Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Introducing Mrs Collins by Rachel Parris with Rachel Parris

Episode Date: December 25, 2025

This week's Christmas book guest is Introducing Mrs Collins by Rachel Parris.Sara and Cariad are joined for a special festive episode by the award winning, BAFTA nominated comedian, writer, improvisor, actor and star of Mock the Week and The Mash Report - Rachel Parris herself.In this episode they discuss the Napoleonic Wars, marriage, Janeites, Hunsford and sex with Mr Collins.Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you!Introducing Mrs Collins by Rachel Parris is available here.Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclubTickets for Sara's tour show I Am A Strange Gloop are available to buy from sarapascoe.co.ukCariad's children's book Lydia Marmalade and the Christmas Wish is out in paperback here now. Recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sarah Pasco. And I'm Carriead Lloyd. And we're weird about books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we created the weirdos book club.

A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests and writer guests to discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books, writing, reading and just generally being a weirdo. You don't even need to have read the books to join in. It will be a really interesting, wide-ranging. conversation and maybe you'll want to read the book afterwards. We will share all the upcoming books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram, Sarah and Carriard's Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. Merry Christmas. Today's extremely festive book guest is introducing Mrs Collins by Rachel

Paris. What's it about? It follows Charlotte Lucas after marrying Mr Collins and questions whether romance is really over for her. What qualifies it for the Weirdo's Christmas Book Club? Well, it's weird how much we all love Jane Austen. In this episode, we discuss the Napoleonic Wars, marriage, Janeites, Huntsford, and sex with Mr Collins. And joining us this week is Rachel Parris herself. Rachel is an award-winning BAFTA-nominated writer, comedian and the improviser. You've seen her mock the week, Live with Apollo, The Mass Report.

She's also a member of Ostentatious, the improvised Jane Austen novel. Whoop! She has her own podcast with her husband, Marcus Brickstock, called How Is It For You? And now this is her debut novel. Happy Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. Merry Christmas. One and all.

One and all. That's a bit Dickensian, isn't it? Sorry. We're not talking about him today. Well, we're going back in time from Dickensian Times to the Regency period with Rachel Paris on Christmas Day. Christmas Day. Yay. Merry Christmas, Rachel Paris.

No Christmas. Oh, thanks for being here. This is lovely. It's important and exciting because. We're talking about Jane Austen. Who, last week, on the 16th of December, had her 250th birthday. Yeah.

Happy birthday, Jane. Happy birthday, Jane. Happy Joyne. Jesus and Jane. Both Sagittarius. I was going to say, and he's a carpenter, but it was like, Sagittarius has nothing to do with wood. I just was thinking centaur in a wood.

Well, he could make himself a bow and arrow. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Did you see that picture of Jeremy from Succession and how he stands, like the top, half a centaur. No, but he does. Yeah, he's posture.

And once you've seen it, you just go, oh, yeah. Yeah, slightly proud. Like he's having to hold himself up. Yeah. Like there's a back. Like he's got four hoods. Yeah. Amazing. What an observation.

Off topic already. Jane liked horses. Obviously, horses are mentioned a lot. I mean, Jane Austen's works. Bringing it back. Nice links. Rachel, this is so exciting. So this year, for the 250th anniversary,

you have written a book. It's not a book. sequel. It's not a prequel. It's a longsider. Is there a word? Spinoff. Spinoff. I keep saying spin-off. I know. And I keep poo-pooing it. Yeah, I know, I saw. I don't accept spin-off. Someone said, this doesn't quite work, but that they could do a tandem read. So it's sort of a tandem book. I felt like it was another dimension. I don't know why.

I see what you mean. I'm trying to find a word that's like prequel or sequel. Alongside. Yeah, yeah. Tangental. Tangental. Tangental. Yeah, because the timeline is almost the same as Pride and Prejudice. Yeah, and then it just carry on. Yeah, you go further. But also, you don't trample on a single thing from Pride and Predidus. So the first thing I want to say is, if you're listening, you're like, oh, no, I love Pride and Prejudice so much. Don't worry.

You're in safe hands with Rachel Praternity. Don't worry, because Rachel loves Pride and Prejudice as much as you do. So don't worry, this is from a place of deep respect and admiration. This is Mr. Darcy's second proposal. This isn't one of those books where it's like, I think it'd be more exciting if some people were vampires in it or zombies. Almost no one's a vampire. in my book. Yes, there was one, and I wanted to talk to you about that in a little bit.

