Realfoodology - Restore Your Health and the Planet with Jordan Rubin

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

92: Jordan Rubin is the co-founder and CEO of Ancient Nutrition, a supplement company with its mission to restore our health, strength and vitality by providing history's healthiest superfoods to the modern world. He also founded Garden of Life, a leading whole food nutritional supplement company. We talk about why regenerative agriculture has the solution for the 3 biggest issues we face in our lifetime: human health, the health of our planet and the health of animals/livestock. Check Out Jordan: https://ancientnutrition.com/ https://ancientnutrition.com/pages/sustainability Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. All the world's problems can be solved in a garden. Think about it. If we will start growing and raising our food and supporting those that do, so many things will change for us. Hey everyone, you are listening to The Real Foodology Podcast.

I am your host, Courtney Swan. If you are new here, welcome. I'm so happy that you're here. I started Real Foodology about 11 years ago when I was getting my master's of science in nutrition and integrative health. It began as a simple food blog where I had an outlet to write about all the things that I was learning about health and nutrition and the human body and the food industry more than anything. And it has since morphed into this podcast, of course, and my Instagram where I educate daily on the food practices of the food industry and how you can better your health. If you're a regular listener, thank you so much. I appreciate you. And I'm so

glad that all of you guys are here. Today's conversation is a really important one to me. I've had several conversations about this, but I continue to have more people on to talk about this because I really think this is probably the most important conversation we can be having in our modern times. Because what we talk about today is something called regenerative agriculture. And regenerative agriculture has the solution for the three biggest issues that we face in our lifetime, which is human health, bettering our human health, the health of the planet, and the health of animals and how we raise our livestock. Jordan had so many gems of information to provide, things that I had never heard. This is what I love so much about this podcast. I talk about it all the time that I get to learn alongside you guys.

And he mentioned some things today that I had never heard about regenerative farming. He also has a really incredible story about his health and how he got into the health and wellness world and how he ended up, um, founding ancient nutrition. And he also started garden of life. I'm a huge fan of garden, a garden of life. I've been taking their supplements forever. More specifically, I love their,'s probiotic and I've been taking that for like 10 years now. It's really great for vaginal health. Anyways, this is not meant to be an ad about Garden of Life. I really hope that you guys love this episode and please don't forget to leave a rating and review if you're loving the podcast. It really helps and it means so much to me. Thanks for your support and let's get to the episode. Did you know that

most cookware and appliances are made with Forever Chemicals? Yes, that means your nonstick pans, your air fryers, your waffle makers, your blender could possibly have PFAS. And yes, even our beloved crockpots and pressure cookers. I have actually been talking about this for so long. Back in 2006, my mom came to my dorm room and made me get rid of all my nonstick pans because she was concerned about me being exposed to something called Teflon. Teflon is a coating that is used on nonstick pans and a lot of these appliances that I just named. So I've avoided Teflon, nonstick, PFA coated appliances, pots and pans, you name it for a very long time. And the only option for the, for a very long time was just stainless steel pots and pans. So I was really excited

when a company like our place came out because they started creating really beautiful cookware and appliances that are like pieces of art. Every appliance that I have from our place, I legit want to store it on the counter. And I'm the type of person that does not want anything on my counter because I like it to look really just clean and minimal. But I'm so obsessed with all the our place products that I have so many of them displayed on my counter because they are legit pieces of art. Our place is a mission driven and female founded brand that makes beautiful kitchen products that are healthy and sustainable. Other products are made without PFAS, which are the forever chemicals, and also made without PTFE, which is Teflon. If a company is not outwardly stating that they don't use these chemicals,

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And I more recently replaced all of the bowls and plates in my kitchen because I really needed an upgrade. My other ones were so old. So I got some from our place and they are so beautiful. The ceramics are beautiful. The colors are amazing. Like I said, everything is like a piece of art. If you want to try any of the products from our place, go to fromourplace.com and enter my code realfoodology at checkout to receive 10% off site-wide. That's fromourplace.com code realfoodology. Our place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns.

Do you want to hear the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging? Of course you do because all of us are concerned about aging. There is a class of ingredients called senolytics that were discovered less than 10 years ago, and they are being called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime. Now, when I'm talking about aging here, I'm not just talking about on a superficial level, wrinkles and saggy skin. I'm talking about energy, joint pain, your ability to show up for your life, cognitive function. I'm talking about the real effects of cellular aging on the body and what it does to our body as we age. Now, as we age, everyone accumulates something called senescent cells in their body. They cause symptoms of aging, such as aches and

discomfort, slow workout recoveries, sluggish mental and physical energy associated with that middle age feeling. They're also known as zombie cells. They're old and worn out and not serving a useful function for our health anymore, but they're taking up space and nutrients from our healthy cells. Much like pruning the yellowing and dead leaves off of a plant, qualia senolytic removes those worn out senescent cells to allow for the rest of them to thrive in the body. And you just take these supplements two days a month. That's right. Just two days a month. Qualia senolytic is an amazing product that helps to remove these senescent cells. And if you want to hear more about the product and more about these senescent cells that affect aging, go back to the episode

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Thanks to neurohacker for sponsoring today's episode. Hi, Jordan. How are you? Doing great. Good. I'm so glad that we finally got connected. I'm very excited about this episode. So you have a really incredible story. And I feel like this is kind of how you found yourself in the health world. So can you share a little bit about what you went through that brought you here? Yes. And I've made the commitment upfront that I am going to suffer no more tragic experiences that helped me start either a career or a company. So just so you know, I'm sharing this, but this is no longer

going to continue. But in all seriousness, I was raised in a very health conscious home. So my dad's a chiropractor, naturopathic doctor. So we lived in a time when I grew up in the 70s and 80s where eating health food was anything but cool. I've got a whole stand-up routine that I share about being a hippie health nut kid in the 70s and 80s. It was not cool at all. Today, being involved in the organic movement, health foods, it's very cool. It's very much a thing. So for me, I ate healthy when I was in my home, but I didn't internalize the principles. I didn't own them. I did what I was told

in my house, and then I ate junk food whenever I could when I left. So when I was 18 turning 19, I was an immortal teenager, just like everybody else. Everything I touched worked out. And in this particular case, I was hit with my mortality pretty hard. And I began to experience digestive symptoms and something I really never had experienced before. I was at a week-long youth camp. I was a counselor and I started to have gut issues, started losing weight. I thought it may have been the camp food, which, you know, could have contributed, but I started to have gut issues, started losing weight. I thought it may have been the camp food, which, you know, could have contributed. But I started running a fever, had to leave camp early and went to a few doctors. They gave me some tests, sent me back to college with some antibiotics and

said, you'll be fine. Problem is, I wasn't fine. I was already down 40 pounds. I was about 185 pounds, six feet plus. And I was now down to 145, but I was not going to miss the start of my sophomore year at college. It was not an option. But when I was there, I deteriorated further. My weight continued to plummet. I had terrible joint pains. In fact, I was walking to class, guitar class. You could tell I took a pretty tough course load. And my hip sort of felt like it cracked and came out of the socket at the same time. And I was in excruciating pain. My gut felt like I was being operated on with no anesthesia. I mean, it was just a disaster. I didn't want to tell my parents how bad a disaster. I didn't want to tell my parents how bad I was because I didn't want to leave, but ultimately I had to. And I was in

college in Tallahassee, Florida. I lived or I grew up in South Florida, Palm Beach County, Palm Beach Gardens area. So I flew home and when I got there, I had a 103 fever. My dad made an ice tub for me, put me in there. And then he left the room and he yelled, Oh my God, I don't want my son to die. So that's not the most comforting thing that an 18 year old hears, or maybe 19 from their dad. And it was, it was a struggle. He tried a bunch of different treatments and diets. I ended up, because I was so acute, I had to go to the hospital and was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which back then was very rare. Now, it is one of two inflammatory bowel diseases along with ulcerative colitis, and it really was rare. Even back then, I want to say it was one out of every 10,000.

