Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Middlemarch by George Eliot

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

This week's book guest is Middlemarch by George Eliot.In this episode we discuss soap operas, love stories, socialism, Nietzsche and Cariad getting angry.Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you!Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclubProduced by Naomi Parnell Recorded by Naomi Parnell and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Amy Gledhill here. And Harriet Kemsley. From the Single Ladies in Your Area podcast. And we've got some exciting news. We've sorted your Valentine's Day plans again, as we're doing a special live recording of the podcast on Valentine's Day. A.k.a. Saturday the 14th of February. Yes, we've got a lovely venue.

It's at the Underbelly Boulevard in Soho, London. And we're on late at 9.15pm. So if you have a terrible date booked in, you can go to that, and then join us after for a debrief. Oh, I mean, I'm excited. We had so much fun at the last Valentine's Day show. Yes, and we both absolutely overshared. Will we do it again?

You'll have to come along and find out. Okay, yes, yes, we will. So that's Saturday, 14th of February at Underbelly Boulevard, and you can get tickets at plosive.com. Sarah Pascoe. And I'm Carrie Adloid. And we're weird about books. We love to read.

We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we created the Weirdo's Book Club. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests and writer-guess to discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books, writing, reading, and just generally being a weirdo. You don't even need to have read the books to join in.

It will be a really interesting, wide-ranging conversation, and maybe you'll want to read the book afterwards. We will share all the upcoming books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram, Sarah and Carriads, Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. This week's book guest is Middlemarch. What's it about? Set in the fictional town of Middlemarch, it follows the different lives, marriages and political beliefs of the various inhabitants. And that's as quickly as I can sum up that book.

What qualifies it for the Weirdo's Book Club? Well, it's a humongous classic. Is it still readable? Well, that Carriad tell you. In this episode, we discuss. So poppres. Love stories. Socialism. Nietzsche.

And Carriad getting angry. We were discussing heated rivalry. Well, we're discussing that both of us haven't seen it. No, and also I'm not going to watch it. So I do not want to be titillated or aroused, either about hockey or men. I think those things combined. No interest. What you want is a 19th century novel.

Please. Sarah, we are talking today. We are talking. It's a big hitter. You're talking. I'm listening. I'm talking about Middle March. This is a new strand.

This is a new strand for us. Middle March. Middle March. Sorry. Just imagine the theme tune to our Middlemarts series. Oh yeah. Middle march, middle march. And who's that gremlin singing the song?

Here comes middle march. That's, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was, I think if it was going to be a theme tune, it'd be much more like someone's playing. It's a tin whistle. You don't want the highway. You don't want the low way.

I don't march through the middle. Pass through the arch. Had to middle march. There go. That's a hefty, yeah. It's a hefty book. Yes. And only one of us has read it recently.

Yes. One of us has forgotten every single detail that person is me. Absolutely fair enough. It's a whopper. You've got a physical copy right in front of us. But I want to ask you... Oh, I've got that copy. That's one I have at home that I haven't read.

I think it's yours then. No. You've still got it, have you? No, actually. I just check the front. I think it's yours because... It's my mum. In it is my working out how much I earned an owed when I live with your mum.

I think this is my mum. Well, then you can have it back. Because I was sat on their shelf for so many years, and I've always thinking I should read it. It doesn't say Lloyd anywhere. it, but I don't remember how a goddics. It's either Tom Golding's mom, because it's her favourite of a book, but it would make more

sense if it was rude. I think that is the Lloyd copy of Middlemarch. Okay, well, you've got it back. You do have a hard copy. I'll ask my mum to check. That's so funny. Just give it to her if she wants it or not. She's been hard on bloody want it. Oh my goodness. Wow.

So, look, let's say is a hefty tome. It's supposedly the greatest English novel ever written. I spent 20-25 reading it. Yeah. So tell me how you came to do that. Okay.

So at this point in your life. At this point in my life when we have this much reading. Yeah. You know this. So my son is five. I still have to, someone has to hold his hand to go to sleep.

He will not go to sleep. If you leave, don't write in with suggestions. I've tried a white noise machine, okay? It's me they're obsessed with. Oh, if you do the 10 minutes, come back, he just comes down. He's like, where'd you go?

I need a whole chance. So I, normally, obviously, I've got into quite bad habits scrolling on my phone. And then my New Year's Reserville last year was like, right, when I hold his hand and I'm sitting in the dark, I'm going to get the Kindle. And you know how I feel about a heavy book. So I was like, I'm going to get middle March and I'm just going to read a little bit every day. And I started in January and I finished

in December. A full 12 months. Yeah. Spent every day. We take it in turn. So I do it. It's every other night and some nights I'm a way. I'm gigging and stuff. You marched all your way to the middle. I marched to march to the middle. So, yeah. So you started it because it's a classic, very highly rated. It's too big to sort of go. It's a classic. It's 19th century. Obviously, I am pretty into the early 19th century, so I've known my Austin very well. But I don't, I don't, I feel like Nate 19th century, when I was at uni, seemed to me very

boring, very dull. There was a lot of descriptions of veils, glens. If you're Dickens, oh, a steam train. I did Dickens at school. There's a lot of, again, but a lot of very descriptive, the good writers were not sparse. Yeah. And so, and I feel slightly embarrassed because Middle March is published in 1871. So it's kind, and obviously, she's, you know, people will say in the same breath, Jane Austen, George Elliott, and I'd be slightly embarrassed because the only George Elliott I ever read was Silas Manor. Very strong feelings from Carriette or Silas Manor.

I mean, I think I think that's one of the first things I knew about you. To your name. And then, don't bring up Silas Manor. Don't. You were made to read it at school. I was made to read it at a level. By about, sorry if you're listening. But he was a bad teacher. I'd really, I'd really amazing this is the first time they've had that feedback, I'll be really shocked. The thing is I know he won't. I just feel bad because, oh, he just knew he wasn't good at, you knew you weren't good at that job.