But it's who you want it to be. It made sense. It made sense. I was approached last year about writing a non-fiction, Jane Austen Christmas offering. Because we should say Rachel and I are in ostentatiously improvised Jane Austen novel, available to see at the Vorderville Theatre and on tour. So, a publisher thought, oh, this will be a good fit for the anniversary, non-fiction. Non-fiction, sort of stocking filler, funny non-fiction book, which has a... Hard sell, isn't it? Both Rachel and I have been approached to write that funny non-fiction

Boston book. Neither of us have done it. But also a stocking filler. Like, oh, thanks, ma'am. Yeah. I wanted to tangerine. I've got to eat this book. So I met this editor, Anna Moravietz, who's fantastic, and she said what she thought I should do. And I said, sure, how about instead my sort of passion project idea about getting Charlotte Lucas I'm just going to do a spoiler because I think you can't discuss it without and I think people know this

about Charlotte Lucas getting together with Colonel Fitzwilliam because I've always had that in my head for years Colonel Fitzwilliam is Mr Darcy's cousin in case you are not familiar with the Uber Oh yes Yes yes

Because you said Colonel Fitzwilliam like Oh everyone knows he is No he's another Darcy You gave her a love story I gave her love story Because Jane Austen gives her a story of practicality, which we absolutely understand and respect her for. And I think it's really interesting in Pride and Prejudice that she shows the opposite to Elizabeth, someone who's holding up for love against all sort of rationality for their situation. You watch lots of women had to do, which is suck it up and take the best offer if you get one.

Yeah, and actually the more I talk about her, it's interesting, the more I talk about this book and about, pride and prejudice. I find myself discovering different thoughts about it. I'm not saying the same things now as I was saying at the beginning. And one thing is that, yes, I think Charlotte is practical by her nature. I've certainly chosen to continue that thread and, um, and pragmatic and all those things. But also, I think that even Lizzie at the age of 27, instead of the age of 20, might be closer to accepting Collins. I think that it's a mixture of yes, that is Charlotte's character, but it's also just what her experience has been because she hasn't had a proposal. Yeah. So you do get a bit more pragmatic if you're on the brink of finding yourself unmarried and unwillingly so.

Yeah. So, yeah, I wanted to see what happened if she did fall in love, someone who had convinced herself she was unromantic. Yeah, so we should say it's called introducing Mrs Collins. And so in the book, Charlotte Lucas accepts Mr. Collins. But it's often played, especially visually, that Charlotte and Elizabeth are the same age. Which they're not. And that's what you are talking about there. that Charlotte is in a very different position.

And again, big family, and there are sons who will, like she has brothers, doesn't she, who are going to inherit and not necessarily be able to help her. Yeah. Their self, the Lucas is a self-made. Yes. So he's Lord, but it's just recently a Lord. And everyone's very snobby about it. I think even in Pride and Prejudice, it's hinted at that he and I think Lady Luke is not the most sensible with their money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the idea that Charlotte's not absolutely sure that they're going to have money enough to support unmarried daughters. So, yeah, I think there's a seven-year age gap in that friendship. It's a big age gap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you've been thinking about this for a long time. A few years, yeah.

Yeah. And then suddenly you have an opportunity to do it. She was hot for Colonel Fitzwilliam. Yeah. She liked Colonel Fitzwilliam. What do you like about him? Who's that guy over there that's not getting a love story? I just think he was always so, he was always quite overlooked.

he's really he's just really nice he's just really nice he's really gentlemanly and he's nice to Elizabeth nicer to Elizabeth even though he's not even the one proposing to her

and his manners suit Charlotte more than they do Lizzie I always thought that I always thought he sort of takes a shine to Lizzie which I had to contend with considering he's the love interest in the novel but actually I always thought

he'd probably got on better with Charlotte I think they've got more in common But when she meets him, and I love one of my favorite scenes in your book, is the famous scene when Lizzie's at Rosings, and you see it from Pride and Prejudice that Lizzie has this night when she's like, oh, Darcy's talking to me, Colonel Fitzwilliam's talking to me. And then you have the scene which is like Charlotte married, sat on the sofa being like, could you not just stop flirting with everyone? Charlotte's sitting there like, fuck sake. And she's just recently, she's only been married like a couple of months and she's gone from, yeah, being the one in society, chatting to her friends, the single woman like. having loads of fun to sitting there with Mr Collins and Lady Catherine while her younger, well, not younger, not the men, but like her young friend is being flirted

with by all the men in the room and she's just totally separate from that now. And her sister's there as well, isn't she? Mariah's there, yes. And so, yeah, it's very lonely and that's what comes across from Charlotte. And this is why also I love, I guess, the flashback scenes that you do for all of the characters is that Charlotte's had to contend several times with not being desirable. And actually I thought it was so interesting. The scene that you have with her in 1801 or 1802 at Meriton and sort of her coming out and being in her green dress.

And then nobody choosing her. And the night not going that successfully and her mum's disappointment and her realising, oh, people might not be excited to meet me and dance with me and men might not be interested in me. And I thought how we think a lot about that now because of like social media and how superficial things are and just the fact that probably

that is something that young women have had to contend with forever. Yeah, people ask, don't they? Why do people still like pride and prejudice? Obviously I know my book's not pride and prejudice but that world and it's because so many situations in that world are still the same like wanting to be asked to dance

at the age of 18 still. Wanting to be interested, someone to be interested in you. Wanting the, you know, whoever you're attracted to, men or women, for that person, for you to be shiny in the room. Yeah. And we all know what it's like to not be shiny and then see someone else be very shiny

and have the whole room be interested in that person. And you, that sort of harsh realisation, I think, that happens to you as a teenager. You're like, oh, I might not be the shiny person in the room. But my parents might make me feel like I was really, oh, okay. And it's hard. But yeah, and that's completely relatable from, 1814 to 2025, we still know that.

