Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Book Club's Back to School!

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

The book club is back to school with a satchel of new books to discuss and some fabulous guests coming up on this series.Welcome back to the book club where you don't even have to have read the book to join in! In this episode Sara and Cariad discuss the books they've read over the summer, Patchett-heads, Rivals, Margaret Thatcher and Mario Kart.Thank you for reading with us. We look forward to reading with you (or not) this series!Support the podcast, enjoy ad-free listening and more weird and wonderful bonus content by signing up to our Patreon at patreon.com/c/weirdosbookclubFollow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclub Produced, recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Assistant Producer is Amy Townsend-Lowcock for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Sarah Pasco And I'm Carriead Lloyd And we're weird about books We love to read We read too much We talk too much About the too much that we've read Which is why we created

The Weirdo's Book Club A space for the lonely outsider To feel accepted and appreciated Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests And writer guests To discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books Writing, reading and just generally being a weirdo

You don't even need to have read the books To join in It'll be a really interesting Wide Raging Conversation And maybe you'll want to read the book afterwards We will share all the upcoming books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram, Sarah and Carriads, Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. Hello and welcome to the Weirdo's Book Club, Autumnnal.

Yeah, it's back to school vibes, isn't it? Back to school, you get to listen to your podcast again. Yeah, and some of you might be listening for the very first time. Yes, that's true. We hope you've had a wonderful summer. We've got a new home in BBC sounds. Yeah, and so perhaps you're thinking, oh, I've heard of those people and I like books. Yes, and it's the first episode. So in this one we're going to be talking about our sort of reading over the break.

Yeah, we always have a little catch-up what we've been reading off syllabus. But usual episodes, we'll have a guest and a book. Sometimes they've written it. Sometimes they just love it. Yeah, and the big thing is, you don't have to have read the book. You don't have to read it. We've read it. We've read it, but we don't want to spoil it for you. So we talk often to the writer or someone else who's read it and we talk around it.

But you might read it one day. You might think, oh, you know what, I am going to order that. You might think, not for me. Yes. Not for me. That's fine. You might then be able to fake it that you've read it and tell people that you have. Oh, that's the best.

And confidently repeat our opinions. You can be like, yeah, I listen to a podcast about it, actually. And I don't think it's very good. We wouldn't say that. So we're going to talk about our summer reading. Perhaps you've done no reading. That's fine, okay? Summer holidays are not holidays.

They're not holidays. I have struggled so much to read this summer. My children have had a seven-week summer holiday. My children got into the crazy frog albums. I blame you entirely for the time. blame you entirely for this. How did they know about this? You must never let them. It's like a gas oven. They can't play with that or Crazy Frog out of them. They can't let them near that sort of thing. Nighttime discos. Yeah, but put on disco. Yeah, but to tie them out. Well, no, because otherwise

they just want Blue by I-Fall 65 over and over again. So the Crazy Frog was trying to wean wean them off on Blue D-D double-D-D. Why are they living in 1997? Why are they very specifically living in them? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's my music view. We want to say thank you. to everyone who messaged us and we just so please. We love getting your suggestions. Yes, we really do. And we do read them all. We don't always get a chance. I don't always properly reply, but we read them. And I'll often, we discuss them and think, oh, should we read that? So thank you for sending us good suggestions. So if you're new to the podcast and you've got

some good weirdos suggestions, please send them to us. Or check whether we've covered it already. Yeah. Sometimes we get suggestions. And I'm like, we've already done that one, babe. Yeah. Check out episode 25. And we've got some amazing guests coming up as well. Really brilliant people coming up. exciting. Some of which we've recorded already. Yeah. So I thought the Jenny of Claire episode was so funny.

Josie Long book is so amazing. Yeah, we did Jenny and Claire at the Sheffield podcast festival, crossed wires. And so that one is coming up soon. We're going to Cheltenham. Yeah. To record a live one there. Yay. I forgot the horses.

I'm racing. Yeah. I was thinking... I thought it was a pun on the word Cheltenham. And I was like, the word horses is not in there, Sarah. That's harm, you're thinking. That's pigs. So basically, if you haven't listened before, we read books, we talk about them.

but you don't have to have read them. You just have to sort of enjoy us. You have to like women talking to each other. Women talking to each other. Women sometimes not listening to each other. Talking over each other. Talking over each other. That's a big part of what we do.

Get on board. If there was a bingo card, if you are joining us, ADHD is going to be there. Oh, it's going to get mentioned. Take that. Take that. Parenting and how hard it is. Yeah. Tiredness.

Edinburgh, the comedy industry. Sussex University. Sussex University. Both our moms. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably the headlines, isn't it? So get on board with that, and we will go on tangents.

There's plenty of book podcasts out there, Sarah. There's serious book podcasts that give you like an English lecture. Oh. We're not that. We're fun. I read a book, the Joan Barfoot book. I'm glad that you read a book. Well done.

The reprint. And John Kearns, previous guest, friend of the podcast, told me that there's a podcast where they talk about books that are now out of print. Oh, yes. And then they become so popular that they, so that's why the Joan Barfoot got published. That's interesting. Republished. Yes, that is a good podcast and I've listened to it and I can't remember the name. I want to say something like Unbound.

