Realfoodology - Take Back Your Power with Abby Epstein and Ricki Lake

Episode Date: June 29, 2022

100: I sit down with Ricki Lake and Abby Epstein to discuss the dark side of the Birth control industry, inspired by their documentary “The Business of Birth Control” We talk about the side effects that are mostly not disclosed, how it’s way more empowering to be in control of your cycle and know your body, the FDA process of approving drugs, how most believe if a doctor prescribed the medication, it must be safe, safer alternatives to preventing pregnancy and so much more!  For 50% off a screening of the film, use code REALFOODOLOGY Check Out Ricki and Abby Ricki's Instagram Abby's Instagram https://www.thebusinessof.life/ https://www.phexxi.com/ https://storiesofamillennial.com/lady-comp-for-natural-birth-control/ https://amzn.to/3QSeQalk https://www.instagram.com/businessofbirthcontrol/ Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening Why Fertility is Declining 

Hi, everyone. Before we get into this episode, I just wanted to take a moment to speak to everything that's going on right now and speak a little bit from my heart regarding this current situation. I am the biggest supporter of everyone having body sovereignty, and I don't believe in anyone's bodies being governed, period. I think any medical decision should be made personally with their doctor or medical professional and family if they so choose to involve them. I believe in the power of personal choice, period. Some may say this isn't a great time to release this episode, but I think we've gotten into a really bad habit in spite of everything going on in this country that's saying

certain X, Y, and Z conversations are inappropriate to have during certain times. I believe that there is no wrong time to have important conversations with all that is going on around us. I find it more important and empowering than ever to take this time as women to really get to know our bodies, get back in tune with them and their infinite power. The more educated we are and the way our cycle and our body works the more sovereignty we have over it we have to take our power back where we can and this is the one of the ways that we can i personally find this incredibly empowering and i hope you do too education is power now with that being said

this is in no way meant to diminish the reality that things happen. And this is an incredibly complex situation. There is no doubt women are going to be greatly affected by the overturning of Roe versus Wade. And I want to recognize that this is completely devastating. Please know and understand that this conversation in this episode is not meant to counter the Roe versus Wade situation.

This is an incredibly nuanced and complex situation. Abby and Ricky and I also addressed this a little bit in the episode, so I hope that you will listen to this episode with an open heart and an open mind. As with anything I share on this podcast, it is always coming from a place of love and a desire to see everyone thriving, healthy, and empowered. My hope is that you leave this episode feeling more empowered about your body than ever. I don't want to lose sight of the point of this episode, which is to provide alternatives to hormonal birth control, how devastating the health effects are on women's bodies, and just to shed light on how fucked up that industry is. We can hold space for all of this while also recognizing that women's rights are being devastatingly stripped right now. At the end of the day, like I said in the beginning,

I believe in everyone making choices they deem best for them. With that belief also comes the desire for informed consent, which is the point of this episode. We are unable to make an informed decision about something without having all the information. So with that being said, I hope that you can go into this episode with an open heart. And I really hope that it resonates with you. I love all of you. On today's episode of the Real Foodology podcast, there's no way for women to win right now. You know, they've got limited options for birth control that I think are healthy and safe and tolerable, very limited. And now you're limiting abortion. I'm sure you're going to limit access to that birth control soon. So it's like we just turned back the clock 50 years, you know, and we're already not in a great place

with birth control. We desperately need more education and we need better forms of birth control. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. This is a really big one for me. This is my 100th episode. That is wild, you guys. When I started this podcast almost two years ago, I wasn't sure if I was going to last. Not because I didn't love it, but it's a lot of work. And I am so grateful that I stuck around. I am so grateful for you, the listeners, that have been supporting me the whole way. Because without you and without you listening and leaving your ratings and reviews, I would not have this podcast. So I just want to take a moment to celebrate you guys, the listener today, because we made

it to 100 episodes. And I'm so, so excited about today's episode. If you've been around for a while and you've listened to the podcast, maybe you follow me on Instagram, you are very aware that I am super passionate about the content of today's episode, which is hormonal birth control. If you're a woman listening to this podcast, this is a very relatable conversation. We dive into birth control. I have my own story and experiences with birth control. I'm sure every single woman listening to this podcast has some sort of story. And unfortunately,

most of the experiences that women are having on birth control are negative. This is a lot of what we dive into today. So I sit down with Abby Epstein and Ricky Lake. They produced a documentary called The Business of Birth Control, which is a fantastic documentary. I highly recommend watching it. Every once in a while, they throw up codes on their Instagram. So definitely make sure that you follow them on Instagram because they throw codes up about free screenings, but I would highly recommend going and supporting these women. They are not making money off of this film. In fact, it costs them a lot of money. And so I just,

I want to support them in any way that we can. So go to their website, check out the documentary. I think you're going to love this episode. We talk all about the side effects of birth control, what motivated them to make this film and how they came across this information. You guys are going to be really shocked to find out that the FDA doesn't really always have our best interest or safety at heart. And we talk about the loose regulatory laws with the FDA and how a lot of these medications are getting approved, even though in the trials they are showing to have detrimental effects on our health. We also dive into what all those side effects are that were never communicated in the doctor's office, which is a huge issue I have with birth control is that we are putting really young women starting at like 13, 14 on birth control,

and we are not communicating to them what the true side effects are. And there really are a lot of risks with hormonal birth control. And I want to take a moment to say that I am not sitting here saying that I think you should do anything with your body. I am such a firm believer in informed consent. And then I want everyone the ability to make the best decision for their own body. So as long as you are 100% informed, you know, everything, both sides of it, obviously hormonal birth control has been amazing for women and going back to the workplace and having the ability to choose when she wants to start a family. However, that was the only part of the conversation that was being had in the doctor's office.

And unfortunately, these hormonal birth control pills are having devastating effects on women's health. And there are so many other options. So I just want women to be informed. So they know the risks going into it because that is true informed consent. If you know all of the risks, you know, everything that you're getting yourself into, and you still decide that this is the best thing for you, more power to you. I love it.

That is true informed consent. And this is why I feel so passionate about this because a lot of what we talk about in this episode today, and also what they talk about in the documentary is not common knowledge. People do not know about all of these devastating side effects. And the fact that many times women really struggle with getting pregnant after coming off the pill. I'm sure that if you were on birth control or you were, your doctor probably did not communicate that to you. There's also nutrient depletion. So we need to be on different supplements to make up for that and, um, you know, make sure that our

diet is getting all those nutrients. There are so many things that we are not communicated to as women about hormonal birth control that we need to know about. So anyways, I'm done with my tangent. Let's just get into the episode. I loved this episode so much. What a way to celebrate 100 episodes. So with that, let's get into the episode with Abby Epstein and Ricky Lake. I think you guys are going to love it. As always, if you're listening and you're loving the podcast, please take a moment to rate and review it. It helps the show so much. And I just appreciate your support so much. I hope appreciate your support so much. I hope you guys love the episode.

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healthy through hormonal shifts. So if you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me and use real foodology to get $100 off your lumen. That is l-u-m-e-n dot m-e and use real foodology at checkout for $100 off. Thank you so much to lumen for sponsoring this episode. First of all, I just want to say I'm so grateful that you wanted to come on the podcast and talk about this. This is something that I am so incredibly passionate about because I have my own experiences with birth control. I have many, well, every single one of my girlfriends has a story and some sort of experience. And so it's something personal, but it's also, I come from the lens of health and the way that I see it is there's so many detrimental side effects to our health and for, we don't even need to be on it necessarily,

or that's my personal opinion. So thank you so much for the work that you're doing. You're so welcome. Yeah, it's really needed. So I want to know, first of all, how did you guys come across this info? Like what inspired you to make this film? Well, it was Abby that got the book. So Holly Grigsball wrote a book called Sweetening the Pill. And this was before it even came out. She had sent Abby the galley.

