Realfoodology - The Truth About Raw Milk, Fats, and Fertility | Sally Fallon
Episode Date: February 11, 2025232: In this episode, I sit down with Sally Fallon Morrell, founding president of the Weston A. Price Foundation and author of Nourishing Traditions. Her book was required reading in my master’s nut...rition program, so this was a special conversation! We dive into ancestral nutrition, covering raw milk, healthy fats, and real foods that support fertility and overall health. As I navigate my own fertility journey, I was eager to learn what foods best promote conception and a healthy pregnancy. We also discuss the baby formula vs. breastfeeding debate with a compassionate and informed approach. Sally shares advice for moms who struggle with breastfeeding and natural alternatives for those who need them. Topics Covered: Why raw milk is beneficial The truth about healthy fats & butter Diet’s role in fertility & pregnancy Baby formula vs. breastfeeding Regenerative farming & traditional food prep Sponsored By: MANUKORA Go to Manukora.com/REALFOODOLOGY to get $25 off the Starter Kit, which comes with an MGO 850+ Manuka Honey jar, 5 honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook! LMNT Get your free Sample Pack with any LMNT drink mix purchase at drinklmnt.com/realfoodology BIOptimizers For an exclusive offer go to bioptimizers.com/realfoodology and use promo code REALFOODOLOGY Pique Get 20% off on the Radiant Skin Duo, plus a FREE starter kit including a rechargeable frother and glass beaker, with my exclusive link: Piquelife.com/Realfoodology Paleovalley Save at 15% at paleovalley.com/realfoodology and use code REALFOODOLOGY Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:05:53 - Sally’s background and journey 00:08:28 - Bone broth and chicken soup benefits 00:11:03 - Baby formula, hormones, and cholesterol 00:14:40 - Infertility and nutrition’s role 00:17:23 - Fertility diet, low-fat myths, and subsidized foods 00:20:31 - Why eating fat is essential 00:23:37 - Commercial vs. regenerative farming 00:24:50 - Baby formula vs. breast milk 00:27:07 - How to support breast milk production 00:30:02 - Raw milk vs. grass-fed milk 00:31:42 - Fermented foods and gut bacteria 00:35:31 - Baby formula industry and lobbyists 00:37:45 - Homemade baby formula alternatives 00:39:20 - Why women struggle with breastfeeding 00:41:50 - Epidurals, fentanyl, and birth interventions 00:43:48 - Weaning foods, salt, and electrolytes 00:46:29 - When and how to introduce foods to babies 00:49:49 - Best first foods for infants 00:51:01 - Raw milk myths and lactose intolerance 00:54:02 - Common myths about fats 00:57:32 - Beef tallow, palm oil, and healthy fats 01:00:01 - Concerns about high-meat diets 01:03:45 - Debunking raw milk misconceptions 01:09:02 - Environmental impacts of farming 01:13:24 - Sally’s hopes for the future of nutrition Weston A Price Foundation: Website Instagram Podcast Sally Fallon Books RealMilk.com NourishingTraditions.com Check Out Courtney LEAVE US A VOICE MESSAGE Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Produced By: Drake Peterson
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on today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast.
Our nutrition decisions are being made by accountants.
They're not being made by people who care for babies.
Hi, guys.
Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast.
As always, I'm your host, Courtney Swan,
and today's episode is with Sally Fallon Morrell.
She is the founding president of the Weston A. Price Foundation,
and she also wrote a book called Nourishing Traditions.
I was really stoked to get to be able to sit down with her. Not only do I love the work that Weston
A Price is doing, side note, if you don't follow them on Instagram, I highly recommend doing that.
They also have an amazing podcast, which is full of all the information that we go over today and
so much more that I didn't even have time to cover. But I was really excited because she is the author of Nourishing Traditions, which was
actually a book that was required reading for me during my master's program in one of
my nutrition classes.
So it was really cool to be able to sit down and talk with her, pick her brain.
We talked about a lot of things that I've talked about in passing on the podcast, but I've never really
dove into. Things like raw milk, why we should be eating more butter, what healthy fats she
recommends, and just overall, what does a nourishing, real food diet look like that
our ancestors ate, and also a diet that promotes fertility, which you all know that I am on
my own fertility journey,
hoping to get pregnant later this year.
And so we talked about what foods I should be eating
that will promote fertility and hopefully a healthy pregnancy.
We also talk about baby formula.
I do want to say, I said this in the podcast,
I want to reiterate this again,
I know the topic of baby formula and breastfeeding
is a really sensitive topic, and I know it's extra sensitive
when it's a woman who doesn't have experience breastfeeding
and being pregnant yet.
I get a lot of heat about that from women who have gone
through the experience, and I know, and I want to recognize
that obviously I have not been through that yet, and I recognize that there are things ahead of me
that I will not be able to predict,
and I have no idea how I'm going to handle it when I'm in that moment.
But I do just want to remind you that try not to take on any guilt or shame
with the information that you hear in this podcast.
If you are a mom and you're past the breastfeeding formula phase
and maybe you did things that you wish that you could change now.
Look, at the end of the day,
we're all doing the best that we can
with the information that we have at the time.
And when we know better, we do better.
And I believe that this information can help a lot of women,
including myself, who have not been down this road yet,
who have not been down this path.
And if I can help any moms going down that path
and give them as many resources as possible
to have a healthy pregnancy, to have a healthy baby,
to navigate if they're unable to breastfeed.
And also, to be honest,
I want to be a proponent for breastfeeding if you can.
Because I think it's the healthiest thing that we can do for our babies,
and if we can.
It was an incredible episode. I learned things that I had never heard before,
and she's just an amazing woman,
and I'm totally in awe of all the work that she's done,
and I just think she's incredible.
So I hope that you love the episode.
If you want to take a moment to rate and review it,
it means so much to me.
It also really helps the show.
And if you're loving this particular episode,
if you want to tag me on Instagram,
at realfoodology,
I try to get to all of your messages. I see most of them and I just want to say thank you so much
for the support.
I love you guys and I hope you enjoy the episode.
Thank you.
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Sally, thank you so much for taking the trip to come up and talk to me today.
Oh, you're so welcome.
I'm so happy to be here.
Oh, good.
I'm so excited.
So I was telling you before we started recording that I, I'm so excited. So I was telling you before we started recording that I'm so blown away that I'm sitting here right now talking to you,
because I read one of your books as required reading
in one of my nutrition classes around, it was seven or eight years ago now.
And I'm so grateful for the work that you've done.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So I'm curious, before I start getting into all the questions,
how did you get into all of this,
and how did you get to a place
where you wrote a book called Nourishing Traditions?
How did you come to all that?
BD Yeah, I don't know.
It just sort of happened.
I feel like the universe is kind of tugging on me.
You need to go this direction.
So I got this idea to write a cookbook
putting Dr. Price's, Weston Price's discoveries So I got this idea to write a cookbook,
putting Dr. Price's, Weston Price's discoveries into practical form for the American audience.
And I had never written a book. I didn't know what I was doing.
My kids, oh yeah, mom's writing a book.
But I just persevered and felt that I should continue this. And of course, couldn't find a publisher.
I had to self-publish.
Wow.
Is that because they didn't like what you were writing?