As in that he wasn't coping, didn't have passion for English, couldn't read. What's the problem with the teacher? Okay, so the problem is the teacher, right, so I have, when I did A-Level English, we had quite a few different teachers doing different texts, and one of the teachers had more than one teacher? Yeah. Okay. Six from college?

No, six from school, bit. Maybe none of them wanted to teach you. No, so Mr. Brown. and people will know if you... He loved Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown's a greatest teacher I ever had. When he passed away, very sadly, his funeral was so packed with students

because he was the best English teacher. Like, not just English, best teacher I've ever had. He made me love books. People would hang around outside the classroom to hear him reading the go-between. Oh, wow. He was amazing.

He played guitar, took us a strap upon Avon, said... He'd be arrested now. He said, we were smoking. Don't worry about it, girls. Yeah. He was so cool. If you know where I'm from this,

you'll suddenly be like, oh my god, Gary went to school with me. He was amazing. And then this other teacher, to be fair, in comparison, was phoning it in. And he did Silas Marna with us. So it was like, are you joking me? So do you think he did it as an act of, to hurt you? Do you think he was like, what?

No, it was on the syllabus. We had to do it, yeah. The government hurt us, yeah. The government hurt us. The government heard of him. It's after our time, obviously. Yeah. But, I mean, it is the government to blame for Silas Manor.

It's a lot. But I now feel bad. Anyway, bad to mood and much. Because that made me anti-Georgia. earlier because I was like, oh, she's just a boring Victorian novelist who overdescribes everything. And he's very moral because Silas Martin, if you haven't read it, it's like, oh, there's just lots of stuff about like, her having golden hair and then the man has gold. Do you see a gold? You shouldn't covered gold.

He covered it her hair. There's lots of that kind of morality that I think. And that was your voice inside your head reading it. Not me, the teacher. That's how he read it and it wasn't okay. Anyway, people always said to me, have you not read middle much? A bit surprised, so I was a bit embarrassed that I hadn't read it. Yes.

And then should I tell you another reason I read it? I'd love to. Someone I know, you'll understand this. Someone I know who's not a reader started reading it. What? On your patch? On my patch. Someone you know.

So then I was in a group of people I'm normally the person someone might discuss books with. Not always because sometimes they don't. We call her the librarian behind her back. So then somebody said, I'm reading Middle March. And I was like, fucking how. If he's fucking reading Middlemarch, I better fucking read. And you hid it out of his hands. Get this?

Halfway through the year, I said to him, oh, guess what? I'm giving it a good. I was so enraged by your reading choice that now I'm reading it. And he went, oh, yeah, I never sort of stopped reading it. And I thought, oh my God, I went on a vengeance read. You never fucking read it. That sums me up. I still don't know if you've enjoyed this book.

Oh, interesting. Because I didn't ask you on purpose. Yes. And so I'm not going to ask you towards the end, actually. So what I'm going to ask you is your first feelings. I reread the first 15 to 30 pages of Middle March last night yesterday. and to see how I felt, and if I would continue with it. Yeah, trigger the storylines.

How did you feel reading the first, you know, when you started it? Okay, so the reason why I want to talk about on the pod is to say it's a big hefty tone, everyone's heard of it, it's one that you think, oh God, I don't have time to read that. So I wanted to say you can, perhaps if we do something very small every day. Yeah. I started it, got it on Kindle, oh my God, no, come on, the beginning. It's very difficult to get into. I think there's a point where you'd go, this isn't for me.

Yeah. Some of the sentences, and I'd love to read one or two. They are a page long. Well, they don't make sense. What is she talking about? What is she talking about, man? I would say there's a reason that we just had

the biggest celebration of Jane Austen last year, because Jane is so much more accessible than George Elliott. It's not an easy read. I'm going to find you a lovely sentence. There's some amazing sentences in there. But they don't make sense. I think people would. argue with you about that.

So I've just found quite a good sentence. Yeah, see? There was occasionally a little fierceness in his demeanour, but it was directed chiefly against false opinion of which there is so much to correct in the world that a man of some reading and experience necessarily has his patience tried. That is a beautiful way of saying the world's full of idiots. When it's like that, you go, oh, you can do it.

And then sometimes... It's definitely hard to get into. It's definitely not an easy read. I had to, like, train my brain every time I was picking up the Kindle to go back to the 1870. I can see why people don't like casually pick it up in the way that you word pride and prejudice. But I would say it's worth it if you want the short answer. I'm going to read you a sentence.

Okay. This is just one sentence. Sure. I've spent a year with her. I'm with. Semi-colons. Such reasons would have been enough to account for plain dress quite apart from religious feeling. But in Miss Brooks case, religion alone would have determined it.

And Celia mildly acquiesced in all her sister's sentiments, only infusing them with that common sense, which is able to accept momentous doctrines without any eccentric agitation. I read that sentence, which is second page, and I thought, what? You've got to get your head in the game. You've got to get you. Like, she's, you can't, you can't paddle.

She acquiesced with all of her sister's sentiments, yeah, okay, so sister's religion, only infusing them with that common sense, which is able to accept momentous doctrines without any eccentric agitation. There's three then, I've lost. I'm so lost by the end of the sentence. If you've read more about Miss Brooke and Celia,

that is easier. Like now I know those characters. If you've got more information. Yeah, but to start with, yeah. Eccentric agitation. What is that? Well, it's like her being, it's the way that Miss Brooke dresses. It's the way that Dorotheo dresses.

She is able to accept momentous doctrines without any eccentric agitation. She doesn't get eccentricly agitated by her sister's momentous doctrines because she has common sense. I'm doing this backwards now. Yeah, she works backwards. I think it's very Victorian. But you have to kind of like swim in it. This is the thing with Middle March. You have to like, you're not going to get everything.

sentence. No. You have to just like get deep swimming. Which is great because the next thing we're going to do with this next January is Ulysses, James Joyce. If you want to swim in some sentences, get your goggles on. Well, you read Ulysses and you can tell me all about it. I'm reading it this year so that we can do this. But I have to say the characters instantly, they're looking at the mother's jewelry.