My estimates are probably today one out of 1,000, one out of 500. It's so much more common. And I was really faced with, I guess you'd say, my mortality. I still somewhat thought this was going to be short-lived and I was going to get better and go back to school. That's all I focused on, but it didn't happen. I ended up on this hamster wheel of conventional and alternative medicine and ended up visiting 70 medical experts to try to help me get well. And in many cases, Courtney, I think the treatment was worse than the disease. The one significant point I want to make, really a few actually,

but the main one is during the height of my illness, I was down now to 110 pounds. I was a low of 104, believe it or not. And if someone's interested, if you search my name, Jordan Rubin, click on images. Now there's two Jordan Rubins. There's a horror film writer that my kids call the bad Jordan Rubin. And there's me, who his kids call the weird Jordan Rubin, probably. But you'll see my before picture. It could be on the front cover of a book, but literally skin and bones emaciated. And it was during that time, middle of my illness, where I had this idea that I needed to have faith because I believe that God did not create me to suffer and die as a 19-year-old.

But after being sick with Crohn's disease and then 18 other illnesses, wasting away in my parents' house, being taken care of like an infant, I was ready to die. I mean, I'm not afraid to say it. I didn't want to live in this prison that was my own body. And at that time, I just something within me gave me enough faith to stand up, which wasn't easy, stand in front of a closet in my parents' home and have my mom take my photograph. And this was not digital. This was you can't do any airbrushing or any type of digital editing. But me and my skin and bones and my boxer shorts, all 111-ish pounds of me, my mom pleaded with me not to take the picture

because it broke her heart to look at me. And I said, Mom, you need to take this picture because the world's not going to believe the miracle that God's about to do in my life. And I didn't say it with a smile. I didn't say it with joy. But I guess I said it with enough conviction that something happened. And I didn't get well the next day, the next week, or the next month. But I believe that seed of faith was a spark that ultimately led to my recovery. And about a year later, it's a long story. I should have warned you.

No, it's great. I met a man who I would refer to as an eccentric nutritionist by phone. He was in San Diego. I was in Florida. And he said, Jordan, if you come to San Diego, I will teach you how to eat and live like the Bible says, a real food diet. And I tried raw food, vegan, macrobiotic, food combining. I tried a keto diet, everything under the sun.

Certain authors were my personal nutritionists and doctors don't think I was eating junk food. I tried everything. And something inside of me said that this was going to work. And I was in a wheelchair at the time. And I just told my mom, I said, I'm going to get well and I'm going to follow this man's teachings. And I went to San Diego and I just planned on getting well, never coming back the same. And I learned at that time a few principles. One was this concept of eating a real food diet, which was an omnivorous real food diet, grass fed meats and raw pastured cultured dairy products and raw carrot juice and sourdough breads that are whole grain, et cetera, et cetera. I also learned about the importance of speaking life, which was critical for me,

an emotional standpoint. And the seeds were planted that one day I was going to need to raise and grow some of the world's healthiest foods because the foods that were helping me get well on this journey that I would later call the maker's diet in San Diego, they were not easy to obtain. I lived in a motor home and had a cooler with no, I didn't have a generator. So I had to find fresh food every two, three days. And the raw kefir might not be there and the raw carrot juice, the delivery might not have come in. And that was devastating to me. So I said to myself, if food's this hard to get, I need to grow and raise it at some point. Not to say I knew anything about farming, but I made a commitment then. I also made the commitment that when I get well,

I'm going to help one person overcome disease or better yet, avoid it. So all this I made a commitment then. I also made the commitment that when I get well, I'm going to help one person overcome disease or better yet, avoid it. So all this happening in my 19, 20, 21, and what this man Bud, this eccentric nutritionist told me, said, you'll be well in 90 days and you'll be working out on the beach. If you were able to search on Google images, you'll see a photograph of me on the beach having worked out recently. So it was amazing, the miracle that I experienced. And once I got well, I started to share this message with the world one person at a time. That's an amazing story. That's so incredible was I was laughing as you were explaining how you grew up with your family being kind of hippie and eating organic and healthy I had a very similar childhood my mom loves to remind me now that I used to throw fits back in the day because I

she wouldn't allow me to eat McDonald's and Burger King like all my friends and I ran into one of my best friends moms a couple of years ago, and she was laughing at me. She, cause she was like, I cannot believe that you are now, you know, who you are as a nutritionist and all this stuff, because I, she goes, I remember you coming over as a kid and you would just like clear out our pantry with all of the junk food that I could get my hands on, which is just, I don't know. It's funny that, um, us kids that grow up in those lifestyles usually end up just going to town and all the like junk foods that we can't get our hands on. Um, so I'm curious to know, since you grew up with such a healthy diet, do you have any understanding as to what led to all of these health issues?

Yes. And here's the good news, Courtney, I didn't prep for this podcast. So what I'm going to share, I don't know if you agree with it or not. So interesting. So basically, I started to get excited about nutrition when I was 16, 17 years of age, I call myself an athlete. I was a cheerleader in high school, which was kind of difficult. I ended up becoming a cheerleader in college, which was even more difficult. I was the only chance I would have a division one athletics. And so I got into the health and fitness craze of the 90s. And if you think about the late 90s, it was kind of like fat free snack wells. So I literally tracked my diet. And my goal was to have as many carbs and as little fat as possible, which is somewhat ironic based on what I teach

today. In addition, because my dad is a chiropractor and a naturopath, I was not immunized or vaccinated as a child. Now, when I was 16, there was a supposed measles outbreak in my high school. And they said, if I do not get this vaccine, which turned out to be the measles, mumps, and rubella, I would be suspended for three weeks. And my dad said, don't do it. It's not worth it. I just didn't want to take the suspension. So I got a very small needle in my shoulder. And years later, research that has now been disputed, but I believe it's legitimate, shows that that MMR vaccine contributes to inflammatory bowel disease, pervasive developmental disorders, et cetera. It was actually Andrew Wakefield's

research that I read when I was 19 years old in San Diego. So we're talking about 27 years ago. So I think a combination of the immunization, I think the diet, when I went away to college, I was really focused on low fat, carbs were fine. I was under a lot of stress. I was a cheerleader. I had practice every day. I was in a singing group at church. I was the chaplain of a fraternity and I went to class occasionally. So I was super busy, super stressed. And I think all of that set me up for this downfall. But here's a better answer, Courtney. You said, some people will say, why'd you get sick? And I would say that there are lots of reasons that could have caused my illness, but I believe the reason I had this incurable illness and was blessed to be healed is for someone listening today. Really,

