Realfoodology - Reverse Your Biological Age + Hack Your Fertility | Dr. Z

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

EP. 190: Leave Me a Message! In this episode, Dr. Katherine Zagone (Dr. Z) shares her expert insights on extending the reproductive window and enhancing overall fertility and health. She delves into the critical role of biological age versus chronological age and emphasizes the importance of addressing both the mind and body components in fertility. Dr. Zagone provides practical advice on reducing toxin exposure, improving cellular health, and the significance of meditation and spirituality in opening what she refers to as the "body portal" for pregnancy. The conversation covers a range of topics from managing PCOS and blood sugar regulation to the benefits of detox and liver support, ultimately guiding listeners on a healing journey to optimal health and fertility. Whether you're considering pregnancy now or in the future, this episode offers valuable insights into nurturing your body and soul for the journey ahead. Topics Discussed: 06:11 - Clockwize Dr. Z’s background 08:11 - Biological vs chronological age 13:48 - Stress and toxins 20:24 - Cellular health and hormones 32:33 - Health of both partners 38:57 - Healthy suggestions for everyone 45:08 - Methylation 47:05 - Detoxing 53:10 - Tackle one thing at a time 56:11 - Opening your baby portal 01:00:55 - Geriatric pregnancies 01:05:03 - Perimenopause 01:08:30 - IVF and freezing your eggs 01:14:03 - Healing journey to become the mother you need to be 01:16:20 - Embryo freezing Check Out Dr. Dr. Katherine Zagone: Instagram Website Clockwize Sponsored By: Veri https://www.veri.co/ $30 off with code vsm-realfoodology Organifi Use REALFOODOLOGY for 20% off at  www.organifi.com/realfoodology  Cured Nutrition Use code REALFOODOLOGY at www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology for 20% off ARMRA Get 15% off your first order at tryarmra.com/realfoodology Paleovalley Go to paleovalley.com/realfoodology for 20% off Check Out Courtney: @realfoodology My FREE Grocery Guide Leave Me a Message! Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter Produced By: Drake Peterson Edited By: Mike Frey

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. When I see women struggle, whether it's conception or egg freezing or whatever, the healing journey that you need to go on before becoming a mother is the journey to make you become the mother you need to be. And so I think it's a really beautiful opportunity when there are struggles to decide how you're going to show up for yourself. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. As always, I am your host, Courtney Swan. And today's episode, I sat down with Dr. Catherine Zagoni. She's the co-founder of the fertility company called Clockwise. That's Clock, W-I-Z-E, which is a fertility company dedicated to supporting women and

optimizing and extending their reproductive windows. So this is really what caught me and really stood out to me about this company and why I was so excited to get Dr. Z on the podcast, because a lot of the conversation around fertility and pregnancy is, okay, you only have this one window of time, you know, between these certain ages. And after that point, it's considered geriatric and there's not a lot you can do and you're kind of screwed. That's the mainstream general narrative, right? Now, what Clockwise is doing is they're actually showing us that there are ways that we can extend our reproductive windows. And there's things that we can really do to support our overall fertility. And they have a test that you can take. And she talks more about this in extensive detail in the

episode. But there's a test you can take to determine what your biological age is and whether it's going to be younger or older than your chronological age. My chronological age is 39, but my biological age is only 24. And that means that the health of my cells are only 24 years old, which for me is great because I am very much planning on having children

and I was a little bit worried about that. So if you have any concerns about fertility, you're wanting to extend your reproductive window, you're really wanting to figure out how to support your overall fertility, this is a great episode for you. I just want to say that I know this is a really sensitive and touchy topic for a lot of people and there's a lot that goes into it and there's a lot of fears around it all. And so I'm hoping that with this episode, it helps to give you some peace of mind, knowing that there are things that you can do to help, whether you're struggling with it, or maybe you're in my position where you're a little

bit older and you're really wanting to still start a family. There's definitely options. And that's the whole point of this episode is to really give you hope because I have a lot of hope after this episode. It really made me excited. So yeah, excited for you guys to hear this episode. And as always, if you could take a moment to rate and review the podcast, it would mean so much to me. If you're loving this episode and you want to share it on Instagram

and you want to tag at Real Foodology, again, it really means a lot to me. And I try to get back to all of your messages. I wish I could personally hug all of you because I'm so grateful for all of you. So thanks for listening. I am very excited to announce that Cured Nutrition just came out with a new product. It's actually a reformulation. It is something called Aura and they originally formulated Aura with CBD, but they decided that they wanted to reformulate it because they were

listening to their mushroom loving customer base and hearing the request for a cannabinoid free product. So they decided to reformulate it to benefit an even wider audience. So now this balance boosting herbal supplement no longer contains CBD. And instead, they have increased the beta glucan content in order to provide unparalleled immune and anti-inflammatory like support. It has key ingredients like turkey tail, chaga, zinc, vitamin D3, turmeric, ginger root, Oregon grape root, and DGL licorice root. And the key benefits are it boosts immune function and optimizes digestion and nutrient absorption, also reduces bloating and fortifies the gut lining.

Let me tell you guys, I am a big, big fan of mushrooms, specifically turkey tail and chaga. There's a lot of studies showing that turkey tail has a protective property for breast cancer. Chaga is also another really great mushroom just for overall health. And I mentioned that this is reformulated with more beta glucans. What are beta glucans? They are the natural polysaccharides found abundantly in the cell walls of mushrooms. They act as the bioregulators and powerhouses in the engine of natural healing, driving essential functions for immune strength

and overall wellbeing. Beta-glucans are known for their anti-inflammatory like properties and aid in performance recovery and vitality. Turkey Tail works as an exceptional immunomodulator, fine-tuning our body's immune response to be more effective and balanced making it an ally and maintaining robust health and chaga is rich in beta glucans and potent antioxidants giving it remarkable immune and

anti-inflammatory like properties to support overall wellness one more thing to note too cured nutrition is actually phasing out all of their oils except for night oil so if you want to stock up on the calm oil, the pure oil and the calm paw for dogs, I would do that now because supplies are not going to be lasting for very much longer. If you would like to save some money on cured nutrition, go to curednutrition.com and use code realfoodology. Catherine, I'm so excited to have you on today. Thank you so much. Thank you, Courtney. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, I was telling you before we were recording that I'm on a journey this year to really improve my fertility

because I want babies so bad. And as I've watched some of my girlfriends, when they start trying, realizing that there's all these things that they need to do ahead of time to make sure their body is ready, maybe some of them struggle a little bit and they've got to deal with some underlying infections or whatever is going on to really get their health in shape. So I started thinking, I was like, wow, if I want to have babies, I need to start thinking about that now so that when I'm really ready to actually do it, my body is also ready. So I want to dive into all of that today. Let's do it. I'm the person. I'm here for you. Love it. Okay. So first and foremost, tell everyone what you're doing as your company and also how you got into this, how you got started.