Yes.
In fact, my co-author, Mary Enoch,
had been told by someone in the publishing world
that we won't publish a book that doesn't promote canola oil.
That's what she was told.
Oh my god.
I can't believe that.
And I have a box of rejection slips, but a lot of them were very nice saying, gosh, this
sounds so interesting, but we can't publish it.
Well, I'm up to 850,000 books now.
And even my kids say, you know, mom, you actually did it.
So you did it. So it started off very slowly and I didn't know about marketing,
I didn't know what I was doing, but it was definitely word of mouth
that spread the idea about the book.
Yeah, well, and then there's people like me now
that are taking nutrition courses.
I got my Master's of Science in Nutrition,
and one of my classes, actually, I think,
now looking back, I think I had two classes
that it was required reading, and they would have us
read different chapters.
And back then, I was pretty well-versed in real food,
so I created my brand called Real Foodology,
because I felt like the basis of all of everything
I was talking about was real food. Right.
And when I read your book, you put a couple things on the map for me,
things like bone broth, I remember.
You had a whole chapter about how nourishing it is.
And I want to dive into that too, but you were the first person
that really put that on the map for me.
And the way that you wrote in that book, it really spoke to me
because it goes back to our really primal, innate,
what we know to be true about health
and what we should be eating.
And you just did a wonderful job
with writing all that out in her book.
Thank you.
Well, my mother was from the South
and the Southerners were still making chicken broth,
even back then.
So she made chicken broth
and she talked about how good it was for you
and it was good for your skin, and it helped you sleep.
So that's where that came from.
You know what, you just reminded me, too.
So there's a little story that you tell,
or I don't even know if it was a story,
but you were explaining why mothers give their children chicken soup
when they're sick.
And I still tell this to this day to my friends.
I think I've maybe even shared it on the podcast before.
Will you share that with the audience?
Why is that a tradition that when you're sick,
they give you chicken noodle soup?
Well, I don't know why they had that tradition,
but what I love about these traditions
is that they're validated by science.
And if a nourishing tradition is validated by science,
we can pretty much count on that.
So we know there's a lot of glycine in chicken soup,
and that's very important for detoxification.
It supports the liver and detoxification.
And that's what getting sick is.
It's a detoxifying process.
It's not something we should fight.
We should kind of go through it.
But the chicken broth really supports that process that's going on in your body. we should kind of go through it.
So all of the amino acids that you need for healthy joints and healthy bones are there in the chicken soup.
OK, and yeah, there was another piece of it, too,
that I thought I remember reading in your book,
that the minerals in the bones go into the broth?
Was that...
Yes, they do, although we were disappointed to find out
that there was very little calcium in the broth.
So what's in the collagen and the connective tissue is not bone,
it's connective tissue, and there's not a lot of calcium there.
But there were a lot of other minerals, for sure.
OK, well, still, I mean, that's amazing to know,
and I just thought it was an interesting thing that I read in your book,
and I told a lot of people about it.
OK, so I want to talk about baby formula
because this is a really hot topic right now.
Yes, it is.
And there's a lot of people arguing back and forth about this.
And there's also, I have a lot of concern
because out of all of the conventional formulas
on the market on the shelves,
you can't find a single one that doesn't have canola oil,
safflower oil, sunflower oil, one of those.
What is your biggest issue with the formula that's available right now?
Or all of your issues?
DL If you go out and buy what they call a milk substitute for animals,
for cows or goats or whatever,
the third ingredient in that formula is animal fat.
It says that right there on the label.
One, two, three is animal fat.
And that's because the vets know that these animals
will not grow normally if they don't get animal fat.
The growth in mammals, and that includes human mammals,
requires cholesterol and vitamin A,
and you get that from animal fats.
Now, there is no cholesterol in human baby formula.
There's no animal fat in baby formula.
And this is just the time when babies need that cholesterol.
Mother's milk is very rich in cholesterol
and contains special enzymes to ensure that 100 percent of that cholesterol will be absorbed.
The baby can't make cholesterol, and the baby can't make vitamin A either.
And these are the two critical vitamins for lots of things,
but mainly for hormone production.
Now, we think babies don't produce hormones, but they do.
And the testosterone levels in a little boy
are supposed to be, for the first six months of life,
as high as those of an adult male.
They're just as high as a man, okay?
But if the baby can't make that testosterone, he won't make it.
And that six months of testosterone
primes the baby boy to express male characteristics at puberty.
If he's getting formula, this is much less likely to happen.
Why doesn't the formula industry put whole milk into the formulas?
They're all made with skim milk and vegetable oils.
Why don't they do that?
And they vowed they will never do this.
Because they don't want to waste the butterfat
by giving it to babies,
when they can get five times more for that butterfat
by putting it into ice cream.
So our nutrition decisions are being made by accountants.
They're not being made by people who care for babies.
And something about cholesterol, too,
because I think this is important to note, because
we vilify cholesterol like crazy.
We need cholesterol in order to create testosterone and make testosterone, so that's why they
need it.
And estrogen.
Yeah, and it's also really good for the brain.
It's essential for the brain.
It's essential for the digestive tract.
You need a lot of cholesterol in the cells lining the digestive tract. And babies, you know, they're very,
their digestive apparatus is just getting started,
and they can't make a lot of these things.
That's why they're in the milk,
and that's why cholesterol is in the milk.
There's a reason for it.
And so when you do skim milk,
it's not going to have as much cholesterol in it?
It has no cholesterol in it. So we're giving babies skim milk, it's not going to have as much cholesterol in it. BD It has no cholesterol in it. OK.
So we're giving babies skim milk, vegetable oils,
and the wrong kind of sugar,
and a lot of artificial vitamins,
and no wonder we're getting stupider,
no wonder we have widespread digestive problems in our children.
And we're also dealing with infertility like crazy.
Exactly.
My generation, it's also something I want to talk about is with my generation,
I mean, women are.
They're crying to get pregnant.
Crying and trying to get pregnant.
I mean, I have so many friends that are going through IVF right now and they're early 30s.
Yeah, I know it's sad.
We've had many gals now see the female can kind of recoup more than a male can,
and we have so many gals who've gotten pregnant by getting on our diet.
Raw milk, egg yolks, butter, lots of butter, cod liver oil, they get pregnant.
But nobody's telling them this.
There's a lot more money in IVF than in healthy women.
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Why do foods like that promote fertility? while supplies last.
Why do foods like that promote fertility?
Because largely those foods have been demonized.
All the foods we need for fertility have been demonized.
All the foods that traditional people that Dr. Price studied and lots of seafood as well. There's no money in them, you know?
There's a lot of money in processed food,
and they don't want to use expensive ingredients
in processed food, so they use seed oils, sweeteners.
Yeah.
They use a lot of things that we're subsidizing
with farmers, too.
And so that's why it's cheap, and we have a lot of it,
and it's super accessible.
And it would be so easy for us to subsidize butter.
Do we really want to have a healthy, prosperous, robust nation?
We should be subsidizing butter.
And we should be warning people, especially moms,
against low-fat foods, skim milk, all this kind of skinless chicken breast.
That's one of my big peeps.
