Realfoodology - What NOT to Eat, Exposing Nutrition Fallacies + Body Positivity | Michelle Shapiro RD

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

EP. 189: Leave Me a Message! Have you ever been caught in the whirlwind of nutrition advice, spinning between "eat this, not that" and "everything in moderation"? Michelle Shapiro, a registered dietitian, joins me to uncover the truth behind the mixed messages in dietetics. We shed light on the dangers of normalizing hyper-processed foods and dissect the implications of the body positivity movement on personal health, all while unpacking the influence of social media on nutrition science. Topics Covered: 0:12:39 - Navigating Nutrition Information and Misinterpretation 0:17:44 - Corporate Influence on Public Health 0:23:19 - Food Labeling in Food Deserts 0:33:07 - Healing Food Relationship Through Liberation 0:41:04 - Healing Relationship With Food Through Intuition 0:51:58 - Purposeful Sharing of Health Information 0:59:30 - Understanding and Applying Krebs Cycle Information 1:03:53 - Debunking Myths About Omega-6 Fats 1:09:08 - Principles of Health and Self-Confidence Check Out Michelle: Online Instagram Podcast Sponsored By: Organifi Use REALFOODOLOGY for 20% off at  www.organifi.com/realfoodology  LMNT Get 8 FREE packs with any order at drinkLMNT.com/realfoodology BiOptimizers MagBreakthrough Get 10% off at bioptimizers.com/realfoodology with code REALFOODOLOGY Needed Go to thisisneeded.com and use code REALFOODOLOGY for 20% off your first month Check Out Courtney: @realfoodology My FREE Grocery Guide Leave Me a Message! Air Dr Air Purifier AquaTru Water Filter Produced By: Drake Peterson Edited By: Mike Frey

On today's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. There is always, always something you can do for your health. That I am certain and I would bet my life on it, that no matter what, there's always something you can do. There's never a too late. There's never to the last minute we are here, there's something we can do. And I believe that fully and wholeheartedly.

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. I am Courtney Swan, your host. In today's episode, I sat down with a registered dietitian, Michelle Shapiro, and I really love her information. She is such a great follow on Instagram. So go check her out at Michelle Shapiro RD. She is a registered dietitian by trade, but she is also speaking out a lot right now about what is happening in her industry and how a lot of dietitians, not all, but there's this strange trend online of dietitians essentially giving

people excuses to eat highly processed foods. It's really, I don't know how else to say it. They are essentially giving people permission that it's okay to eat everything in moderation. And I'm not arguing against that statement per se, but I think that statement has really gone essentially giving people permission that it's okay to eat everything in moderation. And I'm not arguing against that statement per se, but I think that statement has really gone off the deep end. And now there are many people advocating for people to just eat processed foods and like, for example, integrating Kraft macaroni and cheese into a quote unquote, healthy diet. And Michelle and I really got into this conversation. It's great to hear from her perspective because she is a trained dietitian and she's speaking out right now about what is kind of happening in this world. And again, I want to be careful and say

that we are not saying that every single dietitian is doing this, but there is this strange trend online right now happening for sure. And we wanted to name it and really bring some nuance into it. We also talk about the body positivity movement, how it really affected her. We talk about her drastic what's happening right now from a science and nutrition perspective online and specifically in the social media world. I found this conversation incredibly interesting, especially hearing from her side of things. We talked about how hyper-processed foods can actually create eating disorders because there is this conversation online right now that if you tell people to avoid certain foods that we know that are not good for them, there's this pushback of, oh, there's not such thing as a good or a bad food. And if you label things as good or bad food, then you're creating an eating disorder. So we breathe some life into that. We breathe some

nuance into that conversation and talk more about how we need to be able to label certain things as bad and harmful for our health because they are harming our health right now. And yes, there are such thing as good and bad things. Now, if you're talking about literally food, if we're talking about real food, there's no such thing as a real food that's bad for you because it's real food. Unless of course, if you have some sort of food allergy, but what we're talking about is people are going online and advocating for hyper-processed foods and saying that those aren't bad.

And I would argue, and we talk about this in the episode, that hyper-processed, highly palatable food-like products are not actually food. So if we're talking about food specifically, yeah, okay, all food is on the table, barring any sort of allergies. But if we're talking about food specifically, yeah, okay. All food is on the table, barring any sort of allergies. But if we're talking about hyper-processed foods, those are bad for us. And we need to be able to say that they're bad for us. So we really get into that conversation. It was so much fun. We were so in flow, which was just, it made for great, great conversation,

which made it really fun for us. And I think it's going to be a really great listen for you guys. So I really hope you enjoy the episode. As always, if you're enjoying the show, if you would take a moment to rate and review, it not only really means a lot to me, it actually really helps this show grow. And if you want to go online and post about it, tag at Real Foodology. I try to see all of your messages and get back to you. And I just want to say thank you so much for the support. And I really appreciate you guys. I hope you enjoy the episode. If you're like me, you know the importance of eating healthy, but you don't always have the time or the willpower to cook with all the colors of the rainbow. And your body is an amazing organic machine. It turns food into

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trying Organifi. To try Organifi today and save 20%, go to Organifi.com slash RealFoodology and use code RealFoodology. Again, that's Organifi.com. It's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use code RealFoodology. Michelle, I'm so excited to have you on today. We've been following each other and like loving each other's stuff for so many years. This is our moment. I'm so excited to be here. So excited. I know I've been watching your content. I was trying to remember earlier how long ago I found your account. I think it was probably maybe like four years ago. I think it was like four. I think it was like a little bit pre-COVID even. It was at least four years ago. We've been calling each other. Yeah, for sure. And just you have this way of putting words to things that not a lot of people are talking about right now.

But you're great at inviting a conversation that's very welcoming to everyone and not super polarizing. And you're able to interject a lot of truth in there, which is so important for people to hear right now. And that's why I'm so excited to talk about all of this today. Well, I really appreciate that. And I also feel like you've been bold and not afraid to say to say what people really need to hear. So I really appreciate your content for that reason, too. Thank you. I appreciate that. OK, so let's start out first and foremost. What how what got you on this journey? Totally. So I grew up in Queens, New York, super diverse, amazing place. When I was younger, I always occupied a larger body. And we'll talk about the phrasing and why I use that phrasing

throughout the conversation. In Queens, it really didn't like matter. Honestly, people could be different sizes, different races, different genders, different sexual orientations. And people really weren't judged for it. Honestly, it was a much more well, I'm sure there were instances. But for me, I was still able to like be class clown in my high school of 5,000 students, which is insane in New York city that we have schools, high schools that are 5,000 students. But for me, I knew when I was going to college, I was going to the university of Delaware. And I realized if I'm going to the university of Delaware, it's going to be a much more homogenous population.

And I might want to like look thinner to fit in. Like that's a real thing. So I went on this very drastic weight loss journey that I would never recommend and lost about a hundred pounds in three months before going away to school. What happened as a result of that was I was chronically ill throughout college and I didn't, you know, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, all these different conditions, but really like no one understood that what was happening was that drastic change in my body was unwelcomed. And, you know, you pour toxins out of your fat cells when you lose weight drastically like that.

