Realfoodology - "What Happens in the Soil, Happens In the Gut," How to Buy Chicken + Know Your Farmer | Paul Grieve of Pasture Bird

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

EP. 176: Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! I'm thrilled to share my chat with Paul Grieve from Pasture Bird. We unpack the profound impact of regenerative farming on our health, animal welfare, and the planet, revealing the deep connection between soil vitality and the quality of our food. Paul helps us understand the true meaning behind "pasture-raised" and why it's about so much more than a label on your chicken. Through an honest examination of food labeling and the impact of diet on livestock, we aim to guide you towards choices that resonate with your values. This episode is a call for transparency and consumer wisdom in navigating the terrain of ethical food production. Show Links: Kiss the Ground - Documentary Common Ground - Documentary Topics Discussed: 10:45 - How does regenerative farming contribute to a sustainable future 16:20 - Explain the plant-animal relationship in a regenerative farm 22:00 - Common misconceptions about "pasture-raised" and "free-range" 27:40 - How do animals improve soil health for the environment and humans 30:22 - Food Industry's Misleading Labels and Marketing 33:50 - How can consumers ensure ethical and regenerative food purchases 40:10 - Challenges transforming a depleted farm into a regenerative one 45:30 - Motivation and complexities of partnering with Purdue for regenerative practices 51:15 - Pasture Bird's role in the local food movement 57:00 - Personal practices to connect with food and land 58:49 - Non-GMO Switch and Retailer Partnerships 1:04:00 - Nature's Influence on Food Culture Sponsored By: Open Get 30 Days FREE by going to withopen.com/realfoodology Cured Nutrition www.curednutrition.com/realfoodology REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% off Organifi www.organifi.com/realfoodology Code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 20% Off LMNT Get 8 FREE packs with any order at drinkLMNT.com/realfoodology Check Out Pasture Bird: Online - code REALFOODOLOGY gets you 10% off Instagram Check Out Courtney: Check Out My new FREE Grocery Guide! @realfoodology www.realfoodology.com My Immune Supplement by 2x4 Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter EWG Tap Water Database  Produced By: Drake Peterson Edited & Mixed By: Mike Frey

I've finally created a PDF for you guys, a grocery store guide. This is all of my tips and tricks on how to navigate the grocery store in one easy, simple, digestible, for lack of a better word, guide. It is completely free to you. All you have to do is go to realfoodology.com and there's going to be a pop-up there asking for your email and then you're going to get it sent to you directly for free. If for some reason the pop-up doesn't come up, you can also scroll to the bottom of the page. And when you sign up for the mailing list, it will automatically send you the PDF. I have been working on this for

a couple months now. It's a long time coming. A lot of you have been asking me for a simple guide that you can use when you are navigating the grocery store. And it's finally here. I'm so excited for you guys to get your hands on it. So please just make sure to go to realfoodology.com, put in your email and it will automatically send you the PDF. I hope you guys enjoy. On today's episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. It's not plants or animals.

Like plants and animals were always meant to survive in this like symbiotic relationship. If we can figure out how animals can actually feed plants and plants can feed animals, we get back to this more, we call it like an indigenous way of farming, which is you don't need synthetic inputs. You don't need chemicals and fertilizers. And regenerative at its simplest term

means that you leave the land better than you found it. Hello, friends. You are listening to a new episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. And today's guest is Paul Greve. He is the founder of Pasture Bird. If you have not heard of Pasture Bird, you are going to love this company after listening to this episode. We really dive into their ethos, how they got started,

and what pasture-raised really means. We talk about all the different labeling for chickens and the same thing goes for eggs as well. So we talk about free range, we talk about cage-free, pasture-raised, and we talk a lot about regenerative farming, which you guys know if you've been listening to this podcast for a while is a massive passion of mine because it is truly how we get out of this mess in so many ways that we're dealing with right now. The three main things that we're dealing with on a large scale right now, which is the health of the people, the health of the animals, and also the health of our planet. Regenerative farming really focuses on getting back to nature and healing the land, healing the

soil. And it really is based off the ethos that we are only as healthy as the soil is. Our food is only as healthy as the soil is and we are only as healthy as our food is. So it's all connected. Somewhere along the way, we lost this connection with nature. We got very disconnected. We removed plants from animals

and he talks about this, which I think is such a beautiful reminder that nature really did it right. And instead of working against nature, why are we not working with nature? And that requires us to work with the land, work with animals. Animals and plants work together in this beautiful symbiosis. If you're new to this conversation, I highly, highly recommend watching the documentary Kiss the Ground. And I also recommend watching the newer documentary from the Kiss the Ground producers called Common Ground. Both of them really lit a fire under my ass and it explains in such a beautiful way why we need to be more

connected with nature and the importance of regenerative farming and how all of this will improve our lives, the lives of animals and the lives or the health of our planet. I am so passionate about this conversation, as you guys can tell. I'm so excited about this talk. Paul is an amazing guy and I love his company. I really want to support them. Pasture Bird has so generously offered a 10% off code for all of my listeners. So if you guys go to pasturebird.com and use code realfoodology, you're going to save 10%. Tis the season for a giveaway. I'm so excited. We are finally doing another Real Foodology Podcast giveaway and one lucky winner is going to win

an AquaTrue Carafe, which is the glass Carafe AquaTrue water filter that I have. It's a reverse osmosis countertop water filter that is my favorite. I have been using it for two or three years now. And you're also going to get an Air Doctor 3500. The EPA has said that indoor air is way more polluted than outdoor air now, thanks to all the pollutants that we have in our homes. And we'reants that we have in our homes and we're spending so much time in our home that it is so incredibly important to have an air filter so you have clean air.

So one lucky winner is gonna win an AquaTrue and an Air Doctor. And it is so simple for you guys to sign up for this giveaway. All you have to do is go to Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review. That is it. Make sure that in the comment section

after you've written your review that you leave your IG handle, your Instagram handle, because without that, we're not gonna be able to get ahold of you. Now, if you have already left a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, I have another solution for you, but I really do wanna reiterate that this is to help with the ratings and reviews.

So if you have not left one yet, if you guys could take a moment to leave a rating and review and then leave your Instagram handle, it takes about two seconds. If you have already done that, Apple Podcasts will not let you do another one. I have a solution for you. So go to your Instagram and upload any Real Foodology podcast that you want, and then just make sure that you tag at Real Foodology so that I see it. And then just write me a little message underneath and just say, this is my submission for the giveaway because otherwise I'm not going to see it and I won't know that that's your submission. So good luck. I'm so excited about this giveaway and I hope you win. It is the holiday season and

as much joy as this season brings us, it also brings a bit of a chaos with it as well. As if life was not already stressful enough, it just ramps up over the holidays. And you know, sometimes the chaos can feel unavoidable and sometimes the chaos is unavoidable. In those moments, maintaining our own peace and our wellbeing are crucial. Cured Nutrition understands the unique stressors

that we face every day. And this is why they created their Serenity Gummies. This is your go-to ally in managing the complexities of life with ease. These gummies aren't just a treat. They're a blend of science-backed, health-supporting ingredients like full-spectrum cannabinoids, ashwagandha,

reishi mushroom, and L-theanine. I love all of these. I love the combination of all of these ingredients to really just help calm down the nervous system. Each ingredient is chosen for its ability to support your physical, mental, and emotional sense of calm. Imagine unwinding from the day's hustle with a natural alternative to alcohol. I know so many of us, myself included, are rethinking our relationship with alcohol and we're really not wanting to drink as much or at all anymore. And this is a great alternative that can help you to improve your presence, mindfulness, and overall wellbeing.

