Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Best of 2023

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

In this week's episode Sara and Cariad discuss highlights from their year of books in 2023 - from their top picks, to books they didn't get round to reading and some old favourites that are so good they got a re-read! Thank you to everyone for reading with us this year. We like reading with you!Tickets for the live show on Thu 25 Jan at Foyles, Tottenham Court Road are available to buy here.Sara’s debut novel Weirdo is published by Faber & Faber and is available to buy here.Cariad’s book You Are Not Alone is published by Bloomsbury and is available to buy here.You can find a list of all the books we've discussed on the series so far here or on Apple Books here.Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclub Recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Pasco. Hello, I'm Carriad Lloyd. And we're weird about books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we've created the Weirdo's Book Club.

Join us. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. A place for the person who'd love to be in a real book club, but doesn't like wine or nibbles. Or being around other people. Is that you? Join us. Check out our Instagram at Sarah and Carriad's Weirdo's Book Club for the upcoming books we're going to be discussing. You can read along and share your opinions.

Or just skulk around in your raincoat like the weirdo you are. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. Welcome to Weirdos, Sarah and Carriads' Weirdo's Book Club. I hope you had a nice Christmas. Yeah. I hope it was full of reading and books and just really civilised cultured conversation with your family. It starts with a heavy breathing of my feeding 10 weeks old.

Yeah, it's not us heavy breathing at you. Heavy Christmas. Did you like your books? Milky, wasn't it? You hopefully have listened to our Christmas gift guide that came out last week. And this week, what we are going to do is our best of the books that we wanted to share with you, but we didn't have time to, and the books that we wanted to read, and we didn't have time to. Oh, yes. Ambitious readers.

Everyone who loves books has a to read pile. Mine is going to kill me. It's so high on my bedside table. Oh, is it? Yeah. It's towering over it. It's taller than the bedside lamina. You've got loads.

And then I've almost like burying them. Yeah. Hiding them and sort of forgetting they're there so I can keep book shopping. Yeah, because you want to do more. I can't do any more book shopping while it exists. And also while we have this podcast, I just feel like I have constant homework. Whereas I've gone, brilliant, tax deductible. If they dare question me about my book buying, I'll show them to this podcast and go,

it's called Research Taxman. Sarah started a book podcast so she could buy books. Yeah, so I can legitimise. So there are quite a few books that we wanted to kind of talk about or we didn't have the right guess. Or that just don't fit with Weirdo's Book Club. Because the Weirdo's Book Club is supposed to be about outsiders and feeling more normal. Well, one of those books I think we should talk about is The Brilliant Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zepin.

Which I think we will do at some point. I hope we will do, yeah. That, if you haven't read that. Oh, so good. Surely everyone's read it. Not everyone has. You don't think so. I know you're in the elite readers society of people who like, if it was a bestseller.

Yeah, it's very, very popular. Lots of the shops made it sort of. their book of the year or one of those books that I avoided for a bit because I thought oh everyone's going on about it and then when I read it I was like rightly so yeah so good it's about friendship it's about computer games which put off one of my reedy friends yeah and me yeah he was like oh it's not for me and I was like no no you don't have to be into computer games it's about friendship actually makes you more into computer games or appreciate the beauty of what computer games offer people especially story games yeah and like like connection

yeah and I think it for me it's a really amazing book about working with your friends and how difficult there is to work with your friends. Not just a celebration of working with your friends, just how awful it is when your friends there. Like the joy of it and the tension of it and what it means to work with people that you, they're not just colleagues that you both like that you love.

But I definitely shout out to that one. Yeah. Is there one you want to say that we didn't cover, that you were hoped we did? I've sort of gone, so the book I've most recently, the one of finished last night. Oh yes. There's doppelgangers by Naomi Klein.

This sounds amazing. So she was published the same week as Weirdo came out. So I was very aware of all of the books. So I was like, you know, reading press and stuff. And I read a long review of it, probably in The Guardian or the Observer. And it just sounded so fascinating. It's about her fascination with Naomi Wolf, but they kept being confused. And Naomi Wolf had what she calls a sort of diagonal move from being sort of liberal on the left to becoming not just

right wing, but, you know, conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxer on Steve Bannon's podcast all the time. And so actually, so it's an area of politics I've not paid any attention to because I find it strange and upsetting. So it's really interesting as an insight into that. And then the very last chapter, so she's obsessed with doppelgangers in general. And so that Philip Roth wrote a book about having a doppelganger to himself. And so she's done so much research because she's so fascinated in the idea of it. The whole book is fascinating actually. And you know, sometimes, especially when you're lonely with children and what you feel really starved of this conversation, there are books, non-fiction books like doppelgangers by Naomi Klein that feel like a really

fascinating conversation with lots of like facets. And rather than being dogmatic about a certain view, she really sort of pulls herself up or then goes, oh, I learned this during COVID. Her husband is a politician and she was really shocked by what she found. She essentially was like wellness, you know, yoga teachers, all these people she thought would be on their side, who were the exact opposite. Yeah. And that area of the thing that happened in COVID. Yeah. But it's the most in-depth.