I know that sounds a little bit cliche, but I made a commitment during my illness that if God would heal me, I would spend my life helping people get well. And I didn't know that I'd have a platform, but I always stay focused on that one person. So somebody's listening. I'm confident that either themselves has an incurable disease, has been given no hope. They have a friend, a relative, a neighbor, a child. And I believe, and I've said this time and time again, including this past weekend, I was giving six seminars in one day. I said that we as a nation and world are deficient in certain minerals, certain vitamins, certain omega fats, but we're more deficient in hope. And if I can help give people hope that the actions you take today can transform your tomorrow, then I will be able to answer the

question, why did you get sick? So, you know, in the illness, the before picture, the faith, it has brought me really everything that I have today in terms of my mission. So I would like to say it's from tragedy to triumph, from mess to messenger. And once getting well, I started working at a health food store stocking shelves for $4.25 an hour. I wasn't good at it, but I did take every chance I could to share my before picture with anyone who came in asking a health question. And I'd recommend a food, a supplement, skincare product. And they would come back to this minimum wage shelf stocker and say, do you remember me? I'm the one that's child had asthma or I had the skin condition and I'm better and I get hugs. And I thought I'm hooked. So eventually, and this is a very, very, very long story.

I was written about in a natural health medical journal in August of 97. And the diet and supplement ingredient that I was using to help me get well that was a probiotic from with my dad's credit card and a dream that would later become Garden of Life, which is now the top nutrition brand in natural health. I started writing books. My first, Patient Heal Thyself, the one that's most, I would say, distributed is The Maker's Diet. And in addition, I began lecturing and then became a farmer and then started my current company, Ancient Nutrition. So that's a little shortcut. And in between, I adopted five children, married for 22 years and have one biological child. And my kids, Courtney, do not eat junk food when they're out of the house. Most of the kids, most of the time. So, and I can't even force them to, it's amazing how different it is when you take control of your own health or life

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This is really exciting. Organifi now has kids stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called easy greens and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other one is called protect. It's a delicious wild berry punch, like the Kool-Aid that we used to have as a kid, but without any sugar. This is really exciting. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, you know that I'm a huge fan of Organifi and most specifically because every single product that they make is glyphosate residue free. So you know that you're going to be able to give these powders to your kids and know that they will be able to consume them safely without any glyphosate in it. So let's break down each one. The easy greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. It helps to fill in nutritional gaps, aids in growth and development, supports digestive health, has a rich micronutrient profile, and includes digestive enzymes. This would be a great way to

sneak in greens for your little one without them actually knowing that it's healthy for them. And the second one, which is the wild berry punch similar to Kool-Aid is called Protect, and it is to support your child's daily immune health with food-derived nutrients that work to strengthen their body's first line of defense. I know just through girlfriends of mine that have children that when your kids are going to school, going to daycare, they're coming home sick a lot more often just because they're getting exposed to different kids and different viruses when they're out in the world playing with kids. So this would be a great way to help to support your little one's immune health. It's organic and it's also made with real whole food ingredients. It has a

delicious berry taste and it's low sugar and it's gentle enough for kids to take every single day. And I really love the ingredients in this one. It's orange and acerol cherry, which is a powerful source of vitamin C and antioxidants, astragalus, elderberry, and propolis. These are all really great for overall immune health. If you want to try the products that I talked about today or any of the Organifi products, go to Organifi.com slash Realfoodology and use code realfoodology for 20% off. Again, that's Organifi. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash realfoodology. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I'm such a believer in that in life, we are given challenges that we can, that we're never given a challenge that we

can't take on. And I do believe that we go through these trials and tribulations in order to either propel us into our passions, what our soul's purpose was on this planet. And it's very clear that you were meant to go through this so that you could be an example and help others that are struggling through this. And also it helped you create all these amazing companies. I want to talk a little bit about the farming that you talked about, or that you mentioned. I want to say one thing, and then I'm going to ask you another question, just for anyone listening, that's a little bit more curious about what you said about the vaccine.

I will say this. I know there's a lot of studies that there's a connection between the vaccines and autoimmune disorders. So something to look into for people that are, if that kind of piques their interest. So going into, after what you went through, what did you learn about, what kind of foods did you find that really helped support gut health? So you're in this sickness and then you meet this nutritionist. What did you start doing and implementing that really helped heal your gut? And what do you do now still to help with your gut? Yeah, that's a great question. Now I was extremely underweight. As I said, I over six feet tall and I was 104 pounds. So for me,

and I was that way for two years, so I couldn't gain an ounce. So for me, it wasn't just getting my gut right. I had to improve my absorption and I had to gain weight. So I prioritized healthy proteins and fats. And even the dairy products I consumed were largely fermented. So it was kefir and I tried to consume it from raw sources, goat milk if I could, or sheep milk, and consume cream. I would mix raw carrot juice with raw cream. I saw them do that in Europe when I was at a clinic and I learned that the fat-soluble vitamins and factors in cream help the beta-carotene and the carrot juice become absorbed more easily. I also consumed sourdough, I call it heirloom grains, so kamut, spelt, and I consumed berries, grass-fed meats,

and really that was the bulk of my diet. And the good news here, because so many people, if you look at their books and their teachings, they've kind of flip-flopped or changed. Someone came to me with a book that I wrote in 2002 recently. And other than a couple of names and product resources, the message is the same. And I'm blessed to have a message that I believe is the same today, yesterday, and will be in the future. So what do I eat? Oh, in addition, my dad sent me, when I was ill, a little baggie of capsules and loose powder that looked like dirt. I'd already tried every probiotic under the sun that was available because with a gut problem,

of course, probiotics should work. They didn't. I would take bottles a day. Orally, in any other way, you could take a probiotic. I'll leave the rest of that to you. And nothing worked. So I kind of gave up. But there was this type written piece of paper that said, these are the missing organisms and elements found in healthy soil that we don't get anymore. And it kind of made sense. And we called them soil-based organisms. They became the foundation of the Garden of Life product line. And that really, that combination is what made a huge difference in my life. And I got to tell you, fast forward 20, gosh, 27, 26 years, I'm on the same diet. So you got to like that. Now, I will say 23 years ago or 24, I started doing something called intermittent fasting. It wasn't called

that at the time, but I started narrowing my eating window. And so that would be additional to what I did back then. And certainly I've learned quite a few things, but the base real food principles still exist. The same sort of emotional and mental health messages that I've shared, that I've practiced, it works. These principles are timeless. And I've also been through some other challenges over the years. And every time a message, a book, or a company comes from it, that's why I said at the outset of the call, I want to start things based on someone else's experience, not my own. I tell my kids all the time, you can learn from others' mistakes or you can make your own. It's much easier, less expensive, and less painful to learn from others.

