Realfoodology - There’s What In Baby Food?? With Joe and Serenity of Serenity Kids

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

105: I challenge you to go down the baby food aisle and try to find one baby food that doesn’t contain fruit and/or grains like rice. This was impossible before Serenity Kids. They’re the only grain free baby food that uses organic, grass fed, regenerative meats, organic veggies, high quality fats and no fruit!  We talk about baby food, the formula shortage, conventional formula and so much more!  Show Links: Inventing Baby Food Book Check Out Serenity: Order Serenity Online Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 15% off all baby products Instagram Sponsored By: Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% OFF Magic Mind http://www.magicmind.co Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% OFF Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com Air Dr Air Purifier  AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database Further Listening: Why Grass Fed Meat is Going to Heal Our Earth Kids Nutrition with Jaime Mathews

On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. are really leading to that sugar addiction, leading to, of course, the children's food industry is also full of sugar and grain, which we want to eventually change and make children's food products. But that's like, we change it ourselves and start to trust ourselves and then really set our kids up for success from day one. Hi, friends. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. I'm your host, Courtney Swan. I cannot believe that we have done over 100 episodes. This is wild. I'm so grateful for you, the listeners, for continuing to show up and listen and support me while I'm on that subject. If you're enjoying the podcast, if you would leave a rating and review, that means

so much to me. It helps the show grow. It helps me to get it into more ears, which is ultimately the goal because I want to see humans happy, healthy, and thriving. Today's episode is one that I am so passionate about, baby food. I sat down with Joe and Serenity of Serenity Kids. If you are not aware of Serenity Kids, definitely go check them out. I am leaving some links in the show notes for you guys. They're the only baby food company that is doing what they're doing. That's creating really high quality food for babies that is not just full of sugar and grains. Everything is grain free. They use organic grass fed meats, organic veggies, and everything comes from regenerative farms. This is huge. I don't know

how much you guys know about baby food, but if you just go down the aisle and any grocery store and you pick up any of the baby foods and look at it, they're all grain, mostly rice and fruit based. There's not a single product on the shelf, except for Serenity Kids now, that's providing real nutritious food for kids. So we dive into this. We dive into the importance of healthy foods for babies and infants. We talk about arsenic in rice, something that you're really going to want to pay attention to. What differentiates their food products from all the other ones on the market. We also talk about the formula shortage and the formula that they have created that is, in my opinion, the most superior formula on the market. And I'm so excited about it because someone needed to do this. It is such

a long time coming and I'm just, I'm so excited about this episode, you guys. So with that, let's just get into the episode. I hope you love it. Oh, I almost forgot. Before we get into the episode, if you guys are interested in trying Serenity Kids, they gave me a discount code. It's Real Foodology and you're going to save 15%. So when you go to serenitykids.com, go in the show notes, click on the link and use

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So I want to know what brought you guys into the health scene? Like how did you get into making high quality baby food? Well, my dad ate yogurt and wheat germ when I was a kid. So he was kind of always been in the health scene. So I sort of grew up around that. But I was in general a sick little kid. And I had just a lot of stomach pain, digestive problems, a lot of grew up around that, but I was in general a sick little kid and I had just a lot of stomach pain, digestive problems, a lot of anxiety, insomnia, weird stuff. But I thought

that it was just permanent and I had to live that way. And I thought stomachs were just supposed to hurt. And I started taking antacids when I was about 15. And I remember getting my first car and loving it because I could go buy my own Tums from the drugstore whenever my stomach hurt. And then fast forward 20 years and I've been taking antacids every day for most of my life and they stopped working and I went to the doctor and she gave me another fancier pill to take every day and she said I'd have to take it every day for the rest of my life. I didn't like that answer I didn't know what I was going to do so I called my dad the health nerd and I'm like dad what do I do and he said you know maybe you should try changing your diet I sent you that book last year for Christmas on the paleo diet and I thought it sounded super dumb

you know eat like a caveman like this was 12 years ago and I never you know, eat like a caveman. Like this was 12 years ago. And I never, you know, I thought it sounded super dumb, but I was desperate. So I tried it and it worked. And I realized that food was a big part of my health journey. And, or, you know, basically not even food. I was eating garbage. I was eating trash from the industrial food system and waste, literal waste from the industrial food system. So once I kind of added nutrient dense veggies in, taught my stomach how to do its own thing and heal it and get it better, things were better for me. Yeah. I'm autistic. I wasn't diagnosed as a child. So had a lot of social challenges, of course, but a lot of physical challenges as well. Very sensitive to toxins, to inflammation. I was overweight as a

kid. I was a very picky eater. I basically lived on canned ravioli and nachos, all foods that turned out to be highly inflammatory to me. So in my journey to integrate autism, changing my diet was a part of that, exploring the role diet played. But really meeting Serenity, you know, she introduced me to the paleo diet and fell in love with her and the paleo diet at the same time and really discovered that that focusing on on meats and veggies and fats cutting out the processed foods the grains the sugars industrial seed oils that that was really helped me feel a lot better and so food was hugely important to both of us. So as soon as we started family planning, the first thing we thought was baby food. Like, what are we going to

feed this baby so that they don't turn out like we did? All sick. And we went looking for baby foods and were very disappointed with what we found. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what's so interesting? So Serenity, I have a similar story to you, although it was my mom that was super into health, not my dad. And I specifically remember when my brother was little, she would puree all the food herself because she was like, I can't find anything healthy because the Gerbers and all the other things on the market are super sugary. And all they are made out of basically is like fruit and grains, which is the exact opposite of what babies need. Like growing brains need animal proteins. They need high quality fats. So when I found your food, I was like, Oh my God, this is so genius. Why is it taking someone so

long to do this? We thought the same thing. In fact, it took me, I don't know, six months to really believe that no one else was doing it because it was such a no brainer. I looked in France. I looked in Canada. I looked all over the world to try to find these baby foods and they just didn't exist. And now that we're doing it, I know why they're not doing it. It's hard. It's hard. It's really hard. There was no supply chain built out for business to business transactions of regenerative meats and certain kinds of oils and certain kinds of ingredients. We had to build that out ourselves. And then the manufacturing is also really hard. We're making our veggie and meat purees on equipment designed for fruits. So we needed to do some special welding and calibrations of those