Yeah. I was going to say Shadow Band. Shadow Band. That's not right. That's a different list of books. Okay, this fascist, no one reads his pamphlet anymore. That's a very different podcast. You're going to find someone else to do that with.

No. No. You're my best friend. Oh, God. You have to do everything with you. Even if I don't want to. No, I guess, Shadow Band. Imagine if we did like the rest is fascism and we just started covering

for the history. Yeah, and people are like, sometimes brands grow too far. You know, when comedians think they can do anything. The rest is fascism. Because comedians are like, I've won interest in history,

so now I'm going, then they go and do a documentary and you're like, you don't know what you're talking about. Well, your take on Rivals series, too, and how it glamourised the Tories, I thought was really interesting. Oh, did you enjoy?

I feel a bit guilty about that opinion. No, it's a great opinion. Oh, okay. It's a great opinion. Also, because my husband's Australian, yeah. I enjoy giving him your opinions. Oh, okay.

Not that he, because he doesn't really know about the Tories. Right. Like, oh, we enjoying this? It's glamourising the toys, Steen. Look, I've watched rivals one, I've watched rivals two. I very much enjoy that everyone is enjoying rivals. However, when I'm watching it, occasionally I stand back and I go, the love interest of this show is a Tory MP. And if you grew up in the 80s, you know that they were not good looking, they were not attractive, and they were also slowly squeezing this country to death. And I think it's interesting that we're living in the through a period where we're like, you know who was okay? The Tories, they're okay, right? Because they rode horses, come on.

And I feel like there's a glamorization of that, which I think sometimes is interesting to view. Now we're at the age where we remember it. Because if I was a 20-year-old watching that, I'd be like, the 80s didn't seem that bad guys. And you're like, oh, that's a lot. People really don't. It really was very bad for a lot of people.

And we're making it look sexy. Oh, and the lady is for turning sometimes. Turning on. So ladies for turning on. That should be rival series three. Disney Plus. That should be their catchphrase. The lady is for turning on.

If I was working in advertising my shadow career that we talk about, I would do the lady is for turning it on. Well, then maybe they will. They did do the milk snatcher was because her vagina smelt of milk. Who said that? Rupert, the politician. Oh, yeah. God, I'd forgotten that. I'd wiped it out.

Anyway, we need to talk about books. Right. This is a book. This is all on topic. Sorry, I forgot. I forgot it was a book. It's very fashionable to like Julie Cooper. Lots of people are big fans of Tilly Cooper, but I've never really got into it.

So I feel bad criticizing it. But I think she's absolutely beloved and then perhaps people got a bit snobby about her. And then in that way where things just tip over and people are like, they're brilliant at what they're doing. And so enjoyable. And there's some people writing now who are heavily influenced by her. Yeah, she's a big influence. Yeah. But my friend at school read all of them.

Well, I was busy reading Jeffrey Archers, we know. What a great pairing. That's why I can criticise it because I've seen it from the inside. He still doesn't come on the podcast. Oh, do you know what? I got sent. What? Sophie's World.

I'm not written by Geoffrey Archer. Justin Gardner. Jeffrey Archer, Justin Garda. Everyone's going to have a system. Go have a system. Harry Hale says. I've got to have a system. 30 year anniversary.

So I was 16 when I read it. Okay, should we do that? I'd love to do it. Because that's where we bonded. We talked about Sophie's World. That's why I didn't get into Cambridge. Yes. That's not why.

It was one of the reasons my interview for Cambridge went so badly. But I would love to read it now, 30 years on. I'd be really interested. Because I wonder it would stand up. Well, I think it would be different. I think it would be different. very different people. Yeah.

And I wonder if it would seem a bit simplified in a way that at the time. Or the story feels very tact on. I wonder if I would enjoy it. We both love that book. I underlined so many phrases. Well, that was one of the first books that we wondered over. We'd both read it and we both had big chat. Do you remember?

No, I don't remember that. We'd both read it and we were both read it and we were both. Oh, that's good. And we both really liked it. It's good. It's good. I didn't go to Cambridge. It's okay.

There'd be no one at Cambridge being like I read Sophie as well. There'd be nobody going. I read the original kicking out at my school. I don't belong here. I love somebody's world too. Sarah. Yes. What have you been reading?

I wrote it down. I think I would have read a lot less if I hadn't known we were going to do this episode because it is hard to find time to read and I don't feel like I read loads and loads. I'm writing a book in my defence. But here's mine.

Switzy, Natural Disasters, The Fix, Whistler, Loves Labor and the Deborah Levy book you bought for my birthday. Okay, that's an incredible amount to read this summer. Do you think so? Yes.

Okay. I'm bold over that you've read that much. Oh, thank you. Yeah, okay. I can't say it. That's like, look at those books. Okay, good. Okay.

I did not manage that much because we also had homework. We had reading for the podcast. Yes. Well, Switzy, I read as soon as I was sent it, actually. Now, Swixie is by Emma Klein. It's out soon. But it's long listed for the booker. And I knew it was long as, I just love the title and the cover so much.

