Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Friends of Weirdos - Single Ladies In Your Area

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Your favourite Weirdos will be back with a brand new series next week, but to tide you over until then, we're sharing an episode of our brilliant friends Amy Gledhill and Harriet Kemsley's podcast, Single Ladies In Your Area which - all about dating and relationships in your 30s and beyond. For this episode they're joined by special guest... Jameela Jamil!Amy and Harriet joined us on the Weirdos Book Club podcast to discuss Helen Fielding's iconic Bridget Jones's Diary, you can listen back to that episode here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Amy Gledhill here. And Harriet Kemsley. From the Single Ladies in Your Area podcast. And we've got some exciting news. We've sorted your Valentine's Day plans again, as we're doing a special live recording of the podcast on Valentine's Day. A.K.A. Saturday the 14th of February. Yes, we've got a lovely venue.

It's at the Underbelly Boulevard in Soho, London. And we're on late at 9.15pm. So if you have a terrible date booked in, you can go to that, and then join us after for a debrief. Oh, I mean, I'm excited. We had so much fun at the last Valentine's Day show. Yes, and we both absolutely overshared. Will we do it again?

You'll have to come along and find out. Okay, yes, yes, we will. So that's Saturday, 14th of February at Underbelly Boulevard, and you can get tickets at plosive.com.com. Weirdos. Hi, weirdos. We've got a special treat for you before our series starts. We're hosting another podcast,

and I think these people will be familiar to you. Yes, you will know them. from television and comedy and all the other things. But they've also been guests on this show, The Amazing Amy Gledhill and Harriet Kemsley. Their podcast, Single Ladies. Single Ladies in Your Area. And this is the first episode of their new series

with The Incredible guest, Jimmila Jamil. Jamil, Jamil. They've got an amazing guest. It's such a funny podcast. They talk about romance and dating and love. And also being a modern woman in a modern world. Modern women in modern world. We really, I hope you enjoy it. And we'll be back with you with a book episode next week.

Hello, I'm Amy Gledhill. And I'm Harriet Kemmseley. We're both single and in our world. 30s. And we've found ourselves back on the dating scene. And the landscape has changed. Everyone has settled down. But we're back out there. We're desperately trying to figure out what the hell we should be doing. So we're going to speak to experts. Chat about dates we've been on. If we managed to get any. And share your tips and horror stories. So we all feel less alone. We might even get our exes on. Yeah, we'll see about that. This is Single Ladies in Your Area. Welcome back.

I don't know what this is. I don't know. Yeah, and it might be the bad news of Star Wars. Oh, dear. This has gone really badly. I told you I was nervous about doing this. I'm absolutely fucked here right from the beginning. I was going to do like a trumpet thing

when you like announce somebody like da da da. Fuck sake. How would it go when you have like a trumpet? Do you do do do. That's it. No, that's a cockerel. Okay. Okay, so we're not good at intros.

No. We are back, but we're back. That's all we're trying to say. We are back. Welcome to season three. Oh, God. Three. Still going.

Still going. Still single. Still plodding along. What is funny is we are recording this in advance. Yes. So we're recording this before the break. And so we actually don't know. It's like we're speaking to the future us.

We don't know what's happened in between. What do you think has happened? Are you married? Maybe we're in Hollywood. Maybe we're in Hollywood, baby. Oh my God, maybe we're like in Hollywood and like Hot Hollywood Hunks. We're in Hollywood with Hollywood. It's going to be so depressing.

I mean, I can't listen to the episodes. But he says, are you in Hollywood? And I say, nah, Streatham. No, we're in Streatham with no honks. Yeah. We might have hunks. We might have hunks. And that's fine.

We're allowed to have hunks. We're dating. We're getting out there. We're getting out there. We're dating. I didn't think we'd make it to see. Series three? No, everyone said.

You got, your gals will be snapped up within a series. What are you talking about? No, no, no. Nearly two years later. Told it. No, it's not. No, is it? Nearly two, I guess, 18 months, one and a half years.

No. It will be, by the time I'm saying this, future me, it's three years since I left my ex-husband. Wow. What a journey. And how you've grown? And how we've all grown. How we've all grown. How long do you think it would take before you said someone was your boyfriend?

What of dating them. Yeah. Three months? I think three months. Because before I would have been like, oh, I just, I just want them to be my boyfriend. And as soon as I can, then it's like both. But now I'm like, I think there's like, has to be like a process. I think there has to be a process.

Because you're like, like, kind of like, someone's becoming clearer and more like 3D. Yes. It's like someone, like you're like painting by numbers as somebody that becomes clearer. You're uncovering them. Yeah. You're like brushing the dust off and the cobbers and going, who are you? What's on a day? I'm a paleontologist.

You're a paleontologist. I'm like, oh no, it's too uncommon. Oh, and it stinks. It's wrong. and it stinks. We've got to dip La Dukas again. This is a disaster. I love that you've got Egypt and dinosaurs, just all in one.

Yeah, I do it all actually, yeah. Get it all done in one. Victorians, dinosaurs, I'll uncover the bloody lot. It will next to each other under the ground. That's how I imagine it anyway. Yeah, I think three months is a good thing. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

How long would you be exclusive, until you're exclusive with somebody? Oh, I think it really depends. I mean, there's like some men that I have in my head where if they even hinted at us being together exclusive, it would take as long as me saying the syllable, yes. But then there's somewhere like, oh God, I'd need to just, I don't know, six months, three months, I don't know, I really don't know. It depends, doesn't it?

What do you think? I don't know, because the thing is you don't want to assume anything. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Yeah. And I don't want. Mainly me. It's always me. And so you don't want to assume, you know, but then it's like, I don't know.

I just, I think it's like, you know, like I've been dating a bit, but it's just like interesting to know like when something would become something. And also like, yeah, it's just interesting. It's an interesting time. It's an interesting time. And it sounds like you have prospects where this could be a thing that happens in the future. Maybe by the time of series three, maybe. things have changed for you, whereas I

have no one no one. No, but we don't know. Because this is, this, the tables could have completely switched. The tables could have switched. This is what we don't know. And this is the thing. Even people happily married, don't relax. Nobody's ever relax. Yeah, you listen to this. We could be married by the time we're listening to this.

100%. You guys, all alone. All alone. All alone. Just want to make, just don't want anyone to relax. Just say, I've been where you've been. Because people look at me and they're like, yeah, the thing is like with us, you know, like we've been married so long, like we'd never leave each other. And I'm like, that's what I thought.

That's what everyone thinks. No one's getting married thinking this will probably end. Exactly. Everyone's like, oh, but you're like, you're like, I. Yeah. And no one gets into a relationship thinking this is going to end. You get into a relationship because you're like, this is cool. This is going to work.

This is going to work. This is going to work. Yeah. Spoilers. It never does. It never ever does. You're really. got in this life as yourself and that's it.

You're born alone, you die alone. Welcome to series three and thank you. So excited about the idea of divorce is happening across the UK. It's the time of year. It's the time of year. No, I look, I've had a wonderful divorce and I cannot remember. I cannot recommend it highly enough. But if you're happy, wonderful, I'm just saying, have a knicker fund.