She, of course, was familiar with our work with the business of being born. And she sent it to Abby. And I think it sat on Abby's desk at home for months, right? For months, because it was a big, fat manuscript. Yeah. Yeah, well, the first time she sent it, yeah, was like the manuscript. But then she sent the galley and I ended up reading it on the flight, literally on the flight from New York to L.A. So I read it. I got off the plane in L.A., went to Ricky's house and was like, I think this is our new project.

And we were in the middle of another film about, you know, like medicinal cannabis called Weed the People. We were right in production for that. So we were like, yeah, like, started making so many connections for myself, you know, from my own decade or so on the birth control pill. And they were connections that I'd never made. And I was reading all this information I'd never been given. And I was, like, totally outraged. And I just thought, my God, like nobody is talking about this. This is the biggest elephant in the room.

And everybody's scared to talk about this because I think really the conservatives have hijacked the narrative in a way that they've made it impossible for anybody who considers themselves liberal or progressive or libertarian or Democrat or, you know, whatever, like feminist is like not allowed to talk about side effects of birth control. It's like there's this diplomatic immunity around the pill. And I just thought, well, Ricky and I've been there before. You know, we took it on. This is not our first rodeo. Yeah. You know, we'll do it again. Well, and I think part of the issue too, right, is that we were sold a bill of goods. We were told as women, this is empowering. This is going to be your freedom. This is going to make you, you know, have equal rights and now you can go back into the workplace. But we weren't told about all these side effects. And I'm such a proponent for informed consent. And what's happening is non-informed consent. If you fully

are aware of all of the side effects, everything that it's doing to your body, the fact that it's shutting down your ovulation, which I don't find super empowering. I think it's way more empowering to be in tune with your cycle and tune with your body, you know exactly what's going on. But because we were told that you just take this pill and it's super empowering. Now, anyone that questions that they say, oh, you're anti-feminist. Um, you're against the women's movement. How could you, I get so many messages on Instagram. The only pushback that I get when I talk about this is women will write me and say, but this was so empowering for women. It put us in the workplace. And I say the same thing every time back. I'm like, I don't find it empowering to shut down your ovulation and everything that makes you a woman. Yeah. I mean, but what they're

saying is true. So it did do great advances for women 50, 60 years ago. Yes. And we have to be able to have the conversation now, a more nuanced conversation that there's a both and, you know? And no, I also, I was put on the pill in my early 20s. I was not told of the things that could happen to you. I didn't know to look out for, for me, hair loss was the major side effect that I suffered for years, for years and years and years,

and I did not make a correlation until really making this film. And I might have made a very different decision, but I was not given that choice. And so we are all about informed consent as well. Yeah, so there's a lot of side effects of the pill. What were some of the most shocking ones that you guys found when making this film? Well, for me, the head-sp head spinning thing that I learned in this film is that it changes your pheromones. It changes who you are attracted to, which like still gives me

like shivers up and down my spine at the idea, like you're choosing a partner and that, that, that choice can be affected by this drug. You know, that's life-changing potentially. It basically takes your ability to use your pheromones to sniff out a partner. It takes that whole ability offline. You know, it kind of mutes that whole sense, which, I mean, we don't think of ourselves as animals, but we are mammals. And, you know, that is a big part of not only attraction, but actually, if you are, you know, looking to mate, if you're a woman looking to mate with a man, that actually is in a very evolutionary way,

how we sort of can smell a potential partner and you can literally, your brain is taking in information about their genetics, about their, you know, compatibility with you, with you. It's really incredible. So that is what's going on in sniffing out a partner. And, and I think that, you know, that's, that's really shocking. And I think that we've heard these stories, right? Anecdotally for years, like somebody's on the pill, they meet a partner, then they go off the pill and they're like suddenly not attracted to that person. Or they're dating somebody, they go on the pill and like all of a sudden they're not only not attracted to the person, but they can be like repelled by the person. Yeah. Tell the story about Dr. Keith Bell, who is in our Masterclass series. He's this really,

really wonderful doctor that deals with fertility down in Richmond, Virginia. And he had a couple, a lesbian couple that was doing IVF. And the woman doing the IVF was repelled by her partner. Yeah, because you have to go on the pill. While doing the treatment. Well, yeah, you have to go on the pill. You have to go on the pill for IVF. Yeah, he said he has many lesbian clients that that happens to.

It's really crazy. So that was definitely one side effect that blew Ricky's mind for sure. And I have two girlfriends who have very similar stories. They are actually both now divorced from their husbands and not because of that. But that was one of the first signs is that when they went off birth control, they were literally repelled. Like one of my friends was like, all of a sudden, I could not stand the scent of him anymore. She's like, he was repulsive to me. That is so, it's like, it's crazy.

I mean, it makes sense. It does. It does. It does. It makes sense. And it blows your mind at the same time. Yeah. Just like once you put it all together, you know?

Right. I mean, because if you look at like what you were saying, Courtney, that your menstrual cycle, having a natural menstrual cycle means that your hormones, your endogenous hormones are flowing naturally, okay? And those hormones interact with the environment to literally create your personality. I mean, your hormones make you who you are. They're not just like sex hormones that control fertility. No, there's receptors on like every organ of the body, you know, for these hormones. So it makes sense, right? That if you're shutting down your cycle, you're shutting down

your own endogenous hormone production. And like everything about you could change, which is, you know, I think one of the biggest side effects is, are these mood disorders. And I think the fact that they even call them, like, mood is sort of a joke. I mean, it's so trivializing, right? Like, you're going to tell women that their mental health is a side effect. So, you know, I think depression and anxiety are huge. And I think we were really surprised in making the film

how extreme the depression and anxiety can be. Holly Griggs-Ball, she wrote in her book, Sweetening the Pill, about her own experience coming off Yaz. And really for 10 years, thinking that she was a person with like a serious panic and anxiety disorder, and then coming off Yaz and realizing it had been the pill the whole time. And if you read other women's stories, they describe similar symptoms, very specific, like this feeling of dread, this impending feeling of doom, you know. And I think that those stories are so trivialized and the research is now there. Like there's a plethora of research, you know, connecting these mental health disorders with contraceptives. And the fact that, you know, women are still not being warned, are still not being told that this is real in this day and age is like, I think it's just like

criminal. Yeah, it's absolutely criminal, especially when you find out, which we did in the films that they knew these side effects, and they're they've been downplaying them since day one. I mean, I remember going to the doctor several times voicing my concerns about, you know, certain side effects. And every time I was like, Oh, I mean, now you'll get, you'll be like a little moody. It might be affected a little bit, or like, you don't, you probably won't really gain weight. And all, I mean, they just downplayed all of it instead of just informing us so that we could make the best decision. And I think that was done on purpose. Yeah, I do too. And I think that, yeah, that's what, that is a big part of what we show in the film. You know, how they knew back in the sixties, back in the seventies, they had a lot of this

information about the most serious side effects like blood clots and strokes and pulmonary embolisms, but, you know, also about suicide and depression. You know, the risks are really shocking. And I think that now, you know, is a time where we have to sort of embrace a new form of feminism that doesn't just, you know, kind of bow down to pharmaceutical marketing and accept like every new, you know, drug that comes along as some tool for liberation. I think the new feminism is also about embracing all options. And if that option for you happens to be really getting intimate with your body and your cycle and, you know, managing your fertility on your own, that's very, very possible. And, you know, I think that more and more women should be empowered to do that. Yes, absolutely. And I want to, we'll go, we'll dive into that further down

in the episode, because I want to talk about some options that women have. But something that I think this is probably what shocked me the most in the film was just how loose the regulatory laws with the FDA were and like how much the drug companies were able to get away with. And I don't know why it shocked me so much because I keep seeing this in other areas in pharmaceutical in the pharmaceutical world. But every time it's still I'm just like, how, how, how are we allowing this to happen? Like, how are these companies getting away with approving these medications even though we know all the side effects? Well, look at, I mean, I watch a lot of television. Every commercial is a new pharmaceutical.