We've been set up. One of them is a bit like this. One of them's a bit like this. Looking at the mother's jewelry. One of them behaves in a way the other one is not expecting. Yep. You're in. It's a story. Yeah. And I would say you'd be like Hilary Mantel or Iris Murdoch. The first 20 pages are not your friends.

Like you have to plough past the first 20 pages. You need to really get 60-70. Our brains sort of, I say our brains, maybe this isn't all human beings, but our base, happy place is sort of dumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you pick up a good writer, your brain is stretched. Your brain has to warm up a bit. Yeah, yeah. To be, and sometimes that can feel uncomfortable. and then you're so glad you did.

And maybe this helped. So my son doesn't have white noise. He has a Yoto. If Yoto want to get in touch, I will do. I love Yoto. Oh, they did get in touch. I meant to tell you. They love me?

Anyway, there's a Yoto nighttime radio and it plays like sort of just like relaxing music that sounds almost kind of old fashioned. So I was listening to kind of piano music as I was reading this. And I think that also helped because it was like, it felt very like I was reading in a drawing room with like trinkily.

That's lovely. So reading a little bit every day, did you ever feel that it was difficult to keep grasp with the story? One of the criticisms of the book is lots of characters. So this is the other thing I want to say about Middle March.

If you feel like 2020 and 60 year, you're going to attempt it. And this is, I feel so passionate about this, right? People would say, oh my God, I'm not reading that book. But then they would be like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to do the Sopranos.

I have never seen that. I'm going to go back to see the wire. Or the wire. Yeah. It is the same thing. It is a giant box set before box sets existed. Okay.

It is a long-form project. You just have to accept that occasionally an episode starts and you're like, who? Yeah. Who's fucking Kazabon? I forgot like, or when did he marry her? Oh, is Balstrowd good?

And you have to just like ride the wave and be like, in this episode, I'm not 100% sure who everyone is. But that, the reason I loved Middlemarch is once you're like halfway through and things happening, like when you've watched a box set for like a year, you're like,

the slow build on. some of these stories and the romances. Like, you cannot believe how much you're invested in some of the romance. Because unlike Jane Austen where it's like, okay, they're going to get together, you're like, I don't think they're going to get, they don't seem to, there's absolutely no hint of this at all. Oh, hang on a minute. Oh, that's an interesting conversation in Rome.

Well, he's decided she never wants to speak to her again, and he's a very moral man, and he's actually moved away. So he's, I don't need to worry about again. Whoa, that character's back. But you're like 300 pages before they might see each other again. So again, it's like just getting your brain in a place of like they're not going to do what you expect them to do. And it's like she's written this like you live in Middle March. Yes.

So she's written like if you lived in a town or like we would talk about comedians. There's comedians we talk about that we haven't seen for 10 years. People are like, do you remember Jenny Stand Up? Jenny Standup. Jenny Standup. Well, she, Jenny Sand Up bought house in Bath. And she's painted the whole thing orange and we'd be like, wow, that's unbelievable. But it doesn't matter we haven't seen it for 10 years.

And that's the same as this book. It's discussing people in the middle of England. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts about Middle March so that we didn't do the same thing. And they really do like to say really boring things. Like, it's called Middlemarch, because it's said in the middle of England. In March? No, March is about the March of Progress.

And George Elliott herself lived in Coventry, so we can assume it's someone like Coventry. You're like, guys, why are you telling me? It's called the Sopranos. So it's like, that's what I mean. You have to accept. It's not a big plot line. It's not like people are going to do it.

It's like living in a town for a year. So I remember very little about reading this. As soon as I started it, I thought, well, I don't remember the main characters. So I remember nothing. There aren't main characters. This is the thing. There's four big plotlines. I remember saying at the time, it's like it happened to you in real time because of the slowness of it.

Yes, exactly. Things happen. And that's one thing, one other podcast I was listening to. It was like, she's a complete realist. And that's quite nice. So people behave like humans do. don't behave like book characters do. Yeah.

So they don't do exactly what you expect into. Well, that is genius if that's what she's doing. Do you think, Georgia, oh, it's a genius now? After reading this, yes, I do. Wow. Yeah, 100%. Is any part of you tempted to go back to Silas Marna? Yeah.

It is, because I think I was probably an idiot. And I just didn't appreciate what she was doing. I'm not an idiot. I don't think school children should be... No, exactly. I didn't understand. Given books that you need to be really... Well, you need a good teacher.

To read them. This is my point. Mr. Brown, the greatest teacher ever live, read us L. L.P. Hartley's Go Between, which is a really difficult book, which I would love us to talk about. But he made that book come alive. And we just needed help with Silas Mana. And what I didn't know about George Elliott, which I now know, is that she was this radically unconventional woman. She lost her face. She lived with a married man for like 40 years. And she's so different to Austin. It's

embarrassing that they're shoved together, but they are shoved together. And it's annoying because there are so few women that people know from a certain period. Not even like, I'm not even saying that women writers. I mean, that women writers, I mean, that women are. know and that are read. So they are a genre. Yeah, she becomes a Victorian novel, which is like, yeah. And this book, I do think you have to be the right age to read it. And what is that age 43?

Yeah, I think like, I would say like late 30s, 40s because she's writing, it's a bit like reading, if you read Persuasion when you were 19, it's like, you're not going to get the fucking loss, the sense of loss that Anne Elliott has about, like she thinks her life is over. But when you read that as a 40-year-old, you're like, fucking out, Ann Elliott, I hear you. And in this book, so the other thing we say, it's published in 1871, but it's all about 40 years earlier. You know, like we, so I read another, I listened to another problem. How old was George Elliott when she wrote it?

