Realfoodology - Oral and Gut Microbiome Connection with Dr. Staci

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

101: Staci Whitman is a Functional Pediatric Dentist and we talk all about the oral/gut microbiome connection, it’s connection to overall health and what really causes cavities! Check Out Staci:https://www.instagram.com/doctor_staci/https://doctorstaci.com/ Sponsored By: Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% OFF Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening Ask the Dentist  Achieving True Health and Vitality with Dr. Tyler Jean

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. You know, the gut microbiome has been like front and center for the past decade. Well, now little kid sister oral microbiome is coming in and people are understanding, wow, I can't have a healthy gut without a healthy mouth, and I can't have a healthy mouth without a healthy gut. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast, where we dive into all things health and wellness. If you're new here, welcome. My

name is Courtney Swan. I have my master's of science in nutrition and integrative health. I'm the creator of Real Foodology, which started out as a website slash food blog 11 years ago when I was getting my master's. And it has since morphed into my Instagram, which is an educational-based Instagram. And then now this podcast. Today's episode was really fun for me to record. Stacey Whitman is amazing. I feel like we became very fast friends. We got connected through a mutual friend who also was a guest on this podcast, Dr. Tyler Jean. He's also known as Functional Foods on Instagram. If you guys have not heard that episode yet, by the way, definitely go check it out. He is such a wealth of knowledge, and I just adore Tyler.

Stacey is a functional pediatric dentist. We talk about what that means exactly, what is a functional dentist, how you can find one. We also dive into what actually really causes cavities, and I think you're going to be surprised by what she has to say. She talks about her favorite toothpaste, another thing that will probably be new to you. And we talk all about the oral and gut microbiome connection, as well as its connection to overall health. I find this topic so fascinating because there is still so much of this that I'm learning.

And it's such a reminder of, you know, that saying, the more you learn, the less you know. I love it. I consider myself forever a student and I love doing these podcast episodes because I am right there next to you learning alongside you. And it's fascinating. It's so fun that I get to interview all these amazing people and learn from them. Anyways, let's get to the episode. I really hope you guys enjoy it. Oh, as always, if you are loving and enjoying the podcast, if you could leave a rating and a review, it would help me out so much. I am so grateful for your support. I hope that you love the episode. Something that I've really been working on in my own health lately is my sleep. This is something that I struggled with for a really long time.

I was not consistent with my bedtimes. One night I would go to bed at 11 p.m. Another night I would go to bed at 2 a.m. And I just got to a point where it really wasn't serving me. And obviously I was exhausted during the day. It was affecting my work and my productivity. So the ways that I've been helping to support my sleep and get better sleep are plugging in my phone an hour before I even start getting ready for bed. That way I'm not on the screen.

I can allow my body to start relaxing. And then I also take Zen from Cured, which is an amazing supplement that helps support my body and helps me get relaxed and ready for bed. It contains a blend of reishi mushroom, ashwagandha, chamomile, passionflower, and broad spectrum CBD. There's no melatonin in here. I know a lot of people want to avoid melatonin because it makes them groggy in the morning. It has things like, I said, reishi and magnesium and CBD and ashwagandha, passionflower. These all kind of help calm the mind and reduce anxiety to get ready for sleep. The thing that really drew me to Cured is that they take their CBD very seriously. You can go online and look at all the lab reports. They

test all their products. They show exactly how much CBD is in there. So you know you're getting a really good high quality product. And they also use organic ingredients, which if you know me at all, and even listening to the podcast, you know that organic is really important to me and it should be important to us all. Also, if you really want to up the ante, get their raw CBN. This is their nighttime hemp oil. And I take that in combination with the Zen and it has really been helping me sleep. If you guys want to try cured today, go to curednutrition.com. That's C-U-R-E-D nutrition.com. And you're going to get 20% off when you use code realfoodology. Stacey, you are a functional dentist and I first found you, it might've been through Tyler functional foods. I don't know exactly how I found your account, but I love

your Instagram account so much. It is so informative, especially for people listening that have kids, definitely check her out. So before we dive into all things oral health, what exactly is a functional dentist? What does that mean? And can you tell everyone a little bit about what exactly you do? Yes. Thank you for having me on, by the way, Courtney. I'm also a big fan of yours. Thank you. Functional dentistry. So I am a pediatric dentist now too. I used to practice as a general dentist and then went back to get my pediatric certification. But essentially, functional dentistry is really looking more at the root causes of oral disease and manifestations, looking for root cause approaches and looking upstream, as opposed to conventional dentistry, which very typically is kind of end stage disease. It's a more surgical approach because we're using hand pieces and burrs. It's that whole drill, fill, bill model. And we're

learning more and more now about the importance of the oral microbiome and the oral systemic connection and kind of putting all these pieces together. And similarly to functional medicine, it's very important that everything we promote and all of our clinical recommendations are extremely evidence-based too. But I like to think of functional dentistry as physicians of the mouth. So we love to have metrics. You know, dentistry commonly commonly you're not really running labs you're not really looking at genetic polymorphisms or anything medical like that but we need to be and we're starting to realize we really need to be looking at dentistry differently and looking at the whole body and taking a holistic approach and that is how we're going to achieve ultimate

health for our patients. Instead of just saying you have a cavity, let's drill it, walk out the door, or you have gum disease, floss more. We realize there's so much more to that. And there's so much more to the oral systemic connection. Yeah, actually, you know, it's fascinating. So I recently just moved. I've been in LA for a long time. I just moved from the east side to the west side. So I'm still in LA, but it's far enough away from my old neighborhood that I'm kind of having to find all my new people, you know, new dentist. And I actually, I found a holistic dentist

that's really close to me. And I ended up not going with her only because I was like, man, I already have another doctor that I do all this with. But their first appointment, they do all these tests on you. They do a vitamin D test. I'm trying to remember everything else, but I thought that was so amazing. I was like, wow.