It is almost a joke. It feels like an SNL skit, but it's real life, you know? I don't know the answer to it, but it's just, it's out of control. And apparently there's only two countries, the U S and New Zealand are the only countries in the world that are allowed to advertise these drugs. I know it's insane. And the fact that we, the fact that people are waking up to this and we know this, but we're still allowing it to go down. Like this is what really gets me is, and you guys talked about this, like NuvaRing specifically, we know how many people are, their lives are being destroyed by this and it's still on the market. Why are we allowing this? It's still on the market. And I think, you know,

in some ways I think because of the opiate epidemic and I think, you know, if people watch the television series Dope Sick or if people, you know, followed the news on, you know, what the Sacklers did, I believe that now maybe their eyes are wide open a little bit more to the fact that, you know, this is, I mean, these are like crimes and misdemeanors going on at that level. And this is, you know, actually about cherry picking data, hiding data. Gag orders for victims. Gag orders for victims with settlements. It's all about the bottom line. It's so transparently profit over people. And I think with things like the NuvaRing, I mean, I have to tell you, Courtney, when we started making this film and I started meeting these families who'd lost their daughters to these drugs.

And, you know, I had grown up with this idea that like you're only at risk if you're over 35 or you're a smoker or you're obese, you know, and I'm meeting these families that have lost, you know, young, healthy women that were not smokers, that were vegan, that were athletes, you know, that did not have blood clotting disorders. And I swear, I called this one doctor and early on in the film, she was like a big wig in women's health. And I said to her, I just don't understand, like, why wouldn't they pull this off the market after just one woman died? You know, like, I'm sure that would happen if this was a drug for young boys. You know, if a couple of young, you know, teenage boys died, they would just pull it from the market. And so her pushback to me, which shocked me, I actually almost dropped the phone, is she said, have you ever seen anyone

die in childbirth, Abby? So you see, that is how they justify this. That's how the drug companies have justified it. They've come up with this kind of totally false comparison of saying, well, if you're not on the NuvaRing, then you're pregnant. And since your risk of getting a blood clot or dying in pregnancy is X and X, we can justify. And it's just, you know, they just make it up. They make it up, you know, because then they- And let's just add the J&J, you know, J&J vaccine. I mean, the hypocrisy of, you know, they pulled that off the market because of all the risks of blood clots. But they used in their defense of it that the blood clot risk was lower than from birth control. I remember that.

Yeah, and it's hundreds of times lower, by the way. It's so infuriating that they're able to get away with this. And I think, like, you're right. I think people are waking up and they're learning now. But I think for the longest time people just thought, like, oh, if my doctor prescribed this, it must be safe. And now people are waking up and realizing that there is a lot more going on. I mean, companies, again, you guys talked about this in the film, but these drug companies are spending way more money on marketing than they are on the trials. And even when they are doing the trials, they're

manipulating the data. And then they're telling doctors to tell their patients like, oh, well, you know, you're more likely to die in childbirth. So you might as well take this pill. But it's like, we're not being communicated with that. We can only really get pregnant about six days out of the month. So there's that aspect. We're not teaching women at all about how to track their cycle, about how to abstain from pregnancy, about how to have a smarter relationship with sex. It reminds me of that scene in Mean Girls with the sex education teacher where he's just like, if you have sex, you're going to get pregnant and you're going to die. Take some condoms. That's literally what we're doing. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that scene.

Like we're not communicating with women like how to actually really understand their cycles and abstain from pregnancy. And it is insane to me. And quite honestly, I find it incredibly offensive because it's really, it's very like gaslighting where they're basically like, oh, we're not going to bother you with this. Like you're not smart enough to understand this. So we're just going to give you a pill. You don't have to worry about it. We're smart. We're smart, empowered women, and we should deserve the right to take care of our fertility and take it into our own hands. And if that means we do want to take hormonal birth control, more power to you.

I love it. I just believe in knowing all the side effects, and then you can decide what works best for you. This is really exciting. Organifi now has kid stuff. They just released two kid products. One is called Easy Greens and it's a refreshing green apple juice where kids will never know that it's packed with veggies. And the other

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guarantee. If you want to resist aging at the cellular level, try Qualia Synalytic. Go to neurohacker.com slash realfoodology for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks to Neurohacker for sponsoring today's episode. Yeah, that's right. And I also think, you know, by shutting down the conversation around side effects, you know, you're eroding more trust. And you're also like preventing women who do need to be on these contraceptives for one reason or another, because let's not forget that somewhere between 35 to 50% of women taking the birth

control pill are not taking it for contraception. They are taking it to manage period problems they are taking it to manage their pcos their endometriosis fibroids you know heavy bleeding bad cramps acne i mean it's basically now this like band-aid fix all medicine so there are things you can do to mitigate the risks if you are taking it you know there are some supplements that you can take to try to counterbalance some of the nutrient depletion. You know, there are things that you can do, but we're not even talking about any side effects. So we're not even like helping the women who do need to be on it or do choose to be on it, right, to be healthier while they're taking it or to be aware of like red flags, right? Like you saw that whole thing with Hailey Bieber, like Hailey Bieber had a stroke. Nobody

told her that migraines and the pill are like a deadly combination. Like that is a very basic piece of information. And it's so crazy that Haley Bieber is the one going on YouTube, trying to warn millions of women about this. And nobody's like hearing this from their provider or like the birth control clinics. It's I think it's just crazy. It's crazy. That was another thing I found really shocking in the film was the migraines. I never knew that. So for women listening, I mean, absolutely, please watch the film. But something to take note of is if you're on birth control and you're having migraines, that's a sign that it's going to turn into a blood clot, basically. It's a much higher risk. That's right. It just means the hormones are not agreeing with you. And it, you know, you definitely have... The synthetic hormones are not agreeing with you. Yeah, you're definitely. And yeah, and let's just also be clear.

They like to call them synthetic hormones. Like, oh, you're taking synthetic hormones. Okay. They're not synthetic hormones. They're just endocrine disruptors. They are not synthetic hormones. Like women in menopause can take like a bioidentical hormone, right? Like if women are supplementing with like bioidentical estrogen or bioidentical progesterone, yeah, those are like lab made, you know, hormones.

The hormones that are the progestins that are in these pills are drugs. They're endocrine disruptors that are formulated in a lab that have nothing to do with a hormone. It's, they're literally not, not synthetic hormones. And that's another kind of like false marketing. I think that goes out. That's a great point. And, um, to continue on to that, women think that when they're put on these, um, they're actually classified as a class one carcinogens, by the way. I don't know if a lot of people know that. Again, added to the list of things that you're not communicated to when you're put on it.