I wasn't clearing them. Probably this starvation caused what happened to be a lot of anxiety, panic attacks and things like that. And it really was me clawing my way back to health through naturopathic and functional medicine modalities that I was actually able to achieve real health. So for me, I really don't want my clients to go about weight loss the wrong way. And I believe there's a way that we could be kind of both body positive and pursue those health goals. So this is what I really love about your message, because I have, I felt like the body positivity movement started on a really great foot. I remember the have, I felt like the body positivity movement started on a really great foot. I remember the beginning. I was like, yes, I love this because I've always

been such a supporter of no matter where you are in your journey, it is so incredibly important to love your body because for me, health to me is loving your body and taking care of your body. Heck yeah. So it doesn't matter where you are in your journey. I've always felt like, yes, love your body. But one of the facets of loving your body is doing certain things that are going to be great for your overall health, for your vitality. And as a result, you end up losing weight doing that oftentimes. And I started feeling like with this body positivity movement that we were then attacking people for wanting to lose weight and then almost like celebrating being so overweight and then started telling people like, oh, your weight has nothing to do with your health whatsoever. And then we started lying to people. And so that's where I really have an issue with where body positivity went is I feel like now we're at this place where we're like, oh, it doesn't matter how big you are, how much extra weight you have. It's totally fine.

You can be healthy at any size. And I don't believe that because when you look at the markers and you see all of the chronic diseases that we're dealing with right now, weight is a major factor in those. Sure. And I think weight, we used to kind of believe that weight was just something that was kind of on you and it was something aesthetic. And now we really understand that fat tissue versus muscle tissue has all these different interactions with the body. So I think the understanding that having, even if we just look at body comp, the likelihood if you are under muscled and over fat, I'll use Dr. Gabrielle Lyons phrasing. We love her. Of course. I think there is definitely a higher metabolic risk. And I think we have to talk about that and acknowledge that now that has been talked about quite a bit. So it's been talked about for 30 years, right? It's always been the conversation that that being overweight or obese, and I put it in quotes because I think the BMI as a standalone measure for health is not really super helpful, obviously. I think that body comp piece is more important and immune function and all those other pieces too. And can you explain, can you break down what

body comp means for people listening? Oh yeah. Body composition, just meaning the difference between your skeletal muscle mass, your visceral fat, your total body fat, your total muscle mass, I think, and total body water. And there's tests that you can do where you can actually see where your body percentage fat is, where your muscle is. And absolutely. And there's some really cutting edge tests coming out to really understand like those numbers even better. But yeah, there's in bodies. There's even bioelectrical impedance scans you can do, like, which are really, you have those scales that have the body fat on them. They're not perfectly accurate, but they can give you some level of understanding. I think waist circumference is another way that we can look at disease risk. But

so I think on this moral standpoint, we've heard forever that being bigger, bad, right? That's a conversation we've known, you know, growing up in the nineties, especially that was like the conversation, right? So the body positivity movement was really born out of the fact that people were being discriminated against for being in larger bodies. Now I don't have to say this to you, Courtney, you obviously know this, but people should never be discriminated against. I'm laughing because it's so ridiculous for the size of their body. It's a heinous and horrible thing that happens. Yes, it's awful.

And it's real, right? People are discriminated in doctor's offices. People are discriminated in job interviews. It is a real thing. And we can acknowledge that. And I certainly experienced it in my own personal life. I totally understand it. What happened was that body positivity movement, which started as a morality, a social movement

leaked into the scientific nutrition world. And that's where we kind of went into, um, kind of skewing science and to try to really, what I think is coddle people away from the truth that, um, we do have a lot of chronic illnesses headed our way. We're already under a huge chronic illness. Um, I don't want to use the word epidemic, but we have a lot of chronic illnesses headed our way. We're already under a huge chronic illness. I don't want to use the word epidemic, but we have a massive amount of chronic illness with real people's lives. And as a scientific structure or protocol, body positivity is not nutritionally satisfactory. It is, however, an absolutely accurate moral movement. It is correct that people of all body sizes are equitable and equal and deserve good lives and deserve to be treated with exactly the same

respect and to love one's life and health and body and soul is the most important thing of being healthy we know in the world. Yes. Yes. And this is where you said it so perfectly where it got conflated. And actually, it's so funny because I just had someone write a comment on one of my reels very recently where she said something along the lines of, how dare you assign morality to food? No food is going to make you good or bad person. And it just showed me, I was like, why would you ever? You're like, I would never think that it would. I would never have ever said that. That's where I really struggle. And I know you feel the same way online where I will say one thing and people completely conflate it and put words in my mouth and just assume that I'm saying something else. And obviously that just tells me

where they are in their brain and where they're in their journey where their vulnerability personally is exactly and i feel for them i have so much empathy for them and where they are in their journey but this is where we this is why these conversations are so incredibly important because no one is assigning morality to your weight no one is assigning like your worthiness to this and you're not I just also want to make it clear. You're right. Courtney, you are not. You're right. I think that's what's really important. Not because I'm trying to hype you or anything. But the point is that there are people who are trying to share unbiased nutrition information online. You are one of those people who's on the front lines of that, honestly. And by the front lines, I mean, you're getting attacked for it all the time and you are literally sharing nutrition information. There's not even a remote subtext

in any of your videos where you're placing judgment, where you're placing, it's so counter to your personality, knowing you too, that it's, I always find it so surprising, but that brings us into like kind of this bigger conversation is that the nutrition world also then started to be broken down into these kind of camps, right? So there's like the functional nutrition camp, which we kind of live in, right? There's the body positive camp. There's the kind of classic diet culture-y, your weight is your worth converse. There are people like that still who are still very like a moment on the lips, forever on the hips. And that diet culture is real and prevalent. But

what is happening is that a dietitian or a nutrition professional like yourself can have completely different information than a different nutrition professional. So people are getting really confused. And I think what's happening is I use this reference, which that nutrition information can be like a knife. Let's use the metaphor of a knife. You can use a knife to cut food in the kitchen. It can be really helpful. You can also use a knife to harm someone, right? The nutrition information is the knife. It's not the actual tool that's the problem. It's what people are doing with the tool and how people are interpreting it. But I will be damned before I let someone like you, who's giving really good nutrition information, stop because people are

interpreting that in the wrong way. And I think that we have to have some onus here on how we're interpreting information as consumers of it, as well as of course, we're going to be responsible in what we post. But I think that's the problem is that it's not the information itself. It's the interpretation of it. Oh, absolutely. And thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciate that because that has been my world where I'm over here like, I'm really trying to help. I genuinely am trying to help. And I see this because I see it from the zoomed out lens where everybody is so confused. Our population as a whole is very sick right now.

Everyone's looking for answers. They're confused and they're getting steered down. Many, not all, but many are getting steered down this wrong path that is only going to further put them into that disease state and more confusion and hopelessness. And I want to show them that it doesn't have, there's so much hope and there's so many things that we can do, but it does require personal responsibility and also an understanding of what is happening right now. 100%. They say there's like, I don't know who originated this quote, so I feel bad for not knowing. But there's like two things required for change, education and then a needing, right, to make that change in the first place.