Can someone do the math? So she was born exactly the same day in year as Queen Victoria. Big day. Big day. In 1819. So she's right at the end of Jane Austen time. So she's 50. That's what I mean is.

So she's writing about a time that she lived through as a 10-year-old. So she'd live through it. Yeah. And there's a podcast by David Runtzman, which is interesting, if you've read Middle March, but he's talking about the fact that I guess it's a bit like someone writing about the early 80s now. Right. And so they might write about the birth of technology or they might write about the AIDS crisis or they might write about... Pristana.

And it's like your readers remember it. So readers of a certain age, remember this time. It's not so far away that it's like, oh, we all have a weird romanticised view of the trenches. It's like, no, no, it's touchable. I guess, like, you know, the fact that rivals was so successful as a television show, like, and lots of people like, oh my God. When was that set? That's 80s, Ginny Cooper.

So, Middle March is set. When it's published, it's 40 years, and it's before it end. The book ends in 1832 before the Reform Act has been passed, which is this huge, huge political act that changes a lot of things. And it's about the rise of the middle classes, like trains in coming, industrialized. coming and the loss of faith that is coming. Definitely.

This is a book you have to know a bit more about things. Always to even be interested in those things. Yes, exactly. But I have to say, having read it, I didn't do any research pre-reading it. There was no time. It wasn't time. But this is what I think,

why she's so fucking good, right? I read this book and you can just enjoy this. Like, it's just good characters. And that should be the first test. Yeah, and it annoys, this is what I want to say. It annoys me that it's treated as a tone. that only academics can look at because it's a fucking great soap opera.

And it feels like it's gate heat heat. So like the Austin thing, and I think it's much more widely acknowledged now. Yes, this person lived in the olden days and is respected and they're in the canon, but you should be reading it and enjoying it for pleasure's sake rather than duty. You can.

You can read it without having to know, oh, that the reform act was happening. They do discuss the format. Some bits. There's definitely some bits that you're like. Thomas Hardy would be in a same kind of thing over. Yeah, I think so. test of the Derbavilles because they want to read a novel, right?

Yeah, and I've definitely, when I first picked up Hardy, I didn't, again, I had to do it at school when I hated at Mayo Castabridge, and then I picked up another one and was like, oh, this is actually quite fun. Dude the obscure or something. Not fun. They're all sad. They're all sad. It's a terrible word, but very readable. So there's four main storylines, again, there's no spoiler, but the main one, the one that you've started, lots of people are. And her sister Celia? Celia, and Dorothea Bacy marries.

Does she? She marries this old man. Oh, the old man. Called Kazabom. Yeah, that dinner? She likes the old man. Yeah, who everybody basically says, he's not actually old, he's in his 40s.

Yeah, they've got grey hair. And the other guy's got a red face. He's a dried up old man. Everyone says, don't marry this man. She likes his manner. This again, what an interesting character? She basically, if she was alive now, she'd be an entrepreneur. She can't do that.

So she meets this man who's working on a great tone, this amazing religious kind of piece. It's going to change how we view religion, right? And she thinks, I can help him. I'll do the research. I like, she studies, she's educated. She's like, I'll do all the research for him. It's a noble cause that I will be able to help this man be a great academic.

She marries him. They go on honeymoon in Rome. There's a whole Rome section. Lovely stuff. She meets his like second cousin, who's hot and younger. And he's super weird about, like, he's like, why do you want to meet Will Ladder's lot? And then, but she's so noble that she's like, not flirty.

Yeah. She's like, absolutely no way. And then Will makes one comment. I think it's Will. or someone else space is like, yeah, but he doesn't, Casabon doesn't speak German. And at that time, which is something she did, she, George Elliott, translated German and she translated this famous religious book that basically proved that a lot of Christianity was historical

and had been changed out of context to make a way of life rather than like, we didn't have the proof. They believed before that, oh, yes, no, this directly from God. And there was this, it was coming out of Germany. And it would be huge if you thought it was from God's mouth, literal fact. And then you got a human beings... And you realise human beings created the Bible and they got read of some books and they chose...

Who was the German? Who's... Luce? No, no, not... I know who you have. It's just like another... Yeah. Not someone I hadn't had like a random German who's writing at that time. So basically, someone says to her,

oh, your husband can't read German. So like, this project, he's been working on his entire life, which you've married him to dedicate him. It's bullshit. So he's staring at these pages and not understanding the squiggles. It's like someone with a Nokia and someone going, have you seen an iPhone? Yeah.

I'm like, no, I don't need to. I've got a knocking. You're like, you know that Apple have done this? No, no, I'm going to make a screen. Or it's like a guy saying, yeah, I'll definitely call you. And then you see he's got all of those Fisher Price's toys with the little ring, ring, wing, wing. It's like, that's like, oh, I fucked myself. Yeah. So then she's in this marriage.

So there's stuff like that. That's just one of the plot lines, which is like, so you don't need to know about the format to appreciate this young woman who, like, again, Celia's basically a normal girl, her sister. And this is like, why are you marrying this guy? And she's like, no, I'm going to do something. It's interesting because the very first things, I am going to talk a lot about the first 15 pages of midwarch. One of the interesting things that she does as a genius level writer

is she tells you this detail of how much she loves riding horses when she's about to give it up. She's just waiting for the right moment to give it up because that's what you do with things you enjoy. It's a religious person is you give them up. So letting us know that, then showing us that, you know, their mother's dead, she's got these jewels. They haven't looked at them.

Yeah, and she won't choose one. these ornaments, why would she? We've already been told these things about this woman who is built to suffer, who expects to deny herself pleasure, and then you do something huge to have her marrying the wrong man. But what George Eliot does, the genius of George Eliot is in a normal book, she would marry the wrong man and then, like, I don't know, she has an affair, or she would, like, George Elliot makes her sit with that decision for a whole book. Can you imagine?