Man, the list, like we could just keep adding on to it. But what women are not told is that, well, so they're told that they're put on this to balance their hormones. But what is actually happening is it's completely shutting down your own ovulation, your own hormone production, and just replacing it with these lab made drugs, essentially. Exactly. That's exactly what's happening. And I think, um, again, it's like, they're all, you know, they're all different. And we don't get a lot, we don't get into a lot of detail in the movie because we only have 90 minutes. Um, but we do get into detail in our masterclass. So I think, you know, we are not

just talking about the pill. We're talking about IUDs. We're talking about the, um, patch, the implant, the shot, you know, they all essentially work by the same mechanism. Um, there is one IUD that's copper that's called the Paragard. So that IUD does not contain hormones. Um, and you know, yeah, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. A lot of women don't know this. And I learned this in my own experience with the copper IUD. Um, it does not actually have hormones, but it does still have a hormonal effect on the body because yes as your as copper rises in your blood so does estrogen and i experienced this firsthand i actually i got mine taken out after two months because in the words of my doctor you should be a case study for this because my copper levels were so through the roof um we were i was taking tons of zinc to

try to combat that because for people listening that don't know this, so copper and zinc work together in your body. And as copper rises, then you want to counteract that and take more zinc, but it was not helping. And I finally had to take it out. I was having the most wild side effects. I mean, depression, anxiety, massive panic attacks. Like I was having this weird, like, um, what's the word? I don't have the word for it right now. Like fear where like, I was just so anxious and terrified of literally nothing, which sounds insane. But I remember just being like, who is this person? Anyways, that is to say that, um, I'm so glad that I went down a hole of finding what ended

up happening is I found, um, this forum and there were hundreds of comments from women. Like, I mean, I spent like two hours reading all of them just being like, yes, yes. Oh my God. Yes. This is me. Like, this is what I'm dealing with, but I had to really dig to find it, which makes me really upset. That's exactly right. And like, so yeah, so the copper IUD, absolutely. It definitely has side effects. A lot of women experience side effects on the copper IUD. It's different than, you know, the Mirena or the Skyla, which do have progestin. Those are a little bit different too, because some women can ovulate on those IUDs because they just have progestin. they don't have the estrogen. So those don't have like that risk of the blood clots and the strokes. They do have other side effects, of course. So you know, you really do like you just said, you have to do a deep dive because all these products are like super different and they react with your unique body chemistry in different ways.

Yeah. Well, and again, the information is being hidden from us, you know, like as we learned the film, you know, there were trials being done, but they were not being honest with what they were actually finding because I remember this like, oh, it makes me so upset because I feel like this happens a lot. But where they were talking about how the doctors were basically just saying that the benefits outweighed the risks and they were just like throwing the risks out the window as if they didn't mean anything. Yeah, 100%.

And I think that that, you know, you saw that in the trials that we show in the movie, the Nelson Pill hearings in the 70s. And I think that even if you look at the history of the NuvaRing, there's like a fantastic Vanity Fair article by Murray Brenner that we used for research in the movie, and it's called Danger in the Ring. And man, like she gets into it. I mean, she traces like the whole history of the NuvaRing and how it was sold from one company to another company and how they buried the bad research that showed the increased risk of blood clots. And they paid for studies that claimed that it had a similar risk as the pill. I mean, these are billions of dollars at stake here. And I mean, I hate to be so cynical, guys. But I mean,

I think we're seeing right now that I mean, we live in a country that really hates women. And more than ever right now. Yeah, we are. And, and, and honestly, they don't care. Um, I think that, you know, the these who have devastating strokes and become disabled or women who die, they have factored that into the cost of doing business. They have, you know, we show it in the film. They've already budgeted the payouts for those victims. And that way they can just carry on and their shareholders can keep making tons of money and they can keep putting these drugs on the market um and i i you know look i the only hope that i see is i think that everybody that i think we've talked to around the movie or sees the movie who's like

i would say like millennials to gen y gen z i. I think that, you know, those generations are growing up with their eyes much more wide open than like Ricky or I did in our, you know, like I really do. I think that they don't trust corporate culture. I'm curious, Courtney,

how did you learn all this? Like, like where, because you obviously knew all of this before seeing the film. You're one of the rare women out there, but, but it was at your own deep dive. Yeah. So, um, like I mentioned earlier, I have, so I have a couple, I have like a progression of a personal story with birth control. I will say I am, I have no idea where it comes from, but I am one of the, well, I don't want to want to say one of the few, but I was gifted from very early age to be really in tune with my body. And I don't know

where it came from. Could not tell you. But I remember, um, in high school begging my mom to go on birth control because at the time it was really like cool. All my friends were on it. None of us were even having sex cause we were literally like 13 and 14. Um, but we would just like, everyone was being put on it. And I was like, mom, this is like, you know, everyone's on it. I want to go on it. Thank God my mom didn't let me do it. And so it wasn't until I was, I think like 22. And at this point, I had a situation where I was, my period just was, I was just bleeding

for like two months or something. And we couldn't figure out why. And I remember I went to the doctor and they're like, okay, we're going to put you in birth control. I think it was Yaz. I couldn't even finish out the month of it. I don't know what it was. There was something where I was just like, I feel insane. Like I feel insane. I don't feel like I'm myself. I feel erratic. I feel moody. I feel crazy. And so I stopped and I didn't finish it. And then my period stuff resolved. And then a couple of years, I was dating this guy. I put myself, I went on NuvaRing actually.

And then the same thing happened. He actually sat me down. It wasn't even month in and he was like, it's got to go. I'll pull it out. Like, I don't, it's got to go. You are insane. I don't know who this person is. And like, I know that maybe some people will be like, oh, I can't believe you said that.

But honestly, it was the most amazing thing he could have said to me because it was in a loving way where he was like, who are you? Like, this is changing you as a human and we don't need this. Like, we'll figure out something else, which I thought was amazing. Wow. Yeah. That is amazing. And I consider you the lucky one, like the people that have this adverse reaction.

I wish I did because I didn't. I took that pill. It was like, I wasn't in touch and I wasn't even like aware, you know, to look at my, you know, idiosyncrasies. Yeah. Well, you know what I think it is? I think it was because I was lucky enough to not go on it at such an early age because most of my girlfriends started at like 14 and I was lucky to not started until my twenties. And I think at that point I had had enough, I had gone through puberty. I had, you know, kind of gone into my twenties and then could really see a stark difference between my moods, my feelings, like just how I felt in my body. And I think, yeah, I just lucked out. And so from then

on, I was like, absolutely not. I'm not doing this. And then around the same time, I just lucked out. And so from then on, I was like, absolutely not. I'm not doing this. And then around the same time, I started really getting into health. And I mean, it's, it's funny to look back on this now because the, the health and wellness world was nothing like it is now. Like people really, it was like, um, you know, whole foods was barely a thing. It was when everyone was kind of calling people like crunchy granola people, like, Oh, those are the, you know, crunchy granola people. I just happened to start getting really into health. And a lot of the like books and the experts that I was looking up to were talking about the detrimental effects of hormones, but it was so under the radar that even me telling my girlfriends, everyone's like,

what? No, we're good. It's kind of like me with home birth. It's very, very, very similar. Everyone thought I was crazy, including Abby. You know, I'm not, I'm not a crunchy granola chick. I am the daughter of a pharmacist. I'm someone that likes to like, like to take a pain. I still like to take a pain pill when I'm in pain, but, um, you know, yeah, it was just, it was very much out of the norm for me to be pursuing alternative or... But I think that you're experiential, Ricky. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're willing to... You know, you've done ayahuasca and, like, hallucinogenics,

and, like, you have all these experiences. And so I think for you, like, you were sort of... had this intuition that childbirth was something experiential and not like a medical procedure. You just, it was intuition. Like I think so much of how we move in the world as women is intuition. And I think it's also how we move in the world as mothers. And I, you know, it's just like, ask any mother, if you say like, whatever you think is wrong with your child, that is what's wrong. Like, don't listen to the doctor. If the doctor like gaslights you or blows you off, you know, whatever you think is going on is what's going

on. Because we, we do have that if you tune into it. And I think, unfortunately, you know, hormonal birth control disconnects us in many ways. And that's why when you're on these conscious, like you maybe didn't see yourself, Courtney, going crazy on the NuvaRing, but your boyfriend did. Like, it's a little bit hard. Like the brain isn't very good at like seeing itself. So it's very hard, like, you know, to sometimes understand when you're disconnected, when you've already like on the medication, most women see it only retroactively, right?