These gummies are also free from artificial flavors, sugars, or dyes, so you can feel good about feeling good. I personally love the passion fruit. They also have a clementine flavor. It's sweet with earthy undertones. Plus each gummy is precisely dosed to guide me to my happy place. Cured Nutrition is offering an exclusive 20% off discount just for you, my listeners, when you purchase Serenity gummies. So go to curednutrition.com slash realfoodology and use the coupon code realfoodology at checkout. That's C-U-R-E-D nutrition.com slash RealFoodology. And then use the code RealFoodology to embrace a state of relaxation and balance. Protecting your peace is just one gummy away. Take a moment for yourself and find serenity in the midst of life's whirlwind moments because you deserve to support your

wellbeing. I have been a longtime supporter and lover of Organifi, and I'm so excited to announce that they are rolling out a special product line just for kids. They're committed to delivering the same level of quality nutrition and a yummy experience even picky kiddos will love. To kick off this line, they're going to be launching a Kids Greens called Easy Greens, as well as an immunity product called Protect. The Kids Greens is a nourishing and delicious blend of superfoods and veggies that provides essential nutrients, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to bring balance to kids' growing bodies without fillers, additives, or junk. The main ingredients are nutrient-rich veggies, carrot, broccoli,

sprout, spinach, and beet, superfoods like moringa and chlorella, and digestive support like digestive enzymes, probiotics, and fiber. And the Kids Immunity is going to support your child's daily immune health with a berry blast of herbs and superfoods that work to strengthen the body's first line of defense. It has orange and acerol cherry. It has astragalus, which is a potent adaptogenic root used to support and boost the immune system. Also elderberry, which is an antioxidant-rich healing plant that supports the body's defenses against illness. And then of course propolis, which is the bodyguard of the beehive that can help naturally prevent sickness and modulate the immune system. Make sure to go to the website and check out some of my favorites, especially as we are going into winter. I love their critical immune support. It's fast acting immune support

for quicker recovery and a stronger sense of wellbeing. I'm also a huge, huge fan of their liver reset. It supports the liver natural detoxification process with a unique formula to improve liver health, digestion, and energy. I tell everyone I know and including you guys, my audience, that I think everyone needs to be on a liver supplement because we are being exposed to so many different environmental toxins, stuff in our water, pesticides in our food, stuff in the air that all has to go through our liver. And so our livers are really working on overtime right now. And taking something that will protect our liver health is absolutely imperative. They also have green juices. They have

a chocolate gold, which is a delicious bedtime drink that I like to drink before bed. It tastes like hot chocolate and there's like no sugar in there and it really helps you get sleepy and ready for bed. And it's a great bedtime treat. So if you guys want to try any of these products, go to Organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash Real Foodology, or you can just go to Organifi.com and use code Real Foodology. Well, Paul, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. This has been a really long time coming. I am such a fan of your work and your company, and I'm excited to dive into all things regenerative farming. So for our listeners who are not aware of Pasture Bird and what you do, can you give people a little introduction on you and your company?

Yeah. So Pasture Bird is a pasture-raised chicken producer. We were born and raised in Southern California, recently relocated to the state of Georgia. Our mission has really become... Regenerative food is amazing. Pastured poultry is awesome, but it prices a lot of people out. And so trying to focus on accessible and affordable pasture-raised into retail has really been the mission of our company. And then I'm sure we'll get into it, but we're also working on some other things on the side, like a permaculture orchard and some other fun things as well. That's so cool. How did you get started in all of this? Because I think I know a little bit about your story that you didn't grow up on a farm. How did you start raising chickens? Yeah, I grew up in downtown Seattle, full city kid. I love people. I lived

what I would call a normal life. My wife and I lived in Newport Beach for a long time. But I went into the Marine Corps after college and I was in Virginia doing sniper school and I caught Lyme disease and started getting just the autoimmune classic symptoms of brain fog and fatigue and arthritic back and ankles and stuff like that. And this is in 2008 when paleo and CrossFit were really hitting the scene, especially in the military. And I just made the connection for the first time in my life at 22 that what you put into your body has a huge impact on how you feel and how you look and how you perform.

And when I came back to my rack in 2009, my whole family went on this deep dive health food journey of trying to find organic produce and eating paleo and grass-fed beef. And we wanted to find pasture-raised chicken, but we couldn't find it for the life of us, even in the farmer's market or store anywhere. And this is about April of 2012. We were, as a family, just joking about getting some backyard chickens or something. And my brother-in-law sort of disappeared from the room and came back like 10 minutes later and he goes, hey, I just ordered 50 chickens. They're going to be here in two weeks. And it was like, all right, here we go. Wow. And so that's how you guys got started. At the time when he ordered those chickens, were you guys just doing that for yourself? Or were you guys

thinking like, let's make a business out of this? No, 100% like backyard hobby style. Although 50 is more than what you typically start with for a hobby. We have a huge family. And they're like, that'll be enough chicken for a year. we'll just put them in the freezer. And everybody thought it was this big funny thing. My wife's an interior designer. I was working as an accountant. Like I always say, we were really normal people before all this went down. But it was pretty expensive to raise even 50 birds with the feed and with the processing,

the packaging and all that stuff. So I just put something up. Back when Facebook was a thing, I put some stuff up on Facebook and said, hey, if any friends or family wants to try some of this chicken that we're raising, yeah, here's a little thing. Just reserve your birds. And all 50 sold out instantly. And so my family was all mad because we didn't have our year's worth of chicken supply. And we're like, all right, the next month after we harvested, we did the full backyard, harvested them in the backyard, didn't know what we're doing. It was literally a chicken here and an iPad here with a how to process a chicken.

No idea what we're doing. Wow. But these things are deeply... I mean, agriculture is deeply ingrained in us. If you go enough generations back, your ancestors did farming. And so it's kind of in your blood. And we did 100 the next month. And then a few months later, we did 200. And then we really caught a break when we started feeding the Lakers. We started working with the Lakers and the Dodgers

in about 2013. And that's when things started to get a little bit more serious. How did that happen? That's so cool. I don't know if you follow Kate Shanahan or if you've ever seen her on social. She's a really well-known nutritionist, but she was the team nutritionist for the Lakers. Back in the day when Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash were getting towards the end of their career, they got really into ancestral wellness, organ meats, and bone broth. And they really wanted to find the best quality stuff that they could. And so they went on this high search for all over Southern California.

And we got a call. We were still in my in-laws' backyard as a hobby. And the Lakers call and they're like, Hey, we're looking to source product for the team. And we're like, Bro, you can come but you're gonna see our little backyard. This is not a farm. But they loved it and they fell in love with the program and we fed the Lakers for a while. And then right after that, the Dodgers and the Lakers share a lot of nutritional stuff back and forth. And so we got a chance to feed, not the stadium, obviously, but just the players for a while. And that was our first introduction into like, Alright, we need to grow more birds.