But how is it that we all seem to raise teenagers that know everything? And I have five of them. Oh man. Yeah. That's a handful. Well, if I've learned anything or I, it may just be my personality and being kind of stubborn. I've found that I have to go through things in order to really learn the lesson. You know, everyone can tell me, you know, X, Y, and Z, you're going to regret this. You should do it this way. But for me personally, I found that I have to experience it in order to really learn life lessons from it. So that's – I can imagine that's the hard part. Sorry to hear that. You know what, though?

I will actually say it has really served me well. So I don't regret any of that. How do you feel about people going raw or plant-based to find healing? There's this huge movement right now pushing everyone to plant-based to find healing. There's this huge movement right now, pushing everyone to plant-based foods. And I'm curious to hear what you feel about that. I personally find that animal foods are some of the most healing foods on this planet. I love that you're wearing a bone broth shirt right now. So if you want to go into bone broth, any of that. Bone broth beast. Yes. Yeah. That was, you can't see it on my background, but I just made a muscle

if it showed, it just got blocked out. Yes. You know, that's a great question, Courtney. And the good news is that this is not anything new. We have been, throughout my career and even during my recovery, the raw food movement was always there. In fact, in the late 2000s, and when I say late 2000s, I mean 2006, 2007, we introduced an entire product line at Garden of Life based on raw plant foods. And it was amazing for us because that's what the audience really wanted in terms of health products. So I believe a raw food vegan diet can be excellent for short periods. But here's the bottom line for me.

If I could eat anything, and I'm not talking about health ramifications or what I know is proper, it would be probably almost all fruit and a little bit of coconut, things like that. I could eat 10 mangoes. When I see those videos of I ate 27 bananas today, I'm the person that goes to the exotic fruit place and I could eat a fruit salad bigger than you could ever see. And I'd eventually break out with hives and be on the ground. I think juice fasting can be great, but I would lose 20 pounds. So I tried raw food, vegan diets, and they just don't work for me. And I believe most people with gut issues who are inflamed need some cooked foods. And if anything, the best cleanse, I think for most people is a bone broth cleanse, not a raw vegan

diet. And the reason I say that, Courtney, is that despite what people want to say, we are animals, we're of the animal kingdom, and there's something powerful about consuming food from the same kingdom. I believe that when you eat muscle meat, you build muscle. I believe when you eat or drink the extracts of bones, joints, ligaments, and tendons, yous of bones, joints, ligaments, and tendons, you build strong bones, joints, ligaments, and tendons.

Like supports like. It's traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda. So I have no disrespect for people who eat plant foods. I love plant foods. I just believe that we need to today consume an omnivorous diet. And I've met people that have literally died based on their belief that they have to be plant-based, even though what they really needed was some animal fats, some healthy oils that are compatible with our body.

And I don't just believe it's oral. I mean, while we're talking about this, Courtney, I think, and I haven't done this yet, but I want to develop a skincare line based on all animal fats because even though I love coconut, coconut oil is great. Palm oil that is processed the right way or minimally processed can be great. Olive oil, the best first press is amazing. Avocado oil, sea buckthorn, you name it. But there's nothing like animal oils internally and externally because we're animals. And some people act more like it than others. But I really believe a raw vegan diet, especially if you live in a climate that gets cold, is going to be a challenge long term, really no matter who you are. I have met many people in the natural products

industry that are recovering vegans. In fact, most of us have gone that route. Vegans get mad at meat eaters. I don't get mad at vegans because I love plants as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just mentioned a lot of us in this health space are recovering vegetarians. I was vegetarian for five years and I actually, this is a perfect example of me having to go through it and witness it for myself. Um, I got very sick and by the end of it, there was, I mean, I tried everything and I was also, ironically, I was studying nutrition at the time. So I got my master's in, uh, nutrition and I was studying nutrition at the time and, you know, trying to eat the best that I could. And all I kept hearing was, you're just not vegan enough. You're just not doing it right. I know. And it's hilarious. Like

I laugh at that now because I'm like, no, what my body really needed was these animal foods. And then, you know, what's so funny is almost immediately when I started incorporating meat back into my life, all of these issues went away. You know, the excess pounds that I had gained just fell off without me trying anything different other than just incorporating these animal foods. And as I've started studying more of this too, there are a lot of essential nutrients that are only bioavailable in meat and in plants. Like even though some of them may exist there, if you don't have the right genes to interpret that or like assimilate it from the plants. You're not even gonna be able to, it's not even gonna be bioavailable to your body. So I'm a huge proponent for animal foods

as well. And I'm happy to hear that you are. Yeah, that's good for all I knew Courtney, cause I didn't do any background info. You're a, you, you're, you're a pro-vaxxer and a vegan. So I, uh, which that's usually not the case for most people that are vegans. But the point is, I've definitely done programs where people espouse a plant-based diet, believe that meat and animals are harming the planet, both by their ingestion and by their mere existence. And I couldn't be further from the truth. And I have, but there are also people today and it's a growing but niche movement who are carnivore and eat all animal foods. And I don't have a problem with that either.

I choose to sort of be somewhere in the middle. But if I had to prioritize a food, people used to ask me this all the time on interviews, what's your desert island food? And there's a handful of them, but I do think it's not really a single food, but if I could eat a whole animal that included its joints, ligaments, and tendons in an extracted form like a broth, like a one pot, all animal, no plants, no herbs, no spices, no salt, that would be

to me the most nourishing mono meal you could have. Now, you know, sure, you'd be in perpetual ketosis, etc. But it has what you need to spare proteins, build strong bones, etc. And I could argue avocados are great food and coconut, but neither of those do what I just mentioned. They're excellent, but they are not sustaining, if you know what I mean. Yes, absolutely. I'm in full grants with you. And you just brought up something that I wanted to dive into. So you mentioned that this is also a huge conversation that I talk about a lot on my podcast, that people are starting to believe that animals are what are contributing to climate change. We shouldn't be eating them because they're not good for our health. Can you talk about

regenerative farming and why this is so important? I read that you have over, I believe it's 4,000 acres of organic regenerative farmland. Is that what is behind you right now, by the way, your photo? Yeah, this photo behind me, and I've given it away now because it's gotten dark outside because it's sort of stormy and now it looks really dark. But pictured behind me is our 133 acre farm in Tennessee. And then we have a just under 4,000 acre farm in Missouri. So yes, we practice regenerative agriculture and I am 100% convinced, not 99, not 50, 100% convinced that a regenerative system only works with animal inputs.

And I hate to say it, other than a few brands that I think are misguided that call themselves veganic, the vegetables you eat, they're being fertilized with animal blood and bone and manure and feathers and you name it. That's all allowable and it's necessary unless you want to use a bunch, a bunch, a bunch of chemicals. So you got to get these nutrients in the soil from animals, just like I think we need them from humans. So yes, regenerative agriculture is a huge passion of mine. And we build our plan in seven-year cycles. The first six years involves intense multi-species animal grazing. In fact, you'll like this, Courtney.