I have such beef with this because I'm sure you know about this,
but there was that study that was done in the 1970s
with these Harvard scientists,
and they got wind that it was sugar
that was actually leading to heart disease and heart attacks.
And the sugar industry, this sounds like conspiracy,
but it is literally true.
NPR wrote a piece about this.
They got, the sugar industry got wind of this study
and the results that they were going to publish.
So they pay these Harvard scientists off
and it wasn't even that much money.
It was like the equivalent of like $50,000 this, you know,
in 2025 to say that it was fat instead of sugar.
Yes.
And then this was around the time when I was young,
I was probably maybe, well, the 1970s, I was not born yet.
But I remember there was Q, the low-fat diet,
when I was young, because all my mom's friends remember
were eating those snackwell cookies.
Do you remember those, the low-fat?
No, no, no. God, and then it's still to this day. People are terrified of fat. my mom's friends remember were eating those snack well cookies.
Do you remember those?
And then it's still to this day, people are terrified of fat.
Well, there was a study in the early 2000s, the man was named Chavarro,
he was at Harvard and he wasfat dairy products, they got pregnant.
Wow.
Have you heard about this study?
No.
Has it been published?
Has your infertility doctor told you about this study?
No.
And then they said,
well, if you got pregnant on a full-fat diet,
when you get pregnant, you can go back to your low-fat diet.
Why would we do that?
Don't you think that the same diet that helps you get pregnant
would be the diet that helps you stay pregnant
and develops a healthy child?
Not only that, but anything that promotes fertility, in my mind,
means overall well-being and vitality in your body,
because your fertility is a marker of where your overall health is.
Absolutely, and that's what the study showed,
but who knows about this study?
Except us. I know, and it's so maddening.
So let's clear this up for the audience.
Eating fat is healthy for you, and does it make you fat?
Animal fat actually helps you keep the weight off.
It normalizes your fat.
If you're too thin, it'll make you a little heavier.
But animal fat supports thyroid function.
That's really important to know.
Butter is the most healthy food that you can eat for your thyroid gland because it contains
vitamin A, which you can't make thyroid hormones without vitamin A, and it contains iodine
and it contains butyric acid, which is something else important for thyroid function.
And butter will help you keep the weight off.
S1 That's really interesting.
There was a, I don't think it was an actual study,
but there was something that was reported that has been recirculating recently,
and we actually read this in one of my nutrition classes when I was in school.
There was a farmer that tried to fatten up his pigs with coconut oil.
Do you know about this?
DL. Well, it was actually a USDA study.
S. It was.
DL. Yes, and they didn't publish it,
but my colleague, Mary Annick, knew about this.
They were looking at how to fatten pigs.
If you gave them whole milk, they wouldn't get fat.
If you gave them coconut oil, they wouldn't get fat.
If you gave them butter, they wouldn't get fat. But if you gave them skim, they wouldn't get fat. If you gave them coconut oil, they wouldn't get fat.
If you gave them butter, they wouldn't get fat.
But if you gave them skim milk, they would get fat.
And canola oil.
Oh, is that right?
Well, there you go.
And the pig is very much like the human being.
It's an omnivore.
We have very similar digestive tracts.
Isn't that so fascinating?
So in the old days, what they did with milk
is they made cream, butter, and cheese.
They didn't want the skim milk.
They knew it was garbage.
And that was given to the pigs.
The way from making cheese and the skim milk was given to the pigs, and that fattened the pigs.
So it was a nice synergy all on the same farm.
Now we've got the pigs in South Carolina and the dairy cows in Wisconsin,
and you can't do that.
Oh, that's so sad.
I hope that, I hope there's a world
in which we can get back to.
To real farming and support of real farming.
The problem is that they would deny this,
but the Department of Agriculture
actually follows a Marxist agenda of industrial farms.
And they would say, oh no, it's just efficiency.
But it's not more efficient, it's just what Karl Marx wanted, the big industrial farms.
Animals as units of production.
And they sneer at small farms.
Oh, these are just like museums.
Okay, we can have a few of them so you can see what it's like, but we can't feed the world at small farms. Oh, these are just like museums. Okay, we can have a few of them
so you can see what it's like,
but we can't feed the world with small farms.
We can feed the world with small farms.
And that's where we need to put our support.
But I don't think that's gonna happen
with the mindset of the Department of Agriculture.
Their mindset is sell grain.
That's what we're here to do, sell grain, sell grain.
So they want you to grain feed your animals.
They don't want you to pasture feed your animals.
And they don't want you to give skim milk to your pigs.
They want you to give grain to your pigs.
And they want to give you all of the leftover remnants
of whatever is coming out of the industrial food
out of all the factories.
They want to give all the remnants of that
to the livestock animals.
Yeah, they give it to the cows.
So the cows get potato chips.
I saw they also get candy bars and expired bread
that they pull off the shelf.
I mean, it's really sickening what's happening right now.
I'm really tired of this narrative that we have to feed the world.
Well, there's a surplus of food here.
What we need to do is even out the food production,
keep it local so you aren't dependent on the big transportation train.
But that's everywhere they go, they push industrial agriculture
at the expense of local farms.
Would it be possible if we were to go back to smaller, more local farms. Would it be possible, if we were to go back to smaller, more local farms,
to not only make sure that we fed our local communities,
but is there a world in which we could appease the government
and feed the world in that system
while also doing the smaller local farms, or is that just not possible?
Well, we can feed the world with small farms.
We're not feeding people now, they're starving.
That's why they eat so much. You know?
Exactly, they're nutritionally deprived.
Yes, so, but in quantity as well as quality,
we can feed the world with small farms.
I want to go back to baby formula for a second,
because I don't want to leave the mothers listening hanging.
Because I'm sure they're listening to this.
And my audience is very smart and they keep up with all this.
So a lot of them, this is not new information,
but I think the cholesterol thing might be new to them., so a lot of them, this is not new information,
but I think the cholesterol thing might be new to them.
Because not a lot of people are talking about that.
DL And the fact that these little boys
have such high levels of testosterone, they're supposed to.
I said that the other day at one of these discussion luncheons,
and people were shocked, they didn't know it.
CA It explains somewhat of what's going on right now.
I think there's a lot of different things going on.
There's also astrazine.
Yeah, all of the pesticides and plastics and things,
of course they are a factor.
But the biggest factor is that we're not feeding these babies right,
starting from the womb to, well, all through their growth period.
And does breast milk contain, it contains cholesterol, right? It's very high in cholesterol, to all through their growth period.
And does breast milk contain, it contains cholesterol, right?
It's very high in cholesterol and it contains enzymes that ensure that the baby absorbs all the cholesterol.
So I would argue that, well, this just doesn't even need to be said.
When I hopefully become a mom, I am going to fight tooth and nail to breastfeed and I really pray and hope that I don't have a problem with it.
I also want to be sensitive and acknowledge that some women really struggle with it.
I think it's a lower percentage than we've been told.
I think a lot of women want to go back to work sooner or it's a really hard job and
they don't want to do it anymore.
And I say this just point blank fact, I'm not placing judgment.
I am totally a firm believer and you do whatever is best for you. and I say this just point blank fact,
I'm not placing judgment.
I just want women to have full informed consent
because I think women are being told that formula is exactly
the same as breast milk, we're also hearing, fed is best, which really bothers me.