And the ramifications in 1814 are so much bigger because it's not just, oh, my ego and confidence, it's, oh, will I have somewhere to live? You're fucked, yeah. Yeah, there's a bit later in the novel where she has to really consider her options. And I wanted to be really explicit about that, about her making a list of going, okay, where am I going to live?

You know, going home is an option for her. But that's a really bleak one. Is it would be now, like after, like, after you've lived a portion of your life, kind of, you know, going back to live with your younger siblings, it's still kind of, yes, you can, but do you want to? People have that at the end of university, there was always, there's always that thing of like, oh, God, okay, even if you work out, oh, even if I work full time, I won't have enough money to have a rent. That's why I went to live with Carrie, I don't know, mum. Yes. I went back home and Sarah came with me. Everyone does now, I think.

Child at home. Yeah. Yeah, because I was like, well, I can't afford to go anywhere. And my mom wouldn't let me go home. She made us all move out 18 and then, what was it, the strings were cut. Yeah, apron was burned. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's...

Apron was burned. There's no apron. She changed her phone number. She didn't just cut the apron string. She had one of those ceremonial scissors. This is now closed. Yeah, yeah. Close.

And I wanted to talk to you a bit about choosing Charlotte Lucas. I know we spoke about this before, but like Lizzie is kind of the star of Pride and Prejudice and is the one that often people feel like, oh, if they have such a connection with it. But you've said to me before that even we are reading Pride and Prejudice, you felt like this connection to Charlotte, which I think might surprise people. You're a good person to talk to this about. Yes. Because we've spent so many years, 15 years.

15 years. kind of finding ourselves in the tropes of Austin characters. And I would say between the two of us, you naturally gravitate more towards a Lizzie, or Mrs. Bennett sometimes. And I naturally gravitate more towards a Jane or a Charlotte. And I have, that's true in my reading and my preferences of Jane Austen. Like, I feel like I'm less drawn to her sparkly, her Emma's, her Lizzie's, her Marianne.

I'm not a big fan of it, Matt. No, I mean, yeah, exactly. But I am more drawn to Anne Elliott and to Charlotte Lucas And I don't know, I think I find myself more drawn into delving into who they are But also because Charlotte had such a disappointing future mapped out for her Yeah And we know it went ahead, like it's mentioned, you know, at the end of Pride and Prejudice They both come up from Hertfordshire, like she's still there, still married, this is happening

So I suppose because her ending was not awful, not absolutely awful, definitely, which is what I was keen to make clear in the book. Like, it wasn't definitely a bad decision. She wouldn't definitely have a dreadful life, but I wanted to see if there might be a bit more hope there. And also, you do delve into aspects of her, and actually one of the things I wondered is you do make her funny.

Yes. And so funniness is such a likable trait, both for romantic partners. so in terms of giving her a love story her personality is so important to their attraction to each other. Yeah. I thought she was a bit funny

in Pride and Prejudice in a dry way. I was just having recently, because of this episode, I just listened on audiobook to Pride and Prejudice for two different readers because one of my subscriptions ran out and I had to Switch.

Just a shout out to Indira Varma's one. Oh. And Julia Stevenson, a fan of the show, friend of the show. A friend of the show. Never heard of the show. And I was, because I was thinking of this book, having just read this, introducing Miss Collins, I was like, oh, Charlotte is way wittier than I remember. And she's one of the few people on the whole Pride and Pride is like, Lizzie, the way you're speaking to Mr. Darcy is like, I'm not quite sure why you're this angry with him.

There's like a specific bit where she really, oh, and it's Charlotte who says, which I couldn't believe, I did not remember this story, Charlotte says, Charlotte says, But Jane is not giving any hint that she likes Mr Bingley. And Lizzie's like, oh, don't me stupid. We all know Jane. And she's like, but Mr Bingley doesn't know Jane. And that is why Darcy is able to convince him that she doesn't actually love him. They should leave. It's Charlotte who seems to notice quite a lot of stuff.

So she's really reasonable. But she's very observant. She's quite wise. For someone who's had not much experience of courtship herself, I do think she has, she's got quite a lot of wisdom about it. But I don't know, when I read her lines between her and Elizabeth, not all of them, But some of them, I sort of imagine Lizzie laughing at them. Like, I think she delivers it all quite dryly.

But I think I probably did turn up her humour, like, a bit. But I thought, I can't imagine her and Lizzie being the friends they are. Like, Lizzie really gravitates to her at social gatherings. And they say that she's close to an age to Jane. She should be friends with Jane. Yes. But actually her and Lizzie are friends. Yeah.