machines because the texture of the puree is different. And we had a lot of failed attempts at doing the first few pouch runs because of that difference in viscosity and the texture. And it's expensive, right? Our ingredient, you know, thinking about buying applesauce compared to ground grass-fed beef or regeneratively farmed beef, like there's a huge cost difference. So making those numbers work really probably only work for either little companies like ours that just don't have a lot of overhead and we can figure out how to make that work or huge companies with massive scale

and just tons of cash to throw at problems. But because we're the former, we were little and scrappy and have figured it out. And also we're not the cheapest pouch on the aisle. And there are a lot of big companies that weren't willing to take that risk. Can we launch a pouch that's double the price, that's triple or quadruple the nutrition? Will people buy it? And so we were that test case. Yes, of course they will. Their moms were begging us for it. We meet people at trade shows all the time that say, man, I wish I'd had this

when my kid was young, you know? And, you know, I stayed up until midnight pureeing his foods because there was nothing that I was willing to feed him. And I was a full-time mom. I had a full-time job and was a mom, things like that. us it like it's been giving me goosebumps i just feel so happy to be able to support those parents that are looking for that better nutrient dense option but also still live in this crazy world and need something convenient and also we're able to make it taste great when you use really high quality ingredients and balance it out okay you don't need those sugars and those kind of fillers to get the baby to eat it i'll never forget the first time we did a run or up we did a test batch at our house i remember i was driving home from my my job we you know i had two other jobs when we started this company and I called Joe and I was like Joe maybe no one is making this food because babies won't eat it

we've got to find a baby we didn't have a baby at the time you know so I'm like do we know any babies can we try to make it and get some babies to eat it and we had I had one like paleo friend who had a how old was Orion like eight months old or something maybe a year yeah and we bought some little empty squeezy pouches on amazon with this little homemade filler you could make your own pouches you know moms can make their own pouches and we had a bunch of fights trying to weigh and measure things in the kitchen making teeny amounts you know we've never done this before and we drove them all around and delivered them to people and they were not shelf stable. So we had to deliver them all the same day. They had

to eat them in like two or three days. And I'll never forget, she sent me a picture of her kid holding the pouch. And she sent me a blurb that says, he sucked the whole thing down and wouldn't let me have the pouch back. He's been playing with it all day. And I remember I started crying because I thought, these babies know what's up. These babies know what's up. They want good fats. They want good meats. They want healthy veg.

And they don't need a bunch of sugary fruits to feel satisfied and happy. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I love that story so much. Well, that's the thing. Like kids are very intuitively connected to what their body needs. And not only that, but these beginnings, this beginning stage of life is absolutely imperative that kids are fed nutritious foods. And it's crazy to me that we don't put more of an emphasis on that. Like you look at the ingredients of the baby food on the shelf, you look at the formulas, which I want to go into in a little bit. And it's crazy to me

that this is probably one of the most imperative times for a human because their brain is developing, their body is growing, and we're feeding them just complete garbage ingredients. So for people that are not aware of Serenity Kids, what differentiates your food from others on the market? You know, it's funny. It's about the only thing that's the same is that it's in a pouch. It's a pouch puree. So the format is the same, which was intentional because we wanted to make it easy for parents to switch and to find us. But otherwise, we're completely different what's inside. You know, our recipes mimic the macronutrients of breast milk. We're the first people to do that, to really take breast milk as the template. And that's a very important fat to carb ratio.

That's about equal fat and carbs. There was no other fat on the aisle. There's still pretty much no other fat on the aisle. Like we're the only ones that have any amount of fat in our products. Ours all have at least five grams of fat per pouch babies need 30 grams of fat a day you know they say that before the age of two half their calories should come from fat so that's conventional mainstream which i was surprised the science everybody agrees fat's key for babies and yet there was no fat on the aisle there's's still, like, still nobody's putting fat in baby food.

You know, we're the only ones to have good meat. Nobody's used any kind of animal products. There's a few other products with meat in them that were pretty gross. They're hard to find. They don't taste good. They mix grain with it. And fruit, like chicken, quinoa, and blueberry, and things like that. Yeah, it's weird.

I know. It's those strange recipes that don't sell well because they taste bad, and then they're trying to keep costs down, and we're not focused on cost. We're focused on quality. So we have meat. We have fat. We're entirely vegetable forward.

First ingredient of all our products is a vegetable, which is also unique. Mostly it's fruit is the first ingredient. We don't use any fruits. You'll never find sugary fruits in our products. But we always have vegetables. You know, we're family owned. We're the only leading baby food company that is run by parents.

You know, most of the other big companies are all huge conglomerates. Yeah, big food executives that we're feeding this to our kid every day. All our staff feed this to their babies on a daily basis. You know, we're one of the only ones that's heavy metal tested. So there's a lot of controversy around heavy metals in baby food. And all the major brands were called out for having, you know, lots of heavy metals in their products. So ours are clean label projects certified that they're, you know,

the lowest levels in the industry. We have a quality program second to none. And then we support regenerative agriculture, which, you know, the lowest levels in the industry. We have a quality program second to none. And then we support regenerative agriculture, which, you know, there's very few baby foods have any kind of sustainable or sourcing story at all, you know, let alone the best sourcing. Like you don't even know the sourcing of most of those products. Well, it's organic. That's all you know. Yeah, they know what's sort of organic, but you don't know where and what the practices were

and how big the farms were. So you can read all about all our farms on our website. You know, we're committed to supporting regenerative agriculture and buying the best possible meat, pastries and regeneratively farmed meats. So there's more, but those are the highlights. I love it.