Because there's this narrative they say now, anytime you try to talk about formula
and say that breast milk is better for you, they say, well, fed, a fed baby is best.
And I always say, fed is the bare minimum.
Yeah, just keeps them from crying.
Bare minimum here. And do we want the bare minimum for our children?
Because I want my child to be thriving. from crying. and my daughter-in-law, she's just a wonderful girl
and big breastfeeding advocate, and she's struggling.
She had to supplement, and she's supplementing with our baby formula,
which the recipes in Nourishing Traditions and on our website,
and I would say that at least, that thousands of babies have had this formula.
And it's based on the next best thing to mother's milk,
which is raw milk from another species.
And that's what people did all over the world
for thousands and thousands of years.
So it's based on raw milk and we add things to it
that bring it more in line with what's in human milk.
We add extra whey, human milk is very high in whey.
We add cod liver oil.
We add some cream because mother's milk tends to be higher
in fat than cow's milk.
And the babies just thrive on it.
And this formula has been a lifesaver.
And it's also been a lightning rod
because we've been heavily criticized
for promoting raw milk for babies.
Well, breast milk is raw milk.
Yeah.
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The criticism for raw milk is really interesting to me because all of our ancestors drank raw milk.
They did, yes.
We've been drinking raw milk as a species since the dawn of time.
They weren't drinking raw milk from confinement dairy,
so they always picked the best cow and put her on grass,
and that's the milk they used for their babies.
Yeah.
And that's the thing, with a lot of this stuff in nutrition,
there's always going to be caveats, right?
I mean, would I advocate for somebody to get raw milk from a factory farm?
No. In fact, I would argue that's incredibly dangerous.
And I would be with the anti-raw milk people on that team, on that part of it.
However...
But I will say, I will say, one of my boys, I couldn't get... Well, this is California, you could get raw milk, However.
But what people don't realize is that there are so many components in raw milk that they're anti-pathogenic.
In other words, they kill pathogens.
They keep you from absorbing these pathogens.
And because, you know, cows and goats are dirty and so are humans.
They once tested raw milk in a milk bank in China and the milk was loaded with pathogens. are dirty and so are humans.
vilifying pathogens.
And I know you talk about fermented foods in your book.
Not all pathogens are bad,
and I'm probably going to get heat for saying that.
BFL-Vilifying bacteria, yeah.
Not all bacteria are pathogens.
Well, yes, sorry.
I meant to say bacteria.
But what I'm saying, yeah, not all bacteria is bad for you,
in fact, we know that our gut is full of good and bad bacteria,
and we need both of those to live in symbiosis.
Well, the paradigm about bacteria has completely changed in the last 30 years. of good and bad bacteria, and we need both of those to live in symbiosis. And have a functioning system.
DL Well, the paradigm about bacteria has completely changed
in the last 30 years.
Thirty years ago, all bacteria were bad,
the human body is sterile,
and bacteria attack us and make us sick.
And now we know that a healthy person
has up to six pounds of bacteria in their guts,
and these are, as you say, a symbiosis of good bacteria and some that are considered not so good.
But we need these in our digestive tract or we won't be healthy.
And all, literally all traditional cultures had fermented foods,
some really high fermented foods sometimes,
really stinky fermented foods.
And they ate them every day, really high fermented foods sometimes, really stinky fermented foods.
And they ate them every day,
and this replenished the bacteria in the gut.
Yeah, and so not all bacteria is bad.
And I get it, I actually just finished watching this show.
Have you ever watched Yellowstone or any other shows, like 1883?
No, no.
It was interesting because it really reminded me
of what humans have been through to get,
like our ancestors and what they went through to get to where we are today.
And it really did give me this perspective of, I felt a little bit more empathetic to
that narrative that we have now in 2025 because I get so frustrated when we're talking about
stuff like this because I feel like the conversation and the narrative
hasn't been updated to where we are, what we know now.
But I get it, because back then, when they were,
so the show 1883 is about them taking the Oregon Trail, essentially,
and traveling up through America.
And they were in covered wagons, and the smallest cut could kill you.
Yes, right, right.
And so it just gave me such a different perspective of,
okay, I understand why there's so much fear,
because not even that long ago,
something as simple as a cut
could just completely take you out.
Well, and also, our cities were absolutely filthy.
Yes.
They were up to your eyeballs in horse manure.
Yes. There were no sewers.
There's no good water.
And even the lakes or, you know, rivers they came across
had pathogens in them and they're trying to bathe in that
and then they could get an infection from that.
And we were dumping sewage in Lake Michigan, for example.
The water for Chicago came out of the same place
they were dumping the sewage.
So it took us a while to learn about sanitation.
And once you get a lot of people living together
who are not moving across the landscape,
then you really have to understand about sanitation
and take steps to protect yourselves.
Yes, so I, like you, I understand why people were afraid of germs.
Yeah.
Because they had too many germs, I guess.
But now we went too far in that direction,
and now we realize we let our kids play in the dirt
and we don't want to be too clean.
And why is this important?
Because I do think we kind of,
we had amnesia about this during COVID
because everybody was sanitizing everything to high hell.
Why is that important for our immune systems?
Because I guess there's a lot of discussion about this, but it kind of primes you,
gets your body used to dealing with all of these things. And also, many of them,
most of them were good for us.
I think it also doesn't it just make your immune system,
it's like a workout for your immune system.
Oh, I wanted to ask you about this, about baby formula.
I read recently that lobbyists for big formula are lobbying
against paid maternity leave so that women are forced into the workforce sooner
and made to rely on formula.
Why am I not surprised?
I'm not surprised by this either.
Yeah, I mean, this industry is so evil.
And all the push for breastfeeding has died back.
When my daughter-in-law was in the hospital with the baby,
they said, well, now we can give them some sugar water
or formula at night so you can sleep.
And my son, one of the things I said to him,
when you go to that hospital,
you do not take that baby out of your sight.
You have him in your eyes all the time.
So they take the baby to the nursery and he said,
you know, she had pumped milk for the baby, but everybody, all the other babies in the nursery were getting formula.
And this is so you can, we're helping you so you can sleep at night.
But I tell you, the hospitals are pushing formula.
They are.
Yeah.
They tried to stop that, you know, to make it illegal,
but they're pushing it.
I believe some of the hospitals have contracts with those companies, right?
Yeah.
Because I've also heard, I've had a lot of people write me on Instagram
saying that not only were they pushed formula on,
the formula was pushed on them in the hospital,
but many of them started getting samples in the mail.
That's HIPAA.
That's your privacy, right?
Yes.
They can't share with your next-door neighbor,
but they share with all the companies.
And how are they getting these addresses?
Is it through their doctor?
Yeah, it all goes into Big Data System,
and if you're selling formula or adult diapers or whatever,
they know which ones to send these to. I mean, it's insane. or adult diapers or whatever,
they know which ones to send these to.
I mean, it's insane.
Because I had some women write me saying,
they had just found out they were pregnant, This is all shared. Wow, that really should be illegal. If a woman is struggling to breastfeed,
your first thing would say, or you would tell them to make the formula, correct?
Well, first I would say, you know, keep trying.
Yeah.