The cover's beautiful. But it's such a funny thing to call a book. Yeah, Switzie. It's about Dignitas. Is that what it's about? So Switzie is short for Switzerland. Because of the businessmen call it Switzie. Oh, I didn't know.

No. You don't know until we start reading it, but what an amazing title. Yeah, that's great. And the picture. The cover's like a man falling. It's really good. Would you recommend? Yes. It's being compared to Flesh, the winner of the book prize, in terms of, and Emma Klein, it's a little bit like, I want to say like Otessa Moss, Mosvah. Writes in a very different style in this book to how she has written previously. Oh, interesting. People love girls. I love the girls.

And I haven't read the house guest, I believe, is the other one that people love. I haven't read that one yet. and I will read it. And I think with this book, it's made everyone go like, oh, I see, everyone really loves you, a really good, really good writer. Oh, you're taking it to another level if you can do this as well.

Yeah, yeah. It's about a man with sort of declining sort of form of dementia, going to Dignitas. And you're getting his past in fragments and some things he can't keep a grip on. And you're getting little glimpses of something that happened at school, a man he wants to go back and see, and some things about his family,

he goes to visit his daughter. Really interesting. and very readable. I'm very excited. I think it's really exciting when they're, I can't help it. I get really excited when they're young women who do this so brilliantly already. When you go, oh, aren't we all in for a treat

for the next 70 years? That's a good thing, isn't it? You're like, great, this is it. And when you find someone, you're like, I like, I like you're writing, I'm going to be happy every time you write a book. Or I respect you now so much, I will pick up everything and go,

what are you doing now? Yeah. Okay, next one. Well, natural disasters. Oh, Lisa Owens. Lisa Owens. And I thought this is on my pile. I haven't read yet.

I thought this was going to be more talked about and I worry. It has been talked about. It has been talked about. But I don't think it's, when I went to Waterstones and this pisses me off, they didn't have a copy. As in they had bought one the week it came out. So I bought this. I wasn't sent it. Sarah Savitt, who is the editor, is the reason I wrote my very first book because she contacted me off to Edinburgh when she was at Faber and said,

would you like to pitch a book? So I owe her a lot, a great deal. So I saw a couple of people post about it. Marianne Levy, who I'm about to talk about the next book, posted about it. natural disasters is 24 hours a mom who's about to go back to work she's off her maternity leave with two kids trying to have a nice day yeah trying to have a nice day with her kids if you are going through it as I am and I think it's really enjoyable as a comedy even if you're not

or if you've had children and they're grown up or you know you have one or you have six you're a different situation but there's something particularly painful about having two at the ages that she is trying to contend with them I've seen a lot of stuff about it online have you yeah and so I people I respect who I often get book recommendations from are talking about it. Great. I haven't seen a lot in the shops. Yes.

But I've seen a lot of Instagram buzz about it. That's what I think to agree with you. I think in terms of my bubble. Yeah, my bubble is like everyone goes. Oh, it's so good. Yes. And then I look into the world and I go, where's the articles? Yeah.

And I think it's because motherhood and writing exceptionally about the drudgery of motherhood, which she is exceptionally and humorously, I just worry if it's just too easy to dismiss it in terms of how excellent. Yes, how hard that actually is to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, another book about motherhood. And it is, in natural disasters, it is a universe in a day,

which is what keeping two children alive is in many ways. So it's very great. And Lisa Irons, she's married to Simon Byrd. Oh, I didn't know that. That's her husband. I had no idea. So also you feel like you may be getting an insight. But her husband's sort of a way.

He's at work. Yeah. So it's a mom at home and she wants to go back to work. and, you know, all the things that that entails in terms of the kids at nursery and getting them ready. And just wanting to have an adventure. Just wanted to go and do lovely things and how hard. You know, it does anything you plan that it will destroy. Well, when we came to the court today, you've just come back from a brief two-day holiday with your kids.

And you said to me, and there were two other people present who don't have kids. And you said, it was 80% good. And I said, wow, that's amazing. It's really, really good. And the other people looked like, oh, oh, no. And I was like, we were like, yeah, 80% is. No, we're like, that's an achievement. We did it, yeah.

We watched half of a film last night. Because Nina Conti, sorry to segue, Nina Conti recommended anatomy of a form. Yes, you've been talking about it a lot. Well, because I was like, I'm going to see a film. I'm planning to see a film. Yeah, but you're speaking in Edinburgh. You're like, I'm going to watch this film. I know.

I just don't watch. Did you watch half of it? Watched half of it because we loved it so much and then we got sleepy because... It's exhausting. No, no, it's so lovely to watch something. It's beautifully. But you're reading subtitles. You can't go on your phone, which is good.

But we made a decision. I told us. Yeah. You can't go on your phone when you're watching a film. Film, that's, you've got to put it away. No, but usually if my husband and I were watching a show, we would, we would, we would, I'm on Mario Kart. He's reading football stats. That's my heavy place.

