Realfoodology - OCD, Methylation & the Benefits of Nutrient Therapy - Samantha Gilbert

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

133: **REALFOODOLOGY PODCAST IS NOW ON YOUTUBE!** On this weeks episode, we talk about all things Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) with Samantha Gilbert.  Samantha is a Nutritional Therapy Counselor, Hope Communicator and Life Guide specializing in a functional, nutrient-based approach to healing the brain and body. She believes that no matter how complex your case or how much work you’ve put into your healing journey, that healing is always possible.  You may remember her from a few weeks ago when she came on to talk about Copper Overload.  If you have not listened yet, you can listen here. Topics Covered: What can cause OCD The relationship between zinc and copper What is true OCD? Signs and symptoms to look for if you think you have OCD.  What it means to be under methylated OCD and impulsive behavior  ADHD  Norepinephrine MTHFR gene  What to look for in your b complex or multi vitamins and what to avoid  Vegan diet and nutrient deficiency  How to test for OCD  Best way to go about treating OCD Trauma and abuse  Why naturopathic medicine is not covered under insurance  Pyrrole disorder  Over methylation Vs under methylation  Medication dependency  Medication deficiency  Check Out Samantha: Online Sponsored By: KION Save 20% on monthly deliveries and 10% on one-time purchases by going to getkion.com/realfoodology BiOptimizers: Magnesium Breakthrough www.magbreakthrough.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 10% off any order. Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off Check Out Courtney: **REALFOODOLOGY PODCAST IS NOW ON YOUTUBE!** Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening: Copper Overload & The Effects of the Paraguard on the Body with Samantha Gilbert

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. You know, these crazy psychopaths that want us to eat cricket flour pancakes and, you know, eat nothing but processed, ultra processed vegan foods, fake meat. I mean, come on, really? I think that most people need some form of nutrient therapy, maybe not to the level and the intense cases that I work with. But, you know, remember, we're not getting enough from our food these days. Hey everyone, I'm your host, Courtney Swan,

and you're listening to The Real Foodology Podcast. In today's episode, we are diving into all things OCD. I thought that this would be a really interesting episode to dive into because shockingly enough, sometimes OCD can be linked to nutrient deficiencies and or a methylation issue. So I brought Samantha Gilbert back on. You guys may recognize her from our episode that we did about copper overload and a copper IUD. If you have not listened to that yet, I highly recommend going back and listening to that. But I brought her back on today to talk

about all things OCD. We talked about the signs and symptoms. We also talked about what's going on when someone is dealing with OCD or OCD-like symptoms, how methylation and under-methylating contributes to this. We also talked about nutritional deficiencies, what lab work to ask your doctors about, how to improve OCD symptoms, and so much more. So with that, let's just get into the episode. Friends, if you are loving the podcast and if you would take a moment to rate and review it, it would mean so much to me. It really, really does help this podcast and it takes about two seconds of your time to leave a rating and review and it means so much. So I really appreciate your support with that. I hope that you guys love the episode as always. One of my goals this year is to get more protein in. There's been a lot of conversation around

longevity and the importance of having good lean muscle on your body, especially as we age, because our muscle deteriorates, especially if we are not actively working on making sure that we maintain that muscle mass. And maintaining muscle mass is more than just working out. Yes, you need to work out in order to maintain your muscle mass, but also protein is a key component here. And

making sure that you get enough protein every day is going to help make sure that you keep on that good, healthy, lean muscle. So this is how I am getting more protein in every single day. I am prioritizing good, healthy, clean animal protein sources. So like eggs, organic grass-fed pastures, meats, chicken, ground beef. and I'm also drinking amino acids and a protein shake every single day from the brand Kion. Kion's protein is made from whey isolate. It's also from grass-fed and pasture-raised cows, which is really important. There's nothing artificial in there. There's no artificial sweeteners. If you guys want to try Kion, go to getkion.com slash realfoodology. That's G-E-T-K-I-O-N.com slash realfoodology. And you

are going to save 20% on monthly deliveries and 10% on one-time purchases. I recently got some lab work done and I found out that I'm dealing with some gut issues right now. I have a little bit of dysbiosis, which is a imbalance of the good and bad bacteria in my gut. I also have low HCL, hydrochloric acid, which is what helps your body digest and break down your food and also assimilate the nutrients from your food so that you can get everything out of your food. Also, my magnesium is a little bit low.

So I'm gonna talk a little bit about a couple things that I'm gonna be taking to improve my overall health and to restore my gut. It is important to note that I will also be taking a root cause approach here and I'm going to be working with my doctor to figure out why exactly this is happening. But in the meantime, I'm going to address these directly with some supplements from Bioptimizers. First and foremost, I am taking Bioptimizers P3OM. This is their proteolytic

probiotics and it's going to help build back that good gut bacteria in my gut so that I can rebalance whatever's happening down there right now. I'm also taking their mass enzymes with every single meal. These are their digestive enzymes, which just help your, they just assist your body in digesting your food a little bit better, especially if you're having some sort of issues with digestion. Even if you're not having issues with digestion, digestive enzymes really do just help with overall digestion.