I was like, I love that they do this. Like they go into everything. Cause you know, the basically on the phone, the assistant was like, we just want to know exactly where your health is. We want to know X, Y, and Z, what your vitamin D levels are, what, you know, all of this stuff is that's unheard of. I was blown away. I was like, oh my God, I love that you guys are doing this. Yeah, we do that. And so that we're doing that too. So that is so cool. Hats off to that provider. Yes, I think it should be standard of care that every patient has a vitamin D panel run, or at least sent from your doctor. so we understand your baseline oral health because vitamin D is critical. But also vitamin K2 is really important as well. And there are ways to test for that. Trace minerals, magnesium is hugely important. We know we're all insanely magnesium depleted

because our soil is so stripped and we really need to be supplementing. That is also very important for oral and dental health. And now there's microbiome testing. There's oral DNA testing. There's bristle take-home tests. It's testing the genomics of your oral microbiome. And this is huge stuff, and I really think it's going to blow up major in the next few years.

Yeah, it's cool. That is so cool. Okay, well, explain for all the listeners why vitamin D and K2 are so important for our teeth. Yeah, well, it's cool. That is so cool. Okay, well, explain for all the listeners why vitamin D and K2 are so important for our teeth. Yeah, well, it's just like with bone development too. So our teeth form the same way that our bones do. And so vitamin D is a precursor to that. You know, we know it's a hormone.

It's so important in so many systems in the body, but it's very important for bone and dental development. But we also need K2 to help direct calcium and kind of tell calcium and vitamin D what to do. And then along with that is magnesium. So there's sort of this pairing, except it's four. You need calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, and K2 for optimal dental development. And that includes when you're pregnant. So it's very easy for moms to become depleted during pregnancy, but it's so critical to make sure that they're getting enough of these fat soluble vitamins for proper, not only tooth development, but jaw and facial development too, because that helps airway health later on for the children. And we can get to that, but that that's a huge

part of functional dentistry as well as sleep and airway and how we're breathing. So that that's a huge part of functional dentistry as well is sleep and airway and how we're breathing. So that's part of it. And, of course, like we test other things, too, like the microbiome is important for gum health and remineralization and immune health, too. And so it really can go downstream quite a bit, all starting from the mouth. So interesting. I have more recently become really fascinated with the oral microbiome because I've been in nutrition. I've been in this health and wellness space for 15 years now. And it was not until this last year that I started to really make the connection with the oral microbiome and our gut health and just our overall health. And then I know, like, I hate to admit that it makes me feel like dumb. I'm like, how did I not

make that connection before? But I feel like a lot of people aren't really having this conversation and it wasn't really put on my radar until recently, but it makes so much sense when you think about it because, and you know, I know I'm, I'm speaking to you and you're like, duh, but for the listeners with your saliva, um, your saliva goes into your gut and that is like your body's first, um, that, I mean that all the bacteria in your mouth is then populating in your gut. And you can speak to this way more than I can, because like I said, I'm still like, I'm over here, like a little student of yours. Um, please. Okay. First of all, it's please please don't say you're dumb, because you're not. So medicine went one way and dentistry went another. And it's ridiculous. We need to get the mouth back into the body. And so this is part of why I am so excited about my platform and, and so honored that you invite me onto your podcast so that I can just spread this word. We need to understand the mouth is part of the body and everything that happens in the mouth has a direct impact on the

body. And if your gums, for example, are inflamed, if you brush and floss and your gums bleed, that's a sign of inflammation. What is all disease based upon? Inflammation, right? And so it's not that the inflammation just stays in your mouth. That is transcribed and translated through the entire body. But you are right. The oral microbiome in the mouth influences the gut microbiome. We call them kissing cousins.

And there is a lot more research needed in this arena. And again, it is up and coming because the gut microbiome has been front and center for the past decade. Well, now little kid sister, oral microbiome is coming in and people are understanding, wow, I can't have a healthy gut without a healthy mouth and I can't have a healthy mouth without a healthy gut. And so that's what's so cool about working with functional medicine doctors and naturopaths

is many patients come in with gut dysbiosis, intestinal permeability, irritable bowel syndrome, all these issues, and they will do everything they can to try to figure out and get them healthy. And sometimes they're just not getting to where they need to be. And it's because they're not looking into the mouth. And they might have rampant periodontal disease, or they might have failing root canals, or they might have mouth breathing and halitosis and oral dysbiosis. And so it's just really cool to take a more integrative collaborative approach. And I'm excited now that there are metrics like these oral microbiome tests that can really help show patients you have a lot of beneficial bacteria,

or you have a lot of commensal bacteria, or oh, geez, you have a lot of beneficial bacteria or you have a lot of commensal bacteria or, oh, geez, you have a lot of these pathogenic bacteria in your mouth. And some of them are pretty nasty, and they actually do need to be treated sometimes with antibiotics. They have a lot of downstream effects, including, you know, we say inflammation, but it can cause something called leaky gums. I mean, that's what gingivitis is. It's now an opening for the bacteria in your mouth to enter your body and your bloodstream so that when your gums bleed, that is a gateway for bacteria to enter into your body. And that has a huge immune response. And so the downstream effects are huge. And we know chronic inflammation can lead to autoimmune diseases

and some big scary stuff too. You know, they're linking oral dysbiosis to Alzheimer's and dementia and rheumatoid arthritis and pregnancy outcome complications and issues, cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes. I mean, it just keeps going on and on as we learn more and more and even cancer. I mean, it's big, big stuff. And so again, I'm very thankful that you're allowing me the platform to share this, but your mouth is very important. Yeah. I mean, you just made a great point there that I had never really thought about before. So medicine went two different ways. And how funny is it that to the point where people have separate insurance for their mouth and for the rest of their body, which is really wild when you think about it, actually, especially