That's my heroine. It's my heroine. I have no idea. My screen time's five hours a day. And that's 4.5 hours. People are like, you're not online much. Like, no, I'm on Mario Kart, mate. I had no idea

Do you remember when you got obsessed with Fruit Ninja? Yeah, I had to delete it Yeah So you were so good at Fruit Ninja For three years I have downloaded you and deleted Mario Kart Because I was spending money on there I have no idea

This is happening Because it's my dirty little secret You're actually buying stuff Like buying levels and things Like buying new players Uploading Because you have to buy coins and rubies Your show should not be about

Fucking Ulyssies mate It should be called Maro Card Like this is I don't think it is called it's going to be about Ulysses, and I think it's called Good Boy Mommy, which is the favorite thing everyone's ever said to me. Good boy, mommy. My son said good boy mummy to me.

Oh, that's nice. I found a book he was looking for. Oh, good boy, mommy. My favorite thing anyone's ever said to me. I think it's a great showtustle. Good Boy, Mommy, but an exclamation mark. But we also need some Mario Kart stuff in there. Do you think so? Yeah, this is fascinating. It's too, oh, good. Oh, thank you. It's so shameful. You're so high-bar.

Then you're a Mario cart. I think that's the thing is. High-browl, I'm not high-brow. I'm addicted to my... I'm addicted. I love it. and it really calms me down. I love it. So every other Wednesday, fortnightly, you get uploaded, all new lands.

You're starting again. Okay. I don't know this. I know nothing about my own. And then after a week, and basically depending, you have to get into the top three or the top five.

If you're lower than that, you're going to get downgraded to land. Oh, they take the lands away from you. Not land, it's like the level that you're playing out. So what they're doing is trying to keep you playing. It's called game theory. Yeah, and it keeps you like a little rat going, yeah.

It's funny because this is how I, you about Space NK. Oh. I felt calm in Space Inc. What's the game theory? No, no. There's no game theory. It's in just like new products.

Well, you get the points, don't you? The more you spend. Yes. It is game theory. The whole world is to have a serum because, you know, otherwise I won't get my 10 pounds off the next time I spend money. Whereas what I get is this huge sweep of dopamine like, fuck serum. Yeah.

I'm in first place. With a man who's got a castle for a head. I just had, of all the games, I never would have predicted you were going to say you're addicted to America. Some people watch pornography. Yeah. As people have this secret lives. Let both of us be an example for what can happen if you decide to ignore pornography in your life

or any sexual feelings. Space NK and Marriott. Hey, hey, being over 40, ain't so bad kids. I don't know what you're all mowing around. You had a birthday in the summer. I had a birthday. I had a really nice birthday, thank you. I went to see the summer book.

Yeah. Which is based on the book. That's why I'm bringing it up. By Tovey Anson. Yeah. I did it for a Sarah Cox's book club. Oh, right. I read the book a long time ago.

Yeah. Really liked it. Really loved Tove. Prefer Tove's children's books. Of course. But I do like her adult books. Went with my mum. Also massive Tove Jansom fan.

My mum used to live in Scandinavia. She loves anything Scandinavian. We went to a little art house cinema. We watched it. And it's very lovely, but so so, so that both me and my mom had a little nap. It didn't matter. Lovely. And then afterwards my mom pointed out that Glenn Close looks a lot like Mrs.

Doutfire in this film. And it ruined the film. It ruined the film. She went, I couldn't take her seriously. She looked like Mrs. Doutfire. And it's almost like she's got the same wig on. Like the same white wave at the side.

And once you've seen that, it really hard. Because getting close also is like, obviously amazing actress, but she's very strong. Like she's tall and she's strong. And Tov Janssen isn't. Tov Jansom is like a tiny little sprite. And they showed real footage of Tova at the end on this island that she had Summard him

where she had the cabin. It's like famous, if you're Tova fan. And Inclaim Coast looks slightly like, yeah, there's just like a Mrs. Dapfire energy. So you think Robin Williams isn't dead. He's dressing up on Gros. He's playing Toby Anson. Yeah. But it's a nice film.

But yeah, my mum ruined it slightly by saying that. And I went to see O'Mary starring Jinks Monk soon, which was amazing. I cried with laughter. I loved it so much. But I don't want to build it up because I've avoided anything about it because I've been waiting for this long to see it. Yeah, because I thought it was about someone else. So I thought it was about typhoid Mary. Because I did so much.

I didn't even know who it was about. No, Mary Todd Lincoln. Wrong Mary. And it's basically, it's bullshit. Like, he's just made up so he could do a show. But I'm going to watch Lolli Aphobia. Yes, you're going to watch it. I loved it so much.

I really loved it. So, you know, I couldn't read as much as you because I had a birthday. Yes, she had a birthday. So natural disasters I would really recommend. And I hope what it has then is a build-up. Yeah. Because Lisa Owens wrote an incredibly successful book 10 years ago. So go back to my where I think there's nobbery about Pets.

So, so, um, hardly working or not working, that's what it's called, was billed as like the next Bridget Jones. And that was like single woman working stress. And that one was hugely promoted. Okay. And someone said to me that it was on book of the week or book at bedtime on radio four. So maybe I just haven't seen as much of it. Oh, I haven't, maybe it is all going on really, really well for Lisa Irons.