I mean, you're just speaking my language right now. I can't wait till I have kids because this is what I will be feeding my kids as well. Like we mentioned in the very beginning, we met at a regenerative farming conference and this is a conversation I'm very passionate about. I talk about it all the time. I have multiple podcast episodes, so I'll just tell people to go back and reference those because I want to stay focused on your food. But I just love your commitment to the quality of food. And what I'm trying to understand is how did we get to this place where you guys are the only baby food company that are making these high-quality products? How did we get this so messed up where everything we're offering to kids is sugary and grains, whereas what they need to be having is fat and proteins.

Like what? How did we mess this up so bad? It didn't used to be that way. I didn't I didn't plan this, but there's a great book called Inventing Baby Food. So the first baby foods were like liver and onion puree, bone broth and liver, meat purees. So back in the post-World War II, World War II era, when we started canning foods, the 30s, the 40s, the 50s, there was that. And then, I don't know, the 60s and 70s hit and people needed to find cost reductions. There were not necessarily as good of quality options available that kept going, right? Like I said, from a business-to-business perspective. And I guess it just sort of fell out of favor.

Also, as you probably know, the sugar industry started lobbying for fat to be labeled as bad. So that trickled down into the baby food aisle, we figure. It's like the low-fat movement the vegan vegetarian meat is bad movement. Essentially all the health food experts were saying, don't feed meat and feed low fat. And that ended up on the baby food aisle. We see that corrected in most of the rest of the aisle, most of the rest of the store. Now we've seen more and more good meats. We're seeing more quality fats, you know, but baby, nobody had done it on baby yet. And so we were really the first and because baby foods dominated by such large companies, it takes them forever to do anything new. And they just, they're just dinosaurs in that regard. So

we've been selling for four years now. There's still been zero competition. I mean, nobody's tried to do what we're doing. Well, we had someone make veggies plus fat. The happy baby came out with a bad tasting and they only did two and a half grams of fat. So they tried the veggies and fat line is our lowest selling line. Like our meat, our meat products are the most popular. The veggie fats are kind of supplementary. So they copied our like lower selling line and they didn't do very well. We're seeing more veggie forward stuff. We're seeing lower sugar stuff. Like they are trying to get the sugar out they're trying to get more vegetables in but this like plant powered whole movement of like plant-based blah blah blah is still just so big and people that because that was two years ago that's when they

started innovating it takes them two years three years to get a product out. Just now we're seeing that stuff come out. So we hope that people copy us. We'd really like to see more meat. We'd really like to see more fat, more diversity. Like we want to see the whole aisle change to get rid of the grain, to heavy metal test everything, to, you know, lower the sugar or take it out entirely and and bring me back because when i read melissa hartwood's book um whole 30 you know i remember what the name of it starts with food was the name of the book she said every bite counts and i remember thinking about that you

know she's thinking about it for a grown-up for me so like every bite that i take i can choose do i want to add nutrition to my body or not? And when you're feeding a baby, the exact same thing applies magnified a hundred times because feeding a baby sucks. It's hard trying to get spoonfuls in, trying to figure it out. So we want it. We know that now we have a baby even after we started the company. Right. And so we know how hard that is. And we wanted to make everybody really, truly count. count. Yeah, I love that. Well, and I've read, so I don't have a baby myself, but I have read that this is why it's so important

in the very beginning to introduce them as many foods as possible, because you really want to introduce their palate to everything. And that's what's so sad and scary about everything being so sugary and sweetened now is that we are training their palates to be just craving massive amounts of sugar

at such a young age. And then we're scratching our heads wondering why the obesity rates are rising, chronic diseases are rising. And again, like you said, every bite counts and it really starts in those beginning stages, you know. And it's interesting that you brought up that the low fat movement. I actually never thought about this in equation with baby food, but there was that famous Harvard study in like, I think it was the seventies where they found that it was actually sugar that was causing heart disease. But then the sugar industry stepped in, they paid off those scientists and then cued the low fat movement. And that makes so much sense. So then we made everyone fear fat and then it moved into baby food, which is horrifying because what you mentioned earlier about breast milk, if you look at the components of breast milk, it's mostly fat.

And nature didn't get it wrong. So why are we not mimicking that? The brain's made of fat. Their brain is doubling in size. Their body's doubling in size. The spine is fat. All vitamins are absorbed. Fat-soluble vitamins need fat.

So it's tragic. It's 30 grams of fat a day they need. And instead, when we did our study of all the baby foods on the aisle before our products, it was an average of 9 grams of sugar per pouch. And babies are eating two, three of those a day. You get 30 grams of sugar instead of fat. And you've got a Snickers bar worth of sugar that you're giving to a tiny little baby. That would be like you or me eating 300 grams of fat or sugar.

You know, nine grams doesn't sound like much for one pouch, but that's 90 grams for you or me. You know, and so it's like and that's just pure fruit, which all the vitamins have been boiled out of, you know, processed fruit purees. So maybe whole fruit might have some vitamin content in addition to the sugar, but those fruit purees, like there's nothing left, like it's the equivalent of jam. Yeah, exactly. Those purees, they boil them down so intensely that any sort of vitamins and nutrients are boiled out of there. Oh my gosh, it's so, it makes me so sad. Because there's so many parents that are aware of this. I would say over this last year, one of my main health focuses has really been cognitive function and protecting my brain. I really think we're going to start hearing more about this. We are realizing the importance of protecting our brain and maximizing our cognitive function. And thanks to

breakthroughs in science with things like nootropics, we are realizing that we can also do this without the harmful side effects of pharmaceutical drugs. We can actually do it naturally and more effectively. So I personally have been really intrigued by nootropics and adaptogens. Both are scientifically backed and researched to improve cognitive function. They help with memory. They help with productivity. They help with focus. And if you're doing it right, it can also help with stress.

