Realfoodology - Rising Cancer Rates, Processing Grief, + Healing Your Relationship With Food | Kris Carr

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

EP. 210: I’m thrilled to share a truly special conversation with the incredible Kris Carr. It feels like a full-circle moment for me since I've followed her inspiring journey for over 13 years. Kris has been living with a challenging diagnosis for 21 years, and in this episode, she opens up about her health journey, how diet and lifestyle play a crucial role, and her empowering approach to becoming the CEO of her own health. We also explore her new book, I'm Not a Mourning Person, which deeply resonated with me given my own experiences with grief. Kris's vibrant energy and wisdom left me feeling incredibly inspired, and I know you'll find this episode just as moving and enlightening. Timestamps:  07:12 - Kris’s health journey  11:09 - Staying grounded with a cancer diagnosis  16:08 - Healing your relationship with food  20:41 - Becoming the CEO of your own health  29:12 - Getting to the root cause of your health issue  32:11 - Kris’s mission 34:22 - Anti inflammatory plant based diet  42:46 - Mindfulness and stress management  50:45 - The rise in cancer cases  55:27 - Processing grief  01:03:20 - Feeling your feelings  01:09:30 - Kris’s health non negotiables  Show Links:  Forks Over Knives Documentary  Fed Up Documentary  Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead Documentary  The Corporations Corrupting Our Health | Calley & Casey Means Pt. 1 Sponsored By: LMNT Get your free Sample Pack with any LMNT drink mix purchase at drinklmnt.com/realfoodology Cured Nutrition Go to www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology and use code REALFOODOLOGY for 20% off Organifi Go to www.organifi.com/realfoodology and use code REALFOODOLOGY for 20% Off Beekeeper's Naturals Go to beekeepersnaturals.com/REALFOODOLOGY or enter code REALFOODOLOGY to get 20% off your order.  Paleovalley Save at 15% at paleovalley.com/realfoodology and use code REALFOODOLOGY Needed Use code REALFOODOLOGY at thisisneeded.com for 20% off Check Out Kris:  Website Instagram I’m Not A Mourning Person Check Out Courtney:  LEAVE US A VOICE MESSAGE Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! @realfoodology @realfoodologypodcast  www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database  Produced By: Drake Peterson

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. We have to be the leader and put the right people in the room and make sure that they're talking and make sure that we have our medical records and not make assumptions that if I go from one doctor, well, of course they will have gotten the records from the last doctor. Rather, we have to be like, here are my records and also assume that they haven't even looked at them, even though you sent them ahead of time. And they didn't look at any of the forms, even though you filled them out twice and it took 30 minutes both times. And really hold the space in the room when you have it, because it's going to go by quickly. And in today's medical system, it's going to go by quicker

than you can possibly imagine, right? Because it's a factory in so many ways. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Courtney Swan, and today's guest is Chris Carr. I was so honored to have Chris on the podcast. I love that I have been able to bring some really monumental and amazing people onto this podcast from the very beginning stages of my own personal and wellness journey. I share this at the very beginning of the episode, but I found Chris Carr back in, I think it was around 2011. It was around the time that I was starting to get really into health and wellness. It was back when I decided to go back to school to get

my master's in nutrition. And I had found all these documentaries about health and wellness, one being Forks Over Knives. There was another one called Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead. There was another one that came out a couple of years after that called Fed Up. And if you haven't watched any of these documentaries, I highly recommend them. I know Forks Over Knives really leans more towards vegetarian vegan diets, but there's a lot of gems in there as far as overall wellbeing and the importance of eating real food. And not saying that you shouldn't or couldn't be vegetarian or vegan. I just am not aligned in that aspect of health and wellness anymore in my journey, but I'm not vehemently against it. I just personally, after being vegetarian for five years, realized that it didn't work for my body and I needed to

incorporate animal protein back in. But let's get back into Chris Carr and the episode. I just thought that it was a really amazing full circle moment for me because I had found her work so, so long ago. I mean, I think it's been like live with that diagnosis and really how this has impacted our overall health and how diet and lifestyle really plays a role. We talk about becoming the CEO of your own health and her approach to this diagnosis and it goes well beyond just diet and lifestyle. It's also mindset and habits and a personal relationship with self. And then we also talk about her new book, which is called I'm Not a Mourning Person. I really resonated with this as somebody who personally has dealt with a lot of grief in my life. And I loved this conversation. It was so beautiful. She has such a vibrant and beautiful and sweet energy about her that I really loved.

And I think you guys are going to really love this episode. It was incredibly inspiring. I left the episode just feeling really tender and inspired. So I hope you guys love the episode. If you could take a moment to rate and review, it means so much to me. You can also leave comments now on Spotify podcast if you want to do that. And then also I have a new Instagram for the Real Foodology podcast.

It's at realfoodologypodcast. So if you guys want to go and follow there, we're posting a lot of clips that you can't find anywhere else. So thanks so much for listening. Appreciate you guys. I'm thrilled to share a game-changing hydration solution that aligns perfectly with our focus on optimal health. We all know the importance of staying hydrated,

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thank you. I was reflecting last night when I was preparing for this and I was trying to remember where I first found you because I remember it was around the time of Forks Over Knives, Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead, that documentary. And I know you had a documentary as well, but I was trying to remember if I had seen you maybe in one of those documentaries at that time. Anyways, I found your work around then. I think it was around 2011.

And I have just been in so, so much awe of your journey. And the fact that you, the way that you show up and you're so vibrant and so healthy. And when my listeners hear about your health journey and what you've been going through, I think a lot of people will be really shocked. And I'm just truly in awe of, yeah, just how you've, how you've really managed this journey that I think many people would, would crumble under. So first of all, thank you so much for coming on. And if the listeners are not aware of you and your work and your health journey, could you take us back to where your health

journey really started? Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me, Courtney. It's a great honor to be here with you. Like many of us, I came to the world of wellness because I was sick and I had no intention of educating myself about health and wellness and becoming the advocate that I am and being in this industry for 20 years now. It just wasn't the path that I was on. I had a different career and a different life and I thought a very different future. And then in 2003 on Valentine's Day, I was diagnosed with a rare and incurable stage four cancer. And that really was the moment where everything changed. And because, so just before I keep going, I've been living with stage four cancer for 21 years now, and I have a slow growing

sarcoma. And sometimes my sarcoma in inpatients, it presents as more aggressive. And other times it can be slow-growing. And it can also change. So I haven't done treatment. I've had this slow-growing variety for two decades now. And I get checked every five years or so now, which is a big graduation milestone because it was every two months in the beginning, then six months. You know, this is 2003. So figuring out what the heck is this because it affects so few of us.