But I do know what you mean. I do feel like maybe it's, it's one that people, we, we think our listeners would enjoy. Yes. And so the fix isn't out yet. but it's really interesting. So Marianne Levy, who I've talked about before, so she wrote this book of essays that I read just after I had my first child called Don't Forget to Scream,

which is really accessible and very, I think, useful and funny for new parents, particularly mothers. The fix, very interesting for a woman of my age, is about a journalist who gets given a free sample on a new injection, which changes your DNA so that it reverses the ageing process. So it's what happens if you were 45, which is my age, and you and not your husband,

and not your kids, start to look like her you did in your 20s. Oh my God. That's a great premise. It's a great premise. And it's dealt with like a journalist deals with things where there is some commentary and there's a lot of intelligence and very funny. And you really have this dark, I mean, because I spent three quarters of the book wishing it was true. Wishing someone was going to go.

It's going to be that easy. One injection. I've got money. I'll be one of the people going, yeah, I've booked it for a year's time. So do you think if there was one as opposed to Botox, which is like you have to keep doing it? you would go for it because we both talked about. No, I guess what I felt like, because that's what you want.

You don't want your face to be frozen. Yeah, I see. You just want to not age from a point in your life. You go, I'm not trying to look terribly down. I'm just like 32, 33. I don't mind of few wrinkles. Yeah, I wouldn't even need 25. I think my skin was worse than 25.

Yeah. Take 33. That's how I discovered Caroline Hirons and Space and Kay. But Marianne Livy, she's done lots of, I think she's really great because you think, oh yeah, it would just be so great. And yet, how would your husband feel if he looks, now in a restaurant people think he's your dad

or if young men come on to you at places and then how disappointed they'll be to find out your 45 year old mother because that's not where you look like because the packaging is not the truth the packaging is not honest and so oh that sounds amazing

so I think people all love that but not quite yet the substance which I haven't seen because I thought it was scary but I think that's something similar and so I'm glad that we're exploring this in a sci-fi way because I think that's probably the only way to have a big sigh and go

just look your age. Yeah. Just look your age. But that's why I love Marianne Levy's book, because it's a lot about how annoying it is, how hard it is to just go, it's fine. Yeah.

That you look old. Yeah. Because it is fine. It's fine. We're so privileged. We've got too much time to think about it. Whistler? Whistler.

So I also, I only read about two books that weren't homework. I'm sorry, but maybe I did read another one. God. Anyway, I'll have a thing. Whistler. Whistler. I also read Whistler. Anne Patchett. We both love Anne Patchett. We fucking love Anne Patchett. Obviously, we covered Tom Lake.

We've talked about Tom Lake a lot. It's one of, I would say, one of the top books from this pod that we go back to and talk about it. It's the easiest book to recommend people. Love it. Um, Anne Patchett writes perfect. But not just like, they're perfect. Oh my gosh, you're such a good writer. Oh, I see her style. I believe it. I believe it. The second I'm reading and all I want to do is read it. It's not, the thing, it's not like writing. You read it and you go, well, these people are real. Yeah. And I did have that game with Gisler. I had a, I had a good slur. I had a again with Whistler. Whistler has been,

and to be fair, it's just come out and hard back. There's been a bit of, it's been mixed reviews. Who from? Shut up. People mixed reviews

because... I'll kick everyone in the head. I know. I'll pretend I'm a horse and kick a head. Like me and you and I think... Do people not want to have a nice time?

I know. The Patchett heads are like, what is wrong with you? I love being a patchett. Yeah, we're patch heads. We're the patch heads. If she was a band, I'd follow her across the country.

I like, this is what she does. She writes real life and it's slow and it's gentle and it's not like, yeah, there's no FBI explosions. So I would say the reason that she, I don't think she does write real life is she makes me so much happier. Yes.

She writes this thing where it's recognisably the real world, but the way she narrativises things, including in this book, someone looking back to, number one, something quite traumatic. And a mother who had three husbands, she had three step dads, or two step dads and one dad. Happened to Anne Patchett as well.

Yes. Yes. There's a good Vogue article to read about her dad and her stepdads. But she makes me feel so positive, and she makes me feel that if you just love people, if you just give us much, love as you can if you just forgive. And I love the way that she tells stories within stories within stories and makes me wait a little bit and gives me little piecemeal details.

She's very good, isn't it? She would like timelines and like dropping you back in and forth. We know at the beginning that there was this sort of crash. Yeah, we know there's a car crash. And then at that point, her mother left this husband and they never saw him again. So she saw him again at a really young age. Something very intense and stressful happened. But she doesn't know what it was.

And she sort of thinks it's the crash that the set dad is blame for that. we have to wait so long for that information Yeah, it's really good Just eating it up I just and the lovely Sam Baker asked me she asked lots of people For her substack Like watch her summer read

And I think I think I said Whistler Maybe I said the crossborder I think about it because I was stressed about reading But Whistler for me was the book that I bought myself It wasn't on our homework We're not going to do it Because we've already done Ann Patchett

And we don't like to repeat ourselves As you know guys And I just enjoyed reading it so much And I tried to read it on holiday with my kids and obviously I barely got to it. And then we came back from Wales and I just sat in the bath and finished it like the whole half.

That's what I would say. If anyone's in a reading slump or hasn't read a book for ages and once one of those ones where you miss your tube stop or you look forward to someone to stop speaking to you so you can then get your book at. Do you ever have this with your husband carried?

