Realfoodology - Understanding the Balance of Copper, Iron, and Magnesium in Health | Morley Robbins

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

160: Are you ready to have your mind blown? Our guest today is the insightful Morley Robbins, creator and founder of the Root Cause Protocol. He's here to take us on a fascinating journey, exploring the intricate relationships between essential minerals like magnesium, iron, copper, and calcium and how understanding these relationships can help us break free from illness and disease. Topics Discussed: 0:10:22 - Debunking the Copper Zinc Ratio Mythology 0:18:10 - Copper Toxicity and Hemochromatosis Situation 0:40:10 - Hemochromatosis and Iron Levels 0:42:37 - Anemia and Iron Deficiency 0:47:48 - Copper's Role in Pregnancy and Immunity 0:54:27 - Doctors and Mineral Ignorance 1:02:38 - Vitamin D 1:09:01 - Benefits of Copper-Based Skincare Products Check Out Morley: https://therootcauseprotocol.com/ Buy his book Sponsored By: Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic seed.com/realfoodology Use code REALFOODOLOGY for 30% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic ARMRA Colostrum tryarmra.com/realfoodology enter REALFOODOLOGY to get 15% off your first order. Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off Better Help Get 10% off Your First Month of Therapy by visiting: www.betterhelp.com/realfoodology Check Out Courtney: Courtney's Instagram: @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. She theorized that humans were now functioning on 70 milligrams of copper. That's a 30% loss. So to give listeners an order of magnitude, a fever is a 4% differential. A 30% change, it's almost an eightfold order of magnitude. Doctors are not taught about minerals and we can't criticize them for that. They don't know what they don't know. Hi friends, welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. I'm Courtney, I'm your host. I'm so excited you guys are here. Where do I even begin about today's guest? First and foremost, his name is Morley Robbins. He's the creator and founder of the Root Cause Protocol, which I absolutely love. We talk about this all the time on the podcast, that we need to be practicing root cause medicine,

preventative medicine, looking at the root cause, asking the why, trying to understand what is actually happening in the body and getting to the root cause of it. Why are we suffering? And he's also the creator and founder of the Magnesium Advocacy Group. He received his BA in biology from Denison University in Ohio, and he holds an MBA from George Washington University in healthcare administration.

He's also trained in wellness coaching, nutritional counseling, and functional diagnostic nutrition. He's also known as the Magnesium Man due to his extensive research into and understanding of magnesium's role in the body. His research saw him deciphering the intricate relationship between magnesium, iron, copper, and calcium as a way to free ourselves from illness and disease. episodes that I was so humbled by something that I remind myself quite often is that the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know and how little we all know, right? I mean, that is

something that I love so much about nutrition is that every time it's an onion, right? Every time I peel back a layer, I realized there's so many more layers to be peeled back. And this was definitely one of those episodes where he really opened my eyes to many things. And it was fascinating. I, in the beginning of the episode, tell a little bit about my personal story that if you guys have listened to that podcast episode about the copper IUD that I had in and all the symptoms that I had, I share that personal story of being told that I had copper toxicity or also being called copper overload. And he debunks a lot of that. And he talks about a lot of stuff

that we don't know in mainstream medicine about iron and the difference between iron in the blood versus iron in the tissue. Also the iron that they're adding to processed foods like cereals and crackers and why this is a problem. We also talk about hemochromatosis, which is actually something that I have. And if you don't know what that is, listen to the episode because we go into that in great depth. We talk about how he really believes that we are actually copper deficient and we have too much iron. And I know it sounds crazy,

but just hear him out because the man really knows his stuff. He's very well researched and has the evidence to back it up. He's very well researched and has the evidence to back it up. And it was just a fascinating episode. So with that, let's just get in the episode and let him tell you his self. As always, if you guys could please take a moment to rate and review, it means so much to me. It really, really does. And it helps the show. And with your ratings and reviews, I can continue doing this show, which I love so much. And I hope that you guys enjoy it too. And if you liked the episode, please, if you could take a moment to tag me and post it on Instagram, it really means so much guys. I appreciate you so much. And thank you

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was that I read that you could have something called toxic overload or sorry, copper overload, which I'm excited for you to talk about. And I will tell you that I ended up taking it out after two months because my symptoms were so insane. My doctor herself said, this is crazy. You should be a case study for this IUD because my CRP markers went absolutely through the roof, like to the point where she was really concerned. She was like, this is these numbers are actually very concerning. And I will note, I did find out I have hemochromatosis. So I don't know if that plays a role. Exactly. So I'm curious to hear first of all, I was listening to you on another podcast, and you talked about how, you know, there is this or, or I'll let you put it in your own words. But basically, I was told that there's a copper and zinc ratio and if the copper is out of balance, then so is the zinc and vice versa.

And they work in symbiosis. But I'm curious to know what your thoughts are about that. Yeah, no, it's a fascinating situation that you found yourself in. Part of my work is to debunk a lot of this mythology. And you probably have heard enough of my trials and tribulations, but one of them is the copper-zinc ratio, the zinc-copper ratio. You know, this is the legend of a lot of practitioners. And I always like to go back and find out who started it.

Where did it originate? And this particular one started with an individual named Carl Pfeiffer. And he was a PhD that became an MD. You got to know the sequence. He became a psychiatrist. Well, he became a principal in the MKUltra machine. Wow. So when I learned something like that, I just like, okay, that just changes everything.

And I went back to the source article where he was talking about copper becoming unbound from ceruloplasmin. That's an important thing. Again, if the ratio is valid, why is it valid? Let's answer the question why. And so what happened was copper unbound from ceruloplasmin became unbound copper, then became copper toxic. It was this evolution of a thought, and it's all mythology. And what does that mean? Can we back, what is the ceruloplasma? I've actually never heard of this. Okay.

