leaked into organic

products as well, organic foods. So this glyphosate residue free stamp is so incredibly important. And it's one of my favorite things about Organifi outside of their actual products, which I love. If you want to try this hot cocoa from Organifi or any of their other products that I mentioned today, make sure that you go to Organifi.com slash RealFoodology, and you are going to save 20% on your order. Again, that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash RealFoodology.