I've thought about something that I've sort of seen going on in my peripheral vision. Oh, that sounds amazing. It's really good. Yeah, I want to borrow that one. Yeah. Now you finish with it. Another one we both read, which I don't know if it actually came out this year, was Sally Rooney's beautiful world, where are you?

I think it came out in paperback because I read it this year, but you, I think you'd read it when it first came out. Yeah, I was excited for the room. Yeah, I kindled it. I'm very basic. I'm very excited for Sally Rooney. I'm, so this is interesting because we've read all of Sally. Sally, she is to us.

And actually, because we'll probably grow old with her. Yes. We'll probably always be like that. Oh, it's like being alive at Mantel when she's just first publishing. Yeah. Oh, I'm happy about that. Just always read them at the time, yeah. Yeah, because Mantel's, she's carked it.

It's probably like the grandmother who's read all of Iris Murdoch. Oh, God, I can't wait for that. Yes. Oh, you don't me tell you, but. Oh, you've just discovered Miss Rooney. Oh, I assume you've read Combin. conversations with friends, otherwise I do not wish to have this conversation with you. Before books were holograms, but they were just written down.

Before AI, Sally was to write to herself. I had, so I love Sally Rini. I do. And I know lots of people who are very, either like us, mega fans or so snobby about her. I think it's the fleabag effect. I think she was so popular that people think they're interesting to be instantly critical. Not that no, anyone is above criticism. It happens so quickly.

Yeah, pushback. Conversation with friends, amazing. And then normal people, obviously, stratospheric. Stratospheric. And then the TV show during lockdown, stratospheric. And then suddenly I just saw this hot take being like,

she's not that good. I was like, oh, what? Well, self had a very early hot take. Oh, Will Self. Will Self and his son sort of pointed out how jealousy was. Did you remember this on Twitter? No, no. This was the fun side of it.

Oh, look. Will Self was snobby. No, that's not a headline. And his son basically said it he was jealous. Oh. But sort of, you know. Well, yeah. I mean, to be that good a writer and that commercially successful, that's what everybody's aiming for.

She's a young woman. Yeah. And so when this one came out, I saw lots of people being like, oh, it's not very good. And it's about her being so successful. And it's really hard to relate to. So I didn't run to it. And I bought it on Kindle. Whereas I saw hard to be successful.

She's written this for me. And both of us then sort of had to, like, private. admit to each other that we liked it. I really liked it too. I didn't like it as much as the others, I understand why that and also understand that that will happen with some books is that if you absolutely love one thing for what it gives you and then the author gives you something else at a different pace, I thought that this book had a lot of polemic in it. Yeah, yeah. There were messages between the characters which felt like Sally Rooney, not exploring how a character behaves, but what they think about, what concerns them. It definitely felt like you were getting Sally Rooney's

take on stuff as well. Yeah, some thoughts. Also, how people people keep creating things when they've been so popular and it makes it difficult. And to be really popular, the other side of that is you become so criticised. Yeah. You become... And isolated. That character is completely isolated. But I thought what...

Because I get it. Like the main character is this like, well, globally successful author. It's like, oh, what an everyday character. But men do that all the time. Yeah. And also I... Male novelists write so many books about male novelists. But I think she was quite critical of that life and she was quite like she dealt

with the isolation and the sadness. Like I felt like she gave a very nuanced view. It wasn't like, ha ha ha, here's me with all my money in my books. Fuck you guys. It was like that character. That's novel four. That's number four. She just becomes a rapper.

She's just dancing on a Bentley. Where are you? Flicking money out of everyone. Yeah, I felt like you, if you could get past that character's success, there was a very interesting book. But I can understand that that initial like, oh my God, it's like someone moaning about their diamond shoes. Like, yeah.

But I thought people were over. really harsh on it, definitely. I think they were really ready to go, not this one, not for me. Yeah, that kind of thing. I had watched this lovely conversation near where I live. There's a very, very small coffee shop that sells wine in the afternoon. And there was a woman.

Mother's dream. There's a woman slightly younger than me. Probably 10 years younger than me, come on. And she was reading Sally Rooney, this book, with a glass of wine. So, I mean, just what a great life decision. Great life decision. And it's a horrible, like, there's nothing to look at. There's a train station and a busy road.

So it's not like she... Oh, I know that one. Yeah. And then this man had done that thing, an older man, of like, oh, what you read in. Oh, God. Fuck off, man. But she didn't say that because she was sort of like a couple of steps into her wine. Maybe she's such a nicer person than me.

And she said to him, I'm reading the new Rooney. My boyfriend won't let me read it in the house. He hates her. But what she said was he hates her and he's not read any. So I come out to read it and I thought, I just love everything about this woman. Yes, but also one day she'll realize she needs to dump that man. Yeah. Sometimes people's relationships based on being very different to each other.