It's like they go off the pill and then they're like, oh my God, the veil is lifted. The veil is lifted. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think I'm so glad that you brought that up because I think we really downplay intuition because it's, and it's really women's superpower. And I think in a way men are scared of it because it is so powerful. And again, this is another reason why I do not find birth control

empowering because it shuts us off from our, our connection to ourselves. And when we really tune into that intuition, we are fucking powerful. Like women are amazing. And because we have an intuition, but we are gaslit by doctors. We are told like, no, you're wrong about this. And like you said about the kid, we're always right about our kids. You know, moms know, moms know better. And I think men are scared of our intuition. And also I think, you know, okay. So the business of being born, I know you haven't seen it yet, Courtney, but you will. Yeah, yeah. It's on my list.

But there's like a really funny moment in that movie where I'm sitting with a bunch of OBGYN residents. They're all young. They're all female. And I asked them, how often do you guys ever get to see like a fully natural birth from beginning to end? And they just sit there in frozen silence. And then finally, one of them says, almost never. So you have to think, right? That's like the OBGYN profession, right? They're not trained in normal, natural physiological birth, right? That's what midwives do. So now think about those are the same people that are prescribing you birth control. or whatever, and you're like, oh, I'm going to use fertility awareness method and I'm going to track my cycles. I mean, they're going to go, ha, ha, ha. You're going to be pregnant in five seconds because they are not trained in it. It's the same thing. That's not what medical training is in this country. It's drugs and surgery. That's what it is. Yes. I talk about this all the time.

Unfortunately, we are in a place where our medical system, like you said, is set up. It's just lock and step. There is no room for bio-individuality. There's no seeing this person in front of you for everything that's going on in their life. And just like their bio-individuality, it's like, oh, you have X, Y, and Z symptom. Okay. We have a pill for those symptoms.

And this is not to, um, completely shit on, you know, our, our Western medical model. I do believe in medicine. So I feel like I always have to say that, like, I'm not saying that we wouldn't be here today without medicine, but it, we have gotten to a place now where it is the only thing that we do. And as a result, our doctors are not trained, especially now with all these chronic diseases that we're seeing today. Like we're, we're just throwing pills at everything. And the majority of the time, if you can just get your diet in order, get your mental health in order, get off the birth control. If it is affecting your mental health, like there's a lot of things that we need to be examining now. The doctors just

don't, they're not trained to look for. Absolutely. They don't have the time. I mean, I, you know, I really, I feel for them because, you know, they're, it's a business and they need to move it along and get to the next. So you don't have that time with your care provider to ask questions. Yeah. You know, you really have to do it yourself. And I think that's why you'll see a lot of the experts in our movie are filling that gap. They are really filling that gap. And I think that's why we're launching this masterclass, because there is a gap, right? Like, not everybody can afford to go to a functional medicine doctor and not everybody can afford to go to a naturopath. Like people can't afford, you know, acupuncture and because it's not covered and, you know, they have these terrible

health plans or no health plan. And so I feel that there is this whole now community online. And I think that a lot of the experts that you'll see, like, in our documentary, they have classes, they have online courses, they have incredible books. The amount of people that have told me, like, oh, I read Tony Wexler's book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility, when I was, you know, 16. And as soon as I read that, I knew that I could do this myself, I didn't need to be on any kind of pill. That's incredible. So it's like, there's a way I think to fill these gaps. And so that's what we're doing because like for Ricky and I,

I mean, we are not in the business of dispensing any medical advice to anyone or telling anybody what to do or how to manage their fertility. But what we can provide, you know, is some more body literacy, is some more education and just like, like a gateway, you know, like a path because like so, so little is understood. And I think the lack of body literacy in this country is staggering. And I think if you pulled like most women, they, they really aren't even aware of their menstrual cycle until they're actually trying to conceive, you know, and that's like the first time that they start to like, actually think about how their body works. Which makes me so sad because I don't know the experience that you had in sex ed, but I remember feeling a lot of shame about my body and about my cycle because we were really not taught anything

except for that you could get pregnant any day of the month and, you know, be careful about STDs. But there is no education about like, oh, you're going to, you know, feel this certain way during this part of your cycle and you're going to have discharge. And, um, you know, you can only really get pregnant in this like six to seven day window. Like there was no discussion whatsoever about it. And, you know, this comes back into where my passion is about all this, because coming from a state of, you know, when I was younger, I was truly, I was like ashamed of my body and now like learning all about it. I'm so incredibly empowered that I want to share this with everyone. And, you know, I said this at the very beginning, but again, it's why I'm so grateful

that there are people like you putting this information out in the world because it's really, um, it's life-changing for women. It's super empowering. I agree. It's very life-changing. And like last Monday, we had a screening of the film in Florida, in Orlando, and it was in this church, okay? And this young woman came up to me after the screening and she said, I just want you to know, you know, this documentary is so incredible. And she said, when I was younger, I got pregnant and I had to give the baby up for adoption. And she said, and now I use fertility awareness method.

And she said, and I am so empowered. Like I, you know, and I just thought it was such an interesting story because, you know, here's a woman, right. That probably never would have had to go through that experience, you know, here's a woman, right, that probably never would have had to go through that experience, you know, of like being pregnant and carrying a baby to term as a teenager and giving the baby up for adoption. Like, had she just had the knowledge, like the fertility, you know, just the basic, you know, body literacy knowledge. And then I just thought it was so interesting that having gone through that experience, the reaction wasn't, okay, now I'm going to get on an IUD for five years and an implant, you know, just do something really

long acting just to make sure that never happens to me again. Instead, it was like, you know, no, I'm going gonna take the power really into my hands. And I had a long talk with her, and it was super healing for her. You know, it was really, really healing from the whole experience. So, um, I think that, like, you know, Ricky and I have done, you know, podcasts with, like, people, like, remember we were talking to, like, Tess Holliday, and she was talking about

growing up in Mississippi and how, you know, she thought she was, like, the big success story because she made it to 19 without getting pregnant. Like, it was just expected. All her friends had teen pregnancies, and none of them were allowed to talk about sex, be educated about sex, be educated about their bodies.

I mean, it feels, honestly, again, none of them were allowed to talk about sex be educated about sex be educated about their bodies i mean it feels honestly again like criminal like withholding this information it's just it's criminal you are putting people at risk at serious serious risk for disease for unplanned pregnancies for all of it yeah and And because we're downplaying these side effects, like I, I feel like I just keep hammering this in only because I really feel like a lot of women still don't fully understand the detrimental effects on the body. We are downplaying these side effects so much so that women are more inclined to go on the pill because they think they're safer that way than, you know, than learning other ways of doing this.