This morning, my farm director sent me a video. And you kind of never know what you're going to get on a farm. And I saw a baby goat, a kid, and a water buffalo. We raise all these cool species together. And the water buffalo walked up to the kid that was literally this big. And I'm thinking, I know water buffaloes, you know, are herbivores. You're not going to send me a video of something eating something. But no, it was really cute because one of our water buffalo just went and checked out

the little baby goat and went on its way. And that's important for us because we are working on a mixed species grazing program where there's larger ruminant animals, cows, water buffalo. You might be saying, what's the deal with water buffalo? We'll get to that later. And then we've got goats and sheep that are smaller. And then behind them, we have turkeys, ducks, and chickens. And then behind that, we have turkeys, ducks, and chickens.

And then behind that, we have amazing cover crops that we plant. So this system is the core of a seven-year soil building system. And we believe that this process of integrating animals and plant foods, you could call it sort of a part of agroforestry. I believe in perennial plants more than annual plants. I know I'm introducing a lot of terms that our non-agrarian friends don't understand. Even agrarian means farming. We don't understand that. Can you define perennial plants too for people? Yes, because I didn't learn this as a child. A perennial plant is something that you plant once and it perpetually grows. It produces fruit, some type of reproductive part, and not only does it spread, but it continues to grow. So a tree, a bush, a shrub, a vine, those are perennials. Whereas an annual, it's like a tomato or a cucumber or a carrot

or kale, you've got to harvest it and replant something each and every year. And I'll tell you, Courtney, learning about food and what it does for the body was awesome. And in 2008, I went on what amounted to a six-month tour, 250 cities in a bus, visiting farms, filming a TV show, going to health food stores, speaking in churches, book signings. And I went to over 50 farms on that particular trip. And it was absolutely amazing. And I just needed to be a part of raising and growing the world's healthiest foods, not just promoting, not just using ingredients to formulate supplements. I wanted to be on the ground. And in 2009, I started farming and it's been an amazing learning process. And I love the fact that the name regenerative agriculture, the

term is what's now becoming something. When I first started, it was really difficult to explain what we did and why. But now the UN has done us a favor by saying that if we don't farm in a more sustainable way, we have 60 harvests left until we all blip out or whatever. So we are finally waking up. And I don't use the term climate change a lot, not because I don't agree with that process. It seems to be divisive. But here's what I will tell you. And I told my team this. I had a regenerative agriculture team leadership call an hour ago. I said, just so you all know, there's all these organizations we're working with, and some of them talk about climate change. They blame certain people and blame certain political parties.

But here's the deal. We have something in our environment called CO2. It's there in larger quantities in part because we are losing it from our soil. We need more carbon in the soil, less in the environment, which means more oxygen in the environment and better nutrition in the soil. Depending on what you believe historically, I believe in the biblical creation story, but whatever you believe, lifespans have deteriorated. And I believe it's largely due to the fact that our environment is so much lower in oxygen and our soil is so much lower in carbon. Here's something, Courtney, that blows my mind. A few things. One, somebody said this to me, you can count the number of

seeds in an apple, but can you count the number of apples in a seed? Seeds are absolutely astounding. I also realized that I could plant a walnut today. You have to have the shell on it. You can't just plant like a walnut piece that we eat. And my great-grandchildren can eat of its fruit or nuts. How awesome is that? I used to use the term tree hugger like most people kind of making fun of somebody, but I love trees now. I also have learned the absolute power of a perennial food system and that what we've lost in our soil, in our – the name for topsoil or soil organic matter is humus. Not to be confused with the Mediterranean dip so many of us like. Humus is topsoil. It is the same Latin word that is derived from as human. We came from the soil. We're going to return from the soil. It's our job in between those two important dates to make sure that that soil that gives us life is going to give life to the next generation. So I know I'm waxing philosophical here, but my whole life has changed when I

understood the significance of agriculture and how we can transform health one bite, perhaps one capsule of supplements and one millimeter of topsoil at a time. Yeah. Wow. That was so powerful what you just said. And for people listening that don't fully understand this connection between regenerative agriculture and the carbon in our atmosphere and the carbon in the soil, can you explain a little bit about this carbon sequestration so people really understand why it's so important? Absolutely. So I live in a neighborhood, you could call it a country club neighborhood. My farm's a mile or an hour away. And we've lived on farms. My wife wanted to live in a neighborhood. And it's a new neighborhood. And they were excavating the property next to us. And this used to be a farm. Like most people live in an area that used to be a farm. I'm outside of Nashville, Tennessee. This was a farm of a country music singer, which every piece of property in middle Tennessee seems to fit that bill. So they were excavating, and I thought this is a great opportunity for me to take a picture of the soil, because it was a

perfect cross section. And when I tell you that there was no topsoil, maybe a millimeter. There was no visible topsoil, zero. Now, I'm going to contrast that to years ago. I asked people a question and they always know the answer. When you bury somebody, how deep do you bury them? Six feet. Why do you bury them six feet? Do you have a clue? I would assume it's so that the roots have enough room to grow. Kind of. Most people don't

know the answer to this, but topsoil is very spongy. It's malleable. It's breathable. It's where the microorganisms set up their home and roots can go down easily to your point. America, when it was discovered, was lush. It was fertile. And the topsoil was so deep that if you buried somebody three feet under, their, I know it's a little morbid, but their casket would end up down the street. Think of kind of a tide in the ocean because it moves. There's always micro movement. They had to go six feet under to make sure they cleared the topsoil. Today, they could bury somebody a foot down. So that topsoil, that black, rich, don't call it dirt because certain farmers get offended by calling it dirt. Soil, living soil contains carbon. Carbon is the backbone of all life.

The word organic doesn't really mean a food grown with pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides. It means something that has a carbon backbone. So carbon in the soil is what provides the living system for microorganisms, which create nutrients and immune system function for plants, which either are consumed directly or feed animals. When you plow the ground, when you shovel the ground, when you disturb the soil, you release carbon in the environment in the form of CO2 gas. People call it greenhouse gas to confuse people even more. When CO2 is in the atmosphere, oxygen decreases, and oxygen is important for our longevity, our immune system. It has been said

that cancer can't live in the presence of oxygen, cancer cells. So oxygen and CO2 are antagonists. Excuse me, carbon and CO2. Yeah, yeah, oxygen and CO2. CO2 or carbon dioxide in the form of carbon needs to be stored in the soil to provide a structure to grow food and to really harvest water. When your land is compacted, is hard, doesn't have a lot of carbon. Water runs off into our streams and rivers. Topsoil washes away what little is there. And we continue a degradation. So we are today practicing degenerative agriculture, where every year we lose topsoil, we lose fertility, and we lose so much more in our ecology.

Regenerative agriculture aims to bring it back. And here's another example. There's two things we've done that have been really stupid. One, we've declared war, three, I'm going to say, we've declared war on insects. We think we can kill pests through pesticides. What we're really doing is killing some weak ones and making the strong ones stronger. But in addition, for every one pest, one insect that is bad, there's 1,300 that are good. We've declared war on weeds. So we decide to kill the weeds. We kill the weak ones and the strong ones grow stronger. So we have to develop stronger pesticides, stronger chemicals, herbicides, as it were. And we declared wars were on bacteria. So we create antibiotics that kill the weak germs, but let the strong bad germs grow. This is all about balance.