No, Sarah. He's banning you from reading a woman's book. It sounded like she was exaggerating, joking and exaggerating. I think he's bad. You've made my fun story really dark. Oh, yeah, that's what I do. I don't think it's a coercive relationship where she has to hide her reading habits. I make things seem worse than now.

That's my vibe. And that's why it's hard to work with your friends. I feel, and this happens with actresses as well, of like, oh, she's shit. She's rubbish. And I just feel like women who are similar age to you who are doing really well, Brilliant. It's brilliant. It's amazing that that exists. There was a time when it did not exist. Or they had to call themselves Mr. Boobes. That is not a good pseudonym.

Mr. Boobloom, Mr. Camberwell, this is a real beard. You sound a bit ladylike. No, no. And the book's about motherhood. This skirt. Hiding my huge penis. Please publish me. CJ Boops. We like that one. Another one we both read. The list. Yeah, Superstar. Superstar Publishing.

Mm. I mean global, another global success. We were lucky because we were sent it early, so you got a little, a little amuse bouche, a little cake with it. I love that one. A French fancy. Oh, I didn't get the French fancy.

Oh, no, it's not a French fancy. I'm trying to think of the work. You get more. You get sent better things. No. You do. No. It's the one you like, you know, with a two halves.

And in between a macaron. I didn't get sent a macarone. Yeah. It's like a wedding invitation. Oh. Anyway. If you haven't read it. I think that's a really good Christmas read

because it's just a great page turner, great characters. It's also a good one to talk to your friends about. And it's a good one to lend, I lent that one to my mum as well. Oh, lovely. And she was really like a lot of conversations about like the internet and Instagram and what does it mean, when people are successful, how do we know them?

And it's great when the story is great and sort of like, you know, a great yarn for itself. But I actually think the same with the Rooney one. Yeah, but brings up lots of stuff that's going on currently. Yeah, very current. And again, if you're starved of conversation and social things like I am, or have been this year in particular, it's a book that feels like hanging out with friends.

I have visited you. It's not that I haven't seen anyone. But you know that a thing where you go, it's been eight days since you've had like any... One week since I looked at you. Yeah, exactly. I would definitely recommend that one. Is it out?

No, I don't know if it's out on paperback yet. Soon, I'm sure. It's got a nice purple cover with the emoji-sh emoji. Yeah. It's basically about an Instagram couple and something happens that reveals. And it's about call out culture. And you do read it.

I had read it quite sick feeling in your stomach. Like, oh God, what's going to happen? No, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? And it's based on something that's true, which is that people can say things on the internet and they're believed. Yeah. And sometimes those things are really true and that's really important.

And other times it's, God, it's so dangerous now. So I definitely recommend that one. By social media. Anyway, yeah. One from your list that we didn't get to talk about that I haven't read. So did you read Demon Copperhead by Barber Kingselver? Now, my excuses, my mum read it, she said to me, it's amazing, she gave me the hard back copy. Yeah.

It's a mantle. It's to break your wrist. So I haven't read it because it's been too heavy to carry around and too heavy at night time told. Yeah. So I should put it on the Kindle. So it's... And then you said it made you cry. Well, it made me cry a lot.

I read it, but it's the first book I read after I had Albie. Not good choice for first post-partum. So she just won the women's prize and up this wonderful thing because she's published by Faber. First of all, I had been put off, because I thought, because it's based a little bit on David Copperfield. David Copperfield, yeah. You know, sometimes there'll be like things where they'll get six writers to write their new invented versions and they feel a bit pot-boilery. Yeah, yeah. That isn't what this is.

It's inspired by it, but it's a book about modern America, poverty in America, drugs in America, lots of, again, a world that I don't feel familiar with. Barbara Kingselver is such an incredible writer. She's amazing. Shout out to her earlier, the Poison Wood Bible, which I really. read one like 21, which is such a good book. Such a good book. She writes amazing books. I loved the Lacuna, which is the one about Carlos and Trotsky. She's a damn good writer. And this one set near where she lives in the mountains.

And she had been offered the women's prize previously, but she couldn't get child care, and so she didn't get to win it. And that's what she said. She gave a lecture at the woman's prize about childcare and writing. And so that's what spoke so truly to my heart. So I was like, oh, I must read it immediately. I had a baby, started. I started reading it and was absolutely in floods of tears. And I kept, you know, in friends where they're like put the book in the freezer. I was at that stage of like, get it away from me, get it away from me. But I needed to find out what happened.

And again, that thing of being, you make me want to read it. You know, because it's great expectations. You know it's going to end up okay at the end. At least that's the one thing you know from the fact that it's... Dickens should he hopefully gives you redemption. Yeah. But I kept, you know, it's not something else. Something else.

I'm not this. Please, no. But it's absolutely fantastic. Oh, okay. And it's one of those books that... And it's now... Feels real. And it's now out in paperback.

Yes. And I've been... If you're weak-wristed... I am weak-wristed. That's why I mirroring the light on the Kindlemaid. Yeah. And I read it. I once had a yoga class.

Yes. And the teacher said, women always complain they have weak wrists, which is why it's feminist to strengthen them. And she had this whole thing about... Oh, they're so weak. She's like, make them strong then. Your hands are so important.