I'm sure your marriage is happy in the mind where sometimes he's like come in like oh I just got news from my agent. I'm like cool cool. And as I'm looking up at him I'm thinking, shut up. He came in. I was in the bath and he came into like, because we were going to hang out.

And I put my hand up without looking at him and I said, I'm about to finish. Because it was the last page. Yes. And I thought it was like an orgasm being ruined. I was like, do not. Yes. I'm putting me back to the real world. I'm about to finish this book.

I'm about to have that feeling of like, oh, everything's okay. And the whistler from the title is a story within a story. Yeah. And I loved that story so much. Yeah. It was amazing. And the horse. Yeah.

And then you know, why there's a horse on the front then. I didn't like the cover. I thought the cover was a bit depressing. and also gave too much to the horse. I was like, I expected a lot more horse action. I liked that it was about the horse. I liked that the title was about the horse. But I read it in essentially two sittings, like you said,

and it is easier and better and more enjoyable to just be greedy with it. Yeah, I think because I got interrupted so many times when I came back to it, I was like, oh, I wish I'd just read this in two sittings. I would have really enjoyed it. But I can't recommend it enough. I immediately lend it to my mum. It's that kind of book. I was like, this is just a great book.

Yeah. You can have a great, get a cup of tea. I get autumnal, I think. Nice. It is autumnal. She's a fucking genius. We won't have a word against Anne Patchett. Patchett heads. Patchett heads for life, mate. I was in a charity

bookshop, Oxfam Bookshop, in Exeter and I saw The Hireling by L.P. Hartley. L.P. Hartley wrote a book called The Go Between, which I studied to an incredible amount of detail in my A levels with my amazing English teacher Mr. Brown, who sadly passed away.

And I have talked about it before. or Mr Brown made that book like, live in my head. And I'd never heard of the Highling. And I was like, oh, he wrote it after the go-between. And it was like £2 for the charity bookshop. Oh, Sarah. It's meant, it's really mad. Like, I read a, it was a bit of an experiment of like,

oh, would you like to read a book from the 70s where I was just trying to describe this to someone else. I was like, there was nothing else to do but read or watch three channels. So they really thought they had your attention. I was a much less competitive Yeah Like the way he's right is slow And it's like

Like tenuous and like Writer now would never dare To write this like The pace of this book I know we're sort of five minutes away from people Reading their phones at the same time As reading a book and like double I was like

LB Hartley you were lucky that phones didn't exist Because no one would be staying here Yeah I have to say I wouldn't like Recommend it And I feel like we don't often say that But LP Hartley Hartley are right

If you've read the go-between and you love it and you're interested in a writer, I found it really interesting from like an English student point of view. It was absolutely mad. But if you sometimes, you know, you fancy a mad old book. Yeah. They're like, you'd never get away with this now. It's about a chauffeur. Yeah.

He's the hireling called Leadbitter. It's a bit Dickensian. And this mad, like, society lady who husbands died and she hires him and he just drives to cathedrals. It's fleshed by David. David Sloy. Do you know what? My husband was reading flesh at the same time. My husband, Ben was reading flesh at the same time. And he was really enjoying flesh. And I said to him, oh, this is like the 70s version of flesh if you only concentrate on one part of the story. But very, very similar men, very similar, but without that kind of humanity that David Salloy gives to everything. Imagine it written by much more repressed person in the 70s. But yes. That would be a great distinction. Yes, I was thinking this. Yes. 40 years of male evolution. Guys, look, have it for free.

We're not going to do it. But yeah, he's a chauffeur and he's driving around all these cathedrals. Talksum, masculinity. Just old-fashioned. No. L.P. Hart is the High Link, Venture flesh. Because he starts lying to her. So she says to him, she's all nervous and she's mad and she just is someone that's basically said to her, you've had a breakdown.

Basically, they say her husband died and she's grieving and basically all her friends are like, are you been going on about it too much? It's been a year, like, stop talking about it. That's insane. You still talk about your husband who died. So then sometimes. someone's like, you need to find someone to talk to. So she hires a chauffeur, does a long drive, and then, like, talks at him as if it's therapy, but doesn't know it's therapy. And then she says, tell me about your family. And he thinks, she's not going to, like, give me a tip if I tell her,

I live by myself, I hate women. I think they're evil. Like, I think you can't trust them. So he invents a family. And then she becomes obsessed with his family. So it's all about, like, who's lying to who and who's using who. But then it's slightly, yeah, it just goes a bit 70s. It doesn't quite do what you want to it. But it was really, like, something. I enjoyed it. I was intriguing. Yeah. It was like a good... I think when you read as much as we are now doing,

I used to be scared of books like this because you're wasting my reading time. I've only got time. Only give me Whistler. But if you're someone who's been a bit more reedy lately and you like 70s... Also, you appreciate the Whistler so much because they are your pure, delightful pudding.

Yeah, pudding. This was not pudding. And it sounds like... A little bit more work. This was like an old dry cake that your great aunt left. but it was interesting to try it. Yeah.

Yeah, so it's a cultural speciality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was one I read. Gone, not as next to your list. So the Deborah Levy is a novel. It's Paris with Gertrude. A year with Gertrude Stein?