I heard somebody say that any plant that one of my animals will eat should not be considered a weed. We've just confused everything here. So back to your carbon question. Carbon belongs in the ground, not in the environment. The more carbon in the ground, the better our food will be nutritionally, the more purified our water will be, and the more sure our future will be. I find regenerative farming so important because everything that we are concerned about right now on a global scale, the solution is all found in this regenerative farming. And you talked about something that I think is also really important to note about the health of the soil, which means the health of our produce, of our plants that we're eating. And I think it's why

we see so many people now feeling like they have to supplement because our soil is so unhealthy that now we're having to over supplement to make up for the lack of all the vitamins and minerals and nutrients that are in the soil that are now not in the plants. I also want to note too, for people that are still very new to this conversation, how we're destroying our topsoil is the tilling of the land. And then also by spraying it with pesticides and herbicides, we're just completely destroying this topsoil. And I wanted to mention that for people that don't understand how and why this is happening. So are you a proponent for supplementing? Or do you think that we should just be focusing more on buying regenerative produce and meats and everything that come from these farms where they're growing better, healthier food?

That's a great question. Well, let me say this. I am the CEO of a nutritional supplement company, Ancient Nutrition. So obviously, I do believe in supplements. That being said, supplement has a definition. So does superfood. And we kind of bastardize it. A supplement is something we should consume when we can't get it or enough of it in our diet.

So we talked about the importance of bone broth. I'm wearing a bone broth shirt. Ancient nutrition started with a product called bone broth protein, which essentially is real bone broth in a powdered form that actually has more nutrition than homemade bone broth. We took something that takes people one to two days to make, which I wholeheartedly believe you should, and we made it convenient. Every time we develop a product or start a company, it's to provide something that people don't get. Garden of Life was started with the premise that people needed more soil-based probiotics in their diet. And then it went on from there. So I am a proponent of supplements. Most of the time,

you can consume food that is more important than your supplements. On a rare occasion is the supplement better than the food. But really, if you look at ancient nutrition, we focus on areas like bone broth and collagen, which the average person refuses to consume in their diet. We focus, no matter what it is, if it's a plant protein, we're not going to give you rice and pea protein because I have peas in my freezer and plenty of rice in my pantry, black, brown, purple, it's all there. We created a plant protein that has sprouted seeds

and mushrooms and adaptogenic botanicals. The point is supplements are great, but if you're gonna supplement, supplement with something that you're not able to get in your diet. That's very important. And it can't be a crutch for an unhealthy diet. Food you eat this much of. My hands are not really showing here.

You eat lots of food and you take a small amount of supplements. My small amounts, handfuls, but still it's relatively small. The level of importance of your diet is greater than supplements. That being said, real food supplements are important. I'll give you another example. I know that glandulars, organ meats are super important for your health. I don't like the taste of liver. Will I eat it? Yes, but I'd rather take glandular supplements from raw, freeze-dried glandulars from a source that I know of. That's a perfect example. I can't get enough of certain probiotics in my diet, so I supplement with those. Same with bone broth or collagen. Those, to me, are supplements that make sense. Another example, I'm not a huge fan of eating beets. I love the

benefits. So we make, just for me, we don't even have a product yet. We have organic raw beet tablets and I take those. So I believe in supplements when your diet falls short, despite trying your best to consume only the most healthful foods. Yeah. I'm in agreeance with you on this. When I first started getting into nutrition, I wasn't like really against supplements, but I was more on the side of if you eat a whole real food diet with lots of fruits and vegetables and meats and all this stuff, you don't really need it. But as I started diving more into this regenerative farming and just learning about the health of the soil and everything, I'm a huge proponent now for supplementing actually, especially for people that may not be eating as many fruits and vegetables

as they should be. Or even if you are, honestly, I feel like in general, because the soil health has degraded so much, we're not getting the same amount of vitamins, nutrients, minerals in those plants that we used to simply because of the health of the soil. So I believe that the three things that this is all helping with outside of the health of us and the health of our planet is also the health of the animals. Because a lot of people go vegetarian and vegan because they're really concerned about the lives of these animals. I am as well. I'm very outspoken about these CAFOs because I think it's incredibly harmful for the animals. And it's also not creating healthy meat for us either. And so if we can merge the three of these together and provide a healthy, amazing life for these animals,

while they're also helping us to maintain the health of the soil and of our planet. It's a win-win all around. Absolutely. And look, nobody wants to hear about an animal or any living thing that died so they can have food. But the way that animals work. There is a clear reason to consume them for meat. And I don't want to be oversimplifying things here, but when you raise livestock, which would be cattle, goats, sheep, we raise water buffalo. I don't do pork, so I don't talk much about hogs, but those ruminant animals in a water buffalo herd, because I have one of the largest water buffalo herds in America. That's a whole another podcast, but I believe water buffalo should replace cows. There's 6,000 water buffalo and 97 million cows in America. I'm an advocate for water buffalo. We'll leave it at that. But here's the situation. You do not need one male water buffalo for every female water buffalo.

I'm going to get into the sort of, I guess, call it the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees here. But when it comes to these ruminant animals, one male can mate 25 females. And if you have a whole bunch of males, you've got a lot of violence. You've got a bad situation for your farm workers, and there is a way to harvest meat really from any male animal that's not going to be a sire, a bull, a ram, a billy if it's a goat. And I'm getting pretty detailed here, but that's the best way to practice animal husbandry. But what we don't do, we don't castrate our males, which virtually every other farm that

I've heard of does. We don't dehorn any of our animals. 99% of people that I meet think that every cow that has a horn is a bull because most dairy cattle that you see in the Chick-fil-A commercials and everything else, they're dehorned. Well, I don't believe in that. So we practice extreme animal welfare. Our animals live very well. They eat great. They're constantly breathing in fresh air. They're medicine free, which that's a benefit, believe it or not. Their healthcare plan is in eating the best food there is. And when they are harvested, right now, we're not even harvesting our animals for commercial use, but we're building our herds. But when they are, we do it in a very, we call it humane way, but it is

as sudden as possible. And there's been humane ways of slaughtering, starting with kosher and other ways for millennia. So I don't know what to say other than if you believe in plant food, the best way to get plant food, I know some are going to disagree with me, is to consume animals that consume plants. Because they are taking these plants that we can't always digest and they're turning them into good fats, excellent bodybuilding proteins, and so much more. And when you watch an animal eat only pasture and be in the sunshine, you're going to say, you know what? I can see why this animal can provide life. And I got a little detailed in the agricultural side, the animal husbandry side, but I have many water buffalo bulls that have been bullied and kicked out of the herd that basically can't survive in that setting. And so I know for a fact,

it's better not to, I'll call it better not to mutilate animals. And what I also know is that 50 to 80 to 100 bulls hanging out together is not good for infrastructure, neighbors, people's health, or their own health. So that's one unsung reason we should look at raising animals in a healthful way, practicing animal kindness, and knowing that there is a way to consume meat. I call myself a conscious omnivore. That's the best way to say it. I don't just blindly eat any meat out there that comes from a horrible environment.