Sure. I'm Dr. Katherine Zagoni. I'm a naturopathic doctor and I'm the co-founder of Clockwise. So we make a test for women to find out their biological age and then we teach them how to rewind the biological clock so they can have healthy babies on their timeline. So natural medicine, I joke, I was kind of born into it, born at home, breastfed till I was four, watched my mom go through her own health journey while I was in high school. She was diagnosed with multiple autoimmune conditions, basically became bedridden for maybe six months or so, going the conventional route and decided if I don't do something differently, I'm going to die. So she started seeing a natural doctor, more a chiropractor and really just nutrition and some of the basics within six months got her back to like 80%. And to this day is, you know,

96% unless she has too much sugar, too much alcohol or too much mother-in-law. And then beyond that, so I always knew I was going to go into natural medicine. Wasn't quite sure if I was going to go MD, DO, ND. Chose the ND route. And then while I was doing my undergrad in pre-med, witnessed some family members going through fertility struggles. And they were working in the conventional medical world. And so there was, you know, that focus on how to solve the problem and was witnessing the heartbreak and the struggle and, you know, the darker side of what the journey can look like

for a lot of couples. And so I came at it, you know, going into naturopathic medical school, I'm like, there's got to be a better way. Like there, what is fertility? Like what, what really makes this happen for the couple, for the woman? It's, you know, it's both parts, which we'll get into, I'm sure. And so witnessed that, went into school with this focus on fertility and so have been in practice now 10 years and have really been helping couples make their healthiest babies ever since. I love that so much. So the thing that really resonated the most with me and actually how I found your company was you guys were talking about biological age and reversing it. And this

is a concept that I have become online to the last couple of years because I got a test called function health. I don't know if you know what that is. It's Dr. Mark Hyman's blood work. And one of the things that it came with was my biological age, which I'm, thank God, I'm so happy. So I'm 39 and it came back that I'm 24 biologically. Which is like fertility wise, I'm so stoked. But I love that you guys were talking about it from that lens because I had never thought about it from that lens. You know, I just thought like, oh, biologically, it means I'm really healthy. But also fertility is a massive marker of our overall health as well. Yes. Yeah. So can we talk about that? Because it's probably a new concept for a lot of women, and especially if women are really struggling with their fertility right now. What is the concept of biological age

and how does that pertain to our fertility specifically? Yeah. Biological age is the age of our cells. It's the health of our cells. So when our biological age is younger, our cells are healthier. When our biological age is older, obviously not a good, not a good thing for fertility. That clock is ticking. What's interesting is in the biological age testing world, there's a lot of different types of tests. And when I was first introduced to the biological age test, you know, at first I tested myself thinking I was going to come back in my 20s. I was mid-30s at the time, single in LA wanting babies. I didn't come back in my 20s. I didn't even come back at my age. I came back four years older. And so initially we like went into denial and was like, well, maybe this actually doesn't connect to fertility.

So I went into the research, but sure enough, there are specific aging markers, the ones we use on our test that are directly connected to fertility outcomes. Meaning, and this was specifically what was shown in the study, is that when women come back with an older biological age, they have poorer outcomes on fertility. Meaning when they do egg freezing, they get fewer eggs. If they're going through IVF, they get fewer viable embryos, fewer live births, which is like, it makes sense, right? Like we would, that obviously that's the case. And this particular aging marker that we use, which is based off of DNA methylation. So we're actually looking at the DNA and we could talk about the different ways that different companies are testing biological age, but this particular marker was connected to poor

outcomes when that age was older, even when women were younger, which means if a woman was 28, but her biological age came back at 32 or 33, she got poorer outcomes than maybe somebody who was actually 32 or 33 and came back at the same age. Wow. Yeah. And why is that? Like what's happening there? Is it just because the egg, the cells are not as healthy? So maybe the sperm's not able to stick to the egg and the egg is not as healthy. So biological age is a measure of cellular health. Eggs are the largest cell in our body. And when that age is older, it tells us that there's things, there's things that are happening in the body that are accelerating that biological clock

and that's aging, that's disease and that infertility is a byproduct of health. That's what it comes down to. So the healthier you are, the younger your biological age and also the more fertile. Barring a few other like specific things, like if you have blocked fallopian tubes, that's gonna be a slightly different issue, not necessarily related to biological age, but addressing biological age

and cellular health will help you get better outcomes if you are needing to do something like IVF. Yeah. Okay. Which I will also want to dive into. So you talk about, you talk about this, where you, so your age was four years older and you were actually able to bring that back, right? You were able to reverse that. Can you walk us through how you did that? Yeah. So the first, so again, first I was in denial, found the research that, okay, this does actually relate to fertility. So then I had to face the music, but I'm also not one to easily give up. So now I'm like, okay, this is now my life's mission to solve this problem first for myself and for every single woman who feels that biological clock ticking. Because there's a lot of us. Women are waiting longer to conceive and that's a

beautiful thing. We have more time to do our careers, to do the self-work, to have beautiful relationships so that we're more financially stable, emotionally stable, relationship stable. These are all amazing things for these babies that we're bringing in. It's true. We just got to get that biological clock to like catch up with that. Yeah. And so I faced the music. I went into the research. At the time, there were only like two papers published showing it was even possible to rewind the biological clock. And it was using metformin and growth hormone, neither of which I was about to put myself on. So I dove a little bit deeper. I kind of reworked some of those mechanisms of like,

okay, as a naturopathic doctor, I know here are ways that I can increase my own growth hormone secretion. Here are ways that I can manage my blood sugar like a metformin would do. And so put myself on the initial protocol for eight weeks, retested and was able to rewind my biological clock by a full two years in eight weeks. That's amazing. And then over the next year continued as more research came out, more lifestyle stuff came out. Dr. Kara Fitzgerald

published an amazing paper showing like, you know, specific lifestyle things that we do all the time in naturopathic medicine. Yeah. But sometimes you need a paper to prove it for people to actually do it. You know, showing some really good age reversals. So put myself on a, you know, tweaked the protocol over the year. And on my 35th birthday came back at 31 and three quarters. So I went from four years older to almost four years younger in about a year and a quarter. That's incredible. And now that's what you do with your business. You help other women do that as well. Yep. So I'm curious, what are you seeing from a zoomed out perspective, the things that are women or the things that women are struggling with the most, I would assume one of them would be PCOS and blood sugar regulation. What are the issues that you're seeing that are, that are causing us to age faster and having issues of

fertility? Yeah. I think when we look at what are the root causes, because yes, PCOS and yes, blood sugar dysregulation, but where is that coming from? And the two biggest things I see are stress and toxins. In fact, I think that's why we see age as a risk factor for infertility. It's not because somebody is actually older. It's because they've had more years of stress, more years of toxin exposure, more years of nutrient depletion, a lot of the things that go into that. And so I think a lot of what we're seeing now is stress and toxin related. Yeah. For you specifically, if you're okay sharing, what were some of the things that you needed to fix? Yeah. On the blood sugar side of things, I was terrified of fasting, you know, and being in fertility for, you know, almost 10 years at that point. You know, fasting isn't something we

typically think of for fertility because we don't want to send any danger signals to the body. We want the body to know there's plenty of food. And so fasting is typically looked down upon when you're trying to conceive. But early enough before then, we're finding that it's actually quite beneficial for rewinding the biological clock, using autophagy to help clean out the cells. And so I had been so resistant to fasting. And I did the Prolon fasting mimicking diet twice in that first eight weeks because I was like, okay, I need baby steps. Like, I mean, I could do a 12, like a 12, 12, no problem for like gut health and the basics. But even like in 18, six, I was like, I'm going to be like stressed out about

not eating food, which, you know, and we don't want to create more stress in the body either. Yeah. And so, and there are some women who shouldn't fast because if you are having low blood sugars, that is triggering a stress response in the body. So we want safety and nourishment as like the signals to the nervous system before we get pregnant. So knowing being single at the time and knowing I've got, you know, some time before I'm going to be getting pregnant, I'm like, okay, I gotta, I gotta do this. If I'm going to, there's good research behind it. So I, I did that twice. And then I, I was tracking with the Keto Mojo. I made sure I got myself into ketosis for like a couple of weeks after that. And then I would cycle out of ketosis like the week before my period. So I was kind of like

using the fasting and the ketosis along with like, I don't want to say cycle syncing, but making sure that like I'm not messing with ovulation and I'm, you know, able to make enough progesterone and all of that. So I think that was probably one of the biggest things that I was like so resistant to, but I had to like, again, face the reality of like, this is going to make a big difference, coach myself through it, get the support that I need. And I did it. And it did make a big difference. And then the other piece was really managing stress. And there's an internal and an external component to that. So for me, the external component was not responding to patient texts at all hours of the day and night. I can only imagine. And feeling like I, and feeling like obligated in that way that like constant, like having to be on and it's like, I'm not on call for a birth. Like nobody's having an emergency. Like everybody can wait. But it was like this internal thing of one, like setting good boundaries, but two, understanding that like I am worthy of having those boundaries for myself and having that like mental health space and not looking at my