Yeah. Well, let's pronounce it right, first of all. Okay, please, because I have no idea. No, it's pronounce it right, first of all. Okay, please, because I have no idea. No, it's fine. When I did the audio of the book, the word ceruloplasmin is in here about a thousand times. And after a while, you just start to slur it, and the technician would say,

you've got to go back and do it again. I said, no, it's my book. I can say it any way I want. He says, no, you have to say it right. So ceruloplasmin is, it's the master antioxidant protein in the human body. So we know what glutathione is. It's the master antioxidant inside the cell. What's melatonin it's the master antioxidant inside the mitochondria well ceruloplasmin is the master antioxidant in our body

it's a really big it's a big deal and um to use a frame of reference, people probably have heard of hepcidin. It's the iron hormone, allegedly. What's 25 amino acids? Ceruloplasmin is 1,066. So it's a beast of a protein, but it has eight copper atoms inside it. So I don't want to twist the conversation, but if you've ever seen the movie with Brad Pitt called Fury, he's a tank commander and there's five soldiers inside the tank. Well, there's eight soldiers inside ceruloplasma and it is a very powerful entity that nobody knows about and it doesn't

surprise that in all of your training and all of your work you've never heard of it why because it does so much and it runs on copper and think of think of the copper as like batteries you know you've had you've had toys that didn't work because they didn't have batteries right you just stopped working with them well that's what happens with ceruloplasmin and its its job its primary job is to keep iron and oxygen in regulation because iron and oxygen like to do what create rust rust. They're really good at it. You know, iron is the master pro-oxidant element on the planet. Oxygen, it's not our friend. It's the second most reactive element on the planet. After fluorine gas, so you have fluorine gas, oxygen,

ozone. Hello? People are pumping ozone in their body body not realizing that they're copper deficient and putting putting a highly reactive element in their body may not be the best thing to do but that's a that's a whole nother subject but the point is that um there are certain elements in our diet and in our environment that cause ceruloplasmin to blow up. It loses its structural integrity. Those elements are things like ascorbic acid, citric acid, antibiotics, sugar. Sugar, you know, going back to Coca-Colaola sugar blows up the ceruloplasmin protein and then the copper comes out and the the myth was to create this fear that oh you have unbound copper and it's going to create all sorts of oxidative stress well I have some interesting information about that. One is a world-renowned biochemist at

Johns Hopkins Medical Center. Her name is Svetlana Lutsenko. And I think it was in 2015 or 2016, she decided to delve into this copper toxicity issue. And she measured the amount of unbound copper in the cell, right? Because that's where the problem is going to be. It's inside the cell, right? Well, the term in biochemistry for 15 zeros is femtomolar, and for 21 zeros, it's septomolar. So that means there's 21 zeros before we get to the 0.1.

There's no, there's no one down. It's like, it's 0.21 zeros. One. Unbound copper atoms. It's like, it's, it's ridiculous to even think that it's possible. Bless you. And the thing is. One of my clients. I've never seen this before, but she was doing the routine blood test that I asked people to do. It's called the Full Monty Iron

Panel. And somehow she had gotten a test for unbound copper in the serum. I didn't even know you could do that. I mean, it's like, because that's what the whole theory is, is that copper toxicity is based on unbound copper. And guess what the number was that came back on her blood test? Zero. There was no unbound copper. And they were trying to say that she had copper toxicity, but they couldn't find it in her blood. Right. And so what people need to understand is the expression copper toxicity, again, go back, let's dial it back, dial it back. It was copper unbound from ceruloplasmin. What people need to understand is that copper, as soon as it comes out of its protein, it's going to get bound to albumin, transcuprine, or histidine.

One of those three metabolites is going to grab the copper to keep it from being toxic. Now, it doesn't have the same functionality as when it's inside its protein, but this legend of copper toxicity, it just needs to stop. That's so interesting. I think what was happening in your situation is the mixture of the copper with the hemochromatosis situation. I think that was ramping up your oxidative stress to a fever pitch. That would be my theory. Yeah, that's what I was just going to ask you because, you know, at the time my doctor, so this was probably like four years ago at this point, but at the time my doctor was like,

oh, you have copper toxicity. And what was funny is in the very beginning when we started seeing the numbers rise, we were throwing more zinc at it because, you know, we were told that there's a zinc copper ratio. And the more zinc I took, it didn't have any effect on it whatsoever. The only thing that helped was me taking the copper IUD out. Did you, so you would not, do you recall what your numbers were? I wish, you know what? I wish I had pulled them up before this call. I don't remember. Well, maybe that's call two or three. We'll get into the weeds of it. Yeah. I think what would be fun for you is to do the full Monty panel and to see where you are.

I would love to see that. Yeah. Because I think what's important, do you do blood donations now? I don't. Only because I've been, well, in general right now, I've been giving or not giving. I've been doing so many lab tests like I've been having my blood drawn like two to three times a year just keep up on everything and I'm also doing something called function health from Dr. Mark Hyman. And my doctor was telling me that that's probably enough for me like I don't need to be donating more blood. Well I'll tell you what I'll send, you'll need to give me your coordinates,

but I'll send you the link for the full Monty panel. Okay. And then we can drill in. We can either do it offline or we can do it in vivo. Yeah, I'd be happy to do. Yeah, another podcast about it. That'd be cool. I think your followers would find it fascinating.

And when it comes to the condition of hemochromatosis, you don't want to say, I think we're doing enough blood. We need to know what your numbers are. And the side that most hematologists never think about is copper. And what's really disorienting is copper is the general. This is the work of the traditional Chinese medicine. Like, what would they know? They've only been at it for 5,000 years. But in their world, copper is the general and iron is the foot soldier. Now, as you know, you don't have to be in the military to know that

there are fewer generals than foot soldiers and that the generals have more brass, right? What's brass made of? Copper. Copper. Interesting. Yeah. And so the generals tell the iron what to do. Every facet, every facet of iron metabolism is copper dependent. And you've never heard that. Your hematologist has never said, well, the fact that you have hemochromatosis means that your copper might be a little dysfunctional. It never said that. Which would make sense as to why I had such an extreme side effect to the IUD. Yeah, that's really interesting. Okay. So what's your age?