These guys, they obviously eat a lot. And then we broke into a lot of the best restaurants and chefs in San Francisco and in LA. Started to really embrace the product in like 2014. And that's just, you know, it was like a backyard thing that sort of stretched out the backyard. And then we picked up about 160 acres of really degraded potato land in San Diego County in about 2016. And that's when things continue to grow. Wow. Well, when the Lakers call, you got to figure shit out and... We're like sports guys. Especially my two brothers both played college basketball.

And so it was just like, honestly, it wasn't even in hindsight, the account wasn't that big of volume or anything. It was just such a confidence boost. You know this as an entrepreneur, you have your moments where you doubt yourself and your moments where you're really good. And this felt like one of those ones where it was like, we got to go up, we got to meet the team, we got to see them train. They really were appreciative. The funny backstory though is... I mean, Lakers are a powerhouse every year, such a historic franchise. So the year that we started feeding them, they literally lost like, I want to say 60 games.

They had the worst record on the history of the franchise. And of course, all of our friends are like, oh, you know it was a chicken, right? Oh my god, that's so funny. Yeah, you're like, oh, and confidence is now gone. Yeah. I thought we had a great product. In the entrepreneur's world, you got all the confidence and then it's gone the next day, so.

Oh my God, that's so funny. Okay, so tell me about this potato farm that you guys took over because I know now, I think what I understand, and actually as I'm literally looking at your farm right now on camera, you guys were able to rebuild it, right? Regeneratively or how did you guys do that? Because I'm assuming with, I know a little bit about potato farming and the fact that they use some of the most toxic chemicals on potatoes that it's like the land is probably

destroyed, the soil. Yeah. I mean, here's the cool realization that we're having like now and everybody's starting to realize is that it's not plants or animals like plants and animals were always meant to survive in this like symbiotic relationship if we can figure out how animals can actually feed plants and plants can feed animals we get back to this more we call it like an indigenous way of farming which is you don't need synthetic inputs you don't need chemicals and fertilizers and regenerative it as simplest term means that you leave the land better than you found it so each year instead of extracting and degrading and looking at the land as a resource like we look at the land as a partner and every year it grows better crops more beautiful you know the land is much more beautiful. You got more species of wildlife

and of fauna and flora growing on the farm. So yeah, I mean, the potato farm was 50 years. And you're right. Potatoes are one of the hardest. So it's not just the synthetic fertilizer. It's the pesticide, the herbicide, rodenticide, which means you're trying to kill squirrels and rats and mice and stuff like that. They do something called fumigation. I'm not knocking potato growers, they're great people and stuff. But fumigation is really chemo for the soil. So they go in and they just kill everything.

Because the idea that some people have with potatoes, you just want a blank slate. You want nothing growing and you're going to bring in all of the external synthetic inputs to try to get the crop to go. And so when we stepped foot for the first time on the land, it was like, you don't need to be a rocket scientist or a PhD in soil scientists. Your boot would sink a foot into the ground. It was dead. And we picked it up in the summer. And even by the winter after some really good rains and stuff, I mean, you had like a few little tiny scraggly weeds. And that was it. It was really depressing. And it was just like, when it would rain, it didn't matter

because the rain would come down and there was nothing to capture it. It would just run off and it would take all the topsoil with it. There was no wildlife out there. There was nothing going. It was just dead. I had someone explain this to me once that really made me understand what you were just talking about with the rain capture. And part of the reason why the soil health is so important is it's the difference of if you pour water on concrete versus if you were to pour water on like a carpet. On like a rug or a carpet, it's going to sink in and it's going to be able to, you know, get the water to the plants and the soil versus the concrete. It just sits there and then like eventually, you know, roll off. Really good point. And it's a good illustration.

It's not even, it's more extreme than that because when the rain comes down, it'll take the soil with it. So it's not even just concrete, like it's taking all the good stuff out of there too. So we have massive like feet and feet of topsoil that have ended up in the ocean and they've ended up off a farm, which is what you need to grow. And that's why people are saying there's 60 harvests left in our country if we keep farming the way that we are, which I don't know. I don't know if I agree with that science, but it's scary what's happening. And the wind, I mean, the wind comes through and it just rips that bare soil out of there too.

The cool thing about animals, if they're raised the right way, they can be a massive ecological benefit to the land. So their poop is the best fertilizer that nature has ever seen. It's better than anything Monsanto has ever come up with. It's better than any synthetic anything. The key is animals have always been meant to move. So we always say there's a reason plants have roots and animals have feet. It's because animals are meant to eat the land, poop on the land, and then move to the next spot. And I would even say that's why poop stinks.

You know, it's like, it's the sign that we're supposed to go away from it. We're not supposed to stay where it is, you know? Yeah. It's like, leave that bee, let it do its thing. We'll move on to the next. Go away. Yeah, exactly. like, leave that bee, let it do its thing. We'll move on to the next. Go away. Yeah, exactly. Get out of here so I can do my thing. Think about like wild bison in the American Midwest, like you were talking about Texas, but think about, you know, the Dakotas and Nebraska.

I mean, these areas had a hundred million bison for millions of years, like grazing the land in an unbelievably regenerative manner. And that's why you have this crazy rich, thick black soil that you can grow anything. Sadly, now the bison are gone and they're growing corn and soybeans in a really degenerative way now, or pea protein for all the alternative plant proteins and stuff like that. But it's been done in a really degenerative way. And they're just extracting all that work that the bison did for a long time. But think about bison.

They're in these big herds, right? Because their protection from predators is really like the numbers. They're going to eat ground, they're going to poop on the ground, and then they're going to move. And they're not going to come back to that spot for six months, a year, two years. And it gives the land a chance to incorporate all that nutrition from the newer into the soil. That's the best fertilizer in the world. The cool thing is, it's never just bison though. We think about that as the keystone species, but if you watch Planet Earth or anything

like that, you always see all these birds that are coming in behind the big animals. And so they're migrating with the bigger animals in this symbiotic thing with the plants sort of going through this like stress and then regrowing even stronger than they were the year before and the soil getting better and better it's like the most beautiful system ever you know and uh and we believe like god created it to be just this thing that's meant to thrive it's not meant to be this horrible struggle all the time it's really meant to thrive so we's not meant to be this horrible struggle all the time. It's really meant to thrive. So we took that principle of chickens moving across the land and we kind of tried to put it into a commercial setup. So now we use what kind of looks like an easy up or a portable shade structure because the birds do need protection from predators, from adverse weather, from eagles

and hawks and owls and coyotes and stuff like that. And they'll live in and around this shade structure. And every single day that moves to a new spot. And that's completely different than like anybody else in the chicken industry, because they are all stationary. And we would just say, if you want to have like a regenerative impact from animals, they have to move. Like that's the baseline. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is really important for people to understand because, you know, what we're hearing right now on mainstream media is we have to go plant-based or we have to eat way less meat for the environment. And it drives me crazy because I know that we need the animals in order to heal the land and heal the soil. They work in a symbiotic relationship together. And unfortunately,

yes, like a part of life is death. And sadly, we have to make our peace with the fact that we do need these animals, not only for our soil health, but also for our own health. It's all symbiotic. Yeah, it really is. Yeah, the same thing that's happened in the soil is happening in our gut, right?