And since then, I really do do my downward dogs going, yeah, come on. I do so many down with dogs. But when it's a full demon cobbric, like to try and lean in the bed and hold the book, tell you what I do, I pile the duvet up and the duvee supports the book. That is hilarious. I'm going to get your breastfeeding pillow so you can

hold up hardbacks. But it's such a big one. I don't think it's excessively big. You've got the paperback. I haven't. I've got the hard bag. No, you've got the paperback. I'm going to send you a picture when I get home of the hardback. One from my list.

This is an author that I've been mentioning a lot. I mentioned her last week as well. But just to shout out again to Shirley Hazard. Yeah. Sarah Ralterer. I was thinking the estate are going to have to start sending you money. I want the rest of her books.

They'd be like, Hash, hasn't back in the best sell of list. Just if you haven't read any, Bay of Noon, and I only discovered her this year, that's why I'm banging on about this year. And I've started reading Bay of Noon, and hopefully it is on that reason. It is dense. It is dense. It wasn't because of that reason. I don't know what it was. Probably too small for my wrists.

Too small of your wrist because you're like a strong 17-KG. That's what she's lifting. Bay of Noon and Transit of Venus are the two really famous ones. And the reason I'm banging on about her is she is one of the 20th century's greatest writers. She was friends with Gray and Green. She had this incredible life. I think she's very similar writing to Grey and Green. And I had never heard of her until this year.

And so that's why I'm banging on. I'm outraged. I read Bay of Noon, which took her 20 years to write and won this huge prize. And then I was like, why is no one ever, why do I not know her? Yeah. And she's having a bit of resurgence. I've seen other people talking about her. But if you want a kind of 20th century, classic, like, really,

good, juicy writing, like, up there with Graham Green in that kind of... I love Graham Green. Yeah. She's a female Grey Green. We should do Graham Green as well. We haven't done enough men in our podcast so far. They've had enough time. But I would love to do Graham Green.

I'd love to do the end of the affair. If we do Hazard and then we do Graham Green. Yeah. I mean, she was such good friends with Green in the way that everyone sort of hints that something was going on. They were bonking. I think they might have been. And they were both like, oh, I'm a good writer.

You're a good writer. Let's kiss. I'm into it. But what I'm a good writer. like is it's like that level of writing but you're getting from a woman's perspective. It's so interesting. And Bay of Noon is like, again, one of those books that get light into it doesn't seem to be about very much. So when you try and explain to someone what the plot is, like, oh, it's just this woman and she's there and a lot of it's based on real events as well.

So like she, you know, she was working for the UN from like 18 and she was in Naples and she was working for all these people. So the detail was really interesting. But just her sentences. I was reading aloud her sentence. I was stopping people being like, you have to hear this. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So that's my shout out to that's really. Okay. We're definitely going to do a hazard. Yeah, yeah, because I'm... Maybe for your birthday.

Maybe a birthday episode, yeah. Can I talk about my on-screen dad, Adrian Hibenson? He released a book just a few months ago called berserker. And I think this is one that would be such a good Christmas present or if you're buying with vouchers. Because whether that you're, some in your life or you are a comedy fan or just a fan of good writing. It's such a, it's a vulnerable book and it's really funny and it's gossipy and he's obviously a comedy legend. Genius. But he's, it's one of the most interesting books I've read about success because it's

about wanting to do something other than what you're doing that's working well. It's so fascinating in terms of writing a show, writing a successful show and then working again with a friend. Yeah, yeah. And then losing your friend. Like, so, There's just so many elements of it that are, that's really stay with you. So it is a biography. It is a biography. Yeah, autobiography and a story of his career. And he's really, it really feels like he is telling you the truth.

This is Adrian Edmondson, berserker. Yeah, really fantastic. Yeah, I'd like to read that. You'd love it. The cover's funny. It's really funny. It's a good cover. Yeah.

It's a good, because Harbour comedy covers. You don't be too funny. Yeah, do you remember? Tina Faye still wins me for the best one. Don't you remember hers? With the big hands. Alex Baldwin's arms. Oh, is it Alec Baldwin's arms.

Oh, is it? Alec Baldwin's down. I'm sure it's Alec Baldwin. Oh, really? And then her face. I always thought, that's a really good comedy cover. That is a really good one. Normally they make you pose with dogs or something.

Yeah. Or like surrounding. Normally it's surrounded by something, isn't it? Like flowers or like you've fallen into something. Just see the head poking up. Yeah, isn't it? Yeah, that's quite a common. Yeah.

Because it's like, that's funny and nice to look at. Whereas for comedy posters, it's always taken from above like you've got a big head and a little body. Like a microphone. And an itchy head. scratching your own head like, I don't write a whole book? How do I remember all my jokes?

I'll guess I'm funny. I would like to read that one. That looks really good. But you don't want to read my next one, which is Ian McKeown Lessons. We talked about this last week. I do. I'm just bad.