Like I had a discussion with a woman the other day where she was like, oh, my God, like no one really has strokes or whatever. And I was like, you should actually look at the actual percentage of it. And I would highly recommend you watching this film. I mean, she downplayed it so far to the point that I was like, Oh, it's like, God, I wish I could just make you see it. But you know, and then women are on the pill, they're suffering from some depression, and then they go on an antidepressant. You know, you just layer on more drugs. Yeah, the statistics of that, actually, I would highly recommend everyone I can leave some stuff in the show notes afterwards. But this was something that I found really shocking. When I

found this out is that the statistics of the amount of women that go on an SSRI after being on birth control and not being told that it's just from their birth control is staggering. It is. And then I think in terms of other side effects, Courtney, I mean, like there's so many side effects. I mean, we could talk for three hours about possible side effects, because again, everybody's body is so different. But you know, like I just, I mentioned before nutrient and depletion. And I think, you know, you have to understand the pill, like destroys your microbiome, like it totally messes up your microbiome. And we now know that there is a gut brain connection. And we assume that that has something to do with the depression.

It dysregulates your cortisol, which we talk about a bit in the movie. But it really makes women much less able to cope with stress. And there's also kind of an entire like inflammatory response that the body has. That kind of inflammation can lead to UTIs. It can lead to, you know, other symptoms of inflammation. It greatly increases your risk of an autoimmune disease. It being on the pill for five years can double your chances of like Crohn's and colitis. For example, um, it depletes your body of folate. It can increase your risk of cervical cancer

being on it. Shrink your clitoris. You could have shrinkage of your clitoris. That's wild. Up to 25%. And libido, you know, effects on libido can be really devastating because it binds up all your free testosterone. And then what we're hearing is that a lot of women's testosterone levels do not restore. So when they come off the pill, they never really get their libido back to the degree that they could have because their testosterone levels don't ever really like rebound that way. You know, the irony, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. The irony of the low libido thing. I've always like laughed about this. I don't want it to sound offensive, but basically like, so we're marketed as you can have free sex whenever you want. Woo hoo. Like sex is on the table now that you're on the pill, but you have the lowest libido ever that you don't want to have sex. You don't want to have sex. Yes. And

not only do you not want to have sex, um, you know, vaginal dryness is huge and nobody talks about it. And then you feel shame. Yes. So like your sex drive is down, but you are not being able to self lubricate. And the fact that even if you did read that huge pamphlet that comes, even if you were like, right, like unfolded that 20 pitching, you're not going to find this stuff on the pamphlet. Like, it's not going to say your clitoris can shrink up to 25%. It's not going to say that. So, you know, it's and I think, again, you know. There's always this downside that like, you know, Ricky and I will be accused of like, oh, you're fear mongering. And it's like, I hate that. I hate that word because what is what is fear mongering? We're not what's our agenda if we're fear mongering? Like, what are we selling that we want people to get off the pill? We don't have an agenda.

We're not fear mongering, we're informing. Like everything that we're saying is true. Every person in our movie basically has a PhD or an MD, or they're like very well vetted. And you know, this is true. This is not, you know, like wild kind of, um, you know, information that's like, we've pulled off the internet somewhere to be shocking. Like it's all true. And because it's true, it's shocking. It is shocking. Yeah. Well, and you know, we all have, a lot of us have

experiences with this and we want to save women from going through this pain of it. I mean, you were talking about nutrient depletion, so that's not communicated at all. And then women get off the pill and they're so nutrient depleted that they can't get pregnant. And they're being told that, oh, you can just take the pill, no problem. And then you can get off of it and you'll get pregnant, no problem. And we're wondering why we have an epidemic of infertility now. And I think there's a link to it. There's a lot of different things going on. It's very multifaceted. So I don't want to say that it's just this one thing, but it is wreaking havoc on our fertility. And, you know, we, we are really like the first generation, I would say that's really seeing the long-term effects of this, right? Because

when this was first approved, which I also learned this in your film, it was approved to only be on for a very short amount of time. Yeah. I know women that have been on it for decades. Yeah. No, yeah. It's FDA approved. It was originally approved really for married women to use to space out their children. So, you know, to be on it for a couple months, you know, like just to space, space that children. And that's, you know, to be on it for a couple months, you know, like just to space that children. And that's, you know, again, what you learn about the FDA. And after they approve these drugs, it's up to the manufacturer to actually report adverse effects. Can you imagine? It's like letting the, you know, rooster guard the hen house any more than

that and like even one of the dads in the film that we that we show joe malone when his daughter dies from the nuva ring he calls the fda for weeks and weeks and it's like i don't understand like i filed this report my daughter died and they're like oh we don't have the research. We just don't have the funding. Are you, I mean, don't you want to keep other people's daughters from dying? Like, this is what we were saying earlier. How are these drugs still on the market? Yeah. And going back to what you were saying, the fear mongering thing, it makes me so mad. Cause I'm like, when someone says that it's basically a form of gaslighting where you're

just like shutting down the conversation entirely. You're not even allowing this person to have their own, you know, the conversation about it. And not only that, but we are keeping people then from the actual truth. Like no one's trying to scare you. We're trying to inform you so that you don't make the same mistakes that we did or other people did that had drastic effects on their lives. Let me also add that it is scary. It is scary.

It is very scary. Because especially in light of what has just taken place, you know, the right to an abortion in most parts of this country has now been taken away. So it is scary. I mean, our agenda, we're not trying to scare people. We want to inform them. But I do, I have to just acknowledge that it is a very scary time. And, you know, it's a lot. You know, if you're truly trying to reduce the number of abortions, then, you know, the way to do that is, you know, a not to limit access to birth control, but to educate and inform around body literacy and also to inform and educate around birth control methods and side effects. Because the truth is that over 50% of women

go off birth control because of the side effects. And that's a statistic. So if you have over half the women trying to be on birth control going off because of the side effects, and you have 50% of the pregnancies in this country are unplanned. Um, hello. You know, it's like how much burden are women supposed to carry? Like where do the people with the penises come in to the picture here?

And, um, you know, Ricky and I are, are working on teaming up with a new company that has a birth control device for men. That's like a 10 minute painless procedure. It basically gives them kind of like a reversible vasectomy. And like, man, when that comes on the market, I mean, we are going to be like, totally, we are going to be like the biggest cheerleaders because it's going to be like, okay, so don't be hypocritical. You know what I mean? Don't be hypocritical. If you're going to mandate this and mandate that and, you know, have the government involved in everybody's sex life and fertility all of a sudden, then mandate this, you know, because it's like, there's no,

there's no way for women to win right now you know they've got limited options for birth control that i think are healthy and safe and tolerable very limited and now you're limiting abortion i'm sure you're going to limit access to that birth control soon so it's like in a way you know we are back to this kind of second wave feminism of this DIY, get out your mirror, look at your cervix, like, figure out because I think we're, you know, we're back to that. We just turned back the clock 50 years, you know, and so we're seeing a lot of that. But that's, that's really, you know, I think insult to injury, fear, we can also use this as fuel to empower us. And what a time for women to educate other women and educate ourselves on our bodies and really,

um, become in tune with our bodies and learn our cycles, learn, you know, the days that we can get pregnant and, you know, when we should, should abstain and use condoms. And yeah, I just think that, um, more than ever, it's really important that we all band together, you know, power to the women. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, that's, you know, I'm seeing a lot of it, you know, there's a big call community call today that friends of ours organized, you know, to put our heads together. And, you know, I was marching in the streets of New York a couple nights ago, and it was amazing. It was tons of men on the street. I mean, it was really just like the population, you know, like the general population coming out, being like, how does this court, you know, have the power to do this?