But the baby has to be fed, of course.
You don't have much time.
So I would make the formula and give it with something called the lactate,
which is you put the formula in this little bag
and the baby takes the formula through a tube while he's breastfeeding.
So you're still getting the stimulation of the breast.
And a lot of times you only need to do that for a few weeks
and then you don't need that anymore.
Okay, interesting.
And I want to ask you too, because—
Are women told this?
No.
Even if you're giving formula, you should be giving it in this way so that you're still
breastfeeding.
I've heard this, because I've had women tell me before that they, for whatever reason,
they thought that they could just give them formula for a day or two, because something
happened or whatever.
And then they stopped lactating.
And then they stopped making the milk.
You have to have that constant stimulation.
And this is a wonderful little gadget.
Again, nobody tells you about it.
I was very fortunate to have a pediatrician who did tell me about it,
so I could keep nursing while I was giving the formula.
That's amazing.
I think a lot of women don't know that.
There's a lot that women are not told.
Yes, exactly.
And it's really frustrating.
Well, I do have a book called
The Nourishing Traditions of Baby and Child Care.
And so it's all in there.
Yes, highly recommend anyone listening,
if you're a mom, if you plan to be a mom,
or if you're a dad too, buy it and read it and check out,
because there's a lot of amazing information in there.
So I mentioned this earlier, but I want to dive a little bit further into it
because this is also not told, I think, to a lot of women.
I think there's a couple different reasons why.
What are the main reasons that women do you think are struggling more with breastfeeding now?
Well, one could be thyroid problems.
The thyroid is very much involved in milk production.
It could be other hormonal problems.
It could be their basic nutrition.
But a woman who's struggling, she might want to take some
desticated thyroid, that might help.
You know, up the fat-soluble vitamins, up the butter,
get all these good fats to help you produce milk.
OK.
Do you think the lactation cookies and recipes that people make,
does that help with milk supply?
I don't know what they are, but there's also galactagogues.
I love that word.
Galactagogues are herbs that help you produce more milk.
OK, amazing.
Quite a few of them.
I've also been heard, too, that sometimes people will not be aware that their kid has a tongue
tie and that can affect.
You know, I never heard about tongue tie when I was having my babies.
Nobody had tongue tie.
I don't know what's going on here.
It's like the tongue is not fully developed or fully separated from the floor of the mouth.
We did do an article about tongue tie
in the Weston Price Foundation Journal.
There's a big question of whether to cut or not to cut.
Yeah.
Don't have easy answers on this.
Yeah.
I wonder, and this is just theoretical and just where my brain went,
I'm wondering if that's happening because we're not as nourished as we once were. It could be, yes. It could be.
And we're not giving the babies the building blocks to do everything it needs to do.
You know, it's interesting. The baby's hand starts out as a paddle,
and then the fingers separate.
And what causes the fingers to separate is testosterone.
So possibly if a mother is in a too estrogenated environment,
the tongue is just not going to separate.
That's really interesting.
That's just a theory.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to explore all of this, right?
I mean, we have to ask questions, right?
And go down every avenue.
But I think the diagnosis of tongue tie is given kind of glibly, you know, it must be tongue tie, and go down every avenue.
But I think the diagnosis of tongue tie is given kind of glibly,
or it must be tongue tie, and not necessarily so.
There was also another thing that I heard that I like to share this every opportunity that I can,
because I heard this from a guest of mine a couple years ago, and I was horrified because I'd never heard this. If you do not explicitly say, if you decide to get an epidural
and if you don't say that you don't want the fentanyl in it,
they give you fentanyl in there and they don't tell you.
Did you know this?
I did not know this.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.
I was horrified.
I had a guest on my podcast that told me,
and I've since confirmed it with several people.
She was.
So if you, and you can request to not get it.
And I don't understand why they're doing this.
I know, I don't understand either. to not get it.
I know, I don't understand either.
And then get this, so then the babies are coming out
and they're a little messed up on the fentanyl
and they're not latching right away. or, oh my gosh, there's something wrong with my kid
They didn't tell her that it was from the fentanyl. because nobody told her to also, what do you call that, pump?
By the way, the breast pumps today are great.
They've been much improved and you can pump and give your milk to a premature baby.
There's no reason why you can't give them formula.
I have a friend that had a really cool mobile one that she would just put in her bra. And then it would sit in her bra, which was really cool.
Yeah, they've done a lot of amazing things with all of that,
which is cool.
And I really have to take my hat off to moms who do this,
who understand how important it is.
You know, there's this saying, food before one is just for fun.
It's just that it's just so wrong.
Food before one, everything about their future life depends on it.
Say that again, because I've never heard that.
Well, that comes from the baby-led weaning folks, which I'm extremely opposed to.
Food before one is just for fun.
And, you know, baby's weaning foods, that's a very important choice you're going to make.
These need to be very nutrient-dense, high-cholesterol foods.
We recommend egg yolks and pureed liver as the first weaning foods for baby, because
baby will get everything she needs from those two foods.
And you put salt in these foods. Another big problem we're having is the pregnant moms
are not getting enough salt,
the nursing moms are not getting enough salt.
Salt is essential.
It's essential for just everything, digestion, the brain.
For the electrolyte balance, sodium, potassium.
So I have to tell you a funny story.
My husband, this is a while back, was in the hospital
and in the hospital they give you saline.
That's the best thing about a hospital, is you get the saline drip
and you might get as much as 10 teaspoons of salt per day in that drip
and it helps you.
The recovering body needs salt.
And then when you leave the hospital,
they tell you to go on a low-salt diet.
Like, we want to see you back real soon, OK?
Yeah, exactly.
See, one of the very good things about living in the modern world
is that everybody has access to salt, and it's cheap.
Now, it might not be exactly the right kind of salt,
we recommend unrefined salt.
But everybody has salt today.
Of course, they're trying to get people not to eat salt.
But you absolutely need a teaspoon and a half of salt per day.
And in 1900, people ate three teaspoons of salt per day.
And they didn't have heart attacks and stuff like that.
So we need salt.
We shouldn't cut back on salt.
I actually have salt in my water here right now.
Yeah, I do too.
I love that.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Fun fact, if you're not eating a ton of fast food
or eating out a bunch or eating a bunch of processed packaged foods,
you're actually probably not getting enough salt.
And this is why people crave, we call them the pornographic foods, you're actually probably not getting enough salt. That's true. And this is why people crave, we call them the pornographic foods, because they're on
the puritanical diet and not eating enough salt.
And then they go right into the arms of the pornographic foods.
Oh, God.
So why not just this pure wholesome diet that contains salt and fats and all the things
that satisfy us, and then we wouldn't then you just don't want that junk food.
Yep.
So we talked a little bit about introducing foods to babies.
When and what age?
I actually just had somebody DM me about this.
OK, it's a big debate about this, and I've written about it.
So people have studied when weaning foods come in,
and it's anywhere from one to six months.
Even at one month, some cultures do this.
No culture does exclusive breastfeeding after six months.
And there is a reason for this.
Breast milk is not very high in iron
and cannot satisfy the baby's requirements for iron
after six months, and the baby will become anemic.
And you don't want your child to be anemic.
That's not a good thing.