My step-mom. I told her about how I thought it was the best thing I'd read this year. Oh, yes, you said that. And then she bought it, read half of it on the plane home, and I was thinking she's going to hate this book. And she really, really loved it and found it very readable. I'm afraid that Ian McKeown. He's going to listen to this.

Be like, what's your fucking problem, Carriead? I just didn't like on Chaswell Beach. Okay, Ian, if you are listening, please come on, be your guest. If you come on, I'll read your book. When I, I remember starting at Sussex and then finding out Ian McKeown went there. I didn't even know that. I felt fizzy with it. Oh, God.

Ian McEwan. It's because I was into the cement garden at all the time. You know, sometimes people say they're nice, but you've had one... You had this with one of... Yeah, I'm quite bad. George Elliot's books? No, I love George Elliot's books. Silas Marna?

Oh, fuck. Silas Manor. There we go. Fuck that book. There we go. But I did it for Gissi. That nearly put you off reading. Anyone who's out there who's read Silas Manor will agree with me is one of the worst books in history.

It's awful. There was someone who's just started it. Oh, it's so bad. Hold it over the page. She'll listen to a podcast. It's so bad. Look, George Elliott is amazing, but that is not a good book for G.Sissy students. Yeah.

Maybe I should reread it, but it's so moralistic and turgid and slow. Yeah. My ADHD brain was not happy. Well, Ian McEwen isn't those things. And Lessons is about a woman who, gives up motherhood to write. You know when there's a writing, it feels, how do I explain this?

Like when you read it, you feel like they're telling someone else, they're not talking to you. It's like there's such a distance in his writing, and I always feel like I'm in another room trying to eavesdrop. I'm like, what's it? Whereas Mantel, I feel like Mantel's whispering to me. I think with this one, you will feel like you're in the room. All right.

I shouldn't be convinced. Like Chesel Beach, I shouldn't judge one author by one book. I'm like the anti-Sally Rooney's. Yeah. Okay, I really hope this book. You doesn't have to change your mind on Chisle Beach, but it might change your mind about Ian McEwen and his abilities as a masterful author.

I want to shout out to a book that, again, we were hoping to cover it just hasn't happened, but it recently won a prize, the Polari Prize, which is The Whale Tattoo by John Ransom. I have interviewed John for Griefcast. But the reason I want to shout out the Whale Tattoo is it a book that I would not have picked up, had it not been sent to me for Griefcast.

So this amazing book PR lady, emailed me who had sent me another really good guest and she was like oh I've got this guy john ransom his book's amazing and she just kept selling it to me she was very good at her job and the book came and if I describe like it's sort of set in norfolk it's about a gay guy whose mom has died and he thinks a whale is talking to him now that's hard to sell and is a lot gay sex there's a lot like that was the I was like whoa did not expect that like graphic but it's such a beautiful book and it's about growing up and love

and not knowing who you are and he is a genuine working class queer voice that is not very common in the book scene and it said it just recently won the Polari Prize and it was really interesting because I interviewed him What is the Polari Prize? Oh it's an annual UK literary prize for LGBT Plus literature.

Amazing. As in you know Polari is the language that was spoken in the 50s. I didn't know that. Oh! Polari is a lot of. Oh. That's why...

It's stupid, are you? Polari. Yeah, Polari. I'd never heard of it. So, it's a language that they invented in the 50s, and Kenneth Williams used to use it on Radio 4. So they have certain words that only gay men would know. Okay, it's a Radio 4 thing.

No, no, it's not a Radio 4 thing. It's absolutely like a queer community thing, but it was very shocking. So Kenneth Williams, so they used to have a whole language, so it meant because it was illegal to be gay. So two men could have a conversation in the street, about we're going to go and have sex and they would be arrested.

So it was a really important, subversive language that was needed at the time. And so when Kenneth Williams would use words on Radio 4, no one knows. So gay men listening would be like, oh my God, he's using our language.

So it's like very... So that's why the Polari is called the Plurray Prize. And the whale tattoo one. I've summed those things up very quickly, so apologies. I know, but it's really enthusiastically. Yeah, but it's a really important show. And he's got a new book coming out called Gallupers,

which I haven't read, but I'd love to read. And I just... Yeah, I interviewed him at Hay, but I said to him, oh yes, gosh, there's a lot of graphic gay sex. And then a gay man in the audience was like, yeah, and I really appreciate that. And John said this really sweet thing, which I love, he was like, oh, when I was younger, I used to have to go to the car boot sale to get books because there was no library and I didn't have any money.

And he said some books would promise gay sex. And the cover would be like, oh, this is going to be good and it wouldn't deliver. So he was like, I actively wanted this book for gay men to be like, no, no, there's going to be gay sex in it. And this man in the audience was like, yes, thank you. because otherwise you're side stepping it. And I was like, oh, I see. He was like, it's very frustrating to get a book.