phone for an hour when I wake up in the morning and being able to like sit on my little meditation cushion in front of my altar and like ground in and center and like be with myself. And so there was a self-worth piece, which led to the stress management piece, which got my nervous system a bit more regulated on like a daily basis, which one felt really good. And two, also, I think made a big difference, you know, and I could I say what percentage was the stress versus what percentage was the the fasting? I don't really know. When we support women and couples in rewinding their biological clock, you know, there's a number of things that are addressed. We actually call it the fast framework because it kind of falls into one of those letters, food, fasting, fitness, associated conditions,

sleep, stress, supplementation, toxins, and trauma. And so, and we also have like a little quiz to try and figure out where someone should start, but most of the time stress is a huge contributing factor. And that mind-body connection, I think is the best place to start because once you get that figured out, all the other decisions and choices and habits and lifestyle things you've

got to do get much easier when you know when you're grounded and centered in yourself and in what your goals are. And like, we're making a super baby. Like, okay, yeah, I'm not going to take this call right now. I'm making a super baby. That's more important. So I love that. Well, and once you address those underlying traumas, the mind body connection, the emotional experience of all of that, like you said, all of your choices start changing as far as like your food choices. And I think about it helps with your stress. And there's so many components there. This was actually, I went on a journey, which I don't need to share because I've shared so many times on this podcast already, but where I was so focused on my health from a standpoint of like diet, lifestyle, all of that.

And I had these, I had a really severe trauma when I was a kid that I was not addressing. And there was that component there that I needed to also address in order to really overhaul my health. And it made such a massive difference. And I, you know, I was like the diet and the exercise, like none of like, it was working to a certain point, but it's like, I was ignoring this big elephant in the room, you know? Yeah. And I see that a lot. Like I have a lot of women who come to me and they're already doing all the biohacking things, the hot and the cold, the perfect eating, the cotton underwear have removed every fragrance from every corner of their life. And it's like, that's amazing. And like, is it creating so much stress to go out in public because you're so terrified of toxins? And like, yes, you've done all of this, but then

you've also had plastic surgery because you're so uncomfortable in your body, which nothing against plastic surgery, but if you're uncomfortable in your body and don't feel safe in your body, that's telling your nervous system it's not safe in here and it makes it harder. In my experience, that is not the most hospitable environment for a baby to want to come in if you don't feel safe. Yeah. So talking about the stress piece, I was thinking about, you know, obviously your hormones play a huge role in all of this and conceiving. So where with the stress, how is that affecting your hormones? And are you guys testing for hormones as well with? So the clockwise, the fertility wise test is not testing hormones. We are just testing

that biological age piece and toxins. So we have two aging markers. One is that cellular health, that biological age of how old your cells are in this moment. And what's interesting is because that is a measure of your entire life. Sometimes people come back older, even when they're doing everything right, because they had a traumatic childhood or they partied for 10 years in their 20s or, you know, all of that back damage is showing up in the DNA, in the epigenome. And so we have a second marker called the Junitin PACE algorithm. It's the aging speedometer. It's the gold standard in the biological age testing. And it's out of Duke University. And it's telling us in

this moment, how fast are your cells aging? And it's very sensitive in that it changes fairly quickly. So what we see a lot is most of our couples and women who are taking the test will initially come back older biologically, but because they're already in like the biohacking world, that speedometer will come back. Not bad. It'll come back. So, you know, let's say the range is 0.6 to 1.4. 1.0 is you're aging at the exact same rate as time. Most people come back at 0.9, which means they're doing a lot right because they're aging slower than time. Wow. They just haven't been doing it long enough for the years to actually fall off that biological age marker.

Wow. So why don't you guys test for hormones from this lens? So as a, because there's a few reasons. One is, you know, as a practitioner to test for hormones, there's some legal, like you have to have a doctor-patient relationship. There's some other things that need to be set up. Our test is designed to be, you can order by yourself online. You can do it at home, super quick finger prick. And it's a great starting place because a lot is going to come back to cellular health and those foundations that are going to improve cellular health are then going to improve hormones are then going to improve egg quality, you know, all of these other things. So I think it's the best starting point. And you don't have to have a functional practitioner on board to run this test and get started with a lot of these things. And that toxin component is so important as well.

So that's the other component of our test is the clock tox panel, where we look at nine different toxins that we know. What do you look at? We look at propylparaben, six different phthalates, and then bisphenols, BPA and BPF. And there's tons of research in, you know, just go to PubMed, look at any of these things, and tons of articles showing they accelerate ovarian aging, meaning they are aging your ovaries faster than you are aging. Decreased success with egg freezing and IVF. So, you know, especially if both couples have any combination of these things, they have fewer embryos, poorer quality embryos, fewer live births. And it's shocking to me that reproductive endocrinologists are not looking at any of

these things before a couple is going through IVF. I know. And it's like, somebody's going to go spend $20,000, $50,000. And there's a documented thing you can look at that's going to impact their success, maybe not 100%, but all of the pieces matter when you're pumping yourself full of hormones and going through this very emotional journey and spending all this time and energy and money. So we're looking to kind of revolutionize the industry. Now, when I'm working with a patient, I absolutely run hormones because it is a huge component and hormones come back to stress and come back to cellular health for sure. And I do see a lot of PCOS, but I also see a lot of just

like low progesterone, like stuff that is a lot of lifestyle, a lot of stress, you know, the stress and toxins that kind of, you know, and poor nutrition. And I hate to say poor nutrition because a lot of the couples that I see are working so hard to eat so perfectly. Yeah. And a lot of them are eating amazingly well. And are they digesting and absorbing properly? Is it getting where it needs to go? Like what toxins are coming in with the food?

Is it as nutrient dense as it should be, you know, or as it might have been 50 years ago, but maybe not as isn't today. So there's a lot of components that go into that. So hormones are definitely an important part of, you know, fertility testing and of the puzzle. But we tend to start with that cellular health since a lot comes back to that. i really love that actually because if you're start it feels like you're just starting at the very baseline and then you can go from there because if you're addressing it from the cellular health place like you said once you start addressing those things everything else it seems like is just going to start falling into

place including your hormones yep because when you start seeing like for example if you're being you know exposed to really high levels of phthalates and you start pulling out the plastic, taking the fragrance out, swapping out, you know, for clean beauty and you're getting rid of all of that stuff, that's already going to address the issue anyways. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had one woman I just spoke with who did, you know, we did we did a live cohort with a number of women who did our test before and after. And then we also got like a lot of subjective feedback on like, how have you been feeling and what has changed? One woman hadn't had a period in like nine months. She was 42. They were trying for her second baby. And, you know, low energy, you know, brain fog, fatigue, all that kind of stuff.

And I didn't work with her one-on-one. This was just following our FAST framework. She got her period back and got it back regularly, which is like, I mean, I do this all the time, but I'm still like blown away. I'm like, oh, yeah, this works. This is like really amazing stuff. Like, like, really, like these simplest changes can make profound outcomes for people. And so obviously her hormones are back online and that's more than just like fixing progesterone. Usually that, I mean, that could have been more of a PCOS picture. I didn't see

her, you know, we didn't work one-on-one. I didn't see any hormone labs. So it could have been more that could have been, you know, she could have been in more of like a premature ovarian failure sort of situation. We don't really know. But what we do know is that it worked for her. And now she's having regular cycles again and feels amazing and is, you know, excited for her next steps. So that is so amazing. Oh, I mean, you're literally doing the Lord's work. Thank you.