And babies who are an who want to be heroes
and exclusive breastfeeding, but it's not a good idea.
So you start anywhere from four to six months.
If it's a very robust, hungry baby, you can start at four months.
But by six months, they need that egg yolk.
S.E.R.S.
So, OK, by six months, give them the egg yolk and the liver. Yes. So, OK, by six months, give them the egg yolk and the liver.
Yes.
And I would assume you just want to chop it up really well and make it almost into like a...
You puree.
OK, yeah.
Now, the baby-led weaning, and I have to say, moms, please do not use that book.
It is a horrible book.
And they say, well, you don't have to make purees.
You do have to make purees. You either make purees or you chew the food, which is what traditional moms did. book and they say,
Or I'm assuming if people are not making their own purees, they're buying the Gerbers or the, I know.
Tell us why not do that.
The baby food today, I mean in the old days you could buy egg yolks and liver and meat and things like gizzards pureed in jars.
And that's what we need to go back to. the baby food companies to do this. Because let's face it, not all moms have the resources to puree or the time.
But what are our babies getting?
They're getting basically fruit
either cooked in plastic or aluminum.
And this is high sugar.
It's just like giving them sugar cubes,
but with the additional aluminum and plastic.
And glyphosate. And a lot of those baby foods are coming back really high in microplastics, sugar cubes, but with the additional aluminum and plastic.
And glyphosate, and a lot of those baby foods are coming back really high in microplastics,
which I think you might have just said the plastics, and also heavy metals, which is really concerning.
It's horrible the way we think we should be feeding our children.
And we're reaping the whirlwind. These children are so unhealthy.
You know what my mom used to do with my little brother?
We were 10 years apart, so I actually remember this.
When I was little, she would puree his food and then she would make a huge batch of different flavors and she would put them in ice cubes and freeze them.
I did that. Yeah. My mom was amazing. She made everything from scratch for us. Yeah. It was pretty cool.
You're very lucky to have a mom like that.
I'm very grateful.
So what would be the first,
so the first food would be to introduce them, egg yolks and liver.
Yes.
And what would be some other foods that would be really good,
maybe like avocado?
I'm not actually a particularly big fan of avocados for babies.
There's, they're pretty high in, what's that? I'm not actually a particularly big fan of avocados for babies.
What's that?
What's the thing in spinach?
You can do mashed banana, add some cream to the mashed banana, a little salt.
Oh, your baby will just love that. to the mash, put down a little salt.
breastfeeding, you give them raw milk.
Good for you. But the proteins in milk are very fragile.
They kind of get untwisted and warped.
And the body says, oh, this is a foreign protein.
It has to mount an immune response.
And they basically have reactions to these proteins.
And sometimes anaphylactic shock.
One of the things they don't tell you is there's between 20 and 30 deaths.
This is not illnesses.
Deaths from anaphylactic shock to pasteurized milk per year.
I never knew that.
Yes. And there's no deaths from raw milk.
They say there's been three deaths in the last 30 years, but they're making these up.
We know that there weren't any deaths.
But also, I would argue three deaths in the last 30 years
is a pretty decent track record.
Every human life matters.
Compared to 20 to 30 deaths per year from anaphylactic shock.
Exactly.
And so what's happening is the consumption of pasteurized milk
is relentlessly declining.
It gives the kids a stomach ache, so the parents don't give it to them.
And you wouldn't either, of course.
And then they find out that the babies can tolerate raw milk.
The children love it.
They digest it.
They calm down.
They're fun to be with.
They're not having temper tantrums all the time.
And once a parent learns this, no government official is going to dissuade him.
Yeah.
Is it true that most of us are not actually lactose intolerant? And once a parent learns this, no government official is going to dissuade him. Yeah.
Is it true that most of us are not actually lactose intolerant?
We're just not consuming the right type of milk?
Yeah, I would say we're pasteurization intolerant
because we can't tolerate these warped proteins.
It's really interesting.
And you know, pasteurized milk today, in the old days it was 160 degrees.
Today it's 284 degrees.
That's above the boiling point.
You can't do that in your own kitchen, on your stove.
You can't get the milk that hot.
But they rush it past superheated stainless steel plates.
So it's an extremely violent process
and very high temperatures.
One of the things they don't tell you
is that the largest outbreak of foodborne illness
in human history was from pasteurized milk.
Really?
When was that?
In the 1980s, mid-1980s, about 200,000 people became sick and there were some deaths.
And that was when they were consolidating the dairies
and confinement dairying.
And so what did they do?
They didn't go cleaner, they went hotter.
They thought, well, we'll solve this by going hotter because pasteurization is not enough. and I want to talk about fat.
along with all the sugar and the antifreeze
and all the stuff that's in ice cream.
Or they're getting margarine and they're not even getting real butter.
Yeah, or spreads.
People don't eat margarine anymore, they don't admit to it,
but they eat the spreads, the healthy spreads.
Which, in my opinion, is basically margarine.
It is margarine, yeah.
But it's just a new branding of margarine.
So what are some common myths about fats?
Well, fats make you fat. And when you look at these traditional cultures,
let's look at the Eskimo, that's always what comes to mind.
Their diet is 80 percent of calories are fat.
They couldn't survive without that fat.
They're very slender people.
They look chunky because they're wearing a lot of clothes.
But they're slender people.
And even if you go down to something like the tropics, one of the most prized foods was the pig fat.
And they saved all the pig fat and cooked it with the meat.
And they put the fat in these kind of tubs made of banana leaves,
but they saved all the fat.
Australian Aborigines, they hunted animals at the time of the year
when they'd be fattest. And if an animal wasn't fat, it was rubbish,
and they threw it away.
They wouldn't even eat the protein?
No, they would just throw it away.
It's no good.
Because they understood that if you ate protein without fat,
it would be bad for you.
And there is a real scientific explanation for this.
When we eat fat, the liver releases vitamin A,
because we releases vitamin A
because we need vitamin A to use the fat.
And so, if you're just eating lean meat,
you rapidly deplete your body of vitamin A,
and then you really get sick.
They call that rabbit starvation or rabbit hunger.
So they always ate the meat with the fat.
And that's what we don't do.
So we throw the skin away from the chicken
or cut all the fat off the meat.
You can't even get a good steak anymore
because they cut the fat off.
Yeah.
Or if you get the fat, it's usually grain fed and it's not.
Well, that's better than no fat.
Definitely better than no fat. But yeah, we want grass fed animals. and it's not?
Goose fat is our best source of vitamin K,
which we now know was Dr. Price's X factor.
It's a very important vitamin
for putting calcium and phosphorus in your bones and teeth
and keeping it out of your soft tissue, like your arteries.
And the best source of that is goose fat.
And I have a dear friend,
very beautiful friend who grew up in Denmark, and she said, oh yeah, we ate goose fat on our toast.
We spread our toast with goose fat.
Or could be duck fat.
I've never tried it.
Oh, OK, you haven't tried it.
Or it could be duck fat.
Or chicken fat.
And we should not be taking the skin off the chicken.
We should be eating the skin.
And then you take the fat that goes into the pan
and make gravy out of it with your broth.
And that's a delicious, healthy meal.
Yeah.
Oh, this is making me hungry.
Do you like beef tallow?