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stuff and also if you use my code you'll'll save 20% off to try it. So if you go to magicmind.co and use code realfoodology, you're going to save 20%. I hope you love it. So I want to ask you for people that may not understand why. So why did you guys go grain-free? I know there's an issue about arsenic in the rice. So maybe if we want to talk about that too, because I think a lot of people don't know about that. Yep. Grain-free in general. So our family has been grain-free. I mean, Joe and I have been grain-free for years. And the reason that we chose that was primarily two reasons. One, it's just not as nutritious. So if you're comparing bite for bite and you look at a bite of grass-fed meat and you look at a bite of wheat, you're going to get way much more

nutrition in the meat bite. Or even squash or potato, vegetables compared to grains, much higher vitamin content. And then also grain is inflammatory and it wreaks havoc on the gut. It's very hard to digest. Those little seeds are not meant to be digested. Like mother nature created those seeds to propagate those plants. And any animals that eat them, those seeds were designed to withstand the digestive tract and be excreted by those animals somewhere farther away and to keep propagating that plant, right?

That plant's way of reproducing. So even though we ground them up, those dangerous chemicals that are in there that are kind of coating the germ that are trying to make it through the digestive tract, they're still there and they're inflammatory. And, you know, Rob Wolf has a famous blog, like how to keep poop out of your bloodstream or something. And I read that and I was like, oh, my gosh, I need to change everything. Those are frequently called anti-nutrients. And not only do they not digest the grain, but it takes all the rest of the food you ate with it. Causes leaky gut. It reduces the nutritional impact of the rest of your foods.

And then creates inflammation in the process. I mostly eat grain-free because I discovered this as well. And I started paying attention to the different foods that I was eating and recognizing, okay, oatmeal makes me feel like shit. I can do a little bit of rice. Like there's certain things I can do a little bit of, but I think, um, yeah, it's important. Once you start tuning into your body, you really start taking note of the things that you feel sick on and inflammatory. And yeah, so it's cool. I also think you guys might be the first baby food, um, like snacks on the market that are grain free. We are. It's crazy. Like you said, it was all sugar and grain. It was either purees in the pouches or grains in the puffs, bars, teething biscuits.

All that was mostly gluten free. You know, mostly there's still some gluten, but it's all rice or white rice flour, which, you know, there's, you know, there's people with gluten intolerance, which, you know, maybe rice is a little better for them, but rice is still, you know, pretty inflammatory. Cernit I've been monitoring our glucose a lot. We've been wearing glucose monitors and looking at our blood sugar and grains also are, you know, empty carbs, like they convert to sugar really quickly. So we say sugar and grain, it's almost the same thing in the body, like grains and those kinds of empty carbs just go straight to the blood sugar. Like for me, white rice is the same as like, if I eat a gluten-free

hot, you know, hamburger bun, I might as well eat like a donut, you know, it's like the same thing. And then speaking of rice, you mentioned arsenic earlier. The way that arsenic kind of pollutes our water system and rice is grown with a lot of water. A lot of the rice in this kind of, well, I was just saying the world period is heavy on the arsenic. And a lot of other rice-based baby puffs have been known to have extremely high levels of arsenic,

which is a neurotoxin. And baby's brains are growing a lot in their first couple years of life, and so you wanna keep those brains as neurotoxin-free as possible. So we opted for using cassava, which is a root vegetable. Thoroughly tested, because roots also can get heavy metals

from being in the soil, so we have very high standards for that. So like we said, we feed these to our daughter our daughter but yes the rice supply is so contaminated it's almost impossible to get arsenic free right and i mean it was even hard to find our low arsenic and low i mean just really low lead levels of cassava too at first i didn't think we were going to be able to make the puffs product because i knew it had to be grain free which meant no rice And then the cassava that we were finding also was not low enough to meet our standards. So we finally found a really clean supplier out of Nicaragua and are super, I'm really proud of that puffs product. It's a snack. So I was buying, occasionally I

was buying those rice puffs for my own kid because at some point she just needs something to kind of occupy her while I'm cooking. Yeah, something to kind of practice picking up and eating. And so it's a little embarrassing, but I did buy those a few times. And so now people don't have to do that. And we put our puffs I'm really proud of because they actually taste like the vegetables that they're named. And that's because they have dried, ground up vegetable powder on the outside. We really wanted to excite their flavor window when you're wanting to expose kids to a lot of different flavors. And this early, you know, the six to eight to 18 month time frame is really the time when you would want to do it. And so our like broccoli spinach puff tastes like broccoli and tastes like spinach.

We also dehydrated bone broth yeah first so we include bone broth in some of the puffs so they have a couple grams of protein also and we're the first far as out of the first one to snackify bone broth we're also we're the first bone broth on the baby aisle anyway um both in our bone broth pouches and in our puffs but particularly this this uh proprietary dehydrated bone broth is a really cool ingredient that we're finding lots of new ways to use. And it tastes great, right? Bone broth tastes good.

So you put that on kind of some cassava snack with some veggie powder. They're like addictive. Introduce to us. I can't open them in my office. When we do taste tests, I'm like, get those things away from me. I will just eat the whole can. So they taste great. And they're really unique flavors. I've noticed too. I'm, I'm a fan of the puffs. I've had canisters of them in my pantry before my friends were like, why do you have baby

food? I'm like, guys, they're really good. Trust me. Okay. So I want to talk about formula because this is a really hot topic right now. Obviously, with that formula shortage, when we started dealing with this shortage, obviously, it's devastating. However, at the same time, my thinking was as someone that knows how horrible the ingredients are in those formulas, my first thought was, oh, thank God, now women are going to be forced to find other options, whether that be breast milk banks or other companies like yourselves that actually have it in stock that are making cleaner options. Like when there's a will, there's a way, right? And when you look at the

ingredients of the conventional formula, I mean, the first time I ever looked at the back of one of those, I was, I think my jaw literally dropped because there's corn syrup solids, there's seed oils, there's synthetic vitamins. I'm trying to remember, what else is in conventional formula that's trash? Soy, there's a lot of maltodextrin, tons of corn. It's basically corn and soy and industrial seed oils. And not that conventional milk, like the lowest grade skim milk you could buy. Yeah. If you think about what's not even on the label, so that milk comes from conventional cows. So there's growth hormones in there that, and probably the antibiotics and maybe pharmaceuticals or whatever it was that those cows are eating and genetically modified corn,