I'm 38. Okay. And so this was going back a few years. So how many years have you wondered about the copper IUD? I mean, since I got, when was that? So that was, like I said, it was probably about four years ago that I had it. I only lasted two months. My symptoms were so extreme, I couldn't stand it. And so around that time is when I learned about copper toxicity. And that's, so yeah, I'd say about four years I've known. Okay. Well, you've been, there's been a part of your psyche that's wondered about that. I would say maybe even worried about it but why did i react the way i did of course a lot of that was eclipsed by the insanity of 2020 and you know life has never been the same so just so you know i i renamed covet what it stands for

cov stands for coppers banished oh id stands for irons dysregulated. Amazing. And all of the symptoms of COVID and the jab relate to copper iron dysregulation. Oh, that's really interesting. Because do you think that a lot of our population has copper and or iron dysregulation? And I say, and or, because I'm wondering if you have one, do you have the other? Or maybe you just have one? Is that true? Okay. Do you walk to work or carry your lunch? Right? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, they are mere images of each other. And technically, when you really get into the weeds of the research, there is no copper metabolism and there is no iron metabolism. There's copper-iron metabolism.

And is that, okay, because they work in a joint. They work in zinc. This is celluloplasmin and here's copper and here's iron. They're joined at the elbow. Okay. And so does that mean that there actually isn't a ratio for copper and zinc or does zinc play a role in any of this? Just to wrap up that part of the conversation. In my world, zinc is a distraction. Here's what you don't know about. I shouldn't say you don't. Here's what you might not know about zinc. Zinc blocks copper uptake.

That's a fact. Now, let's draw a distinction between zinc that you would have in your diet, pumpkin seeds or meats or things of that nature. That's a different kind of zinc than what you get in a bottle. The bottle, I think, has been weaponized. That's just me being provocative, but I would never, many, many years ago, I used to take zinc. I would never touch it now. Just don't go there. And so zinc blocks copper uptake. George Brewer, who's a very famous physician at University of Michigan, He studied for 15 years. It was from 1978 to 1993.

He studied the use of zinc to prevent Wilson's disease, which is a copper overload condition. That's a really powerful. Wow. So really, zinc stops copper. When you learn more about what copper does, you're going to go, oh my gosh, we shouldn't be doing that. So that's one function. Second is the ceruloplasmin protein has 20 copper binding sites on its exon. Well, that's kind of like, what are you talking about, dude? Come on on that means that it has up to 20 functions

20 copper binding sites means it probably can do 20 different things well one of the most important is to turn plus two iron ferrous ion which is highly reactive into plus three iron, ferric iron, which can be combined. It can be put into ferritin, or it can be put onto transferrin to recycle the iron. That's a really good thing. It's a very important thing. And it's really, really important because every second of every day, we've got to recycle two and a half million red blood cells. So we've been talking now for about 20 minutes, times 60, times two and a half million. So in the course of 24 hours, we have to recycle two trillion red blood cells. And transferrin needs to be shuttling that iron to our bone marrow to make that happen.

So that's a really important function and guess what zinc does it blocks blocks the ferrooxidase enzyme function that's a big problem wow yeah that is a big problem number three there's a uh in this in this book is this really enlarged mitochondria they're not really that big but um but there's a complex four complex four and that's where all the action is that's where oxygen gets turned into two molecules of water and when that happens it releases the energy precursor proteins called ADP, three of them, and they go over to complex five. And complex five is a little mini rotor. It's a nanorotor. It's only spinning 500 revolutions per second. We can't, we can't, you could probably do one revolution per second. Two if you're really good.

Maybe you could get two in a second. 500? Yeah, that's wild. So what does zinc do? It blocks complex four. So in my world, zinc is an assassin of copper. It blocks its uptake. It blocks its most important enzyme functions,

both ferrooxidase and cytochrome C oxidase. And again, we live in this world now where everything's upside down and backwards. Oh yeah, I've been talking about this a lot recently. It's like the truth is being attacked and then everything that's false and evil is... So the fact that you're talking to me says you want the truth is being attacked and then everything that's false and evil is... The fact that you're talking to me says you want the truth because that's what I'm... I'll say whatever I can to make sure people understand the truth, whether people believe it or not, that's their call.

But I'll tell you, what I share is not an opinion. It's a compendium of the research. Because that's really what I'm trying to do is make sure people know what's out there. And by the grace of God, I've been able to read a lot of articles, about 10,000. And for whatever reason, knock on wood, I remember this stuff. That's awesome. Because you were meant to be a vessel of information for it. I guess. And I'm honored to have conversations like this because it's a chance to share this

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I actually had a bunch of people DM me telling me to get you on the podcast. And then I also listened to you on my friend Bethany's podcast a little separate. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I have to get this guy on because I love what you were talking about. And you and I are very similar that we only to get the truth, but also to get people to understand that there's a lot of corporate capture happening right now, and especially in the health world. Because, you know, there's 11 companies that own the entirety of our food system. Big Pharma has a lot of money and they have a lot of influence as well. And what people don't understand is they influence the literature in the medical schools. And so how are we supposed to get the truth when the truth is being skewed by the people that have everything to lose or gain from the information? These are challenging times. These are very oppressive times. You're comment about the food system and the pharmaceutical

system and the farming system. Yeah, farming is bad too right now. People don't realize that based on the research that I've done, all of those three industries, and I would argue they probably have interlocking boards and there's shared ownership and leadership. But who's in the sights of those three companies, of those three industries? It's copper. When you learn about the mineral chelating focus of glyphosate, when you learn about the mineral chelating focus of high fructose corn syrup, when you learn about the copper chelating ability of antibiotics, the fourth generation antibiotics, it's an oh my gosh moment.

Can you explain to people what that means? I've talked a lot about glyphosate. So what does it mean when you're saying it's a mineral chelating, that glyphosate is mineral chelating for people listening? Well, it was developed in the late 70s excuse me late 50s um they were looking for an industrial cleaner the pipes pipes get um built up with waste and they were trying to clean out the pipes and they came up with this substance and they've noticed someone noticed that the runoff was killing the vegetation outside. They went, oh, wow, maybe we have an herbicide. You can't make this stuff up. And so let's spray it all over our food and then eat it, even though it's killing all the plants.