I'm also taking their HCL breakthrough, which is helping to build back my natural HCL because I mentioned earlier that I'm really low in it right now. So I'm taking that with every meal to hopefully build that back up. And then last but not least, I'm taking their magnesium breakthrough, which I've talked about a lot on here. It has seven forms of magnesium and there is no other product on the market that offers such a full spectrum coverage of all seven different forms of magnesium. As always with Bioptimizers products, they are vegan, gluten-free, they're soy-free, they're also free of any fillers or other junk that's not needed in there. It's just a really great clean product. If you guys want to try any of the products today that I mentioned from Bioptimizers, make sure that you go to bioptimizers.com and use code REALFOODOLOGY and you are going to save 10%. That's B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S.com. It's also important to

note that they have a digestive health stack. So you can get the proteolytic probiotics, the HCL breakthrough and their mass enzymes in a bundle. So you'll save a little bit of money if you want to buy all of them together. Make sure you use code realfoodology and you are going to save 10%. Samantha, I'm so excited to have you back on the podcast today to talk all about OCD. Woohoo, OCD. Yes, I'm very excited. Thank you for having me, Courtney. Yeah. Well well I loved the last episode that we did together and we had talked a little bit about this and I was like you know what I want to just do a whole episode on this because I feel like a lot of people a lot more people struggle

with this than we realize I think even on just like a small little level like obviously there's like full-blown OCD that people really struggle with but I think a lot of people have like little tendencies and I want to talk about really what the driving factors of that is. So what are some of the main reasons why someone might be struggling with OCD? Yeah, great question. There are several reasons. The main one that I see in my clinic is something called, you know, methylation imbalance under or over methylation, usually under methylation. That's a key driver. Also gut infections and microbial overgrowth and things like that, yeast, certain types of bacteria can also create a lot of OCD-like symptoms. And then heavy metals. We talked a lot about copper, the copper IUD last time, and how when dopamine is lowered and norepinephrine is increased, which is what

happens when there's too much copper in the body, we can call that a toxicity or an overload. I prefer to use overload. It's a little softer. I think it doesn't upset people as much. That can also create OCD-like symptoms. And then things like zinc deficiency, which I see often in my practice, and a condition called pyrol disorder, which is, I think we talked about this last time. It's a deficiency, a double deficiency rather of zinc and vitamin B6. And, you know, those are important nutrients for the brain to function optimally, for neurotransmitter activity to function optimally. And so OCD can be a cause of that as well. So lots of underlying causes. It just depends on the individual. And of course, testing is really important to figure

that out as well. Yeah. Wow. And that's so interesting that you said a deficiency of zinc, and then there's also that link of too much copper, and we know that copper and zinc work together synergistically in the body. So I'm sure there's a thing happening there as well, right? As copper goes up, the zinc goes down, and so then it's leading to a deficiency of zinc. Wow, that's really fascinating.

Well, one thing I'll say about that, Courtney, is, and I think we talked about this last time as well, and it was such an important conversation, is that copper may be high, but zinc might be normal. It doesn't necessarily mean that zinc is low. So I say this because a little bit of a disclaimer, I don't want your listeners to run out and start taking zinc because that can create

a detox response that is not so pleasant, shall I say. So there are a lot of variations. Copper can be normal. It can be actually low. Zinc can be low along with copper. We need to also look at a copper binding protein called ceruloplasmin. And that also plays a role in how copper is bound, whether it's bound or unbound, and how that impacts the body as well. So a lot going on there. But yes, there's a wide variety of variation, and all of those can create OCD-like symptoms. I want to say OCD-like symptoms because true OCD

is really from something called under-methylation, which I'm happy to get into that a little bit more as well. Yeah, I really want to talk about that. Before we go into that, I want to ask you what exactly is happening when someone's either experiencing OCD or OCD-like symptoms? What are maybe signs and symptoms to look for either if you're a parent of someone where you feel like the kids might be suffering from that or if you're feeling like you might be suffering from that yourself? Yeah, that's a really great question. Repetitive behaviors are kind of a hallmark of OCD. I'm going to use myself as an example because when I was really struggling and I did for most of my life struggle with OCD, depression, anxiety, I was suicidal at various times. But the repetition of and the obsession with body image was something that

I was very much focused on. So when we're talking about traditional OCD as a result of under-methylation, which we'll get into, there are usually one or two things that an individual will focus on. And those repetitive behaviors and obsessions with those behaviors are hallmarks of that. So I mentioned the body image. Of course, I was very obsessed with all the different types of foods I was eating. I was always on some kind of diet. But there are other categories or factors that fall under OCD that I think people are not aware of that I think would be helpful. So eating disorders are under the umbrella of OCD. In fact, under methylation and zinc deficiency are hallmarks of anorexia, something I see in my practice for or have for many years now. Addictions, you know, and that's because dopamine is lowered.