And I'm just the guy that's out here and I've been saying the same thing for 10 years. It's like, we don't need plants or animals. Like that's not the debate. It's we need more regenerative food. We need more nutrient-dense food. I don't care if you want to eat plants or animals, whatever you want to eat, but don't just go say, I'm not eating animals, therefore I'm doing something good for the environment. You're actually not. I'm not into minimizing my negative impact. I want to maximize my positive impact. Yeah. And I would argue actually going plant-based is worse because when you're talking about what you just mentioned, how we're growing these monocrops of corn, wheat, soy, pea protein,

that is absolutely destroying the soil and it's destroying our environment. And we're also, we're being exposed to these really toxic chemicals that are being sprayed on there, like the glyphosate and all the synthetic fertilizers. And I don't think people are fully understanding the impact that that has on our environment. Yeah, it cuts both ways, if we're going to be honest about it, though. 99.999% of animals are still raised inside of feedlots and capos. That's not a good system either, right? So it's like we're messed up on the plant and

animal side. There's solutions on both. And we need to like double down on those and not the greenwashed ones, like the real ones. But to me, animals come back to integration with plants, not either or. Like a lot of what we're doing now, because I told you we moved the farms to Georgia, we're on previously cotton land or previously wheat land or previously soybean land and we'll plant a really healthy pasture there we'll graze the chickens and we graze cattle as well because when that grass gets tall the chickens don't really like it so instead of using a big diesel tractor to mow we bring in a cattle like a herd of cattle they'll mow it down and then the chickens can do their thing um nature we'll do that for like three to five years

and then we'll move off of it. And then they can come in, they can do their cotton and they could do their corn and they could do their wheat. And it's like much more of this closed loop system because you have all the fertility back in the land. It's not perfect.

There's still like major room for improvement, but thinking about that symbiosis and like how nature really set that up, that's a much more hopeful food future than just trying to reduce our negative impact and eat Frankenburgers made of isolated pea protein. That ain't going to work. I'm sorry.

Well, but also, what's better? Reducing our impact or completely reversing the impact that we've made? And that's why I always try to tell people I'm like with regenerative farming and with getting back to nature and how nature and God designed it to be, it's actually regenerating and healing the land, not just like minimizing the impact that we have. So it's like you already made the connection to human health, but it's like if you're really sick, do you want to sustain your body at that point? Exactly. No way.

We need to get healed. We need regeneration. That's the same idea with the land. And it's... Yeah. Honestly, people are like, oh, why do you do regenerative instead of conventional or whatever? And I'm like, my office is so dope. It's so fun to be in a regenerating system, even though the land that I'm on right now is only a year into the journey. It's already so much more beautiful and it smells

good and it feels good. There's an amazing energy on land that's on the upward trajectory. It's just a way more fun way to farm. And you have, I think, the average age of a farmer is like 65 right now. And it's only going up and i'm really convinced that it's because farming's kind of depressing um you walk into a cafe or a feedlot like it stinks and the animals don't look that happy and it's just like it's not enjoyable and i don't think that we're creatures that are designed to be in those kind of environments like it just sucks but being out here with animals that are stoked and trees that are designed to be in those kind of environments. Like it just sucks. But being out here with animals that are stoked and trees that are being fed by animals

and we get to go eat fresh peaches and I was just grazing on like blackberries and raspberries. And I don't know, it's just like feels really good and I'm happy to raise my family out here too. Did you know that your nervous system plays a role in nearly every aspect of your health and wellbeing? No matter what you eat, how much you exercise, how skinny or young or strong you are, none of it matters if you are not breathing properly. This is actually a quote from James Nestor, the author of the book Breath.

And I will tell you guys, this is something that I have realized in my own life. When I'm really anxious, I don't take full deep breaths. I take these really shallow breaths. And as a result, it only creates more anxiety. So really becoming aware of your breath and practicing breath work is the quickest way to shift your state and improve your mood. And you only need five minutes a day. I will tell you guys, this is something that felt super daunting to me and I ignored it for a long time because I just thought, okay, this is too much for me. It's going to take too much time and it probably doesn't really work. But after downloading the app Open and using some of their breathwork classes and going through some of the meditations, I have to tell you that

it is completely life-changing. Open is a science-based practice to help regulate your nervous system and it really does change your life. If you're a beginner, the app is really great because it helps you to learn different breath work techniques to help you get to your desired physical and mental state. Also, if you're not a beginner, it's also just a great app to keep you accountable day to day. When we regain control of our operating system, we can unlock deeper sleep, better focus, less stress, natural energy, and overall vibrancy. I mean, it's truly life-changing. Where are my Andrew Huberman fans? I know there are a lot of you guys out there. He found that brief, brief meaning like five minutes of breath work, outperformed meditation for improving mood and autonomic regulation and lowering stress.

So if you want to reduce stress, get better focus, get better sleep, and you want to get on my daily routine, you can get 30 days free of open by visiting withopen.com slash realfoodology. Again, that is 30 days free by just simply visiting withopen.com slash realfoodology. That's W-I-T-H-O-P-E-N.com. Well, friends, we are officially in hot chocolate season. I am declaring hot chocolate season and I am so excited because that means that I get to go back to drinking my nightly salty hot chocolate from Element. I personally know that whenever people first see that Element has a chocolate salt, they get icked out by it. Guys, trust me, you do not want to sleep on this.

And during the winter, they come out with other flavors. So far, I have seen the caramel chocolate salt come back. I am praying, fingers crossed, that they bring back the mint chocolate salt. But do not quote me on that because I don't know yet if it's coming back. But it is so freaking good. One of my best friends actually drinks the chocolate salt in her water every day, just with cold water. I have not tried that yet, but it sounds like it'd be pretty good. But trust me when I tell you, if you put a little hot boiling water with either the chocolate salt or the caramel chocolate salt, you will not regret

it. It tastes like a salty, sweet, the most delicious hot cocoa you've ever had. It is insane. Just please trust me. Write me on Instagram. Let me know after you have tried it. It is so good. And if you have any concerns about the sodium levels in Element, I highly encourage you to go back and listen to my episode with Dr. James Dinnick.

He wrote a book called The Salt Fix, and he talks all about how we actually got salt wrong and how imperative salt is for every day. I will note, guys, it is important that if we are consuming this amount of salt to be working out every day, just making sure that you're sweating, moving your body, getting your lymph moving, and sweating out toxins. I don't think we talk about that enough, just how important it is when we're hydrating. Also to make sure that we are sweating. If you want to try Element today, that is L-M-N-T. Make sure that you go to drinkelement.com. Again, that's drinkelement, L-M-N-T.com slash realfoodology. And you will be able to claim a free Element sample pack when you make a purchase through that link. The sample pack includes one packet of every flavor. This is the perfect offer for anyone who's interested in trying

all the flavors or who wants to introduce a friend to Element. They offer no questions asked, refunds on all orders. So if you don't like it, you get to send it back, but I'm pretty sure you're going to love it. So if you guys want to try Element today, again, that's drinkelement, L-M-N-T dot com slash realfoodology. Well, what you were just describing is it's so full of life. It is so full of life. There's animals. I'm sure there's like birds, you know, cawing. And you can see all the animals and the life-giving everything.

You know, like it's green, I'm sure, and beautiful and pretty. Whereas like you look at like a CAFO, for example, I mean, it's death, you know, like the soil. Yeah, it looks like a prison. The soil is really unhealthy. There's probably not a lot of green around there. It's just a lot of brown and a lot of like really unhappy, sad cows. So like, of course, I mean, and then you think about too, I think the application of pesticides and just how it's affecting their bodies. It's devastating. Let's talk about the different labels because I know people get really confused on this.