when you just listed off all these conditions that can be traced now back to the mouth. And then another thing that you brought up was the leaky gums, which I've never heard before. I'm fascinated by that. Hopefully by now, a lot of my listeners are aware of what leaky gut is, leaky gut syndrome, and it's similar things. I can imagine that if it's going into your bloodstream through your mouth and it can also have that autoimmune response, like you said, that, wow, connecting all the dots here. That's really amazing. Super fascinating. So, okay. So now that we know all this, what are some of like the top nutrients? I know you just posted about this on your Instagram, and I want my listeners to hear about this. Top nutrients for healthy gums and teeth,

whether it be foods, supplements, all the above. Sure. So we just mentioned vitamin D3, K2, and magnesium. Sort of straight across the board. I just like everyone on those. Now, of course, knowing your levels is important because otherwise you don't know how much to be supplementing. But you need to look at what range you're at, what is ideal, work with your doctor. The vitamin D council, they do recommend a range between 40 and 80 nanograms per milliliter which is not what conventional medicine is saying and of course we want optimal ranges so i like it up at the higher end for my patients yeah um so d3k2 magnesium i mean trace minerals in general of course prebiotic fiber like your gut, we need to be feeding the beneficial

bacteria in our mouths too. So all those delicious vegetables, fermented foods, for our gum health, collagen is very important. Vitamin C is very important. You know, scurvy is what occurs when we don't have enough vitamin C. Coenzyme Q, CoQ10, sorry. There's a few, but fat soluble vitamins in particular. And we are very blessed to have the work of Weston Price. He was a dentist in the early 1900s. Yeah, he did amazing work. I mean, he was way ahead of his time. And his research was, there's some flaws in it. It wasn't perfect, but man, he was on it. And he was looking at these ancestral tribes and humans and noticing how beautiful their dentition was

and how wide their jaws were. And they didn't need braces and they didn't have cavities. And what was the deal? And it was the exposure to all these fat-soluble vitamins, animal protein, saturated fats, you know, not the sad diet, not trans fats, and all of these things, just getting back to kind of ancestral eating. And he was right, he's spot on. And when we see, you know, cavities are the number one chronic disease globally. It is completely preventable. I mean, pretty close to completely, even with a genetic predisposition, just like epigenetics, you really have a lot of

control through your diet and how you're breathing and your hygiene. So, you know, I think people feel they're destined to just oral health issues, but such is not the case. And that is why I went into pediatrics was because I said, oh my gosh, I need to get as upstream as possible so that I can put these fires out, you know, when they're smoldering and not full-blown fires and course correct and get these kids healthy so that they can thrive and become healthy adults. Yeah. I mean, that's the beautiful thing about functional medicine is that now doctors are trying to get ahead of these diseases and either prevent them or like stop them in their tracks

before they go too far, which is, I love that you said that. I mean, why do end stage treatment, a cavity that is beyond repair is end stage, you know, and that's a whole other topic we can speak of. But part of functional or holistic biological dentistry is being conservative and trying to allow the body to innately heal. And when you catch cavities early, particularly when they're still in the enamel, just like bone remineralizes, your teeth can too. It takes commitment and it takes using the right diet and breathing ideally, and certainly avoiding certain products and using certain products. But we do see healing of teeth, which is really cool. And a lot of patients don't realize that.

That's so cool. I want to go into that in a second. You brought up something else about Weston Price that I wanted to mention. So I saw recently on someone's Instagram, I can't remember who it was now. I actually think they were talking about the work of Weston Price. And what I thought was so interesting was they were showing photos of tribes of people that were just, you know, eating, you know, native foods from the land. Their teeth were immaculate. They were straight. They had amazing jaws. And then they showed tribes that were adopting Western diet. And they were losing their teeth. Like a lot of them didn't even have any teeth anymore or like had lost a bunch of them. I mean, you could just tell that their mouths were like ravaged by this diet. And I was blown away by this. I've heard this a couple

times now that if we ate like our ancestors did, we wouldn't even need to brush our teeth, which blows my mind. No, it's totally correct. So our ancestors were not brushing their teeth. They might have been chewing on sticks and they were eating really fibrous, crunchy foods, which sort of acted as toothbrushes. But we didn't really have dental decay 10 or 12,000 years ago. We know this through ancestral specimens and that cavities really developed around the time of the agricultural and industrialized revolutions when we started you know mass producing grains and processing

flowers and adding sugar to everything and the reason is to just keep it simple fermentable carbohydrates or simple sugars that break down very quickly in the mouth and essentially turn to acid are what feed our pathogenic bacteria. That is what they eat and thrive on and love. And our healthy microbiome loves prebiotic fiber. So it's really that simple. And you think of ancestral humans, where were they exposed to fermentable carbohydrates? I mean, only during berry season, essentially, you know, and that was a short-lived season and they had to compete with birds and other foraging animals. I mean, they weren't able to just walk into a grocery store and pick their sugar of choice in, you know, whatever form that was available to them, which is what we have now. As you know, sugar is in everything.

Yeah, it's bananas. It's bananas, I know. So this is the thing. I mean, I'm not saying I advocate for any certain type of diet. I do choose to eat a certain way. Of course, we all have our diet. We're all bio-individual too. But if you choose to eat a more paleo-centered diet, it's going to be really hard for you to get cavities. It really will be. And how you're breathing impacts that as well. And of course, the quality of your enamel. So there is such thing as under-mineralized enamel. And that can occur if it's in baby teeth, that occurs when you're pregnant. You know, what a mama eats really is impacting how her child's teeth develop. And then, of course, with first food introductions, that is when their adult teeth are forming.

And so making sure your children are exposed to nutrient dense foods in a wide range of eat the rainbow foods is what I say. And really try not to expose them to a lot of these ultra processed package bagged foods, which is marketed to busy, exhausted parents, and has fun cartoon characters and primary colors and all of these things geared to kids. And it's hard, it's tough, I get it. But you know, how you expose your children to food in those first few years is so formative for their palate throughout life and their microbiome too. So you're really establishing their microbiome because you are feeding the good bacteria, not only for your mouth, but your gut. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just touched on so

many amazing points there. First and foremost, like you said, you are forming your child's palate within the first couple years of life. They've done studies that the foods that you reach for the most in times of emotional distress, like comfort foods, right, are most likely the foods that your parents fed you a lot as a kid, because we equate that as love from our parents. So for example, one of my favorite comfort foods still to this day is pesto pasta with tortellini because my mom would make it all the time. Oh God, it's so good. Homemade pesto. And that is one of my comfort foods now because in my mind, subconsciously, I equate that as my mom showing love for me, like making this food.