They had like a half-naked man on the cover. I think, oh, this is going to be, I'm going to get some experience here that will relate to me and then it didn't happen. That's amazing. Yeah, I was like, oh, it would never have occurred to me. It's happening more in stand-up as well, where sort of buy and queer people,

you know, doing routines about their sexual experience more graphically. And it is just representation. being heard and less boring, sort of hearing things that you don't know about if it's not representing you. But yeah, and I just caveat with like, it is quite graphic. But then there's also all this beautiful, heartfelt sadness with this man who, like, his life is just so sad.

But it's a really brilliant book. I loved it. I'm going to shout out some really great books that I read. Okay. Should you a quick fire shout out? I'm going to be quick fire shout out. So Booth by Karen Joy Fowler. Karen Joy Fowler is amazing, so she wrote that.

We are all completely beside ourselves. Oh, yes. probably heard of, which is just amazing. And I can't say anything because of spoilers and stuff, but it's just really fantastic. Booth is about the Booth family. John Wilkes Booth was one of the booth. It's an area of history I don't know very much about, again, incredibly researched, but more importantly, an amazing book, an amazing book about acting, actually.

It's family of actors. So good. And the mysterious case of Apperton Angels, Janice Hallett, I've read all of her books. They're all incredible page turners with sort of mysteries inside them, and you can't sort of work up what's going to happen and twists, twists and, Red Herrings, it's really fantastic. And then Curtis Sittenfield, Romantic Comedy. I haven't read that one.

I've read a lot of Curtis Sittenfield. I love her writing. Romantic Comedy I read. It's a really good aeroplane book. It's so readable. I've heard lots of people say it's brilliant. And if you like comedy or interested in Saturday Night Live or those kind of shows, it's quite, I mean, it's true.

Everyone who's recommended it has not been a comedian. And I was worried that if you read it and you were in comedy, you'd find it annoying. It reminded me a little bit of 30 rock in that what they're showing about the writing process and the hours at those shows. And Curtis Sittenfield essentially wanted to write a show. She'd seen so many people who'd hosted Saturday Night Live and ended up, so beautiful women ending up with the male writers.

And she just wanted to show that it would explore in her writing if it could work the other way around where you don't have a not-that-attractive woman who's very funny and a good writer dating Harry Stiles type. I say it's good fun. Another one you want to do, quick-tall? Well, I've got two that are non-fiction, that may be less quick-fire, but Matricent's by Lucy Jones.

Oh, I really want to read this. I'd really recommend it to anyone who is pregnant or has been pregnant. And that is not to say that if you haven't or I'm never going to be, you wouldn't be interested in it. I just think actually I think partners of pregnant people might find it really interesting as well. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful about creation and parenthood. And then there were things in there that did genuinely make me feel better.

After having Theodore, I felt so like my career was over. I felt leaving the house was over because I felt so. responsible for him and so reading about the science of what is happening to your body to become responsible for another human being basically feeling that things weren't my fault that there was biology at stake and that biology would proceed over time there were just lots of things that I felt very

I needed science to help me yeah yeah because and so that one's brilliant and then the other side of things the baby on the fire escape by Julie Phillips is about female artists and parenthood that looks really good and and that one gave me a huge huge reading list, but it gave me so many authors I hadn't read so densely well researched and it's such a good accompaniment actually to Matrasence or those two like really hefty books and again felt like really knowledgeable friends giving you snippets and advice and

no not advice in that, not in a self-helpy way but by talking about other women's experience feeling like you belong somewhere on a spectrum which is do you abandon your children to do some work or do you how do you find how do you be all right? with the compromises. Yeah, I really want to read that. Yeah, mattresses and the other one. They both sound great. I want to shout out to Fight Night by Miriam Toys.

I've started that one as well. She got me that one. I love that. Oh, yeah, I did buy you that one. I'm going to finish it. I'm going to finish both of them. That's good because I didn't bore you that again. That one would have been so funny.

Maybe by her fight note. When you said that, it was genuinely like. That time you read it. Yeah. You brought it for my birthday. Yeah. She wrote that one, Women Talking, that became a film that did very, very well. Oh gosh, is that her book? Yeah. Oh, wow. And then... Because she went there and spoke to the

yeah. And then, but Fight Night is not about that at all, but it's written the voice of a sort of mad, very energetic 13 year old. And when I started it, I was like, I can't, I can't read this. This is madness. Because they're so full on. And then suddenly, you know, you just switch into their brain. And it's just all from the perspective of that 13 year old. And it's just watching a teenager understand and not understand adults. So sometimes she's like heartbreaking me. perceptive another time she isn't and it's just like oh god but it's a really really good read and um another one we mentioned briefly a delicious life oh yeah i've got that hand too um we'll do that on the podcast yeah hopefully we'll do so get reading now uh about jorssand going to miyorka with chopin her boyfriend

which i didn't know that they had dated i didn't know she took all her children to miyoka um in the middle of winter she sans and dress as a man and smoke cigars and pissed off the entire meyorkan population. She sounds absolutely brilliant slash insane and Chopin was also mad and they're related it was deeply deeply intense but it's a really it's like a good book in kind of learning about history but from like from characters because it's also a ghost involved who's sort of watching them but it's really good yeah that is how I like learning about history when it's not very factual yeah when it's sort of like intuitive yeah and a little shout out for short stories this

one's called A Woman Went Mad in the Supermarket by Hilma Wolitzer. And she is like in her 90s now. She was also on the grief cast. And a woman went mad to the supermarket was published like in the 60s. And so she had kids and she was hard to write. But she's recently written another short story about her husband dying during COVID. And it's a collection of her work. And she's one of those people who's kind of been lost.