We're just talking about beef tallow.
There's a chain, I think it's called steak and shake.
I actually just posted about this today. Yeah, and they've switched back to tallow. I think it's called steak and shake.
And they've switched back to tallow.
But we're, insider scoop is that they are not using 100% beef tallow.
I'll show you the photo afterwards.
I posted it on my Instagram and apparently it has BHT and TBHQ in it.
This is fine oil. And that's because the soybean industry has created this whole thing about monkeys and jungles and stuff.
OK, so is that not true?
Because I was just about to say...
I don't know if it's true,
but any agriculture is going to displace animals.
Mm-hmm.
That is true.
Well, because any time I've posted about palm oil,
I get an uproar back,
the jungles were concerned
about the rainforest and I'm not throwing shade,
I just, a lot of people talk about it.
Well, do you want people in Africa to farm or do they want them to import soybeans from the US?
Because if they're farming in Africa, they're getting rid of the elephants, but they get rid of some of them. Yeah. I mean, there's always going to be death,
and no matter what farming situation you're in,
it's just a civil life.
They reckon that for every acre of grain
that's cultivated in the United States,
300 animals are killed.
Oh, it's so heartbreaking.
It makes me sad.
So you can't farm without creating death.
But that's exactly, that's it.
That's why, in my opinion, the vegan diet is a fallacy, because there's death no matter what. Exactly. without creating death.
horrible ways to, yeah. What are your thoughts on the various dietary trends
in this healthy world?
So there's keto, paleo, where does this traditional foods
approach fit into this modern dietary?
My big concern about these high meat diets
and even the Atkins diet is that they don't have enough fat.
Yeah.
And they're eating 30 to 40 percent of calories as protein,
and no human diet was like that.
They were no more than 20 percent of calories as protein.
So these diets really need more fat.
They need some carbs. You do need carbs.
You need at least 50 grams of carbs per day
for your thyroid gland to work.
So these are kind of artificial diets.
And I challenge you to raise a child on one of these diets
because they will rebel.
If you raise a child on really delicious food
and give them mashed potatoes and put butter on their carrots
and make gravy, they'll eat that food.
So I always say that the test of whether a diet is healthy is, will your children eat
it?
And eat it in the face and the teeth of all this processed food out there.
Another thing that very much concerns me is the use of protein powders, protein shakes
and oh, we need more protein.
No, we don we need more protein.
No, we don't need more protein.
These diets are very hard on the kidneys and very depleting of vitamin A.
I think we're getting too much protein, actually.
Such an emphasis on it. most Americans was scared of fat when I was younger
because I thought it was going to make me fat.
And then when I realized that it was actually really good for me
and healthy for me, there was kind of this journey of me learning,
oh, I should actually be eating way more of it, like butter and tallow and olive oil and avocados. Although the avocados. It's not that I don't eat avocados. I'm not sure it's the best food for babies.
Yeah, OK, that makes sense.
And that really changed everything for me,
because I started focusing, I started building my meals
specifically around meat and good, healthy fats first,
and then I would build in the vegetables and whatever else.
And carbs, it's OK.
And I think that's good news for most people.
You don't have to have a weird diet, kind of a manufactured diet.
In my case, my problem was hypoglycemia.
I'd get these blood sugar crashes, and of course I ate a lot of sugar when I was a kid,
and I'd get these blood sugar crashes where you're ravenously hungry and you have allergies. I was a kid.
Every meal, I wouldn't get low blood sugar.
So to me, it was just survival that I had to eat these fats.
And they taste so good.
They do, yeah.
And they keep you full for a long time.
I don't really snack anymore.
And in spite of a lot of mistakes I made in my diet,
I never had a problem getting pregnant.
Mmm.
This is amazing.
I'm getting married in June,
and I'm hoping to get pregnant very soon afterwards.
So this is, this episode is very timely.
You're, you both need to eat these good fats.
Yes.
Oh yeah.
He's on, I've completely uphauled his, his whole diet and he's eating very healthy now.
Oh, good.
And feeling good.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's exciting.
Lots of oysters.
Yes.
So, okay.
I thought this was kind of oysters. Yes. So, okay, I thought this was kind of interesting.
I've actually never done this before, but when I was preparing for this podcast, I put
in something in Grok, and Grok gave me back some questions that I think are really funny.
I don't want you to answer all these questions, but it was just, I talk a lot about the current I think you're really funny.
I don't want you to answer all these questions,
but I talk a lot about the current landscape that we're in right now
and how we're getting so much pushback.
There's this battle between the traditional allopathic conventionally trained doctors and RDS and scientists, and then there's the people in our world that come from the more, you know, we're looking to the past,
we're looking to the traditions, we're looking to go back
to the way that our ancestors ate.
And it was really interesting.
I wanted to just name some of these, and I'm curious
what you think about this and what you would say.
So one said,
isn't advocating for raw milk consumption irresponsible,
considering the health risks and legal bans in many places.
Well, let me say,
there is no law against purchase, possession or consumption of raw milk anywhere.
So you as a consumer are not breaking any laws.
Really? What about all the Amish that are getting their raw milk taken
and confiscated?
Well, it's not the drinkers that are getting it confiscated,
it's the people selling it.
So in some states there's laws against selling it to the public,
and that's what we're fighting against.
But there's no law against purchase, consumption, or possession of raw milk.
What does that tell you?
That tells you it's all about the economics, it's not about the health.
So what was the other part of it? It's not about the health.
So what was the other part?
The other thing is you have to realize the governments, the local governments, the departments of agriculture,
they are lying.
They exaggerate. an example. A few years ago we had a cow share program in Wisconsin, it was the first one,
and the Department of Agriculture hated it. And there was an outbreak of foodborne illness,
and some of the people who got the foodborne illness had drunk this raw milk, so they immediately
shut him down. But there were people who got sick who hadn't drunk his milk, and the people
who were customers did a little survey and they found out that 100% of the people who were customers did a little survey
and they found out that 100% of the people who got sick
had eaten at a local restaurant.
Wow. Okay.
So it was obviously the local restaurant,
but this is still in the books as something caused
by raw milk.
And there's lots of cases out there.
I mean, the first thing you need to do
when you have an outbreak of foodborne illness
is to test the water.
But they never do that.
If some of the people were drinking raw milk,
that's what they blame it on.
So you have to be very careful of the statistics they're using.
If they were...
I mean, we looked into all these reports,
and we found that 100% of them didn't show
that pasteurization would have solved the problem.
So, you have to be very careful.
They say there's been three deaths in the last,
I think it's 20 years.
But we know that, well, two of them,
we know there wasn't a death.
One of them was just made up.
Well, they're both made up,
and I don't know about this third one,
but these people are lying.
Yeah, and they're creating a lot of fear. And that's, of course, that's how they do it. That's how they control people, about this third one, but these people are lying.
And they're creating a lot of fear.
And that's of course how they do it.
That's how they control people, is they make them afraid.
Why do you think they're going so hard after raw milk? One is the dairy industry that has very narrow profit margins.
And they pay the farmers practically nothing for their milk.
The dairy farmer today gets the same price he got in World War II.
And they don't want to have to pay that farmer more, because that farmer can get $5 to $25 a gallon for his milk if he sells to the public.