I can give statistic after statistic about CAFOs and what we're growing crops with in America. It's so ridiculous. But suffice it to say that I believe that animals are alive. I believe that plants are alive too. Maybe they don't talk, but I saw an article yesterday that mushrooms now can use up to 50 words, somebody said. So maybe that's even true. But the point is your lettuce is alive too. And your soybeans are alive as well. And I don't believe – for anyone who thinks that monocrop agriculture creating impossible burgers is going to be the future, you are definitely up a creek without a paddle. I love that saying.

Well, and also a lot of people don't understand this, but there's no such thing as a bloodless diet. Even those impossible burgers, they are contributing to the death of animals. I mean, think about all the ground animals and critters and, you know, the snakes and, I mean, even the birds. So we're killing off all these insects and then the birds have no food to eat. So either way, you know, this is just the circle of life and it's something that we have to come to terms with at some point in our life that, you know, with, this is just the circle of life. And it's something that we have to, uh, come to terms with at some point in our life that, that, you know, with life also comes death and it's really sad and it's hard, but also, um, it's just a part of life that we have to get used to. And it's, I just think it's so ironic

that, you know, we're pushing these impossible and beyond burgers right now. And they're saying, oh, it's, you know, better for the environment. It's better for the animals. And I'm like, it, it, they kill more animals with that monocrop farming than they do if someone was just to eat a cow. And it's so ironic. And then on top of that, they're spraying all the soil with the pesticides and they're tilling the land and it's contributing to all these climate issues and the carbon in the atmosphere. And I just, I love to make all these connections for people. So they really understand because I believe that if we really, if we really want to move forward and we want to get back to a place where we don't, we're not a ticking time bomb,

we only have 60 harvests is left. This is the way forward. And this is what we have to do. And I feel so strongly and passionately about it. And I'm happy to hear that you are, um, you're, you're doing amazing things in this space for this. So thank you. You're very much needed right now in this world. I appreciate it. And some of what I've shared today, I haven't shared before, which is great. I always love when people pull interesting information from me. But I think that we need to look back at history. And honestly, Courtney, I hate to say it, some people just need to grow a brain. Like some people don't realize what they're fighting for. And listen, I'm just like everybody else. I could be in the Midwest driving from Nebraska to Iowa and see these beautiful fields

of green and I see corn and I see soy. And then you see cotton in the South and you think, oh, this is beautiful. This is a farm. But this is our grandchildren's stolen future. We haven't even gotten into the challenges of genetically modified organisms and the chemicals that are used to harvest, to grow, you name it. There are farmers now that say, listen, we don't have any soil. All we have is a bunch of dirt that holds seeds. We get all of our fertility purchased from the chemical man or chemical company. This is not a way to live. I'm going to give you some stats. I said I wouldn't, but I will. Less than 1% of American land is organic. Here's another stat, totally separate, but important. 40% of the world's food is wasted.

One thing we do, Courtney, that is very cool, we work with local organizations, health food stores, catering companies, and restaurants. We pick up all of their food waste to feed our chickens, turkeys, and ducks and build soil. There's multiple organizations that are now food waste free because of what we're doing. And we have, in a year's time, we'll have picked up 150,000 pounds of food waste from six locations. And I feel so good about it. Yesterday, my daughter ate a banana and I'm like, where'd that peel go? She goes, she didn't put it in our composter on the counter. She put it in the garbage and I made her get it out. I have planted every avocado pit or seed that has resulted from the, we eat about 24 avocados a week. It's a lot. Thousand avocado trees a year we're planting in greenhouses because I just, how can you not? So 1% of the land in America is organic. 6% of our land, 6% grows fruits and vegetables. They're called specialty crops. Okay, you ready for this one? When it comes to farming and ranching land, if fruits and vegetables are 6%, 5 to 10 times that is dedicated to three crops, corn, soy, and wheat. All of them are either genetically modified or

in the case of wheat are using glyphosate, which is essentially Roundup in multiple stages of processing. 250 million acres and most of it, most of the soy is exported. A lot of the corn is used to feed livestock. Some of it's made into ethanol, but yet we're confining animals and we're growing a monocrop. We're destroying the soil where we're growing a monocrop and we're destroying the water table where we have a CAFO and the list goes on and on. I've driven a lot of miles across this country and there's always an area near Fresno, California that you literally have to plug your nose for 10 minutes. It's one of the largest confinement dairies I've ever seen. The animals eat complete garbage. Then their manure is unhealthy and it literally pollutes the entire environment. Don't even get me started on hog farms. To call it a farm,

a chicken house, to call it a farm is actually criminal because our kids think of old McDonald's. They don't think of horrible work environments for the employees. They don't think about birds belly to belly being de-beaked so they don't eat each other. Now we're getting into sort of a novel here. But anyway, you got me started. I'm going to finish it. We, Courtney, are not just organic on our farms. We are regenerative organic certified. The first farms in Tennessee and Missouri to have that designation. And here's the interesting part. So we're the first in two states, we're the first ever to be triple certified, certified organic, regenerative

organic, and certified environmental outcomes based by the Savory Institute. That's a lot of words I just used. But here's the cool thing. The big corporations are taking notice. If you look at the major companies from Nestle to Walmart to Pepsi, they are making regenerative pledges. General Mills has in their corporate headquarters a plaque that says the future of this company is based on regenerative agriculture. Now, I don't know how in the world they're all going to get there, but they know it's important because you, the people, are asking for it. So you know what? We start small, and this becomes a movement to change the world. And we have even looked at models where the little farm footprint that we

have, some of you think 4,000 acres is a lot. It's actually a little. There's 900 million acres of agriculture in America. So 4,000 is very small. I believe through multiplication in time, we can end up feeding the entire planet through regenerative practices in very little land. And we can do it with the most nutrient-dense foods possible, a great environment that produces more food every year with less human input and less work. And when we do it, major systems of the world are going to collapse. The food system is broken. The education system is a mess. The medical system, don't get me started.

Agriculture, politics, and education fueling it all. We are broken. And I heard this one statement, which dovetails to what you said earlier. All the world's problems can be solved in a garden. Think about it. Yeah. If we will start growing and raising our food and supporting those that do, so many things will change for us.

We won't freak out when we can't buy toilet paper or when a crisis hits and we realize our grocery stores have 18 to 24 hours of food on their shelves. Imagine that. And I think, if anything, the pandemic that we've been experiencing or whatever you believe this was has shown people that the need for food security and health freedom is greater than ever. And you might be thinking, well, Jordan, it's easy for you to say you have farms. You know what? I'm composting on my countertop.