Was a brilliant writer, was like writing to loads of magazines. And I interviewed her. And she was just absolutely fascinating and was really like, surprise that people still reading her work and her daughters had kind of been like, no, you should write it like go back after her husband had died of her, you know, they've been together like years and years and years. And I, yeah, again, it's griefy but not too griefy. And the first short story is absolute like, you know, late 60s housewife,

brilliance of just this woman just losing her mind. I really think we should put something up, which is your scale of grief books, because so often people want to buy books that people who are grieving are all different points of grief. I have a grief library. You do have one. As in like at home, I've got this. I think you should share that with people. Yeah, that's what I mean.

So I could give you from scale one of like, there is death in this, but it's not depressing, to like 10, like this is, you're going to bore your eyes up from getting to them. And also, like, okay, someone's really raw. But they still want something to read, they could read this. Or, you know, it's a few years on. Yeah. It's a, okay, we can do a little grief round up. I'm happy to do that. I think top

I think top recommendation would be you are not alone by Carriad Lloyd I think that's just a really good entry point for brief books The fact that you've done that really undermines the authenticity of the recommendations

Oh god I am sponsored by Caradloid I should say that I should say that Yeah Just for our listeners Just for our listeners I've never read

Orks and Crake Have you not read it? No I haven't read my trilogy It's the That's all right She's written a lot I know

A lot more than you think Yeah So it's part of Mad Adam trilogy and I'm researching for a play that's dystopian, the future, so I've been reading loads of dystopian ones and Oryx and Quake completely forgot what it was about. So I've read that one and then halfway through the year of the flood, which is the next one. But that's really good. Yeah, that sounds good.

For people who like Handmaid's Tale and then think it's a different kind of futuristic thing. Louise Erdick, the Sentence, is one of the most amazing books I read this year. It's about a bookshop, it's about a ghost and it's about Indigenous American. people. Oh. It's kind of coexisting with Fidelas

white people. Really amazing. I read Ordinary People by Diana Evans as well which I'd also really recommend. I'm slightly worried

I'm thinking of the wrong book. I was about to say what it's about. Well, look it out. One of the books I read that was

recommended by one of our guests on the podcast, Eliza Clark recommended Savage Appetites by Rachel Monroe and I read that

and I absolutely loved it. It's one of those books that's quite hard to get hold of unless you go to Amazon and

I think it's out of print. But it's really fantastic people who like true crime. Okay. Or feel complex feelings about their consumption of true crime and crime. Ordinary people by Diana Evans is the one I think you of is set in South London in 2008. And it's about like two couples.

And it's very good relationship book. I think if you're, if you've been in a relationship for a while or it's like, you know what I mean? It like analyzes how people get when they've been in relationship for a while and the way they talk to each other and the way couple friends are as well. Okay. And again, especially if you know anything about London. London is very, it's got really good London specificity, which makes you really feel like, oh, yeah, that woman knows London. Yeah, it was a really good modern book.

Oh, yeah, it's recently written, is it? Yeah, I think it came out very recently. But it's set in 2008 as well, which is like just enough. You know what I mean? You're like, I remember this. But yeah, she's a brilliant writer, Diana Evans. I really enjoyed that. I really loved Trust by Herman Diaz, which my stepmom, again, she recommended.

and I saw that it had won or had been shortlisted for the Booker Prize a few years ago, just passed me by. And the kind of thing that we put you off is that it's about money, like a stock trader. But it actually isn't, it's an unreliable narrator, set of narrations. It's about who gets to tell stories. It's about the people who, a little bit like with Wifedom and George Orwell's wife, whose name is. Eileen O'Shaughnessy. I didn't want to say George Orwell's wife.

The people behind who don't get to leave their voice. It's really fascinating. Biography, who writes the biographies? I mean, we should talk about that. So Wifedom by Anna Funder, we mentioned last week, is this incredible biography about George Orwell's wife, Eileen, who has been written out of history by him and Orwell's biographies. And I'd also like to point out, like, even if you Google it now,

people are out for her. Yeah. The Orwell lot are out for her, saying that she's ruining George's reputation. and she's like made things sound worse. And I just, it's irritating me because I feel like she's just saying a point of view. And people are like, how dare you come for George Orwell? And when you read, you know, they're saying it was based on these one set of letters

and she's skewed it slightly. Now, sure, but I think she should be allowed to have an opinion. I think sometimes people are so sensitive. Especially about George Orwell. So someone has written a book to entertain us. Yeah. And in order to entertain us. us. They've taken a strong perspective.