Stein. My year with Gertrude Stein. Yeah. And I bought this for your birthday. It's for my birthday. And it made me really, really interested in Gertrude Stein. So Debra Levy, it puts lots of lots of historical things. But not just with Gertrude Stein.

Also with, it's a bit of James Joyce. There was a bit of, um, you know, it's your pound. Oh yeah. All these kind of guys. They're all mates, yeah. Yeah, all working in the same circles,

all competing. Yeah. But it made me really want to read tender buttons and then I stole it from the Edinburgh Literature Festival. So I've got that now. It's quite hard to read. It's much nicer to have quotes of it

given to you via DIPB than to have to just read it in its entirety. Yeah, Gertr-Eystein just by herself is a strong coffee. Yeah, but yeah, after six words, my brain slid away. Yeah. But I think that's the point.

Yes. And also, again, living in a world without phones. Yes. She can just give you some mad stuff for six lines. Yeah. She's not expecting you to go, I can play Mario Kart right now. But did you enjoy it?

Yeah. The Debra Levy. Yes, yes. I did enjoy it. Yeah, there was a missing cat I was really worried about for a lot of it. Okay. But I did very much enjoy it. And then Love's Labor, that's the only nonfiction I read.

And I did read it thinking, I'm going to have to tell, well, Carrie had what I read. And I'm supposed to read one of each. Oh, I read a nonfiction. Okay, well, we'll talk about yours. Yeah. But this isn't called Love's Labor, and it's a psychotherapist, and it's some things that, you Some of his clients obviously disguised, but I love therapists talking about their clients. Is it just about love and relationships?

It's about long-term relationships, really. So he had a very interesting experience when he was young, where he met two couples of older therapists. So two couples, both psychotherapists. Okay, okay. All went to a couple of conferences together, then became a gang, the five of them. And then they had an affair. One of them, the man from one and a woman from the other had an affair and left the other two. Oh, no.

Yeah. And then the ending of that story. is the funeral for the woman who had the affair. And when the other woman was so angry and screaming, and she was saying to her, it's not as bad, you know, it's not as bad as you're reacting, you can cope with this, your children would be fine. This is what people do.

They'd had an affair for a year. And she was saying to her, we just want to be together. And this woman's going, how are you so cold? How are you doing this? And she was like, you forgot all your training. Oh, that's cold. So there's some really, some of it feels like gossip. Yeah.

There's a man in it. And it's 10 years after. he had a Japanese girlfriend, but she was also a meth addict. So she would come to England and she would be clean, and then she would go home and she would lapse. And she walked off a roof. Oh, my God. And he went to visit her family and they had her bones in a basket. It's a Japanese thing that sometimes, I don't know if it's a Buddhist practice or it's a Buddhist priest that does it, where they cremate you to a point where the flesh burns, but your bones stay there.

So they handed him a piece of her skull. So he's having nightmares 10 years later, and then that's what they work out. it is is the sculpture he keeps seeing is the part of his skull because he just feels he shouldn't have touched her. You shouldn't be holding someone's skull. Wow. Anyway, so it's a lot to take from this book. Lots I absorbed of it. It's because I'm one with the character in my novel who's a therapist. So I'm trying to read lots of therapists and watch lots of therapist's Instagram videos,

which is easier than reading to just sort of try and make sure that she talks like a therapist. Wow. Because otherwise she just starts gossiping. Have you thought about having therapy? Wow I don't know how you got there from that No, no Just then you get...

It felt like you'd wait a while to say that Then you get an ice assassin Is this whole podcast a ruse This is when your family all come in Finally, finally guys come out Come out I've got a waste of my time I hire a chauffeur

When I want to talk about my feelings And he takes me to win just a cathedral I also read the finest hotel in Kabul By least du Cess Which won the women's prize non-feited Yeah, you said it's amazing. Oh, it's so good. It's so good.

I recommend it to a friend who wanted a nonfiction. I was like, oh, it won the women's price. You should read it. And then he was messaging me going, oh my God, this is so amazing. I felt a bit embarrassed that I hadn't read it. You know, I was like, oh, God, I've just chucked it out and I haven't read it. Yeah. So then Women's Prize very kindly sent me a copy.

Lees Doucette, if you don't know, is a BBC journalist. She's been a BBC journalist since, I think, the late 70s, early 80s. She's one of my favourite journalists. So she does a show called From Our Own Correspondent where they write, they give journalists a chance, BBC journalists who are based like in Brazil, to write a sort of little essay about another aspect of life that perhaps isn't newsworthy,

but it's interesting. So I grew up listening to her on that. She has a very distinct, she's French-Canadian, I think. She's a very distinctive voice and distinctive way of writing. And this is her debut book, like she's never written a book before. It's so good. The way she captures the story of Afghanistan through the people who worked at basically called the Intercon,

which is the Intercontinental Hotel in Kabul. It was built in the 70s. It was like this, it was the first time intercontinental had built like a luxury hotel. It was like an incredibly high standard, you know, high class hotel. It was the sign that Kabul was opening up to the West. It was the sign that stuff was happening. And by the end of it, you know, the Taliban are operating out of it. And it's not the first time the Taliban have been operating out of it.