And I think she must have a sense of humour, I think, is what I thought. But I think she's better at knowing when to deploy it than Lizzie is. I think she's more controlled than Lizzie I think she's more like she her temper is more even like Colonel Fitzwilliam and I think Lizzie is completely led by her emotions

and she just reacts to things instantly which is why I like Lizzie Bennett because the filter is not there but I think she just has like I said I think they're quite similar in their passion but Charlotte just has the ability to be like I'm at the Meritam Ball not the time to slag him off

like she's just her decorum is better basically And again, that could be age-related. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So because you are a modern woman. Yes. And Jane Austen was not a modern woman.

So you have also added an extra dimension to Charlotte Lucas's sexuality. Yes. But you've very cleverly done it in a way where I don't think anyone's going to be outraged. Yeah, that was the goal. But you also haven't ignored the fact that she had a body and she's gone to bed with Mr. Collins. But also the BDSM stuff that you put. Yeah. Well, look, Jane Austen gives us that.

Actually, yeah. And on the listen, I hear. Hearing Julia described the gag, I realised, yes, she did mention it. It's seeded, isn't it, as it were? So I... There's no BDSM in introducing Mr Collins. Sorry, guys. I felt like I couldn't describe the nuances of a marriage or a relationship without including sex.

Yeah. For someone who hasn't had sex yet. Like the wedding night with Mr. Collins, I just felt like, yeah, I had to include it, but include it in an ostini way. You did. And also, I mean, I'm interested to ask you how much you thought about it because their sex life is how we know whether there's passion there or not. So you had a decision.

I mean, there is a world where you could say they went to bed once. It was so incredible these virgins who'd never been touched that that's why the passion did grow. And they did sort of like, and you could imagine that happening, even with somebody you weren't attracted to. If you're 27. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I thought about that. It was really, it was quite fun and weird imagining the different scenarios that it could be. I think I chose, because Mr. Collins doesn't just come across as virginal, he comes across as really having very little connection in his life to even have disgust to these things. And I think it would be quite, quite a very fortunate coincidence if he managed to have a really good sex. If he managed to give Charlotte a good time and have a good time himself. The character we meet in Pride and Pride and Pride is so religious.

Sometimes people are surprising, though, especially religious people. Yeah, they can be. But he's so academic in his religion. He's not passionate. He's academic in his Christianity, isn't he? Yeah, exactly. And so I thought I thought I'd give a real. I didn't want it to be, you know, as I say, obliquely, they do manage to have sex.

Yeah. And you didn't want to make it too horrific. No. Because that's another thing. I mean, doing something like that with someone you're not attracted to. and you are at that point in time legally obliged to. Yes, your legal conduit. So you've made him gentle and soft.

So it's just unpassionate rather than torturous. Even from the first few pages when he proposes, she describes even his handholding as like so gentle. Yeah. And she says she'll try to put it down to a positive. So that just sort of follows through. But then later on, things happen that make her appreciate his gentleness.

She's like, oh, at least he was gentle with me. Yeah. Things could be worse, you know. Yeah, especially at that time. And I guess that's the thing which, you know, a lot of people do say, like, it is a practical choice. Mr Collins is annoying, but like it's not a bad place to put your bag. Yeah.

He has money. He has a house. He is kind. It is just, you know, pompous and, like, arrogant. And when I was re-listing to Pride and Prejudice, I'd forgotten how bad the letter is that he writes after Lydia runs off. Yes. Like that's one of his absolute worst.

That's when you're like, when he's moral, he's a porous. Awful. But when he's not being moral about something, like you said, he's attentive and sweet. It's like she just, you know, that's again, the beauty of Austin. She gives you very nuanced character. So you can see why Charlotte, like in that, I guess in that time, 18, 12, 8, 14, there could be some horrible men you could get shacked up with who would fall. like forced you to have sex whenever they felt like him.

Collins isn't going to do that. I think you really do that very well in this book. That's very believable. Their relationship is very believable. That letter was very useful because I could feel actually probably the reader sympathising so much with Collins that perhaps they would lose that no, he is a very flawed person. Yeah, that lets is so bad. That's the episode with the letter where I've, we don't obviously repeat the letter,

but readers know what that letter was that like, oh, Mr. Collins, you are still Mr. Collins. Like, you're not just a hapless, innocent person. But you do flesh him out a lot in this book. Like, I was surprised. Yeah, more than I intended to, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, when you, from the start of this book to the finish the book,

did you feel differently about him? Yeah, it wasn't really the plan. I did have sort of two lofty goals in writing the book. One of them was that I didn't want Charlotte's marriage to Mr. Collins to be the obstacle of the book. And the second one was that I didn't want Charlotte finding love to be the solution of the book. So the goal was that the marriage becomes acceptable, but also her finding love is a lovely cherry on the top of her finding herself. But I didn't really set out to write as much about Mr Collins, but the more I did, like when I wrote one flashback chapter about him, I thought, no, I think we need more. I think we need more to how did he get to even that stage?

I think I wrote the university flashback and then I was like, no, I think I want to see him as a child with his father because Jane Austen tells us about his father. Yeah, I found myself growing more and more into Mr Collins as the book went on. This is what I love as a lover of Pride and Prejudice is that what you've given me is more that doesn't ever, for me, fight with the original text.