So like there is a huge emotional component there. And then like you said, of course, it's like repopulating the gut and it's basically what's building our gut microbiome. There's another thing. So with children, a lot of the snacks that they give them, like you talked about, are these like grains. I mean, for example, like Cheerios, or I always think of, I don't even know what to call them, but these little like crunchy, like puffs. Yes. The rice puffs and the rice crackers, but my, my nemesis and people who follow me know this are goldfish crackers. Yes. Okay. So this is what I was going to ask you. What are the top contributors to cavities that people wouldn't expect? Like everyone knows sugar candy, like especially the sticky candies, goldfish being one of them. What are some other ones for parents?

Yeah. So I say goldfish because so many kids eat them, you know, and we think that we're making a healthier choice for our kids. And this is not to shame or judge because this is marketing. And also we could get into the bliss point and all of that, but I'll digress. So goldfish crackers, pretzels, chips, granola bars, fruit snacks, fruit leathers, yeah, sugary cereals. I mean, all of these things that are grab and go snacks are not great for our teeth because again, they're fermentable carbohydrates and they're sticky. And so it's that stickiness. They stick in the grooves, they stick between the teeth and it's just a field day for the pathogenic bacteria.

And I get asked a lot, well, what if we brush after? Well, that's great. I mean, it still is releasing acid, but in theory, yeah, you could brush and floss. How realistic is that? And also you shouldn't brush right after you eat. And that's because when we eat, it's part of the digestive process, right? Our saliva comes in, it starts to break our food down. The pH drops. That is normal as part of the digestive process. So your enamel is a little under mineralized due to this acid attack. And so you really want to wait at least 20 to 30 minutes to allow the pH of your saliva to buffer and rise back up again into a safe place. And what will

happen is your enamel will naturally remineralize. And then that's an okay time to brush. The real thing is flossing. And so many parents are not flossing their kids teeth. And I get it, it's hard enough to brush. But most cavities that we see are in between, it's from lack of flossing. So you know, on paper, yeah, brushing flossing may be good. I do say if you're going to have to eat something like that, I suggest rinsing with water after and then offering like an apple or a carrot or a piece of celery, something crunchy, like what our ancestors were eating and using for toothbrushes, or maybe like a piece of cheese if you can do dairy, because again, that's going to help

neutralize the mouth and it can be very beneficial for oral health. But it's just it's not all or none. It's 80-20 principle, but it is just being mindful. And I personally would advise not bringing a lot of those foods into your home because your kids, as they get older and into school, they will be exposed to them and they're going to eat them, you know. And so you want to try to keep the food as clean as you can at the house, knowing that they'll be exposed to some of these things outside of the home. Yeah, that's great advice. I mean, I say that even for myself. I just don't buy things that I know that I'm going to be too tempted to eat,

you know, like super sugary stuff. I just don't keep it in the house. Yeah, and it's not lack of willpower. Again, it's food science. It's the bliss point. I mean, I open a bag of Doritos, they're gone. Like a super-sized bag. I have no self-control because that's the science in there. It's the perfect blend of fat and sugar and salt in your brain,

just dopamine hit. You can't help it. So I really make sure I'm not around Doritos because I will be vulnerable. I know Doritos get the best of it. You know, they even get me to a Super Bowl party. I know. I'm like, so good. God, I'm like, who brought these? Throw them away. No. And Siete, hats off to you. You've done a wonderful job, but it's still not quite the same. I mean, but of course it's not because it's clean. Well, I was just going to say, you know why? Because they have food scientists that do this on purpose to create that bliss point, to make them super addictive. And it's why, poof, the bag is gone and you didn't even really like know how you got there. And you don't feel full or satiated.

And then you're grumpy and, you know, blood sugar. I mean, we could go on major tangents here, but anyway, back to teeth. Yeah, back to teeth. But that's also what they're doing to goldfish. And I think this is such an important part of the message, especially for people that have kids, because I had never thought about that.

The grain-rich carbohydrate snacks that get stuck in your teeth it makes so much sense that that would be a problem it's yeah it's the fermentable carbohydrates yep because our pathogenic bacteria love them and so the way i teach kids is like we want to feed our good guys and not our bad guys because i do like children to understand that not all bacteria are bad that's really important like our microbiome is hugely important it. It's why we are human. But we want to be feeding more of the beneficial bacteria. Yeah, that's really, really good advice. You know, one of my missions with Real Foodology has always been to make eating healthier, more convenient and cost effective. I know eating healthy and getting the right

nutrients in can be annoying. It can also be time-consuming and expensive. Organic veggies are pretty expensive sometimes and not always convenient to shop for. So one of the ways that I'm able to support my health is by drinking Organifi every day. I personally like to do their organic green juice and the organic red juice together. I combine them. It's so simple. There's no longer having to shop for vegetables and clean out a juicer every day. You just put a scoop of each in water and mix them together. I love the taste together. They're organic. They're also glyphosate residue free, so you're not getting the carcinogenic herbicide in there. And it's just super convenient. It also, the reds really

make them taste better when you put them together. Also, if you subscribe and save, you can get them as low as $1.98 per day per tub. So make sure you go to Organifi.com slash Real Foodology and use code Real Foodology and you're going to save 20%. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. So what causes cavities? Like outside of these foods, what are things that people need to be more aware of in order to keep from getting cavities? Because I've heard you talk about this a couple of times. Like I know your whole thing is functional dentistry, getting to the root cause of things. What is causing cavities? Yeah. So essentially it is, you need a substrate, you need bacteria, you need a surface. And so you have the tooth and you have, you know, the food substance and you have bacteria. So it's acid, it is pathogenic bacteria, and it is a weak tooth. And so essentially, your bacteria will form a biofilm on your teeth, which is kind of