It's just, the thinking behind that is crazy. I know, It is insane. But here's what's important to understand, that mineral chelating ability of glyphosate is measured on a logarithmic scale, like an earthquake. So an earthquake of three is very different than an earthquake of six, right? You're out in California. You don't mind the threes. You get freaked out by the sixes, right? And so glyphosate chelates magnesium at a three. It chelates zinc at a nine. It chelates copper at a 12.

Now, what does that mean? That means that glyphosate is able to chelate copper a billion times faster than it chelates magnesium. And it chelates copper a thousand times faster than it chelates zinc. Again, we're back to numbers that we can't really relate to, Courtney. Does that mean that it's blocking the copper? Because I forgot what chelate means. It's grabbing it. Chelate is a Greek word meaning claw. And it's a double entendre. Sometimes it can be a good thing. But more often than not, it's grabbing it and taking it out of solution so you can't work with it. Okay. So it's removing it. And what's really concerning for people listening that maybe haven't connected the dots of this, what's concerning about that is that we already know that our soil

is depleting at a really crazy rate right now. And so if glyphosate is chelating all these compounds, it's a perfect explanation as to why our food does not have as many vitamins and minerals as it once did because glyphosate is literally taking the nutrients out of the soil and where do the plants get the nutrients? From the soil. That's exactly right. So it takes the minerals out of the soil,

which takes it out of the plant, which takes it out of the animal, which takes it out of the human. People don't realize that there's residue, there's glyphosate residue on their food, and it's all those are going through their system. And it's killing off all the good bacteria in our bodies. It acts like an antibiotic.

It's disrupting our guts. It's really frightening. Well, it is. And it's good that your listeners are aware of it, but it's orders of magnitude. So another that I mentioned was high fructose corn syrup. I would guess that most of your followers know to avoid that, but it's everywhere.

So fructose becomes sorbitol when we digest it. The first thing the liver does is turn fructose into sorbitol. Well, what does sorbitol when we digest it. The first thing the liver does is turn fructose into sorbitol. Well, what does sorbitol do? It chelates 98% of the copper. Oh, wow. That's crazy. And what's the most copper-rich part of the body? One of them is the liver.

Liver? Yeah, absolutely. So it's just, I didn't know any of this stuff. But over the years, it just keeps building up. It's like, there's a wow factor to it. And then you, you, you find out that the antibiotics, well, they're, they're killing the bacteria, right? Antibiotic means anti-life, killing the life, killing the, what, guess,

guess what another name for these guys is? It's called purple bacteria. The mitochondria? Yeah. So, oh, they couldn't possibly be killing her. Are you kidding? Of course they are. Well, and that's the problem with antibiotics. And, you know, I like to remind my listeners this often.

The problem that we have, or well, I would love to hear your opinion, but this is what I always tell people is, look, thank God we have antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection that could literally take your life. Thank God we have them, right? But we are over-prescribing them to a point where you go into the doctor's office and they're like, oh, you have a tickle in your throat? No, let's just throw some antibiotics at it. When half the time, or more than half the time, it could be a virus. So the antibiotics are not even going to get the virus. And then what you did is completely disrupt your entire bacterial microbiome, which is good and bad bacteria and you kill everything. Guess what Mother Nature's original antimicrobe was? Garlic?

Before garlic. Oh, copper. Of course. I've actually heard this. Yeah. I forgot about that. So copper is right up there. I think it's the most important mineral on the planet

because it regulates everything below it. Wow. Okay, so then I'm curious. So let's go back to what I said at the very beginning. So if someone like myself has hemochromatosis and we know that I have a very tricky relationship with copper, what do I do if maybe I'm deficient in copper, but it seems like maybe my body doesn't metabolize copper as well? Well, there's a difference between metallic copper and bioavailable copper. And I think your body was reacting to metallic copper.

Got it. Okay. And I would bet, again, it would be interesting to know which of the defects you had, because it's going to have bearing on how the body's responding to the buildup of iron in your body. You build up iron very quickly in your tissue. Because I have hemochromatosis? Okay. And I know for me, I have a lesser variant of it. It's not on both sides of the gene. It's just on one. I forgot what that's called. Is it heterozygous? It would be heterozygous.

Yeah. Okay. Homozygous would be very different. Okay. Yeah. So my doctor was like, you know, it's better to have this one than the other one, all things considering. But yeah, well, and what was interesting is we, she had not initially tested me for that. And this I found out years and years ago, but we found out because every time I'd go in to get blood drawn, she'd be like, your iron is so high. And then I'd come in a couple of months later and she'd be

like, it's so low. And like, it was just going back and forth. And that's basically what happens with the hemochromatosis is your body. How do I explain this? It's basically your body doesn't fully know how to like what to do with the iron almost. Is that what it is? That's very well said. It doesn't know how to regulate it. Yeah. very well said it doesn't know how to regulate it yeah because because the general is missing the general is mia and so um what's really what there's two reasons why women outlive men did you know that only two reasons i've been hearing this lately okay well reason one women are smarter That's a biological fact. There's more electromagnetic activity in your brain than my brain. I think that it also goes hand in hand with our intuition.

I really believe that. Absolutely. I agree. And women have a monthly blood loss. And you're dumping iron every month for 40 years. It's really important. And the guy who figured this out, his name was Jerry Sullivan. He was an MD, PhD at University of Florida. And he was a pathologist.

And he had this eureka moment when he realized, oh my gosh, the reason why women get heart attacks after they go into menopause is because the iron is building up in their body. And it blew the doors off of cardiology when he introduced that idea. Because no one had ever thought, oh yeah, that's right. They have that monthly bleed, but it's lowering their iron footprint every month. And depending upon when you get your blood test will dictate where your iron level is going to be on the blood test. It's really, really... That's really interesting. Really? When you do a blood work, you always do it on day 15 of your cycle.