And I believe that some of the labeling is confusing for a reason because it's a lot of marketing. And so what's pasture-raised? Let's talk about the different labels for chickens and yeah, dive into that. Yes. I mean, I always say like we could play the game, you name the label, I'll name the loophole. Marketers are super smart and they figure out a way around everything. So like there's really anything out there. This is a really depressing part of the message, but it's like marketers have gotten a hold of all of it. And I would even venture to say like a lot of the certifications are the same people that are getting certified are the ones that are paying for the certification. So how's that really work?

Yeah, they're all scratching each other's backs, unfortunately. Yeah, it leaves a lot to be desired. Pasture raised, in my opinion, that means the animal was raised on pasture. It doesn't sound like rocket science, but that's in direct contrast to more than 99% of the product that's labeled pasture-raised right now. The product that's labeled pasture-raised right now, I won't name brands on this, but we can talk about that offline. The way they get around it is something we call the access loophole. So they will say something which sounds really good.

And they'll say like, unlimited access to 800 acres of pasture and forest or unlimited access to 108 square feet per bird. And that sounds great, right? What you don't realize is that if they don't use it, who cares if you had access? Exactly. I had access to go to Harvard. I didn't go so I don't call myself a Harvard grad. It seems really disingenuous if you break it down, but they're all doing it. And so even the pasture-raised labels are really chock full of bullshit, basically, which sucks. Because you have well-intentioned, conscious consumers that

are trying to buy a regenerative and they're trying to do nutrient-dense. And they'll say, yeah, but look at the yolks on these pasture-raised eggs. And it's like, no, it's literally a synthetic feed additive that they put in there. They put the orange yolk. Like, it's nothing special. One of the biggest pasture-raised egg companies right now. If you go deep on their website, they'll show you that 90% of their birds are literally locked inside with no outdoor access for the foreseeable future because of this avian influenza thing that's been going on for years. But people still, it's not really their fault, like you said. I think that they're trying to do this.

And it's the most depressing thing in our space when you have people trying to make a difference and eat better food for their family, and they're getting faked out by greenwashing. But sorry for the tirade. To us, pasture-raised means exactly what I'm looking at. The animals are living, walking, eating on pasture 24-7 every single day. For chickens, when they're little baby chicks, they can't go out to pasture just yet because they're like these fluffy little guys with

no feathers and it's too cold. So we'll keep them in with a brooder for about the first 18 days and then we'll bring them out to the field after that. Cattle, we would say, are born on pasture, they live on pasture, they die on pasture ideally. That's the perfect setup for cattle. One of the big misnomers with chicken, they don't only eat pasture. They're a monogastric animal, so they can't just eat grass for their whole diet. They do need to be supplemented with some type of a cereal.

That could be corn and soy. That could be millet or barley or different things. But they need something to get them up to a proper weight and have nutrition to lay eggs. So for us, we opt for only non-GMO glyphosate-tested corn and soy and wheat and peanut mix. That'll get them up to that weight. The big thing for me is I went into it trying to produce a paleo chicken because I don't eat soy in my diet at all. I really reduce the corn for the most part too. But what I learned is they have this special organ that's called a gizzard. And the gizzard is super cool. It takes the grain,

it actually breaks open the grain, and it'll actually literally sprout and soak the grain before it goes digested into their system. So even though I have a really hard time with corn and soybeans, our chickens get non-GMO corn and soybeans, and they do really well on it, and they're fine. Direct contrast to ruminant animals like cattle or sheep, which are ruminant, which means they're only like a herbivore. They should never get any kind of grain, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Their stomachs were designed for grass. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I'm so glad you went off on that tangent. So you were like, sorry for my tirade. No, I loved it. Because people need to know this, you know, because people need to really understand what we're up against so that they know which companies and which brands that they need to be

putting their money into. Because unfortunately, there is a lot of greenwashing happening. And I could not stop thinking about this as you were talking about what they're doing with pasture raise. So another thing is with free range, when I started looking into all of this, I was horrified to know that on the website, the USDA website, they say that in order to say that your eggs are free range, you have to allow access outdoors to a certain square footage for your chickens. And when I started looking into it more, it was exactly what you said, where a person or a company can claim to be free range and have this massive warehouse and have this tiny little door where only one hen can get out at a time with a

tiny little like backyard area where most of the chickens, if you can imagine, like I encourage everyone listening to go and Google what a chicken warehouse looks like. They are massive. And they can claim that they are free range by just saying that they have the access to get outside. And most of these chickens, if they're on the other end of the warehouse, don't even know that that door exists and probably never even make it outside at all. And that is where I'm like, this is why I'm such a proponent for pasture raised because they can say free range. They can say cage free. Cage free still just means that they're living on top of each other. They may not have bars around them, but they are so packed tight in these warehouses with no access to outdoors that like

they're not healthy. Yeah. So a chicken barn, chicken house, what we would call it 600 foot long 40 feet wide 24 000 birds inside of each one oh my god and it's exactly as you said so free range technically means that those birds were free to range outside and the crazy thing is as the usca has it right now free range and pasture raise are considered synonyms. So the exact system you just described with 24,000 birds with a little tiny window, maybe, if the farmer decides to open it for that day, nobody's checking it, but if they decide to open it for that day, that can also be labeled as pasture raised right now, which is just super sad. And that's why I apologize to almost because it's so depressing when well-intentioned

people have been voting with their fork, literally doing the right thing, voting with their dollar and their fork and trying to feed their kids. And a lot of people are dealing with serious health issues. And it's like when marketing gets in the way of that, it just makes me mad. I feel better about a factory farm that is 40,000 chickens on top of each other, but they're being honest about it, than I feel about the fake one that's greenwashing and telling people it's one way and it's something else. Me too.

Me too. So knowing this and knowing that there are a lot of marketing gimmicks happening, how do people know that they're getting a good pasture-raised bird? You don't. That's, I think, why it's a depressing message. Because I don't have a hack. I don't have a solve. I don't have some way that you can go. The old school adage is like, know your farmer. Nowadays, I mean, it is cool. We can have this conversation over a podcast and people can watch it. And it's not that we know each other personally,

but now you know our heart, you know our story, you kind of know what's going on. Granted, I could say whatever I wanted on this, and anybody can say anything they want. The real, real, real way is to either grow your own or to physically visit the farms that you want to go to, because we can all show anything on Instagram too. That whole world is ridiculous, so don't just trust whatever pictures are posted either.

Our big thing, we're trying to pioneer this idea of transparency in food. And a few years ago, I just got this like, I was just kind of troubled. So the way we raise animals, there are 6,000 birds in a flock. They're in this portable shade structure. They have access to go exterior. But the reality is chickens like food shade and water. And they don't really want to go out in the predator. They're not a cow that's going to wander out in an open field. So you have 6,000 birds and plenty of space for them, but still, it's like a bunch of chickens inside of this area. The cool thing is it's got solar-powered

wheels on it, so it moves itself to a new spot every single day. And that is amazing. But I don't want to put out this stupid vision that's not reality and have people fall. I'm not playing the game. So we just... We're like, just listen,

buy an iPhone with a data plan separate from anything. And every week, we just go in there and we put the phone in on a live stream and we just run it for all to see.