We'll get into that as well. You know, constant checking, arranging, counting, repeatedly cleaning items that have already been cleaned. I was a part of an outreach clinic with two of my mentors several years ago, and we had a patient that would come to the clinic and her entire sleeve would be soaking wet because she always had to be washing her hands several times a day, afraid that they were dirty even just a few seconds after washing. Intrusive thoughts are also another hallmark of OCD. In fact, I work and have worked with several young ladies that have struggled with the fear that they might harm their babies shortly after giving birth. And that can actually happen

for several years after. And they're always under-methylated. And there are a lot of things that we can do to correct that without medication. So that's another thing I want to encourage your listeners to know. High inner tension. So anxiety and OCD always go together. Sometimes that's difficult to discern. I hear often, well, I'm not even sure if I'm anxious. I just know that I'm thinking about this all the time. I'm ruminating. I'm in my brain a lot. I certainly was in my brain a lot when I was kind of at the height of my OCD and my challenges with, you know, again, depression and anxiety. But those always

go together. Depression is sometimes there, not always, but it's often a part of that process. Fear of contamination, you know, kind of going back to the cleanliness. Persistent sexual thoughts are also a hallmark of OCD or can be, not in everyone. But there's generally a lot of inner tension, but we come off, and I say we because I am under-methylated, we have a calm exterior. We're often very good at hiding things, projecting that we're okay, but inside, just very, very tense, very worried, very concerned about how we might come off. And again, the rumination tends to be very intense. So I hope that's helpful. I think that understanding what it feels like in someone's body, if you don't struggle with OCD, is really important, especially if you have a loved one or a friend that's struggling.

Yeah, no, that was really helpful. This is really fascinating. So you keep bringing up under-methylation. So let's talk about that. How does this impact OCD and just someone's overall mental health and what does it mean? Yeah, so I think the best way to answer that is kind of to talk about what methylation is. It's a chemical process that regulates every cell and tissue in the body except for red blood cells. It regulates many substances that are necessary

for the body to function. So those substances include hormones, neurotransmitters, and enzymes. Enzymes, we wouldn't be upright if we didn't have enzymes in the body to perform a variety of functions for us. So these things, these methyl groups that I mentioned that regulate the methylation cycle, they, you know, they're like on-off switches, so like a light switch.

And a methyl group is made up of one carbon atom bonded with three hydrogen atoms. And what's fascinating about methylation, and I'm still constantly fascinated and always learning, of course, is that they have the ability to drastically alter how we think, feel, and act. So thinking, behavior, and then that impulse, right, to act out. OCD is a lot about impulse. Okay, I have to have this, so I'm going to do whatever I can to get that. And then, you know, that ties into that internal feeling, right, that internal tension. I like to think of neurotransmitters as highway centers in the brain used to transmit messages between nerve cells. So we know what serotonin is. It's that happy

chemical. It gives us a sense of well-being. It's also connected to the bowel, of course. You know, the gut is often called the second brain because we make a lot of serotonin in our GI tract. But it also is connected to things like sleep, digestion, again, memory. It also plays a role in sexual function. I kind of touched on sexual thoughts and obsessions a moment ago. And then there's dopamine. And that's kind of our pleasure and our satisfaction as part of our brain's reward system. And this is why those of us that are under-methylated really struggle with addiction. Because again, we're not making those methyl groups needed to activate essentially dopamine, serotonin, and then I'll get into

norepinephrine. But I want to say a few things about dopamine. Also, it's critical for movement and the motor system. So think about Parkinson's disease, because we do see under-methylation in Parkinson's disease. And it's also a chemical for attention, learning, emotional expression, which is why ADHD is another hallmark of under-methylation. So you have that hyperactivity component, but you also have challenges with, again, paying attention, learning, short-term memory challenges are something that I often see in my practice. And just in general, ability to remember and to move forward, the ability to keep a list and to be able to stick with it. I have some tips and special things I do with my ADHD clients because they have a hard time remembering to take their nutrients.

So we have to set up systems to help them remember and to support them in that process. And then I want to talk about norepinephrine as well, because most people are not aware of what that is. It's also called noradrenaline, and that is a chemical that is released by the adrenal glands. It is also another regulator of attention and impulsivity. So there's that ADHD again, right? And again, also OCD. It's also part of the body's fight and flight response, and it has a direct impact on heart rate and blood pressure. And all of these things are hallmarks of OCD, right? There's a physiologic response that we feel when we start getting really anxious and we go, okay, okay, I got to go and do this. For me, it was, I'm going to go to the store and I'm going to get a bunch of food and I'm going to

go on a binge. But then afterward, I had this process of green juice for several days, sometimes weeks in a row, and then I would do this exercise thing. So I had a system and as I shared, it's usually one or two things that we focus on. Over-methylation is another creature. We can get it in that if you'd like, but most people are under-methylated that have a methylation imbalance. So we have a few over-methylators, but the majority are deficient in these methyl groups that I shared. Okay. This is absolutely fascinating because this is something that I have been working on in my own life. And hopefully this resonates for other people. But I recently found out that my, well, across the board, like my B vitamins were pretty

low. And also I have the MTHFR gene, which I knew. And I'm curious to know what that role plays in all of this as well, because we know that if you have the MTFHR gene and you're not taking a methylated B, your body's not actually going to be able to even take that B vitamin. It needs to be methylated before you take it. So I'm wondering, is there a connection there between that and OCD as well, if you're not taking a methylated B? Yeah. If you don't mind, I'd like to talk about this a little bit more because I think there's a lot of confusion about the MTHFR enzyme and its action and its process as a part of the methylation cycle as a whole. I'll just let people know that they can look at the doctor's data methylation profile test. You can go online, do a Google search, look at a sample, and