She has to sit with that decision. Yeah. And she doesn't, like, there's a scene where, with Will Ladysol. So in Bridget Jones, she's still with Hugh Grant, and he keeps cheating on all over the place. Yeah, he's still cheating her. She's had two kids. She's just like, you know, that's the Bridget Jones,

but like she makes her sit with that decision. And just like reality, people don't say to her, well, her sister occasionally says you shouldn't marry him, but everyone else is like, oh, yeah, your husband. Which is like real life, people don't go, why did you do that? You should have known. Because the reason is just that he can't speak German.

Also in his defense. No, he is also a terrible, horrible man. This isn't really a spoiler. He dies. Okay. And in the Will, he says, this is a horrible man here is because he's not a nice man.

Don't ever look at my cousin. You will lose all your money if you marry Will. Oh, he knows. But she... They always know. But she isn't... She's had... She would never do that.

That's what's so awful. She's like, Noble devoted to the end. She's like, that was never my plan. And then he sneaks it in there, basically, be miserable for the rest of your life. But you also have a scene with him where he's like,

maybe I shouldn't really, this isn't very nice thing. But I actually can't stop who I am and that's who I am. So it does this different thing to a lot of novels where you're expecting it to do one thing

and she just lets the characters really go, I don't know, it just reminded me of a soap opera like a really good soap opera. It feels really like what is actual human nature and what humans in stories do?

You know how men in stories run through airports to declare their feelings. You know, don't protect themselves emotionally. Just let me be vulnerable and tell you how I feel. I'm going to risk it all for you. And then you're watching it going, who? Who?

Who does that? Whereas what you're describing, who sucks it up and is miserable, everyone? Yeah. And it's... I'm happy in my marriage, I should say. There's like four big storylines. That's just one of them. And there's another miserable marriage.

And there's a happy marriage. And then there's this sort of political storyline. What I'm trying to say very badly... When you went from one set of characters to the next set of characters, was that hard? Because quite often you missed the ones you're with. Yes, but again, this is what I want to, I want to de-platform.

That's not the right word. I want to, like, demystify in a bunch. Do you know what I did? I read about a third of it. I had a bit of a break, picked it up. I thought, what the fuck is going on? What the fuck is going on? I'm just trying to get to sleep, mummy.

Who is Balstrode? Did he, what happened to raffles? Did he murder him? And I thought, I'm just going to Google it. I googled. And because it's such as academic text, You can, there's like chapter explainers. So I made sure not to read ahead.

And somebody on Instagram posted that they were trying to read it this year. And I messaged them and said, this is my tip. So I went back and I was like, oh, there was like chapters one to three. And it went through in this one, Balstrow has a meeting. I think I'm saying, oh, Kazabon did this. Cadwallis said this. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. So again, like, don't feel like because it's the greatest novel in English language

that written. It is approachable. You'd have to approach it without thinking you're going to get it all the time. in the same way that if you watch The Wire, there's loads of bits where you're like... Wire is a great example because they'll say there's lots of characters and you get confused and they also say it takes a few episodes

to get into it. And with TV, we're all very comfortable with that idea. I remember the first time I watched Succession. And the first episode, I was like, I don't... What? Who? What is this? They're quite mean people. Is he mean? And I'm not quite sure who that man is. And what's... Like, I've seen him in something else.

What's he in this as well? Is he Scottish? He's English. So yeah, but I think with books, It's my point where books we're like, oh, no, television's one thing, but books, like, you need to be clever to read middle much, or you need to have an industry. And I'm like, I read it and I was like, there's so much hysteria around this book or pomposity around this book.

And so much like, it's actually about the perform act and cholera. It's really interesting. And actually, no, I haven't heard anyone on all these podcasts I've been listening to, just go, do what, it's a fucking soap proper and it's fucking great. And I can't, you know, and she released it in, it was too long to do the three-volume usual release. Oh, yeah. So I was going to ask you.

So it wasn't like Dickens where she published it in small chunks. She did. She did in magazines. So they used to release books in three volume novels, but as she was writing, she was like, shit, it's too long. And her editor or her husband who was not her husband, someone talked them in to releasing it in two volume novels the same way that Victor Hugo had done,

named Miserables. And that caused some trouble at the time because some readers were reading going, well, he's going to end up with her. And then they were like, what? Why haven't you done? Yeah. And she was criticised for that.

criticized for like, but you didn't do the thing we thought you were going to do. And it was like, yeah, because she was like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing that. So again, she didn't release it like that. Do you think she went non-traditional because she had a non-traditional life? Like someone who made non-traditional choices might have wanted to give a wider scope for a human story. I don't know. I don't know enough about her and I haven't read enough. And someone, on another one I was listening to, they were saying she had huge success with like

her first three books like Adam Bede. If that's right, I might be remembering it. Silas Marna and another one. And then she released this one that was a flop. This big one that was like a historical novel set in Florence in the 15th century. Basically everyone was like, and she was kind of a bit not cool anymore. And then she decided to do Middlemarch. And it was two books she was working on, the Dorothea story and this, I think, the Bolstraud story. And then she was like, oh, what would happen if I make this into like, yeah, like a life in a town?

So, yeah, I don't know. She did. She well, she will see. Was her background well. She comes from running. No, she definitely has an unusual background. Not like wealthy, wealthy, but like, what I read today, basically her dad thought that she was so unattractive,

that it was worth educating her. Thanks, Dad. Honestly, thanks. I'm putting it like that as well, Dad. I was like, oh, my God. I know. And also, look at the currency of being a woman and how little it's changed.