And it's cool, but it's also different than what people think because they a lot of times the the industry has conditioned us to think pasture-raised means like this one animal out in the distance like one that's not what it is either like it's commercial scale it's they're on pasture they're living a great life but like it's a lot of birds you know and i want people in the military we said inspect what you expect you know. I don't want you to buy it if you're not comfortable with it. And I'd rather have you,

if you see it and you do love it, then buy it. But I want you to have the opportunity to see it for yourself. We've also hosted 30,000 people for farm tours since the inception, real in-person farm tours. We have a lot of just transparent marketing

on the website. And so we're trying to lean into all that stuff. But the real answer is like, you got to know your farmer. And I know that sounds super corny and everybody says it, but that's the only real way that you can do it. Yeah. And I mean, look, there will be people listening to this or just people in life that are like, I don't really care. I'm just going to trust it for face value. And then there are people that are like, okay, I'm going to take you up on that. Like I'm going to book a tour. And you know, that's what I love about this is just at the end of the day, it's all about informing people, educating people, giving them a choice to be

involved as much as they want to be. And I will say personally, over the years, just working in this industry, I have done so many farm tours and been on so many ranches. I talk about this all the time. I personally know the founders of Force of Nature. I've been to their ranch twice now. Every time I go, I am just like, oh, I have so much love for what they're actually doing and be on the land and be confident in knowing that they're doing it right. And also just knowing their hearts, like you said, like knowing where they're coming from, knowing their stories. And that's what I love so much about you, how you've been going on podcasts and you guys have your website and you share your story and you're very honest. And, you know, it really just comes down to, like you said, like getting to know your farmer. And then also if you really care, I would say too, if you're really concerned about it, maybe you don't even necessarily have to visit the farm. Maybe just a simple email being like, would I be able to come tour your farm? And just seeing what they say.

I always say that's my hack. Out of anything, I'm like, there's no real way to hack it. But my one thing is, if you're in a farmer's market, or you find a brand that you like online, just ask if you can. If they say anything other than, please come. I want to show you what I'm doing. If it's anything other than that, steer clear. Same thing at the farmer's market. There's so much nonsense that goes down at the farmer's market.

And just because it's there, it doesn't mean it's legit at all. But when you go to the farmer if they're not like pulling out their phone and like there's like kids and animals like that's the only thing on their phone like steer clear you know like and if they're not saying we'd love to have you out we'd love to you know come out all that like it's a bad sign you know i totally agree and it's like that alone is your answer you don't even have to make the trip it's like even if they're like yes please you're like okay great i'll figure out a time whatever and you know you don't have to go like that alone should give you enough

confidence. So I love that you say that too. But farm tours are fun. Oh my God, they're the best. I feel like they're a huge investment. But if food is medicine, then farmers are your doctor. How much effort would you choose to putting your faith in a doctor if you're going to have a major

operation done? Joel Salatin, one of our mentors always says, think about how much time you spend trying to figure out who's going to do your oil change or who's going to change your tires. It's like you're at least going to do a little bit of background research and check the Yelp and do all that stuff. So yeah, you could spend a little bit of time. And if you do get on a farm, it's usually a pretty good experience. You could bring the kids and you bring your friends and it's usually pretty good experience. Like you could bring the kids and you bring your friends and it's like, it's usually pretty cool. Yeah, I love that. I'm so glad you just brought that up.

I actually just talked about this last night with someone. It's so interesting the disconnect that we have with our food right now as a society, as humanity, because people will spend, I mean, months researching a new car or like a new device that they're going to buy but then don't even think twice about where their food is coming from and who's feeding them

and that is the literal basis of our life on this planet part of my mission is to hope that we I can help people reframe our entire relationship with our food I mean this should be something that we be that we're researching this should be something that we're looking into and making sure that we're... I tell people this all the time, put your money into businesses that are actually doing right by your health and by the planet, because this is how we change our broken food system right now. Yeah. We have like... I always tell this story, but we have really cool packaging now. But we're like 10 years in. Before that, I would always say, the cooler the packaging, the faker the product. When it comes to meat at least, when you get that gnarly looking package, it's like the little white sticker,

like a butcher printed or it's like handwritten. I'm like, that's a good sign right there because not a lot of really good food at scale. And that's one of the things, that's why we really built Pasture Bird too, was before us, there was nowhere you could get really good chicken in the grocery store. You couldn't get it at a decent price point. It's like as much as we all want to do all these great things with our food and our dollar, there's an economic reality to having limited income and trying to do the best you can and all that too. So in 2015, we got really serious because none of us really came up with money. But we got really serious about how can we make this more accessible and more affordable because I don't want regenerative or nutrient-dense chicken to be rich people food. Yes. I agree.

That's just the condition in my mind. Yes. Because I don't want to produce something like my parents couldn't have afforded growing up. I want to be able to make it an option. It will never be the cheapest option. But how do we get it in striking distance where it's like, instead of just never being possible, maybe you can do a whole chicken once a week or once every two weeks and you can make that trade up.

And actually what we're doing right now is we're even coming slightly under the organic price point. And so I feel like a lot of people buy organic. That largely looks like the system that you just recently described, though. 24,000 birds, a little bit of outdoor access. As long as the USDA stamps that the feed going into that was organic, that's organic chicken. It's nothing that different than a regular program. But with pasture, it's like these animals are living a vastly different life.

It's like the invention of plumbing. They're getting off their manure all the time. They're eating grasses, bugs, seeds, worms, flowers, weeds, grains. It's fresh air. It smells really good in the coop because the animals are moving all the time. They're exercising a lot more. They have three times higher omega-3. They have 50% higher vitamin

A and vitamin E. They have 20% lower saturated fat because they're exercising and they're living like a chicken's meant to live. And so you end up with, in my opinion, a really good value for the nutrient density you're getting per dollar that you spend. You end up with a really good value there. Yeah. Yeah. And they're getting vitamin D from the sunlight. And also just, we know that a healthier hen is going to be, or sorry, a happier hen is going to be healthier. We just know that. So, I mean, that's so cool. So back to the labeling a little bit. I know a lot of people get confused by this because on

packaging, they'll say hormone-free on chicken, but they don't use hormones in chicken, right? It's not legal? Chicken's been outlawed. Hormones have been outlawed with chicken for the last, I think, 40 years, since the 1980s. And I mean, trust me, I'm literally serious. You give me any label, I'll tell you the workaround for it. Grass-fed, grass-finished, pasture-raised, cage-free. I mean, every single one has their thing. Has their workaround, yeah. Yeah. So what about antibiotics? How do you feel about those? How often are those used? Here's a weird stat. A chicken can have antibiotics almost its entire life and still be sold as antibiotic-free. How does that work? How do

they get around that? The reason is because what they're saying, this is not what anybody thinks, but what they say that they're saying is the meat tests below the FDA's parts per billion of antibiotic residue. And that means that the chicken is antibiotic-free. It means the chicken could have had antibiotics from while it was in the egg

until three days before it was killed and still be sold as antibiotic-free. This makes me so mad. And it's reminding me now that I've seen comments like that before because I've done videos saying like, you want it to be antibiotic-free. And I'll get these people commenting saying, oh, but our chickens, whenever we test the meat, there's no antibiotic residue in there. And I'm thinking, also, how do you measure that? Because you can't measure the

effects of having antibiotics in your system for that long. It's completely disrupting the gut microbiome. It's the FDA. The same people that you would say are like messing up the food system. I mean, the whole thing's so nasty. Like, then they invent no antibiotics ever. And that's meant to cut. So a lot of these things are started for like a good reason. Organic was started for a great reason. Like the founding fathers of organic would say we veered very far off the course from what they had originally intended.