Like, this is incredible. Because I just anyone listening that's struggling with fertility, my heart goes out to you. There's so many women dealing with it right now, which is why I'm so excited to do this episode, because there's so many women searching for answers. And what you said, when they start going through the IVF process, these doctors are not talking to them about their toxic load. You know, they're not talking about cellular health. They're not talking about diet.

They're not talking about lifestyle or stress or sleep or anything. You know, they're just taking your money and not even giving you the tools that could also help you with the IVF process or maybe even avoid IVF altogether. You know, maybe. Is it just me or is colostrum

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It really helps to strengthen and bolster the immune system. And I will say Armra colostrum has really taken the internet by storm. And for good reason, it is a really good high quality colostrum. I get so many DMs from you guys just specifically asking me if I use Armra colostrum. And yes, I do. I've been taking Armra specifically for almost a year now. I travel with it everywhere I go. I bring the little individual packets with me and I especially take it while I'm traveling because that's when we are most susceptible to getting sick. And you know what's really cool? There's actually a study that's been done comparing the effects of the flu vaccine and

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they have on that website. They have superfood bars. They have organic super greens. They also have bone broth protein. They have grass fed whey protein. They have essential electrolytes. They also have a superfood golden milk, which is going to be really good going into fall. So make sure you guys check it out. Use the code realfoodology and you're going to save some money. Have you seen that happen where someone was like on the track to do IVF and then they were able to reverse all of this and then they didn't have to? I've seen couples who went through multiple rounds of failed IVF and then we were able to help them conceive naturally.

Oh, that's so cool. I've got lots of babies. Yeah, that was their story from their family. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Okay, so this is starting to be talked about more now, but for so long, this was just only put on the woman and it was like the, you know, quote unquote, the woman's fault. How much of a role does the dad's health play in the, in all of this? It's 50, 50. Um, I mean, you're 50% of the DNA, 50% of the DNA

coming together. And then also that epigenome. So what happens, like what we're testing for is DNA methylation. What that means is these little methyl markers sit on the DNA and turn genes on and off. So what we know now is we can turn good genes on and bad genes off, or it's more like a volume knob. We wanna turn the good genes up as much as we can

and the bad genes down as much as we can. And that's important for mom and dad, both for being able to conceive, but also for the health of that child down the line. So with what's called transgenerational epigenetics, things that mom and dad are exposed to before that baby is even conceived, and this is where that three to four month window before conception or before egg freezing is really important, because that's when that epigenome is getting programmed. And so a lot of these same toxins we see when dad is exposed to them before, like within three months before conception, that impacts baby's risk of ADHD, obesity, asthma, allergies,

eczema, sometimes even cancer, cardiovascular disease. I think it was phthalates in dad was connected to cardiovascular disease and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in those children later in life. So not even like just childhood stuff, but you literally have the opportunity to set your child's health up for the rest of their lives if you just take three months to prep ahead of time. Wow. And that's actually a lot smaller of a window than I thought that it was. Ideally, we're spending a year, but most people won't do a year, to be honest. So three months is the bare minimum. So ideally more, but three months is the bare minimum. And is that because of the cellular renewal, the cycle that our cells are on? Because I know it's

like every, I forgot the numbers, but like every seven days, you know, you have X amount of new cells. And then every like three months, you're basically entirely renewed. Do you know what I mean? Well, I think it's seven years for like every cell in your body has been completely renewed. Okay. The reason it's about three months for fertility is because when a follicle in the ovary starts to develop and also when a sperm cell initially starts to develop till when they've like grown and are ready to be released from the body is about 90 days, 90 to 120. So everything that that egg and sperm are exposed to, all the nutrients, all the toxins, enough oxygen or not enough, you know, there's a lot of components, all the thoughts and the feelings that go with that. Those inputs are altering those genes in

that egg and that sperm for 90 days while they're developing before they come out to me. Cool. And there's other inputs that are getting, you know, put into all of our cells for years before that even happens. So a year would be great. And, you know, people are willing to do three months most of the time. But that's why. I mean, that's great because that feels so doable and easy, you know? Yeah. And do you also test the men as well?

Yep. Clockwise? Yep. Wow, cool. So we know that like older dads increase risk of autism in baby boys. And so that's not necessarily a biological age marker, but chronological age is associated with that. So we are making a little bit of a jump, but again, it's a measure of cellular health. The healthier your cells are when you make that baby, the healthier that baby's cells are starting out and supporting them throughout their life.

So we do have, it's the same test, but we have different reports. So it's written to the mama-to-be, to the dad-to-be, with, you know, and the studies on the toxins are a little bit different. So, you know, these toxins do this to sperm and this to, you know, so it's, it's a little more personalized than one general report for everybody. But yeah, I mean, we got to get mom and dad both ready.

Yeah. So that baby can be healthy. Yeah. Oh my God. This is so cool. I didn't realize that you also tested the men. Yeah. That's amazing. Yep. Well, and a lot of what we're talking about, especially with the phthalates and like the toxic burden, um, do you know Dr. Shanna Swan Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I had her on my podcast like two years ago and we were talking all about this. And for anyone listening that is not aware of her work, she was on Joe Rogan. That's an amazing episode. Go listen to it. She was also on mine. And she's dedicated her life to researching this and how our exposure to things like phthalates are, like you were saying, affecting our babies before they're even in the womb. And then when they're in the womb and coming out. And so this is why this is why we talk about toxic burden so much, because it affects everything

with our health right now. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say for the men, it's also great to get a semen analysis, ideally with what's called a DNA fragmentation. And we've actually partnered with Legacy, which does like an at-home semen analysis and DNA fragmentation. And oftentimes, like my business partner and best friend Sarah thinks this is hilarious that sometimes I'll be like, just do the semen analysis first. Because what I find with the men is they need to see that there's a problem before they'll actually do anything about it. And so oftentimes we'll have, you know, a couple will be struggling and she'll be doing everything under the sun to be as healthy and, you know, to get everything ready. And the dad is, almost dad, is like, you know, kind of like hanging out and he's like on

board, but he's not really like doing his part. And I can tell that there's some things that maybe need to shift, maybe weed, maybe food, maybe weight, you know, who knows. And we run a semen analysis and sure enough, once they see that those markers aren't looking great, they click right in and they're like, okay, warrior mode, let's do this. And they'll do whatever it takes. I love that. Well, I think it's because what I just said a minute ago is the narrative for so long has been check mom. It's all on mom, you know? And so then they're like, oh, I'm good. And they're so, you know, ego about their, their health and their semen. They're like, my, my tea is really high. Like I'm good, babe. It's like, let's test and really see, you know, love men, but you know, sometimes they need to, they need to see the results to really actually like,

I almost don't want to ask this because I know it's so bio-individual, but I am curious if there's something that you see that helps everyone, both men and women. Are there specific supplements, foods, protocols, certain things that you have seen either improve sperm health, improve egg health, kind of over-sweeping? Food-wise, yes. So I would say the most interesting thing that I see make a difference across the board

is grass-fed beef liver because it's- Specifically the liver or can we do the capsules too? Well, usually the capsules are like the dehydrated liver in them. So however you want to get it in. I've got lots of ways. And the reason is because they have a lot of these nutrients that support healthy methylation. And methylation is what's turning... It's those methyl markers on the genes that are turning those genes on and off. So that seems to be one of like the big levers that we can pull on the food side of things. My, I have a couple of favorite ways to get it in. So capsules totally work, but I also like will only take so many capsules a day for myself.