But also, in a way, but they did her a favour. No, absolutely did her a favour. Absolutely did her a favour. but you know there's this opposite sad story of oh she's fine don't bother educating this one and all of that I just just um but yeah the only currency for women was their looks so you kept doing a special effort

obviously her real name is Marianne Evans or Marianne Evans and yeah she was educated unusually for a girl and then she sent her way to school and then her mum dies at 16 and then her dad I think was looking after an estate kind of does his job as an estate manager which is one of the characters

in the book. Can't remember though because it's too. Is it the guy who keeps turning up on their Argos? Man, you're so... What is wrong with you? God. Go and do some maths. I don't want to look at you anymore.

But the woman, one of the houses that he looked after had an amazing library and they let her use the library. And so she kind of taught herself Greek and like red Latin. So she obviously was extremely naturally intelligent. And then she lives with this guy, George Henry Lewis,

as her conjugal partner from 1854, to 1878, she called him a husband. He was still married to his first wife and supporting their children. And her family, like, ostracized her and wouldn't talk to her. And then he dies. And then she marries this, like, long-time friend who's, like, 20 years younger than her.

Yeah, I know. And then her family starts speaking to her, like, oh, congratulations, you're married because it's such a, like, scandal. That is an awkward wedding. It's awkward. I had death. Yeah.

But weird, right? Because that's like Victorian England. It is weird, but apart from love, love is love and the human emotions haven't changed. But to be living so publicly like that, you know, there's hundreds of books written about people not staying in loveless marriages. 54, she published this in 57. No, this is 71 she promises. She lived with him from 54 to 78.

She's already writing, maybe she's already living such an extraordinary life. Yeah, and she was successful in her time and people did say she's amazing. So George Elliott chose to write under a male pseudonym. Yes, I don't know enough about that, I'm afraid. but she will stay George, I mean, people did know it was her. It's a cool name. It's a good name, but I don't know. I don't know enough about why she did that or when she was found out.

Because of course, Jane Austen did this, well, not a man-zine. And the Bronte's also have male pseudonyms. Maybe it was after she was successful with the first book, she was like, actually, guys. Yeah. Can I tell you one thing you will like? I think it would be interesting. I've liked all of this, actually. Eating it all up. Guess who hated it. Okay, I'm going to like this.

Yeah, I think you're going to like this. Jeremy Clarkson. Nietzsche hated it. Nietzsche hated it. I thought it's that interesting. I can't imagine him snuggling down for a read. I can't imagine him reading any fiction. My brain can't do that.

Was it the bit where someone can't speak German? It was like the audacity. He wrote about it in his journals called her the little English woman writing her little English prose. And Bacy said that because English people were losing, have lost their God. They're now clinging to their pathetic English morality. Little George Elliott, the little female. that she was reinventing morality because she'd lost her God. Isn't Nietzsche, sorry, is this you?

Didn't you say God was dead? Well, I think he kind of was annoyed that she was sort of talking about that because she has a lot of vicars and reverence in this book who are not good at their jobs who clearly aren't religious. And that's what one of the podcasts was listening to, the David Ronson was saying, this is a time where this information starts coming out. You get Darwin, you get this obviously religious text being trapped,

people start realizing, oh Christianity is not literal and this is happening mainly in Germany so that's where it's coming from and it's coming to England and she lost her faith she lost her faith and is writing about characters that are you know there's a vicar that who gambles and drinks but is a good man

yeah so Nietzsche would have found that very conflicting but also maybe he didn't read all of it maybe he was just surrounded by people who loved it and it's that will self thing about Sally Rooney who's going everyone's reading someone else when they should be reading me I like your defence of Nietzsche I'm the only genius. I'm not defending him actually. I'm sort of going, I can't imagine him reading all 900 pages of it.

I think they did in those days. What else they're doing? I see, yeah. Come on, there's nothing else to do. So it's a hate read. It's a long hate read. Yeah, I think. And again, shows she must have been so popular that maybe he felt a woman. This was his divinci coat. Yeah, this is but like a woman is doing this, the kind of thing that I'm saying this actually. And she's put it in a novel. Yeah. The little woman. Yeah, little George Elliott, he called her, the little female. It was really awful quote. It was really like...

And again, I'd never heard a Nietzsche quote like that. I was like, wow. Didn't know he was like, again, like, why so bothered? Yeah. Why is he bothered Nietzsche? Writing in your diary. Yeah, right in your diary. But Marianne.

Oh, sorry, Baba. She's actually so unattractive that you don't need to worry about it. Mehta. But yeah, I thought you'd like that fact. I do like that fact. There was a couple of quotes. Look, this is a great quote. The troublesome ones in a family are usually either the wits or the idiots.

Come on. Yeah. That's fucking great. That's really good. That's fucking great. It's really good. There's a, like a dig, not a dig at Austin, but like cross-reference that she does, because she says, this is George Elliott, she says, what do we live for if it is not to make

life less difficult to each other? I cannot be indifferent to the troubles of a man who advised me in my trouble and intended to me in my illness. It's sort of like the narrator. But what do we live for is the exact Jane Austen quote, but for would make sport of our neighbours. So I thought that was a little, I was like, oh, George, sassy. If youth is the season of hope, it is often so only in the sense that our elders are hopeful about us. For no age is so apt as youth to think its emotions, partings and resolves are the last of their kind. Each crisis seems final simply because it is new. This reminded me if you're what you said at the Hay Festival that went viral. We are told that the oldest

inhabitants in Peru do not cease to be agitated by the earthquakes, but they probably see beyond each shock and reflect that there are plenty more to come. That really reminded me what you said of like when you're youthful. It's just the first time these things have happened. to you. So you think they're so significant. And older people are hopeful for you because they want you to have a different experience. It's reminded me of something that's the exact inverse, which is a Sean Walsh routine, but someone else told me, which I think is so funny. And it's about how, you know, when one side of the road is completely gridlocked in a traffic jam. Yeah. And the other side are just driving really freely. They're going really fast. So it's like, that's your 30s. The one that you're driving

really fast. And you're looking at all the people. people in the traffic jam being like, ah, look at them, one of those sad old bastards. Look at those sad people in the traffic jam, all just sitting there. But the people who are gridlocked, people in their 40s, they're watching those people rushing knowing that they're about to go into the... I know what's about to happen to you. That is so good. Because you've passed the traffic jam, you know that's what they're driving into.