And the dairy industry does not want to compete with that.
So that's one reason.
But I think the other is the grain industry because the raw milk is they're not using
a lot of grain.
They're pasture feeding and because it's less expensive for the farmer to do it that way.
So I also think it's the grain interests.
I wonder, too, if there's also some sort of pushback there
with the local farms,
because in my opinion and in my experience,
one, you can only really get raw milk from local farms.
And I also think, my opinion is that it's much safer
to get raw milk from somewhere that was close to you
versus having it shipped across the country.
Right, right.
And it kind of necessarily needs to be a local thing. versus having it shipped across the country. Right, right.
And it kind of necessarily needs to be a local thing.
I'm glad this is regulated on the state level and it is.
It's basically local farms. farmer. Yeah, we're not going to change this system through the government. I'm all for Bobby trying and we might make some changes, but this is going to change on the
grassroots level. Yeah, literally the grassroots level. Yeah, I love that. I mean, we're trying.
We're, I feel like a lot of people are waking up and we're all trying to demand better for our
food. Yes, and for our children. So what's another one of these? I mean, I just want to preface this by saying
that I was horrified by all of these,
and I don't agree with any of them.
Another one said,
in an era of climate change,
how can you justify promoting diets heavy in animal products
which have a significant environmental footprint?
I cannot, with that narrative,
that regenerative farming, we already know,
you need animals and regenerative farming,
and regenerative farming reduced the carbon footprint because it pulls the carbon out of the atmosphere
back into the soil.
Well, first question is, is there any climate, is there global warming?
There's climate change, yes, because the climate's always changing, it goes in cycles.
I mean, we had a warm spell in the medieval warm period, I think it was from 1100 to 1400,
where they had grapes in Denmark and cows in Greenland.
I think it'd be nice to go back to a warmer climate, frankly.
By the way, we do have more carbon dioxide in the air today,
a little more, and the plants are growing more.
We have more growth of plants today than we did 30 years ago.
Interesting, I haven't heard that.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
So, a little push for membership in the Weston A. Price Foundation.
If you had been getting our journal,
you would have read a series of wonderful articles
challenging the climate change narrative.
Okay, I need to read that.
I'm a huge fan of Weston A. Price and his work.
We studied some of it in school, too,
for people listening who are not aware of him and his work,
can you give just like a little synopsis?
Yes, so Weston Price, back in the 30s and 40s,
he studied traditional people, healthy people,
and what their diets were,
because he wanted to answer this question.
What is a healthy diet?
I mean, people today don't seem to know.
And that's where we get our principles that we teach. These diets were very rich in nutrients
that we get from organ meats and animal fats.
And everything they did in their diets
was aimed at maximizing the nutrients
and maximizing the assimilation of the nutrients from their foods.
So, for example, they didn't just eat wheat.
They soaked it or they made sourdough bread.
And these are processes that break down
all the harmful things in the grains
and that help us assimilate them,
the good things in the grains.
So the Weston A. Price Foundation is a membership foundation.
We publish a journal.
We have a huge website.
Please visit the website and get familiar with it, westonaprice.org. a huge website.
We set that up in 1999. At that time, there were probably 30 sources of raw milk in the whole country.
Now there's over 3,000.
There's an interactive map. You put your zip code in and you can find the raw milk near you.
And descriptions of the farms and what they did. We don't judge them, we just tell you this is what they do.
And when we started, there were 27 states that allowed the sale of raw milk in one form or another.
Now we're at 47.
So we just have three states to go.
What are the three states? I think we've got good legislation in Hawaii this year, and Nevada.
Those are the only three left.
CAITLIN I didn't know that you guys had that many states that were...
DR. CARDENAS-CHAFKIN Yeah, so we're almost there,
and then we want to, of course, liberalize things in a lot of states.
CAITLIN OK, I have one more question for you.
I just wanted to read, you don't need to answer this,
I just want to laugh at this,
because these questions were just,
it's just funny to me how backwards so much of our narrative is around nutrition.
So this one was talking about butter and it says,
do you think promoting high-fat diets is reckless in an obesity epidemic?
Which is so funny because we know already that butter doesn't make you fat.
Well, yes, butter consumption has gone down,
obesity, heart disease and cancer have gone up. So it can't be butter causing these things.
Yeah. In fact, I think low-fat diets actually promote obesity.
Yes, they do, because you're hungry all the time.
Exactly.
And you compensate by eating a lot of carbs and a lot of seed oils.
We know that seed oils cause obesity.
Yeah.
So my last question is,
what are you hopeful for in this whole movement?
Are you feeling hopeful that we are going to be able to change this around?
Well, yes and no.
There's definitely change, very good change.
Slow, it's a small group of people.
What we have going on is what I call the natural selection of the wise.
The wise who wise up and eat real foods, cook for themselves, feed their babies right.
They will survive and have more children.
Whereas, and this is nature's ways, not me saying this, it's nature saying this, those
who don't will not survive and will not reproduce.
We're already seeing this with widespread infertility, as you know.
So this is what I call the natural selection of the wise.
It's a slow process.
It will take several generations.
But eventually, we will have a healthy population again.
MS. FITZPATRICK-STAMPTON Wow.
It's heartbreaking when you think about it.
Yeah.
Well, by the way, members of our foundation
receive a lot of really helpful little trifolds
that you can give to people.
We have one on butter, we have one on cholesterol.
Why cholesterol is so important.
So we have one on grains,
one on the V word, vaccinations.
Oh, I just did an episode.
Actually, the last episode that I recorded here in D.C.
was with a woman called Alexandra.
She has a website called Just The Inserts.
And she's amazing.
If you're not aware of her work,
I would highly recommend checking her out.
She wrote a book about this.
And it's called Just the Inserts.
And the reason she called it that is because she is taking the information
from the vaccine inserts themselves and just sharing it with the public
and just saying, hey, this is what the inserts say.
And they believe a lot of stuff out of the inserts too.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, when you eat this way, you don't need to vaccinate,
even if vaccination worked.
You don't need to take that risk with your children,
because this is a diet that creates health.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Thank you so much for all the work that you're doing.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for your time today.
Please let everyone know where they can find you personally and your books.
Okay.
So my blog is nourishingtraditions.com.
And I do have on that blog a series of articles called Bringing Up Baby, where I talk about
my least favorite book in the world, Baby Lead Weaning.
And then the Weston A. Price Foundation is westonaprice.org.
And that's got a huge website
where we'd love to have you as a member.
We're in a big membership drive right now.
We have a conference every year.
This one will be in Salt Lake City in October.
We have lots of information.
We have a wonderful podcast.
Our podcast is where I think we're at,
15 million downloads now.
And people just love Hilda, our podcast lady.
And then our third website would be realmilk.com
if you're looking for raw milk.
Also a lot of articles about raw milk.
And of course you can find a farm near you
or a store near you where you can get raw milk.
Isn't it interesting?
In California, you can go into any health food store
and get raw milk, and people aren't dying like flies there.
That's a great point.
Everyone I know is buying raw milk from Erwan.
Oh, yeah.
And they're all still here.
Yeah, they're still alive.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast.
This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry.
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The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute
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relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor
or your health team first.