interesting. Like we hear biofilms, well, it's the only place we can actually see a biofilm in our body. And it's not only bad, there's good bacteria in that biofilm too. And they help with the remineralization, demineralization process and help with the immune response in the mouth as well. But what happens is when there's pathogenic bacteria stuck on the tooth, creating this biofilm plaque layer, and they're eating and metabolizing and utilizing fermentable carbohydrates, their byproduct is acid. And so what does that acid do? It leaches minerals out of your teeth. And so when that pathogenic bacteria sits there day after day after day, feeding on this delicious fermentable carbohydrate substrate

and releasing all this acid, at some point the scale tips and you lose too many minerals that you can't remineralize it. Now there's a hole in the tooth, essentially. And that is in theory, a cavity. But other things that will change the oral microbiome and the pH is how you're breathing. So mouth breathers have a lower pH, we tend to have more pathogenic bacteria. So it's so frustrating that these for these parents that come in, and they're doing everything correctly, and they're brushing and they're flossing and they're using a quality toothpaste, which I'll get into later of what I recommend. And their kid's diet's pretty clean and the kids still get cavities.

A lot of times, the first thing I'll think of is, are they a mouth breather? And a lot of times they are. And particularly at night, it's really important to watch your kids sleep. I mean, most parents, they put their kids to bed, they shut the door, and they like just run. They run away. Pour the wine. Exactly. Totally.

You need to occasionally pop your head in and just watch them. Because you might think they're fine, but they might really be mouth breathing snoring grinding darth vader breathing twisting around in their bed sheets and that's a sign of sleep disorder breathing um which is a hugely important for growth and development and behavior brain development things of that nature too and i have a lot of my platform about this um so yeah i mean and of course hygiene so what is what is brushing and flossing well that is disrupting the biofilm. You don't want that biofilm to stick there for too long. So you're just mechanically removing it. And that's really what you're doing with brushing and flossing. You're just removing the biofilm, but sadly it's going to come back again. And it really starts reorganizing and

coming back, you know, not long, up to 30 to 40 minutes after you have brushed and flossed, depending what you're eating too. You know, if you're eating a lot of preventable carbohydrates, it's going to reassemble and adhere a lot faster. It's so interesting that not only now do we need to eat healthy for, to be healthy in our bodies, but now I'm going to start thinking about like, wow, my health, the now I'm going to start thinking about like, wow, my health, the healthier I'm eating, the better it is for my teeth too. Something I would have never, ever thought about until this last year. It's simpatico. What's good for the body is good for the mouth. I mean, it's real, just to keep it simple, because this can get really

overwhelming, but if it's good for your gut, it's good for your mouth. If it's good for your mouth, it's good for your body. I mean, it's really all interconnected and it's all a lot of the same principles just to keep it simple. So, yeah. So if someone listening thinks either they have an issue with mouth breathing or they think their kids do, what can they do to help their kids or themselves? Yeah, good question. So the first thing I would do is really try to find an airway focused dentist or a dentist who's had additional training in airway screening and sleep health. It is not taught in dental school. I went down this rabbit hole because of issues I noticed with my own daughter. And so I would look for someone that has trained at the Breathe Institute,

which is actually in LA. Dr. Shrushaghi is an ear, nose, and throat doctor there who's changing the world. Or the AAMPD is another affiliation I'd look for. But basically, look for someone who's airway trained. And very often, it's hard to unpack, which is why we want to intervene early if we can, which is why I like to see babies. But you might need to work with an ear, nose and throat doctor or a myofunctional therapist, which is like a physical therapist for the mouth and can help get us back to nasal breathing. You know, they'll screen you for tongue tie. You sometimes need to see an orthodontist because it could be a jaw relationship issue. And it can be a lot to unpack for people, but it's never too late. I myself just had my tonsils out

and my tongue tie released. And I had sinus surgery three weeks ago and I'm a new sparkly human because of it. So, well, I actually have a girlfriend who's in her thirties that just found out that she has a tongue tie. And I was like, what? You can go this long into life without knowing you have it. And so she's going to go see someone to have that fixed. Awesome. Yeah. It can lead to issues. I mean, it can, you can get, um, it can affect how you're breathing, how you're swallowing your speech. You know, you can start headaches or or jaw aches and neck aches because it's fascia and so it's a fascial tension point um so it's pretty cool i noticed a huge difference since having my done it's amazing wow that's fascinating yeah oh i love all of this i'm

like i'm i don't know i'm just i'm fascinated about all this this is really incredible um so you have been talking a lot about mineralizing teeth. Can we talk more about that and how people like, I know the answer to this, but I want people to know what's a good toothpaste to use for mineralizing your teeth? What helps mineralize your teeth? So traditionally and still currently, most dentists really advocate for fluoride, which is a remineralizer. And no one's arguing that it doesn't remineralize enamel. But there are some concerns, especially with systemic fluoride. That means water fluoridation or prescriptions with long-term effects with brain health in children. There's a lot of studies about this very excellent, high, high-caliber studies

showing a correlation between increased systemic fluoride with IQ issues in children and even ADHD and also thyroid issues and osteosarcomas, and it's quite a lot. And there's actually a lawsuit happening right now in San Francisco. It's the people versus the EPA. It's a federal lawsuit. It should be on the front page of New York Times, in my opinion, but it isn't. And it's not looking good for Flora.ide now the judge hasn't made his decision yet he's supposed to this summer but essentially there's never been a randomized control trial or safety uh trial for water fluoridation and so the judge has asked the apa to come up with something he gave them i think 10 months and so we're in that 10 months and know, this water fluoridation happened in the 40s. So it was based on like a clinical, clinical observation.