And the thing with rare cancers is there isn't a lot known. You can't go to your local cancer hospital often and or even hospital rather not like we all have local cancer hospitals but there's very little known about it and there oftentimes isn't a lot of funding for it because it affects so few people right so back in 2003 i had no idea what i was dealing with and the first doctor suggested a triple triple organ transplant The next one gave me 10 years to live. And it was really that moment where I said, I've got to become the CEO of my health. I have to learn about well-being. I have to figure out how to build a team and kind of figure out how to survive this.

And that was the moment that life took on a different journey, purpose, meaning, which brought me to where I am today. I've written many books and I have a wonderful online community. or so fully committed to not only my wellbeing, but educating other people and the path that you and I are both on. Yeah. I mean, the grace that you have while on this path, and I'm sure there's so much that people don't see behind the scenes, right? But the way that you show up in the world is, it really truly is pretty incredible,

especially just hearing you say that out loud, that you've been living with stage four cancer for 21 years. I mean, I want to know. So I can only imagine that living with this has been really hard too, you know. So how have you stayed grounded in all of this, having that diagnosis and still allowing yourself to live your life and thrive? Such a wonderful question and one that I continue to answer in different ways, year after year, because if you had asked me that question, maybe even within the first 10 years of my journey, my answer would be very focused on my diet.

And it still is. But I think that back then, or for quite some time, I felt so out of control. And the place that we can immediately go to when we need control is that I can control what I put in my mouth, what I put on my skin. And I found so much and continue to find a lot of inspiration there. But that's how I stayed grounded by cooking and taking care of myself and learning what to eat, what not to eat, what to buy, what not to buy. You know, it can be a full-time job at first. And in some ways it's refreshing because it keeps you busy and focused on positive things as opposed to all of the fear and anxiety that's just under the surface. And so I think my diet was the door into then mindfulness.

Right, so choosing a plant-based diet, obviously when you start to connect the dots, immediate in the beginning, you should just start dealing with detoxing symptoms and feeling like crap because I went straight from the standard American diet into, you know, I'm vegan now and I'm not just vegan, I'm like macrobiotic and then raw vegan and like very intense dietary practices. So, you know, once I got a little further out of feeling like crap, but then starting to feel really great and having more energy and more

vitality and better immunity, which felt so strange to me, especially as somebody living with stage four cancer. I'm like, how do I feel better than I ever have felt before? This is bizarre, you know, and how can I help other people feel this way? Because this is awesome. Yeah. But then, you know, again, like I said, it opens the door to mindfulness and connecting the dots and understanding that our health is interconnected with the planet and all the beings around us. But also from, I think, a holistic standpoint, it's not just what we're eating, but it's also about addressing what's eating us. And so to answer your question now, I have a very, I think, healthy relationship with myself

and I have some tools to help soothe my nervous system and to keep me grounded and in the present. And when I find myself spiraling out, like what if, or that a weird cough or you know this is a weird bump or you know I've gone having some different health challenges now but it's easy to go to that place of like up this is the moment where everything's changed and my cancer has become aggressive just being able to grab ourselves out of that place of rumination or fear-based thinking and being like, well, that may or may not be true, but right now in this moment, I'm talking to my friend Courtney, you know, let's take it one step at a time and not get over our skis. Like for me, I always say,

don't get over your skis, you know, right here, right here in this moment right now, you got this. Yeah. And it's such a great reminder, right? Like I'm, I struggle a lot with anxiety. And one of the things that I tend to do a lot is future trip where I'm so concerned about, well, what about this? And if this happens or, you know, I'm so concerned about tomorrow and the next day and not getting ahead of your skis. I love that so much. Or however you just said that, like not get over your skis is, um, it's such a good reminder. And I love how you brought this up. So I had a similar story, not in the cancer, but just when I really started to get into health and wellness, I was so focused on diet for a really long time. And diet plays a huge role. And I do want to talk about that. And I want to see, I'm very curious to hear your evolution

and maybe if anything has changed over the years and your approach to diet and lifestyle. But it's also really important. And I had to have this wake-up call where I was so obsessive with my food and my diet at one point that I was not going out to eat with friends and I wasn't enjoying my social life in that way. And it really helped me realize that it's not only diet,

but there's a whole other world outside of that, that all encompasses health and wellness that we need to be aware of. And I had been so focused on diet for so long that I didn't even realize like, oh, I need to work a little bit more on my relationship with myself. I need to work a little bit more on my anxiety and my mental health. And there's so many other components of health and wellness that are there outside of diet, even though diet does play a huge role. And especially for you, and I'm curious because I was going to ask you, when you first got this diagnosis, and you had kind of mentioned this already, that you were eating the sad

American diet, was this a really big diet wake-up call for you? Or had you kind of already been eating healthy? Or was this just like, whoa, I really need to completely rehaul, like completely redo my whole life and my diet? Oh, this is a total rehaul because I was in a very different business. So I had been in the entertainment business since I was quite young.