when you scroll down, you will see that there's actually a diagram of the methylation cycle. And I also have this on my website. But the thing to understand about MTHFR is that it's only maybe 30% expressive at best, which tells us that we've got 70%, you know, this other area. And that's concerning for me because it's only part of a backup pathway. It's not even part of the main pathway of methylation. So we really need to be careful about supplementing with any form of folic acid or folate or folinic acid, because guess what happens? We've got our DNA, which is inside the cell, the nucleus of the cell,

and then outside the cell, we have the cytoplasm. Well, yes, folate supplements, methylated folate, et cetera, they do donate some methyl outside the nucleus of the cell. But guess what? Inside the nucleus, they strip 10 times more than they donate. And that's problematic, right? Because that's where all of our instructions are made. And do we want to be taking supplements that are going to be stripping away

what we already don't make enough of? So I think there's a lot of confusion about methylated nutrients. Some of them are really important, like methyl B12. But when we're talking about folic acid supplements, again, folate, high folate foods. This is why vegan diets are contraindicated for those of us that are under-methylated. Over time, they are going to strip that, you know, again, that methyl, and that's not something that we want. So there's a duality is what I'm saying

to all these nutrients, whether you're taking them supplementally or you are, you know, again, taking a lot of or eating a lot of high folate foods as in a vegan diet. So I think that's important. I'm not saying that MTHFR doesn't have some validity in other areas, but when we're dealing with mental health and we know that someone is, again, under-methylated. We have to be very careful with folic acid and folate-based supplements. So I hope that makes sense kind of breaking it down that way. Yeah. So how would we know whether or not that's going to affect us

individually? Is this something that you just figure out? Testing is how we determine methylation status. But here's the thing about methylfolate specifically. What we see, and we've noticed this as a trend, you know, again, for many, many years now, what we see is that under methylators that take methylfolate as a supplemental therapy, generally after about three months, things start to bottom out. And that's that backup pathway that starts to get depleted. And again, MTHFR lives in that backup

pathway. And what's happening is, as I shared in the nucleus of the cell, over time, you might get that initial bump and feel better and think, oh, wow, this is amazing. But over time, that depletion of methyl is what's causing you to bottom out. We've seen several people respond, have horrific responses over time to methylfolate supplements. So that's where I think we just need to be mindful and be careful and, you know, always get proper testing. MTHFR has no way of telling us someone's methylation status. There's a tug of war between the SNPs, you know, the mutations. And, you know, we might

have 10 over here for under, we might have 12 over here. But we can't determine that with a genetic test. Those tests have not proven to be, you know, they're not sophisticated enough to tell us that information. So that's why we always want to look at other testing. You know, I mentioned the methylation profile test from doctors data. That's one that I use quite a bit to really see how someone is methylating, what's happening in each area of the methylation cycle. Okay, that's really interesting.

I'm now curious to, I want to check my supplement after this episode to see if mine has the has fulling. I think it does. Probably does. Most B complexes, I'll just say, I think there's maybe one that I can think of that doesn't, but it has other things in it that actually can deplete dopamine. But all of them are going to have, you know, whether it's folinic acid, folic acid, methylated folate, I mean, you know, the different forms, all B complexes have that in there. And that's why I never do multivitamins or, you know, complexes, because there's always going to be something in there that might be problematic, you know, down the line. Now,

I do want to say one thing. Now, if homocysteine is elevated in an under-methylated individual, that must be addressed first before you can dive into, you know, treating under-methylation and using what we call methyl donors, certain nutrients that are methyl donors to help bring more methyl into the system. But that has to be treated first. And guess what the best way to treat that is? It's going to be folate, folinic acid. I like folinic acid. It's a little bit more metabolically active. But whatever form you use, you have to treat that first, bring that down, and then you can start addressing the methylation. So I'm kind of giving you a lot of information here. But I want people to know that there are instances where we need to utilize a small amount of B9, whatever form is appropriate for the patient well as, you know, just straight folinic acid, B12, vitamin B6.

These are all important as well, but you're going to be spending a long, long time trying to lower homocysteine by just taking B12 alone. Okay, yeah, all of this is really fascinating. I mean, I mentioned earlier that I started taking a methylated B complex and I've noticed a huge shift in a lot of different areas of my life. I have more energy, which is to be expected, but I feel like my mood has been elevated. And then I have this thing with the stove that a lot of my friends relate to that I would consider to be like OCD-like symptoms because I have a dog. And one of my biggest fears

is that I'm going to leave the oven on accidentally. So when I leave, I have this like, I check the stove like a little bit too much. But since I started taking this methylated B complex, that fear and that kind of like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like repetitive thought in my brain has really, really calmed down a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And it will because there are a lot of wonderful B vitamins that are important that are low. And those of us that are under methylated, I mentioned vitamin B12

is critical. Vitamin B6. That's something that I utilize in my practice quite a bit. And that is going to be in what you're taking. So there are some wonderful nutrients. I don't want to knock B-complexes. They really are amazing and they really are important. You know, again, my concern is over time, if you're taking a high dose of specifically methylfolate or again, any form of folic acid or folate, over time, that's going to deplete the methyl in your system. So then what would be the other solution? Because this is providing a pretty big solution for me.