Have a what? Maybe you've ever heard of a knicker fund. A knickle fund? Yeah, my friend Sennini's mom used to always tell us about having a knickle of. fun so you just like have a little you have a little stash secretly away this is just for the ladies boys if you're listening oh um just knickers what was i talking about yeah just have a little stash in your knicker drawer and then you have like a little so you can leave a little escape plan yeah yeah just because you never know when you might need your knicker your knicker stash wow i was like god people

women are spending money on knickers in marriages and that's making them happier but no i need A fun. Yeah. Oh, I really like this. Oh, we must keep secrets from men. Every woman has to have secrets from men. Blah, blah, blah, boys, if you're listening, Formula One, Rugby. Football, football.

Buttholes. That manager. That football manager's butthole going round in that fast car. Have a knick of fun. Have a knick of fun. When they're distracted, that's when I say it. Yeah, that's what I distract them with the words. And then I say it when they're thinking of that.

Quick, go to the window. There's a Premier League football. With his butthole out. There is. We must stash some cash for an escape. I don't know why I'm obsessed with the idea that the guys want to look at a Premier League footballer's bumhole. Yeah, that was. I was just trying to put two things together, but actually I don't think that's right.

Oh, he's holding a sausage roll. That's they like that. They like sausage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just do be prepared. Do be prepared.

Always be prepared. Always be prepared. Always. Always. Yeah. Oh, well, I think we've started this as we mean to go on for series three. Is this what we wanted? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we've gone on a journey. I think series one was very much like, oh, we don't know how to get. Series one is so pathetic. I can't even, I cannot even go without embarrassing season one. I know. I can't go either.

But I was thinking about the other day and I was like, if like, I was to get married again or something and then it was to happen again or if I was to have like a breakup in a couple of years, it's like nice to have it there as like a reminder. I don't know if I will ever be in that place ever again. Like I just don't know if I could ever let myself get to that place again. Oh, I feel that place calling frequently. I feel like I could fall back into that place any second.

No, I feel like you're a completely different person. Do you think? Completely, like we're completely different to who we were. And if anyone has had a breakup recently and they're feeling like, I really do recommend going back and listening, if you want to feel better about yourself. Yes. Go back and listen to the first series

where we're just asking people how you kiss someone. Like it's so embarrassing. And it's not even like how you like mechanically kiss. It's like how do you get close to someone's face? Like what do you do? People were looking at us like we were fucking idiots. Yeah. But I really gent.

That's how I felt. Yeah, that's how I felt. I was in the wilderness. I didn't kiss anyone for like 15 months off. for the divorce. Like I just was like, I just shut down. Yeah. We're not shut down anymore. We're open up. We're open for business. We're up for business. Get the word out. Yeah. And series two was a bit more like, okay, we're going on some dits. Yeah. It was like our toes were in the water. Yeah. Yeah. And series three, what is going to happen in series three? Series three, we go skinny dipping. Full body immersion. Full body immersion. Yeah. I can't get my nose under

because I get sinus infections. No, sure. I feel like that about my ears. Yes, we'll just keep up. We'll keep our heads out. Is that sexy? I think that's pretty sexy. I just don't like my ears feeling full of water.

Yeah, I'm same with my nails or passages. So strange that we're still single after all this time. Oh, God, isn't it a man? Don't wet my ears. We're very lucky though because we're starting this season. We're off with a bank. my god, what a ban. I can't really believe we've got this guest.

Neither can't. I genuinely can't. I'm sort of nervous about it. Yeah. Yeah, I am. She's such a legend. She's a very impressive person. That's it. She's a very impressive person. Actor. Activist.

Yeah, she's very good at speaking passionately about things that I believe, but I don't know how to say them. Yeah, eloquent. Thank you. I mean, okay, yeah. Okay, okay. Exactly that. We are honoured to be joined by the one and only.

Jamila Jamil. It's a match. Well, we're very excited. Thank you so much for coming in, Jamila. We've been so excited for you to come. Thanks for having me. We look up to you. Yes.

Why? Just because I'm so tall. Yeah, literally. Yeah. How do you do it? No, because you're so, you seem so powerful. Oh. I think you're very good at saying, you're saying things and I don't know if you are unafraid, but like speaking things that it feels like it's important to say and you say them

and I think that's a great quality. I think my superpower is probably just how comfortable I am with myself. That is a huge superpower. With my journey. And so I don't feel like I owe it to anyone to have arrived at a destination of perfection. And so I think that's what people perceive as power, but it's really just ease. But because we're so unused to seeing ease in a woman, we perceive it as so powerful. Yeah.

It's just ease. And I'm hoping it's contagious and I'm trying to spread it. Oh, we spread. We spread. What? It's all we want. Oh, my God. That's my first Fanny Wafed on a podcast.

Oh my. That's an exclusive. That's a worldwide exclusive. Not my first. To be wafted out. Anyway, I love that. It's like you feel comfortable that you're going to make mistakes because you're on a journey. Is that what you mean?

Or you might say the wrong thing or you're just learning. Yeah, I'm going to fuck things up. I'm going to surprise myself in good and bad ways. I'm going to learn all these different skills that I didn't even know I had. But the reason they try to get rid of women my age and like push us out of society or force us to pretend. like we're just a whittal-widdle-willed guild, is so that we won't, you know, crone out and come and tell all the younger women

and the next generation, all the secrets about how to get to ease faster. Yes, yes. I've been launching my crone years a few years early. Oh, I love this. I'm 40 in like two months, and I'm just like, let's fucking go. Cronier.

I can't wait for my crone years any longer. I think that's so good, though. I think it's so good because I think that is a thing, as women it comes sometimes feel like we're not allowed to make mistakes because especially like we're female stand-ups, it's like you go on as a female stand-up

and you feel like there's, especially when we started, there was a lot of like beliefs that like women aren't funny. Like that was genuinely something people would say to your face. It was just mad. Like women were on stage as well.

Yeah, it's just crazy. And so it's like you feel like you can't be bad or you can't make a mistake because then no other woman will get the chance afterwards. And so the freedom to feel like you can make mistakes

and that everything is not going to end, feels huge. Yeah, totally. And it's so unfair to carry that kind of burden on your shoulders and it doesn't come from nowhere. Like, obviously it's deliberately perpetuated because perfection is the enemy of progress and they don't want women to progress.

Because even when we've been subjugated for the entire history of the world, look how fast we've caught up and now are excelling beyond men in many fields, whether that's school or as surgeons or as homeowners or psychologically. So imagine what. we would achieve if we didn't have a boot on our necks all the time.

So we are terrifying and you only ever seek to destroy something you're afraid of. And so whenever like the media really come after me over something really insidious and stupid, I always know like, oh, I must be doing a good job because they're afraid of me. You only ever seek to destroy something that threatens you. And I threaten a lot of corporate interests and a lot of powerful people. And I'm very happy about that. I don't have any other hobby. I'm so happy about it.