But it was started with like this beautiful heartbeat. So after antibiotic free got messed up, then they started no antibiotics ever. So that's supposed to mean that the animal never gets any kind of antibiotic. Well, what happens after that? They start classifying things as non-antibiotic drugs. So they could say it's no antibiotics, but now they're getting drugs, they're getting ionophores, they're getting other synthetic chemical additives that aren't technically antibiotics, but they're still coming through. I mean, everything has a loophole. Well, and I was told once too,

and I'm curious to know how true this is, but I was also told that they can say that it's no antibiotics ever, it's antibiotic-free, but then they're not talking about all the other pharmaceutical drugs that they're giving them. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Okay. By the way, antibiotics and drugs are expensive. When you're raising hundreds of millions of chickens every year, it's not like you want to give them antibiotics. So the industry would be the first to tell you, it's not like we want to do this, but think about the warehouse that you just talked about. Put 24,000 people inside of a warehouse and have them,

you know, not like the restroom is the ground. Do you think that we're going to be okay without like antibiotics and drugs to keep us like from dying? I mean, you almost need that. You need some kind of intervention if you're not going to move animals around. I mean, that's one of the big things is like when the animals are moving off of their poop every single day onto that clean environment, that's where they sleep. That's where they eat. I mean, to have that clean is really like of the utmost importance. And I mean, these barns are cleaned out once a year or once every two years. So you can imagine what it's like inside. And it's not a knock. I always say this stuff. Of course. I'm not knocking the people that are doing it. I think that stationery can be done really well. It can also be done really poorly. I've seen pasture done really well and really poorly too. So I'm not saying you can't do it that way. I just want

people to be transparent about it. That's my main thing. Yeah. Well, and I think about too, what if you're like a third generation chicken farmer and this is all you've ever known and maybe you're scared to change it up or you don't even know that there's really anything that you can do. I mean, we never know, but this is why the education piece is so important because the more people that demand better of their food, the more people start putting money into people like you and companies like you, the more the industry shifts because these other farmers are going to be forced to change. They're going to go, okay, people don't want this anymore. People don't want these sick

chickens that are barely surviving on pharmaceutical drugs. Yeah. We partnered with a company called Purdue Foods, who is the largest organic chicken producer in the country. They came to us in 2018. Really interesting because we were a tiny company still. And they said, hey, we're really interested in doing regenerative and pasteurized. And I was like, okay, sure. I was deeply anti-Big Ag. They're the problem. I'm not interested in talking to you. And I was like, okay, sure. They followed up six months later. No, we're really interested in doing regenerative. We want to do it authentically. And I just didn't really know Purdue. I was a West Coast guy my whole life. They're much more

on the East. But the more we dug into it, the more we realized they were the first ones to really do large scale organic. They're the first ones to really do large scale, true no antibiotics ever. And they're a big ag company and their interest is really genuine. And so it was just really weird crossroads for us where we were like, well, wait a second. If we want to leave the food system better for my kids and for their kids, small scales rat. I'm on a small farm right now. I love small scale farming.

But if we want to move the needle in a big way, big ag has to come to the table and start looking at things differently, doing things differently too. And so when we got the opportunity to basically jump in with Purdue and start helping them develop a true pasture-raised system, it took a lot of thought and prayer to be honest. But after interviewing a bunch of people, so they also had a really good regenerative beef program. They have Nyman Ranch, which in my opinion is the best national program that's out there. They treat the farmers really well. The hogs aren't raised outdoors or anything. Not all the time because they're up in the north. But they treat the animals well. And they treat the farmers really well. And it's a nutrient-dense product. And they're part of Purdue as well. And so we got a chance to meet all those types of folks.

It was like, you know what? If we're going to team up with somebody, Purdue is definitely the right choice. And it's been really cool. So it's been five years almost of working with them now. I would say our standards have only gone up. But it gives me hope that some of these companies, they do have a soul. And the reason I brought it up is because it's what you're talking about. If consumers are demanding something different, they're not stupid. They want to produce what people want. The problem is, we've asked for cheap chicken for 50 years in our country. And so guess what they're going to do?

They did an amazing job doing what we asked them to do. Now that people are asking for nutrient density, and they're asking for things that are good for the environment, I'm proud that they're genuinely wanting to do it authentically. Because they could greenwash it tomorrow if they wanted to. And we would all be worse off for it. So it's been an interesting ride for sure. That's amazing. I'm so happy to hear that and to have you share that because I get a lot of messages from people where a very beloved organic natural brand will get bought off by this large corporation. And then you'll see everyone making reels, like we have to ban this company now,

like don't support them. And people will DM me and be like, oh my God, did you hear about so-and-so being bought by so-and-so? And to be honest, my response to them is the same every single time because I actually personally know some people, the founders behind some companies that have been bought out by larger corporations. And I know the amount of care that

has gone into these contracts with the companies, ensuring that the values stay the same. Also the level of participation that they still have in the company. So I try to remind people that it's not always bad. Like, yes, of course we want to make sure. And it totally depends on the contract and like how involved the people are. But like, generally speaking, a lot of these people that start these smaller companies, like you yourself, you started this because you want to actually make a difference. You're not just going to sell off to like Hormel or something, you know, like and let them destroy whatever you built. Yeah. And a lot of times people be like, oh, you sold out. And I'm like, you got it completely wrong. You're trying to help people. I'm trying to amplify impact right now. And this is the best way I can do it. We have unbelievable

restricted access to processing. Our cost of chicks was so high being an independent poultry company. Our cost of feed was out of control, was not reliable, not consistent. So it was like, either we need to go out and raise about $100 million to build out all of our own infrastructure, or you can go partner with somebody who's already got all that stuff and then just innovate on the one part that really needs the most help,

which is the live operations, right? And they've been a pleasure to work with. And I do think it's a model that has to happen. If we want to truly see the food system left better, even Hormel, they own Applegate, right? And Applegate is one of the beloved clean meat brands that's out there. And it's like, I do think we need...

If the companies are genuine, that's the important caveat. If they're fake and they just want to take your brand and screw it up, that's not what we're going for. And I would have never stuck around with them if that was the case. I'm not on any kind of a contract. I can go do my thing whenever I want. But I do think this has the best chance to have the biggest impact by teaming up with somebody who has all that stuff. Yeah. And as a result, you're able to probably cut down some of your costs for the consumer. So it's also a win-win for the consumer. Yeah, significantly. So before working with them,

we couldn't do non-GMO. And I hated it. I hate glyphosate with a passion. I hate GMOs with a passion. But because we didn't have access to the feed supply, it was either do organic and price everybody out. And the organic, a lot of it comes from overseas and it's fake and it's stamped at the border. There's a lot of problems with organic too. Or you have just doing the GMO stuff. And I was like, this totally sucks. And we ended up in GMO feed for a little while.