That is so good. Isn't that such a perfect analogy? Because I have some friends who are not 40 yet and they are so smug about it. As if it's not going to happen to them. Yeah. Like there's a lot of like, oh, I'm 30. And you're like, okay, congratulations. I was 38 once.

Like what? Or someone said the other day, there was a poster for Boyzone. You know who you are. And they went, she said, oh, do you remember Boysone? Huh? They asked me if I remembered Boyzone. I was like, I'm not 80. I was like, yeah, I remember Boyzone.

It's like, oh, I just thought they'd be like after your time. I was like, after. They're in their 30s and they're very pleased about being in their 30s. And I was like, but yes, I do remember Boyson. Boyzone. I think it's because the ageing process is so boring. Yeah. There is, I definitely remember other people talking about age and thinking it's so boring.

And then it just becomes a lot more something you're processing, so you talk about it. And I do think we're like, you have to acknowledge everyone's the smug driver going fast. Yeah, we've all been there. We've all been the smug driver going fast. Yeah, we've all been like, why it happened to me? I won't feel like that. But it's just when. That's why we're side-eyeing you as you drive quickly fast.

It's like, when you remember when you're, when you hit 30 and you have to talk to a 21-year-old and you're like, fucking, oh. was I this bad? Like, because just some, you know, like the belief that you're the first person to have had a thought. It's like, you're not. I just think, like, yeah, we've all thought. Yeah.

Makes me realise actually how many tolerant adults I've been surrounded by. I've been very lucky with aunts and uncles that they all just allowed, no one said. I do think you're very clever though. I guess I am really clever. I do. I think you're clever.

Well, that's very kind. But then maybe it's... You're the one who's read Middle March recently. Well, I have actually finished Middle March. I don't know. I don't remember Boys' Own, but I have finished Middlemarch. Yeah. I just think, look, if you're in your 30s to shut up about it,

apart, like, unless you're talking to someone who's in their 30s. Do I mean, people in their 50s must feel like that about us, being like, oh, we're full, like, it's the same. We just don't go on about it. I heard Jimmy Carr on a podcast the other day, Louis Theroux, saying, like, there will come a point where you would give absolutely every pound of your money to have your body that you have today.

Oh, yeah, yeah. In 20 years' time, you would give everything all of your possessions. And for Jimmy, that must be a lot. I always think that about it. To be your fitness, your wellness, your strength, your energy today. Yeah, well, then when women say, oh my God, you could like, why did I hate myself on 20? I'm like, why did you hate yourself at 40? Yeah, exactly.

A 60, you're going to be like, what the hell was wrong with me? And then at 80. I was such a hotty when I was 60. Yes. All right. Any more middle march questions. Okay. Yes, please.

Yeah, go on. What's the best best? bit. It's the best bit of middlemarch. The best bit for me and it's a slight spoiler but it is one of the romance bits. Again, you can only get this in 19th century novel. There's a romance. Is it getting together? But they don't, they don't.

She just fucks, you cannot believe how much she'll extend this to. Yeah. Like they don't, they're in the room, they're not even, they don't even say like, I love you. It's not even a Jane Austen like, I must ardently tell you. It makes Jane Austen are like porn. Like literally, they

put their hat down and say, I'm glad you can see I've came to see you this morning. And then someone's like, oh, you need to go to the farm. And they go, well, I must go. And then everyone knows, oh, God. And then she'll just watch him leaving. And you're like, fucking hell. So he said it's the best bit.

Is that because you are so invested. I shouted. I said, come on, George. But would you have been satisfied with something else? Anything else? Aren't you satisfied really that there was... No, I am. And also, like, you know, other stuff happens towards the end.

but like I couldn't believe the long game she was playing. And then I felt, God, you know what? Congratulations, George Elliott, because I cannot believe that you are playing. And she gives you there in a monologue sometimes. So you know how they feel. You know they love each other. But like, and also what's worse?

It's not like, oh, she's got a boyfriend. Duty and nobleness and religion is keeping them apart. That is annoying. You want to be like, it doesn't matter. You love them. Can you love someone you've never kissed? You can long for them. They definitely long for each other.

But also it's that thing of... But you believe it as love. Yeah, because also it's like in that day and they would have got married. And then what if you kissed them and they're a bad kisser? Which it probably works. They've kissed enough people. No, there's a good amount. They're well suited.

Although, again, I had a lot of, from listening to this other stuff, but people slagging off Will Ladisloh. Cut up me. I think Will's great. But apparently also... A cousin? Yeah, a lot of female academics. So like, he's like a school girl's idea of a great man. I was like, well, sign me up to that school.

Yeah. I think he's great. Yeah. He's a bit... He's charming. He's charming. I liked him. Yeah.

I liked him. That was my... That was what I liked. And then also there's not just the romance. There's some other bits which are... The book it reminded me of most was Anna Karenina. Right. In terms of...

I love lots of characters. Yeah. Lots of characters, big reading. There's a lot of bit about farming that you could skip. Do you remember the wheat section? Yeah. There's a long section about wheat. Yeah.

And I remember reading it. And I dutifully read that and then thought, I didn't need to read that. the wheat bit. And I would say the same in middle March. Occasionally there's a bit of like men in a village hall discussing the reformat. You get here, it's all right. You don't have to get your head around it. It's just the men talking. So in terms of the adaptations, you've never seen one yet. I've never seen one. You're going to. I think I avoided it because I hadn't read it.