wheat and soy, which is sprayed with pesticides. Like I could go on. It's crazy. I'm a mom. And so I get real mad and I want to advocate for those babies. So I think it's disgusting and criminal and should be stopped. But as a mom, I also did feed formula to my kid because I had trouble nursing and you

can't actually buy breast milk. It's illegal to buy someone's breast milk. So milk banks are really only used for premature babies, which is amazing. Plug for milk banks. If you've got extra milk bank, if you've got extra milk stashed moms, don't throw it out. Find a milk bank to donate it to because it keeps those babies literally alive. It's amazing. But I had to feed formula to my kid at about starting about nine months. And it was brutal. It was brutal. I remember, I mean, I just cried and cried because I knew that I had to feed her something that I wasn't going to like, right? And I did a ton of research and I ended up settling on a whole wide range of options. I would drive out every week to a goat dairy farm

outside of town and I would buy her a bunch of raw goat's milk that had been tested for bacteria and all those things. So she loved that stuff. And then I fed her two different formulas. One was a German goat milk formula that I didn't really like, but it was, you know, better than the other bad ones. Is it Hall or Halle? It was Halle. I used the Halle goat milk. And then another one I used was called Sammy's milk. And it was technically a toddler formula, but I had read a bunch of Facebook posts from other parents because it still had industrial seed oils, but it wasn't like the worst kinds. I think it was like high oleic sunflower oil. And so it had methylated B vitamins.

So I was like, okay, I don't really want folic acid in my formula. So this one was a decent one. It also had molasses. It had fish oil. It was brown and smelled like fish, which was a little rough sometimes, you know, to feed it to my kid. But the seed was planted in that moment. Like, oh, you know what? I am in a position to maybe change this terrible, tragic criminal situation. And I emailed a friend of mine, Dr. Sarah Valentine, I don't know if you know her, but she's really big in the autoimmune protocol movement. And she and I had been talking the year before about formula. She had asked us, she's been advising our company for years. And I'm like, any chance you want to help me make this unicorn product and change the world. And to my great surprise and delight, she said yes. So we worked on it for two years. We finally launched our, let's see,

our A2 grass-fed whole milk formula last year, so the summer of 2021. But I am so proud of it. And I would say one of the, I mean, we basically, it's the same as the pouches. The format looks the same. It's in the same little can. It's powder, you scoop, right?

But everything else is different. Every macronutrient source is different. The fats, proteins, and carbs, all different, way upgraded sources. The vitamins are way better. For me, the thing I'm most proud of, if I have to boil it down to one thing, it's really the fat profile. Human milk, as one could imagine, is a complex, diverse, wildly ranging type of substance. And the fatty acid ratios and just the fat profile in general is really complex and difficult, which is another reason it's hard to make formula.

Because if you're trying to mimic breast milk, which maybe not everyone is, but I think everyone is to some extent, then it is hard to mimic. And we use eight different kinds of fats in here that are really great sources and that approximated human milk as close as possible. More closely than ever. Way closer. The fatty acid profile. In general, Sarah, you know, read over 200 papers on breast milk, like international studies of breast milk, everything ever written in English.

She looked at, she mapped the nutritional profile and then she looked at hundreds of ingredients and did a matchmaking game to figure out, you know, how we can really mimic breast milk more than anything else ever has. And of course we'll never replace it. It's too magical, but we were going to try to get as close as possible. And this product is, you know, I feel unequivocally the closest thing to breast milk ever created. The fats being one part, the A2 protein being another huge part of it, the lactose sweetener and the lactose carbs instead of corn syrups or rice syrups. It's lactose, which is the same as breast milk. The vitamin sources, there's some prebiotic fiber.

There's the non-inflammatory methylated b so it's you know just the best source of everything whatever we could we whatever there was a choice it was always for nutrition never for price or ease organic status or like it's not officially organic because we use wild algal oil in a decent percentage which you can't make a wild food classified as organic. And therefore, we weren't able to have it be certified organic, even though all the ingredients in there, except for that one, right, are pretty much organic. But we decided what's better for babies. And that was the better choice.

Wow, that's so interesting. Also, what an epic product that you guys made. I'm so grateful when, well, I want to backtrack really fast and just say this for everyone listening and to you as well. I want to be really sensitive to all of this because I recognize and realize that this is such a sensitive topic for women. And there's a lot of women that are dealing with the devastating non-ability to be able to feed their child with breast milk. This is also just, it's funny because it comes to this like weird intersection of like, I'm so passionate about this conversation because the formula is that we're giving moms like right when they give birth, you know, out of the hospital are the ones that were like just really throwing all the marketing and advertising behind and they're the cheapest ones so they're the most accessible are garbage and it makes me so sad because like where I come from and what we've

been talking about this entire episode is like I really want to see humans thriving and living healthy and you know so that's but I just wanted to say I'm also like my heart goes out to women that are struggling with this and like hopefully there are more resources for women and I'm so grateful for people like you guys that are creating these products that are providing healthier options for people. So I just wanted to say that to be sensitive to it because I know it's a hard subject. Yeah, moms want to breastfeed. Like the study is very clear that every mom pretty much really wants to breastfeed. Moms don't not breastfeed because they are lazy or they don't, you know, they really either have circumstances where they just cannot. They have to go back to work.

Largely economic. There's no guaranteed maternity leave in this country. You're lucky if you get two weeks unpaid, you know, so trying to work full time and breastfeed is really, really tough. And then there's just a lot of miseducation. There's just a lot of moms. They're told they shouldn't or that it's not important or that formula is better or just as good or, you know, there's all kinds of education lacking resources. In South America, there are a lot of babies who get their lip and tongue ties revised at birth, and they have a much higher

rate of breastfeeding for longer. And that was actually one of our issues was that Dellen needed a lip tie revision. And as soon as she had that surgery, nursing stopped hurting. And it was like, what? This is what it could be like? Because I was in so much pain for so many months. It was awful. So I'm actually next month, August is breastfeeding awareness month, and I'm going to start an education campaign. So I'm just planting the seed for those listeners who might be moms or be thinking about becoming moms that lip and tongue ties are a thing that can interfere with nursing and that they are very easy to correct. So a lot of things that interfere shouldn't hurt. A lot of moms think it just should hurt. So there's lots of lactation consultants. There's lots of resources.