So there's a seasoning blend called Pluck. Are you familiar with them? Yes. Yes. I just heard about them. Yeah. So I love them. And it's dehydrated grass-fed organs ground up mixed with herbs and spices. So it literally tastes like a seasoning blend. But you're getting more than just the liver, but you're, you know, there's going to be good CoQ10 in the heart. And CoQ10 is so important for the egg quality and also sperm quality, great antioxidant. So there's a lot of nutrients that we can get from those organs that are harder to get from other foods. So that's a great way.

I actually just got the carnivorous Aurelius's. The dehydrated liver chips? The liver chips, yes. And at first I was like, okay, tolerable. But now I actually really like them. So, you know, I'm kind of like mixing it up. So that's like an easy, big, high yield lever to pull. The dark leafy greens, beets, you know, food wise, it's, I don't want to say it's fairly simple, but like as close to nature as possible, as clean as possible, like cook at home, get all your good fats in.

And then on, so food, you know, food is important. The mind-body component we talked about is important for everybody. In fact, one of the studies, I think it was just 20 minutes a day of meditation and not even like a specific type of meditation, just like sit down for 20 minutes and relax and maybe breathe, um, showed benefits in biological age reversal. So that, and that's, that was a, I think that was a mixed cohort. So like not just men or women, um, exercise is this huge, important piece. Um, like one of the things I've been tracking is the, um, it's not the longevity Olympic, the rejuvenation Olympics. Have you followed this? No. So anybody who's taken a biological age test specifically with this, the aging speedometer markers, what they're looking at. Anybody in the world can join this rejuvenation Olympics. I was actually number 44 out of 8000 for a while. That's amazing. Yeah. I don't know where I am now. I haven't checked. Yes, get it.

But like I just saw there's a woman who's number two. So I think Brian Johnson is number one. Of course he is. Of course he is. I also want to know what he did to his face. Me too. What's happening there? I'm like, there's, anyway.

And he's so open about everything else. I'm like, just give us the tea, anyway. And he's so open about everything else. I'm like, just give us the tea. Yeah. Where was I going with this? Rejuvenation Olympics. So number two is a woman. And it was like an ad for a product that she's taking, but it was a joke. It's like, this woman's number two in the Rejuvenation Olympics,

and she's only spending $108 a month. And like half of that was a gym membership. What? And so coming back to the basics. So yeah, I could rattle off a ton of supplements. We could do, you know, the NAD precursors. We could do the methylated B vitamins. We could do EGCG. We could do, um, what are some other ones? Uh, do you know about you? Yeah. I'm always going to mess this up. You were a life in a, you're a life in a, yep. I took that going to mess this up, urolithin A? Urolithin A, yep. I took that for a little while. Okay, because I have a friend, anecdotally, who's been working with clients and said that she had something like five or six women that were on it that had been trying to freeze their eggs and got an insane amount of eggs from using it. Yeah, so great for the mitochondria.

Eggs are one of the densest places of mitochondria in the body. And that's a huge mark. That's a huge part of this cellular health and a huge part of reproduction. So yeah, definitely. I haven't used that exclusively, but I have used that in combination with things. And that was one of the things I was on for three months in my like rapid year reversal from four years older to four years younger. Amazing. I've cycled on and off of a lot of different things. But yeah, so there's a ton of different supplements out there, even like simple stuff, vitamin D, taurine, glycine. You know, like I could rattle off a ton of things.

One of the more researched ones is calcium alpha-ketoglutarate, AKG. That on its own, I believe it was like a seven or eight year reversal within, it was less than a year's time. It was like six or seven months. It was a little bit more than a year per month of taking it. Is that for both men and women? I want to say the study was, I want to say the study was just men, but it's something that is, has been put into a lot of different, you know, longevity products. It was, that was one of the things I did consistently for that year of, of myself. And I'll use it with a lot of patients as well, because it's also like, I use it as a powder. So it's easy to like throw in with a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah. I probably have like a $70 smoothie sometimes of like all like the spermidine and the urolithin A and the, you know, NMN and the. And then all the, I do all the functional mushrooms. Yes. Yeah. Which those probably help too, I would think. Yes. Those are definitely helpful, but I'm like, Erewhon's got nothing on me. I was just going to say you're making your own Erewhon smoothie at home for 70 bucks. I love it. I mean, same. These things are important, though. And I was going to ask you, too. Okay, so you've brought up the methylation a couple times.

And I have what we call the mother effer gene. Yeah, oh, yeah. How does that play a role in fertility? Is that something I have to be concerned about, like really be on? I'm obviously taking a methylated B, but anyone that deals with that, is there something we need to know? I would say it's good to know. It's definitely not a death sentence. Different variations have slightly different risks.

For men, we see one of the variations does increase risk of miscarriage a little bit more. So I keep it simple. The methylated Bs, the, you know, methyl-rich foods. So yes, it impacts fertility. It also impacts biological age. So like one of the things that can accelerate that biological age is if that methylation pathway is not supported properly, then it's harder to put the right methyl groups on the right part of the DNA. And that can accelerate biological age simply because of that methyl cycle. So there are components, but I also think it's one of like the more easily fixed, you know, or solved for things. Well, it's interesting.

So many people have it. Every time I share it, almost everyone's like, oh, yeah, me too. Yeah. Like it seems to be really common and it's not really a big deal. You just take a methylated B from my understanding and then you're good. Yeah. And I think some people have, and it can be a lot more complicated than just that MTHFR gene because there are other genes in that methylation cycle. And then there's other like detox genes and what have your exposures been? And one of the books I love is Dirty Genes.

I think it's Ben Lindh. Yes, I follow him. Yeah, I love him. I love him too. He's great. He is great. So, you know, there's lifestyle things that help even when we have these SNPs. There are lifestyle things we can do to keep those genes clean and support those pathways beyond just taking the methylated Bs.

Yeah, cool. How about detox? Like sauna, making sure that your lymph is flowing, maybe getting lymphatic drainage massages. How important do you think that is? Definitely an important part. I think it kind of, again, it depends on how much exposure someone has had over time and what their natural detox mechanisms are.

Some people need that part more than others. There was a study done on a specific detox protocol using the Quicksilver products. So they're like Push Catch, they're glutathione. It was a three-month study and it was three components. So they had people cycle on and off different products. I'm sure it was sponsored by them. Full disclosure. Great company. Yeah. You know, that's how stuff gets done these days. And so what they found was that the detox component, so doing that push catch, which it's

a liver sauce that helps the liver, you know, get more toxins out of the tissues, out of the body, gets them into the bile, into the gut. And then the catch is um a binder clays charcoals and things that then binds it grabs it and then takes it completely out of the body so it's not just getting reabsorbed um and they found that that component accelerated or decelerated the biological age more than some of the other components they also had like an antiviral component using some cat's claw. They had a metabolic component using, I think like some AMPK, their AMPK charge, which tries to get that body into that like autophagy ketosis sort of state. So it was interesting that the detox was found to be a very important part. And of course, they did see biological age reversal, go figure. But it's interesting because a lot of health stuff we're finding does. And I think in the

next few years, we'll see what are, again, the highest yield levers that we can pull. And it might be individualized or it might not be. But for me, detox is an important part, not just for biological age reversal, but really for setting those babies up for the rest of their life. And so saunas are great. I love castor oil packs. I love red light. I love lymphatic massage, dry brushing, all that sort of fun stuff. And it's also like, I try not to overwhelm my patients, like sanity first. So like maybe pick one or two things that you like doing and are willing to do and and be consistent and not like 12 things that just make you overwhelmed and more stressed and then stop everything. So yeah, it's a balance. If you're like me, you know the importance of eating healthy, but you don't always have the time or the willpower to cook with all the colors of the

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the way that my body handles that glucose spike. And I really don't get as an extreme spike as I do when I just eat the carbs alone. Another thing that has really helped me a lot is eating greens before I have like a carbohydrate rich, heavy meal. Little things like that have helped me see in real time like, oh, when I eat this bread, if I don't have like almond butter with it, my blood glucose levels really spike. And then I feel it because I feel that crash. And then I feel that fatigue. Whereas when I can keep my blood sugar levels more stable, I'm not crashing and burning and feeling so fatigued after meals. It's really cool because when you have this insight, then you can start making little

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this because, you know, when I started my journey and was really starting to understand everything that I was getting exposed to on a day-to-day basis, you know, the food, the water, I needed to change out all my cleaning products and beauty products and everything. It was like, whoa, there is a lot here. And, you know, even when I talk about this, I get people write me all the time and they're like, I'm so overwhelmed. Where do I start? You also don't want to be stressing yourself out over this, you know? So I tell people kind of tackle one thing at a time, maybe like tackle your makeup first and then tackle your cleaning products. Like do it step by step. So you're not just like, oh my God, I'm doing everything all at once.