And I think you're so good at, I've seen you online kind of come back at things and be like I've been framed this way. And can you see how this is wrong and what they're doing? And I think that's so new for a woman to kind of have a right of reply and to be able to be seen. That's what's so good about social media that people can see,

you're showing people how it's being framed. Yeah, I've really enjoyed mapping it out. And since I have literally millions of women, have changed the way they look at women in the public eye because I was victim to this pattern. I was such a fucking misogynist without having any idea when I was in my early 20s. And now I have grown up and grown out of it and educated myself. But it was so interesting to be in the middle of a media storm where, first of all, they build you up, they build you up, they hyperboise how amazing you are.

They then over-exaggerate how great you are further and start to put up. pictures of you smiling next to an over-exaggerated headline about how amazing you are, which makes you look to the leader like, you agree, like you believe it. Yes, like you're saying it. Like it's a speech bubble coming out of your head. And so once they know that everyone is fucking sick to death of you, but they're like, all right, fucking hell. She doesn't know it that's stunning.

Like, oh, she's not that great an actress. Then they go in for the kill and start with the spreading of humiliating things or made up things. And they just go through this like endless cycle of wait till you're at your, you're absolute peak because society has got such an appetite for the longest possible fall for a woman, from the highest height. We as a public have an appetite for that because even women are like, how fuck did you do that? What's wrong with you? Yeah. And so they want to see you fall without realizing because we all have internalized misogyny with us. And then once the media

have done that and they've ruined this woman's life, normally she goes away. And then they just go on to the next. And we used to have, it was much harder to identify. It was much harder to identify the pattern years ago because it was so far and few between, like we would have so many, you know, women with such a big public profile, like Jane Fonda or Marilyn Monroe or Princess Diana, but now we have so many celebrities. We have so many women to pick and choose from that it's happening so often. It's almost every few months now that a different woman has pulled into like disgrace by the media and then by social media and we all participate in it. Yeah. And then she goes away and then we just move on to the next. And so it has to be called out and explained as a finely tuned,

like it's a well-oiled machine, an unbeatable pattern. Like you can't, you can't, like, you can't, like you can't unsee it once you see it. And it happens to, it's happened to so many of my friends. It's happened to me. It's happened to so many women that I look up to and admire. And it happened to so many women that I grew up disliking and not even knowing why I didn't like them. Was there a moment that you kind of saw it clearly or that it happened to you where you kind of, your thinking was changed or was it like a gradual kind of? No, it was a gradual thing because I was working as both weirdly on camera talent and a journalist. So I was seeing both sides of it.

I was seeing what editorial wanted me to get out of an actress during an interview. But then I was also the TV presenter who was becoming famous for fashion or DJing or whatever. So I was, it was just emerging slowly as a pattern. And so I knew when in like 2018, 2019, I started this kind of like steep rise of like the internet's golden girl. And people, you know, like I think Harper's Bazaar or someone saying, the feminist hero we need and Time Magazine making me one of the 25 most influential people in the world alongside Donald Trump. So I knew I was like, oh, this is like that bit at Alton Towers where you're just going up the biggest roller coaster.

And I knew it wasn't going to last. And I was just waiting for the moment that I was going to be dragged by my pubes across the gutter. And it happened. And I knew it would. And it was still upsetting. It was still upsetting. But I think the only reason I survived was knowing that this will be over soon and they'll be on to the next.

And now what is my position? Is my position to go away and fuck off like they want me to? Because I've clearly like disrupted too many powerful institutions, et cetera, and pissed too many people off. Or do I come back? Prove that there's life after death. Prove that there's a career after disgrace and humiliate. prove that it's actually not my job to be liked, approved of or believed or anything, really.

Yeah. Just agreed with by everyone. Yes. And so I came back from that and I was like, I'm not only going to come back from that. I'm going to show everyone this pattern so that it protects the next girl and the next girl and the next girl. So that we all start to look out for each other a little bit more and don't keep falling down the misogynist trap laid for us by the media. Yeah. And I'm looking at primary schools at the moment for my daughter and one of them has a very,

really amazing IT class that kind of teaches about fake news and things like that and how the media is handled. Wow. It's such an amazing thing at that age to learn that you can't believe what you're reading and to kind of question it and to see what is making you think a certain thing. That's amazing. Yeah. And so maybe when they come up, it will be different, I hope.

Media literacy is everything right now. It's the last, I mean, I don't even know how far it will even get us because we're in such an age of misinformation. I'm hoping that the AI pushes us off social media altogether. Do you think that's where it might go? Yeah. Well, because I already can't tell. I already reposted a fucking video of a seal being saved by a man from two orcas on a boat.

And I really believed it was real. I'm always showing video. And that's why middle-aged people shouldn't be on social media. I'm like, look at this bear chasing this snowboarder. It's crazy. You see that cat protect that household from that grizzly bear. And so, and then you see. see that little blur that comes up where they've tried to cover up the sorosine and you're just like,

oh God. Oh, you go. And so it loses its value when you learn it's not a real person. My belief with the way that women are being trained to look at the moment, like ageless, lineless, all with the same lips, the same eyes, same nose, same hairstyle, is all to groom society for AI. Because then we won't be able to tell the difference. If a face doesn't move that much anymore, it will be much easier to fake a person with

because we've become accustomed to women's face as barely moving and women having completely pauless kind of Korean level skin and all having the same features. And there's a similarity to all of the AI created models. And we, via filters, became trained to try and emulate that aesthetic so that men will largely be the ones behind creating the women that are seen online. Oh my God. So we're not trying to be like us.

We're trying to be like AI. Yes, and that will make it easier. So then also your actors, your pop stars. Like, you know, you've already seen that girl who was an AI singer who got signed for like a massive record deal. And then Tilly Norwood, the actress, you know, who's going to become an AI movie star or something. You know, they're already quite realistic. But the reason they feel more realistic than they should is because we've become so accustomed to seeing filtered, airbrushed photos of women or women who've gone out of their way to a dermatologist or whatever, a surgeon,

to remove all signs of life from her face. And it's because something that isn't real life is about to replace us is already actively replacing us. Do you have things that you, like, do or thought that you... I'm a real bummer by the way. You've just blown my mind. Like, you're a comedy podcast. I'm a real bummer.

How do you manage to steal... I sent my boyfriend this video of me the other day where it's like, you know, what I signed up to and it's this really sexy woman. And then it's like, what I come home to and it's Bernie Sanders being, and the thing about the climate change and the politicians. That is 100% what he wakes up to, goes to bed with us.

Why his music's so sad? You've got to get in there and sniff them. How do you manage to stay positive in it though? When you're aware of it and you're thinking about it and you're doing this stuff like how do you manage to find the energy to fight it and the positivity and to not look away and to battle it? Dogs. I spend most of my time with or looking at dogs.

Yeah, just hanging out. Just talking about this. I think I might get a dog. You have to. You have to absolutely get a dog. It will change everything. It woke something up in me that I didn't know was in there, which was a soul. What?