But the day we jumped in with Purdue, it was like, we switched to non-GMO, which is a really expensive thing to do normally. And we lowered our price by like 50 cents a pound. And I was like, all right, this is where this is going. This is super cool. Yeah. That's so cool. People really need to hear this because it's not easy. And I remind people of this all the time as well. When you find brands that are really doing well by the consumer, support them because we don't have a food system set up that makes it easy for brands to do it healthy.

Totally. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, we were always in food service. Like we couldn't afford cool packaging. Like you have to play the game if you're going to be in retail. And we just couldn't do it independently. And it's been really cool. So we've partnered with Sprouts as one of our core retailers. We work with Gelsons

and we work with Jimbo's and stuff in California and a few other small retailers in California. But being able to put the product into Grocery Fresh in a format that people are used to. So you can buy your boneless,

skinless breasts and your thighs and your drumsticks and tenders and stuff. And the packaging does help to tell that story. It's like, none of that was possible without having a partner. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I'm super stoked for you guys. So let's end on a high note for everyone that's like, oh man, how do I navigate knowing all of this? And I know we said, get to know your farmer. Are any websites or maybe like people that are are providing resources for people to find these better higher quality meats and food in general yeah i mean start with the passion so it's like i i highly recommend the

movie like kiss the ground and common ground they're both awesome they're bangers and i think that's that's like the spark that you need to really care about this stuff. If you're already on the train, you're like, Oh, this is my thing. I have to do regenerative. I'm a big fan of getrealchicken.com. So one of the things I always say, I'm like, don't buy Pasture Bird, unless you have to. I'm happy to sell it to you. But if you have a small scale,, local, family-owned kind of thing in your neighborhood, I'd literally rather have you buy from them than us. And we're just part of this movement.

So Get Real Chicken is a really good resource for very small, local pasture poultry companies. So check them out for sure. And if most people live in a food desert or it's just not realistic to drive out to a farm or the price points don't work, that's where we want to fill in. Passionbird.com ships to 50 states and we do a really great job with the packaging and all that stuff. So we're more than happy to provide people with chicken. But we do always want to acknowledge when you can, the small scale logo, it's really cool if you can do that too, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Okay. So I want to ask you a question that I ask all of my guests, which is a personal one. I'm curious to hear what your health

non-negotiables are. These are things that you do daily, maybe weekly to prioritize your own health. You know how the like the mold stuff flared up so much in the real food community? And that's been a massive topic. Yeah, huge. I don't know, man. I grew up in Seattle. And to me, fresh air is underrated. And I'm a big fan of this book called Comfort Crisis. And it's kind of like this idea that we all live way too climate-controlled and indoor lives.

And so we have a huge bifold at our house and um any time i can have fresh air to me that's just non-negotiable like i'll take all my calls outside i'll try to work outside as much as possible like i just want to be i don't care if it's hot or cold like i just want to be outside as much as i possibly can um less of my stuff might be on the diet side than you'd think. But to me, organ meats, especially for my kids, we have four little ones, but from 10 down to two. And so to me, getting organ meats into their diets, really, really important. Bone broth is really, really important for us. Getting the kids raised in a way that they know where their food

comes from. So I was telling you about before we started, we harvested our own turkeys this year. And a 10-year-old was able to do his first ever harvest and he got to come out. Really, he loves animals. I think he's maybe going to work for PETA someday. And so it was a really, really big step for him to do that. He felt really... I don't want to say conflicted.

That's not the right word but like he took it very seriously and it was like a heavy thing for him he felt the weight of like taking life to sustain ours and it was like a level of pride where he got to bring the bird for our family and like you know they got to they got to kind of enjoy the fruits of his labor so i think raising our kids in a way that um're connected to land and to animal. And then traveling. I don't know why that pops up as one of our health hacks. My wife and I are both...

It's great living in a small town like country, blah, blah, blah. But getting out of the country a lot, getting out of this pocket a lot. We've really prioritized that. And I think it's formed a lot of how we think about food. Because believe it or not, America sucks at food. Our food culture is terrible. Pretty much any other country you go to, you're going to learn about food and wellness just by osmosis. So we've just learned a lot just by being in Europe and South America and Africa, just all over the world. And it's been cool to experience that. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. I loved that. Actually, no one has ever said fresh air or travel as their

answer. So I really enjoyed hearing your answers. They were very unique and very important, I think. I was going to say cold plunge. And I'm like, it's been at least two weeks since I've been in. I can't say. No, but the fresh air thing I very much relate to. I literally, I have my front door open all day, nonstop. So even if I'm like not fully outside, I'm like, I have to have that like connection. I didn't really connect that. The reason I brought up the mold is because I just wonder if our hermetically sealed houses are a big,

I'm not saying mold's not a thing, it probably is, but we're so sealed in that you're like breathing the air. You're not supposed to be breathing. I just think if you live somewhere like California, like we should have our doors and windows open all the time. All the time. I totally agree. Do you guys have those in LA?

Have what? The mosquitoes. You know what's really weird? I've never had an issue with mosquitoes before, but we're getting some right now. That's what I'm saying. I feel like they just came out of nowhere. It's the first year.

We'd never have bugs here, you know? I know. It's very weird. And it's like they're everywhere this year. I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't like that. I left Texas to get away from the mosquitoes.

So I'm like, what's happening here? There's some big conspiracy theories on the mosquitoes. Look up GMO mosquitoes and you'll go down a little rabbit hole. I was going to say that. I've seen them. Yeah, it's not ideal. Not stoked about that. Well, thank you so much for your time.

I really enjoyed this conversation and hopefully it was very informative for people. I know it was very informative and educational for people. So where can they find you? Where can they find Pasture Bird? Yeah, so all Pasture Bird's all over like the regular social media stuff, Instagram and TikTok and all that. I mostly write. I do like to write and I'll do all my writing

on LinkedIn. Sounds super weird, but I've just found that it's like a little more professional conversation and I don't have to like appease everybody and I could kind of say what I want there. So if you want to see what I'm thinking about or up to, LinkedIn is a good spot to do that. Amazing. Thank you so much, Paul. I really appreciate your time. Yeah. Thanks, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast.

If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. Thank you. medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider-patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. Do you suffer from IBS or other digestive issues? Are you looking for a new podcast to listen to? From the producer of the Real Foodology podcast comes the all-new health and nutrition podcast, Digest This, hosted by Bethany Ugarte. You may know Bethany as the face of the popular Instagram page, Lil Sipper, or you may have even read her book.

Now you can find her wherever you get your podcasts. On Digest This, Bethany examines topics such as gut health, nutrition, the food industry, and highlights specific ingredients that can be beneficial or harmful to your gut health. She also explores non-toxic options in beauty, home, and cooking essentials. If it has to do with your health, Digest This is talking about it. Each episode features an interview with health experts, doctors, and wellness advocates, and delivers you information that is, well, easy to digest. Bethany also delivers a weekly segment every episode called Bite of Knowledge,

where she highlights an ingredient commonly used in food, skin care, household cleaning, you name it, and gives you the lowdown on the benefits or dangers that ingredient might have in your everyday life. From Botox, potassium, olive oil, and magnesium, all the way to those ingredients you can barely pronounce on the back of your cereal boxes, Bethany has you covered. There's a reason why it debuted at number two on Apple Podcast Nutrition Charts. Check out Digest This on your favorite podcast app. New episodes every Monday and Wednesday, produced by Drake Peterson and Resonant Media.