Okay. That's really smart. And that's good for women to hear. And then I'm curious too, what you have to say about anemia? Because I know anemia is pretty common in women. Really? I've heard that. How much time do we have? We have about 25 minutes or so left, 30 minutes, depending on how much time you have. Well, I could talk for about four days on this. You're talking to a guy who absolutely refuses to believe that anemia exists on this planet. And that's a very bold thing for me to say.

Again, we got to understand something. Iron is the number one element on planet Earth. 36% of the Earth's composition is iron. That's a big deal, right? That's wild, yeah. And prior to COVID, I would have argued that humans were the most evolved species on the planet. Now, I'm not so sure.

But let's just stay with that idea. To believe in anemia means that the most evolved species on the planet has lost the ability to naturally regulate the number one element on the planet. And that doesn't make sense. Absolutely does not make sense. That's really, that's a fascinating point. Yeah. So there's, what we have to do is, and we can slice and dice this for three or four conversations,

but anemia is different than iron deficiency. Anemia is different than iron deficiency. And they're slicing and dicing it. And then there's a whole other variant called anemia of chronic inflammation. So according to the World Health Organization, most authors will cite their study in 2012. There's some that are now beginning to cite 2018. But the belief is that iron deficiency is the number one nutrient deficiency on planet Earth. Really? Okay. And they're always talking about people in poor areas of the country or women who are pregnant. Do you want to know, again, I go back to the origin.

I like to know, how did these ideas start? Do you know where the origin of iron deficiency anemia started? It was during the First World War. And what's important for the listeners to understand is that at any given time, 1% of society is pregnant. All the rest, not pregnant. Half the people are guys. We can't get pregnant.

But the point is 1% of society is pregnant. So they decided to study pregnant women to evaluate iron deficiency. And truth be known, there's a natural process during the pregnancy where it's called hemodilution, where the hemoglobin level will start at a normal level and drop precipitously during the course of nine months. This has been studied extensively. That research is now being stored with the Ark of the Covenant in the Indiana Jones movie. But the research does exist. And the most recent study was done by Philip Steer,

who's a famous OBGYN in the UK. He studied 150,000 live births. I would have been impressed if he'd done 150,000 live births. He wanted to know what's the hemoglobin level for the mother who's attached to the healthiest babies based on APGAR score. Good thing to know, right? What's the hemoglobin level? If we've got all these really healthy babies, what's the hemoglobin level that's attached to the healthiest babies?

And his research, meticulous research, was it's between 8.5 and 9.5. Most of your listeners want to be somewhere around 12.5 to 13.5. That's considered a really healthy hemoglobin for a woman. But when you're pregnant, starting in the second half of the pregnancy, hemoglobin drops. Guess where it's going? It's going to the baby. Going to the baby. And why does Mother Nature want to do that? Because Mother Nature knows that one of the conserved functions of the mom is to make breast milk. And guess what slows down breast milk? It's called iron. There is no iron in breast milk.

Do you think maybe Mother Nature knows a thing or two? And so what have they done? They've turned infant formula into a toxic waste dump with iron and vitamin D, when in fact, Mother Nature doesn't want either one of them in the breast milk. Why? Because Mother Nature knows that iron will attract pathogens, and vitamin D will prevent retinol from getting into the baby's immune system. And the other part that people don't know about during the pregnancy is that in the last trimester of the pregnancy, there's an enormous download of copper between the mother's liver and the fetus's liver.

So you and I are adults. Our liver has about seven milligrams of copper. So to give the listeners a visual, a nutrient capsule has a thousand milligrams. Seven milligrams is a little tiny bit. And we have about a hundred milligrams of copper in our body, but seven goes into our liver. And when you and I were born, assuming we were born to healthy moms, mine's questionable. I'm not sure about yours, but- I think mine was pretty healthy. Okay. So we're born with livers that have 70 milligrams of copper.

It's an enormous bolus of copper. It's a lot of copper. And what the reason for it, and this is true for all mammals, not just humans, but all mammals have this enormous download of copper. Why? Because the backbone of the immune system is copper and retinol to protect the baby for the first two years of life. So back to the storyline. So anemia, they determined that these pregnant women were anemic because their hemoglobin was low in the second half of the pregnancy. And what did they do? They decided to inoculate the 99% who weren't pregnant.

You need iron. And when did they start adding iron filings to the food system? 1941, UK, US, and Canada. And then in 1969, they increased it 50% here in the States. It's like, wow, we're not talking about organic iron, Courtney, we're talking about organic iron, Courtney. We're talking about literally iron filings.

I've been in therapy off and on since I was eight years old. And this is why I'm super excited to bring BetterHelp on the podcast as a sponsor. Therapy changed my life. Many of you who have listened to my podcast for a while know that I went through a really traumatic event when I was eight years old. I lost my sister to a very tragic accident. And therapy has helped me so immensely throughout the years that I want to tell everyone that I think therapy is so incredibly important for all of us. Life is hard. Life is really hard. And regardless if you have a clinical

mental health issue like depression or anxiety, or if you're just a human who lives in this world, who's going through a hard time, or maybe you've been through something traumatic like me, therapy can give you the tools to approach your life in a very different way. Throughout the years, it's helped me to really see my role that I play in my own suffering. And it's helped me to get out of my own way. It's helped me to see different things in a different light. And of course, it's helped me to process and deal with the trauma that I went through as a kid. But again, I really just want to reiterate that you don't even have to have any trauma in your past to have therapy help you. I honestly think everyone could benefit from being in therapy.