Like a little bit of a heart. And so my world just revolves around them. And I think it's a big part of why you just stop caring what anyone thinks about you. As long as your dog is like approves of you and is happy with you, you're just like, fuck. everyone else. And I am genuinely very disinterested in other people's opinion of me. That's incredible. Because if you don't know

me, if it's just parisocial, it's like, I hate everyone. I'm so fine being hated back. It'd be so weird to hate everyone and then want everyone to love you. I'm just like, the people who are like, I don't like you. I'm like, I really don't think I'd like you either.

It's highly unlikely that I'm going to be dying to be your bestie. And so I just don't really seek the approval of anyone who I don't really look up to in some ways. Have you always been that way since you were younger? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, but I mean, that doesn't go very well at school because then you just sort of look like a school shooter. A big school shooter energy, I didn't have any friends.

So you have to find your people, you know, later sometimes. Love that. And I have, and I'm very obsessed with my friends. And I'd say that my friends are my main hobby aside from the, doom of geopolitics. And dogs. And dogs. Dogs are not hobby. Dogs are my identity.

They are my lifestyle. They're my religion. So yeah. So I pour maybe 50% of my life into my friendships. I would say. And that's very precious to me. And I don't have billions of acquaintances. I have almost no acquaintances.

I've just got my closest friends. And I care so deeply about them. I'm so invested in them. I want to build a commune. for all of us called Jamilville is a cult it sounds good though I'm the god

but they are everything to me and so my career and my relationship even somewhat take a backseat to the emphasis I have on friendships and I encourage my partner to do the same

because most men let their personal lives atrophy once they're in a relationship and just become friends with the friends of their girlfriend or the boyfriend of the girlfriend's girlfriends. Yes. And I have always been firmly against that and always warned of such a thing because I think it's really dangerous because it puts too much pressure on me to be someone's universe.

And I think it's such a dangerous part of the 80s and 90s and all the movies that you're supposed to expect like a soulmate and someone who's going to be everything you need in one person. That's why so few people can find anyone. I'm really like I've got almost everything I need in my friends. and then James is cake. And I am cake to James. Do you know what I mean?

We have what we need. We lived with flatmates for the first like eight years of living together. Did you? Yeah. It was so fun. We really miss it. Did that take a bit of the pressure off the relationship as well? Yeah.

It totally did. Like if you have the right flatmates. Yeah. I've once lived with a crackhead. That was not fun. That would not have been good for the relationship. Yeah, for it's amazing. It's like he's got someone that wants to go play video games.

There's someone upstairs. I've got someone I want to watch a certain type of TV show. I've got them upstairs. It's just perfect. That makes them sound like our pets. That's not what that was. They also would come to us to do fun things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

But yeah, just friendship is such a massive, massive. And every relationship that we've ever seen that's lasted into it's like 60s, 70s, 80s, where they're still in love with each other, they are hugely social. And they're hugely social together and apart. And there's just energy and people staying and fun around the house. And so it gives you constant content to talk about. and analyse together. Sometimes it can give you a common enemy,

which is very bonding. He has this line in one of his songs that's let's go home and talk shit about everybody, let's go home finally. And it's about the feeling when we get in the car and it's just like, oh, did you see that face that he made? And it's the single most romantic line, I think, has ever written.

He's written much more beautiful love songs, but that to me is like, oh, that is an ode to me. Like that I feel so seen. That's Shakespeare, you know. That's so nice. I think that's nice. It's like a way of seeing it like untraditionally, I guess.

It's like the traditional idea is you find your partner and then you settle down and you become kind of a smaller insular unit. I was fucked. It's fucked and it's really weird and it's very specific, I think, to this country. Really? Yeah. I really do because I was raised in Spain partially and it's such a different culture. Like me and my brother were not put to bed. at like 6 p.m. or 7 p.m.

And then my mom and my dad stayed in or like, you know, or with a baby. Like we were just out with a restaurant, falling asleep on the chair, on the floor, learning how to behave in a restaurant from two years old. You know, there's wine served at the children's park so that the parents can socialize and relax and unwind. Oh, please.

Yeah. Yeah. What are we doing? Exactly. Everything feels social. Everyone lives like 20 minute walk from each other. People chip in like teenagers aren't just like these coddled infantilized grown children.

children, they have to participate and help with the babies. It's like everyone, it's a communal effort. It's a communal feeling. You know, men have more friendships over in Europe. They have more things to go and do with each other. Because men don't like to do things where they face each other. They prefer to do things side by side with one another. I think this patriarchy has terrorized them out of intimacy.

Because not all men and not all male cultures are like that. Like you go into sort of more Arab places and the men are sitting opposite each other, smoking together, eating late night cake together. But I do think within Europe in particular, you see that men have more activities they go and do with each other and they have more... Fishing. Boys trips and more... Yeah. Silence to each other than silence in a butt.

Yeah. Exactly. But there's less... I'm hearing less about the male loneliness epidemic in a lot of these places. Mostly when we're hearing about it, it's in the UK and England. I'm not saying that men aren't lonely. There's a general loneliness epidemic around the world. But the places where I hear of it being the worst are the place with the most Western patriarchal standards.

Places in Italy where the men are like kissing each... other on the fucking mouth. I haven't heard of the male a loneliness epidemic. You know what I mean? No one's, I haven't heard about it. Yeah. I think it's, is they talk about this idea of the third space

that we don't have so much over here. Like, I think in Europe it's very big that you'd have like, you'd go sit in the square or whatever. So there's like a communal area where you can go and sit and you can have a chat. Whereas we have the signs that just say no ball games. Exactly. It's pub. That is the third space is the pub.

not even sitting in a pub. Who the fuck wants to stand for that long after the age of 25? No, I can't. I can't even go to loud places anymore. Same. I was somewhere on Saturday and it was like so late. I was like, I don't have to have conversations and be in this environment. I'm telling you it's a fucking sigh-up. It's all to make us as lonely and far away from each other as possible. They are, it's an attack on community and a village and friendships and like all the social media of it all, that false sense of being in touch with people, that false sense of knowing what your friends are up to. That's a fucking nightmare.

We've got to cling to each other. We've got to build Jamilvilles all over town. Obviously, name it your own thing. If you want to name it, Jamilville, I would also be very flattered. It's really like, really up to you. Superbrand. I'm coming for Trump towers. You can build opposite.

Oh, my God, imagine. Jamilville is opposite. The Jamilton. Oh, I love it. Been up to much this weekend. Ugh. Let's talk about dating. Yes.

So obviously you have your partner and it sounds good. It is good, yeah. We've been together for 11 years. 11 years. Isn't that mad? I think this is what's nice is to have somebody that's in a relationship that feels healthy and I think we kind of...

We have an experience. Oh no. You have people in unhealthy relationships on the podcast. Well, we're speaking about ourselves. Our previous, yes. We've never, we've not been good in relationships and we're not great at dating either. But we're sort of, we're recognising patterns that we fall for

and we're trying to sort of break out of them. Yeah, which is good. And I think in a world where at the moment, like everyone's talking about, like, is a boyfriend embarrassing or like, it's kind of this rhetoric? And then it's like, you kind of forget what is good about it, like what can be good about being in a partnership,

about being with someone for a long time where you have a support system and to know what to look out for in order to find a partner that is good. Yes. It is worth it. Because it's a massive fucking sacrifice.