I think that there is certain nutrition information that's for certain people. And I think it is on the responsibility of us when we're looking at it to know if that's for certain people. And I think it is on the responsibility of us when we're looking at it to know if it's for us or not. And I think that the kind of theme of the body positivity crew, I'm going to call it, because it's not, there's many health at every size practitioners. There's many body positive practitioners, intuitive eating professionals who are incredible practitioners. I'm talking about a small group of people who are kind of the vocal minority who are the all foods fit group, who believe that basically all foods

are good as long as you're feeding your soul. And my perspective is, I know, I know. And my perspective is you can't give physiological solutions to psychological problems and you can't give psychological solutions to physiological problems, which means if you have a parasite, you can't intuitive eat your way out of a parasite, right? If your basic, most important nutrition issue is that you have a disordered relationship with food, yes, intuitive eating is the tool you go to first. A majority of us, that's actually not the main reason why we're unhealthy. And who's getting by in all of this. When we are over here fighting over Courtney's, you know, Michelle's content is inflammatory. It's the people are getting sicker and the food companies and these pharmaceutical companies are

completely getting away with it, which I think they must be laughing because we're over here fighting about the exact wording that you're using to call them out. And there's a bigger piece of this too, Courtney, which is that people believe that the way that things are right now is correct. So what I mean by that is you have a vision for the world that we could be literally healthy and that we wouldn't have such an abundance of chronic illness. You really believe that people really don't believe that they kind of believe that these are coincidences, that being sick is a coincidence. And I think we all have to get on the same playing field that there's a shot for you to be healthy. And I think people don't believe us that you can honestly. 2024 is the year of fertility for me. I'm just naming that right now. While I am not actively trying to get pregnant, this is not an announcement for that. I do know that it can take

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So act fast. This is a limited time offer. Go now to bioptimizers.com slash real foodology and get magnesium breakthrough today. And also check out all the other products they have. They have a lot of great stuff. Wow. Wow. I've never thought about it like that before. And you're so right. How do we get people to understand that there is a shot? There's so much hope. You have so much choice. I tell people this all the time. I'm like, you actually can control a lot of this. Not everything. I'm not saying everything, but like you can control. There's

many factors against people. I'll give you an example too. So I used to, as part of my dietetic internship, which we're going to talk about dietitians too. I'm a dietitian, but we're going to talk about dietitians today. We sure are a dietitian, but we're going to talk about dietitians. We sure are. We are. I went to work for City Harvest, which is an amazing not for profit company in New York City. And one of the programs that I was working on was going into food deserts and supermarkets and food deserts and kind of recruiting people from housing projects to come on these supermarket tours with us. And I was walking around and I was saying, you know, every tour I did, I did many tours a day. I would say, you know, so the front of the food label, you know, you're going to be lied to. And these, you know, everyone on the tour with me,

they were like, you think we don't know the government's trying to screw us? Like they're the people who know the most because they're the ones who are actually on the receiving end of not having health privilege. So I felt it was my responsibility to give within the context of that supermarket. I know you go to Costco and you go to all these supermarkets to help people too. But within that framework, there's so much you can do. Instead of buying the cereal, if you just buy oatmeal or you bought grains, you know, like if you bought rice instead of buying like processed, you know, conglomerate kind of foods, there's always something you can do.

And sometimes the information, sometimes you're going to be at Erewhon, Courtney, and that's okay too. And sometimes you're going to be at Costco and that piece of information, if you don't live in LA, don't watch the Erewhon video anyway, because you're not there. Right. So that's the truth. It's not for everyone and you can cater it and still be honest regardless of who you're catering the information to. And that's what I really try to do with my videos as much as possible. It's why I go to the grocery store and I point out specific ingredients because I'm trying to teach people this. Of course. I'm like you. I have a hard time with this because what ends up happening often, not always, is I get a bunch of people,

they'll DM me and they'll send me like specific pictures of everything. And they're like, what about this? What about this? What about this? And I always respond back. I say, Hey, why don't you go watch a couple of my videos? Because what I'm really hoping to do is that you learn how to do this for yourself. And so then you can go to the grocery store and be like, okay, wait, what was she saying about the cereal? What would be a better option? Like you said, Oh, let me just buy the oats and add some berries to it. And maybe like a little bit of honey and sweeten it and do it on my own where it doesn't have all the preservatives in it. I'm really trying to equip people on how to do this themselves where they don't feel like they

have to look at someone else like this, like guru or something. I'm not calling myself a guru, but I'm just saying like they're not looking for outside perspective. They're able to do it themselves. You brought up my favorite kind of conversation line, Courtney, which is that all of health comes down to bodily autonomy. All of it comes down to autonomy. What I do with my clients and what you do with your platform is really help the individual to empower themselves to make those choices. I almost never give recommendations. Even in client sessions, I'm pulling and then the recommendation will come to the client themselves. We mostly know what we need to do. We just don't really know how to get from point A to point B. Right. And I think you need content like yours. We need content like

yours because we need you cast a really wide net and you give information that's really like in the actual stores. What are you doing? My information is very like a concept and trying to make shifts with people from an emotional, spiritual level, but we need both. And we need to have those shifts because you asked me the question before, how do we get to the point where people understand? You're not just saying this for fun. You're not just saying this so that you can get freaking wrecked online. Yeah, exactly. You're saying this because you authentically want people to hear the information and it's true information and it's the best information you have available and you want to share it with people.

I feel it's our responsibility to not withhold information. And I've gotten this so many times. Like, Michelle, if there's someone who is in a food desert. Do you want me to withhold information from the most vulnerable population of people? I'm not going to do that. It doesn't matter. You know, if I look like I'm the bad guy because I'm giving information that seems like it's not catered to everyone when I don't. Every piece of information is catered to everyone and you give different types of information. But I think this idea of privilege in health care is very backwards because if I have the privilege of education and knowledge, I think I have a right and less of a right responsibility to share that information. I didn't come into this to watch

people suffer with chronic illness and me sit on this information to be afraid that someone's going to say it's not for me. I want it to be for who it's for. And I'm never going to back down on that. I know you're not going to back down on that either. Oh, never. I mean, that's so, as you were talking about this, it's so crazy. I was thinking about, um, a DM that I got really recently. So I did an ad with this food baby or, um, baby food company that I really like called Cerebelli and someone DM'd me and they said, Hey, I saw your ad. It makes me really upset that each pouch is X amount of money because it's not super accessible for everyone. And I wrote her back and I said, I hear you, but I believe that it's up to every single individual person to figure out how to budget and figure out what

works best in their budget based on how they want to feed their family, how much money they have. And it's on them. And I said, just because there's some people that can't afford this, should we not make this at all? Because it's really healthy and it's really good. And if you can afford it, why are we saying that we should not make this at all? Because not everyone can have it. And I feel that way about this accessibility piece, period. And I don't say that to be insensitive.

I say that like, okay, so, and I also told her this, I said, look, another great option. If you can't afford those pouches, take a photo of the ingredients and then go home and make it yourself. Exactly. Make it yourself. Exactly. Which is totally doable. Exactly. So why are we making such a stink about like, oh, well, some people can't even, and by the way, I think this woman that wrote me this could actually afford it. So I'm also like, why are we making up a big stink for people that you've never met and may not even exist?

Do you know what I mean? Like when we talk about this accessibility piece, it's like I posted this video recently that got me a lot of heat. And it was this woman and she goes, plate my one year old's breakfast with me. And she gets three hostess powdered donuts and she just puts them on a plate and then she puts a applesauce packet and then hands it to her daughter and there were so many comments about accessibility and like well what if this is all she has you know access to blah blah blah and i said you know what's cheaper exactly also do you know what is cheaper actually Actually, if you go to Walmart and you

buy a bag of those Hostess donuts, they're actually pretty expensive. What are they? 10 bucks or something like that? Yes. For the exact same price. Actually, for cheaper, you can get 12 dozen non-organic, non-pasteurized eggs. I'm talking about just basic eggs. You could actually get that for cheaper and it would last longer because she'd have more meals. Her breakfast days. Yes. So there's, I don't know how this happened, but somehow food companies that are like villainous, truly evil, like make people sick and know it kind of food companies. They have gotten off scot free, but Courtney's getting attacked. It's just it's truly unbelievable to me. And I know, you know, there's so many people.

I grew up in New York city. I grew up, I know, I, I understand the climate of how important it is to really understand, you know, different people's backgrounds and how that plays into where they come to the table. But I can promise you that there's, it's more condescending to withhold information than it is to share it and see who it's right for. And I feel like it's so degrading to me that people feel like I'm not going to give information to people because they can't use it. Why don't you let them decide for themselves? Because they're autonomous adults as well. And they're much smarter than you think they are and give them more credit to be able to interpret the information. So there's a way to approach things with sensitivity, which both of us are eager to do.