I moved to New York when I was 19 and got my first agent. And so to me, diet was what do you eat to stay slim and look good for your job? And a lot of the jobs that I was getting back then was as a dancer. And so the pressure is always on. And so I wasn't connecting the dots of like, this is what's healthy. It was more like, this is what's fat-free. This is what is, in retrospect, low calorie, filled with crap is not going to fuel me in any way, shape or form. But for whatever reason, the packaging makes me feel like I'm safe if I eat it. And so I also loved fast food. And I think when you're on, when, not for me, I speak for myself, when I, back in that, during that time of my life and in that career, I had a very disordered relationship with food. You know, sometimes it was okay, but other times

it wasn't. And so you would go, I would go from dieting to binging to there was a period where I was purging, this was in probably my late teens, early twenties. And of course, when I found myself in that place, other, let's say, I wouldn't say full-blown addictions, but when you're pushing things down in certain areas of your life, it comes out in other ways. And so I was drinking heavily, I was smoking. The reason why I give you the whole story is because I didn't come to this saying, oh, I grew up on an organic farm. I didn't, you know, I had no idea the connection between food and health. And so it was a really big change for me. But like I said earlier, when I started to

change my diet and feel better, there was this compounding effect of motivation and inspiration and continuity in my life that I had never experienced before, like real energy, really feeling good in my skin and in my body, starting to heal my relationship to food and my relationship to my body. And all of that was like, yes, this is the direction I need to go in. So much so that it was very clear that I was going to be making a big career change. And I had only ever seen a future where I would be performing, but I was like, no, I need a complete reset. This profession, this career isn't healthy for me. The choices that I've been making haven't been healthy for me. And now I'm dealing with stage four cancer. And if there's any time to make a change and choose me, it's now.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm so glad that you shared that because I think it's really relatable. I think most people grew up eating that way. You know, I think it was pretty rare that somebody grew up on a farm or grew up eating, you know, super healthy organic food. I'm actually in the outlier. I had a little bit of processed foods here and there, but I grew up at the time, had no idea how good I had it. And now I obviously know, but my mom was cooking almost every meal from scratch and doing everything organic, super healthy. And, you know, as a kid, you don't know the difference, right? Like I didn't know how good I had it. And then I grew up and was like, wait, nobody else or not nobody, but a lot of people didn't grow up with this. And my point is that it's

incredibly relatable because I think a lot of people, of course, we grow up eating what our parents feed us. And unfortunately in America, a lot of parents are feeding their kids these ultra processed foods, a lot of stuff out of boxes, a lot of fast food. And it really, for the majority of us, it takes some sort of wake-up call, whether it's an autoimmune disorder, whether it's a cancer diagnosis, whatever that is. And you said this so beautifully, and I've heard you say this a couple times, that you had to become the CEO of your own health. And this is something that I talk about so much on this podcast, is the importance of taking your health in your own hands. Because unfortunately, nobody else is going to do that for you.

We live in a world where it's cheaper and more accessible to get hyper-processed foods than it is to get whole real food. So we really have to become the CEO of our own health. Now, can you take us through how you did that? Because I know I hear a lot of people, I'll get messages from people and they'll just say, I don't even know where to start. I'm so overwhelmed. I've been eating this really crappy diet most of my life because it's what my parents fed me and I don't really know where to start. So how did you start that process? Yeah. Well, the first thing is for me, because I had an actual diagnosis, becoming the CEO meant I had to find a doctor who knew the most about my disease, who hopefully had his

finger or her finger on the pulse of research and would be the head of my care unit, let's just say. And so that took me a while to find that person because I realized that even though these people were smart, they didn't know the kinds of things I needed them to know for this very rare sarcoma. So I had to keep looking. And I think that there's so much importance to that because even if you're not coming to health and wellness because you're sick or you have had what I call a warning sign or a wake-up call, it's really important to have your go-to, your doctor, your GP, somebody who actually hopefully can be a part of your life over time, who understands your medical history, who you have as a point person where like you get a yearly test, you get your blood work done,

you check under the hood and make sure that you are, even if you're feeling great, that you're getting those tests done. Because it's so true that early detection in so many areas truly does save lives. It's not just a slogan or marketing campaign. But I think that even starting with blood work and saying, okay, let's see how my labs look. Let me check out my cholesterol. It starts to give you a guidepost. Your symptoms are basically your body saying, there's a problem here. You know, I just want to point this out. And so of course, sometimes I think medications, surgeries, these things are necessary,

but getting to the underlying cause is truly how we heal. And we can start there, start with the simple blood work and simple panels to understand what's going on. But oftentimes we have to go further. And that's what becoming that CEO and truly an empowered patient looks like. Because even some of the best medical care, especially conventional medical care, we're still going to look at our body in isolation as opposed to in connection, right? Okay. So let's say this hormone is off. Let's say I'm not creating enough progesterone right now, which is what's happening in my body. Well, my gynecologist may say, okay, well, let's just supplement with progesterone. Right. That might be something that's helpful to reset things. However, what other cascade

effects are happening in our body, my body? What other hormones are maybe struggling? What's going on with my cortisol and is it elevated consistently and chronically? Let me check in on my insulin, right? And so that's when we start to become that wellness detective. And oftentimes we have to be the leader and put the right people in the room and make sure that they're talking and make sure that we have our medical records and not make assumptions that if I go from one doctor, well, of course, they will have gotten the records from the last doctor. Rather, we have to be like, here are my records and also assume that they haven't even looked at them, even though you sent them ahead of time. And they didn't look at any of the forms, even though you filled them out twice and it took

30 minutes both times. And really hold the space in the room when you have it because it's going to go by quickly. And in today's medical system, it's going to go by quicker than you can possibly imagine, right? Because it's a factory in so many ways. And so I'm always trying to encourage us as people to understand that they work for us. We can be in co-relationship, but ultimately you're the boss. And as the boss, you have to lead. You ever feel like you're just swimming in a sea of toxins from air pollution to processed foods? Our bodies are constantly being bombarded, so you're not alone. That's where Organifi's Green Juice steps in. In today's world, stress, toxins, and daily pressures can wreak havoc on our well-being. But with Organifi's

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kind of things. And also, like you said, that time goes by really fast. And a lot of people, I think everybody listening knows what it feels like to go see a doctor. And it's like, they're like, okay, weigh you. When was your last period? Like, what's your symptom? Okay, here's a pill. And it's like, I mean, it's like 10 minutes and you're out. And you're like, okay, wait, what just happened? Like, I don't even get to tell them everything.