You've taken what Jane Austen wrote and developed it. I feel like, so we're seeing something. I love the scenes where I've read one version and now I'm seeing it from where Charlotte's sitting at the table. And that's what I love about the Mr. Collins flashbacks. But also, as we know, because we've talked about this before, so Pride and Prejudice, sort of the war is absent. Yes.

And you haven't made that the case, which means that as we're getting to know Colonel Fitzwilliam, It's as an actual soldier who talks about, well, in a limited sense, but about his experience. And, you know, you're making it much realer for us what his life is like. It's not just a name or a title. Or just the regiment. That's all we get in Pride and Pride. They're just the regiment.

Exactly. Well, I had no idea about any of that stuff when I pitched the book about the war, about the militia or the military. And that was the biggest amount of research that I had to do by a lot, by so much. So tell us about the research. Okay, so I ask Greg Jenner for help. Oh, yeah. And Greg Jenner was like, I haven't got time. But also, it's not his area of absolute expertise.

So he put me on to Dr. Zach White, who is a massive expert in the Napoleonic Wars. And he, we and he, we and he, me and he, we, I'm a writer. We over months mapped out a full time. timeline of Colonel Fitzwilliam's life from birth. Also, bearing in mind, he's the son of an earl, so working out like, you know, his financial situation, his family situation. And then when he signed up, what age he signed up, to which barracks, where he moved, we had a fictional regiment, which never gets named that he was in.

What was brilliant is, Dr. Zach White is such a brilliant nerd. That's his job. So he literally knows the formations of every battle in the Peninsular War, of where everyone was. So we were like, you know, I wanted, there's letters, obviously, from the battles in the peninsular war from Colonel Fitzwilliam. And I wanted to know where he was. I was like, where would he be going? I want him to talk about that and to understand where he would be. So that, we had, we drew a map.

And we were like, okay, so three days later, he'd have marched to there. And two days later, he'd have been at Sunsair. He'd have gone from headquarters on horseback. So we mapped all of that out so that he could talk about his life. And the reason I had to do that was because the first thing that Zach said, and Zach also was, like, consulting with other military historians while we were doing this, was that a colonel at 30 was pretty much not a thing. He was like in a – so the militia was a whole other thing.

The militia didn't fight. The militia was a home of ground force, which all adds to that feeling of Wickham being a frivolous uniform wearing a piece of ass. Whereas the military – I think she says that around the BDSM bit, actually. Whereas the army, you know, in the Navy, they were fighting this war so vehemently. It was raging and he would be fighting. And Jane Austen just put him at Rosings just freely at leisure for a few weeks.

Because Jane Austen didn't have a Zach and she hadn't done that research and her life didn't overlap in that way. Yeah, or if she chose to be like, well, yeah, the war's happening in real life, but in my version of my novels, it's not or something. Yeah. But I chose that the war is happening and it's happening alongside when she was writing. And so we made him 34 and I had to find reasons for him to be in the country. So for instance, when he's injured and has to come back. Yes, exactly. And that he would be at Rosings.

And it was really fun. The research was just so fun for people like us who love history and who love considering different things like that. like looking up where family seats were of earls in the north and what their history had been and where impoverished earls and recently created earldoms around that time. So they didn't have much inherited wealth. They might have done something and King George had just gone, have an earldom. But that not only didn't come with much, it came with a house, but it didn't come with money. And it might make them poorer because of the things they had to pay for an album.

Suddenly, yeah. So imagining all of that, and there were useful historical examples where that was the case. So Colonel Fitzwilliam was the hardest character to flesh out in terms of the fact of his life. Yeah. But did it make him feel very real to you once you had all that information for him? Yes. So much more. And it made it impossible to write him as just the genial, polite colonel that we know from Pride and Prejudice.

Because if he'd fought in the war as the war was, it would be mad for that not to be just a cover. Like he's still polite, still genial, but like there would be a lot going on. He would be grieving. He'd have lost friends and seen horrific things. Whereas in Pride and Prejudice, it's, no shade, Jane.

But he's like a shadow Darcy. Like she goes for a walk with him. He gives information that actually we needed Darcy to tell Elizabeth. And Darcy can't because that would make them too intimate. So Jane's using him as like a character we can trust, a noble man, who can say Wickham's actually proper, proper bad, mate, and I'm like, mates and I saw this as well. And he becomes this like, yeah, and a sort of alternative, Darcy, which is why

it's interesting they both flirt with her. But I think, yeah, what you've done, which again is so respectful to Jane, but really interesting, has been like, yeah, but who, but if Jane had more time, like, who is that? Like, what does that actually look like? The goal was, I just kept coming back to Pride and Prejudice going, he has to be back here by this date. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has to be okay, as it present as okay. I can't be like, oh, in Pride and Prejudice, he was completely messed up. Like, has to be behaving as he behaved in Pride and Prejudice. But just in the background, something happened to him.