But I think as we all like are aware, it's really never about abortion, right? It's always about power. We talk a lot in the film about this racist and misogynistic history of birth control. And there's a lot of racism, I think, in the way that this country is still trying to determine who has babies and who doesn't have babies and still trying to, you know, keep communities of color down and impoverished and out of power.

And I think all of this is just a way to continue the patriarchy. And, you know, it's, it is, that's what it is. And I think that there's a lot of tie-ins to medicine. You know, we know that medicine is very patriarchal and, and white supremacist. Um, there's a terrible history of exploiting and experimenting on women of color you know in gynecology so it's like i don't know i mean it's we're looking at a lot of hard realities but it's almost like we got to burn it to the ground you know and we gotta like start start again yeah yeah because um this is not a ship we can steer. This is a ship that's gone off the rails, you know, so it's like, we've got to create our own little networks now.

Absolutely. And you know, I will say I read something online yesterday that made me feel a little bit better. You know, he, I'm trying to remember the exact quote, but he was basically saying, you know, if, if you're feeling like this is the end of the world and, um, not from a biblical sense, just in general, you know, like everything's on fire, it kind of feels like, um, he was like, just know that this is actually all happening for us. And what's really happening is this level, this deep level of corruption. The veil is being lifted and we just happen to be in the middle of the fight right now. I agree. I saw that as well. And I thought the same thing. Yes. I agree with that. I, I, yes, we're it's, it's right in front of us. We can't ignore it anymore. No, I agree. No, I agree. And I think like, you know, in the movie, that's why in the documentary,

we show the side effects, but then we also try to pull back the veil on the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA so that like, people can see when you pull back the curtain, you know, what's what's going on here, because that is the reality. You know what I mean? It is you're right. It's like such a deep level of corruption and you have to reveal it. And then it's scary, right? Because I will say Americans generally, they like to have other people responsible and then sue them. They don't like to take a lot of accountability for their choices and their experience. They would rather be like, well, the doctor told me to do this and it would all be perfect and it wasn't perfect. So now it's like malpractice.

And so everybody's like in this kind of, you know, childlike. Sue happy. Exactly, Sue happy and very childlike, you know, not the sense of like, no, I'm accountable for my decisions about my health and my body. I can't outsource that. You know, I cannot outsource that to even the smartest doctor in the world. It's like you absolutely it's like you it's just you have to be your own advocate.

You have to do your own research, you know, because the rooster's guarding the hen house, like we said, and it's just, there isn't a lot of institutional trust that we can have right now, you know? And so that's why you've got to like, find your communities, find, you know, the practitioners that are writing the books, the ones that are writing the books that are not being paid by the pharmaceutical companies. Exactly. Yes. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Those are the ones that are coming after us. Yeah. We have a lot of pushback in these articles that are being written that you see their one source is a doctor that is on the medical board of the big pharma companies. Of course. It's so transparent.

It's so obvious to us. And they're just trying to shoot us down, but we stand by everything that is said in this movie. And it's food for thought. We give this information. We really don't care what you do. I mean, we care about you. We don't really care what the decision is,

but you need to make an informed choice when it comes. It's a big deal. These, you know, going on these drugs, it's a really big deal. Yeah, it is. It is. And like you, somebody just wrote me a DM about this. Somebody, she became a doula actually, because of our seeing the business of being born. And she said, you know, I look back on these 10 years that I was on the Depot Provera shot, which by the way, is one of the most toxic, one of the worst, terrible forms of birth control. And she said, and I think about all the depression and anxiety that I lived through. And she said, and now I have to think about what could my life have been if my light wasn't dimmed from like the age 15 to 25, my light was dimmed. And, you know, that's why I don't see these drugs as empowering,

just like you, Courtney, you know. I don't see them as empowering because if you're taking these drugs during your most kind of revolutionary, awake years, like from adolescence through young adulthood, and they're dimming your light in any way, that's not a good trade-off just for managing your fertility because there are other ways to manage your fertility. Absolutely. Yeah. I love the way you put that. Well, let's give the listeners some hope because I always like to end it on a more hopeful note. Let's go on the upswing. Yes. All very, very important information that we talked about, but I also want to provide women with, so now that we know this, now what, you know, what do we do? Well, I would say,

you know, first of all, if you're on hormonal birth control of any kind and it's working for you, meaning you feel good on it, you don't feel depressed, you don't feel like your sex drive has been sapped, you're not having a lot of secondary side effects, amazing. Then please just research a little bit about what some of the more long-term consequences can be. Look at what you can do just to supplement about what some of the more long-term consequences can be.

Look at what you can do just to supplement and keep yourself as healthy as you can. And then I would also say, if you are on hormonal contraception and you're coming to a point where you think you want to get off of it, please don't do that overnight. Please don't just like, you know, stop taking the pill suddenly. It's a big crash for your body. It's a big adjustment for your body. So please like get support. It is a big thing. And you know,

a lot of women, it takes many months, like you can have some really bad rebound reactions, you can get like crazy acne or mood swings. So just like, there are so many women in our film who offer support for this, but you should definitely start supplementing before you actually like transition off birth control. There's so many ways to support your body and support that transition. So I would say do that. And then I would say for people who are frustrated because the hormonal contraceptive products have never worked for you, or you've never felt right on them, you know, please, you know, look at what's going on in the world of like fertility awareness methods and apps. And I understand now that tracking apps are complicated for people that live in states with abortion bans. So I'm not going to recommend somebody living in a state with an abortion ban to put any information onto anything digital. But guess what? You can do it in a notebook. You know, you can track, you just take

your temperature every day, you chart your temperature. And, you know, I don't, I think that a lot of women feel really happy and empowered just understanding when they're fertile and managing their cycle, like those six days using either a barrier method for contraception or whatever they need to do or abstaining. You know, it's just like, I think that there are now, there's a burgeoning like femtech world. And I think that there are now there's a burgeoning like femtech world and i think that there's amazing entrepreneurs and there's going to be more and more coming on to the market i think that it's going to get even like smarter um but there's it's really i think something that you can do i also think that you know there are still a lot of young people I talk to that use condoms and, you know, I think have male partners that are like supportive of

them not taking, you know, these drugs. And so I also think if you do want to try a fertility awareness-based method, it's very important, I think, to have the support of your partner and to say, hey, this is like a team thing. Like we have to learn this together, you know? I think the masterclass series too will be really, really informative for not just the woman, but for the partner as well. Guide you through getting off of the pill if you want, talking about fertility awareness methods, how to track your cycle yeah i think um it's a great tool you know the movie's a gateway and a conversation starter and i think the master class just goes way deeper i agree i agree yeah and so there's a lot out there and i think you know there's there should

be and there will be more coming out onto the market, but I think that we have to make our voices heard. Um, and that there is dissatisfaction because if we don't voice that there's dissatisfaction with the current slate of, you know, optional hormonal birth control options, exactly. Then there's really like no need to develop anything else. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you touched on such a great point with that at the end there where, um, we have not been given any other options in the last like 40 years. It's just been hormonal birth control. It's crazy that it has taken us this long to figure this out. Um, and as you were talking, I w I was, um, looking up a couple of things that, so I have

a girlfriend, um, who now has two kids, but she actually was one of the first people that got me into all this a really long time ago. And she said, read taking charge of your fertility, which is a book that you brought up earlier, which I will add in the show notes. I think every woman needs to read this book because this will help you fully understand your cycle and how to track it. And then the women that are worried about the data tracking that are living in those red states, there is a machine called the Lady Comp.