But I'm just not going to play. I have to call it that game. I'm not playing the game of these food companies that have literally manipulated people into thinking that Hostess donuts are more accessible than oatmeal or eggs. Cheaper. They're not cheaper. They're not cheaper. There's nothing more accessible.

I will say it might be more accessible supermarket-wise because they've worked their way into the most vulnerable populations, food deserts, which is just – food deserts can be from not only physically the distance to get food, but if you have access to fruits, vegetables, meats, and enough nutrient density too. So they have made it so that because they are in those places, people think that that is appropriate for those places. There's this game, Courtney,

and I don't understand, like people are in a different game that I'm playing. Like the game that you and I are playing is like, we want people to become healthy. That is the goal. I really want people to be happy and healthy with all everything I have inside of me. I'm going to put it all out with that goal in mind. Other people, I truly believe there's a limit to what they believe people can be. And they believe that the more they have stacked against them, there's more limitations. And there is in a lot of cases. But we still believe there's hope in every situation. And there is literally no reason in our view of the game that that mother has to choose the Hostess Donuts. There's nothing cheaper about them or more accessible about them.

It is actually a game developed by food companies. And they won. I have to be honest. They won because instead of us getting healthy and refusing to buy their products and protecting the most vulnerable people, people are fighting with you in the DMs instead. Oh, it's crazy. And they're making me out to be a villain. And I'm over here like, I mean, that video almost put me in tears. It made me so sad because like you said,

we have been brainwashed by these food companies. And now everyone is fighting each other instead of fighting the actual enemy. Like we're making enemies out of the people that are trying to help. Do you know how happy these CEOs of this company are? Oh, They were laughing to the bank. And you know what's so funny? Like when the kind of all foods fit crew, because I really do separate all foods fit from body positivity. But when they started posting like videos of them eating ice cream and chips ahoy and being like, this is my lunch today because this is, you know, and I actually saw recently a colleague of mine who's a dietician posting a Starbucks Frappuccino that was 72 grams of sugar.

And she said this exact drink healed my relationship with food. And she said, I recommend this to my clients because it healed my relationship with food. But that's her personal story. Right, exactly. How is also 72 grams of sugar healing your relationship with food? No, it's because you decided to liberate your food restrictions that you healed your relationship with food. No, it's because you decided to liberate your food restrictions that you healed your relationship with food. It's because you decided to seek whatever work that you're doing to heal your relationship with food. You're letting Starbucks think that they healed your relationship with food. Come on, guys. It's not the chips ahoy and the ice cream that's healing

your relationship with food. It's the work that you're putting in. And I think there's this other game that's really confusing and frustrating. And this is the most hardcore I've ever gone in this way, but I told you we were going to. I'm here for it because of the cholesterol. I can't. As long as it's a food food, probably for most people, yeah, most of those foods are going to be fantastic for you. And you don't have to be so nitty gritty. It's that we're in a world where most of the food that we see is potentially dangerous to us. So you're really trying to steer people away from those dangers.

And I think, again, it's such a societal influence on how we're thinking about things as opposed to the reality, which is that these foods are not even – we shouldn't be eating them at all. And you don't have to eat them to have a good relationship with food, obviously. It's also not food. It's just not food, yeah. This has been my argument. I say this all the time. I tell people all the time. I'm like, no food is off the table, barring, obviously, allergies.

No food is off the table if it's real. If it was once alive and it's something that your great grandparents would recognize as food, that is real food. Exactly. But you know what is not real food? Hostess powdered donuts, Kraft macaroni and cheese. Like that is not, to me, that is not food. And so when I see dieticians online and they're telling people like, oh, it's totally fine. Like I'm about to make a super healthy dinner for me and my family.

I'm just going to add a couple broccoli florets and like some chicken breasts to this Kraft macaroni and cheese pack. Or I'm going to do a hamburger helper. I'm like, that is not food. That is not food. And so this is where it comes back to that placement of like good and bad. And, you know, I see this all the time in my comments, my DMs. People are like, you can't assign good and bad. And, you know, I see this all the time in my comments, my DMs. People are like, you can't assign good and bad to food.

And I'm like, I am assigning it to food like products. And there are food like products. Food like commodities. That's what I call them. Exactly. Same thing. I'm like, those aren't food and those are bad for you.

And if someone's telling you that those are good and healthy for you, run because they're not. It's not food. It's not meant to be consumed. And listen, no one could understand more. Again, I completely understand people feeling, again, like they need to make shortcuts for food. I order my food out often. I just have to find my spots. It's completely fine. I don't have a lot of time. We don't have a lot of time. I completely understand that. Especially parents. Are you kidding me? I completely

understand. It doesn't change the fact that that food is going to change the course of their lives and their children's lives. So my question is always to people who do the all foods fit thing, and they say this, first of all, they don't believe that food influences health. They're no longer nutritionists. In my opinion, you're playing a psychological game, playing therapist. It's not, it's not only about your relationship with food. You're playing a psychological game, playing therapist. It's not only about your relationship with food. The reason that you're a nutritionist is because you're all supposed to talk about food quality and how it influences the science of our bodies. But my question is always, if you are saying all foods fit, if you're saying it's fine to drink the

frappuccino and you need it for your relationship with food, and you have a person who's vulnerable medically, are you going to... This is my real question to people. Are you going to be there with them when their family members or they get sick? Who's, who's actually going to be with these people? By the way, it's us. It's me. I'm going to be the person when people are really sick and people have gone from doctor to doctor and dietitian to dietitian, they often come to me as like the last stop on the train and they've wasted time and money and effort and energy. And the amount of clients that come to me after going to body positive dietitians, health at every size dietitians sicker than they were before, they're like, yeah, I don't feel like I have as many thoughts around food. But that was a year and I gained 40 pounds and now I have free diabetes.

And I'm like, you know, I don't take I think people's health is really serious and I don't take that lightly. take lightly that you're working with a trusted practitioner and you're gaining 40 pounds when you're trying to lose weight. And all you got out of it after investing thousands of dollars was a little bit better of a relationship with food. It's not funny to me. It's not fun. It's not anything. It's really serious to me. And I take what people need seriously. And that could be, there's some of my clients I don't talk about food with because they're not ready to receive that information because that nutrition information would be a knife to them. So we do just stay on the emotional side for a bit. And that's a lot of my clients who have very disordered relationships with food, but we're going to get there because their other health goals are imminent and important

to me too. Cause whatever they want is what's important to me because they have body autonomy in my office. And on your page, they have body autonomy. You say, let me lay it out and they can take it, whatever they need to take from it. Yes. Well, and what you were just talking about is at the end of the day, it's not sustainable. If we're telling people, if someone's coming to you as a dietitian and they're like, I'd love to lose weight. I'm also kind of struggling with this eating disorder component of it. And you're like, it's totally fine. Just have a free for all. You're actually only creating a different type of eating disorder, which is an addiction to these food like products that are literally designed to be overeaten. So all you're doing is prolonging the problem.

Correct. You're not actually creating a real solution. Okay. So maybe for a second, they feel better about food and their thoughts have calmed down a little bit, but you, but then now you've created diabetes for them, or now you've created an autoimmune disorder or whatever it is. Cravings. Yeah. So exactly. I think about this, I think about binge eating disorder specifically as being kind of three different models of treatment. And the three models of treatment I see are you can liberalize all food restrictions because food restrictions, um, have been proven, certain food restrictions have been proven to lead to more binge eating because you feel like you're kind of stuck in the corner and we rebel. Like that's a real thing.