That whole correlation is not causation. Well, they just did it because they noticed that people in this community that had a really high fluoride level in their spring water had less cavities. They'd really mottled teeth but less cavities. So anyway, I personally am not an advocate for systemic fluoride because of this, because I can't look a parent in the eye and choose their child's brain health over fewer cavities when I know cavities are preventable and cavities are not from lack of fluoride we are not fluoride deficient we don't need fluoride uh ancestral humans did not have fluoride so that being said that's the systemic thing you guys can go to the fluoride action Network and dig around I encourage you to read the research uh be an advocate for yourself. And also, honestly, the CDC came out years ago, like 2009,

and said fluoride works post-erruptively, not pre-erruptively. That means after teeth have come in or topically, not systemically. So why are we still ingesting it? Why are we still writing prescriptions? The other thing is you cannot dose it appropriately based on body weight. So an infant who's getting formula made with fluoridated water is getting a higher dose of fluoride than a 210 pound man. And so it's mass medication essentially. And there's an ethical issue with it because we don't have patient consent. So anyway, there's that. Sorry to interrupt you, but there's an ethical issue with it because we don't have patient consent. So anyway, there's that. Sorry to interrupt you, but there's also, I might mess this up, but I know the way in which they're sourcing the fluoride that they're putting in our water.

It's concerning. So there's calcium fluoride and there's sodium fluoride. And those are more natural sources of fluoride. That's what you'll see in toothpaste. So the fluoride that's in our water is from, it's a byproduct of the fertilizer industry. And this seems made up, but it's not. This is real. You can look it up, guys. You can look it up. It's hydrofluorosilic acid, and it is considered a toxic byproduct. And the fertilizer industry, if they want to dispose of it they have to do so in a

very specific manner based on the epa's guidelines and it's extremely expensive for them to dispose of this so what do they do they put in um scrubbers in these stacks and it it collects the fluoride byproduct going out these stacks and and they uh basically for all intents and purposes send it off to municipalities to put in the water and and we are paying the fertilizer industry to add this to our water um so it's kind it's it's it's concerning that's just concerning um just knowing the source right yeah And knowing that we can't dispose of it because it will pollute our environment, but yet we're drinking it. We're putting it in our water. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah. And you might drink a glass of water a day and I drink three gallons and I cook with it and I boil my pasta with it. I make soup with it and I'm giving it to my baby who weighs, you know, 15 pounds and is drinking seven bottles of formula a day. And so they are seeing association with lowered IQ. And it's five to I think seven or nine. It's a lot IQ points. And that is on par with lead. Wow. It's a huge deal. And then there's some indication that fluoride, you know, it's a negatively charged ion. And so it's actually contributing to pulling lead out of lead pipes. So as the fluoride passes through these old lead pipes, it's actually facilitating the leaching of more lead out of the pipes.

And so increasing lead exposure, it's a lot. And so we'll see his name's judge chen put out good energy um because again i just think we've become complacent i think we're just thinking the public just thinks oh let's use fluoride i'm good it's not the case like if you eat pretty clean and have decent hygiene and and control that you control how you're breathing, which is going to have downstream better health effects for your whole system, you will be fine. And, you know, I don't use fluoride. My kids don't use fluoride. They've never had fluoride. So then move to topical fluoride. Again, I have concerns. You know, our oral mucosa does absorb a lot of things.

Like this is how we take medicines. Think of all these liposomal supplements that we're taking and nitroglycerin. And especially if you have leaky gums, you know, now there's this entry point for this fluoride to enter you. And what cumulative effect does that have in the body? And again, brain health or one less cavity. Like I can fix a tooth. I can't fix a child's brain. So I do leave that up to parents. I prefer hydroxyapatite, which is a mineral,

which is already found in our enamel. 97% of our enamel is composed of hydroxyapatite. 60% of our bones are made of hydroxyapatite. It is safe to swallow. It is safe to use on babies. And it is very effective. And there is lots of data now to show that it is as effective as fluoride, if not more effective. There's been some studies to show it's actually outperforming at the right concentration. And so I'm a big hydroxyapatite fan. I see the benefits in my practice with patients using hydroxyapatite fan I see the benefits in my practice with patients using hydroxyapatite it's quite amazing honestly it can help with sensitivity it can help whiten teeth and again I can feel very comfortable knowing my patients are using a remineralizer

which is important but also it is safe for kids that amazing. So what are some of your favorite toothpastes that have hydroxyapatite in them? Yeah. So right now I mostly recommend Risewell or Boca. There's a lot other on the market, a lot of others on the market. You know, there does need to be a certain percentage of hydroxyapatite in the toothpaste. And I don't think all companies are delivering on that because hydroxyapatite is quite expensive to source. But I do like Ryswell and Boca. I, you know, there's some ingredients in there I think could be improved upon. There's room for improvement in the market.

But that's what I use personally right now. I use Boca and I'm actually really liking it a lot. Yeah. I wish that some of the ingredients were better. But I think out of all of them, that's been my favorite one I've found. Yeah, I agree. That's what I use. My kids use Rye as well because they have a kid's flavor and I use Boca. I love that. So we talked about this before we started filming and I would love to know your opinion on, so we know it's really important what mothers eat for their babies when in utero. How do you feel about vegan diets when it comes to the formation of teeth and the brain?