Do you guys know about the Lady Comp? Yep. Yeah. They're in the movie. Yeah. Oh, that's right. They were. Yes.

And that's a great idea. That's a great idea, Courtney, because that information stays with, it's just like a computer. It's just in the little machine. Exactly. So women that are worried about that, you can just get that. And my girlfriend that I mentioned has actually used this Lady Comp for like 10 years. She's been married ever since I've known her. And she used it to abstain from getting pregnant. And then she used it to conceive both of her kids and is now using it again to abstain from having any more kids so yeah it's a that's it we love that company and there's also another product that came on the market um you may have seen their commercials they have these really crazy like welcomed my vagina commercials with

the actress from creek but um it's a product called yeah it's a product called, yeah, it's a product called Phexi. Oh, the gel? Yeah, the gel. It's P-H-E-X-X-I. And they're, you know, they're on there as a non-hormonal, single-use, female-controlled, reproductive, not reproductive, contraceptive option. And so, yeah, it's something that you insert in the vagina before sex and has no hormones. And, you know, so that's another option out there. That's like my favorite option is vasectomy. Yeah. Yes. I'm a fan of that one. Yes. Yeah. And I love having these conversations because we can give women all these different options and then you figure out what works best for you, you know? Yep. That's exactly,

exactly right. And also there's something called, um, like, you know, Pankasani talks about this in Digimama, but Digimama is another great place to go. She's a badass. We love her. at the end and you spit you spit into the tube and then you flip it over and you can look at the pattern of your saliva on the glass and it will tell you if you're fertile oh i've never heard that yeah yeah it's so interesting i know like and digi mom talked about and actually when we were editing the film my editor bought one because she thought it was like so interesting and she just bought one online and like, yeah. So I know that they're trying to develop some, some tech around that, like where you spit on a chip and then you put the chip in your phone and then it will tell you if you're like fertile that day. So yeah, your saliva is another biomarker I know they're working on. So. Yeah. Well, and then,

you know, there is another one. I know there's a lot of controversy, controversy right now about the data in these apps, but I live in California. And so I feel okay using natural cycles. I really like natural cycles a lot. So if you're comfortable with the possibility of this company sharing your data, which I mean that we could do a whole other podcast about that mm-hmm yes I'm a fan of Clue I use Clue I love Clue too yeah mm-hmm who's great yeah Clue is great so yeah I think there's there there are definitely a lot of products out there and like you mentioned natural cycles they actually have FDA approval now as digital birth control. I think Clue is about to get the same FDA approval or about to come out with with that.

So that's super exciting. Amazing. Yeah. So, you know, look, I mean, it's there's advances. But again, I think it's like going to be this generation that's going to revive the feminist health movement know, they're just don't have a lot of the, um, you know, hesitations and like blockages to talk about this stuff. And so I think with like freeing that up, you know, I believe that we're going to see more innovation. I just do. And I think we're going to see more non-hormonal options. I love that. It makes me so happy to hear. Well, before we close out, is there anything that we didn't talk about in the film that you think is really important for people to know or just in general? Dr. Epstein covered a lot. Dr. Epstein. Yeah. I, we, we really, I mean, yes, watch the film and then, um, yeah, we are just at the moment, you know, we don't actually have like a distributor in the U.S. and Canada.

So we are really distributing this movie on our own. We have free screening windows all the time. So if you just follow us, we're at Business of Birth Control. And we've got our master class launching this summer. And, you know, just some, it's a really exciting community. So everything that we're doing is basically on the business of birth, the business of birth control dot com. Like it's all there. We're on video.

And you can see, you can also see the business of being born. We just got the rights back after 14 years. So we have that also on our platform. Yeah. We have everything on our platform, but it's all on our platform. Like you can't find the business of birth control on Amazon. You cannot find it on Netflix. You cannot find it on Google play or Apple. It is literally on our website. Um, so, and everything everything is, that's where you find it. Amazing. Well, everyone listening, please go support them in their film because like they said

earlier, they're not really making any money off of this. There's just, you know, pure passion and a desire to get this message out to women. That's right. Yeah. It ain't a talk show. Maybe it should be though. Right? Well, it's so much a talk show. Maybe it should be though. Right? Well, it's so much to talk about, but yeah, it ain't the Ricky Lake show.

But it's like I told you before we were on air, it's like the most fulfilling work I do is this work with Abby Epstein. So it's an honor to just use my name and the platform that I had for so long to push out this information for women. Yeah, it's incredible. So I want to ask you a question that I ask everyone on the podcast before we leave. What are your health non-negotiables? So these are things that no matter how crazy busy your day is that you prioritize in order to stay healthy and it can be, you know, diet, lifestyle, anything. Wow. Oh my goodness. I mean, for me, like I'm, I hike and I get out in nature every, pretty much every morning I live in Malibu.

It's such a gift to be, to live where I live and to go out my door and get on my hiking trail. So I have a dog, I have a new dog. I lost my dog a couple months ago. So I have a new little dog. That's, I'm sorry. I've been distracted while doing this. But that to me is when I feel sort of most connected and I just appreciate nature and beauty and being present. So that's something I do every day. I love that. What about you, Abby?

Well, mine is less, yeah. I mean, I have still have like kind of kids at home. So it's harder for me to be like super, super consistent. But yeah, I would say I definitely try to move in some way, like whether that's to get to a Pilates class or take a long walk with the dog. And if I've had a day where it's just none of that has happened and it's just been like work. And then I usually try to at least take a bath and I like have these little battery powered candles around my bathtub. And so I'll turn those on. I'll put some salts and some oils in the bath and I'll put on one of my like astrology podcasts, you know, something like

I have one more. Can I add one more yeah because this is really this is even beyond the hiking every night my my new beautiful husband and i we get high and naked in bed every night every night it is the secret to oh my god beautiful healthy relationship we are both you know empty nesters and every night we take our gummy and we get naked and we, whether it's watching TV or have sex or whatever it is, it is bonding time and it's, it's medicine. Oh my God. I think that might be my favorite response on the podcast yet. I wish I thought of it first. Hiking's so boring. Okay. Cut out, cut out your hiking one for me. You're going to cut out the hiking.

We'll just leave the sex, yeah, with the edible. No, I love that. Well, I was going to say one of my health non-negotiables is hiking every day. So I can relate with you on that actually. And I live in Santa Monica, so I always go to like the Palisades. And yeah, so I share that passion with you. So I love it. Los Leonis.

Los Leonis is one of my favorite trails. Yes, I do Los Leonis all the time. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah. But also a huge fan of the favorite trails. Yes, I do Los Llanos all the time. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. But also a huge fan of the gummies. So I'm in full support of that as well. We're very lucky for that and other reasons to live in California. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Well, let everyone know. I think we already dropped your website,

but let's say one more time just where everyone can find you, where they can find the film and how they can support. The businessofbirth control.com. Yes. And we'll put it in the show notes too. And also business of birth control on Instagram as well, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm at Ricky Lake and she's at Abby Epstein, Epstein XOXO, right? Is that because your name was taken already? That's because I don't know how to get the blue check. Yeah. And my name was taken. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was such an amazing conversation and I can't wait to release it. You're amazing. Thank you so much for having us. Please come visit me. Come to Malibu. We'll go on a hike. Let's go on a hike. I would love that. I love it. I would love

it. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resident media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Chris McCone. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie, spelled with a J. Love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.