So liberalizing food restrictions. And then my favorite one would be like nervous system regulation, which is just actually acknowledging before a binging episode, what do I feel inside of my body and what's leading me towards that? And that's a big tool. And the other tool would be abstaining from the foods that create that addictive mentality. So the problem is that two of the models of binge eating, um, inter, uh, you know, completely conflict with each other. They go completely opposite of each other. So someone who's trying to help their binge eating from a psychological aspect, liberalizing food restrictions might be important because they have to feel safe around food that helps the nervous system. But like you're saying,

there's another whole model of treatment of binge eating that certain foods have addictive properties to them. And they might lend you towards more binge eating. They're just more bingeable, I would say, as a food too. So any model is valid, in my opinion, for treating binge eating. But you're probably going to need a combination of all three. And if you just choose one, you might then kind of land in the territory of not helping yourself with the other tool. So a beautiful combination of all three well-timed in order of priority is, I think, the best

way to do it. But you can't just only liberalize food restrictions and expect that your emotional nervous system regulation is going to change. And you can't expect that these foods aren't going to be addicting because they are. Yeah, that's the that is. Oh, I just this is why I have such a hard time with this, because I feel like we should be setting people up for success. And this is where the bio individualized care comes in. Right. So I get so many people that write me and they're like, well, you know, this is just the bio-individualized care comes in, right? So I get so many people that write me and they're like, well, you know, this is just creating eating disorders. And my first thought is it's not for everyone.

It actually really helps heal. How many DMs do you get a day from people who say your information is extremely helpful? A lot, actually a lot. I'm sure a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And so when I get these comments where they're like,

oh, good job, you're just creating eating disorders. I'm like, actually, it did the complete opposite for me because when I was younger, I I had a bit of like a tricky relationship with food before I really got into healthy eating because I was eating really unhealthy food like products that I would get like super addicted to and feel like I couldn't stop eating them. And then when I realized, like I opened up my world to, oh, wow, there actually isn't any bad food if it's in the context and exactly if it's in the container of real food. And that completely healed my relationship with food. Now, I don't even think about it. I don't even think about it. I don't have these like crazy thoughts about food all day. I'm not like, oh, my God, what am I going to eat for dinner? It's like that's where when you stop allowing these food like products and all these chemicals to override your own intuition.

This is what I talk about a lot. Once you can get all of those chemicals and, you know, all this, the additives and stuff out of your body, because those are really what's driving your cravings. A lot of times, not always. I don't want to say always, but a lot of times what is driving your cravings. If you can get all of that out of your body and actually get really in tune and in touch with your body, we're very, very smart. All of us. We are.

I mean, it's primal. You know, it's how we're all here. And if we can get back in touch with what our body truly needs and you can really learn how to listen to your intuition and your body, you will know exactly what to eat and you will not be confused. Did you guys know that over 70% of sodium in the US diet is consumed from packaged and processed foods? When you adopt a whole foods diet, you're eliminating or hopefully eliminating these processed foods and therefore sodium from your diet. Now, the solution is not to reintroduce processed foods in your diet, but by not replacing that sodium, you can actually negatively impact your health and performance. If you guys listen to my episode, The Salt Fix with Dr. James Stenick, we learned that sodium is actually a really imperative mineral for the body. Sodium helps

maintain fluid balance. It's an electrolyte, so it helps keep us hydrated. It also aids in nerve impulses. It regulates blood flow and blood pressure. It's incredibly important. And if you're eating a whole real food diet, chances are you're probably not getting enough sodium. Also, this is probably going to be a shock to hear, but if you are just drinking water without adding minerals back into your water, you're not actually hydrating. My personal favorite way to stay hydrated throughout the day is through drinking element every day. That's L MM-N-T. It's a delicious tasting electrolyte drink mix that has everything you need and nothing you don't. So that means lots of salt.

There's no sugar in there. It's formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and is perfectly suited for people following keto, low carb and paleo diets. It has a science-backed electrolyte ratio, a thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium and 60 milligrams of magnesium. I drink one of these every single morning. They have a ton of amazing,

super delicious flavors. I know a lot of us listening are avoiding natural flavors. So they also have an unflavored one, which is my personal favorite. I love to put it with lemon, but if you want the flavored ones, they have a great variety of different flavors and they have given me an awesome offer to share with you guys. So you guys can claim a free element sample pack when you make a purchase through the link. The link is drinkelement.com slash realfoodology. And in the element sample pack, you're going to get one packet of every flavor so that you can try all of them and see which one is your favorite. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I do. Again, it's drinkelement.com slash realfoodology. That's drinkelement.com slash realfoodology. This is the one flaw in my opinion. I actually like the model of intuitive eating a lot,

the 10 principles of intuitive eating. I actually think it's quite beautiful and quite effective for a lot of people. It's much less about accessing your intuition and much more about just eating in a way that's harmonious and honoring what your body's asking of you. So I do believe there is a lot of merit to it. But the nutrition piece of it is like number nine or ten on the list of its intuitive eating principles. So I think that, like you said, if someone's in a state that is like a metabolic syndrome type state, your cues for what you want and crave are going to be really altered. So for you, you couldn't access your intuition because your baseline survival mechanisms are much stronger than your intuition. So if you are at a place where, if we think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you have to have your physiological needs met before you start

getting into that like intuition, self-actualization needs, but you have to meet those baseline needs first. And of course, if someone has a disordered relationship with food and eating disorders, I take extremely seriously and I treat them in my practice. I mean, life-threatening, very serious conditions. We're not joking. Very serious stuff. But even in those situations, again, because the body is so desperate for food or desperate for avoiding food and fear, you're not going to be able to absorb nutrition information properly because that nutrition information is definitely going to be like a knife. It's going to be dangerous to you. So you have to also know when you're consuming content, how do I feel around this information? And that's a question to ask yourself,

not ask Courtney in the comments, you know? And not like, no one's playing victim here. You and I are both fine. It doesn't matter. Like you literally don't care. No, we're good. Yeah, it's not like, oh my God, poor Courtney. She's fine.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm on a mission and you know what? It's fine. I'm doing what I'm doing. Exactly. But I think in the context also, and you brought this up before and it's so beautiful you said it,

but of this good versus evil, to me, what is good is compassionate, not coddling. I believe in compassion. I sit with people, some of my clients, most of my clients at this point, I've been with them for five years, weekly or biweekly. I am in these people's lives to the finish line until they are good. I am with them. So if something's going to get in the way of that, if it's a food company, if it's a societal perception, I'm going to be pretty aggressive with it because I care much more about my clients and much more about the people seeing our content than I do about what people who aren't even interested in receiving the information, but just interested in picking a fight, see in that content, to be honest with you,

it just doesn't matter to me. And it doesn't matter to you. And so I want that to be really important in this conversation. Cause it's not like a, oh my God, people are mean online. It's not that it's that it's a representation of the fact that people are playing the wrong game. The game should be what, what, what did Courtney just say that could help me or my family member critically in their health. That's what I go into nutrition content for, not how is Courtney saying this in a way that could possibly offend me. You're missing the game. You're missing the point of what we're doing. The point is to literally help. And if you're feeling that way, I invite people to just ask, like, why does it make me feel that

way? There's times in my life where my relationship with food's a little more disordered. I don't go on Instagram during that time. Cause I'm like, you know what? Maybe like eight years ago or something, I would have been like, yeah, I'm going to see that low carb thing. And I'm going to go keto for six months and I'm, and I have an eating disorder. So I can't, you know, it's just, it's not for me. It's just not for me at the time. You know, you have to know when it's the right time, the right information for the right person at the right time. This is really important and super, super important for people to hear because that is where you have to get really in touch with what is best for you and what you need. And this is, you know, I say this all the