And do you think that it's having an effect? And I like talking about this a lot right now because I feel like vegan and vegetarian diets are being really pushed on us right now as being a healthier option. I'm very careful to say that anyone listening that feels better on a vegetarian vegan diet, and that's really what they believe in, no shame. But I do find that a lot of people are just moving over because they have been told that this is way healthier to eat. And so I like to have these conversations and say, you know, I personally don't necessarily believe that it's always healthier. And so I want to know what your opinion is and what you're seeing. Yes. So I also want to support people. Again, we're bio-individual

and we need to do what feels best for us. And, you know, it's not only sometimes how we feel physically, but there's ethical reasons for that, of course, and religious reasons. So I want to be respectful of that. That being said, I do think if you are choosing to become pregnant and you are choosing to have a vegan or vegetarian diet, that you really, really need to be mindful about making sure that you're getting all the proper nutrients that we know are essential for brain development, but also dental and skeletal development. And some of the big ones are, of course, the fat-soluble vitamins, making sure they're

bioavailable and bioactive forms, and B12 and micronutrients that we can get in meat that are really hard to get in plant form. And so this is anecdotal, of course, but I have been a dentist for 15 years now. And I do see a lot of dental anomalies and under mineralized enamel in hypoplastic enamel is what it's called in children whose moms were vegan or vegetarian when they were pregnant and who also are being raised vegan or vegetarian. It's so much so that, you know, my entire staff comments on it now. Wow. So, you know, it'd be cool to do a study probably. And again, this is observational data only, but very often we just see that the teeth are mottled and chalky and basically sometimes

can crumble and it makes them at a very higher cavity risk. And it's essentially under mineralization. And so, you know, the reason would be maternal depletion, that they just weren't getting the nutrients and especially the minerals that are essential for tooth formation. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, it's just a lot harder to get all those nutrients in a vegan and vegetarian diet. I had a doula midwife on my podcast a couple months ago, and she said a similar thing, not about the teeth, but she said she and a couple of other women that she worked with, they were noticing that every woman that was vegan and vegetarian, their placentas looked

like those of smokers. And she was like, blown away by this. She said, you know, I don't say this to shame anyone, but she was like, I think it's really important for women to hear this because especially right now when it's really being pushed on us. Yeah, I was blown away by that. I was like, whew, okay. I mean, my advice, which people are not asking for, but I'll offer it anyway, if you're open to it. My personal advice with my background, it would be if you could consider eating meat while you're pregnant. And I would try to raise your child with some exposure to me until they can make a choice on their own. Yeah, I know. And that would be my and then maybe once you have the child and we're done breastfeeding, and that would be the ultimate advice. But of course, that's not realistic for

everybody. And that doesn't resonate with everyone. I understand. So that being said, I would just make sure you are getting labs drawn. You are working with a naturopath or functional medicine doctor to make sure all your levels are optimal because moms are depleted enough as it is. And this is another interesting thing. I just went to a class where there was actually a study that kind of backed this up. And I was just seeing it observationally also. Generally around child three, and then of course there's kid, you know, child four, five, six,

we see an increase in under mineralized enamel in the third child, especially when the kids are head close together. And again, it's very likely due to maternal depletion. And just moms are exhausted and not supporting themselves. And they just haven't gotten back to baseline biochemically with their mineral reserves and things of that nature. I mean, growing a human is a big undertaking. And so the advice that this provider, who's an Institute of Functional Medicine certified dentist said is if you are going to get pregnant with child three is to really load up on all the good stuff. Wow. Make sure you're really supporting yourself. Yeah. That's really interesting, especially when you think about too. I mean, it's hard enough even if you eat meat these days to get all the vitamins and minerals and nutrients

that you need because of our soil depletion. Totally. And if you have gut dysbiosis, are you really absorbing them ideally? You know, are they bioavailable? I mean, it is complicated. And again, we can just do the best we can do with what we have, you know. So a lot of this is just informational. It's not to be sensational or to create stress or overwhelm. You just kind of chip away at it. Yeah, exactly. And I like to remind people all the time, you know, try not to get too overwhelmed. Take in all the information and then do what you can with your life.

You know, do baby steps. Maybe make a promise to yourself that you'll change one, you know, one thing every like three weeks or something. And you just tackle it one at a time. Because this is something that, I mean, I've been working on my health and everything we've been talking about for the last 15 years. This doesn't happen overnight. Oh, I'm still working on it. I just had tonsil surgery. I was like, well, time for that now. Check, check that one off. I'm now trying to get my heart rate variability looking better. It's terrible. I mean, holy cortisol stress case over here. I'm sorry to hear that. I used to struggle a lot with that. I still am not fully healed. I sound like I'm, I am, but I just got,

I literally just got my blood work back today and my doctor was really impressed. Like I've, we've been working on this for, but you know, I've been working on this for eight years. Yeah. It takes time. It totally takes time. I mean, it's like a little science project. You're your own little science project. Exactly. And that's why I'm so grateful for people like you that are spreading this kind of information because then it allows people then to figure it out for themselves, you know, and you know what to ask your doctor and, and you know where to kind of look for information. And actually speaking of for people listening, if they want to find a functional dentist near them, how do they find one? Yeah. Great question. There aren't many yet working on it. Um, I would try, so you can try the IAOMT. It's the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology.

There's the IADBM. I'm not going to remember what all that stands for. Holistic Dental Association. But then also on Instagram, and he actually has a website, which is excellent, is Ask the Dentist. Mark Burhenne is a colleague of mine and a very good friend. And he's created a functional dentistry finder that can help people too.

But essentially, there's not many people, not many dentists that have gone through the Institute of Functional Medicine's training. I'm actually going to sit for certification in November. So I do think that is if you can find someone that's gone through the Institute of Functional Medicine, that is huge because they're really going to be able to connect everything. But you just really want someone who's practicing with this mindset, you know, and I would check for sure their reviews, check their website. You know, are they mercury safe?

Are they using clean materials? I mean, that's a whole other topic for another time. Laser dentistry is really important. Are they using ozone in their practice? You know, are they talking about root causes and nutrition and, you know, really digging deep there too. So, but I really encourage people to be advocates for themselves. You have to be your own health advocate now. And there is so much information out there. We're blessed and cursed with the internet. I'm all for utilizing it. You know, try to learn how to read ideal research and quality research and try to differentiate between a blog post and, you know, actual literature. But I do really recommend that you're your own

health advocate. Yeah, absolutely. What do you feel about, I know you have a company, so I'm assuming that you like them, those little handheld flossers, because I've always wondered if they were as effective. Yes. So for kids, it is so hard to floss a two-year-old's teeth, which is, by the way, what I recommend that you start. Anytime teeth touch, you need to be flossing. And follow me for more tips because that could be very overwhelming to say to parents. I think it's great for kids. And there's some patients that they have big hands or they just prefer it. So you can use it in a way that can be successful. You just have to know how you're angling it. You really need to try to scrape.