Because you get to a place where it just becomes second nature and then you don't even think about it anymore. Like I've tackled most of that stuff already. So now it's just second nature to me and then it's fine. It doesn't have to stress you out anymore. And it's also there is a component there of you just have to trust that you're doing the best that you can. And you just have to release the rest of it. Like you're doing it, you're trying, and there's only so much we can do. And this is why I really like detoxing and why I do think it's important. And that's something that people ask me all the time.

They're like, knowing all this stuff that we're getting exposed to, what do you think is one of the most important things? And I say supporting your liver because you're supporting the detoxification pathways of your body. So you're getting it out and then supporting your detoxification pathways by sweating. And that can look like so many different things. If you have the budget and you have a lot of money, get a sauna. Great. Or go find a sauna, like go to the gym that has a sauna. If you're on a budget, put Epsom salt in a hot bath, just enough to where you sweat, move your body, just moving your body alone, gets your lymph moving. If you can get lymphatic massages, just stuff like that, where I'm like,

be careful as much as you can with what you're exposing yourself to and what you're eating and putting on your body and, you know, drinking, et cetera. But then also supporting the detox pathways that in my mind is what's going to set you up the best and also give you peace of mind to be like, I'm doing all the things and I just have to trust. Yeah. And remember that the body was designed to heal. Like the body is designed to be healthy. We have this like vital force that wants us to thrive. You get a cut, it heals. You're exposed to a toxin, the body's going to either store it or get it out. Hopefully get it out. Yeah. We are a little overwhelmed with toxins these days, but remembering that the body is powerful. The body knows what it's doing. It was designed,

maybe not for all of these toxins yet, but it adapts. And yes, absolutely. Do your best, trust, and know that you're on the right path. And I do think liver support and detoxification is one of those big levers that you can pull. Um, cause one of the, um, you know, limiting factors of, of cellular metabolism is waste products. And so, and it also, you know, increases inflammation impacts, um, how well the, the different signaling molecules in the cell and extracellularly work. So there's a, a lot of components that make it a very, like, I keep doing the lever, but you get a lever pull. No, it's great.

It's a great analogy. So we've talked a lot about the diet, the lifestyle components. You've mentioned the mind body component. But can we talk a little bit more about that? Before we start recording, you told me something about a baby portal, which I feel like is kind of connected. So can we talk about the mind, body, and then... Yeah. So there's a part of the fertility world, like there's a part of the medical fertility world that's often forgotten. You might call it God, you might call it the universe, but I believe and what I've seen is that these are souls that are coming in and there's stuff

that has to happen on their side too. And so sometimes we can do everything right. And that soul might just need more time before it comes in. Maybe it needs to be a Pisces. I don't know. I don't, you know, there's a lot I don't know. And I kind of surrender to that mystery and sit into the trust. So there's a spiritual component and then there's also the mind-body component. And I think those go together in a lot of ways because I feel the more, at least for myself and what I see with my practice is the more we can relax into that trust and that knowing of like, it's happening. I'm on the right path. I'm right where I'm supposed to be. I'm supported by God. I'm supported by the universe. That is very nourishing to the body. It's very nourishing for the soul. And there's also ways to connect with that baby'll give my like Dr. Z blessing, like everything

looks good, go for it. Or they just feel it's time and they decide to move forward. But I invite them to do a little ceremony to call in their baby soul. And so that can look like candles, that can look like writing vows and speaking vows out loud to their baby soul. So my fiance and I will be opening our baby portal. And when I say baby portal, that just means like we are consciously choosing that we are going to, we're starting to try intentionally.

We're welcoming this baby into our family. And so we'll probably light some candles. We'll, you know, obviously make love, you know, all the good stuff. I don't even know if I'll be ovulating in three months away, but who knows? Good practice. And that's another part is like it can sometimes the trying process can get very stressful because you're like, okay, I'm ovulating now and we got to go now and get it up. Let's go. And that's not very sexy. Yeah. And

it's also not like the best consciousness to like conceive a soul in. And in the Taoist principles, they believe that the energy that that baby is conceived in creates that child's constitution. So similarly to the epigenetics, but a little more in that moment. And I had shared this with a couple and the wife looked at me and she goes, well, I like it really rough. Is that going to be a problem? And I'm like, no, as long as you're enjoying it. And like, that's as long as you like that, like that. Exactly.

Then you're bringing a good energy in. Totally. That, totally. Um, so, so love, joy, sensuality, like really feeling free, um, pleasure. Like those are all great frequencies to bring in a baby soul. Um, and there can be like a spiritual connection component if you want to bring that in. Yeah. I love that. I'm very spiritual. And I just had a soul reading a week ago. And my so this woman, she does a meditation before and really connects with your soul and kind of tells you what she sees as like your soul's purpose and, you know, lines out all this stuff. And she said, you know, you have a spirit baby that keeps coming in like real hard and told me that essentially in order for me to prepare space for this baby to come in, there's some things that I have to do with my business right now where I really need to like restructure, do some things a little different,

get some more support so that I have that time and space for that baby to come in. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very into all of this. This is a big one. Can I share something else? Yeah. So I started talking to my baby soul before I met my fiance. And I felt like a girl energy.

And I told her, I'm like, go find your dad. And on our second date, my fiance looked at me and he goes, I can feel our daughter. And I was like, okay, this is it. Okay. We're going to have to talk after this because, um, there's some things I'm not ready to publicly share yet, but love that in the same vein. Oh my gosh. That's so cool. Okay. So this is kind of taking a different turn, but I wanted to bring this up because I've been thinking about this a lot recently. So I'm 39 and I'm, you know, probably not going to at least be pregnant until I'm 40.

Geriatric pregnancy. I hate that word. And it is started, it's applied at what, 35? I feel like your company is getting rid of geriatric pregnancy. We're working on it. What are your thoughts around that? I think it's a terrible term. I think it's very disempowering. I think there are some genuine risks that need to be considered, but it's definitely individualized. Just like, you know, someone could be 40 chronologically, but their biological age could be 30, 35. So I think there has to be like an individualized conversation of maybe what level of care would be needed during that pregnancy. But to have it be like a catch-all term for just on chronological

age, I think is completely absurd. Yeah. And I'm really a push for precision care and individualized care and also compassionate care. And I don't feel like the term geriatric pregnancy is the most compassionate, empowering, or loving term that could be used. No. I mean, very few things like really get to me. It's like, but that term, I'm like, okay, so you're trying to tell me that I'm going to have a geriatric pregnancy when I biologically am 24 and also feel really young and super healthy. Like I don't, I don't resonate with that at all. And so I it's there because we're applying it to chronological age. But what are some of the things that I guess going into that? So let's say let's use me as an example.