time. I just believe in informed consent. That's it. But at the end of the day, you are the only person on this entire planet that knows what's best for you and i'm not even sitting here saying that i know what's better for you i'm not all i'm saying is what i see zoomed out right now is a massive injustice and it's very evil what's happening right now because we're taking advantage of very vulnerable people in very vulnerable places and i need to shed light in those dark places in order for people to get the truth because you know what is more evil than telling people what they want to hear and like coddling them or what is, what is actually evil is not telling people the truth because they need

to know the truth so that then they can take that information and do what they will with it. If you're like, okay, I hear what Courtney's saying. I hear aspartame maybe it's not great for me and it's a possible human carcinogen, but you know what? I really like Diet Coke and I'm going to keep doing it. I support you. Rock on. Exactly. I support you. I just want you to know because there are so many people right now, like I said in the very beginning, that are so confused with what is going on right now and they are desperate for answers and we are not helping them by coddling them. We need to tell the truth. And for the information, maybe there's stuff like you were just saying, if there's stuff you see online that is not resonating with

you or you don't like it or whatever it is, it does not mean that it does not need to be said and be heard because many people do need to hear it. A hundred percent. And there, there is what you're working against, unfortunately, and specifically because your target of information is really education. Again, mine is like, I want to inspire that little, Oh, maybe things are a little different than I think that I want to change the game for people in their head so that they can receive information like yours. That's really like, we have different steps in the same system, right? And the same goal. But I think that the problem is that they're, the narrative of things is so much more profound than the reality of things. And I think that unfortunately, like, again, there could be a different time when Courtney's content

wouldn't have been controversial and would have been like, yeah, duh, you know, kind of information. And a couple of years ago, it actually was exactly. Because I've been doing this since like 2000, since 2011, but like in on a bigger scale since like 2015, maybe. And for years, for the most part, everyone was like, yeah, like kind of like, duh. Yeah, of course. Oh, you're saying that these processed foods are related to chronic illness? Like, oh yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. I think that what I invite professionals to do, and I'm really calling professionals out more than content consumers, by the way, in all of this, is ask yourself, who am I helping with this comment?

Who am I helping with this stitch? When I see people stitching your videos, it drives me insane. I'm like, you know, I'm sitting here with a client who's literally on their knees crying because a family member of theirs is ill with a preventable illness or they're sick with a preventable illness and they are ill. I'm like,

why are you spending your time? Who's it helping to hurt Courtney? Like, are you helping people? Are you actually out here? Are you outside out here? We were joking that Courtney's way more outside than I am. I'm like not outside. But are you, who are you helping? That's always my question with these. And I got into like a huge dietician battle with someone over her stitching. You had a video about omega-6 fats. And I, I just, again, that's my question is like, you're feeding your ego. We know that you're not actually helping people. So I don't think anyone could question if you're giving as truthful and honest and helpful information as possible, who cares about the intonation of your voice? Who cares about any, I like not yours particularly, but other people are critiquing that. It's like, no, you're giving information to the best of your

knowledge that you think can help people. And you're doing it for free online. I mean, you're literally doing it for free. You know what I mean? Like it's, and so to me, that's the question I want healthcare professionals to ask themselves. Who am I helping with this information? Even if you're posting a post that says all foods fit, who exactly are you helping with that information? I know exactly the person I'm talking to because, you know, I work with people who have been to honestly a lot of functional medicine doctors and did develop disordered relationships with food, even from being in functional medicine doctor's offices. I know that person's already been on a low histamine protocol.

I know that person's already done all low FODMAP, everything. AIP, they've taken the antibacterial. They've done everything for SIBO and all the, you know, everything. SIBO's in quotes is a whole other conversation, but they've done that. So I know my person is the person who feels very unseen online. You are casting this wide net so that really anyone can use your information, in my opinion. Even just knowing that, again, looking at those ingredients, it's very baseline factual information. And people are like providing research studies to say that what you're saying

like isn't true. And it's like, to me, it's like, who are you helping? You also know it's kind of true because these people don't eat like that at home and they themselves don't eat that food. So they're the first and they're saying they're protecting people. And my question is, how are you protecting people? Well, I will tell you exactly who they're helping. It's the food companies. A hundred percent. And are they being paid?

Oh, God, we have to talk about that sugar thing. We need to talk about that. That was my favorite thing. OK, so what I'm about to say will go into the sugar thing, which everybody needs to hear. Hopefully you've already heard about this. But so I've told this story many times, so I'm not going to tell it in detail, but I was actually on the dietetic track. I was doing my first year. So basically what happened was I got my undergrad, Bachelor of Arts.

And so when I wanted to go back to become an RD, I had to do all the prerequisites, right? So like the Chem 1, the Chem 2, the Biochem, A&P, all of Arts. And so when I wanted to go back to become an RD, I had to do all the prerequisites, right? So like the Chem 1, the Chem 2, the Biochem, A&P, all of that. That's like a couple of years, right? In and of itself? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was two years. So how many years were you in school to get your MS overall? Six years. Yeah. It's like a really long time. Yeah. Like I did two years of prerequisites before I was even in the program. Now I wanted

to become an RD because I figured that is like, you know, that's the accredited, like most respected in the nutrition world, at least at the time. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. And we're going to go into that. Exactly. So I'm on this track. So my second year of doing my prerequisites, basically how it worked is that then you would, you would start on the dietetic track and you would start taking the classes, you know?

And that's what I started doing. So I was headed on that track. I will never forget. I just, there was an intuition I had about it, having conversations with people. I remember every single person in my class was bringing like processed foods with them, Nutri-Grain bars. And by the way, this is not me judging.

This is not me. No, it's just different than what you were doing. It was just, exactly. It just showed me that it was such a different mindset than where I was coming from. I would come in to every single class. These are nutrition classes, by the way, with homemade meals.

Everyone would look at me like I had three heads. Like I'm bringing like the glass Pyrex with like the homemade meals, all that. And then also the curriculum. Our professors were teaching us to put our clients on low fat diets. I already knew at this point that the science had been debunked on that. In the time frame you were in, it was like also the very anti-cholesterol, very low fat situation. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. And I just knew it was wrong. And

then I had another, I had a friend who was an RD and had gone through the program. He was shedding light to me about how much the industry was funding it as well. He was telling me all these examples. I remember the, is it Eat Right, the dietetic association? Yeah. The Academy of Nutritional Dietetics, Eat Right, Doggo Work. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. So every year they put on these events and they're all sponsored by Coca-Cola. The offense you're talking about, FNCE? Yes. That's like, yeah. Coca-Cola, General Mills,

all of the large food companies that are creating all this chronic disease in our country right now, we're the main supporters. And the Dairy Council, that's a big one for them too. That was the one that my friend was telling me about. Yeah. And he was a vegan at the time. It's on their website, by the way, too. Oh, yeah. This is all public common knowledge, by the time. It's on their website, by the way, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

This is all public common knowledge, by the way. There's nothing about this that's conspiratorial. I can't influence the curriculum, but I don't feel like that's true. But, you know. So that's what I was just going to say is that I hit a point where I was like, this is not aligned. I want an accredited place where I'm actually like studying the science of the body, but also from a holistic preventative root cause lens. That's what I really wanted. So while I'm on this program,

my dad was so mad at me. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm not doing this. And I took a year to aggressively look into and study exactly what would be the best path for me. And I found the path that I did, which was a master's of science and nutrition and integrative health.

And integrative health though. Yeah, exactly. Amazing degree. Which was exactly what I wanted because I got all the science, everything, all the foundations that I needed, plus from the integrative root cause protocol. That's amazing.