So then what would I do in place of taking that B complex? Yeah. Yeah. Excellent question. So the way I work in my practice, I'm working more with individual nutrients. So we want to make sure we get the appropriate Bs in, and I mentioned those, and leaving the ones that are contraindicated out. So I'm just utilizing, working more with single nutrients and making sure that they're in the appropriate doses for the individual's chemistry. And, you know, there's so many other factors. I mentioned gut health. And as you know, I know you've talked about gut health a lot and you do talk about it a lot, the importance of looking at malabsorption and, you know, nutrient deficiency and sufficiency in relation to that is really, really key.

Some people can't handle vitamin B6, and that's probably because they're very high in yeast and or bacteria. And so that's what's triggering that reaction from vitamin B6. Your diet's amazing, but the way to address that and answer to your question is really to look at single nutrients in the appropriate doses. I want to take a second to talk about some of my favorite Organifi products and why I love them. When I first started getting into health, I was an avid juicer. I was buying fresh veggies every couple of days and wearing out my juicer and also wearing out myself by trying to constantly juice vegetable juices because I wanted to flood my body with all of the nutrients,

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So you have mentioned nutrient deficiencies, and then you also briefly talked about the vegan diet. And I'm really curious about this from a nutrient deficiency standpoint, because we know that it's just a fact. I'm not trying to diminish people that want to eat a vegan diet or offend them, but it's just a fact that it is very, very, very hard to get all of your nutrients through a vegan diet. And if someone is dealing with an under-methylation issue and nutrition deficiencies, maybe they have OCD, it's got to be harder to follow a vegan diet, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you know, it's interesting. And I was vegan for many years. Okay. So I was too. Yeah. And I remember we talked about that last time. And I was the sickest I've ever been in my life. Yes. Like sickest I've ever been. Yeah. My hair, I think I mentioned my

ponytail was like the size of a dime. My face was all broken out. My gut was a train wreck. Yeah. Yeah. Bloating all the time. I was starving 24-7. It was not the vibe. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Likewise. You and I had a very similar experience. And I think a lot of that is chemistry. But I agree that, and again, because I was vegan and I did enjoy it at first, I do wanna respect people that choose that lifestyle. It's not a judgment against the lifestyle, but I would agree that we cannot get certain nutrients from plant foods. We just can't.

Meat is really critical. And also, there's the whole, the way our bodies absorb the nutrients from meat versus getting protein from, you know, legumes or something like that. It's a very different process that the body goes through. And also higher protein diets are going to have, guess what, those methyl donors that I mentioned. And so I know for me that not eating enough animal protein and having it completely out of my diet for so long was a big part of just the fact that I was under-methylated and I didn't know it at the time. I was also, of course, eating a lot of very high

folate foods, things like spinach. Beets are also very high in folate. So I'm not saying these foods are bad, but for those of us that are in this category, which we get our methylation status in utero, it's something that we will have for life. These diets specifically, I'm not saying if you have this once in a while, you're gonna suddenly have an attack of OCD and anxiety. That's not what I'm saying at all.

It's really balanced. But when all of your eating and living on are very high folate foods, and also for me, I had a copper imbalance, you know, as I shared, and I was eating a lot of very high copper foods because plant-based foods are very high in copper as well so i had this kind of double whammy of of um you know these overloads and and i just i i could not understand because i really bought into um you know the propaganda at the time that this was the healthiest diet, you know, in the world. So there must be something wrong with me. I carried a lot of guilt and shame around that. But to your point, when I started adding in more, you know, animal based foods, high quality animal based foods,

my health really turned around. It was really phenomenal. So I hope that helps. We want to make sure that the diet and the nutrient therapy, which is basically therapeutic doses of nutrients to change chemistry, we want to make sure the diet and the nutrients are both appropriate for the individual. And that's how we create real change at that level of DNA. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's where you really see the impact. I guess it really depends on the individual what foods would really help in their instance. So how would someone go about even figuring out what maybe supplements will work, what foods will help improve their OCD symptoms? How would someone go about figuring that out? Yeah. Yeah. All

excellent questions. So I like to look at chemistry, and when I say chemistry, I'm looking at methylation, zinc deficiency, copper, pyrrole disorder, which is a urine test, all of those things. In addition to if there is a gut challenge, you know, I'm going to be looking at that as well. So I encourage, rather than trying to shoot in the dark, I would encourage your listeners to please seek out a practitioner that understands how all of these relationships work together and how to formulate treatment plans and how to work in phases. You can't throw everything at someone at once. Methylation is complicated, and we have to just be very careful and go slow. And a lot of that is just understanding and listening to your patient and meeting them where they're at.

So I guess I want to obviously give your listeners things that they can do, steps that they can at. So I guess, you know, I want to obviously give your listeners things that they can do, steps that they can take. It's hard for me to give specific guidance on supplements because I don't know someone's chemistry. And I'm always a little hesitant to do that because, you know, I wouldn't want someone to have a negative reaction and think, oh, this is terrible. Not necessarily the supplement. It's just it's not appropriate for your body. Or again, maybe you have a gut infection. I talked about the relationship between vitamin B6 and how that can trigger, you know, bacteria and yeast. You know, unfortunately it may not be an answer that people want to hear, but it requires some work on our part to find the doctor that will do

the testing. And if it's something that you're really struggling with, people listening, I just encourage you to seek out someone that can help you do all the right testing that you need to do. And so that's why with a lot of these episodes, I try to just give people all the information and what kind of doctor they should be looking for, what kind of questions they should be asking for, what kind of lab work they should be asking for. Because it's really hard. The more I get into nutrition, I realize that it is virtually impossible to give a blanket statement of like, okay, you need to eat X, Y, and Z and take X, Y, and Z supplements in order to be healthy. Because we are also bio-individual and there's so many different factors involved.