So I'm younger biologically, but I am 39. Are there certain things that I still am going to have to worry about because chronologically I'm 39, even though I'm biologically younger? Not necessarily. I mean, the things that are going to be checked when you're pregnant are going to be like your blood pressure, your blood sugar. Yeah. Things that are their own kind of individual risk factors. So, you know, I've seen lots of women in their 40s have healthy pregnancies, healthy births, home births, free births, hospital births, all the kinds of births. I've seen an 11-pound breech birth at home. Like, there's a lot, like, our bodies were designed to do this. And so I think the closer we're living to nature, the less risk factors we have. And there's a lot of things to check along the way and to make sure that we're getting enough protein and enough minerals. And so I would say you're going to have to go through some of the screening exams.

And there are ones you can absolutely say no to. It's informed consent. So knowing what the risks are, knowing that if you have high blood sugars or gestational diabetes, here are the risks for that baby. Here are the risks for you. And can you manage it by lifestyle? I mean, I don't think that's going to be a risk for you, honestly. I don't think it's either. Yeah. But these are things that do tend that there can be higher incidence of with age because that cellular health isn't as good anymore. Yeah. This is amazing. It's so empowering, you know, and it really comes back to the individual. And I find it so empowering to know that I have a lot of control over this

based on my diet, my lifestyle, and how I respond to all this and how I take care of my body. And so for everyone listening, I just want to remind you that you have so many choices in this. And you can either allow yourself to become a victim of whatever's going on, or you can go, okay, now I have the answers. Let's do something about this because there's a lot you can do, which is really cool. Yeah. You are that. So this, okay. So all of this started for me because I, um, at the time was single, not anymore, thank God. Um, but was, you know, really desiring to be a mom and was really struggling in dating and I'm very healthy, but you know, there's, there seems to be a lot of conversation online right now, at least in my algorithm that I'm in at, but you know, there's, there seems to be a lot of conversation online right now, at least in my algorithm that I'm in at the moment, a lot of talk about perimenopause.

And I started getting really freaked out because what it seems like from my lens, and I think it's because we're so unhealthy as a population right now, that more and more women are going into perimenopause earlier and they're going to menopause earlier. And my thought is because it's, we're not healthy. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like that's 100% what's going on right now. But it started really freaking me out. Cause I was like, Oh my God, I'm 39. Like I need the man. I want to have a baby. Am I going into perimenopause? Like I'm seeing all these TikToks of like all these signs and symptoms of you're going into perimenopause. I don't

actually think it's happening, but if someone is starting to go into perimenopause. I don't actually think it's happening, but if someone is starting to go into perimenopause, are they still able to get pregnant? The answer is it depends. Yeah. So if somebody is still ovulating and their health is good, it's definitely possible. Yeah. I mean, the other question is how are we defining perimenopause? Yeah. Are we defining it by, you know, irregular cycles? Are we defining it by low progesterone? Are we defining it by irregular cycles? Are we defining it by low progesterone? Are we defining it by symptoms? So if somebody comes to me and they're only having a period every six months

and they're having hot flashes and night sweats and insomnia, I'm gonna say, okay, that's probably, it's probably gonna be a little bit harder. We probably need a lot more intervention, maybe huge lifestyle overhaul. If you are still having a period, let's see if you're ovulating. If you are, it's possible.

I mean, I think with reproductive technology, we're seeing, you know, like, was it Janet Jackson at like 50? That was incredible. There's a lot happening. Now, the truth is that's not gonna be possible for the majority of society. Yeah.

But we're kind of in this in-between phase of like, there's a lot of technology. It's also very expensive. And there's a toll it takes on the body. There's also a lot we're learning on the natural side of like prolonging our reproductive window. One of the important things to note, though, is the earlier you start working on like fertility health, hormone health, usually the better off you're going to be. Because trying to like already being, let's say, the better off you're going to be because trying to

like already being, let's say 42 and now trying to rewind the clock, let's say you come back at 46, it's going to take you a year or more, or maybe less to rewind that clock and get your period, you know, consistent again and get you ovulating again and that sort of thing. So it's like, I really want to get the message out to women in their twenties, women in their early thirties who are like focusing on the career right now. It's like, start testing now, start doing all the things now, prioritize yourself now so that when it is time, you are ready when you're 40 to like, I actually was about to freeze my eggs before I met my fiance. Really? Yeah. I told the universe it was fall of 2022 And I'm like, okay, I'm going to start this like three months. And I say three month protocol, but like, I'm always on something. I'm doing all the things

right now. I'm lifting very heavy and you know, whatever, but love that. And, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to, so we do have this technology of like, you know, I didn't know when he was going to come in. I do know, you know, even everything I'm doing to rewind my biological clock, it's nice that we have this technology of like, okay, this is going to be my insurance policy. And I have a lot of women who do that as an insurance policy and hopefully don't need it. And some don't and some do, and it just depends. So I don't remember where I was going with this. Sorry. I know. No, you're good. No, that happens to me sometimes too. where I was going with this. Sorry. I know. No, you're good.

No, that happens to me sometimes too. When I was following it, well, actually, okay, so this is a great segue into because I wanted to talk about egg freezing and IVF a little bit. And I want to be sensitive to this topic because I know a lot of women are going through this right now. So I froze my eggs when I was 36. So three years ago, I will be very honest and upfront. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. My biggest concern with IVF and egg freezing is the hormones. And I know, or at least from my lens, I think

right now it's still only anecdotally. I don't know if we actually have research behind this, but I do know that there's talk and concern about cancer from being exposed to these hormones, especially like a lot of times. That was my biggest concern was that and also just really not wanting to mess with my body and my hormones. I'm the type of person,

I've never been consistent on birth control my entire life. I've tried it two separate times between like a four year period. Both times I couldn't even finish the pack because it made me feel so I was like crawling out of my body and I could not handle it. And so when the thought of doing egg freezing came up, I was really concerned because I didn't want to take the birth control, which I actually found a doctor that was like, you don't need to take the birth control, just do the injections. But I was still concerned about the injections as well.

From a health standpoint, I'm concerned about what those are doing to our body. And we don't have to go super into them, but I want to name it because it is a concern I have. Yeah. I mean, we're stimulating high levels of hormones to get a large number of follicles to get the most eggs. I think there are a lot of studies that are showing that there is a good amount of safety long-term. And there's definitely some cases that show that there could be more concern. And again, maybe it depends on how well you detox your estrogens. Maybe it depends on, you know, there's a lot of factors to consider. Very bio

individual, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've seen people who've done seven rounds and seem to be fine. Biomarkers are fine. They feel fine. And then I've seen people who've done one round and feel like they're going to lose their damn mind. And so, you know, as far as cancer risk, neither of those really tell us much. But I think as we're, and we also, I don't know if we have necessarily the best, like, early cancer detection just yet. Cronuvo, I think, is really going to be the next thing. The full body scan. Yeah, but by the time it's already, like, you can see it. That's true, but they're catching a lot of stage ones that normally they don't even catch those cancers until they're in stage four, which is pretty incredible.

I've also been looking at the gallery test. Are you familiar with that one? So I'm not a cancer doc, but I have friends in the cancer space. So, you know, there's a little bit I've and I have patients who ask me stuff, of course. So, yeah. But I think, I think part of it is trusting yourself and feeling into like, what is this cost benefit ratio for myself right now? For sure. You know, is the insurance policy worth going through maybe a rough month and spending a couple of months detoxing and supporting myself afterwards? For a lot of women, yes. Yeah. Because then they feel like after that they can relax and enjoy

life and enjoy their career and all of that, which me coming back four years younger was what told me, okay, I can go on a date and I'm not thinking, is this my baby daddy? Is this my baby daddy? You know, so... The relaxing in that is a really important piece. Because also the men can feel it and they're like, dear God. Yeah, it makes it harder. Well, this is why I love so much what you're doing because it's helping everyone, right? Like it's helping the women that are struggling regardless whether they're doing IVF or not. And then it's also helping if you don't want to go through IVF and you don't want to do like freeze your eggs.