Yes. Being in a relationship is like hugely curbing of your liberty if you're not with the right person, if you're not with someone who values their freedom and values yours. Yeah. And it's secure enough to give you that freedom

to work on the things you want to work on, to build your dreams, to go an adventure. You know, we are in a completely monogamous relationship, but we're very, very trusting with each other. We give each other loads of freedom. And so it is a very healthy dynamic. And is it always been

that? No. God, no. Thankfully, he went and wrote about all of it in detail on his albums, so now all of his fans sing my angriest lines from emails back to him on the stage. And I had to

fucking hear that. But no, it took work. It took a But I think, you know, a woman is the leader of the relationship, really. I think in general, in life, especially when she becomes a mother. I'm not a mother. But I think, and what I mean by that is not that you have to lead him, but I think you have to at least lead yourself. You have to be your own leader in the relationship.

We do not believe in being two halves of the same whole. We find that shit really creepy. And when I, when I talked about that in like The Guardian, or The Times or something, I was like, we are two separate holes. They wrote H-O-L-E-S. And I was like, that is not at all what I meant. Also true. It's true.

Also, that would be three holes. Yes. But, oh my God. It's clearly not what I meant. I was so mortified. Wow. We are two holes. individuals

who like found a way to fit together but he's very much so his own identity and I'm very much of my own identity and what complements each other complements each other and then we're allowed to have things that are separate. We don't have to invest in every single part of each other and I feel very grateful to be with a man who's secure enough to do that

and to rise to that occasion because a lot of men haven't, you know, got that capacity in them yet. They haven't found their potential. So do you think that's the difference? It's the man being secure enough to let's want. I think everyone has to be secure, but I just think it's really important

to not allow your entire life to become dominated by your relationship. Yeah. And I think it's very important to not just throw away your dreams and throw away your identity. Yeah. I think it's very important to have goblin time,

which is time away from them to be disgusting, just to be a goblin. You know, just have space. space is almost as important as togetherness. And we have that because we travel for our work. And so I think that's why we're still so in love with each other. Like we don't just love each other. We're actively in love with each other.

That's fantastic. And it's really nice. But it was built, you know, because we were young. We were 26 and 28 when we met, which, you know, might not be that young to the people listening, but that's young to meet the person you are probably going to spend the rest of your life with. And so we had to figure it out. And I came into this relationship knowing that I didn't want to behave the way I had in all of my other relationships where I just laid down my life for that partner.

Yeah. And I thought if I love them enough, if I will lead by example of doing so much for you that then you'll want to do something back for me. Whereas actually people by nature are just predisposed to taking advantage of something or taking something for granted. I was like, I'm not doing that in this relationship. So this poor motherfucker was only 26. And I was just like, no. No. I'm not doing that.

And I was just trying it out. And we didn't really take each other that seriously, you know, at the beginning. But we were both trying out, like, I'm going to be this kind of person in a relationship. And we gave each other the space to do that. So it was definitely bumpy as we adjusted to each other. But we know that we love each other for exactly who the other person is. Amazing. And that's really nice.

And that also can happen when you don't see. seek everything you need from just one person. He is my best friend. He's my fucking ride or die. He's my favorite person to gossip with in the world. He's such a gossip. I love it. I'm going to add that to my list of what I'm looking for.

Such a fun, like, man for women to talk to. Right. He's so fun. To bring a man that is, like, fun for other women is, like, that is so rare. To bring someone in where they're not like, here's Steve, you know, and then everyone's like, He's friends separately with all of my girlfriends. That's great.

Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's so great. But he's just a, but also what's great about him is that he taught me to stand up for myself. He's part of why I'm this, Larry, is because he couldn't understand. And partially this is probably from being a young man who wasn't exposed to that many women. He didn't understand why I would make myself so much smaller than I actually am. He was genuinely baffled by why I wouldn't speak my mind or stand up for myself. or fight back.

And he encouraged me to do that with him, not just against other people. He encouraged me to fight back in an argument of like, tell me how you feel. Tell me how, show me how angry you are. He was genuinely curious because he's such a fucking man. He can take it. And that's where I find this whole manosphere nightmare so misleading for boys. We think that men who can tolerate sensitivity or display sensitivity a week, but it's like, no, those are the strongest men because they know that nothing can threaten their masculinity.

Yeah. He's so manly. what I find especially manly about him is the fact that nothing can rock his masculinity. No amount of my feminism or how my strength or my achievement can rock him because he stands so firmly in his identity. He knows exactly who he is and nobody can take that away from him. And that's what we need to be encouraging boys and men towards. You know, I was saying to you earlier outside that I started to wonder if actually masculinity is more naturally submissive than femininity. Because if femininity was naturally submissive, I think we'd be there by now.

The amount that we have tried to subjugate women, or we have actively subjugated women, and women always end up rising back up and fighting back. Whereas actually when you look at, you know, the people who sign up for war in greater numbers, the people who sign up to do the dog's body work for rich, older, powerful men, you know, going down the minds, the ones doing dangerous shit, the ones hurting other people. Like, you know, you hear about all these horrific war crimes. I'm getting a bit of a bummer again. but, you know, where they're not just raping women as a weapon of war,

they're shoving things inside of them, messages, razzer blades, all these horrific things. There's just not a planet in which an army of women would do that to other people. There's no planet on which women would go out of their way to genocide another race and, like, hurt and kill babies, like shoot babies in their head. There is something submissive in masculinity. And I think that's probably bred by patriarchy. I have no idea, but you even see it in dogs and animals, right?

The girl dog, my girl dog is off, independent, less affectionate, like off doing our own thing, my boy dog, by my side, obsessed with me. Yeah. Like, just very, very, very trainable. The girl dog, much harder to train. You've got to get boy, Amy. Women are so hard to train, which is why they're creating an entire industry, trying to figure out how to subjugate us.

If it was that easy, if it was natural, they wouldn't need an entire industry trying to figure out how to subjugate us. It would just happen. It would just happen naturally. And they've been trying for a really long time. They've been trying such a long time and it's going to be so badly. Women are fighting back in Afghanistan and they're not supposed to speak. They're supposed to not only look out one eye now and they're still taking to the streets and protesting.

So it is just there is something in femininity and the reason I back this up is that all the men I know who are the strongest, the most rebellious, the best leaders all have some form of being in touch with their feminine side. Even the great, like the great innovators like David Bowie or Prince. or Mick Jagger, like there's a femininity to them. There is something inherently rebellious about femininity that I do not see in macho masculinity. Jordan Stevens, that man is in touch with his feminine side in such a beautiful way, there's nothing unmanly about that man. He's amazing.

And look at what a leader and a rebel he is. There's nothing more rebellious than rebelling against the stereotype for your gender. Yeah. We're all in some ways doing that with femininity. We're not all practicing all of the forms of femininity. and being quiet and not having an opinion and not having a podcast. We're all rejecting it.