There's all this fear about supply oh my supply isn't enough they're not eating enough i need to supplement with formula because my supply isn't enough like all this shame your supply is enough like it's very very rare that your supply isn't enough for your baby and if you start introducing formula it actually decreases your supply and it creates this cycle of formula dependency that that leads to full weaning and so there's there's just so many myths there's so much shame around it there's so much pressure and it's also so hard being a new mom period is hard so hard much less having to go online and doing research and having meetings with lactation consultants i mean that's hard and having to go

back to work and having trouble getting supported by your partner. I mean, that's just... Dehydration is a thing. Yeah. I was super dehydrated. So I didn't really have good electrolyte balances. And now there's element packets. I don't know if you've ever heard of them, but there's a whole myriad of factors that are caused by civilization and us living in these toxic and stressful environments that

make it really, really tricky. But I applaud any mom that tries, that succeeds, that tries and fails, right? Trying it all is not easy. In fact, I was just looking at a meme on Facebook the other day, and it was something like a nursing mom nurses for one year, here it is, providing breast milk for one year takes roughly 1,825 hours. If you have a full-time job and three weeks vacation, it's 1,960. It's about the exact same amount. And that's with three weeks off and weekends off. So it is so much work. One of my best girlfriends just had a baby two months ago and just being along her side and witnessing how much she has to feed the baby. It's yeah, it's wild. It's, it's very time consuming.

Well, and, and back to your point, Joe, that I wanted to stress a little bit more. I think what a lot of women are in the dark about is this education piece, because I had never heard this. I had a woman recently, a doula on my podcast, and she talked about this very thing. She was like, it's important that women know that there's different things that could be hindering your baby from latching. Like for example, the tongue tie, the lip tie. And these are things that if a mom knew and could remedy it, then your problem is no longer a problem. Or for example, there's a thing happening now because they put fentanyl in epidurals. So like women listening, if you don't know this, if you're getting an epidural, no shame, no problem,

but just make sure you tell them I want it without fentanyl because they put it together. And what's happening is the baby's now coming out or like super drugged up and then they can't latch and then the mom panics and then they just throw them on formula immediately instead of knowing and realizing that they need to, well, one, don't get the fentanyl, but also if that happens, know that like the baby just needs a little bit of time to come out of the drowsiness and whatever. So there's a lot, there's a lot of education. And on top of that, and you mentioned this, but it's important to stress because of, so we forget that these, these formula companies have massive marketing budgets and they're telling women that formula is better than breast milk. So a lot of women are doing this thinking and they're telling women that formula is better

than breast milk. So a lot of women are doing this thinking that they're doing better for their baby. And so it's, you know, they think like, oh, breastfeeding is fun. Like I don't actually really need to do it. And you know, this is a small subset of women and no shame if you felt that way in the past, but this is why where education comes in to show that these formulas are here for cases when, you know, when you really can't do anything else, but this is where education comes in to show that these formulas are here for cases when you really can't do anything else. But breastfeeding, really, if you can do it and if you can be educated on the ways to do it, to get over the humps of it being super hard, that's where you're going to find success. Yeah, the formula companies are actually

pharmaceutical companies. It's the same people who make drugs and who buy into this Western medicine idea that people need doctors and drugs to make themselves healthy, that food and lifestyle and intuition and spirituality, none of those things matter for health. The only thing that can make you healthy is our drugs and our expert doctors telling you what to do. And that, you know, that's their mentality. They're not evil. They're not trying to hurt people. I don't think they just genuinely believe that the only way to be healthy is to have the, the, the essentially people are born diseased. Infancy is a disease that must be treated. Childbirth is a disease to be medicated. Pregnancy, right? They

treat it all as if it's a disease to be treated as opposed to a natural thing that's happened for thousands of years that should just be mostly left alone. Let it run its course unless there's some kind of significant issue. And so that's where formula like childbirth, like pregnancy is highly informed by Western medicine and this idea that what we want to tightly control what a baby eats, they can't control breast milk. But their worldview is such that says babies need medicine, which formula is medicine, these synthetic vitamins. The rice cereal is the same way. Like I kept asking why do pediatricians still recommend fortified rice cereal as a first food?

It's full of arsenic. It causes constipation. There's no nutrition. There's no science around this. Why would doctors recommend this? And all I can come up with from talking to progressive pediatricians who obviously don't recommend that is that the synthetic iron is the treatment for the disease of infancy. It's like this idea that you need this fake iron because you're iron deficient and we can't control how much beef you get or spinach you get

or how much iron is in the beef, how much iron is in the spinach, even though the evidence is very clear that there's lots more iron in beef and spinach. It's much more iron in beef and spinach and it's much more absorbable and the fake iron in in the rice cereal has lots of problems but but just there this worldview has to shift and that's how i was raised when i got sick i went to the doctor got on antibiotics multiple times a year that's just kind of how it worked and i'm so grateful that my dad was a health nut and found his way here. And I hopped on board that train and I got Joe on it and my kid. And now like my business, you know, it's really it's a it's a luxury that I have.

And I have a lot of privilege around it that and I am really trying to help spread that spread the word. Most people forget that we really don't know that much about food or the human body. We think we know a lot, but the more you learn and the more you uncover, the more you realize how much you don't know. This podcast alone has been such a learning experience of me, for me, because I've been studying nutrition in this world for 17 years. And then I get these amazing experts and doctors and nutritionists come on my podcast. And I'm like, I've never heard that before. Wow. And you're just reminded of that we know so little. And we've, we think that we know like, so with these formulas, you know, we think that we've like, okay, we've whittled it down to all these synthetic vitamins and these seed oils or whatever it is. And this will be enough nutrition to provide for

the baby. But it's like, we don't actually really know that. Vitamins are only 100 years old. If you think about a clinical trial on someone's life, that's a 40 year time span. So like how many of those trials can we really have done and building upon that body of knowledge, like it will take centuries to even get like halfway there. So we are ignorantly assuming or maybe arrogantly assuming that we know a lot more than we really do. The comforting thing is our bodies know. That's right. And our babies know. And the earth knows.