It's why I'm a huge proponent for, you know, integrative functional medicine. Because, I mean, I was just telling you, I had a doctor appointment yesterday. I just moved and I wanted to meet, I wanted to have a new local doctor. We sat down for an hour and a half and talked about everything. And I showed him, you know, I have these labs and I had this GI map and this was a little concerning to me. And that, you know, and you're right, like you really have to be empowered by it and take a little bit of time, learn, you know, do some Googling, learn maybe the different tests that you should do. Listen to podcasts. I think the podcasts really

help a lot. And just, yeah, encouraging people to become a CEO of their own health is incredibly important. And what you were saying too reminded me of, are you, do you know who Cali Means is? Okay. So he's really amazing. And he's been speaking a lot about, lately speaking out about the corruption of our food industry. And the reason I brought him up is it was a really good reminder to me of what you just said. I've heard him talk on podcasts about his mom, who unfortunately he lost to cancer, which is really heartbreaking. And his mom is really his why behind his whole mission right now. And I actually, and I want to ask you what your why is in a second too, because I think this is a really important part of everyone's journeys. But he, I heard him

talk about this on a podcast recently where he said that his mom's signs and symptoms for his cancer, it didn't happen overnight. He said she was diagnosed with gestational diabetes when she was pregnant with me. And then she had high cholesterol. So they put her on statin and then she had this. And so they put her on that. And then she, and I forgot, he listed out like five different things. And by the end of it, she was on five different medications. None of the doctors were talking, nobody was connecting the dots. And then all of a sudden she was diagnosed with cancer and it's really heartbreaking and it's a scary story. But the way he describes it is he was like, that started happening 20 years ago. And nobody was connecting the dots.

And nobody was sitting down with her and saying, okay, well, what's happening here? Why is your cholesterol going up? Why is your thyroid not working correctly or whatever it is? And so it's incredibly important that, one, we find doctors that are willing to answer those questions and help dive in deep with us to figure out the root cause. And also it's on us to make sure that we are the CEO of our own health. So I just, I love that that's your message. It's amazing. Okay. I wanted to ask you, so what is your why in this journey? Quite honestly, I think my why truly is about,

it's twofold. One is to make less patients. I would like less people to become patients. And then also to help patients become more empowered, right? And so becoming more empowered is everything that you and I are talking about. And you do not have to have perfect health to be well. And so that is not always the goal, right? I believe that health isn't the absence of disease, it's the presence of vitality, right? So my metric for success is not, I have a, I'm in remission or my doctor gave me a clean bill of health. That's just not my measure of success. My measure of success is my energy, my vitality, my joy, my relationship to my body. That's my measure of success. So I think that's really important because when I say becoming an empowered patient, the goal isn't to get it behind you in the rear view. And if you don't meet that goal, you've somehow failed. That is not the case in any way, shape or form. When we are empowered patients,

we just ultimately have more options, right? We have more options with our healthcare. We have more options to heal. We have more options with our relationship with ourselves and other people. It's just green lights. And then the other half is I would love there to be less patients because being a patient can sometimes be a pain in the ass. Let's just be real.

And much worse than that. And so when we understand that we have more power over the direction of our well-being than we previously thought, an entire world of opportunities open up to us as well. And so I'd say that those are my whys. I love that. That was so beautifully said. And then it's really inspiring. I'm curious to know, because this is a podcast where I talk a lot about health and diet and lifestyle, what is your approach and has it changed over the years since you got your diagnosis? Oh, absolutely.

So I'm plant-based. I teach the power of an anti-inflammatory plant-based diet, so not a processed plant-based diet, which is very easy to have. And sometimes it's really fun too, let's just be honest. So real foods. But what is really important to me is because I do have an incredible community and I run 21 day programs and I have an online membership and whatnot is the vast majority of my audience is not plant-based, fully plant-based. So that's not the goal. The goal is to eat more plants. The goal is to eat more whole foods, real foods, foods that aren't processed and to help people

to start to feel less intimidated and more inspired, to use your word, in the kitchen, right? Because oftentimes we want to make, we want to eat the comfort foods. We want to eat the foods that we grew up with without really understanding that those ingredients are not healthy for us. In fact, they're the opposite of health. They contribute to disease rather than contribute to wellbeing. But how can we upgrade some of those recipes or how can we change our relationship to the kitchen? Because quite honestly, I think many of us, we don't find a lot of inspiration there. It's a hassle. Like I remember when I first started this path and I was cooking nonstop and I was like, this sucks. I didn't need a chef when I

grew up. Like this stinks. I can very much relate to that. Yeah. Finding our way in the kitchen and, and also finding ways to do it that work with your lifestyle and work with your goals and your family and your traditions and what, you know, delights you, I think is also very important, but also what I've seen over time, especially in my community is as women who tend to be the people who are the ones cooking most of the meals for whatever reason, sometimes the kitchen can be an intimidating place. Like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm not going to step foot in there. Or I don't want to get it wrong because that's going

to make me feel really bad about myself. I never do anything right. So how the hell am I going to do that right too? So all the self-deprecating messages that go in the opposite direction of connection to self and self-worth, for whatever reason, the kitchen can be a place where those messages are really loud. And that's something that I was kind of surprised to see, although I saw it in myself in the beginning too, like this is an intimidating place. You know what I mean? And then just saying, hey, you know what? It isn't that intimidating. The only way you're going to learn is to get in there, make some messes, screw up, throw some shit out. Like it's going to be bad. It's going to learn is to get in there, make some messes, screw up, throw some shit out.

Like it's going to be bad. It's going to be great. You might actually stumble upon something amazing in your so-called mistake. But how can we start to befriend that space? Because it is like the heart of your healing. Oh, yeah. I love that. And I can very much relate. I mean, I remember when I started on this journey, same as you, I was like, what am I doing? And there were so many meals I threw out, so many things that I was like, oh, but then surprises. I was like, oh, wow, this is amazing. And then it becomes a staple, one of my recipes. And also too, we're so lucky that we live in a time where there really are a lot more healthier for you packaged foods. I'm not a proponent for eating a ton of packaged foods, but if it's really minimally processed, I tell people all the time, I'm like, you don't need to be making every single thing from scratch.