How often did you go back to the original text while he was writing? I had it constantly by my side. Yeah. I had it. I had to buy, I've got obviously a lot of copies of Pride and Prejudice. How many? Five. I think I've got about five.

Yeah. How come? You bought me a version. Because you didn't know all the same. You bought me a nice. version then I got like my first version and then I bought like a penguin classic version and then I got a vintage edition yeah it like got lovely sprayed edges part of it is people buy them for you yeah yeah yeah you're a jane austin fan so they'd be like you liked it the last time you read it

but they somehow do do lots of different purposes so I've got I've got my gccc yeah yeah which is falling apart with all the highlights in I keep that for posterity it's quite interesting and then I've got Marcus my husband um for my first birthday when we're together are you married miss Paris Are you married, woman? I'm afraid I am. Congratulations and how much a thousand is here a year. Well, he earns enough to have purchased me quite a beautiful edition of the six novels from Hay.

Oh, I love you. So I've got them, but obviously that's so precious. Yeah, you don't want to open those. And then I've got a couple that other people have bought me that are beautiful editions of it. But then obviously I needed a rough, a rough. So I bought myself a nice paperback one that I can highlight, write in, fold the corners over.

and that was constantly by my side because there was so much to look up for the portion of the book that was during Pride and Prejudice it was so constantly going oh God so like they were there they were at the Netherfieldville that night

and then Wickham arrived two nights earlier and then where was Charlotte then like I think it's amazing you've done that Rachel because I think so many writers so many creatives once it's yours it's yours

this is what happens with the adaptations you go oh I'm telling my version of this story now which means that at point if you need to for your story to bulldoze over something that was there

and then for someone who remembers or it clangs you then go why and you haven't done that I don't think you can with Jane

because people know it like the Bible yeah but with Jane like if you especially that audience of people who love Jane Austen if you side step

on something if you claim a line or forget if you forget they will tell you lose a sibling yeah they will you know

they will come up and they will tell you and that would also affect the book because then that you know we have this

with Austentatius when we first started, the Jane community were like, are you laughing at her? And then when they saw it and they realised we weren't, they were like, welcome. But there is a big like, if you're taking the piss or you're like, oh well, Wickham's at this ball, I know he isn't normally, people would be really annoyed.

Like they really care. With Dr. Sam Patton, who's the character of a professor who we do in Ostentatious before... Introduces the show, basically. And you see the people like that, the J-Nites, the Austenites who are like watching it, You, we, all the character always, whoever's playing it, always does a, um, impression of knowing nothing about Jane. And they're like, oh, I see. You know nothing about Jane. They refer to like Pride and Prejudice and the shit ones or something like that. And then when we get like suggestions, you did it the other night as well. It's great because they think, oh, oh, yeah, we're just for this. And then do suggestions and you're like, ah, yes, this is the, um, sequel where we see Mr. Tilney. Yeah. Mark two. And they're like, oh, she knows about Mr. Tilney. And we're like, yeah, we know our shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's canon for that.

Like it's so, I think the book would struggle to have sold, is what I'm saying, if you had been flippant with the text. Yeah. Because the people who love Jane love her so deeply. Like, we've had people come after to shows. If you're referencing a actual Jane Austen book, like if we've got, I don't know, Mansfield Shark. Mansfield Park and Ride.

Mansplane Park, that's a good one. Mansfield Park, FC. Mansfield Park probably gets the most, like, parody titles, doesn't it? One of my favourites other day was Amazon Prime and Prejudice. Oh yeah. It's good, isn't it? I was happy that you don't get many persuasion. Enema for Emma.

I think one of the cleverest ones was everything Emma wears all at once. Yeah. Which that film, everything everywhere always at once that came out a couple years ago. Niche, but... Niche. They did it when the film came out, so we were like, oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. But yeah, if we do any references And if we, unless we make it super obvious, like this isn't Mr. Darcy, they will say stuff afterwards.

Mr. Darcy, of course, actually wasn't resident at that time. He was here. Like, they do like to come and comment. I've done events with a few people who've been writing about Jane Austen much longer than me. Yeah. And it's really funny because you've met a lot of them and you've warned me about some of them. And I'm not going to name names. But I've met like people who've been like, I think it was quite pointed, was talking about Hunsford,

parsonage, and you'll know who this was, and was like, of course, people get all the houses completely wrong. Huntsford would not have been a grand house. Pemberley would not, Pembley wasn't Chatsworth, and I've completely based Pembley on Chatsworth. And Pemberley wasn't Chatsworth. Because that's what it is in the 19-Divus. He wasn't a Duke. He was just a gentleman who made his fortune. It wouldn't have been as big as Chatsworth. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess, I guess People are passionate about what they're passionate about. But the Jane Wild, the Jane of Us, means a lot to people.

And I guess, so for us, the thing we care about about the characters is the psychology, the emotions, the life. And for other people, it's the houses and society, you know, that the side of the bit that perhaps is less exciting to us or less enticing about it. The book is doing really well. Yeah, thanks. Were you nervous about it coming out because of all this passion? Yeah, I was nervous about there being a backlash of like, what have you done to Jane? You've broken all her other novels by doing this.