I think it's an amazing thing that we have access to. And this is why I really love BetterHelp. Their mission is to make therapy more affordable and more accessible. And this is an important mission because finding a therapist can be really hard, especially when you're limited to the options in your area. So it's a platform that makes finding a therapist easier be really hard, especially when you're limited to the options in your area. So it's a platform that makes finding a therapist easier because it's online, it's remote, and by filling out a few questions,

BetterHelp can match you to a professional therapist in as little as a few days. And I want to tell you guys, as someone who has gone through many therapists since I was eight years old, not many, but I've gone through enough to know that finding a therapist can be kind of like, you know, finding a friendship can be kind of like, you know,

finding a friendship that jives with you. So if you don't jive immediately with your first therapist, definitely make sure that you give some other therapists a chance because it really is about finding someone that you feel safe and comfortable with. It is so simple to get signed up. All you need to do is go to betterhelp.com slash realfoodology. That's better help as an H-E-L-P.com slash real foodology. Clicking that link helps support this channel. And it also gives you 10% off your first month of better help. So you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps you. I hope this helps you. I'm so glad that you brought this up because I was actually going to ask you about this. I have seen several videos circulating on Instagram and TikTok, and hopefully some of my listeners have seen these videos too and know what I'm talking about where people will pour a bowl of cereal. It's usually I think like cornflakes or something

like that and they'll put a magnet over it and you can literally see the magnet pull out all of those iron shavings. Why is that a concern? I mean, like it, it seems visually like it's a concern, but let's give people like tangible, like. Iron, iron is the master pro-oxidant element on planet earth. It creates rust. It's a, it's one of the most reactive elements on the planet. And we've been conditioned for at least a years, because this research that I'm talking about goes back to the First World War. So it's like 1917, 18, 19. They're doing this fancy research. Here, 100 years later, the meme that runs medicine is you're anemic and you're copper toxic. And the truth is just the opposite. Your iron is stuck in your tissue

because you're copper deficient. The copper is lost in the environment now. Between glyphosate, high fructose corn syrup, and antibiotics, it's a miracle that people have copper. One of the great copper researchers, Maria Linder, she was in your neck of the woods, famous, famous copper researcher. She just passed away October of 22. She theorized that humans were now functioning on 70 milligrams of copper.

That's a 30% loss. So to give listeners an order of magnitude, a fever is a 4% differential. So 98.6 go up to 102, that's a fever, that's a 4% change. A 30% change, that's almost an eightfold order of magnitude and again doctors are not taught about minerals their degree stands for mineral denialist and they don't know and we can't criticize them for that they don't know what they don't know

exactly well and they've also been taught that if they question anything at all in the literature that they were taught in medical school, that they're a quack. Absolutely. And that they cannot question it. No, it's a fraternity. Yeah, and that's very frightening.

Yeah, and most doctors, you may or may not know this, but most doctors are firstborns. What's the significance of that? High achievers. High achievers, but they protect the status quo. They don't question authority. Firstborns do not question authority. You know what's funny? I was going to say I'm a firstborn and I question a lot of authority.

Well, it's unusual. I've been that way my whole life. I don't even know where it came from. It was innate. Yeah. So back to the thing about anemia, because it's a really sensitive subject and people are really protective of it. But what people don't realize is that if copper, if the general is deficient, iron is going to get stuck in the tissue.

Again, we're back to this recycling program two trillion red blood cells a day nobody knows about that that's that's an enormous activity that our body is engaging in 24 7 you know and if and if it if it's not working if the copper's not there have you ever seen the lucille ball uh lucy in the chocolate factory oh i love that episode yeah well that's that's our recycling system and the and the cells are just grabbing the iron stuffing it wherever they can and it's not showing up on the blood work because the conveyor belt is empty so it looks empty because they're only checking the iron stores in the serum, in the blood, not in tissue. There is no tissue marker for, yeah.

And so then suddenly the whole paradigm changes. You go, wait a minute. So this is important. There's a famous researcher. He's still living. He's probably in his 90s now. Bruce Ames. He was at Berkeley. And he and his colleague, Dr. Kililyuk,

did a study of fibroblasts. Those are early cells. And what they discovered is that iron in the tissue that doesn't show up on a blood work, iron in the tissue can be 10 times higher than iron in the blood, a tenfold difference. So that someone could present with low iron in the blood, but they could be toxic in the tissue and it doesn't show. Wow. What are some of the symptoms that someone might have a higher level of iron in their tissues? And is there anything we can do in order to detoxify that? Well, that's a great question. Go to Google and look up anemia. All of those symptoms of anemia is actually low copper and iron stuck in the tissue.

All of those symptoms, the energy, the pale skin, the lethargy. I mean, every one of those symptoms. And the reason why the book has the title cure your fatigue is that there's 32,000 symptoms outlined in the Merck manual. How many of them do you think start with energy deficiency? Probably a lot of them. 32,000. All of them do you think start with energy deficiency probably a lot of them 32 000 all of them wow and so when the when the mitochondria can't make energy the iron doesn't get recycled properly in the mitochondria and guess what the mitochondria are it's the terminal destination for oxygen and iron. And if we're not making it, see, when you're making energy, we're returning oxygen into water. That's a good thing. And we're recycling iron from being

heme to turning it back into heme, but also turning it into iron sulfur clusters. That's a good thing, but it takes energy to do that. And if we're not making energy because we don't have enough bioavailable copper in our mitochondria, then the gears start to slow down and then they come to a stop. And then the symptoms start. And that's the origin of disease. Wow. So, okay. So let's say, you know, someone listening or I'm even curious for myself. So

let's just say for me, if that's something I'm dealing with, how would I make sure that I'm not getting as much iron? So I don't take an iron supplement and maybe I need to be a little bit more on the processed foods that I don't eat a lot of processed foods, but anything that comes in a package, generally they add iron back into. And so does someone need to be more discerning about what foods they consume that have iron in them? And then should we be supplementing copper? Should we be eating more pumpkin seeds? Or pumpkin seeds have zinc. Do they have copper? A little bit. Okay. So I misspoke on that. Sorry. That's okay. No, organ meats, copper, nuts and seeds have copper. So pumpkin seeds do have copper.

But again, we're back to the crisis of glyphosate. If the soil doesn't have copper, the seed doesn't have copper. If the soil doesn't have copper, the grass doesn't have copper. If the grass doesn't have copper, the animal eating the grass isn't going to get copper in their organs. People don't realize the second and third order implications. So the thing is, what's laid out in the book is what's called the root cause protocol. And the whole focus, the paradigm of the RCP is to increase energy. That's the sole purpose of the protocol. And in order to do that, you got to have more copper.