Yeah. And I think that's the feminine in us and I think it's the feminine in men that make them the most rebellious and extraordinary and it makes them the best leaders. So when I'm... It's just something I've noticed. And I think the opposite of that is like Trump

who... His whole character is built on this idea of like... He's camp, but he wants to be matcher. But all he's... It's a lot of people do. But lots of people do. Absolutely. I just find a lot of the very, very macho people tend to be followers, not leaders.

You know, they're the ones in ice. They're the ones in, you know, like at Border Patrol. They're the ones amongst the police. And the thing that they most need to keep us safe from is other men. Amy, we've got to get out there. Do you have any advice on what to do about young boys being kind of sucked into the Manor's fear and reading these things online, like what do we do to kind of help the next generation and protect them from this happening? I actually do have some advice. Oh my gosh.

I know. I know. It's undercooked. Yeah, this is what we were. Early advice. I have found purely anecdotally, every man that I have been absolutely amazed by when I'm talking to him and just been like, fuck are you? Where did you come from? All of them had a sick mother. all of them had a mother who had a dependency or some sort of vulnerability that she couldn't hide from him so he had to learn at a young age to empathise to help to look after himself to look after another person

look after a woman in particular all of those men are the best men and that tells me that us being superheroes and going out of our way to lead the example of what a great woman is sometimes in some way disables the boys capacity because we over-coddle boys and we under-coddle girls

naturally, but traditionally I'm not saying every single household and every single man in my life who has had almost no work to do on himself, who's like emotionally in touch, emotionally available, knows what maxi-pad sizes are

like just has great friendships with women, has great relationships, is so loved by their girlfriends, always I'm talking about straight men, always had a mother who had a dependency or was a single mother who didn't shy away from showing him

like, I need your fucking help. So they knew how to help. They weren't rendered useless from birth. And so that's just my particular advice is I think women need to tone the stoicism down a notch and stop doing everything and stop performing Wonder Woman because actually what you're doing

is you're setting up his wife for failure because he's going to expect her to be the Wonder Woman that you're pretending to be to impress him. That's my personal opinion. I'm not a mother. I'm well aware that I don't have a right to speak in this space. But as someone who witnesses men constantly,

I feel as though a little bit more of leaning back on them. Actually, in the same way that it makes women so profound and capable, I think it would make them stronger and better and happier and better humans for women to coexist with. Yeah, it sounds like these men that you're talking about I've kind of grown up in the role of the eldest daughter. Yeah. And that's why, you know, the eldest daughter, the stereotype is that they're they're so

strong and they've got so much empathy and they can help everyone. But it's because they've been lent on and they've grown up doing that. And it can feel good. Obviously, there's a balance of how much you should ever have to do in service as a child before you actually don't even build your own identity. But service feels great. Looking after someone feels great. It's pure dopamine, doing a good job,

like protecting another person and not just in the means of like just being a man who's there so another man might not rape your girlfriend, which is the form of protection they understand. It's like, no, protect her fucking peace, protect her the way that she protects yours without you even realising. Some of the time, obviously.

I'm not going to give a blanket statement that all women protect peace. They haven't protected my fucking peace. Okay, so I'm not saying all men are bad or women are good. I'm sure. But you know what I mean? Of course. Yeah.

You know, just in the same way that I think just that to me is, is, I just, I'm yet to meet a man who had a dependent mother who hasn't become the most amazing self-affirmed, self-confident man. Because there's a confidence to those men because they know they can do it in the same way that we just fucking know what we can handle. Yeah. It's such a good lesson for women, I think, because so often you feel like I have to be strong, I have to do this, I have to become kind of the traditional, like. man, I have to take on a man's characteristics traditionally in order to succeed in life, like in business, in parenting, in these kind of things. Like I co-parent, but I'm a single mom. Like you feel like you have to be that.

But actually showing vulnerability is something that is maybe a thing that we have kind of left behind. We don't feel like we can do that anymore. And getting him to rise to the challenge. You know, I was talking recently about the fact that calling men out did not work. Calling men in doesn't really work because they don't want to really talk to us. we need to call them we need to

we need to call them up call them up to the potential we see I've been talking a lot lately about the fact that I find it deeply emasculating the way that the manosphere talks to men as if like you're so inept that you can't ascend beyond this level here so you're just going to need to push women down

so that they stop catching up or overtaking you how offensive imagine imagine being told that as a human being imagine being indoctrinated with that belief that like you'll never grow from this point. So it's only about keeping everyone else down. How sad.

Whereas I think women genuinely have faith. There would be no dating apps if women didn't actually have faith in men's potential and men's power to reach that potential. Yeah. We would just be on a new island of just women. Yeah. There would be convents again. Yeah.

Which I know is what the 4B movement really is. It's just a new... What's the 4B movement? Well, you know, I think it's like South Korea, isn't it? Yeah, it's like... No. No sex, no, okay. Right.

Sex, no relationships. No men. And women are moving in with each other into big houses. Loads of single mothers are like moving in together and just rearing children together. You know, it's like, oh, great, that's someone who actually understands a mental load. And it's a shame that we have come to that point. It's understandable that we've come to that point. But I have extremely high standards.

I just wouldn't be with a man who made my life harder. So if he doesn't bring joy and pleasure to my life, then there would be no reason for me to be in a relationship with him. It's like the Marie Condo method, but for me. Does it spark joy? Is it useful? If it's not, it's no use to me. And that's how they see us, by the way.

Yeah. Which is why when we get sick, they abandon us normally. Statistically. Was it 600% more likely to abandon a sick woman? A woman will be there to the bitter end and then they recover and they're like, feeling better now see you. Yeah. So I would say like the, like I think it's, you know, there's a reason they don't want us to focus on our careers or our educations or, you know,

or, you know, building our skill sets is because then we will need them. I think it's a terrible idea to need someone. And I'm so happy to say that after 11 years of trialing this, of trialing, building, focusing on my independence, focusing on my female friendships, focusing on my friendships in general, and not making him the center of my universe, has led to 11 years of us being mad.

madly in love with each other like the beginning because we haven't disappeared off and put all this pressure on each other and suffocated each other and suffocated ourselves. We have high standards for each other and I've been able to maintain high standards because I have so many other places to find comfort in my life. So I don't need anyone. I want him and that's a really amazing feeling after over a decade. There's a weird anxiety. I think sometimes when you get into relationship of like, oh, I have to like just be with this person all the time. I don't know what that is. It's like a like a feeling of I need to, I just want to be with this person and kind of of a band and everything else. You just can't stop fucking. Yeah. I think it might be. Because you can't

say I love you yet. You feel all these, you've got this love chemical that's going around in your brain and you know it would be fucking mental to say I love you. But you're feeling I love you. Even if it's not actual love, you have the chemical of love in your brain. So the only way that we can express that affection is by just fucking all the time. And that's why we have sex six times a day at the beginning because you're just like, really, you're going, I fucking love you, love you, but you can't, but you can't say it.