No one could read Jane Austen ever again. And or it's just being ignored and just or just being like, oh, she's done that. Okay, that's up to you. Good for you. But I've been really gratified. Yeah, the reactions have been really nice. and have received it as I hoped it would be received, yeah.

Because you do love Jane Austen, that's the thing. And that's the same with Austin Tatis. Like, we do genuinely love the books. And you couldn't do a show for 15 years if you didn't. And you couldn't write a book like this unless you love her. And so if you pick something up and it's clear, someone's research, someone cares, someone loves the world that they were inspired by. Because you are taking characters that already exists and a world that already exists.

And that's, you know, what we're doing with Austentatius. It's like it's like 5% easier. when they walk in because they understand the world already. So we've already bought that by using her work. So we want to make clear, well, we respect the work very deeply. And that's what I think you've done with this book is like, you haven't just gone. Yeah, then they go scuba diving. So there's two questions I then have to ask about the future.

So this is just the first book for Mrs. Collins. There might be some more. I don't know. Exiting Mrs. Collins. I have no plans. I felt like there was something right at the very beginning. Mrs Collins does stand up? Oh no, because there's volume two and three.

Oh, I see. That's how Pride and Prejudice is set out, volume one, two. Well, then adaptation. Oh, I'd love that. It would offer something different. Yes. With the war angle and the sort of realities of life angle, it would be different to a lot of Austin adaptations.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you could actually show the Napoleonic War a bit. What I think is you could combine sharp in Austin, which surely is a goal-minded. That's bringing the men in. Quite a few dreams of mine. And the women, yeah. That's like the dad's up.

happy, the mums are happy, ITV Sunday night. And as viewers, like with readers, people want to revisit this world, they want to go back to these characters. There is this fascination and you have offered other angles and other dimensions to... I'd love it. Who would you cast as Mrs. Collins? I haven't got a Mrs. Collins. I can't think, because everyone's too beautiful. I looked at like young actresses in their 20s. And there's like none that you could convincingly describe as plain. You could dress down Amy Lou. even though she's so beautiful. I think she's too stunning.

She's too striking. I think she is. She is. But she's effervescent, so I think you could. She's a Lizzie. Yeah, because she's just so striking. Like, Mrs. Collins, Charlotte Lucas has to be someone that when you're in the room, you didn't notice she was there for about 10 minutes.

Yeah. Which is hard for an actor. I think you're right. You need someone. You've been there for one and you're like, oh, Charlotte's here. I guess it's hard to become a successful actor if no one notices. Exactly. I guess it's really sort of fighting against.

I've got my Colonel Fitzwilliam there. Who's that? Will. Pulter is who I would have. Oh, great. Right age. Yeah. Build. Yeah. Who do you want to play in it though? Should he? Come on. I'm not quite old enough, but I'd love to play Lady Lucas. Oh, you'd be a great Lady Lucas. I'd love to play Lady Lucas. Yeah. You'd be great. But how old is she? Well, I know, because I think she would have had her quite young. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's see. So Charlotte's 27. So she could be 47. So like, by the time it gets made, you're like, yeah. We'll be ready.

I felt it was interesting Also they were healthy back then She wasn't smoking and drinking or anything Yeah So she felt great Yeah And she was well looked after And then go out in the sun

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah I think that would be a really nice thing to play Because I felt It's interesting Like the bit that you're describing With Charlotte when she's 17

Like not being asked to dance And her realising that But actually I found myself Really Feeling Lady Lucas A lot of the way through And feeling like

what it was to have your daughter rejected and then to have your daughter marry a man like this when you know that your daughter is fiercely intelligent and funny and vibrant and like sensible and smart and all these things and to have her marry Mr Collins as a mother as a mother like I also love that because what we get is Lizzie and Jane's mum who's so desperate to get them married because for this other reason which is also love which is I want you to be safe I want to know you've got somewhere to live and that there's someone with money who's going to make sure you've got

food and heating and those kind of things. So it's wonderful to have a balance of those emotions, the parents' emotions would have been a spectrum. Yeah, I loved writing. Yeah, it's really nice. So yeah, that's who I'd like to play. On re-listing to Pride and Pride of this week,

I also picked up, because of having read this, how interesting Mrs. Bennett and Lady Lucas's relationship actually is. Because they're played as friends, often when you watch it, on adaptations, but Mrs. Bennett. They're quite snipey, aren't they? Mrs. Bennett is so rude about constantly. She's, and that bit when Lizzie comes back and she's like, oh, I suppose they just went on and on, didn't they, about having Longbourn,

that's the sort of people they are. Like, they just can't wait to get their claws in here. And then Lady Lucas is often called on when there's distress. It's like, oh, well, these are our local friends. But their friendship, I think, is also really fascinating. And when Lydia comes back from London with Wickham, like, one of the first things Mrs. Bennett wants to do is like, call on the Lucasus.