You don't have to be making your marinara sauce and all this stuff from scratch. Like, there are really amazing products that exist out there now that are really simple, made with olive oil, organic ingredients, come in glass, like, you know, and they're becoming more accessible too. You know, you can find them at like Target, Walmart, Trader Joe's and stuff. I remember, you know, back when I found you and when I started this journey, I mean, the access to this type of food really wasn't there like it is now. And I was, when I tell you, I was making everything from scratch. I mean, I was like in the kitchen for hours. Same. Like what? It was hard. And to your point, it has changed over time. So I'm still plant-based and I, but I shared all of that because my whole goal is to just help people eat more plants and more real food. But when I was newly diagnosed and I found this healing path,

I started with macrobiotics and I went to a certification program. I was in this year-long training program, not because I wanted to be a macrobiotic counselor, although that's what you would be at the end of this program, that I would travel to Philadelphia every month to do and the rest of the time I was doing it home. But because I wanted to learn how to take care of myself, and I felt as though I had to go in really deep because I was really sick, but I wouldn't eat anything that I didn't cook. So I would bring a stove with me. Like my poor husband, who was my boyfriend back then, you know, he was like, why don't we go away for a week? And I'd be

like, great. I'm bringing a portable stove. Do you know what I mean? That's amazing. It was crazy. I don't even know how he stuck around. Because I was terrified. I thought that if I did it wrong, I would get worse. Yeah. So it was all that stigma that can also come from diving headfirst into the world of wellness without a real compass and strong mentors and inner guidance. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think most of us have to go through a phase of that. There was a time where my worlds kind of collided, but I used to work in music and then I was on the road working as a nutritionist for a pop star. And then I started

doing what I'm doing now. And so there was that middle ground where I was packing a portable blender with me everywhere I was going. That makes sense. Same, same. I get that. I can relate. Yeah, so I was making smoothies in my hotel room, so I can very much relate to that. And then I had this kind of come-to-Jesus moment,

which I had briefly said earlier, where I was like, you know what, I can live in the world and still be healthy and control the things that I can control, meaning that I eat a lot of my meals at home. I make sure everything that I bring into my home is organic and healthy and minimally processed. But then when I'm out in the world, I can also enjoy myself and I can go out to dinner with my friends and not spiral out about it. And I didn't even have a health diagnosis that I was worried about. I had become so informed about how bad our food was that I was like, I don't want to put any of that food in my about. I had become so informed about how bad our food was that

I was like, I don't want to put any of that food in my body. So I can't even imagine coming from your place where you're like, I have to protect myself. And you know what? I think at that time, I talk about this a lot in therapy and other realms of my life, but we have those protectors for a reason. And at that time, that's probably what you really needed for your body to heal, you know? And so it's also honoring where you were in that time and also honoring that you're now, you're still here with us because of the amazing things and what you put yourself through and where you were really fighting for your health and you did all those things to take care of your health. So that's amazing that you did that. And now you can sit here today and say, I found a balance in all of this. Like I've found how to thrive and have vitality,

but also live a normal, amazing life. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's a journey for each of us. It truly is. And it changes over time. And I think when we get stuck and we're like, no, we have to stay the same. It's like, no, our bodies are changing. We're aging. Aging is a blessing we have if we have the opportunity to do it, do it as rebelliously as possible. But know that this is a practice that evolves. Yeah. I love that. So what other things have helped you throughout the years? We've talked a lot about diet. Do you have like a mindfulness practice? Do you have like a mindset or certain habits that have really helped you get through? Yeah. So I teach what I call the five pillars of wellness. And again, that's about an anti-inflammatory diet and lifestyle. And those pillars are about being mindful about what you're eating, what you're drinking,

what you're thinking, and how you're resting and renewing. And it's really the basis of lifestyle medicine. It's not something that I created, but it's very powerful for you, whether you're a patient or you hope not to become a patient. And those pillars rest on a foundation of stress management. So how we're relating to the stress in our lives, because what I don't know about you, I know for myself, but I also know from the research that all the kale in the world doesn't matter if you are just in a place of elevated stress and cortisol and all the stress hormones all the time

flooding your system, right? It's going to start to erode your body, erode your immunity, erode your gut health, erode your wellbeing, which opens the door to other chronic poop pickles that you do not want to have, right? So if you focus on one thing, it's like, okay, what's my relationship to stress? How do I react when I am overstressed? What are my go-to triggers and what are my go-to places where I will go to numb or to feel better? And start to just even have that awareness. So you can say, oh, well, I reach for sugar. Okay, great. If that's what you reach for when you're stressed out, it's not the sugar that's the problem. The sugar is the result. The problem is that there's something out of balance in your life. Or maybe, like many of us, you just might not know how to

self-soothe and regulate your nervous system in more beneficial and healthier ways. There's nothing bad about that. It's just, if you have that information now, then you can do better, right? Oh, okay. I want sugar right now. Well, what was the trigger? It was that phone call that I just had. It was super stressful. Okay, what's another way I could move that energy? Because truly it's energy, right? How can I move that energy and kind of rebalance? Well, I know I could just go do a 10 minute HIIT workout. Right?

Every single one of us, many of us have the apps, right? We might, we have the memberships. It's $9 a month or $19 a month. But like how many times do I actually forget that I even have that freaking membership? Great. Yep. I gotta get this energy out. Yeah.