So it's how we say it, we spray it, we don't say it, you know what I mean? Sorry, that's foul even for me. We started with a vagina wash. Is it depressing or hopeful to hear someone be like, It's really hopeful. It's really hopeful. It's really helpful. It's like one of the most important things is to raise standards. Like it just is so important. Yeah, but also like that's great. Like we've risen to each other's standards. There were things that I needed to shift about myself that were agitating him and there were things about him that were agitating me.

And we both had faith and patience with each other to rise to those standards. And I love that he's got high standards. And I love that I have to meet those standards. And I love the fact that. that we have set this diner, I mean, I set it up, but we maintain it together. That, like, you don't get the job and put your feet up. You get the job and then you keep the job and then you want promotions. Yeah.

Promot. Yeah. That is... For anyone listening, yeah. That is just... Use your imagination there. Promotions were said with a mouthful. Blow motions.

Flow motions. Yeah. But you want to keep ascending to new levels of love, which are capable. Because once that like frenzy of the beginning calms down, that's when the real shit kicks in. And that's when safety and like someone becoming actually your safer space. Like it's so annoying that I can't sleep without him. It's so annoying.

It's so frustrating. And I'm not at all tired until he comes to bed and then I'm out. Wow. We were just talking about this about a study that means that you are, you fall asleep if you feel safe. So if you fall asleep makes of somebody, that means you feel safe and that that is a, like the best sign. Yeah, but can you imagine watching television? vision with someone like that and I gaslight him every day. Every day he's like, are you awake?

And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, what just happened? And I'm like, she was just talking about the gun shop. You're just going to date to somebody. I'm awake. And I fight like an 11 year old at a slumber party. Like, I fight to insist I am awake and I did not fall asleep. And I'm so embarrassed at the idea that he would think I fell asleep during the TV show.

Yeah, at 8pm. Yeah. It's just so funny there to go on dates with somebody you just keep falling asleep and you're like, this is actually a sign that I feel so. Or no, but sure. Or hit no. If you fall asleep too early, that's actually a sign to call the police. And are you still in your relationship, even 11 years on,

are you still sort of like having chats? Do you have to communicate about, oh, this isn't quite working for me or can we do this or something like that? Yeah, totally. Is it still a constant? It's a constant because you're growing and you're changing and you're shifting. and you have to check in with each other.

It's like, right, there's billions of people in the world. And if you're in our industry, you're access to more of them than if you're working at HSBC. So in order to convince someone not to go and fuck everyone else, you have to be like the best. Yeah. So we're like trying to be like Olympians in our relationship. Like I don't want you to feel like you're sacrificing something

by not dating other people. I want you to be excited to come home to me. So we earn that. with each other. And I very much so, like, neither one of us is like, I'm the prize. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I think that shit is really toxic and intense. I understand where it comes from, but I don't think it works. Like, we're both the fucking prize. Someone wants to try,

a friend of ours wants to say like, you know, you're the garden and he's the gardener. And I was like, ugh, no. We are both wild forests. They're tending to ourselves.

Like, that is horrifying to me. Yeah. I don't, yeah, I just, I think we have a lot of shit backwards. I think it's absolutely devastating that Hollywood has made a concerted effort to make us to emasculate nice men and kind men by always making them the loser and the sweater vest. It's like very deliberate when you actually go back and you look through the movies. I've been watching like old 90s and naughty's movies and he's always got glasses and he's always got a sweater vest on.

He dresses badly, badly shaped trousers and like he's the good guy and the nice guy and he gets overlooked. Hollywood male writers, male rom-com makers and a massively patriarchally run media industry back then especially, perpetuated the idea that the emotionally unavailable, disrespectful man in a leather jacket who rides a motorcycle, I would never date someone who rides a motorcycle. Are you joking? Fucking death trap. Imagine. Imagine loving someone who could die that easily.

Why would you ever date someone who rides a motorcycle ever? Like, no. And somebody who wears that much leather all the time It's going to smell pretty bad. Oh my God, of course. They can't stink. Yeah. I did date somebody who had a motorbike many years ago

and this is way too much information but he's really smelt like vinegar all the time. Oh my God. That is also a pH thing though. The call is coming from inside the house. Okay. It's actually not to do the motorcycle actually. But obviously, yeah, it's like a fucking bacon roll down there.

It's no oven. Yeah. In a. A pigskin oven. It's a pigskin oven. Yeah. He's slow cooking himself. Well, that's why they have to touch their dicks all the time.

Should I about shake hands with men? Openly will not shake hands with men. I do not want to shake hands with men. I don't want to touch their hands. I really don't want to. And it's not just men because also like there's a lot of women who've recently touched a dick and haven't, you know, like, washed it afterwards. You're fine in this route.

Yeah. I can sense that when I walked in. But I talk a lot about the penile imprint and I'm like, I can see it on everyone's hand in my head. Like, as if like, a, like, like, a, UV light or something. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I don't want to shape people's hands because everyone's playing with their cocks all the time. And if I had one, I would probably play with it too.

Well, if it's that hot down there, probably wouldn't move it around. What a bad, poorly designed. Yeah. Nightmare. Like, a bit like tits. Like they're just inconvenient. Yeah. They are fun.

But my fucking God. Leave us alone. No. No. No. God no. Have you heard that big flaps are back? Wow, that's wonderful. I just wanted to say something that you wouldn't expect. They were hard to... Big flaps. Yeah, big flaps. So you know they were like, no flaps.

You're not allowed to have any fanny flaps at all. Like got to be gone, got to look like a newborn baby or a Barbie doll. Now flaps are back. the new trend is to have a puffy labia and so women are getting a special type of filler in an area that has got some of the most nerve endings in your body and we don't have long term studies on what that's going to do

but they're getting their labias puffed up with filler Wow! But it's good to know we're still finding new ways to mutilate Oh thank God because I thought maybe Women for a nonsense porn standard because I thought we might be done. Yeah. No, I know.

I thought earlobe plasticity was the end. What's that one? When you just get your earlobes fix, so it's the perfect size, like a small child. Everything's nonce. Everything is nonce coded. Everything about what we're supposed to look like. It's all nonce coded. It's a bunch of pedos at the top of this industry who want to justify their desire to have sex with children.

By making us all look and behave like children. AI children. It's all non-s coded and any woman who participates in it is participating in nonstom. Oh, God. And so we all have to. I don't want to participate in non-stom. I don't want to be a part of nonscoded. Nothing to perpetuate nonston.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm telling you, we need to like, we need to call it out for what it is. It's nonston. It's nonston. Yeah, and like acting like a little girl and making our voices higher. A friend of mine, I heard her on a business call. And I could tell she was talking to men on the phone because her voice pitched up.