There's genetics involved. There's your own personal history, your health history, where your hormones at, are you on synthetic birth control? There's so many different factors involved that it really needs to be more put on the individual level. And I think as nutrition experts, we need to be encouraging people to really seek out that data for themselves so then they can really make the most informed decisions for their body and their health. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. And if I may add on to that, trauma and abuse are also major driving factors in chemistry, believe it or not. Things like, you know, again, copper and zinc and the stress that trauma and abuse puts on an individual and how that changes, you know,

epigenetic changes, obviously. And I just, it's so critical that you work with someone that can really see you. And we know this is what functional medicine means. I'm not going to bore your audience with that. But, you know, someone that has a caring spirit and really knows how to listen. You know, I lost my hearing after my first MMR shot when I was, you know, young. And I think as much as that, you know,

was really traumatizing for me throughout life, especially in school with these, you know, big clunky hearing aids. I'm so glad that that happened because it made me a good listener. It made me an empathetic individual to what people are going through. So I don't know why I brought that up. I just suddenly thought of it. And I think it's just so critical to seek out someone that really can see the whole picture and guide you appropriately because everyone's dosing is going to be different. There are several different forms of zinc, several different forms of magnesium. We all know this. Which one is best for you? Well,

that depends on your medical history and your lab work. And we need to find good doctors that are willing to do the tests and know exactly what to look for and how to help you. I've had like five different doctors this year just because, and all of them have been amazing and have helped me in different ways. But it's because they bring different things to the table and I've been addressing different things that I really needed help with that I could only find this expertise in certain doctors. And it's just unfortunate that, I don't know, that healthcare is so complicated right now. It is. And I know that cash pay is hard for people. The reason that we don't take insurance, most of us that are in this space, is because we can't provide quality care if we're limited by mandates. And I think you know that. I'm sure many of your listeners are aware of that. But I spend a lot of time with people. I do the

appropriate testing. And as I shared, I work in phases. And if there's a gut infection, you better believe I want to focus on that first. And then if I know someone is under methylated or any of the other chemistries that I mentioned, of course, I want to be slowly introducing those nutrients and making sure that it's, you know, again, very appropriate for that individual. But yeah, I'm sorry you've had that experience. I, before I finally figured out, you know, what was going on with me and my chemistry, I spent about $100,000 on my health with different practitioners. Some helped a little bit. Some, you know, really sent me into the depths of despair. I don't fault them for that. They were doing the best that they could. But, you know,

it can be really frustrating. But there are good people out there that know how to, you know, make all these connections and bring them together in an appropriate way. And again, dosing appropriately, going slow, you know, titrating appropriately, all of that is key to helping someone feel better. Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything that we haven't gone over that you think is really important? I would say the thing about methylation, and that's why I kind of wanted to go into the MTHFR thing, is that I realize there's a lot of information on the internet. I realized it's kind of a rabbit hole. It's so confusing. One practitioner says this, the other says the exact opposite.

It's just so overwhelming. But I do want to encourage people to kind of listen to their inner voice where that's concerned. And, you know, again, along the lines of seeking out an appropriate practitioner. I think, you know, if there's, how do I word this? If it's a very, if the guidance is very one-sided, to me, that's a red flag. Because as you said, as human beings, we're very complicated. We're very, you know, bio-individuality is a real thing. And there are so many factors that make up who we are as human beings.

And there are a lot of different areas to look at and go down. And, you know, again, with OCD, there are different underlying causes of OCD. But I would just be very mindful of, you know, again, one size fits all or only one method of testing or only one area or avenue in which to go in because you need that well, you know, that well-rounded support. So I think that's what I would add there. Yeah. Well, and I thought of one more question, and I'm still a little bit unclear about this. I want to clarify it. Is there, so we know that there's the MTFHR test, which tells you whether or not your body is able to methylate. But is there a test to tell you if you are under-methylating? Yeah. There is. Okay. No, I mean, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There are a couple of tests that we use. The one that I

had referenced is the methylation profile, and that's by Doctors Data. And that's the one where if you, because I don't have anything on the screen to kind of, you know, go over the methylation cycle with your audience, if they want to just go and get a sample report, they'll see a graphic of the cycle there and they can see where the MTHFR enzyme is in the backup pathway. It's not in the main pathway there. So I like that one a lot because we're looking at methionine, which is a major methyl donor. We're looking at conversions, we're looking at different pathways and where those levels are. So that one is a little bit more expensive, but for many people it can be very beneficial. But also whole blood histamine is another test that I utilize just to determine methylation status, not to be confused with mass cell issues or histamine

intolerance. Now, those things can be in the same individual that is under-methylated, but I want to make sure that your audience knows that they are actually two very different creatures and we need to treat them differently, even though there are going to be connections there. So a high histamine value, again, it has to be whole blood, not plasma. A high histamine value is going to be indicative of under-methylation, and then a low histamine value will be indicative of over-methylation. And over-methylation, I didn't touch on this just very quickly, is too many methyl groups. So as I shared, in under-methylation, there are too few methyl groups to support enzymes, hormones, and neurotransmitters. And in over-methylators, there are too many methyl groups.