Oh, yes. Like, my 16-year-old daughter is married. Like, it's, yeah, it's very keeping up with the Joneses, I guess, isn't it? But I thought what you did with Lady Lucas, again, just fleshing out this character who in Pride and Prejudice is just seen as this poor woman that has to deal with Mrs. Bennett occasionally. It's nice to see, like you said, a different type of motherhood, because we don't particularly see that, especially in Pride and Prejudice, do we?

Yeah, I think the nice thing is she doesn't really think about Mrs. Bennett that much. Yeah, because I think Mrs. Bennett thinks about her a lot. I think Mrs. Bennett thinks about her. And awful lot. I just was listening to the bit, which I think, I'm still the power of Pride and Prejudice that when Lydia comes back and is utterly unrepentant

she's just so shocking and she takes Jane's place and she goes no Jane even though I'm the younger sister I'm married so you must go a place down now it's just like the gall of Lydia

and all of the just how good Pride and Prejudice is like I've read it a thousand times it's just so good and it gives us so much someone said I'm finding, you'll find this, like, that people say things to you about your own book that you never noticed. It's not so much about what I wrote

because I didn't do it intentionally, but it's also true of pride and prejudice. Lydia, I know that some people got married really, really young, but like, that she was 15. Yeah. She'd just turned 16 when she married them, yeah. And like, Lizzie, I think it says a lot about Lizzie that, like, Lizzie and the sisters are kind of not hugely protective of her when after she's married. Like as if after she's married, that's up to you, you made your bed and now you're annoying and you're taking my place, but that she's still so young and married to this awful predator of young women.

And like, there's a bit in my book where I talk about Wickham and Lydia leave and encourage. And twice it mentions... I love that bit where Lydia and Wickham turn up. Yeah. But, like, it mentions, you know, Lydia weeping and Lydia wailing as she's led away with her husband. And Lizzie is seemingly... Well, I never mention it, but, like, seemingly unbothered by, like,

Lydia going back again with this awful husband. But that's true in Pride and Prejudice as well. Like, I think it's interesting about Jane Austen's views that I think she guides the reader to be like, Lydia. That's your punishment. That's your punishment. Yeah, for being so silly and making some stupid names. Does you give them an example of someone who wasn't?

Yeah. It's your punishment of having no remorse. That's what Jane will not forgive. Like Darcy and Lizzie and lots of them will show, even Mr. Bennett has a moment where he's like, I have not behaved. correctly and Lydia when she comes back and the big thing that seals it is the aunt's letter to Elizabeth saying

she was unrepentant in London and she goes home and is unrepentant and even when she's leaving and Mrs. Bennett is like oh I'm going to miss you and she's like well I won't have time to write to you and it's it is played a bit like she's 16 but like I think Jane is very harsh on people who do not admit that they have done something wrong and that's where she sends Lydia like fuck you basically.

Yeah. Yeah. I've thought of a casting. Have you seen adolescence? Erin Doherty. She's 27 and she is. She'd be really good. She could do you plain, even though she's like perfect.

No, that's it. She gives a bit of plain, but a bit of beautiful, which is what you want. Yeah, that's perfect. Thank you. Put that on a pitch dot pitch. I think I'm an EP now. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, Rachel, thank you so much. Thank you. I feel like we haven't talked about Pride and Prejudice and your adaptation. I know. Oh, we didn't talk about it. Sarah did a play. So I don't really remember. It's just ages ago that I wrote an adaptation of Pride and Predigis, which is available to buy as a play script from Samuel French.

Yes. That's very exciting. I'm going to buy it. That's really exciting. And that's it. There's just so many ways to experience Pride and Prejudice. Yeah. So we'd always say, go and read Pride and Prejudice on Jane's birthday.

I heard, I'm not doing it, but I had someone who's got about 100 Jane Austen spin-offs in their library this week. And she said, one of her favorites. is, we all know about Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, but there's Pride and Prejudice, Darcy's a vampire. And she said, it's really good. I bet that is good. She said it's really good. Because that's why he's so aloof.

Yeah, and she said that's really faithful to Pride and Prejudice. Like, Lizzie, like, thinks back through the events of the last year. And she goes, oh, no, he was a vampire. He didn't want to dance because he didn't want to be near her neck. Yes. He tried to resist her. Yeah, and the family, like, he's worried about it for her sake. Yeah.

doesn't want to turn it to And that's why he found us so attractive after the long walk because she's all flushed. Yes. Very, very well done, Rachel Pallis. Yeah, thank you so much. You've never repeat guest.

Yes. Oh my God, I'm so honoured. Yeah, don't tell Andrew Hunter Murray. I won't tell Andrew Hunter Murray. It's going to be really great. Happy Christmas, everyone. Happy Christmas! Thank you for listening to the Weirdo's Book Club.

Carrie ad's wonderful Christy book, Lydia Marmalade and the Christmas Wish is available to buy in case someone got you a present and you didn't get their one and now you need to get them one this is a really good time to say it's Christmasy I've always had this

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