I'm saying it's all without reading him. But it's a bit like the monster thing. George Or isn't it around. She's not slandering someone who's going to be terribly hurt. Well, they're just they're like, you know, you're attacking this great man and it's like, yeah, she's attacking him and also saying this woman

who edited his work and was an inspiration for his work and helped him with his work. And when he was fucking in Spain was there with him which has never mentioned in homage to Catalonia. is a louder place in history. And I just feel like, what I'm saying is like,

please read that book before you join the people leaving one star reviews being like, she's slandering George Orwell. It's like if this man is, you're not allowed to say anything about him. You're not allowed to criticise him in any shape or form. I didn't know that Orwell had fans that were like,

Believers. Oh, yeah. Basically, that's what we're dealing with. It's funny, I think until you knock someone off a platform slightly, you don't realise how many men are behind that going, not him.

Well, I do think, actually, things that are feminist. That is what happens. So I would just shout out to that again and be like, read it. On a cheerier note, we mentioned her, we've covered her letters, but I just want to shout out to Nina Stibby's fiction,

Man at the Helm, Paradise Lodge, and Reasons to Be Cheerful, the Lizzie Vogel series, which I read all three this year, and reasons to be cheerful is just such a lovely book. Such a lovely, brilliant, funny, like just one of those lovely, you can disappear into that world

and have a good time. So if you're feeling me shouting at you about Georgia Wells, making you not happy, head to Nina Stiffey's fiction work. That's lovely. Just finally for me, I mean I did love so many books I read this year. I reread the secret history. I still haven't read it. You bought it for me.

And I forgot loads. Forgot loads. It's great. I need to read it. I actually looked at my bookshelves the other day and thought, what about if I get to 50, which is in eight years? And then I just go backwards and reread everything I've read and nothing new. Like a time. Quake. You could write a book about it.

And so Secret History, loved it. And I'm really into Mick Herron now, really into slow horses on TV, but also all of his writing. My last shout out is, we mentioned her last week, but yeah, Catherine Rundle's Impossible Creatures. I keep thinking to say Catherine Ryan. Calvin Ryan is impossible creatures. But it's different.

Yeah. Catherine Runders, if you're into your fantasy, Catherine Rundle, Impossible Preachers, and I reread, which I haven't read since I was very, very young, Diana Winn-Jones-Charned which is the first Crestomancy series, which is so dark and so brilliant. and oh my God you forget what kids' books were like in the 70s it opens with a steamer going down and parents drowning so don't do what I did which is try and read it to a seven-year-old thinking because times are changed

because you have to have no parents to have an adventure except where you have to get rid of parents first thing all kids books have like Harry Potter like yeah yeah all of them have no parents because otherwise all kids' books would be like something exciting was happening but mum and dad said it couldn't go out I had to go in and have a sandwich or you've got someone who cares about you and it's like well where are you going I'll protect you.

It was a scary ogre. My dad told him to go away. Yeah. It happens in Impossible Creatures. But Diana Wynne Jones is like one of the OG kids' fantasy writers. So if you haven't read her, do. And the Crestomancy series is, yeah, it's, oh God, it's so good. 1970s, classic, I think.

I think it's 70s. Anyway, that was my last tiny little geek, the geek section at the end. Well, there's a huge range there for people. There's a huge range. Don't say you've got nothing to read. Unless you're in McKeown. Well, you. you're on his team.

Oh, absolutely. I will be on his team. I'll, um, center. I play centre on his team. I'm wing attack. I'm behind him, but I'm not sure. You're on the bench? I'm on the bench.

I'm on the bench. I'm on the rival team, mate. I've come to bust your ass. Who is the rival team of Ian McEwen? It's me in the fantasy geeks. It's me and Catherine Rundle. It's you and hobbits. I tell you what, a lot of us on that fantasy, we've got weak wrists.

I'm looking at Catherine. She couldn't hold a heavy book either. She's very timely. If you are listening, Catherine, please. No, she is. She's got weak wrists. She's really tiny. Live people can be strong.

Gymnasts, that's very skinny. And they can go round. I've only ever messaged you on Instagram. But if you want to disagree about your weak wrists, come in and give me an arm wrestle. Yeah, let's have a find out. And we hope you have a lovely new year. Yes.

Hope you have enjoyed your year of reading and look forward to a year reading ahead. Next week we'll be here with Mike Wozniak. Amazing Mike Wozniak. And we're covering Hillary Mantel, Beyond Black. Oh, yes. That's very exciting. Yeah.

If you haven't read that, get on with it. So much to read. Also, let's say again, don't feel bad if you are not reading all these books. I haven't read any. That's why sometimes we tell you the story. So that you don't have to read them. Make a little note on your phone. Yeah.

That's what I do. And then when you do have time, be like, what is it? I did want to read. Yeah. Holidays, people like to get books for their holidays. They do so, yeah. I'll be just read your own. He's been snoring quietly throughout this episode.

If you can hear, that's going to be the rest of his life, Sarah. You're talking about books and him being on. Yeah. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with. Thank you.