So that's where folic acid and folate are wonderful because they provide calming, they bring down those higher levels and an individual can feel really wonderful. Those are two good tests to utilize. Of course, if you are doing the whole blood histamine and you're on antihistamines, you're gonna have to stop those for about three weeks

before you test because there are certain medications that can skew those results. And again, this is, I'm sharing with you, this is why working with someone is appropriate because I wouldn't want you to go and get that test and go, oh, this seems normal when it probably isn't. Or maybe there's just a medication or something in the environment, whatever the case may be that is skewing that result. So I hope that that is helpful. Yeah, this has been really helpful. So I encourage anyone that has any further questions around this to reach out to you, hopefully, if that's okay. Yeah. To maybe even like seek you as someone they can work with. Yeah. I appreciate that, Courtney. I try to be very active on my blog and then, you know,

of course my own podcast and just trying to help people understand more of, you know, what's actually happening, what's the chemical process that's happening in the body? And I do have a lot of free, free, free articles, truly free articles, no paywall on my site. And of course, with my show, just explaining these things in more detail. I talk a lot about methylation, write a lot about methylation, copper, again, pyrrole disorder, which we didn't really go into that one, but that also has a big component with OCD. What is it? What disorder? Pyrrole, P-Y-R-R-O-L-E. That's the one where it has the deficiency of zinc and vitamin B6. And those are those critical nutrients that help create

neurotransmitters in the first place. You know, zinc is really important for mental health and, you know, B6 as well. So, you know, looking at everything in totality, again, just very, very critical. So in many cases, is it safe to say that in, maybe I shouldn't say many, but in some cases that someone dealing with OCD-like symptoms is really just dealing with a nutrition deficiency? Yeah, the way we like to word it is nutrient deficiencies and overloads. So I mentioned, we talked about copper a lot last time. So copper overload and, you know, copper is very much, you know, we think of the Energizer Bunny or the copper top battery.

You know, it's a producer of energy and we are energetic beings. So when copper is high, there is this feeling like I'm, you know, wired all the time. And that can create a lot of OCD. And, you know, and again, because copper lowers dopamine, and that's a big trigger there too. So yeah, so that would be an example of an overload. And then because we need copper, again, you know, disclaimer, copper isn't bad. I don't like this black and white thinking with copper and zinc. Copper is not bad. We need it. It's important.

You know, we need it to make babies. When women are pregnant, copper naturally goes up because it's needed to create blood vessels. So obviously you need that when you're creating, you know, a baby in your belly. But what happens is it gets overloaded. It becomes toxic to the body.

And we just need to go through that balancing act. And deficiencies in methylation specifically. I mentioned B6 is often severely depleted and under methylators. Vitamin B12, even calcium can cause severe depression. And, you know, calcium gets a bad rap. But guess what? If you're deficient in calcium, oh, my goodness, it can be a lifesaver. I worked with children with seizure disorders where we incorporated, you know, again, very slowly, but calcium and zinc and other important nutrients based on their chemistry. And they're doing so much better now. It's really amazing that something like a seizure disorder can be remedied with

nutrients, right? And looking at the gut microbiome, because yeast and bacteria also play a role in these disorders. So yeah, nutrient deficiency is very, very common, whether you have normal methylation or not. But as you know, Courtney, you're so good at speaking into this, our soils are so depleted. So therefore, even our organic foods are not where they were even 10 years ago. We've got these crazy psychopaths that want us to eat cricket flour pancakes and, you know, eat nothing but processed, ultra processed vegan foods. Yeah, thank you. Fake meat.

I mean, come on, really? I think that most people need some form of nutrient therapy, maybe not to the level and the intense cases that I work with. But, you know, remember, we're not getting enough from our food these days. I wish that were the case. When I first started in this industry 15, 16 years ago, I said that initially. I'm like, let's get your diet on board, the animal protein. Let's make sure that things are well-rounded, organic. I can't really say that anymore, sadly. It's so funny because I used to say the exact same thing when I was in school getting my master's. I remember thinking this and also telling everyone, I was like, you don't really need supplements.

Maybe take a probiotic to build up your gut bacteria and an omega-3 or a fish oil or something like that. But I was like, you should just be getting all of your nutrients from your whole real foods, organic foods. And I've completely changed my tune now as well because after learning about the soil degradation and how we're just completely depleting our soil of nutrients and the soil is where our plants get the nutrients. So if we're destroying that with pesticides and tilling

and all the destructive behaviors that we're doing to our soil, it's absolutely having an effect on our food and it's just a sad reality. So it is important that we first get the testing done to really see where all these deficiencies are, because you don't want to just be shooting in the dark. I just got this test done. I did the NutriVal test and wow, was that insightful. It told me about a lot of deficiencies that I've been dealing with. And as I've started supplementing to fill in the gaps for that, I mean, I feel calmer.