I'm taking that countertop composter and putting it in a bin outside and then I'm bringing it to our farm. You could bring it to someone else's farm. There's little things. You can grow a potted plant. You get one of those living basil plants from the grocery store and cut pieces off and eat it. You can do something to be part of the solution. We're a bunch of gluttonous consumers here. And I say this

because I was too. It's time that we become contributors to the world, not just takers. We've got to give, we've got to leave something and regenerative agriculture is the best way to do it. Yeah. Wow. Like standing ovation, everything that you just said. I'm just so glad that you went off on that rant because people really need to hear it. Seriously, it's so important. And you're speaking to everything that I've been, I feel like I'm yelling, you'm yelling down a tunnel and no one's listening for the last 15 years because people – what you just spoke to, so many people are in the dark about all this. So many people are unaware of these monocrop produce that – the corn, wheat, and soy that you talked about. A lot of people don't know this.

Our tax dollars are going to the farmers that are growing those. We're paying subsidies. So we are in a way contributing to that. And this is why it is so important that we support our local farmers. We support the companies that are doing it right. We support the places like, I don't know if you're aware of, I love getting my meat from this place called Force of Nature. And they're a farm outside of Austin in Fredericksburg, and they do all regenerative farmed meats. They put organ meats in their ground beef and their ground bison, and that's a great way to get your organ meats in, which you brought up earlier, and you don't even taste it. You can feed that to your kids, and they just think they're eating a burger or bolognese or whatever you want to give them. And there are a lot of things that we can do on a daily basis that help.

And I know a lot of people come to me, and they ask, what can I do? How can I be part of this movement? And you just listed off some really amazing ways that people can get involved. And also I would add on to that, you know, go to farmer's markets if you have them near you, get to know the local farmers around you and find out what they're doing and educate your friends on this and why it is so important that we be buying from these farmers that are doing it right. Because we, the consumer drive these trends. Like you just said, I mean, these large corporations are paying attention because we are literally as a population demanding better of our food. And when we demand better of our food, everything else falls in line. That's why I feel so passionately about this. Like you said, it's that connection to

everything right now that we need to fix. It even goes down to the, I love that you brought this up, the workers environment in these horrible conditions. You know, a lot of people don't think about that. That's a civil rights concern. It absolutely is. One thing that is amazing about the regenerative organic certification is that when you have a farm that is regenerative organic, it's not just about the land. You must pay your employees a living wage, not a minimum wage. And what's cool in the state of Tennessee, the national minimum wage is under $8. The living wage is $13 to $15. Now, we were already paying more than minimum wage, but how amazing is that, that there's a thought to not just the land, but the people

that farm it. So you're absolutely right. And then the total opposite is working in a hog farm or whatever you call that, or a chicken house, where you've got to wear all kinds of protective gear that looks like the movie Outbreak. And it's absolutely amazing. Look, there's a lot of bad news out there, but there are people, more and more of us, that are voting with our dollars, but also with our actions. And I think that it's never been more important to do so. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to be mindful of your time. So before we wrap up, is there anything else that you feel is really important about this conversation that people need to know? I think, as I mentioned earlier, we all have dietary deficiencies. We talked about

our soil being poor, degraded, et cetera. Your food is only as good as your soil, but I really do believe the greatest deficiency is hope. And if you're somebody out there that is suffering or your child is suffering, Courtney, I've had people in the last week, month, two months, friends, loved ones die, cancer especially. I'm seeing so many really tough situations that people are in. And if I can do anything, it's to give you hope. And I believe that if you will make decisions to follow a diet, live a lifestyle, and you've got to have faith, I mean, that's really critical part of my own story. I do believe that there is no incurable disease. I believe that you can, through your actions, physically, mentally, spiritually,

and emotionally, transform your health, no matter how far gone you believe you are, no matter what, quote, death sentence you've been given by your doctor or WebMD. So that's really it. conquer whatever we're up against, but that we will survive beyond these 60 harvests because we are going to get the message out that it is within our power to steward this earth and the temple that is our body. That's so beautiful. I love that. So before we go, I want to ask you one more question that I ask all my guests. What are some of your health non-negotiables? These are no matter how busy your day is, these are things that you prioritize for your health, whether it be mental, physical, all the above that, um, yeah, the practices that you, that you do every day.

I'm a very disciplined person, so this is not a short answer, but I'll try to make it as short as possible. So, um, every morning when I wake up, I have 16 ounces of pure water. And I do that wherever I am traveling, etc. And I also, I wrote out something that it's a prayer slash declaration. And I started it years ago. And it basically quotes promises. I believe they're promises of God. They involve my family. They involve the environment. They involve my purpose. So I say that out loud every day, and I journal. And then the last three years, I have been consuming the best way I can

describe it as an herbal infusion. So we grow certain amazing plants and it is an herbal infusion. So I've already had my 16 ounces of water. Then I consume 32 ounces of this herbal infusion. So before I've eaten anything, which today I ate it too. Some days I only eat dinner. I don't eat all throughout the day, but kind of that's my routine. And in the morning while I'm doing all of this, I'm making, laying out all the supplements and making smoothies and drinks and breakfasts for my big family. So I have a lot of, you know, I won't ever do this. I don't eat pork and shellfish and haven't for 25 years, but there are certain, so I've got a lot of negotiables and non-negotiables, but I just shared with you sort of my morning routine. It is my, I'm not a morning person, but I've got a lot of negotiables and non-negotiables, but I just shared with you sort of my morning routine.

It is my I'm not a morning person, but I've become so enthralled with this hour and a half I get by myself that I wouldn't trade it for anything. It's just an amazing time to I listen to sometimes the Bible. I listen to agroforestry and other sort of information to learn, regenerative agriculture. And yeah, those are some of my non-negotiables. And my kids, we've adopted, so I couldn't control when they were younger. But my kids, other than, this is crazy, but I'm so excited to say this. I have ages 24 all the way down to nine under our roof. My kids have not had a single medication. My son had a football injury and had to go under general anesthesia via gas, but no

vaccines, no, I'm talking no aspirin, baby aspirin, no nothing. So that's a huge blessing. I'm not saying that I would never give medicine. There are certain medicines and certain trauma care that is essential, but that's a more of a blessing than a non-negotiable. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. I aspire to have kids like that someday. Well, thank you so much for this. This was such an amazing conversation and I learned so much from you, which is why I love doing this podcast so much. So for everyone listening, where can they find you if they want to learn more? Great question. So ancientnutrition.com is our website. I also have a colleague and a business partner, Dr. Josh Axe. So if you go to draxe.com that has thousands of articles on everything you ever want to know about nutrition.

He has a podcast. We have all kinds of social channels, but ancientnutrition.com. And again, if you want some hope, you can search Google images for Jordan Rubin and check out my before picture. You'll see my books on Amazon, but ancientnutrition.com is probably the first place. But the good news is, Courtney, we can always be found everywhere. I had somebody solicit me and call me and email me. And I'm like, I don't know this person. Somehow he has my cell phone number and my email address. So you can certainly find me on YouTube and the internet and all the other ways you can find anybody. Well, hopefully no one stalks you after this. So people might be a pig farmers might not like me or otherwise, but I've, I've had worse. Yeah. Thank you so much, Jordan. This was amazing. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called heaven by the amazing singer Georgie spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. you