And so how can I get it out in a different way as opposed to like, oh, I'm gonna hit that line. I'm gonna hit that walk. Snacks. Let's talk about snacks. Everyone loves snacks. And I feel like it's hard to find a good snack that actually fills you up and that you really crave and like to eat. I am obsessed with the grass fed beef sticks from paleo Valley. If you guys follow me on Instagram, you probably saw recently that I went, I literally went to this show downtown

and my girlfriends were making fun of me because when I met up with them, I literally had a paleo valley beef stick sticking out of my pocket. My friend goes, are you packing meat in there? I was, I always have a paleo valley stick with me either in my purse or I always shove a bunch, a bunch of them in my car and just leave them in there for emergencies, for snack emergencies. I'm always bringing them places on hikes, you name it. I always have them on me because they're such a great snack. It's a great source of protein. They taste really good. They come from 100% grass-fed beef and they're really high quality. It's only organic

spices in there. You're not going to find any other fillers. And you know what I love so much? Their beef comes from 100% grass-fed cows raised entirely on natural grass pastures by family farmers right here in the US. And they also are committed to supporting regenerative farms, which is really important. If you guys are not into beef, if beef is not really your thing, they also have pasture raised turkey sticks, and they also have pasture raised pork sticks. So they have a variety of different flavors and all different kinds of meats to serve your meat desires. And if you guys go to paleovalley.com slash realfoodology, you're going to save 20%. Make sure you go to paleovalley.com slash realfoodology. You're going to save some money.

Also check out everything else they have on that website. They have superfood bars. They have organic super greens. They also have bone broth protein. They have grass fed whey protein. They have essential electrolytes. They also have a superfood. They have grass-fed whey protein. They have essential electrolytes. They also have a superfood, golden milk, which is going to be really good going into fall. So make sure you guys check it out. Use the code REALFOODOLOGY, and you're going to save some money. 2024 is the year of fertility for me.

I'm just naming that right now. While I am not actively trying to get pregnant, this is not an announcement for that, I do know that it can take a couple years to get your body ready and fertile for pregnancy. And I do know that I very much desire to have kids. And I also know that pregnancy and postpartum are some of the most nutritionally demanding times

in a woman's life. And a mom and her baby's health now and for years to come is influenced by her nutrient status. Also, a woman's fertility is also influenced by her nutrient status. So I am really taking this year to focus on all the things that I can do in order to set up my fertility for hopefully the best outcome that I can have. Most prenatal vitamins include bare minimum nutrition based on outdated guidance and stale research. And we deserve to thrive, not just survive.

This is why I really love this company, Needed. They offer radically better nutrition products, education and advocacy rooted in clinical research and practitioner validation. I know that there are so many women's health and prenatal supplements out there, and it can be really hard to know it's truly the best option. And I get asked often what prenatal I recommend. I really like the brand Needed. It's recommended and used by more than 4,000 women's health experts from nutritionists to midwives, functional medicine doctors, and OBGYNs. I even have girlfriends in my own life that have used it pre and during pregnancy as well. And this is because Needed offers products that are formulated by experts in women's health and are backed by clinical insights from their collective of over 4,000 practitioners. Their products offer the forms of nutrients your body

can actually use, dosed at optimal versus bare minimum levels. They also go above and beyond with third-party tests, testing every batch to ensure the safest product. Needed offers radically better nutrition for women from conception to pregnancy to new motherhood and beyond. If you would like to try any of their products today, head over to thisisneeded.com and use code realfoodology for 20% off your first month of Needed products. Again, that is thisisneeded.com and use code realfoodology for 20% off. It's all about being mindful and really starting to take notice. I mean, what you just said, you know, having a hard phone call or having maybe a hard conversation with your partner or whatever it is, and then noticing afterwards that you're grabbing the cookies or doing some other habit that you maybe don't love.

And it's all about clocking that and really starting to learn. And it's a practice. I mean, I feel like I'm still learning how to do this in some areas of my life where like I'm starting to notice some patterns where I'm like, oh, okay, I'm reaching for that cookie now that I just had a fight with my boyfriend or whatever it is. So it's about clocking that. And I think it's, yeah, that's really helpful. So I'm curious because I know we're hearing more about cancer on the rise and a lot of people are really scared about this, obviously. And people probably already have somebody in their life or maybe themselves, maybe somebody listening right now just got a really scary diagnosis. What would be your advice to someone who's struggling with that right now? With a new diagnosis or a fear of a diagnosis?

Both. Both. Yeah. I think the first thing is what we're talking about, which is mental management. Because sometimes the fear of a disease can actually be more detrimental to your well-being because it keeps you in this constant state of fight or flight, which then there's a chain reaction. But that's also just not a joyful place to be. It's not you living life fully. It's you living life in fear.

And so I always feel like, well, let's find out. Let's look under the hood. If you have a suspicion of something, if you think about it, it's so much easier to just like deal with it than run from it because you're never going to get far. You know, it's always right there, always reminding you, always raining on your parade, always popping up when you least expect it. And that's no way to live. That's literally purgatory. And so getting yourself to the doctor and saying like, I've had this bump, I have this lump, I have this feeling, it's been off. I really want to get this checked out. And then most of the time, quite often, it's like, oh my God, it was a whole lot of nothing. I'm so glad that I just faced it.

Because you don't even realize the weight that's on your chest when you have that. I always say it's nothing until it's something too, right? Because I think if we live in that constant state of fight or flight, again, our life shrinks. So even when my five-year checkup is approaching and I start to go into those places of like, what if this is the time, this is going to be it. Oh my God, how long can you be lucky? You know, all of the things. I'd be like, you know what? It's nothing till it's something. Right now you're fine. You're here. It's what we were talking about earlier. So it's kind of that mental management of staying present, but also staying very responsible. And then let's say you've just gotten a diagnosis. It's terrifying. This is true. And so these are the moments when the very first thing that I suggest people do is just

take a breath, take a beat. This is a trauma. This is going to be something that you're going to unpack for years. You know, hopefully you will still be with us, right? And hopefully you'll be on the other side of something. And a very good chance that that will happen. Or like me, you'll be living a vibrant life with whatever that thing is. But the moment of a diagnosis is a trauma.