I wish that I had found your company back then because, full disclosure, I've never shared this publicly and I was really distraught and confused. I went in a little too confident doing my egg freezing. I was like, oh, I'm good. I'm so healthy. I do all the right things. And I didn't do enough prep looking at – I just didn't do enough prep ahead of time. And I only got six eggs and I came back and I was like, what? And I have a girlfriend who I hope she's, I love her to death is not as healthy and not as on it, which is totally fine. No judgment got 15 eggs. So I was like, Oh, I'm like golden, you know? And then I come back and

I get six eggs and I was like, what the heck happened there? I don't want to do it again. I really don't want to put my body through another round of that. So I'm just like praying like, okay, I have an insurance, but now I'm really trying to focus on all this, which is what your company is doing, which I'm so excited about. But it's really cool because you, you're helping everyone, regardless of if they're going through IVF, if they're struggling and they're looking for answers and they don't want to go down that route, like all of this is supporting women on their path to do it however way they need to do it. Yeah. And ideally starting five years before you want to have babies so that you do get that biological age young enough and keep it there so that you don't, you're not struggling so that it does happen easily. And that might not be possible for everyone. There

are things that we can't just fix. I mean, I believe in miracles. I've seen miracles. But there are always potentially cases that are a little bit beyond some of the foundational things that we talk about. But I have hope for everybody. And the earlier you start, the more prepared you can be. And I think the smoother the path potentially. The other thing that I want to mention that I've seen a lot is that when I see women struggle, whether it's conception or egg freezing or whatever, the healing journey that you need to go on before becoming a mother is the journey to make you become the mother you need to be. And so I think it's a really beautiful opportunity when there

are struggles to decide how you're going to show up for yourself. Are you going to be a victim or are you going to be empowered in trust, in faith, in problem solving, in, you know, whatever needs to happen? And so I think it's actually a beautiful opportunity, one, to start as early as possible, but even not just from the like, oh, I don't want to struggle. I don't want to have a hard time. But even taking a step back and being like, I'm going to trust whatever this journey needs to be for me because I know that it's going to make me the mother that I'm meant to be. I love that. And you can relax a

little bit in it knowing that there's a greater plan. Yeah. You know, Gabby Bernstein talks about this in one of her books where in the beginning she was really struggling to conceive and she wanted this baby to come in so bad. And then when she finally got pregnant, she was looking back on her timeline and she was like, oh, that would have been awful if I had my baby then. You know, she's like, things were crazy. I wasn't ready. Like, you know, she talks about it in more detail, but essentially the point was like, there's a greater plan for you and you may not be able to see it initially, but you'll be able to look back and go, wow, if I had this baby any sooner, like I wouldn't have been ready. Yeah. So there's a beautiful opportunity there to lean in to trust as well.

And like you said, help prepare you for it. A hundred percent. And there's a book that I love by Bettina Gordon called The Joy of Later Motherhood. And she's a reporter and it's all stories of women conceiving naturally in their mid forties. Cool. And it's things of like, you know, one woman struggled for years, ended up getting divorced, meets the love of her life. And like it happens, you know, super easily. Right. Another woman, I think had gone through cancer treatment and didn't think she'd be able to have kids and like just all of these kind of like more situational, I don't want to say situational, but like bigger plan things that when this baby was

meant to come in, even in their mid forties, it happened very easily. I love that. Okay. I wanted to ask you one more question, um, which kind of goes back to the egg freezing. I don't know a lot about embryo freezing. What are your thoughts on that? I think if I've seen some interesting stories, I think it's a great option if the couple, you know, knows they're going to be together. And, you know, I guess there's also other scenarios, but things that can, that I've seen go not so great in this space are when a couple makes embryos and then ends up getting divorced. Yeah. I've seen that a handful of times. And so then, you know, what do you do then? What happens to the embryos? And then what happens to your

fertility journey? Do you use the embryos? Do you not use the embryos? Do you try, do you make new embryos with somebody else? You know, so there's a lot of questions there. When you're doing the process, are you able to freeze some eggs and then also freeze some embryos or is it like a one or another kind of path? That's a great question for a reproductive endocrinologist. I believe you can do both depending on how many eggs you get. So I know for like different ages, different risk factors, the doc might recommend. I think most doctors right now are recommending embryos over just eggs if that's, you know, available. But I have known women who've done both.

I don't know if they've done it in the same cycle or if they did, you know, one set of embryos and then one set of eggs separately. Okay. Yeah. So fascinating. Well, I got through all of my questions. This has been amazing, but I want to ask you, is there anything else that we haven't covered that you think is really important for people to hear? Have hope. There's so much hope. The body was designed to do this. Your body was designed to do this. We are on the forefront of what's possible and trust yourself. That's it. Such great advice. And I really love, you've brought this up a couple of times, but I really want to reiterate this.

If you know that you want to be a mom, even if you're like 22, just start doing the little things to just make sure that you are on a path to really prioritize your health. Because not only is this going to preserve your fertility, but it's also, I mean, I look back, I'll share my own story. I'm so grateful that I got put on this path at a young age. I was like 20 when I started really getting into health and nutrition. And look, it's been a long journey and it's not been perfect and it's still not perfect, but I'm so grateful. My future self and my past self is so grateful that I started it when I was younger because now I'm at this place where I'm 39 and I'm not freaking out because I'm like,

oh, I've got it. I have all the tools in place. I've been doing a lot of things. And it just really gives you comfort. And not only that, but it's so amazing for your overall life, you know, for your vitality. Because fertility and your overall health is so connected that even if you don't want to have babies, I would also encourage you regardless. Like you want to be on this because it's going to only improve your life and make it better. 100%. regardless. Like you want to be on this because it's going to only improve your life and make it better. A hundred percent. And then also a reminder for those that are coming on this journey later, there's still so much hope. There's still so much hope. It doesn't mean that you can't turn this around. You're a perfect example. You know, you can do it. Yeah. Okay. So I want to ask you a question that I ask all of my guests and it's a personal one. Okay. I'm really curious to hear what your health non-negotiables are.

These are things that you do no matter how crazy busy you are to prioritize your own health. I would say I sit at my altar. Love that. And my altar is like a little fur rug. Because I moved from California recently. I'm currently in New Jersey. Moved in with my fiance. So, you know, I'm still figuring out my spaces.

But one of the first things I set up was my little fur rug. I literally stole a stool from the bathroom, like a squatty potty stool, threw a lace table cloth over it and put my mother Mary and a candle. And what else is I think that's just that's all it is right now. But like that was the thing that I'm like, this is the thing I think that's just, that's all it is right now. But like, that was the thing that I'm like, this is the thing I have to have that I, that I, I, and honestly, I don't sit every day, but I, it's the thing I do most consistently. And it's the thing that, that makes me feel the most grounded, the most connected, the most hopeful, the most happy,

the most, like I'm taking care of myself is to sit and just, and my altar changes. It's not always mother Mary, but right now it's mother Mary. Um, and to, to be in that like spiritual connected space and that quiet space with myself. I love that. No one's ever given an answer like that before. And I really like that. Thank you. Especially pertaining to everything we've been talking about. It's perfect. Well, uh, please let everyone know where they can find you and where they can find Clockwise. And also for everyone listening, this is going to be a journey that I'm bringing you along. So I'm actually going to do the Clockwise test and then I'm going to have Catherine come back on. And we're going to go over my results and we're going to talk about all the things that I potentially need to change and implement in order to really prioritize my fertility journey.

Awesome. Yeah. So we're at Clockwise Fertility, clockwise with a Z because I'm Dr. Z. And I'm at drzagony, both on Instagram and we're clockwise.com, again with a Z. And you can get your own fertility wise test or join us for, we've like tons of resources

and all sorts of fun stuff coming up. So, yeah. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme

song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.