It's got to be more bioavailable copper. And what makes copper bioavailable is retinol. Where's retinol found? In the animal kingdom. It's not found in the plant kingdom. And that drives people crazy. I just discovered, though, that yeast does have retinol. So we're looking at is there a non-animal source of retinol that we might be able to use? But the key is

there are critical enzymes in our body. Enzymes are the ones that do all the work, but these enzymes load copper into other enzymes and they rely on retinol to activate their function. So retinol is really, really important. Well, for years and years, I used to sit in Starbucks early in the morning doing my research and would listen to this litany of orders. Well, give me a skinny latte, skinny latte. Everyone wants a skinny latte. Why? Because they're on a low fat diet. And if you're low fat, you're low to no retinol.

If you don't have retinol, you can't make your copper work the way it's supposed to work. We are still feeling the effects of the low fatfat movement, and it is wild to me. Totally. Absolutely. In my opinion, I believe the low-fat movement was one of the most detrimental things that we've ever done to human health. I would agree with you. That is crazy. And some keys.

Yeah. Right? Ancel Keys. Yeah. That and that Harvard study that in the 70s, I believe it was, they paid off these Harvard scientists to say that it was fat that was leading to heart disease and not sugar, which it was actually sugar that was leading to it. It's just, oh my God, it's infuriating. Because it really affected so many people's health and still is to this day. Yes.

And it gets into a lot of different nooks and crannies. And so the low fat movement, so they were trying to get rid of cholesterol, right? Well, they got rid of cholesterol, they got rid of retinol. People didn't know they were connected. And so now we're dealing with a second crisis, which is called vitamin D, right? And so here's a riddle for you. How did the nation with the highest cholesterol become the nation with the lowest vitamin D? And it has nothing to do with sunshine. That's a great question.

How? Well, what the listener needs to understand is you make vitamin D from cholesterol. So here we have the substrate. The originating substrate is really, really high. And then we have this secondary metabolite. It's really, really low. So cholesterol rises in a body that has copper-iron dysregulation.

So if copper is low and iron is high, cholesterol is going to go through the roof because cholesterol is an oxygen sink. It takes 11 molecules of oxygen to make one molecule of cholesterol. So cholesterol is here. I'll hold this oxygen in storage while you go find some copperdine. And so the cholesterol will rise as a result of that. But then when we get to vitamin D, you want to lower your cholesterol and flip it into vitamin D? Go outside in the sun. You can do it anytime you want in California. And in three nanoseconds, just by opening your eyes, you're changing the conversion of cholesterol to vitamin D. You don't have to be stark naked on the equator for

six hours. That's all hocus pocus. And so the thing is, what people don't know is that in order to make storage vitamin D, 25 25 hydroxy you got to take the precursor seven hydroxycholesterol you gotta have you gotta have magnesium in your liver to make the enzyme work to flip the cholesterol into storage d and guess what is one of the most deficiencies that we see right now in America? Magnesium. Right. And the reason is if copper is low in the diet, which it is, iron will rise in the liver. We've known this since 1928, March at the University of Wisconsin, May at the University of Kentucky. Dr. Hart, Dr. McHarg proved that in 2021. They proved it genetically. And so if you're low copper in diet, high iron

in liver, if the iron is high in the liver, it causes magnesium loss because high iron in the liver creates oxidative stress, which burns up magnesium. I call it the magnesium burn rate. So the magnesium is low and that causes the enzyme function to be low so that the storage D looks low. I mean, it's just, people don't ask the question why. That's the question that's missing. Why is my vitamin D low? Why is my blood low in the, why is my iron look low in the blood? Is there more to the story, doctor? Could it be possible that maybe my iron is stuck? Could it be, doctor, that maybe my liver is loaded with iron and I can't flip the vitamin D? I mean, that's the part people aren't, I think what needs to happen is we need to ask better

questions and we need to demand better answers. Yeah. And you know, you made such a great point right there. And I think it's because since we don't practice preventative and root cause medicine in this country, we are trained to just go to our doctor and essentially just have them hand us medication and be on our way. We are not trained to think that way. I had to teach myself how to do this. I remember when I was in college and I started reading about all this, I had to reframe it and teach myself to think, okay, so my doctor's saying that my numbers look like this, but

like, why do they look like this? What is the underlying root cause? And then we know too that everything works in sync with the body. So if one thing's off, something else is going to be thrown off. And we need to really have that understanding when we go to our doctor and start asking, okay, but why is this happening? And can you help me get to the root cause? Exactly. And the challenge they face, as you acknowledged early on in the conversation, they don't have the training. They have a very scripted education.

They're really smart people. Of course. And they want to help. I really genuinely think they want to help. Absolutely want to help. And all the people I went to school with who got into medical school, they all got A's in calculus, which is, that's not easy to do. And so now they've been reduced to elementary school teachers using a ruler to measure iron, which is one of the most sophisticated metabolic activities in the body. The recycling of iron, turning over 2 trillion red blood cells every 24 hours,

and knowing what to do with all that. That's a very sophisticated part of our physiology. And they're using a ruler? Yeah. No, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Well, I want to be mindful of both of our time. I have two more questions I want to ask you.

One being, I know I kind of already asked you this, but I'm trying to understand for me, and I'm sure my listeners are wondering this as well. Is there a specific copper supplement that you recommend or are there just foods that you recommend? Like, should we be eating organ meats and taking organ supplements? Yeah, that's a great question. I routinely recommend three sources above and beyond your diet.

I mean, ideally find a regenerative farmer who's totally committed to grass and feeding the soil. That's like trying to find hen's teeth. But they're out there. They exist and they're popping up more and more. But yeah. Totally agree. But they're not easy to find.

But find someone who has grass-fed animal products that have organ meats. That would be your best source. But above and beyond the diet, and the diet is somewhat challenging, as we've acknowledged. I tell people to get copper hydrazole. It's made by NIC. It's a great product.