I'm less stressed out. I feel like I can think better. My little like OCD like tendencies that I was feeling like I was struggling with have really like for the most part kind of gone out the window. I mean, I've just been seeing such a significant shift in so many things. My sleep is starting to get better finally. So it really is something that we, first of all, you need to

figure out through testing what exactly you're dealing with and then find someone that can help you find the right supplements and food, et cetera, to address that. You know, yes, absolutely, Courtney. And I'm so glad you said that because there's still this thinking and I, et cetera, to address that? You know, yes, absolutely, Courtney. And I'm so glad you said that because there's still this thinking and I, you know, just as popped into my brain as you were, you know, sharing your story with us, there's still this thinking from the conventional model. And, you know, I love doctors.

We've got amazing, good doctors in the world. But I hear all the time still patients being told, if you don't stay on this medication, you're never going to get well. And supplements don't really do anything. Which shocks me that we're now in 2023. And there's still this thinking. So you are a testament to that. I'm a testament to that. I would say if you're not getting anywhere with your multivitamin, you're not noticing a lot, you know, again, nutrient therapy is therapeutic doses of nutrients, which you're not going to get in a complex or a multi. You're going to get adequate doses there. Some are better than others, of course. But if you're listening to this show and or watching this show and you don't feel like

you're noticing much, I think that's a good indicator of getting properly tested. And the doses that you're taking are probably just too minute to create any change. And I think that's another important factor that also goes back to, you know, what's happening in our environment and, you know, the depletion of our soils and so forth. And, you know, I'm glad you touched on all the chemicals because, you know, that's also been ramping up over the last few years. And I think that if I just may be bold and say, I think that we're all and have been poisoned for decades. You know, you and I know this. I don't say that to scare anybody, but that's why diet is so key. You know, you had this wonderful question at the end of our last time together and you asked me, you know, what are my basically non-negotiables, I think.

And I said diet. I was honest about diet because it is so key and so fundamental to living the best life that we can and be happy and thriving in a world that, you know, let's be honest, is not always easy. And with so many additional obstacles and new layers and so forth, you know, especially over the past couple of years. So diet is one way that you can, one thing that you can control because there's so many things that we can't. But one thing that you can control that is such an amazing healing force. So please don't let a doctor tell you that if you don't say on Lexapro that you're never going to get well. That's a lie.

You know, that's a lie. Because I know that nutrients are powerful and I've just seen it happen so many times. So anyway, thank you for indulging me here for a few minutes. No, it was amazing. And I think that's a great place to end. I do want to quickly make a note that I think is interesting regarding pharmaceutical drugs is that many of these drugs, their side effects are that they create nutritional deficiencies.

Especially, I mean, birth control pill is notorious for this. Creating nutritional deficiencies in the body. And we know that classic scenario where someone gets put on a drug and then they have to be put on another drug to counteract the symptoms of the first one. And then you're just in this mess of being on, you know, five different drugs and it all started with one. And then you're just trying to counteract

all the side effects. And then you think about all the nutritional deficiencies that are happening. And, you know, I say this often and I want to repeat myself again. I am not at all saying that we shouldn't ever have medication and that there's never a time and place for it. That is not what I'm saying. But I am saying is that we're over-prescribing and oftentimes we have doctors that have been trained just to look at the symptoms and then they have a pill to match the symptoms instead of looking at the real picture of, okay, well, why is your body presenting these symptoms in the first place? And I'm not saying that you shouldn't ever be using medication, but often there are solutions outside of using medication. And if you have a doctor that's not asking you about your diet, your lifestyle,

how your sleep is, all of that, then I would find a different doctor because you want someone on your team who is going to really look at the whole picture and not just immediately throw drugs at you. There currently and never have been any safety studies with psychotropic medications. I just want your listeners to know that. I did a whole show around that. I was put on Prozac. I was one of the first children to be put on Prozac when it first came out in 1987. I want people to know, and I think, you know, again, your listeners are going to know how corrupt big pharma is. But I think these medications over time, yes, they create a lot of deficiencies and they end up, there's like a boomerang effect where they end up creating more dysregulation in the brain than what was there initially. And it could have been anything. It could have been

more blood sugar. It could have been actually under methylation or low zinc or whatever. But we find in the data and the independent research has shown that people generally over time don't do well on these medications and become dependent on them. And also the data are clear that, you know, if you just let it kind of, well, I, of course, would want to seek help from someone if it's chronic. But most people, if we're talking about depression, eventually that depression with other changes in their lives, whether it's lifestyle or what have you, that tends to wane naturally. The data are clear on that. So I, you know So it speaks again to the overuse and prescribing these medications.

Yeah, and there's a lot of money to be made off them too, unfortunately. So there's a lot of other things happening. So, well, thank you so much for coming on. Since we already went over your health non-negotiables, we won't do that again. But please tell everyone where they can find you. Yes, you can find me at eatfor.life, not.com. So that's E-A-T-F-O-R dot L-I-F-E.

I'm no longer on social media. I just, it didn't feel good to be on social media anymore. So please come join me on my website and feel free to interact on my blog there. And my podcast is also on there as well. So thank you, Courtney. Awesome. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational

and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. Looking to build a more robust foundation in your health and wellbeing? From the producer of the Real Foodology podcast comes one of the most popular alternative health shows

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