Okay. And her authority, like, disappeared from her voice. And she did that to herself in that moment, from conditioning. But ultimately, we have to take responsibility. ourselves. And I was like, it's all, it's the non-sary of the world that has made you feel like you need to be a little girl to be able to communicate with men and the baby voices and that all of this stuff is, it's all quite disturbing and it's all to draw us away from the power of a fully formed woman. Yeah. Because they're scared of us, you can't be threatening. If you're

yourself, you're threatening. If you're a tiny baby girl. A baby, you're not scary. Yeah, it didn't even have a clitoris yet. Yeah. You know what I I mean, like, that's what they think. It's all puffy down there. Yeah, it's like, you haven't really found it yet, so like they don't have to. Whereas at 40, you just really know who you are. You know what you like. You know, you're much better in bed.

Well, I mean, you might be, I'm not. But other people are. I'm still really like banking on that car accident that I've recovered from like 18 years ago. But other people are really good at bed. I sort of rely on the lulls. Yes, great. Yeah. What was I saying before I started talking about being?

The noncery thing. The noncery thing. We've got to make sure that we stop and vandalising ourselves. Yeah. And like if you're someone who's caught yourself doing it, you can stop right now, you can stop today. Yeah.

It's very important. I speak in my natural register. Yeah. I do not in any way allow myself to hunch my shoulders or try to make myself smaller. I love wearing heels. I love being 5 foot 10. I love intimidate.

both men and women and non-binary people. I enjoy being intimidating. And not in a way of bullying because I'm never actually actively intimidating people, but someone's intimidated by me. I consider that a win for feminism. And I don't hold back my opinions. I don't know if you've noticed that over the years.

But I reserve the right to get it wrong and to try stuff out and to fuck about and to figure out and find, figure out and find my own potential. and I believe in everyone having the right and the space to do that. And I'm rooting for us all, but we've just got to get out of our own way. And I think that one of the things that happened after the Me Too movement is a sort of infantilization of women, a self-infantilization where we've gone, no, no, no, no, but we're not responsible for anything. And it's not our fault about the beauty standards. And it's not our fault about the way that we're trained to speak or communicate.

And it's not our fault that we, of course it might not be our fault, but it is our responsibility at some point to take hold of the situation and move forward. in a progressive way. So we might not have birthed it, but we are absolutely feeding it and watering it and keeping it alive. Patriarchy is being, you know, it's being coddled within many of us. Yeah, it's on the teat.

It's on the teat. We're feeding it. With our own bodies. And I think that I had to hold myself responsible. You know, people sometimes get a bit upset when I talk about how angry I am with my 20-year-old self and how if I met her now,

I'd kick her in the cunt because she tried to kill me. Sure. Yeah. But I do think that it's very valuable to me. I feel very empowered when I take responsibility for my own behaviour. Obviously, anorexia is a mental illness. And I know that I wasn't fully, you know, in the driving seat there. But I also made decisions that I knew at the time were detrimental to my happiness and my well-being.

And the way that I know I had some responsibility is I was able to drag myself out of it. Yes. So the fact that there was an end to that shows I did have more autonomy than society allowed me to believe. And so I cling to that in order. to feel empowered in my life, I cling to accountability, self-accountability, and holding other women accountable,

not just men, and saying we can actually do better. And so that's why, you know, this moment where we're all clinging back to really disturbing 90s, but evolved 90s trying to turn ourselves into like AI level perfection, I consider it a betrayal to women.

I'm like, what are we doing? We have to take some responsibility. In the 90s, we didn't know any better, but now we do, now we do understand bone density, we do understand the menopause, because we do understand patriarchy and the system that wants us to look small and fragile

so that men will look big and strong and feel more powerful. We understand that you're harder to kidnap when you can fight back. We understand that you're harder to take rights away from if you can fight back. It's harder to campaign an empty stomach. So, you know, like I do think it's important to take responsibility for that.

And the way that I manage that within myself is to always be thinking about what my old lady self will be thinking about me now. like if she could look back on me today she'd be happy I ate the monster munch she'd be happy I said my opinion on a podcast that lots of people will hear and maybe I pissed them off

but maybe I inspired some people and maybe some people thought that was interesting and she's still a trap but I was myself you know and so I want her to feel like I was prepared for her and excited for her arrival and taking cod liver old tablets whatever the fuck she needs

starting to lift weights by which I mean carrying around my dog like a little baby. Oh. And so I want her to feel differently to how I feel. I feel like my 20-year-old self was dreading my arrival. And I never want old me to feel that way. So I live firmly in that belief. Yeah.

And belief system is that like everything we do, we should be preparing for our old years because this is the good shit, this is when it gets amazing. This is the happiest time in my life. It's the most comfortable I've ever been in my skin. And that's why I'm so fucking terrifying. And I'll take it.

I love that. Jamila, thank you so much. This is, I think I'm going to just listen to this. I'm going to make it into like a song or something. You know, like, I know. Yeah. I'm going to be like, yeah. Yes, I want to live for my old lady self.

And date for your old lady self. And date for my old lady's soul. Dude, I watch a lot of, and this is super creepy, but I watch a lot of people like talking on there in there, final days or on their deathbed. You know, on YouTube, they do like kind of like sort of random series and interviews. Otherwise it sounds like I murdered people.

I hear a lot of people took. Any final words? I just remember them with a pillow. It's always old women talking about wishing they'd not punish their body so much or wishing they hadn't centred men in their lives or wish that they'd chosen a better partner for themselves, wishing that they hadn't had children,

some wishing that they did have children but like all of these decisions that we're making now someone is watching just think about it that way like she's going to look back on all of us and so I really want to make that woman proud and I think that society

deliberately shuns that old version of us and tells us all just to take any risk we have to just to meet the beauty standard in the now it is so important that we reject that and we are always building men are building We need to be building. They're getting that right. Some things they just get right.

Yeah. The way they advocate for themselves, they get that right. Yeah. The way they show up for themselves, they get that right. And so we need to borrow a bit of that. We need to borrow a bit from each other. Yeah. Yeah.

Do it for the old ladies. Let's do it for the old ladies. And how do you kiss someone? Amy, you just got a lunch. Well, that was very cool having Jamila Jamil on the podcast. What an honour. Yeah. I just feel like I've like.

known her for so lot. I know. It felt really, like, she's a real cool girl. Cool. Sounds like such a lame thing to say, but she's a real cool girl. Yeah. I want her to be my sister. Yeah.

No, I don't actually. I'd be too intimidated. I want her to be your sister. Okay, I'll take it. Okay, okay. No, that was amazing. I'm so happy. We had Jamila, Jamila.

That's really cool. Incredible. She has an amazing podcast called Wrong Turns. Yes. So it's like this, kind of. But it talks about all the wrong turns in life. And it's funny and it's outrageous. She's had Friend of the Pod Sophie Hagan on as a guest,

as well as so many cool people. Simon Pegg. Judy Love. May Martin. Whoa. It's a real who's who. Yeah. High Bar.

High Bar. Can't wait to listen. And that's wrong. turns. Well, I'm so happy that we're back. Me too. It feels good. It feels good to be back. And I'm happy to be back where we belong. Single ladying. I'm talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well then we will see you next week. We'll see you next week. We're weekly again. We're back. We're back. Babies. See you soon. Bye-bye.