Exactly, root cause lens. And what I was going to say is I'm seeing this whole narrative. All these dietitians that are still in that world that have not crossed over to what we're talking about, they're all defending the food companies. And my thought is, yeah, no shit, because these food companies are literally funding their education. Well, we have to pay for our education, but then they get to benefit off of our education somehow, which is a whole other thing. Exactly. So this is the crux of the problem. So I believe that every single dietitian and every single medical doctor goes into the profession to help people. That is my, in the core of my being,

I am certain of that. It doesn't matter how many years of school you have, if you're learning the wrong playbook, it just doesn't matter how many years of school you have. So I'm, I actually, along with my colleague, Jillian Greaves, who's a functional dietitian, we're actually making a conference for allopathic dietitians to think of things from a functional lens. Because I actually did a poll recently, Courtney, on my Instagram stories, and I said, when you graduated from being an RD, so now you need a master's to be an RD. I got grandfathered and I actually don't even, you have more schooling than I do, which is the funniest thing. Cause I'm like the RD and you're, yeah, I don't have a master's. It's just, you do, you did the four years and then you did the internship and now, and the internship is kind of a year of school, but I

have a year or less of school than you. Um, I put on my polls, I said to dietitians, how many of you, when you left your dietetic internship and took your test felt prepared to see clients within two hours, I had 200 dietitians and zero of them said they felt prepared to see clients. Within two hours, I had 200 dietitians and zero of them said they were prepared to see clients. Zero. Can you imagine how hopeless they feel? These people who came in to help people. I think about that with a lot of medical doctors too, you know, who, what tool they have for cholesterol, take a satin. That's like, that's what, you know, and, and a lot of them do have diversified tools and doctors are the most amazing people in the world. Of course, not vilifying them. But many of them feel very hopeful, hopeless, I would think, right? Because again, you're learning

from a playbook that is not built for reversing chronic illness. It's really built for acute illness. That's really what it's for. And it's amazing for that, by the way, thank God we have surgeons and like medications and all those things like, yeah, unbelievable. But it's not a playbook for reversing chronic illness. It's not the dietetics curriculum. Yes, we do understand baseline physiology and chemistry, but how does the Krebs cycle, you know, and learning at every class, the obsession with the TCA Krebs cycle, unbelievable. Oh my God. We studied it for like two years straight. I still know the mnemonic, our city is kept safe and sound from all the substrates. Yeah.

But again, how do we turn that into transferable, usable information? That's where I found dietitians are really stuck. So I do feel bad for dietitians. This other thing that I'm so excited I'm talking to you about, because only you would get this, is that my concern is that with all this information, let's say you posted about omega-6 fats being pro-inflammatory when consumed without a balance of omega-3 fats, which I think was the post you

made. It's something very reasonable like that. So then the dietician who, God, I hope she sees this one day, the dietician who stitched you, she was saying, here's some studies that show omega-6 fats aren't inflammatory. A lot of what my biggest problem with dieticians that I see on social media is that they look at studies without knowing mechanism. So what they'll look at is a study that shows glutathione doesn't help with liver detox. And I'm like, but do you know the nutrients required for your liver to go into phase two detox? Because we don't learn about phase one and phase two liver detox. You don't know about real organ function. You know about what happens to organs in a state of real distress. But in that middle state, we don't learn and we don't have those tools to understand how to reverse it.

So people are obsessed with studies without understanding mechanism. And that needs to change. And that's why nutrition information that I see, I feel like, is catered to no one. Because I'm like, one study doesn't do anything for me. I need to understand the mechanism of the body and how that influences. That's the heart of functional nutrition. The heart of functional nutrition is understanding if this food goes into this body, what happens environmentally in the body? Not, does this food outside of the body, what happens environmentally in the body? Not,

does this food outside of the body have merit? Does it matter? Also, do you know how many times we get it wrong in science? The whole point of the scientific method is to disprove ourselves. That's the whole point. That is what the scientific method is, right? You disprove your hypothesis. That's the goal of it, of course. And science is always shifting and changing. But the baseline stuff that we know to be true, I have amazing news for people. It's still the same. Exactly. What we know, real food is better than processed food

every single time. The more processed it is, the more risk you have. Not that all processed foods have the same level of risk, but there's baseline stuff that we just, if it's from, if it can be hunted or gathered in most situations, it's going to be easier for your body to integrate that. And let me tell you something.

If there's not a study right now to back up something that we know intuitively to be true, just remember logic is fast. Science is slow. It takes on average 17 years for the science to catch up to what we already know intuitively and anecdotally to be true. And actually, in your case, you were saying stuff five years ago that was allowed and now it's reversed. So now that information is not allowed anymore. It's unallowed.

Now we have to walk it back. Also my message since 2011 has literally been the same. Same as mine. I created the name Real Foodology in 2011 because what did I, you know what I was thinking? What is the basis of health real food that's it it's never changed that's it it's not going anywhere that if you can nail that nothing that you post is going to be argued or refuted it's just not it's it is

so the complicated part where we make it so complicated is another food company trick it's not really like you got to consider all these things like you don't have to consider anything. Real food is going to be more beneficial than highly processed foods every single time without exception. And we're allowed to just say that we can just say that drinking Coke, Coca-Cola or Pepsi is literally bad for you. Yes, it's literally not compatible with the human body. And it just has to be be okay. Because again, I'm not going to, and I've been more kind of badass this year because I've in the past, I'm like the, I'm the true middle ground between body positivity, which I believe wholeheartedly as a moral principle and functional nutrition, which I wholeheartedly believe as scientific principle and spiritual. Cause I

believe functional nutrition really seeks to invite the soul into the conversation as well. But I've been more kind of aggressive this year in saying that I'm just not going to withhold information anymore. I'm sorry. I'm just not going to. I would never go on my page and say tomatoes are bad for people with histamine intolerance because I'm aware that tomatoes have inherent properties that work well with most human bodies. But that's not what you're saying either. You're not saying you have to go on a low FODMAP, low histamine protocol or anything like that. You're just saying, yeah, consumption of canola oil is linked to these health risks. Here's the

mechanism of why that happens, right? As opposed to people who are saying, here's one study that shows omega-6s aren't that bad. I thought about this too. Part of the dietetic internship is you're working in hospitals. And if you, if you're doing two, you do two feeding calculations for exactly how many types of fat, it's very well known that in critically ill people, omega-6 fats, a too high of a ratio can be like deadly. Like it's, it's extremely dangerous because of the inflammatory process. So again, you dietitians, you know, this stop fighting, you know, tooth and nail online, you know, this because you know it from other parts of your degree. But the narrative being that omega-6 fats are bad is intolerable

for people for some reason. This is so amazing, by the way. I'm obsessed. I know. We could do this for six hours. Literally, I'm in a time warp right now. We're doing the same thing on Quiet the Diet, by the way. We're definitely doing the same thing on my podcast. We're 100% doing the same thing, but we're going to go harder. No, we go harder on Courtney's because Courtney needs the freaking defense, honestly. I love it. Thank you. Okay. So knowing all of this, everything that we've really outlined for people today, I always like to try to bring it back around to knowing this information as the listener and someone who's consuming this information and maybe possibly confused. what can they do and how

can they navigate this from a more zoomed out, maybe intuitive lens? Absolutely. So the bigger picture of what we're talking about on the super high level is that there are healthcare professionals who every single healthcare professional, in my opinion, short of a couple, maybe narcissistic personality disorder, one is out here to help people. So the intention of the information is to be helpful to you. The question is, is it helpful to you? And that's the question that you have to ask yourself. If the information feels weird inside of you, if you do see a video and you say, that kind of makes me want to restrict a lot of foods, sit with that and own that feeling that you have and let it flow through you and acknowledge that. I think that the somatic experience of being on the internet is so

forgotten. Like we have to understand how this is affecting our personal biology and our soul. So sit with how that information, you know, feels inside of you and then ask, and is this information helpful? Is this information helpful to anyone or to myself? I know it makes me feel weird. Like maybe it makes me feel like I need to make a change, but I don't think I can make that change right now. Okay. I'll just know this somewhere in my head, but I'll come back to it. Feel how it feels to consume the content and then really ask, is this information helpful for me, helpful for anyone, or is it just for someone else's ego? Sit with it.