Right. And the resilience. And we talk about these garbage formulas how many babies eat them and how well most people turn out you know i mean there's there's different things with disease and chronic illness or whatever but by and large like humans are incredibly resilient it's very hard to to actually hurt us we can recover from almost anything and you know that's our there's so much intuition, you know, in learning to trust our own bodies. But I think especially when it comes to pregnancy, childbirth, raising babies,

raising children, that's the most important thing is trusting that it's going to be okay, that we actually know mom's intuition knows what's right for her baby, regardless of what all the experts say. So get out of this idea that science has an explanation for everything, or you need to go to your doctor for everything, whether you're doing it wrong. So much, everything is telling us to doubt ourselves, especially women are told to doubt their knowing, their intuition, moms were blamed for everything. So, you know, we really, that's, that's where the real knowledge is, is in that, is in that deeper note. I'm so glad that you brought this up. I talk about this all the time and I think, um, I have found, so this is anecdotal in my own

personal experience, but the more that I've cleaned up my diet and I've eaten more, um, you know, like whole real clean foods, the more in touch I've been able to get in with my intuition. One of the hardest questions I get on my Instagram from people is like, will you make me a meal plan? What do I eat? And I'm like, you got to get in touch with your body because I'm very intuitively led. But it took me a long time to get there because I had to get through all the cravings of the highly palatable processed foods. And that's the thing is we forget that our bodies are highly intelligent and they know what we need, but we're being inundated and we're getting very confused

because we're just being thrown all these highly processed foods that are highly palatable, super addictive. There are food scientists that are creating these specific ratios of fat, sugar, and salt to just make it so addictive that you're no longer in tune with what your body actually is craving and really needs. So it's important that we get back in tune with that intuitive nature so that we can really feed ourselves. And starting at infancy is part of our mission, is if we can start kids off at the very beginning on these nutrient- foods you talked about the flavor window and the palate development you know that's permanent that six months to 18 months

pal flavor window that your palate preferences are formed for life so all these sugary purees are really leading leading to that sugar addiction leading to of course the children's food industry is also full of sugar and grain which we want to eventually change and make children's food products. You know, but that's like, you know, we change in ourselves and start to trust ourselves and then really set our kids up for success from day one, you know, with focusing on breast milk and better formulas if needed. And then, you know, really nutrient-dense foods like ours. Yes. Okay. I have two more questions about the formula specifically, because I want to

make this really clear for people. Why can't you say that your formula is okay for infants? We are officially a toddler formula. So the process to become infant formula certified is a multi-year, three to four years, dealing with the FDA right now, maybe longer, and a multi-million dollar process. So first you have to give the product to a control group and an experimental group of mice. Mice hate lactose. So you've got to get these mice to grow with your product and a lactose heavy formula is going to be harder to succeed there. And then you actually give the product to a control group and an experimental group of actual real life human babies. And there are some, I think some ethical issues for me

around feeding babies, using babies as a science experiment, But also it is, it's just really, really long. It's super resource intensive. And in my opinion, it's a little bit antiquated and outdated because the formula that they're using is that control group was designed in the 1970s. So it's the Infant Formula Act of 1980 that's governing all of these infant formulas. And that's based on 10-year-old science starting from... you had to back that up even another decade, right? Because legislation takes forever to happen. So that science is maybe from 1970, maybe from the 60s. So it's really, really old science that they're using. And if I had tons of cash and lots of extra time, I might have started this process.

But I'm also like, I know that what I have in my product is excellent and superior and premium. And I don't want to dumb down my product just to get it certified as infant formula. I was a mom who fed my older baby. She was nine months old. I fed her a toddler formula because I had read the feedback from other parents saying my kid did great on this. So we wanted to go ahead and get this product out to market. I didn't want to wait around three or four or five more years with a big question mark hanging over my head and a giant amount of debt throttling my business. I wanted to make it available for moms who wanted it now. So we can only call it how the formula recommended for 12 months and up.

You know, we it does meet all of the 29 nutrients required for infant formula. It is made in an infant formula facility. So really the only step of the process we haven't completed is these are these long and expensive feeding studies, which the U.S. is the only country in the world that requires that. Europe doesn't require that. So, you know, if we were in Europe, we likely could have been an infant formula already. And right now, the FDA is giving emergency infant formula certification to a lot of products like ours. We're in the process of applying for that. So we might be able to start marketing it to infants sooner than later. But for now, you know, all we can say is that you talk to your health

practitioner, make a decision. We have a really awesome one pager you can download from our website to bring to your health practitioner. I'm going to say, hey, does this formula look like it's safe for my baby? A lot of moms do their own research and compare, you know, nutritions and ingredients or read reviews from other moms. So there are definitely lots of parents using our product with their infants as their exclusive food source, you know, if they're exclusively formula fed. That was what we intended it to be for. We designed it to be for that.

Nutritionally. Nutritionally, that was the goal. And we do take all the quality precautions knowing that moms may do that. But until either the FDA changes their process or we're able to get the right resources, we'll be considered a toddler formula. Yeah. I will say that if I had an infant right now and I needed formula, I would give this to my kid. So this is the only one that I would give. So just for all those, you know, future moms or current moms listening, that's what I would do. And also for people that don't know what A2 milk is, can you explain that? Yeah. So A2 beta casein protein is one of the proteins that's in

milk. And so there's A1 and A2. And A2 is most mammal milks around the globe. Camels, goats, lots of different, many cows produce A2 milk. Humans produce A2 milk. And then there was during the kind of agricultural millennia, some cows have been bred to produce A1 milk, which is a different kind of protein that has this beta-casomorphin type peptide on there. It was an accident. We were breeding cows for quantity of milk rather than quality. And what happened was the nutrition got degraded.