And as a result of that trauma, there's a lot of tender work that's going to be necessary. And that's something that happens over time. We don't take a pill to instantly fix trauma, right? And so taking that beat, being as tender and good to yourself as possible as you're putting together the path, the next steps. And oftentimes people are going to rush you, right? Because there's a lot of, there's a need for control. And depending on how aggressive, whatever the situation is, sometimes it is necessary to move quickly. But other times it's like, take a beat, sleep on it,

gather the information, but also gather your crew of people, meaning not just your medical professionals, but that friend that's going to go with you to the doctor's appointment, or that partner, if you have one, that can go with you and take notes. Because when we're in trauma, we don't necessarily hear what's being said. It's like Charlie Brown.

Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. Like I remember hearing something very different than what my doctor was saying. And it was good news. And yet I walked away with bad news and dread. And thank goodness I had two family members in the room who were like, were you in the same appointment as we were, you're okay. This is good. Oh, that was so helpful. And I hope that that helps people listening. So I want to take a little bit of a turn because I know that you recently wrote a new book called I'm Not a Morning Person. I love the title, by the way. Thank you. It's so good. I also love that you wrote a book about this. I have talked a lot about this on the podcast and this was another motivating reason outside of everything we just talked about that

I wanted to bring you on because I have a very, very personal journey with grief. I'm going to try not to cry because I lost my little sister when I was eight and I've had a really hard journey with grief most of my life. And I just love that you wrote this book because it's really helpful for a lot of people. And I wanted to ask you what your inspo was behind writing that book. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm really sorry for your loss. And I'm so happy that you're doing this work because so many of us have that trauma that we hold in our bodies and we hold in our lives. And in some ways, they can control us.

It can control us rather. And more of us talking about what's going on is, I think, the path to all of us becoming more liberated. For me, it was the death of my dad. So I was adopted. He was my chosen father and he passed away of pancreatic cancer. And so it was also during right around the height of the pandemic and life was changing in such big ways for all of us. So many of us were going through loss, former sense of self, jobs, identity, safety in the world. We were living through such a crazy time and we're losing people on top of that. And it had been a while since I had written a book. And my previous books are Crazy Sexy Cancer Tips for Cancer Patients, Survivor, Crazy Sexy Diet. These are all the crazy sexy books,

right? Which was the plant-based diet, New York Times bestseller, Kitchen. So everything was about... In the beginning, I wrote for cancer patients. Then I wrote diet books. And I was joking with my publisher. I'm like, look, I write about hard things, cancer and vegetables. These are hard things. For some people, vegetables are very hard. Very true. So they're like, how about something light, bright, aspirational, inspirational? And I was like, how about grief? They're like, oh God, you know, please, come on, make this an easy sell for once. But I couldn't write about anything else because that's where I was. And what I realized was it was the one emotion that I did not want to touch.

So if we think of our emotions as information and that information is really vital to our wellbeing because it shows us what needs tending and befriending, right? It was like, give me anything, give me rage, give me shame, give me guilt. Delicious. Okay. Not, not, I don't really want it, but no problem. I got that. Give me grief. No fricking way. I'm running out the door. And so it was a hole in my, I think, personal development because I didn't realize how much grief I was holding. And I had this fear that if I touched that one place that I would drown, it would just be so big. It would pull me out to sea. And of course that was not true. That's exactly where I needed to go to find a new layer of me, new growth opportunities.

I needed to learn how to welcome that part of me home. You know, I think that like even with cancer in the early days, it's like I wanted to cut it out. I wanted, and I have 24 tumors in my body and it's inoperable. So there's nothing you can cut out, but I wanted it out. And I thought if it wasn't out, I have 24 tumors in my body and it's inoperable. So there's nothing you can cut out, but I wanted it out. And I thought if it wasn't out, I couldn't be whole and happy and move on with my life and have a good life. So it had to be out and behind me. And because that couldn't happen, I had to make peace with it and find another way and say, okay, well, maybe this is a part of me that's struggling. What happens if I actually could love my tumors and love all parts of me, even the parts that are struggling or the parts

that are behaving differently? And I might not like those parts, but it's part of me. And so, but it's the same thing with our emotions. And for me, the same thing with grief. It's like, we can't amputate any of our emotions and expect to be whole. And I believe the wholeness is the goal. Because wholeness is where the freedom is. Wholeness is where the contentment is. Wholeness is where the peace is. And those to me are true emotions of success, right? So if we talked about the why, those two answers are definitely my why but this is my fire um which is how in every way and every day can you become more at peace with yourself and you're gonna have setbacks comebacks there's gonna be days where you know you're you're a hot mess get ready this is life but if you look at the overall direction, are you overall moving more towards

peace, contentment, happy being me? If you can say yes to that, then you have done a lot of work and you are on the path. If there's no better place to shine love on than, than pain and grief and sadness, because those places are the ones that are often the most neglected because we live in a grief phobic society. You know, we'll talk about anything, death taxes, you know, I don't know, STDs we'll talk about hard shit, but we do not want to talk about grief. And we have to change that because it's holding us back. So that's what this book

is about. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I can't speak for any of the listeners, but what you just said resonates with me so much. This happened when I was eight years old, when I lost my sister. I'm 39 now, to give you context. And during 2020, I was forced to sit with that grief because I had spent my whole life running from it. And it was the first time in my life where I wasn't surrounded by people all the time. I wasn't go, go, go, appointments, work, this, that. And I realized then that I had spent upwards of 30 years running from that grief. And when I finally, there was one night in particular where I really just went for it and I let myself just fully feel it. And I have, it's crazy to say this. I don't remember exactly how old I was. I think I was like 34, 35 at this point, maybe 36, somewhere around there. And I, after I cried,