And you can take one or two tablespoons a day. The second product that I regularly recommend people take is from a company called Reverse Skin Aging. They're out in Seattle. And they have this 3% VIP luxury copper cream. And it's based on the GHK copper peptide. And it looks blue, sky blue. It's a beautiful blue inside the canister.

And you can use it transdermally. Women love it, especially for their face. Great product for, again, take the word skin out of their name, reverse aging. Interesting. Yeah. That's what copper does. And then during the last three years as i began

to understand what was really going on i decided to make my own product it's called it's called recuperate and that's my unending wit re-cooperate and so, and it, that has grass-fed beef liver. It has spirulina, has dash of turmeric, and it has copper bisglycinate, which is a very bioavailable form of copper. And it's doing some amazing things for people. And so I encourage people to do all three. That's, that's how copper deficient I think we are as a people to do all three. That's how copper deficient I think we are as a populace. It's very serious. Wow. Okay. Well, I mean, Morley, this has been fascinating. You shared so much information that I've never heard before. And I'm so humbled every time I talk to people like you, because I remember that while I think

I know a lot, there's so much that we don't know. And so it's, yeah, I'm just, I'm so grateful that you took the time to come on the podcast today. And I wanted to ask you a personal question that I ask all my guests at the end. I'm curious to know what your personal health non-negotiables are. And I would assume your number one is probably taking copper every day. Yeah, that would be really, really important. I know a lot of things that I didn't know years and years ago. I guess the way I would answer that question is I try very hard not to put synthetic things inside my body. And that was at a fever pitch a couple of years ago, as you know. So I would avoid things like that wherever possible.

I try to be careful about the diet. I don't smoke. I don't drink. Again, just the, and again, people, some people may know, but maybe your listeners don't know is I grew up in a very sickly family. I mean, my mom was an alcoholic. My dad was manic depressive with schizophrenia. I mean, it's just, it's My dad was manic depressive with schizophrenia.

I mean, it's just, it's like, woo, you know, very intense environment. No, no. It's what allowed me to kind of, I grew up in that soup and it made me curious as an older person. But I think it's really important that people need to realize that the challenges that they face physically were led to be more Newtonian about it. Oh, you don't have XYZ nutrient. You need this supplement. You need that mineral. And what I'm really, really coming to learn now, some 15 years later, is that most of our problems are emotional. So wherever possible, try to minimize the toxic emotions in your world. It's the origin of all the unrest. And so people like Louise Hay are brilliant in what they uncovered many, many years ago, but it's easily overlooked, especially in a very switched on society.

I'm so glad you brought that up. Joe Dispenza is another amazing one if you guys want to check him out, his meditations. It really is about becoming aware of your own role in your own suffering, honestly, and taking accountability for maybe traumas that have happened to you and, you know, having an understanding that while it's unfortunate that, you know, something traumatic happened to you and it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility to remedy it and to take care of it. And your response to it is your responsibility and yours only. And I think we've forgotten that a lot, especially in the last couple of years and especially on social media. You know, people expect everyone else to manage their own personal emotions and we're the only ones that can really manage that. And we live in a very charged time. Society is, and again, I would argue that we have more iron in our body than our grandparents and great-grandparents. And that's a fact. It's a

biological fact because of the food system, because of the misunderstandings in medicine. Oh, you need more iron. And so all that iron creates a more anxious society. That's well established in the literature. And so most people don't know that. They don't know where road rage is coming from. Well, I have a theory. I think I do know where it's coming from. And again, it's just, we live in this very challenging world now. And it's by virtue of conversations like this, that people get a dose of sanity, find out, oh, there's more to the story. Well, let me pick at that thread that got started in that conversation and they can begin to piece it together and make more sense out of their world. Yeah. That was so insightful. Well, Morley, I just want to thank you so much for coming on.

And if there's anything else that you wanted to share with listeners before we go, I just wanted to give you that moment too. What I would suggest, given your situation and your focus, we didn't really do justice to the anemia question. I mean, I could talk for two hours on that alone. I'll have you back on if you want. I'll email you afterwards and rebook you if we want to do a whole episode on anemia. That'd be awesome. And I think what would be fun, Courtney, is to have you do the blood work and we can walk the listeners through the interpretation of it because I think you will find it genuinely fascinating in light of other blood work that you might have had done so I think that'd be good in terms of what else would I want people to know

there's a website rcp123.org there's a Facebook page the MAG Facebook page. There's the RCP group. There's training for those who are interested in, wow, I never knew that. We actually have a 16-week training that is offered twice a year. And there's an RCP community. So there's a lot of different paths that people can go down to learn more about the general. And maybe there needs to be a greater awareness than I would argue that there does. And so I appreciate the chance to have this exchange because it's going to help more people. Yeah, thank you so much again. And where can people personally find you if you want to be found? Oh, yeah, no, I do this regularly. My email address is my first and last name,

Morley Robbins. It's right there on the Zoom. MorleyRobbins at gmail.com. And my phone number is area code 847-922-8061. It always makes the podcast host nervous when I give out my phone number. They're like, you gave out your phone number, dude. I was just thinking the same thing, but I love that. I do it all the time because the people that need to get ahold of me, they'll get ahold of me. Most

people won't dare call because they just know it's got to be important. So I just, I give it out liberally because I know the right people are going to use it. I really appreciate that. And do you have an Instagram or no? The RCP does. I don't personally. I've debated whether to get into Instagram. And it's like learning a whole other language. I get it. It's a beast.

Honestly, at this point, I feel like save yourself. It's an amazing place. And it's an amazing place for resources and stuff. But yeah, it's if you haven't gotten into it by now and you're doing an amazing job already, then I don't think you need to. There's a lot of information on Instagram about the RCP. So people can just just Google, not Google, whatever it is, you know, search RCP on Instagram. I think you'll find a lot of really cool information there. Amazing. Well, again, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Absolutely. Really enjoyed the exchange. A lot of fun. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resonant media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider

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