Again, try to think you're removing the biofilm. So you need to angle the floss so that it's going to scrape one side of one tooth and then back and scrape the other side of the other tooth. So you're just dislodging that bacteria. And if you can do that you're good you're good to go but flossing is super important because gum disease and periodontal disease is the one that is linked to all these systemic issues and for me when you say alzheimer's or dementia check and check i will floss religiously because because it runs in my family. You know, I have a family history of that.

And so I'm going to do whatever I can to avoid. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think about a water flosser? Is that, can that replace it? Or do you need to do them both? I don't like to say replace it. Again, beggars can't be choosers. So if you are like, I'm just not going to floss if i can't use my water

pick use your water pick but if you could do both if you could do the water pick every night and then maybe a few nights a week do some real flossing a tip that worked for my uh husband was that i put a suction cup mirror in the shower and he flosses in the shower. So just try that or do it in the car while you're commuting. I mean, you know, just fit it in. It doesn't have to be this precise, exact time where you're doing it right before bed. Okay. I love that. I have two more questions for you. I want to be mindful of your time. What do you think about tongue scrapers? Love. And why? So tongue scraper, it's removing bacteria from your tongue. The bacteria does. So we have different bacteria and different niches in our mouth, which is really interesting. So you'll have a different colony of bacteria on your teeth versus underneath your gum

versus on your tongue versus on your palate versus on your cheek. They're all different, which is kind of cool. And they all communicate to one another. versus on your tongue, versus on your palate, versus on your cheek. They're all different, which is kind of cool. And they all communicate to one another. So on your tongue, you have a different microbiome. And you want to remove pathogenic bacteria on your tongue. And also you'll be removing food particles, which can help with your taste preference. And so let's say you had something sweet.

You could have these sweet food particles left on your tongue, which could be triggering some of these other food cravings too, which is kind of an interesting thing. So you want to remove that. I will say the same class I went to, you don't want to over tongue scrape because there is bacteria in our mouth and a lot of them love to hang out on our tongue that help facilitate the production of nitric oxide in the body. Um, and nitric oxide is very important for

cardiovascular health. So he, and he showed a study, it was really cool. I'd never heard this, but when you, when you tongue scrape up to three times a day, it actually can have a negative effect on these bacteria that eventually will help facilitate nitric oxide production. So I just tongue scrape once a night. I do it at night before I go to bed. I love it. I feel my mouth feels cleaner. It's one of those don't knock it till you try it. People always ask what about brushing. There was actually a study that says tongue scraping actually does remove more volatile compounds like ones that cause bad breath. It really is more effective than brushing it along. Okay, that's good to know.

I just got a tongue scraper recently, and I've started using it. So, cool. Feels good. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you think is really important for people to know? The one thing I did leave out when you were asking about nutrition is hydration. Just like everything in the body, hydrate because your saliva is critical for your dental and oral health and you want healthy, healthy saliva. And that does have to do with the minerals that are in it, but also the viscosity of

it. And we want it to be hydrated. So I really encourage to get your kids loving water. You know, it will have so many down, helpful benefits just systemically. And I will add on to that. If you're filtering your water, which hopefully you are, because you should be, make sure you're remineralizing the water afterwards. Yes. Yes. Yes. Good good important call absolutely love those trace minerals me too i'm i have a love affair with element i've been drinking that like every day

i drink element every day too i love it i literally what i have right here i have it too cheers we're basically an ad for element right so yeah i really like quick quick silvers quinton two little caps i have those two i love them they're a great company so so good so good so good okay so i ask all my podcast guests this what are your health non-negotiables so these are things no matter how busy and crazy your day is what are these things that you do every single day in order to better your health? This is easy for me. It's sleep. 100% sleep is my foundation. I think it should be everyone's foundation because if you're not getting quality sleep, your hormones are going to be off. Just everything. It's so paramount. I lip tape or mouth tape too, which we didn't talk about. We didn't talk about that. You can talk

about it for a second. I'll say it quickly. Yeah. So you do want to make sure that you can comfortably breathe through your nose for three minutes without feeling panic. That's called the lip seal test. If you can't, it may be that you actually have a deviated septum or inflamed nasal turbinates or just something in your sinus. And so you should work with an ENT. But if you can breathe comfortably through your nose for three minutes, technically you can lip tape. And what it is, it's just physically helping you keep your lips closed during sleep, because we know when we do breathe through our nose, we will get more restful sleep, we'll get into better sleep cycles, we will get better hormone release. If we get into deep sleep, we'll release nitric oxide, there's immune function that happens in our nose and you will wake up feeling like a million bucks. So I would just say

I have an aura ring. I follow it when my sleep window is. I know here's my, I've, you know, I make sure I'm asleep when they want me to be. And I am doing all the things to make sure I'm having quality sleep. It's really important. Sleep was kind of the last puzzle for me to figure out. And I'm so grateful that I've mostly figured it out. Yeah, it makes me feel like a square sometimes because I don't stay up late anymore. I just cannot physically do it. I mean, and I'm trash the next day if I do. So anyway, but I'm more productive and happier because of it and just

feel better. Yeah. You just feel better when you get good sleep. It really is. You really do. Really is the best. So for everyone listening, where can they find you? So I have a website, Dr. Stacey, D-O-C-T-O-R-S-T-A-C-I. I am on Instagram, Dr. underscore Stacey and Dr. spelled out. And now I'm on TikTok. I saw that today, I think on your Instagram. Yeah, that's been fun. So I'm just playing around with the different platforms, but yeah, that's where I'm at these days. Yeah. Everyone go follow her. Such a fun follow. I love your stuff. It's great. Oh, you're sweet. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, Courtney. It was fun.

Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only.

It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.