I cried it out so intensely. And after that moment, I sat back with myself and I realized I have never cried that hard since my sister died. And that was like 30 years later, which is really crazy to say. And in that moment, I felt this weight, this physical weight on my chest, leave my body. And I realized in that moment that I was really holding my back and holding myself back in many areas of my life. And so what you were just saying about how we can't expect to not feel all these feelings and not have a repercussion for that, you know? And I was holding myself back in so many ways. And then also talking about how we're so scared to

talk about grief. I mean, my family and I, I mean, still to this day, we dance around it, you know, because it's so painful and it's so hard. And so my question for you about this journey that you went on is, how did you finally allow yourself to feel it? And how did you get to that place where you're like, oh, I'm holding onto a lot of this grief and I'm scared and I don't want to feel it. But how did you finally allow yourself to feel it? Therapy. Going back to therapy was a big part of it, but also because it felt like my world was falling apart again. And the only way I've ever been able to survive that is through creativity. And so I started writing,

even though it wasn't going to become a book, I was just like tapping into who are you? What's happening? What's going on? What do you need? Doing a lot of that work in my journal, which ultimately guided me to where I needed to go. But much like you, I had that inciting incident. It was in a CVS parking lot

because I was, I talk about this in the introduction of my book, actually, because my mom had asked me to go to CVS to get insure. It was the only thing my dad could handle. You know, I did all the research for the healthy insurer, and it just created so much pain and discomfort in his gut and body at that point. And, you know, he couldn't handle anything else. I was like, I know what flavor you like, and I'm going to go get it. And I'm picking it up, and I'm wondering how many bottles to buy. Like, how long is he going to be here? And it was just this wave of emotion that came.

And I just ran to the car. I didn't want anybody to see me. I was filled with anxiety and shame and all this stuff. And then I got to the car. I just, the same. I mean, it was probably around the same time, actually. I wish we had known each other. Me too. Yeah. And that's important because we need our people. You know, it's hard to go through these things alone. And even if it's one or two true blues and somebody

who could be your counsel during that time, I think it's really important because when we're in pain, we also tend to isolate. And that isolation is not good for our well-being. And so I had that big, big cry like you did. And I remember feeling so much better afterwards. It's like I wrote about it, that it's like a break in the fever. Like when the fever is so bad, you're hallucinating, but then it breaks and you just feel like, oh, I just feel so much better. And I realized I, you know, it takes so much energy to fight. It takes so much energy to hold it back. It takes so much energy to hold it up. So much energy that could go in a much better direction, in the direction of healing. And it was that moment that I just saw that energetic waste.

And I said, what other areas of my life am I pushing, holding, fighting against that is actually creating more suffering for me? And that was the beginning of the journey. You know, it was just a little bit, little bites, little steps, and I'm still on it. Because I think the thing that we realize more and more when we become more willing to embrace the parts of ourselves that are struggling is, especially with grief, is grief is love. We don't have grief if

we didn't have an enormous amount of love. And being willing to feel those feelings and sit with grief is actually really truly sitting with love. And I have a continued relationship with my dad because I'm willing to be with my grief. And so it's easier to include him in conversation. It's easier to include him at the Thanksgiving dinner table as opposed to pretend he never existed and Thanksgiving is just fine because nobody wants to cry. That's a hideous Thanksgiving. Yes. You know, it's hard. It's like, how do you get out of that room as quickly as possible? Or drink so much so that you can actually handle that room. As opposed to being like, hey, you know what?

And this is actually welcome at this table too. A picture of my dad on the table. And we may cry, but we also may laugh and tell a funny story. And then the energy is moving. It's also how you keep them alive. Yes. Keep them alive, thriving, somebody that I still connect with just in different form. So that love is never gone. It's just changed. Yeah. This has changed. Oh, I mean, I have to say you've kind of left me

speechless just because I'm like, I'm sitting over here just processing so much with my own stuff. And I'm just so grateful for that. So really, truly, this is such an amazing book. And I think it's going to help so many people and some people listening and probably already has, which is a wonderful thing. Just in the essence of time, is there anything that you want to leave the listener with today? Oh, we've done so much and I want to thank you for having me. I would say just pick one area or one nugget from this time that we've had together and put a little energy in that direction. Whatever that is for you, whether it's like, oh, I'm going to work on my stress or, yeah, you know, maybe I'll make a smoothie because that's easy and I don't have to be intimidated in the kitchen. I just put it in the blender and go. And that that book or, you know, I've done a million interviews. So if it's not that you want to buy a whole grief book, but there's a lot of good stuff in there because

it's not just about grief. There's other big emotions that come along too that can sideswipe you and surprise you when you find yourself in a place where life has truly kicked you in the teeth and then say maybe to yourself, this is scary, but I'm brave. So I'm going to dip my toe in. I love that so much. I want to ask you a personal question that I ask all my guests at the end, which is what are your health non-negotiables? So these are things that no matter how crazy your day is, your week is that you really prioritize for your own health. I'm going to just leave you with one because again again, I try to do the things that we all talk about. I try to get my Zs.

You know, I don't put on another show past 930, even though I really, you know, it's Netflix getcha. It's like it just starts the show and you could be like, oh, I couldn't grab the remote on time. I guess we have to watch it. Well, we're doing another one. Oopsie. Right. So I definitely am sticking with the pillars as much as I can. But I'd say my one non-negotiable is very, very simple. It costs nothing and everybody can do it if they're drawn to it, which is starting each day with my hands on my heart and I'm waking up. And the first thing I say is, thank you. Thank you for another day.

And oftentimes I'm not thanking a higher power. I'm thanking my body. I'm thanking my body because our bodies do so many things that we don't even have to think about. And just to start that day with appreciation for my body really sets me up for success and staying connected to my body. Because I might be like, oh, it would be fun to eat that really gross thing. That sounds like fun. I'm like, oh, body says no. That connection to my body is like, yeah, but you know how you're going to feel afterwards. Oh, that's true. So thank you. What a way to start your day. I'm going to start copying. I'm going to copy you and start doing that every morning.

Because that is really, it's a way to bring you back in your body and in mindfulness. And then also just practicing gratitude and practicing gratitude changes everything. It literally changes the neural pathways in our brain. That's really, yeah, that's incredible. All right, please tell everybody where they can find you and also where they can find your new book or all of your books. Yeah, so books are anywhere books are sold. Amazon is obviously easy for everybody. And I am at chriscarr.com and on Instagram, I am at crazy sexy Chris. Amazing. Chris, thank you so much. This was amazing. Thank you.

Thanks, Courtney. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology Podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you liked this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider

patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.