And you'll really know. You'll know that. I think if I'm looking for content from people, look for people who are deeply compassionate, willing to look at both sides of things, and also are giving information that feels really honest. I think that is really important. But feel it within yourself. There's a bevy of nutrition information.

And I think you might like Courtney might be at a higher level of information that people aren't ready for because they're in that mindset that I'm never going to heal still. Then you might need to go to a meditation page and go and see, you know, the capacity of healing or go to Wim Hof or something. I don't know, you know, something that feels inspiring to you first, meet yourself where you're at information wise, meet yourself at the point where you feel like the information is a match for you and it's helpful to you. I think that's really amazing advice. And I think what we are really trying to encourage people to do is just tap back into themselves and really get clear and tap into their intuition and figure out what they need and what's best for

them, you know, because that's really, that's how you take your power back. That's how you get your health back. That's how you quiet all the noise is you get this such this like you get in touch with this really powerful inner knowing. And once you have that, it's unshakable. And then you're able to fight for yourself. I don't mean physically or like angrily, but like, like a warrior, you're able to like fight for yourself and fight for your health. And it will become a lot easier to, to decipher what is good, what's bad information and what is really resonating with you and what's not. And, you know, you said something earlier that I think was really, um, important to this part of the conversation where you said a lot of people are stuck in this mindset of where they they're they're hopeless they don't even think that it's

possible and so I would encourage if anyone is in that place to start diving into maybe start asking you why you're in that place and why you feel that way and you know is it a message and this was always my biggest problem with the All Foods Fit crew is that it's still another group of people telling another group of people what's right for their bodies. So you're trying to give back liberation to people. And in doing that, you're telling them the rules of engagement. Again, I keep using this word, the game, but the game is, it has to be about you and it has to be what works for you. Courtney and I live by the same nutritional principles. Probably we

completely differently. She's a literal model. You know, I've lost a hundred pounds. Like our bodies are just, they're going to be completely different bodies and it doesn't, but the same information when you are, like you said, strong and in resolve and in control of your own body and your own health in whatever way possible. of course, there's confounding factors. Of course, there's things we can't control about our health. There's innumerable things we can't control about our health. But when you have that confidence in self, any information, it'll be so obvious, like you said, what's usable to you and what's not. I know myself so well that I know I can't really start messing around with keto pages

because I really require a lot of carbs and it's really important to my body. I'm like, that's just how my body operates and always has. So I know that might actually set me off a little bit. And then you, again, once you start listening to yourself and you start building your confidence, you'll know right away what's for you and what's not for you. Yeah. I love that so much. So before we go, is there anything else in this conversation, the context of what we talked about that hasn't been said that you think people need to hear? So much. I'm like, let me pick one. I have to, I mean, you're coming back on.

Yeah, exactly. So we'll, part two, stay tuned. We're gonna have to do it at the end of this week. Are you kidding? Yeah, exactly. It's not okay. We'll book the studio again. I just, I think that separate when you're consuming healthcare information, which is what this conversation became about. A lot of my platform is about how do you approach if you want to lose weight or you want to do any change in your health, how do you do that while maintaining a really positive relationship with food? The answer is always self-intuition, which is what

we already touched on. But I think knowing self is what I want people to move forward with. That authenticity, all of that is probably the most important piece of health. And then also this is just the year of – for myself and I hope for you too. I'm not going to back down. And I don't want anyone else to back down from their health either. I don't want – they see something about omega-6s to be the thing that stops them from getting healthier. I want it to push people and propel people forward.

And I am no longer playing by anyone else's rules. I am playing by what I know is helpful for people with my 10 years of experience as a dietitian. You're even more than that experience as a professional. There's another narrative I know we've talked about before this started where dietitians are the only nutrition expert. That's a game that doesn't help people. Again, instead of identifying with the narrative of whatever is going on, and I don't even use that in a political way, but instead of identifying- But some of this has become political.

It's very political too, but I think instead of identifying with that, find out what's your thing. And, you know, in this like internal family systems, I think about this a lot, which is like, if I were to see something online, I know that I'm going to react differently. If I am talking to myself, this coddling aspect, if I say to myself like,

Michelle, you're amazing and you don't have to change at all. I'm a New Yorker. Like I'm a New York Jew. Like we don't talk like that. That's not how we speak to myself, like, Michelle, you're amazing and you don't have to change at all. I'm a New Yorker. Like I'm a New York Jew. Like we don't talk like that. That's not how we speak to people. You know, I would have to say like, Michelle, you're kind of just like not doing what you got to do. And it's like, let's do stuff.

And that would motivate me. Think about how you're receiving information and how you're speaking to yourself when it comes to your health. And just know this is the most important message to take away from everything. I know that we went hard and I was very aggressive in this episode. There is always, always something you can do for your health and just know this is the most important message to take away from everything. I know that we went hard and I was very aggressive in this episode. There is always, always something you can do for your health. That I am certain and I would bet my life on it that no matter what, there's always something you can do. There's never a too late. There's never to the last minute we are here, there's something we can do. And I believe that fully and wholeheartedly.

Amen. What a way to end the episode because I fully agree. I'm on board with that. Okay. So I have a personal question for you that I ask all my guests at the end, and I'm very excited to hear what yours is. What are your health non-negotiables? These are no matter how busy you are, no matter how crazy life is, these are things that you do to prioritize your health. Yeah. So I have to eat 30 grams of protein and 30 grams of carbs within 30 minutes of waking up. I have a very, um, very proclivity to that New York Jew thing. I have a proclivity to lend towards anxiety if I don't do that. So to stabilize my cortisol patterns, again, no matter what, if I see intermittent fast, ooh, that's a cool study about autophagy. No, no, no, not your thing, Michelle. Not for you. It's just not for you.

Perfect. I have to eat breakfast, 30 grams of carbs and 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking up. That is my non-negotiable. And then I also would say in a more like soulful way, I do not invite people into my life who, um, don't get me. And that makes me like very sick when people like don't get me and I don't get them. I don't invite people into my life like that. And I encourage other people to do the same. And there's a lot of people who like are, you know, if you're from, I don't know, the South or something, and you're from like a rural area, you're going to be like, what is this whole thing that she's doing? And it's totally, even though there's a lot, I have a lot of friends from rural areas in South, but inviting people

into my life who get me and help me feel seen really helps me with my health too. I love that. I love the spiritual piece of that too. Really important. What a ball. I know. Okay. Please tell everyone where they can find you. They got to look you up. Totally. So thank you so much for everything today. I have my own podcast, Quiet the Diet, which is really an exploration of these theories about nutrition and bringing on amazing healthcare professionals on to just talk about how do we bridge that bodily autonomy with that nutrition education piece? And where do we do that? And then I'm just Michelle Shapiro, RD, everywhere else.

Go follow her. She's such an amazing follow. No, follow Courtney. Oh, you're already following her. You're on her podcast, of course. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. This was amazing.

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Real Foodology Podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a Resonant Media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental I love you guys so much. See you next week.