This is the thing. It will be interesting now for you having read it so recently to go, what have they decided to keep in and what have they dropped? Yeah, because there's a lot like, there's a lot of good character stuff that I'm sure would make a great, like, TV adaptation. Are they're funny bits? No, she's not funny. It's not really, no. Although some people say she's witty, I would argue, where's your line on wit? Do you know what I mean?

That means repartee, doesn't it? It doesn't mean makes you actually live. There's a lot of bits where the narrator says some stuff that's very like, that is like, like what I read it to you, where it's like, uh-huh, ha-huh. Yes. But no, compared to Austin and Austin's characters, I would say Austin is much, it's more funny and lightweight. but it's not again, it's like Succession of the Wight

it's not meant to be funny. Like, Succession's very funny. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, but there's like a weight to it. It's not,

it's not setting out to be a comedy program. It's not frivolous, yeah. It's not silly. It wants you to come away with something else and it will have a joke sprinkled, but it's asking you to. It's never detracting. The comedy's never detracting.

It does want you to walk away and go, that's my favorite comedy. Yeah. It's like, oh, I love that show. So, yeah. So I think it's in that, it's like, way, Yeah, I saw it as people describing as witty.

I don't know, maybe I missed the jokes or in the reform. Yeah. Difficult to find things really funny when you're reading them on a Kindle trying to get your child to sleep. Yeah, this is the one thing. This is the multitasking. I'm sad to, I, it's only possible to read it. I wouldn't have read it had it not been on the Kindle,

but I was sad not to read it physically. Especially a heft like that, it's a dopamine you get when you're closing that and you finished it. Yeah. How did you feel when you finished it? I felt really amazing. It was just before Christmas. Yeah.

And I was like, I got there and I finished. Maybe it was like, yeah. I'm just going to the last line, so I can imagine you reading it. Yeah. And I was like, wow, I did it. I actually did it. I actually read like four pages every day or whatever it was. Very handy to say finale at the end.

You know, the name of the last chapter is finale. Yeah. I was like, oh. Yeah, it felt really good. And I was very satisfied because it's been on my to read list for so long. And that's what I want to say to people, if you've got one that's on your to read list that you feel bad about or you think, oh, I should have read that. Don't, don't berate yourself.

Do a little bit. every day. Oh, the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts. That's what the book is about. It's about small acts. Small ordinary people. Touching each other. But not physically touching because we're religious.

It's about small ordinary people. It's also about how being good is about your acts and not your religion. Yeah. And actually being a good person is nothing to do with what your beliefs are. It's the actions that you take in the world. You think Nietzsche would have loved? I think that would have a beef with a woman having his opinion. And that's what I think, back off each.

But it's a very, and yeah, because it's such a small little book about small ordinary things, that when you finish it and you've read it over a long time, it feels you don't have that like, whoa, you have that like, hmm, thank you, George. Yeah. That was like, yeah, I really would. But you have to leave it somewhere. You have to set a reading routine. So I would be like, either leave it like in the bathrooms, you read it in the bath or like, yeah, bedtime.

Or a book for like bus or something. Commuting, yeah. Yeah. Commuting going, I don't want to be on my phone. Yeah. I think this is a place where you don't want to be on the phone. Yeah. Do you want to read it?

Have I made you want to read it? I do want to read it. I do want to read it. It would have been cruel if you'd said on Monday we're going to do middle March. Can you read it this weekend? Yeah, no. But that's why, because I know lots of people haven't read it. So we specifically said we didn't want you to read it again.

And I think for our listeners as well, we don't want to always be giving you homework. Sometimes maybe. If this is made a book that's on your shelf and you're not going to now give it to the charity shop, they will come a point where you can read it. I'm like really glad I read it. Yeah. And now I can be smug. Yeah. Do you feel smug?

I feel like if you're a reader, as we are, there is like an internal list that you constantly have, right? Don't you have this? Like, oh, I should, I'd like to read that one. Do you remember that David Lodge, the game? So it's a, it's a not drinking game, dinner party game. Yes, about you admit what you haven't read. Yes. So it's the, so, and I think it's such a funny idea. So you can do it with a group of friends. And essentially, you admit the most famous book that you have,

haven't read. But when we played this, you and my husband had to admit so many books that we thought you were screaming at us and you were like, you've never read Hamlet, Ben. He's read, you haven't, you hadn't read Hamlet at one. No, but that's what was so great. That's what so great about it is those things that you've talked of, you can talk about really confidently we've never actually read done down. Yeah, and that's thing. I would have definitely been like, oh yes, Middlemage beforehand, but then had to direct the conversation around to Silas Marla? Yeah. Have you read to Silas Marla? No, you've really been really smaller books. The ones she wrote that were very successful before middlemine. Yeah, I'm really glad. I'm really glad. I'm really.

glad about it and it was just nice to um yeah just to like take your pace for something not rush it through like it's a book no one really cares if you know what i mean like it but i think i think the canon in classic literature is a bit like other people's oscar awards yeah it's like the fun of it is going do i agree and yeah and now in the context of understanding the hugeness of something which actually probably never be able to do you've got another really big brick in the wall yeah that's what i felt like oh i'm really glad i've like yeah as a reader read or read something that people's think is the novel written in English language. And it is lots of people's favourite book.

Yeah, and I can see why. And I can also see why you'd reread it because you'd get something different from it every time. You'd understand more of it every time. You'd be like, oh, right. Yeah. So, yeah. Double thumbs up for Middle March from Carriad.

So lovely. A classic book. And Georgia Elliott will join us next week. Thank you for listening to The Weirdo's Book Club. This month, I will be mostly hoovering the house. My book, Where Did She Go, A Kids' Kids, Picture Book to help them deal with grief is available to buy in paperback now. And you can find out all about the upcoming books we're going to be discussing this series on our

Instagram at Sarah and Carriads Weirdo's Book Club. And you can join us on our Patreon for lots more weird, wonderful backstage stuff or if you just want to support the podcast, that is the best way to do it. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you.