So it's just, again, for me and you grew up, you know, hearing of Afghanistan and the way that it's been in our lives. Do you know what I mean? Like, since 9-11, like it's been a place that you're aware, but you don't always know or you just know bad stories. And it doesn't seem real to us. You do need real stories of real people to ground things properly. And she's the thing. She takes the people who work in the hotel who she obviously visited all the time and knew. So like the chefs or the women that worked in the kitchens or the bellboy or the, you know, the hotel manager who,

worked up from like 16 as being like washing the pans and like did all the exams and and it it's just it's such a clever way to tell a story she just captures it in such a journalistic way of like she's not she's not being like this is awful and she also shows you the kind of nuances that the mujahideen and the Taliban and differences between them and the white the people who did know the Taliban and when they're coming in and they're taught like she just makes them real and it makes you understand of like no country's history makes clear sense nothing is black and white and that poor country has just been through so fucking much because of where it is and the things that it holds and you know it's placed between these powers that want to control it and use

it because it's important placing and it's just yeah I can't recommend it enough it's also it's massive yeah it looks really massive but I read it really quickly it's very easy to read and I think again like if you haven't read a nonfiction for ages or you've heard a bit about it but you weren't sure like I just can't recommend it enough it's it's such a It's such a generous thing to do when people write great books about difficult things that we all want to understand more about. Yeah. Hate being ignorant about really important places and go, oh, I don't understand. So I'm just going to put my blinkers on.

And she does it in such a like, like a not patronising humble way. Like she's not like furious with you for not knowing. And she's also not bombarding you with facts in some of those nonfiction books. Like, well, how do you not know in 2002 their GDP was this? Which I think, again, makes you go, oh, I didn't know. She's just taking people and giving you the stories of their husbands, their wives, their children, like the people they're trying to get into education,

like the people who, you know, the pride that they had in this hotel, that's the pride they had in this hotel, and like the weddings that are happening as the Taliban arrive and like people just ripping out headscarves and putting them on and changing the men having to change their trousers. And people from different parts and different villages, meaning different, yeah, it's just, it's true storytelling. And if you know Lisa Sert at all, you know, like, she's amazing at that.

She always has been. But it's so nice to see it, like, contained in a book. And the nonfictionist is amazing. I'm going to try and work my way through all of them. And then you're going to judge them. Yeah. I really want to read the Arndusty Roy one, which is also space. And they're all supposed to be amazing.

But, yeah, Mother Mary comes to me. It also looks amazing. But, yeah, I loved it so much. Just really enjoyed it. I don't have any memory because I keep lending these books to people. I keep just trying to get them out. Oh, because you're just. Chocca block.

Well, I'd chocker, yeah. If you're on the Patreon, you saw it had a big sort out, all the piles. It's too stressful. My gym has started a book swap shelf, so I just take sacks of books down there. Your gym is going to have the best book swap in the whole of London. Why is there so many Sarah Pascoe books here? Another one I read was a friend of the pod. Andrew Hunter Murray, or Andrew H. Murray, as he's known on this,

who obviously wrote bad deeds and has written lots of other books, but this is a new one called Everything Happened So Much. which is kind of science fiction fantasy. I would say it's quite hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. If you enjoyed that, you were like this. And it's just really funny, really silly. And just classic, brilliant, brilliant writing from Andy. Can we have a quick discussion?

Have we discussed that Whistler, the people who published Whistler. We talked about it quickly in Edinburgh at the live show. But yes, they put a quote on from this podcast. From this podcast of you talking about Tom Lake on the back of the book of Whistler. With her name spelled wrong. But also, imagine I did think I was having a stroke when I saw my own name on a book I hadn't read. Yeah, because. Yeah. And it says this is the best book I've ever read. But I literally put my book down, you know, put whistler down, fold, you know, pages down, open on my page and then saw my own name.

And I was like, that's how arrogant I am now. My brain is turning words into my own name. Because, you know, sometimes I hear people whispering and think of him going, Sarah Pasco, Sarah Pasco. I didn't know that. Okay. So my peripheral, and this was before I was in the public eye. I mean, like when I was a teenager at school. Oh, maybe you have told me that. Sarah Pasco, Sarah Pasco.

When we meet her, it would be a funny story. She was in Edinburgh where we didn't get a chance, did we? It seemed like a good event. Everyone was buzzing about the event. It's a great book festival, I have to say. We had a great time. Edinburgh's great. And we have another live show coming up at the Cheltenham Literature Festival.

October the 15th. Brilliant. I am now on October the 14th, Frost and Tatas. But if you want to see us talking about books. You can double drop, Carrie Ann. I don't know. That sounds very rude. October the 15th.

Any other books you need to mention? No. No. The rest are all homework that we've got episodes. What I have written down is Chestington World of Adventures. Does that it be a really good name for boobs? Chestington World of Adventures. Chestington World of Adventures.

It reminds me of a Linda Smith joke, which she said, obviously, before she died, that someone was talking about Melbourne Bragg's hair, and she said, oh, it must be like a Chesterton World of Adventures for Lice. It's so thick and glorious. It's always stayed with me. It's such a good joke. It's a lovely point to end for BBC Sounds. Sounds. Thank you.