And this A1 protein mutation occurred in cattle. and now that's the primary dairy cow in the world, is this weird A1 protein that's hard to digest. Exactly. So it's harder to digest. And that's why we knew we wanted to choose A2, because human milk is A2, and we wanted to make every bite count, every sip count. So anyone who's fed a baby knows that spit up is not fun. You're like, wait a second, I just spent 45 minutes feeding that baby. And now it's all coming back out. This is terrible. So we wanted to make sure

that whatever nutrition went in was digestible and that those nutrients could be could become digested and we're super proud of the farm alexander family farm has been doing eight two regeneratively farm dairy for you know 20 years 20 plus years they were the first certified regenerative farm in america so by the by the savory institute by they're the first regenerative dairy and one of the first ever and their incredible family you can watch a video and and learn about uh you know their their group out out in california you can get their milk and all whole foods out to you so they sell food cells a2 whole milk culture skim milk and from that same farm and then it's in they're just regenerating the planet amazingly.

This carbon sequestration, the soil microbial growth, I mean, the amount of positive impact they've made on the land through raising cows both for dairy and for beef, as well as chickens and eggs, and this multi-species approach, really revolutionary. And the milk quality is so high that we didn't have to add as many vitamins. We tested it, and there are so many more naturally occurring vitamins. Plus the taste is different. And many people who can't tolerate dairy probably can tolerate A2 dairy,

that a lot of dairy allergy is actually an A1 sensitivity. So interesting. Okay. So I have a question for you guys, personal question that I ask all my guests, what are your health non-negotiables? These are things that no matter how crazy busy your day is, whether it's lifestyle, diet, whatever it is, these are health non-negotiables that you do on a daily basis to ensure that you're in good health. Mine have changed over the years. When I was healing my gut, I was extremely strict. I had no gluten.

I had no dairy for years at a time. I mean, I think I went three years, not one speck of either of those things. And I've loosened up a little bit because my gut has gotten healthier and I can digest it. We just went on a cruise and I got to eat pan au chocolat from Italy

and it was lovely. But for me right now, as a new mom, my non-negotiable is sleep. We have elaborate sleep rituals protocols we we take turns every other night he takes the baby i take the baby and like a lot of moms take the baby every night so i'm just plugging out their moms you can trade we take turns we both work it works for us and um i really think that that has severely positively affected my mental health, which affects everything about my life. I'm a better mom.

I'm a better wife. I'm a better friend. I'm a better boss. I'm better at everything. And I'm just that much happier. It's awesome. I was going to say meat is like first and foremost, like take away everything else. I could eat nothing but meat all day long

like if i i could be straight carnivore if i if that was what i had to do it was non-negotiable i was going to say sleep as well as like where a lot of our energy is spent on really good sleep but even before that we were very committed to sleep like the importance of eight to nine hours full dark you know you know, full blackout room, like really important sleep rituals. Because we run a startup and it is stressful. And we are, the second we're out of bed, we are running full speed. So having that break is, we didn't always prioritize sleep and it had negative effects. I really need a vigorous adrenaline basedbased exercise regimen. Water skiing is my favorite.

I slalom ski, and that's my favorite. But things like that, mountain biking, things that get my, that I get really amped up, I don't always prioritize it, but I really notice it when I do, well, when I don't. Like if I don't get that, I start to get tight and grumpy.

And then we've been looking at our metabolic health a lot lately. Yeah, that's right. And we've been doing some research monitors, really looking at, it's not about not eating carbs or sugar, but eating it in the right way, like balancing it with fat and protein, you know, using blood sugar, lowering tricks like vinegar and cinnamon pills, you know, just really like consciously eating carbs, not just mindlessly eating them. But now I know like what time of day I can eat them and what I need to combine it with or like I need the protein appetizer before the sweet cocktail, you know, like the blood sugar monitor really helps me hack that and understand how I can have some carbs and sugars without it really affecting my overall health. That's so important. And more people need to understand that. And also, I love that you brought up meat because I outside of my like eating meat daily in my meals, I have one of those paleo valley, the grass fed beef sticks

almost every day. And I've literally I joke, I'm like, this is a vitamin for me, but it's true. You got to try the Rome sticks. They're the first regenerative pork farmer. They make a fermented pork stick that's sugar-free, fermented, really good, you know, five fat, five protein in every stick. So, yeah. I need to get more of those. Yum. Well, for everyone listening, what are ways they can support your mission and then where can they find Serenity Kids? Yeah, we have an awesome website, myserenitykids.com. There's a store locator on there. We're in over 10,000 stores nationwide. So probably we're in a grocery store near you. Also, you can buy all our products from the website. We have a great subscription option there to set it and forget it. We're on Amazon, Thrive Market, a lot of online grocery stores, and then any natural food store. We have Whole Foods has all our products nationwide. So you can get to send in Whole Foods,

also Sprouts and natural grocers and co-ops. But a lot of conventional, we're in Walmart, Target and Kroger and places like that. And I think best way to support the mission, nobody's ever asked me that before. I would say, tell your friends. Spread the word. Spread the word. You know, share, you know, I think best way to support the mission, nobody's ever asked me that before. I would say tell your friends. Spread the word. Spread the word.

You know, share, share. You know, we do a lot of education on Instagram. So a lot of shareable posts on regenerative agriculture, on meat, or on sugar, or on, yeah, how to, you know, memes around helping moms trust themselves and, you know, have more support. So you can share us with friends. You can join our email list. There's lots of opportunities there. We have people buy variety packs for, like, their sister or their grandson, things like that.

You know, that's one way to get the word out. Yeah. Or eat them yourself. They're great. A lot of adults eat the pouches. A lot of adults eat the puffs. There's so few packaged food that is genuinely good in every way from the sourcing to the taste. And, you know, our bone broth pouches, I think are delicious. I eat our

turmeric chicken pouch regularly. Like you said, the puffs are great. Yeah, I love it. Oh, well, thank you guys so much for coming on. I'm so grateful for the work that you're doing. Thank you so much. Likewise. Thank you. Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Real Foodology Likewise. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.